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[silence]
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[ominous music ♪]
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[metal jangling]
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00:00:37,633 --> 00:00:42,967
[slow footsteps]
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00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:50,767
♪♪
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[dog barking in distance]
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Hey!
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Hey!
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Hey!
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[barking continues]
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Hey!
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00:01:57,467 --> 00:01:58,568
Hey!
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[District Attorney]
Good afternoon, Mr. Ward.
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00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:00,701
[Delbert]
Afternoon.
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00:02:00,735 --> 00:02:02,734
[DA]
You live up on Johnson Road?
16
00:02:02,767 --> 00:02:04,167
[Delbert]
Yes.
17
00:02:04,201 --> 00:02:05,901
[DA]
You live there all your life?
18
00:02:05,935 --> 00:02:08,001
[Delbert]
Yes, lived there all my life.
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00:02:08,034 --> 00:02:10,500
[DA]
And you said you
had a few brothers.
20
00:02:10,533 --> 00:02:11,534
[Delbert]
Yes.
21
00:02:11,568 --> 00:02:13,034
[DA]
Roscoe, Lyman, William?
22
00:02:13,067 --> 00:02:14,234
[Delbert]
Yes.
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00:02:14,267 --> 00:02:15,935
[clears throat]
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00:02:15,968 --> 00:02:20,800
[DA]
Remember this question,
Mr. Ward, from the statement...
25
00:02:20,834 --> 00:02:22,801
"How do you feel
about his pain?"
26
00:02:22,835 --> 00:02:24,334
Remember that question
being asked?
27
00:02:24,368 --> 00:02:25,834
[Delbert]
Yes, I remember
that question being--
28
00:02:25,867 --> 00:02:26,967
[DA]
Remember the answer?
29
00:02:27,001 --> 00:02:28,501
"I felt that he should
go to the doctors.
30
00:02:28,534 --> 00:02:31,834
My feelings were,
that I felt Bill
would be better off
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00:02:31,867 --> 00:02:33,035
away from his pain,
32
00:02:33,068 --> 00:02:35,568
so he wouldn't be in pain
and hollering anymore."
33
00:02:35,601 --> 00:02:36,735
[Delbert]
Well, I remember that.
34
00:02:36,768 --> 00:02:38,001
[DA]
You gave that statement,
right?
35
00:02:38,034 --> 00:02:39,334
[Delbert]
Yes.
36
00:02:39,368 --> 00:02:40,634
[DA]
Remember this question?
37
00:02:40,668 --> 00:02:44,234
"After Bill went to sleep,
what did you decide to do?"
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00:02:44,267 --> 00:02:46,534
[Delbert]
Yes, I remember
that question.
39
00:02:46,568 --> 00:02:47,735
[DA]
Remember giving this answer?
40
00:02:47,768 --> 00:02:50,201
"I decided to put my hand
over his mouth.
41
00:02:50,234 --> 00:02:52,501
I reached around behind him
with my right hand
42
00:02:52,534 --> 00:02:54,134
and put it over his mouth.
43
00:02:54,167 --> 00:02:55,700
He struggled
for a little bit,
44
00:02:55,734 --> 00:02:57,402
but then stopped.
45
00:02:57,435 --> 00:03:00,800
I wanted to make sure that
Bill wasn't suffering
anymore, that he was dead."
46
00:03:00,834 --> 00:03:02,034
[Delbert]
Yes, I remember that a--
47
00:03:02,067 --> 00:03:03,401
[DA]
You remember giving
that answer?
48
00:03:03,434 --> 00:03:04,601
[Delbert]
I remember giving
that answer,
49
00:03:04,634 --> 00:03:06,401
after they showed me
how I done it down there
50
00:03:06,434 --> 00:03:08,401
and told me how I done it.
51
00:03:08,434 --> 00:03:09,401
[DA]
Remember this question?
52
00:03:09,434 --> 00:03:10,867
"How long was your hand
over his mouth?"
53
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:11,768
[Delbert]
Yes.
54
00:03:11,801 --> 00:03:13,201
[DA]
Answer, "About five minutes."
55
00:03:13,234 --> 00:03:14,301
[Delbert]
That's what they told me.
56
00:03:14,334 --> 00:03:16,002
[DA]
Th-That's the answer
you gave.
57
00:03:16,035 --> 00:03:18,700
[Delbert]
That's the answer they told
me, then I agreed with 'em.
58
00:03:18,734 --> 00:03:21,033
[cows mooing]
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00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:34,800
♪♪
60
00:03:34,834 --> 00:03:36,700
[horse snorting]
61
00:03:40,934 --> 00:03:43,200
[leaves rustling]
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00:03:47,034 --> 00:03:49,533
[birds chirping]
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00:03:52,734 --> 00:03:55,900
[car driving by]
64
00:03:58,334 --> 00:04:01,534
Today, Delbert Ward is living
in the Madison County Jail.
65
00:04:01,568 --> 00:04:04,167
Accused of killing
his brother and roommate.
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00:04:04,201 --> 00:04:07,468
State police report the body
of 64-year-old William Ward
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00:04:07,501 --> 00:04:10,401
was found in his bed
at 5:30 yesterday morning.
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00:04:10,434 --> 00:04:12,634
An autopsy showed
he had been suffocated.
69
00:04:12,668 --> 00:04:15,067
Police believe 59-year-old
Delbert Ward
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00:04:15,101 --> 00:04:16,501
committed the crime.
71
00:04:16,534 --> 00:04:18,234
Authorities don't yet know
a motive.
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00:04:18,267 --> 00:04:20,568
Everybody in Munnsville
knows the Ward boys.
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00:04:20,601 --> 00:04:22,801
Bill and Delbert used to ride
this green tractor
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00:04:22,835 --> 00:04:25,034
into town every day,
and their brothers,
75
00:04:25,067 --> 00:04:27,734
Lyman and Roscoe,
they'd take the red one.
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00:04:27,767 --> 00:04:28,801
Good evening, everyone.
77
00:04:28,835 --> 00:04:30,867
A man accused of killing
his brother out of mercy
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00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:32,067
is out of jail tonight.
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00:04:32,101 --> 00:04:33,735
As Christie Casciano
tells us,
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00:04:33,768 --> 00:04:36,034
an entire community stood
behind the dairy farmer
81
00:04:36,067 --> 00:04:38,735
and, for Delbert Ward,
that means freedom.
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00:04:38,768 --> 00:04:41,301
[Female Reporter]
The story of Delbert Ward
starts here.
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00:04:41,334 --> 00:04:44,134
Ward lived and farmed here
with his three brothers
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00:04:44,167 --> 00:04:45,701
for most of his life.
85
00:04:45,735 --> 00:04:48,901
But, life for Delbert Ward
changed on June sixth,
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00:04:48,935 --> 00:04:52,468
when his 64-year-old brother,
William died of suffocation.
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00:04:52,501 --> 00:04:54,834
Today, a judge set bail
for Delbert Ward
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00:04:54,867 --> 00:04:57,068
and Delbert's friends
posted bail.
89
00:04:57,102 --> 00:05:00,301
After three weeks,
Delbert Ward
was released from jail.
90
00:05:00,334 --> 00:05:01,567
[Male Reporter]
What are you gonna do first?
91
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,900
Goin' home to relax.
92
00:05:02,934 --> 00:05:05,500
So, Delbert Ward
has cleared his first hurdle
93
00:05:05,533 --> 00:05:06,701
with the law.
94
00:05:06,735 --> 00:05:09,368
Even though the battle
isn't over just yet,
95
00:05:09,401 --> 00:05:12,834
Delbert Ward says he has
faith in the justice system.
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00:05:12,867 --> 00:05:15,500
In Madison County,
Donna Speziale.
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00:05:15,533 --> 00:05:17,066
News Center 5.
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00:05:21,568 --> 00:05:22,834
[Male Interviewer]
Do you enjoy this work?
99
00:05:22,867 --> 00:05:24,767
Sure. Always done it.
100
00:05:26,834 --> 00:05:28,200
What do you like about it?
101
00:05:29,267 --> 00:05:30,867
Well, the smell of the hay.
102
00:05:34,034 --> 00:05:35,368
[stammering]
103
00:05:35,401 --> 00:05:37,034
If you was around here
when you first cut it,
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00:05:37,067 --> 00:05:39,101
you get the smell of it.
105
00:05:39,134 --> 00:05:40,467
It smells good.
106
00:05:47,835 --> 00:05:49,800
What are you
thinking about now, Delbert?
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00:05:49,834 --> 00:05:51,533
I ain't thinkin'.
108
00:05:53,034 --> 00:05:54,634
Just watchin' him.
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00:05:54,668 --> 00:05:56,301
So, if he breaks down,
I go help him,
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00:05:56,334 --> 00:05:57,600
if he breaks anything.
111
00:06:00,568 --> 00:06:01,867
How long is this gonna take?
112
00:06:01,900 --> 00:06:04,501
[crickets chirping]
113
00:06:04,534 --> 00:06:06,433
Gosh, it's hard to say.
114
00:06:09,834 --> 00:06:12,200
If you get it all
on one load or not.
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00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:18,567
He don't go too fast.
116
00:06:21,101 --> 00:06:22,800
Do you mind that we're
making a film about you?
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00:06:22,834 --> 00:06:24,133
No.
118
00:06:25,433 --> 00:06:27,066
Don't bother me.
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00:06:29,368 --> 00:06:31,368
He went natural.
120
00:06:31,401 --> 00:06:32,533
Bill died naturally?
121
00:06:32,567 --> 00:06:33,567
He, uh...
122
00:06:34,768 --> 00:06:38,234
He went natural,
'cause he lost
a lot of weight.
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00:06:38,267 --> 00:06:40,034
[goat bleating]
124
00:06:40,067 --> 00:06:43,001
And he always complained
that his feet botherin' him.
125
00:06:44,468 --> 00:06:46,400
He always walked lame.
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00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:50,400
Yup.
127
00:06:52,234 --> 00:06:55,167
[indistinct mumbling]
128
00:06:55,201 --> 00:06:57,233
'Cause he-he-he
got awful thin.
129
00:06:58,501 --> 00:07:00,734
He lost a lot of weight.
130
00:07:00,767 --> 00:07:02,101
How was he the week before?
131
00:07:02,134 --> 00:07:03,167
Huh?
132
00:07:03,201 --> 00:07:04,835
How was he the week before?
133
00:07:04,868 --> 00:07:06,800
The week before he died.
How was Bill?
134
00:07:06,834 --> 00:07:08,533
Not too hot.
135
00:07:11,867 --> 00:07:13,468
Well, you see,
back years ago,
136
00:07:13,501 --> 00:07:15,400
he got cut with a chainsaw.
137
00:07:16,434 --> 00:07:18,767
And that, that always
bothered him.
138
00:07:22,067 --> 00:07:23,533
What happened?
139
00:07:23,567 --> 00:07:25,033
Couldn't shut it off.
140
00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:27,967
With the chainsaw,
what happened?
141
00:07:28,001 --> 00:07:29,200
It cut him.
142
00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:32,134
What did the police
say to you
143
00:07:32,167 --> 00:07:34,334
when you were alone
in the room with them?
144
00:07:34,368 --> 00:07:36,234
- Do you remember?
- No.
145
00:07:36,267 --> 00:07:38,368
'Cause I was all shook up.
146
00:07:38,401 --> 00:07:39,867
Worse than I am now.
147
00:07:40,934 --> 00:07:42,734
- How was it then?
- Huh?
148
00:07:42,767 --> 00:07:43,768
How was it then?
149
00:07:43,801 --> 00:07:46,167
- Oh, I was bad down there.
- Why is that?
150
00:07:46,201 --> 00:07:47,301
Well, 'cause I'm nervous,
151
00:07:47,334 --> 00:07:49,300
[indistinct mumbling]
said not to bother me.
152
00:07:51,368 --> 00:07:53,968
- You were nervous.
- Yeah.
153
00:07:54,002 --> 00:07:56,700
Well, they said you
could have a stroke
or heart attack, you're gone.
154
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:00,800
Hm.
155
00:08:05,601 --> 00:08:07,667
We're not making you nervous,
are ya?
156
00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:09,001
Everything makes me nervous.
157
00:08:09,034 --> 00:08:11,067
'Cause always was,
ever since--
158
00:08:11,101 --> 00:08:12,867
[indistinct]
- Everything makes you nervous?
159
00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:13,900
Yep.
160
00:08:13,934 --> 00:08:15,734
Ever since you were
a little kid?
161
00:08:15,767 --> 00:08:17,134
Yep, always nervous.
162
00:08:17,167 --> 00:08:19,368
Why is-- do you
remember what was the...
163
00:08:19,401 --> 00:08:20,501
I don't know...
164
00:08:20,534 --> 00:08:22,034
'Cause I was probably
born to be nervous.
165
00:08:22,067 --> 00:08:23,167
You were born to be nervous?
166
00:08:23,201 --> 00:08:25,035
Probably.
167
00:08:25,068 --> 00:08:29,267
I ain't the only ones
nervous, there's lot of guys
around here's nervous.
168
00:08:29,301 --> 00:08:30,968
Like, who else is nervous?
169
00:08:31,002 --> 00:08:33,468
Spend [indistinct]
these farmers,
you get nervous.
170
00:08:33,501 --> 00:08:34,567
What makes you nervous?
171
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:35,767
Me?
172
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,134
I don't know,
always been nervous.
173
00:08:38,167 --> 00:08:39,500
All my life.
174
00:08:40,834 --> 00:08:42,700
So, that's what I'm gonna do.
175
00:08:42,734 --> 00:08:44,333
♪♪
176
00:08:45,267 --> 00:08:47,433
[indistinct mumbling]
177
00:09:21,867 --> 00:09:24,066
[dog barking in distance]
178
00:09:39,101 --> 00:09:40,634
When we were down
in the courthouse,
179
00:09:40,668 --> 00:09:43,001
we, we went down
just to look.
180
00:09:43,034 --> 00:09:45,867
Didn't have any idea
what we were getting into.
181
00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:47,568
And when they posted it,
182
00:09:47,601 --> 00:09:52,534
the judge said that he would
let him out on $10,000 bail.
183
00:09:52,568 --> 00:09:54,034
And we went down,
I went down,
184
00:09:54,067 --> 00:09:55,967
she sat in a seat up there
and I went down
185
00:09:56,001 --> 00:09:58,534
where the lawyer was
explaining it to us,
186
00:09:58,568 --> 00:10:00,167
'cause we're
a bunch of dummies, you know,
187
00:10:00,201 --> 00:10:03,167
we didn't know,
understand the procedure.
188
00:10:03,201 --> 00:10:06,401
And the lawyer said,
we gotta scrape up $10,000,
189
00:10:06,434 --> 00:10:08,167
so I went back
to where she sat
190
00:10:08,201 --> 00:10:10,034
and I said, "Mom," I said,
191
00:10:10,067 --> 00:10:11,368
"you got your checkbook
with you?"
192
00:10:11,401 --> 00:10:13,401
- Yep.
- And she says, "Yes."
193
00:10:13,434 --> 00:10:18,401
And I said, "Jesus Christ,
make out a check
for a thousand dollars."
194
00:10:18,434 --> 00:10:20,334
She says, "What for?"
195
00:10:20,368 --> 00:10:22,001
And I says...
196
00:10:22,034 --> 00:10:23,401
"They're doin' a lot of
talkin' down there,
197
00:10:23,434 --> 00:10:26,134
they gotta scrape up $10,000
and nobody...
198
00:10:26,167 --> 00:10:28,067
They're doin' a lot of
iffin' and andin',
199
00:10:28,101 --> 00:10:29,967
but no money."
200
00:10:30,001 --> 00:10:32,468
So, I took down the check,
hand to Charlie.
201
00:10:32,501 --> 00:10:36,834
I said, "Charlie, here's
a start for the 10,000."
202
00:10:36,867 --> 00:10:38,468
It touched the ball off.
203
00:10:38,501 --> 00:10:40,168
Hell, we had 10,000
inside of
204
00:10:40,202 --> 00:10:41,601
That's how they got our
picture.
- ...ten, fifteen minutes.
205
00:10:41,634 --> 00:10:44,568
Hell, it wouldn't hurt any
more if it'd been my kid.
206
00:10:44,601 --> 00:10:46,234
- Because...
- You wouldn't believe it.
207
00:10:46,267 --> 00:10:48,001
W-W-We knew that...
208
00:10:48,034 --> 00:10:50,468
The kid, you know, we've
known him all our life.
209
00:10:50,501 --> 00:10:52,167
He isn't a kid, but he's
younger than we are.
210
00:10:52,201 --> 00:10:55,067
Well, Christ,
he's 60 years old,
211
00:10:55,101 --> 00:10:56,633
A lot younger, a lot younger.
- ...and we're 80.
212
00:10:56,667 --> 00:10:57,868
Hell of a lot of difference.
213
00:10:57,901 --> 00:10:59,001
And after they
got his whiskers off,
he looked younger.
214
00:10:59,034 --> 00:11:00,368
Yeah.
215
00:11:00,401 --> 00:11:03,034
He looked like Jesus Christ
when they when they
brought him in.
216
00:11:03,067 --> 00:11:04,001
I imagine he's
got 'em on again.
217
00:11:04,034 --> 00:11:04,734
Did you see him
before he had his whiskers?
218
00:11:04,767 --> 00:11:05,734
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
219
00:11:05,767 --> 00:11:08,167
He made me think of
Jesus Christ all of a...
220
00:11:08,201 --> 00:11:10,234
i-in a way, you know.
221
00:11:10,267 --> 00:11:12,501
Not that he was
that big a saint,
222
00:11:12,534 --> 00:11:14,900
or anything,
you know, but, uh,
223
00:11:14,934 --> 00:11:16,900
he was never any hell raiser.
224
00:11:16,934 --> 00:11:18,768
[crickets chirping]
225
00:11:18,801 --> 00:11:22,468
The DA, I think, he wants to
be elected again next term.
226
00:11:22,501 --> 00:11:23,667
[Mr. Bishopp]
Well, I'll tell you
something...
227
00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:25,067
And this is...
228
00:11:25,101 --> 00:11:27,501
They're just trying
to blow this thing way up.
229
00:11:27,534 --> 00:11:29,801
It's a, it's a political
thing, that's what it is.
230
00:11:29,835 --> 00:11:32,134
It's somebody to make a big
name out of it.
231
00:11:32,167 --> 00:11:34,900
They pick on somebody like
this, you know, that, uh,
232
00:11:34,934 --> 00:11:36,668
nobody'd think
anything about it, you know.
233
00:11:36,701 --> 00:11:38,567
Yeah.
- Well, they figured
they'd put him away.
234
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:39,700
Sure.
235
00:11:39,734 --> 00:11:40,967
Put him away, and then...
236
00:11:41,001 --> 00:11:43,734
and, put the other two
in a home somewhere
237
00:11:43,767 --> 00:11:44,834
and that'd be it, you know.
238
00:11:44,867 --> 00:11:46,168
Forget about 'em.
- Yeah.
239
00:11:46,202 --> 00:11:48,401
[Mrs. Landers]
But don't you think
that Bill really just died
240
00:11:48,434 --> 00:11:50,468
because he was sick?
241
00:11:50,501 --> 00:11:55,167
Lyman said, at night, Bill...
was choking and coughing.
242
00:11:55,201 --> 00:11:56,167
Yeah.
243
00:11:56,201 --> 00:11:57,467
He was coughing.
He was coughing bad.
244
00:11:57,500 --> 00:11:58,534
Yeah.
245
00:11:58,568 --> 00:12:00,967
Yes, but if somebody put
their hand over your mouth,
246
00:12:01,001 --> 00:12:02,735
would you fight him
a little bit?
247
00:12:02,768 --> 00:12:05,834
Why, Bill, Bill was a lot
stronger than Delbert.
248
00:12:05,867 --> 00:12:07,501
I think so, too.
249
00:12:07,534 --> 00:12:09,634
- Delbert couldn't do that!
- Art went up there...
250
00:12:09,668 --> 00:12:10,633
Not if Bill
didn't want him to.
251
00:12:10,667 --> 00:12:11,668
There's no possible way.
252
00:12:11,701 --> 00:12:13,800
They said he'd been dead
since midnight.
253
00:12:13,834 --> 00:12:14,801
That's right.
254
00:12:14,835 --> 00:12:17,701
And, and he, he's gonna
kill his own brother
255
00:12:17,735 --> 00:12:19,401
and then sleep side of him
the rest of the night
256
00:12:19,434 --> 00:12:20,401
until five o'clock
in the morning?
257
00:12:20,434 --> 00:12:22,067
That's, that's right!
That's right.
258
00:12:22,101 --> 00:12:24,066
It's just unbelievable what...
259
00:12:25,267 --> 00:12:26,501
what they're trying to pull
260
00:12:26,534 --> 00:12:27,967
and what they're
trying to do.
261
00:12:28,001 --> 00:12:30,300
[dog barking]
262
00:12:30,333 --> 00:12:34,100
♪♪
263
00:12:38,068 --> 00:12:41,301
[Interviewer]
Delbert, what happened
the morning Bill died?
264
00:12:41,334 --> 00:12:43,735
[Delbert]
Well, I got up,
I went outdoors,
265
00:12:43,768 --> 00:12:47,234
I come back in to put
my boots or shoes on.
266
00:12:47,267 --> 00:12:49,034
I hollered at him,
he didn't answer me,
267
00:12:49,067 --> 00:12:51,700
and I went in there,
and that's... where he laid.
268
00:12:53,201 --> 00:12:54,667
He was gone.
269
00:12:57,167 --> 00:12:58,367
He died, so...
270
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,700
I got Roscoe up.
271
00:13:00,734 --> 00:13:02,368
I just looked at him.
272
00:13:02,401 --> 00:13:03,368
I didn't touch him
or nothing,
273
00:13:03,401 --> 00:13:05,767
just looked at him,
I see he was gone.
274
00:13:08,935 --> 00:13:10,500
[Interviewer]
Did he have a pillow
over his head?
275
00:13:10,533 --> 00:13:12,900
No!
Did not!
276
00:13:14,735 --> 00:13:16,368
Didn't have nothing,
only a blanket.
277
00:13:16,401 --> 00:13:18,834
It come up to
about here on him.
278
00:13:18,867 --> 00:13:20,767
He had a pillow
under his head.
279
00:13:22,735 --> 00:13:25,001
Laying on it,
laid his head on it,
280
00:13:25,034 --> 00:13:26,900
and he had one arm out
281
00:13:26,934 --> 00:13:29,368
like, he laid like that,
282
00:13:29,401 --> 00:13:31,001
just as though
he was sleeping.
283
00:13:35,401 --> 00:13:37,367
I can tell
when a person is dead.
284
00:13:39,034 --> 00:13:41,500
[chuckling]
You could, too.
285
00:13:43,102 --> 00:13:45,134
I didn't know what was the
matter 'til I got up there,
286
00:13:45,167 --> 00:13:46,501
and I see he was dead.
287
00:13:46,534 --> 00:13:49,301
Took hold of his arm,
his arm was flimsy.
288
00:13:49,334 --> 00:13:51,401
It wasn't stiff,
but it was flimsy.
289
00:13:51,434 --> 00:13:54,568
Kind of cool, he wasn't cold,
but he was cool.
290
00:13:54,601 --> 00:13:56,500
You could tell
that his arm was cold.
291
00:13:56,533 --> 00:13:57,834
It was cool.
292
00:13:57,867 --> 00:13:59,300
I didn't say cold.
Cool.
293
00:14:00,267 --> 00:14:02,200
Shit, I don't think
he's been dead too long.
294
00:14:04,201 --> 00:14:05,934
Th-That was six o'clock.
295
00:14:08,167 --> 00:14:11,568
[John Teeple]
The, um, EMT people arrived,
296
00:14:11,601 --> 00:14:13,800
and it's kind of
interesting in...
297
00:14:13,834 --> 00:14:16,134
a country setting like this,
298
00:14:16,167 --> 00:14:17,868
if the EMT comes,
299
00:14:17,901 --> 00:14:20,501
everybody in the Volunteer
Fire Department shows up,
300
00:14:20,534 --> 00:14:22,900
all of whom knew
the boys of course.
301
00:14:22,934 --> 00:14:25,668
I hate to call 'em "boys."
It's...
302
00:14:25,701 --> 00:14:29,167
They're known that way
i-in the county, but...
303
00:14:29,201 --> 00:14:31,967
and I'm-I'm pretty sure they
don't think it's a put down,
304
00:14:32,001 --> 00:14:33,700
but it feels like one to me.
305
00:14:33,734 --> 00:14:36,001
The morning that Bill died,
306
00:14:36,034 --> 00:14:39,368
um, John had called me,
307
00:14:39,401 --> 00:14:41,401
and I went right over
308
00:14:41,434 --> 00:14:46,134
and I was there like ten
minutes after he'd called me.
309
00:14:46,167 --> 00:14:48,034
And I said to Delbert,
310
00:14:48,067 --> 00:14:49,201
"Would you like John and I,
311
00:14:49,234 --> 00:14:50,901
what would you like
John and I to do?
312
00:14:50,935 --> 00:14:54,067
Would you like us
to do the chores here
this morning for ya?
313
00:14:54,101 --> 00:14:56,400
Help you out this morning
or something?"
314
00:14:56,433 --> 00:14:58,301
And Delbert says,
315
00:14:58,334 --> 00:15:02,001
"I would like you and John
to go get a dark suit
316
00:15:02,034 --> 00:15:04,433
and a while shirt and a tie...
317
00:15:06,001 --> 00:15:07,167
for Bill."
318
00:15:07,201 --> 00:15:09,233
[crickets chirping]
319
00:15:18,101 --> 00:15:19,400
And he cried.
320
00:15:21,167 --> 00:15:22,468
After they left that morning,
321
00:15:22,501 --> 00:15:25,967
the police were certain
it was a natural death.
322
00:15:26,001 --> 00:15:28,433
No question
in-in their mind.
323
00:15:28,467 --> 00:15:29,867
[sniffling]
324
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,368
What happened later,
apparently,
325
00:15:32,401 --> 00:15:34,800
is that the, uh...
326
00:15:34,834 --> 00:15:37,401
they did an autopsy.
327
00:15:37,434 --> 00:15:39,201
They did it
in about four hours,
328
00:15:39,234 --> 00:15:40,368
which, at least,
I've been told,
329
00:15:40,401 --> 00:15:44,502
is really not long enough
for a, a thorough autopsy.
330
00:15:44,535 --> 00:15:48,568
And I judge the first thing
they found that was really
suspicious, they stopped,
331
00:15:48,601 --> 00:15:50,735
so the police
came out here again,
332
00:15:50,768 --> 00:15:53,201
and took all three brothers
down to the barracks
333
00:15:53,234 --> 00:15:55,867
and questioned them,
and held Delbert,
334
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:57,201
who's confessed.
335
00:15:57,234 --> 00:15:58,701
[dogs barking]
336
00:15:58,735 --> 00:16:00,201
[Interviewer]
What happened that night
that they were af--
337
00:16:00,234 --> 00:16:03,401
all those men in uniforms
were asking you questions?
338
00:16:03,434 --> 00:16:04,834
What happened that night?
339
00:16:04,867 --> 00:16:06,167
Huh?
340
00:16:06,201 --> 00:16:07,967
The night all those men
were asking you questions,
341
00:16:08,001 --> 00:16:09,200
what happened that night?
342
00:16:10,668 --> 00:16:12,401
You said you were in,
in with the police,
343
00:16:12,434 --> 00:16:14,066
what happened that night?
344
00:16:15,067 --> 00:16:17,200
What kind of questions
did they ask you?
345
00:16:19,368 --> 00:16:22,034
Well, they wanted to know
if you heard any arguments,
346
00:16:22,067 --> 00:16:24,234
any noise,
347
00:16:24,267 --> 00:16:26,067
and they wanted to know
if we heard any
348
00:16:26,101 --> 00:16:29,401
guns or rifles
or anything go off.
349
00:16:29,434 --> 00:16:30,867
I told them, "No."
350
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:33,334
Do you think Delbert
killed Bill?
351
00:16:33,368 --> 00:16:35,533
That's what they figured,
but...
352
00:16:36,567 --> 00:16:37,834
don't nobody believe it.
353
00:16:37,867 --> 00:16:38,967
Just ain't nothing to it.
354
00:16:40,034 --> 00:16:44,233
[stammering]
But everybody I talk to
tells it.
355
00:16:45,601 --> 00:16:47,900
What else, what else
did they ask you that night?
356
00:16:47,934 --> 00:16:49,867
Did they make you
sign something?
357
00:16:51,501 --> 00:16:53,167
Did you have to sign a paper?
358
00:16:53,201 --> 00:16:55,134
Just your name.
359
00:16:55,167 --> 00:16:57,201
I wouldn't sign nothin',
but just my name.
360
00:16:57,234 --> 00:16:58,300
They asked you
to sign your name?
361
00:16:58,333 --> 00:16:59,134
Yep.
362
00:16:59,167 --> 00:17:00,900
Did you read what you signed?
363
00:17:02,934 --> 00:17:04,867
Yes... it was...
364
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,500
'bout, 'bout the murder
and stuff.
365
00:17:09,334 --> 00:17:11,201
Brother Bill, yeah, that's...
366
00:17:11,234 --> 00:17:12,401
They had that on there.
367
00:17:12,434 --> 00:17:14,800
[Delbert]
You didn't read no papers
down there.
368
00:17:14,834 --> 00:17:16,201
Not right out loud.
369
00:17:16,234 --> 00:17:17,967
One cop did.
370
00:17:18,001 --> 00:17:19,067
He says,
"There anything to it?"
371
00:17:19,101 --> 00:17:20,800
I said, "No."
372
00:17:20,834 --> 00:17:22,501
Delbert, can Roscoe read?
373
00:17:22,534 --> 00:17:24,334
Not very good, I don't think.
374
00:17:24,368 --> 00:17:25,633
I don't think he read it.
375
00:17:26,534 --> 00:17:30,201
Oh, yeah.
They was awful quizzy, but...
376
00:17:30,234 --> 00:17:31,900
I didn't know
nothing about it.
377
00:17:32,868 --> 00:17:34,834
What do you think's
gonna happen now?
378
00:17:37,334 --> 00:17:39,500
Well, they figured
Delbert killed him.
379
00:17:41,401 --> 00:17:43,500
There was nothin' to it.
380
00:17:43,533 --> 00:17:44,767
Not true?
381
00:17:46,767 --> 00:17:48,934
No, not true.
382
00:17:48,967 --> 00:17:50,433
It's not true.
383
00:17:53,734 --> 00:17:56,533
Just as I said,
and always will,
384
00:17:56,567 --> 00:17:58,200
he went on his own.
385
00:18:02,035 --> 00:18:04,901
[Captain Loszynski]
After, uh, doing the
preliminary investigation,
386
00:18:04,935 --> 00:18:08,468
which was in the early
morning hours of June sixth,
387
00:18:08,501 --> 00:18:12,735
uh, I received a phone call
at approximately 5:30 PM
388
00:18:12,768 --> 00:18:16,034
from the Medical Examiner's
office in Syracuse
389
00:18:16,067 --> 00:18:18,201
regarding the cause
and manner of death
390
00:18:18,234 --> 00:18:20,034
of William Ward.
391
00:18:20,067 --> 00:18:23,135
Uh, the call was from
Doctor Germaniuk,
392
00:18:23,168 --> 00:18:27,334
in which he explained
that he had discovered
certain medical evidence
393
00:18:27,368 --> 00:18:31,801
which suggest that the death
was of suspicious origin,
394
00:18:31,835 --> 00:18:35,501
and that we should proceed
with a investigation, uh,
395
00:18:35,534 --> 00:18:37,834
regarding the circumstances
396
00:18:37,867 --> 00:18:41,234
uh, of William Ward's,
uh, death.
397
00:18:41,267 --> 00:18:43,567
[dog barking in distance]
398
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,900
[ominous music ♪]
399
00:18:50,135 --> 00:18:52,500
[District Attorney]
You telling us you told the
truth to this jury today?
400
00:18:52,533 --> 00:18:54,201
[Delbert]
Yes.
401
00:18:54,234 --> 00:18:56,567
I'm telling you,
I told the truth.
402
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,001
You telling us...
403
00:18:59,034 --> 00:19:00,167
that you didn't kill
your brother?
404
00:19:00,201 --> 00:19:01,233
I didn't kill him.
405
00:19:02,601 --> 00:19:04,800
Sir, in your statement,
you admit to killing
your brother.
406
00:19:04,834 --> 00:19:05,967
I know I did,
407
00:19:06,001 --> 00:19:07,468
but I didn't know
what I was saying.
408
00:19:07,501 --> 00:19:10,668
Sir, this was
your best friend,
409
00:19:10,701 --> 00:19:13,134
and you told the police that
night that you killed him.
410
00:19:13,167 --> 00:19:15,401
Yes, I told the police that,
that night.
411
00:19:15,434 --> 00:19:17,301
That was the truth that night
when you told them?
412
00:19:17,334 --> 00:19:19,001
No, 'cause it
wasn't really the truth
413
00:19:19,034 --> 00:19:20,701
'cause I didn't know
what I was sayin'.
414
00:19:20,735 --> 00:19:22,734
You know the difference
between a truth and a lie,
415
00:19:22,767 --> 00:19:23,800
don't you?
416
00:19:25,034 --> 00:19:26,934
Maybe, maybe not.
417
00:19:27,767 --> 00:19:31,367
[wooden leg squeaking]
418
00:19:51,701 --> 00:19:53,734
There's a lot of history
in this place.
419
00:19:59,267 --> 00:20:02,400
I seen some of the kids
I grew up with on my way in.
420
00:20:08,167 --> 00:20:09,900
[Interviewer]
Do you know where it is?
421
00:20:09,934 --> 00:20:11,667
No, not for sure.
422
00:20:12,601 --> 00:20:15,234
It's, it's a wooden one,
though, right?
423
00:20:15,267 --> 00:20:17,001
We heard it's a wooden heart.
424
00:20:17,034 --> 00:20:19,033
[birds chirping]
425
00:20:22,434 --> 00:20:26,033
[wooden leg squeaking]
426
00:20:28,768 --> 00:20:31,066
Christ, there's a lot
of people here I know.
427
00:20:33,767 --> 00:20:35,834
That one right there
must be it.
428
00:20:42,834 --> 00:20:44,067
People shouldn't
be treated that way
429
00:20:44,101 --> 00:20:45,534
just 'cause they're stupid.
430
00:20:45,568 --> 00:20:47,735
Not really stupid,
uneducated.
431
00:20:47,768 --> 00:20:49,701
Now, any investigator
in his right mind,
432
00:20:49,735 --> 00:20:52,734
when they started
interrogating these boys
433
00:20:52,767 --> 00:20:54,001
shoulda known
434
00:20:55,067 --> 00:20:57,868
that they didn't have the
schoolin' and the stuff
435
00:20:57,901 --> 00:21:01,467
to enable them to do anything
without an attorney.
436
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:02,767
Shoulda known it.
437
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,367
They're intelligent people,
438
00:21:06,501 --> 00:21:10,067
but yet, they questioned them
all without an attorney,
439
00:21:10,101 --> 00:21:12,368
and Delbert, to this day,
don't know what the hell
440
00:21:12,401 --> 00:21:14,033
"to waive his rights" means.
441
00:21:16,368 --> 00:21:17,900
It's just some words to him.
442
00:21:17,934 --> 00:21:19,368
I said,
"What did you waive Delbert?"
443
00:21:19,401 --> 00:21:20,534
I ask him straight out.
444
00:21:20,568 --> 00:21:22,234
I said, "when you did that?"
445
00:21:22,267 --> 00:21:23,567
"I don't know."
446
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,568
That's his answer.
447
00:21:25,601 --> 00:21:27,368
I asked him again last week,
I says,
448
00:21:27,401 --> 00:21:29,234
"What did you waive
when you waived your rights?"
449
00:21:29,267 --> 00:21:30,667
He still don't know.
450
00:21:31,867 --> 00:21:33,401
He waived his rights,
but he don't know
451
00:21:33,434 --> 00:21:35,134
what the hell he waived.
452
00:21:35,167 --> 00:21:37,001
That might've been somebody
walkin' down the street
453
00:21:37,034 --> 00:21:38,867
he was wavin' at.
454
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:40,701
That's the truth.
455
00:21:40,735 --> 00:21:43,001
I mean,
it's foolish as it sounds,
456
00:21:43,034 --> 00:21:44,967
it's-it's
the God's honest truth.
457
00:21:45,934 --> 00:21:49,468
So, how can you charge
somebody like that?
458
00:21:49,501 --> 00:21:51,401
How could you took the
statement to begin with
459
00:21:51,434 --> 00:21:54,134
from him like that without
having a lawyer present?
460
00:21:54,167 --> 00:21:55,501
The confession of Delbert,
461
00:21:55,534 --> 00:21:58,401
uh, which was obtained here
at the barracks,
462
00:21:58,434 --> 00:22:01,868
um, consisted upon, or
consisted of, uh,
463
00:22:01,901 --> 00:22:04,667
Delbert telling
State Police investigators
464
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:06,701
that, uh...
465
00:22:06,735 --> 00:22:10,634
uh, he had thought about,
um, killing William,
466
00:22:10,668 --> 00:22:14,568
uh, because of, uh, the
suffering that he had, uh,
467
00:22:14,601 --> 00:22:16,667
observed Wi-William
going through
468
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:18,534
over the last several months,
469
00:22:18,568 --> 00:22:22,735
uh, and he focused in
on extreme headaches
470
00:22:22,768 --> 00:22:25,633
and stomach problems, and he
had a problem with his foot
471
00:22:25,667 --> 00:22:27,967
that the cow had stepped on,
472
00:22:28,001 --> 00:22:31,167
and he based, basically,
his-his criminal conduct,
473
00:22:31,201 --> 00:22:32,533
in killing William,
474
00:22:32,567 --> 00:22:34,534
on the fact that, uh,
475
00:22:34,568 --> 00:22:36,734
he felt William
was going through, uh,
476
00:22:36,767 --> 00:22:38,734
an extreme amount of pain,
477
00:22:38,767 --> 00:22:42,501
and that, uh,
he felt that, uh,
478
00:22:42,534 --> 00:22:44,667
he would kill his brother for
these reasons.
479
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:47,501
[wind blowing]
480
00:22:47,534 --> 00:22:50,467
[Interviewer]
Roscoe, what's your
best memory of Bill?
481
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:51,533
Roscoe?
482
00:22:51,567 --> 00:22:52,534
Huh?
483
00:22:52,568 --> 00:22:54,567
What's your
best memory of Bill?
484
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:55,534
Huh?
485
00:22:55,568 --> 00:22:57,734
What's your
best memory of Bill?
486
00:23:00,333 --> 00:23:02,067
Best band?
487
00:23:02,101 --> 00:23:03,334
[laughing]
488
00:23:03,368 --> 00:23:04,334
I didn't hear ya, now.
489
00:23:04,368 --> 00:23:05,534
[Delbert]
He don't hear you.
490
00:23:05,568 --> 00:23:07,067
[Lyman]
He can't hear nothing.
491
00:23:07,101 --> 00:23:08,834
Huh?
492
00:23:08,867 --> 00:23:09,867
[Interviewer]
I-I didn't understand.
493
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:11,200
What was your
best memory of him?
494
00:23:11,233 --> 00:23:12,034
Huh?
495
00:23:12,067 --> 00:23:12,633
What's your...
496
00:23:13,868 --> 00:23:16,167
[laughing]
It's okay if you're
on the film, Joe.
497
00:23:16,201 --> 00:23:17,534
[Interviewer, Joe]
I-I don't wanna be
in the film.
498
00:23:17,568 --> 00:23:19,468
I'm gonna stay here,
and you stay here, okay?
499
00:23:19,501 --> 00:23:21,667
And just tell me what your
best memory of Bill is.
500
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:22,867
The best memory?
501
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:24,700
Well, we went to Oneida.
502
00:23:25,368 --> 00:23:26,800
We got our groceries.
503
00:23:27,868 --> 00:23:31,100
He got his stuff he wanted
for to fix his water.
504
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:35,034
Done all his chores,
505
00:23:35,067 --> 00:23:37,468
had supper,
506
00:23:37,501 --> 00:23:38,735
and went to bed about,
507
00:23:38,768 --> 00:23:42,201
about nine o'clock,
wasn't it, Delbert?
508
00:23:42,234 --> 00:23:43,834
Around nine o'clock
or a little after,
509
00:23:43,867 --> 00:23:46,034
[metal jangling]
510
00:23:46,067 --> 00:23:47,834
and I thought I was gonna
see him the next morning,
511
00:23:47,867 --> 00:23:48,867
and I didn't.
512
00:23:51,534 --> 00:23:52,734
How'd you feel about that?
513
00:23:52,767 --> 00:23:54,033
Bad.
514
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:57,266
'Cause he's gone.
515
00:23:59,267 --> 00:24:00,501
If somebody put hands,
516
00:24:00,534 --> 00:24:01,835
put their hands
over his mouth,
517
00:24:01,868 --> 00:24:04,033
he'd have to have marks
on him wouldn't he?
518
00:24:07,701 --> 00:24:09,700
And he didn't have
no marks on him.
519
00:24:09,734 --> 00:24:11,567
[crickets chirping]
520
00:24:12,935 --> 00:24:14,834
[Interviewer]
They said there was
a pillow over his face.
521
00:24:14,867 --> 00:24:16,568
Well, they put that
over there.
522
00:24:16,601 --> 00:24:18,234
Who put the pillow over him?
523
00:24:18,267 --> 00:24:20,001
The police, I think.
524
00:24:20,034 --> 00:24:21,234
[cat mewing]
525
00:24:21,267 --> 00:24:22,634
'Cause the...
526
00:24:22,668 --> 00:24:25,401
the first time I,
they show me his pictures,
527
00:24:25,434 --> 00:24:28,801
he laid just the way I found
him, with nothing over him.
528
00:24:28,835 --> 00:24:32,134
Then they took me down there
to the courthouse again,
529
00:24:32,167 --> 00:24:33,734
and that's when they
showed him with a...
530
00:24:33,767 --> 00:24:36,001
pillow over, over his face.
531
00:24:37,968 --> 00:24:40,634
Why would the police put
a pillow over Bill's face?
532
00:24:40,668 --> 00:24:43,934
Well, 'cause they want
this right here.
533
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:49,734
Right here.
534
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,367
They want this land.
535
00:24:53,434 --> 00:24:56,568
We know, for a fact, that
two of the State Troopers
536
00:24:56,601 --> 00:24:59,201
who interviewed
a neighbor of Delbert's,
537
00:24:59,234 --> 00:25:01,301
in addition
to asking about the case,
538
00:25:01,334 --> 00:25:04,167
asked if the neighbor was
willing to sell his property.
539
00:25:04,201 --> 00:25:05,835
Now, you've gotta remember
540
00:25:05,868 --> 00:25:08,501
that we're talking about
an area in Madison County
541
00:25:08,534 --> 00:25:10,568
that's right on
the, the edge of becoming
542
00:25:10,601 --> 00:25:13,234
a very, very suburban type
of an area,
543
00:25:13,267 --> 00:25:15,900
so that these farms
a-are worth a lot of money
544
00:25:15,934 --> 00:25:17,400
to a developer.
545
00:25:17,433 --> 00:25:19,167
If it's true...
546
00:25:19,201 --> 00:25:21,168
it's one of the most
disgusting things
547
00:25:21,202 --> 00:25:25,201
that I've seen as a,
as an attorney
in-in 13 or 14 years.
548
00:25:25,234 --> 00:25:29,301
To think that somebody, uh,
for purely monetary gain,
549
00:25:29,334 --> 00:25:34,534
would, uh, convince somebody
t-t-to write a confession,
550
00:25:34,568 --> 00:25:37,967
or even worse,
put words into his mouth.
551
00:25:38,001 --> 00:25:39,735
I cannot fathom
552
00:25:39,768 --> 00:25:43,501
that there would be any
reason whatsoever for anybody
553
00:25:43,534 --> 00:25:45,668
to want to have
acquired that land,
554
00:25:45,701 --> 00:25:49,868
other than another farmer
to use it as farm land.
555
00:25:49,901 --> 00:25:53,534
Uh, and to suggest that any
of the State Police officers
556
00:25:53,568 --> 00:25:55,701
involved in the investigation
557
00:25:55,735 --> 00:25:57,834
would even consider doing
something like that
558
00:25:57,867 --> 00:25:59,533
is just ludicrous.
559
00:25:59,567 --> 00:26:00,967
♪♪
560
00:26:10,801 --> 00:26:12,800
[Jerry Reid]
If anybody ever
grew up on a farm,
561
00:26:12,834 --> 00:26:14,968
when a cow has a calf,
562
00:26:15,002 --> 00:26:18,735
a lot of times, they get
paralyzed in their backsides,
563
00:26:18,768 --> 00:26:20,867
and they have trouble
gettin' up,
564
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:22,568
and if you don't make 'em
get up,
565
00:26:22,601 --> 00:26:26,501
they can't clean themselves
of afterbirth.
566
00:26:26,534 --> 00:26:28,501
So, it's a very common
practice
567
00:26:28,534 --> 00:26:31,667
amongst any and all farmers,
568
00:26:33,002 --> 00:26:36,001
to hold the nostrils
and the mouth of a cow
that's down,
569
00:26:36,034 --> 00:26:37,567
and once she gets
short of breath,
570
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,800
she'll just jump right up,
571
00:26:38,834 --> 00:26:40,300
and she'll be
healthy as ever.
572
00:26:41,601 --> 00:26:44,166
I still feel,
from the beginning,
573
00:26:45,501 --> 00:26:47,701
that that's all
that Delbert was trying to do
574
00:26:47,735 --> 00:26:50,134
was to treat his brother
like a cow
575
00:26:50,167 --> 00:26:51,433
because that's all he knew.
576
00:26:52,601 --> 00:26:55,334
He was just trying to make
him get up and go, I think.
577
00:26:55,368 --> 00:27:00,368
I have no qualms in my mind,
he died in his sleep.
578
00:27:00,401 --> 00:27:03,134
For these guys, time stopped...
579
00:27:03,167 --> 00:27:05,001
back in the days
when they were growing up.
580
00:27:05,034 --> 00:27:06,534
They were poor.
581
00:27:06,568 --> 00:27:10,501
Uh, if they had an animal
in pain...
582
00:27:10,534 --> 00:27:12,501
the animal,
they wouldn't let
the animal suffer,
583
00:27:12,534 --> 00:27:13,801
they'd put it
out of its misery.
584
00:27:13,835 --> 00:27:16,233
That's the type of thing,
that's the way they think,
585
00:27:16,266 --> 00:27:17,401
and...
586
00:27:17,434 --> 00:27:20,001
for two brothers who loved
each other like they did,
587
00:27:20,034 --> 00:27:21,133
to...
588
00:27:21,934 --> 00:27:24,234
for one to watch
the other in pain,
589
00:27:24,267 --> 00:27:27,634
day after day after day, uh...
590
00:27:27,668 --> 00:27:30,900
you know, it's very likely
that the man, you know,
591
00:27:30,934 --> 00:27:33,835
they agreed between
themselves, I'm sure,
592
00:27:33,868 --> 00:27:36,468
and Delbert didn't wanna see
him suffer anymore,
593
00:27:36,501 --> 00:27:37,667
and he took his life.
594
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:39,100
♪♪
595
00:27:54,002 --> 00:27:55,201
[Interviewer]
You looking forward
to tonight?
596
00:27:55,234 --> 00:27:56,234
[Roscoe]
Yeah.
597
00:27:56,267 --> 00:27:57,234
You gonna dance?
598
00:27:57,267 --> 00:27:58,533
I'm gonna dance.
Are you gonna dance?
599
00:27:58,567 --> 00:27:59,600
Yeah.
600
00:27:59,633 --> 00:28:00,800
Did you get a shave today?
601
00:28:00,834 --> 00:28:01,734
Who, me?
602
00:28:01,767 --> 00:28:03,533
Yeah.
I cut 'em off.
603
00:28:03,567 --> 00:28:04,700
Why?
604
00:28:04,734 --> 00:28:06,001
For tonight.
605
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:08,500
They got a little too long.
606
00:28:08,533 --> 00:28:09,533
What got too long?
607
00:28:09,567 --> 00:28:10,834
Whiskers.
608
00:28:10,867 --> 00:28:11,967
So, you cut 'em off?
609
00:28:12,001 --> 00:28:13,034
I did.
610
00:28:13,067 --> 00:28:14,633
I didn't get 'em all,
but I got,
611
00:28:14,667 --> 00:28:16,167
I got the most of 'em.
612
00:28:16,201 --> 00:28:17,367
♪♪
613
00:28:25,934 --> 00:28:27,266
[Roscoe]
Hi!
614
00:28:28,034 --> 00:28:29,634
[Woman]
You're Lyman.
615
00:28:29,668 --> 00:28:31,334
Lyman's right out there,
he's comin'.
616
00:28:31,368 --> 00:28:32,734
- Oh, you're Roscoe.
- Right.
617
00:28:32,767 --> 00:28:34,167
- Want me to help ya?
- No.
618
00:28:34,201 --> 00:28:35,234
Oh, I will.
619
00:28:35,267 --> 00:28:36,567
I should know
all these boys by now.
620
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,301
I know it, I know it.
621
00:28:38,334 --> 00:28:39,567
We're cousins.
622
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,900
That's right.
623
00:28:40,934 --> 00:28:42,600
Oh, but you don't cry.
624
00:28:47,035 --> 00:28:48,900
[Interviewer]
What's for,
what's for dinner?
625
00:28:48,934 --> 00:28:51,001
Well, we got
a little bit of everything,
626
00:28:51,034 --> 00:28:52,101
whatever you wish.
627
00:28:52,134 --> 00:28:54,201
Baked beans,
scalloped potatoes...
628
00:28:54,234 --> 00:28:56,334
Fruit salad, macaroni salad.
629
00:28:56,368 --> 00:28:59,101
I'll tell you something
I bet you've never had,
630
00:28:59,134 --> 00:29:01,633
barbecued venison
in the crock pot.
631
00:29:01,667 --> 00:29:02,900
Barbecued venison?
632
00:29:02,934 --> 00:29:04,234
Yeah.
633
00:29:04,267 --> 00:29:07,101
[overlapping chatter]
634
00:29:07,134 --> 00:29:08,867
[Reporter]
Delbert, laugh!
635
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:10,900
[laughing]
- Yep.
636
00:29:12,534 --> 00:29:14,468
What do you think
of this whole, uh,
637
00:29:14,501 --> 00:29:16,867
this whole party
put together for you?
638
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:18,134
I think it's good.
639
00:29:18,167 --> 00:29:19,701
Why do you think
they're doing all this?
640
00:29:19,735 --> 00:29:21,701
To help me,
they're all my good friends.
641
00:29:21,735 --> 00:29:24,301
All these people,
obviously, are behind you
642
00:29:24,334 --> 00:29:25,633
in saying
you didn't kill your brother.
643
00:29:25,667 --> 00:29:27,167
That's right, I didn't.
644
00:29:27,201 --> 00:29:28,367
You didn't.
645
00:29:29,401 --> 00:29:30,500
A lot of people are saying,
if you did...
646
00:29:32,668 --> 00:29:34,701
I mean, a lot of people who
are supporting you
647
00:29:34,735 --> 00:29:36,534
are saying, well, they don't
know if you did or didn't,
648
00:29:36,568 --> 00:29:37,967
but if you did,
it was a mercy killing.
649
00:29:38,001 --> 00:29:39,633
Any response to that?
650
00:29:39,667 --> 00:29:41,401
I don't think much about it.
651
00:29:41,434 --> 00:29:43,034
We believe
this man is innocent,
652
00:29:43,067 --> 00:29:44,900
and that's why, uh,
we're at this party.
653
00:29:46,101 --> 00:29:47,667
We believed it right
from the very beginning,
654
00:29:49,034 --> 00:29:50,667
and we always
will believe it.
655
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:51,934
[Interviewer]
Why?
656
00:29:53,734 --> 00:29:55,533
This is not
the type of man
657
00:29:56,601 --> 00:29:59,867
to commit such a,
a vicious crime.
658
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:03,134
He, he's just not
built that way.
659
00:30:03,167 --> 00:30:06,333
He's a, an easy going,
lovable individual,
660
00:30:07,568 --> 00:30:11,201
and I sincerely believe that
this man will be acquitted,
661
00:30:11,234 --> 00:30:13,533
and my wife
believes the same thing.
662
00:30:13,567 --> 00:30:14,801
Did-Did you know him?
663
00:30:14,835 --> 00:30:18,200
Do I know him?
Well, my, uh, my nephew...
664
00:30:19,201 --> 00:30:23,468
is... that's-that's-that would
be his uncle,
665
00:30:23,501 --> 00:30:25,467
and I've met him before,
666
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:26,768
a few times,
667
00:30:26,801 --> 00:30:31,668
and he's a very, very fine
talking, uh, individual,
668
00:30:31,701 --> 00:30:35,867
who never should've been
arrested at no time.
669
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:36,867
Okay.
670
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:39,434
Coming in three, two...
671
00:30:39,468 --> 00:30:41,401
A murder trial
is nothing that unusual
672
00:30:41,434 --> 00:30:42,801
for central New York.
673
00:30:42,835 --> 00:30:45,468
What is unusual here
is the national
media attention
674
00:30:45,501 --> 00:30:47,401
this is getting,
and the crowds of people
675
00:30:47,434 --> 00:30:50,533
who have come out to support
the accused killer.
676
00:30:52,034 --> 00:30:53,401
One more.
677
00:30:53,434 --> 00:30:56,868
A murder case is nothing that
unusual for central New York.
678
00:30:56,901 --> 00:30:59,468
What is unusual here
is the national
media attention
679
00:30:59,501 --> 00:31:01,568
this is getting,
and the crowds of people
680
00:31:01,601 --> 00:31:04,200
who have come out to support
the accused killer.
681
00:31:07,034 --> 00:31:10,167
[country music playing ♪]
682
00:31:10,201 --> 00:31:13,867
[people whooping]
683
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,134
Two...one...
684
00:31:37,167 --> 00:31:38,334
Delbert Ward will return
685
00:31:38,368 --> 00:31:40,368
to Madison County Courthouse
next week,
686
00:31:40,401 --> 00:31:41,800
so attorneys on both sides
687
00:31:41,834 --> 00:31:43,501
can present evidence
to the judge.
688
00:31:43,534 --> 00:31:44,801
Friends here seem optimistic,
689
00:31:44,835 --> 00:31:46,867
but they say it's frustrating
to know that,
690
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:48,067
despite all their efforts,
691
00:31:48,101 --> 00:31:50,734
all they can really do
is sit and wait.
692
00:31:50,767 --> 00:31:52,567
Allison Alexander,
News Center.
693
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,834
[party chatter]
694
00:31:54,867 --> 00:31:56,266
♪♪
695
00:32:22,568 --> 00:32:26,001
I really think
that most people
696
00:32:26,034 --> 00:32:28,967
thought that they
minded their own business.
697
00:32:29,001 --> 00:32:31,001
They were different.
698
00:32:31,034 --> 00:32:33,134
As long as they
didn't step on your feet,
699
00:32:33,167 --> 00:32:34,568
why the hell were you
gonna step on theirs?
700
00:32:34,601 --> 00:32:38,201
Well now, like, going in down
to the confections store,
701
00:32:38,234 --> 00:32:39,133
or whatever to eat,
702
00:32:40,267 --> 00:32:45,134
I kind of hate to eat after
they did, wouldn't you?
703
00:32:45,167 --> 00:32:47,167
You wouldn't, you know...
- You know, wouldn't...
704
00:32:47,201 --> 00:32:49,067
You wouldn't go right down
and plunk your ass down
705
00:32:49,101 --> 00:32:50,767
on the same table that they
were sitting at.
706
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,002
Same chair...
707
00:32:52,035 --> 00:32:56,134
You'd move over a little bit,
'cause hell, uh, the smell.
708
00:32:56,167 --> 00:32:57,334
Might get the best of ya.
709
00:32:57,368 --> 00:32:59,701
You know they sweat...
- [Mrs. Geisler laughing]
710
00:32:59,735 --> 00:33:02,334
They worked and, hell, I
don't think they changed
their clothes
711
00:33:02,368 --> 00:33:04,167
in maybe six months,
712
00:33:04,201 --> 00:33:05,434
unless they...
- No.
713
00:33:05,468 --> 00:33:07,334
...went to a funeral
or something like that.
714
00:33:07,368 --> 00:33:09,034
But they went,
uh...
715
00:33:09,067 --> 00:33:10,368
the girls' weddings.
- Yeah.
716
00:33:10,401 --> 00:33:11,468
And then they were
dressed up.
- Yeah.
717
00:33:11,501 --> 00:33:13,067
[Interviewer]
And yet, you helped them.
718
00:33:13,101 --> 00:33:16,167
That's right,
and I'd, I'd help 'em again.
719
00:33:16,201 --> 00:33:17,701
Yeah, they went to the, to
the girls' weddings,
720
00:33:17,735 --> 00:33:20,668
Hell, they're a part
of this damn community.
- 'cause we did, too.
721
00:33:20,701 --> 00:33:22,667
We've never had
a murder here,
722
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:24,534
as I ever remember.
723
00:33:24,568 --> 00:33:26,967
There's always been
this antagonism
724
00:33:27,001 --> 00:33:30,501
between the big city
a-and the rural areas.
725
00:33:30,534 --> 00:33:33,968
You know, if, if you
are born in the rural area
726
00:33:34,002 --> 00:33:36,467
and make it good,
it must mean
you go to the city
727
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:38,867
and make it good.
728
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:40,368
It's not,
you go down the road
729
00:33:40,401 --> 00:33:41,401
and start your own business.
730
00:33:41,434 --> 00:33:44,235
It's, you go to the city
and make it big.
731
00:33:44,268 --> 00:33:49,500
And city people, I think,
are inclined to look at
country people as bumpkins.
732
00:33:49,533 --> 00:33:50,534
As, uh...
733
00:33:50,568 --> 00:33:53,334
probably not terribly bright,
734
00:33:53,368 --> 00:33:56,134
and maybe, not awfully
strongly moti--motivated,
735
00:33:56,167 --> 00:33:58,701
and nothing can be further
from the truth if you see,
736
00:33:58,735 --> 00:34:00,767
see the way some of
these farmers work,
737
00:34:02,401 --> 00:34:06,134
and I suspect
the city stereotype
738
00:34:06,167 --> 00:34:08,867
is probably within the heads
of the BCI
739
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:10,301
and the District Attorney,
740
00:34:10,334 --> 00:34:11,501
and they probably
don't know it,
741
00:34:11,534 --> 00:34:14,201
it's just, it's part of
the culture that you think
742
00:34:14,234 --> 00:34:16,633
rural area is that way,
you see,
743
00:34:16,667 --> 00:34:18,567
and I-I think...
744
00:34:20,834 --> 00:34:22,500
I think, maybe...
745
00:34:22,533 --> 00:34:23,735
that...
746
00:34:23,768 --> 00:34:29,368
part of the drawing together
of Munnsville behind Delbert
747
00:34:29,401 --> 00:34:32,301
is that the
"We against Them,"
748
00:34:32,334 --> 00:34:35,901
them being the, in quotes,
"Big City DA,"
749
00:34:35,935 --> 00:34:38,734
trying to get poor Delbert
up there on the hills.
750
00:34:38,767 --> 00:34:40,200
♪♪
751
00:34:53,834 --> 00:34:55,668
[car honking]
752
00:34:55,701 --> 00:34:57,901
[Thurston]
The boys never got
any attention before.
753
00:34:57,935 --> 00:35:01,301
When they had them dances
and stuff for him down here
754
00:35:01,334 --> 00:35:03,633
and put on the benefits,
755
00:35:03,667 --> 00:35:05,333
to Delbert, that was a party.
756
00:35:06,668 --> 00:35:08,067
He didn't realize,
I don't think,
757
00:35:08,101 --> 00:35:10,501
that we was trying to raise
money for his defense
758
00:35:10,534 --> 00:35:11,967
so he wouldn't go to prison.
759
00:35:12,001 --> 00:35:15,234
Nobody'd ever give
the Ward boys a party.
760
00:35:15,267 --> 00:35:16,467
Not ever in their life.
761
00:35:17,634 --> 00:35:20,301
So, here, all of a sudden,
is all these goddamn people
762
00:35:20,334 --> 00:35:22,201
crowded around
and giving him a big party
763
00:35:22,234 --> 00:35:24,500
and Delbert's dancing,
the first time in his life.
764
00:35:24,533 --> 00:35:25,468
[cow mooing]
765
00:35:25,501 --> 00:35:27,134
People coming up
and asking him to dance,
766
00:35:27,167 --> 00:35:28,701
and hell, they wouldn't have
danced with him before,
767
00:35:28,735 --> 00:35:30,967
for Christ's sakes,
if you had paid 'em to.
768
00:35:31,001 --> 00:35:34,067
From what it appears,
uh, in the area,
769
00:35:34,101 --> 00:35:36,534
the Wards were kind of
outcast people.
770
00:35:36,568 --> 00:35:38,201
You know, they weren't
generally accepted
771
00:35:38,234 --> 00:35:39,401
down there,
772
00:35:39,434 --> 00:35:42,701
and it's one thing for...
773
00:35:42,735 --> 00:35:46,534
the people who live there to
consider somebody an outcast,
774
00:35:46,568 --> 00:35:48,501
but he was still
their outcast.
775
00:35:48,534 --> 00:35:51,134
You know, if it
comes up to somebody else
776
00:35:51,167 --> 00:35:55,034
looking into
the, the lifestyles
of people down there
777
00:35:55,067 --> 00:35:57,568
and accusing them
of something, it's...
778
00:35:57,601 --> 00:35:59,867
I find it's natural,
in some of these rural areas,
779
00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:01,634
that people stick together.
780
00:36:01,668 --> 00:36:04,800
They stick by their own,
the people in the area.
781
00:36:04,834 --> 00:36:07,834
And that they went to,
went to back him
782
00:36:07,867 --> 00:36:09,834
as being an underdog,
783
00:36:09,867 --> 00:36:13,334
not caring really,
in my estimation,
784
00:36:13,368 --> 00:36:15,900
whether he was right
or wrong, at that point.
785
00:36:15,934 --> 00:36:17,834
He was just one of theirs.
786
00:36:17,867 --> 00:36:19,968
Delbert told me...
787
00:36:20,002 --> 00:36:23,967
that they were asking him all
kinds of questions,
788
00:36:24,001 --> 00:36:26,034
and he was saying yes and no,
789
00:36:26,067 --> 00:36:27,334
and he was getting tired,
790
00:36:27,368 --> 00:36:29,501
and one of the troopers
said to him,
791
00:36:29,534 --> 00:36:32,533
"Delbert, if you sign
this paper right here,
I'll take you home.
792
00:36:32,567 --> 00:36:34,701
I see you're tired."
793
00:36:34,735 --> 00:36:36,368
And Delbert said,
"I signed the papers,
794
00:36:36,401 --> 00:36:39,334
and he slapped the handcuffs
right on me.
795
00:36:39,368 --> 00:36:41,567
Took me to the lockup."
796
00:36:45,767 --> 00:36:47,633
Makes you wonder, don't it?
797
00:36:47,667 --> 00:36:50,033
[dogs barking]
798
00:36:54,501 --> 00:36:56,367
The first time
I was ever in jail.
799
00:36:57,667 --> 00:36:59,500
I hope it's the last time.
800
00:37:00,368 --> 00:37:02,002
Don't have no room,
801
00:37:02,035 --> 00:37:07,301
wasn't much wider than from
here over to where you stand.
802
00:37:07,334 --> 00:37:09,034
You walk out in front
of your cell,
803
00:37:09,067 --> 00:37:11,201
your cell was only
just a little one.
804
00:37:11,234 --> 00:37:12,835
Concrete floor,
- [cats mewing]
805
00:37:12,868 --> 00:37:15,301
and then the little room
you had to walk in,
806
00:37:15,334 --> 00:37:17,200
had floor tile on it.
807
00:37:18,267 --> 00:37:20,967
Only, only place you had
to sit was just like this,
808
00:37:21,001 --> 00:37:23,067
back right up,
sit right on the concrete,
809
00:37:23,101 --> 00:37:24,834
and then lean right up
against the blocks.
810
00:37:26,168 --> 00:37:27,967
[Interviewer]
Were you ever in a place
like that before?
811
00:37:28,001 --> 00:37:29,867
No. Never.
812
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,900
[spitting]
813
00:37:32,934 --> 00:37:34,500
Didn't you sign a confession?
814
00:37:34,533 --> 00:37:36,001
Yep.
815
00:37:36,034 --> 00:37:36,967
How come?
816
00:37:37,001 --> 00:37:38,034
'Cause I didn't know
what I was doing.
817
00:37:38,067 --> 00:37:40,600
I was nervous,
and all shook up.
818
00:37:41,468 --> 00:37:43,167
What did they have you sign?
819
00:37:43,201 --> 00:37:46,900
Two or three papers, then had
to put your initials on 'em.
820
00:37:46,934 --> 00:37:48,034
Did you read the papers?
821
00:37:48,067 --> 00:37:49,900
I couldn't see them 'cause
I didn't have my glasses.
822
00:37:49,934 --> 00:37:51,001
Can you read?
823
00:37:51,034 --> 00:37:52,767
A little bit, not much.
824
00:37:54,267 --> 00:37:55,401
It wouldn't have
done me no good
825
00:37:55,434 --> 00:37:56,501
if I did have the glasses
826
00:37:56,534 --> 00:37:59,501
'cause they,
they wasn't no good anyway.
827
00:37:59,534 --> 00:38:02,167
What'd they tell you
to get you to sign it?
828
00:38:02,201 --> 00:38:04,233
I don't know what they
did tell me now.
829
00:38:09,834 --> 00:38:11,067
Did they read it to you?
830
00:38:11,101 --> 00:38:12,667
Yes, they read it.
831
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:13,868
Did you understand it?
832
00:38:13,901 --> 00:38:15,867
Some of it, I did,
and some of it, I didn't.
833
00:38:18,935 --> 00:38:21,234
Did they tell you you could
go home if you signed it?
834
00:38:21,267 --> 00:38:23,400
No, they didn't tell me
I could go home.
835
00:38:23,433 --> 00:38:25,167
What'd they say?
836
00:38:25,201 --> 00:38:27,200
Well, they said
it'd be easier on you.
837
00:38:29,501 --> 00:38:30,633
It would be easier, if what?
838
00:38:30,667 --> 00:38:31,734
On me.
839
00:38:33,234 --> 00:38:34,700
But it wasn't.
840
00:38:36,667 --> 00:38:38,233
I don't think.
841
00:38:38,834 --> 00:38:40,800
♪♪
842
00:38:41,468 --> 00:38:43,166
[dogs barking in distance]
843
00:38:50,035 --> 00:38:51,735
[Cognetti]
When we were
in the Grand Jury,
844
00:38:51,768 --> 00:38:54,167
a photograph was,
uh, given to Delbert,
845
00:38:54,201 --> 00:38:55,668
and he was asked
to identify it.
846
00:38:55,701 --> 00:38:57,800
It was a photograph of his,
of his brother
847
00:38:57,834 --> 00:38:59,401
lying prone on the bed.
848
00:38:59,434 --> 00:39:02,468
What was interesting
was that there was a pillow
849
00:39:02,501 --> 00:39:04,835
that appeared to be
over the face.
850
00:39:04,868 --> 00:39:08,667
Um, I don't know how or why
the photograph was offered.
851
00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:10,568
I would hope...
852
00:39:10,601 --> 00:39:12,568
for Mr. Cerio's sake,
that it wasn't offered
853
00:39:12,601 --> 00:39:16,034
to represent the body
as it was when it was found
854
00:39:16,067 --> 00:39:18,568
because, if it was,
that's not a true photograph.
855
00:39:18,601 --> 00:39:22,067
The... In fact, the body, when
it was found that morning
856
00:39:22,101 --> 00:39:25,567
by the first, uh,
first person in the bedroom,
857
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,234
had no pillow near it.
858
00:39:27,267 --> 00:39:31,401
As far as any fabrication of
evidence, uh, regarding, uh,
859
00:39:31,434 --> 00:39:35,301
uh, putting a pillow over
William Ward's case,
860
00:39:35,334 --> 00:39:39,534
regarding taking photographs
of the scene, um...
861
00:39:39,568 --> 00:39:42,735
I would like to use the term
"outrageous," regarding that,
862
00:39:42,768 --> 00:39:45,534
because the State Police
is not in the business
863
00:39:45,568 --> 00:39:49,067
of, of fabricating any type
of physical evidence.
864
00:39:49,101 --> 00:39:51,401
Uh, we go on the merits
of the case,
865
00:39:51,434 --> 00:39:53,201
and if the merits
of the case,
866
00:39:53,234 --> 00:39:55,334
uh, substantiate and suggest
867
00:39:55,368 --> 00:39:57,900
that there is criminal
culpability, then we proceed.
868
00:39:57,934 --> 00:40:00,101
If it doesn't,
we conclude our case,
869
00:40:00,134 --> 00:40:02,433
and we close it
by investigation.
870
00:40:03,834 --> 00:40:05,068
[Interviewer]
So, Lyman...
871
00:40:05,102 --> 00:40:07,501
what were you telling me
about the women in town here?
872
00:40:07,534 --> 00:40:08,967
Oh, there's nice women
in town.
873
00:40:09,001 --> 00:40:10,101
Yeah?
874
00:40:10,134 --> 00:40:12,368
There are.
I know every one
of them in there.
875
00:40:12,401 --> 00:40:13,401
What do you think?
876
00:40:13,434 --> 00:40:14,500
Oh, there're nice women.
877
00:40:14,533 --> 00:40:15,400
Yeah?
878
00:40:15,433 --> 00:40:17,067
Yeah.
879
00:40:17,101 --> 00:40:19,267
They're-They're pretty good,
pretty good friends.
880
00:40:19,301 --> 00:40:20,700
- Yeah?
- Yep.
881
00:40:20,734 --> 00:40:22,368
Them women I know
are gone now.
882
00:40:22,401 --> 00:40:24,334
Used to know.
- They ain't there anymore.
883
00:40:24,368 --> 00:40:25,800
Them young ones.
884
00:40:25,834 --> 00:40:27,834
You get married, you're gone!
885
00:40:27,867 --> 00:40:29,735
[Roscoe]
You get married, you're gone.
886
00:40:29,768 --> 00:40:32,734
Did you guys used to,
you know, have, like,
girlfriends and...?
887
00:40:32,767 --> 00:40:34,401
Nah, I didn't have any.
- Nah.
888
00:40:34,434 --> 00:40:36,134
[Roscoe]
Lyman never wanted
a girlfriend.
889
00:40:36,167 --> 00:40:37,633
Not like you,
I wouldn't have them around.
890
00:40:37,667 --> 00:40:38,835
[Roscoe] Me neither.
- Why?
891
00:40:38,868 --> 00:40:40,668
Oh, I just don't know, just
don't want them, that's all.
892
00:40:40,701 --> 00:40:42,533
Got to put that
on her finger.
893
00:40:42,567 --> 00:40:43,767
Yeah.
894
00:40:46,067 --> 00:40:47,567
Ever thought of
getting married?
895
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,568
- No.
- Come on.
896
00:40:49,601 --> 00:40:51,401
No, sir, that's out of
my territory.
897
00:40:51,434 --> 00:40:55,001
I never, never thought of it,
and I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
898
00:40:55,034 --> 00:40:58,201
All the nice women you bring,
I wouldn't.
899
00:40:58,234 --> 00:40:59,900
Not me. No, sir.
900
00:41:01,701 --> 00:41:04,967
[Roscoe]
My brother, Bill, he didn't
want no women either.
901
00:41:05,001 --> 00:41:07,533
Ike up there,
my cousin in the bus,
902
00:41:07,567 --> 00:41:09,200
he don't want no women.
903
00:41:11,634 --> 00:41:14,033
He said he'd rather
live alone.
904
00:41:15,401 --> 00:41:22,001
Watch his, uh, his CB nights,
and watch his television.
905
00:41:22,034 --> 00:41:23,800
♪♪
906
00:41:36,835 --> 00:41:39,167
[Investigator Graham]
Lyman eventually
told us that, uh,
907
00:41:39,201 --> 00:41:41,834
they had talked about
killing William
908
00:41:41,867 --> 00:41:43,501
a couple days prior
to his death.
909
00:41:43,534 --> 00:41:44,800
That conversation took place
910
00:41:44,834 --> 00:41:47,234
out in front of
their residence.
911
00:41:47,267 --> 00:41:49,567
In fact, Lyman said
it was under a big tree
912
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,002
in front of their house,
913
00:41:51,035 --> 00:41:56,167
where, um, Delbert came up to
Lyman and says, um,
914
00:41:56,201 --> 00:41:58,634
"You know, Brother William
is-is in a lot of pain
915
00:41:58,668 --> 00:42:00,633
with his stomach and h-his
head problems.
916
00:42:00,667 --> 00:42:02,368
He has continuous headaches,
917
00:42:02,401 --> 00:42:05,201
and I think it's about time
that we did something, uh,
918
00:42:05,234 --> 00:42:06,801
to help him,"
919
00:42:06,835 --> 00:42:08,668
and then Lyman
asked Delbert, he says,
920
00:42:08,701 --> 00:42:10,101
"What do you mean by,
you know,
921
00:42:10,134 --> 00:42:11,334
'It's about time we
did something.'"
922
00:42:11,368 --> 00:42:13,734
He says, "I think we, uh,
you know, should kill him
923
00:42:13,767 --> 00:42:15,800
so he's not
suffering anymore,"
924
00:42:15,834 --> 00:42:18,234
and initially,
they talked in regards
925
00:42:18,267 --> 00:42:19,867
to how they were
going to kill him,
926
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:22,167
or how Delbert
was going to kill him,
927
00:42:22,201 --> 00:42:24,700
and Delbert decided
he was gonna use a rifle
928
00:42:24,734 --> 00:42:25,834
and shoot him in the head.
929
00:42:26,935 --> 00:42:29,800
Um, Lyman had explained
to him that was too messy,
930
00:42:29,834 --> 00:42:32,468
and he didn't wanna
do it that way,
931
00:42:32,501 --> 00:42:33,901
or have it done that way,
932
00:42:33,935 --> 00:42:36,700
and it was decided that
Delbert would choke him,
933
00:42:36,734 --> 00:42:38,633
um...
934
00:42:38,667 --> 00:42:40,134
and kill him.
935
00:42:40,167 --> 00:42:41,467
♪♪
936
00:42:53,034 --> 00:42:54,701
One of the problems
that I've...
937
00:42:54,735 --> 00:42:55,868
as I am sure
you are well aware,
938
00:42:55,901 --> 00:42:57,368
one of the problems
that I've had with the,
939
00:42:57,401 --> 00:43:02,100
the incredible press coverage
is that it is...
940
00:43:03,601 --> 00:43:05,734
presenting to Delbert
a whole 'nother world
941
00:43:05,767 --> 00:43:07,368
that he's not used to,
942
00:43:07,401 --> 00:43:09,735
and by presenting that
to him,
943
00:43:09,768 --> 00:43:12,633
it's, it's changing him
in, in some form,
944
00:43:12,667 --> 00:43:15,100
um, and it is to my benefit,
945
00:43:16,267 --> 00:43:18,834
I should say,
it's to his benefit,
that he appear,
946
00:43:18,867 --> 00:43:22,167
uh, to the jury as he was
on the date
947
00:43:22,201 --> 00:43:25,134
that this incident
allegedly took place.
948
00:43:25,167 --> 00:43:28,301
Um, I would hate...
[stammers]
949
00:43:28,334 --> 00:43:31,501
it comes to mind,
the example of him
testifying,
950
00:43:31,534 --> 00:43:33,468
you know,
in a sharkskin suit,
951
00:43:33,501 --> 00:43:35,301
with his hair slicked back
952
00:43:35,334 --> 00:43:37,501
and, and sunglasses on.
953
00:43:37,534 --> 00:43:38,534
Now, that would never happen,
954
00:43:38,568 --> 00:43:39,633
but that's
what I'm getting at.
955
00:43:39,667 --> 00:43:41,501
I don't want him to change.
956
00:43:41,534 --> 00:43:44,468
He's still is obviously
a shy, gentle person,
957
00:43:44,501 --> 00:43:46,800
but he's becoming
somewhat, uh,
958
00:43:46,834 --> 00:43:48,834
schooled in the ways
of the world.
959
00:43:48,867 --> 00:43:50,233
♪♪
960
00:43:54,767 --> 00:43:56,867
[inaudible dialogue]
961
00:43:58,234 --> 00:44:01,034
[chickens clucking]
962
00:44:01,067 --> 00:44:03,333
[muffled auctioneer]
963
00:44:05,601 --> 00:44:07,801
Dollar and a quarter.
[mumbling]
964
00:44:07,835 --> 00:44:10,468
One and a half. Dollar 75.
Two dollar, and a quarter.
965
00:44:10,501 --> 00:44:14,166
[auctioneer continues]
966
00:44:18,134 --> 00:44:21,001
It seems odd to see Delbert
here without Bill.
967
00:44:21,034 --> 00:44:24,067
I've known them, them guys,
what, 35, 40 years,
968
00:44:24,101 --> 00:44:25,734
never, never seen 'em apart.
969
00:44:25,767 --> 00:44:26,900
Never seen 'em apart.
970
00:44:26,934 --> 00:44:28,101
Delbert's changing, I think.
971
00:44:28,134 --> 00:44:29,167
- Delbert is changing.
- Yeah.
972
00:44:29,201 --> 00:44:30,434
Delbert is changing.
973
00:44:30,468 --> 00:44:31,800
Yeah, Delbert is changing.
974
00:44:31,834 --> 00:44:34,633
♪♪
975
00:44:34,667 --> 00:44:36,668
[chicken squawking]
976
00:44:36,701 --> 00:44:39,266
[auctioneer continues,
indistinct]
977
00:44:44,935 --> 00:44:47,834
[Art Bishopp]
Delbert, well, he hasn't
changed in 40 years.
978
00:44:47,867 --> 00:44:49,067
I do know that.
979
00:44:49,101 --> 00:44:50,234
No, he hasn't changed.
980
00:44:50,267 --> 00:44:52,568
See, the nice part
about Delbert,
981
00:44:52,601 --> 00:44:54,067
he tells you something,
you can believe it.
982
00:44:54,101 --> 00:44:55,167
This guy says,
"Good morning,"
983
00:44:55,201 --> 00:44:56,734
you gotta look out
and see if it's night.
984
00:44:56,767 --> 00:44:57,801
You know, I used to come up,
985
00:44:57,835 --> 00:45:00,568
I used to see Delbert
when he was down here.
986
00:45:00,601 --> 00:45:02,967
Delbert was here,
wasn't you, Delbert?
987
00:45:03,001 --> 00:45:04,101
Mm-hmm.
988
00:45:04,134 --> 00:45:07,701
I was, uh, I was 15 years old
when Delbert was born.
989
00:45:07,735 --> 00:45:09,234
Oh, Delbert's a good boy.
- It's kinda scary.
990
00:45:09,267 --> 00:45:10,367
Always has been.
991
00:45:11,368 --> 00:45:13,301
When it, when it boils down
to everything,
992
00:45:13,334 --> 00:45:15,468
I think it come out of
the kindness of his heart.
993
00:45:15,501 --> 00:45:17,567
That's what I, that's what I
believed from the beginning,
994
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,834
and I believe it today.
995
00:45:18,867 --> 00:45:21,900
♪♪
996
00:45:21,934 --> 00:45:24,200
[auction continues,
indistinct]
997
00:45:30,201 --> 00:45:31,668
[chicken squawking]
998
00:45:31,701 --> 00:45:33,900
Well, I-I-I do believe
h-he probably,
999
00:45:33,934 --> 00:45:37,500
he probably did do it
out of, you know...
1000
00:45:37,533 --> 00:45:38,735
but it's, it's, uh...
1001
00:45:38,768 --> 00:45:40,167
At first, I didn't,
I didn't believe it,
1002
00:45:40,201 --> 00:45:42,334
and then we started
putting everything together,
1003
00:45:42,368 --> 00:45:45,234
with, you know, with Bill's
troubles and all and, uh,
1004
00:45:45,267 --> 00:45:46,801
and if he,
if he was suffering,
1005
00:45:46,835 --> 00:45:49,501
it wouldn't be beyond him,
probably, to...
1006
00:45:49,534 --> 00:45:50,835
like, put him
out of his misery,
1007
00:45:50,868 --> 00:45:53,568
like you would a sick cat
or something like that.
1008
00:45:53,601 --> 00:45:56,234
But, uh, it was, it was hard
to talk about it while we,
1009
00:45:56,267 --> 00:45:57,501
you know, with Delbert around
1010
00:45:57,534 --> 00:45:59,867
'cause I know he
probably feels bad.
1011
00:45:59,900 --> 00:46:02,500
But they've been damn,
damn good boys.
1012
00:46:11,034 --> 00:46:13,701
Our objective
in any interrogation
1013
00:46:13,735 --> 00:46:17,501
is to solicit
incriminating responses,
1014
00:46:17,534 --> 00:46:20,468
and, uh, I mean, we're in the
business of...
1015
00:46:20,501 --> 00:46:23,900
of, of doing police work and
doing effective police work,
1016
00:46:23,934 --> 00:46:28,034
and we use the, the methods
and techniques
1017
00:46:28,067 --> 00:46:30,167
that are, are
most productive to us,
1018
00:46:30,201 --> 00:46:32,501
and it's my opinion that
Question and Answer
1019
00:46:32,534 --> 00:46:34,900
is the most productive
in an interrogation.
1020
00:46:36,768 --> 00:46:39,334
[Thurston]
Were you befuddled in any way
1021
00:46:39,368 --> 00:46:43,533
on the sixth of June
by this whole procedure?
1022
00:46:43,567 --> 00:46:45,167
Um, no, I guess not.
1023
00:46:45,201 --> 00:46:46,600
Do you know what
befuddled means?
1024
00:46:46,633 --> 00:46:47,333
No, I don't.
1025
00:46:48,701 --> 00:46:52,201
We discussed, briefly,
if he knew what
any of his rights were,
1026
00:46:52,234 --> 00:46:56,501
and he remarked, right off,
that he, uh, he watched TV,
1027
00:46:56,534 --> 00:46:58,800
especially, uh, "Hunter,"
1028
00:46:58,834 --> 00:47:00,868
which is a detective show,
1029
00:47:00,901 --> 00:47:04,234
and he did know
some of his rights, verbatim,
1030
00:47:04,267 --> 00:47:06,134
uh, already.
1031
00:47:07,667 --> 00:47:09,801
[Thurston]
Did they suggest to you,
in any way, that,
1032
00:47:09,834 --> 00:47:11,467
how you might have
killed Bill?
1033
00:47:11,501 --> 00:47:13,234
Yes, they did.
They showed me how I done it.
1034
00:47:13,267 --> 00:47:14,300
Could you show me?
1035
00:47:14,334 --> 00:47:15,968
Yes, I could show you.
1036
00:47:16,001 --> 00:47:17,867
Well, go ahead, show me.
1037
00:47:20,335 --> 00:47:21,734
[muffled] That's tight as you
can squeeze?
1038
00:47:21,767 --> 00:47:24,033
Can't kill me. [mumbling]
1039
00:47:25,934 --> 00:47:27,067
[muffled laughing]
1040
00:47:28,268 --> 00:47:31,300
What he told us, that night,
is what I'm relating to you,
1041
00:47:31,334 --> 00:47:33,068
and that's what he told us.
1042
00:47:33,101 --> 00:47:35,800
After the fact,
a lot of words
were put in his mouth,
1043
00:47:35,833 --> 00:47:37,235
but...
1044
00:47:37,268 --> 00:47:39,801
there was no, no...
Investigator Rifenberg
1045
00:47:39,834 --> 00:47:40,968
didn't demonstrate on me,
1046
00:47:41,001 --> 00:47:42,300
or I didn't
demonstrate on him.
1047
00:47:42,334 --> 00:47:43,701
His exact way of doing it
1048
00:47:43,734 --> 00:47:46,234
was he put his hand
over his own mouth
1049
00:47:46,267 --> 00:47:47,933
to indicate how he did it.
1050
00:47:49,701 --> 00:47:52,900
[cows mooing]
1051
00:47:57,501 --> 00:47:59,034
[District Attorney]
So, at that point,
1052
00:47:59,068 --> 00:48:00,968
they want to take a written
statement, right?
1053
00:48:01,001 --> 00:48:02,301
A typed statement?
- [Delbert] Yes.
1054
00:48:02,335 --> 00:48:04,467
They want to put that
down in writing,
1055
00:48:04,501 --> 00:48:05,501
and they told you that.
1056
00:48:05,534 --> 00:48:06,701
Yes, they told me that.
1057
00:48:06,734 --> 00:48:08,335
And you said yes.
- Yes.
1058
00:48:08,368 --> 00:48:10,734
And you remember them telling
you that it was a crime
1059
00:48:10,767 --> 00:48:12,701
in the State of New York...
- Yes.
1060
00:48:12,734 --> 00:48:14,001
...to give a
false statement...
1061
00:48:14,034 --> 00:48:16,367
Yes.
- ...and you understood that?
1062
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,701
No, I didn't understood it.
1063
00:48:17,734 --> 00:48:19,534
You didn't understand
that it's a crime to lie?
1064
00:48:19,567 --> 00:48:23,134
No, 'cause I knew
I didn't kill him.
1065
00:48:23,168 --> 00:48:26,834
And then they said to you,
"Delbert, if this is the
truth, sign this statement."
1066
00:48:26,868 --> 00:48:27,868
Remember him
telling you that?
1067
00:48:27,901 --> 00:48:29,534
Yes, I remember him telling
me that.
1068
00:48:29,567 --> 00:48:30,967
And you signed the statement?
1069
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,667
Yes, I signed it.
1070
00:48:32,701 --> 00:48:33,634
Now, you weren't handcuffed?
1071
00:48:33,667 --> 00:48:34,868
No.
1072
00:48:34,901 --> 00:48:36,833
They didn't have their guns
out pointing them at you?
1073
00:48:36,867 --> 00:48:38,335
No.
1074
00:48:38,368 --> 00:48:40,501
You say they read this to you
about four or five times?
1075
00:48:40,534 --> 00:48:42,868
About that.
- About that.
1076
00:48:42,901 --> 00:48:44,400
And each time, you told them
that was the truth
1077
00:48:44,434 --> 00:48:45,968
and those were your answers?
1078
00:48:46,001 --> 00:48:48,068
Yes, I thought
that if I cooperated,
1079
00:48:48,101 --> 00:48:50,033
I would get out of there,
but I didn't.
1080
00:48:51,667 --> 00:48:53,833
[birds cawing]
1081
00:49:00,868 --> 00:49:04,901
They've jumped from,
uh, sex to, with incest,
1082
00:49:04,934 --> 00:49:06,901
or whatever you'd call it,
1083
00:49:06,934 --> 00:49:09,534
between the boys, to mercy
killing to,
1084
00:49:09,567 --> 00:49:11,234
what the hell, who knows.
1085
00:49:12,201 --> 00:49:14,200
They still haven't come up
with any motive
1086
00:49:14,234 --> 00:49:15,900
for why he would kill him.
1087
00:49:16,934 --> 00:49:19,734
Bill was the whole push
behind this family.
1088
00:49:19,767 --> 00:49:20,666
He was the boss.
1089
00:49:21,834 --> 00:49:24,235
He walked in front,
and Delbert walked
back of him,
1090
00:49:24,268 --> 00:49:26,801
and when Bill stopped,
Delbert would run into him.
1091
00:49:26,834 --> 00:49:29,901
That's the way they lead,
and that's the way
they followed.
1092
00:49:29,934 --> 00:49:31,968
They were two men that walked
the same pair of shoes,
1093
00:49:32,001 --> 00:49:36,901
so Delbert wouldn't, no way,
done anything to Bill.
1094
00:49:36,934 --> 00:49:39,534
According to my information,
1095
00:49:39,567 --> 00:49:41,701
and it must be...
1096
00:49:41,734 --> 00:49:43,300
on the record now,
1097
00:49:43,334 --> 00:49:44,868
they held Bill's body
two days
1098
00:49:44,901 --> 00:49:49,566
over at the funeral parlor
to do a rape test on him.
1099
00:49:52,033 --> 00:49:54,334
It come out inconclusive
1100
00:49:54,367 --> 00:49:56,701
or whatever the hell
they put it.
1101
00:49:56,734 --> 00:49:58,301
So, that was nothing.
1102
00:49:58,335 --> 00:50:01,001
[Interviewer]
What were they looking for?
1103
00:50:01,034 --> 00:50:03,334
Looking for sperm
in Bill's body.
1104
00:50:04,834 --> 00:50:07,734
That was because they
always slept together,
1105
00:50:07,767 --> 00:50:09,134
but if they'd found it
or not,
1106
00:50:09,168 --> 00:50:10,468
what the hell difference
does that make?
1107
00:50:10,502 --> 00:50:12,868
We got a lot of goddamn guys
down in New York City,
1108
00:50:12,901 --> 00:50:14,400
where you boys are from,
that sleep together.
1109
00:50:14,434 --> 00:50:15,768
[laughing]
1110
00:50:15,802 --> 00:50:19,567
And they ain't doin' it
just because it's
a way of life, either.
1111
00:50:19,601 --> 00:50:21,534
I mean, that would have
no bearing on the case,
1112
00:50:21,567 --> 00:50:23,200
whatsoever, in my mind.
1113
00:50:24,068 --> 00:50:26,034
We have lesbians and gay
people all over,
1114
00:50:26,068 --> 00:50:29,234
so why the hell
they was bothering
with Bill and Delbert?
1115
00:50:29,267 --> 00:50:30,634
I don't understand that part,
1116
00:50:30,667 --> 00:50:32,168
but they were just
fishing for something
1117
00:50:32,201 --> 00:50:34,267
to justify
what they were doin'.
1118
00:50:35,934 --> 00:50:38,033
That would be my
understanding of it.
1119
00:50:39,267 --> 00:50:40,533
Like a witch hunt.
1120
00:50:41,567 --> 00:50:42,667
Like the mercy killing.
1121
00:50:42,701 --> 00:50:46,534
He hasn't been sick, uh,
any more than normal.
1122
00:50:46,567 --> 00:50:48,667
For Bill, Bill was always
hobbling or lame
1123
00:50:48,701 --> 00:50:52,400
or a thumb-bunged
or his arm hurt or something,
1124
00:50:52,434 --> 00:50:53,734
and every time I had
ever seen him,
1125
00:50:53,767 --> 00:50:56,867
he's always had something
bunged up on him, so...
1126
00:50:58,467 --> 00:51:00,634
He wasn't sick...
1127
00:51:00,667 --> 00:51:02,501
so that would rule out
the mercy killing,
1128
00:51:02,534 --> 00:51:05,167
so what the hell else
could they come up with?
1129
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,467
I think, probably, that...
1130
00:51:07,501 --> 00:51:09,734
you get a few
narrow-minded people,
1131
00:51:09,767 --> 00:51:11,701
it wouldn't matter
who slept together,
1132
00:51:11,734 --> 00:51:13,801
they'd have to
think the worst of 'em.
1133
00:51:13,834 --> 00:51:16,001
That's they way
our society works.
1134
00:51:16,034 --> 00:51:18,534
We're not back a hundred
years ago,
1135
00:51:18,567 --> 00:51:20,968
whatever you did
was all right.
1136
00:51:21,001 --> 00:51:22,502
Before we got heat
in the houses,
1137
00:51:22,535 --> 00:51:24,801
which the boys don't have no
central heating or anything,
1138
00:51:24,834 --> 00:51:26,367
they slept together,
probably, more or less,
1139
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:27,834
for warmth,
1140
00:51:27,868 --> 00:51:29,701
so they wouldn't
freeze to death.
1141
00:51:29,734 --> 00:51:32,001
We used to have a wood stove,
and it heated one room.
1142
00:51:32,034 --> 00:51:35,034
You'd burn your belly
and freeze your ass.
1143
00:51:35,068 --> 00:51:37,734
When you get up to bed,
there was no heat
in all our bedrooms.
1144
00:51:37,767 --> 00:51:40,334
Oh, I think these boys
are the same way.
1145
00:51:41,501 --> 00:51:43,300
They just slept together
when they was kids,
1146
00:51:43,334 --> 00:51:45,335
and why the hell change it?
1147
00:51:45,368 --> 00:51:47,900
Was a comfortable arrangement
all the way around.
1148
00:51:49,167 --> 00:51:50,267
Just a habit.
1149
00:51:51,401 --> 00:51:53,901
These not are the most
educated people in the world.
1150
00:51:53,934 --> 00:51:55,201
It probably
never dawned on them
1151
00:51:55,235 --> 00:51:56,501
that anybody
would ever question
1152
00:51:56,534 --> 00:51:58,267
why they slept
in the same bed.
1153
00:52:00,668 --> 00:52:04,834
And before Bill died,
I don't think anybody
ever paid any attention.
1154
00:52:04,868 --> 00:52:06,600
You wouldn't think nothing
about it.
1155
00:52:08,401 --> 00:52:10,034
Hell, nobody ever went
in their house anyway.
1156
00:52:10,068 --> 00:52:12,467
Always talked
in the cow barn.
1157
00:52:12,501 --> 00:52:14,001
I've known them since,
for Christ's sakes,
1158
00:52:14,034 --> 00:52:15,335
for better than 50 years,
1159
00:52:15,368 --> 00:52:18,467
and I never been in their
house, only twice.
1160
00:52:18,501 --> 00:52:20,067
So, what the hell
did I care where they slept
1161
00:52:20,100 --> 00:52:21,133
or anybody else?
1162
00:52:21,167 --> 00:52:22,733
It's nobody's damn business.
1163
00:52:23,901 --> 00:52:25,801
So, when the investigators
pulled that one,
1164
00:52:25,834 --> 00:52:28,200
I was kind of surprised, but...
1165
00:52:29,534 --> 00:52:31,201
I guess they'd pull
most anything
1166
00:52:31,235 --> 00:52:34,200
when you get your tail
caught in a crack in a log.
1167
00:52:34,234 --> 00:52:36,167
[chuckling]
1168
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,335
[dogs barking]
1169
00:52:38,368 --> 00:52:40,300
[Interviewer]
When was this house built?
1170
00:52:40,334 --> 00:52:42,867
What, sixty... five.
1171
00:52:44,068 --> 00:52:46,167
Musta been, 'cause Ma lived
in it just about a year
1172
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,634
before she passed away.
1173
00:52:47,667 --> 00:52:48,967
And she died in '65.
1174
00:52:49,934 --> 00:52:52,666
Or '64, then, it was about.
- '64, probably.
1175
00:52:54,067 --> 00:52:55,200
I'd say.
1176
00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:59,901
Was there a house here before?
1177
00:52:59,934 --> 00:53:01,734
There was an old house,
sat over on this other side.
1178
00:53:01,767 --> 00:53:03,200
Over on this other side.
1179
00:53:06,001 --> 00:53:08,734
What was,
what was your mom like?
1180
00:53:08,767 --> 00:53:11,501
She was a good person,
good lady, good mother.
1181
00:53:11,534 --> 00:53:14,100
Yeah.
- Do anything for you.
1182
00:53:20,067 --> 00:53:21,700
She died of cancers...
1183
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:24,567
Didn't she Delbert?
- Ma.
1184
00:53:24,601 --> 00:53:26,067
Yup.
- Yeah, so did Dad.
1185
00:53:26,100 --> 00:53:27,001
Yeah.
1186
00:53:27,034 --> 00:53:30,000
[stammering]
Sister Emma had 'em.
1187
00:53:31,234 --> 00:53:32,666
Moses' mother.
1188
00:53:33,634 --> 00:53:35,801
I think Bill died
with a cancer, too.
1189
00:53:35,834 --> 00:53:37,566
I do. He did.
1190
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:42,566
♪♪
1191
00:53:46,734 --> 00:53:48,666
This battery's
not too lively.
1192
00:53:55,567 --> 00:53:58,367
[indistinct mumbling]
1193
00:54:06,367 --> 00:54:07,734
It's the battery.
1194
00:54:07,767 --> 00:54:09,235
[engine sputtering]
1195
00:54:09,268 --> 00:54:11,267
Don't think either one of
'em's any good.
1196
00:54:14,033 --> 00:54:16,067
[cows mooing]
1197
00:54:32,334 --> 00:54:35,701
[engine sputtering]
1198
00:54:35,734 --> 00:54:38,200
Goddamn fuckin' thing.
1199
00:54:48,868 --> 00:54:50,766
[cows mooing]
1200
00:54:55,834 --> 00:54:58,334
I don't think she's gonna
start, Lyman.
1201
00:54:58,367 --> 00:55:01,700
[engine sputtering]
1202
00:55:06,001 --> 00:55:07,567
[indistinct mumbling]
1203
00:55:07,601 --> 00:55:08,733
That's the end of it.
1204
00:55:08,766 --> 00:55:09,867
Yep.
1205
00:55:11,234 --> 00:55:12,300
♪♪
1206
00:55:15,367 --> 00:55:17,434
[wind rustling]
1207
00:55:33,701 --> 00:55:36,533
[dog barking]
1208
00:55:42,868 --> 00:55:44,900
[dog whimpering]
1209
00:55:46,868 --> 00:55:50,734
[music on tv]
1210
00:55:50,767 --> 00:55:52,334
Our first story
is about some people
1211
00:55:52,367 --> 00:55:54,301
you just don't see
on television.
1212
00:55:54,335 --> 00:55:56,000
I mean, they're almost
from a different era.
1213
00:55:56,033 --> 00:55:58,001
Sort of unbelievable.
1214
00:55:58,034 --> 00:56:00,001
You just have to
see this story.
1215
00:56:00,034 --> 00:56:01,868
It's about the Ward brothers,
1216
00:56:01,901 --> 00:56:03,868
Delbert, Roscoe,
Lyman, and Bill.
1217
00:56:03,901 --> 00:56:06,467
All bachelors, who live
together in a cramped shack,
1218
00:56:06,501 --> 00:56:08,301
where they were born
in Munnsville.
1219
00:56:08,335 --> 00:56:11,134
It's a small dairy town
in central New York state.
1220
00:56:11,168 --> 00:56:13,334
The Ward Boys,
as they've always been known,
1221
00:56:13,367 --> 00:56:15,834
lived the way farmers did
200 years ago.
1222
00:56:15,868 --> 00:56:17,468
They never learned
to read or write.
1223
00:56:17,502 --> 00:56:20,567
They have no running water,
no modern farming equipment.
1224
00:56:20,601 --> 00:56:23,133
Nobody in town ever
paid much attention to them,
1225
00:56:23,167 --> 00:56:24,968
until one day last summer,
1226
00:56:25,001 --> 00:56:29,134
when Delbert was charged
with murdering his older
brother, Bill.
1227
00:56:29,168 --> 00:56:30,467
Suddenly,
the people of Munnsville
1228
00:56:30,501 --> 00:56:31,868
rallied around Delbert.
1229
00:56:31,901 --> 00:56:34,001
It's hard
to put into words just...
1230
00:56:34,034 --> 00:56:35,868
how simple they really are.
1231
00:56:35,901 --> 00:56:38,667
They never really grown up.
1232
00:56:38,701 --> 00:56:42,501
They're just
plain, simple boys.
1233
00:56:42,534 --> 00:56:44,133
Little boys,
1234
00:56:44,167 --> 00:56:46,034
with old man's faces.
1235
00:56:46,068 --> 00:56:49,134
He wouldn't even shoot a cat
if he was half dead.
1236
00:56:49,168 --> 00:56:52,567
Talking about killing Bill...
no way.
1237
00:56:52,601 --> 00:56:53,467
No, he didn't.
1238
00:56:54,901 --> 00:56:57,068
[Connie Chung on TV]
What did the police ask you
that night?
1239
00:56:57,101 --> 00:56:58,868
[Delbert on TV]
Well, they asked me
if I killed him,
1240
00:56:58,901 --> 00:57:00,000
and I tried to tell them,
"No,"
1241
00:57:00,033 --> 00:57:02,068
- They wouldn't.
1242
00:57:02,101 --> 00:57:04,068
- They said,
"You did, you did."
1243
00:57:04,101 --> 00:57:06,034
[Chung] You told him
you didn't kill him.
1244
00:57:06,068 --> 00:57:07,667
[Delbert] Well, I tried to,
but they wouldn't believe me.
1245
00:57:07,701 --> 00:57:10,167
[Asst. DA on TV]
I just slid my hand
around his head,
1246
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,301
came up, covered his mouth,
1247
00:57:12,335 --> 00:57:15,667
and held my hand there for a
period of about five minutes.
1248
00:57:15,701 --> 00:57:17,868
You're a goddamn liar.
- Yeah.
1249
00:57:17,901 --> 00:57:19,034
[overlapping talking]
1250
00:57:19,068 --> 00:57:21,400
'Cause you told, you told me
that's how I done it.
1251
00:57:21,434 --> 00:57:23,068
Goddamn liar.
1252
00:57:23,101 --> 00:57:24,701
You told me
that's how I done it,
1253
00:57:24,734 --> 00:57:25,968
showed me how I done it.
1254
00:57:26,001 --> 00:57:28,502
[Asst. DA on TV]
He showed how he was laying
in the bed...
1255
00:57:28,535 --> 00:57:31,667
That son of a bitch wasn't
supposed to have been there
until 7:30,
1256
00:57:31,701 --> 00:57:34,634
they brought him in just to
read the confession over,
1257
00:57:34,667 --> 00:57:35,501
didn't he?
1258
00:57:35,534 --> 00:57:37,300
Yes, he's a son of a bitch
and a liar.
1259
00:57:37,334 --> 00:57:38,501
Yeah, he's lying like hell.
1260
00:57:38,534 --> 00:57:39,634
He wasn't supposed to been
down there
1261
00:57:39,667 --> 00:57:42,168
according to
the Huntley Hearing 'til 7:30
1262
00:57:42,201 --> 00:57:44,600
just to read that confession
over to you.
1263
00:57:45,934 --> 00:57:47,967
Are you crying Delbert?
- No.
1264
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:49,201
Sometimes I do.
1265
00:57:49,235 --> 00:57:50,901
You don't have to pay
no attention to that.
1266
00:57:50,934 --> 00:57:53,034
Why were you crying Delbert?
1267
00:57:53,068 --> 00:57:55,368
Well, I think of Bill a lot
down there again.
1268
00:57:55,401 --> 00:57:59,201
Then Jane or Moses or Glenn
come in to see me
1269
00:57:59,235 --> 00:58:03,134
or some of my other friends,
and then I'd start crying.
1270
00:58:03,168 --> 00:58:07,501
[Connie Chung]
After 20 days, Delbert's bail
was finally set at $10,000,
1271
00:58:07,534 --> 00:58:09,235
and the people of Munnsville,
1272
00:58:09,268 --> 00:58:12,235
who had never before embraced
any of the Wards,
1273
00:58:12,268 --> 00:58:14,801
raised the money to free him
in a day.
1274
00:58:14,834 --> 00:58:16,535
We're all your friends.
- I know it.
1275
00:58:16,568 --> 00:58:18,868
We're always gonna be
your friends.
- I know that.
1276
00:58:18,901 --> 00:58:21,300
And we wish you a lot of
health and happiness.
1277
00:58:21,334 --> 00:58:23,667
Thank you, all.
- In your 60th year.
1278
00:58:23,701 --> 00:58:25,834
[man] And he hopes he gets
out of this.
1279
00:58:25,868 --> 00:58:27,968
We know he's gonna
get out of it.
1280
00:58:28,001 --> 00:58:30,334
[Asst. DA] And I think
Delbert knows what happened
1281
00:58:30,367 --> 00:58:31,468
that night on Johnson Road.
1282
00:58:31,502 --> 00:58:33,968
He has to live with it
the rest of his life.
1283
00:58:34,001 --> 00:58:35,767
[Thurston] He had no problem
with it, so far,
1284
00:58:35,801 --> 00:58:37,235
you son of a bitch.
1285
00:58:37,268 --> 00:58:39,300
If I ever get the chance
at that bastard,
1286
00:58:39,334 --> 00:58:42,235
and he's on my land,
he'd better pray.
1287
00:58:42,268 --> 00:58:44,534
'Cause I'm gettin' so goddamn
old and so goddamn sick
1288
00:58:44,567 --> 00:58:45,868
that I don't care
too much anymore.
1289
00:58:45,901 --> 00:58:48,134
It makes me a dangerous man.
1290
00:58:48,168 --> 00:58:50,534
[Connie Chung] Delbert Ward's
trial is expected to begin
1291
00:58:50,567 --> 00:58:51,868
in a few weeks.
1292
00:58:51,901 --> 00:58:53,635
Organizers in Munnsville
are planning
1293
00:58:53,668 --> 00:58:56,868
several benefit raffles
to cover the cost
of his defense.
1294
00:58:56,901 --> 00:58:58,234
We'll be back in a moment.
1295
00:58:58,267 --> 00:59:00,434
[music on tv ♪]
1296
00:59:02,601 --> 00:59:04,502
Well, Roscoe, you...
1297
00:59:04,535 --> 00:59:07,467
had your snoot stuck in that
television camera all summer.
1298
00:59:07,501 --> 00:59:09,467
How'd you like seeing
yourself on television?
1299
00:59:09,501 --> 00:59:10,734
All right.
1300
00:59:10,767 --> 00:59:13,335
Is that all, after all that?
- Yeah.
1301
00:59:13,368 --> 00:59:15,300
Christ, you hogged it
all summer,
didn't he Delbert?
1302
00:59:15,334 --> 00:59:16,435
Yeah!
1303
00:59:16,468 --> 00:59:18,634
Every time they got out a
camera, there was Roscoe,
1304
00:59:18,667 --> 00:59:21,001
smilin' and grinnin'.
- Yeah.
1305
00:59:21,034 --> 00:59:23,401
You did a good job, though,
Roscoe.
- Yeah.
1306
00:59:23,435 --> 00:59:25,467
I give you credit for that.
- He did do a good job.
1307
00:59:25,501 --> 00:59:28,368
Yup.
- They didn't shake you
a goddamn bit.
1308
00:59:28,401 --> 00:59:30,634
Well, I didn't sign no
goddamn papers with them,
1309
00:59:30,667 --> 00:59:32,566
did I, Harry?
- No.
1310
00:59:33,767 --> 00:59:35,868
Lyman wouldn't of signed
the goddamn paper
1311
00:59:35,901 --> 00:59:37,401
if they hadn't told him
he could come home.
1312
00:59:37,435 --> 00:59:39,534
He was so goddamn scared,
he was pretty near dead.
1313
00:59:39,567 --> 00:59:41,567
Look at the goddamn night
he was so bad.
1314
00:59:41,601 --> 00:59:43,101
Jesus Christ, I come up and...
1315
00:59:43,134 --> 00:59:45,201
I had to call you for him
that night.
1316
00:59:45,235 --> 00:59:47,601
Thought- thought Roscoe was
gonna die, we did,
1317
00:59:47,634 --> 00:59:49,634
Jesus Christ, so I told him
he had to get better
1318
00:59:49,667 --> 00:59:51,300
'cause Connie Chung
was comin' the next day,
1319
00:59:51,334 --> 00:59:52,734
and, God, he snapped right
out of it.
1320
00:59:52,767 --> 00:59:55,300
[laughing] He did.
Snapped right out of it.
1321
00:59:55,334 --> 00:59:58,067
And he hasn't been ill since.
- No.
1322
00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:00,734
"All right," Roscoe said,
1323
01:00:00,767 --> 01:00:02,068
"I'll go to bed and get
rested up.
1324
01:00:02,101 --> 01:00:03,200
I'll be all right
in the morning."
1325
01:00:03,234 --> 01:00:04,600
Yeah.
[laughing]
1326
01:00:05,567 --> 01:00:07,368
Joe and Bruce, come on.
Come on up.
1327
01:00:07,401 --> 01:00:10,534
I wanna show you the old-old-
old gobblers.
1328
01:00:10,567 --> 01:00:11,933
♪♪
1329
01:00:14,300 --> 01:00:16,367
[indistinct]
1330
01:00:17,235 --> 01:00:19,833
We named one Joe,
and one, Bruce.
1331
01:00:22,868 --> 01:00:25,100
H-Hear 'em, Joe?
[dog barking]
1332
01:00:26,067 --> 01:00:28,033
Gobble, gobble, gobble.
1333
01:00:28,967 --> 01:00:31,334
[laughing]
1334
01:00:33,701 --> 01:00:35,401
I ain't fed ya yet.
1335
01:00:35,435 --> 01:00:38,234
[turkeys gobbling]
That one wants some trouble.
1336
01:00:43,434 --> 01:00:45,100
Gobble, gobble, gobble.
1337
01:00:49,301 --> 01:00:52,533
Come on over, Joe and Bruce.
I wanna show 'em to ya.
1338
01:00:57,267 --> 01:00:59,534
If I can get in there.
1339
01:00:59,567 --> 01:01:01,933
[turkeys gobbling]
1340
01:01:03,201 --> 01:01:06,900
There- there's Joe,
the big one...
1341
01:01:09,235 --> 01:01:11,467
...and that one over there's
Bruce, the one h...
1342
01:01:11,501 --> 01:01:13,901
the one lookin' towards
the windshield.
1343
01:01:13,934 --> 01:01:15,367
[Interviewer] You named your
gobblers after us?
1344
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,367
Yup, that's right.
[laughing]
1345
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:19,667
How come?
1346
01:01:19,701 --> 01:01:23,001
Well... good name!
- Yeah.
1347
01:01:23,034 --> 01:01:25,968
Good friends.
That's why I done it.
1348
01:01:26,001 --> 01:01:27,901
That's nice.
Well, we're honored.
1349
01:01:27,934 --> 01:01:30,400
I know that.
- Yeah.
1350
01:01:30,434 --> 01:01:31,701
[dogs barking]
1351
01:01:31,734 --> 01:01:33,801
How come you like
collecting birds?
1352
01:01:33,834 --> 01:01:35,834
Oh, well, I always did.
- How come?
1353
01:01:35,868 --> 01:01:37,334
I don't know.
1354
01:01:37,367 --> 01:01:39,134
I used to keep wild doves,
1355
01:01:39,168 --> 01:01:40,834
but I never had no luck
with 'em.
1356
01:01:40,868 --> 01:01:42,867
Well, what is it about birds
that you like?
1357
01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:44,535
Oh...
1358
01:01:44,568 --> 01:01:48,334
I like to see 'em around
and hear 'em- hear 'em-
hear 'em holler.
1359
01:01:48,367 --> 01:01:51,133
Always did.
[turkey gobbling]
1360
01:01:51,167 --> 01:01:53,634
Always like to hear them.
1361
01:01:53,667 --> 01:01:55,801
Gobble, gobble, gobble,
gobble, gobble!
1362
01:01:55,834 --> 01:01:57,168
See them going?
1363
01:01:57,201 --> 01:02:00,501
H-He knows there's something
going on.
1364
01:02:00,534 --> 01:02:02,933
Can't fool that old bird.
1365
01:02:04,868 --> 01:02:07,101
[Cognetti] I wanted you here
today for several reasons.
1366
01:02:07,134 --> 01:02:09,968
The first, is to let you know
what's been happening.
1367
01:02:10,001 --> 01:02:11,834
I really haven't had an
opportunity to speak with-
1368
01:02:11,868 --> 01:02:14,800
with, uh... Hey, Roscoe.
1369
01:02:14,833 --> 01:02:16,234
Roscoe!
1370
01:02:16,267 --> 01:02:17,701
[speaking Italian]
1371
01:02:17,734 --> 01:02:19,168
[laughing]
1372
01:02:19,201 --> 01:02:20,868
I haven't had an opportunity
to speak with a lot of you,
1373
01:02:20,901 --> 01:02:22,767
since maybe even
the bail hearing,
1374
01:02:22,801 --> 01:02:25,201
which was many, many,
many months ago.
1375
01:02:25,235 --> 01:02:27,400
I am very disappointed
at what I see
1376
01:02:27,434 --> 01:02:29,567
from the District Attorney's
office.
1377
01:02:29,601 --> 01:02:32,868
At the time that the body
was moved to the...
1378
01:02:32,901 --> 01:02:35,667
uh, funeral home,
1379
01:02:35,701 --> 01:02:38,567
the clothes were taken
and Doctor Germaniuk,
1380
01:02:38,601 --> 01:02:40,001
sometime thereafter,
1381
01:02:40,034 --> 01:02:42,400
discovered that there was
some sperm
1382
01:02:42,434 --> 01:02:45,901
on the pant leg of William,
1383
01:02:45,934 --> 01:02:48,400
and some sperm on William
himself,
1384
01:02:48,434 --> 01:02:50,368
on his body.
1385
01:02:50,401 --> 01:02:53,401
That, at that moment,
changed his whole theory
of the murder.
1386
01:02:53,435 --> 01:02:57,667
It no longer is, at least,
this is what we've been able
t-t-to fathom,
1387
01:02:57,701 --> 01:03:00,200
it no longer is
a mercy killing.
1388
01:03:00,234 --> 01:03:01,534
Believe it or not,
1389
01:03:01,567 --> 01:03:05,133
it's a sex-gone-bad murder.
1390
01:03:05,167 --> 01:03:07,001
I think the allegation,
1391
01:03:07,034 --> 01:03:08,301
perhaps along with
some other things,
1392
01:03:08,335 --> 01:03:11,167
is that Delbert and William
were having sex,
1393
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,001
uh, that a fight occurred,
1394
01:03:13,034 --> 01:03:14,400
and that Delbert
killed William.
1395
01:03:14,434 --> 01:03:15,701
That's-That's incredible.
1396
01:03:15,734 --> 01:03:18,968
That's what the new theory
may very well be.
1397
01:03:19,001 --> 01:03:21,034
He had continually said it
was Delbert's,
1398
01:03:21,068 --> 01:03:22,734
it was Delbert's,
it was Delbert's,
1399
01:03:22,767 --> 01:03:24,868
and we kept saying, how in
God's name do you know that?
1400
01:03:24,901 --> 01:03:27,300
Don't you think you should
check and see
if it's William's first?
1401
01:03:27,334 --> 01:03:28,701
Or is it the cow's?
1402
01:03:28,734 --> 01:03:30,134
Or is it somebody else's?
1403
01:03:31,168 --> 01:03:33,001
Now, I am so upset, and I
don't know what else to do.
1404
01:03:33,034 --> 01:03:34,534
If I could,
I told somebody over here,
1405
01:03:34,567 --> 01:03:36,701
if God were to tell me,
today, I'm gonna die,
1406
01:03:36,734 --> 01:03:38,901
the first person I-
this is great for them-
1407
01:03:38,934 --> 01:03:39,968
the first--
[laughing]
1408
01:03:40,001 --> 01:03:42,034
the first person I would kill
is Mr. Cerio.
1409
01:03:42,068 --> 01:03:43,501
I don't have any problem
with the guy
1410
01:03:43,534 --> 01:03:45,901
prosecuting the case
to the best of his ability.
1411
01:03:45,934 --> 01:03:47,300
They're going beyond that.
1412
01:03:47,334 --> 01:03:49,067
I think they look like
a bunch of fools
1413
01:03:49,100 --> 01:03:50,635
in Connie Chung's story.
1414
01:03:50,668 --> 01:03:53,033
I don't know where
a State Police Officer has
the guts--
1415
01:03:53,067 --> 01:03:54,101
[applause]
1416
01:03:54,134 --> 01:03:55,567
...to tell
on national television,
1417
01:03:55,601 --> 01:03:57,501
"I know he did it."
1418
01:03:57,534 --> 01:03:59,367
All of a sudden,
he's judge and jury?
1419
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:00,701
Let me tell you
something else.
1420
01:04:00,734 --> 01:04:03,667
When this trial comes,
we're gonna have this planned
1421
01:04:03,701 --> 01:04:05,168
as if it was a Broadway show,
1422
01:04:05,201 --> 01:04:07,234
and I'm gonna ask
every one of you right now,
1423
01:04:07,267 --> 01:04:09,300
I want you to find
ten people,
1424
01:04:09,334 --> 01:04:10,801
and I want
that courtroom packed
1425
01:04:10,834 --> 01:04:13,001
every minute of every day,
1426
01:04:13,034 --> 01:04:16,300
and I want you people to look
those jurors in the eye
when they sit there.
1427
01:04:16,334 --> 01:04:18,367
That's what-
that's what I want,
1428
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,200
and we'll take care
of the legal end.
1429
01:04:20,234 --> 01:04:22,734
I guarantee you,
you will be proud
1430
01:04:22,767 --> 01:04:24,834
of what's going to happen,
1431
01:04:24,868 --> 01:04:25,968
but I need your help.
1432
01:04:26,001 --> 01:04:28,401
I-I need your help,
a-and, uh...
1433
01:04:28,435 --> 01:04:31,367
I can't do it without you.
I want you people there.
1434
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,634
Every day, from the moment
we begin,
1435
01:04:33,667 --> 01:04:34,701
to the moment we end.
1436
01:04:34,734 --> 01:04:36,367
You can bring your lunches.
1437
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:37,567
I-It's gotta be that way.
1438
01:04:37,601 --> 01:04:40,634
I want- I want the people
in Madison county to know
1439
01:04:40,667 --> 01:04:42,634
that this stuff can't happen.
1440
01:04:42,667 --> 01:04:44,901
The problem is,
because it could be you
next time
1441
01:04:44,934 --> 01:04:46,867
or you next time
or you next time.
1442
01:04:52,334 --> 01:04:55,067
[dogs barking in distance]
1443
01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:56,533
[door shuts]
1444
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,701
Well, Delbert,
1445
01:05:09,734 --> 01:05:11,934
this is the day
we've been waitin' for,
1446
01:05:11,968 --> 01:05:13,100
maybe we'll get it over.
1447
01:05:13,133 --> 01:05:14,701
Maybe.
I hope so.
1448
01:05:14,734 --> 01:05:16,100
I got one wish.
1449
01:05:16,133 --> 01:05:17,434
My birthday's next Tuesday.
1450
01:05:17,467 --> 01:05:19,368
I hope they bring in
the goddamn verdict
1451
01:05:19,401 --> 01:05:22,033
that you didn't do nothin'
for a birthday present.
1452
01:05:28,033 --> 01:05:30,033
[engine starts]
1453
01:05:39,601 --> 01:05:41,666
[Court Clerk]
All rise, please.
1454
01:05:44,167 --> 01:05:45,034
[gavel bangs]
1455
01:05:45,068 --> 01:05:46,968
Madison County Court
is now in session.
1456
01:05:47,001 --> 01:05:50,068
Honorable William F. O'Brien
the Third presiding.
1457
01:05:50,101 --> 01:05:51,534
Yeah.
Good morning and thank you.
1458
01:05:51,567 --> 01:05:52,766
Have a seat, please.
1459
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:56,533
[cough]
1460
01:06:00,434 --> 01:06:02,867
Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury.
1461
01:06:04,601 --> 01:06:07,034
This is a murder case,
1462
01:06:07,068 --> 01:06:11,200
wherein, the defendant,
that man...
1463
01:06:11,234 --> 01:06:13,068
...is charged by indictment,
1464
01:06:13,101 --> 01:06:18,034
with having intentionally
caused the death of another...
1465
01:06:18,068 --> 01:06:21,034
...in this case, his brother,
William J. Ward,
1466
01:06:21,068 --> 01:06:24,467
by placing his had or hands
1467
01:06:24,501 --> 01:06:28,367
over the nose and mouth
of his brother...
1468
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,900
...thereby intentionally
causing his death
1469
01:06:30,933 --> 01:06:32,600
by asphyxiation.
1470
01:06:33,434 --> 01:06:36,001
You will hear
that the defendant,
1471
01:06:36,034 --> 01:06:40,634
at that time,
stated to Police Officers,
1472
01:06:40,667 --> 01:06:42,834
"After Bill went to sleep,
1473
01:06:42,868 --> 01:06:45,535
I decided to put my hand
over his mouth."
1474
01:06:45,568 --> 01:06:49,034
He said that he held his hand
there for about five minutes,
1475
01:06:49,068 --> 01:06:51,468
until he felt that William
was dead,
1476
01:06:51,502 --> 01:06:55,634
and at the conclusion
of this case,
ladies and gentlemen...
1477
01:06:55,667 --> 01:06:58,666
...upon the conclusion
of your deliberations...
1478
01:07:01,834 --> 01:07:04,734
...I will ask you to return...
1479
01:07:04,767 --> 01:07:07,301
...a verdict of guilty
in this case.
1480
01:07:07,335 --> 01:07:10,933
Guilty of the crime of murder
in the second degree.
1481
01:07:17,201 --> 01:07:21,334
Ladies and gentlemen,
let me begin
by saying simply...
1482
01:07:21,367 --> 01:07:23,167
...perhaps dramatically, that...
1483
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,733
Delbert Ward did not...
1484
01:07:27,501 --> 01:07:30,502
...murder his brother William.
1485
01:07:30,535 --> 01:07:34,667
Delbert Ward could no sooner
kill his brother, Bill,
1486
01:07:34,701 --> 01:07:37,400
than he could kill
a half-dead tom cat.
1487
01:07:37,434 --> 01:07:39,001
I would submit,
ladies and gentlemen,
1488
01:07:39,034 --> 01:07:41,168
you will unquestionably learn
1489
01:07:41,201 --> 01:07:44,667
that what we have is a child
in the body of a man.
1490
01:07:44,701 --> 01:07:47,334
Here is a man,
whose disability,
1491
01:07:47,367 --> 01:07:50,001
whose simple personality,
1492
01:07:50,034 --> 01:07:52,400
made him susceptible
to tactics,
1493
01:07:52,434 --> 01:07:55,368
that would have been
recognized by you and I,
1494
01:07:55,401 --> 01:07:59,900
as coercive, when used
against Delbert Ward.
1495
01:08:02,267 --> 01:08:04,734
Here's a man, who allegedly...
1496
01:08:04,767 --> 01:08:07,367
...signed an alleged
confession...
1497
01:08:08,601 --> 01:08:11,400
...and that confession, ladies
and gentlemen,
1498
01:08:11,434 --> 01:08:15,001
that confession
is the only proof
1499
01:08:15,034 --> 01:08:17,400
that the prosecutor
will show you,
1500
01:08:17,434 --> 01:08:20,400
will give to you
over the next several days,
1501
01:08:20,434 --> 01:08:22,334
that can connect Delbert
1502
01:08:22,367 --> 01:08:25,834
with the murder
of his brother, Bill.
1503
01:08:25,868 --> 01:08:29,400
There was and is
no independent...
1504
01:08:29,434 --> 01:08:31,701
...medical proof...
1505
01:08:31,734 --> 01:08:36,068
...that William died
as a result of a homicide.
1506
01:08:36,101 --> 01:08:38,467
You must come back,
ladies and gentlemen,
1507
01:08:38,501 --> 01:08:40,967
and tell Delbert and I
that you find him
1508
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,335
not guilty...
1509
01:08:43,368 --> 01:08:47,467
...of the crime of murder
in the second degree.
1510
01:08:47,501 --> 01:08:49,701
As I remember,
1511
01:08:49,734 --> 01:08:54,034
m-m-my feeling was that he
was telling it like he is,
1512
01:08:54,068 --> 01:08:56,001
he didn't know
what was wrong,
1513
01:08:56,034 --> 01:08:58,734
and, uh, that's what he said,
1514
01:08:58,767 --> 01:09:00,767
he said, "Something's wrong
with Bill."
1515
01:09:00,801 --> 01:09:03,901
Oh, all over the world
everybody knows Delbert,
1516
01:09:03,934 --> 01:09:06,034
in our hometown.
[clears throat]
1517
01:09:06,068 --> 01:09:08,300
If you saw him again,
could you pick him out?
1518
01:09:08,334 --> 01:09:09,200
Yeah.
1519
01:09:09,234 --> 01:09:10,534
Could you recognize him?
- Yeah.
1520
01:09:10,567 --> 01:09:12,034
Is he in the courtroom?
- Yeah.
1521
01:09:12,068 --> 01:09:15,000
Well, would you- can you
point him out for us, please?
1522
01:09:15,033 --> 01:09:16,868
Okay.
1523
01:09:16,901 --> 01:09:18,667
The gentleman
with the gray beard?
1524
01:09:18,701 --> 01:09:19,501
What was that?
1525
01:09:19,534 --> 01:09:20,867
The gentleman
with the gray beard?
1526
01:09:20,900 --> 01:09:22,501
[laughing]
1527
01:09:22,534 --> 01:09:23,734
What?
1528
01:09:23,767 --> 01:09:25,967
I-Is it the man
with the gray beard
you're pointing to?
1529
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:27,701
Yes.
1530
01:09:27,734 --> 01:09:28,868
The record may reflect
1531
01:09:28,901 --> 01:09:30,234
that he has identified
the defendant.
1532
01:09:30,267 --> 01:09:31,900
[rooster crows]
1533
01:09:34,766 --> 01:09:36,000
Come on.
1534
01:09:36,033 --> 01:09:37,566
♪♪
1535
01:09:42,367 --> 01:09:43,733
Come on.
1536
01:09:48,067 --> 01:09:49,766
[turkeys gobbling]
1537
01:09:55,334 --> 01:09:57,200
[dogs barking]
1538
01:10:39,235 --> 01:10:41,000
[Judge] You may proceed,
Mr. Cerio.
1539
01:10:41,033 --> 01:10:42,201
Thank you, Your Honor.
1540
01:10:42,235 --> 01:10:43,601
Would you state
your full name, please?
1541
01:10:43,634 --> 01:10:46,701
My full name is Humphrey Don
Germaniuk.
1542
01:10:46,734 --> 01:10:52,666
H-U-M-P-H-R-E-Y-
D-O-N-G-E-R-M-A-N-I-U-K.
1543
01:10:53,834 --> 01:10:57,134
And could you tell us
what a Medical Examiner is?
1544
01:10:57,168 --> 01:11:00,168
A Medical Examiner
is a licensed doctor
1545
01:11:00,201 --> 01:11:04,201
whose function it is to
determine a cause of death,
1546
01:11:04,235 --> 01:11:07,300
a manner of death,
and to investigate death.
1547
01:11:07,334 --> 01:11:09,234
A cause of death
1548
01:11:09,267 --> 01:11:11,667
is any event that,
ultimately,
1549
01:11:11,701 --> 01:11:15,001
is responsible
for the individual's demise.
1550
01:11:15,034 --> 01:11:18,734
The manner of death
are the circumstances
1551
01:11:18,767 --> 01:11:21,567
in which the cause of death
took place.
1552
01:11:21,601 --> 01:11:25,068
Let's take an example
of an unnatural death,
1553
01:11:25,101 --> 01:11:27,234
where there's an individual
lying on the floor
1554
01:11:27,267 --> 01:11:29,001
of his or her home.
1555
01:11:29,034 --> 01:11:31,734
The individual is lying in a
pool of blood.
1556
01:11:31,767 --> 01:11:34,634
There's a revolver
next to the individual.
1557
01:11:34,667 --> 01:11:37,201
There's a hole
in the individual's head.
1558
01:11:37,235 --> 01:11:39,467
The cause of death,
more likely than not,
1559
01:11:39,501 --> 01:11:41,868
would be gunshot wound
to the head.
1560
01:11:41,901 --> 01:11:43,400
But what is the manner?
1561
01:11:43,434 --> 01:11:46,334
What are the circumstances
surrounding that?
1562
01:11:46,367 --> 01:11:48,801
Did someone shoot him or her?
1563
01:11:48,834 --> 01:11:50,367
Did they take their own life?
1564
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,001
Or was it an accident?
1565
01:11:52,034 --> 01:11:54,868
So, even though we may have
the same cause of death,
1566
01:11:54,901 --> 01:11:56,667
the manner may vary.
1567
01:11:56,701 --> 01:11:58,934
Suppose this individual
was a businessman,
1568
01:11:58,968 --> 01:12:00,701
whose business was failing.
1569
01:12:00,734 --> 01:12:02,367
He was in financial troubles.
1570
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,834
Recent divorce,
perhaps depressed.
1571
01:12:04,868 --> 01:12:06,901
There's no evidence of
breaking into the house,
1572
01:12:06,934 --> 01:12:09,567
no evidence of rummaging,
no money taken.
1573
01:12:09,601 --> 01:12:11,234
Then, more likely than not,
we begin to think
1574
01:12:11,267 --> 01:12:13,401
that this could be a suicide.
1575
01:12:13,435 --> 01:12:17,701
Let's take the same body,
same pool of blood, same gun,
1576
01:12:17,734 --> 01:12:20,401
same floor, same building.
1577
01:12:20,435 --> 01:12:23,468
The cause of death is still
gunshot wound to the head,
1578
01:12:23,502 --> 01:12:27,334
but if we find out that the
house has been broken into,
1579
01:12:27,367 --> 01:12:28,968
money has been taken,
1580
01:12:29,001 --> 01:12:31,235
the drawers have been
rummaged and disheveled,
1581
01:12:31,268 --> 01:12:32,968
then we begin to suspect
that perhaps
1582
01:12:33,001 --> 01:12:34,933
this could be a homicide.
1583
01:12:38,634 --> 01:12:41,734
[heavy breathing]
1584
01:12:41,767 --> 01:12:44,234
Mr. Cerio will ask you
some questions, Mr. Ward.
1585
01:12:45,701 --> 01:12:50,200
Mr. Ward,
c-can you hear me okay?
1586
01:12:51,601 --> 01:12:55,200
Can you- can you tell us,
sir, your full name?
1587
01:12:55,234 --> 01:12:57,267
Lyman George Ward.
1588
01:12:58,100 --> 01:13:00,234
How old are you, sir?
1589
01:13:00,267 --> 01:13:01,867
How old are you?
1590
01:13:01,900 --> 01:13:03,467
Sixty-six.
1591
01:13:03,501 --> 01:13:04,900
Sixty-six?
1592
01:13:08,934 --> 01:13:12,334
Do you remember
when William died?
1593
01:13:13,234 --> 01:13:15,267
I remember when he died.
1594
01:13:17,933 --> 01:13:20,000
Where were you?
1595
01:13:23,834 --> 01:13:25,367
When he died?
- Yes.
1596
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,801
I must have been in bed.
1597
01:13:27,834 --> 01:13:29,300
- Must have been in bed.
- Huh?
1598
01:13:29,334 --> 01:13:30,734
Must have been in bed.
1599
01:13:30,767 --> 01:13:33,300
[unintelligible mumbling]
1600
01:13:33,334 --> 01:13:34,834
Oh.
1601
01:13:34,868 --> 01:13:37,134
You've answered the question,
Mr. Ward.
1602
01:13:37,168 --> 01:13:38,734
I-I believe his answer was,
"Must have been in bed."
1603
01:13:38,767 --> 01:13:40,700
Is that your answer?
- Mm-hmm.
1604
01:13:41,767 --> 01:13:46,200
Mr. Ward,
before your brother died...
1605
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,766
...was there ever any
conversation...
1606
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,700
...about...
1607
01:13:57,534 --> 01:13:59,067
....ending Bill's life?
1608
01:13:59,100 --> 01:13:59,933
No.
1609
01:14:00,934 --> 01:14:03,067
You never had that
conversation with anyone?
1610
01:14:03,100 --> 01:14:04,434
No.
1611
01:14:06,534 --> 01:14:08,968
Now, this is entitled,
1612
01:14:09,001 --> 01:14:11,000
The Supporting Deposition...
1613
01:14:11,801 --> 01:14:16,068
...and it's dated
June 6th, 1990.
1614
01:14:16,101 --> 01:14:20,334
It reads, "On June 6th, 1990...
1615
01:14:21,234 --> 01:14:24,367
...at 9:30 P.M.
1616
01:14:25,001 --> 01:14:28,901
I... Lyman George Ward,
1617
01:14:28,934 --> 01:14:31,301
state the following:
1618
01:14:31,335 --> 01:14:35,501
Question, "Do you know
how William died?"
1619
01:14:35,534 --> 01:14:38,033
The answer,
"He was smothered."
1620
01:14:39,001 --> 01:14:43,167
Question, "Do you know
who smothered him?"
1621
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,034
The answer, "Delbert."
1622
01:14:45,068 --> 01:14:47,901
Question, "When did Delbert
tell you
1623
01:14:47,934 --> 01:14:50,001
that he smothered your
brother, William?"
1624
01:14:50,034 --> 01:14:52,167
The answer, "This morning,
at the barn."
1625
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,200
[cough]
1626
01:14:56,501 --> 01:14:57,901
[mumbling]
1627
01:14:57,934 --> 01:15:00,034
And, sir, after hearing that,
1628
01:15:00,068 --> 01:15:03,033
do you wanna change
any of your testimony?
1629
01:15:06,367 --> 01:15:07,634
Yeah.
1630
01:15:07,667 --> 01:15:09,467
I'm sorry, Mr... Mr. Ward,
1631
01:15:09,501 --> 01:15:11,001
the Court Reporter
can't hear you
1632
01:15:11,034 --> 01:15:12,501
if you have your arm-
elbow out,
1633
01:15:12,534 --> 01:15:15,901
but if you could turn and
face the jury, thank you.
1634
01:15:15,934 --> 01:15:17,767
Do you want to change
any of your testimony,
1635
01:15:17,801 --> 01:15:19,200
you were asked?
1636
01:15:21,868 --> 01:15:24,368
I won't be here too long.
1637
01:15:24,401 --> 01:15:26,201
His answer was, he wouldn't
be here too long.
1638
01:15:26,235 --> 01:15:28,167
Do you wanna change
any of your testimony?
1639
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:29,700
Would you, John?
1640
01:15:31,034 --> 01:15:33,235
I-I'm sorry...
- You don't have to be.
1641
01:15:33,268 --> 01:15:37,701
Sir, Mr. Cerio was asking you
a question, Mr. Ward.
1642
01:15:37,734 --> 01:15:40,868
His question was, did you
want to change...
1643
01:15:40,901 --> 01:15:43,167
...any of your testimony?
1644
01:15:48,534 --> 01:15:49,400
Yeah.
1645
01:15:49,434 --> 01:15:51,200
The answer is yes.
1646
01:15:52,334 --> 01:15:54,234
What did you want to change
1647
01:15:54,267 --> 01:15:55,800
of your testimony, Mr. Ward?
1648
01:15:55,833 --> 01:15:57,334
[cough]
1649
01:16:01,567 --> 01:16:04,533
Well, all that I said
wasn't true, anyway.
1650
01:16:05,601 --> 01:16:08,834
What he said wasn't true,
anyway, was his answer.
1651
01:16:08,868 --> 01:16:11,167
Did you mean for that
to be true
when you signed it?
1652
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:12,533
No.
1653
01:16:14,367 --> 01:16:16,634
Ladies and gentlemen of the,
uh, jury,
1654
01:16:16,667 --> 01:16:19,434
we'll recess now, uh,
and, uh,
1655
01:16:19,467 --> 01:16:20,534
enjoy the rest of the day.
1656
01:16:20,567 --> 01:16:22,400
We'll see you
tomorrow morning.
1657
01:16:22,434 --> 01:16:23,633
♪♪
1658
01:16:39,001 --> 01:16:41,533
Good morning, Mr. Ward,
have a seat, please.
1659
01:16:53,868 --> 01:16:55,334
Wait just a moment.
1660
01:16:55,367 --> 01:16:56,601
[indistinct]
1661
01:16:56,634 --> 01:16:58,367
That's it.
1662
01:17:01,534 --> 01:17:05,267
You may continue the, uh,
direct examination.
1663
01:17:05,300 --> 01:17:06,667
Your Honor, if I may approach?
1664
01:17:06,701 --> 01:17:08,033
Yes, you may.
1665
01:17:08,934 --> 01:17:10,901
You tell me if you
can't hear me, okay?
1666
01:17:10,934 --> 01:17:13,267
I can't.
- You can't hear me?
1667
01:17:14,067 --> 01:17:16,100
[mumbling]
1668
01:17:18,335 --> 01:17:21,101
Y-You told us that this
was the statement that, uh,
1669
01:17:21,134 --> 01:17:24,368
you had given while you were
at the State Police barracks?
1670
01:17:24,401 --> 01:17:29,068
Question, "Do you know when
Delbert smothered
your brother, William?"
1671
01:17:29,101 --> 01:17:31,901
"About six AM this morning."
1672
01:17:31,934 --> 01:17:33,534
Do you remember
that question?
1673
01:17:33,567 --> 01:17:34,567
Yeah.
1674
01:17:34,601 --> 01:17:36,867
Do you remember
giving that answer?
1675
01:17:37,833 --> 01:17:39,400
No.
1676
01:17:47,667 --> 01:17:50,200
Sir, the question is,
1677
01:17:50,234 --> 01:17:51,567
"How do you know
that Delbert
1678
01:17:51,601 --> 01:17:53,834
smothered your brother,
William?"
1679
01:17:53,868 --> 01:17:56,467
The answer, "He said he did."
1680
01:17:56,501 --> 01:17:57,701
Do you remember
that question?
1681
01:17:57,734 --> 01:17:59,367
Yeah, but he didn't...
1682
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:00,833
But, sir, do you remember
the question?
1683
01:18:00,867 --> 01:18:01,968
Yeah.
1684
01:18:02,001 --> 01:18:04,033
Do you remember giving that
answer, "Yes, he did.
1685
01:18:04,067 --> 01:18:05,133
He said he did?"
1686
01:18:05,167 --> 01:18:07,100
Yeah, but he didn't.
1687
01:18:09,601 --> 01:18:11,833
[man]
What did he say?
1688
01:18:11,867 --> 01:18:13,068
[coughing]
1689
01:18:13,101 --> 01:18:15,234
The answer was,
"He didn't."
1690
01:18:20,434 --> 01:18:24,300
I think, I think
the question is, uh...
1691
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,666
Mr. Ward.
1692
01:18:28,868 --> 01:18:30,833
We'll take a ten minute recess.
1693
01:18:33,033 --> 01:18:34,766
The Jury may step aside.
1694
01:19:20,868 --> 01:19:22,534
Just makes you sick.
1695
01:19:22,567 --> 01:19:26,834
Cruelty to animals,
let alone human beings.
1696
01:19:26,868 --> 01:19:28,300
That's cruel!
1697
01:19:28,334 --> 01:19:29,968
He's illiterate, completely.
1698
01:19:30,001 --> 01:19:31,667
He can't even tell time.
1699
01:19:31,701 --> 01:19:33,534
Trying to get him to read
a goddamn thing
1700
01:19:33,567 --> 01:19:36,900
that Donnegan wrote,
bullshit.
1701
01:19:36,933 --> 01:19:38,833
[dogs barking]
1702
01:19:41,501 --> 01:19:43,734
[cows mooing]
1703
01:19:43,767 --> 01:19:45,900
[Interviewer] The courthouse
the other day, how was that?
1704
01:19:45,933 --> 01:19:47,334
I went to pieces.
1705
01:19:47,367 --> 01:19:49,334
I all went to pieces.
1706
01:19:49,367 --> 01:19:51,234
Damn near died down there.
1707
01:19:52,634 --> 01:19:54,566
Yeah, we felt bad for you.
1708
01:19:56,767 --> 01:19:58,334
It's okay, Lyman.
1709
01:19:58,367 --> 01:19:59,600
It's over.
1710
01:20:03,068 --> 01:20:05,033
- I couldn't take it.
- No.
1711
01:20:12,734 --> 01:20:14,701
- Hey, Roscoe.
- Yeah?
1712
01:20:14,734 --> 01:20:16,567
Did you hear what happened
down at the courthouse?
1713
01:20:16,601 --> 01:20:18,300
- Yeah.
- To Lyman?
1714
01:20:18,334 --> 01:20:19,467
Yeah.
1715
01:20:19,501 --> 01:20:21,033
What- what'd you hear
about it?
1716
01:20:21,067 --> 01:20:22,867
He pretty near died.
1717
01:20:24,734 --> 01:20:26,501
Pretty near died.
1718
01:20:27,967 --> 01:20:29,467
♪♪
1719
01:20:48,934 --> 01:20:50,968
[Cognetti] Can you identify
that for us, Doctor?
1720
01:20:51,001 --> 01:20:56,968
Yes, we have one, two, three,
four, five containers
1721
01:20:57,001 --> 01:20:59,034
holding various specimens
1722
01:20:59,068 --> 01:21:03,901
from Medical Examiner
case number 900391.
1723
01:21:03,934 --> 01:21:05,034
And who would that be?
1724
01:21:05,068 --> 01:21:07,334
That would be William Ward.
1725
01:21:09,168 --> 01:21:11,734
Can you identify that for us?
1726
01:21:11,767 --> 01:21:14,401
People's exhibit 21
1727
01:21:14,435 --> 01:21:18,968
identifies the head
and regions of the neck
1728
01:21:19,001 --> 01:21:22,301
of case number 90 dash 0391.
1729
01:21:22,335 --> 01:21:24,300
How is it that you can
identify this?
1730
01:21:24,334 --> 01:21:25,968
The identifying numbers
1731
01:21:26,001 --> 01:21:29,001
are right here
on the front part
of the neck.
1732
01:21:29,034 --> 01:21:31,901
Doctor, after having
photographed there,
what did you do?
1733
01:21:31,934 --> 01:21:34,235
I then continued examining
the eyes.
1734
01:21:34,268 --> 01:21:36,834
I looked at the upper eyelids
and lower eyelids,
1735
01:21:36,868 --> 01:21:38,068
and in the lower eyelids,
1736
01:21:38,101 --> 01:21:39,801
I noticed what
are called petechiae.
1737
01:21:39,834 --> 01:21:42,235
I also examined
the dental arches.
1738
01:21:42,268 --> 01:21:45,634
Uh, the individual, uh,
had no teeth,
1739
01:21:45,667 --> 01:21:48,268
and what I noticed was,
on the upper dental arch,
1740
01:21:48,301 --> 01:21:51,734
on the right side, there was
also these diffuse petechiae,
1741
01:21:51,767 --> 01:21:54,334
or pinpoint blood spots.
1742
01:21:54,367 --> 01:21:56,400
All throughout the windpipe,
1743
01:21:56,434 --> 01:21:58,901
beginning with the little
blade on top,
1744
01:21:58,934 --> 01:22:02,001
called the epiglottis,
down to the windpipe,
1745
01:22:02,034 --> 01:22:03,567
where it breaks in half
1746
01:22:03,601 --> 01:22:05,734
to feed the right lung
and the left lung,
1747
01:22:05,767 --> 01:22:07,501
had multiple, uh,
1748
01:22:07,534 --> 01:22:11,367
numerous of these red
pinpoint bloody spots.
1749
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:14,667
With that diffuse spray
of petechiae,
1750
01:22:14,701 --> 01:22:17,334
the large numbers of
petechiae that were there
1751
01:22:17,367 --> 01:22:19,134
and their distribution,
1752
01:22:19,168 --> 01:22:21,400
I first began to think
that we may be dealing with
1753
01:22:21,434 --> 01:22:24,234
an asphyxial type of death.
1754
01:22:24,267 --> 01:22:25,535
In my opinion,
1755
01:22:25,568 --> 01:22:28,634
based upon a reasonable
degree of medical certainty,
1756
01:22:28,667 --> 01:22:31,534
this is not a case
of asphyxiation.
1757
01:22:31,567 --> 01:22:35,567
There are, uh, four
significant, uh, findings
1758
01:22:35,601 --> 01:22:41,300
that I would look for
in a case of asphyxiation,
1759
01:22:41,334 --> 01:22:44,000
that are not present
in this case.
1760
01:22:44,033 --> 01:22:45,367
No cyanosis,
1761
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:47,134
no increased liquidity
of blood,
1762
01:22:47,168 --> 01:22:49,734
no injuries
around the nose, mouth,
1763
01:22:49,767 --> 01:22:52,334
gums, chin, tongue,
1764
01:22:52,367 --> 01:22:54,133
and, um,
1765
01:22:54,167 --> 01:22:56,734
the absence of...
1766
01:22:56,767 --> 01:23:00,901
even the slightest suggestion
of regurgitation.
1767
01:23:00,934 --> 01:23:03,534
When you are
being asphyxiated,
1768
01:23:03,567 --> 01:23:06,467
you are struggling
and gasping for air,
1769
01:23:06,501 --> 01:23:08,167
food is gonna come back up
on you,
1770
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:09,400
you're gonna start retching.
1771
01:23:09,434 --> 01:23:11,667
There is none of that,
whatsoever.
1772
01:23:11,701 --> 01:23:12,734
Zero.
1773
01:23:13,767 --> 01:23:15,833
[metal clattering]
1774
01:23:28,267 --> 01:23:29,833
[clearing throat]
1775
01:23:33,167 --> 01:23:34,334
[quiet shot]
1776
01:23:34,367 --> 01:23:36,334
[pig squealing]
1777
01:23:46,067 --> 01:23:48,200
Roll over, goddamn you.
1778
01:24:57,301 --> 01:24:59,034
Delbert, you wanna grab me
that meat cleaver
1779
01:24:59,068 --> 01:25:01,235
and knife sharpener
out the front passenger seat?
1780
01:25:01,268 --> 01:25:04,067
You have to get in my door,
that one's locked.
1781
01:25:04,100 --> 01:25:06,867
[motor whirring]
1782
01:25:43,567 --> 01:25:45,167
Thanks, Moses.
1783
01:25:49,101 --> 01:25:51,001
[Cognetti] Doctor, it's true,
is it not,
1784
01:25:51,034 --> 01:25:52,801
that at the conclusion
of your internal
1785
01:25:52,834 --> 01:25:55,868
and external examination,
you could not say,
1786
01:25:55,901 --> 01:25:59,300
with a required degree
of medical certainty,
1787
01:25:59,334 --> 01:26:01,667
the cause or the manner
of death?
1788
01:26:01,701 --> 01:26:03,033
That is correct.
1789
01:26:03,067 --> 01:26:04,635
By that, I mean to say,
1790
01:26:04,668 --> 01:26:07,567
you couldn't, certainly with
any degree of-of certainty,
1791
01:26:07,601 --> 01:26:09,200
indicate that it was
a homicide.
1792
01:26:09,234 --> 01:26:10,667
That is correct.
1793
01:26:10,701 --> 01:26:12,667
But now, you're talking
with Mr. Cerio,
1794
01:26:12,701 --> 01:26:14,201
and your notes indicate
1795
01:26:14,235 --> 01:26:17,200
that you tell him that I
cannot rule out homicide.
1796
01:26:17,234 --> 01:26:19,368
Am I right?
- That is correct.
1797
01:26:19,401 --> 01:26:22,634
Once you got to the scene,
Doctor, uh,
1798
01:26:22,667 --> 01:26:24,834
were not you advised,
immediately,
1799
01:26:24,868 --> 01:26:27,000
to call the State Police
barracks in Oneida?
1800
01:26:27,033 --> 01:26:28,367
We were.
1801
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,034
And, at the conclusion
of this call,
1802
01:26:30,068 --> 01:26:33,034
did he not tell you
that Delbert had confessed
1803
01:26:33,068 --> 01:26:35,033
to the killing
of his brother?
1804
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:37,967
Yes.
1805
01:26:38,834 --> 01:26:41,567
So that death certificate,
Doctor,
1806
01:26:41,601 --> 01:26:45,601
came about as a result
of your learning
1807
01:26:45,634 --> 01:26:48,068
that Mr. Ward had confessed
1808
01:26:48,101 --> 01:26:50,567
to the crime of murder
in the second degree?
1809
01:26:50,601 --> 01:26:51,701
No.
1810
01:26:51,734 --> 01:26:54,134
Doctor, if you
had never learned
1811
01:26:54,168 --> 01:26:57,968
that Mr. Ward...
had confessed
1812
01:26:58,001 --> 01:27:00,234
to the crime of murder
in the second degree,
1813
01:27:00,267 --> 01:27:01,867
would you...
1814
01:27:03,535 --> 01:27:07,467
...on June 7th, have changed
that death certificate?
1815
01:27:07,501 --> 01:27:08,634
No.
1816
01:27:08,667 --> 01:27:10,501
So, let me go back then,
Doctor.
1817
01:27:10,534 --> 01:27:13,868
That death certificate
was changed
1818
01:27:13,901 --> 01:27:17,234
because you now learned
1819
01:27:17,267 --> 01:27:19,667
that Mr. Ward had confessed
1820
01:27:19,701 --> 01:27:22,468
to the crime of murder
in the second degree?
1821
01:27:22,502 --> 01:27:25,868
But that was not the only
piece of information.
1822
01:27:25,901 --> 01:27:28,034
We know about the petechiae.
1823
01:27:28,068 --> 01:27:29,200
Correct?
- Correct.
1824
01:27:29,234 --> 01:27:30,734
But we know, Doctor,
1825
01:27:30,767 --> 01:27:33,400
as we talked about
innumerable times yesterday,
1826
01:27:33,434 --> 01:27:35,534
that at that stage,
1827
01:27:35,567 --> 01:27:38,367
there were a host of reasons
for petechiae.
1828
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:39,801
That is correct.
1829
01:27:39,834 --> 01:27:41,667
So, we'll put that aside.
1830
01:27:41,701 --> 01:27:44,235
Because, as you
just indicated,
1831
01:27:44,268 --> 01:27:47,134
that would not
have been enough...
1832
01:27:47,168 --> 01:27:50,234
...to warrant a change
in that death certificate
1833
01:27:50,267 --> 01:27:51,534
on June 7th.
1834
01:27:51,567 --> 01:27:53,167
That's correct.
1835
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:55,401
So again, let me ask you.
1836
01:27:55,435 --> 01:28:01,133
That death certificate
was changed, on June 7th,
1837
01:28:01,167 --> 01:28:03,368
for the sole reason
1838
01:28:03,401 --> 01:28:06,801
that Mr. Ward had confessed
to the crime.
1839
01:28:06,834 --> 01:28:09,801
Isn't that the reason,
on June 7th,
1840
01:28:09,834 --> 01:28:11,967
that that death certificate
was changed?
1841
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:13,400
No.
1842
01:28:14,401 --> 01:28:16,400
[Dr. Wecht] In my opinion,
the cause of death
1843
01:28:16,434 --> 01:28:21,501
of Mr. William Ward
was right heart failure,
1844
01:28:21,534 --> 01:28:25,068
resulting in pulmonary edema,
1845
01:28:25,101 --> 01:28:29,133
the, uh, collection of a
substantial amount of fluid
1846
01:28:29,167 --> 01:28:30,700
in the lungs.
1847
01:28:31,934 --> 01:28:35,168
[Delbert]
I tried to tell him
I didn't do it...
1848
01:28:35,201 --> 01:28:39,534
...and Geen Rifenberg
and "Kellogg" said I did.
1849
01:28:39,567 --> 01:28:40,334
[Cerio]
Okay.
1850
01:28:40,367 --> 01:28:41,901
They kept right after me
1851
01:28:41,934 --> 01:28:44,034
and said if I cooperated
with the police,
1852
01:28:44,068 --> 01:28:45,367
they'd go much easier on me.
1853
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:46,968
Mm-hmm.
1854
01:28:47,001 --> 01:28:49,534
So, finally, I thought
if I cooperated with 'em,
1855
01:28:49,567 --> 01:28:50,766
I'd get out of there
and get home.
1856
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:51,734
Okay.
1857
01:28:51,767 --> 01:28:53,167
But I didn't.
- You didn't?
1858
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:54,134
No.
1859
01:28:54,168 --> 01:28:55,501
You were gonna cooperate
with them?
1860
01:28:55,534 --> 01:28:59,134
Yes, and Mr. Rifenburg
is the one who showed me
1861
01:28:59,168 --> 01:29:02,667
how I put my hand over
William's mouth and nose.
1862
01:29:02,701 --> 01:29:04,168
Uh-huh.
1863
01:29:04,201 --> 01:29:05,501
And that happened
in that room?
1864
01:29:05,534 --> 01:29:06,801
That happened in that room.
1865
01:29:06,834 --> 01:29:08,534
It's not that you showed him
how it happened?
1866
01:29:08,567 --> 01:29:11,200
No, I didn't how him.
He showed me.
1867
01:29:12,902 --> 01:29:16,300
Mr. Ward, what other kind
of shows do you watch
besides Westerns?
1868
01:29:16,334 --> 01:29:18,300
Oh, some of the police stories.
1869
01:29:18,334 --> 01:29:20,068
Police stories?
- Mm-hmm.
1870
01:29:20,101 --> 01:29:21,501
What kind of police
story shows?
1871
01:29:21,534 --> 01:29:23,467
Like "Matlock" there
and "Heat of the Night."
1872
01:29:23,501 --> 01:29:25,868
That's about the only two.
1873
01:29:25,901 --> 01:29:27,200
Okay, ever watch "Hunter?"
1874
01:29:27,234 --> 01:29:29,235
No.
- Never saw "Hunter?"
1875
01:29:29,268 --> 01:29:31,567
A couple times, a little bit,
I-I didn't care for it.
1876
01:29:31,601 --> 01:29:33,901
Didn't care for it?
Okay.
1877
01:29:33,934 --> 01:29:35,567
When do they come on,
during the day?
1878
01:29:35,601 --> 01:29:36,767
No.
1879
01:29:36,801 --> 01:29:38,467
What time do they come on?
- Eight o'clock at night.
1880
01:29:38,501 --> 01:29:40,234
"Matlock" comes on
Tuesday nights.
1881
01:29:40,267 --> 01:29:41,501
Tuesday nights.
1882
01:29:41,534 --> 01:29:43,133
What's "Matlock?"
1883
01:29:43,167 --> 01:29:44,967
Remember Andy Griffith?
1884
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:46,001
Yep.
1885
01:29:46,034 --> 01:29:47,901
That's- that's the one
I'm talkin' about.
1886
01:29:47,934 --> 01:29:51,300
Only, he calls himself,
Ben Matlock, for the lawyer.
1887
01:29:51,334 --> 01:29:52,534
Oh, he's a lawyer now?
1888
01:29:52,567 --> 01:29:53,567
Right.
1889
01:29:53,601 --> 01:29:55,033
Do you know what kind
of a lawyer he is?
1890
01:29:55,067 --> 01:29:56,167
Defense lawyer.
1891
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:57,801
He's not a prosecutor?
1892
01:29:57,834 --> 01:29:59,334
He's a de-defense lawyer?
1893
01:29:59,367 --> 01:30:00,567
He's a defense lawyer,
I think.
1894
01:30:00,601 --> 01:30:01,400
Okay.
1895
01:30:02,434 --> 01:30:04,501
I know he gets into a lot
of them murder trials.
1896
01:30:04,534 --> 01:30:05,801
Mm-hmm.
1897
01:30:05,834 --> 01:30:07,334
You ever watch
"Wheel of Fortune?"
1898
01:30:07,367 --> 01:30:09,201
Yes, I watch that
some nights.
1899
01:30:09,235 --> 01:30:11,834
Do you know, uh, the girl
who's on "Wheel of Fortune?"
1900
01:30:11,868 --> 01:30:13,434
Amanda White.
1901
01:30:15,033 --> 01:30:17,168
And, uh...
1902
01:30:17,201 --> 01:30:19,400
...any other kind of shows
you watch?
1903
01:30:19,434 --> 01:30:21,501
Oh, yes, I watch that
"Jeopardy."
1904
01:30:21,534 --> 01:30:22,701
"Jeopardy?"
- Mm-hmm.
1905
01:30:22,734 --> 01:30:24,301
You try to answer
some of the questions?
1906
01:30:24,335 --> 01:30:26,100
Some of 'em, but I don't get
very far on 'em.
1907
01:30:26,133 --> 01:30:27,566
No? Okay.
1908
01:30:28,567 --> 01:30:30,301
I want to show you something,
Mr. Ward.
1909
01:30:30,335 --> 01:30:32,801
This is what's marked
as People's 19.
1910
01:30:32,834 --> 01:30:33,901
Can you take a look at that
for me?
1911
01:30:33,934 --> 01:30:35,001
I can't see it.
- Can't see it.
1912
01:30:35,034 --> 01:30:36,334
- No.
- You can't see this?
1913
01:30:36,367 --> 01:30:37,567
No, not without my glasses.
1914
01:30:37,601 --> 01:30:39,033
I see.
1915
01:30:40,235 --> 01:30:41,734
You can't read any of this?
- No.
1916
01:30:41,767 --> 01:30:43,168
Not at all?
- No.
1917
01:30:43,201 --> 01:30:46,033
You didn't bring
your glasses?
- No, I didn't bring 'em.
1918
01:30:46,067 --> 01:30:47,501
They's no good anyway.
1919
01:30:47,534 --> 01:30:48,700
- I see.
1920
01:30:50,001 --> 01:30:51,868
Did you ever want
your own bed?
1921
01:30:51,901 --> 01:30:53,701
Sometimes, but I didn't
have it.
1922
01:30:53,734 --> 01:30:55,033
Ever want your own room?
1923
01:30:55,067 --> 01:30:56,533
Sometimes.
1924
01:30:57,701 --> 01:30:59,701
Did it bother you when
William would get up
1925
01:30:59,734 --> 01:31:01,068
in the middle of the night?
1926
01:31:01,101 --> 01:31:02,401
Well, sometimes he'd holler
at me,
1927
01:31:02,435 --> 01:31:04,167
tell me it was time to get up
and go get the cows
1928
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:05,467
and put them in to milk them.
1929
01:31:05,501 --> 01:31:07,101
Go do the chores?
- Mm-hmm.
1930
01:31:07,134 --> 01:31:08,868
But it wasn't time?
- No.
1931
01:31:08,901 --> 01:31:10,701
So, he'd wake you up?
- He'd still wake you up.
1932
01:31:10,734 --> 01:31:12,401
Yeah.
1933
01:31:12,435 --> 01:31:14,567
And he'd do that a couple of
times during the night,
wouldn't he?
1934
01:31:14,601 --> 01:31:15,566
Some nights.
1935
01:31:16,667 --> 01:31:18,467
So, you wouldn't get
too much sleep, would you?
1936
01:31:18,501 --> 01:31:19,834
Not all the while.
1937
01:31:19,868 --> 01:31:22,734
Will was having some problem
holding his water, wasn't he?
1938
01:31:22,767 --> 01:31:24,701
Yes, he couldn't
hold it good.
1939
01:31:24,734 --> 01:31:25,833
He'd wake you up,
wouldn't he?
1940
01:31:25,867 --> 01:31:27,567
Sometimes.
1941
01:31:27,601 --> 01:31:29,901
Now, you said that, uh,
1942
01:31:29,934 --> 01:31:32,133
Bill had the headaches and
the stomachaches, right?
1943
01:31:32,167 --> 01:31:33,168
Right.
1944
01:31:33,201 --> 01:31:35,001
Did he ever say anything
to you about, uh,
1945
01:31:35,034 --> 01:31:36,968
if he died,
what would happen?
1946
01:31:37,001 --> 01:31:39,701
Yes, he said, some morning,
I wasn't gonna wake up and...
1947
01:31:39,734 --> 01:31:42,634
[stammering] one of us would
be arrested for his murder.
1948
01:31:42,667 --> 01:31:44,734
That's what he told you?
- That's what he told me.
1949
01:31:44,767 --> 01:31:47,134
Told me, told me outdoors.
1950
01:31:47,168 --> 01:31:48,801
- Told you outdoors, he did?
- Mm-hmm.
1951
01:31:48,834 --> 01:31:50,334
When did he tell you that?
1952
01:31:51,435 --> 01:31:54,067
Well, I don't know,
must've been April or May.
1953
01:31:57,235 --> 01:31:59,434
He said that he was gonna die
some night?
1954
01:31:59,467 --> 01:32:00,834
That's what he said.
1955
01:32:00,868 --> 01:32:02,868
And that, uh,
1956
01:32:02,901 --> 01:32:05,200
one of you would be arrested
for his murder?
1957
01:32:05,234 --> 01:32:06,534
Yes.
- That's what he said?
1958
01:32:06,567 --> 01:32:08,067
That's what he said.
1959
01:32:09,134 --> 01:32:10,134
Would you raise
your hands, sir,
1960
01:32:10,168 --> 01:32:11,868
and show those to
the jury, please.
1961
01:32:11,901 --> 01:32:13,401
Thank you, sir.
1962
01:32:13,435 --> 01:32:16,000
[Judge]
The record should reflect
he's done that.
1963
01:32:16,033 --> 01:32:17,367
♪♪
1964
01:32:21,068 --> 01:32:23,200
In case, uh, Delbert
goes to jail,
1965
01:32:23,234 --> 01:32:26,167
or something
happens to him,
1966
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:27,534
we had to
make out a will,
1967
01:32:27,567 --> 01:32:30,068
so that the stuff would go
where he wanted it to go,
1968
01:32:30,101 --> 01:32:31,834
and not where the
State wants it to go,
1969
01:32:31,868 --> 01:32:34,368
and the way things have been
going against us all the way
1970
01:32:34,401 --> 01:32:38,468
so far, there's a real good
possibility of it.
1971
01:32:38,502 --> 01:32:40,767
It's like I explained to
Delbert, didn't I, Delbert?
1972
01:32:40,801 --> 01:32:41,767
I didn't...
1973
01:32:41,801 --> 01:32:43,001
You explained it to me.
1974
01:32:43,034 --> 01:32:44,801
...tell him that things
looked good or rosy.
1975
01:32:44,834 --> 01:32:46,635
I told him there's a damn
good looking chance
1976
01:32:46,668 --> 01:32:49,167
that he's gonna go to prison
for something he didn't do.
1977
01:32:50,601 --> 01:32:53,033
I don't feel good about it.
1978
01:32:53,067 --> 01:32:54,766
I may go to jail.
1979
01:32:55,767 --> 01:32:57,334
I may not live long.
1980
01:33:00,368 --> 01:33:02,235
What type of person did the
State Police believe
1981
01:33:02,268 --> 01:33:04,634
they were bringing to the
barracks that night?
1982
01:33:04,667 --> 01:33:07,400
I would submit, that they
felt they were bringing
1983
01:33:07,434 --> 01:33:10,467
a bunch of queer
old farmers,
1984
01:33:10,501 --> 01:33:13,901
who lived like animals, who
were stupid...
1985
01:33:13,934 --> 01:33:16,901
...and ignorant, without
a friend in the world.
1986
01:33:16,934 --> 01:33:18,267
Do you really wanna believe
1987
01:33:18,300 --> 01:33:20,734
that the New York State Police,
1988
01:33:20,767 --> 01:33:24,667
the Medical Examiners
of Onondaga County,
1989
01:33:24,701 --> 01:33:28,534
decided to pick
on Delbert Ward
1990
01:33:28,567 --> 01:33:29,868
for no other reason than,
1991
01:33:29,901 --> 01:33:31,467
"Let's come up
with a homicide.
1992
01:33:31,501 --> 01:33:32,968
Let's come up with a murder,
1993
01:33:33,001 --> 01:33:36,467
and let's pick out
that man to do it."
1994
01:33:36,501 --> 01:33:39,034
We know him to be educably,
1995
01:33:39,068 --> 01:33:42,833
mentally retarded with
a schizoid personality.
1996
01:33:43,934 --> 01:33:46,502
William was 64 years of age,
ladies and gentlemen.
1997
01:33:46,535 --> 01:33:51,968
He died a natural death in
his sleep from heart failure,
1998
01:33:52,001 --> 01:33:55,300
the most common form of
death of a man that age.
1999
01:33:55,334 --> 01:33:57,067
You, ladies and gentlemen,
2000
01:33:57,100 --> 01:33:58,766
saw the defendant testify.
2001
01:34:01,101 --> 01:34:03,434
You make the assessment
as to whether or not...
2002
01:34:06,734 --> 01:34:08,834
...he's an
intelligent fellow.
2003
01:34:08,868 --> 01:34:11,900
Yeah, are there some
social deprivations?
2004
01:34:11,933 --> 01:34:13,334
Yes.
2005
01:34:13,367 --> 01:34:15,667
I don't think you
can dispute that.
2006
01:34:15,701 --> 01:34:18,901
Does this person
appear to simply be
2007
01:34:18,934 --> 01:34:23,234
a person with an IQ of 63 and
educably, mentally retarded?
2008
01:34:23,267 --> 01:34:25,434
Or does it appear
to be higher?
2009
01:34:25,467 --> 01:34:28,667
There is no independent
medical proof which,
2010
01:34:28,701 --> 01:34:31,834
standing alone without
that confession,
2011
01:34:31,868 --> 01:34:36,667
says that William died
as a result of a murder.
2012
01:34:36,701 --> 01:34:39,133
The only thing that has been
given to you people
2013
01:34:39,167 --> 01:34:41,234
is this alleged confession.
2014
01:34:42,300 --> 01:34:44,301
Taken from a man
2015
01:34:44,335 --> 01:34:49,033
whose very appearance cries
out for special treatment.
2016
01:34:52,201 --> 01:34:55,335
As expected, both sides gave
strong closing arguments,
2017
01:34:55,368 --> 01:34:57,567
and after three weeks
of emotional testimony,
2018
01:34:57,601 --> 01:34:58,901
the fate of Delbert Ward
2019
01:34:58,934 --> 01:35:00,901
now rests in
the hands of the jury.
2020
01:35:00,934 --> 01:35:02,900
Paula Garell, Channel 3 News.
2021
01:35:04,701 --> 01:35:08,900
Um, I -I wanna say the jury
is now deliberating.
2022
01:35:08,933 --> 01:35:10,501
♪♪
2023
01:35:18,734 --> 01:35:19,868
How's Mr. Ward doing?
2024
01:35:19,901 --> 01:35:22,034
- He's fine.
- Nervous?
2025
01:35:22,068 --> 01:35:24,434
He's as nervous
as any of us, I'm sure.
2026
01:35:26,067 --> 01:35:27,501
Is that it?
2027
01:35:27,534 --> 01:35:28,801
Thanks, Ralph.
2028
01:35:28,834 --> 01:35:32,434
[faint chatter]
2029
01:35:36,667 --> 01:35:37,833
[coughing]
2030
01:35:45,401 --> 01:35:47,535
[Male Reporter]
Time for an update, now, on
tonight's top stories.
2031
01:35:47,568 --> 01:35:49,335
[Female Reporter]
First, go live
to Christie Casciano
2032
01:35:49,368 --> 01:35:51,268
at the Delbert Ward
trial in Wampsville.
2033
01:35:51,301 --> 01:35:53,468
Christie, what's happened
over the last hour?
2034
01:35:53,502 --> 01:35:56,667
Well, since we last talked,
the jury left, as we said,
2035
01:35:56,701 --> 01:35:59,201
for a dinner break, and the
verdict has not been quick
2036
01:35:59,235 --> 01:36:02,334
in coming, as some courtroom
observers have predicted.
2037
01:36:02,367 --> 01:36:04,001
The jury has the task
2038
01:36:04,034 --> 01:36:06,400
of deciding whether Delbert
Ward committed murder.
2039
01:36:06,434 --> 01:36:08,367
Whether he
suffocated his brother
2040
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:10,467
on their Stockbridge
farm last June.
2041
01:36:10,501 --> 01:36:13,235
The jury got the case
at 11:30 this morning.
2042
01:36:13,268 --> 01:36:15,200
Since that time, they've been
weighing evidence,
2043
01:36:15,234 --> 01:36:16,901
sifting through testimony,
2044
01:36:16,934 --> 01:36:19,334
and they've been at
it for about six hours.
2045
01:36:19,367 --> 01:36:21,267
They left the
courtroom, as we said,
2046
01:36:21,300 --> 01:36:23,067
about a half hour ago,
six o'clock.
2047
01:36:23,100 --> 01:36:24,201
They're on a dinner break.
2048
01:36:24,235 --> 01:36:26,501
They're expected back
here at eight o'clock,
2049
01:36:26,534 --> 01:36:28,701
and we will
be back here, too,
2050
01:36:28,734 --> 01:36:30,134
and bringing you
the latest at 11.
2051
01:36:30,168 --> 01:36:32,300
Right now, let's
go to Lisa Sweitzer
2052
01:36:32,334 --> 01:36:34,400
for more of today's
top stories.
2053
01:36:35,534 --> 01:36:36,968
[Judge] Uh, ladies and
gentlemen, the, uh,
2054
01:36:37,001 --> 01:36:38,501
jury has advised the court
2055
01:36:38,534 --> 01:36:39,667
that they have
reached a verdict,
2056
01:36:39,701 --> 01:36:42,468
and I now admonish all of
those here in the courtroom,
2057
01:36:42,502 --> 01:36:47,701
including spectators, that
you are to remain seated
2058
01:36:47,734 --> 01:36:49,734
throughout the entire
2059
01:36:49,767 --> 01:36:52,168
reporting of the
verdict procedure.
2060
01:36:52,201 --> 01:36:54,334
In the event that there
should be any violations
2061
01:36:54,367 --> 01:36:56,367
of that, I will
close the courtroom,
2062
01:36:56,400 --> 01:36:58,868
you will be escorted
from the courtroom,
2063
01:36:58,901 --> 01:37:01,335
and you can find about,
find out the verdict
2064
01:37:01,368 --> 01:37:03,534
by either reading about
it in the newspaper
2065
01:37:03,567 --> 01:37:05,534
or seeing it on television.
2066
01:37:05,567 --> 01:37:08,868
There are to be
no audible reactions
2067
01:37:08,901 --> 01:37:12,567
or emotional outbursts by
anyone in this room,
2068
01:37:12,601 --> 01:37:16,367
and I mean that, and if
there are any outbursts,
2069
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:19,301
I'm gonna empty
the whole courtroom.
2070
01:37:19,335 --> 01:37:20,900
The jurors may return
to the courtroom.
2071
01:37:23,133 --> 01:37:24,200
[coughing]
2072
01:37:43,401 --> 01:37:46,701
Ladies and gentlemen of the
jury, I understand, uh, from
2073
01:37:46,734 --> 01:37:49,234
the court clerk, that the,
uh, jury has, in fact,
2074
01:37:49,267 --> 01:37:50,868
reached a verdict,
and, uh,
2075
01:37:50,901 --> 01:37:53,167
- Mr. Broderick, is that so?
- Yes, sir.
2076
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:54,235
All right.
2077
01:37:54,268 --> 01:37:56,666
The court attendant will
receive the card.
2078
01:38:08,034 --> 01:38:10,200
Mr, uh, Broderick, the, uh,
2079
01:38:10,234 --> 01:38:12,668
court has, uh, received the
2080
01:38:12,702 --> 01:38:15,300
verdict sheet, and I now ask
you, as the foreman of this
2081
01:38:15,334 --> 01:38:16,667
jury, have you, in fact,
2082
01:38:16,701 --> 01:38:18,667
reached a verdict
in this case?
2083
01:38:18,701 --> 01:38:19,834
Yes, they have.
2084
01:38:19,868 --> 01:38:22,334
What is the verdict
of this jury
2085
01:38:22,367 --> 01:38:23,667
in connection with the crime
2086
01:38:23,701 --> 01:38:25,401
of murder in the
second degree?
2087
01:38:25,435 --> 01:38:28,601
Have you found the defendant
guilty or not guilty?
2088
01:38:28,634 --> 01:38:29,767
- Not guilty.
- Not guilty.
2089
01:38:29,801 --> 01:38:32,734
- Not guilty.
[crowd murmuring]
2090
01:38:32,767 --> 01:38:36,801
Ladies and gentlemen
of this jury, the, uh,
2091
01:38:36,834 --> 01:38:39,567
court had heard Mr. Broderick
announce that the verdict
2092
01:38:39,601 --> 01:38:42,868
is that of not guilty of
murder in the second degree.
2093
01:38:42,901 --> 01:38:44,634
I now ask all of you, uh,
2094
01:38:44,667 --> 01:38:47,067
is this your verdict,
so say you all?
2095
01:38:47,100 --> 01:38:48,235
[Jury]
Yes.
2096
01:38:48,268 --> 01:38:51,134
Mr. Ward, you are excused
now, and you can leave.
2097
01:38:51,168 --> 01:38:54,033
We'll ask the, uh,
media to step aside
2098
01:38:54,067 --> 01:38:55,234
so that you can leave.
2099
01:38:56,235 --> 01:38:57,501
Thank you very much,
ladies and gentlemen
2100
01:38:57,534 --> 01:38:58,767
for your respect
and attention.
2101
01:38:58,801 --> 01:39:01,367
[applause]
2102
01:39:06,634 --> 01:39:07,667
God bless you.
2103
01:39:07,701 --> 01:39:08,801
[Male Reporter 1]
So, that smile says it all?
2104
01:39:08,834 --> 01:39:09,834
- Yup.
- Yup.
2105
01:39:09,868 --> 01:39:11,768
Thank all my friends.
2106
01:39:11,802 --> 01:39:13,534
[Female Reporter]
What's next for you, Delbert,
back to the farm?
2107
01:39:13,567 --> 01:39:14,901
Back to the farm.
2108
01:39:14,934 --> 01:39:16,200
[Male Reporter 2]
How does it feel, Mr. Ward?
2109
01:39:16,234 --> 01:39:17,201
[Thurston]
You got it, buddy.
2110
01:39:17,235 --> 01:39:20,334
[Interviewer]
Harry, how do you feel?
2111
01:39:20,367 --> 01:39:22,033
My heart ain't
gone back down yet.
2112
01:39:22,067 --> 01:39:23,034
[laughing]
2113
01:39:23,068 --> 01:39:24,201
But I'll get it
down by morning.
2114
01:39:24,235 --> 01:39:26,400
Did you think it was
gonna turn out this way?
2115
01:39:26,434 --> 01:39:28,801
The system works, don't it?
2116
01:39:28,834 --> 01:39:30,168
What do you think, Delbert?
2117
01:39:30,201 --> 01:39:32,200
I thought it might,
but I wasn't sure.
2118
01:39:32,234 --> 01:39:34,501
I'll get home
as soon as I can.
2119
01:39:34,534 --> 01:39:37,334
I love you, babe.
Goodbye.
2120
01:39:37,367 --> 01:39:38,567
Thanks.
Bye.
2121
01:39:38,601 --> 01:39:39,601
[Interviewer]
How do you feel?
2122
01:39:39,634 --> 01:39:40,601
Damn.
Sh--.
2123
01:39:40,634 --> 01:39:42,133
How do I feel?
2124
01:39:42,167 --> 01:39:43,134
I'm very, very happy.
2125
01:39:43,168 --> 01:39:44,200
What's all this
noise out here?
2126
01:39:44,234 --> 01:39:45,268
Looks like a wedding.
2127
01:39:45,301 --> 01:39:46,601
Are you kidding me,
they won't get to sleep
2128
01:39:46,634 --> 01:39:47,801
tonight and, uh...
Not in Munnsville.
2129
01:39:47,834 --> 01:39:48,901
Not in Munnsville.
2130
01:39:48,934 --> 01:39:50,400
You goin' to Disneyland now?
2131
01:39:50,434 --> 01:39:52,434
[sigh]
[laughing]
2132
01:39:52,467 --> 01:39:54,168
I listened to all
of the evidence,
2133
01:39:54,201 --> 01:39:56,134
and I could find no
solid evidence to prove
2134
01:39:56,168 --> 01:39:58,300
that even a crime
had been committed.
2135
01:39:58,334 --> 01:39:59,567
[woman]
Justice was done.
2136
01:39:59,601 --> 01:40:00,567
It was.
2137
01:40:00,601 --> 01:40:02,234
[woman]
Amen.
Amen.
2138
01:40:02,267 --> 01:40:03,567
Oh Delbert, we're happy.
2139
01:40:03,601 --> 01:40:06,034
- We're happy for you!
- Thank you all.
2140
01:40:06,068 --> 01:40:08,200
- We're happy for you.
- We're all happy for you!
2141
01:40:08,234 --> 01:40:09,434
[voices fade out]
2142
01:40:11,067 --> 01:40:12,501
[birds chirping]
2143
01:40:14,767 --> 01:40:17,933
♪♪
2144
01:40:30,635 --> 01:40:33,033
[Interviewer]
Do you think there was any
good in all of this?
2145
01:40:33,067 --> 01:40:34,867
Oh, yeah.
2146
01:40:34,900 --> 01:40:37,000
Yep, I do.
2147
01:40:38,801 --> 01:40:43,067
Well, uh, the way everybody
helped Delbert,
2148
01:40:45,601 --> 01:40:47,801
in the Munnsville
area and Stockbridge
2149
01:40:47,834 --> 01:40:49,100
and different places.
2150
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:51,967
Yeah.
2151
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:53,400
[car honking]
2152
01:40:54,833 --> 01:40:56,067
♪♪
2153
01:41:02,834 --> 01:41:05,267
I've been out visiting and
talking to my friends.
2154
01:41:06,567 --> 01:41:07,734
You got a lot of 'em now.
2155
01:41:07,767 --> 01:41:10,734
By gosh, Stockbridge diner
was full this morning.
2156
01:41:10,767 --> 01:41:12,401
I was gonna buy some
of my friends coffee,
2157
01:41:12,435 --> 01:41:14,634
and I didn't, they wouldn't
even let me buy it.
2158
01:41:14,667 --> 01:41:16,734
Wouldn't let me
spend a nickel.
2159
01:41:16,767 --> 01:41:18,801
The lady and the man that
works at the diner up there,
2160
01:41:18,834 --> 01:41:20,001
took the money out
of their own pocket,
2161
01:41:20,034 --> 01:41:21,934
and paid for all of it.
2162
01:41:21,968 --> 01:41:24,867
Why don't you come
up this summer, Joe?
2163
01:41:24,900 --> 01:41:25,901
Sure.
2164
01:41:25,934 --> 01:41:27,300
When the nice green
leaves come out.
2165
01:41:27,334 --> 01:41:29,967
You and Bruce and
Doug and Mike.
2166
01:41:31,034 --> 01:41:33,501
When the old leaves get out
and the green grass.
2167
01:41:33,534 --> 01:41:35,067
Come up and take
some pictures.
2168
01:41:41,168 --> 01:41:43,634
What do you think
of all this now, Delbert?
2169
01:41:43,667 --> 01:41:46,167
Well, I'm glad
it's over with.
2170
01:41:48,034 --> 01:41:49,868
I thank, thank
all my friends
2171
01:41:49,901 --> 01:41:52,567
for all the support
they gave me.
2172
01:41:52,601 --> 01:41:53,701
Did you ever know
you had so many friends?
2173
01:41:53,734 --> 01:41:55,033
Not so many.
2174
01:42:03,734 --> 01:42:05,434
[car honking]
2175
01:42:06,435 --> 01:42:07,901
Do you think your
life is different now?
2176
01:42:07,934 --> 01:42:11,033
Yep, gonna start
all over new again.
2177
01:42:11,067 --> 01:42:13,701
[tractor engine starts]
2178
01:42:13,734 --> 01:42:15,467
You boys will, too, now.
2179
01:42:15,501 --> 01:42:16,700
♪♪
160441
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