Original subtitles

High bloodssure can happen or worsen with Aimovig. Common side

effects include injection site reactions and constipation. Itsn't matter what

each day brings. So long as you can say... ...

I am here. Aim... ...To be there more. Talk to

your doctor about Aimovig. ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??????

?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? Lesley Stahl: Tonight, in what has

become an election year tradition for "60 minutes," conversations with

the major party candidates for president and vice president of

the united States. Later, Norah o'donnell interviews former vice president

Joe Biden and his running mate senator kamala Harris, but

we begin with president Donald Trump and vice president Mike

pence. I spoke with the president on Tuesday in the

Roosevelt room at the white house. We had prepared to

talk about the many issues and questions facing the president,

but in what has become an all-too- public dust-up, the

conversation was cut short. It began politely, but ended regrettably,

contentiously. Are you ready for some tough questions? President Donald

Trump: You're gonna be fair. Stahl: Are you G-- President

Trump: Just be- Stahl: I'm gonna be fair. President Trump:

Just be fair. Stahl: But you're okay with me tough

questions? President Trump: No, I'm not. I mean-- Stahl: (Laugh)

You're not okay with tough President Trump: I want 'em

to be fair. You-- you don't ask Biden tough questions.

President Trump: Okay. Are you ready-- Stahlready? Everybody ready? So

we have the pandemic. On your watch, we've had racial

strife, we've had looting. Why do you want this job?

Why do you want to be president again? President Trump:

Because we've done a great job and it's not finished

yet. And when I finish, this country will be in

a position like it hasn't been maybe ever. The economy

is already roaring back. And other people aren't gonna bring

it back, certainly the person that we're dealing with is

nonna bring it back. They're gonna raise taxes. Stahl: Let

me ask you what you think your-- the biggest domestic

priority is for you right now. President Trump: Well-- Stahl:

Or next year. President Trump: Ultimately, LE-- let me-- and

I-- I'll tell you, it was happening. We created the

greatest economy in the history of our country. And the

other side was-- Stahl: You know that-- you know-- President

Trump: --Coming in- Stahl: --That's not true. President Trump: It

is totally true. Stahl: No. It isn't, but president trump

did have an impressive string of economic accomplishments. President Trump:

We had the best stock market price and we're getting

close to that price again. The unemployment numbers for African

Americans, for Asian Americans, for hispanic Americans. Virtually every number

was the best. And what was happening is things were

coming together- Stahl: W-- I asked you what's the-- priority?

I mean, those are all the good things- President Trump:

President Trump: --Is to get back to normal. Get back

The priority now-- Stahl: --What do you have to solve?

to where we were. To have the economy rage and

be great with jobs and everybody be happy. And that's

where we're going, and that's-- --where we're heading. Stahl: And

who is our biggest foreign adversary? President Trump: I would

say China. They're an adversary. They're a-- Stahl: They're the

biggest? President Trump: -- competitor. THA foe in many ways,

but they're an adversary. I think what happened was disgraceful,

should never have happened. Should-- they should never have allowed

this plague to get out of China and go throughout

the world. 188 countries. Should never have happened. Stahl: Four

years ago, you were behind in the polls, as you

are now, and you pulled it but this time, you

have kind of a double migraine. You have unemploymenms going

up. You have covid cases going up. I mean, it's

like the gods have suddenly decided-- decided to conspire against

you-- President Trump: I don't think so at all, no.

I think we've done-- Stahl: Well, what about the-- President

Trump: --A great job with covid. Stahl: Sir, excuse me,

cases are up in about 40 states. President Trump: Okay--

you know why cases are up also? Because we do

more testing. The fake news media loves to say cases

are up. The fact is, we've done , very good

job-- Stahl: Cases are up. President Trump: We have done--

that's righcause we're doing so much testing. Stahl: There is

increased testing, but according to the covid tracking project, that

doesn't account for all of the rise in new cases

sweeping the country, or the 40% increase in hospitalizations in

the past month. When you're out there saying we've turned

the corner, this thing is disappearing-- President Trump: That's right.

We have turned-- Stahl: --And people can see-- President Trump:

--The corner. We have turned the corner. Understand the disease.

We understand the elderly, and we are taking care of

them like nobody's ever taken care of so we are

taking care of our people. Stahl: Okay. Let me-- let

me ask you something about suburban women. President Trump: Yeah.

Suburban women will you please like me? Please, please. I

saved your damn neighborho okay? Stahl: You said the other

day to suburban women, "Will you please like me? Please,

please-- President Trump: Oh, I didn't say that. You know,

that's so misleading, the way Y-- I say jokingly, "Suburban

women, you should love me because I'm giving you security."

And I got rid of the worst regulation-- see, the

way you said that-- Stahl: Yeah? President Trump: --Is why

people think of you and everyone else as fake news.

I said kiddinguburban women, you should love me." I got

rid of a regulation-- Stahl: You said, quote-- President Trump:

--That would bring low-income housing into suburbia that is destroying--

that would destroy suburbia. And I said that in a

joking way. The way you have it, it's like, "Oh,"

like I'm begging. I W-- I'm kidding. Play it, and

I'm kidding. That is such a misleading question, Lesley. Stahl:

But you're behind with suburban women in the polls. President

Trump: I doubt it. I doubt it. I really doubt

it. Stahl: One of the reasons is that they don't

feel you're being upfront about the pandemic. Are you deliberately

downplaying it? President Trump: We're rounding the corner. We're doing

well. We're doing well. We understand the disease. We've done

a good job. We've done maybe a great job. What

we haven't done a good job on is convincing people

like you because you're really quiteimpossible to convince, but that's

okay. And the economy now is coming back and it's

coming back very strongly, anpeople see that, Lesley. Stahl: There

are more unemployment claims-- I mean, the economy has kind

of-- President Trump: Lesley, we just picked up-- Stahl: --Stalled

a little bit. President Trump: --11.4 million jobs. It's the

largest number in the history of our cou Stahl: It

is true that of the 22 million jobs lost since

February, 11.4 million have been restored. Yet unemployment claims are

running atrically high levels. But the president sees the economy

as his strongest suit. President Trump: Gallup did a poll:

56% of the people said that they're better off now,

during a pandemic, than they were during Obama and Biden.

56%. It was a record number. Stahl: Can we go

back for one second to the pandemic, because you called

Dr. Fauci and other health officials idiots. President Trump: Where

did I call him an idiot? Stahl: You called them

"Idiots." I wonder if you think-- President Trump, he's been

wrong a lot. I like him, but he's been wrong

a lot. Stahl: I wonder if you think that masks

don't work. President Trump: I feel masks possibly work. But

certainly you want to stay away a certain distance, socially

distance, et cetera. But I would say a mask works.

And I have nothing against masks. And I tell people

to wear masks. I have no problem-- Stahl: Well, tell

me then about these rallies you've been having-- President Trump:

A lot ofpeople are wearing masks, and they're-- outside. Stahl:

--With people-- a lot of people-- aren't. I'm-- I'm watching

all these people jammed in together, and I'm seeing most

of them without masks. And I'm wondering the message that

you're sending with these pictures coming across television-- Preside Trump:

Take a look. Yesterday we were in Arizona, record-setting rallies.

Numbers of people like nobody's seen before. Stahl: You used

to have bigger rallies. President Trump: No, these are much

bigger than I ever had. Stahl: Okay, I don't want

to bicker over that. President Trump: You know, you're-- you're--

Stahl: Tell me about the mask wearing. Sident Trump: --So

negative. You're so negative. These are the biggest rallies we've

ever had. You just come in here with that negative

attitude. These are the biggest rallies we've ever had. Stahl:

But I can't believe, after what happened in the rose

garden here, after the announcement, with all the people getting

sick-- President Trump: Yeah. Stahl: --That you're not being more

strongly encouraging about wearing masks-- President Trump: I am. Stahl:

--At your rallies- President Trump: I tell people to wear

masks-- hl: But you don't. President Trump: Lesley, we hand

out thousands of masks at every rally. Stahl: But you

look out and they're not wearing them. You don't get

up there and say, "Look. You know, come on. I

don't want you to--" President Trump: What's your- - what's

your next-- Stahl: --"Get sick." President Trump: --Question, lesley?'re outside.

The rallies are bigger than they've ever been. There's more

enthusiasm than we've ever had. There has never been anything

like what you're witnessing now, and you'll see that soon.

Stahl: Okay, I'll ask you another health question, okay? Told

you. You promised that there was gonna be a new

health package, a health care plan. President Trump: Yeah. Stahl:

You said that it was, "Gonna be great," you said

"It's ready," "It's gonna be ready"-- President Trump: It will

be. Stahl: "It'll be here in two weeks." "It's gonna

be like nothing you've ever seen before." And of course

we haven't seen it. So why didn't you develop a

health plan? President Trump: It is developed, it is fully

developed. It's going to be announced very soon-- Stahl: When?

President Trump: When we seat happens with Obamacare. Stahl: If

the supreme court ends this-- Obamacare-- President Trump: Well, we're

gonna have to see what happens. I think-- I hope

that they end it. It'll be so good if they

end it- - Stahl: And if they end it people

with preexisting conditions will be stranded. And that's just a

fact. President Trump: No, no. It's wrong. Stahl: No-- President

Trump: It's wrong. A new plan will happen. Stahl: But

will-- President Trump: And we W do anything-- will and

is. We won't do anything and no plan unless we

have preexisting conditions covered. Stahl: With little more than a

week till the election, the president has been barnstorming the

swing states where the polls are tight, including Florida, Wisconsin,

Pennsylvania and here in Michigan. Can you characterize your supporters?

President Trump: Yeah, I think I can. People that love

our country. More than anything else and they like to

see our country thrive. Stahl: But do you think that

when you hold rallies and encourage people to say, "Lock

her up," the way you--- President Trump: I don't encourage

them. They say it. Stahl: And you enjoy it-- you

don't say, "Don't do that--" President Trump: Hillary Clinton, let--

let me just tell you-- Hillary Clinton deleted, she deleted

33,000 emails after she got a subpoena from the United

States congress. Stahl: But why is this still an issue?

Why do people, they're not gonna vote on that-- President

Trump: I think it's an issue. To me it's an

issue. Stahl: She ran last time. President Trump: Excuse me.

When they say "Lock her up," it's not me. They

say it. It starts, it-- it ends up being-- Stahl:

You encourage it. President Trump: I don't encourage it. Stahl:

Yes, you do. President Trump: No if I mention her

name about something, they go crazy. Stahl: Well, what about

the governor of Michigan? Governor Gretchen Whitmer was the target

of a kidnapping plot by an armed militia group. President

Trump: It was our justice department that is the one

that's helping her. My justice department, if you call it

that-- Stahl: Yes, yes the F.B.I. President Trump: It was

our justice department that's helping her. And, you knople aren't

so, they're not liking her so much, 'cause she's got

everybody locked down. You've gotta get your governor to open

up your state, okay. Crowd: Lock her up!er up! Lock

her up! President Trump: Lock 'iem all up! Stahl: You

are very powerful, and the people who love you, love

you with passion. And if you go after somebody the

way you've been going after her, they take it to

heart-- President Trump: I haven't gone after her.hl: --And they,

then there are plots and threats, and the same with

Dr.-- President Trump: I haven't gone after her. Stahl: You

did. Presi Trump: I've helped her. It was our justice

department-- Stahl: D go after-- you-- you criticized her-- President

Trump: --That's helping her. Oh, I do criticize her, yeah.

Stahl: Well, that's going after her-- President Trump: I think

the way she locked down Michigan is a disgrace. Stahl:

But when you-- President Trump: The way she closed churches

in Michigan is a disgrace. I-- yeah, I think it's

disgraceful what she's done. I do. Stahl: You want to

lock her up? President Trump: And, by the way, that's

other-- of course, I don't want to lock her up.

Why would I lock her up? Stahl: Because you were

in front of a rally of people saying it, encouraging

it. President Trump: Lesley, it's such a vicious tou just

said. I never said, "Lock up the governor of Michigan."

I would never say that. Stahl: Do you take any

responsibility for the country being divided against itself? Do you

feel that? President Trump: I'd like not to, but, you

know, perhaps everybody has to take a little responsibility for

it. But when people put out phony witch hunts, you

know, when they spy on your campaign, you have to

fight back. And if you don't fight back, you're not

sitting here very long. You go back home. You go

back home to mommy. Stahl: The president's accusations against the

Biden family, the abrupt end of our conversation and vice

president Mike pence's assessment of what end, when we return.

( Ticking) 'S so much space. We have a guestroom

now. But, we have a. You're slouching again, Ted. Expired,

expired... Expired. Thanks, Aunt Bonnie. It's a lot of house.

I hope you can keep it clean. At least Geico

makes bundling our home and car insurance easy. Which helps

us save a lot of money Oh, Teddy. Did you

get my friend request? Uh, I'll have to check. (Doorbell

ringing) Aunt Joni's here! For bundling made easy, go to

geico.com. Hello? ??? Oh, oh, oh, ozempic??! ??? (announcer) Once-weekly

Ozempic?? is helping many people with type 2 diabetes like

Emily lower their blood sugar. A majority of adults who

took Ozempic?? reached an A1C under 7 and maintained it.

Here's your A1C. Oh! My A1C is under 7! (Announcer)

And you may lose weight. Adults who took Ozempic?? lost

on average up to 12 pounds. I lost almost 12

pounds! Oh! (Announc For those also with known heart disease,

heart attack, stroke, or death. It lowers the risk. Oh!

Ozempic?? lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as

And I only have to take it once a week.

Oh! Oh, oh, oh, ozempic??! ??? (announcer) Ozempic?? is not

Don't reuse needles. Do not take Ozempic?? if you have

a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, Multiple

for people wi is. Do not share needles or pens.

Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic

to Ozempic??. Stop taking Ozempic?? and get medical help right

away if you get a lump or swelling in your

neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing. Serious

side effects may include pancreatitis. Tell your doctor if you

have diabetic retinopathy or vision changes. Ozempic?? with a sulfonylurea

or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. Common side

effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation. Some

side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney

problems. Once-weekly Ozempic?? is helping me reach my blood sugar

goal. ??? Oh, oh, oh, ozempic??! ??? You may pay

as little as $25 for a 1-month or 3-month preption.

Ask your health care provider today about once-weekly Ozempic??. Subject

to subject, our conversation grew more tense. President trump brought

up what he calls the unfairness of the fake media.

Most prominently: A lack of coverage of his unproven and

unverified charges that former vice president Joe Biden and his

son hunter have received ns of dollars in corrupt payments

from a Russian oligarch and a Chinese billionaire. President Trump:

I wish you would interview Joe Biden like you interview

me. It would be so good. You know what? Stahl:

You like this, I thought- President Trump: The, the-- Stahl:

I thought you liked sparring-- President Trump: I don't mind

it. I don't mind it. But when I watch him

walk out of a store, and he's walking with an

ice cream. And the question the media asks him, "What

kind of ice cream? What flavor ice cream do you

have?" And he's in the midst of a scandal. Stahl:

He's not. President Trump: And he'stataking Stahl: He's not, no--

resident Trump: Of course he is, Lesley. Stahl: Come on.

President Trump: Of course he is. It's the biggest --

second- biggest scandal. The biggest scandal was when they spied

on my campaign. They spied on my campaign, Lesley. Stahl:

Well, there's no-- real evidence of that. President Trump: Of

course there is. It's all over-- Stahl: No-- President Trump:

--The place. Lesley, they-- Stahl: Sir-- President Trump: --Spied on

my campaign and they got caught- - Stahl: Can I--

can I say something? You know, this is "60 minutes."

And we can't put on things we can't verify-- President

Trump: No, you won't put it on because it's bad

for Biden. Look, let me tell you-- Stahl: We can't

put on things we can't verify-- President Trump: Lesley, they

spied -- Stahl: And-- President Trump: --On my campaign. Stahl:

Well, we can't verify that-- President Trump: It's been totally

verified. Stahl: No. President Trump: It's been-- just go down

and get the papers. They spied on my campaign, they

got caught. Stahl: No. President Trump: And then they went

much further than that and they got caught. And you

will see that, Lesley. And you know that. But you

just don't want to put it on the air-- Stahl:

No-- as a matter of fact, I don't know that.

President Trump: Okay. Stahl: And you're out there-- President Trump:

So why don't you get back to your interview, and

let's go. Stahl: Do you think that your tweets and

your name-calling are turning people off? President Trump: No, I

think I wouldn't be here if I didn't haial media.

But the media is fake. And frankly, if I didn't

have social media, I'd have no way of getting out

my voice. Stahl: Do you know what you told me

a long time ago when I asked why you keep

saying "Fake media?" President Trump: Yeah? Yeah? Stahl: You said

to me, "I say that because I need to discredit

so that when you say negahings about me, no one

will believe you"-- President Trump: I don't have to discredit

you. Stahl: But that's what you told me-- President Trump:

You've discredited yourself. Stahl: You know, I didn't want to

have this kind of angry- - President Trump: Of course

you did. Stahl: No, I didn't- President Trump: Of course

you did-- Stahl: --No, I didn't. President trump:well, then you

brought up a lot of subjects that were inappropriately brought

up-- Stahl: Well, I said, I'm gonna ask you tough

questions. But-- President Trump: They were inappropriately brought up. Right

from the beginning. No, your first question was, "This is

going to be tough questions." You don't ask Joe Biden,

I saw your interview with Joe, the interview with Joe

Biden. Stahl: I never did a Joe Biden interview- President:

It was ake. The interview, "60 minutes." I see Joe

Biden, givinball after softball. I've seen all of his interviews.

He's never been asked a question that's hard. Stahl: Okay,

but forget him for a minute. You're president-- Presirump: No,

but you start with me. Stahl: You're president, and- President

Trump: Excuse me, Lesley, you started with me. Your first

statement was, "Are you ready for tough questions?" Stahl: Are

you? President Trump: That's no way to talk. That's no

way to talk. Y, one, one second. Stahl: At this

point, one of our producers interrupted to advise about the

time remaining in the interview. President Trump: I think we

have enough of an interview here, hope. Okay? That's enough.

Let's go. LE. Let's go meet for two seconds, okay?

Thanks. I'll see you in a little while. Thanks. Stahl

we were scheduled to take a walk with the president

around the white house grounds. I've got a lot of

questions I didn't ask. While Ted to see I president

was coming back, his press secretary, Kayleigh Mcenany, came in

with a hand delivery. Kayleigh Mcenany: Lesley, the president wanted

me to deliver his health care plan, it's a heavy.

Stahl: Oh my god. This is his health care plan?

Mcenany: Yes. Stahl: Okay. Kayleigh, thank you. Mcenanay: You're welcome

and the president will be with you shortly. Stahl: Okay.

And the president's not coming back? My: The president's given

you a lot of time. Stahl: It was heavy. Filled

with executive orders, congressional initiatives, but no comprehensive health plan.

Vice President Mike Pence: Hello, Lesley. : Hi, Mr. Vice

president. While our interview with the president did not go

forward, the one scheduled with the vice president did. Stahl:

So what just happened with the president? Vice President Pence:

Lesley, president trump is a man who speaks his mind.

I thin's one of the great strengths that he's had--

Stahl: But he walked out- Vice President Pence: --As president

of the United States, is that the American people always

know where they stand. Stahl: I'll buy that- Vice President

Pence: And he's always ready. And the American people know

that-- in this time, it's, it's- - it's less about

the back and forth with the media, and it's-- it's

really more about how we bring this country all the

way back. Stahl: We then asked the vice president to

put on his hat as the head of the white

house coronavirus task force. Dr. Fauci. You know the president

said that he's a disaster, and he and the- -

other public health officials around him are idiots. Do you

care to comment on that? Vice President Pence: The scientists

who've worked around the white house coronavirus task force, who

will meet again today here at the white house-- have

provided a great public service. They've-- Stahl: So not idiots--

Vice President Pence: -- brought the perspective of scientists all

along the way. And I have-- I have a relationship

with Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx but remember, the president

of the United States has to consider the whole of

America. The press been balancing the broad interests of the

country and the health of the American people, and we'll

continue to do that every day. Stahl: So let's say

there's a mother out there. Let's say in a hot

spot in Wisconsin. And she's wondering whether she should send

her children to school. Now, what's your advice? Vice President

Pence: Lesley, we got to get our kids back in

school. And I would say to that mother, or any

mother, that we're gonna continue to work our hearts out

to make sure that those schools have the testing, have

the P.P.E., have the supplies they need to get our

kids back where they belong, safe and sound, in the

classroom. Stahl: So are you saying she should send the

kids back? Should the kids wear masks? Vice President Pence:

I think they should adhere to whatever criteria the school

administrators and local health officials determine to be appropriate. But

really, again, I want to say, the American academy of

pediatricians made it clear early on that distance learning, this

online learning, is no substitute for being in the classroom.

Stahl: What about Thanksgiving? Should people feel safe to get

together with their family? With their grandparents? With their aunts

and uncles? Vice President Pence: Thanksgiving is one of my

favorite holidays. Stahl: Me too. Vice President Pence: And-- and

I'm looking forward to it with our family. Stahl: With

a big-- with extended? Vice President Pence: I think that's

a decision every American Faly can make based on the

circumstances in their community, the vulnerability of particular family members.

Now, one of the things we apprehended early on is

that seniors, particularly those with serious underlying health ions, are

the most at- risk-- for a serious outcome if they

contract the coronavirus. And so W-- families may make a

decision that-- that erin elderly family members might take a

pass but I think the difference between president trump and

me and some of the public voices in this debate

over the last year has been we trust the American

people. Stahl: Norah o'donnell talks with former vice president Joe

Biden and his running mate senator kamala Harris, when we

come back. ( Ticking) We're all finding ways to keep

moving. But how do we make sure the direction we're

headed is forward? At Fidelity, you'll get the planning and

advice to prepare you for the future, without sacrificing the

that are important to you today. We'll help you plan

for healthcare costs, taxes and any other uncertainties along the

way. Because with Fidelity, you can feel confident that the

only direction you're moving is forward. ( ????????? ) Ready

to juv??derm it? Correct age-related volume loss in cheeks with

juv??derm Voluma XC, add fullness to LI with juv??derm ultra

XC and smooth moderate to severe lines around the nose

and mouth with juv??derm XC. Tell your doctor if you

have a history of scarring or are taking medicines that

decrease the body's immune response or that can prolong bleeding.

Common side effects include injection-site redness, swelling, pain, tenderness, firmness,

lumps, bumps, bruising, discoloration or itching. As with all fillers,

there is a rare risk of unintentional injection into a

scabs ring. Juv??derm it. Talk to your doctor about the

blood vessel, which can cause vision abnormalities, blindness, stroke, temporary

juv??derm Coll of fillers. Bob: I had a son named

Michael. A suicide bomber appeared, and he was killed. On

September 11th, Mil came home. Max Rose said I'm gonna

help get Michael the Distinguished Service Cross. That meant so

much. This is a man who almost lost his life.

When I hear this crap about Max defunding the police,

I'm outraged. It's all lies. The last thing Max would

do is disrespect a uniform. Disclaimer: House Majority pac is

responsible for the content of this advertising. ( Ticking) Norah

o'donnell: When we spoke with Joe Biden this past week

in Wilmington, Delaware, the former vice president was ahead in

the polls confronting a withering finalsault from president trump. As

the presidential campaign enters its final full week also had

questions for his running mate, California senator Harris. In our

conversation, Joe Biden discussed how much he'd be influenced by

Progressives within his oty, whether his proposed tax increases would

hurt the economy, and how he views the current state

of the race. With less than two weeks to go

before election ou have held a steady lead in the

national and state polls, but so did Y Clinton four

years ago. Could Donald Trump still win this? Joe Biden:

Sure. I'm one of those folks, or competitors, it's not

over till the bell rings. And I feel superstitious when

I predict anything other than gonna be a hard fight.

We feel good about where we are. But, you know,

I-- I don't underestimate how he plays. O'donnell: What do

you mean, you don't underestimate how he plays? Joe Biden:

Well, you know, there's an awful lot of talk out

there bat-- trying to sort of delegitimize the election, all

I think designed to make people wonder whether or not

they should, whether it's worth going to vote. Just the

intimidation factor. But what really has pleased me is the

overwhelming turnout in the states that have early voting. O'donnell:

Do you think there are a lot of people who

are gonna vote for you simply because you're not Donald

Trump? Joe Biden: Well, I hope there's gonna be a

lot of people who vote for me because of who

I am. But I think the contrast between Donald Trump

and me is about as stark as it can get

in terms of our value set and how we view

the world. O'donnell: I was listening to one of your

podcasts and you said we need some revolutionary, institutional changes.

Like what? Joe Biden: Well, for example, I think we

have to fundamentally change the way in which we deal

with institutional racism. For example, one of the hardest things,

beyond police issues, there's the issue of accumulation of wealth.

There's an awful lot of black Americans who are equally

as-- th're as qualified as white Americans based on the

same status they're in, in terms of economic opportunity but

they don't get a chance. So, for example, if we

just made every corpn pay minimu 15% tax; you goty

no tax. That raises over $400 billion. I can send

every single qualified person to a four-year