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Crew member 1: One second, Mike.
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Crew member 2:
Another ten seconds,
we'll do some shooting.
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Crew member: Okay.
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‐ We going?
‐ Crew member: We have speed.
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00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:01,300
Why is the Fox Network
increasingly popular?
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People in America
are desperate for straight talk.
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And they're not getting it
from the networks?
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The networks are too stodgy,
too traditional.
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You gotta cut through it now.
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When I tell people I'm going
to do a profile of O'Reilly.
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"Oh! Wonderful. Wonderful.
Don't let him off the hook.
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Go get him. Bring him down.
You're the guy who can do it."
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What is it about me
that offends them?
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‐ Take a look at you.
‐ The O'Reilly Factor is on.
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I'm asking you
to shut up about sec...
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Come on, you coward!
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‐ Say the truth!
‐ What do you mean coward?
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See, I'm more angry about it
than you are!
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Shut up! Shut up!
Yeah, you had your 35 minutes.
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Shut up!
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That's not an interview.
That's a lecture.
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‐ You say you're a journalist.
‐ Correct.
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I say
that you're an op‐ed columnist.
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‐ Which is different.
‐ Bill: No, it's not.
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You're a dinosaur.
You have to engage now.
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You have to challenge.
You have to be so provocative.
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This is going to embarrass you,
Wallace.
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So are you ready
to be embarrassed?
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Playboy magazine wrote
that Bill O'Reilly
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is the most feared interviewer
since Mike Wallace.
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You're the driving force
behind my career.
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I always tell everybody,
you got a problem with me?
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He's responsible.
So if you don't like me...
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you go to Wallace.
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TV host: The mention
of my first guest's name
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has been known to strike fear
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into the hearts
of brave men and women.
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I'm Mike Wallace.
I'm Mike Wallace.
I'm Mike Wallace.
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‐ Please welcome Mike Wallace.
‐
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TV host: Your image.
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Interviewer, journalist,
killer. All right?
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This man
is going to get somebody
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and we're going to watch it
right here on television.
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Do you enjoy "gotcha"?
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00:03:08,766 --> 00:03:10,600
Stephen Colbert:
You are the master of nailing.
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You might have even invented
nailing somebody on camera
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with that last question.
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‐ How many people did you kill?
‐ Five.
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00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:19,400
But I don't think
I can kill an innocent person.
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00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,233
What do you mean
by an innocent person?
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Well, you're an innocent person.
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It may just have been
that you were difficult, Bette.
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‐ No, no, no, no.
‐ Not difficult. Impossible.
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00:03:29,533 --> 00:03:31,366
You're probably unpleasant
to him...
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You're a son of a bitch.
Do you know that?
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‐ Oh, come on.
‐ You're a son of a bitch.
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Crew member: Sync.
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Interviewer:
You go in to cover a story.
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It's your camera.
It's your microphone.
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How would you like that done
to you?
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How long do you think
we'll talk?
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00:03:48,833 --> 00:03:50,400
Interviewer:
How would you like somebody
to point a camera at you,
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to confront you
with embarrassing material
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perhaps about a life
you once led
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‐ or something you once did?
‐ Well, fine.
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00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,666
But I don't have to answer.
I think it's a lousy question.
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‐ Crew member: All set.
‐ You rolling on both?
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Interviewer: I mean,
does it ever occur to you
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00:04:00,833 --> 00:04:03,500
that what you're doing
is somehow...
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00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:04,900
It's a little bit brutalizing?
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00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:11,300
How would you like it
done to you? I wouldn't like it.
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00:04:19,233 --> 00:04:23,633
When was the last time
we had lunch together? Lunch?
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Here we are,
having ostensibly...
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This is the first time
I think, Mike.
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‐ both:
‐ I know.
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‐ It's been a long time.
‐ It has been a long time.
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Shall we, gentlemen,
are we rolling?
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‐ Crew member: We got speed.
‐ Okay.
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‐ This is a Wallace question.
‐ Mm‐hmm.
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00:04:38,466 --> 00:04:44,566
Why are you sometimes
such a prick? Uh...
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00:04:44,566 --> 00:04:49,500
Why am I sometimes such a prick?
Example?
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‐ Example?
‐ Example.
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Your life, Mike, is an example.
Come on.
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I want to go back
to the beginning.
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Good evening, I'm Mike Wallace.
A nation's press
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is a good yardstick
of a nation's health.
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00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,100
Take a look at the history
of any nation
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which has lost its freedoms
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00:05:08,866 --> 00:05:11,466
and you'll find that the men
who grabbed the power,
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also have to crush
the free press.
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Tonight, we'll discuss
some of the problems
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of our own fourth estate.
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Man: The first kinescope
that I can remember saying,
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‐ "Now, that's Mike Wallace,"
is Night Beat.
‐ Mike: Of course.
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Man: How did Night Beat start
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and how did you become
Mike Wallace?
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Mike: Growing up
in Brookline, Massachusetts.
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My mother was humorless. Strict.
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My father was honest.
Very straight forward.
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I developed a case of acne
as an adolescent,
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which I think marked
my personality.
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00:05:47,049 --> 00:05:51,216
Back in those days,
I yearned for...
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not sunny days, gray days
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so that it wouldn't show
the pockmarks.
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When the sun was there,
I suddenly was exposed
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in all of my painful ugliness.
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Interviewer: It seems like
you've always felt
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you had something to prove.
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00:06:07,549 --> 00:06:09,549
As a young man,
you said you had acne,
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you felt like you've got a face
for radio.
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‐ Mike: That's right.
‐ Interviewer:
That was something
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you had to prove
that you were better than.
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But you had already started
developing this tougher persona.
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Mike: I discovered my voice
and that's what saved me.
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I thought to myself,
I'd be a radio announcer.
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There were no pictures.
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I could hide
behind the microphone.
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But I obviously wanted
to perform.
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Radio Announcer: Right now,
here's Mike Wallace.
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Mike: Listen Thursday
to Sky King.
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All of the grocers of America
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who sells Peter Pan
Peanut Butter
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00:06:41,716 --> 00:06:43,416
help make this program
possible.
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00:06:43,416 --> 00:06:45,249
This is Mike Wallace
up in Sheraton...
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00:06:45,249 --> 00:06:47,383
Ride with Rip Reed as he races
to another thrilling adventure.
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00:06:47,383 --> 00:06:50,449
The Green Hornet strikes again.
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‐ You were the Green Hornet.
‐ You see, back in those days,
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you did the news,
you announced dramatic shows
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00:06:58,349 --> 00:07:00,883
like Green Hornet
and Lone Ranger.
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00:07:00,883 --> 00:07:03,616
And you swept up the studio
before you went home.
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You did a lot of things
in other words.
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All right, boys! Let's head out.
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Announcer: Ride the rails
with Ned Jordan, Secret Agent!
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Morley Safer: I think that
at some point in Mike's life,
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he invented a guy
called Mike Wallace,
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who was gonna be
tough as nails,
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no nonsense,
no‐holds‐barred,
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never took orders from anybody.
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Mike: All right! Phew.
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Barbra: Oh,
you shooting my feet?
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‐ Do I have to put shoes on?
‐ No, leave the shoes off Paul,
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and start the interview please.
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‐ They say I'm difficult?
‐
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What are you frightened of?
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You know, I was brought up
being scared of everything.
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You don't go in the water,
you'll drown.
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You don't stand on your toes
as a ballet dancer,
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you break your toes.
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That's who I am today.
In other words,
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I'm frightened to death
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of directing and producing
a movie.
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And yet I was always testing
the fear.
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‐ Meaning I don't let the fear
stop me.
‐ Yup.
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But it doesn't mean
I'm not frightened
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every inch of the way.
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I turned on the TV the other day
and it went boop,
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and there is a man
who had written a book
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and he's saying
"Fear is the energy
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behind doing your best work."
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Interviewer: You remember
the first time you saw
a television camera?
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Mike: Yes,
I was scared to death.
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When I first looked up
at the lights and the heat,
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I figured "I'm never going
to be able to make it.
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Who's going to wanna look
at this man?"
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Interviewer:
How did you get over it?
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Mike: Back in the early days,
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television
was a kind of experiment.
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As a result of which,
I was willing to take any job
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in television to begin with.
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‐ Announcer: Mike Wallace!
‐ Mike Wallace!
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You must let
your imagination soar.
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If you didn't do it,
there's only one way
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00:09:00,616 --> 00:09:02,416
I can help ya.
I've got to know the truth!
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00:09:02,416 --> 00:09:05,416
Parliament, with its famous
high‐fi recessed filter
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00:09:05,416 --> 00:09:07,783
is continually tested
for uniformity by the United...
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Does that embarrass you,
the cigarette commercials,
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‐ for example?
‐ You mean the fact that I...
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the fact that I did commercials?
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‐ The acting.
‐ The acting? Actor, pitch man.
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You yourself have
a show business background.
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Did you ever take
acting lessons?
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Show business?
Oh, you know, this baloney
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about a show business
background.
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What is a show business
background?
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Well, you were a celebrity
yourself.
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And you came
into the news business later...
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‐ You have no idea...
‐ Not from the journalistic
side of things,
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from the showbiz side of things.
Hi, I'm Mike Wallace
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with a sensational
shortening discovery
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for better baking and frying.
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Oh man, that's some apple pie!
Golden Fluffo!
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I'm asking you about the acting.
I know you are.
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Your welfare doesn't come
for a...
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Mike: I was a little sensitive
195
00:09:52,016 --> 00:09:53,683
about being a jack
of all trades.
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But I was searching
for something different.
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Little did I know
that everything
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00:10:02,049 --> 00:10:06,716
was about to change
with my life.
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00:10:06,716 --> 00:10:08,416
Crew member: Mike Wallace,
number four.
200
00:10:08,416 --> 00:10:11,383
Two‐two dash one. Take one.
201
00:10:11,383 --> 00:10:15,316
Good evening, I'm Mike Wallace,
the show is Night Beat.
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00:10:15,316 --> 00:10:17,516
What you're about to witness
is strictly personal.
203
00:10:17,516 --> 00:10:19,816
A direct, undiluted,
unrehearsed,
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00:10:19,816 --> 00:10:24,783
uncensored interview.
My role is that of a reporter.
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00:10:24,783 --> 00:10:28,983
Up to then,
interviews had been vapid.
206
00:10:28,983 --> 00:10:32,083
Who was the most interesting
person you've ever painted?
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00:10:32,083 --> 00:10:34,916
Senator, I understand
that you had a lot
of tea parties
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00:10:34,916 --> 00:10:37,349
during your campaign.
Can you still drink tea?
209
00:10:37,349 --> 00:10:39,149
Rod, I've watched your show
many times
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00:10:39,149 --> 00:10:41,216
and I want to tell you
it's wonderful.
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00:10:41,216 --> 00:10:43,449
Mike: And then I wrote
and then I sang and so forth.
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00:10:43,449 --> 00:10:46,916
And no one ever confronted
anybody with anything
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00:10:46,916 --> 00:10:48,883
beyond that kind of talk.
214
00:10:48,883 --> 00:10:51,716
And we said, "Let's do some
research about these people
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00:10:51,716 --> 00:10:57,416
and ask questions that have
never been asked before."
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00:10:57,416 --> 00:10:59,283
Mike: I think that you'll agree
that you have a rather
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00:10:59,283 --> 00:11:01,183
remarkable record
for being called names.
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00:11:01,183 --> 00:11:02,716
‐ That's right.
‐ Mike:
219
00:11:02,716 --> 00:11:05,283
President Roosevelt
once called you a chronic liar.
220
00:11:05,283 --> 00:11:08,049
President Truman called you
an SOB at one time
221
00:11:08,049 --> 00:11:10,716
and a vicious liar
at another time.
222
00:11:10,716 --> 00:11:12,549
The late Tennessee Senator,
Cal McKellar
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00:11:12,549 --> 00:11:15,116
called you an "ignorant liar,
a pusillanimous liar,
224
00:11:15,116 --> 00:11:17,083
a peewee liar, a liar
in the daytime
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00:11:17,083 --> 00:11:18,916
and a liar in the nighttime."
End quote.
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00:11:18,916 --> 00:11:23,183
What is there about Drew Pearson
that inspires such bitterness?
227
00:11:23,183 --> 00:11:25,416
Well, Mike...
228
00:11:25,416 --> 00:11:27,683
...I can't give
an objective answer on that.
229
00:11:27,683 --> 00:11:30,616
Could it be that you're a liar?
230
00:11:30,616 --> 00:11:32,783
People didn't ask
tough questions back then.
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00:11:32,783 --> 00:11:34,716
I mean, you invented that genre.
232
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You're not answering
the specific question
233
00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:38,283
that I put, now you know
as well as I...
234
00:11:38,283 --> 00:11:41,049
Interviewer: Night Beat
was news. It was journalism
235
00:11:41,049 --> 00:11:42,983
but it was also television.
236
00:11:42,983 --> 00:11:44,716
‐ Mike: Yeah.
‐ Interviewer:
It was also dramatic.
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00:11:44,716 --> 00:11:47,083
Tight close ups,
every little tick
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00:11:47,083 --> 00:11:49,816
and almost like a police
investigation.
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‐ Well, you're talking
about economic equality.
‐ No I'm talking...
240
00:11:52,183 --> 00:11:54,549
What I'm talking
about is social equality.
241
00:11:54,549 --> 00:11:58,616
Now I'm getting to that!
242
00:11:58,616 --> 00:12:00,216
Larry:
We're in the same profession.
243
00:12:00,216 --> 00:12:01,583
Mike: Bet your sweet ass.
244
00:12:01,583 --> 00:12:03,349
Crew member: Rolling.
Okay, roll one.
245
00:12:03,349 --> 00:12:06,316
Take the camera left.
Take 90. Slate.
246
00:12:06,316 --> 00:12:08,149
‐ Nervous?
‐ No.
247
00:12:08,149 --> 00:12:11,449
Not at all?
People say you're a patsy.
248
00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:13,683
‐ Oh that's not...
‐ That's the rap.
249
00:12:13,683 --> 00:12:15,549
‐ Yeah, I know.
‐ I don't think you're a patsy.
250
00:12:15,549 --> 00:12:18,749
You get information your way.
I get information my way.
251
00:12:18,749 --> 00:12:21,016
But the rap on King
is that he's a patsy.
252
00:12:21,016 --> 00:12:22,916
He will never ask a hard
question.
253
00:12:22,916 --> 00:12:25,049
I'm Larry. I'm Larry
of the corner.
254
00:12:25,049 --> 00:12:26,416
And when we were on the corner
255
00:12:26,416 --> 00:12:27,949
I was the kind of kid
who used to say,
256
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:29,483
"Why do you want to drive
the bus?"
257
00:12:29,483 --> 00:12:31,616
But, wait a second.
Why do you want to drive a bus?
258
00:12:31,616 --> 00:12:33,716
Why do you put your hand
in the coin box
259
00:12:33,716 --> 00:12:36,083
and take out one out of every
three quarters...
260
00:12:36,083 --> 00:12:37,716
‐ Now, you would
ask it that way...
‐ ...Mr. Bus Driver?
261
00:12:37,716 --> 00:12:40,383
...and I would say,
"Aren't there temptations?"
262
00:12:40,383 --> 00:12:42,649
And he would say,
"Temptations? No."
263
00:12:42,649 --> 00:12:44,449
‐ What I would not do
because it's not my style...
‐ Yeah.
264
00:12:44,583 --> 00:12:46,983
‐ ...is say,
"You've taken quarters!"
‐
265
00:12:46,983 --> 00:12:48,949
Now, okay,
there's no perfect interview.
266
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:51,583
Don't confuse anger
and hostility
267
00:12:51,583 --> 00:12:55,449
with an insistence
on getting to the bottom line.
268
00:12:55,449 --> 00:12:57,716
To the fact.
269
00:12:57,716 --> 00:13:01,383
There will be some, I'm sure,
who will feel it is a mistake
270
00:13:01,383 --> 00:13:03,416
to give network exposure
to Eldon Edwards,
271
00:13:03,416 --> 00:13:06,216
the Imperial Wizard
of the Ku Klux Klan.
272
00:13:06,216 --> 00:13:08,949
To you who feel that way,
I respect your views,
273
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:10,716
although I do not share them.
274
00:13:10,716 --> 00:13:14,049
This will be an unrehearsed
interview with Eldon Edwards.
275
00:13:14,049 --> 00:13:15,949
I don't know what he will say.
276
00:13:15,949 --> 00:13:18,849
Mr. Edwards, you say
that the Klan reject violence?
277
00:13:18,849 --> 00:13:21,383
It does. Your own Grand Dragon
278
00:13:21,383 --> 00:13:24,249
is quoted having said not once,
but many times,
279
00:13:24,249 --> 00:13:27,149
"Negroes who try to force
their way into our white schools
280
00:13:27,149 --> 00:13:28,683
are not looking
for an education.
281
00:13:28,683 --> 00:13:31,449
They're looking for a funeral."
282
00:13:31,449 --> 00:13:33,149
Well, I didn't hear him
say that.
283
00:13:33,149 --> 00:13:35,916
Then how do you account
for a report like this.
284
00:13:35,916 --> 00:13:37,349
"Armed, robed and masked men
285
00:13:37,349 --> 00:13:39,616
pulled cripple from home
near Negro area.
286
00:13:39,616 --> 00:13:42,549
Character assassination,
boycotts, open warnings,
287
00:13:42,549 --> 00:13:45,016
anonymous telephone calls,
threatening letters."
288
00:13:45,016 --> 00:13:49,549
Do you employ those techniques
to get your beliefs across?
289
00:13:49,549 --> 00:13:54,383
Well, I don't care
to even answer.
290
00:13:54,383 --> 00:13:58,283
I've never seen an interview
that you did not dominate.
291
00:13:58,283 --> 00:14:01,249
Why do so many Hollywood stars
fear to stand up
292
00:14:01,249 --> 00:14:02,716
and speak their mind?
293
00:14:02,716 --> 00:14:04,716
Well, Mike, I've heard
quite a bit about you.
294
00:14:04,716 --> 00:14:06,616
You're supposed to be
a pretty rough boy.
295
00:14:06,616 --> 00:14:09,916
When I am sitting here now,
being myself,
296
00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:12,949
that's the most difficult thing
in the world for any actor
297
00:14:12,949 --> 00:14:14,549
and certainly for me.
298
00:14:14,549 --> 00:14:17,383
because then you do feel naked,
you don't have a script.
299
00:14:17,383 --> 00:14:20,183
Mrs. Roosevelt,
I think that you will agree
300
00:14:20,183 --> 00:14:23,849
that a good many people
hated your husband.
301
00:14:23,849 --> 00:14:27,883
They even hated you.
Oh, yes, a great many do still.
302
00:14:27,883 --> 00:14:29,116
Why?
303
00:14:29,116 --> 00:14:30,716
Is it hard to ask
those questions?
304
00:14:30,716 --> 00:14:32,349
‐ Is it difficult?
‐ No, not at all.
305
00:14:32,349 --> 00:14:34,116
‐ How do you do it?
‐ Mike:
306
00:14:34,116 --> 00:14:37,183
I'm nosy and in...
and insistent
307
00:14:37,183 --> 00:14:40,383
‐ and not to be pushed aside.
‐ And confident.
308
00:14:40,383 --> 00:14:43,083
Confident that
when I ask a question,
309
00:14:43,083 --> 00:14:45,416
there's a reason
for its being asked.
310
00:14:45,416 --> 00:14:47,683
It's not a question
picked out of the air.
311
00:14:47,683 --> 00:14:49,483
You're seeing behind me...
312
00:14:49,483 --> 00:14:51,649
Mike: You ask tough questions
that get behind the facade
313
00:14:51,649 --> 00:14:54,916
to try to understand
what's really going on
314
00:14:54,916 --> 00:14:57,049
behind the scenes.
315
00:14:57,049 --> 00:14:59,583
Salvador Dali
is a self‐confessed genius
316
00:14:59,583 --> 00:15:02,049
with an ingenious flair
for publicity,
317
00:15:02,049 --> 00:15:05,016
who sees the world
through surrealist eyes.
318
00:15:05,016 --> 00:15:11,849
You said, "I adore three things.
Weakness, old age, and luxury."
319
00:15:11,849 --> 00:15:14,349
Why do you adore old age?
320
00:15:14,349 --> 00:15:20,383
Because I believe young people
is completely stupid, you know.
321
00:15:20,383 --> 00:15:22,549
‐ Young people are stupid.
‐ Exactly.
322
00:15:23,483 --> 00:15:26,583
Crew member:
Yeah, we're rolling.
323
00:15:26,583 --> 00:15:29,049
I'm sitting
in Mike Wallace's office.
324
00:15:29,049 --> 00:15:30,883
Normally, he interviews people
325
00:15:30,883 --> 00:15:34,116
and I'm turning
the tables on him.
326
00:15:34,116 --> 00:15:35,516
The fact is,
I'm a little nervous.
327
00:15:35,516 --> 00:15:37,716
‐ Why?
‐ I don't know but I am.
328
00:15:37,716 --> 00:15:42,416
Well then let me ask you,
what makes a good interview?
329
00:15:42,416 --> 00:15:45,583
‐ I understand that...
‐ Yeah?
330
00:15:45,583 --> 00:15:49,316
...when you prepare
for a broadcast... Mm‐hmm.
331
00:15:49,316 --> 00:15:50,949
...you don't really prepare.
You don't...
332
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:53,149
that is you don't have a script,
you don't have questions.
333
00:15:53,149 --> 00:15:56,083
You don't have...
What do you do, wing it?
334
00:15:56,083 --> 00:15:57,416
Yeah, basically I do.
335
00:15:57,416 --> 00:16:00,483
‐ Why?
‐ Because I find that...
336
00:16:00,483 --> 00:16:04,449
I think that I'm a surrogate
viewer and I feel so...
337
00:16:04,449 --> 00:16:06,116
I feel really connected to...
338
00:16:06,116 --> 00:16:08,083
to the women
who are out there watching me.
339
00:16:08,083 --> 00:16:09,383
I know. But having said that,
340
00:16:09,383 --> 00:16:10,449
still, if you're going
to be proxy
341
00:16:10,449 --> 00:16:12,183
you've got to ask the questions
342
00:16:12,183 --> 00:16:13,749
‐ that they want to ask.
‐ That they want the answers to.
343
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:16,416
‐ But... All right.
‐ So, so, so that's what I do.
344
00:16:16,416 --> 00:16:19,449
I ask the questions
that I want the answers to.
345
00:16:19,449 --> 00:16:21,116
Mike:
Now that you're a film star,
346
00:16:21,116 --> 00:16:22,949
is it all
that it's cracked up to be?
347
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:27,989
No. When you have been
in the business
348
00:16:27,989 --> 00:16:30,456
for a certain length of time,
you first of all come to realize
349
00:16:30,456 --> 00:16:32,289
that nobody gets there
in the first place
350
00:16:32,289 --> 00:16:34,622
without a little hard work,
disappointment,
351
00:16:34,622 --> 00:16:38,189
‐ some heartbreaks.
‐ Compromises? Yes.
352
00:16:38,189 --> 00:16:41,789
Compromises
with your own honesty? Yes.
353
00:16:41,789 --> 00:16:44,689
Mike: It is a form of learning
about others
354
00:16:44,689 --> 00:16:46,889
and ourselves through others.
355
00:16:46,889 --> 00:16:48,889
It's almost like a love affair
in a strange way.
356
00:16:48,889 --> 00:16:50,689
Beverly Sills:
Yeah, boy, you do that a lot.
357
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:52,222
Do what a lot?
358
00:16:52,222 --> 00:16:56,622
Oh, those love affairs on camera
and all that.
359
00:16:56,622 --> 00:16:58,556
‐ One final question.
‐ Sure,
360
00:16:58,556 --> 00:17:01,089
‐ I'm beginning to like this.
‐ Mike:
361
00:17:01,089 --> 00:17:03,889
Mike: Night Beat defined me
for myself.
362
00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:06,356
I suddenly had found my bliss.
363
00:17:06,356 --> 00:17:07,822
Interviewer: You had become
Mike Wallace.
364
00:17:07,822 --> 00:17:10,156
Mike: Yeah, exactly.
365
00:17:10,156 --> 00:17:13,689
And suddenly
we were discovered
366
00:17:13,689 --> 00:17:16,256
and we were overnight, a hit.
367
00:17:16,256 --> 00:17:19,856
This you immediately
knew was the way
368
00:17:19,856 --> 00:17:24,056
‐ for Mike Wallace to go.
‐ Absolutely. Yeah.
369
00:17:24,056 --> 00:17:32,056
And that's when I became
a prick... on the air.
370
00:17:32,056 --> 00:17:35,556
Mike: Night Beat
changed the face of television.
371
00:17:35,556 --> 00:17:38,422
It was a sensation.
And then ABC wanted it.
372
00:17:38,422 --> 00:17:40,322
So they made it
The Mike Wallace Interview
373
00:17:40,322 --> 00:17:42,489
‐ and put it on the network.
‐ My name is Mike Wallace.
374
00:17:42,489 --> 00:17:45,822
The cigarette is Parliament.
375
00:17:45,822 --> 00:17:47,789
Announcer:
The Mike Wallace Interview.
376
00:17:47,789 --> 00:17:49,622
A new type of interview show
377
00:17:49,622 --> 00:17:51,989
springing up
all over the country.
378
00:17:51,989 --> 00:17:54,056
It's the kind of show
that really digs
379
00:17:54,056 --> 00:17:55,522
into the heart of things.
380
00:17:55,522 --> 00:17:58,256
Mike: And suddenly
that kind of interview
381
00:17:58,256 --> 00:18:00,689
became quite a big hit
across the country.
382
00:18:00,689 --> 00:18:02,522
I wouldn't go
on Mike Wallace's show
383
00:18:02,522 --> 00:18:07,122
if I had the time.
That guy can cut you to ribbons.
384
00:18:07,122 --> 00:18:10,589
In television drama,
few names have the prestige
385
00:18:10,589 --> 00:18:12,922
of that of our guest,
Rod Serling.
386
00:18:12,922 --> 00:18:15,322
We'll learn what he means
by the price tag
387
00:18:15,322 --> 00:18:17,156
that hangs on success.
388
00:18:17,156 --> 00:18:19,589
The Twilight Zone
is your own creation.
389
00:18:19,589 --> 00:18:21,156
You're doing it for money.
390
00:18:21,156 --> 00:18:23,256
How many hours a day
do you work right now?
391
00:18:23,256 --> 00:18:28,622
12 to 14 hours a day.
How many days a week? Seven.
392
00:18:28,622 --> 00:18:32,889
And because those become
so large, what becomes small?
393
00:18:32,889 --> 00:18:35,122
I think probably
the really valuable things,
394
00:18:35,122 --> 00:18:37,122
you suddenly find yourself
having to compromise
395
00:18:37,122 --> 00:18:39,589
along the line.
Giving so many hours to work
396
00:18:39,589 --> 00:18:42,922
and a disproportionate number
of fewer hours to family.
397
00:18:53,589 --> 00:18:56,622
Interviewer:
398
00:18:56,622 --> 00:18:59,256
How many times
have I been married?
399
00:18:59,256 --> 00:19:02,789
What in the world do you want
to ask a question like that for?
400
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:06,922
What... what relevance
does that have?
401
00:19:06,922 --> 00:19:09,522
That's the kind of a question
that you might hear
402
00:19:09,522 --> 00:19:15,456
on Hard Copy or A Current Affa
or Four Times.
403
00:19:15,456 --> 00:19:20,522
Women and Larry King.
What a saga.
404
00:19:20,522 --> 00:19:22,722
Why are you looking so serious?
405
00:19:22,722 --> 00:19:27,122
Because it's an area of my life
I, uh...
406
00:19:27,122 --> 00:19:29,289
haven't done well with.
I've done...
407
00:19:29,289 --> 00:19:30,622
You've been married
how many times?
408
00:19:30,622 --> 00:19:32,056
‐ Five.
‐ So your wife
409
00:19:32,056 --> 00:19:36,689
or your love is an intruder.
Is an aside.
410
00:19:36,689 --> 00:19:38,222
You know I used to say,
if I came home
411
00:19:38,222 --> 00:19:41,489
and had two messages;
"Your wife called urgent,
412
00:19:41,489 --> 00:19:43,589
CNN called urgent."
413
00:19:43,589 --> 00:19:46,222
‐ I'd call CNN.
‐ No contest? No contest.
414
00:19:47,189 --> 00:19:49,956
What the hell
is that smug smile about?
415
00:19:49,956 --> 00:19:52,822
What do you regret most
416
00:19:52,822 --> 00:19:57,622
about the decisions
of your life? Oh, that's hard.
417
00:19:57,622 --> 00:20:00,822
Probably, the first bad decision
I made was to get married
418
00:20:00,822 --> 00:20:05,989
at the age of 22.
Which is damn foolish.
419
00:20:05,989 --> 00:20:10,522
Mike: I married a college chum
who was Peter's mother
420
00:20:10,522 --> 00:20:13,356
and Chris Wallace's mother.
421
00:20:13,356 --> 00:20:15,556
Well, we went to school
together.
422
00:20:15,556 --> 00:20:17,289
And it became quite apparent
423
00:20:17,289 --> 00:20:19,622
we were married
when we were too young
424
00:20:19,622 --> 00:20:24,189
and that was not going to work.
What kind of a father were you?
425
00:20:24,189 --> 00:20:29,189
Hmm. Absent a lot of the time,
not very good. Not very good.
426
00:20:29,189 --> 00:20:36,389
One of the most colorful
and notorious gangsters
427
00:20:36,389 --> 00:20:38,822
in the United States
in the late 1940s
428
00:20:38,822 --> 00:20:41,056
was Mickey Cohen.
429
00:20:41,056 --> 00:20:44,389
Mickey, you've killed at least
one man or how many more?
430
00:20:44,389 --> 00:20:49,422
I have killed no men...
that, uh...
431
00:20:49,422 --> 00:20:52,289
in the first place,
didn't deserve killing.
432
00:20:52,289 --> 00:20:54,722
Larry: Did you have any fear
of Mickey Cohen?
433
00:20:54,722 --> 00:20:56,322
Mike: No.
434
00:20:56,322 --> 00:21:00,156
But he succeeded to offend
all manner of people.
435
00:21:00,156 --> 00:21:03,589
A police chief who happens
to be a sadistic degenerate.
436
00:21:03,589 --> 00:21:07,689
Mike: He gave such ammunition
with which to sue us for libel,
437
00:21:07,689 --> 00:21:10,289
and everybody did.
Everybody did.
438
00:21:10,289 --> 00:21:13,289
What about this statement
that you made in your own paper?
439
00:21:13,289 --> 00:21:15,189
You have no right
to sit in judgment of me.
440
00:21:15,189 --> 00:21:17,656
I'm not sitting in judgment,
I'm simply asking a question.
441
00:21:17,656 --> 00:21:20,056
Mike: We were doing things
that were for the time,
442
00:21:20,056 --> 00:21:23,056
revolutionary.
I mean asking serious questions.
443
00:21:23,056 --> 00:21:24,756
Asking abrasive questions.
444
00:21:24,756 --> 00:21:27,989
I'm ready any time you want
to repeat the stupid question.
445
00:21:27,989 --> 00:21:30,156
Mike: We got
into a flock of lawsuits
446
00:21:30,156 --> 00:21:33,756
and it just became too
controversial.
447
00:21:33,756 --> 00:21:35,189
This has been the last program.
448
00:21:35,189 --> 00:21:37,822
As tonight's guest,
Arthur Larsen has said,
449
00:21:37,822 --> 00:21:40,722
"Before we can tell the world
who we are
450
00:21:40,722 --> 00:21:43,089
and before we can act
for the future,
451
00:21:43,089 --> 00:21:47,822
we ourselves must know
who we are, what we stand for.
452
00:21:47,822 --> 00:21:52,322
And what we mean by freedom."
Mike Wallace, good night.
453
00:21:52,322 --> 00:21:57,789
Mike: And just like that,
454
00:21:57,789 --> 00:22:04,756
The Mike Wallace Interview
was off the air.
455
00:22:04,756 --> 00:22:07,356
Hello. I'm Mike Wallace
with real news.
456
00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:10,222
News about Revlon's new Lanolite
lipstick,
457
00:22:10,222 --> 00:22:13,456
the first non‐smear lipstick
that actually beauty treats
458
00:22:13,456 --> 00:22:15,056
your lips as you wear it.
459
00:22:15,056 --> 00:22:16,256
Interviewer: How did you feel
about moving on
460
00:22:16,256 --> 00:22:19,256
without that show?
Mike: I was lost.
461
00:22:19,256 --> 00:22:21,056
I used to say,
I have to do all these things
462
00:22:21,056 --> 00:22:23,556
because I have all these kids
to support and so forth
463
00:22:23,556 --> 00:22:27,322
and I knew that that was...
that was less than the truth.
464
00:22:27,322 --> 00:22:28,622
Gals...
465
00:22:28,622 --> 00:22:30,222
I was beginning
to pay a price
466
00:22:30,222 --> 00:22:33,889
for some of the television work
that I had done.
467
00:22:33,889 --> 00:22:35,989
I hated it after a while.
468
00:22:35,989 --> 00:22:37,856
You're right. Within us
there seems to be
469
00:22:37,856 --> 00:22:41,389
a frightening void
we are forever trying to fill
470
00:22:41,389 --> 00:22:46,856
but never quite do, of lostness.
What do you mean?
471
00:22:46,856 --> 00:22:48,722
You've never felt that feeling?
472
00:22:56,222 --> 00:22:57,122
Interviewer:
473
00:23:20,489 --> 00:23:22,522
This is Mike Wallace
currently going around the world
474
00:23:22,522 --> 00:23:26,489
in 40 days and reporting
to WBZ's Program PM...
475
00:23:26,489 --> 00:23:28,656
I had been on a trip
around the world
476
00:23:28,656 --> 00:23:30,622
for Westinghouse Broadcasting
that summer.
477
00:23:30,622 --> 00:23:32,156
...with
my portable tape recorder,
478
00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:34,256
I'll bring you an actual
word picture
479
00:23:34,256 --> 00:23:37,822
of New Delhi, Cairo, Nairobi,
other news making cities...
480
00:23:37,822 --> 00:23:40,822
My son Peter
had taken the summer off
from Yale
481
00:23:40,822 --> 00:23:44,122
and had gone to Greece.
482
00:23:44,122 --> 00:23:47,356
And his mother told me
that they hadn't heard from him
483
00:23:47,356 --> 00:23:50,222
you know, in a couple
to three weeks.
484
00:23:50,222 --> 00:23:53,456
We didn't hear from him
and didn't hear from him.
485
00:23:53,456 --> 00:23:57,022
So finally I said,
"Something's got to be wrong.
486
00:23:57,022 --> 00:23:59,289
I'm going to go over
and see what's going on."
487
00:24:05,256 --> 00:24:08,289
We didn't know if he'd gone off
with a crowd someplace
488
00:24:08,289 --> 00:24:10,989
or met a girl or something
of that sort.
489
00:24:10,989 --> 00:24:13,422
And I went to Xylokastro
to this youth hostel
490
00:24:13,422 --> 00:24:17,289
and there was...
I saw his bag with his clothes.
491
00:24:17,289 --> 00:24:19,189
And then somebody
close by said,
492
00:24:19,189 --> 00:24:21,922
they thought that he had
gone up this mountain
493
00:24:21,922 --> 00:24:25,589
about three or four miles away.
494
00:24:25,589 --> 00:24:29,556
I got on a donkey
and we went up the mountain.
495
00:24:29,556 --> 00:24:32,689
And finally came to a ledge,
496
00:24:32,689 --> 00:24:35,989
very high looking out
over the Gulf of Corinth.
497
00:24:35,989 --> 00:24:43,222
And I looked down...
I uh...
498
00:24:43,222 --> 00:24:44,256
I saw my son.
499
00:25:01,522 --> 00:25:04,656
Nothing, nothing,
nothing like that
500
00:25:04,656 --> 00:25:09,889
had ever happened to me before.
It was just shattering.
501
00:25:30,856 --> 00:25:32,989
Morley: I cannot think
of anything worse
502
00:25:32,989 --> 00:25:35,856
than losing a child.
I mean, we are programmed
503
00:25:35,856 --> 00:25:38,289
so that they will outlive us.
504
00:25:38,289 --> 00:25:41,456
Is that something that still
haunts you?
505
00:25:41,456 --> 00:25:46,322
Mike: I was married
all that time to my job,
506
00:25:46,322 --> 00:25:51,956
had kids.
I was self‐absorbed.
507
00:25:51,956 --> 00:25:54,189
I'm ashamed to say.
508
00:25:54,189 --> 00:25:57,856
My job was more important
than my family,
509
00:25:57,856 --> 00:26:03,656
and I became a casualty of that.
Are you never lonely? Honest.
510
00:26:03,656 --> 00:26:06,222
I mean there are the two of you
and that's it.
511
00:26:06,222 --> 00:26:11,722
That's nice. Never.
You had a son...
512
00:26:11,722 --> 00:26:14,789
and he died at the age
of 40‐some odd.
513
00:26:22,722 --> 00:26:29,256
Still not over that?
514
00:26:29,256 --> 00:26:30,989
I'm sorry,
I didn't mean to do that.
515
00:26:38,722 --> 00:26:43,756
Okay.
516
00:26:43,756 --> 00:26:45,789
Leona: I'm tough...
517
00:26:45,789 --> 00:26:47,822
‐ What do you mean?
‐ I am tough.
518
00:26:47,822 --> 00:26:49,122
‐ Oh yeah.
‐ It's not easy.
519
00:26:49,122 --> 00:26:51,122
I can see you're tough
as the Dickens.
520
00:26:51,122 --> 00:26:58,089
It seems your only
vulnerability. Don't be silly.
521
00:26:58,089 --> 00:26:59,656
‐ Mike: There are...
‐ People are vulnerable,
522
00:26:59,656 --> 00:27:04,889
of course, you're vulnerable.
523
00:27:04,889 --> 00:27:10,089
Barbara Walters: Your son
died in 1962.
524
00:27:10,089 --> 00:27:15,722
Do you ever get over that?
525
00:27:15,722 --> 00:27:19,456
Mike: I mean there's always
that... The memory of this...
526
00:27:19,456 --> 00:27:25,156
I mean, Peter was a... Just a...
It changed your life, didn't it?
527
00:27:26,256 --> 00:27:29,689
Interviewer: Some people
when they go through a loss
like that
528
00:27:29,689 --> 00:27:31,856
it hardens their heart.
529
00:27:31,856 --> 00:27:35,822
It sounds like it focused
your mind. Focused my mind.
530
00:27:35,822 --> 00:27:41,756
Interviewer: How did it affect
your becoming who you are?
531
00:27:41,756 --> 00:27:44,489
Mike: I'd been unwilling
to give up
532
00:27:44,489 --> 00:27:47,689
doing certain things
that I was doing in television.
533
00:27:47,689 --> 00:27:49,356
Circus folks
just can't get enough
534
00:27:49,356 --> 00:27:50,956
of Peter Pan Peanut Butter!
535
00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:54,422
And after Peter died
I said to myself,
536
00:27:54,422 --> 00:27:59,656
"What is it that you want to do
with your life?"
537
00:27:59,656 --> 00:28:03,089
I don't want to read
everybody else's words anymore.
538
00:28:03,089 --> 00:28:07,056
I don't want to do
commercials anymore.
539
00:28:07,056 --> 00:28:13,122
I would like to be
a serious reporter.
540
00:28:15,222 --> 00:28:19,622
Announcer: From CBS News,
this special report.
541
00:28:19,622 --> 00:28:22,989
Interviewer: How did 60 Minutes
start? How did you end up there?
542
00:28:22,989 --> 00:28:29,556
What was the state of CBS News?
543
00:28:30,889 --> 00:28:33,689
Man: You got 30 seconds,
30 seconds.
544
00:28:33,689 --> 00:28:35,489
Good evening. Tonight,
See It Now
545
00:28:35,489 --> 00:28:36,956
devotes its entire half hour
546
00:28:36,956 --> 00:28:39,322
to a report
on Senator Joseph R. McCarthy.
547
00:28:39,322 --> 00:28:40,789
The other big missile site
548
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:43,689
is in Matanzas province
close to Havana.
549
00:28:43,689 --> 00:28:48,322
Mike: When I first got there,
everybody wanted to go work
at CBS.
550
00:28:48,322 --> 00:28:50,189
Crew member: Clear that shot!
Get Sakhalov out!
551
00:28:50,189 --> 00:28:52,256
‐ Get 'em out!
‐ Mike: Because it was Cronkite,
552
00:28:52,256 --> 00:28:54,056
Sevareid, Murrow.
553
00:28:54,056 --> 00:28:56,156
Interviewer: That was
the essence of news back then
in many ways.
554
00:28:56,156 --> 00:28:58,222
Mike: That was the voice
of authority.
555
00:28:58,222 --> 00:29:00,189
That was the voice
of the establishment
556
00:29:00,189 --> 00:29:02,489
‐ giving us the news.
‐ And that's the way it is.
557
00:29:02,489 --> 00:29:04,122
Monday, September the second.
558
00:29:04,122 --> 00:29:06,522
Announcer: The world news;
concisely summarized
559
00:29:06,522 --> 00:29:07,989
and clearly explained.
560
00:29:07,989 --> 00:29:10,622
This is Walter Cronkite.
Good night.
561
00:29:10,622 --> 00:29:13,122
Interviewer: I remember,
when the word swept
through the newsroom.
562
00:29:13,122 --> 00:29:16,722
Mike Wallace
is gonna be a CBS correspondent.
563
00:29:16,722 --> 00:29:20,789
And people thought, oh, my God,
the button‐down world of CBS.
564
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:22,456
Wait till this cat
gets in there!
565
00:29:22,456 --> 00:29:24,689
He'll really open it up.
What is the treatment
566
00:29:24,689 --> 00:29:27,856
that you get
when you're frozen out? Hazed.
567
00:29:27,856 --> 00:29:30,356
Yeah.
They were less than cordial.
568
00:29:30,356 --> 00:29:32,522
Are you gone?
569
00:29:32,522 --> 00:29:35,056
Mike: They said who needs
this pitchman
570
00:29:35,056 --> 00:29:36,356
for Philip Morris cigarettes?
571
00:29:36,356 --> 00:29:38,389
So here we are.
Pennsylvania Station.
572
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:41,156
Five minutes after seven.
The lights have been on...
573
00:29:41,156 --> 00:29:44,056
the lights have been out
for about an hour and a half.
574
00:29:44,056 --> 00:29:48,189
Mike Wallace
at Pennsylvania Station.
575
00:29:48,189 --> 00:29:50,289
I was tainted
and they were pure.
576
00:29:50,289 --> 00:29:53,022
And so I was not greeted
by everybody
577
00:29:53,022 --> 00:29:57,689
with great enthusiasm.
And then I met Don Hewitt.
578
00:29:57,689 --> 00:29:59,289
Announcer: The newsroom
never sleeps.
579
00:29:59,289 --> 00:30:01,089
The search for stories
has the attention
580
00:30:01,089 --> 00:30:03,756
of Cronkite's executive
producer, Don Hewitt.
581
00:30:03,756 --> 00:30:06,122
...on camera
which we'll illustrate tomorrow.
582
00:30:06,122 --> 00:30:08,122
‐
‐ Crew: Sound roll three,
583
00:30:08,122 --> 00:30:11,089
60 Minutes,
interview with Don Hewitt.
584
00:30:11,089 --> 00:30:12,956
Interviewer: Nothing like
interviewing your boss.
585
00:30:12,956 --> 00:30:15,289
Makes you real comfortable,
you know?
586
00:30:15,289 --> 00:30:19,722
Here's some descriptions
of you. You ready?
587
00:30:19,722 --> 00:30:24,422
Manic, brash, genius,
cocky, competitive,
588
00:30:24,422 --> 00:30:28,889
perfectionist.
I accept everything but genius.
589
00:30:28,889 --> 00:30:31,056
Call me Tuesday when you get
back. Call me collect.
590
00:30:31,056 --> 00:30:33,856
Don: I'm not a brain.
I'm not an intellect.
591
00:30:33,856 --> 00:30:36,356
‐
‐ In the early days,
592
00:30:36,356 --> 00:30:39,922
when there were that bunch
of intellectuals at CBS News,
593
00:30:39,922 --> 00:30:42,556
I think they looked at me
as some sort of upstart.
594
00:30:42,556 --> 00:30:45,289
We're in the seventh grade
of the junior high school
595
00:30:45,289 --> 00:30:47,289
‐ division of the...
‐ Don: Mike and I sort of allied
596
00:30:47,289 --> 00:30:50,756
as two roughneck kids
who didn't come out of Oxford.
597
00:30:50,756 --> 00:30:54,656
...revolution called New Math
is all about...
598
00:30:54,656 --> 00:30:56,689
Interviewer: You said
that they were skeptical of you.
599
00:30:56,689 --> 00:30:58,322
Why were they skeptical?
600
00:30:58,322 --> 00:31:00,056
Mike: You know, I've done all
manner of things
601
00:31:00,056 --> 00:31:02,356
that had nothing to do
with the news.
602
00:31:02,356 --> 00:31:06,989
Mr. Wallace? Mr. Wallace?
603
00:31:06,989 --> 00:31:11,989
‐ I... I give up.
‐
604
00:31:11,989 --> 00:31:14,222
I had to prove myself.
605
00:31:14,222 --> 00:31:16,822
It was apparent to me early on
that the only way
606
00:31:16,822 --> 00:31:18,389
that I was going to get
people to watch
607
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:20,822
wasn't because I was
the kind of reassuring,
608
00:31:20,822 --> 00:31:23,356
avuncular Walter Cronkite type.
609
00:31:23,356 --> 00:31:26,022
Anchor: Mike Wallace,
who has been
traveling the country.
610
00:31:26,022 --> 00:31:29,289
What about civil rights?
Let's touch on that a second.
611
00:31:29,289 --> 00:31:31,856
Mike: It was because I was gonna
research thoroughly
612
00:31:31,856 --> 00:31:33,456
and ask tough questions.
613
00:31:33,456 --> 00:31:35,289
Do you want the lights down
a little bit
614
00:31:35,289 --> 00:31:39,422
do you think for fill? Speed.
615
00:31:39,422 --> 00:31:42,856
Dr. King, you said
that you saw white man's hatred
616
00:31:42,856 --> 00:31:44,722
for the Negro
more bitter than anything
617
00:31:44,722 --> 00:31:46,289
that you had seen
in Mississippi.
618
00:31:46,289 --> 00:31:47,989
What lies at the root
of that hatred?
619
00:31:47,989 --> 00:31:52,956
I think it is basically
a hatred born of fear.
620
00:31:52,956 --> 00:31:54,222
They fear each other
621
00:31:54,222 --> 00:31:55,889
because they don't know
each other,
622
00:31:55,889 --> 00:31:58,556
they don't know each other
because they fail
623
00:31:58,556 --> 00:32:01,889
to communicate with each other,
and they fail to communicate
624
00:32:01,889 --> 00:32:04,556
because they are separated
from each other.
625
00:32:04,556 --> 00:32:06,822
Minister Malcolm,
I believe that you have called
626
00:32:06,822 --> 00:32:08,722
for self‐defense units;
627
00:32:08,722 --> 00:32:12,422
rifle clubs ready
to execute on the spot
628
00:32:12,422 --> 00:32:13,922
those who threaten the Negro.
629
00:32:13,922 --> 00:32:16,356
In a country that spends
I think 50 billion dollars
630
00:32:16,356 --> 00:32:18,122
a year for defense alone,
631
00:32:18,122 --> 00:32:20,822
I'm shocked that there's
apprehension over Negroes
632
00:32:20,822 --> 00:32:22,489
trying to do something
to defend themselves.
633
00:32:22,489 --> 00:32:25,456
Are you the least bit afraid
of what might happen to you?
634
00:32:25,456 --> 00:32:30,822
Oh yes, I probably
am a dead man already.
635
00:32:30,822 --> 00:32:32,889
Anchor: Controversial leader,
Malcolm X
636
00:32:32,889 --> 00:32:35,789
was gunned down
while giving a speech.
637
00:32:35,789 --> 00:32:38,822
One man,
one vote. One man, one vote.
638
00:32:38,822 --> 00:32:41,222
Anchor: Mike Wallace is on
the convention floor
639
00:32:41,222 --> 00:32:43,089
with the Mississippi
delegate.
640
00:32:43,089 --> 00:32:44,456
Ed Bradley: Let me tell you
about the first time
641
00:32:44,456 --> 00:32:46,122
that I worked with you
642
00:32:46,122 --> 00:32:47,689
‐ at the Republican convention.
‐ Mike: Mm‐hmm.
643
00:32:47,689 --> 00:32:49,022
Whenever you were going
to be on the air,
644
00:32:49,022 --> 00:32:50,822
I would stop what I was doing
645
00:32:50,822 --> 00:32:52,956
and leave my quadrant
to go watch you work.
646
00:32:52,956 --> 00:32:57,389
As you can see it's bedlam here,
Roger, Bob.
647
00:32:57,389 --> 00:33:00,256
I remember you climbing up
the steps.
648
00:33:00,256 --> 00:33:02,622
Everybody else was going up
the aisles.
649
00:33:02,622 --> 00:33:04,489
‐ You were the first one
to get to them.
‐ Mike: Mm‐hmm.
650
00:33:04,489 --> 00:33:06,389
Bradley: I mean it was
an amazing thing to watch.
651
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:07,922
Mike: So what's the point?
652
00:33:07,922 --> 00:33:09,722
Bradley: The point
is I was just struck by that.
653
00:33:09,722 --> 00:33:12,422
That there are all of these
veteran reporters out there.
654
00:33:12,422 --> 00:33:13,956
No one else thought of that.
655
00:33:13,956 --> 00:33:18,456
Mike: Listen,
I would go after a story.
656
00:33:18,456 --> 00:33:22,289
No more war!
No more war! No more war!
657
00:33:22,289 --> 00:33:25,256
Mike: There was such ferment
in the country generally.
658
00:33:32,489 --> 00:33:35,722
Mike: Suddenly, 75‐millimeter
recoilless rifle rounds
659
00:33:35,722 --> 00:33:39,022
began dropping in here.
660
00:33:39,022 --> 00:33:41,056
Interviewer: You went to Vietna
for the first time.
661
00:33:41,056 --> 00:33:44,256
What did you see? What did you
smell? What did you hear?
662
00:33:44,256 --> 00:33:47,322
Mike: I was a hawk
when I went there.
663
00:33:47,322 --> 00:33:50,822
And it wasn't long
before I began to understand
664
00:33:50,822 --> 00:33:53,189
that wrong war, wrong time,
wrong place.
665
00:33:53,189 --> 00:33:56,589
Escalation is no shortcut
to peace in Vietnam.
666
00:33:56,589 --> 00:33:59,089
What is the enemy doing?
Are these major attacks or...
667
00:33:59,989 --> 00:34:03,456
Television's presence
at that war
668
00:34:03,456 --> 00:34:06,789
is what turned
the American public against it.
669
00:34:08,056 --> 00:34:15,322
There was virtually
no censorship whatsoever.
670
00:34:15,322 --> 00:34:19,656
Mike: You call the Vietnamese
"gokes". Gooks.
671
00:34:19,656 --> 00:34:20,989
What had you been
briefed to do
672
00:34:20,989 --> 00:34:22,656
when you got to Pinkville?
673
00:34:22,656 --> 00:34:25,822
I was searching out the village
and gathering up the people.
674
00:34:25,822 --> 00:34:28,622
What kind of people? Men,
women, children?
675
00:34:28,622 --> 00:34:29,956
Men, women, children.
676
00:34:29,956 --> 00:34:32,989
‐ Babies?
‐ Babies. Made them squat down
677
00:34:32,989 --> 00:34:35,256
and Lieutenant Kelly
came over and said,
678
00:34:35,256 --> 00:34:37,056
you know what do with them,
don't you?
679
00:34:37,056 --> 00:34:38,922
So he stepped back about 10,
15 feet
680
00:34:38,922 --> 00:34:40,756
and he started shooting them.
681
00:34:40,756 --> 00:34:42,289
And he told me
to start shooting them.
682
00:34:42,289 --> 00:34:44,722
So I started shooting.
I fired about four clicks
683
00:34:44,722 --> 00:34:46,689
into the group.
684
00:34:46,689 --> 00:34:49,122
How many do you imagine
you killed?
685
00:34:49,122 --> 00:34:52,589
I might have killed about 10,
15 of them.
686
00:34:52,589 --> 00:34:54,856
Mm‐hmm.
Men, women and children.
687
00:34:54,856 --> 00:35:01,389
Men, women and children.
And babies. And babies.
688
00:35:01,389 --> 00:35:04,656
Obviously, the question
comes to my mind,
689
00:35:04,656 --> 00:35:07,822
how do you shoot babies?
690
00:35:07,822 --> 00:35:09,856
I don't know,
it's just one of them things.
691
00:35:11,589 --> 00:35:13,422
Mike: The question is
692
00:35:13,422 --> 00:35:16,422
what kind of country
is the United States?
693
00:35:16,422 --> 00:35:18,089
That, in just the last few years
694
00:35:18,089 --> 00:35:20,756
has killed a president,
President Kennedy.
695
00:35:20,756 --> 00:35:22,889
Has killed Martin Luther King.
696
00:35:22,889 --> 00:35:25,789
And now attempts to kill
Robert Kennedy,
697
00:35:25,789 --> 00:35:27,522
Malcolm X, the black militant
leader.
698
00:35:27,522 --> 00:35:31,589
What kind of curious strain
of violence is there
699
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:38,889
in the American people?
Announcer: 1968...
700
00:35:38,889 --> 00:35:42,756
the most pivotal year
since the end of World War Two.
701
00:35:42,756 --> 00:35:47,222
For the country, for politics,
and also in the news business.
702
00:35:47,222 --> 00:35:53,722
The long dark night
for America is about to end.
703
00:35:53,722 --> 00:35:57,022
As soon as he gets toward
the car. Rolling?
704
00:35:57,022 --> 00:35:59,956
This was New Hampshire's
last hurrah to Nixon.
705
00:35:59,956 --> 00:36:01,889
There's only one name
on the Republican ballot
706
00:36:01,889 --> 00:36:03,522
next Tuesday; Richard Nixon.
707
00:36:03,522 --> 00:36:06,189
Mike: I was covering
Richard Nixon at the time.
708
00:36:06,189 --> 00:36:08,389
We were getting along so well
that Nixon wanted me
709
00:36:08,389 --> 00:36:12,889
to join his campaign
as press secretary.
710
00:36:12,889 --> 00:36:14,722
And at that time,
711
00:36:14,722 --> 00:36:16,322
Don Hewitt was a man
that everybody
712
00:36:16,322 --> 00:36:17,989
had decided had had it.
713
00:36:17,989 --> 00:36:22,022
He wasn't up
to the CBS News standard.
714
00:36:22,022 --> 00:36:24,822
So the folks at CBS News
put Hewitt in a room
715
00:36:24,822 --> 00:36:26,189
and said, "Come up with an idea.
716
00:36:26,189 --> 00:36:30,822
Perhaps, we'll put it
on the air." I stole
717
00:36:30,822 --> 00:36:32,389
the idea of 60 Minutes,
718
00:36:32,389 --> 00:36:35,856
lock, stock and barrel
from Life magazine.
719
00:36:35,856 --> 00:36:37,456
The Nixon campaign
in New Hampshire
720
00:36:37,456 --> 00:36:39,989
‐ has been smooth...
‐ And he came to me and he said,
721
00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:41,856
"Tell you what, I'm going
to give you a chance
722
00:36:41,856 --> 00:36:43,489
to do the kind of interviews
you used to do
723
00:36:43,489 --> 00:36:46,456
back at Channel 5
with Night Beat."
724
00:36:46,456 --> 00:36:51,489
And so I cast my lot
with Don Hewitt. Cut.
725
00:36:52,489 --> 00:36:55,722
60 Minutes, volume one.
number one.
726
00:36:55,722 --> 00:36:58,589
New opening, take one.
727
00:37:00,756 --> 00:37:06,256
Well done for us fellows
out here in the trenches.
728
00:37:06,256 --> 00:37:07,356
Crew member: In five.
729
00:37:09,356 --> 00:37:11,356
Dissolve, cue!
730
00:37:11,356 --> 00:37:14,722
Good evening.
This is 60 Minutes.
731
00:37:14,722 --> 00:37:18,222
It's a kind of a magazine
for television.
732
00:37:18,222 --> 00:37:21,056
Nixon acknowledges now
that he withdrew from the press,
733
00:37:21,056 --> 00:37:23,989
that he was afraid of them
and their questions.
734
00:37:23,989 --> 00:37:26,356
There's been so much talk
in recent years of style,
735
00:37:26,356 --> 00:37:27,756
and of charisma.
736
00:37:27,756 --> 00:37:30,589
No one suggests
that you have a good deal of it.
737
00:37:30,589 --> 00:37:34,389
Have you given no thought
to this aspect of campaigning?
738
00:37:34,389 --> 00:37:36,956
And of leading?
739
00:37:36,956 --> 00:37:38,289
Richard: Let me make this
one point.
740
00:37:38,289 --> 00:37:42,189
Some public men
are destined to be loved
741
00:37:42,189 --> 00:37:45,989
and other public men
are destined to be disliked.
742
00:37:45,989 --> 00:37:48,189
The most important thing
is not whether he's loved
743
00:37:48,189 --> 00:37:50,522
or disliked,
but whether he is respected.
744
00:37:50,522 --> 00:37:54,922
And I hope to restore respect
to the presidency.
745
00:37:54,922 --> 00:37:57,922
Larry: Did you know Mike,
that night, that you had
a winner?
746
00:37:57,922 --> 00:38:01,089
Mike: We didn't know
what we were up to.
747
00:38:01,089 --> 00:38:03,956
Anchor: A fan at the University
of Tennessee wrote
748
00:38:03,956 --> 00:38:05,656
"60 Minutes is wonderful.
749
00:38:05,656 --> 00:38:07,989
Does this mean that it
will be dropped in a few weeks?"
750
00:38:07,989 --> 00:38:11,089
We do think
this is sort of a new approach.
751
00:38:11,089 --> 00:38:13,022
We realize, of course,
that new approaches
752
00:38:13,022 --> 00:38:15,156
are not always
instantly accepted.
753
00:38:15,156 --> 00:38:19,422
Mike: We'd finish regularly 85th
out of 100 shows in the ratings.
754
00:38:19,422 --> 00:38:20,956
Mike: Tonight, on 60 Minutes...
755
00:38:20,956 --> 00:38:22,789
Mike: Nobody was paying
any attention.
756
00:38:22,789 --> 00:38:25,156
We were on the air
we were off the air.
757
00:38:25,156 --> 00:38:26,756
‐ We were preempted.
‐
758
00:38:26,756 --> 00:38:29,089
Anchor: From CBS News
in Washington.
759
00:38:29,089 --> 00:38:31,756
Nobody thought
it was going to last.
760
00:38:31,756 --> 00:38:34,822
Nobody thought
it was going to last.
761
00:38:34,822 --> 00:38:37,089
I think we first met
when Harry announced
762
00:38:37,089 --> 00:38:38,922
he was leaving
to go to ABC and...
763
00:38:38,922 --> 00:38:41,656
‐ That was right.
‐ ...I got the call. Mm‐hmm.
764
00:38:41,656 --> 00:38:43,656
How did you feel
about me coming?
765
00:38:43,656 --> 00:38:46,356
Intruder?
Somebody you could push around?
766
00:38:46,356 --> 00:38:49,356
Oh, no, no, no, on the contrary
I was so far ahead you.
767
00:38:49,356 --> 00:38:50,589
I mean everybody knew me.
768
00:38:50,589 --> 00:38:52,789
Who the dickens
was Morley Safer?
769
00:38:52,789 --> 00:38:54,956
You know, big deal.
770
00:38:54,956 --> 00:38:57,456
‐ I'm Mike Wallace.
‐ I'm Morley Safer.
771
00:38:57,456 --> 00:39:00,822
Those stories and more
tonight on 60 Minutes.
772
00:39:00,822 --> 00:39:02,756
I'm Morley Safer.
773
00:39:02,756 --> 00:39:04,556
Mike: We would try
and do anything
we could at that time.
774
00:39:04,556 --> 00:39:06,322
Really. We were experimenting.
We were trying to find out
775
00:39:06,322 --> 00:39:10,356
what worked
and what didn't work.
776
00:39:10,356 --> 00:39:13,389
And then suddenly
what happened?
777
00:39:13,389 --> 00:39:17,156
Watergate came along.
Mike: In the early days,
778
00:39:17,156 --> 00:39:19,056
The Post was all alone
on Watergate
779
00:39:19,056 --> 00:39:20,556
and the White House
was denying it
780
00:39:20,556 --> 00:39:22,622
and the rest of the press corps
ignoring it...
781
00:39:22,622 --> 00:39:24,089
Shabby journalism...
782
00:39:24,089 --> 00:39:25,789
Mike: There were
no other broadcasts
783
00:39:25,789 --> 00:39:27,456
that had the time to devote
784
00:39:27,456 --> 00:39:30,822
to some of the cast
of characters of Watergate,
785
00:39:30,822 --> 00:39:32,856
except 60 Minutes.
786
00:39:32,856 --> 00:39:34,889
Of all the characters
in the Watergate drama,
787
00:39:34,889 --> 00:39:36,889
Gordon Liddy remains
the most mysterious.
788
00:39:36,889 --> 00:39:38,222
They called him
the dirty tricks artist.
789
00:39:38,222 --> 00:39:40,522
And because I had
a relationship
790
00:39:40,522 --> 00:39:42,956
with all of the people
in the Nixon administration...
791
00:39:42,956 --> 00:39:44,956
John Ehrlichman was closer
to the Oval Office...
792
00:39:44,956 --> 00:39:47,289
...as a result,
I began to do interviews
793
00:39:47,289 --> 00:39:50,089
with the entire top cast
of characters.
794
00:39:50,089 --> 00:39:52,389
Did you see Senator Weicker
enumerate a list
795
00:39:52,389 --> 00:39:56,156
of the illegal or unethical acts
of the White House?
796
00:39:56,156 --> 00:39:59,489
‐ No I didn't.
‐ Mike: Let me read them.
797
00:39:59,489 --> 00:40:03,622
Breaking and entering.
Wiretapping,
798
00:40:03,622 --> 00:40:06,656
conspiracy
to foster prostitution,
799
00:40:06,656 --> 00:40:09,056
conspiracy to commit kidnapping.
800
00:40:09,056 --> 00:40:10,856
Destruction
of government documents...
801
00:40:10,856 --> 00:40:12,122
Did the president
ever tell you
802
00:40:12,122 --> 00:40:14,056
to get rid
of the taping equipment?
803
00:40:14,056 --> 00:40:15,889
...forgery of State
Department documents
804
00:40:15,889 --> 00:40:19,089
and campaign letters.
Secret slush funds...
805
00:40:19,089 --> 00:40:20,689
Wait a second,
you mean Silbert knew
806
00:40:20,689 --> 00:40:22,722
about what Kallenbach
was doing for you?
807
00:40:22,722 --> 00:40:25,956
Paying you at that time?
...perjury.
808
00:40:25,956 --> 00:40:28,822
Plans to audit tax returns
for political retaliation...
809
00:40:28,822 --> 00:40:30,489
Have you done more than pray?
810
00:40:30,489 --> 00:40:32,889
Have you tried to make it up
to those you've hurt?
811
00:40:32,889 --> 00:40:36,889
...theft of psychiatric records.
Plans to firebomb a building...
812
00:40:36,889 --> 00:40:40,956
You offered to have
yourself shot, assassinated,
813
00:40:40,956 --> 00:40:43,156
to reassure everybody
that you weren't gonna talk...
814
00:40:43,156 --> 00:40:46,189
All of this by the law
and order administration
815
00:40:46,189 --> 00:40:47,156
of Richard Nixon.
816
00:40:54,289 --> 00:40:58,789
Is there a question
in there somewhere?
817
00:40:58,789 --> 00:41:00,989
Mike: I mean, these things
hit front pages
818
00:41:00,989 --> 00:41:02,222
all across America.
819
00:41:02,222 --> 00:41:03,989
We've got a raft
of mail last week
820
00:41:03,989 --> 00:41:05,689
following our story about...
821
00:41:05,689 --> 00:41:08,356
And gave a certain,
"What is this 60 Minutes?"
822
00:41:08,356 --> 00:41:12,256
Mike: Whenever and however
Mr. Nixon's case is disposed of,
823
00:41:12,256 --> 00:41:15,089
the press' turn will come next.
What did he mean?
824
00:41:15,089 --> 00:41:16,889
The press is gonna be blamed
for it.
825
00:41:16,889 --> 00:41:19,389
And what can the press
do about it if anything?
826
00:41:19,389 --> 00:41:20,956
Hunker down.
827
00:41:20,956 --> 00:41:23,822
Hunker down
and go about our business
828
00:41:23,822 --> 00:41:30,722
which is not to be loved
but to go after the truth.
829
00:41:30,722 --> 00:41:34,989
Mike: That's when we began to do
the real investigative stuff.
830
00:41:34,989 --> 00:41:37,289
The kind of stuff
you hadn't seen at all,
831
00:41:37,289 --> 00:41:38,822
in television.
832
00:41:38,822 --> 00:41:40,322
Standing from the back room
I could hear
833
00:41:40,322 --> 00:41:42,189
what was going on
in the front office;
834
00:41:42,189 --> 00:41:44,889
a pretty frank discussion
about kickbacks.
835
00:41:44,889 --> 00:41:46,956
So I could get five hundred
a week?
836
00:41:46,956 --> 00:41:48,722
Pardon me.
Yeah, just a second, fellas.
837
00:41:48,722 --> 00:41:50,289
And you know
that what you're offering to do
838
00:41:50,289 --> 00:41:54,322
is to break the law. Why?
839
00:41:54,322 --> 00:41:56,389
Tonight, a story
about the big business
840
00:41:56,389 --> 00:41:59,456
in mail order degrees.
Landfall and swindle.
841
00:41:59,456 --> 00:42:00,989
Kiddie Porn. Child pornography.
842
00:42:00,989 --> 00:42:02,989
I've seen them as young
as six years old in here.
843
00:42:02,989 --> 00:42:05,122
‐ Six years old?
‐ Six years old.
844
00:42:05,122 --> 00:42:06,922
Mike: At that point,
I came in.
845
00:42:06,922 --> 00:42:09,622
This time, our camera
was no longer hidden.
846
00:42:09,622 --> 00:42:12,056
We have pictures of you
847
00:42:12,056 --> 00:42:13,989
‐ selling films...
‐ Man: No.
848
00:42:13,989 --> 00:42:17,089
‐ ...to my colleague here...
‐ No. Where did these come from?
849
00:42:17,089 --> 00:42:19,856
I don't know! He put over there!
This is my films.
850
00:42:19,856 --> 00:42:21,522
Of course, you're paying
income tax on this.
851
00:42:21,522 --> 00:42:24,256
‐
‐ What are you laughing about?
852
00:42:24,256 --> 00:42:26,622
They called on the Miami Police
to get us off their property.
853
00:42:26,622 --> 00:42:28,789
Police: You have no right
to be here. I ask you to leave.
854
00:42:28,789 --> 00:42:30,256
You're interrupting
a business.
855
00:42:30,256 --> 00:42:34,022
‐ Don't. Don't. Don't.
‐ Come on in, fellas. No.
856
00:42:34,022 --> 00:42:36,789
Hey, wait a minute.
60 Minutes is in here.
857
00:42:36,789 --> 00:42:38,322
‐ Can you believe it?
‐ Mike: How are you?
858
00:42:38,322 --> 00:42:40,422
‐ 60 Minutes. Hold the phone.
‐ Nice to see you.
859
00:42:40,422 --> 00:42:43,722
Now this is my favorite one.
Gosh, what's your last name?
860
00:42:43,722 --> 00:42:47,489
‐ Wallace. Mike Wallace.
‐ Mike Wallace.
861
00:42:47,489 --> 00:42:50,956
‐
‐
862
00:42:50,956 --> 00:42:53,056
Don: One day somebody
came to me and said,
863
00:42:53,056 --> 00:42:55,089
"You know,
you're in the Top Ten."
And I said the Top Ten what?
864
00:42:55,089 --> 00:42:57,756
He will talk
to Arafat again today.
865
00:42:57,756 --> 00:42:59,422
I didn't know
what a rating point was.
866
00:42:59,422 --> 00:43:01,822
How much time do you think
Mike has for that thing
867
00:43:01,822 --> 00:43:03,322
following the mail?
868
00:43:03,322 --> 00:43:05,056
Mike: This thing took off
for reasons
869
00:43:05,056 --> 00:43:08,122
I still do not understand.
870
00:43:08,122 --> 00:43:10,689
We're not cutting the credits.
I think.
871
00:43:10,689 --> 00:43:13,556
We heard that more people
watch your show
872
00:43:13,556 --> 00:43:15,056
than Walter Cronkite.
873
00:43:15,056 --> 00:43:20,222
And people watch you
more than they watch him.
874
00:43:20,222 --> 00:43:22,356
You know something,
Walter is down the hall
875
00:43:22,356 --> 00:43:25,589
and you don't want to get Walter
angry at me, do you?
876
00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:28,756
Anchor: Its patented blend
of hero reporters
877
00:43:28,756 --> 00:43:32,022
and sweating villains
has redefined TV news.
878
00:43:32,022 --> 00:43:34,822
For better or for worse
is a question for debate,
879
00:43:34,822 --> 00:43:36,489
but you can't argue
with ratings.
880
00:43:36,489 --> 00:43:40,489
60 Minutes is the most watched
news program ever.
881
00:43:40,489 --> 00:43:43,589
Okay. We're very excited
about our first guest tonight.
882
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:45,289
His dogged interviewing style...
883
00:43:45,289 --> 00:43:49,189
...singular brand
of browbeating charm...
884
00:43:49,189 --> 00:43:51,222
...who is highly respected
among his peers.
885
00:43:51,222 --> 00:43:53,589
It's my pleasure
to welcome Mike Wallace.
886
00:43:54,756 --> 00:43:56,922
‐ David Hartman: Mike Wallace!
‐ Merv Griffin: Mike Wallace!
887
00:43:56,922 --> 00:44:00,889
‐ Mike Wallace!
‐ Dinah Shore: Mr. Mike Wallace!
888
00:44:00,889 --> 00:44:05,556
Crew member: Rolling.
Why are you doing this now?
889
00:44:05,556 --> 00:44:07,222
‐ Doing what?
‐ This.
890
00:44:07,222 --> 00:44:09,056
You walked out
on us once before.
891
00:44:09,056 --> 00:44:10,356
‐ Didn't walk out on us.
‐ Well...
892
00:44:10,356 --> 00:44:11,789
I understood
that you're paying me
893
00:44:11,789 --> 00:44:14,822
a large amount of money
for this. You're wrong.
894
00:44:14,822 --> 00:44:16,256
‐ You...
‐ Why are you doing this now?
895
00:44:16,256 --> 00:44:17,822
I'm not running
a boiler room operation.
896
00:44:17,822 --> 00:44:20,389
I have no phony
real estate scam.
897
00:44:20,389 --> 00:44:23,589
I'm not taking any kickbacks.
Well, there's a stereotype
898
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:25,956
‐ of Carson. You know there is.
‐ What is it? What is it?
899
00:44:25,956 --> 00:44:27,689
Ice water in his veins.
900
00:44:27,689 --> 00:44:29,922
‐ I had that taken out
years ago.
‐ Mike: Is that so?
901
00:44:29,922 --> 00:44:31,722
I went to Denmark
and had that done,
902
00:44:31,722 --> 00:44:33,756
‐ it's all over now.
‐ Shy.
903
00:44:33,756 --> 00:44:35,289
‐ Probably true.
‐ Mike: Defensive.
904
00:44:35,289 --> 00:44:37,956
Sometimes in a social situation,
or with people,
905
00:44:37,956 --> 00:44:39,822
I feel a little uncomfortable.
906
00:44:39,822 --> 00:44:41,156
See when I'm in front
of an audience,
907
00:44:41,156 --> 00:44:43,722
‐ it's a different thing.
‐ Why?
908
00:44:43,722 --> 00:44:45,589
I'm in control.
I can handle the audience,
909
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:47,689
and I can set the timing,
and I can set the pacing.
910
00:44:47,689 --> 00:44:50,889
And then I can play with that.
There's Carson the performer,
911
00:44:50,889 --> 00:44:52,722
then there's Carson
the private individual.
912
00:44:52,722 --> 00:44:54,756
When the camera goes on...
913
00:44:54,756 --> 00:44:56,689
‐ Yeah.
‐ ...they are your family.
914
00:44:56,689 --> 00:44:58,522
‐ That's right.
‐ Man: Here's AB Roll...
915
00:44:58,522 --> 00:45:02,356
Morley: People started
to tune in to us in big numbers
916
00:45:02,356 --> 00:45:05,256
to see what Mike Wallace
was gonna be up to next.
917
00:45:05,256 --> 00:45:06,622
Okay.
918
00:45:06,622 --> 00:45:08,222
You're never gonna live it down,
Mike. I guarantee it.
919
00:45:08,222 --> 00:45:11,489
I'll use it to show
just what the press is.
920
00:45:11,489 --> 00:45:14,056
You're contemptible,
I mean this not for the camera.
921
00:45:14,056 --> 00:45:17,789
I'd like you
to get out of here, immediately.
922
00:45:17,789 --> 00:45:19,756
I hope you got it
and I hope you have the guts
923
00:45:19,756 --> 00:45:22,622
to use it!
924
00:45:22,622 --> 00:45:25,889
There is a new billionaire
in town. Trump's the name.
925
00:45:25,889 --> 00:45:27,789
Donald Trump
is a major dealmaker,
926
00:45:27,789 --> 00:45:33,289
a swashbuckler. Donald,
you're in your late 30s.
927
00:45:33,289 --> 00:45:36,222
You got 40 years to live,
minimum.
928
00:45:36,222 --> 00:45:37,622
Well I hope you're right
about that.
929
00:45:37,622 --> 00:45:40,389
What are you gonna do?
There are a lot of things to do.
930
00:45:40,389 --> 00:45:42,822
You know, a fertile imagination
and a good fertile mind, Mike,
931
00:45:42,822 --> 00:45:44,422
it's an amazing...
It's really amazing
932
00:45:44,422 --> 00:45:46,889
what can be thought of,
there's so many things to do.
933
00:45:46,889 --> 00:45:48,189
‐ Politics?
‐ There's so many...
934
00:45:48,189 --> 00:45:49,689
No, not politics.
935
00:45:49,689 --> 00:45:51,822
You've said that you could do
a better job at negotiating
936
00:45:51,822 --> 00:45:53,822
an arms control
agreement with the Soviets,
937
00:45:53,822 --> 00:45:55,189
than some of these professionals
938
00:45:55,189 --> 00:45:56,922
who've been trying
to do it for years.
939
00:45:56,922 --> 00:45:58,622
I didn't say me, Mike,
I said somebody has to do it.
940
00:45:58,622 --> 00:45:59,822
If it were me, that'd be fine,
941
00:45:59,822 --> 00:46:01,089
‐ I could do it.
‐ You...
942
00:46:01,089 --> 00:46:03,022
Somebody has to help
this country
943
00:46:03,022 --> 00:46:05,422
and if they don't,
the country and the world
944
00:46:05,422 --> 00:46:06,656
are in big trouble.
945
00:46:06,656 --> 00:46:08,389
Because within
a short period of time,
946
00:46:08,389 --> 00:46:10,822
as sure as we're sitting here,
there's not gonna be a country
947
00:46:10,822 --> 00:46:12,989
and there's not gonna be
a world.
948
00:46:12,989 --> 00:46:15,256
Anchor: He could get
with a question,
949
00:46:15,256 --> 00:46:19,556
‐ to the very core of the story.
‐ How much do you make?
950
00:46:20,822 --> 00:46:22,622
‐ What's your salary?
‐
951
00:46:29,656 --> 00:46:35,489
Hard question. Simple question.
Morley: There was no off switch
952
00:46:35,489 --> 00:46:39,189
If it was in his head,
it came out of his mouth.
953
00:46:39,189 --> 00:46:42,289
You really believe
that you lived lives before?
954
00:46:42,289 --> 00:46:43,956
‐ And...
‐ Oh, yes, Mike. I don't...
955
00:46:43,956 --> 00:46:45,556
There is no doubt
in my mind about it.
956
00:46:45,556 --> 00:46:47,022
Mike: Mm‐hmm.
957
00:46:47,022 --> 00:46:48,922
And you really believe
in extraterrestrial...
958
00:46:48,922 --> 00:46:53,056
Have they... Do they
come visit you on the porch?
959
00:46:53,056 --> 00:46:55,222
"Now you're being unpleasant,
Wallace" is what you're saying.
960
00:46:55,222 --> 00:46:57,589
Oh, yes. This is
what I was a little afraid of.
961
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:59,622
‐ Mike: Oh...
‐ You don't have
to be that unpleasant.
962
00:46:59,622 --> 00:47:01,356
It doesn't become you, you know?
963
00:47:01,356 --> 00:47:04,389
Morley: But Mike
would steal stories.
964
00:47:04,389 --> 00:47:07,789
There is
that schoolboy competitiveness.
965
00:47:07,789 --> 00:47:10,156
‐
‐ Maestro, tell me something...
966
00:47:10,156 --> 00:47:11,889
Morley: Competitive
beyond belief.
967
00:47:11,889 --> 00:47:13,556
Here we are
at Madison Square Garden...
968
00:47:13,556 --> 00:47:16,289
Anchor: And at the same time,
unsure of himself.
969
00:47:16,289 --> 00:47:18,056
Mr. Right...
970
00:47:18,056 --> 00:47:21,356
Morley: That he had not paid
his dues as a journalist.
971
00:47:21,356 --> 00:47:26,156
That uncertainty
or that even perhaps shame...
972
00:47:26,156 --> 00:47:28,089
‐ haunted him.
‐ What is a racist?
973
00:47:28,089 --> 00:47:29,722
Morley: He was going to go out
and prove
974
00:47:29,722 --> 00:47:32,189
I'm as good as anybody
in this racket.
975
00:47:32,189 --> 00:47:35,256
60,000 jobs have gone down
the drain. You've laid out...
976
00:47:35,256 --> 00:47:37,189
Morley: And I once said to him,
I said,
977
00:47:37,189 --> 00:47:39,289
"Mike, you don't have to prove
yourself, for God's sake.
978
00:47:39,289 --> 00:47:41,056
Everybody knows you're good.
You're terrific.
979
00:47:41,056 --> 00:47:43,289
You're a big star."
980
00:47:43,289 --> 00:47:46,489
You've had a reputation
as a very difficult guy.
981
00:47:46,489 --> 00:47:47,822
For years.
982
00:47:47,822 --> 00:47:51,556
Why? Where did that all
come from, Kirk?
983
00:47:51,556 --> 00:47:53,122
It shows you
what a good actor I am,
984
00:47:53,122 --> 00:47:54,956
because I really am
the sweetest.
985
00:47:54,956 --> 00:47:57,056
Come on. Everybody says
986
00:47:57,056 --> 00:47:59,222
that in the old days
you were an exceedingly...
987
00:47:59,222 --> 00:48:01,356
Even your own kids said
that you were very difficult.
988
00:48:01,356 --> 00:48:03,289
Oh, there's no doubt about that.
989
00:48:03,289 --> 00:48:05,056
But I think most the things
that I did wrong
990
00:48:05,056 --> 00:48:06,389
comes out of an insecurity.
991
00:48:06,389 --> 00:48:08,356
What the dickens
are you insecure about?
992
00:48:08,356 --> 00:48:13,056
Michael, I think that no one
is ever free of insecurities
993
00:48:13,056 --> 00:48:15,756
whether maybe in the
relationship with their kids,
994
00:48:15,756 --> 00:48:17,089
in the relationship
with their wife,
995
00:48:17,089 --> 00:48:19,156
and in the relationship
with their work.
996
00:48:19,156 --> 00:48:21,656
Twenty or 30 years
of psychoanalysis,
997
00:48:21,656 --> 00:48:24,589
I say to myself, what is it
that she's trying to find out
998
00:48:24,589 --> 00:48:27,322
‐ that takes 20 to 30 years?
‐ I'm a slow learner.
999
00:48:27,322 --> 00:48:29,622
For some reason
I feel like your father
1000
00:48:29,622 --> 00:48:31,889
‐ or your uncle or something.
‐ Barbra: Well, that's good.
1001
00:48:31,889 --> 00:48:33,922
At least you're feeling.
1002
00:48:33,922 --> 00:48:35,422
‐ That's good.
‐ Oh, I've got to tell you,
1003
00:48:35,422 --> 00:48:37,289
my feelings are as close
to the surface...
1004
00:48:37,289 --> 00:48:39,089
‐ Are they?
‐ ...as your own.
1005
00:48:39,089 --> 00:48:40,956
‐ So you put on this facade...
‐ You are damn right.
1006
00:48:40,956 --> 00:48:44,522
...in other words, you put on
this facade of toughness.
1007
00:48:44,522 --> 00:48:48,129
Crew member: Roll one, take one!
1008
00:48:48,129 --> 00:48:51,195
Don: Look, there's a lot
of temperament in Mike.
1009
00:48:51,195 --> 00:48:52,329
It's gonna be dull
as hell, please.
1010
00:48:52,329 --> 00:48:53,695
Crew member: Take three!
1011
00:48:53,695 --> 00:48:55,829
No, no, no. You're going
much too fast.
1012
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:57,162
Crew member: Take five!
1013
00:48:57,162 --> 00:48:59,395
What the fuck are doing?
This is supposed to be here.
1014
00:48:59,395 --> 00:49:01,162
‐ Are you reading?
‐ Yes.
1015
00:49:01,162 --> 00:49:02,529
Here we go, this is the one.
1016
00:49:02,529 --> 00:49:04,562
God damn, could give me
a slightly shot...
1017
00:49:04,562 --> 00:49:06,095
slightly different shot?
1018
00:49:06,095 --> 00:49:08,495
But show me someone
with no temperament,
1019
00:49:08,495 --> 00:49:10,962
and I'll show you someone
with no talent.
1020
00:49:10,962 --> 00:49:15,295
Sweet shit, should we start
from the beginning again?
1021
00:49:15,295 --> 00:49:17,662
The journalist
as a household word,
1022
00:49:17,662 --> 00:49:19,029
Oriana Fallaci.
1023
00:49:19,029 --> 00:49:23,862
She is an Italian journalist.
Resourceful, ambitious, arrogant.
1024
00:49:23,862 --> 00:49:25,629
Her revealing interviews
are merely conversations
1025
00:49:25,629 --> 00:49:27,295
to begin with, she says.
1026
00:49:27,295 --> 00:49:28,795
Then she transcribes
them herself
1027
00:49:28,795 --> 00:49:31,295
and turns them
into morality dramas.
1028
00:49:31,295 --> 00:49:35,595
She plays the role of judge;
the interviewee is on trial,
1029
00:49:35,595 --> 00:49:38,662
and few are found innocent.
1030
00:49:38,662 --> 00:49:41,429
I hate objectivity, you know.
I have told it many times.
1031
00:49:41,429 --> 00:49:43,695
I do not believe in objectivity.
1032
00:49:43,695 --> 00:49:47,729
I believe in what I see,
what I hear and what I feel.
1033
00:49:47,729 --> 00:49:50,529
‐ Power, you have power?
‐ Oh no, I have no power.
1034
00:49:50,529 --> 00:49:52,629
‐ No? None whatsoever?
‐ You are not one of those
1035
00:49:52,629 --> 00:49:55,262
who think that we journalists
have power.
1036
00:49:55,262 --> 00:49:56,895
‐ No?
‐ Ah.
1037
00:49:56,895 --> 00:50:00,462
We are like the dogs.
1038
00:50:00,462 --> 00:50:05,129
And nobody listens to us.
You're an entertainer?
1039
00:50:05,129 --> 00:50:06,762
I'm an historian.
1040
00:50:06,762 --> 00:50:08,495
‐ You're not an historian.
‐ Yes, I am.
1041
00:50:08,495 --> 00:50:09,895
‐ You're a journalist.
‐ No, sir.
1042
00:50:09,895 --> 00:50:11,962
‐ A journalist is an historian.
‐ No, no, wait.
1043
00:50:11,962 --> 00:50:16,529
Listen, a journalist is a person
who writes history
1044
00:50:16,529 --> 00:50:19,762
in the same moment
that history happens.
1045
00:50:19,762 --> 00:50:22,362
And it is the damn best way
to write history.
1046
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:39,462
Good evening. In Tehran tonight,
1047
00:50:39,462 --> 00:50:41,162
the American embassy
is in the hands
1048
00:50:41,162 --> 00:50:42,995
of several hundred
Iranian students
1049
00:50:42,995 --> 00:50:45,195
who took control
after a three‐hour skirmish
1050
00:50:45,195 --> 00:50:48,029
with U. S. Marines.
They are holding hostages.
1051
00:50:48,029 --> 00:50:50,029
One report says
as many as a hundred.
1052
00:50:50,029 --> 00:50:53,829
Muslim students in Iran
spurred on by Ayatollah Khomeini
1053
00:50:53,829 --> 00:50:56,629
today escalated their war
against what he calls
1054
00:50:56,629 --> 00:51:01,762
the Great Satan America.
I'm really infuriated because...
1055
00:51:01,762 --> 00:51:04,929
this is not Islam.
Islam doesn't teach at all
1056
00:51:04,929 --> 00:51:11,962
what this man...
Such a lunatic like this man.
1057
00:51:11,962 --> 00:51:14,062
Mike: I was standing
in a toxic waste dump
1058
00:51:14,062 --> 00:51:15,995
in Stockton, California.
1059
00:51:15,995 --> 00:51:18,195
When all of a sudden
the word came:
1060
00:51:18,195 --> 00:51:19,695
Khomeini will see you.
1061
00:51:28,695 --> 00:51:30,229
Morley: Did you have
any concern
1062
00:51:30,229 --> 00:51:31,995
about going over there
at that time?
1063
00:51:31,995 --> 00:51:34,295
Mike: What are they going to do
Take you hostage yourself?
1064
00:51:34,295 --> 00:51:38,629
Morley: Maybe. They took
the other Americans hostage.
1065
00:51:38,629 --> 00:51:40,129
You never thought...
It never crossed your mind?
1066
00:51:40,129 --> 00:51:42,462
Mike: Honest, if you got
a hell of a story
1067
00:51:42,462 --> 00:51:44,329
on your hands, no.
1068
00:51:54,529 --> 00:51:56,429
Morley: What was
the atmosphere in the room like?
1069
00:51:56,429 --> 00:51:58,095
Mike: I was immediately told
1070
00:51:58,095 --> 00:52:00,395
you have to give us
the questions ahead of time.
1071
00:52:00,395 --> 00:52:02,129
Morley: Was there a lot
of tension in the room
1072
00:52:02,129 --> 00:52:03,495
when you went in there?
1073
00:52:03,495 --> 00:52:05,195
Mike: He had
his own cameras there.
1074
00:52:05,195 --> 00:52:11,062
Everybody had to be satisfied
with the questions.
1075
00:52:26,562 --> 00:52:31,362
Well, let's... let us begin.
Do you still say, Imam,
1076
00:52:31,362 --> 00:52:34,995
that if the Shah
is not returned to Iran
1077
00:52:34,995 --> 00:52:39,395
that those American hostages
in the American embassy compound
1078
00:52:39,395 --> 00:52:42,295
will not be freed?
1079
00:52:52,062 --> 00:52:55,729
But that is not an answer
to whether the hostages
1080
00:52:55,729 --> 00:52:56,795
will be freed.
1081
00:52:56,795 --> 00:52:58,462
His Eminence prefers
that you put up
1082
00:52:58,462 --> 00:53:00,229
the rest of the questions
and then later on,
1083
00:53:00,229 --> 00:53:01,595
I'll translate for you
so that...
1084
00:53:01,595 --> 00:53:03,462
his Eminence can be faster.
1085
00:53:03,462 --> 00:53:07,695
Unless I know what he is saying,
it will not make sense.
1086
00:53:07,695 --> 00:53:09,729
I must understand as we go.
1087
00:53:09,729 --> 00:53:12,429
Otherwise it is not
an interview
1088
00:53:12,429 --> 00:53:15,562
and I will have no way
of understanding.
1089
00:53:19,429 --> 00:53:25,929
Imam, President Sadat of Egypt,
1090
00:53:25,929 --> 00:53:30,195
a devoutly religious man,
a Muslim,
1091
00:53:30,195 --> 00:53:35,795
says that what you are doing now
is quote, "A disgrace to Islam."
1092
00:53:35,795 --> 00:53:41,962
And he calls you, Imam,
forgive me, his words, not mine,
1093
00:53:41,962 --> 00:53:43,495
"A lunatic."
1094
00:53:43,495 --> 00:53:46,229
I know that you have heard
that comment.
1095
00:53:46,229 --> 00:53:47,695
I'm not sure if I can get
the answer
1096
00:53:47,695 --> 00:53:49,429
because this was not
in the questions.
1097
00:53:49,429 --> 00:53:51,362
Please ask him. I'm sure...
It's a very simple,
1098
00:53:51,362 --> 00:53:52,795
straightforward question.
1099
00:53:52,795 --> 00:53:56,429
I heard that the Imam
is a disgrace to Islam.
1100
00:53:56,429 --> 00:53:58,595
And he used the word a lunatic.
1101
00:54:17,362 --> 00:54:20,262
Then he is a traitor to Islam,
Sadat?
1102
00:54:32,329 --> 00:54:34,395
He calls upon
the Egyptian people
1103
00:54:34,395 --> 00:54:36,695
‐ to overthrow Sadat.
‐ Translator: Exactly.
1104
00:54:54,695 --> 00:54:56,162
Interviewer: It's the first time
I remember you
1105
00:54:56,162 --> 00:54:59,795
asking a question that way.
"Forgive me."
1106
00:54:59,795 --> 00:55:04,162
It's a very artful way
to ask the question.
1107
00:55:04,162 --> 00:55:06,862
Mike: In effect, he called
for the overthrow
1108
00:55:06,862 --> 00:55:10,429
of Anwar Sadat.
That was interpreted
1109
00:55:10,429 --> 00:55:13,129
as calling
for the assassination.
1110
00:55:14,662 --> 00:55:18,929
And of course,
that's exactly what happened.
1111
00:55:18,929 --> 00:55:21,095
Anchor: The celebration turned
to terror.
1112
00:55:21,095 --> 00:55:23,562
President Sadat and others
on the reviewing stand
with him,
1113
00:55:23,562 --> 00:55:29,662
raked with gunfire.
President Sadat,
1114
00:55:29,662 --> 00:55:31,829
62 years old is dead.
1115
00:55:45,129 --> 00:55:47,762
Charles: Mr. Wallace.
1116
00:55:47,762 --> 00:55:50,095
Are you aware
that what you are doing
1117
00:55:50,095 --> 00:55:52,562
is seriously endangering people?
1118
00:55:52,562 --> 00:55:54,062
That's the way you're going
to educate the public,
1119
00:55:54,062 --> 00:55:55,995
‐ through your questions?
‐ Through the questions
1120
00:55:55,995 --> 00:55:57,629
and the answers, yes.
1121
00:55:57,629 --> 00:56:01,595
Are you tempted
during those interviews, to usurp
1122
00:56:01,595 --> 00:56:04,162
the powers of our secretary
of state
1123
00:56:04,162 --> 00:56:08,862
and go right for "I'll...
Mike Wallace will settle this!"
1124
00:56:08,862 --> 00:56:10,795
Television journalism
has been coming
1125
00:56:10,795 --> 00:56:12,095
under recent criticism.
1126
00:56:12,095 --> 00:56:14,495
Some polls have shown
that public confidence
1127
00:56:14,495 --> 00:56:16,029
is eroding.
1128
00:56:16,029 --> 00:56:19,795
We have heard increasingly
talk about news glut.
1129
00:56:19,795 --> 00:56:23,129
Information is becoming
certainly a bigger business.
1130
00:56:23,129 --> 00:56:25,962
‐ Is it bad?
‐ It's hard to cope with,
I guess.
1131
00:56:25,962 --> 00:56:27,862
You used the word "business",
1132
00:56:27,862 --> 00:56:30,395
and let's face it.
It is a business.
1133
00:56:30,395 --> 00:56:32,095
The business of network news
1134
00:56:32,095 --> 00:56:35,329
has become one of the highest
stakes games in television.
1135
00:56:35,329 --> 00:56:40,562
Interviewer:
1136
00:56:40,562 --> 00:56:42,429
I think there are too many
news magazines
1137
00:56:42,429 --> 00:56:43,995
on the networks now, sure.
1138
00:56:43,995 --> 00:56:47,029
Good evening. I'm Hugh Downs
and this is 20/20.
1139
00:56:47,029 --> 00:56:48,995
Announcer:
On the ABC News Magazine.
1140
00:56:48,995 --> 00:56:50,695
Anchor: Dateline Monday.
1141
00:56:50,695 --> 00:56:52,929
‐ Anchor 1: Day One.
‐ Anchor 2: This is Nightline.
1142
00:56:52,929 --> 00:56:54,862
Mike: I think the reason
they're there
1143
00:56:54,862 --> 00:56:56,895
is because there has been
a thirst in the audience.
1144
00:56:56,895 --> 00:57:00,029
How to turn news
into a primetime ratings hit.
1145
00:57:00,029 --> 00:57:03,362
I think the magazine programs
outside of the network purview
1146
00:57:03,362 --> 00:57:05,129
have helped journalism
tremendously.
1147
00:57:05,129 --> 00:57:06,529
Like Bonnie and Clyde,
1148
00:57:06,529 --> 00:57:08,862
they crossed the country
in a crime rampage.
1149
00:57:08,862 --> 00:57:11,695
Maury Povich: Pit bull terriers.
Kids' pets or killer dogs?
1150
00:57:11,695 --> 00:57:14,995
I'm Maury Povich.
Tonight on A Current Affair.
1151
00:57:14,995 --> 00:57:16,395
Crew member: Take two!
1152
00:57:16,395 --> 00:57:18,495
‐ All right, here we go.
‐ Crew member: Standby.
1153
00:57:18,495 --> 00:57:20,095
‐ Rolling?
‐ You gotta be back, buddy.
1154
00:57:20,095 --> 00:57:24,695
You gotta be out of the shot.
So Keigel Vay, who himself stood
1155
00:57:24,695 --> 00:57:26,795
to profit handsomely
when his clients expand...
1156
00:57:26,795 --> 00:57:30,129
You reach people
very well that way in a very...
1157
00:57:30,129 --> 00:57:34,329
I'm not ashamed to use the word
in a very dramatic way to say,
1158
00:57:34,329 --> 00:57:36,462
‐ wait a minute.
‐ Charles: Mr. Taylor,
1159
00:57:36,462 --> 00:57:40,862
is what Mr. Wallace does
good journalism?
1160
00:57:43,529 --> 00:57:49,062
I think it's marvelous drama,
1161
00:57:49,062 --> 00:57:52,529
and has very little to do
with journalism.
1162
00:57:52,529 --> 00:57:55,295
I can't believe
that I'm hearing this from you.
1163
00:57:55,295 --> 00:57:58,629
I really cannot believe it.
Mr. Wallace.
1164
00:57:58,629 --> 00:58:00,762
Do you think that the way
he reports on business
1165
00:58:00,762 --> 00:58:04,029
‐ is good journalism?
‐ Yes.
1166
00:58:04,029 --> 00:58:05,862
Why won't you say the same
for him? I mean that's...
1167
00:58:05,862 --> 00:58:08,429
Taylor: Because I don't,
I don't think it's journalism.
1168
00:58:08,429 --> 00:58:10,395
I think it's show business.
1169
00:58:10,395 --> 00:58:12,762
Bring it back down,
let's do it again.
1170
00:58:12,762 --> 00:58:16,529
Mike: We were the number one
broadcast in America.
1171
00:58:16,529 --> 00:58:20,295
But I don't care who you are
and how lucky,
1172
00:58:20,295 --> 00:58:22,295
you realize that...
1173
00:58:22,295 --> 00:58:25,929
life is going to even up
somehow.
1174
00:58:25,929 --> 00:58:27,129
Perfect, let's go home.
1175
00:58:28,795 --> 00:58:32,195
Life is gonna turn around
and bite you in the back.
1176
00:58:38,862 --> 00:58:40,662
Interviewer: When 60 Minutes
was at the peak
1177
00:58:40,662 --> 00:58:42,895
of its power in the early '80s,
1178
00:58:42,895 --> 00:58:47,362
CBS News and you
personally are sued
1179
00:58:47,362 --> 00:58:51,995
by General William Westmoreland,
the commander of American Forces
1180
00:58:51,995 --> 00:58:53,462
in the lost American war...
1181
00:58:53,462 --> 00:58:55,529
‐ Mm‐hmm.
‐ ...in Vietnam.
1182
00:58:55,529 --> 00:58:58,195
I have been subjected
to a vicious, scurrilous
1183
00:58:58,195 --> 00:58:59,695
and premeditated attack
1184
00:58:59,695 --> 00:59:03,362
on my character
and personal integrity.
1185
00:59:03,362 --> 00:59:07,495
The sham was perpetrated
by the unscrupulous
1186
00:59:07,495 --> 00:59:10,295
and arrogant, Mike Wallace.
1187
00:59:10,295 --> 00:59:14,495
With distorted false
and specious information
1188
00:59:14,495 --> 00:59:18,862
an attempt to execute me
on the guillotine...
1189
00:59:18,862 --> 00:59:20,562
of public opinion.
1190
00:59:20,562 --> 00:59:22,862
Retired U. S. Army General
William Westmoreland today
1191
00:59:22,862 --> 00:59:25,029
filed suit against
CBS Incorporated.
1192
00:59:25,029 --> 00:59:27,429
He charged in federal court
that he was libeled
1193
00:59:27,429 --> 00:59:29,229
in a CBS News documentary
1194
00:59:29,229 --> 00:59:31,029
about enemy
troop strength reports
1195
00:59:31,029 --> 00:59:33,195
during the Vietnam War.
1196
00:59:33,195 --> 00:59:35,795
You couldn't ask
for more troops.
1197
00:59:35,795 --> 00:59:38,162
Therefore,
you couldn't let the enemy
1198
00:59:38,162 --> 00:59:39,629
be perceived as larger.
1199
00:59:39,629 --> 00:59:41,662
Well, that is absolutely
fallacious.
1200
00:59:41,662 --> 00:59:43,995
It has no validity, whatsoever.
1201
00:59:43,995 --> 00:59:46,695
I'm absolutely amazed
that you would come out
1202
00:59:46,695 --> 00:59:48,262
with a statement like that.
1203
00:59:48,262 --> 00:59:49,795
‐ It's not a statement...
‐ It has...
1204
00:59:49,795 --> 00:59:51,695
‐ It's a question.
‐ It has no basis, whatsoever.
1205
00:59:51,695 --> 00:59:53,529
Didn't you make this clear
in your August 20th cable...
1206
00:59:53,529 --> 00:59:54,962
William: No, no, yeah, no.
1207
00:59:54,962 --> 00:59:56,495
I have a copy
of your August 20th cable...
1208
00:59:56,495 --> 00:59:57,762
Sure, okay, okay.
1209
00:59:57,762 --> 00:59:59,229
Spelling out
the command position
1210
00:59:59,229 --> 01:00:00,895
on the self‐defense controversy.
1211
01:00:00,895 --> 01:00:03,062
As you put up in the cable,
you say the principle reason
1212
01:00:03,062 --> 01:00:06,029
why the South Defense Militia
must go, quote,
1213
01:00:06,029 --> 01:00:07,529
"Was press reaction."
1214
01:00:07,529 --> 01:00:10,562
I made the decision.
It was my responsibility.
1215
01:00:10,562 --> 01:00:13,262
I don't regret making it.
I stand by it.
1216
01:00:13,262 --> 01:00:15,662
And the facts prove
that I was right.
1217
01:00:15,662 --> 01:00:19,895
‐ Now, let's stop it.
‐ All right, Sir.
1218
01:00:19,895 --> 01:00:21,762
It was all there.
1219
01:00:21,762 --> 01:00:25,429
The arrogance, the color,
the drama, the contrived plot,
1220
01:00:25,429 --> 01:00:30,262
the close shots...
everything but the truth.
1221
01:00:31,695 --> 01:00:35,062
Mike Wallace
and his boy George Crile
1222
01:00:35,062 --> 01:00:36,729
in my view...
1223
01:00:36,729 --> 01:00:40,095
are a disgrace
to American journalism.
1224
01:00:41,329 --> 01:00:44,362
Anchor: Opening arguments
began today
1225
01:00:44,362 --> 01:00:46,329
in the 120 million‐dollar
libel case
1226
01:00:46,329 --> 01:00:48,462
by William Westmoreland
against CBS.
1227
01:00:48,462 --> 01:00:51,595
Many journalists worry
that the immediate accusations
1228
01:00:51,595 --> 01:00:54,695
could damage public trust
in all the media.
1229
01:00:54,695 --> 01:00:56,362
There have also been accusations
1230
01:00:56,362 --> 01:00:59,229
that Wallace only played
the part of a reporter.
1231
01:00:59,229 --> 01:01:00,929
Anchor: TV Guide called it
a smear
1232
01:01:00,929 --> 01:01:04,529
and that triggered a top‐level
internal investigation.
1233
01:01:04,529 --> 01:01:06,929
I want to talk
about the Westmoreland case.
1234
01:01:06,929 --> 01:01:08,329
The TV Guide article
1235
01:01:08,329 --> 01:01:09,762
that originally caused
so many questions
1236
01:01:09,762 --> 01:01:11,829
about the whole
Westmoreland case says,
1237
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:15,695
"George Crile, the producer
of the Westmoreland Hour,
1238
01:01:15,695 --> 01:01:19,195
wrote virtually
all of your questions."
1239
01:01:19,195 --> 01:01:22,362
‐ True?
‐ He wrote a lot of questions.
1240
01:01:22,362 --> 01:01:24,595
Don Cowet said "Mike Wallace,
1241
01:01:24,595 --> 01:01:27,562
America's most feared
investigative reporter
1242
01:01:27,562 --> 01:01:31,962
had merely been a puppet
on George Crile's knee."
1243
01:01:31,962 --> 01:01:33,362
Do you think so?
1244
01:01:33,362 --> 01:01:35,229
‐ What do you think?
‐ Oh, of course not.
1245
01:01:35,229 --> 01:01:36,462
Is that the way
you usually work,
1246
01:01:36,462 --> 01:01:37,529
with two thirds
of your questions
1247
01:01:37,529 --> 01:01:39,729
written by someone else?
1248
01:01:39,729 --> 01:01:41,629
I was at that same time
trying to do
1249
01:01:41,629 --> 01:01:44,229
a good many pieces
on 60 Minutes.
1250
01:01:44,229 --> 01:01:45,662
‐ And so...
‐ So why do they need you?
1251
01:01:45,662 --> 01:01:47,162
I mean if somebody else
is writing...
1252
01:01:47,162 --> 01:01:48,729
Well, that's a perfectly
good question.
1253
01:01:48,729 --> 01:01:51,229
Not to have something to do
with the so‐called...
1254
01:01:51,229 --> 01:01:52,895
star system or the...
1255
01:01:52,895 --> 01:01:54,629
‐ Or the... Heavy System.
‐ You don't want to be thought
1256
01:01:54,629 --> 01:01:56,129
of as an actor who comes in
and reads questions.
1257
01:01:56,129 --> 01:01:57,929
‐ And I think that you're...
‐ And you're not.
1258
01:01:57,929 --> 01:01:59,962
‐ And you're not.
‐ That's right, okay.
1259
01:01:59,962 --> 01:02:01,429
So, what's the question?
1260
01:02:01,429 --> 01:02:06,129
Doesn't it trouble you
to be called a puppet?
1261
01:02:07,695 --> 01:02:11,795
Winston Churchill
called it "The Black Dog".
1262
01:02:11,795 --> 01:02:14,495
Abe Lincoln was so anguished
by it he cried,
1263
01:02:14,495 --> 01:02:16,762
"I am now the most miserable man
living.
1264
01:02:16,762 --> 01:02:19,129
If what I feel
were equally distributed
1265
01:02:19,129 --> 01:02:20,562
to the whole human family,
1266
01:02:20,562 --> 01:02:23,562
there would be not one
cheerful face on earth."
1267
01:02:23,562 --> 01:02:25,929
It is mental depression.
1268
01:02:25,929 --> 01:02:28,329
George: Fear is something
that I've never known.
1269
01:02:28,329 --> 01:02:30,262
I've never been afraid
of anything.
1270
01:02:30,262 --> 01:02:34,262
But here was this damnable
kind of annoying fear that...
1271
01:02:34,262 --> 01:02:36,862
‐ that maybe I was losing
my grip...
‐ Well, now wait a minute.
1272
01:02:36,862 --> 01:02:38,962
Former Assistant Secretary
of Defense,
1273
01:02:38,962 --> 01:02:43,195
head of successful company,
a millionaire and...
1274
01:02:43,195 --> 01:02:44,829
then all of a sudden?
1275
01:02:44,829 --> 01:02:46,695
That's right.
These things started to happen.
1276
01:02:46,695 --> 01:02:48,662
Now, you must understand...
1277
01:02:48,662 --> 01:02:52,529
that this is a gradual onset.
It's an insidious thing.
1278
01:02:52,529 --> 01:02:54,329
I got to the point
where this thing
1279
01:02:54,329 --> 01:02:56,629
preyed on my mind
so and I was filled
1280
01:02:56,629 --> 01:02:59,029
with such agonizing fear
that I couldn't...
1281
01:02:59,029 --> 01:03:01,429
hardly bring myself
to answer the phone
1282
01:03:01,429 --> 01:03:03,529
for fear it'd be somebody
I'd have to talk to.
1283
01:03:03,529 --> 01:03:07,729
Total continuing, unrelenting,
unremitting depression,
1284
01:03:07,729 --> 01:03:10,695
24 hours a day.
1285
01:03:10,695 --> 01:03:14,229
Morley: A lot of people who...
who suffer from depression
1286
01:03:14,229 --> 01:03:16,629
say they really had it
1287
01:03:16,629 --> 01:03:19,962
a long time before
it was actually diagnosed.
1288
01:03:19,962 --> 01:03:23,695
Is that true?
1289
01:03:23,695 --> 01:03:27,762
Mike: I had no idea what it was
when it hit me.
1290
01:03:27,762 --> 01:03:30,129
The battle goes
on in Federal court
1291
01:03:30,129 --> 01:03:31,662
over CBS's documentary
1292
01:03:31,662 --> 01:03:33,995
on enemy troop strength
during the Vietnam War.
1293
01:03:35,295 --> 01:03:37,529
Mike: I had been asking
nasty questions
1294
01:03:37,529 --> 01:03:39,129
of all kinds of people
for some years
1295
01:03:39,129 --> 01:03:41,495
and now you are afraid
that they're gonna start
1296
01:03:41,495 --> 01:03:44,129
asking those questions of you.
1297
01:03:46,529 --> 01:03:48,729
Mike: And day, after day,
after day,
1298
01:03:48,729 --> 01:03:52,729
you were called
every dirty name imaginable.
1299
01:03:52,729 --> 01:03:54,662
You begin to wonder
if you haven't...
1300
01:03:54,662 --> 01:04:00,262
done something dishonest.
You don't want to eat.
1301
01:04:00,262 --> 01:04:02,529
You find it difficult to sleep.
1302
01:04:02,529 --> 01:04:04,862
It's never out
of your mind.
1303
01:04:04,862 --> 01:04:08,429
Anchor: The trial
has already produced
1304
01:04:08,429 --> 01:04:11,462
more than 6,000 pages
of testimony...
1305
01:04:11,462 --> 01:04:14,795
Mike: Went on
for years and years.
1306
01:04:14,795 --> 01:04:16,962
Morley Safer:
And you worked through it.
1307
01:04:16,962 --> 01:04:19,495
Mike: I had no idea
what I was doing.
1308
01:04:19,495 --> 01:04:21,029
I would ask a question.
1309
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:23,195
Couldn't hear
or understand the answer.
1310
01:04:23,195 --> 01:04:26,995
Didn't know what question
was supposed to come next.
1311
01:04:26,995 --> 01:04:29,095
Look, I was ashamed
of having a depression.
1312
01:04:29,095 --> 01:04:30,962
That's one of the things
that's so awful about it.
1313
01:04:30,962 --> 01:04:33,762
But there are some...
there is some blot.
1314
01:04:35,529 --> 01:04:37,595
‐ Morley Safer:
It was such a dirty word.
‐ Mike: That's correct.
1315
01:04:37,595 --> 01:04:42,562
That's correct.
You whispered.
1316
01:04:42,562 --> 01:04:47,762
All you focus on is yourself...
and how bad you feel.
1317
01:04:47,762 --> 01:04:50,429
You... You're wrapped up
in here...
1318
01:04:50,429 --> 01:04:55,695
in your own petty...
monumental selfishness...
1319
01:04:55,695 --> 01:04:57,062
self‐absorption.
1320
01:04:57,062 --> 01:04:58,662
‐
‐
1321
01:04:58,662 --> 01:05:02,062
Mike: Pains and spaciness...
1322
01:05:02,062 --> 01:05:05,229
and feelings of fraud
and feelings of...
1323
01:05:05,229 --> 01:05:08,462
that I was a fake and... and...
1324
01:05:08,462 --> 01:05:14,762
and self‐esteem
that just plummeted.
1325
01:05:14,762 --> 01:05:18,695
Did you ever contemplate
suicide, Mr. Pike?
1326
01:05:18,695 --> 01:05:24,095
I... I felt like a dead man.
And I wished I were dead.
1327
01:05:24,095 --> 01:05:29,162
Interviewer:
Oh, I hit bottom, yeah.
1328
01:05:29,162 --> 01:05:32,229
‐ Interviewer:
‐ Yes.
1329
01:05:32,229 --> 01:05:39,029
‐ Interviewer:
‐ No. Interviewer:
1330
01:05:39,029 --> 01:05:41,529
I know that, uh...
1331
01:05:41,529 --> 01:05:43,795
articles have been written
about that but...
1332
01:05:43,795 --> 01:05:49,062
And I... I really don't want
to particularly discuss it.
1333
01:05:49,062 --> 01:05:50,329
Mike: When you don't sleep,
1334
01:05:50,329 --> 01:05:52,762
hour after hour,
night after night,
1335
01:05:52,762 --> 01:05:58,562
day after day...
and you are obsessed...
1336
01:05:58,562 --> 01:06:01,495
with what a fourth‐rate
individual you are,
1337
01:06:01,495 --> 01:06:07,229
you contemplate anything
to get out of it.
1338
01:06:07,229 --> 01:06:09,162
But, thank God...
1339
01:06:09,162 --> 01:06:13,262
there was enough common sense
so that I didn't really...
1340
01:06:13,262 --> 01:06:17,662
try anything. Interviewer:
1341
01:06:17,662 --> 01:06:23,129
‐ Yeah.
‐ Interviewer:
1342
01:06:25,062 --> 01:06:26,929
Interviewer: Did you
think about killing yourself?
1343
01:06:26,929 --> 01:06:30,129
Mike: Of course.
Of course you do.
1344
01:06:30,129 --> 01:06:35,129
To get out of it?
Damn right.
1345
01:06:35,129 --> 01:06:37,495
That'll be a shock to people.
I mean, Mike Wallace,
1346
01:06:37,495 --> 01:06:40,762
the man on top of the world.
1347
01:06:40,762 --> 01:06:43,862
Morley Safer: All of the fame
and the glory
1348
01:06:43,862 --> 01:06:45,929
and the accolades
and everything,
1349
01:06:45,929 --> 01:06:49,495
really kind of didn't mean
anything to you anymore?
1350
01:06:49,495 --> 01:06:52,129
It was just dust
like everything else?
1351
01:06:52,129 --> 01:06:59,762
Mike,
1352
01:06:59,762 --> 01:07:03,295
did you try to commit suicide
at one point?
1353
01:07:03,295 --> 01:07:09,862
I thought very seriously
about it. I've never...
1354
01:07:09,862 --> 01:07:14,962
I promise you, anybody
who's in a deep depression...
1355
01:07:14,962 --> 01:07:22,629
thinks about suicide. Uh...
I've never said this before.
1356
01:07:22,629 --> 01:07:27,162
Yeah, I tried. And Mary found me.
1357
01:07:27,162 --> 01:07:34,562
I wrote a note...
1358
01:07:34,562 --> 01:07:38,462
and Mary found it.
1359
01:07:38,462 --> 01:07:43,229
She found the pills
that I was taking on the floor.
1360
01:07:43,229 --> 01:07:51,129
I was asleep. You got lucky.
Yes, I did get lucky.
1361
01:07:51,129 --> 01:07:53,529
I don't know why the hell
you asked me that question
1362
01:07:53,529 --> 01:07:55,595
cause other people have...
and I've...
1363
01:07:55,595 --> 01:08:01,262
It's the first time
I've answered it honestly. Cut.
1364
01:08:07,562 --> 01:08:14,529
Good evening,
this is the CBS Evening News,
1365
01:08:14,529 --> 01:08:16,029
Dan Rather reporting.
1366
01:08:16,029 --> 01:08:17,962
One of the New York
newspaper headlines reads,
1367
01:08:17,962 --> 01:08:21,629
"Westy Raises White Flag".
This after William Westmoreland
1368
01:08:21,629 --> 01:08:24,095
suddenly dropped his 120
million‐dollar libel suit
1369
01:08:24,095 --> 01:08:25,495
against CBS.
1370
01:08:25,495 --> 01:08:27,362
Westmoreland will get no money
from CBS.
1371
01:08:27,362 --> 01:08:29,429
The documentary
about which he complained
1372
01:08:29,429 --> 01:08:30,829
will remain intact,
1373
01:08:30,829 --> 01:08:32,895
without apology
and without any retraction.
1374
01:08:32,895 --> 01:08:35,195
Reporter: CBS agrees to sign
a statement saying,
1375
01:08:35,195 --> 01:08:37,962
"CBS respects General
Westmoreland's long
1376
01:08:37,962 --> 01:08:39,895
and faithful service
to his country."
1377
01:08:39,895 --> 01:08:42,795
Oh, I consider that I won.
1378
01:08:42,795 --> 01:08:44,395
By... by virtue
of that statement.
1379
01:08:44,395 --> 01:08:45,962
When a plaintiff wants
to drop a lawsuit
1380
01:08:45,962 --> 01:08:47,695
without any money
and without any apology,
1381
01:08:47,695 --> 01:08:50,262
‐ I think we ought to let him.
‐
1382
01:08:50,262 --> 01:08:52,395
The war between the General
and the network
1383
01:08:52,395 --> 01:08:54,729
officially ended today...
1384
01:08:54,729 --> 01:08:57,429
but there are serious questions
that remain.
1385
01:08:57,429 --> 01:08:59,895
I think the greatest risk
we have...
1386
01:08:59,895 --> 01:09:02,929
is that these suits
will intimidate
1387
01:09:02,929 --> 01:09:04,629
many news organizations,
1388
01:09:04,629 --> 01:09:09,029
because the cost
of doing aggressive journalism
1389
01:09:09,029 --> 01:09:10,862
is going to be exorbitant.
1390
01:09:10,862 --> 01:09:13,529
What it comes down to,
if you listen to the media,
1391
01:09:13,529 --> 01:09:16,695
is a question of how tough
journalism will be.
1392
01:09:16,695 --> 01:09:24,562
It's what journalists call
the "chilling effect".
1393
01:09:24,562 --> 01:09:27,162
Tell me what you think
of investigative journalism
1394
01:09:27,162 --> 01:09:30,562
these days. It's lousy, isn't it?
1395
01:09:30,562 --> 01:09:31,995
‐ No.
‐ Well, come on.
1396
01:09:31,995 --> 01:09:33,629
They go after the guy
who runs the pizza place
1397
01:09:33,629 --> 01:09:35,562
in the corner
because he charges too much
1398
01:09:35,562 --> 01:09:37,595
for pepperoni, but they won't go
after the Pentagon
1399
01:09:37,595 --> 01:09:40,195
because things
like the Westmoreland suit
1400
01:09:40,195 --> 01:09:44,995
has scared corporations
to death.
1401
01:09:44,995 --> 01:09:49,395
Last year, American's smoked
582 billion cigarettes.
1402
01:09:49,395 --> 01:09:50,962
The Surgeon General
of the United States
1403
01:09:50,962 --> 01:09:52,562
says that cigarettes
cause lung cancer.
1404
01:09:52,562 --> 01:09:54,695
More deaths,
than the combined total
1405
01:09:54,695 --> 01:09:56,995
of Americans killed each year
by auto, fire,
1406
01:09:56,995 --> 01:10:00,362
and other accidents,
by alcohol, murder, and suicide,
1407
01:10:00,362 --> 01:10:02,262
by AIDS, cocaine, and heroin.
1408
01:10:02,262 --> 01:10:04,695
Do you consider tobacco
a health hazard?
1409
01:10:04,695 --> 01:10:07,129
No, I think
that when the secret
1410
01:10:07,129 --> 01:10:08,695
to cancer is finally discovered,
1411
01:10:08,695 --> 01:10:14,295
that we're gonna find,
that it's brought on by a virus.
1412
01:10:14,295 --> 01:10:15,829
Interviewer: Are we ready?
1413
01:10:15,829 --> 01:10:18,462
You have chronicled the demise
of the cigarette.
1414
01:10:18,462 --> 01:10:20,395
And unfortunately,
one of the biggest scandals
1415
01:10:20,395 --> 01:10:21,629
to hit 60 Minutes,
1416
01:10:21,629 --> 01:10:28,762
was the case
of Jeffrey Wigand.
1417
01:10:28,762 --> 01:10:32,662
Mike: We have been trying
for years, to talk to the CEO
1418
01:10:32,662 --> 01:10:34,495
of the tobacco companies.
1419
01:10:34,495 --> 01:10:36,895
And all of a sudden,
we heard that we were set
1420
01:10:36,895 --> 01:10:39,329
to learn what this insider
had to offer.
1421
01:10:39,329 --> 01:10:41,129
The head of research
and development
1422
01:10:41,129 --> 01:10:46,429
for a major tobacco company
who wants to lay it on the line.
1423
01:10:46,429 --> 01:10:48,262
Dr. Wigand...
1424
01:10:48,262 --> 01:10:52,229
you're the first tobacco
executive
1425
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:54,129
as far as I know
to come forward.
1426
01:10:54,129 --> 01:10:56,462
The element in cigarettes,
that make them attractive,
1427
01:10:56,462 --> 01:10:58,662
‐ is the nicotine, right?
‐ Most certainly.
1428
01:10:58,662 --> 01:11:00,395
And that's what cigarettes
are for?
1429
01:11:00,395 --> 01:11:02,229
It's a delivery device
for nicotine.
1430
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:04,062
Put it in your mouth,
light it up,
1431
01:11:04,062 --> 01:11:06,762
‐ and you're gonna get your fix.
‐ You get your fix.
1432
01:11:06,762 --> 01:11:09,829
Are you worried
about going public this way?
1433
01:11:09,829 --> 01:11:10,895
Somewhat.
1434
01:11:10,895 --> 01:11:13,562
‐ I had life threats on my kids.
‐ What?
1435
01:11:13,562 --> 01:11:16,295
It says, "Leave tobacco alone
or else...
1436
01:11:16,295 --> 01:11:20,595
you'll find your kids hurt.
They're pretty girls now."
1437
01:11:20,595 --> 01:11:26,229
Then why are you doing it?
Because I believe it's right.
1438
01:11:26,229 --> 01:11:31,595
Okay, we got it?
1439
01:11:31,595 --> 01:11:32,995
Jeffrey Wigand: I just want
to make sure that
1440
01:11:32,995 --> 01:11:34,595
until I get a lot of things
in order...
1441
01:11:34,595 --> 01:11:36,062
Oh, don't worry about that.
1442
01:11:36,062 --> 01:11:37,662
We're not going to go
forward with any kind
1443
01:11:37,662 --> 01:11:40,704
‐ of broadcasting on this?
‐ Absolutely.
1444
01:11:40,704 --> 01:11:44,404
Mike: We had the story cold.
We know that it's true.
1445
01:11:44,404 --> 01:11:47,604
And all of a sudden,
we were told by our lawyers
1446
01:11:47,604 --> 01:11:50,504
that we had induced
the breaking
1447
01:11:50,504 --> 01:11:52,137
of a confidentiality agreement
1448
01:11:52,137 --> 01:11:54,171
between Jeff Wigand
and the Brown
1449
01:11:54,171 --> 01:11:56,104
and Williamson Tobacco Company.
1450
01:11:56,104 --> 01:11:58,071
Don Hewitt: We've got a gun
pointed at our head,
1451
01:11:58,071 --> 01:12:00,171
of 15 billion dollars.
1452
01:12:00,171 --> 01:12:04,971
We may opt to get out
of the line of fire.
1453
01:12:04,971 --> 01:12:07,704
Mike: Put it on the air.
Let them sue.
1454
01:12:07,704 --> 01:12:10,204
I cannot believe that any court
1455
01:12:10,204 --> 01:12:13,604
would have come down
against us.
1456
01:12:13,604 --> 01:12:15,271
In your office or Phil's?
1457
01:12:15,271 --> 01:12:16,937
Interviewer: I'm sure
that this was your argument
1458
01:12:16,937 --> 01:12:18,471
to CBS, to Don.
1459
01:12:18,471 --> 01:12:20,404
They did not want to hear
that argument.
1460
01:12:20,404 --> 01:12:23,804
The management didn't want
to hear that argument.
1461
01:12:23,804 --> 01:12:26,171
‐
‐ Interviewer: Even between you
and Don?
1462
01:12:26,171 --> 01:12:29,204
Mike: Don didn't want
to hear it.
1463
01:12:29,204 --> 01:12:30,904
Yes, we did! You agreed!
1464
01:12:30,904 --> 01:12:33,137
No, I just disagree
with you totally.
1465
01:12:33,137 --> 01:12:36,237
Mike: He was on
the company's side
and I and a couple of others...
1466
01:12:36,237 --> 01:12:41,904
were not.
The sense is that you lost
1467
01:12:41,904 --> 01:12:44,504
your dedication
to getting the truth out.
1468
01:12:44,504 --> 01:12:47,204
That happened at one point
for a period
1469
01:12:47,204 --> 01:12:52,971
of about 12 to 15 hours.
And that was all of it.
1470
01:12:52,971 --> 01:12:57,037
We at 60 Minutes are proud
of working here and at CBS News,
1471
01:12:57,037 --> 01:12:59,871
and so we were dismayed
that the management at CBS
1472
01:12:59,871 --> 01:13:02,971
had seen fit to give in
to perceived threats
1473
01:13:02,971 --> 01:13:06,304
of legal action against us
by a tobacco industry giant.
1474
01:13:06,304 --> 01:13:08,904
Woman: I can't believe that
there wasn't something else
1475
01:13:08,904 --> 01:13:12,071
that you could have done.
Is there not? No, no.
1476
01:13:12,071 --> 01:13:14,437
Mike went as far as you...
Mike went further than I did.
1477
01:13:14,437 --> 01:13:17,071
‐ Mike raised hell about it.
‐ 60 Minutes has been to court
1478
01:13:17,071 --> 01:13:20,537
or has been sued,
not infrequently over the years
1479
01:13:20,537 --> 01:13:21,904
and we've never lost one.
1480
01:13:21,904 --> 01:13:23,904
Because we've been willing
to go to court.
1481
01:13:23,904 --> 01:13:26,937
This is the first time
that they said no.
1482
01:13:26,937 --> 01:13:29,637
Today, it was revealed
that CBS's 60 Minutes
1483
01:13:29,637 --> 01:13:31,904
had decided to back off
a tough investigative report
1484
01:13:31,904 --> 01:13:33,537
on the powerful
tobacco industry.
1485
01:13:33,537 --> 01:13:34,904
...raising new questions
tonight about
1486
01:13:34,904 --> 01:13:37,337
corporate power
and what's acceptable
1487
01:13:37,337 --> 01:13:40,537
in journalism, what's not.
This is part of what's so sad
1488
01:13:40,537 --> 01:13:42,804
because Mike Wallace
and Don Hewitt
1489
01:13:42,804 --> 01:13:45,704
are pioneers
of aggressive investigative
1490
01:13:45,704 --> 01:13:47,071
television journalism
1491
01:13:47,071 --> 01:13:50,571
and the fact
that they are intimidated
1492
01:13:50,571 --> 01:13:53,504
is very disturbing.
1493
01:13:53,504 --> 01:13:56,437
Woman: Why don't you stand up
and say "I'm Mike Wallace.
1494
01:13:56,437 --> 01:13:58,004
I've got a reputation.
1495
01:13:58,004 --> 01:14:01,337
Either this piece goes on air
or I'm walking?"
1496
01:14:01,337 --> 01:14:03,904
Mike: If I'm outside, that piec
would never...
1497
01:14:03,904 --> 01:14:07,604
Would never gotten
on the air, period.
1498
01:14:07,604 --> 01:14:09,704
CBS Management
wouldn't let us broadcast
1499
01:14:09,704 --> 01:14:11,637
our original story,
and our interview
1500
01:14:11,637 --> 01:14:16,271
with Jeffrey Wigand.
But now, things have changed.
1501
01:14:16,271 --> 01:14:18,704
Last week, the Wall Street
Journal got hold of,
1502
01:14:18,704 --> 01:14:22,337
and published a confidential
deposition Wigand gave
1503
01:14:22,337 --> 01:14:24,171
in a Mississippi case.
1504
01:14:24,171 --> 01:14:26,537
And while a lawsuit
is still a possibility,
1505
01:14:26,537 --> 01:14:29,771
not putting Jeffrey Wigand's
story on 60 Minutes,
1506
01:14:29,771 --> 01:14:32,237
no longer is.
1507
01:14:32,237 --> 01:14:35,637
The hope would be
that no matter who owns
1508
01:14:35,637 --> 01:14:39,771
the network
or who owns the paper...
1509
01:14:39,771 --> 01:14:44,404
they'll have the courage
and the sense of obligation
1510
01:14:44,404 --> 01:14:46,071
to let the truth be told.
1511
01:14:46,071 --> 01:14:53,271
You very carefully said
the hope, the confidence?
1512
01:14:53,271 --> 01:14:58,904
The hope.
People ask why I didn't quit.
1513
01:14:58,904 --> 01:15:02,171
I really do believe
that I would've walked away...
1514
01:15:02,171 --> 01:15:05,104
and they would have said,
"Well, it's a pity.
1515
01:15:05,104 --> 01:15:08,037
Well, he was getting old,
anyway."
1516
01:15:08,037 --> 01:15:11,571
They would've said,
"Fine. So long."
1517
01:15:11,571 --> 01:15:16,337
Crew member: Take ten.
Sound goes by.
1518
01:15:16,337 --> 01:15:19,237
‐ It was my first...
‐ I'll ask the question please.
1519
01:15:19,237 --> 01:15:20,904
I beg your pardon.
1520
01:15:20,904 --> 01:15:24,137
Tell me this. You really said,
"It has been my experience
1521
01:15:24,137 --> 01:15:26,804
that one cannot
in any shape or form
1522
01:15:26,804 --> 01:15:29,937
depend on human relations
for any lasting reward.
1523
01:15:29,937 --> 01:15:33,404
It is only work
that truly satisfies?"
1524
01:15:33,404 --> 01:15:36,037
Yes, that stands by you.
1525
01:15:36,037 --> 01:15:38,504
It isn't that many people
don't...
1526
01:15:38,504 --> 01:15:41,171
um, add a great deal
to your life...
1527
01:15:41,171 --> 01:15:45,404
and I'm talking
about as a permanent thing.
1528
01:15:45,404 --> 01:15:48,871
That's the least disappointing
relationship you can have.
1529
01:15:48,871 --> 01:15:51,337
‐ Is work?
‐ Mm‐hmm.
1530
01:15:51,337 --> 01:15:54,471
And really, that's the way
you've lived your life.
1531
01:15:54,471 --> 01:15:58,771
Unfortunately, yes.
1532
01:15:58,771 --> 01:16:01,371
Contract is running down.
Everybody wants to know
1533
01:16:01,371 --> 01:16:03,037
‐ if you're going to retire.
‐ Contract is not running down.
1534
01:16:03,037 --> 01:16:04,771
Contract will be up
a year from now.
1535
01:16:04,771 --> 01:16:06,337
Well, that's running down
in my book.
1536
01:16:06,337 --> 01:16:08,304
Are you going to quit
or are you going to keep going?
1537
01:16:08,304 --> 01:16:10,304
Larry King: Mike Wallace,
the stories keep appearing
1538
01:16:10,304 --> 01:16:11,804
that you're cutting back.
1539
01:16:11,804 --> 01:16:14,071
How much so and how much longer
with the program?
1540
01:16:14,071 --> 01:16:16,237
I don't think it's any
of your business, Larry.
1541
01:16:16,237 --> 01:16:17,604
‐ The, uh...
‐
1542
01:16:17,604 --> 01:16:19,704
Mike could slow down.
Mike could stop.
1543
01:16:19,704 --> 01:16:22,004
Mike can do anything
he wants to do,
1544
01:16:22,004 --> 01:16:25,937
and yet he continues to work
just as hard. Why?
1545
01:16:25,937 --> 01:16:29,837
Why still the same need,
and push, and drive?
1546
01:16:29,837 --> 01:16:34,637
Why... What does he think
he hasn't accomplished?
1547
01:16:34,637 --> 01:16:37,304
Interviewer: Tell me
your dreams, Mike.
1548
01:16:37,304 --> 01:16:39,337
If I were your psychiatrist,
and I said,
1549
01:16:39,337 --> 01:16:40,771
"Did you dream last night?
1550
01:16:40,771 --> 01:16:45,671
Or what's the last dream
you remember?" Where am I?
1551
01:16:45,671 --> 01:16:52,937
Where am I? Mike? Mike Wallace?
What are you doing here?
1552
01:16:52,937 --> 01:16:56,071
Why, I'm interviewing you.
We're on television.
1553
01:16:56,071 --> 01:16:58,537
I'm giving you a chance
to defend yourself
1554
01:16:58,537 --> 01:17:01,837
before all my viewers.
1555
01:17:01,837 --> 01:17:03,971
‐ Defend myself?
‐
1556
01:17:03,971 --> 01:17:09,037
‐ I mean, what... what did I do?
‐ What are you trying to prove?
1557
01:17:09,037 --> 01:17:11,537
Prove? Nothing!
1558
01:17:11,537 --> 01:17:17,804
‐
‐ Then why don't you quit?
1559
01:17:17,804 --> 01:17:19,604
Mike: Father Kirsch...
1560
01:17:19,604 --> 01:17:22,237
I want to read you
what Susan Sandoval
1561
01:17:22,237 --> 01:17:23,637
says about you.
1562
01:17:23,637 --> 01:17:25,871
She was 15 years old
when she woke up
1563
01:17:25,871 --> 01:17:30,137
with Father Robert
Kirsch's tongue in her mouth...
1564
01:17:30,137 --> 01:17:32,937
‐ You guys are bastards.
‐ ...in a small New Mexico town,
1565
01:17:32,937 --> 01:17:34,871
she lost her virginity that day.
1566
01:17:34,871 --> 01:17:37,504
Now, why would she say that
about you, Father Kirsch,
1567
01:17:37,504 --> 01:17:45,304
if it were not so?
Why would she say that?
1568
01:17:45,304 --> 01:17:48,937
Interviewer:
1569
01:17:48,937 --> 01:17:51,837
Do I worry about death?
I'm getting closer.
1570
01:17:51,837 --> 01:17:54,171
I think about it
every now and then, I confess.
1571
01:17:54,171 --> 01:17:56,171
Look, when you're 75
and you see people
1572
01:17:56,171 --> 01:17:59,504
around you dropping, sure.
1573
01:17:59,504 --> 01:18:01,837
How much
in the retirement packages
1574
01:18:01,837 --> 01:18:04,171
of the people who have voted
okay on this,
1575
01:18:04,171 --> 01:18:07,671
‐ how much are they getting?
‐ Civilian: Answer the question.
1576
01:18:07,671 --> 01:18:10,671
Mike: It's a very
simple question, Mr. Silverman.
1577
01:18:10,671 --> 01:18:12,837
Why are you so reluctant...
1578
01:18:12,837 --> 01:18:14,504
‐ Why are you so reluctant...
‐ Aide: Excuse me. You gotta
get over here, Mike.
1579
01:18:14,504 --> 01:18:17,937
Go on, just get right over here.
1580
01:18:17,937 --> 01:18:22,971
You're kind of the last man
standing in this line of work
1581
01:18:22,971 --> 01:18:25,404
‐ of your generation.
‐
1582
01:18:25,404 --> 01:18:28,004
Morley: You have some
tough questions left?
1583
01:18:28,004 --> 01:18:29,337
Mike: Sure.
1584
01:18:29,337 --> 01:18:32,371
‐ Morley: Haven't run out?
‐
1585
01:18:32,371 --> 01:18:39,704
You're in good shape, yes.
1586
01:18:39,704 --> 01:18:44,704
‐ That's remarkable.
‐ You, too.
1587
01:18:44,704 --> 01:18:49,804
‐ You too, yeah, really.
‐ Well, for... 87.
1588
01:18:49,804 --> 01:18:52,037
Could somebody please tell me
what's going on with the...
1589
01:18:52,037 --> 01:18:54,271
Crew member: It's not working.
They're doing a test for you.
1590
01:18:54,271 --> 01:18:56,504
‐ What's that?
‐ Crew member: They're doing
a sound test before we...
1591
01:18:56,504 --> 01:19:02,437
I can barely hear.
I'm deaf. I can't see very well.
1592
01:19:02,437 --> 01:19:05,204
‐ Oh!
‐ There we go.
1593
01:19:05,204 --> 01:19:10,171
Corruption is every place
in Russia.
1594
01:19:10,171 --> 01:19:16,104
To get anything done... money.
Is Russia a democracy?
1595
01:19:17,537 --> 01:19:23,237
In order to be a journalist
today in Russia...
1596
01:19:23,237 --> 01:19:26,504
do you have to, in effect...
1597
01:19:26,504 --> 01:19:30,204
bow the head
and bend the knee to Putin?
1598
01:19:42,604 --> 01:19:45,871
Your people run
these news channels.
1599
01:19:45,871 --> 01:19:49,804
One channel even begins
each newscast with,
1600
01:19:49,804 --> 01:19:54,104
"What did Putin do today?
Who did he see?
1601
01:19:54,104 --> 01:19:56,471
What does..."
and so forth and so forth.
1602
01:19:59,904 --> 01:20:07,537
Where?
1603
01:20:07,537 --> 01:20:11,537
Your English is really very,
very good, isn't it?
1604
01:20:11,537 --> 01:20:14,837
You understand every word
that I'm saying.
1605
01:20:14,837 --> 01:20:17,271
You don't need the translation.
1606
01:20:17,271 --> 01:20:21,271
What would you like to say
to the American people?
1607
01:20:21,271 --> 01:20:25,604
All the best to every family
in America.
1608
01:20:25,604 --> 01:20:31,804
Good luck.
1609
01:20:37,237 --> 01:20:43,437
Do you feel it's time to...
maybe pack it in and reflect?
1610
01:20:43,437 --> 01:20:45,804
‐ Or is...
‐ Reflect about what?
1611
01:20:45,804 --> 01:20:47,437
‐ All of...
‐ Gimme a break.
1612
01:20:47,437 --> 01:20:49,537
What am I gonna reflect about?
1613
01:20:49,537 --> 01:20:54,004
About the fact
that I'm not workin'?
1614
01:20:54,004 --> 01:20:58,837
‐ Do you hate getting old?
‐ No, I feel good.
1615
01:20:58,837 --> 01:21:01,971
I feel fine.
I don't hate getting old.
1616
01:21:01,971 --> 01:21:03,837
‐ You still work...
‐ I don't even hate to die.
1617
01:21:03,837 --> 01:21:08,504
‐ I don't give a damn.
‐ What do you mean? I don't care.
1618
01:21:08,504 --> 01:21:12,204
You mean when your toes turn up.
That's it.
1619
01:21:12,204 --> 01:21:15,604
That don't ever bother me.
1620
01:21:15,604 --> 01:21:17,437
And I want you to give
if you will the answer
1621
01:21:17,437 --> 01:21:20,204
‐ to just one more question.
‐ Frank Lloyd Wright: Go ahead.
1622
01:21:20,204 --> 01:21:23,071
Do you believe
in your personal immortality?
1623
01:21:23,071 --> 01:21:27,104
Yes. To me,
young has no meaning.
1624
01:21:27,104 --> 01:21:31,437
It's something you can do
nothing about, nothing at all.
1625
01:21:31,437 --> 01:21:33,104
But youth is a quality.
1626
01:21:33,104 --> 01:21:36,137
And if you have it,
you never lose it.
1627
01:21:36,137 --> 01:21:38,037
And when they put you
into the box,
1628
01:21:38,037 --> 01:21:43,437
that's your immortality.
If I die tomorrow...
1629
01:21:43,437 --> 01:21:46,904
I've accomplished far more
than I ever thought
I was going to accomplish.
1630
01:21:46,904 --> 01:21:49,104
And far more than anyone else
ever thought
1631
01:21:49,104 --> 01:21:53,504
I was going to accomplish.
So, I'm proud of myself...
1632
01:21:53,504 --> 01:21:55,071
for hanging in there,
1633
01:21:55,071 --> 01:21:59,937
persevering, working
unbelievably hard and winning.
1634
01:21:59,937 --> 01:22:05,588
Winning the game
of broadcast journalism.
1635
01:22:05,588 --> 01:22:07,354
I've won it.
1636
01:22:07,354 --> 01:22:10,554
Anchor: Do you understand
why some people feel...
1637
01:22:10,554 --> 01:22:13,788
such disaffection
from the mainstream media?
1638
01:22:13,788 --> 01:22:18,754
Oh, yeah, no.
They think we're wild‐eyed...
1639
01:22:18,754 --> 01:22:24,154
commies, liberals. Yes?
That's what they think.
1640
01:22:24,154 --> 01:22:26,154
We're in a fairly cynical,
1641
01:22:26,154 --> 01:22:28,754
almost hostile
public environment.
1642
01:22:28,754 --> 01:22:32,788
Nobody believes anything
anymore, to generalize.
1643
01:22:32,788 --> 01:22:35,088
And it's very important
that they believe us.
1644
01:22:35,088 --> 01:22:37,321
And if they don't believe us,
we're useless.
1645
01:22:37,321 --> 01:22:40,288
Is this nation getting better
or getting worse?
1646
01:22:40,288 --> 01:22:46,321
Oh, I think this nation
is getting worse.
1647
01:22:46,321 --> 01:22:51,788
We're not as straightforward...
a people, as we used to be.
1648
01:22:51,788 --> 01:22:54,654
Interviewer: Do you think
the public is less interested
1649
01:22:54,654 --> 01:22:58,588
in news than it used to be?
Less trusting what they hear?
1650
01:22:58,588 --> 01:23:00,754
Mike: I think they're probably
less trusting you know,
1651
01:23:00,754 --> 01:23:02,988
because there are
so many voices...
1652
01:23:02,988 --> 01:23:06,254
‐ That is not fair.
‐ Mike: So many voices,
so many...
1653
01:23:06,254 --> 01:23:08,454
who do you trust?
1654
01:23:08,454 --> 01:23:10,488
Anchor: Whether it's too much
or made up,
1655
01:23:10,488 --> 01:23:12,254
all of this strikes
at the heart
1656
01:23:12,254 --> 01:23:13,988
of the most important
product journalists
1657
01:23:13,988 --> 01:23:16,354
have to offer:
their credibility.
1658
01:23:16,354 --> 01:23:18,488
Anchor: Our job
is to ask those questions
1659
01:23:18,488 --> 01:23:20,554
and you know something,
this is not new.
1660
01:23:20,554 --> 01:23:22,321
This is the relationship
we have
1661
01:23:22,321 --> 01:23:23,888
with all levels of power.
1662
01:23:23,888 --> 01:23:27,821
A narrow and distorted picture
of America often emerges
1663
01:23:27,821 --> 01:23:29,721
from the televised news.
1664
01:23:29,721 --> 01:23:33,388
The views do not represent
the views of America.
1665
01:23:33,388 --> 01:23:35,788
Everybody back there.
The fake news media,
1666
01:23:35,788 --> 01:23:38,621
‐ look at all of them.
‐
1667
01:23:38,621 --> 01:23:40,921
The government
at its highest levels
1668
01:23:40,921 --> 01:23:42,421
with its powers over us,
1669
01:23:42,421 --> 01:23:45,121
criticizes us so strongly,
so emotionally
1670
01:23:45,121 --> 01:23:48,588
and with such
self‐serving purposes.
1671
01:23:48,588 --> 01:23:50,454
The temptation
is for television news
1672
01:23:50,454 --> 01:23:52,488
to go easy,
to duck controversies,
1673
01:23:52,488 --> 01:23:56,088
stay out of trouble,
please the government.
1674
01:23:56,088 --> 01:23:59,454
But that would be fatal.
Or as Walter said,
1675
01:23:59,454 --> 01:24:01,854
"We're not defending
a precious right of our own,
1676
01:24:01,854 --> 01:24:03,688
of freedom of speech and press.
1677
01:24:03,688 --> 01:24:06,521
What we're defending
is the people's right to know.
1678
01:24:12,988 --> 01:24:18,121
‐
‐
1679
01:24:18,121 --> 01:24:23,454
Mike: You ever think
about an epitaph? Epitaph?
1680
01:24:23,454 --> 01:24:26,021
Never gave it
a moment's thought.
1681
01:24:26,021 --> 01:24:32,821
Mike: Give it a moment.
1682
01:24:32,821 --> 01:24:37,388
I've had a fine, various,
not so fine life.
1683
01:24:37,388 --> 01:24:42,254
And there comes a time
when you say, "What's left?"
1684
01:24:42,254 --> 01:24:49,754
It's time to go.
Interviewer:
1685
01:24:49,754 --> 01:24:56,688
Uh... The fellow who...
The fellow who did...
1686
01:24:56,688 --> 01:24:59,254
The fellow who investigated,
who muckraked,
1687
01:24:59,254 --> 01:25:05,021
who asked some tough questions
and who... Uh, bullshit.
1688
01:25:05,021 --> 01:25:09,254
Come on. I don't know.
Interviewer:
1689
01:25:09,254 --> 01:25:10,788
Well, fine,
but I don't have to answer them.
1690
01:25:10,788 --> 01:25:12,721
‐ I think it's a lousy question.
‐ Well, you're a legend!
1691
01:25:12,721 --> 01:25:19,821
I think it's a lousy question.
Interviewer:
1692
01:25:19,821 --> 01:25:22,454
Yeah. Tough, but fair.
1693
01:25:23,454 --> 01:25:26,854
The guy who enjoyed immensely
what he did.
1694
01:25:26,854 --> 01:25:29,521
Did it honestly,
straightforwardly,
1695
01:25:29,521 --> 01:25:32,154
perhaps, moved the dialogue
ahead...
1696
01:25:32,154 --> 01:25:37,421
that much in certain areas.
Used his life sensibly.
1697
01:25:37,421 --> 01:25:44,088
Basically, a decent guy.
1698
01:25:44,088 --> 01:25:48,254
That's... that would be fine.
1699
01:25:48,254 --> 01:25:50,788
‐ Arthur: Epitaph.
‐
1700
01:25:50,788 --> 01:25:53,288
I'll leave the first thought
that occurs to me is,
1701
01:25:53,288 --> 01:25:57,421
he worked awful hard.
Mike: And you're still working.
1702
01:25:57,421 --> 01:26:00,021
Arthur: Oh, yeah.
Life without work to me
1703
01:26:00,021 --> 01:26:02,588
would be incredible,
unbelievable.
1704
01:26:02,588 --> 01:26:08,388
I couldn't imagine it.
Like breathing.
1705
01:26:08,388 --> 01:26:15,754
And what did he work for?
Oh, some little...
1706
01:26:15,754 --> 01:26:17,088
moment of truth.
1707
01:26:30,054 --> 01:26:31,521
Mike: All right.
If that's it, then.
1708
01:26:31,521 --> 01:26:35,888
Crew member: Oh, yeah.
He can hear us. Ready?
1709
01:26:43,488 --> 01:26:45,888
Mike: Are we goin'? Cut a sec.
1710
01:26:51,988 --> 01:26:56,754
All right, one last run,
and that is it.
1711
01:26:56,754 --> 01:27:00,154
If I put this on the air,
I'm gonna look like a damn fool.
1712
01:27:00,154 --> 01:27:03,988
You deserve to look
like a damn fool at least once.
1713
01:27:13,554 --> 01:27:15,388
‐ Johnny Carson: What do you
make a week?
‐ I'd be ashamed
1714
01:27:15,388 --> 01:27:16,954
‐ to tell you.
‐
1715
01:27:16,954 --> 01:27:18,621
You better learn
to sing and dance.
1716
01:27:18,621 --> 01:27:20,688
Yeah.
1717
01:27:20,688 --> 01:27:22,521
Man: You got it, perfect.
All right, good.
1718
01:27:22,521 --> 01:27:30,488
Man: Seven rolling, take one.
1719
01:27:39,488 --> 01:27:41,654
Oh, yeah. You're smiling,
why are you smiling?
1720
01:27:41,654 --> 01:27:45,388
I feel something is coming up
that I'm going to get angry.
1721
01:27:54,921 --> 01:27:56,154
Man: Seven rolling, take one.
1722
01:28:04,888 --> 01:28:07,354
Man: Roll 12 A, sound, take 11.
1723
01:28:22,154 --> 01:28:25,288
When I see people saying
purposely negative things,
1724
01:28:25,288 --> 01:28:27,988
they have problems, not me,
they have problems.
1725
01:28:27,988 --> 01:28:29,388
Man: We just ran out of film.
1726
01:29:00,188 --> 01:29:01,988
‐ You go from 40...
‐
1727
01:29:01,988 --> 01:29:04,388
‐ Oh, we forgot to turn off
the phone.
‐ It's all right. Yes.
1728
01:29:05,488 --> 01:29:07,654
‐ You know something?
‐ Barbara: Mm‐hmm?
1729
01:29:07,654 --> 01:29:11,588
I like you a lot better than
I remembered feeling about you.
1730
01:29:11,588 --> 01:29:14,454
I hate you with a venomous
passion right now.
1731
01:29:14,454 --> 01:29:16,354
‐ That's a good place to stop.
‐
140674
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