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Fabricio Light ~ ~
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Growing up in Staten Island
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Barbara and I heard some
times about the legend of Cropsey.
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To the neighborhood children,
Cropsey was a fugitive mentally ill.
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Who lived in the old tunnels
and abandoned Willowbrook Mental Hospital.
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He quit late at night
and took the kids on the streets.
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[Missing
7 year old is gone] b>
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Although not known each other as children in,
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Barbara and I shared versions of the legend of Cropsey, increasing our fear.
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Sometimes Cropsey had
a hook for a hand,
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In others, a bloody ax.
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But no matter,
Cropsey was out there, lurking in the darkness.
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Waiting to pick us up.
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We'll have you back.
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Later, in adolescence, we come to believe
that Cropsey was just an urban legend.
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A legend created to keep us away from those buildings,
or to prevent us from doing things that teenagers do.
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But everything changed when
small Jennifer disappeared.
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That was the summer where all the children of Staten Island
found that this urban legend
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It was real ...
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Staten Island is one of the five boroughs of New York.
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In the last century, it was basically
formed by farms and woods.
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Until built the Verrazano Bridge in 1964.
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It is now home to nearly half a million people.
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Before Varrazano bridge be built,
it was just this, this island forgotten.
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All children in Brooklyn wanted his own home, and everyone wanted to land.
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If you have a dog, you let it run
in the yard, like, "Dad knows best".
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It can be pretty quiet around here,
even with Manhattan over there,
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after water, but is defitinivamente
a different kind of life here.
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If you take a few laps, people will say:
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" Oh, yes, here it was
one of the larger dumps i> "
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and rumors that it was possible
see you there space, so ...
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A huge dump.
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It was the least populated district and full of woods.
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For all I know, like, here it is a great dumping ground for gentalhas that people used to dismiss
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type: " We'll bring them to Staten Island i>".
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It seems that there are many places to go
and be isolated, alone and do what you want.
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So if you have a bad idea in mind, you can come here and commit it.
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Near the middle of the island there is an old forest,
known as " Greenbelt i>" (green belt).
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At the edge of the forest, there is a camp
Scouts for boys and an old ward for tuberculosis.
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As children, we used
run around these sites,
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trying to scare each other
with stories about Cropsey.
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On the left there is the camp?
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No, it's the camp J. C. C.
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00:05:13,900 --> 00:05:16,800
And right here, we have the sea view.
The wings of the Sea View.
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The directors of the camps
guided in this way,
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and out of these buildings and frightened.
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You know, this is where we thought we lived Cropsey,
in the basement down here and these other buildings.
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And, well, we used to walk around and find
beds and roles of people who died here, so ...
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00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:43,500
It kind of makes sense to us.
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"Cropsey" for some reason,
It has become a generic term
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for a maniac in
camps for scouts.
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Outside the region
Hudson River in upstate New York.
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So, it makes sense to
a story about a maniac
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who hid in the forest,
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abducted and killed little children
have the name of Cropsey.
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The first time I heard about
Cropsey was at summer camp.
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He was a doctor.
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He wore a hook.
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With a huge knife this size.
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And he was an angry man
who wielded an ax.
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The wife was murdered.
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He was persecuted or mocked ...
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He wanted children, and
find, so ...
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It stung you all ...
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... Boned you.
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Do not go to the sides of Sherwood,
Cropsey is there.
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Make sure that goes down at a store,
do not continue going forward.
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Do not go to the lake at night,
Cropsey's downstairs.
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No, do not go near the park
Willowbrook. There is very dangerous.
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There are many cities with an underground history
something which inexplicavalmente things happened.
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An institution where people
They were separated from the rest of society.
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Here are photos of the hospital SeaView
From a higher angle Seaview hospital.
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Dorothy D'elleto
Archivist and Researcher
Here are photos of the hospital SeaView
From a higher angle Seaview hospital.
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00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:09,500
Here are photos of the hospital SeaView
From a higher angle Seaview hospital.
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This includes the infirmary wards
for tuberculosis.
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And also this property, there was a hospital
for contagious diseases and so has the morgue and the cemetery.
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This is across the street from the agricultural colony,
it was a different part of the hospital.
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They called her "poor farm".
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In this we are Halloran Hospital in Willowbrook.
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It is here that became the state school?
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00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:38,400
Exactly.
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Willowbrook was specific for the mentally ill?
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Yes.
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In 1972, the state school
Willowbrook hosted
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a major exhibition by a young
reporter looking for his big hole.
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Directly speak of this renowned place
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after receiving the connection
a team member of Willowbrook
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Dr. Michael Wilkens.
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00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,400
The doctor asked me to see
the conditions on which he spoke,
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so sudden and discreetly,
We visited the building number 6.
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The doctor realized myself that
the thing could be ugly.
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It was horrible ...
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There was only one employee
to about fifty children
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with profound and severe mental retardation.
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Dropped on the floor naked and wrapped
in their own feces,
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they made a noise
pitiful ...
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More like a poorly howl that
it is impossible to forget.
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00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,500
This is how it looks,
so that you can hear,
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but how can I describe to you the
smell that ravaged the place?
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Smelled of dirt, disease, smelled of death.
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Despite the terms of Geraldo
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It took over ten years to
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the authorities started
close the Willwobrook
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00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:07,100
Many patients were
groups transferred to homes
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but others were left at the mercy.
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00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:13,100
There are those who believe that
some patients
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with mixed behavior,
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headed about 1.5 kms Willowbrook, wandering in their abandoned buildings.
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And they lived in the tunnel system
which was in the underground of these buildings.
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From this, our own
Cropsey version of the legend was born.
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When did you start to realize
that "Hey, maybe Cropsey is real"?
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When children began
to fade in Staten Island.
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You are watching Channel 7,
Eyewitness News.
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00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:45,500
Hey guys, listen up. We need a
all help to find Jennifer.
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00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,000
The relentless search for a girl of 12 years,
Down syndrome,
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continues, as has been
going the last three weeks.
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hoping that today will be the day
find Jennifer Schweiger.
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She is very friendly, very happy.
She is a doll.
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Kind, you know ... like every child who has
Down's syndrome.
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Rather than lie at home, I thought
I could come and help.
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It could be any of our children who had been
kidnapped or abused.
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Maybe Jennifer has brought to
fore the vulnerability as well by
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submit Down Syndrome, or was
possibly compassion
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the residents to have a
their missing children.
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But every day, more and
more volunteers arrive,
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looking in the woods and
the streets, hoping
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to put an end to suffering
Schwieiger the family.
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Many people helped in this quest.
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Everyone felt it could have been
one of his, who disappeared.
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They arrived at the Department of
Fire with candles,
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ready to enter in Willowbrook,
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willing to enter
forest and tunnels.
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There was a particular family,
Donna Cutugno,
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and some
your friends and neighbors
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00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:08,200
who volunteered to
organize searches.
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00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:11,000
Today we will focus on
Willowbrook Park.
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The police went there yesterday and
We continue from where they stopped.
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This is what Willowbrook
It looks like when we were not here.
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00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:21,500
I will never forget the first time
I got in one of those buildings.
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It was really scary,
it was the first time
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Donna Cutugno
Founder of "Friends of Jennifer"
It was really scary,
it was the first time
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I was in those buildings
where I heard these terrible stories.
Donna Cutugno
Founder of "Friends of Jennifer"
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I was in those buildings
where I heard these terrible stories.
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And when you walk, completely
empty, you still hear you ... ... feel.
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You almost feel the presence of children there,
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or the presence of adults and ...
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It is not something that you never will
get used to.
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When they are looking for,
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have sure to check out
below ground
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and on top of the trees.
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00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:52,900
Anything they find, the police can
remove a lot of information.
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While searching,
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we see the number of people
who lived here,
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when Willowbrook worked and grew and
They tended to come back here.
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So there were a lot of people
They are living in underground
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even with closed buildings and
Andre Rand was one.
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Andre Rand worked as in charge
Willowbrook State School, 1966-1968.
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For years he lived in camps
improvised in the woods around Willowbrook.
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00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,000
It was also the prime suspect in
case of Jennifer Schweiger.
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00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,900
Suspect considered
"Weird"
It was also the prime suspect in
case of Jennifer Schweiger.
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Suspect considered
"Weird"
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There were two witnesses who claimed to have seen her
walking down the street with a middle-aged man.
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00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:37,000
Retired detectives
There were two witnesses who claimed to have seen her
walking down the street with a middle-aged man.
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00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,000
There were two witnesses who claimed to have seen her
walking down the street with a middle-aged man.
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And he had a female, green bicycle,
with a basket on the front.
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Last week I was in a store and saw Rand. I recognized another case.
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He bought baby food and was on a bicycle
female, green with a basket on the front.
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At that point I said,
"It's him, I saw him last week."
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Rand was immediately arrested and questioned about the disappearance of the girl,
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but was released for lack of evidence.
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Young still missing
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After four weeks of surveillance, hoping to find Jennifer alive,
Young still missing
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After four weeks of surveillance, hoping to find Jennifer alive,
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he was arrested.
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Rand was familiar to the poor by police
sexual behavior with a 9-year-old girl in 1969.
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Crime he denied.
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Good afternoon, let what happened.
A homeless 43, Andre Ran was arrested.
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00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,500
Accused of abducting a girl
12, Jennifer Schweiger.
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00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,300
The suspect was spotted yesterday
night here, in a church.
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00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:38,000
The police questioned him on the second day
investigations and
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00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,500
After four weeks the case against man
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00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:43,200
finally they decided they had enough to
reaching the verdict.
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00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:45,400
I've never seen a criminal walk that way.
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00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:53,200
To see him walking as if he had lost his mind,
let all the outraged community.
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00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:03,100
That image has forced many people to say "that man
is the murderer, he is not normal, looks at him, drooling ... "
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00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,000
And it certainly makes me question a lot,
who was Andre Rand?
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00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,000
They got a crazy man and
They said he was the guy
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00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,800
Or really possessed solid evidence against him that would be valid in the jury?
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00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,000
I used to teach about the history of
Andre Rand for my journalism class.
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00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,800
Former editor
I used to teach about the history of
Andre Rand for my journalism class.
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00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:21,000
Former editor
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00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,000
Down the stairs to the forum
ad "Homelessness is arrested."
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Well, what did that mean?
Means guilty, right?
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00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,000
If he really was or not,
I do not, you know,
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00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,400
I do not know the whole story, but it was
much easier to imagine everything
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00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,900
what to think, "Perai, and
is a neighbor of yours?
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00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:40,500
It may be someone with whom you work "...
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00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:44,000
Did you ever think that
there was someone else involved?
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00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,500
Well, we always had to think
there was someone else to rule out the idea.
200
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:50,500
You always have to keep
what in your mind.
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00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:55,200
And yet ... following the story of the witness,
be considered a valid witness,
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00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,300
were only Andre and Jennifer.
There was no one.
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00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,000
Of course, when we took the
first 26 hours, where was she?
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00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,200
He left with someone else?
205
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,300
With the Rand in prison, the search
By Jennifer was desperate.
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00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:16,000
Rumors spread that someone,
perhaps one of the friends of Rand,
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00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:21,000
Jennifer hid and moved with her late at night by Willowbrook tunnels.
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00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:25,000
I want my daughter.
I want that man talk.
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00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,300
I want him to say
where Jennifer is.
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00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:33,200
Despite constant warnings
to stay out of Willowbrook,
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00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,500
Donna and Jennifer's friends
They continued going there.
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00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:37,000
Commitment: search
until she is found
Donna and Jennifer's friends
They continued going there.
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00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000
Commitment: search
until she is found
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00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:38,200
This area has been checked several times
by volunteers, policemen and even dogs.
Commitment: search
until she is found
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00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,800
This area has been checked several times
by volunteers, policemen and even dogs.
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00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:49,000
But at that time, a young man passed
an area where reported seeing balls of clay,
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00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:55,400
as if someone buried
and were drawn back to the trees.
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00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,200
It was a very small point,
where he noticed the balls.
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00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,000
And this made us come back,
or have we insisted that we return.
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00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:09,300
Then George showed us
place he thought ... have to take a look.
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00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,000
The smell, so we started to dig ...
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00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,100
Hence saw their feet.
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00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:23,500
And everyone stopped.
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00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:28,500
Father Henry gave the last words.
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00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:40,000
They took in the forest.
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00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:46,000
Ernie, a difficult discovery made
last night in the town of Staten Island.
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00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000
An arm and a leg
leaving a shallow grave.
228
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000
Police and people were on the scene
229
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,500
where the body of 12 years
Jennifer Lynn Schweiger was found.
230
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:59,500
Police warned for everyone to
distance themselves from the site, even the father of Jennifer.
231
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:01,000
He was taken.
232
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,800
Yes, the father of Jennifer's here.
He is allowed to pass?
233
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,300
Unless they walk on water,
they will be on the outside.
234
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000
Two other girls were given
as missing in recent years in Staten Island.
235
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,900
They will be sought in areas
nearby the next day to see what they find.
236
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:21,600
As a police officer told us tonight.
God knows what they can find here.
237
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,000
The discovery of the body
Jennifer was about
238
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,400
140 meters of the camp
improvised Rand,
239
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,800
confirming the nightmare of all.
240
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,000
People were
angry and wanted justice.
241
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,700
The district attorney, however,
242
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:40,200
did not have physical evidence
Rand linking the disappearance of Jennifer.
243
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,800
The case had virtually
only with eyewitnesses,
244
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:48,800
something the more experienced
They knew it was not very reliable.
245
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,300
After the largest trial
criminal in the history of Staten Island,
246
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:55,500
Rand was convicted of kidnapping.
247
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,000
But the murder sentence was overturned,
after the jury could not reach a verdict.
248
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:07,000
Rand was judged to 25 years
249
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,800
and could be elected
for parole in 2008.
250
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,800
The residents of Staten Island
They like to find scapegoats.
251
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,800
But not true.
252
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,800
And we do not want to think too much about
what that might mean for our society.
253
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,800
"Island of Plunder: As the smallest
NY village has become a lost paradise "
254
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,800
When you look for a
place like Staten Island
"Island of Plunder: As the smallest
NY village has become a lost paradise "
255
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:33,000
When you look for a
place like Staten Island
256
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,000
It was regarded as a deposit
garbage of all sorts of things.
257
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,000
The landfill took over,
I received all the garbage of the city,
258
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000
Garbage eight million
players played in Staten Island.
259
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,600
The Agricultural Colony was a place
that housed people who had tuberculosis.
260
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,000
Willowbrook stored
thousands of people and left them there.
261
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,100
It really was like a dump.
262
00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:56,800
Why play in Staten Island?
263
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:57,900
Because that's where it
discard things.
264
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:01,000
You discards children, which
difference? You discard waste, discards children.
265
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,000
For Staten Island not
It makes any difference, right?
266
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,000
See.
267
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,000
Trays of the institution.
268
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,000
They are everywhere.
269
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:36,800
It's like a current that can not
be tamed by the construction or urbanization.
270
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:40,500
You put a lot of people
with mental illness together
271
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,800
a lot of
people with physical illness
272
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,400
and you bury
people here and there
273
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,000
and you discard trash
and poisons the site
274
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,700
and then sit down and
scratch your head and wonder,
275
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:53,700
"God, why're
everything going wrong? "
276
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,000
Or "Why has an atmosphere so sinister about Staten Island, such a beautiful place"
277
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,070
It is because is due to rumors and about
these things that have become evident.
278
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,000
As children, we were
deluded by the beliefs of our fathers
279
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,000
that was Staten Island
a safe place to grow up.
280
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,400
But actually all
community has a seedy side.
281
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,000
Every suburb has its secrets.
282
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,700
We only found out our
for what happened to Jennifer.
283
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,000
Then with all
the other children.
284
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,500
After Donna Cutugno
and his group found the body of Jennifer Schweiger,
285
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,500
the police began to connect the dots.
286
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:36,300
They began to look for
other missing children on Staten Island.
287
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,700
They focused on four cases
different, covering about 15 years.
288
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,700
Tiahease Jackson, a girl
10 years with learning difficulties,
289
00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,000
who disappeared
Four years before Jennifer.
290
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,400
Hank Gafforio, 21
but with IQ of a boy of 15 years,
291
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,000
He disappeared three years before Jennifer.
292
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,000
Holly Ann Hughes, 7,
who disappeared six years before Jennifer.
293
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:07,000
Finally, Alice Pereira, seen by
Last time in 1972, 15 years before Jennifer.
294
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,800
Until this day, the
Body none have been found.
295
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:19,000
They are cases of missing persons
occurred in Staten Island and have not been solved.
296
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:24,700
As children we never imagined
that we would know the true story behind Cropsey.
297
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,700
While Rand was sent
to prison, the stories were slipping away.
298
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,500
But now,
twenty years later,
299
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:37,500
perhaps we will have the chance to uncover the truth behind our urban legend.
300
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,500
Because Andre Rand is back.
301
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,000
Andre Rand scared one
generation of parents and children on Staten Island.
302
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,900
Condemned by the disappearance of a girl
in the 80s, is back on trial for kidnapping.
303
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,000
After spending 17 years in
prison, Andre Rand returned to Staten Island
304
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,000
to face trial
a girl of seven years,
305
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,400
Holly Ann Hughes, that
He disappeared two decades earlier.
306
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,000
His body was never found.
307
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,400
Can you tell us how
He met Holly Ann Hughes?
308
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,800
Any comments, please?
309
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:17,400
I love my sister very much.
It's been twenty, something I had to carry
310
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,000
For a while incredibly
long and I miss her too.
311
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,500
You know, it's nice to know that finally
it is being treated as a person
312
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:25,500
and not as a lost wallet.
313
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:29,000
This is very important,
something that has kind twenty years.
314
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:42,000
The story of another missing child, Holly Ann Hughes, seven years old, disappeared on Wednesday.
315
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000
So far, no one has any idea
of what may have happened to her.
316
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,000
She is outgoing,
friendly, very lovely, I think.
317
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,400
We just want to bring
Holly back home, please.
318
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,400
Today.
319
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:03,000
And we are looking for
for her ... and we will have it back.
320
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,000
These are Eddie, Holly Ann and Shwan.
321
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:21,000
She was a very sweet, typical girl
seven year old, kind, beautiful and fun.
322
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,500
It's probably one of the last
things you think can happen,
323
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:27,000
Holly Ann's father
It's probably one of the last
things you think can happen,
324
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,300
someone to take his daughter.
325
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:39,300
His mother and I were talking about this,
as we were going through the separation period.
326
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:42,900
I remember looking all night.
327
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:45,800
I mean, throughout
beside the train tracks,
328
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,500
Park Avenue, anywhere
I imagined she might be.
329
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:59,000
I was getting very strange links
anonymous people who knew where Holly Ann had been.
330
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Crazy things
You know, unbelievable things.
331
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,300
But nobody mentioned Andre Rand?
332
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:06,300
Do Not.
333
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:09,400
Rand was interviewed
and released back in 1981
334
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,500
after being caught in the street
Holly Ann the day of his disappearance.
335
00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:14,500
Now, twenty years later,
336
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:18,500
finally believed to have
enough evidence to reach a conclusion.
337
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:21,900
However, there was another
question that concerned residents.
338
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:24,700
Rand would be
parole in less than four years.
339
00:24:24,700 --> 00:24:28,000
What do you mean probably
it would walk the streets again.
340
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,500
We are here today supporting
family of Holly Ann Hughes.
341
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,400
The question we share with
the family is Andre Rand, accused ...
342
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,000
Mother of Jennifer
The question we share with
the family is Andre Rand, accused ...
343
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,000
The question we share with
the family is Andre Rand, accused ...
344
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,000
... Bad man.
345
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,400
It leaves enraged the fact that he
been released since the disappearance of Holly Ann?
346
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,000
I believe that, in fact,
Jennifer was that brought it all back to life.
347
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,400
Jennifer's dad
I believe that, in fact,
Jennifer was that brought it all back to life.
348
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,000
Jennifer's dad
349
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,400
There's a reason
it has been found first,
350
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,000
and have opened the case
Holly Ann Hughes.
351
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Such cases never go away.
352
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,000
It is as if the whole community
It had been thrown into chaos with it.
353
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,800
Here's the guy supposedly
walking around picking up these children.
354
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,800
I mean, you have all these rumors
that run throughout the island on this guy.
355
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,500
And the media, you know, the cast in
a terrible monster and maybe he can be the same.
356
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,000
There are no physical evidence or
scientific I know this case.
357
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,800
There bodies.
358
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:37,100
They did not find it.
359
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:39,000
It's all circumstantial.
360
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:41,100
They were, and dug all
they could. They went to his old neighborhood.
361
00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:44,000
[Defense]
They were, and dug all
they could. They went to his old neighborhood.
362
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,000
They were, and dug all
they could. They went to his old neighborhood.
363
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,000
They searched his car,
there was nothing to find,
364
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,000
then I am sure
he did not do any of this.
365
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Defense lawyer
then I am sure
he did not do any of this.
366
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,000
So why do you think the prosecutor insists in this case?
367
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,000
Mr. Murphy recently retired.
368
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,400
Defense lawyer
Mr. Murphy recently retired.
369
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,000
This was certainly one of his last and further investigations.
Defense lawyer
370
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,000
This was certainly one of his last and further investigations.
371
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Err, the Rand case, and maybe he wanted
end to this before leaving the office.
372
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:16,000
[The prosecution]
373
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:21,700
I remember the inedaquações
witness accounts of 1981 and 1982.
374
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:25,500
Lawyer District
I remember the inedaquações
witness accounts of 1981 and 1982.
375
00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:25,700
Lawyer District
376
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,600
Some of them were
involved in alcoholism,
377
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:35,400
They had no clear awareness of what
It happened from that day.
378
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:40,600
But improved to
recover their memories.
379
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:48,000
The story of Andre Rand being told is simply an example of what can be done
380
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,500
if people remain vigilant,
381
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:56,500
remain concerned
what happens around you.
382
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,000
Fifteen years after finding
the body of Jennifer Schweiger,
383
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000
Donna Cutugno continues digging the soil
384
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,400
old school
State of Willowbrook,
385
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,100
hoping to find
evidence from other children.
386
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,500
Who do you think
we looking for?
387
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:16,400
We are looking for
Holly and Alice and the other children.
388
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,400
Do you think all
They were buried here?
389
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,000
Well, I do not know about Alice. Me Me
I do not really feel she's here.
390
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,800
I do not know where she might be
but I think the rest of them,
391
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,000
including Hank
They should be here.
392
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:32,300
I can imagine how the other parents,
393
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:34,400
even if your child
has gone an hour ago
394
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,300
I can imagine
how they should feel.
395
00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:38,000
Without knowing anything.
396
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,700
Back to that primary sense,
that could be my son.
397
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,700
They are the most precious things in my life and no one will take my children from me.
398
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:48,200
- Hello!
- Hi!
399
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,200
This is the fourth of Devin.
He loves Star Wars and loves George Lucas.
400
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,000
One of my reasons
children are involved in these things
401
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,200
It is because I have
too afraid to leave them.
402
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,300
This whole thing about Rand,
assuming he comes out of this ...
403
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:04,300
He would come after me?
404
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:07,300
You know, that day ever
It was on my mind.
405
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,000
For years, Rand was undergoing
several state prisons in New York,
406
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,000
where he shared cell with
people like David Berkowitz
407
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,800
Known as "Son of Sam"
and the child killer, Joel Steinberg,
408
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,300
Weeks before he was transferred to Riker Island for the trial,
409
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:27,700
We sent letters to him,
trying to arrange an interview,
410
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:29,700
but there was no answer.
411
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:34,500
So on the day that Barbara and I decided
visit him without informing you, we received this letter.
412
00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,500
What do you think you're talking about?
413
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,500
He really does not talk to
anyone but his lawyer
414
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,000
and for years no
He spoke to the press.
415
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,500
No one really
You know nothing about it.
416
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,500
He put our number
phone at the top and wrote:
417
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:52,000
"The person who will meet
the phone must be Joshua. "
418
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,500
"If you wish to receive
Mr. Rand matches in the coming months "
419
00:28:56,500 --> 00:29:00,500
this must be done by sending the
Rand a legal address post ".
420
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:03,300
"This is not like
with matching,
421
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:05,800
but with a more
form of documentation. "
422
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,000
"Note: Rand was informed by his
lawyer to accept only legal visits. "
423
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,500
"Rand did not personally speak
with you because of a subpoena. "
424
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,000
What he means is "I will communicate
with you as long as you follow our rules. "
425
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:33,500
[Holly Trial
Ann Hughes - Day 1]
426
00:29:49,900 --> 00:29:51,900
Differently
other states,
427
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:53,900
NY does not allow
cameras in the courts.
428
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:57,400
So we were forced to interview several witnesses in the streets
429
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,400
to try some
second-hand information.
430
00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:03,800
Seventeen, and never
We stop talking about it.
431
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,000
It's something that affected everyone I know there Staten Island.
432
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Everyone knew
about Andre Rand.
433
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,000
But not all, they only in their
minds, they did not believe they could get it.
434
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,900
There is no reason it exists
elsewhere than the chain.
435
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,800
There is one huge fear, you know, the bogeyman come and pick up their children.
436
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,600
This building was where Holly
Ann Hughes used to live.
437
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,600
The Andre Rand's aunt lived in
second floor of this building also.
438
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,200
Holly was there were playing one afternoon and Andre Rand was here on a visit.
439
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:11,500
And then he got into his Volkswagen
Holly and apparently went down the street to ...
440
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:13,500
That bakery over there.
441
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,800
Holly was seen for the last
time in this bakery
442
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,000
down the street where she lives.
443
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,500
A clerk said she came at about 9:30 Wednesday night
444
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:25,000
27 cents and
bought a bar of soap.
445
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,800
She was very quiet, you know.
446
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,500
She did not say anything to anyone.
447
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:30,000
She just took it and left.
448
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,400
Really do not know
What happened after that.
449
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,900
I worked there.
450
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:34,300
The girl entered.
451
00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:35,700
- Holly Ann?
- Yes.
452
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:38,300
She came in, and when
was it? It was in 1981?
453
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:39,000
Yes, in 1981.
454
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,200
She came to buy a bar
soap and it cost 31 cents.
455
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,500
Why I remember?
Why she was missing 4 cents,
456
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,500
and the old man behind the counter
do not let anyone give her.
457
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,700
That's why I remember.
458
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,700
When I saw your photo I
I said "Oh yeah, I've seen this guy before."
459
00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:58,400
He is very quiet, introverted,
It did not seem normal.
460
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,500
I think he had a strange way of speaking, but not sure.
461
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:03,500
And no one
He disappeared in that neighborhood?
462
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:05,500
Yes, Hank Gafforio.
463
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,500
He looked like Mick Jagger.
464
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:08,500
He disappeared in that neighborhood.
465
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:10,700
- At what time?
- At the same time.
466
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:12,400
Hank was a little slow.
467
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,000
His brother swears
Andre Rand killed him.
468
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:23,500
They came to me
all these years.
469
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:25,500
This was 18 years ago.
470
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:27,000
And then they said
"We need help"?
471
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,800
Supposedly he was around
three, four o'clock in the morning with Rand.
472
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,000
A lot of people came,
many people even.
473
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,000
And again, it was more
old. And it had a lot to do with it.
474
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,000
He was 21.
475
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,400
We watched this reporter
standing in front of the Holly Ann home
476
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,400
and over his shoulder
Hank was Gafforio.
477
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,000
It was funny to see him
come from behind like that.
478
00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:00,000
There.
It's him!
479
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
- Right here?
- Yes.
480
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,800
It's quite a coincidence,
do not you think?
481
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,000
And it was as I said, before he died,
like this guy talk to me.
482
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,000
Just once.
483
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,400
And all he has to do is just
give a note to someone and say,
484
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,400
"This is where they are buried."
Just this.
485
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000
He sent us, I think ...
I think it's the view from your window.
486
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,000
- This is the decision and the judge's order ...
- About the case of Jennifer Schweiger?
487
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,700
No no no.
This is on the case of Holly Ann.
488
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:46,300
So he's basically responding to each of the witnesses in the last ...
489
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:48,700
- Testimonies, this.
- Preliminary Hearings.
490
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,600
It says "Detective Lotito asked the defense if
they saw something unusual about Holly Ann at that time "
491
00:33:54,800 --> 00:34:01,000
And the defendant said "She was very, very dirty.
Her legs were dirty, his hands were dirty. "
492
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,700
He gave her money and sent it to the market
to buy a bar of soap.
493
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,100
The court continually points to speak with Detective up charges.
494
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:13,100
The defendant never met or saw Hughes some time and neither the defendant confirmed such things.
495
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:33,100
The only witness
Today is Elsie Castro.
496
00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:36,500
She lived on the street
where Holly Ann lived.
497
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:42,000
She said on her side of the street, but a house up, there was a green Volkswagen.
498
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
She saw no one
inside the car.
499
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,400
She went to the house to take
a bath and found that there was no soap.
500
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,400
Larry interviewed Elsie Castro.
She saw nothing.
501
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:58,500
But she says she bought a bar
soap in the store and lacked 5 cents.
502
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:05,900
It's quite a coincidence that she lacked money
when Holly Ann also lacked money
503
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,400
All during the interval
time of about one hour.
504
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,400
So you think the other
witnesses were mistaken?
505
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,400
I do not know.
506
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,300
And if what they said I did not even know the jury
know, it is subject to doubt.
507
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:18,300
This is the car Elsie.
508
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:20,000
- Elsie Castro?
- This.
509
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,000
Here, children always
They passed here.
510
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,400
- In this corner? And where was the exact point they
They believe she was kidnapped?
511
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,000
Well, that's something else.
I'm not sure, I see.
512
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:32,800
A Volkswagen.
513
00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:35,800
He turned to see
what was happening.
514
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:45,500
All crimes that we saw, which we turn to him, happened in July except for Tiahease.
515
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:48,400
This was Tiahease.
Aunt.
516
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,200
She lived with her mother and I believe had four brothers.
517
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:07,300
And they were all
in one room in the Conca D'Oro.
518
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:09,700
Community was a hotel at that time.
519
00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:16,400
It was a day of August and the older brother left Tiahease talking to a man.
520
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,500
The man was described as
someone who looked like Andre.
521
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,200
She was never seen again.
522
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:26,500
The evidence is the bodies.
523
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:31,400
I'm sure, buried somewhere, he has the evidence.
524
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,400
Just do not find in the woods yet.
525
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,000
Come on, sniff.
What do you think kid?
526
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,600
Donna is looking for a temporary camps Rand Louis Rivera.
527
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:46,800
A retired police officer who helped in the search for Jennifer on the day she disappeared.
528
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,500
Find the body.
529
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:53,800
Find the body, sniff.
530
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,000
A body that met my dog was buried 22 years ago.
531
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:05,000
Then chances are, it's just a matter of searching,
532
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,100
focus on small areas at a time.
533
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,300
Let's boy, sniff.
534
00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:14,300
Find the body, boy.
535
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,800
Where do you think
most children are?
536
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:19,800
It's hard to say.
537
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,800
They are buried ...
Somewhere in Staten Island.
538
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,100
Detective Frank Saez was
one of leading professional
539
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:29,100
in case the type of
missing children in New York.
540
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:31,900
Well, he could
come and say "Listen"
541
00:37:31,900 --> 00:37:35,300
someday,
"I will give the bodies"
542
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:39,400
And take you to the place and you could impinge upon where they are.
543
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,400
If you look around, you can see the perimeter of this area and here was one of their camps.
544
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:54,000
Here you do not have a toilet or anything mounted
like the Willowbrook.
545
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,000
But children said
I could see him sitting here.
546
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,400
So it was here that he lived
Durantes the warmer months.
547
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,500
Come on,
sniff boy.
548
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:12,200
They say the death of a child is
the worst kind of crime that anyone can imagine.
549
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,000
Certainly.
550
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,000
But the disappearance
a child is even worse.
551
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:23,000
Because if your child dies and you bury,
at least you have a place where you can go.
552
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,200
When your child disappears,
and you do not know where he is,
553
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:35,000
for parents, the child is never dead until
a police bring them what's left of it.
554
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,400
Someone used this area here.
555
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:43,200
See? When you
find things like objects or clothing
556
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,700
As this child shoe, shampoo, Tape ...
557
00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:54,500
Louis.
Come back here.
558
00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:58,800
So we have shoes, tape
and notice the how cute the soil is ...
559
00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:05,200
're Cute even.
This, smell.
560
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:10,800
Cave, boy.
561
00:39:13,900 --> 00:39:18,000
Are areas like this that we can dig, just to see, since they seem mum little suspicious.
562
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,000
You never know.
563
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:25,400
Hughes trial
Week 2
564
00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:31,400
This officer keeps saying all
morning, on the bus, which is said Rand innocent,
565
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,400
And they did not do any of that.
566
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:41,000
And the official says "Consider a martyr
for the safety of children, this is what you are. "
567
00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:47,000
The brother of Holly Ann,
Ed Armstrong, testified today.
568
00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:51,800
He was 14 when he saw his
sister for the last time on the day she disappeared.
569
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:55,500
Since then, he became lieutenant
the NY Police Department.
570
00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:59,000
He was also instrumental in bringing this case to trial.
571
00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:02,600
If he still has
humanity in their souls,
572
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,400
maybe he realizes that
there is an error on your way
573
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,500
And I could forgive him if he in
give back what was left of my sister.
574
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:12,600
And this is all I ever wanted.
575
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,400
I do not care if he had one more day in his ruling ...
576
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,000
All I want
It is what's left of my sister.
577
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:20,800
And if he has any
thing of it, he will do it for us.
578
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,900
This is Holly Ann ...
579
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:30,000
Were you involved
in all these searches?
580
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,500
Ah yes!
581
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,700
For how long
you believe that sought?
582
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,800
3 years.
583
00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:44,000
"The unlucky seven will surface"?
584
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,200
Rushan was his name.
U-S-R-H-A-N.
585
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,800
He moved to Rand
so Jennifer disappeared.
586
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,800
Do you believe that there
some credit the idea that
587
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,400
Jennifer may be
buried in the camping area?
588
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,300
They found
his head down.
589
00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:05,000
I think, and the blood was on his feet,
as if she had been repositioned.
590
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:07,000
So who do you think ...
591
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:10,000
This is why I thought maybe they would have others involved.
592
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,300
Rumors about children
missing were overwhelming.
593
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,200
Some believe
Rand did not act alone
594
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,200
He had
help other homeless.
595
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,200
Or any
Willowbrook patient.
596
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,700
Others think he was framed,
and the real killer was still out there.
597
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,800
The only person who
I knew the truth was the Rand itself.
598
00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:36,000
For weeks, we exchanged letters on
hope we get an interview.
599
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,000
But Rand refused
to give us any information.
600
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,000
He felt that all the unwanted attention
would expose the nature of their crimes suspects
601
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,000
to his teammates and put
his life in danger.
602
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,700
A video interview while incarcerated
It would be like instigating violence
603
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,200
and acts of jealousy over the
my life caused by the press.
604
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,800
Since Rand
I would not talk with us,
605
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,800
We had to follow any track,
606
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,200
finding anyone who could
learn more about his past.
607
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,200
Hello, I'm looking for
Freer by Richard. He lives here?
608
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,000
He does not live? I thought we lived,
he does not live here then?
609
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,100
He lived?
610
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,200
Who are these?
611
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,200
All the people
who knew Rand.
612
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,200
- How did they know?
- Through Donna notes.
613
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,800
They said, you know,
"Rand friend, Known Rand"
614
00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:25,300
Does not recognize
none of these names?
615
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,900
- And Willy died.
- Ah yes.
616
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:30,100
Some Thomas live here?
617
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:36,000
I was about six, seven years. And we were all out there playing on the court,
618
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,000
The guy came type
"Cs want to go on a trip?"
619
00:42:39,100 --> 00:42:42,300
It is right here, the YMCA.
He had a bus right here.
620
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,800
It was well parked
here, I will never forget.
621
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,700
All we climbed on the bus. Not seen evil, were all children, you know?
622
00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:53,300
He said he would only take us to the park. We ended up at Newark Airport.
623
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,500
Then after that, he took us
to a park, it was very dark.
624
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:00,500
I think it was in Willowbrook
park at that time.
625
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:04,000
Total darkness, all running around
playing hide and seek and everything.
626
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:09,900
When we realized we were being kidnapped and had no idea what was going on.
627
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:14,700
I think he wanted to do something that does not
would end and I think the penny dropped from
628
00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:17,800
"I can not do it this
way, Let me pull myself together. "
629
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,200
And I think that's what he did,
type "let me work with my fangs"
630
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,200
And this is what he did.
631
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:27,300
While some residents were convinced that Rand was guilty,
632
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:29,000
Others were not so sure.
633
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,900
Excuse? You
They know some Thomas Mickle?
634
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:33,900
- I'm me.
- Oh, hi!
635
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:35,300
I worked with Andre Rand.
636
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:37,300
- Can we talk to you for a minute?
- Clear!
637
00:43:37,300 --> 00:43:39,300
They say he was fully
framed in it.
638
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:43,700
Who combed that
area with a fine tooth comb.
639
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,800
Once arrested Andre Rand,
640
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,800
They tried again and then the body
I was there, easy to find.
641
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,100
So, you know ...
Maybe he really did not do it.
642
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:59,500
- Maybe.
- Someone who has moved the body there
to frame it.
643
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,200
I think they were just trying to
frame someone and they will blame him.
644
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:11,200
Because he was lonely and had
this looks kind of scary.
645
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,800
Looking at old files crossed
named Bob Graham.
646
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:20,500
The notes indicated that he met Rand just before being suspected the disappearance of Jennifer.
647
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,100
He worked briefly in a franchise
of hamburgers on Forrest Avenue, called Westie's.
648
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:30,100
And then we used to race in the 60,
early '70s, we used to hide there.
649
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,300
He wore that hat paper and was sweeping the parking lot.
650
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,200
Or behind the counter
placing the cheese sandwiches.
651
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:43,600
And he had this Volkswagen that I realized
I was in the woods right behind Willowbrook.
652
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,600
He was living in the car,
there was a way there ...
653
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,900
And I heard things about the tunnel network
under the state school of Willowbrook.
654
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:53,200
It was armed with multiple segments.
655
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,400
You could leave the
cafeteria gardens.
656
00:44:56,500 --> 00:44:59,300
He could survive down there
He had worked there since.
657
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:03,300
- Then there were other people living in the forest?
- There were several, was not just him.
658
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:04,900
I had many people living there.
659
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:06,900
There's something here.
660
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,400
See, I find it
it he was talking about.
661
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,200
It has a tunnel,
down all the way
662
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:16,500
It is a city under the city.
663
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:23,000
Among the rats and sewage system that was passing by, and dirty clothes ...
664
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,000
- Shelves of clothing, cribs ...
- Shelves!
665
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:29,900
- It's an old wheelchair.
- This is very strange.
666
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:36,800
Certainly men, women and children
They lived there, including Andre Rand.
667
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:39,600
Yes, he had his little
circle of friends there.
668
00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:44,000
Look, there's a lot of these holes and all
They are well cleaned for living here.
669
00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:47,500
Note the ground.
It was totally clean.
670
00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:55,500
Andre Rand had this thing about the lower classes, a white version of Jim Jones *
(* See Youtube: Jonestown).
671
00:45:56,500 --> 00:46:01,300
Somehow, he could do
that people follow him.
672
00:46:01,300 --> 00:46:04,000
- Who were these people?
- Well, he had other homeless.
673
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:08,300
Someone was living here.
674
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:11,300
Soup cream
mushrooms, dirty dishes ...
675
00:46:12,300 --> 00:46:13,300
Flowers ...
676
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:20,300
I remember that one day we find a
mattress with Prestobarba and toothpaste ...
677
00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:24,000
And men's clothing with
a pair of children's underwear.
678
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,400
I think he spent his
children to their friends ...
679
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,000
That were so
sick as he is.
680
00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:37,500
- Do you think that Rand was the one responsible?
- The murder of Jennifer?
681
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:41,700
No, I do not think he
has done everything alone.
682
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:43,700
They told us
lot of strange stories.
683
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:47,300
They told us strange things about Andre
that we could not prove or disprove.
684
00:46:47,300 --> 00:46:52,400
The kind he had sex with people
dead, was a story, have you heard or not.
685
00:46:53,000 --> 00:47:00,000
What Andre was used to take bodies
the dead in the cemetery and have sex with them.
686
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,400
You thought it strange
that sort of thing in Staten Island?
687
00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:10,500
I would never have guessed that there was a
lot of weird living in my Staten Island.
688
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,200
Why people do not
They were warned by the things that happened here?
689
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:19,200
For those
remotely knew Andre Rand
690
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,200
He was a complete mystery.
691
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,500
The more we tried to know about it,
692
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:26,100
More bizarre the story was.
693
00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:34,000
It was getting hard to tell
the difference between fact and legend.
694
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,300
Trial
Week 3
695
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:54,500
In what looked like a
replay of the first judgment of Rand,
696
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,500
The charge again was based
on eyewitnesses to prove the case.
697
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:06,600
Some who witnessed
were alcoholics or addicts,
698
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,300
They say now able to recall the details
that night more than twenty years ago.
699
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:22,500
Burns changed his story a few times,
basically he was drinking when he saw Holly Ann
700
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:24,800
He sees Rand talking to Holly Ann
701
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,400
He was the first witness
He made the connection between Rand and Holly Ann.
702
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,400
- So these 17 years he never spoke?
-. This is not an important part of the problem.
703
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,400
It is a key.
He never ruled.
704
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,400
Other witnesses may have provided
only the vaguest details on their reports.
705
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,000
- What was he like?
- You would not want to meet him.
706
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,800
Martha Hinton
Witness
- What was he like?
- You would not want to meet him.
707
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:44,500
Martha Hinton
Witness
708
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:46,000
- He was a stranger.
- Why?
Martha Hinton
Witness
709
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:46,500
- He was a stranger.
- Why?
710
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,500
Because it seemed
as his killer.
711
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:53,300
I said what I had
to say and it was just that.
712
00:48:53,300 --> 00:48:55,300
Did you see anything in
night that Holly Ann disappeared?
713
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:58,000
Yes, I heard her scream and
I heard her say, "Let me go!".
714
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:03,700
There have been omitted persons
information that we find nowadays ...
715
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:07,400
- As drug addicts, drug dealers.
716
00:49:07,700 --> 00:49:09,400
Fact that you needed?
717
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,900
Needed him have it
placed within the car.
718
00:49:12,100 --> 00:49:13,800
Put it in the car?
719
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,700
And you had no
witness who saw him put it in the car?
720
00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:16,500
Not at the time.
721
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,900
He came out of that little car
Green and asked us if we wanted bullet.
722
00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:22,000
She went to pick up, put his arm in the car
when he opened the door and was the last time I saw her.
723
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,500
Tanya Goodson
Witness
She went to pick up, put his arm in the car
when he opened the door and was the last time I saw her.
724
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:25,700
Tanya Goodson
Witness
725
00:49:26,100 --> 00:49:29,700
In a surprising turn of events,
Tanya Goodsen was called to his testimony.
726
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:30,000
Friend Holly Ann says:
Masked man took
727
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,700
Holly Ann-worker
I was 6 years old at the time,
Friend Holly Ann says:
Masked man took
728
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:32,300
Holly Ann-worker
I was 6 years old at the time,
729
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:35,500
Tanya testified that he saw
Rand wearing a mask
730
00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:38,400
And holding some candy,
Holly Ann putting inside your car.
731
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:41,300
Well, when you say
he took Holly Ann
732
00:49:41,300 --> 00:49:43,300
He was wearing a
mask. Tell me more about this.
733
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,300
I do not remember the mask,
734
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,000
All I know is that his face
was covered, I could not see his face.
735
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:50,300
So it may be that
It was not a mask,
736
00:49:50,300 --> 00:49:52,300
Maybe he
downloaded the head or ...
737
00:49:52,300 --> 00:49:54,000
No, your face
whole was covered.
738
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:56,000
But when you
I said "You want candy?"
739
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,500
he looked scary,
the way you spoke?
740
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,000
He looked very scary.
741
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,500
You knew Jennifer and
Also Holly Ann.
742
00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:06,300
Yes, I knew
several of which he kidnapped.
743
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:11,000
- Did you know Hank Gafforio?
- This does not, but he knew Latisha.
744
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,000
Tiahease. Tiahease Jackson.
- Yes.
745
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,400
All these people you met,
growing up in Staten Island, disappeared.
746
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,400
- What do you think of this?
- I do not think anything because I was too young.
747
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,800
And now that I'm older, I came here to do what I should do
748
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,000
And I feel much better now.
749
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,300
- Mr Rand, what you have to say
for the people of Staten Island?
750
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:40,100
They perpetuated a fraud.
751
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,400
- 675 Street Tyson.
- Yes, this is it.
752
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:12,900
30 years ago.
753
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,700
- Alice lived here with ...?
- With her mother.
754
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:25,000
Rita Dimartino
Aunt Alice Pereira
- Alice lived here with ...?
- With her mother.
755
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,000
Who had multiple sclerosis,
Rita Dimartino
Aunt Alice Pereira
756
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:27,300
was about
26 years at the time.
Rita Dimartino
Aunt Alice Pereira
757
00:51:27,300 --> 00:51:29,600
was about
26 years at the time.
758
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:34,900
And of course, Andre Rand
He was right there all the time.
759
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,400
Right there where is that
door, and he was the caretaker here.
760
00:51:38,900 --> 00:51:40,600
And at that time,
where the father was?
761
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,800
They were separated. There were about
3 years who were separated.
762
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:44,400
And that's why the detectives thought that the father could have picked up the child,
763
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,400
Alice alive
in Puerto Rico?
And that's why the detectives thought that the father could have picked up the child,
764
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:48,600
Another zero in the search
for missing girl
And that's why the detectives thought that the father could have picked up the child,
765
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:48,800
Another zero in the search
for missing girl
766
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,400
then not focused on the fact that the child has been abducted by some depraved.
Another zero in the search
for missing girl
767
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:52,600
Another zero in the search
for missing girl
768
00:52:02,500 --> 00:52:04,500
We just want the
closing it, just that.
769
00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:07,300
Of course.
770
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,300
It's been so long.
771
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,000
It seems that every
world has already forgotten.
772
00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:21,500
He sent us a photo
their identity in Riker Island.
773
00:52:22,300 --> 00:52:26,000
"Dear Barbara, you know I can not
answer some of your questions now.
774
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,600
The documentary
you put such faith
775
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,700
It never works as evidence in my defense in my book.
776
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:36,500
His intention is good, but more
later other filmmakers
777
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:38,100
depart from where you stopped.
778
00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:40,500
While in prison,
I will give to these producers
779
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:42,700
reasons for me
treat it as a bad person.
780
00:52:42,700 --> 00:52:44,700
You know,
wickedness sell.
781
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:46,700
This is how they play. "
782
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,600
Rand was right.
783
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,400
Wickedness, not the facts, it was
forcing this trial.
784
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,400
But then the coincidences
They could not be ignored.
785
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,600
We knew we would have
to get an interview.
786
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,000
But now, in turn, the Rand
asked to prove his innocence.
787
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,300
"Barbara, write me
exact list of issues
788
00:53:04,300 --> 00:53:07,300
or discussions will you do to me during the documentary. "
789
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,400
This is the road I
I think he took Holly Ann.
790
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:17,400
All evidence leads us here, very close to the Baron Hirsch.
791
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,600
Jack Whitford - Patrol
Civil observation Stapleton
All evidence leads us here, very close to the Baron Hirsch.
792
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,800
He had a tent here.
793
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:25,000
We believed that was his.
794
00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:29,000
It can be
some of these graves here.
795
00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:31,300
If he had one foot
goat or something,
796
00:53:31,300 --> 00:53:32,800
he could have
the cover removed
797
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,000
the body placed
along the other dead,
798
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,200
and closed it again,
no one would ever find out.
799
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:38,800
- You have a lot of it loose.
- Yes.
800
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:40,800
It has a body here,
Right below.
801
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,800
I do not know how
background buried them.
802
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,300
They are all children.
803
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:48,000
At the beginning, we
thinking that maybe
804
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,000
he had them to be sold
used in rituals or things like that.
805
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:53,300
Seriously?
806
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,300
- Do you think definitivamente-
- I would not doubt it.
807
00:53:57,300 --> 00:54:00,000
I mean, what makes you think
this could have happened?
808
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,300
Well, Sam's son was there and this leads us to the story of rituals.
809
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:10,600
I do not think that just because someone thought about it twenty years ago today do not know, but ...
810
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,600
They still think about it.
811
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,000
Andre was involved
satanic ritual
812
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,000
and being native of Staten Island
813
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,300
I really could not
believe how much this ...
814
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,300
how big was it in State Island.
815
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,700
We were in an establishment,
where the basement was organized, like,
816
00:54:40,700 --> 00:54:43,000
kind of like something
They might call church.
817
00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:45,400
And they used
celebrate their ceremonies.
818
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,200
In fact, it was the
Land of Willowbrook School.
819
00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:52,000
So you do not think you may have been some kids, like ...
820
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,600
Definitely not. Not even. I think they were adults.
821
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,000
Where they could
do their ceremonies.
822
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,800
I believe Andre Rand and
the gang were part of it.
823
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:03,400
If began with the thing,
or not, were part of it.
824
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:07,100
It's hard for us to believe but,
if you have to convince someone,
825
00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:09,500
that was real,
Indeed, what would you say?
826
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:17,000
I would say ... take some of their
friends, sit down and talk to them.
827
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:21,200
And then the conversation, you
would realize how serious the situation is.
828
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:25,500
Once I was invited to
room to talk to them,
829
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:30,000
when reminded of me, and started
tell me about devil worship in Staten Island.
830
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Perhaps he was part of worship and I do not believe it.
831
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,500
What these people believed
What was happening?
832
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:39,200
That maybe some of these devil worshipers
had links with the missing children.
833
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,000
You can not paint parallels with things and say "Oh yeah".
834
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:49,500
You know, I can take a picture of anyone, right? And I can tell
835
00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:52,300
"This guy is a mass murderer"
836
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:57,100
hence they say
"Yes, it is, for sure."
837
00:55:57,100 --> 00:56:02,500
Or I can say, "This guy rescued
six people from a burning building "
838
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:05,400
"I am sure that
he's a good man. "
839
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,800
In addition to the police investigation,
840
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,100
other evidence of cult activities
They were sent to Jennifer's family.
841
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,900
A mysterious letter claimed that Rand
provided children for the "Church of the Process"
842
00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:39,400
The same cult that David Berkowitz says
helping him to commit crimes (Son of Sam - Son of Sam Murders)
843
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,400
This anonymous letter was traced
Veronica Lueken,
844
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,100
A local woman
followed their own religion.
845
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,300
Basically, this
right back here group
846
00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:52,300
They wrote these
letters of 10.04.87
847
00:56:52,300 --> 00:56:54,700
which are then months
the disappearance of Jennifer.
848
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:57,000
"I thought of writing this letter to try to clarify to you
849
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:58,600
and simultaneously remind them
850
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,000
about the crimes
They are being allowed on the island.
851
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,500
I checked the recent disappearances
and the murders of these children
852
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:07,700
and it seems that some of them were victims of what he calls Satanic Black Mass.
853
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:10,500
Andre Rand did not kill Jennifer.
854
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:13,000
All that did was
bring it to the brotherhood.
855
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,900
It's a shame that they
have covered this,
856
00:57:14,900 --> 00:57:17,400
but who wants to admit that Staten Island
You are literally going to hell?
857
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,000
It is a plot of
picnic for them.
858
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,200
There are buried bodies
you will never find. "
859
00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:30,300
We can talk to
you for a minute?
860
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,300
Can you tell me a
summary of what you said?
861
00:57:33,300 --> 00:57:36,500
Veronica had visions about
human sacrifices in a table
862
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:39,900
and these priests
Satanic sticking knives into it.
863
00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:43,000
- Do you believe this is really happening?
- Yes for sure.
864
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,400
You know, they go to the forest ...
865
00:57:45,700 --> 00:57:49,000
- It would be great if you
speak on behalf of your organization-
- For my safety, not
I want to be filmed.
866
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,800
- What if we only record audio?
- It's all right.
867
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,000
Since you are
worried about them ...
868
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,800
I'm worried about the satânicos- priests
Veronica was on a hit list.
869
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,500
She came up with all this knowledge
they do not want her to have.
870
00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,600
They do not want to be
recognized or exposed.
871
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,900
- So you believe they are
around, around us?
- Yes!
872
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,100
This is the transcription
an interview
873
00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:11,000
that detectives did with Andre Rand
in 1998 when he was at Sing Sing.
874
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:17,900
In the first half hour they
argue about devil worship.
875
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,300
"So you were in a tent
when he told you could
876
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:23,600
It is occurring activities
Satanic in Willowbrook.
877
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,400
Now, in 1987, did you hear about this service
working near the neighborhood,
878
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,100
with human sacrifices ...
879
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:32,200
you did not get to say 'maybe
they are the ones who took the little girl '?
880
00:58:32,300 --> 00:58:33,500
It crossed your mind? "
881
00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:35,800
When you were
in Sing Sing for 98
882
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,600
You talked to him on numerous
things about devil worship.
883
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,800
Well ...
884
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:46,200
It was something that seemed to have to do.
885
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:55,000
But as I said, we found
nothing linking Andre that kind of people.
886
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000
There was something called "The Church of the Process" years ago
887
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,000
that was heavily
linked to satanic cults
888
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,300
and the founder of that
Church lived in Staten Island.
889
00:59:05,500 --> 00:59:07,300
And he lived here for a long time.
890
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:12,600
Yeah, I mean, he was no longer on active duty? What do you know about it?
891
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,400
No he is not. Supposedly
it is no longer active.
892
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,600
- He came to deny or element
- I never interviewed ...
893
00:59:21,300 --> 00:59:24,000
There were satanic rituals?
People who practiced it?
894
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,000
Of course yes.
895
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:28,700
But it's something that was
in the dead ...
896
00:59:28,700 --> 00:59:33,000
something that very few
departments investigated.
897
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,000
Devil worship
It is devil worship.
898
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,800
It's like being a Catholic.
Do you believe in God and Jesus.
899
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,800
They believe in the devil.
900
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,800
Have you been to
houses or in the woods?
901
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,500
They could be in homes, or
They could be in the forest.
902
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,600
Have you been in mental hospitals
abandoned?
903
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:56,400
They can be used for such a ...
904
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,000
And they used children?
905
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,000
I prefer not to answer it.
906
01:00:07,900 --> 01:00:14,000
Basically, this is the area
known as the Agricultural Colony,
907
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:20,000
and it is here that said that worship
the devil and those things that were going on.
908
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,000
I'm not saying
there's nothing here.
909
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,600
Maybe it's just the
imagination of people.
910
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,600
Well, it's scary because you do not know who could be here ...
911
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,900
but no
devil worshipers.
912
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:43,100
There are some crosses on the walls
the building, all the way.
913
01:00:43,300 --> 01:00:45,600
- We should go there.
- Let's take a look.
914
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:49,600
Building "A".
915
01:00:49,900 --> 01:00:51,900
BarbaraM you want to go?
Lets go in.
916
01:00:51,900 --> 01:00:54,900
- No, I will not go there.
- But we can not see anything
if we do not enter.
917
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:56,900
I do not .. we ...
I will not go ...
918
01:00:56,900 --> 01:00:59,300
We were in there
during the day, I will not go.
919
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:01,300
Are you afraid?
920
01:01:01,300 --> 01:01:03,500
We do not even know if ...
I will not go.
921
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,500
I'll.
922
01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:09,500
What the fuck
I'm doing here?
923
01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:21,300
My God!
924
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,300
Sorry, I left
the lantern fall.
925
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:27,100
It was the flashlight, I
sorry. It was an accident.
926
01:01:32,700 --> 01:01:34,700
You know what,
not'm order to stay here.
927
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:39,200
What?
928
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,500
- You heard?
- Yes.
929
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:49,200
They're coming?
930
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,200
God of heaven !!
931
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,000
- Why you are here tonight?
- We hear stories.
932
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,500
Just wanted
know what it was, and such.
933
01:02:09,500 --> 01:02:11,000
What do you think
You will find here?
934
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,900
People who died here ...
Supposedly, it was to have ghosts.
935
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,900
Scouring the Agricultural Colony,
936
01:02:14,900 --> 01:02:18,200
all we found were
scaring each other young forest,
937
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,900
just like
we did twenty years ago ...
938
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,500
- Do you believe that there are
Devil worshipers here?
- Ah yes.
939
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,000
There were people who said that they were
making bizarre experiments and stuff.
940
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,000
What makes us come here?
941
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,000
What makes us
believe in these stories?
942
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,000
Is there
some truth in all this?
943
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,300
You've heard about children
missing here in Staten Island?
944
01:02:35,300 --> 01:02:36,800
Why? You
They are here for this?
945
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,600
They found a girl,
Jennifer Schweiger,
946
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,000
buried in the ground
the Willowbrook asylum.
947
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,000
I remember my mother
saying something about it.
948
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,000
She had some delay?
949
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:50,000
Perhaps, someone's killing a reality
child is too much for people cope.
950
01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:53,900
So, we built our
own monsters.
951
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:05,400
He is not going to testify,
I am very disappointed to say.
952
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,000
Rand, kidnapper, not
will position
He is not going to testify,
I am very disappointed to say.
953
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:09,900
Rand, kidnapper, not
will position
954
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:11,900
He seemed to be wanting
disseminate information.
955
01:03:11,900 --> 01:03:13,900
Of course, not necessarily
confess something,
956
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:15,900
but certainly he was
very impatient.
957
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:20,800
And this seemed a good sign to the people
who want to get information from them.
958
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,000
He is angry that he did not
giving testimony?
959
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,800
It would have been interesting because
We never even heard him speak.
960
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,800
So it's very difficult to have
some feeling about a person
961
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:35,700
you do not know.
962
01:03:35,700 --> 01:03:37,000
You do not even know
as is their voice.
963
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,000
- How do you not put Andre to testify?
964
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:41,600
Andre does not have much to add.
965
01:03:44,900 --> 01:03:46,000
And he has a criminal record.
966
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:50,300
And a criminal record
could distract this case.
967
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,000
The jury will deliver
case on Monday
968
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:58,000
and, if convicted, could face an addition Ran
25 years to the time when it is already sentenced.
969
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,000
Staten Island, Amanda
Ferinacci, New York One.
970
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:15,800
Rand was upset for not having given the
testimony and wanted a chance to defend himself.
971
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,400
After months writing letters, he
finally he agreed to give us an interview.
972
01:04:21,900 --> 01:04:24,400
It was time to confront
Rand face to face.
973
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,400
For answers
once and for all.
974
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,800
He did the same with me.
975
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,000
After that interview
Initial we had with him
976
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:11,000
we write to
he came back and he said
977
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,600
"Sure, no problem, go back
and we'll talk again,
978
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,600
But you should
come to my house. "
979
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,500
"I can not move.
980
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,000
I will not speak with you unless
I come to see me at my house. "
981
01:05:22,300 --> 01:05:24,000
And we went there ...
982
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:29,000
He said the jailer "I changed
your mind, do not want to talk to them. "
983
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,000
He will not talk to us.
984
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,000
We're coming home.
985
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,300
It's a game to him.
986
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,000
For me, it is a
very smart guy.
987
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,800
He knew how to commit
crime and not get caught.
988
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:53,800
And as he told me,
989
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,800
"Why do not you
They found the real killer? "
990
01:05:59,900 --> 01:06:03,700
"It was their sins that made him hide his face so he will not hear you.
991
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:06,700
His hands are divorced covered in blood,
his fingers full of guilt,
992
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:10,000
his lips express falsehood and his tongue speaketh lies. "
993
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:16,000
Josh and I decided to postpone the answer
the Rand after his most recent letters.
994
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,300
They were each
increasingly bizarre.
995
01:06:19,900 --> 01:06:22,300
His handwriting had changed.
996
01:06:22,900 --> 01:06:25,000
And now he quoted
Bible verses.
997
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,200
"No one pleads their cause with justice,
nobody does defense with integrity
998
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:30,500
They are supported by arguments
empty and speak lies
999
01:06:30,500 --> 01:06:33,300
They conceive mischief
and generate lawlessness.
1000
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:36,600
Hatch snake eggs
and weave spider webs.
1001
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:41,000
Anyone who eats their eggs dies,
and a crushed egg comes out a viper. "
1002
01:06:41,900 --> 01:06:44,400
"My position on
beliefs of sexual deviations.
1003
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,400
Children are emo-
finally worn,
1004
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,200
And the place is littered with
all these broken lives. "
1005
01:06:49,700 --> 01:06:51,200
Why he continues
focusing on women?
1006
01:06:51,900 --> 01:06:54,100
Does he see any
thing as a kid?
1007
01:06:54,100 --> 01:06:57,600
I mean, no one really knows
nothing about his childhood.
1008
01:06:58,100 --> 01:06:59,900
We ship the cards
for you, we have all.
1009
01:06:59,900 --> 01:07:02,800
Talk about, well, your
father died in 1958 ...
1010
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:04,800
- When he was 14 ...
- When he was 14 years old.
1011
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,400
His mother was in the Pilgrim
I was told by the State.
1012
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:15,400
Pilgrim State was built exactly following the model of Willowbrook.
1013
01:07:16,100 --> 01:07:18,300
They even ...
the same purpose?
1014
01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:20,800
Same purpose,
same type of building
1015
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,500
Same system of tunnels,
Even kitchens system.
1016
01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:31,200
Rand wrote in her letters that her mother was
committed asylum Pilgrim State in Long Island.
1017
01:07:31,900 --> 01:07:34,200
In his teens, he
visited frequently.
1018
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:38,900
With a population that
It surpassed the 13,000 residents
1019
01:07:38,900 --> 01:07:42,500
Pilgrim State is the most
mental institution in the world,
1020
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:45,500
much like
in Willowbrook.
1021
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,500
This new connection
Family Rand
1022
01:07:49,500 --> 01:07:51,300
something that was not
We could ignore.
1023
01:07:51,300 --> 01:07:53,300
We tried several times to enter
in contact with a woman
1024
01:07:53,300 --> 01:07:55,300
we think
be sister Rand.
1025
01:07:55,300 --> 01:07:58,200
Excuse? We Are
making a documentary,
1026
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,900
and we would
talk to you about ...
1027
01:08:00,900 --> 01:08:02,900
I think it is your
brother, Andre Rand?
1028
01:08:02,900 --> 01:08:06,400
The only contact I ever had with him
It was when he needed me.
1029
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:08,400
I know nothing about his life.
1030
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,000
If he did or did not some
thing, I could not tell you.
1031
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:16,900
Something happened in your life that you
He believes that led him down the wrong path?
1032
01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:20,300
I've been asked this: You were abused when they were children?
1033
01:08:20,300 --> 01:08:22,500
They were molested?
And no, we were not.
1034
01:08:22,700 --> 01:08:24,900
My mother always had emotional problems.
1035
01:08:24,900 --> 01:08:27,400
It was not a bad mother. She had problems.
1036
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:30,400
But thus we were not abused.
Not apanhávamos.
1037
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:32,400
We're not trying to do
that no one should confess something.
1038
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:34,800
- No, it's just for "Why?"
It's like giving us alguma-
1039
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:36,800
Try to understand why.
1040
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,100
I tried it for years, and never
I could understand.
1041
01:08:39,300 --> 01:08:42,000
No replies to this,
and I do not believe there is any.
1042
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:47,500
I can tell you something, my opinion?
I think you two are being manipulated by him.
1043
01:08:58,500 --> 01:09:01,300
Received Friday,
June 20.
1044
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,900
Hello? Joshua Zeman?
Here is Andre Rand. I>
1045
01:09:04,900 --> 01:09:07,400
I wonder if you
I received my letter. i>
1046
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,000
It's been two weeks now. I>
1047
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,000
And you have not answered me yet. I>
1048
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,000
You still feel that they did not
enough at that time?
1049
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,800
I do not ... I do not, I think it all worked but did not think it was properly coordinated.
1050
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,000
I mean, there's so much
surfacing I did not know.
1051
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,900
And here they are,
and if they do not follow,
1052
01:09:43,900 --> 01:09:45,300
I would not be here today.
1053
01:09:45,300 --> 01:09:47,300
It would have been established
23 years ago.
1054
01:09:47,300 --> 01:09:49,200
You believe it
You are damned?
1055
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,000
Not with this evidence,
it is not believable.
1056
01:09:52,100 --> 01:09:55,500
You have 12 people and some
of them get stuck on some things
1057
01:09:55,500 --> 01:09:58,100
and believe
he is guilty or not.
1058
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,600
The issue of innocence or
culprit is far more fundamental.
1059
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,400
This guy already has
a criminal record
1060
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,300
And that jury,
in their hearts
1061
01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:09,600
if they allow
this guy is free
1062
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,600
only summer
another tragedy.
1063
01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:18,500
The jury took a week to
deliberate on the Rand destination
1064
01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:21,700
which gave us the opportunity to
look for one last person.
1065
01:10:22,100 --> 01:10:26,900
Reverend Muskett, a preacher who
Rand welcomed into your home in the last days
1066
01:10:26,900 --> 01:10:28,900
before his arrest in 1987.
1067
01:10:29,500 --> 01:10:31,400
For months we seek
about his whereabouts.
1068
01:10:32,100 --> 01:10:34,400
Until a detective finally
He revealed in his address.
1069
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:40,700
Hello, I'm looking for
the Lord Muskett.
1070
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,200
I do not know if he will want
get more involved with this story.
1071
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,800
Perhaps you feel that your
family has negative attention
1072
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,800
as a result
all this, I know that.
1073
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:51,800
- Yes, really we feel it.
- Yes.
1074
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:53,800
This is one of the reasons
we came to Pennsylvania.
1075
01:10:58,500 --> 01:11:00,500
So Rand was
living in your home
1076
01:11:00,500 --> 01:11:03,100
as was suspected by
disappearance of Jennifer?
1077
01:11:03,100 --> 01:11:08,200
Yes, it was the very
insistence police ...
1078
01:11:08,300 --> 01:11:10,200
we welcome
Rand in our house.
1079
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:13,900
Bold bait in the case
sequestration
1080
01:11:13,900 --> 01:11:14,000
Reverend endangered
his own family
1081
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:17,900
They bugged the house and
They had a surveillance car
Reverend endangered
his own family
1082
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:18,500
They bugged the house and
They had a surveillance car
1083
01:11:18,500 --> 01:11:21,500
which was in the
corner day and night.
1084
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:27,500
Church of "God Within"
1085
01:11:29,500 --> 01:11:32,500
Room where Rand was
1086
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,200
We could not tell people
what we were doing,
1087
01:11:36,900 --> 01:11:38,200
therefore, obviously,
if we said
1088
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,100
he would know and would go away.
1089
01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:43,800
Then, while
community did not know
1090
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,000
were friends
Andre Rand.
1091
01:11:46,700 --> 01:11:48,300
Confronted Reverend
by rioters
1092
01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:49,300
- They threatened you physically?
- Some people do.
Confronted Reverend
by rioters
1093
01:11:49,300 --> 01:11:52,300
- They threatened you physically?
- Some people do.
1094
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,000
They do not
saw as a friend.
1095
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,700
But I was
friend of Jennifer.
1096
01:12:01,900 --> 01:12:03,900
Why you believe
he took Jennifer?
1097
01:12:03,900 --> 01:12:05,900
He told me.
1098
01:12:06,300 --> 01:12:07,900
He told me
who took it.
1099
01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:13,300
He took it by
believe she was ...
1100
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:16,000
That her family
not wanted,
1101
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,000
and that she was alone,
1102
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:26,000
and he felt that people who
possessed a mental disability
1103
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,000
They should not live.
1104
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,000
Some clues of searches
for missing children
1105
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:39,600
Not thinking that people would enjoy,
or cared or liked
1106
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,000
someone who had a
mental handicap.
1107
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:50,000
Andre believed that these
little girls came from families
1108
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,800
which could not
give them anything.
1109
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,800
Then the best would be that
they were not around.
1110
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,800
It seemed that he thought
it was part of its mission
1111
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,000
to clean the world
1112
01:13:06,700 --> 01:13:08,300
Imperfect children,
1113
01:13:08,300 --> 01:13:10,000
in his view.
1114
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:15,300
Because her mother have had
some type of mental instability
1115
01:13:15,300 --> 01:13:20,300
and for him to see these other people as "not perfect"
1116
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:28,500
I personally believe that in place
to see them may grow up and have children,
1117
01:13:28,500 --> 01:13:31,000
it would be the saving
and taking off.
1118
01:13:32,900 --> 01:13:35,100
One of my sons
It has mental retardation.
1119
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,900
I walked with him,
his name is Chippy.
1120
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:44,100
What probably
attracted to ...
1121
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,100
for ...
1122
01:13:49,900 --> 01:13:51,500
Well, for us ...
1123
01:13:51,700 --> 01:13:54,700
Due to the way
Chippy was that.
1124
01:13:56,700 --> 01:13:58,200
I think he
It is possessed.
1125
01:13:58,900 --> 01:14:02,000
I really believe that
he is possessed and possessed
1126
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,000
We did the same questions that you are doing for me.
1127
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:10,000
"Why did he do it?"
"What led to this?"
1128
01:14:10,100 --> 01:14:12,500
Believe me, we were open
to all possibilities.
1129
01:14:12,500 --> 01:14:13,700
We consider a lot of things.
Of any kind, or reason.
1130
01:14:13,900 --> 01:14:16,400
When I finally interviewed,
it would be the last interview
1131
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,400
when he would be taken
back to his alibi
1132
01:14:20,100 --> 01:14:21,800
we had to rent
a hotel room.
1133
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:25,700
We said "Andre, you see, we have this tape Willowbrook.
1134
01:14:25,700 --> 01:14:27,300
Remember you
I used to work there? "
1135
01:14:27,300 --> 01:14:30,500
"Oh yes, it was terrible."
"Remember how Geraldo Rivera exposed the place"?
1136
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:32,300
And he said "Yes,
but I never saw "
1137
01:14:32,300 --> 01:14:35,000
"But we saw, I would go up and see?
We have a VCR here. "
1138
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,000
And he said
"You know, I would rather."
1139
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:41,100
And we say that it worked in Willowbrook for two years, he was a physical therapist,
1140
01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:44,300
Maybe you have something on that tape
that will shake you.
1141
01:14:48,500 --> 01:14:52,100
"It may be that the government defend and explain the cost cuts
1142
01:14:52,100 --> 01:14:54,200
for mental hygiene department,
1143
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,200
and that Dr. Miller can explain
1144
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,200
and defend the poor
and degrading conditions
1145
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,200
we find in this
and other buildings,
1146
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:02,200
but they did not
will this program.
1147
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:04,200
What we find and
We document here
1148
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,200
It is a disgrace
for all of us.
1149
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:07,500
This place does not
It is a school,
1150
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:09,300
It is a dark place where
We throw our children
1151
01:15:09,300 --> 01:15:10,800
we do not consider
beautiful to be looking.
1152
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,800
It is more like
a leper colony.
1153
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,800
We sat in their
side, and he began to cry.
1154
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:31,600
He said "They saw how there was? See how was it? We were victims too."
1155
01:15:31,900 --> 01:15:34,600
Referring to the assistants or to
people who worked there.
1156
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,700
He just sat and
his eyes, like, rolled up,
1157
01:15:42,700 --> 01:15:44,700
and he started
drooling in the hotel room.
1158
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:47,600
We could see the
What happened to it
1159
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,200
and it's like you could
kneel facing him and
1160
01:15:51,500 --> 01:15:53,700
"Tell me! Tell us the
truth now, "you know?
1161
01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:55,000
"God will forgive you"
1162
01:15:56,900 --> 01:16:00,500
We were so close that we think
we could, but give it began to sway.
1163
01:16:03,900 --> 01:16:06,300
He was that
way all night,
1164
01:16:06,500 --> 01:16:10,300
the next day too, and he only returned to
talk to people in 2 or 3 days later.
1165
01:16:23,900 --> 01:16:25,600
As it is initiated,
1166
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:28,100
in the end, it all ended
back to Willowbrook.
1167
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:32,200
The answers to these
missing children
1168
01:16:32,700 --> 01:16:34,700
They found
Geraldo on tape?
1169
01:16:35,500 --> 01:16:38,400
If so, would the sins of Willowbrook
finally returned to haunt residents
1170
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:42,400
Staten Island?
1171
01:16:44,900 --> 01:16:46,900
All the news,
all the time.
1172
01:16:47,700 --> 01:16:49,700
This is a win 10/10.
1173
01:16:49,700 --> 01:16:52,700
You give us 22 minutes and we
we'll give you the world.
1174
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:57,700
The guilty verdict, 23 years after the challenge
pearance of Holly Ann Hughes 7 years i>
1175
01:16:57,700 --> 01:17:00,000
outside of your
home in Staten Island. i>
1176
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:03,000
- Here are the heroes.
Heroes, heroes, heroes.
1177
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,000
- He's a killer. A
murderer and kidnapper.
1178
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:10,000
Tell us where she is. Tell us where the other children.
1179
01:17:10,700 --> 01:17:12,400
I searched for them.
I the meet.
1180
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,600
Is there anything else?
Of course, yes, it is speculated.
1181
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:18,500
But we certeficaremos that these
cases, someday, come to trial
1182
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,300
and thus all
the other families,
1183
01:17:20,300 --> 01:17:23,400
have the same kind of fairness
Schweiger and which had Hughes.
1184
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,000
A weight too
large left ...
1185
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,100
Taken away from me right now.
I feel much better.
1186
01:17:29,100 --> 01:17:31,100
Feel the certainty of closure
ment with this verdict?
1187
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:33,500
Well, you know what ...
1188
01:17:35,900 --> 01:17:37,900
Will not bring Holly Ann
back, you know that,
1189
01:17:37,900 --> 01:17:41,400
But ... she's watching.
1190
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:43,400
And that's enough.
1191
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,000
The killer received
a lot of nicknames,
1192
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,500
Pied Piper (Piper)
Hannibal Lecter,
1193
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,500
The bogeyman
Staten Island.
1194
01:17:48,500 --> 01:17:51,000
His victims were all
vulnerable were children.
1195
01:17:51,100 --> 01:17:53,000
And tonight the
Prosecutors are making sure
1196
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,000
this predator
remain behind bars.
1197
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,100
23 years ago, the city
entire froze
1198
01:17:58,100 --> 01:18:01,200
with the image of an innocent
girl 7 years old,
1199
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,400
who disappeared
in the blink of an eye.
1200
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:07,400
Unfortunately, Holly Ann Hughes
He never returned home.
1201
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:19,100
What was accomplished today assures us
that Andre Rand will die in prison.
1202
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:24,800
Andre Rand was sentenced to 25 years for kidnapping Holly Ann Hughes.
1203
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,600
You can answer in
parole in 2037.
1204
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,600
He will be with
93-year-old.
1205
01:18:32,100 --> 01:18:32,800
The monster
He deserves to die
1206
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,600
No matter how
horrible were the allegations,
The monster
He deserves to die
1207
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,600
No matter how
horrible were the allegations,
1208
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:40,000
this case was a
very difficult case
1209
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:40,300
Rand sentence:
"From prison to hell"
this case was a
very difficult case
1210
01:18:40,300 --> 01:18:47,000
which proved conclusively that this guy did it.
Rand sentence:
"From prison to hell"
1211
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:47,400
Rand sentence:
"From prison to hell"
1212
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:48,700
This goes to show that,
when a child is injured,
Rand sentence:
"From prison to hell"
1213
01:18:48,700 --> 01:18:51,500
This goes to show that,
when a child is injured,
1214
01:18:51,500 --> 01:18:53,800
a child
innocent disappears,
1215
01:18:54,700 --> 01:18:57,200
you know, people
basically want to lynch you.
1216
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,000
What if they had to
opportunity to lynch someone,
1217
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,800
they lynch Rand.
1218
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:03,800
Did you think this day would come?
1219
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:06,800
Do Not.
1220
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:09,600
No, I never thought
I would come this far.
1221
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:12,300
I do not feel like
It was all completed.
1222
01:19:12,300 --> 01:19:15,700
You know, it's ... I mean, you
never ends something
1223
01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:18,200
and this word
Also worth nothing.
1224
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,000
Well, it happened.
This is it.
1225
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,300
You have to live with it.
You have no option.
1226
01:19:24,300 --> 01:19:29,300
Just want to find what's left
and put it to rest.
1227
01:19:33,100 --> 01:19:38,700
Part of the testimony in this case um ...
he claimed that we were looking in the wrong place.
1228
01:19:38,700 --> 01:19:41,600
And you know what? I will
sure to look for the right place.
1229
01:19:42,300 --> 01:19:43,800
- And where would it be?
- This is Willowbrook.
1230
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:50,600
Now it's time to use what we learned from this to reopen some more of the other cases.
1231
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,100
I think he likes to play
with this mental little game.
1232
01:19:53,100 --> 01:19:55,500
I think we will con-
guindo small tips
1233
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,000
over the next years.
1234
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,500
He likes to be
the center of attention ...
1235
01:20:02,500 --> 01:20:05,500
one that holds the ...
keeper of secrets.
1236
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,400
And I think it will play a really important role.
1237
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,800
Donna, tell me your full name and again repeat the title of your organization.
1238
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,500
Sure, it's Donna Cutugno.
C-T-U ...
1239
01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:28,700
Andre Rand was
convicted in fact or fiction?
1240
01:20:29,500 --> 01:20:31,000
Probably
we will never know.
1241
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:33,400
But for the
residents of Staten Island,
1242
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:35,400
there is no distinction.
1243
01:20:35,900 --> 01:20:38,700
He was the killer
your children, your scapegoat,
1244
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:43,000
and his bogeyman, all
strongly merged into one.
1245
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,000
For some, Andre
Rand was the head
1246
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,900
an underground community
of subdued that roamed the forest.
1247
01:20:53,700 --> 01:20:55,900
For others, it
It was an unwitting puppet,
1248
01:20:55,900 --> 01:20:59,100
manipulated by a cult
depraved, that trafficked children,
1249
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,100
or a raving killer fueled by our own urban failures ...
1250
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:08,000
killing those he thought
are not worthy of being alive.
1251
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:12,400
We will never know the true
story behind Andre Rand.
1252
01:21:13,300 --> 01:21:15,400
All we left
It is our own version ...
1253
01:21:15,900 --> 01:21:18,300
the Cropsey *
1254
01:21:18,500 --> 01:21:20,500
But now, added another chapter
1255
01:21:20,900 --> 01:21:23,700
for the next generation d
and children of Staten Island.
1256
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,100
The power of urban legends is not the
need to be true,
1257
01:21:29,700 --> 01:21:33,500
but to tell us the truth
It has a range of possibilities.
1258
01:21:34,300 --> 01:21:36,500
and it is the public who should decide ...
1259
01:21:37,300 --> 01:21:39,000
So,
choose one.
1260
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:47,000
(Cropsey: someone bizarre,
that looks like a pedophile).
1261
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:03,000
[If anyone has any information on the whereabouts of these missing children, or any hint of her disappearance, please contact:
1262
01:22:06,100 --> 01:22:15,000
Synchronized and translated by
Fabricio Light ~ ~
113259
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