Original subtitles

These two young ladies in berkeley, off ashby avenue. And

berkeley, off ashby avenue. And they're hitchhiking, a couple

they're hitchhiking, a couple of real experts. I want to see

of real experts. I want to see how together I am, if I can

how together I am, if I can resist this temptation. I'm

resist this temptation. I'm trying to show you just how

trying to show you just how awful this got, how commanding

awful this got, how commanding these rages got. People weren't

these rages got. People weren't even aware of what was

even aware of what was happening. >> welcome to "very

happening. >> welcome to "very scary people." I'm donnie

scary people." I'm donnie wahlberg. Edmund kemper's goal

wahlberg. Edmund kemper's goal in life was to be a police

in life was to be a police officer. But he failed the

officer. But he failed the height requirement. At 6'9", he

height requirement. At 6'9", he was considered too tall. Now he

was considered too tall. Now he had a new objective. He was a

had a new objective. He was a one-man killing machine. Kemper

one-man killing machine. Kemper had already murdered six women

had already murdered six women hitchhikers, but he wasn't

hitchhikers, but he wasn't done. And no one felt safe. His

done. And no one felt safe. His true identity was a mystery,

true identity was a mystery, but he was known as the "coed

but he was known as the "coed killer." he cruised the streets

killer." he cruised the streets of santa cruz, california,

of santa cruz, california, thinking of murder all day

thinking of murder all day long. >> it's the age of

long. >> it's the age of aquarius. There's a lot of

aquarius. There's a lot of peace and love in the air. And

peace and love in the air. And then, suddenly, this was

then, suddenly, this was shattered. >> one day, several

shattered. >> one day, several body parts showed up right on

body parts showed up right on the beach, the main beach in

the beach, the main beach in santa cruz. >> and cut-up

santa cruz. >> and cut-up bodies were found around town.

Bodies were found around town. >> some were being found on the

>> some were being found on the side of the roads. >> the

side of the roads. >> the bodies were discovered last

bodies were discovered last week on eden canyon road. Both

week on eden canyon road. Both girls had been decapitated, and

girls had been decapitated, and the hands from one body had

the hands from one body had been cut off. >> it wasn't long

been cut off. >> it wasn't long before police realize that all

before police realize that all of these remains belong to

of these remains belong to young women, coeds, who had

young women, coeds, who had last been seen hitchhiking. >>

last been seen hitchhiking. >> at the time, I wanted my case

at the time, I wanted my case to look like random killings,

to look like random killings, unrelated. >> the man

unrelated. >> the man responsible was edmund kemper,

responsible was edmund kemper, who was in the middle of a

who was in the middle of a killing spree which started

killing spree which started after he killed his first two

after he killed his first two hitchhikers. They were two

hitchhikers. They were two 18-year-old college students,

18-year-old college students, anita luchessa and mary anne

anita luchessa and mary anne pesce. >> in the first killing,

pesce. >> in the first killing, in may of'72, it was something

in may of'72, it was something that had been thought out in

that had been thought out in fantasy, acted out, felt out

fantasy, acted out, felt out hundreds of times before it

hundreds of times before it ever happened. I'm driving

ever happened. I'm driving along, we go to a vulnerable

along, we go to a vulnerable place where there aren't people

place where there aren't people watching. >> he attacks the

watching. >> he attacks the young women, but they're no

young women, but they're no match for him. >> and I kept on

match for him. >> and I kept on just mindlessly attacking. >>

just mindlessly attacking. >> he stabs them to death in this

he stabs them to death in this frantic scene. And after that,

frantic scene. And after that, there was no stopping him. >>

there was no stopping him. >> in reality, we really had no

in reality, we really had no suspects. >> we kind of figured

suspects. >> we kind of figured that maybe it's somebody who

that maybe it's somebody who had just gotten out of state

had just gotten out of state prison, maybe. Maybe somebody

prison, maybe. Maybe somebody with some mental issues. >>

with some mental issues. >> little did the police know that

little did the police know that ed kemper was operating right

ed kemper was operating right under their noses. In fact,

under their noses. In fact, many of them knew him. >> ed's

many of them knew him. >> ed's story in santa cruz focuses on

story in santa cruz focuses on a place called the jury room.

A place called the jury room. The jury room was where

the jury room was where off-duty cops hung out. >> and

off-duty cops hung out. >> and kemper also went there quite

kemper also went there quite often. >> he's accepted by the

often. >> he's accepted by the police. He starts to be a very

police. He starts to be a very well-known personage there.

Well-known personage there. They give him a nickname. They

they give him a nickname. They call him "big ed." they never

call him "big ed." they never would have suspected, in a

would have suspected, in a million years, big ed was

million years, big ed was killing these coeds. >> and

killing these coeds. >> and they had no idea who this guy

they had no idea who this guy really was. And ed kemper, he

really was. And ed kemper, he was a man with a dark history.

Was a man with a dark history. >> when kemper was a

>> when kemper was a 15-year-old, he had killed his

15-year-old, he had killed his grandmother and then later

grandmother and then later killed his grandfather the same

killed his grandfather the same day. >> kemper is admitted to

day. >> kemper is admitted to atascadero state hospital, a

atascadero state hospital, a hospital for the criminally

hospital for the criminally insane. But he was a master

insane. But he was a master manipulator all of his life. He

manipulator all of his life. He was able to fake his way out of

was able to fake his way out of the hospital as being cured. >>

the hospital as being cured. >> and then he came to santa cruz

and then he came to santa cruz because his mother lived there.

Because his mother lived there. >> he had hated his mother

>> he had hated his mother since he was a kid, and it

since he was a kid, and it wasn't long after he moved back

wasn't long after he moved back in that all [bleep] broke

in that all [bleep] broke loose. >> by February of 1973,

loose. >> by February of 1973, ed kemper had killed six coeds,

ed kemper had killed six coeds, but he was reaching a breaking

but he was reaching a breaking point. >> one day, out of the

point. >> one day, out of the blue, in the middle of the

blue, in the middle of the night, the santa cruz police

night, the santa cruz police department gets a collect call

department gets a collect call from pueblo, colorado, wanting

from pueblo, colorado, wanting to talk to this particular

to talk to this particular lieutenant in the police

lieutenant in the police department. And the desk

department. And the desk officer says, "no, I can't call

officer says, "no, I can't call him to wake him up, so you'll

him to wake him up, so you'll have to call back after 8:00."

have to call back after 8:00." >> the caller said he had

>> the caller said he had killed his mother in santa cruz

killed his mother in santa cruz the day before and he had

the day before and he had driven all the way to colorado

driven all the way to colorado before deciding to turn himself

before deciding to turn himself in. The cop on the phone

in. The cop on the phone doesn't believe him. He think

doesn't believe him. He think he's making a joke or having a

he's making a joke or having a laugh. >> but then the caller

laugh. >> but then the caller says something startling. He

says something startling. He claims to be the coed killer.

Claims to be the coed killer. >> the policeman didn't

>> the policeman didn't understand what he was saying

understand what he was saying and ended up actually hanging

and ended up actually hanging up on him. >> he actually has

up on him. >> he actually has to call back the department a

to call back the department a couple of times, saying, "I did

couple of times, saying, "I did it, I did it, " before they

it, I did it, " before they finally believe him and

finally believe him and actually tell him, "wait in

actually tell him, "wait in your car. Local cops are gonna

your car. Local cops are gonna come get you, and then we'll be

come get you, and then we'll be out to talk to you after that."

out to talk to you after that." he sits and he waits. >> he was

he sits and he waits. >> he was still in the phone booth when

still in the phone booth when the pueblo police officers came

the pueblo police officers came and arrested him. >> the man

and arrested him. >> the man who claimed to be the coed

who claimed to be the coed killer, edmund kemper, was now

killer, edmund kemper, was now in police custody. >> I was at

in police custody. >> I was at home. About 5:00 in the morning,

home. About 5:00 in the morning, I got a phone call from santa

I got a phone call from santa cruz police department. They

cruz police department. They told me that ed kemper was on

told me that ed kemper was on the phone and he was confessing

the phone and he was confessing to doing all of these coed

to doing all of these coed murders and that he had also

murders and that he had also killed his mother and best

killed his mother and best friend. As I'm standing there

friend. As I'm standing there on the telephone with santa

on the telephone with santa cruz police department, I could

cruz police department, I could actually feel the blood drain

actually feel the blood drain out of my body almost. I just

out of my body almost. I just turned cold all over. Kemper

turned cold all over. Kemper suggested that I go to his

suggested that I go to his house because I had been there

house because I had been there before. I was familiar with

before. I was familiar with where his mother's apartment

where his mother's apartment was from when I went to

was from when I went to confiscate the gun. We went

confiscate the gun. We went around to the back of the

around to the back of the apartment and broke a window in

apartment and broke a window in the kitchen. If you've ever

the kitchen. If you've ever smelled death, you know that

smelled death, you know that that's what was going on in

that's what was going on in that apartment. As soon as you

that apartment. As soon as you walk in, that smell just hit

walk in, that smell just hit you. We went through the

you. We went through the apartment real quickly and got

apartment real quickly and got to the closet in his mother's

to the closet in his mother's room and pulled the closet door

room and pulled the closet door back, and there was a pile

back, and there was a pile there that was covered with a

there that was covered with a sheet. And so we pulled the

sheet. And so we pulled the sheet back, and we saw human

sheet back, and we saw human remains. >> they discovered the

remains. >> they discovered the bodies of his mother and her

bodies of his mother and her friend. >> this morning, about

friend. >> this morning, about 5:30, county sheriff's

5:30, county sheriff's investigators found the bodies

investigators found the bodies of two women, one of them

of two women, one of them decapitated and her right hand

decapitated and her right hand cut off. The bodies were found

cut off. The bodies were found in closets in the apartment

in closets in the apartment home of one of the victims. The

home of one of the victims. The son of that victim called santa

son of that victim called santa cruz police from pueblo,

cruz police from pueblo, colorado, this morning and told

colorado, this morning and told them about the murders. That

them about the murders. That call came from 24-year-old

call came from 24-year-old edmund emil kemper, who lived

edmund emil kemper, who lived at the address where the murder

at the address where the murder victims were discovered. Kemper

victims were discovered. Kemper was arrested in a pueblo phone

was arrested in a pueblo phone booth. >> a few hours later,

booth. >> a few hours later, I'm in my office on the

I'm in my office on the telephone with pueblo,

telephone with pueblo, colorado. And peter chang, who

colorado. And peter chang, who was the district attorney at

was the district attorney at the time, walked in. He says,

the time, walked in. He says, "do you know this guy kemper? "

"do you know this guy kemper? " and I said, "I met him once

and I said, "I met him once when I took the gun away from

when I took the gun away from him." and he says, "do you

him." and he says, "do you think you have a pretty good

think you have a pretty good rapport with him? " and I said,

rapport with him? " and I said, "yeah, I think so." he said,

"yeah, I think so." he said, "okay, pack a bag. We're going

"okay, pack a bag. We're going to colorado." by 1:00 that

to colorado." by 1:00 that afternoon, peter chang, myself,

afternoon, peter chang, myself, dick verbrugge, we're on a

dick verbrugge, we're on a plane headed to pueblo,

plane headed to pueblo, colorado. We're thinking about

colorado. We're thinking about what bases we need to cover

what bases we need to cover when we interview him, and we

when we interview him, and we knew that he was being

knew that he was being cooperative, so we were

cooperative, so we were expecting to get a lot of

expecting to get a lot of information. We landed in

information. We landed in pueblo, colorado, and went to

pueblo, colorado, and went to the police department where he

the police department where he was being held. >> when I first

was being held. >> when I first put my eyes on edmund kemper, I

put my eyes on edmund kemper, I couldn't believe how big he

couldn't believe how big he was. He was 6'9". He was a

was. He was 6'9". He was a formidable man. >> he looked

formidable man. >> he looked down at me and said, "hello,

down at me and said, "hello, how are you? " he was talking

how are you? " he was talking to me, and I think, "wow, this

to me, and I think, "wow, this is unbelievable." just

is unbelievable." just unbelievable. >> it was decided

unbelievable. >> it was decided that we were gonna, of course,

that we were gonna, of course, bring him back to santa cruz.

Bring him back to santa cruz. In that regard, we tried to

in that regard, we tried to make flight arrangements, and

make flight arrangements, and the airlines would not allow us

the airlines would not allow us to bring him back on their

to bring him back on their planes. >> so we just decided

planes. >> so we just decided it would be the best to drive

it would be the best to drive him back. >> it was a three-day

him back. >> it was a three-day trip. >> I was in the right

trip. >> I was in the right rear seat. Kemper was in the

rear seat. Kemper was in the left rear seat. >> he was

left rear seat. >> he was spilling his guts out all the

spilling his guts out all the way back. >> once he started to

way back. >> once he started to confess, he just didn't stop.

Confess, he just didn't stop. It was like pulling the plug on

it was like pulling the plug on a bathtub full of water. It was

a bathtub full of water. It was just gonna go all the way. >>

just gonna go all the way. >> what I had wanted to do was to

what I had wanted to do was to secure them and to suffocate

secure them and to suffocate them with plastic bags over

them with plastic bags over their heads. >> and over the

their heads. >> and over the course of the next three days,

course of the next three days, we had over six hours'worth of

we had over six hours'worth of interviews with him. >> santa

interviews with him. >> santa cruz detectives were

cruz detectives were

>> santa cruz detectives were driving back to california from

driving back to california from pueblo, colorado, with ed

pueblo, colorado, with ed kemper. >> he's spilling his

kemper. >> he's spilling his guts to me, and I sat next to

guts to me, and I sat next to him in the back seat for three

him in the back seat for three days. >> he kept talking about

days. >> he kept talking about the murders and giving us more

the murders and giving us more information and remembering

information and remembering small facts and giving them to

small facts and giving them to us continuously while we were

us continuously while we were driving. >> and he would go

driving. >> and he would go into great detail about his

into great detail about his victims and why he did it and

victims and why he did it and all of these things. After a

all of these things. After a while, I'm thinking to myself,

while, I'm thinking to myself, "god, will you just shut up?

"god, will you just shut up? You know, I've had enough." but

you know, I've had enough." but he'd keep talking. He'd keep

he'd keep talking. He'd keep talking. >> his fourth victim

talking. >> his fourth victim was a woman by the name of

was a woman by the name of cynthia schall. She was a

cynthia schall. She was a university student, and he

university student, and he picked her up. >> ms. Schall,

picked her up. >> ms. Schall, she actually got back into the

she actually got back into the trunk under her own power. I

trunk under her own power. I told her I was going to keep

told her I was going to keep her undercover so that I could

her undercover so that I could get her to my home, where we

get her to my home, where we could talk, but I didn't want

could talk, but I didn't want neighbors seeing her coming to

neighbors seeing her coming to the house or leaving the house.

The house or leaving the house. And I made that sound realistic

and I made that sound realistic to her. So she didn't want to

to her. So she didn't want to get in the trunk, but was

get in the trunk, but was willing to. When she got in the

willing to. When she got in the trunk, I shot her. >> after he

trunk, I shot her. >> after he cut off her head, he took it to

cut off her head, he took it to his house, to his mother's

his house, to his mother's house, went in the backyard,

house, went in the backyard, dug a hole. >> and kemper took

dug a hole. >> and kemper took the skull of cynthia, buried it

the skull of cynthia, buried it in his yard with the skull

in his yard with the skull facing his mother's bedroom. >>

facing his mother's bedroom. >> he told me that the reason he

he told me that the reason he did that is because he could

did that is because he could look out there and know that

look out there and know that she's looking at him. So, we

she's looking at him. So, we were passing all that

were passing all that information on to the

information on to the crime-scene investigators here

crime-scene investigators here in santa cruz. >> kemper is

in santa cruz. >> kemper is already on his way back from

already on his way back from colorado. He is due to arrive

colorado. He is due to arrive here on Friday, when further

here on Friday, when further questioning will take place. >>

questioning will take place. >> depending on whether and what

depending on whether and what routes they may take, he'll be

routes they may take, he'll be back any time between Friday

back any time between Friday and Monday. >> he was

and Monday. >> he was especially enamored with the

especially enamored with the notoriety that he was getting.

Notoriety that he was getting. One time we stopped to get some

one time we stopped to get some gas, and he had to go to the

gas, and he had to go to the restroom. So I took him into

restroom. So I took him into the restroom, and we had a

the restroom, and we had a chain around his waist and he

chain around his waist and he was handcuffed to it. But when

was handcuffed to it. But when we went in to use the restroom

we went in to use the restroom and we came out, people

and we came out, people recognized who this guy was,

recognized who this guy was, and there was a small crowd.

And there was a small crowd. And he would just stand erect,

and he would just stand erect, and he would kind of strut,

and he would kind of strut, looking around at all of these

looking around at all of these people. So, he was thoroughly

people. So, he was thoroughly enjoying all of this stuff. Day

enjoying all of this stuff. Day three, we arrived back in santa

three, we arrived back in santa cruz. We met other

cruz. We met other investigators, and the

investigators, and the agreement is that kemper will

agreement is that kemper will show us these disposal sites

show us these disposal sites before we take him in to have

before we take him in to have him booked. He took us to these

him booked. He took us to these various sites where he had

various sites where he had disposed of the remains. Some

disposed of the remains. Some of them were up in the

of them were up in the mountains, and some of them

mountains, and some of them were in country roads. >> there

were in country roads. >> there was no way we could've found

was no way we could've found them without him. >> he

them without him. >> he remembered every location,

remembered every location, every detail, what he did to

every detail, what he did to those victims, how he disposed

those victims, how he disposed of them. >> he could recall

of them. >> he could recall exactly where he put this part,

exactly where he put this part, another part. It was a very

another part. It was a very surreal experience in all

surreal experience in all aspects. >> so then we get to

aspects. >> so then we get to the county jail, and there must

the county jail, and there must have been, I'm guessing, 100

have been, I'm guessing, 100 people out front, a lot of

people out front, a lot of media. >> how do you feel now

media. >> how do you feel now that you found out he was a

that you found out he was a neighbor? >> just gives me the

neighbor? >> just gives me the creeps is kind of an

creeps is kind of an understatement. >> so we had to

understatement. >> so we had to pull around in back, and we

pull around in back, and we took him up to the jail to be

took him up to the jail to be booked. As they're filling out

booked. As they're filling out the information, it gets to the

the information, it gets to the point of who to notify in case

point of who to notify in case of emergency. And he looked at

of emergency. And he looked at me, and he says, "I don't have

me, and he says, "I don't have anybody left. Can I put you

anybody left. Can I put you down? " so he did. So my name's

down? " so he did. So my name's on his booking sheet. >> I'll

on his booking sheet. >> I'll never forget the day going into

never forget the day going into my morning visit to the

my morning visit to the sheriff's department and the

sheriff's department and the spokesman there saying, "we've

spokesman there saying, "we've solved it, we've got it, we've

solved it, we've got it, we've got the guy." >> at the age of

got the guy." >> at the age of 24, he murdered his mother,

24, he murdered his mother, then called police and

then called police and confessed to having dismembered

confessed to having dismembered college coeds for two years. >>

college coeds for two years. >> all I did was breathe a sigh of

all I did was breathe a sigh of relief. Thank god. >> those

relief. Thank god. >> those murders have been part of a

murders have been part of a series that had led santa cruz

series that had led santa cruz county residents to fear their

county residents to fear their county was becoming some kind

county was becoming some kind of murder capital. >> I was so

of murder capital. >> I was so relieved. I think everybody

relieved. I think everybody was. We could stop wondering

was. We could stop wondering what was gonna happen next. We

what was gonna happen next. We could really sleep at night. >>

could really sleep at night. >> but the city was going to wake

but the city was going to wake up to learn the sickening

up to learn the sickening details of what kemper had done

details of what kemper had done to his victims. >> kemper

to his victims. >> kemper buried the mutilated bodies in

buried the mutilated bodies in the mountains and took the

the mountains and took the severed heads home. Then he

severed heads home. Then he slept with their heads for days,

slept with their heads for days, and finally went looking for

and finally went looking for more.

More.

>> edmund kemper was finally back in santa cruz and behind

back in santa cruz and behind bars. >> in santa cruz, I sat

bars. >> in santa cruz, I sat down and interviewed him yet

down and interviewed him yet again. He was just as loose

again. He was just as loose with the information as he was

with the information as he was from the very beginning. >>

from the very beginning. >> kemper said he was killing

kemper said he was killing coeds to fulfill fantasies he

coeds to fulfill fantasies he had of killing his own mother,

had of killing his own mother, who he despised. >> I'd wanted

who he despised. >> I'd wanted to kill my mother since I was 8

to kill my mother since I was 8 years old, and I'm not proud of

years old, and I'm not proud of that. >> that's the age ed's

that. >> that's the age ed's father leaves the family

father leaves the family because he couldn't take his

because he couldn't take his wife's abuse anymore. >> she

wife's abuse anymore. >> she was there to beat me, she was

was there to beat me, she was there to humiliate me, she was

there to humiliate me, she was there to use me as an example

there to use me as an example of how inferior men are. >>

of how inferior men are. >> after that, his mother banished

after that, his mother banished him to live in the dark

him to live in the dark basement. >> this is very, very

basement. >> this is very, very disturbing. If a child is made

disturbing. If a child is made to live like that, you could

to live like that, you could see the amount of anger and

see the amount of anger and rage that's accumulated in a

rage that's accumulated in a young person's mind, and

young person's mind, and particularly towards his mother,

particularly towards his mother, who was the one who made him do

who was the one who made him do it. >> I must be a really evil

it. >> I must be a really evil little kid because I'm thinking

little kid because I'm thinking all these horrible things. I

all these horrible things. I was thinking of them in

was thinking of them in increasing amounts and

increasing amounts and increasing frequency, so it's a

increasing frequency, so it's a kind of conditioning. >> and he

kind of conditioning. >> and he retaliates by going after the

retaliates by going after the family cat. And not just

family cat. And not just killing it, but brutalizing the

killing it, but brutalizing the cat. Even at a young age, he

cat. Even at a young age, he knew that this was exciting,

knew that this was exciting, and he was sort of testing out

and he was sort of testing out the limits of these fantasies

the limits of these fantasies and starting to put them into

and starting to put them into real life. >> he played some

real life. >> he played some very, very sick games. >> there

very, very sick games. >> there were aggressive fantasies, as

were aggressive fantasies, as well as play-acting where he

well as play-acting where he would be electrocuted on an

would be electrocuted on an electric chair. Playing these

electric chair. Playing these violent games are abnormal in

violent games are abnormal in and of itself, but when you

and of itself, but when you associate it with sexual

associate it with sexual fantasies, which are beginning

fantasies, which are beginning really around this time -- 10,

really around this time -- 10, 11, 12 years old and so on --

11, 12 years old and so on -- that is highly abnormal. >>

that is highly abnormal. >> puberty for him puts him over

puberty for him puts him over the edge. He becomes very much

the edge. He becomes very much involved in sexual fantasies

involved in sexual fantasies and spends most of his time

and spends most of his time thinking about sex and thinking

thinking about sex and thinking about what he can do to people.

About what he can do to people. >> so you're seeing a fusion

>> so you're seeing a fusion between sexual fantasies and

between sexual fantasies and aggression. >> between the ages

aggression. >> between the ages of about 10 and 13, I was going

of about 10 and 13, I was going through some incredible

through some incredible emotional shifts. And without a

emotional shifts. And without a lot of positive input from

lot of positive input from parental or adult figures, it

parental or adult figures, it can go in some really wild

can go in some really wild directions. I wanted to get

directions. I wanted to get away from my mother because I

away from my mother because I was dreaming, thinking,

was dreaming, thinking, fantasizing murder all day

fantasizing murder all day long. I couldn't get it out of

long. I couldn't get it out of my head. >> when he was 14, ed

my head. >> when he was 14, ed kemper was reunited with his

kemper was reunited with his father, who was the only person

father, who was the only person he thought who ever cared for

he thought who ever cared for him. >> he thought it was gonna

him. >> he thought it was gonna be this great reunion with his

be this great reunion with his father, he was gonna be so

father, he was gonna be so happy. >> I'm desperate because

happy. >> I'm desperate because I've never had the man in my

I've never had the man in my life. I wanted my father's

life. I wanted my father's love. I wanted his approval. I

love. I wanted his approval. I wanted his recognitions. >> he

wanted his recognitions. >> he goes and lives with his dad for

goes and lives with his dad for a period, and his father is

a period, and his father is remarried and had a kid. And ed

remarried and had a kid. And ed realizes this is not the

realizes this is not the dynamic he thought it was going

dynamic he thought it was going to be. >> I think edmund kemper

to be. >> I think edmund kemper saw the stepson as a

saw the stepson as a replacement for him. He was a

replacement for him. He was a good kid. He didn't get into

good kid. He didn't get into trouble. He wasn't odd-looking.

Trouble. He wasn't odd-looking. He wasn't unusual. He was just

he wasn't unusual. He was just a normal kid. >> friction with

a normal kid. >> friction with my stepbrother and my

my stepbrother and my stepmother. There was problems

stepmother. There was problems there. We were vying for his

there. We were vying for his interest, vying for his love.

Interest, vying for his love. So we fought each other a lot,

so we fought each other a lot, and it was a lot of friction,

and it was a lot of friction, and he couldn't handle that, so

and he couldn't handle that, so he got rid of me. I was old

he got rid of me. I was old family. >> when he's 15 years

family. >> when he's 15 years old, the father takes him to

old, the father takes him to his grandparents, leaves him

his grandparents, leaves him there, and abandons him. >> I

there, and abandons him. >> I got left there. We went there

got left there. We went there for christmas from my father's

for christmas from my father's in l.A. We went up to the

in l.A. We went up to the mountains to stay for christmas,

mountains to stay for christmas, and I got left behind. >> the

and I got left behind. >> the father changes his phone

father changes his phone number. He can't be caught in

number. He can't be caught in any way, shape, or form. >> I

any way, shape, or form. >> I was already a failure, so, you

was already a failure, so, you know, I got parked up in the

know, I got parked up in the mountains. First it was okay

mountains. First it was okay because it was the calm of

because it was the calm of being away from montana. >> one

being away from montana. >> one of the happy bonding moments of

of the happy bonding moments of kemper's time with his

kemper's time with his grandparents is going out and

grandparents is going out and shooting with his grandfather.

Shooting with his grandfather. >> his grandfather is a very

>> his grandfather is a very staunch, straight guy who

staunch, straight guy who doesn't say much to him, but he

doesn't say much to him, but he is there for him. The

is there for him. The grandmother, on the other hand,

grandmother, on the other hand, started acting like the mother

started acting like the mother did. >> my grandmother had made

did. >> my grandmother had made agreements with me from the

agreements with me from the gate that she wouldn't get into

gate that she wouldn't get into little humiliating mind games

little humiliating mind games with me, like my mother and

with me, like my mother and stepfather had done. And then

stepfather had done. And then this mind game stuff started

this mind game stuff started up. >> she started to berate

up. >> she started to berate him. She started to make fun of

him. She started to make fun of him. She started to have almost

him. She started to have almost the same atmosphere in her

the same atmosphere in her house as he had at his mother's

house as he had at his mother's house, and he became very angry

house, and he became very angry at this. >> she never let me

at this. >> she never let me leave the property, and it

leave the property, and it started simmering, I guess,

started simmering, I guess, started building -- the

started building -- the passions and the tension. >>

passions and the tension. >> tension between ed and his

tension between ed and his grandmother were escalating and

grandmother were escalating and reached a boiling point. >>

reached a boiling point. >> kemper, he's rejected by his

kemper, he's rejected by his mother, he's dumped by his

mother, he's dumped by his father, his grandmother's on

father, his grandmother's on him, and I think, at this point,

him, and I think, at this point, kemper, who's filled with anger

kemper, who's filled with anger his whole life, he just doesn't

his whole life, he just doesn't care. >> I was building up big

care. >> I was building up big loads of frustration inside,

loads of frustration inside, big loads of hatred because I

big loads of hatred because I had no outlet for it. I should

had no outlet for it. I should have developed outlets, but I

have developed outlets, but I didn't know how at that time.

Didn't know how at that time. >> he starts, he says, to kind

>> he starts, he says, to kind of get this obsession in his

of get this obsession in his head where he wants to know

head where he wants to know what it's gonna feel like to

what it's gonna feel like to kill his grandmother, and he

kill his grandmother, and he starts thinking about it more

starts thinking about it more and more. This just was so in

and more. This just was so in his mind, he couldn't get it

his mind, he couldn't get it out. So kemper gets up one

out. So kemper gets up one morning, the tension is built,

morning, the tension is built, or maybe he's just decided

or maybe he's just decided today's the day in a very cold,

today's the day in a very cold, calculating way, and he comes

calculating way, and he comes up behind his grandmother,

up behind his grandmother, shoots her. >> and he killed

shoots her. >> and he killed her. But he also decided that

her. But he also decided that he didn't want his grandfather

he didn't want his grandfather to be upset with him, so he

to be upset with him, so he decided to kill the grandfather

decided to kill the grandfather before the grandfather found

before the grandfather found that he had killed the

that he had killed the grandmother. >> kemper was

grandmother. >> kemper was found insane and sent to a

found insane and sent to a state mental hospital at the

state mental hospital at the age of 15. Six years later, on

age of 15. Six years later, on his 21st birthday, he was

his 21st birthday, he was released. And that's when the

released. And that's when the trouble began.

Trouble began.

>> welcome back to "very scary people." when 21-year-old

people." when 21-year-old edmund kemper was finally being

edmund kemper was finally being released from the mental

released from the mental institution, doctors warned

institution, doctors warned there was one person he should

there was one person he should never be allowed to live with

never be allowed to live with again -- his mother. Their

again -- his mother. Their relationship throughout his

relationship throughout his childhood was toxic. The

childhood was toxic. The outcome could be catastrophic.

Outcome could be catastrophic. Turns out, they were right. >>

turns out, they were right. >> I can't get away from her.

I can't get away from her. We're still fighting, she's

we're still fighting, she's still belittling me. >> so ed

still belittling me. >> so ed kemper starts picking up women

kemper starts picking up women who are hitchhiking and

who are hitchhiking and fantasizes about killing them.

Fantasizes about killing them. >> I was dreaming, thinking,

>> I was dreaming, thinking, fantasizing murder all day

fantasizing murder all day long. I couldn't get it out of

long. I couldn't get it out of my head. >> and then, in may of

my head. >> and then, in may of 1972, he kills his first two

1972, he kills his first two coeds. They were mary anne

coeds. They were mary anne pesce and anita luchessa. >>

pesce and anita luchessa. >> the first young lady that was

the first young lady that was in the back seat, that was mary

in the back seat, that was mary anne pesce. She argued a lot.

Anne pesce. She argued a lot. >> this was the first time that

>> this was the first time that he actually followed through on

he actually followed through on what he had been thinking about

what he had been thinking about doing all this time. >> I just

doing all this time. >> I just stabbed to death and cut the

stabbed to death and cut the throat of an innocent young

throat of an innocent young woman -- innocent in a sense

woman -- innocent in a sense that she did not plan on that

that she did not plan on that happening. She didn't do

happening. She didn't do anything specifically for that

anything specifically for that to happen to her. And her

to happen to her. And her roommate died right after that.

Roommate died right after that. >> about nine months later,

>> about nine months later, kemper kills his last two

kemper kills his last two coeds. >> kemper's living with

coeds. >> kemper's living with his mother, having constant

his mother, having constant fights with her, and he says

fights with her, and he says they had this kind of

they had this kind of knock-down, drag-out fight. He

knock-down, drag-out fight. He was in such a blind rage, he

was in such a blind rage, he gets in his car, and he decided

gets in his car, and he decided no matter who got in the car,

no matter who got in the car, he was gonna kill them that

he was gonna kill them that night. And he picks up these

night. And he picks up these two women, rosalind thorpe and

two women, rosalind thorpe and allison liu. And this guy has a,

allison liu. And this guy has a, you know, uc santa cruz sticker

you know, uc santa cruz sticker on the car, seems like a safe

on the car, seems like a safe guy to get a ride with, so they

guy to get a ride with, so they both hop in, and he waves bye

both hop in, and he waves bye to the campus security, heads

to the campus security, heads on back to his location where

on back to his location where he's gonna kill them. And he

he's gonna kill them. And he claims this is one of the more

claims this is one of the more reckless moves that he claims

reckless moves that he claims to do. He says he doesn't even

to do. He says he doesn't even wait to get the bodies in the

wait to get the bodies in the house. He opens the trunk, and

house. He opens the trunk, and he decapitates both women right

he decapitates both women right there, and he claims the

there, and he claims the neighbors across the street,

neighbors across the street, they could have looked out and

they could have looked out and seen what he was doing. >> I

seen what he was doing. >> I was getting better at it. I was

was getting better at it. I was getting less detectable. I

getting less detectable. I started flaunting that

started flaunting that invisibility, severing a human

invisibility, severing a human head, two of them, at night in

head, two of them, at night in front of my mother's residence

front of my mother's residence with her at home, my neighbors

with her at home, my neighbors at home upstairs, their picture

at home upstairs, their picture window open, the curtains open.

Window open, the curtains open. 11:00 at night, the lights are

11:00 at night, the lights are on, all they have to do is walk

on, all they have to do is walk by, look out, and I've had it.

By, look out, and I've had it. >> ed kemper had killed a total

>> ed kemper had killed a total of six female hitchhikers. >>

of six female hitchhikers. >> for months, kemper had been

for months, kemper had been killing young women, but

killing young women, but finally he was going to get to

finally he was going to get to the root of his hate, his own

the root of his hate, his own mother. >> it was springtime,

mother. >> it was springtime, it was April, and for two

it was April, and for two months, I hadn't killed. I said,

months, I hadn't killed. I said, "it's not going to happen to

"it's not going to happen to any more girls. It's gotta stay

any more girls. It's gotta stay between me and my mother." >>

between me and my mother." >> he tells himself, "I got to

he tells himself, "I got to stop killing these other women.

Stop killing these other women. I need to kill my mother." >> I

I need to kill my mother." >> I said, "she's gotta die, or

said, "she's gotta die, or girls like that are gonna die."

girls like that are gonna die." and that's when I decided, "I'm

and that's when I decided, "I'm going to murder my mother." she

going to murder my mother." she went out to a party, she got

went out to a party, she got soused, she came home, went to

soused, she came home, went to sleep. I was woken up by that,

sleep. I was woken up by that, I came out. I walked up to her

I came out. I walked up to her bed. She's laying there reading

bed. She's laying there reading a paperback, as many thousands

a paperback, as many thousands of nights before. And she said,

of nights before. And she said, "oh, I suppose you're gonna

"oh, I suppose you're gonna wanna sit up all night and talk

wanna sit up all night and talk now." [bleep] I looked at her,

now." [bleep] I looked at her, I said, "no." I said,

I said, "no." I said, "goodnight." and I knew I was

"goodnight." and I knew I was gonna kill her. >> and he left

gonna kill her. >> and he left the room, waited till she fell

the room, waited till she fell asleep, came in with a claw

asleep, came in with a claw hammer, hit her in the head,

hammer, hit her in the head, and then he slit her throat. >>

and then he slit her throat. >> once my mother was dead, there

once my mother was dead, there was almost a cathartic process

was almost a cathartic process at that point, when I murdered

at that point, when I murdered her. >> and kemper talks about

her. >> and kemper talks about thinking, "what's good enough

thinking, "what's good enough for my other victims is good

for my other victims is good enough for my own mother." so

enough for my own mother." so he does to his mother what he

he does to his mother what he did to his other victims. >> I

did to his other victims. >> I cut off her head, and I

cut off her head, and I humiliated her corpse. >> and

humiliated her corpse. >> and what he did after that is truly

what he did after that is truly hard to hear. >> he dismembers

hard to hear. >> he dismembers her, he rapes her corpse. He

her, he rapes her corpse. He then takes a couple of

then takes a couple of additional steps that really go

additional steps that really go into the pathology of why this

into the pathology of why this guy hated his own mother. >> he

guy hated his own mother. >> he takes her vocal cords, and he

takes her vocal cords, and he puts them in the garbage

puts them in the garbage disposal. >> I think what it

disposal. >> I think what it means symbolically to him was,

means symbolically to him was, he couldn't stand her yelling

he couldn't stand her yelling and belittling him all these

and belittling him all these years. >> it was the way to

years. >> it was the way to stop his mother from saying

stop his mother from saying anything again, once and for

anything again, once and for all. >> and then the garbage

all. >> and then the garbage disposal basically spat it back

disposal basically spat it back at him. >> after he murdered

at him. >> after he murdered his mother, he obviously had to

his mother, he obviously had to think what he was gonna do next

think what he was gonna do next because she would be reported

because she would be reported as missing. >> so kemper then

as missing. >> so kemper then realizes that if anyone is

realizes that if anyone is gonna notice that his mother

gonna notice that his mother has gone missing, it's her best

has gone missing, it's her best friend, sally hallett. So ed

friend, sally hallett. So ed calls up sally and says, "hey,

calls up sally and says, "hey, do you want to come over? " >>

do you want to come over? " >> ed kemper had just killed his

ed kemper had just killed his mother, the woman he claimed

mother, the woman he claimed was

was

>> ed kemper had just killed his mother, the woman he

his mother, the woman he claimed was the source of his

claimed was the source of his anger. >> after he murdered his

anger. >> after he murdered his mother, he obviously had to

mother, he obviously had to think what he was gonna do next

think what he was gonna do next because she would be reported

because she would be reported as missing. >> so kemper then

as missing. >> so kemper then realizes that if anyone is

realizes that if anyone is gonna notice that his mother

gonna notice that his mother has gone missing, it's her best

has gone missing, it's her best friend, sally hallett. >> they

friend, sally hallett. >> they worked together at the

worked together at the university. >> sally hallett

university. >> sally hallett was a fairly typical

was a fairly typical administrator that worked in

administrator that worked in the dormitory system. She was a

the dormitory system. She was a competent, hard-working person.

Competent, hard-working person. >> so ed calls up sally and

>> so ed calls up sally and says, "hey, do you want to come

says, "hey, do you want to come over? " >> and he prepares the

over? " >> and he prepares the house so that no one will hear

house so that no one will hear anything or see anything. >>

anything or see anything. >> closed all the blinds so that

closed all the blinds so that no one can see in. Brings her

no one can see in. Brings her in the door. >> as soon as she

in the door. >> as soon as she walked in, he grabbed her. >>

walked in, he grabbed her. >> he attacks her, punches her in

he attacks her, punches her in the stomach. She puts up

the stomach. She puts up somewhat of a fight, but

somewhat of a fight, but ultimately he smothers her. And

ultimately he smothers her. And now he has two dead bodies. >>

now he has two dead bodies. >> after he committed these last

after he committed these last murders, before he left town,

murders, before he left town, in a very famous getaway, he

in a very famous getaway, he stopped off at the jury room,

stopped off at the jury room, which is the one place he felt

which is the one place he felt comfortable, I suppose. >> gets

comfortable, I suppose. >> gets a couple drinks, does his sort

a couple drinks, does his sort of usual cool-off. >> but it's

of usual cool-off. >> but it's only a matter of time before

only a matter of time before kemper gets caught, and he

kemper gets caught, and he knows this very, very well.

Knows this very, very well. Eventually they're gonna find

eventually they're gonna find his mother dead, and he's

his mother dead, and he's immediately gonna be the

immediately gonna be the number-one suspect. >> so he

number-one suspect. >> so he heads out, gets in his car, and

heads out, gets in his car, and just starts driving. >> he's

just starts driving. >> he's taking no-doz, he's trying to

taking no-doz, he's trying to keep up. >> he was listening to

keep up. >> he was listening to the radio, expecting to hear

the radio, expecting to hear news, either of his mother's

news, either of his mother's death or that the police were

death or that the police were in this chase for him, but it

in this chase for him, but it never happened. For him, I

never happened. For him, I think the paranoia was building

think the paranoia was building and building and building, and

and building and building, and it was starting to make him

it was starting to make him feel like he was cracking. >>

feel like he was cracking. >> and eventually, it just has to

and eventually, it just has to end. Where's he going? What's

end. Where's he going? What's he gonna do? Kemper then drives

he gonna do? Kemper then drives about 18 hours in total. >>

about 18 hours in total. >> then he decided that the jig

then he decided that the jig was up. >> at that point, he

was up. >> at that point, he finds himself over 1,000 miles

finds himself over 1,000 miles east of santa cruz, and he

east of santa cruz, and he stops to make a phone call. >>

stops to make a phone call. >> in pueblo, colorado, he gets in

in pueblo, colorado, he gets in a phone booth and confessed to

a phone booth and confessed to the murders. >> I just killed a

the murders. >> I just killed a young woman, and I kept on just

young woman, and I kept on just mindlessly attacking. >> when I

mindlessly attacking. >> when I think about what he did,

think about what he did, especially the way he

especially the way he dismembered and then had sex

dismembered and then had sex with body parts, it disgusts

with body parts, it disgusts me. It makes me want to vomit.

Me. It makes me want to vomit. I can't imagine a human being

I can't imagine a human being being that distorted and

being that distorted and inhumane. >> it wasn't the

inhumane. >> it wasn't the aspect of killing them, it was

aspect of killing them, it was the aspect of possessing their

the aspect of possessing their bodies afterwards. So it was

bodies afterwards. So it was almost after an effect --

almost after an effect -- evicting someone from their

evicting someone from their human body. And I'm sorry it

human body. And I'm sorry it sounds so cold, but that's

sounds so cold, but that's about what it analogizes to. >>

about what it analogizes to. >> the reason people commit

the reason people commit necrophilia is because they are

necrophilia is because they are in complete control of the

in complete control of the person. They are not going to

person. They are not going to be rejected, they're not going

be rejected, they're not going to be objected to. They cannot

to be objected to. They cannot say, "oh, you're awful, " or,

say, "oh, you're awful, " or, "yeah, I don't want to have sex

"yeah, I don't want to have sex with you." >> kemper was

with you." >> kemper was arraigned this afternoon on

arraigned this afternoon on charges of killing six young

charges of killing six young women, his mother, and a friend

women, his mother, and a friend of hers. >> the sight of edmund

of hers. >> the sight of edmund emil kemper iii is an awesome

emil kemper iii is an awesome experience in itself. He stands

experience in itself. He stands 6 feet, 9 inches tall and

6 feet, 9 inches tall and weighs about 280 pounds. But

weighs about 280 pounds. But the crimes with which he's been

the crimes with which he's been charged are even more awesome.

Charged are even more awesome. >> so, it was an interesting

>> so, it was an interesting sort of legal case for kemper's

sort of legal case for kemper's lawyers because he had

lawyers because he had confessed to all the crimes. >>

confessed to all the crimes. >> from the defense perspective,

from the defense perspective, there is really nowhere else to

there is really nowhere else to go other than an insanity

go other than an insanity defense. The hope for a defense

defense. The hope for a defense attorney at this point is that

attorney at this point is that you could convince just one

you could convince just one juror what he did is just so

juror what he did is just so outrageous, it's just so

outrageous, it's just so extraordinary, with necrophilia

extraordinary, with necrophilia and cutting heads off, he has

and cutting heads off, he has to be insane. He has to be out

to be insane. He has to be out of touch with reality. >>

of touch with reality. >> meanwhile, the prosecution

meanwhile, the prosecution strategy was to just point out

strategy was to just point out this was all thought out, that

this was all thought out, that he's an intelligent person,

he's an intelligent person, he's not insane, that he knew

he's not insane, that he knew the difference between right

the difference between right and wrong. >> when you try to

and wrong. >> when you try to elude law enforcement, it shows

elude law enforcement, it shows consciousness of guilt and an

consciousness of guilt and an awareness of the wrongfulness

awareness of the wrongfulness of your behavior. >> and he

of your behavior. >> and he knew it was wrong, but he did

knew it was wrong, but he did it anyway.

It anyway.

>> I covered the trial, and it was a media circus. But in

was a media circus. But in those days, they wouldn't allow

those days, they wouldn't allow cameras into courtrooms, except

cameras into courtrooms, except occasionally before the trial

occasionally before the trial started. In a way, the hardest

started. In a way, the hardest part of the entire case for me

part of the entire case for me was the day that kemper's taped

was the day that kemper's taped confession was played, and it

confession was played, and it was played all day long. >> I

was played all day long. >> I went out and bought at a pawn

went out and bought at a pawn shop a huge knife. And I kept

shop a huge knife. And I kept on just mindlessly attacking.

On just mindlessly attacking. >> and I focused on the

>> and I focused on the parents. And the look on their

parents. And the look on their face was something that I just

face was something that I just to this day can't get over. I

to this day can't get over. I can't imagine the horror in

can't imagine the horror in their life. There was one

their life. There was one father, and for some reason,

father, and for some reason, the look on his face got to me,

the look on his face got to me, and I started tearing up, and I

and I started tearing up, and I was crying, and I couldn't

was crying, and I couldn't stop. And, you know, that was

stop. And, you know, that was after months of dealing with

after months of dealing with this. The jury trial lasted

this. The jury trial lasted three weeks. The jury came back

three weeks. The jury came back within five hours. I don't

within five hours. I don't think there was much question

think there was much question at any point that he was guilty

at any point that he was guilty and sane. "may god have mercy

and sane. "may god have mercy on your soul, mr. Kemper." that

on your soul, mr. Kemper." that was the only words that were

was the only words that were spoken, and then he was whisked

spoken, and then he was whisked off. He was sentenced to life

off. He was sentenced to life in prison. Since he's been in

in prison. Since he's been in prison, ed has been a model

prison, ed has been a model inmate. >> from the prison

inmate. >> from the prison staff perspective, kemper is

staff perspective, kemper is somebody you could rely on. >>

somebody you could rely on. >> he has done an awful lot of

he has done an awful lot of volunteer work in the prison.

Volunteer work in the prison. >> there's the ability to work

>> there's the ability to work into that picture positive

into that picture positive things, like working on the

things, like working on the blind project, where we read

blind project, where we read books onto tape for the blind.

Books onto tape for the blind. I participated in that program

I participated in that program for the last 14 years. >> what

for the last 14 years. >> what have been your favorite

have been your favorite readings? >> sometimes

readings? >> sometimes children's books -- some of the

children's books -- some of the more complex children's books,

more complex children's books, like white's "charlotte's web,

like white's "charlotte's web, " "stuart little, " "trumpet of

" "stuart little, " "trumpet of the swan, " which are amazingly

the swan, " which are amazingly complex and before their times.

Complex and before their times. >> the day we visited, mass

>> the day we visited, mass murderer ed kemper was

murderer ed kemper was transcribing "star wars." >>

transcribing "star wars." >> reaching for the internal

reaching for the internal controls, 3po was shocked.

Controls, 3po was shocked. "behave yourself, r2, " he

"behave yourself, r2, " he finally chastised his

finally chastised his companion. "you're going to get

companion. "you're going to get us into trouble! " >> I think

us into trouble! " >> I think he is much more adjusted and

he is much more adjusted and feels much more comfortable in

feels much more comfortable in prison than what he felt when

prison than what he felt when he was out in society, because

he was out in society, because he couldn't live in society. He

he couldn't live in society. He was too wrapped up in his

was too wrapped up in his jealousy and his envy and his

jealousy and his envy and his inadequacy and the torment of

inadequacy and the torment of his inner life. Everything is

his inner life. Everything is very structured. He doesn't

very structured. He doesn't have to try to get a

have to try to get a girlfriend. There are no girls

girlfriend. There are no girls there. >> since he's been in

there. >> since he's been in prison, over all these years,

prison, over all these years, he has only had one write-up

he has only had one write-up for misconduct, and I was

for misconduct, and I was always afraid that when they

always afraid that when they looked at his record, looked at

looked at his record, looked at his intelligence, looked at the

his intelligence, looked at the way he could come across with

way he could come across with sincerity, that somebody might

sincerity, that somebody might say, "yeah, let's let him out."

say, "yeah, let's let him out." I just know in my heart that he

I just know in my heart that he would kill again. >> one of the

would kill again. >> one of the reasons people are so

reasons people are so interested in kemper is that

interested in kemper is that he's one of the very few serial

he's one of the very few serial killers who's spoken at length

killers who's spoken at length about his crimes and also his

about his crimes and also his motivations. And he's spoken

motivations. And he's spoken with the fbi behavioral

with the fbi behavioral sciences unit and given them

sciences unit and given them insights into why he did it. >>

insights into why he did it. >> I was invited to the fbi

I was invited to the fbi academy to talk about rape

academy to talk about rape victimology, serial killers,

victimology, serial killers, and serial crime, and they

and serial crime, and they didn't have anybody that was

didn't have anybody that was expert in that area. And that

expert in that area. And that was the start, if you will, of

was the start, if you will, of criminal profiling. Bob ressler

criminal profiling. Bob ressler and john douglas had just been

and john douglas had just been given the green light to be

given the green light to be able to do their own research.

Able to do their own research. The goal to the project was to

the goal to the project was to do interviews and get data from

do interviews and get data from 36 serial killers, to use the

36 serial killers, to use the data in the profiling. Kemper

data in the profiling. Kemper was an important part of our

was an important part of our study because we learned a lot

study because we learned a lot from him. He wanted to tell his

from him. He wanted to tell his story, and I think that was a

story, and I think that was a high for him to talk about it.

High for him to talk about it. It was "his handiwork, " if you

it was "his handiwork, " if you want to look at it in a rather

want to look at it in a rather dark way. >> as I'm sitting

dark way. >> as I'm sitting there with a severed head in my

there with a severed head in my hand, talking to it, I say,

hand, talking to it, I say, "wow, this is insane." and then

"wow, this is insane." and then I told myself, "no, it isn't.

I told myself, "no, it isn't. You're saying that, and that

you're saying that, and that makes it not insane." >> kemper

makes it not insane." >> kemper was very articulate, he was

was very articulate, he was very open, and he would talk

very open, and he would talk and talk and talk, which was

and talk and talk, which was very helpful. Talked about how

very helpful. Talked about how the thoughts all began. Talked

the thoughts all began. Talked about the fantasy and how some

about the fantasy and how some of his first murders went. >>

of his first murders went. >> but I was losing a grasp on

but I was losing a grasp on something that was too violent

something that was too violent to keep inside forever. >> what

to keep inside forever. >> what did we learn from ed kemper? We

did we learn from ed kemper? We learned a lot of things. First

learned a lot of things. First of all, the most important

of all, the most important thing was the fantasy life. He

thing was the fantasy life. He was very clear on that. He went

was very clear on that. He went into great detail about how

into great detail about how those fantasies started. He

those fantasies started. He also told us about how he

also told us about how he practiced and he practiced on

practiced and he practiced on animals and that he -- cats

animals and that he -- cats especially, where he would

especially, where he would behead the cat, and torture the

behead the cat, and torture the cat, and so forth. >> I started

cat, and so forth. >> I started with surrogates at a non-human

with surrogates at a non-human level. Small animals, insects,

level. Small animals, insects, animals, and then finally

animals, and then finally people. >> and then we learned

people. >> and then we learned how he followed his crimes --

how he followed his crimes -- he would read the paper, he

he would read the paper, he would interject himself in with

would interject himself in with the police when they were

the police when they were investigating, see how far

investigating, see how far along they were getting, and

along they were getting, and putting it over on the police.

Putting it over on the police. He was certainly getting

he was certainly getting vicarious satisfaction out of

vicarious satisfaction out of that. So, those were just some

that. So, those were just some of the takeaways from ed kemper,

of the takeaways from ed kemper, which later got translated to

which later got translated to other serial killers. >> I

other serial killers. >> I still think about the

still think about the experience, what happened to

experience, what happened to the community, what happened to

the community, what happened to these girls. I think it's fair

these girls. I think it's fair to say that the family members

to say that the family members who are still surviving, I'm

who are still surviving, I'm sure they live with this every

sure they live with this every day. And in that way, I do, too,

day. And in that way, I do, too, because my heart goes out to

because my heart goes out to all of them, and it's never

all of them, and it's never changed. >> he affected all of

changed. >> he affected all of us. He taught us that life is

us. He taught us that life is not safe, that bad things do

not safe, that bad things do happen to good people, and that

happen to good people, and that it's our job to be responsible

it's our job to be responsible for our own safety. >> now,

for our own safety. >> now, would you get in a car with

would you get in a car with this man, huh? >> I've never

this man, huh? >> I've never stopped looking to my right and

stopped looking to my right and to my left. I'll always be that

to my left. I'll always be that way. >> edmund kemper was

way. >> edmund kemper was sentenced to life in prison in

sentenced to life in prison in 1973. Incredibly, he was

1973. Incredibly, he was eligible for parole in 1979. It

eligible for parole in 1979. It was denied. He has been denied

was denied. He has been denied parole multiple times since,

parole multiple times since, most recently in 2017. He'll be

most recently in 2017. He'll be eligible for release again in

eligible for release again in 2024. The'70s may seem like a

2024. The'70s may seem like a long time ago, but the families

long time ago, but the families will never forget what this

will never forget what this monster took from them. I'm

monster took from them. I'm donnie wahlberg. Thanks for

donnie wahlberg. Thanks for watching. Goodnight.