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Rview, take one.
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Soft sticks. Mark.
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So, what brings you here today?
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(smerling laughs)
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all right, I want to start
with your story
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inside the story,
like you do in the book.
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Um...
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Christmas 1991--
could we start there?
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Can you remember that day?
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I do remember the day.
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♪ ♪
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morris: Early that morning,
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I suggested to my wife we should just go up
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and look at the jeffreymacdonald crime scene together.
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Um...
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What better way
to spend christmas?
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♪ ♪
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I get interested in stuff
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because I get bothered by stuff.
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And what's really interestingabout the macdonald murder case
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is how many, many,
22
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many people
have gone back over this.
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It's a case that resists definitive explanations.
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♪ ♪
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wandering in that wilderness of conflicting evidence
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and interpretations,
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of mistakes, of errors...
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Certainly in this case,
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the mystery is about what happened
30
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in that house.
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I went into it with the hope that I could crack it...
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...That I could come to some kind of conclusion.
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But you don't know
34
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whether truth is going to be
difficult to find
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unless you try to find it.
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The wife and two young daughters of an army doctor
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were found dead in their home in fort bragg, north carolina.
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Mike wallace: You may remember the crime, back in 1970...
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One of america's most sensational murder cases...
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...One of the most bizarre murder cases...
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The most complicated murder case in history.
42
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Macdonald says the murderers were three men and a woman,
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shouting, "acid is great! Kill all the pigs!"
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it's a baffling story, the more you begin to look into it...
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Newswoman:Jeffrey macdonald's life became
46
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the subject of a book, a popular miniseries...
47
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...A television movie called fatal vision.
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Newsman: The bestseller portrayed macdonald
49
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as a cold-blooded killer.
50
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Newsman 2: Today macdonald was sentenced
51
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to three life terms in prison.
52
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(echoing thud)
53
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man 2: Something really, really bad happened here.
54
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-It was a miscarriage of justice. -Macdonald: Well...
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I cannot overcome fatal vision.
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Morris: What happens when a narrative
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takes the place of reality?
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It's almost as if nothing really happened in history
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unless it has been recorded in a movie.
60
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Or in a television series.
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Newswoman 2: A new book by acclaimed author and filmmaker
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errol morris says that the case may be more complicated
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-than previously thought. -Macdonald: I did not...
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Hurt my wife and my children.
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Woman: That evening I was wearing a blonde wig
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-and floppy hat. -Man 3: An innocent man
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-is in jail today. -Woman 2: The man is guilty
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-as can be. -I am innocent.
69
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He's lucky I haven't gone out and killed him.
70
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Macdonald (echoes): I am not that monster.
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(phone dialing)
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(line ringing)
73
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(phone ringing)
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morris: How old were you when this happened?
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Mica: That was 1970-- I would have been 23.
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I was an mp at fort bragg,
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1968 to 1971.
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And I was one of the first mps
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in the house at 544 castle drive
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the night
of the macdonald murders.
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Mica: February 17, 1970,
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was, uh, quiet.
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It was drizzly, rainy, cold.
84
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(distorted police radio transmission)
85
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-(siren wailing)
-about 3:40 in the morning,
86
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we got a radio call for a disturbance.
87
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When we get to the call,
88
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couple cars are already there.
89
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I run into richard tevere.
90
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We're standing on the steps in front of the entrance
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to castle drive, and I believed
92
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that there was a disturbance
and possibly a stabbing.
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-(siren approaching in distance)
-we couldn't...
94
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Gain entry to the house,
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so I took my flashlight and I went around the back.
96
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The rear door was ajar.
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I pulled out my weapon,
98
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and I put a round in the chamber...
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Not knowing if there was somebody still in the house.
100
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I took one step in to the...
101
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What was, I guess, the bedroom.
102
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There was blood on the wall, blood on the ceiling,
103
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blood all over the place.
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That's when I saw her, a woman lying on the ground,
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covered with blood,
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and, uh, a male lying next to her,
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who I didn't know at the time was jeffrey macdonald.
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At first I thought
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it was a homicide-suicide.
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Uh, but then he started to move.
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I got down next to him
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and started giving him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.
113
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He wakes up, and he's saying, "check my kids, check my kids.
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I heard my kids."
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tevere: From the master bedroom,
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we just took a few steps,
117
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looked into the first, smaller bedroom,
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and I could see the girl.
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She was lifeless.
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And then I went into the second bedroom,
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and I saw, again,
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a very young girl, lifeless.
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There was blood dripping down
the side of the bed,
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and there was a puddle of blood
on the floor.
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I, uh...
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Never in a million years expected to...
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Walk in on something like that.
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So it was a lot to, really,
129
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process at the time.
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Ivory: Within five minutes,
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we were at the house.
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There was an army ambulance
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and a number of mp cars
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already there.
135
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In the house, it looked like the living room
136
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had been caught up in some sort of struggle.
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There was a man on a gurney being wheeled out.
138
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He was unconscious.
139
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There was a female on the floor of the master bedroom.
140
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There was a blue pajama top laying across her chest.
141
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That was strange.
142
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And then, I noticed, in the headboard
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in the master bed,
144
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there was a bloody imprint of the word "pig."
145
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hodges: It's the worst thing,
146
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in my 53 years
in law enforcement,
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that I've ever walked into.
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Uh, it was a gruesome scene
to see a, uh,
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a mother and two daughters
mutilated like they were.
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And, uh, it's, uh...
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It's a s-- it's a scene
that you ain't gonna forget.
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Colette macdonald was stabbed
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multiple times
in the neck and chest.
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Both arms were broken.
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And she was pregnant.
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The older girl had been stabbed.
157
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And had a blunt instrument wound
to her head.
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And the younger girl had been stabbed numerous times.
159
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Ivory: My partner did a 360
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around the house.
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He went out and he came back
in and he said,
162
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"I think I found
the murder weapons."
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there was a club, a knife
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and an ice pick.
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(siren wailing in distance)
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hodges: At that point, I went to the hospital
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to try to interview macdonald.
168
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When I got there, I was briefed by a doctor.
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Gemma: There were some scrapes
170
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on his abdomen and on his chest,
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some small puncture wounds
which didn't seem
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to be very serious at all.
173
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It's not life-threatening.
174
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He was...
175
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,093
In no real acute distress.
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Hodges: When I went in, we identified who we were,
177
00:11:07,768 --> 00:11:12,170
and said, "what can you tell us about what happened?"
178
00:11:18,812 --> 00:11:23,548
he said that he and colettehad been listening to a record.
179
00:11:23,650 --> 00:11:28,053
He dozed off on the couch, and she had went to bed.
180
00:11:30,557 --> 00:11:32,757
He heard colette hollering,
181
00:11:32,859 --> 00:11:34,959
"jeff, jeff,why are they doing this to me?"
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he woke up.
183
00:11:41,068 --> 00:11:46,638
Hippies had broke into the house
and attacked him and his family.
184
00:11:47,841 --> 00:11:50,408
He'd seen two white males,
185
00:11:50,510 --> 00:11:52,711
black guy in an army jacket,
186
00:11:52,813 --> 00:11:56,281
and a woman with long blonde hair and a white floppy hat,
187
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wearing boots.
188
00:11:57,918 --> 00:11:59,117
And she was saying,
189
00:11:59,219 --> 00:12:01,286
"acid is groovy,
acid is groovy,"
190
00:12:01,388 --> 00:12:03,221
and was holding a candle.
191
00:12:04,524 --> 00:12:07,392
He had tried to fight 'em off.
192
00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:20,171
Somehow, my pajama top,
193
00:12:20,273 --> 00:12:21,773
I don't know if it was ripped forward
194
00:12:21,875 --> 00:12:23,808
or pulled over my head.
195
00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:25,810
-Colette (echoing): Jeff!
-Macdonald: All of a sudden, it was in my way.
196
00:12:25,912 --> 00:12:28,313
-I couldn't get my hand free.
-Colette: Why are they doing
this to me?!
197
00:12:28,415 --> 00:12:30,415
Macdonald: I was grappling with him, and I saw,
198
00:12:30,517 --> 00:12:33,251
you know, a-a blade.
199
00:12:33,353 --> 00:12:35,153
I-I really didn't even defend myself.
200
00:12:35,255 --> 00:12:37,822
It was really too-too fast.
201
00:12:37,924 --> 00:12:39,491
Kimberly (echoing): Daddy! Daddy!
202
00:12:39,593 --> 00:12:40,925
And all this time,
203
00:12:41,027 --> 00:12:42,827
I was hearing screams.
204
00:12:42,929 --> 00:12:45,697
Kimberly (echoing): Daddy! Daddy!
205
00:12:48,869 --> 00:12:51,269
♪ ♪
206
00:12:54,307 --> 00:12:57,275
next thing I remember was lying in the hallway
207
00:12:57,377 --> 00:13:00,612
at the end of the hallway floor.
208
00:13:00,714 --> 00:13:04,883
And I-I went down, um, to the bedroom.
209
00:13:06,319 --> 00:13:09,220
My wife was lying on-on the floor,
210
00:13:09,322 --> 00:13:10,989
next to the bed.
211
00:13:12,592 --> 00:13:15,693
I tried to give her artificial respiration,
212
00:13:15,796 --> 00:13:17,462
but the air was...
213
00:13:17,564 --> 00:13:18,797
Was coming out of her chest.
214
00:13:18,899 --> 00:13:20,365
So, uh...
215
00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:22,500
I went, picked up the phone,
216
00:13:22,602 --> 00:13:26,171
and, uh, I said my name was captain macdonald
217
00:13:26,273 --> 00:13:28,740
and I was at 544 castle drive
218
00:13:28,842 --> 00:13:32,143
and I needed a doctor and an ambulance.
219
00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:34,512
I dropped the phone,
220
00:13:34,614 --> 00:13:36,581
and I went back to check the kids,
221
00:13:36,683 --> 00:13:39,584
check their pulses and stuff and, uh...
222
00:13:39,686 --> 00:13:40,852
(inhales)
223
00:13:40,954 --> 00:13:42,120
I don't know.
224
00:13:46,326 --> 00:13:49,260
It kept hitting me that, really, nothing
225
00:13:49,362 --> 00:13:51,763
had been solved when I called the operator.
226
00:13:51,865 --> 00:13:53,998
So, I went in, you know, into the kitchen,
227
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:57,101
picked up that phone and a sergeant came on.
228
00:13:57,204 --> 00:13:59,370
He said, "can I help you?"
229
00:13:59,472 --> 00:14:02,574
so I told him that I needed a doctor and an ambulance,
230
00:14:02,676 --> 00:14:04,576
that some people had been stabbed,
231
00:14:04,678 --> 00:14:07,679
and I thought I was going to die.
232
00:14:12,118 --> 00:14:15,386
By this time, I was finding it really hard to breathe,
233
00:14:15,488 --> 00:14:20,892
and, uh, and, um...
234
00:14:20,994 --> 00:14:23,528
The next thing I knew, an mp was giving me
235
00:14:23,630 --> 00:14:26,364
mouth-to-mouth resuscitation
236
00:14:26,466 --> 00:14:30,068
next to, next to my wife.
237
00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:40,545
What a strange, strange,
strange story.
238
00:14:40,647 --> 00:14:43,781
A product of the times,
the craziness of the times.
239
00:14:43,884 --> 00:14:47,886
Remember how violent and crazy
the '60s were.
240
00:14:47,988 --> 00:14:51,089
Nixon: Tonight, in south vietnam, american units
241
00:14:51,191 --> 00:14:52,757
will attack the headquarters for...
242
00:14:52,859 --> 00:14:54,792
Mine eyes have seen...
243
00:14:54,895 --> 00:14:57,262
Dr. Martin luther king has been shot to death.
244
00:14:57,364 --> 00:15:00,298
News anchor: Senator robert francis kennedy died today.
245
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,301
News anchor 2: Guardsmen opened fire on the students, killing...
246
00:15:03,403 --> 00:15:06,571
Morris: It was a time of confusion and anger.
247
00:15:06,673 --> 00:15:09,307
With each escalation, the world comes closer
248
00:15:09,409 --> 00:15:11,576
to the brink of cosmic disaster.
249
00:15:12,979 --> 00:15:16,981
And then, we have
the manson murders.
250
00:15:17,083 --> 00:15:18,783
News anchor: In a scene described as reminiscent
251
00:15:18,885 --> 00:15:20,752
of a weird religious rite,
252
00:15:20,854 --> 00:15:24,322
five persons, including actress sharon tate, were found dead.
253
00:15:24,424 --> 00:15:26,291
Miss tate was eight months pregnant.
254
00:15:26,393 --> 00:15:29,427
Not far away, a middle-aged couple was found murdered.
255
00:15:29,529 --> 00:15:32,463
Morris: This was one of the cases of the century. It's everywhere.
256
00:15:32,565 --> 00:15:35,900
News anchor: The word "war" had been carved on his chest.
257
00:15:36,002 --> 00:15:39,270
With blood, the killer had scrawled "death to pigs."
258
00:15:39,372 --> 00:15:45,143
morris: The mansons are arrested in December of 1969,
259
00:15:45,245 --> 00:15:48,947
just months before the macdonald murders occurred,
260
00:15:49,049 --> 00:15:52,016
in February of 1970.
261
00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:55,019
The army has suspects, but no prime suspects
262
00:15:55,121 --> 00:15:57,021
in the bizarre murders of the wife
263
00:15:57,123 --> 00:15:59,490
and two young daughters of an army doctor.
264
00:15:59,592 --> 00:16:02,927
Captain jeffrey macdonaldwas reported in fair condition.
265
00:16:04,097 --> 00:16:05,430
Tevere: We immediately started looking
266
00:16:05,532 --> 00:16:08,199
for these crazed people running around fayetteville,
267
00:16:08,301 --> 00:16:11,135
emulating what had happened in california.
268
00:16:15,241 --> 00:16:18,609
It put the entire fort bragg and fayetteville area
269
00:16:18,712 --> 00:16:20,945
into a, you know, panic alert.
270
00:16:22,148 --> 00:16:24,615
Everybody was concerned about,
271
00:16:24,718 --> 00:16:27,352
you know, "would they come back into the housing area again?"
272
00:16:27,454 --> 00:16:29,387
you know, "what do I do
to protect myself?"
273
00:16:29,489 --> 00:16:31,289
what about my family?
What about my kids?"
274
00:16:33,593 --> 00:16:35,493
hodges: When I went home, my wife
275
00:16:35,595 --> 00:16:38,830
had a butcher knife anda police pistol under a pillow.
276
00:16:38,932 --> 00:16:40,798
She figured if it was hippies,
I guess,
277
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:43,868
that they were still running
loose out there, you know?
278
00:16:43,970 --> 00:16:47,105
And if they did it one time,
they could do it again.
279
00:16:48,608 --> 00:16:53,144
Fort bragg is part of fayetteville.
280
00:16:53,246 --> 00:16:57,382
Fayetteville was called "fayettenam" at that time.
281
00:16:57,484 --> 00:17:01,652
Tevere: It was a melting pot for a lot of different scenarios.
282
00:17:01,755 --> 00:17:03,855
There were hippies, and there were a lot of guys
283
00:17:03,957 --> 00:17:07,191
that came back from vietnam
that had drug issues.
284
00:17:12,499 --> 00:17:14,999
Hodges: There was an area called haymount hill
285
00:17:15,101 --> 00:17:17,935
that was really bad for drugs.
286
00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:21,039
We went there and rounded up
287
00:17:21,141 --> 00:17:23,541
a bunch of hippies that halfway matched
288
00:17:23,643 --> 00:17:25,376
the description that macdonald had given.
289
00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:29,680
And none of them denied they were on drugs,
290
00:17:29,783 --> 00:17:31,282
but they all denied
291
00:17:31,384 --> 00:17:33,751
having anything to do with the murders.
292
00:17:33,853 --> 00:17:37,522
Or knowing anybody
fitting the descriptions.
293
00:17:41,528 --> 00:17:43,528
Then, her name came up.
294
00:17:45,565 --> 00:17:47,565
Helena stoeckley.
295
00:17:49,803 --> 00:17:53,237
A city police officer named prince beasley
296
00:17:53,339 --> 00:17:56,908
clamed that helena fit this description.
297
00:17:57,010 --> 00:18:00,378
I had seen helena
on many occasions,
298
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,647
with these other people
that, uh,
299
00:18:02,749 --> 00:18:05,483
dr. Macdonald gave
the description of.
300
00:18:59,906 --> 00:19:02,440
Ivory: Prince beasley called my office,
301
00:19:02,542 --> 00:19:04,909
so I made it a point to go down
and talk to him.
302
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:09,981
When I got down there, she was there.
303
00:19:11,985 --> 00:19:17,555
I interviewed her and found no leads at all.
304
00:19:17,657 --> 00:19:22,560
Absolutely no information
that would tie her to the case.
305
00:19:30,303 --> 00:19:34,138
It was just-- added more to the confusion.
306
00:19:49,489 --> 00:19:50,821
Ivory: It was...
307
00:19:50,924 --> 00:19:53,124
About halfway
through the first day.
308
00:19:57,263 --> 00:20:00,164
At that point, we went back to the house
309
00:20:00,266 --> 00:20:03,935
to take a closer look at the crime scene...
310
00:20:06,639 --> 00:20:08,172
...To find out
311
00:20:08,274 --> 00:20:11,275
what the story was,
what actually happened there.
312
00:20:13,546 --> 00:20:18,583
Hodges: It didn't really add up to anybody broke into the house.
313
00:20:18,685 --> 00:20:22,954
What had happened,
it happened inside that house.
314
00:20:37,904 --> 00:20:41,038
When you get right down to it, macdonald's the only one
315
00:20:41,140 --> 00:20:43,574
that possibly could've done it.
316
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:49,947
Announcer: This is cbs news
with walter cronkite.
317
00:20:50,049 --> 00:20:53,284
The army has changed green beret doctor jeffrey macdonald
318
00:20:53,386 --> 00:20:54,885
with the murders of his pregnant wife
319
00:20:54,988 --> 00:20:56,487
and their two young daughters
320
00:20:56,589 --> 00:20:58,956
of fort bragg, north carolina last February.
321
00:20:59,058 --> 00:21:00,791
It said the case will be referred...
322
00:21:00,893 --> 00:21:02,393
News anchor: A military article 32 hearing
323
00:21:02,495 --> 00:21:04,996
is scheduled to begin at fort bragg
324
00:21:05,098 --> 00:21:08,366
with special forces captain jeffrey macdonald.
325
00:21:08,468 --> 00:21:11,035
News anchor 2: An article 32 is the military equivalent
326
00:21:11,137 --> 00:21:13,904
of a civilian preliminary hearing.
327
00:21:16,743 --> 00:21:20,344
Malley: I was just getting ready to leave for infantry school
328
00:21:20,446 --> 00:21:26,017
when I saw the storyabout the murder at fort bragg.
329
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,085
I thought, "you know, he looks familiar."
330
00:21:28,187 --> 00:21:30,655
and then I read it, and I was shocked.
331
00:21:30,757 --> 00:21:33,858
I thought, "this has really...
332
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,593
"got to be wrong.
333
00:21:35,695 --> 00:21:37,762
"I mean, I don't know why
it's wrong, or how it's wrong,
334
00:21:37,864 --> 00:21:40,998
"but it's got--
I mean, why would jeff macdonald
335
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,000
do something like this?"
336
00:21:43,102 --> 00:21:47,204
and I kept saying,
"I h-- to me, it makes no sense,
337
00:21:47,307 --> 00:21:49,307
because I know the guy."
338
00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:57,248
jeff was my roommate sophomore year,
339
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:59,784
in, um, I-in college.
340
00:21:59,886 --> 00:22:01,519
We went to princeton,
341
00:22:01,621 --> 00:22:04,188
but jeff left at the end of our junior year
342
00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:07,558
to go to medical school, and I went to law school.
343
00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:08,726
Y-you could think, you know,
344
00:22:08,828 --> 00:22:10,261
"I wonder if jeff's
got-- gone crazy.
345
00:22:10,363 --> 00:22:12,196
I wonder if jeff's taking drugs.
I wonder..."
346
00:22:12,298 --> 00:22:14,899
y-you know, th-- all those
things you can think of,
347
00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:16,634
'cause I haven't s--
I hadn't seen him in a year or--
348
00:22:16,736 --> 00:22:18,436
more than a year.
349
00:22:18,538 --> 00:22:23,240
But none of that made any sense,
about the person that I knew.
350
00:22:25,144 --> 00:22:26,777
Then I got a letter from jeff
351
00:22:26,879 --> 00:22:29,280
saying that he is gonna request me to be
352
00:22:29,382 --> 00:22:31,382
part of the defense team.
353
00:22:33,986 --> 00:22:38,456
I told him, "you know, I'm barely out of law school."
354
00:22:38,558 --> 00:22:41,492
he needed to have a trial lawyer.
355
00:22:41,594 --> 00:22:44,295
News anchor: The mother of green beret captain jeffrey macdonald
356
00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:48,132
has hired a lawyer to defend her 26-year-old son.
357
00:22:48,234 --> 00:22:51,268
The lawyer, bernard segal, says he has started
358
00:22:51,371 --> 00:22:54,105
his own investigation of February's slayings.
359
00:22:54,207 --> 00:22:55,773
(excited chatter)
360
00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:58,509
segal:
With all my heart,
I tell every one of them
361
00:22:58,611 --> 00:23:01,011
that jeffrey macdonald
did not kill his family.
362
00:23:03,182 --> 00:23:06,817
Malley: Bernie segal had a reputation as being
363
00:23:06,919 --> 00:23:09,520
one of the upcoming criminal
trial lawyers in philadelphia.
364
00:23:09,622 --> 00:23:13,357
Segal:
He is innocent
of the charges against him.
365
00:23:17,096 --> 00:23:21,966
Morris:
So, cliff, why did you sit down
to do this interview?
366
00:23:22,068 --> 00:23:24,969
You asked me.
You're the only ones who have.
367
00:23:25,071 --> 00:23:28,472
Nobody ever asked me.
I was sort of surprised.
368
00:23:33,646 --> 00:23:37,882
Article 32s are normally quiet investigations.
369
00:23:41,721 --> 00:23:45,656
But this case was a big deal.
370
00:23:46,926 --> 00:23:48,893
And so,
371
00:23:48,995 --> 00:23:53,998
when they asked me to be the lead prosecutor,
372
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:57,301
hot dog that I was, I said,
"gee, that'd be wonderful."
373
00:23:57,403 --> 00:24:00,905
♪ ♪
374
00:24:03,810 --> 00:24:05,743
douthat:You've got to realize there was
375
00:24:05,845 --> 00:24:07,678
an anti-army feeling
at the time.
376
00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:09,413
♪ ♪
377
00:24:09,515 --> 00:24:12,483
in this case had so much publicity.
378
00:24:12,585 --> 00:24:14,418
It was on the headlines every day.
379
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,887
It had everything-- ivy league school,
380
00:24:16,989 --> 00:24:20,691
doctor, green beret, all-american boy,
381
00:24:20,793 --> 00:24:22,226
pregnant wife, children,
382
00:24:22,328 --> 00:24:25,362
homicide, and the
383
00:24:25,465 --> 00:24:28,265
pressure was
on the army to perform.
384
00:24:32,972 --> 00:24:35,606
♪ ♪
385
00:24:35,708 --> 00:24:38,509
beale: This tragic murder happened,
386
00:24:38,611 --> 00:24:40,177
and it was just awful.
387
00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:42,580
But, uh, fortunately,
I was in the right place
388
00:24:42,682 --> 00:24:44,582
at the right time
and the general offered me
389
00:24:44,684 --> 00:24:46,450
the chance to be the judge.
390
00:24:49,489 --> 00:24:52,423
Of course, when I say "judge," technically I was
391
00:24:52,525 --> 00:24:56,060
the legal advisor
to the article 32 officer...
392
00:24:56,162 --> 00:24:58,562
Colonel rock.
393
00:25:00,233 --> 00:25:03,534
This article 32 was
the biggest one I've ever seen.
394
00:25:03,636 --> 00:25:07,538
We knew-- we being the defense team--
395
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,573
we're not rolling over here.
396
00:25:18,885 --> 00:25:21,051
Somers: I don't think any of us
397
00:25:21,153 --> 00:25:24,622
at that point had a real grasp
398
00:25:24,724 --> 00:25:28,826
of just how complex this
was going to turn out to be.
399
00:25:30,763 --> 00:25:33,197
Rock:
This hearing will come to order.
400
00:25:35,535 --> 00:25:37,935
Somers: In order to establish
401
00:25:38,037 --> 00:25:40,404
what was found from the beginning,
402
00:25:40,506 --> 00:25:42,473
you have to call the witnesses
403
00:25:42,575 --> 00:25:44,675
who were on the scene
at the beginning.
404
00:25:47,713 --> 00:25:50,581
And that would be mica.
405
00:25:50,683 --> 00:25:53,350
The government calls specialist fourth class mica.
406
00:25:55,087 --> 00:25:57,955
Mica: When they started the article 32,
407
00:25:58,057 --> 00:26:00,791
I testified the 5th of July.
408
00:26:00,893 --> 00:26:02,626
It was my birthday.
409
00:26:02,728 --> 00:26:05,629
Somers:
What was the weather
like that morning?
410
00:26:05,731 --> 00:26:08,098
Mica: It was raining.
411
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,501
It rained off and on all night long.
412
00:26:10,603 --> 00:26:12,469
Somers: Did you note any unusual
413
00:26:12,572 --> 00:26:14,305
pedestrians or disturbances
414
00:26:14,407 --> 00:26:16,507
in the early morning of the 17th of February
415
00:26:16,609 --> 00:26:18,909
in that castle drive area?
416
00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:22,146
Mica: No, sir.
417
00:26:22,248 --> 00:26:25,049
Somers: According to captain mcdonald's story,
418
00:26:25,151 --> 00:26:29,086
four intruders came into his house.
419
00:26:31,924 --> 00:26:33,657
Did you see any mud
or foreign debris
420
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:36,160
on the floor of the hall,
which traversed the living room?
421
00:26:36,262 --> 00:26:38,696
Mica: No, sir.
422
00:26:38,798 --> 00:26:40,331
Somers: I was trying to establish
423
00:26:40,433 --> 00:26:42,166
an amazing lack
424
00:26:42,268 --> 00:26:45,035
of evidence of anyone
425
00:26:45,137 --> 00:26:47,304
having come into that place.
426
00:26:47,406 --> 00:26:49,873
When you glanced into the living room,
427
00:26:49,976 --> 00:26:52,910
dining room, kitchen area, did you notice any
428
00:26:53,012 --> 00:26:55,379
particular disarray in the dining room area?
429
00:26:55,481 --> 00:26:58,248
Mica: Not in the dining room.
430
00:26:58,351 --> 00:27:00,517
Somers: The dining room could not have been
431
00:27:00,620 --> 00:27:03,687
more than six feet at most
away from where all
432
00:27:03,789 --> 00:27:06,590
this fighting was taking place.
433
00:27:09,695 --> 00:27:12,029
Yet cards, which were standing up on the table,
434
00:27:12,131 --> 00:27:13,931
are still standing.
435
00:27:14,033 --> 00:27:16,567
Which I find almost impossible
436
00:27:16,669 --> 00:27:19,003
if there had been a fight there.
437
00:27:20,306 --> 00:27:21,705
Mica: In the living room, there was
438
00:27:21,807 --> 00:27:23,941
a coffee table overturned.
439
00:27:24,043 --> 00:27:25,943
Somers: How was it lying, on its top or--?
440
00:27:26,045 --> 00:27:28,045
Mica: On its edge.
441
00:27:28,147 --> 00:27:31,215
Somers: The cid investigators knocked that coffee table
442
00:27:31,317 --> 00:27:33,050
over again and again
443
00:27:33,152 --> 00:27:36,220
and again.
444
00:27:36,322 --> 00:27:37,955
It always fell on its top.
445
00:27:38,057 --> 00:27:41,625
How this table could have been sitting on its side
446
00:27:41,727 --> 00:27:44,028
on top of this stack of magazines
447
00:27:44,130 --> 00:27:46,096
as a result of being
448
00:27:46,198 --> 00:27:48,098
knocked over in a fight
449
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,767
is inconceivable.
450
00:27:49,869 --> 00:27:52,302
I have no further questions.
451
00:27:54,573 --> 00:27:57,107
Malley: The prosecution said, "everybody knows
452
00:27:57,209 --> 00:27:59,777
that the guy who is accused did it anyway,"
453
00:27:59,879 --> 00:28:05,082
and so, they felt they have anauthority that nobody else has.
454
00:28:05,184 --> 00:28:08,652
They had no idea, no idea,
455
00:28:08,754 --> 00:28:11,355
what real defense counsel
could do.
456
00:28:12,391 --> 00:28:13,957
Segal:
At this time,
457
00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:15,793
I want to show you some photographs
458
00:28:15,895 --> 00:28:17,895
that have been supplied to the defense by the government.
459
00:28:18,898 --> 00:28:20,264
Douthat: We got
460
00:28:20,366 --> 00:28:22,966
the witness statements
and whatnot from the various mps
461
00:28:23,069 --> 00:28:24,668
and the crime scene photographs,
462
00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:28,072
and they didn't
necessarily jive.
463
00:28:28,174 --> 00:28:31,275
Segal:
Specialist mica,
do you ever recall
464
00:28:31,377 --> 00:28:34,812
seeing the telephone in that particular fashion?
465
00:28:34,914 --> 00:28:37,014
Mica: Yes, sir.
466
00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:40,784
Segal: Do you ever recall the handset being where it appears to be
467
00:28:40,886 --> 00:28:42,319
in this photograph?
468
00:28:42,421 --> 00:28:45,355
Mica: No, sir, not that I remember.
469
00:28:45,458 --> 00:28:47,191
What happened was,
470
00:28:47,293 --> 00:28:51,195
photographer came in,
he started taking photos...
471
00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,934
...And he got so upset and sick that he couldn't continue.
472
00:28:57,036 --> 00:28:59,970
So you had one set ofphotographs I-in the beginning,
473
00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:02,372
then you had a time lapse
474
00:29:02,475 --> 00:29:05,309
by the time they brought a second photographer in.
475
00:29:05,411 --> 00:29:09,446
And they had two different sets of photos they were using.
476
00:29:12,151 --> 00:29:14,017
Douthat: To me, the first thing you do is secure
477
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,653
the crime scene,
and that was not done.
478
00:29:16,756 --> 00:29:19,623
Segal: What is different in this photograph
479
00:29:19,725 --> 00:29:21,992
than as what you recall seeing?
480
00:29:22,094 --> 00:29:25,162
Mica: Well, it shows this red thing here.
481
00:29:25,264 --> 00:29:26,964
I thought it was more or less down the steps
482
00:29:27,066 --> 00:29:28,532
in front of the stairs.
483
00:29:28,634 --> 00:29:30,167
Malley: Bernie's view was, "you know,
484
00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:33,904
"once you start pulling
those little threads out,
485
00:29:34,006 --> 00:29:37,908
the garment might fall apart,"
and it turned out, it did.
486
00:29:38,010 --> 00:29:41,578
Segal:
What is different
about that white flower pot
487
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,014
in the photograph
than as what you recall seeing?
488
00:29:44,116 --> 00:29:45,682
In this photograph,
it is standing
489
00:29:45,785 --> 00:29:48,519
on what appears to be its base.
490
00:29:48,621 --> 00:29:50,888
I remember it as being on its side.
491
00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:53,090
Beale: There was a flower pot
492
00:29:53,192 --> 00:29:54,725
that got stood up.
493
00:29:54,827 --> 00:29:56,093
They had moved the clothing.
494
00:29:56,195 --> 00:29:57,928
Somebody put the phone
495
00:29:58,030 --> 00:29:59,863
back on the hook.
496
00:29:59,965 --> 00:30:01,498
It really started to raise questions
497
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,835
in your mind of, "gee whiz,
what were they doing?
498
00:30:04,937 --> 00:30:07,037
Who was moving all this stuff?"
499
00:30:07,139 --> 00:30:10,507
segal: I would like, if you could assist us, specialist mica,
500
00:30:10,609 --> 00:30:13,010
to help us determine
501
00:30:13,112 --> 00:30:15,546
how many people were in the macdonald house
502
00:30:15,648 --> 00:30:18,715
at the time the medics came and removed captain macdonald.
503
00:30:18,818 --> 00:30:21,785
Mica: There were just too many people in there.
504
00:30:21,887 --> 00:30:23,620
At one point, somebody said,
505
00:30:23,722 --> 00:30:25,389
"how long is it gonna be
before they, you know,
506
00:30:25,491 --> 00:30:27,457
remove the bodies," they said,
"oh, it's gonna be hours,"
507
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,126
and this guy's like, "ugh."
508
00:30:29,228 --> 00:30:33,096
he walked across, sat on the couch.
509
00:30:33,199 --> 00:30:35,532
I said, "get off the couch."
510
00:30:35,634 --> 00:30:37,201
segal: That white flower pot,
511
00:30:37,303 --> 00:30:40,137
how had it gotten
from its position
512
00:30:40,239 --> 00:30:43,640
lying on its side
to standing on its base?
513
00:30:43,742 --> 00:30:47,644
Mica: I believe it was that man who sat on the couch
514
00:30:47,746 --> 00:30:49,980
I believe he sat it upright.
515
00:30:52,051 --> 00:30:56,053
Segal:
I have nothing further of this
witness, sir, at this time.
516
00:30:58,691 --> 00:31:00,457
Douthat: Once we started to cut
517
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:03,894
the feet out from under them,
we began to feel pretty good.
518
00:31:03,996 --> 00:31:05,329
Bernie decided,
519
00:31:05,431 --> 00:31:06,930
"let's go back to the table going over.
520
00:31:07,032 --> 00:31:09,499
That was a big deal for them."
521
00:31:09,602 --> 00:31:11,468
and if you look at the photographs,
522
00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:16,306
there was a rocking chair in front of the table.
523
00:31:16,408 --> 00:31:19,309
And we figured, "wait a minute,
what happened was,
524
00:31:19,411 --> 00:31:22,980
"is the-the coffee table hit the
chair, spun the chair around,
525
00:31:23,082 --> 00:31:25,482
"it stopped the momentum,
the magazines fell
526
00:31:25,584 --> 00:31:27,684
and the coffee table
landed on top of 'em."
527
00:31:27,786 --> 00:31:31,455
we asked colonel rock to try and settle it.
528
00:31:31,557 --> 00:31:34,791
Beale: Colonel rock and I went over
529
00:31:34,894 --> 00:31:37,761
to the quarters where
the murders took place.
530
00:31:37,863 --> 00:31:41,198
He wanted to try this little experiment with this table.
531
00:31:48,207 --> 00:31:50,440
How'd it land-land on its side?
532
00:31:50,542 --> 00:31:54,144
He kind of laughed and said,
"so much for that theory."
533
00:31:54,246 --> 00:31:56,713
(indistinct chatter)
534
00:31:56,815 --> 00:32:00,550
segal: The crime scene handling by the, uh, army cid
535
00:32:00,653 --> 00:32:04,354
is a primary example of a crime scene investigation gone mad.
536
00:32:04,456 --> 00:32:08,859
27 different people marched through the crime scene,
537
00:32:08,961 --> 00:32:13,130
destroying a great deal of what was potential evidence there,
538
00:32:13,232 --> 00:32:14,564
without a doubt.
539
00:32:27,346 --> 00:32:30,614
Morris: The deaths were horrible.
540
00:32:30,716 --> 00:32:36,286
And we're talking about his wife, his children.
541
00:32:36,388 --> 00:32:40,157
We're talking about two little girls.
542
00:32:40,259 --> 00:32:43,427
Kimberley and kristen, five and two.
543
00:32:46,765 --> 00:32:48,732
If jeffrey indeed was responsible
544
00:32:48,834 --> 00:32:50,834
for these murders...
545
00:32:53,706 --> 00:32:57,674
...What was the motivation?
546
00:32:57,776 --> 00:33:00,210
Why did he do it?
547
00:33:03,282 --> 00:33:05,015
Rock: Does counsel for the accused
548
00:33:05,117 --> 00:33:08,785
have any further witnesses at this time?
549
00:33:08,887 --> 00:33:12,689
Segal: Yes, sir. Mr. Kassab, please.
550
00:33:12,791 --> 00:33:15,926
Would you state what
relationship you are
551
00:33:16,028 --> 00:33:17,761
to captain jeffrey macdonald?
552
00:33:17,863 --> 00:33:20,864
I am his father-in-law.
553
00:33:20,966 --> 00:33:22,532
Douthat: Did you ever hear jeff macdonald
554
00:33:22,634 --> 00:33:27,304
raise his voice to your daughter in anger?
555
00:33:27,406 --> 00:33:29,473
Freddy: No. Never at any time.
556
00:33:29,575 --> 00:33:34,478
They were the happiest I'd ever seen them.
557
00:33:34,580 --> 00:33:38,048
Malley: We interviewed a lot of his friends, his family,
558
00:33:38,150 --> 00:33:41,885
his-his former patients, to show
what kind of a guy he was.
559
00:33:41,987 --> 00:33:45,555
Everybody liked jeff,
560
00:33:45,657 --> 00:33:49,493
including freddy kassab.
561
00:33:49,595 --> 00:33:51,995
Segal:
Can you describe
his attitude and conduct
562
00:33:52,097 --> 00:33:53,630
towards his children?
563
00:33:53,732 --> 00:33:56,333
Freddy: Every time you'd turn around,
564
00:33:56,435 --> 00:33:58,835
he had one of the girls playing with him.
565
00:34:00,939 --> 00:34:03,807
Man:
Do you and mildred miss colette?
566
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:05,475
Oh, god, yes.
567
00:34:06,512 --> 00:34:08,512
And the children.
568
00:34:13,619 --> 00:34:16,353
Man: Life hasn't been quite the same?
569
00:34:16,455 --> 00:34:19,956
Freddy: It's never been the same since that day.
570
00:34:41,113 --> 00:34:44,614
Stevenson: I remember standing there, waiting,
571
00:34:44,716 --> 00:34:46,716
and then seeing...
572
00:34:47,953 --> 00:34:50,053
...Beside my sister's coffin,
573
00:34:50,155 --> 00:34:53,890
two little coffins
about this big
574
00:34:53,992 --> 00:34:56,393
being put into the ground.
575
00:34:56,495 --> 00:35:01,498
It broke me. It broke me.
576
00:35:07,706 --> 00:35:09,806
-Morris: When we spoke the first time... -Yes.
577
00:35:09,908 --> 00:35:11,441
Morris: ...You seemed at wit's end
578
00:35:11,543 --> 00:35:14,211
with this constant retelling of this story.
579
00:35:14,313 --> 00:35:19,983
Every year, somebody wants
to throw a rope around my legs
580
00:35:20,085 --> 00:35:22,986
and drag me through
the family pool of blood again,
581
00:35:23,088 --> 00:35:26,056
and I have to go through all of
it and learning too many things,
582
00:35:26,158 --> 00:35:29,626
uh-- remembering things I don't
want to remember anymore,
583
00:35:29,728 --> 00:35:31,061
and I'm not gonna do it anymore.
584
00:35:31,163 --> 00:35:32,996
That was... That was it.
585
00:35:35,767 --> 00:35:41,304
But I've come to understandthat it's not going to go away.
586
00:35:41,406 --> 00:35:43,039
I'll tell my story.
587
00:35:44,076 --> 00:35:46,510
I'll tell what I can.
588
00:35:47,779 --> 00:35:50,714
♪ ♪
589
00:35:52,451 --> 00:35:55,385
my mother wanted a girl desperately.
590
00:35:56,788 --> 00:35:58,855
She had had stillborn children.
591
00:36:00,225 --> 00:36:02,926
Each one was named colette.
592
00:36:03,028 --> 00:36:06,496
I remember one of my mother's catholic friends saying,
593
00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:09,166
"how will god ever know
which colette is which?"
594
00:36:09,268 --> 00:36:11,034
tried to deter her.
595
00:36:11,136 --> 00:36:12,636
"don't do another colette."
596
00:36:14,273 --> 00:36:17,541
but yet, my sister was colette three.
597
00:36:19,278 --> 00:36:22,946
My mother dressed her to a fault.
598
00:36:23,048 --> 00:36:25,682
She was the most picturesque thing
599
00:36:25,784 --> 00:36:27,784
you ever saw in your life.
600
00:36:31,290 --> 00:36:33,223
Smerling: When did you meet colette?
601
00:36:33,325 --> 00:36:35,525
Kindergarten.
602
00:36:35,627 --> 00:36:37,694
You know, you walk in
the first day,
603
00:36:37,796 --> 00:36:40,497
and, you know,
you look to find somebody.
604
00:36:43,168 --> 00:36:47,504
Right from the beginning, we were kind of buddies.
605
00:36:47,606 --> 00:36:50,507
She was funny, she was lighthearted.
606
00:36:50,609 --> 00:36:52,709
She was my best friend.
607
00:36:52,811 --> 00:36:57,314
But as close as I was to her...
608
00:36:58,784 --> 00:37:01,851
...She camouflaged a lot of things.
609
00:37:05,290 --> 00:37:08,158
The only thing she shared is when her father died,
610
00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:11,261
how sad, how devastated she was.
611
00:37:17,202 --> 00:37:19,169
We were really much closer
612
00:37:19,271 --> 00:37:21,605
than most mothers and daughters,
613
00:37:21,707 --> 00:37:24,874
because as a little child,
she lost her father,
614
00:37:24,977 --> 00:37:27,277
and I meant...
615
00:37:27,379 --> 00:37:29,779
More to her because of that.
616
00:37:29,881 --> 00:37:32,015
And then, when I married freddy,
617
00:37:32,117 --> 00:37:35,719
she just loved him as a father.
618
00:37:35,821 --> 00:37:38,888
Man: How old was colette when you first met her?
619
00:37:38,991 --> 00:37:40,557
Freddy: When I first met colette,
620
00:37:40,659 --> 00:37:43,260
she was approximately 13 years of age.
621
00:37:43,362 --> 00:37:45,095
I was courting her mother.
622
00:37:45,197 --> 00:37:48,431
Um, it was
quite a while back now.
623
00:37:48,533 --> 00:37:50,900
Stevenson: Colette loved freddy.
624
00:37:51,003 --> 00:37:54,137
She loved him very, very much.
625
00:37:55,807 --> 00:37:57,874
Man: You have also
626
00:37:57,976 --> 00:38:00,443
known jeff macdonald
for a long, long time.
627
00:38:00,545 --> 00:38:03,146
When did you first meet
macdonald?
628
00:38:03,248 --> 00:38:05,315
I first met macdonald
629
00:38:05,417 --> 00:38:09,953
probably within a month or two
after I met colette.
630
00:38:10,055 --> 00:38:13,056
They were in junior high school
together,
631
00:38:13,158 --> 00:38:15,191
and he would come over
to the house.
632
00:38:17,696 --> 00:38:21,431
Mildred: He and colette dated through high school.
633
00:38:21,533 --> 00:38:24,668
We thought he was a...
An especially nice boy.
634
00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:26,403
Very nice.
635
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,273
Reich: Jeff was a football star.
636
00:38:30,375 --> 00:38:32,776
He had charisma.
637
00:38:32,878 --> 00:38:35,011
Everybody liked him.
638
00:38:35,113 --> 00:38:36,946
He was outgoing.
639
00:38:37,049 --> 00:38:38,782
Uh, he was friendly.
640
00:38:38,884 --> 00:38:41,618
He was just everything.
641
00:38:43,789 --> 00:38:47,090
Smerling: How quickly did jeffrey and colette get married?
642
00:38:47,192 --> 00:38:49,292
Reich: She was 20.
643
00:38:49,394 --> 00:38:51,528
I came back from school, and
644
00:38:51,630 --> 00:38:53,863
she called to say
she was getting married.
645
00:38:53,965 --> 00:38:56,766
And, you know,
I was a little surprised,
646
00:38:56,868 --> 00:38:58,835
but then I realized she told me
647
00:38:58,937 --> 00:39:00,970
why they were getting married,
so...
648
00:39:01,073 --> 00:39:02,305
Smerling:
And why was that?
649
00:39:02,407 --> 00:39:04,074
She was pregnant.
650
00:39:08,914 --> 00:39:10,780
Man: I take it you and mildred were pleased
651
00:39:10,882 --> 00:39:12,148
when they decided to get married?
652
00:39:12,250 --> 00:39:15,285
Freddy: Oh, yes.
653
00:39:15,387 --> 00:39:17,520
He was a nice, presentable young man,
654
00:39:17,622 --> 00:39:19,989
good potential for the future,
655
00:39:20,092 --> 00:39:21,391
so therefore we saw nothing wrong
656
00:39:21,493 --> 00:39:22,992
with them getting married.
657
00:39:35,474 --> 00:39:37,173
Freddy:
May I add one thing?
658
00:39:37,275 --> 00:39:38,842
Segal:
Yes, you may.
659
00:39:38,944 --> 00:39:41,044
Freddy:
If I had another daughter,
660
00:39:41,146 --> 00:39:44,180
I'd still want
the same son-in-law.
661
00:39:52,424 --> 00:39:55,525
(crowd chatter)
662
00:39:57,429 --> 00:39:59,696
my daughter
and two grandchildren...
663
00:39:59,798 --> 00:40:02,065
(clears throat)
excuse me.
664
00:40:02,167 --> 00:40:06,369
...Suffered in excess
of 80 stab wounds.
665
00:40:06,471 --> 00:40:09,839
What they want the public
to believe is
666
00:40:09,941 --> 00:40:11,941
that a sane man--
667
00:40:12,043 --> 00:40:14,377
and they charged premeditation,
mind you--
668
00:40:14,479 --> 00:40:17,113
sat down and planned
669
00:40:17,215 --> 00:40:19,516
to perform such an act.
670
00:40:19,618 --> 00:40:21,951
I don't believe anybody in
this country would believe that.
671
00:40:22,053 --> 00:40:24,220
That a sane man would do this.
672
00:40:31,113 --> 00:40:33,446
Somers: You can't explain this
673
00:40:33,548 --> 00:40:37,450
horrendous event logically,
674
00:40:37,552 --> 00:40:41,988
because if indeed
macdonald did it,
675
00:40:42,090 --> 00:40:45,558
he was in no frame of mind
to be logical.
676
00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:47,827
I believe
677
00:40:47,929 --> 00:40:51,297
if the story fits the physical evidence,
678
00:40:51,399 --> 00:40:53,533
then you probably
have a good story.
679
00:40:53,635 --> 00:40:55,735
If it doesn't fit
the physical evidence,
680
00:40:55,837 --> 00:40:57,570
then it's a loser.
681
00:40:57,672 --> 00:41:00,140
Jeff's never fit that evidence.
682
00:41:00,242 --> 00:41:02,408
(doors open)
683
00:41:02,511 --> 00:41:04,410
attorney:
The government calls
684
00:41:04,513 --> 00:41:06,579
specialist fourth class
craig chamberlain.
685
00:41:06,681 --> 00:41:08,414
Somers: There is only one story
686
00:41:08,517 --> 00:41:10,250
that fit that evidence.
687
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:13,219
Chamberlain: I was called in
688
00:41:13,321 --> 00:41:15,021
to the head of the lab and said,
689
00:41:15,123 --> 00:41:16,589
"there's a murder case
at fort bragg.
690
00:41:16,691 --> 00:41:19,492
We need you to go there
as a member of a team."
691
00:41:23,532 --> 00:41:26,866
probably the most important evidence was that
692
00:41:26,968 --> 00:41:28,868
each member
of the group of four
693
00:41:28,970 --> 00:41:31,137
in that family had
a different blood type.
694
00:41:32,707 --> 00:41:36,876
Somers: Jeff had b blood,
695
00:41:36,978 --> 00:41:39,712
colette had a blood,
696
00:41:39,815 --> 00:41:42,949
kimberley had ab blood,
697
00:41:43,051 --> 00:41:45,852
and kristen had o blood.
698
00:41:45,954 --> 00:41:48,521
So you could trace
699
00:41:48,623 --> 00:41:51,724
where everybody's blood was in that unit.
700
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:55,261
Chamberlain: Macdonald had said
701
00:41:55,363 --> 00:41:57,997
he was assaulted in the living room.
702
00:42:00,335 --> 00:42:02,302
Smerling: Do you remember where blood was found in the living room?
703
00:42:02,404 --> 00:42:04,103
It just wasn't there.
704
00:42:04,206 --> 00:42:07,073
But there was a massive amount of blood
705
00:42:07,175 --> 00:42:10,910
in the master bedroomwhere colette's body was found.
706
00:42:12,881 --> 00:42:16,049
Somers: Our theory was that an argument ensued
707
00:42:16,151 --> 00:42:18,751
in the master bedroom with colette.
708
00:42:18,854 --> 00:42:22,555
That argument
709
00:42:22,657 --> 00:42:23,923
begins to escalate.
710
00:42:26,328 --> 00:42:29,562
At some point, macdonald picks up this stick,
711
00:42:29,664 --> 00:42:31,497
and he starts beating her.
712
00:42:37,939 --> 00:42:39,305
Kimberly (echoing): Daddy! Daddy!
713
00:42:39,407 --> 00:42:41,741
We believe, while this is going on,
714
00:42:41,843 --> 00:42:45,912
kimberley, his older daughter, gets out of bed.
715
00:42:46,014 --> 00:42:49,015
He has the stick in his hand.
716
00:42:49,117 --> 00:42:50,783
He swings it around,
717
00:42:50,886 --> 00:42:53,953
and it hits her...
718
00:42:54,055 --> 00:42:56,823
Right across the side
of the head,
719
00:42:56,925 --> 00:42:59,525
crushes her skull.
720
00:42:59,628 --> 00:43:02,295
I mean, knocked it in a couple of inches.
721
00:43:05,734 --> 00:43:09,636
At this point, he is a physician.
722
00:43:09,738 --> 00:43:13,439
He knows
she is either going to die,
723
00:43:13,541 --> 00:43:16,309
or she is going to have serious,
serious consequences
724
00:43:16,411 --> 00:43:17,877
of that wound.
725
00:43:23,752 --> 00:43:26,319
I believe he takes kimberley
726
00:43:26,421 --> 00:43:28,421
back to her bedroom.
727
00:43:30,792 --> 00:43:32,392
Attorney:
Specialist chamberlain,
728
00:43:32,494 --> 00:43:35,361
I see that you have drawn
two oblongs on this picture,
729
00:43:35,463 --> 00:43:37,363
and they seem
to be labeled "ab."
730
00:43:37,465 --> 00:43:40,300
would you tell us what that means?
731
00:43:40,402 --> 00:43:42,068
Chamberlain: That means I determined
732
00:43:42,170 --> 00:43:45,071
there was ab blood within these areas.
733
00:43:45,173 --> 00:43:47,206
Somers: That's kimberley's blood
734
00:43:47,309 --> 00:43:49,909
in the entrance to the master bedroom.
735
00:43:56,518 --> 00:43:58,084
Smerling: Kristy's bed--
736
00:43:58,186 --> 00:44:00,186
do you remember how much blood was there?
737
00:44:00,288 --> 00:44:02,689
Chamberlain: There was a lot of blood on the bed clothing.
738
00:44:02,791 --> 00:44:06,926
The sheets that had colette's type a blood indicated on it.
739
00:44:07,028 --> 00:44:12,131
It was like, "why is colette's blood in the kids' room?"
740
00:44:15,203 --> 00:44:17,103
somers: At some point,
741
00:44:17,205 --> 00:44:19,939
colette goes into kristen's room
742
00:44:20,041 --> 00:44:22,375
as though she were attempting
743
00:44:22,477 --> 00:44:26,179
to protect her youngest child,
744
00:44:26,281 --> 00:44:30,550
and jeff hits her in the head.
745
00:44:30,652 --> 00:44:33,586
She falls, and she bleeds
746
00:44:33,688 --> 00:44:36,789
all over the top part of the bed.
747
00:44:51,206 --> 00:44:54,907
Jeff's got to figure out, what does he do now?
748
00:44:59,848 --> 00:45:01,214
(camera shutter clicks)
749
00:45:01,316 --> 00:45:03,783
under the table in the living room,
750
00:45:03,885 --> 00:45:06,419
an esquire magazine was found.
751
00:45:09,324 --> 00:45:11,591
Chamberlain: There was type ab
752
00:45:11,693 --> 00:45:14,594
blood on the edge
of the, uh, magazine.
753
00:45:14,696 --> 00:45:20,400
Somers: How did ab blood get into the magazine?
754
00:45:20,502 --> 00:45:23,503
It's kimberley's blood.
She sure didn't put it there.
755
00:45:25,673 --> 00:45:29,675
In that magazine was an article about the manson killings,
756
00:45:29,778 --> 00:45:34,147
including the word "pig" written in blood.
757
00:45:34,249 --> 00:45:36,616
The theory was that
758
00:45:36,718 --> 00:45:40,653
jeff consulted the esquire magazine,
759
00:45:40,755 --> 00:45:43,856
and he says, "I got it.
760
00:45:43,958 --> 00:45:45,858
"a bunch of hippies came in.
761
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,628
But wait a minute."
762
00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:50,596
he can't tell them
763
00:45:50,698 --> 00:45:53,566
that some hippies came in and just beat up two of them.
764
00:45:55,570 --> 00:45:58,371
He goes back into kristen's room,
765
00:45:58,473 --> 00:46:01,274
and using a knife,
766
00:46:01,376 --> 00:46:03,810
he stabs her.
767
00:46:08,750 --> 00:46:09,949
(blood dripping)
768
00:46:10,051 --> 00:46:14,320
we know she was awake, because kristen
769
00:46:14,422 --> 00:46:16,889
had wounds to her hands.
770
00:46:22,764 --> 00:46:26,532
Then he stabs his wife repeatedly with
771
00:46:26,634 --> 00:46:27,934
the ice pick.
772
00:46:30,572 --> 00:46:35,007
And then he staged "pig" on the headboard.
773
00:46:35,110 --> 00:46:37,844
Chamberlain: Written on, uh, the headboard
774
00:46:37,946 --> 00:46:40,580
was "p-I-g."
775
00:46:40,682 --> 00:46:42,415
no fingerprints involved
in that.
776
00:46:42,517 --> 00:46:45,017
Somers: We found fragments
777
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,520
of surgical gloves in the bedroom.
778
00:46:51,493 --> 00:46:53,326
No.
779
00:46:54,662 --> 00:46:56,529
We found b blood in the kitchen
780
00:46:56,631 --> 00:46:58,931
on the floor.
781
00:46:59,033 --> 00:47:01,801
We look in the cabinet under the kitchen sink.
782
00:47:03,872 --> 00:47:06,038
There was a whole package
of surgical gloves.
783
00:47:08,643 --> 00:47:13,279
That has to be macdonald.
784
00:47:13,381 --> 00:47:15,181
Unless there's somebody else in there bleeding,
785
00:47:15,283 --> 00:47:16,716
and his story doesn't have
786
00:47:16,818 --> 00:47:18,618
any of them bleeding.
787
00:47:20,021 --> 00:47:22,555
Captain macdonald had a laceration
788
00:47:22,657 --> 00:47:25,925
between his ribs that resulted
789
00:47:26,027 --> 00:47:27,293
in a collapsed lung.
790
00:47:27,395 --> 00:47:29,295
Chamberlain: In the bathroom,
791
00:47:29,397 --> 00:47:32,298
there was blood drippings around the sink.
792
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,600
It was type b blood,
793
00:47:34,702 --> 00:47:38,304
which wasjeffrey macdonald's blood type.
794
00:47:38,406 --> 00:47:40,973
Somers:I think he inflicted that wound
795
00:47:41,075 --> 00:47:44,310
on himself very carefully.
796
00:47:46,748 --> 00:47:49,315
And that is essentially the way
797
00:47:49,417 --> 00:47:52,818
in which jeffrey macdonald became a murderer.
798
00:48:12,991 --> 00:48:14,991
-(siren wailing)
-(indistinct radio chatter)
799
00:49:27,899 --> 00:49:29,498
when we first started
getting interviewed
800
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,935
before the article 32,
I bring the girl up,
801
00:49:33,037 --> 00:49:36,572
and they're like, "what girl?"
I said, "the girl I saw."
802
00:49:44,615 --> 00:49:46,148
(laughs softly)
803
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:50,086
I got to say, I thought...
804
00:49:53,224 --> 00:49:56,325
...Excuse my language--
bullshit.
805
00:49:56,427 --> 00:49:58,327
Bullshit.
806
00:49:58,429 --> 00:50:01,163
Mica, at that point,
807
00:50:01,265 --> 00:50:04,667
sounded like he wanted to be
an investigative hero.
808
00:50:09,107 --> 00:50:11,207
Mica: I knew what I saw.
809
00:50:11,309 --> 00:50:12,408
I figured,
810
00:50:12,510 --> 00:50:14,076
it's gonna come up
sooner or later.
811
00:50:17,181 --> 00:50:20,716
So I went to the defense and I told 'em.
812
00:50:20,818 --> 00:50:25,521
Bernie segal says, "I'm gonna put you back on the stand."
813
00:50:25,623 --> 00:50:27,523
segal:
Specialist mica,
814
00:50:27,625 --> 00:50:30,192
you're the same witness who was previously called
815
00:50:30,294 --> 00:50:32,828
and testified in these proceedings?
816
00:50:32,930 --> 00:50:35,364
Yes, sir.
817
00:50:35,466 --> 00:50:38,701
Segal: Does that drawing resemble
818
00:50:38,803 --> 00:50:41,704
any person that you believe to have seen?
819
00:50:41,806 --> 00:50:44,240
Mica: It could, sir.
820
00:50:44,342 --> 00:50:46,842
Segal:
Who do you believe
it could represent?
821
00:50:49,380 --> 00:50:53,215
Mica: Possibly the girl I saw on the corner that night.
822
00:50:54,485 --> 00:50:56,585
(reporters clamoring)
823
00:50:56,687 --> 00:51:00,856
segal:
A woman who had been uncovered
by myself was in fact a person
824
00:51:00,958 --> 00:51:02,792
whom the civilian authorities
should investigate
825
00:51:02,894 --> 00:51:05,261
for complicity in the murders
of dr. Macdonald's family
826
00:51:05,363 --> 00:51:06,562
and assaulting him.
827
00:51:10,868 --> 00:51:12,768
Douthat: It was on the headlines that day.
828
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:15,438
And people were sending us letters
829
00:51:15,540 --> 00:51:17,273
and-and calling us on the phone.
830
00:51:17,375 --> 00:51:19,809
And some of them were crazy
and some of them were right
831
00:51:19,911 --> 00:51:22,144
on the money and-and were trying
to be as helpful as they could.
832
00:51:25,049 --> 00:51:28,784
And we came upon a guy named posey.
833
00:51:28,886 --> 00:51:33,155
Segal: The defense calls william edward posey.
834
00:51:34,759 --> 00:51:36,992
Douthat: He said that he had this neighbor
835
00:51:37,095 --> 00:51:39,195
that was strange, to say the least.
836
00:51:41,766 --> 00:51:45,000
And then, on the night that the murders took place,
837
00:51:45,103 --> 00:51:46,635
he saw her come in in the middle of the night
838
00:51:46,737 --> 00:51:48,737
in a mustang car.
839
00:51:51,609 --> 00:51:53,909
He was getting out of the car
and going to the house.
840
00:51:54,011 --> 00:51:56,178
Segal: Would you describe
841
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,014
what her normal wearing apparel was?
842
00:51:59,117 --> 00:52:01,317
Posey: Well, she had a big old white floppy hat
843
00:52:01,419 --> 00:52:02,818
that she wore.
844
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,589
And she had a pair of white boots that she wore a lot.
845
00:52:09,093 --> 00:52:10,860
Douthat: She fit the description of the person
846
00:52:10,962 --> 00:52:14,296
that jeffrey macdonald
described and mica described.
847
00:52:14,398 --> 00:52:16,799
Her name was helena stoeckley.
848
00:52:20,304 --> 00:52:23,239
All the stuff hanging out there
about stoeckley...
849
00:52:24,475 --> 00:52:27,376
...Everything pointed to her.
850
00:52:27,478 --> 00:52:30,813
What in the world would somebody be out there
851
00:52:30,915 --> 00:52:33,949
dressed just like the hippie that macdonald described,
852
00:52:34,051 --> 00:52:35,651
that had just attacked him?
853
00:52:35,753 --> 00:52:40,389
That-that really did raise
some interesting questions.
854
00:53:40,985 --> 00:53:42,985
♪ ♪
855
00:53:55,833 --> 00:53:57,533
smerling: Now you're waiting for colonel rock
856
00:53:57,635 --> 00:53:58,901
-to make his decision. -Douthat: Mm-hmm.
857
00:53:59,003 --> 00:54:00,069
Smerling: How long did that take?
858
00:54:00,171 --> 00:54:01,904
(exhales)
859
00:54:02,006 --> 00:54:04,707
a month, six weeks?
Uh, it took a while.
860
00:54:06,277 --> 00:54:09,044
We kind of heard it was coming down, and every now and then,
861
00:54:09,146 --> 00:54:11,247
we'd get a whiff of what was gonna happen,
862
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:12,982
but we didn't know.
863
00:54:16,220 --> 00:54:18,254
Colonel rock had been given a job
864
00:54:18,356 --> 00:54:21,056
that was the headlines of every paper,
865
00:54:21,158 --> 00:54:22,791
and he was gonna get it right.
866
00:54:24,462 --> 00:54:26,295
Smerling:
Can you read it for me?
867
00:54:26,397 --> 00:54:28,797
Yeah. Yeah, well, sure,
I can read it.
868
00:54:28,899 --> 00:54:30,933
Um...
869
00:54:31,035 --> 00:54:33,202
"high security report
870
00:54:33,304 --> 00:54:35,070
"on the meeting
between colonel rock
871
00:54:35,172 --> 00:54:37,740
general flanagan
and captain beale."
872
00:54:48,853 --> 00:54:51,086
I remember flanagan was
873
00:54:51,188 --> 00:54:54,156
the commanding general
of special forces,
874
00:54:54,258 --> 00:54:57,559
and colonel rock, his job was to make a recommendation
875
00:54:57,662 --> 00:54:59,595
as to whether this case ought to go forward
876
00:54:59,697 --> 00:55:02,231
with an actual trial.
877
00:55:02,333 --> 00:55:05,000
Must have been
an exchange between them.
878
00:55:05,102 --> 00:55:09,405
"rock offered the statement
that 'I searched high and low
879
00:55:09,507 --> 00:55:11,640
"'for points that show
jeff did it,
880
00:55:11,742 --> 00:55:15,678
but they ain't there.'"
881
00:55:16,881 --> 00:55:18,180
"flanagan said,
882
00:55:18,282 --> 00:55:24,019
"'but what about
the grass and mud?'
883
00:55:24,121 --> 00:55:29,892
rock said, '14 mps hadn't
carried any in, either.'"
884
00:55:32,730 --> 00:55:37,633
"flanagan said, 'but what about the coffee table?'
885
00:55:37,735 --> 00:55:40,936
rock recounted the entire sequence of events."
886
00:55:44,442 --> 00:55:47,176
"flanagan asked if there was
any evidence for anyone else
887
00:55:47,278 --> 00:55:50,612
being in the house."
888
00:55:52,249 --> 00:55:56,652
"rock covered all the points, and also posey."
889
00:55:58,556 --> 00:56:01,690
"'is there anything else
the government can do now
890
00:56:01,792 --> 00:56:05,327
"to solidify the case?'
891
00:56:05,429 --> 00:56:07,696
rock said,
'no, you shot your wad.'"
892
00:56:07,798 --> 00:56:09,031
(laughs softly)
893
00:56:09,133 --> 00:56:11,133
"rock then said,
894
00:56:11,235 --> 00:56:15,237
"'the army had already spent
large sums,
895
00:56:15,339 --> 00:56:16,672
"'and to spend any more money
896
00:56:16,774 --> 00:56:20,576
would make the army
look like fools.'"
897
00:56:25,483 --> 00:56:26,682
yeah.
898
00:56:27,752 --> 00:56:29,418
Yeah.
899
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,322
No, I don't. But that doesn't
mean it didn't happen.
900
00:56:38,462 --> 00:56:41,764
Malley: This case was a big deal.
901
00:56:41,866 --> 00:56:43,866
And I think the army thought,
902
00:56:43,968 --> 00:56:45,868
"we got to wrap this up quickly.
903
00:56:45,970 --> 00:56:47,269
"um, it's-- it-- you know,
904
00:56:47,371 --> 00:56:49,705
"cbs evening news knows
about it,
905
00:56:49,807 --> 00:56:51,907
and that's not what we want."
906
00:56:52,009 --> 00:56:53,609
cronkite: The army today
907
00:56:53,711 --> 00:56:55,444
cleared captain jeffrey macdonald,
908
00:56:55,546 --> 00:56:58,046
a green beret physician, of charges that he murdered
909
00:56:58,149 --> 00:57:00,783
his wife and two young daughters nine months ago
910
00:57:00,885 --> 00:57:03,185
in their fort bragg, north carolina apartment.
911
00:57:03,287 --> 00:57:06,755
The army said that five weeksof closed-door hearings had not
912
00:57:06,857 --> 00:57:09,458
produced sufficient evidence to support the charges.
913
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:14,363
We have all of these myths
about our system.
914
00:57:14,465 --> 00:57:17,232
How it works,
915
00:57:17,334 --> 00:57:20,402
the importance
of a level playing field.
916
00:57:21,872 --> 00:57:26,074
Fairness, equality before the law.
917
00:57:28,078 --> 00:57:29,611
Here you have a tangled mess
918
00:57:29,713 --> 00:57:34,616
of people all trying
to figure out
919
00:57:34,718 --> 00:57:37,252
what's real
920
00:57:37,354 --> 00:57:41,256
and what's make believe.
921
00:57:41,358 --> 00:57:46,995
What really happened versus what we think really happened.
922
00:57:50,734 --> 00:57:53,268
Why the fascination with criminal trials?
923
00:57:53,370 --> 00:57:56,805
Because it's an attempt
to grab ahold of the world,
924
00:57:56,907 --> 00:58:01,343
to figure out what's really
out there, to find truth,
925
00:58:01,445 --> 00:58:05,914
to find something that you can
grab ahold of and shake.
926
00:58:06,016 --> 00:58:07,950
After hearing the decision, captain macdonald said
927
00:58:08,052 --> 00:58:10,519
he wanted to get out of the army, start a new life.
928
00:58:10,621 --> 00:58:13,422
Macdonald (over tv): I have said, in the future, that more investigation
929
00:58:13,524 --> 00:58:15,991
will be done into certain suspects
930
00:58:16,093 --> 00:58:19,194
that were brought out by us in the hearing.
931
00:58:19,296 --> 00:58:21,530
Reporter: Do you plan to do any investigating of your own?
932
00:58:21,632 --> 00:58:23,932
Uh, no comment.
933
00:58:24,034 --> 00:58:26,134
Helena: Dear kathy,
934
00:58:26,237 --> 00:58:29,171
today on the news, I heard that they had definitely dropped
935
00:58:29,273 --> 00:58:31,607
the charges against macdonald.
936
00:58:31,709 --> 00:58:33,375
Remember how I didn't have an alibi
937
00:58:33,477 --> 00:58:35,310
for the night of the murder?
938
00:58:37,114 --> 00:58:39,214
Believe me,
939
00:58:39,316 --> 00:58:42,451
I am in deep, deep trouble.
940
00:58:43,754 --> 00:58:47,389
Love and peace. Helena.
941
00:58:52,229 --> 00:58:56,064
Captioned by
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access.Wgbh.Org
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