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This film is about
the Achilles heel
of capitalism,
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how human nature drives
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the economy
to crisis after crisis
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time and time again.
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Every generation
thinks it's smarter than its
parents and its grandparents,
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and it never proves
to be the case.
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What happens is a crisis
fades into memory
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and then it becomes history.
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That is the reason we often give
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for why we study history
and why we teach history
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is to not have to repeat
the mistakes of the past.
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00:00:50,751 --> 00:00:54,821
You ever seen the State of
the Union address where the
president comes on and says,
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"Guys, we're fucked."
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These booms and busts
will always be with us.
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It's in human nature
that they would be with us.
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And I've said before,
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
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"No return to boom and bust."
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( all cheering )
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( footsteps )
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The human strategies
we're seeing in real markets
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are just
evolutionarily
really old.
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They're kind of leftover
the strategies from
35 million years ago.
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WILLEM H. BUITER:
It is very hard to, eh,
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understand why economists
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focus on models
in which crises
could not occur.
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They run the economy
based on science fiction models.
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That's why they had no
idea this crisis was coming
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because they ignored
banks, debt, and money.
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( clattering hooves )
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GEORGE MAGNUS:
We always thought
how lucky we were
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that we never actually
had to live through
in the 1929 crash
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and the 1930s
Great Depression,
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because
we are cleverer now
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and we know how to avoid
these kinds of accidents,
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00:02:02,656 --> 00:02:05,456
and actually,
a lot of economists
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00:02:05,526 --> 00:02:08,856
were absolutely adamant that
the worst would not happen
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because we know how
to deal with these things.
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00:02:11,865 --> 00:02:16,235
And, of course,
the truth is, we didn't know
how to deal with them.
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TERRY JONES: In 1928,
President Calvin Coolidge
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gave his State
of the Union address
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in the following terms:
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In the domestic field,
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there is tranquility
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and contentment...
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and the highest record
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of years of prosperity,
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the great wealth created by
our enterprises and industry,
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00:02:38,559 --> 00:02:41,899
and saved by our economy,
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00:02:41,962 --> 00:02:46,232
has had the widest
distribution among
our own people.
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00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:49,170
The country can
regard the present
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00:02:49,237 --> 00:02:50,967
with satisfaction
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and anticipate the future
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with optimism.
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( all applaud )
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( singing )
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TERRY JONES: He didn't
know what we know now,
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that the United States
was about to suffer
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the worst economic
disaster in its then history.
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00:03:23,604 --> 00:03:26,614
Our economy's healthy
and vigorous,
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00:03:26,674 --> 00:03:30,644
and growing faster than other
major industrialized nations.
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00:03:33,347 --> 00:03:36,477
The American people
have turned in an
economic performance
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00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:38,450
that is the envy of the world.
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TERRY JONES: He didn't know
what we know now,
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that the worst crisis ever
to hit the Western economies
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was just around the corner.
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The crisis of 2008
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is often referred to
as the subprime crash.
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In less than 15 years,
there was a huge rise
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in lending mortgages to people
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00:04:02,743 --> 00:04:04,753
who basically
couldn't afford them.
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Ladies and gentlemen,
Harvey Rosen,
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Chairman of
the White House Council
of economic advisers
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speaking in 2007.
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00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:16,020
The main that innovations
in the mortgage market
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00:04:16,089 --> 00:04:18,629
have done over the
past 30 years is to let in
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the excluded,
the young,
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the discriminated against,
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00:04:23,764 --> 00:04:25,934
the people without
a lot of money in the bank
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to use for a down payment.
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( muttering agreement
and affirmation )
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JONES: This reckless
lending to people who
couldn't afford a mortgage
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became known as
subprime lending,
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00:04:38,612 --> 00:04:40,252
but the banks insisted
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they had eliminated risks
by statistical processing.
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00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,590
When you look at how
banks managed risks,
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00:04:48,656 --> 00:04:50,016
particularly before the crisis--
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this is very interesting,
and quite funny actually.
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What they did was
to take risky assets,
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00:04:54,862 --> 00:04:58,272
such as, um,
junk mortgages,
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00:04:58,332 --> 00:04:59,872
slice them into little bits,
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00:04:59,933 --> 00:05:02,903
repackage them
after mixing them
with all the risky bits,
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00:05:02,970 --> 00:05:06,240
and then sell them
on to other banks
and financial institutions.
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00:05:06,306 --> 00:05:08,476
And so these risks became
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00:05:08,542 --> 00:05:10,842
uh, dispersed in
the financial markets,
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and nobody really knew
anymore where the risks were
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or for that matter,
nobody knew exactly
whether the...
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package of
financial products
that he was buying,
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that he was
investing in, was risky,
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whether it was very risky
or not risky at all.
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JONES: They sold these
packages to investors
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as very low-risk products.
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Banking organizations of
all sizes have made
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substantial strides over
the past two decades
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in their ability to
measure and manage risks.
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So, because we could not
observe risks anymore,
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we were telling ourselves,
"There is no risk."
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What's even worse
when you do this,
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risks become
connected with each other.
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You don't know exactly
how the risks are connected,
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but they are.
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In the pre-crisis period,
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we told ourselves a story
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about the bigger banks
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being able to spread their risk
across their balance sheet,
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which would then
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00:06:07,334 --> 00:06:09,544
allow us as regulators
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to enable them to run
with lower safety margins.
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Everybody was
happy and confident
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that the mortgage market
had become more
efficient than ever.
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00:06:18,879 --> 00:06:21,449
And I have said before,
Mr. Deputy Speaker,
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no return to boom and bust.
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Our economy is healthy
and vigorous,
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and growing faster than other
major industrialized nations.
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Everyone was convinced
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00:06:34,194 --> 00:06:36,564
that this time,
it's different.
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ZVI BODIE:
The subprime crisis of 2008
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was essentially
a bubble bursting.
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They lent lots of
money against houses.
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00:06:46,807 --> 00:06:50,777
I've seen them in Gary, Indiana,
in Detroit, Michigan,
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00:06:50,844 --> 00:06:53,884
that you can now buy
for ten grand.
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00:06:53,947 --> 00:06:57,377
But they'd lent u-usually
about a hundred grand,
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00:06:57,451 --> 00:07:01,821
so that poor people who'd
never, ever owned a house
before could own a house.
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00:07:01,889 --> 00:07:03,919
When we take your
income and your wealth,
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00:07:03,991 --> 00:07:06,631
you measure 620
on the FICO scale.
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00:07:06,694 --> 00:07:08,504
620? that's great.
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00:07:08,562 --> 00:07:11,672
No, no, no, no, no.
You see, we financial wizards
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reckon 850 on
the FICO scale is good.
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00:07:15,168 --> 00:07:18,538
And 300 is very, very bad.
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00:07:18,606 --> 00:07:22,576
You see, most people score
about 725 on the FICO scale,
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00:07:22,643 --> 00:07:26,313
and I'm afraid 620
is usually our cut-off point.
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Oh, dear, so, I won't get
my interest on the mortgage
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( laughing )
Not so fast.
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You could still be eligible
for a stated-income
verified assets loan.
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What's that?
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That's where you
state your income and
we verify your wealth.
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Well, I'm worth
one million dollars.
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Oh...
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Can you prove it?
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Not really.
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00:07:48,602 --> 00:07:50,942
Look, we really
want your money.
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Uh-uh, I mean, we really
want you to have this
interest-only mortgage.
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So, we can go down
the stated-income,
stated-assets route.
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What's that?
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You state your income
and assets and we
don't check them.
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Great!
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00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,090
Well, eh, then-then that's
all signed and sealed.
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Believe it or not, this scene
or something like it,
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00:08:14,227 --> 00:08:17,027
must have been played out
numberless times.
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In 2004 to 2005,
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more than a third
of all mortgages
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were no income,
no jobs or assets,
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that were nicknamed
"Ninja Loan."
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Hiyah! Hiyah!
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That's what this was about.
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It was about forcing loans
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onto people who
would never repay them,
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who would end up
getting foreclosed,
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00:08:39,787 --> 00:08:43,387
in order to earn a fee
on the origination
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and another fee when they
were sold to some sucker
who would take the loss.
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00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,600
The whole thing
becomes, eventually,
a bit of a con trick
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because, everybody thought
that asset prices would
continue to go up.
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The unimaginable happened.
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Housing prices
started to fall.
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00:09:01,541 --> 00:09:04,981
That signaled to them that
they could never pay that debt,
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00:09:05,045 --> 00:09:07,405
because they were relying
on the house price to rise
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as we all do in these bubbles.
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00:09:08,949 --> 00:09:12,419
And then, um, like a,
string of dominoes,
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the very risky lenders
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00:09:13,821 --> 00:09:15,761
knocked over
the risky lenders,
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00:09:15,823 --> 00:09:17,793
knocked over
the normal lenders,
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and then they
all fell apart.
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* Ain't got no home *
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* Ain't got no shoes *
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00:09:31,504 --> 00:09:33,814
* Ain't got no money *
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00:09:33,874 --> 00:09:35,714
* Ain't got no class *
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* Ain't got no skirts *
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00:09:37,811 --> 00:09:39,981
* Ain't got no sweater *
188
00:09:40,047 --> 00:09:42,277
* Ain't got no perfume *
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00:09:42,349 --> 00:09:43,419
* Ain't got no bed *
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00:09:43,483 --> 00:09:45,053
* Ain't got no man *
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JONES: The banks were
taking on more and more risk,
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Investing in the
financial economy
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00:09:51,625 --> 00:09:54,795
instead of the real economy.
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00:09:54,862 --> 00:09:57,772
The financial economy,
as it's become,
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00:09:57,831 --> 00:10:00,831
is essentially making
money out of money,
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00:10:00,901 --> 00:10:03,971
instead of investing
in firms and companies
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00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:08,307
and contributing to
the real economy.
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00:10:08,375 --> 00:10:11,775
So what happened to the banks
and the insurance companies
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00:10:11,845 --> 00:10:14,375
that got involved in
the subprime lending?
200
00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:18,487
You can think of the-the
the end of 2007. What happened?
201
00:10:18,551 --> 00:10:22,421
The bank starts looking
a little more carefully
at their balance sheet.
202
00:10:22,489 --> 00:10:25,789
They look at the assets
they got and they say,
203
00:10:25,859 --> 00:10:28,859
"Wow, a lot of those
assets are trash.
204
00:10:28,929 --> 00:10:31,059
"Okay, we know that
these things are bad,
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00:10:31,131 --> 00:10:32,601
"a high percentage of them,
206
00:10:32,666 --> 00:10:35,866
"and, um, some of our assets
207
00:10:35,936 --> 00:10:39,036
"are the I-O-U's
of other banks.
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00:10:39,106 --> 00:10:40,966
I wonder if their balance
sheets are as bad as ours."
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00:10:41,041 --> 00:10:42,641
And they started to think,
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00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:45,650
"They probably are
because we're all doing
the same stuff."
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00:10:45,713 --> 00:10:48,783
And then they say, " You know,
maybe when that loan comes due,
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00:10:48,849 --> 00:10:50,279
"we should call it in,
213
00:10:50,350 --> 00:10:52,050
"say we're not going
to renew it anymore,
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00:10:52,119 --> 00:10:54,019
"because we think, maybe,
215
00:10:54,087 --> 00:10:57,727
you could get in trouble
and we wont get paid."
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00:10:57,791 --> 00:10:59,731
Suddenly, all the banks
started doing this.
217
00:10:59,793 --> 00:11:01,433
And, basically,
218
00:11:01,494 --> 00:11:05,234
that is when the global
credit markets froze up.
219
00:11:05,298 --> 00:11:08,038
Banks wouldn't lend
each other anymore.
220
00:11:08,101 --> 00:11:11,601
And so that turned into
a massive liquidity crisis,
221
00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:13,671
and that is what
set off the whole thing.
222
00:11:13,741 --> 00:11:16,041
So this layering
of debt on debt,
223
00:11:16,109 --> 00:11:18,909
financial institutions owing
other financial institutions,
224
00:11:18,979 --> 00:11:21,479
turns out to be
extremely dangerous.
225
00:11:21,548 --> 00:11:22,978
News you're waking up to:
226
00:11:23,050 --> 00:11:25,090
the American investment bank
Lehman Brothers
227
00:11:25,152 --> 00:11:27,422
has filed
for bankruptcy in New York.
228
00:11:27,487 --> 00:11:29,587
That's happened in
the last few minutes.
229
00:11:29,656 --> 00:11:31,086
It means the Wall Street
institution,
230
00:11:31,158 --> 00:11:33,628
which has been
in business for 150 years
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00:11:33,693 --> 00:11:35,263
and survived
the Great Depression,
232
00:11:35,328 --> 00:11:38,968
is now the most high-profile
casualty of the credit crunch.
233
00:11:39,032 --> 00:11:42,142
JONES: It was not only
Lehman Brothers that went bust.
234
00:11:42,202 --> 00:11:45,312
In the U.S., Citigroup were
rescued by the U.S government
235
00:11:45,372 --> 00:11:48,982
with guarantees to the tune
of 300 billion dollars.
236
00:11:49,042 --> 00:11:54,752
AIG were bailed out for
a 182 billion dollars.
237
00:11:54,815 --> 00:11:57,345
* The best things in life
are free *
238
00:11:57,417 --> 00:12:01,017
* But you can give 'em
to the birds and bees *
239
00:12:07,094 --> 00:12:10,204
Bear Sterns was taken over
by J.P. Morgan
240
00:12:10,263 --> 00:12:12,403
after the U.S. government
secured them
241
00:12:12,465 --> 00:12:15,835
with a 30 billion dollar
guarantee.
242
00:12:15,903 --> 00:12:17,273
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,
243
00:12:17,337 --> 00:12:19,137
government-backed
mortgage lenders
244
00:12:19,206 --> 00:12:21,806
who were involved
in the sub-prime
mortgage lending,
245
00:12:21,875 --> 00:12:25,575
were rescued by
the Federal Housing
Finance Agency.
246
00:12:25,645 --> 00:12:29,375
Merrill Lynch was taken over
by the Bank of America.
247
00:12:29,449 --> 00:12:32,189
In the UK,
the Royal Bank of Scotland
248
00:12:32,252 --> 00:12:34,722
was bailed out
by the UK government
249
00:12:34,788 --> 00:12:37,018
for 20 billion pounds,
250
00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:41,390
HBOS was bailed out
for 13 billion pounds,
251
00:12:41,461 --> 00:12:43,901
and Lloyds
for 4 billion pounds,
252
00:12:43,964 --> 00:12:49,844
on exactly the same day,
October the 13th, 2008.
253
00:12:49,903 --> 00:12:53,373
* Money don't get everything,
it's true *
254
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,510
* But what it don't get,
I can't use *
255
00:12:58,645 --> 00:13:01,205
Sir, another insurance company
is going under.
256
00:13:01,281 --> 00:13:05,351
Now determining most prudent
move for insurance company.
257
00:13:05,418 --> 00:13:07,118
( chicken crowing )
258
00:13:22,202 --> 00:13:23,202
Bailout!
259
00:13:23,270 --> 00:13:24,970
The most prudent move
is a bailout!
260
00:13:25,038 --> 00:13:29,008
I remember sitting, um...
uh, in a room.
261
00:13:29,076 --> 00:13:31,536
Bit like this one,
at the Treasury,
262
00:13:31,611 --> 00:13:33,251
back in 2008,
263
00:13:33,313 --> 00:13:36,353
around the time
of the Lehman crisis.
264
00:13:36,416 --> 00:13:37,946
We sat there.
265
00:13:38,018 --> 00:13:41,318
During the first half hour
of that meeting,
266
00:13:41,388 --> 00:13:43,188
the share price of
267
00:13:43,256 --> 00:13:45,426
one of the biggest banks
in this country
268
00:13:45,492 --> 00:13:48,162
fell by 50 percent.
269
00:13:48,228 --> 00:13:50,358
In the 2nd half hour
of that meeting,
270
00:13:50,430 --> 00:13:52,270
the share price
of that same bank
271
00:13:52,332 --> 00:13:54,402
rose 50 percent.
272
00:13:54,467 --> 00:13:57,567
We knew at that point,
this wasn't Kansas anymore.
273
00:13:57,637 --> 00:14:01,667
I mean, if the 2008 crash
didn't wake people up,
274
00:14:01,741 --> 00:14:03,381
um, I don't know what will.
275
00:14:03,443 --> 00:14:06,013
( yawns )
276
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:09,020
Where do we go from here?
277
00:14:09,082 --> 00:14:12,052
How do we deal
with these financial crisis?
278
00:14:12,119 --> 00:14:14,519
And one of the
most important first steps
279
00:14:14,587 --> 00:14:16,717
is understanding
where we've come from.
280
00:14:16,789 --> 00:14:18,629
Financial crises
281
00:14:18,691 --> 00:14:21,631
aren't some new thing
that we're going into now.
282
00:14:21,694 --> 00:14:23,464
We've had many financial crises.
283
00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:26,470
The 19th century is filled
with financial crises,
284
00:14:26,533 --> 00:14:29,143
and even the 18th and 17th
and 16th century,
285
00:14:29,202 --> 00:14:31,972
and when you start looking
at all these different examples
286
00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:35,939
of economies
and their financial systems
and their crashes,
287
00:14:36,009 --> 00:14:38,049
you start to get
a much better understanding
288
00:14:38,111 --> 00:14:40,881
of what financial crisis
is about.
289
00:14:40,948 --> 00:14:42,378
The seeds that were sown
290
00:14:42,449 --> 00:14:44,819
were the same seeds
that were sown
291
00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:48,194
in all previous crises.
292
00:14:48,255 --> 00:14:52,285
So, if we look to what works
and what doesn't,
293
00:14:52,359 --> 00:14:56,559
no better lessons are there
than those from history.
294
00:15:11,044 --> 00:15:14,854
Tulip Mania started back
in 1562,
295
00:15:14,914 --> 00:15:18,654
when a ship from Constantinople
docked in Antwerp.
296
00:15:18,718 --> 00:15:21,618
Aboard was a cargo of tulips,
297
00:15:21,688 --> 00:15:25,058
the first to be seen in Europe.
298
00:15:25,125 --> 00:15:28,125
* Oh, tulips,
precious tulips *
299
00:15:28,195 --> 00:15:31,095
* I kiss you
with my two lips *
300
00:15:31,164 --> 00:15:34,334
* Make me healthy,
make me wealthy *
301
00:15:34,401 --> 00:15:38,111
* Tulips precious tulips
302
00:15:39,672 --> 00:15:42,512
The tulips proved
to be a sensation
303
00:15:42,575 --> 00:15:45,305
amongst the rich merchants
of Amsterdam,
304
00:15:45,378 --> 00:15:48,648
then embarking
on their golden era.
305
00:15:48,715 --> 00:15:51,175
The merchants
built grand houses
306
00:15:51,251 --> 00:15:53,091
surrounded by flower gardens,
307
00:15:53,153 --> 00:15:56,623
and the star of the show
was the tulip.
308
00:15:58,191 --> 00:16:01,761
Tulips grew in prestige
and popularity,
309
00:16:01,828 --> 00:16:04,258
and prices began to soar.
310
00:16:04,331 --> 00:16:08,371
By 1636, a tulip bulb
could be worth
311
00:16:08,435 --> 00:16:10,965
a new carriage,
two grey horses,
312
00:16:11,038 --> 00:16:13,038
and a complete harness.
313
00:16:13,106 --> 00:16:15,776
Some bulbs were reportedly
changing hands
314
00:16:15,842 --> 00:16:18,082
over ten times a day.
315
00:16:18,145 --> 00:16:20,745
It seemed like everyone
could make money
316
00:16:20,813 --> 00:16:23,053
if only they bought tulips.
317
00:16:23,116 --> 00:16:26,416
A kind of euphoria
gripped everybody.
318
00:16:26,486 --> 00:16:29,886
But, on February the 5th, 1637,
319
00:16:29,956 --> 00:16:31,556
it all came to an end.
320
00:16:31,624 --> 00:16:35,204
At a tulip auction in Haarlem,
in the Netherlands,
321
00:16:35,262 --> 00:16:38,072
only the sellers of tulip
turned up.
322
00:16:38,131 --> 00:16:40,331
There were no buyers.
323
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,700
Harlem was at that time
in the grip of Bubonic plague,
324
00:16:44,771 --> 00:16:49,311
so perhaps that's why
no one wanted to go out
and buy tulips.
325
00:16:49,376 --> 00:16:51,206
But the damage was done.
326
00:16:51,278 --> 00:16:54,178
The bottom fell out
of the tulip market.
327
00:16:54,247 --> 00:16:58,447
Bulbs that had
commanded the price
of 5,000 guilders
328
00:16:58,518 --> 00:17:00,548
sold for fifty.
329
00:17:00,620 --> 00:17:05,130
This is what economists
call a bubble.
330
00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:08,762
Well, a bubble is
a financial episode
331
00:17:08,828 --> 00:17:10,698
in which the price of assets,
332
00:17:10,763 --> 00:17:14,433
whether it's tulips,
or equities, or gold,
333
00:17:14,501 --> 00:17:16,771
basically becomes
completely detached
334
00:17:16,836 --> 00:17:19,236
from any intrinsic value.
335
00:17:19,306 --> 00:17:22,206
Being in a bubble,
is like...
336
00:17:22,275 --> 00:17:27,405
yeah, it's a state
of extreme hope and
excitement and stupidity.
337
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,720
And it can continue
for as long as people believe
338
00:17:30,783 --> 00:17:33,423
that there is something
magical or new
339
00:17:33,486 --> 00:17:36,056
about the valuation today.
340
00:17:36,123 --> 00:17:38,063
In every boom-and-bust cycle,
341
00:17:38,125 --> 00:17:40,825
there is a period
of exceptionalism.
342
00:17:40,893 --> 00:17:42,163
"This time, it's different.
343
00:17:42,229 --> 00:17:43,799
Everything is different."
344
00:17:43,863 --> 00:17:45,773
And, there's always
a cool excuse,
345
00:17:45,832 --> 00:17:49,642
and things like, "Well,
you know, our demographics
are different."
346
00:17:49,702 --> 00:17:53,012
Or, you know, "This time,
interest costs really
are very low."
347
00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,542
Or "inflation
has been solved."
348
00:17:54,607 --> 00:17:57,207
Or, "Oh, there's a boom
in gold mining."
349
00:17:57,277 --> 00:18:00,007
You know, tulips--
tulips were the first ones.
350
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:03,749
"This is the first time
you'll ever be able
to buy these tulips.
351
00:18:03,816 --> 00:18:05,346
You must get in now."
352
00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:07,688
There's always a reason
why you'd want
353
00:18:07,754 --> 00:18:12,334
to suspend your rational
faculties and buy into this.
354
00:18:12,392 --> 00:18:14,332
Normally, it's because
you look around,
355
00:18:14,394 --> 00:18:16,134
and you see
everybody else doing it.
356
00:18:22,135 --> 00:18:24,795
In 1711,
the British government
357
00:18:24,871 --> 00:18:28,411
was deep in debt,
to the tune of 9 million pounds.
358
00:18:28,475 --> 00:18:30,235
A couple of entrepreneurs
359
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:32,750
named Edward Harley
and John Blunt
360
00:18:32,812 --> 00:18:35,552
devised a scheme
to rescue the government.
361
00:18:36,416 --> 00:18:38,386
Instead of repayment,
362
00:18:38,451 --> 00:18:40,491
anyone to whom
the government owed money
363
00:18:40,553 --> 00:18:42,823
was obliged to accept shares
364
00:18:42,889 --> 00:18:46,389
in a company called
The South Sea Company.
365
00:18:46,459 --> 00:18:48,659
At the same time,
the South Sea Company
366
00:18:48,728 --> 00:18:50,628
was given
the exclusive right
367
00:18:50,697 --> 00:18:53,997
to the monopoly of trade
with South America.
368
00:18:54,066 --> 00:18:56,136
Conveniently overlooked
369
00:18:56,203 --> 00:18:57,573
was the fact that Spain,
370
00:18:57,637 --> 00:18:59,537
with whom England was at war,
371
00:18:59,606 --> 00:19:02,206
controlled all the trade
with South America
372
00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:05,775
and had done so
for 200 years.
373
00:19:05,845 --> 00:19:07,305
But hopes were high,
374
00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:10,420
and the scheme
was a phenomenal success.
375
00:19:11,451 --> 00:19:14,791
In 1713, the war ended.
376
00:19:16,989 --> 00:19:21,029
Spain then allowed Britain
precisely one ship a year
377
00:19:21,093 --> 00:19:23,533
of no more than 500 tons
378
00:19:23,596 --> 00:19:25,966
to trade with South America,
379
00:19:26,032 --> 00:19:27,732
and one quarter
of the proceeds
380
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,870
was to go
to the King of Spain--
381
00:19:29,936 --> 00:19:34,166
not exactly a winning scheme
for a bankrupt country.
382
00:19:36,676 --> 00:19:40,306
And, in 1718, the war
with Spain broke out again,
383
00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:44,650
and the company's assets
inside South America
were seized,
384
00:19:44,717 --> 00:19:47,947
and any prospects
of profit from trade
385
00:19:48,020 --> 00:19:49,860
disappeared overnight.
386
00:19:49,922 --> 00:19:53,362
But, unbelievably,
hopes were still high.
387
00:19:53,426 --> 00:19:55,896
The South Sea Company
talked up the value
388
00:19:55,962 --> 00:19:58,772
of its potential trade
with South America,
389
00:19:58,831 --> 00:20:01,501
aided by politicians
and members of the government,
390
00:20:01,568 --> 00:20:03,498
who were in on the act,
391
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:05,510
and the price of shares rose
392
00:20:05,572 --> 00:20:08,382
from 128 pounds in January
393
00:20:08,441 --> 00:20:11,081
to 330 pounds in March,
394
00:20:11,143 --> 00:20:13,713
890 pounds in early June,
395
00:20:13,780 --> 00:20:17,920
and finally 1000 pounds
in early August.
396
00:20:17,984 --> 00:20:19,724
All good bubbles have to burst,
397
00:20:19,786 --> 00:20:23,656
and the South Sea bubble burst
in a spectacular fashion.
398
00:20:25,392 --> 00:20:27,092
From 1000 pounds in August,
399
00:20:27,159 --> 00:20:30,729
the stock fell to a hundred
by the end of the year.
400
00:20:30,797 --> 00:20:32,767
With the collapse
of the stock price,
401
00:20:32,832 --> 00:20:34,602
thousands of people
were ruined,
402
00:20:34,667 --> 00:20:36,497
including Sir Isaac Newton,
403
00:20:36,569 --> 00:20:38,339
who lost the equivalent
404
00:20:38,405 --> 00:20:40,535
of 2.4 million pounds,
405
00:20:40,607 --> 00:20:43,237
and about which,
his niece reported
406
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:45,450
he never liked
to talk about.
407
00:20:45,512 --> 00:20:49,122
Newton said, "I calculate
the movement of stars,
408
00:20:49,181 --> 00:20:51,781
but not the madness of men."
409
00:20:51,851 --> 00:20:54,821
I hope he included
himself in that.
410
00:20:54,887 --> 00:20:57,687
The South Sea Bubble
is a perfect example
411
00:20:57,757 --> 00:21:00,427
of what is called euphoria.
412
00:21:00,493 --> 00:21:03,703
One of the things
we have to control
413
00:21:03,763 --> 00:21:05,233
is this tendency
414
00:21:05,298 --> 00:21:08,538
for people to go
through these periods,
415
00:21:08,601 --> 00:21:13,041
a sort of mass euphoria
and mass pessimism.
416
00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:16,205
When people become very
optimistic about the future
417
00:21:16,275 --> 00:21:18,345
and they project this optimism
418
00:21:18,411 --> 00:21:19,781
into the prices of assets,
419
00:21:19,846 --> 00:21:21,576
there can be
an asset bubble.
420
00:21:21,648 --> 00:21:23,648
And prices go up,
and when prices go up,
421
00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:26,216
people say, "Oh, seems like
people are optimistic
about the future.
422
00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:28,215
I should be optimistic too."
423
00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:31,417
And so I buy those assets,
and that pushes the price
up a little more.
424
00:21:31,491 --> 00:21:33,431
Prices move
completely out of line
425
00:21:33,493 --> 00:21:34,933
with any sort of reality
426
00:21:34,994 --> 00:21:37,604
or any earnings basis
or, in housing market,
427
00:21:37,664 --> 00:21:39,374
any sort of income basis,
428
00:21:39,432 --> 00:21:41,902
and it becomes
a self-fulfilling bubble.
429
00:21:41,968 --> 00:21:44,798
If you think
you're investing in tulips
430
00:21:44,871 --> 00:21:47,371
because you can always sell
the tulips to somebody else
431
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,110
at a greater price,
432
00:21:50,176 --> 00:21:52,506
you're not investing,
you're speculating.
433
00:21:53,746 --> 00:21:56,316
And there is a difference.
434
00:21:56,383 --> 00:21:59,853
One is... has a real impact
on the economy,
435
00:21:59,919 --> 00:22:01,449
the other is just
436
00:22:01,521 --> 00:22:03,721
people handing
money back and forth,
437
00:22:03,790 --> 00:22:05,990
and hoping,
that after a while,
438
00:22:06,058 --> 00:22:08,998
when the music stops,
they'll be the one
439
00:22:09,061 --> 00:22:11,661
who isn't holding the parcel,
who is holding the money.
440
00:22:11,731 --> 00:22:14,971
And again, that's okay.
Let them do that.
441
00:22:15,034 --> 00:22:18,104
But just don't do it
with your family home
and all your money.
442
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:21,340
When you're in a bubble,
you can't see outside of it,
443
00:22:21,408 --> 00:22:23,338
so there's no way
444
00:22:23,410 --> 00:22:25,710
of actually knowing
or recognizing it
as it's happening.
445
00:22:25,778 --> 00:22:28,418
It looks like success,
it feels like success,
446
00:22:28,481 --> 00:22:29,481
which is even more dangerous.
447
00:22:29,549 --> 00:22:31,449
Bubbles of the past,
448
00:22:31,518 --> 00:22:33,948
you know how they ended.
449
00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:35,920
And, when they ended,
450
00:22:35,988 --> 00:22:37,788
you understood,
where they had ended.
451
00:22:37,857 --> 00:22:39,727
This one hasn't ended yet,
452
00:22:39,792 --> 00:22:42,862
so it's completely different
from your memory of the others.
453
00:22:42,929 --> 00:22:45,899
It's very hard
to remind yourself of that
454
00:22:45,965 --> 00:22:47,565
in the boom times,
455
00:22:47,634 --> 00:22:49,674
because everyone else
is making a lot of money,
456
00:22:49,736 --> 00:22:52,636
and you naturally wanna make
a lot of money with them.
457
00:22:52,705 --> 00:22:55,235
And if you don't,
in fact you're kind of a fool.
458
00:22:55,307 --> 00:23:00,647
It's one of the really
great mysteries of economics
459
00:23:00,713 --> 00:23:02,653
that if everybody
decides it's okay,
460
00:23:02,715 --> 00:23:04,415
it really is okay.
461
00:23:04,484 --> 00:23:06,594
And if everybody decides
it's a disaster,
462
00:23:06,653 --> 00:23:08,093
it really is a disaster.
463
00:23:08,154 --> 00:23:11,694
So, everybody believing it
is a certain way
464
00:23:11,758 --> 00:23:13,228
makes it a certain way.
465
00:23:13,292 --> 00:23:15,962
From the 1950s to the 1970s,
466
00:23:16,028 --> 00:23:17,758
John Kenneth Galbraith
467
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:21,270
was probably the most
famous economist in the world.
468
00:23:21,333 --> 00:23:24,703
Recurrent descent into insanity
469
00:23:24,771 --> 00:23:28,911
is not a wholly attractive
feature of capitalism.
470
00:23:28,975 --> 00:23:32,105
J.K. Galbraith
was vociferous about--
471
00:23:32,178 --> 00:23:34,048
about speculative euphoria,
472
00:23:34,113 --> 00:23:36,623
and about why periods
of speculative euphoria
473
00:23:36,683 --> 00:23:38,853
just keep on happening
over periods of time.
474
00:23:38,918 --> 00:23:40,618
It's very much human behavior,
475
00:23:40,687 --> 00:23:43,957
but also our failure, uh,
to be able to deal with
476
00:23:44,023 --> 00:23:47,063
the worst consequences
of that euphoria.
477
00:23:47,126 --> 00:23:48,926
( train chugging )
478
00:23:57,236 --> 00:24:01,906
* You cannot lose
with the railways *
479
00:24:01,974 --> 00:24:05,144
* They are the coming thing
480
00:24:05,211 --> 00:24:08,921
* So come and invest
in the railways *
481
00:24:08,981 --> 00:24:12,181
* Great fortunes
for all they will bring *
482
00:24:12,251 --> 00:24:13,791
TERRY JONES: In the 1840s,
483
00:24:13,853 --> 00:24:17,423
railways were promoted
as foolproof investments.
484
00:24:17,490 --> 00:24:20,930
Shares in them could be bought
for a 10 percent deposit.
485
00:24:20,993 --> 00:24:24,103
The snag was that the railway
company reserved the right
486
00:24:24,163 --> 00:24:28,103
to call in the remainder
at any time.
487
00:24:28,167 --> 00:24:31,037
Thousands of investors
on modest incomes
488
00:24:31,103 --> 00:24:33,113
brought large numbers
of shares
489
00:24:33,172 --> 00:24:36,482
while being only able
to afford the deposit.
490
00:24:36,543 --> 00:24:40,953
Families put their
entire savings into
prospective companies
491
00:24:41,013 --> 00:24:43,853
and lost everything
when the bubble burst,
492
00:24:43,916 --> 00:24:49,016
without knowing they took
ten times more risk
than was reasonable,
493
00:24:49,088 --> 00:24:52,558
and nobody prevented them
from doing so.
494
00:24:54,761 --> 00:24:58,101
The disreputable history
of financial euphoria
495
00:24:58,164 --> 00:25:00,604
goes on and on.
496
00:25:17,984 --> 00:25:20,694
TERRY JONES: The '20s was
an age of prosperity,
497
00:25:20,753 --> 00:25:23,593
but the wealth
wasn't sharedevenly
498
00:25:23,656 --> 00:25:25,256
throughout
the population.
499
00:25:25,324 --> 00:25:29,134
In 1929, the top five percent
of the population
500
00:25:29,195 --> 00:25:31,755
received approximately
one third
501
00:25:31,831 --> 00:25:35,131
of all personal income.
502
00:25:35,201 --> 00:25:37,671
Now the richest
five percent of humans
503
00:25:37,737 --> 00:25:39,507
can't eat
more than the rest of us,
504
00:25:39,572 --> 00:25:43,782
so they are compelled to spend
their money on luxury items
505
00:25:43,843 --> 00:25:46,613
such as property
or invest in stocks,
506
00:25:46,679 --> 00:25:49,249
thereby hoping
to increase their wealth.
507
00:25:49,315 --> 00:25:52,145
Not only the wealthy,
but middle class Americans
508
00:25:52,218 --> 00:25:56,458
were displaying what
John Kenneth Galbraith
described as...
509
00:25:56,522 --> 00:25:59,662
an inordinate desire
to get rich quickly
510
00:25:59,726 --> 00:26:03,026
with a minimum
of physical effort.
511
00:26:03,095 --> 00:26:06,095
TERRY JONES:
The Stock Exchange
in New York boomed.
512
00:26:06,165 --> 00:26:10,865
In May 1928,
the volume of shares
reached 5 million,
513
00:26:10,937 --> 00:26:12,937
an all-time record.
514
00:26:14,106 --> 00:26:16,906
The trouble was that
many investors
515
00:26:16,976 --> 00:26:18,976
weren't using their own money.
516
00:26:19,045 --> 00:26:21,975
They were borrowing
money to buy stocks.
517
00:26:22,048 --> 00:26:26,318
This is known in the financial
world as "buying on margin."
518
00:26:26,385 --> 00:26:28,655
TERRY JONES: Say you have
two hundred dollars
519
00:26:28,721 --> 00:26:30,161
and you borrow
eight hundred more
520
00:26:30,222 --> 00:26:33,392
to invest
a thousand dollars in stocks.
521
00:26:33,459 --> 00:26:36,499
If the price of stocks
goes up 30 percent,
522
00:26:36,562 --> 00:26:39,672
you make a 150 percent profit.
523
00:26:39,732 --> 00:26:42,232
After you repay the
eight hundred dollars,
524
00:26:42,301 --> 00:26:45,971
you now have five hundred
dollars for yourself.
525
00:26:46,038 --> 00:26:49,108
But if the price of stocks
goes down 30 percent,
526
00:26:49,175 --> 00:26:52,905
your stocks end up being
worth only 700 dollars,
527
00:26:52,979 --> 00:26:55,979
but you still need
to repay the 800 dollars.
528
00:26:56,048 --> 00:26:58,888
You now owe the bank
a hundred dollars.
529
00:26:58,951 --> 00:27:01,521
The problem is that borrowing
money to buy stocks,
530
00:27:01,587 --> 00:27:03,487
"buying on margin,"
531
00:27:03,555 --> 00:27:08,185
although it amplifies
the gains, it also
amplifies the losses.
532
00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:12,630
You can end up owing
money to the bank without
having a penny left.
533
00:27:12,699 --> 00:27:15,229
TERRY JONES:
By the end of 1928,
534
00:27:15,301 --> 00:27:18,541
folk were swarming
to buy stocks on margin.
535
00:27:18,604 --> 00:27:22,544
In other words, speculation
had taken a hold on people
536
00:27:22,608 --> 00:27:24,338
like never before.
537
00:27:24,410 --> 00:27:28,350
Never before or since
have so many become
538
00:27:28,414 --> 00:27:33,924
so wondrously, so effortlessly,
and so quickly rich.
539
00:27:33,986 --> 00:27:36,016
You might say
what is the difference
540
00:27:36,088 --> 00:27:38,758
between speculation
and gambling?
541
00:27:38,825 --> 00:27:41,325
Well, uh, a Journalist,
Will Payne,
542
00:27:41,393 --> 00:27:45,003
explains in this edition
of World's Work.
543
00:27:45,064 --> 00:27:47,474
A gambler only wins
because somebody
else loses.
544
00:27:47,533 --> 00:27:50,073
When you invest
in stocks and shares,
everybody wins.
545
00:27:50,136 --> 00:27:53,206
One investor buys shares
in General Motors
at a hundred dollars.
546
00:27:53,272 --> 00:27:55,312
He then sells it to another
for 150 dollars,
547
00:27:55,374 --> 00:27:57,414
who sells it to
a third for 200 dollars.
548
00:27:57,476 --> 00:28:00,206
Everybody makes money!
549
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:01,979
TERRY JONES:
It's like conjuring,
550
00:28:02,048 --> 00:28:04,818
continually pulling
rabbits out of hats.
551
00:28:04,884 --> 00:28:08,794
And like conjuring,
it's an illusion.
552
00:28:08,855 --> 00:28:14,725
What Will Payne forgot
is that the stock prices
could also go down.
553
00:28:16,462 --> 00:28:19,202
But as long as the price
of stocks is increasing,
554
00:28:19,265 --> 00:28:21,465
everybody is happy
to run with it.
555
00:28:21,533 --> 00:28:25,143
The illusion takes hold
of formerly rational people.
556
00:28:25,204 --> 00:28:27,014
TERRY JONES:
Such as the Chairman
557
00:28:27,073 --> 00:28:30,283
of the Democratic National
Committee, John J. Raskob,
558
00:28:30,342 --> 00:28:34,482
who wrote an article entitled
"Everybody ought to be rich."
559
00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:37,176
RASKOB: Anyone who saves
15 dollars a month,
560
00:28:37,249 --> 00:28:39,619
invested it in sound
common stocks,
561
00:28:39,685 --> 00:28:41,515
and spent no dividends,
562
00:28:41,587 --> 00:28:45,017
would be worth some
80,000 dollars after 20 years.
563
00:28:45,091 --> 00:28:48,731
TERRY JONES:
Raskob wasn't aiming his
scheme at the middle classes,
564
00:28:48,795 --> 00:28:50,995
but at the
ordinary working man.
565
00:28:51,063 --> 00:28:56,803
The press was unanimous
in its praise of Raskob's
Debt Speculation Machine,
566
00:28:56,869 --> 00:28:58,539
a practical utopia,
567
00:28:58,604 --> 00:29:02,314
the greatest vision of
Wall Street's greatest mind.
568
00:29:02,374 --> 00:29:05,144
But not everyone was singing
from the same hymn sheet.
569
00:29:05,211 --> 00:29:08,781
Roger Babson, an entrepreneur
and business theorist,
570
00:29:08,848 --> 00:29:13,988
started to warn
about a market crash
as early as 1926.
571
00:29:14,053 --> 00:29:16,323
BABSON: Sooner or later
a crash is coming.
572
00:29:16,388 --> 00:29:19,458
Factories will shut down,
men will be thrown out of work.
573
00:29:19,525 --> 00:29:22,755
The result will be
a serious depression.
574
00:29:24,430 --> 00:29:27,700
TERRY JONES : Paul Warburg was
a banker and an early advocate
575
00:29:27,766 --> 00:29:29,666
of the U.S. Federal
reserve system.
576
00:29:29,735 --> 00:29:32,495
PAUL WARBURG:
If the present orgy
of unrestrained speculation
577
00:29:32,571 --> 00:29:34,941
is not brought to a halt,
578
00:29:35,007 --> 00:29:38,007
there will ultimately
be a general depression
579
00:29:38,077 --> 00:29:39,847
involving the entire country.
580
00:29:39,912 --> 00:29:42,552
Ah, Warburg's obsolete!
581
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:46,554
Yeah, he's sandbagging
American prosperity.
582
00:29:46,618 --> 00:29:49,858
TERRY JONES:
Wall Street roundly
denounced Babson and Warburg.
583
00:29:49,922 --> 00:29:53,292
The consensus of judgment of
the millions whose evaluations
584
00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:56,029
on that admirable market,
the Stock Exchange,
585
00:29:56,095 --> 00:29:58,795
is that stocks are
not at present overvalued.
586
00:29:58,865 --> 00:30:02,595
The economic condition
of the world seems on the verge
of a great forward movement.
587
00:30:02,668 --> 00:30:07,368
Stock prices have
reached what looks like
a permanently high plateau.
588
00:30:07,439 --> 00:30:11,139
Where is that group of men
with the all-embracing wisdom
589
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:16,050
which will entitle them
to veto the judgment of
this intelligent multitude?
590
00:30:17,683 --> 00:30:21,123
This advert appeared
in the Saturday Evening Post
591
00:30:21,187 --> 00:30:25,487
a few weeks before
the meltdown of 1929.
592
00:30:25,557 --> 00:30:29,527
MAN: "In 1719, there
was practically no way
of finding out the facts.
593
00:30:29,595 --> 00:30:33,365
"How different the position
of the investor in 1929!
594
00:30:33,432 --> 00:30:39,942
For now, every investor has
at his disposal, facilities
for obtaining the facts."
595
00:30:40,006 --> 00:30:42,976
24 October is
the first of the days
596
00:30:43,042 --> 00:30:47,312
which history identifies
with the panic of 1929.
597
00:30:47,379 --> 00:30:51,119
That day, almost
13 million shares changed hands,
598
00:30:51,183 --> 00:30:56,723
many of them had prices which
shattered the dreams and hopes
of those who owned them.
599
00:30:56,788 --> 00:31:02,328
By 11:30, the market
had surrendered to blind,
relentless fear.
600
00:31:02,394 --> 00:31:07,474
Thousand of speculators
who previously had only
seen the market rising
601
00:31:07,533 --> 00:31:11,773
now discovered the problem
with buying on margin,
602
00:31:11,837 --> 00:31:16,637
as brokers sent telegrams
demanding huge amounts of cash.
603
00:31:16,708 --> 00:31:18,708
VINTAGE NARRATOR:
This was the case in 1929
604
00:31:18,777 --> 00:31:20,747
when the overinflated
American economy,
605
00:31:20,812 --> 00:31:24,082
and the stock market
which fueled it, crashed.
606
00:31:24,150 --> 00:31:27,820
By the end of the year,
banks all over the country
were closing their doors
607
00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:32,086
as frightened people clamored
to reclaim their savings.
608
00:31:32,158 --> 00:31:35,688
To many, many watchers,
it meant that their dream--
609
00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:38,431
in fact, their brief reality
of opulence--
610
00:31:38,497 --> 00:31:41,967
had gone glimmering
together with home,
611
00:31:42,034 --> 00:31:45,974
car, furs,
jewelry and reputation.
612
00:31:50,776 --> 00:31:53,776
( footsteps )
613
00:31:53,845 --> 00:31:57,715
GALBRAITH: Tuesday, 29, October,
was the most devastating day
614
00:31:57,783 --> 00:32:00,093
in the history of the
New York Stock Market.
615
00:32:03,789 --> 00:32:05,589
( paper rustling )
616
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,060
TERRY JONES:
The 1929 Wall Street crash
617
00:32:11,130 --> 00:32:14,170
was a deep
and prolonged crisis,
618
00:32:14,233 --> 00:32:17,973
different from some of
the previous panics in history.
619
00:32:18,037 --> 00:32:21,367
It combined euphoria
with massive borrowing.
620
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,440
And speculation combined
with borrowed money
621
00:32:25,511 --> 00:32:30,181
is the most toxic
combination in capitalism.
622
00:32:30,249 --> 00:32:33,319
* Yeah, yeah, I need
the crystale dropping popping *
623
00:32:33,385 --> 00:32:35,985
* I need diamonds
rocking rocking *
624
00:32:36,055 --> 00:32:37,915
* I need that money money
625
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:39,730
* I need that money, money
626
00:32:39,791 --> 00:32:41,091
* I need that money, money
627
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,890
We came out of
the Great Depression
628
00:32:42,961 --> 00:32:45,431
with hardly any
private sector debt.
629
00:32:45,497 --> 00:32:48,097
Households and firms
were not very indebted,
630
00:32:48,167 --> 00:32:50,197
partly because
they went bankrupt,
631
00:32:50,269 --> 00:32:52,069
partly because
they paid down debt
632
00:32:52,138 --> 00:32:55,508
and for generations Americans
were afraid to get into debt.
633
00:32:55,574 --> 00:32:58,014
Corporations were
afraid to get into debt.
634
00:32:58,077 --> 00:33:03,317
Okay, but gradually
over time because the economy
performed fairy well,
635
00:33:03,382 --> 00:33:06,722
gradually the memories
of the Great Depression faded
636
00:33:06,785 --> 00:33:10,055
and the new generations
became more willing to borrow,
637
00:33:10,122 --> 00:33:11,762
both households and firms,
638
00:33:11,823 --> 00:33:13,733
and these debt ratios
started to climb.
639
00:33:13,792 --> 00:33:18,902
In United States if you
look at the long sweep
of, uh, history,
640
00:33:18,964 --> 00:33:22,974
you'd discover that there
have been two great peaks
of private debt
641
00:33:23,035 --> 00:33:24,635
as a share of income.
642
00:33:24,703 --> 00:33:29,143
One of them occurred in 1929,
the other one occurred in 2008.
643
00:33:29,208 --> 00:33:33,678
The road to financial crisis--
often at least--
644
00:33:33,745 --> 00:33:37,315
begins with private sector
getting careless about debt.
645
00:33:37,383 --> 00:33:39,593
Debts is all about debts, uh...
646
00:33:39,651 --> 00:33:43,091
people took on large amounts
of debt hoping that sort of
647
00:33:43,155 --> 00:33:47,225
wonderful things would
happen in the future that would
allow them to repay them.
648
00:33:47,293 --> 00:33:51,763
Nothing is ever learned
for long. We forget.
649
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:55,500
People who learned that lessons,
who lived those lessons, died.
650
00:33:55,567 --> 00:33:59,607
And their children viewed
the Great Depression as,
651
00:33:59,671 --> 00:34:01,411
as a historical episode.
652
00:34:01,473 --> 00:34:04,313
But why does it happen
time after time
653
00:34:04,376 --> 00:34:06,546
throughout the centuries?
654
00:34:17,423 --> 00:34:22,363
TERRY JONES:
In the 1960s, '70s, and '80s,
the economist Hyman Minsky
655
00:34:22,428 --> 00:34:27,128
proposed the financial
instability hypothesis.
656
00:34:28,267 --> 00:34:30,797
-Hi, Dad.
-Oh, hello, son.
657
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:32,669
-Sit down.
-Sure.
658
00:34:32,738 --> 00:34:35,468
-Now, listen up, Alan.
-I'm all ears, Dad.
659
00:34:35,541 --> 00:34:39,151
The essence of the financial
instability hypothesis
660
00:34:39,211 --> 00:34:41,251
is that financial traumas--
661
00:34:41,313 --> 00:34:42,983
You mean crashes and such?
662
00:34:43,048 --> 00:34:49,118
Exactly. Occur as
a normal function in
a capitalist economy.
663
00:34:49,188 --> 00:34:52,158
This does not mean
the economy is always
664
00:34:52,224 --> 00:34:53,964
tottering on
the brink of disaster.
665
00:34:54,025 --> 00:34:55,955
I should hope not.
What kind of sys--
666
00:34:56,027 --> 00:34:57,757
Son, be serious.
667
00:34:57,829 --> 00:35:00,129
The normal functioning
of an economy
668
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:02,599
with a robust
financial situation
669
00:35:02,668 --> 00:35:06,038
is both tranquil
and on the whole successful.
670
00:35:06,104 --> 00:35:10,614
But tranquility
and success are not
self-sustaining states.
671
00:35:10,676 --> 00:35:12,806
You mean stability
leads to more optimism
672
00:35:12,878 --> 00:35:15,778
and therefore more borrowing
in stocks and houses.
673
00:35:15,847 --> 00:35:18,877
Uh-huh. And this leads
to a transformation
over time
674
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:21,850
of an initially robust
financial structure
675
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,320
into a fragile structure.
676
00:35:23,389 --> 00:35:26,059
Wait, let me
get this straight.
677
00:35:26,124 --> 00:35:27,594
After a deep depression,
678
00:35:27,659 --> 00:35:30,999
governments impose regulations
on the financial world.
679
00:35:31,062 --> 00:35:33,002
There follows
a period of stability,
680
00:35:33,064 --> 00:35:34,634
but the problem
with this stability
681
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:36,670
is that it breathes
overconfidence.
682
00:35:36,735 --> 00:35:39,935
Overconfidence leads
to financial euphoria,
683
00:35:40,005 --> 00:35:44,105
during which time
the politicians relax
the regulations.
684
00:35:44,176 --> 00:35:46,546
This then leads
to excessive borrowing,
685
00:35:46,612 --> 00:35:51,282
and excessive borrowing
and euphoric bubbles
cause instability.
686
00:35:51,350 --> 00:35:54,520
By Jove,
I think my boy's got it.
687
00:35:54,586 --> 00:35:56,686
Well, I've been hearing
about it at the dinner table
688
00:35:56,755 --> 00:35:58,215
since I was six.
689
00:35:59,958 --> 00:36:02,928
Hyman Minsky
used to say, uh,
690
00:36:02,994 --> 00:36:04,604
stability is destabilizing.
691
00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:08,273
It causes people
to get overconfident,
692
00:36:08,334 --> 00:36:10,404
it causes people to forget
693
00:36:10,469 --> 00:36:12,669
about the underlying
nature of the system,
694
00:36:12,738 --> 00:36:15,508
that it's
inherently unstable,
inherently unstable.
695
00:36:15,574 --> 00:36:17,614
But it's
a powerful hypothesis.
696
00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:20,976
And the hypothesis
is actually, basically that,
697
00:36:21,046 --> 00:36:22,946
there are long cycles in which
698
00:36:23,014 --> 00:36:25,824
people forget about
the dangers of debt
699
00:36:25,884 --> 00:36:28,524
forget about
the dangers of being
a highly leveraged.
700
00:36:28,587 --> 00:36:31,757
That goes both for
borrowers, for lenders,
701
00:36:31,823 --> 00:36:33,433
for government regulators,
everybody,
702
00:36:33,492 --> 00:36:35,862
And the last financial
crisis recedes
703
00:36:35,927 --> 00:36:38,297
into the fog of memory,
704
00:36:38,364 --> 00:36:39,804
and that sets you up
for the next one.
705
00:36:39,865 --> 00:36:42,665
He predicted that financially
complex capitalism
706
00:36:42,734 --> 00:36:45,904
creates crashes, creates
massive booms and busts,
707
00:36:45,971 --> 00:36:50,011
that can on some occasions
reach the scale of 1929.
708
00:36:50,075 --> 00:36:53,005
So, it, 1929,
can happen again.
709
00:36:53,078 --> 00:36:54,708
That's "Minksy-anism."
710
00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:56,280
( piano plays )
711
00:37:01,787 --> 00:37:05,217
Hyman Minsky says
a bubble's in three stages.
712
00:37:05,291 --> 00:37:09,531
The hedge participants
are first in line.
713
00:37:09,595 --> 00:37:11,395
* What they save
or make or get *
714
00:37:11,463 --> 00:37:13,063
* Pays the interest
on their debt *
715
00:37:13,131 --> 00:37:16,971
* The economy is
looking pretty fine *
716
00:37:17,035 --> 00:37:20,505
* The second stage involves
some speculation *
717
00:37:20,572 --> 00:37:24,282
* Speculators borrow cash
to buy more shares *
718
00:37:24,343 --> 00:37:26,353
* And as long as
the market rises *
719
00:37:26,412 --> 00:37:28,482
* There are no
nasty surprises *
720
00:37:28,547 --> 00:37:31,547
* But when it falls
It take them unawares *
721
00:37:31,617 --> 00:37:35,017
* Things have gotten
really quite unstable *
722
00:37:35,086 --> 00:37:39,356
* This is where the
dangerous stage begins *
723
00:37:39,425 --> 00:37:40,825
* People borrow more
724
00:37:40,892 --> 00:37:45,132
* To pay their interest
as before *
725
00:37:45,196 --> 00:37:49,296
* And in the end it's just
the bank that wins *
726
00:37:49,368 --> 00:37:52,038
But he was not himself,
uh, a banker.
727
00:37:52,103 --> 00:37:55,243
Okay, he was not himself,
so he had a bigger picture.
728
00:37:55,307 --> 00:37:56,807
He was able to
step back from this
729
00:37:56,875 --> 00:37:59,675
and understand
the system as a whole.
730
00:37:59,745 --> 00:38:02,345
For someone to write about
financial instability
731
00:38:02,414 --> 00:38:05,024
in the late 1950's
as he was doing,
732
00:38:05,083 --> 00:38:08,393
you know, this was a period
that at least on the surface
733
00:38:08,454 --> 00:38:12,724
was the most
financially stable period
United States had ever had,
734
00:38:12,791 --> 00:38:15,461
and so it didn't seem like
735
00:38:15,527 --> 00:38:18,927
what he was saying
was relevant,
736
00:38:18,997 --> 00:38:21,427
uh, to the kind of
economy we'd developed.
737
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:23,800
JOHN CASSIDY: And, all the guys
in Harvard and MIT
738
00:38:23,869 --> 00:38:26,739
and Chicago and all
the other universities
739
00:38:26,805 --> 00:38:29,505
who said, look,
the financial system
is perfectly stable,
740
00:38:29,575 --> 00:38:32,105
what are you
talking about, Hyman?
741
00:38:32,177 --> 00:38:34,247
So, he was discredited,
really,
742
00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:35,952
inside the profession.
743
00:38:36,014 --> 00:38:40,424
And then suddenly, 2008,
everything goes to hell,
744
00:38:40,486 --> 00:38:42,916
the financial system
has basically blown up
the world,
745
00:38:42,988 --> 00:38:44,318
he's the man who warned
746
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:46,590
that this could happen
25 years earlier,
747
00:38:46,658 --> 00:38:49,258
so everybody suddenly
becomes a Minskyite.
748
00:38:49,327 --> 00:38:51,257
Anyone who read that stuff
749
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:53,699
could've seen
the crisis coming.
750
00:38:53,765 --> 00:38:55,395
So, the Queen asked,
you know,
751
00:38:55,467 --> 00:38:56,837
"Why didn't you guys
see it coming?"
752
00:38:56,902 --> 00:38:58,742
The answer is
they didn't read Minsky.
753
00:38:58,804 --> 00:39:02,914
If they had read Minsky,
they absolutely would
have seen it coming.
754
00:39:02,974 --> 00:39:04,314
It was really clear.
755
00:39:04,376 --> 00:39:06,376
You know, this is
what a boom looks like.
756
00:39:06,445 --> 00:39:08,975
This is in a euphoric...
system.
757
00:39:09,047 --> 00:39:12,277
This is what these
asset booms look like.
758
00:39:12,350 --> 00:39:14,250
Minsky was absolutely right.
759
00:39:14,319 --> 00:39:15,619
He was dead on.
760
00:39:15,687 --> 00:39:17,657
Which rather
begs the question,
761
00:39:17,723 --> 00:39:19,323
how is it we forgot
762
00:39:19,391 --> 00:39:20,991
about not just his work
763
00:39:21,059 --> 00:39:22,629
but others' work,
764
00:39:22,694 --> 00:39:25,804
in the period
prior to the crises.
765
00:39:25,864 --> 00:39:28,304
I don't just mean the three
or four years,
766
00:39:28,366 --> 00:39:30,936
I mean the three
or four decades
767
00:39:31,002 --> 00:39:33,542
when economics
768
00:39:33,605 --> 00:39:35,965
pursued a path
769
00:39:36,041 --> 00:39:38,711
that ruled out
Minsky-type dynamics
770
00:39:38,777 --> 00:39:40,107
for what was going wrong.
771
00:39:40,178 --> 00:39:44,018
Like many other people in
my economic profession,
772
00:39:44,082 --> 00:39:46,252
we probably didn't even
know who he was.
773
00:39:46,317 --> 00:39:48,417
Well, Minsky
was inconvenient.
774
00:39:48,487 --> 00:39:52,687
He operated always
on the margins of the...
775
00:39:52,758 --> 00:39:55,288
hierarchy of the
economics profession.
776
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:56,430
Uh...
777
00:39:56,495 --> 00:39:59,225
and that made him...
778
00:39:59,297 --> 00:40:01,967
relatively
easy to disregard.
779
00:40:02,033 --> 00:40:04,573
It's a paradox, actually,
with my father,
780
00:40:04,636 --> 00:40:06,066
as to why he was ignored,
781
00:40:06,137 --> 00:40:09,267
because the very, perhaps,
reasons he was ignored,
782
00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:12,510
were the very reasons he
eventually became so celebrated.
783
00:40:12,578 --> 00:40:17,148
Hy Minsky was
a remarkably warm individual.
784
00:40:17,215 --> 00:40:20,145
And, I don't know
how many economists
you've ever met, okay?
785
00:40:20,218 --> 00:40:22,018
But that's not
particularly a trait
786
00:40:22,087 --> 00:40:24,417
that economists
are well known for.
787
00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:26,890
In university lectures,
788
00:40:26,958 --> 00:40:30,058
when outside professors
were brought in,
789
00:40:30,128 --> 00:40:31,358
Minsky would
790
00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:32,829
appear to be either asleep
791
00:40:32,898 --> 00:40:34,928
or reading the newspaper.
792
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,270
But, as soon as
the Q-and-A time came,
793
00:40:38,336 --> 00:40:41,406
it was always obvious
he was the most brilliant
person in the room,
794
00:40:41,473 --> 00:40:44,083
who actually knew
what had been going on,
795
00:40:44,142 --> 00:40:47,452
and, um,
knew what was wrong with it.
796
00:40:47,513 --> 00:40:50,453
Minsky was a brilliant man.
797
00:40:50,516 --> 00:40:53,516
I only, eh... went
to a few of his lectures
798
00:40:53,585 --> 00:40:55,215
at Edinburgh and Cambridge,
799
00:40:55,286 --> 00:40:57,516
but he was very captivating.
800
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:59,859
Even Minsky predicts that
801
00:40:59,925 --> 00:41:02,055
his warnings will
again go unheeded
802
00:41:02,127 --> 00:41:03,997
and he will be forgotten.
803
00:41:04,062 --> 00:41:06,732
So it seems like now is the time
when he's being remembered,
804
00:41:06,798 --> 00:41:09,068
and, hopefully maybe
he's wrong,
805
00:41:09,134 --> 00:41:11,074
we won't forget
what he is saying.
806
00:41:11,136 --> 00:41:14,406
One of the ironies about
the 2008 crisis is that, um,
807
00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:16,242
Minsky's books
were out of print.
808
00:41:16,307 --> 00:41:18,807
His last book,
Stabilizing An
Unstable Economy,
809
00:41:18,877 --> 00:41:19,947
as the crash was happening,
810
00:41:20,011 --> 00:41:21,851
and as asset prices
were falling,
811
00:41:21,913 --> 00:41:24,783
uh, the price of
his book was being bid
up and up and up,
812
00:41:24,850 --> 00:41:26,520
because everyone
wanted to read
813
00:41:26,585 --> 00:41:27,745
his book
about the, uh,
814
00:41:27,819 --> 00:41:29,819
about the crises
that was happening.
815
00:41:29,888 --> 00:41:33,058
Stability leads
to instability.
816
00:41:33,124 --> 00:41:34,794
Euphoria makes us blind.
817
00:41:34,860 --> 00:41:36,800
And we take
irresponsible risks
818
00:41:36,862 --> 00:41:38,932
that eventually
lead to disaster.
819
00:41:38,997 --> 00:41:41,397
So stable
and booming markets
820
00:41:41,466 --> 00:41:44,396
make us blind to
the increasing risks.
821
00:41:44,469 --> 00:41:46,869
But can we measure
this blindness?
822
00:41:46,938 --> 00:41:48,008
Well, yes.
823
00:41:48,073 --> 00:41:50,743
There is an index
based on the price
824
00:41:50,809 --> 00:41:52,539
people are willing to pay
825
00:41:52,611 --> 00:41:55,011
for protection
against the market crash.
826
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,650
This is the market traded
price of risk.
827
00:41:59,718 --> 00:42:01,218
And what is interesting
828
00:42:01,286 --> 00:42:03,116
is that this price of risk
829
00:42:03,188 --> 00:42:04,558
actually declines
830
00:42:04,623 --> 00:42:06,163
to very low levels
831
00:42:06,224 --> 00:42:08,434
during periods
when stock markets
832
00:42:08,493 --> 00:42:11,733
go sky high
and instability grows.
833
00:42:13,732 --> 00:42:18,272
So our perception
of risk runs contrary
to the actual risk.
834
00:42:18,336 --> 00:42:20,806
In the crash of 2008,
835
00:42:20,872 --> 00:42:26,112
the price of risk was at
its lowest level ever.
836
00:42:26,177 --> 00:42:28,747
You're not allowed
to teach that in universities.
837
00:42:28,814 --> 00:42:31,054
You can, but you won't
get a chair of economics
838
00:42:31,116 --> 00:42:33,746
at a major, prestigious,
global university.
839
00:42:33,819 --> 00:42:37,059
Only the economics
that says capitalism's stable
840
00:42:37,122 --> 00:42:40,592
can be thought
at these universities.
841
00:42:47,933 --> 00:42:50,203
The conventional
economic model
842
00:42:50,268 --> 00:42:52,468
which is used
to run the economy
843
00:42:52,537 --> 00:42:55,067
is known as the free market,
844
00:42:55,140 --> 00:42:58,610
or neoclassical
economic theory,
845
00:42:58,677 --> 00:43:00,347
and it is based on the idea
846
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:03,621
that we are all rational
when it comes to money,
847
00:43:03,682 --> 00:43:09,152
that the economy
will always find itself
in an equilibrium,
848
00:43:09,220 --> 00:43:12,620
and the bubbles
simply can't happen.
849
00:43:17,295 --> 00:43:19,425
Neoclassical economics
is this wonderful thing.
850
00:43:19,497 --> 00:43:20,727
It's useful, actually.
851
00:43:20,799 --> 00:43:22,329
I use it myself
all the time.
852
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,670
It says, let's posit a world
of perfectly rational people
853
00:43:26,738 --> 00:43:28,908
operating in perfectly
competitive markets
854
00:43:28,974 --> 00:43:30,744
and see how they interact,
855
00:43:30,809 --> 00:43:32,909
and see what kind of,
you know, properties.
856
00:43:32,978 --> 00:43:35,648
And, it turns out that
if the world really
was like that,
857
00:43:35,714 --> 00:43:37,154
there would be all kinds
of nice things.
858
00:43:38,283 --> 00:43:39,893
So economists, uh,
859
00:43:40,852 --> 00:43:42,392
think about the world
860
00:43:42,453 --> 00:43:44,393
using, uh, models.
861
00:43:44,455 --> 00:43:46,185
And what does that mean?
862
00:43:46,257 --> 00:43:49,027
Okay, that's
a simplified version
of the world,
863
00:43:49,094 --> 00:43:55,034
um, taking out one or two or
maybe three essential features
864
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:56,530
of the world
865
00:43:56,601 --> 00:43:59,601
and acting as if those are
the only features of the world,
866
00:43:59,671 --> 00:44:01,341
and, and building--
867
00:44:01,406 --> 00:44:05,606
building out the
consequences of those
three kind of features.
868
00:44:05,677 --> 00:44:07,177
Models are just stories.
869
00:44:07,245 --> 00:44:09,045
You know, they say,
if you do this,
870
00:44:09,114 --> 00:44:11,054
then that will happen.
That's all they are.
871
00:44:11,116 --> 00:44:13,746
If you choose the three
most essential features,
872
00:44:13,819 --> 00:44:15,089
then you have a good model.
873
00:44:15,153 --> 00:44:16,793
If you choose three features
874
00:44:16,855 --> 00:44:18,485
that are not very essential,
875
00:44:18,556 --> 00:44:20,156
then you have a model
876
00:44:20,225 --> 00:44:22,125
that's not really gonna
help you with your problem.
877
00:44:22,193 --> 00:44:24,933
It's a useful-- it's
an intuition pump, right?
878
00:44:24,996 --> 00:44:27,496
It helps you think about
why markets sometimes
work really well,
879
00:44:27,565 --> 00:44:28,965
helps you think
about something.
880
00:44:29,034 --> 00:44:31,644
But if you start
to believe that
it is not a...
881
00:44:31,703 --> 00:44:33,673
helpful, ah, fairytale,
882
00:44:33,739 --> 00:44:36,439
but actually the truth,
then you're in big trouble,
883
00:44:36,507 --> 00:44:38,437
because the world
doesn't work like that,
884
00:44:38,509 --> 00:44:40,509
and at times like this,
depression times,
885
00:44:40,578 --> 00:44:42,108
it really doesn't
work like that.
886
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:45,020
So neoclassical economics
is a potential trap.
887
00:44:45,083 --> 00:44:47,493
So if I put it
really at its simplest,
888
00:44:47,552 --> 00:44:49,192
you build a model
where you say,
889
00:44:49,254 --> 00:44:51,264
we assume depressions
are not possible.
890
00:44:51,322 --> 00:44:54,192
That unfortunately,
is not the world we live in.
891
00:44:54,259 --> 00:44:57,399
Conventional economists
don't like to model debt
892
00:44:57,462 --> 00:44:59,132
into their economic models
893
00:44:59,197 --> 00:45:02,767
because debt makes
the models unstable,
894
00:45:02,834 --> 00:45:05,044
so they omit it altogether.
895
00:45:05,103 --> 00:45:08,413
It's modeling
what is easier to model
896
00:45:08,473 --> 00:45:11,143
rather than what is
happening in the real world.
897
00:45:11,209 --> 00:45:14,409
They-they will not break
away from this 19th century,
898
00:45:14,479 --> 00:45:18,019
uh, heuristics
that they thought
899
00:45:18,083 --> 00:45:19,793
would make it easier
to solve the problem.
900
00:45:19,851 --> 00:45:21,291
In fact, they've made
it far harder,
901
00:45:21,352 --> 00:45:23,892
and it's why they had no idea
this crises was coming
902
00:45:23,955 --> 00:45:25,755
because they ignored
banks, debt, and money.
903
00:45:29,294 --> 00:45:33,464
It was a serious, serious
professional problem.
904
00:45:33,531 --> 00:45:34,801
We had a situation--
905
00:45:34,866 --> 00:45:37,236
to compare it to doctors
for a second,
906
00:45:37,302 --> 00:45:38,542
real doctors.
907
00:45:38,603 --> 00:45:43,643
We had a situation where
the patient was bleeding,
908
00:45:43,708 --> 00:45:46,948
but we didn't really recognize
the presence of blood.
909
00:45:47,012 --> 00:45:49,252
Like, it's that serious,
you know.
910
00:45:49,314 --> 00:45:52,554
Why doesn't it appear
ridiculous to economists
911
00:45:52,617 --> 00:45:54,517
to use models
without money?
912
00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:56,145
Uh, I'm
an economist myself,
913
00:45:56,221 --> 00:45:57,761
and it does appear
ridiculous to me.
914
00:45:57,823 --> 00:46:00,593
So, there's at least
one exemption to that,
915
00:46:00,658 --> 00:46:02,958
and quite a few others
to be sure.
916
00:46:03,028 --> 00:46:05,858
It is very hard
to, uh, understand
917
00:46:05,931 --> 00:46:11,741
the reasons why economists
focused on models,
918
00:46:11,803 --> 00:46:13,703
eh, in which crises,
919
00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:16,171
eh, could not occur,
920
00:46:16,241 --> 00:46:17,541
were impossible.
921
00:46:17,608 --> 00:46:19,878
I think economics
has this lure
922
00:46:19,945 --> 00:46:21,945
that the moment we can
explain something
923
00:46:22,013 --> 00:46:24,923
in a beautiful model,
it's just elegant.
924
00:46:24,983 --> 00:46:26,953
And you want the world
to be elegant.
925
00:46:27,018 --> 00:46:28,888
* One dream
926
00:46:28,954 --> 00:46:30,824
* One soul
927
00:46:30,889 --> 00:46:32,959
* One prize
928
00:46:33,024 --> 00:46:34,464
* One goal
929
00:46:34,525 --> 00:46:35,785
* One goal
930
00:46:35,861 --> 00:46:37,561
* One golden glance
931
00:46:38,696 --> 00:46:40,796
* Of what should be
932
00:46:40,866 --> 00:46:42,396
* It's a kind of magic *
933
00:46:42,467 --> 00:46:43,967
* One shaft
934
00:46:44,035 --> 00:46:45,665
* Of light
935
00:46:45,736 --> 00:46:48,536
* That shows the way
936
00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:52,980
* No mortal man
937
00:46:53,879 --> 00:46:55,649
* Can win this day
938
00:46:55,713 --> 00:46:57,183
* It's a kind of magic *
939
00:46:57,248 --> 00:47:00,788
* The bell that rings
940
00:47:00,852 --> 00:47:04,622
* Inside your mind
941
00:47:04,689 --> 00:47:07,929
* Is challenging
942
00:47:08,894 --> 00:47:10,464
* The doors of time
943
00:47:12,597 --> 00:47:15,327
* The waiting seems
944
00:47:16,467 --> 00:47:18,197
* Eternity
945
00:47:20,071 --> 00:47:23,441
* The day will dawn
946
00:47:23,508 --> 00:47:26,038
* Of sanity
947
00:47:27,112 --> 00:47:33,252
* is this a kind of magic?
948
00:47:33,318 --> 00:47:35,218
I think deregulation
has about it
949
00:47:35,286 --> 00:47:36,886
a sort of natural bubble,
950
00:47:36,955 --> 00:47:38,985
which is that
when you allow people
951
00:47:39,057 --> 00:47:40,887
a massive amount of freedom,
952
00:47:40,959 --> 00:47:42,429
they enjoy it.
953
00:47:45,964 --> 00:47:48,604
Key parts of
the regulatory apparatus
954
00:47:48,666 --> 00:47:50,866
were being run by people
955
00:47:50,936 --> 00:47:53,196
who didn't believe
in their job.
956
00:47:53,271 --> 00:47:54,811
They-- they believed
that their job was to
957
00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:56,072
get out of the way of the banks,
958
00:47:56,141 --> 00:47:57,411
or to-- or even
to help the banks,
959
00:47:57,475 --> 00:48:00,475
but not to--
not to protect us from--
960
00:48:00,545 --> 00:48:01,845
uh, from banks gone bad.
961
00:48:01,913 --> 00:48:03,513
We had a banking system
962
00:48:03,581 --> 00:48:06,721
with regulators
who encouraged risk-taking.
963
00:48:06,784 --> 00:48:11,124
They positively encouraged
and rewarded risk-taking,
964
00:48:11,189 --> 00:48:13,589
and politicians
stood up and said
965
00:48:13,658 --> 00:48:16,458
that not just risk-taking
is all right, guys,
966
00:48:16,527 --> 00:48:18,827
they said
the risk-taking is good.
967
00:48:18,896 --> 00:48:20,096
The riskier the better.
968
00:48:20,165 --> 00:48:23,125
* We are sure that everything
969
00:48:23,201 --> 00:48:26,941
* Is hunky-dory,
that's our story *
970
00:48:27,005 --> 00:48:29,105
* Everything will
work out fine *
971
00:48:29,174 --> 00:48:32,684
* Like good wine,
it just needs time *
972
00:48:32,743 --> 00:48:35,413
* Market freedom is the thing
973
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,480
* To cure all ills
and that's why we sing *
974
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:41,489
* Keep the markets
free, free, free *
975
00:48:41,552 --> 00:48:47,432
* For all eternity,
that's the only way to be *
976
00:48:47,492 --> 00:48:50,662
We have a free market
ideology that says
977
00:48:50,728 --> 00:48:52,958
the more you remove the state
978
00:48:53,031 --> 00:48:54,601
from the market,
979
00:48:54,665 --> 00:48:57,995
the more the market is
allowed to do what it does,
980
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:59,899
which is to--
981
00:48:59,971 --> 00:49:01,541
to bring millions of decisions
982
00:49:01,606 --> 00:49:04,006
by people, every day,
together,
983
00:49:04,075 --> 00:49:06,105
in a way that provides
a rational outcome.
984
00:49:06,177 --> 00:49:09,477
So, the market is
our collective rationality.
985
00:49:11,249 --> 00:49:13,749
I suppose
the free market ideology
986
00:49:13,818 --> 00:49:17,658
is where you have
a fundamental belief
987
00:49:17,722 --> 00:49:20,992
that markets are
the optimum way
988
00:49:21,059 --> 00:49:22,829
to create wealth
989
00:49:22,893 --> 00:49:27,473
and to distribute
goods and services
throughout society.
990
00:49:27,532 --> 00:49:30,542
CASSIDY: Alan Greenspan
sort of exemplified the rise
991
00:49:30,601 --> 00:49:32,471
or the comeback
of free market economics
992
00:49:32,537 --> 00:49:34,807
after it had been discredited
in the 1930s.
993
00:49:34,872 --> 00:49:36,312
You can really trace
994
00:49:36,374 --> 00:49:38,384
the whole rise of it
through his career, actually.
995
00:49:38,443 --> 00:49:41,313
He was a man who had,
for decades,
996
00:49:41,379 --> 00:49:43,949
applied a certain way
of thinking.
997
00:49:44,015 --> 00:49:46,215
And... and he was--
998
00:49:46,284 --> 00:49:48,124
And he made
very significant decisions
999
00:49:48,186 --> 00:49:50,656
that influenced
the economy of the world
1000
00:49:50,721 --> 00:49:52,221
based on that framework.
1001
00:49:52,290 --> 00:49:54,730
Alan Greenspan, I think,
had deep, deep belief
1002
00:49:54,792 --> 00:49:56,762
in lack of regulation.
1003
00:49:56,827 --> 00:49:58,057
Right? And, so, he basically,
1004
00:49:58,129 --> 00:49:59,829
eliminated many
of the regulations,
1005
00:49:59,897 --> 00:50:02,097
allowing all the economic agents
1006
00:50:02,167 --> 00:50:04,197
to act as they wished.
1007
00:50:04,269 --> 00:50:06,739
And that framework
assumed that--
1008
00:50:06,804 --> 00:50:09,914
that the agents in the economy
are rational...
1009
00:50:09,974 --> 00:50:11,584
including banks.
1010
00:50:11,642 --> 00:50:14,782
There is a book called Maestro
written about him,
1011
00:50:14,845 --> 00:50:16,845
describing him as a genius
1012
00:50:16,914 --> 00:50:19,054
for not having listened
to naysayers
1013
00:50:19,117 --> 00:50:21,447
who said, "You should
slow this expansion down."
1014
00:50:25,290 --> 00:50:26,960
KRUGMAN: The crash was,
in fact, the proof that
1015
00:50:27,024 --> 00:50:28,864
the Greenspan view
that markets were
1016
00:50:28,926 --> 00:50:31,356
self-policing, self-regulating
was all wrong.
1017
00:50:31,429 --> 00:50:34,029
CASSIDY: So, he was hauled
before Congress to, you know,
1018
00:50:34,099 --> 00:50:36,529
say, well, you know,
"You've been telling us
all for years
1019
00:50:36,601 --> 00:50:38,641
we don't need
financial regulation,
1020
00:50:38,703 --> 00:50:40,343
we don't need to
worry about the market.
1021
00:50:40,405 --> 00:50:43,335
What went wrong?
Did anything go wrong?"
1022
00:50:43,408 --> 00:50:46,978
And he said, "Partially.
Something partially went wrong."
1023
00:50:47,044 --> 00:50:49,354
And they said, "What would you
mean by that Mr. Greenspan?
1024
00:50:49,414 --> 00:50:52,284
You know, uh,
what partially went wrong?"
1025
00:50:52,350 --> 00:50:55,420
You found a flaw in...
reality--
1026
00:50:55,486 --> 00:50:57,586
GREENSPAN: The one flaw
in the model that I perceived
1027
00:50:57,655 --> 00:51:01,585
as the critical
functioning structure
1028
00:51:01,659 --> 00:51:03,589
that defines how the world
works, so to speak.
1029
00:51:03,661 --> 00:51:05,531
In other words,
you found that your--
1030
00:51:05,596 --> 00:51:08,666
your view of the world,
your ideology was not right.
1031
00:51:08,733 --> 00:51:10,703
-It was not working.
-GREENSPAN: That it. How do I--
1032
00:51:10,768 --> 00:51:11,998
Precisely. You know, I--
1033
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:13,839
That's precisely
the reason I was shocked
1034
00:51:13,904 --> 00:51:17,244
because I've been going
for 40 years or more
1035
00:51:17,308 --> 00:51:19,138
with very considerable evidence
1036
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:20,880
that it was
working exceptionally well.
1037
00:51:20,945 --> 00:51:23,905
Quite amazing when he said that
my view of the world was wrong.
1038
00:51:23,981 --> 00:51:26,251
it was a startling admission,
1039
00:51:26,317 --> 00:51:28,317
an indication that...
1040
00:51:28,386 --> 00:51:29,716
perhaps there was some--
1041
00:51:29,787 --> 00:51:32,217
some humility
and hope for redemption
1042
00:51:32,290 --> 00:51:34,020
um, in Mr. Greenspan,
1043
00:51:34,091 --> 00:51:35,831
which turns out
to have been untrue.
1044
00:51:35,893 --> 00:51:38,533
Uh, almost immediately,
he went right back to
1045
00:51:38,596 --> 00:51:40,296
pronouncing with great certainty
1046
00:51:40,365 --> 00:51:42,995
and impeccable wrongness
about everything.
1047
00:51:43,067 --> 00:51:45,937
CUSACK: We really, sort of,
made people like Greenspan
1048
00:51:46,003 --> 00:51:47,613
these, kind of, holy bishops,
1049
00:51:47,672 --> 00:51:50,542
and every word that
they said was reinforced.
1050
00:51:50,608 --> 00:51:53,078
I mean, they were popes
or something, or cardinals.
1051
00:51:53,144 --> 00:51:54,714
And, so, I think for this guy
1052
00:51:54,779 --> 00:51:56,509
to come-- come on
and have to admit
1053
00:51:56,581 --> 00:52:00,551
that basically everything
that he believed was wrong,
1054
00:52:00,618 --> 00:52:04,888
um, just shows you that
this is a-- this is a joke.
1055
00:52:04,955 --> 00:52:07,555
You're all individuals!
1056
00:52:07,625 --> 00:52:11,055
ALL: Yes!
We're all individuals!
1057
00:52:11,128 --> 00:52:12,928
You're all different!
1058
00:52:12,997 --> 00:52:16,267
Yes! We're all different.
1059
00:52:16,334 --> 00:52:18,744
-MAN: I'm not.
-ALL: Shh! Shh!
1060
00:52:18,803 --> 00:52:22,813
If you try and read economies
purely rationally,
1061
00:52:22,873 --> 00:52:24,843
I think that's
a real mistake because
1062
00:52:24,909 --> 00:52:28,609
economies operate
with a herd mentality, sure.
1063
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:31,349
But it's a herd made up
of human beings who are very
1064
00:52:31,416 --> 00:52:33,876
you know, complicated,
and sometimes irrational.
1065
00:52:33,951 --> 00:52:36,251
I think the market is not
our collective rationality.
1066
00:52:36,321 --> 00:52:40,331
It can be, but it can also be
our collective irrationality,
1067
00:52:40,391 --> 00:52:42,191
and what was wrong
with economics
1068
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:44,700
is that it ruled out
the possibility
1069
00:52:44,762 --> 00:52:46,332
of irrational outcomes.
1070
00:52:46,397 --> 00:52:48,367
That's the thing about
free market economics.
1071
00:52:48,433 --> 00:52:50,373
It is a sort of ideology,
1072
00:52:50,435 --> 00:52:52,895
and once you
start believing in it, um,
1073
00:52:52,970 --> 00:52:55,940
it does sort of provide
a sort of framework
1074
00:52:56,006 --> 00:52:57,636
to explain the world.
1075
00:52:57,708 --> 00:53:00,608
And they were sort of
trapped inside their
own ideologies, really.
1076
00:53:01,646 --> 00:53:03,176
JONES: I guess it's about time
1077
00:53:03,248 --> 00:53:07,018
to factor human nature
into economics.
1078
00:53:07,084 --> 00:53:08,794
We've come to Puerto Rico
1079
00:53:08,853 --> 00:53:13,263
to go to that island,
over there, Monkey Island.
1080
00:53:13,324 --> 00:53:16,434
Monkey Island is a very funny
place in Puerto Rico.
1081
00:53:16,494 --> 00:53:18,704
It's an island just off
the southeast coast
1082
00:53:18,763 --> 00:53:21,073
that's home to about
a thousand free-ranging
rhesus monkeys.
1083
00:53:21,131 --> 00:53:23,101
It's a wonderful place to
1084
00:53:23,167 --> 00:53:24,537
really observe
monkey behavior in the wild
1085
00:53:24,602 --> 00:53:26,602
and set up studies to study
1086
00:53:26,671 --> 00:53:28,411
how irrational
they are sometimes.
1087
00:53:28,473 --> 00:53:29,873
I think,
'cause I study monkeys,
1088
00:53:29,940 --> 00:53:31,410
people think
I'm interested in monkeys.
1089
00:53:31,476 --> 00:53:33,406
But really,
I'm interested in people,
1090
00:53:33,478 --> 00:53:35,448
and I find that monkeys are
this fascinating window
1091
00:53:35,513 --> 00:53:36,953
into what people are like.
1092
00:53:37,014 --> 00:53:39,124
You're down here,
you're watching them, like,
1093
00:53:39,183 --> 00:53:40,793
hang out with their friends,
and groom,
1094
00:53:40,851 --> 00:53:42,921
and strive for power,
and getting resources,
and, like,
1095
00:53:42,987 --> 00:53:45,417
it's just this little
evolutionary microcosm
1096
00:53:45,490 --> 00:53:48,430
of what we're like without
language and cellphones
1097
00:53:48,493 --> 00:53:50,633
and all this stuff
of the 21st century.
1098
00:53:50,695 --> 00:53:52,225
One of the things
we really wanted to do
1099
00:53:52,297 --> 00:53:53,297
to understand human choice
1100
00:53:53,364 --> 00:53:54,874
is to see if monkeys would make
1101
00:53:54,932 --> 00:53:56,872
some of the same smart decisions
and bad decisions.
1102
00:53:56,934 --> 00:54:00,874
It tells something about
where we came from
evolutionarily
1103
00:54:00,938 --> 00:54:04,038
and how we're designed
to make decisions.
1104
00:54:04,108 --> 00:54:05,338
So we introduced the monkeys
1105
00:54:05,410 --> 00:54:07,550
to their
own new monkey currency.
1106
00:54:07,612 --> 00:54:09,312
I've one here.
It's a monkey--
1107
00:54:09,380 --> 00:54:10,780
It's got little
bite-marks on it.
1108
00:54:10,848 --> 00:54:12,318
Um, but this is
the monkey currency.
1109
00:54:12,383 --> 00:54:13,753
We gave it to them
and taught them
1110
00:54:13,818 --> 00:54:15,788
they could trade these
with humans for food.
1111
00:54:15,853 --> 00:54:20,123
I believe it's the
only non-human currency
in the world.
1112
00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:22,390
It is, in fact.
It's probably very--
It's worth a lot,
1113
00:54:22,460 --> 00:54:23,890
so I'm gonna
keep it in my pocket.
1114
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:26,660
SANTOS: First they just traded
with one person.
1115
00:54:26,731 --> 00:54:28,431
They got good at that.
And now,
1116
00:54:28,499 --> 00:54:29,969
they get actually,
a choice of people,
1117
00:54:30,034 --> 00:54:32,374
and they get to pick
who they want to trade from.
1118
00:54:32,437 --> 00:54:34,367
And each person in the market,
sort of,
1119
00:54:34,439 --> 00:54:35,569
shows the monkey,
in a little dish,
1120
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:36,840
you know, "Here's
what you can buy."
1121
00:54:36,907 --> 00:54:38,637
And then, uh, the monkey
just gets to choose.
1122
00:54:38,709 --> 00:54:40,509
And they have
a little wallet of tokens
1123
00:54:40,578 --> 00:54:43,408
that they can, kind of,
spend between the experimenters.
1124
00:54:43,481 --> 00:54:45,651
The monkeys meet experimenters
1125
00:54:45,716 --> 00:54:47,346
who don't always give
1126
00:54:47,418 --> 00:54:48,888
the same amount of food
that they show.
1127
00:54:48,953 --> 00:54:50,593
So, they have one amount
of food in their dish,
1128
00:54:50,655 --> 00:54:53,085
but then, they can, kind of,
vary over time.
1129
00:54:53,157 --> 00:54:54,887
Um, so, the monkeys can,
uh, say,
1130
00:54:54,959 --> 00:54:56,359
meet an experimenter
1131
00:54:56,427 --> 00:54:58,227
who looks like
he's selling one grape,
1132
00:54:58,295 --> 00:54:59,525
which seems like
a pretty good deal,
1133
00:54:59,597 --> 00:55:01,067
but every time
the monkey pays him,
1134
00:55:01,131 --> 00:55:02,701
the monkey actually gets two.
1135
00:55:02,767 --> 00:55:05,037
So, the monkey's like,
"Wow, this is great ...," right?
1136
00:55:05,102 --> 00:55:07,242
The monkeys also meet
this other guy and they realize
1137
00:55:07,304 --> 00:55:08,644
this guy starts
with three grapes.
1138
00:55:08,706 --> 00:55:09,966
He looks like
he's a really good deal.
1139
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,640
But every time
the monkey pays him,
1140
00:55:11,709 --> 00:55:14,039
he takes one away
to give the monkeys just two.
1141
00:55:14,111 --> 00:55:16,711
Now, both of these guys,
the guy that, you know,
1142
00:55:16,781 --> 00:55:19,321
looks like he's giving one
but he gives two,
1143
00:55:19,384 --> 00:55:21,754
versus the guy that looks like
he's giving three but gives two,
1144
00:55:21,819 --> 00:55:23,819
they ultimately
give the monkey two, right?
1145
00:55:23,888 --> 00:55:25,418
If the monkey
was being rational,
1146
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:27,220
he would just shop randomly
between the two.
1147
00:55:27,291 --> 00:55:29,361
But what we find
is that the monkeys
1148
00:55:29,427 --> 00:55:30,957
overwhelmingly shop
at the guy who
1149
00:55:31,028 --> 00:55:32,628
starts with one
and gives them two--
1150
00:55:32,697 --> 00:55:34,327
the guy who looks like
he's giving a bonus--
1151
00:55:34,399 --> 00:55:35,769
even though, in fact,
1152
00:55:35,833 --> 00:55:37,303
the monkeys are getting
the same amount of food.
1153
00:55:37,368 --> 00:55:39,538
JONES: I'm going back
to the 2008 crash.
1154
00:55:39,604 --> 00:55:42,574
What-- what effect did
that have on your research?
1155
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,010
Oftentimes when you
study monkeys,
1156
00:55:44,074 --> 00:55:46,644
you're studying, uh,
whether the monkeys can do
1157
00:55:46,711 --> 00:55:48,251
all the smart things
that humans do
1158
00:55:48,312 --> 00:55:49,752
like tool use and language
1159
00:55:49,814 --> 00:55:52,724
and all these
incredibly smart things
that people do.
1160
00:55:52,783 --> 00:55:54,953
And often, the monkeys
come up a bit short.
1161
00:55:55,019 --> 00:55:57,619
And, so, it was really
a game-changer for the research
1162
00:55:57,688 --> 00:55:59,758
because we could
now ask the question,
1163
00:55:59,824 --> 00:56:02,794
not "Are monkeys similar
to humans because monkeys
are so smart?"
1164
00:56:02,860 --> 00:56:05,330
We could ask,
"Are monkeys similar to humans
1165
00:56:05,396 --> 00:56:06,856
because in some ways
they're so dumb?"
1166
00:56:06,931 --> 00:56:09,031
Uh, my colleague, Keith Chen,
is fond of saying,
1167
00:56:09,099 --> 00:56:10,939
you know, if you plotted
the monkey's data
1168
00:56:11,001 --> 00:56:13,041
and you didn't know the data
were from a monkey,
1169
00:56:13,103 --> 00:56:16,413
you would just expect
that they were from
a real human market.
1170
00:56:16,474 --> 00:56:17,914
The human strategies
we're seeing
1171
00:56:17,975 --> 00:56:21,345
in real markets are just
evolutionarily really old.
1172
00:56:21,412 --> 00:56:24,552
They're kind of
leftover strategies
from 35 million years ago.
1173
00:56:26,383 --> 00:56:27,593
KAHNEMAN: Not only do people
1174
00:56:27,652 --> 00:56:30,992
value outcomes
as gains and losses,
1175
00:56:31,055 --> 00:56:33,855
they value losses
a lot more than gains.
1176
00:56:33,924 --> 00:56:36,064
But it leads to
this bias where losses,
1177
00:56:36,126 --> 00:56:37,926
these changes that go
in the negative direction,
1178
00:56:37,995 --> 00:56:39,425
we go in the red,
1179
00:56:39,497 --> 00:56:41,797
they just feel
emotionally more powerful
1180
00:56:41,866 --> 00:56:44,096
than these changes
in a positive direction,
1181
00:56:44,168 --> 00:56:46,238
and that can lead us to do
all kinds of crazy things.
1182
00:56:46,303 --> 00:56:48,343
We're so trying to avoid these
1183
00:56:48,405 --> 00:56:50,335
small relative changes
in the red
1184
00:56:50,407 --> 00:56:52,307
that we do things
like take on more risk.
1185
00:56:52,376 --> 00:56:54,336
JONES: What can we
do about that?
1186
00:56:54,411 --> 00:56:57,111
SANTOS: The idea is that
we just have to admit
that we have these biases,
1187
00:56:57,181 --> 00:56:59,521
that they're old
and hard to get rid of,
1188
00:56:59,584 --> 00:57:00,854
and then we kind of
have to design policies
1189
00:57:00,918 --> 00:57:02,588
and markets and systems
around them.
1190
00:57:02,653 --> 00:57:04,493
I'm quite skeptical
1191
00:57:04,555 --> 00:57:06,385
about the idea that
1192
00:57:06,457 --> 00:57:08,557
individuals can
make themselves smarter
1193
00:57:08,626 --> 00:57:11,726
or can make them
de-bias themselves.
1194
00:57:11,796 --> 00:57:13,626
A little, not much.
1195
00:57:13,698 --> 00:57:15,898
On the other hand,
I think organizations,
1196
00:57:15,966 --> 00:57:18,896
if they are very conscious
of what they want to accomplish,
1197
00:57:18,969 --> 00:57:21,669
they, quite possibly,
can put in place
1198
00:57:21,739 --> 00:57:23,739
procedures that will
protect them
1199
00:57:23,808 --> 00:57:25,678
from different kinds of errors.
1200
00:57:25,743 --> 00:57:29,283
We change the system
rather than our behavior.
1201
00:57:29,346 --> 00:57:31,346
Yeah, like, I mean,
we've had these strategies
1202
00:57:31,415 --> 00:57:32,775
for 35 million years.
1203
00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:36,150
That is an evolutionary
enormous amount of time.
1204
00:57:36,220 --> 00:57:37,860
We're not gonna just
kind of override them
1205
00:57:37,922 --> 00:57:39,722
because in 2008,
we did some dumb things.
1206
00:57:39,790 --> 00:57:41,590
Like, those things
are here to stay.
1207
00:57:41,659 --> 00:57:42,929
We're gonna be
much better off
1208
00:57:42,993 --> 00:57:45,133
if we change the system
around those biases.
1209
00:57:45,195 --> 00:57:46,795
So, hey, we're not rational,
1210
00:57:46,864 --> 00:57:49,034
but we can be smart enough
to set up the system
1211
00:57:49,099 --> 00:57:50,469
to allow us to thrive
1212
00:57:50,535 --> 00:57:53,335
even though we have
these biases that are
a little bit dumb.
1213
00:57:53,403 --> 00:57:55,213
The real problem here
1214
00:57:55,272 --> 00:57:57,242
is not the particular events
1215
00:57:57,307 --> 00:57:59,907
that kicked off
the crash in 2008,
1216
00:57:59,977 --> 00:58:03,577
the real problem is the way
the banking system is designed.
1217
00:58:03,648 --> 00:58:05,318
There are two things,
really, about it.
1218
00:58:05,382 --> 00:58:06,782
I mean, one is to understand
1219
00:58:06,851 --> 00:58:09,351
the systemic nature
of financial instability.
1220
00:58:09,419 --> 00:58:11,259
But the other part of it,
actually, is
1221
00:58:11,321 --> 00:58:12,661
if you do understand
1222
00:58:12,723 --> 00:58:14,763
the systemic nature
of instability,
1223
00:58:14,825 --> 00:58:17,355
then, lots of other things
have to change.
1224
00:58:17,427 --> 00:58:19,127
If you are determined
1225
00:58:19,196 --> 00:58:21,626
to make sure that it--
it doesn't come back
1226
00:58:21,699 --> 00:58:24,369
uh, you know,
within ten or 15 years and--
1227
00:58:24,434 --> 00:58:26,044
and bite you
in the backside again.
1228
00:58:26,103 --> 00:58:28,243
We've come up,
as human beings,
1229
00:58:28,305 --> 00:58:31,375
with the most fragile design
of financial system
1230
00:58:31,441 --> 00:58:33,311
we could possibly think of.
1231
00:58:33,377 --> 00:58:35,647
So, we need to re-think
1232
00:58:35,713 --> 00:58:38,523
what we need
a financial system for,
1233
00:58:38,583 --> 00:58:40,593
and then design one
1234
00:58:40,651 --> 00:58:44,451
that will, uh, provide
those various functions.
1235
00:58:44,521 --> 00:58:47,561
And that might mean
separating out
1236
00:58:47,625 --> 00:58:50,185
the retail,
the basic banking stuff,
1237
00:58:50,260 --> 00:58:53,130
from the rather higher-octane
investment banking stuff.
1238
00:58:53,197 --> 00:58:54,397
And then, we can have
1239
00:58:54,464 --> 00:58:56,434
another part
of the financial system
1240
00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:57,640
that does riskier stuff,
1241
00:58:57,702 --> 00:58:59,402
but we don't allow them
1242
00:58:59,469 --> 00:59:00,969
to, you know, take
1243
00:59:01,038 --> 00:59:03,208
funds away from households,
1244
00:59:03,273 --> 00:59:05,113
from firms, from pension funds.
1245
00:59:05,175 --> 00:59:07,135
We can redesign cars,
1246
00:59:07,211 --> 00:59:10,581
so why can't we redesign
the economic system?
1247
00:59:10,648 --> 00:59:12,918
I got a hundred-dollar check
from my grandma,
1248
00:59:12,983 --> 00:59:14,383
and my dad said I need
to put it in the bank
1249
00:59:14,451 --> 00:59:15,551
so it can grow over the years.
1250
00:59:15,620 --> 00:59:17,490
Well, that's fantastic.
1251
00:59:17,554 --> 00:59:19,064
A really smart decision,
young man.
1252
00:59:19,123 --> 00:59:22,233
We can put that check
in a money market mutual fund.
1253
00:59:22,292 --> 00:59:25,062
Then we'll reinvest
the earnings into
foreign currency accounts
1254
00:59:25,129 --> 00:59:28,069
with compounding interest,
and it's gone.
1255
00:59:35,105 --> 00:59:36,365
Uh, what?
1256
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,040
It's gone.
It's all gone.
1257
00:59:39,844 --> 00:59:41,654
-What's all gone?
-The money in your account.
1258
00:59:41,712 --> 00:59:43,812
It didn't do too well.
It's gone.
1259
00:59:43,881 --> 00:59:45,881
What do you mean?
I--I have a hundred dollars!
1260
00:59:45,950 --> 00:59:47,890
Not anymore you don't.
Poof.
1261
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,460
Well... But what can I do
to get back my--
1262
00:59:51,521 --> 00:59:54,221
I'm sorry, sir, but this line
is for bank members only.
1263
00:59:54,291 --> 00:59:55,561
I just opened an account.
1264
00:59:55,626 --> 00:59:57,656
Do you have any money
invested with this bank?
1265
00:59:57,728 --> 00:59:58,828
No, you just lost it all.
1266
00:59:58,896 --> 01:00:00,626
Then please stand aside
for people
1267
01:00:00,698 --> 01:00:02,528
who actually have money
with us. Next, please.
1268
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:04,499
Today there,
the crisis in particular
1269
01:00:04,568 --> 01:00:08,008
has caused a lot of students
to want to learn economics.
1270
01:00:08,072 --> 01:00:10,982
This happened with the
Depression generation as well.
1271
01:00:11,041 --> 01:00:13,481
Many of the people,
like Hyman Minsky,
1272
01:00:13,543 --> 01:00:14,983
came into economics
1273
01:00:15,045 --> 01:00:17,105
because of that experience
of their childhood.
1274
01:00:17,181 --> 01:00:18,821
They felt
this was something important
1275
01:00:18,883 --> 01:00:21,093
that they needed to understand.
1276
01:00:21,151 --> 01:00:23,391
They didn't find the economics
that they were taught
1277
01:00:23,453 --> 01:00:24,823
to be very helpful.
1278
01:00:29,359 --> 01:00:33,259
The average Ph.D. economist
would train for five years,
1279
01:00:33,330 --> 01:00:37,230
and they would never learn
anything about the history
1280
01:00:37,301 --> 01:00:40,271
of the economic system
that had preceded them.
1281
01:00:40,337 --> 01:00:43,467
If you would spend the class,
uh, for a whole semester,
1282
01:00:43,540 --> 01:00:46,540
and you learn about one
financial crisis after another,
1283
01:00:46,610 --> 01:00:48,210
it might occur to that student
1284
01:00:48,278 --> 01:00:50,978
that financial crises are
a regular part of an economy,
1285
01:00:51,048 --> 01:00:54,348
whereas if you don't
really make that the focus
and you kind of mention,
1286
01:00:54,418 --> 01:00:57,548
"Yeah, oh, yeah,
there was a crisis here,
there was a crisis there,"
1287
01:00:57,621 --> 01:01:01,691
it's a lot easier
to convince a student
that crises aren't natural,
1288
01:01:01,759 --> 01:01:03,589
that it's some fault
of a government
1289
01:01:03,660 --> 01:01:05,100
or some particular action
1290
01:01:05,162 --> 01:01:08,072
that caused the crisis in
this peculiar situation,
1291
01:01:08,132 --> 01:01:11,102
but that's not the normal
tendency of an economy.
1292
01:01:29,086 --> 01:01:32,256
WOMAN: We're all
undergraduates at the
University of Manchester,
1293
01:01:32,322 --> 01:01:34,932
and we're members of the Post-
Crash Economics Society.
1294
01:01:34,992 --> 01:01:37,132
We set up
at the end of last year
1295
01:01:37,194 --> 01:01:39,934
'cause we feel that our
economics education so far
1296
01:01:39,997 --> 01:01:42,027
has been quite limited.
1297
01:01:42,099 --> 01:01:43,929
One of the main issues
is that economics
1298
01:01:44,001 --> 01:01:45,671
has been caught
in this trap where...
1299
01:01:45,736 --> 01:01:49,066
uh... Funding for universities
is entirely determined,
1300
01:01:49,139 --> 01:01:51,939
well, by and large
determined, by research.
1301
01:01:52,009 --> 01:01:53,779
And the research
that is going to get published
1302
01:01:53,844 --> 01:01:56,254
is the mainstream,
is neoclassical economics.
1303
01:01:56,313 --> 01:01:58,353
As a result, that's what
we're being taught.
1304
01:01:58,415 --> 01:02:01,715
The beauty of science,
of true science,
physics, chemistry,
1305
01:02:01,786 --> 01:02:04,286
is that there is a--
there is a debate
between key theorists,
1306
01:02:04,354 --> 01:02:06,424
between, you know,
different ideas.
1307
01:02:06,490 --> 01:02:08,590
Whereas, in economics,
that debate simply
isn't big enough,
1308
01:02:08,658 --> 01:02:11,028
or it's not large enough,
and that's what
we're fighting for.
1309
01:02:11,095 --> 01:02:15,965
Our education
produces economists
who do believe that
1310
01:02:16,033 --> 01:02:19,243
their type of economics
is the only way
to do economics.
1311
01:02:19,303 --> 01:02:21,143
I mean, there's
very little of our degree
1312
01:02:21,205 --> 01:02:23,665
which is devoted
to analyzing
1313
01:02:23,740 --> 01:02:27,280
what happened in 2008
and what happened
in the 1920s,
1314
01:02:27,344 --> 01:02:30,654
which I think must be
a fundamental part
of any economics degree.
1315
01:02:30,714 --> 01:02:32,384
-Yeah.
-It's embarrassing...
1316
01:02:32,449 --> 01:02:36,049
going home and people asking,
"Oh, so you do economics?
1317
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:37,750
What happened in 2008?"
1318
01:02:37,822 --> 01:02:39,322
And I can't tell them.
1319
01:02:39,389 --> 01:02:42,189
What I think we'd all like
to see is, you know,
1320
01:02:42,259 --> 01:02:45,059
economists with a critical mind
coming out of university,
1321
01:02:45,129 --> 01:02:47,799
and into the city
and into public policy.
1322
01:02:47,865 --> 01:02:49,265
And you'll have--
and hopefully you--
1323
01:02:49,333 --> 01:02:51,373
you'll have policy
that reflects as well.
1324
01:02:51,435 --> 01:02:54,195
You'll have a financial
sector that reflects that
1325
01:02:54,271 --> 01:02:58,041
rather than just, you know,
this one-dimensional myopia.
1326
01:02:58,108 --> 01:03:01,408
We want to be economists
and we want to see economists
1327
01:03:01,478 --> 01:03:02,908
coming out of universities
1328
01:03:02,980 --> 01:03:05,480
that can engage
with the real world economy,
1329
01:03:05,549 --> 01:03:08,249
whereas at the moment
we don't feel we can.
1330
01:03:08,318 --> 01:03:11,188
That's what we think
is the point of economics.
1331
01:03:11,255 --> 01:03:13,255
I think that's sort of
gotten lost somewhere.
1332
01:03:29,106 --> 01:03:32,076
The way you change
the teaching of economics
1333
01:03:32,142 --> 01:03:33,782
is to change the teachers.
1334
01:03:33,844 --> 01:03:35,214
It's as simple as that.
1335
01:03:35,279 --> 01:03:38,049
You're not gonna
get into a situation where...
1336
01:03:38,115 --> 01:03:42,685
the teachers who spent decades
building up expertise
1337
01:03:42,752 --> 01:03:45,492
in very mainstream approaches
are going to simply say,
1338
01:03:45,555 --> 01:03:47,415
"Oh, yes, well, that was
all a complete waste of time.
1339
01:03:47,491 --> 01:03:49,931
I'm gonna go do something else."
They simply won't.
1340
01:03:49,994 --> 01:03:51,634
Right. Now, listen up.
1341
01:03:51,695 --> 01:03:54,295
( grunting )
1342
01:03:56,333 --> 01:03:59,773
And so, what I think is,
the professors
1343
01:03:59,836 --> 01:04:03,066
start parroting
these party lines.
1344
01:04:03,140 --> 01:04:04,670
I think you should just
pelt them with vegetables
1345
01:04:04,741 --> 01:04:07,681
and rotten fruit,
and maybe urinate on them.
1346
01:04:07,744 --> 01:04:09,854
That's what, I mean,
that's what I'd do.
1347
01:04:13,217 --> 01:04:16,547
And there's gonna have to be
a different approach
to how this stuff is taught.
1348
01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:18,860
It shouldn't be taught
as branch of physics.
1349
01:04:18,923 --> 01:04:20,693
It should be taught
as a piece of history,
1350
01:04:20,757 --> 01:04:24,787
or as an idea that economics
is again a social thought.
1351
01:04:24,861 --> 01:04:26,931
It's something
that we all do together.
1352
01:04:26,997 --> 01:04:29,967
I--I was
at a conference once
1353
01:04:30,034 --> 01:04:32,744
with a, uh, economist
from Freddie Mac.
1354
01:04:32,802 --> 01:04:37,172
That's one of the agencies
that failed in the 2008 crisis.
1355
01:04:37,241 --> 01:04:39,841
I asked him about--
this was before the crisis--
1356
01:04:39,910 --> 01:04:41,710
about what kind of planning
1357
01:04:41,778 --> 01:04:43,848
they had been doing
for a crisis.
1358
01:04:43,914 --> 01:04:47,454
And he said confidently,
"We have it planned.
1359
01:04:47,517 --> 01:04:50,287
So, we have figured out
what would happen to us
1360
01:04:50,354 --> 01:04:53,724
even if home prices
fell dramatically,
1361
01:04:53,790 --> 01:04:56,160
and we would
survive the storm."
1362
01:04:56,226 --> 01:04:58,156
And I said, "Well,
how much is dramatically?"
1363
01:04:58,228 --> 01:05:00,028
He said,
"Well, we've figured out
1364
01:05:00,097 --> 01:05:05,737
what would be the effect on us
if home prices fell 13%."
1365
01:05:05,802 --> 01:05:09,812
And I said, "Well, what if
they fall more than 13%?"
1366
01:05:09,873 --> 01:05:11,943
And then, he said,
"What do you mean?
1367
01:05:12,009 --> 01:05:13,979
They've never fallen
that much."
1368
01:05:14,044 --> 01:05:16,484
He said, "Well, not since
The Great Depression."
1369
01:05:16,546 --> 01:05:18,176
One of the things
that we learn
1370
01:05:18,248 --> 01:05:20,448
from the study
of history
1371
01:05:20,517 --> 01:05:23,817
is that people learn
nothing from history,
1372
01:05:23,887 --> 01:05:27,657
or they tend to repeat
the mistakes of the past,
1373
01:05:27,724 --> 01:05:31,604
and I think that's because
of human nature.
1374
01:05:31,661 --> 01:05:33,961
( music playing )
1375
01:05:35,499 --> 01:05:40,339
* We're here forever
blowing bubbles *
1376
01:05:40,404 --> 01:05:43,774
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1377
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,680
* They fly so high
1378
01:05:46,743 --> 01:05:48,583
* Nearly reach the sky
1379
01:05:48,645 --> 01:05:51,775
* They're like my dreams
they fade and die *
1380
01:05:51,848 --> 01:05:53,118
( groaning )
1381
01:05:53,183 --> 01:05:57,823
* Fortune's always hiding *
1382
01:05:57,887 --> 01:06:02,157
* We've looked everywhere *
1383
01:06:02,226 --> 01:06:06,056
* We're forever
blowing bubbles *
1384
01:06:06,130 --> 01:06:10,900
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1385
01:06:10,967 --> 01:06:13,297
* We're dreaming dreams *
1386
01:06:13,370 --> 01:06:15,410
* We're scheming schemes *
1387
01:06:15,472 --> 01:06:19,882
* We're building
castles high *
1388
01:06:19,943 --> 01:06:22,113
* They're born anew *
1389
01:06:22,179 --> 01:06:24,249
* Their days are few
1390
01:06:24,314 --> 01:06:26,884
* Just like
a sweet butterfly *
1391
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:28,350
( sighs )
1392
01:06:28,418 --> 01:06:33,088
* And as the daylight
is dawning *
1393
01:06:33,157 --> 01:06:37,727
* They come again
in the morning *
1394
01:06:40,530 --> 01:06:45,270
* We're forever
blowing bubbles *
1395
01:06:45,335 --> 01:06:50,335
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1396
01:06:50,407 --> 01:06:53,437
* They fly so high
1397
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:55,510
* Nearly reach the sky
1398
01:06:55,579 --> 01:07:00,919
* They're like my dreams
they fade and die *
1399
01:07:00,984 --> 01:07:05,464
* Fortune's
always hiding *
1400
01:07:05,522 --> 01:07:11,132
* We've looked
everywhere *
1401
01:07:11,195 --> 01:07:15,165
* We're forever
blowing bubbles *
1402
01:07:15,232 --> 01:07:20,242
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1403
01:07:21,705 --> 01:07:25,035
* We're forever
blowing bubbles *
1404
01:07:25,109 --> 01:07:26,609
* Two, three, four
1405
01:07:26,676 --> 01:07:30,246
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1406
01:07:31,181 --> 01:07:33,481
* They fly so high
1407
01:07:33,550 --> 01:07:36,020
* Nearly reach
the sky *
1408
01:07:36,086 --> 01:07:37,986
* Then like
my dreams *
1409
01:07:38,054 --> 01:07:41,194
* They fade
and die *
1410
01:07:41,258 --> 01:07:46,358
* Fortune's
always hiding *
1411
01:07:46,430 --> 01:07:51,270
-* We've looked everywhere *
-( groaning )
1412
01:07:51,335 --> 01:07:55,605
* We're forever
blowing bubbles *
1413
01:07:55,672 --> 01:08:00,682
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1414
01:08:00,744 --> 01:08:07,184
* Pretty bubbles
in the air *
1415
01:08:11,321 --> 01:08:13,361
* Yeah
1416
01:08:15,225 --> 01:08:17,255
( music playing )
1417
01:08:19,796 --> 01:08:21,866
* Financial instability
hypothesis *
1418
01:08:21,931 --> 01:08:24,001
* Boom boom boom boom
1419
01:08:24,067 --> 01:08:26,397
* I need the crystal
drop and poppin' *
1420
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:28,470
* I got diamonds
rockin' rockin' *
1421
01:08:28,538 --> 01:08:30,568
* A boom-bust boom-bust
keep bumpin' *
1422
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,680
* Minsky wasn't no chump,
said somethin' *
1423
01:08:32,742 --> 01:08:34,782
* Greedy motherfuckers
need to hear *
1424
01:08:34,844 --> 01:08:37,014
* Shit's going on here
all year *
1425
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,380
* Blowin' bubbles,
makin' ninja loans *
1426
01:08:39,449 --> 01:08:41,689
* Maybe greed's
just in the bones *
1427
01:08:41,751 --> 01:08:43,691
* Blowin' bubbles
makin' ninja loans *
1428
01:08:43,753 --> 01:08:45,993
* Maybe greed
is just in the bones *
1429
01:08:46,055 --> 01:08:49,955
* Boom bust boom bust
1430
01:08:50,026 --> 01:08:52,226
* Leaving brothers ghost town
1431
01:08:52,296 --> 01:08:54,856
* Negative equity take down
1432
01:08:54,931 --> 01:08:58,601
* Boom bust boom bust
1433
01:08:58,668 --> 01:09:01,098
* Subprime toxic downtown
1434
01:09:01,171 --> 01:09:03,011
* Double dip,
triple-A meltdown *
1435
01:09:03,072 --> 01:09:05,182
* Pile of tulip maniacs,
free market brainiacs *
1436
01:09:05,242 --> 01:09:07,812
* Wall Street apes buyin'
two-for-one grape sale *
1437
01:09:07,877 --> 01:09:09,907
* Never learnin'
just turnin' *
1438
01:09:09,979 --> 01:09:12,019
* Stamping papers
on the bridge then burn it *
1439
01:09:12,081 --> 01:09:14,381
-* Gimme, gimme that
-* Money, money
1440
01:09:14,451 --> 01:09:16,551
-* Need to get that
-* Money money
1441
01:09:16,620 --> 01:09:18,620
-* I wanna get that
-* Money money
1442
01:09:18,688 --> 01:09:20,818
-* Gimme, gimme that
-* Money money
1443
01:09:20,890 --> 01:09:23,190
* Blowing bubbles
makin' ninja loans *
1444
01:09:23,260 --> 01:09:25,330
* Maybe greed
is just in the bones *
1445
01:09:25,395 --> 01:09:27,425
* Blowing bubbles
makin' ninja loans *
1446
01:09:27,497 --> 01:09:30,197
* Maybe greed
is just in the bones *
1447
01:09:30,267 --> 01:09:32,397
* Hyman Minksy never lied
1448
01:09:32,469 --> 01:09:34,569
* John Cusack never lied
1449
01:09:34,638 --> 01:09:36,838
* Mr. Krugman never lied
1450
01:09:36,906 --> 01:09:38,976
* Ted Crocker never lied
1451
01:09:39,042 --> 01:09:40,982
* Terry Jones never lied
1452
01:09:41,044 --> 01:09:42,914
* Bill and Ben never lied
1453
01:09:42,979 --> 01:09:45,219
* Justin Weyers never lied
1454
01:09:45,282 --> 01:09:47,382
* Chris and John never lied
1455
01:09:47,451 --> 01:09:49,951
* ...never lied
1456
01:09:50,019 --> 01:09:52,059
* Andre never lied
1457
01:09:52,121 --> 01:09:53,921
* ...never lied
1458
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:55,860
* Triple-A meltdown
1459
01:09:55,925 --> 01:09:58,695
* Financial instability
hypothesis boom *
1460
01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:04,730
* Financial instability
hypothesis boom *
1461
01:10:04,801 --> 01:10:07,301
* Financial instability
hypothesis boom *
1462
01:10:08,938 --> 01:10:12,208
* Financial instability
hypothesis boom *
109612
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