All language subtitles for Very Scary People - 2x07_track1_eng

And increasingly sick life. I'm
picking up young women, and I'm

picking up young women, and I'm
going a little bit farther each

going a little bit farther each
time. This fantastic passion,

time. This fantastic passion,
it was like drugs. It was like

it was like drugs. It was like
alcohol. A little isn't enough.

Alcohol. A little isn't enough.
At first, it is, and as you

at first, it is, and as you
adjust to that psychologically

adjust to that psychologically
and physically, you take more

and physically, you take more
and more and more. It's the

and more and more. It's the
same process. >> welcome to

same process. >> welcome to
"very scary people." I'm donnie

"very scary people." I'm donnie
wahlberg. In the early'70s,

wahlberg. In the early'70s,
santa cruz, california, was a

santa cruz, california, was a
paradise -- beautiful weather,

paradise -- beautiful weather,
ocean beaches, friendly, laid

ocean beaches, friendly, laid
back -- until young women

back -- until young women
started disappearing. It was

started disappearing. It was
hard to imagine what was really

hard to imagine what was really
happening. There was a killer

happening. There was a killer
on the loose, and the city had

on the loose, and the city had
become a hunting ground. Soon

become a hunting ground. Soon
it would be known as the

it would be known as the
"murder capital of the world."

"murder capital of the world."
>> anita luchessa and mary anne

>> anita luchessa and mary anne
pesce were roommates at fresno

pesce were roommates at fresno
state, and they were

state, and they were
hitchhiking to stanford. >>

hitchhiking to stanford. >>
hitchhiking at that time was

hitchhiking at that time was
part of the youth culture. I

part of the youth culture. I
mean, it was just what

mean, it was just what
everybody did wherever they

everybody did wherever they
went. >> anita was 18, from a

went. >> anita was 18, from a
farming community, and it was

farming community, and it was
her first time hitchhiking.

Her first time hitchhiking.
Mary anne was from outside l.A.

Mary anne was from outside l.A.
She was also 18, and she was

she was also 18, and she was
one of five kids. >> it seems

one of five kids. >> it seems
like he's a normal guy. They

like he's a normal guy. They
treat him fairly normally in

treat him fairly normally in
the car. He's having a very

the car. He's having a very
normal conversation with them.

Normal conversation with them.
>> they don't know they're in

>> they don't know they're in
danger. >> he's looking back in

danger. >> he's looking back in
the window, trying to figure

the window, trying to figure
out, "are they casing me? Are

out, "are they casing me? Are
they looking at me funny? " no,

they looking at me funny? " no,
everything seems to be on the

everything seems to be on the
level with these girls. They're

level with these girls. They're
just trying to get to their

just trying to get to their
destination. They don't suspect

destination. They don't suspect
a thing. Because he knows the

a thing. Because he knows the
highways so well, it's really

highways so well, it's really
easy for him to kind of take a

easy for him to kind of take a
turn, take a turn. The girls

turn, take a turn. The girls
don't realize they're off track

don't realize they're off track
from their destinations. He's

from their destinations. He's
able to get them to a rural

able to get them to a rural
area before they realize it. >>

area before they realize it. >>
by this time, the girls figured

by this time, the girls figured
out that something was terribly

out that something was terribly
wrong, and they started to

wrong, and they started to
freak out. >> he tells the

freak out. >> he tells the
girls, "I'm not going to kill

girls, "I'm not going to kill
you. I'm here to rape you, "

you. I'm here to rape you, "
essentially. He thinks that's

essentially. He thinks that's
going to sort of calm them down

going to sort of calm them down
a little bit. Obviously, this

a little bit. Obviously, this
does not calm any woman, so

does not calm any woman, so
they're fighting back against

they're fighting back against
him. >> he quickly figures out

him. >> he quickly figures out
that it's going to be easier if

that it's going to be easier if
he separates the two girls. So

he separates the two girls. So
he puts anita in the trunk, and

he puts anita in the trunk, and
he stabs mary anne, who fights

he stabs mary anne, who fights
for her life. After he kills

for her life. After he kills
mary anne, he then has to deal

mary anne, he then has to deal
with anita, who's in the trunk.

With anita, who's in the trunk.
>> she has been in there the

>> she has been in there the
entire time hearing what is

entire time hearing what is
going on, so she has to know

going on, so she has to know
that her friend is either

that her friend is either
mortally wounded or dead, and

mortally wounded or dead, and
she also has to know that

she also has to know that
that's coming for her next. He

that's coming for her next. He
opens up the trunk, where he

opens up the trunk, where he
realizes he is covered in blood,

realizes he is covered in blood,
but he doesn't want to alarm

but he doesn't want to alarm
the other woman. And he tells

the other woman. And he tells
her, "your friend got smart

her, "your friend got smart
with me, so I had to hit her.

With me, so I had to hit her.
That's why there's blood on

that's why there's blood on
me." as if that's going to make

me." as if that's going to make
this woman feel any better

this woman feel any better
about the situation. But

about the situation. But
there's something in his mind

there's something in his mind
that seems to think, "this is

that seems to think, "this is
how people talk to each other,

how people talk to each other,
and maybe this will calm her."

and maybe this will calm her."
>> so anita tries to get away

>> so anita tries to get away
from him, but she never had a

from him, but she never had a
chance. He stabs her before she

chance. He stabs her before she
can get out of the trunk. >> so

can get out of the trunk. >> so
he kills both women in this

he kills both women in this
really frantic sort of scene.

Really frantic sort of scene.
>> the horrible aspect of this

>> the horrible aspect of this
is that he was pulled over by a

is that he was pulled over by a
police officer when he had the

police officer when he had the
two bodies in his trunk of his

two bodies in his trunk of his
car. He had a broken tail

car. He had a broken tail
light. >> he knows how to talk

light. >> he knows how to talk
to police. He says, "oh, hey,

to police. He says, "oh, hey,
sorry about that, officer. I'll

sorry about that, officer. I'll
get that fixed." >> and he

get that fixed." >> and he
invited the police officer to

invited the police officer to
go ahead, "open the trunk if

go ahead, "open the trunk if
you want to look in it." and he

you want to look in it." and he
decided that he was going to

decided that he was going to
have to murder the cop if he

have to murder the cop if he
opened the trunk. But he never

opened the trunk. But he never
did. So he drives off a free

did. So he drives off a free
man. >> what happened next is

man. >> what happened next is
truly unimaginable. He takes

truly unimaginable. He takes
the bodies, takes them back to

the bodies, takes them back to
his apartment. He dismembers

his apartment. He dismembers
them. He particularly seems to

them. He particularly seems to
enjoy beheading his victims. At

enjoy beheading his victims. At
that point then, he'll rape the

that point then, he'll rape the
bodies repeatedly, usually over

bodies repeatedly, usually over
a couple of days. >> I was

a couple of days. >> I was
working as a detective for the

working as a detective for the
santa cruz sheriff's office. We

santa cruz sheriff's office. We
got the report of a human head

got the report of a human head
that was found up in loma

that was found up in loma
prieta, which is in the

prieta, which is in the
mountains back up out of santa

mountains back up out of santa
cruz. It was decomposed to the

cruz. It was decomposed to the
point where we couldn't

point where we couldn't
identify the sex of the victim.

Identify the sex of the victim.
So we brought it back to have

so we brought it back to have
it analyzed and do all of the

it analyzed and do all of the
forensic work on it. Through

forensic work on it. Through
dental charts, we eventually

dental charts, we eventually
discovered that it was a young

discovered that it was a young
female out of fresno. >> I was

female out of fresno. >> I was
a reporter for "the santa cruz

a reporter for "the santa cruz
sentinel" newspaper, and the

sentinel" newspaper, and the
first story I ever did for the

first story I ever did for the
newspaper was that they had

newspaper was that they had
identified the victim of a

identified the victim of a
skull that was found. >> the

skull that was found. >> the
head belonged to mary anne

head belonged to mary anne
pesce, the fresno state

pesce, the fresno state
student. She'd gone missing

student. She'd gone missing
three months earlier with her

three months earlier with her
roommate, anita. >> that was

roommate, anita. >> that was
the atmosphere into which I

the atmosphere into which I
stepped my very first day of

stepped my very first day of
work, as a beginning reporter,

work, as a beginning reporter,
in 1972. >> aiko koo was 15

in 1972. >> aiko koo was 15
years old, well-regarded sort

years old, well-regarded sort
of dancer, up and coming. She

of dancer, up and coming. She
had unfortunately missed the

had unfortunately missed the
bus to go to her dance class in

bus to go to her dance class in
san francisco, so she's out in

san francisco, so she's out in
berkeley hitchhiking. She's got

berkeley hitchhiking. She's got
a little sign saying where she

a little sign saying where she
wants to go. >> a

wants to go. >> a
20-something-year-old man

20-something-year-old man
offered her a ride. >> he takes

offered her a ride. >> he takes
her on the highway, takes her

her on the highway, takes her
on a different route. She

on a different route. She
doesn't realize that they've

doesn't realize that they've
totally missed where they

totally missed where they
should've gone. >> he drives to

should've gone. >> he drives to
the middle of nowhere. >> and

the middle of nowhere. >> and
aiko koo was never seen again.

Aiko koo was never seen again.
>> the information came into

>> the information came into
the sheriff's office during

the sheriff's office during
this time that there was a guy

this time that there was a guy
who had apparently had a

who had apparently had a
history of violence, and the

history of violence, and the
cops had found out that he had

cops had found out that he had
purchased a gun. >> we saw that

purchased a gun. >> we saw that
he had been convicted of very

he had been convicted of very
serious felonies in another

serious felonies in another
jurisdiction and his record had

jurisdiction and his record had
been sealed by a judge. So we

been sealed by a judge. So we
made the decision, myself and

made the decision, myself and
my partner, to go and

my partner, to go and
confiscate the weapon and

confiscate the weapon and
submit the information to our

submit the information to our
local judge to get a judicial

local judge to get a judicial
decision as to whether or not

decision as to whether or not
he could own that handgun. >>

he could own that handgun. >>
and the sheriff's department,

and the sheriff's department,
in fact, they were kidding

in fact, they were kidding
about it, they said, "this guy

about it, they said, "this guy
is supposedly 6'9" and we've

is supposedly 6'9" and we've
been asked to go take his gun

been asked to go take his gun
away from him." >> everybody

away from him." >> everybody
laughed and said, "well, we'll

laughed and said, "well, we'll
give this to the new kid, "

give this to the new kid, "
because I was the junior

because I was the junior
>> santa cruz detectives had

>> santa cruz detectives had
recently heard that a local man

recently heard that a local man
had bought a gun illegally.

Had bought a gun illegally.
They had found out about his

they had found out about his
juvenile record, and they

juvenile record, and they
realized he shouldn't have

realized he shouldn't have
firearms in his house. And so

firearms in his house. And so
they went out to talk to him.

They went out to talk to him.
>> myself and my partner drove

>> myself and my partner drove
out to aptos, which is like a

out to aptos, which is like a
suburb of the city of santa

suburb of the city of santa
cruz. And it's kind of a

cruz. And it's kind of a
complicated neighborhood. There

complicated neighborhood. There
were several places with the

were several places with the
same address. So we couldn't

same address. So we couldn't
find it. We knocked on some

find it. We knocked on some
doors, couldn't find anything.

Doors, couldn't find anything.
So, as we're getting ready to

so, as we're getting ready to
leave, this car pulls up. I'll

leave, this car pulls up. I'll
never forget it. And I told my

never forget it. And I told my
partner, I said, "I'm going to

partner, I said, "I'm going to
go ask him if he knows where

go ask him if he knows where
this guy kemper is." so I go

this guy kemper is." so I go
over there, and I said, "excuse

over there, and I said, "excuse
me, can I talk to you for a

me, can I talk to you for a
second? " and he said, "sure."

second? " and he said, "sure."
so he got out of the car, and

so he got out of the car, and
he got out of the car, and he

he got out of the car, and he
got out of the car. And I told

got out of the car. And I told
my partner, I says, "I think we

my partner, I says, "I think we
found him, " because he is just

found him, " because he is just
huge. He just towered over us.

Huge. He just towered over us.
>> they were looking for me and

>> they were looking for me and
didn't even know that it was

didn't even know that it was
me. >> so, I told him what we

me. >> so, I told him what we
were there for. And he said,

were there for. And he said,
"oh, certainly, I understand."

"oh, certainly, I understand."
he understood why we were

he understood why we were
taking the gun. He says, "it's

taking the gun. He says, "it's
in the house." he was very

in the house." he was very
friendly. Seemed like a nice

friendly. Seemed like a nice
guy, very personable, very

guy, very personable, very
articulate. >> I don't wanna

articulate. >> I don't wanna
advertise that I've got a whole

advertise that I've got a whole
bunch of guns. Because that

bunch of guns. Because that
loaded .22 was under the front

loaded .22 was under the front
seat and would guarantee me an

seat and would guarantee me an
arrest right on the spot. >> so

arrest right on the spot. >> so
we go to the house, and he

we go to the house, and he
walks in the front door. And we

walks in the front door. And we
walk in the front door with

walk in the front door with
him. There was a sofa there

him. There was a sofa there
with somebody sleeping. And he

with somebody sleeping. And he
says, "oh, wait a minute, " he

says, "oh, wait a minute, " he
says, "that's my mother. She's

says, "that's my mother. She's
asleep." >> the man leads them

asleep." >> the man leads them
into his bedroom before he

into his bedroom before he
realizes his mistake. >> and

realizes his mistake. >> and
the closet door's open, and I

the closet door's open, and I
have a high powered rifle with

have a high powered rifle with
a scope on it. I had the

a scope on it. I had the
personal effects and

personal effects and
identification of the last two

identification of the last two
coeds that had been murdered

coeds that had been murdered
about two months before, right

about two months before, right
next to the guns in the closet,

next to the guns in the closet,
in a box. I back up, I said,

in a box. I back up, I said,
"oh, excuse me, I just

"oh, excuse me, I just
remembered something." >> so he

remembered something." >> so he
said, "the gun, actually, it's

said, "the gun, actually, it's
in the trunk of my car." so I

in the trunk of my car." so I
said, "okay, let's go get it."

said, "okay, let's go get it."
>> and instantly back we go

>> and instantly back we go
outside, and he's still

outside, and he's still
thinking, "boy, this is a

thinking, "boy, this is a
really nice and helpful guy

really nice and helpful guy
here." >> so I opened up the

here." >> so I opened up the
trunk, and there was a bundle

trunk, and there was a bundle
there. It was like in a

there. It was like in a
lightweight blanket, it was

lightweight blanket, it was
wrapped up in it. So, I opened

wrapped up in it. So, I opened
it up, and there was the gun.

It up, and there was the gun.
So, we took the gun and told

so, we took the gun and told
him, "okay, we'll find out,

him, "okay, we'll find out,
we'll let you know what

we'll let you know what
happened." >> he willingly gave

happened." >> he willingly gave
the gun up, and there was

the gun up, and there was
nothing more said about it. >>

nothing more said about it. >>
and of course detectives had no

and of course detectives had no
idea that that man had killed

idea that that man had killed
15-year-old aiko koo two days

15-year-old aiko koo two days
before, on her way to a ballet

before, on her way to a ballet
class. >> nowhere in anybody's

class. >> nowhere in anybody's
mind did they connect him with

mind did they connect him with
these cases. But he did connect

these cases. But he did connect
it. He thought, "oh, no,

it. He thought, "oh, no,
they're onto me." >> extreme

they're onto me." >> extreme
paranoia had set in with him.

Paranoia had set in with him.
He thought that we were playing

he thought that we were playing
cat and mouse with him and that

cat and mouse with him and that
we knew what he was doing. >>

we knew what he was doing. >>
but of course no one had a

but of course no one had a
clue. >> the man was very

clue. >> the man was very
careful to cover his tracks

careful to cover his tracks
because he knew he had more

because he knew he had more
killing to do. >> and this

killing to do. >> and this
craving, this awful, raging,

craving, this awful, raging,
eating feeling inside, I could

eating feeling inside, I could
feel it consuming my insides.

Feel it consuming my insides.
>> in October, another female

>> in October, another female
college student goes missing.

College student goes missing.
>> what was really upsetting

>> what was really upsetting
about the first cases of the

about the first cases of the
missing women was that when a

missing women was that when a
parent would call in about a

parent would call in about a
missing child, they would tell

missing child, they would tell
the parents to relax, they'll

the parents to relax, they'll
probably return home in a few

probably return home in a few
days. "be patient. Your

days. "be patient. Your
daughter probably just ran

daughter probably just ran
away." it was the'70s, when a

away." it was the'70s, when a
lot of kids ran away from home

lot of kids ran away from home
and the cops didn't do much

and the cops didn't do much
about it. >> there are tons of

about it. >> there are tons of
people throughout the state

people throughout the state
that turn up missing for

that turn up missing for
various reasons, whether they

various reasons, whether they
be runaways or maybe they're

be runaways or maybe they're
victims of a crime. But those

victims of a crime. But those
reports are filed constantly.

Reports are filed constantly.
It's kind of hard to keep on

it's kind of hard to keep on
top of all of them. >> and of

top of all of them. >> and of
course panic is taking over in

course panic is taking over in
the small town of santa cruz.

The small town of santa cruz.
>> there were really no clues.

>> there were really no clues.
>> all people can do is

>> all people can do is
speculate about who is

speculate about who is
committing these crimes.

Committing these crimes.
>> young women were going

>> young women were going
missing in the beachside

missing in the beachside
community of santa cruz, and

community of santa cruz, and
police had just found the skull

police had just found the skull
of one of those women, a

of one of those women, a
college student named mary anne

college student named mary anne
pesce. >> I think all of us got

pesce. >> I think all of us got
concerned. This is kind of

concerned. This is kind of
crazy. We really didn't

crazy. We really didn't
understand what was going on.

Understand what was going on.
>> in the new year, there was

>> in the new year, there was
another grisly discovery. A

another grisly discovery. A
highway patrolman found a

highway patrolman found a
woman's body parts on the side

woman's body parts on the side
of the road. >> one torso

of the road. >> one torso
washed up at the main beach in

washed up at the main beach in
santa cruz right near the main

santa cruz right near the main
wharf. Somebody found it and

wharf. Somebody found it and
called the police department.

Called the police department.
>> the body parts belonged to a

>> the body parts belonged to a
woman who went missing about a

woman who went missing about a
week before. Her name was

week before. Her name was
cynthia schall. >> at first

cynthia schall. >> at first
there was a disbelief in the

there was a disbelief in the
whole issue. "this can't be

whole issue. "this can't be
happening in our community."

happening in our community."
but it was happening. >> why do

but it was happening. >> why do
you think this is happening

you think this is happening
here? >> I have no idea. >>

here? >> I have no idea. >>
panic is taking over in the

panic is taking over in the
small town of santa cruz. >> I

small town of santa cruz. >> I
remember being at dinner with

remember being at dinner with
somebody's house, and we heard

somebody's house, and we heard
a scream and we all ran outside

a scream and we all ran outside
because we thought maybe this

because we thought maybe this
was the next case, something

was the next case, something
had gone on. It turned out it

had gone on. It turned out it
was kids playing. It was crazy

was kids playing. It was crazy
time. >> all people can do is

time. >> all people can do is
speculate about who is

speculate about who is
committing these crimes. >> I

committing these crimes. >> I
don't think anybody thought it

don't think anybody thought it
was a townsperson. I don't

was a townsperson. I don't
think anybody believed it was a

think anybody believed it was a
student that did this. I think

student that did this. I think
people, pretty much like myself,

people, pretty much like myself,
were convinced that there's

were convinced that there's
some other people that come in

some other people that come in
and out of santa cruz -- it was

and out of santa cruz -- it was
that kind of community -- that

that kind of community -- that
was doing this. >> this was

was doing this. >> this was
such a confusing time because

such a confusing time because
there were really no clues. >>

there were really no clues. >>
why all these murders here? Why?

Why all these murders here? Why?
>> well, one reason is that we

>> well, one reason is that we
have a homicidal maniac

have a homicidal maniac
apparently. >> when people did

apparently. >> when people did
find remains, they would

find remains, they would
usually call the police

usually call the police
department. And then whatever

department. And then whatever
forensics was available at the

forensics was available at the
time was done on the remains in

time was done on the remains in
hopes of identifying them. >>

hopes of identifying them. >>
in those days, they couldn't do

in those days, they couldn't do
dna, anything like that. You

dna, anything like that. You
could maybe get a blood type,

could maybe get a blood type,
and that was pretty much it. >>

and that was pretty much it. >>
we would ascertain the blood

we would ascertain the blood
type and then do searches for

type and then do searches for
missing persons with a similar

missing persons with a similar
blood type and hopefully work

blood type and hopefully work
out I.D.S through that manner.

Out I.D.S through that manner.
Some of the victims, as far as

some of the victims, as far as
we knew, were female

we knew, were female
hitchhikers. >> hitchhikers

hitchhikers. >> hitchhikers
were all over town. It was the

were all over town. It was the
way you got around if you

way you got around if you
didn't have a car. >>

didn't have a car. >>
hitchhiking was particularly

hitchhiking was particularly
important in santa cruz because

important in santa cruz because
the uc santa cruz campus is on

the uc santa cruz campus is on
top of the hill, and it's a

top of the hill, and it's a
fairly extensive walk down to

fairly extensive walk down to
the downtown where all the

the downtown where all the
restaurants and things were. >>

restaurants and things were. >>
if you drove up on campus,

if you drove up on campus,
there would be a group of 12,

there would be a group of 12,
14, 16 people all hitchhiking.

14, 16 people all hitchhiking.
>> you'd just stop your car if

>> you'd just stop your car if
you were faculty or a staff

you were faculty or a staff
member and pick up some

member and pick up some
students. I even picked up

students. I even picked up
students all the time. It was

students all the time. It was
just part of everyday life in

just part of everyday life in
santa cruz. >> these murders

santa cruz. >> these murders
raised anxiety on campus, as it

raised anxiety on campus, as it
did probably every college in

did probably every college in
the bay area. >> that raised

the bay area. >> that raised
our eyebrows as to we have to

our eyebrows as to we have to
be concerned about our

be concerned about our
students. >> and we went on

students. >> and we went on
this big campaign to discourage

this big campaign to discourage
people from hitchhiking. >>

people from hitchhiking. >>
bulletin boards were installed

bulletin boards were installed
on campus that read, "when

on campus that read, "when
possible, girls especially,

possible, girls especially,
stay in the dorms after

stay in the dorms after
midnight with doors locked. If

midnight with doors locked. If
you must be out at night, walk

you must be out at night, walk
in pairs." >> every newspaper

in pairs." >> every newspaper
we had contact with, they were

we had contact with, they were
asked to put stories, warnings

asked to put stories, warnings
in there that said being a

in there that said being a
hitchhiker, especially a female

hitchhiker, especially a female
hitchhiker, is very, very

hitchhiker, is very, very
dangerous. >> I used to

dangerous. >> I used to
hitchhike'cause I have classes

hitchhike'cause I have classes
at night. I have a ballet class

at night. I have a ballet class
off-campus at night, and out of

off-campus at night, and out of
necessity to get to it on time,

necessity to get to it on time,
I had to hitchhike. And I

I had to hitchhike. And I
stopped now. >> why? >> well,

stopped now. >> why? >> well,
I'm afraid, put it point blank.

I'm afraid, put it point blank.
>> hitching is dangerous.

>> hitching is dangerous.
There's no question about it.

There's no question about it.
>> but that was only the half

>> but that was only the half
of it. Santa cruz was ground

of it. Santa cruz was ground
zero for another string of

zero for another string of
murders at the same time. And

murders at the same time. And
these murders didn't seem

these murders didn't seem
related to female hitchhikers.

Related to female hitchhikers.
>> a homeless man was found

>> a homeless man was found
brutally murdered, and a priest

brutally murdered, and a priest
was stabbed inside his own

was stabbed inside his own
confessional. >> we started

confessional. >> we started
getting all kinds of homicides

getting all kinds of homicides
that were occurring throughout

that were occurring throughout
the county. >> in early 1973, a

the county. >> in early 1973, a
young mother and her two boys

young mother and her two boys
were found shot to death. >>

were found shot to death. >>
santa cruz was a safe place in

santa cruz was a safe place in
those days. Our crime base was

those days. Our crime base was
pretty much like car thefts,

pretty much like car thefts,
burglaries, things of that

burglaries, things of that
nature. Sometimes we'll get the

nature. Sometimes we'll get the
occasional armed robbery. And,

occasional armed robbery. And,
in a period of about eight

in a period of about eight
months, we had, I think it was

months, we had, I think it was
26 or 28 homicides. >> we only

26 or 28 homicides. >> we only
had one little newspaper. It's

had one little newspaper. It's
called "the santa cruz

called "the santa cruz
sentinel." and on the front

sentinel." and on the front
page, they had "santa cruz: The

page, they had "santa cruz: The
murder capital of the world."

murder capital of the world."
>> we're trying to figure out

>> we're trying to figure out
what was going on, because

what was going on, because
there were different types of

there were different types of
crimes. One was shootings, the

crimes. One was shootings, the
others were like dismembered

others were like dismembered
females. >> these crimes don't

females. >> these crimes don't
seem to be connected at all. >>

seem to be connected at all. >>
a lot of these women that were

a lot of these women that were
being dismembered, that kind of

being dismembered, that kind of
fits one profile, where the

fits one profile, where the
others fit a different profile.

Others fit a different profile.
>> we didn't know whether there

>> we didn't know whether there
was one killer or several

was one killer or several
killers. All we knew was that

killers. All we knew was that
our safe town wasn't the same

our safe town wasn't the same
anymore. >> and I think that

anymore. >> and I think that
was confusing to the police who

was confusing to the police who
were trying to figure out, "how

were trying to figure out, "how
can we profile this? " but

can we profile this? " but
before they could figure that

before they could figure that
out, two more women went

out, two more women went
missing. >> I opened my office

missing. >> I opened my office
door after hearing a knock, and

door after hearing a knock, and
there were several students

there were several students
there, and they said to me,

there, and they said to me,
"rosalind thorpe is missing."

"rosalind thorpe is missing."
>> 23-year-old rosalind thorpe

>> 23-year-old rosalind thorpe
disappeared after getting out

disappeared after getting out
of an evening class, and she

of an evening class, and she
was hitching a ride off the uc

was hitching a ride off the uc
campus. >> and because there

campus. >> and because there
were all these rumors about

were all these rumors about
coeds being killed, they were

coeds being killed, they were
very concerned about her. I

very concerned about her. I
knew her from the time I came

knew her from the time I came
as a counseling psychologist in

as a counseling psychologist in
April of'69, so I knew her as a

April of'69, so I knew her as a
bouncy, energized, enthusiastic,

bouncy, energized, enthusiastic,
adventurous, willing to take

adventurous, willing to take
chances -- a real mensch. As it

chances -- a real mensch. As it
turned out, another student, a

turned out, another student, a
quiet asian young woman by the

quiet asian young woman by the
name of alice liu, went missing

name of alice liu, went missing
the same night. They were seen

the same night. They were seen
waiting for a hitchhike on

waiting for a hitchhike on
campus. >> alice liu and

campus. >> alice liu and
rosalind thorpe were last seen

rosalind thorpe were last seen
February 5th while hitchhiking

February 5th while hitchhiking
from campus. >> alice liu and

from campus. >> alice liu and
rosalind thorpe, they didn't

rosalind thorpe, they didn't
even know each other. >> the

even know each other. >> the
girls were picked up at the

girls were picked up at the
foot of the campus. >> he was

foot of the campus. >> he was
not threatening to them. He

not threatening to them. He
looked like a regular guy who

looked like a regular guy who
was just out to give them a

was just out to give them a
nice ride.

Nice ride.

>> welcome back to "very scary
people." by February 1973, the

people." by February 1973, the
city of santa cruz was in a

city of santa cruz was in a
panic. So many murders, people

panic. So many murders, people
of all ages and types. Men,

of all ages and types. Men,
women, no one felt safe. The

women, no one felt safe. The
killings seemed random, but

killings seemed random, but
many of the victims were young

many of the victims were young
women, college students last

women, college students last
seen hitchhiking. They would

seen hitchhiking. They would
have no idea that the shy man

have no idea that the shy man
who picked them up had dark

who picked them up had dark
secrets and a violent past. >>

secrets and a violent past. >>
in December of 1969, a young

in December of 1969, a young
man walks out of atascadero

man walks out of atascadero
state hospital in southern

state hospital in southern
california. He was there for

california. He was there for
killing his grandparents when

killing his grandparents when
he was just 15 years old. He

he was just 15 years old. He
shot his grandmother once in

shot his grandmother once in
the back of the head and twice

the back of the head and twice
in the back. >> and then after

in the back. >> and then after
he kills his grandmother, his

he kills his grandmother, his
grandfather comes home, and he

grandfather comes home, and he
explains this as, "well, I

explains this as, "well, I
can't have my grandfather be

can't have my grandfather be
upset to see his wife dead, so

upset to see his wife dead, so
I might as well kill him too."

I might as well kill him too."
and so he shot and killed his

and so he shot and killed his
grandfather as well, whom he

grandfather as well, whom he
actually had a very close

actually had a very close
relationship with. >> he then

relationship with. >> he then
goes inside, picks up the phone,

goes inside, picks up the phone,
calls his mother, confesses the

calls his mother, confesses the
whole thing to her, and she

whole thing to her, and she
tells him, "you need to call

tells him, "you need to call
the police." he goes, calls the

the police." he goes, calls the
police, confesses, and they

police, confesses, and they
take him into custody. >> so he

take him into custody. >> so he
went to court, and he was

went to court, and he was
essentially found insane,

essentially found insane,
legally insane. >> he was

legally insane. >> he was
sentenced to serve his time as

sentenced to serve his time as
a juvenile at atascadero state

a juvenile at atascadero state
hospital in atascadero, and

hospital in atascadero, and
that was a place that a lot of

that was a place that a lot of
criminals with mental illnesses

criminals with mental illnesses
were housed. >> back then,

were housed. >> back then,
atascadero was a place for

atascadero was a place for
sexual deviants, pedophiles,

sexual deviants, pedophiles,
rapists. It's about the worst

rapists. It's about the worst
place for a young man to come

place for a young man to come
of age. >> I was 15 years old

of age. >> I was 15 years old
when I went there. >> I can

when I went there. >> I can
only imagine what it must've

only imagine what it must've
been like for ed being in a

been like for ed being in a
mental hospital in his teenage

mental hospital in his teenage
years, when all of a sudden

years, when all of a sudden
your body hormones start

your body hormones start
screaming at you. I can only

screaming at you. I can only
imagine what demons were coming

imagine what demons were coming
out while he was maturing from

out while he was maturing from
a boy into an adult. When he

a boy into an adult. When he
went to the mental hospital,

went to the mental hospital,
they ran the whole gamut of

they ran the whole gamut of
tests on him, and they felt

tests on him, and they felt
that he was criminally insane,

that he was criminally insane,
and then started treating him.

And then started treating him.
Well, it turns out he was a

well, it turns out he was a
model prisoner, and he was very

model prisoner, and he was very
smart, and he figured out what

smart, and he figured out what
the game was with the doctors

the game was with the doctors
all along. >> he's a highly

all along. >> he's a highly
manipulative person. >> he got

manipulative person. >> he got
involved in administering tests

involved in administering tests
to other patients, and he

to other patients, and he
learned from them. >> and what

learned from them. >> and what
he's basically learning is

he's basically learning is
terminology, diagnoses,

terminology, diagnoses,
criteria, various mental

criteria, various mental
disorders, and he's going to

disorders, and he's going to
use this information that he's

use this information that he's
got to convince the staff that

got to convince the staff that
they cured him. So he became

they cured him. So he became
very, very familiar with the

very, very familiar with the
different tests, how they're

different tests, how they're
interpreted, how they're scored,

interpreted, how they're scored,
and so on. >> he learned what

and so on. >> he learned what
the correct answers were, he

the correct answers were, he
knew how to manipulate it. And

knew how to manipulate it. And
he was very bright and

he was very bright and
knowledgeable about issues of

knowledgeable about issues of
psychiatry. >> he was nice and

psychiatry. >> he was nice and
quiet. He took pride in his

quiet. He took pride in his
work. >> he's smart enough to

work. >> he's smart enough to
know that he should keep

know that he should keep
fantasies private and keep it

fantasies private and keep it
to himself. When you get

to himself. When you get
evaluated by a psychiatrist,

evaluated by a psychiatrist,
psychologist, or some other

psychologist, or some other
mental health person, they can

mental health person, they can
only know what's in your mind

only know what's in your mind
if you reveal it to them. And

if you reveal it to them. And
when you look at him, he's not

when you look at him, he's not
psychotic, he doesn't hear

psychotic, he doesn't hear
voices, he's not delusional,

voices, he's not delusional,
he's not a behavior problem.

He's not a behavior problem.
He's bright, he's friendly,

he's bright, he's friendly,
likable. >> he was smart. He

likable. >> he was smart. He
was very smart. At one point,

was very smart. At one point,
he was given an iq test. He

he was given an iq test. He
scored a 140, which is

scored a 140, which is
considered highly intelligent.

Considered highly intelligent.
>> ironically, I have a high

>> ironically, I have a high
iq. I always thought I was a

iq. I always thought I was a
little missing up here, a

little missing up here, a
little short. >> so they really

little short. >> so they really
trusted him, and they trusted

trusted him, and they trusted
that he was being

that he was being
rehabilitated. He seemed like a

rehabilitated. He seemed like a
good, moral citizen. At least

good, moral citizen. At least
that's what everyone thought at

that's what everyone thought at
the time. >> he knew what it

the time. >> he knew what it
took to get considered

took to get considered
non-dangerous and to be

non-dangerous and to be
released from atascadero, and

released from atascadero, and
he did it. >> after spending

he did it. >> after spending
five years in atascadero, he

five years in atascadero, he
got released at age 21. The

got released at age 21. The
staff at atascadero had

staff at atascadero had
recommended that he not go back

recommended that he not go back
into society fully, that he go

into society fully, that he go
to a halfway house. The doctors

to a halfway house. The doctors
were adamant about one thing --

were adamant about one thing --
that the 21-year-old should

that the 21-year-old should
stay far away from his mother.

Stay far away from his mother.
>> my mother was a sick, angry,

>> my mother was a sick, angry,
hungry, and very sad woman. I

hungry, and very sad woman. I
hated her. >> california youth

hated her. >> california youth
authority had a different idea,

authority had a different idea,
and they released him to the

and they released him to the
custody of his mother. >> he

custody of his mother. >> he
was released to the one person

was released to the one person
that authorities at the state

that authorities at the state
mental hospital recommended he

mental hospital recommended he
never see again. >> his mother

never see again. >> his mother
was now working on the campus

was now working on the campus
of uc santa cruz. But this was

of uc santa cruz. But this was
a woman who had been harassing

a woman who had been harassing
him since he was a child. >> I

him since he was a child. >> I
had an upbringing that was,

had an upbringing that was,
some have called dysfunctional.

Some have called dysfunctional.
>> his parents didn't get

>> his parents didn't get
along. They fought all the

along. They fought all the
time. His mother was an

time. His mother was an
alcoholic. >> I was very

alcoholic. >> I was very
intimidated by her. She's 6

intimidated by her. She's 6
feet tall, she weighs 2 and a

feet tall, she weighs 2 and a
quarter, 225 pounds. She's just

quarter, 225 pounds. She's just
this great big woman who I was

this great big woman who I was
terrified of. >> his father

terrified of. >> his father
decides to leave the family,

decides to leave the family,
and he took that as an

and he took that as an
abandonment, I suppose you

abandonment, I suppose you
could say, but he also lost

could say, but he also lost
someone who was keeping him in

someone who was keeping him in
check. >> his mother is very

check. >> his mother is very
unbalanced. He quotes his

unbalanced. He quotes his
father as saying serving in the

father as saying serving in the
war was easier than living with

war was easier than living with
his wife. >> she wanted him to

his wife. >> she wanted him to
change this, she wanted him to

change this, she wanted him to
change that, and he couldn't

change that, and he couldn't
handle that. After 13 years,

handle that. After 13 years,
he'd had enough. >> so his

he'd had enough. >> so his
mother moves the family to

mother moves the family to
montana after she divorces and

montana after she divorces and
separates from her husband. >>

separates from her husband. >>
my mother, she tried

my mother, she tried
psychological tactics. She

psychological tactics. She
tried, "I'm going to put you in

tried, "I'm going to put you in
an orphanage. I'm going to

an orphanage. I'm going to
disavow you." and terror

disavow you." and terror
tactics -- "okay, we're going

tactics -- "okay, we're going
to eat dinner and I'm going to

to eat dinner and I'm going to
beat your [bleep] afterwards, "

beat your [bleep] afterwards, "
you know, so I could think

you know, so I could think
about it for a half hour. >>

about it for a half hour. >>
his sisters picked on him also.

His sisters picked on him also.
>> he had two sisters, an older

>> he had two sisters, an older
sister and a younger one. >>

sister and a younger one. >>
they constantly berated him,

they constantly berated him,
constantly made fun of him,

constantly made fun of him,
constantly teased him. >> he

constantly teased him. >> he
said that he was teased and

said that he was teased and
bullied a lot in school. He was

bullied a lot in school. He was
a big, goofy sort of guy, way

a big, goofy sort of guy, way
larger than most of the other

larger than most of the other
classmates. And young kids are

classmates. And young kids are
always looking for someone to

always looking for someone to
target and to make fun of. >> I

target and to make fun of. >> I
always felt like an outsider,

always felt like an outsider,
and that's again because I

and that's again because I
didn't ever fit in. >> on top

didn't ever fit in. >> on top
of all that, his mother made

of all that, his mother made
her son live in the basement.

Her son live in the basement.
>> she banished him to the

>> she banished him to the
basement, just didn't want him

basement, just didn't want him
around, didn't want him talking

around, didn't want him talking
to her. >> my mother and my

to her. >> my mother and my
sisters themselves would go up

sisters themselves would go up
to bed upstairs. Why am I going

to bed upstairs. Why am I going
to the basement? I'm going to

to the basement? I'm going to
hell, they're going to heaven.

Hell, they're going to heaven.
>> it was a basement in which

>> it was a basement in which
there was very little light

there was very little light
except from the furnace. >> and

except from the furnace. >> and
I've got this horrible terror

I've got this horrible terror
going on inside of me. This is

going on inside of me. This is
every night, this is every day

every night, this is every day
because it's pitch black down

because it's pitch black down
there. No windows. And I would

there. No windows. And I would
go off into fantasy worlds that

go off into fantasy worlds that
got vengeance on my enemies, it

got vengeance on my enemies, it
got even with the bullies who

got even with the bullies who
picked on the kids and me in

picked on the kids and me in
school, it got even with

school, it got even with
someone who slighted me. >> for

someone who slighted me. >> for
about eight months or so, he

about eight months or so, he
was sleeping in the basement,

was sleeping in the basement,
and he's a young child at this

and he's a young child at this
point. >> when I sniveled about

point. >> when I sniveled about
it, when I complained and I

it, when I complained and I
cried about it, I got smacked

cried about it, I got smacked
in the head. "what's the matter

in the head. "what's the matter
with you? Quit being such a

with you? Quit being such a
wimp." >> he hated his mother,

wimp." >> he hated his mother,
and I think it's probably fair

and I think it's probably fair
to say that his mother probably

to say that his mother probably
hated him as well, at least at

hated him as well, at least at
some level. She humiliated him,

some level. She humiliated him,
belittled him. >> so, when

belittled him. >> so, when
21-year-old edmund kemper was

21-year-old edmund kemper was
released from the hospital to

released from the hospital to
go live with his mom, only the

go live with his mom, only the
doctors would have known that

doctors would have known that
it was a bad idea. >> it didn't

it was a bad idea. >> it didn't
take long for the two of them

take long for the two of them
to be at each other's throats

to be at each other's throats
again. >> 21-year-old edmund

again. >> 21-year-old edmund
kemper was ready to be released

kemper was ready to be released
back into society. He'd spent

back into society. He'd spent
six years living in a

six years living in a

>> 21-year-old edmund kemper
was ready to be released back

was ready to be released back
into society. He'd spent six

into society. He'd spent six
years living in a mental

years living in a mental
hospital for killing his

hospital for killing his
grandparents. >> he comes out

grandparents. >> he comes out
into the world, and he's very

into the world, and he's very
thrown by what he's

thrown by what he's
experiencing. >> I've never

experiencing. >> I've never
been on a date. You know? I was

been on a date. You know? I was
locked up since I was 15. >>

locked up since I was 15. >>
and the world he was released

and the world he was released
to was very different from the

to was very different from the
one of five years earlier. >>

one of five years earlier. >>
in the late'60s, early'70s,

in the late'60s, early'70s,
santa cruz became like a mecca

santa cruz became like a mecca
for the hippie generation. >>

for the hippie generation. >>
there's free love, people are

there's free love, people are
having sex freely. >> I was

having sex freely. >> I was
scared to death of failing at

scared to death of failing at
male-female relationships. I

male-female relationships. I
knew absolutely nothing about

knew absolutely nothing about
that whole area, even if just

that whole area, even if just
sitting down and talking with a

sitting down and talking with a
young lady. >> the mother is

young lady. >> the mother is
still telling him he's not good

still telling him he's not good
enough. He'll never date girls,

enough. He'll never date girls,
he'll never be seen as

he'll never be seen as
desirable, and he will never be

desirable, and he will never be
successful with women. >> I

successful with women. >> I
need to be able to really

need to be able to really
communicate, and ironically

communicate, and ironically
enough, that's why I began

enough, that's why I began
picking up young women. >> he

picking up young women. >> he
started picking up hitchhikers

started picking up hitchhikers
in his car, driving them around,

in his car, driving them around,
getting to know them, flirting

getting to know them, flirting
with them in his way. >> he's

with them in his way. >> he's
learning, how do you relate to

learning, how do you relate to
them? What do you say? How do

them? What do you say? How do
you make small talk? What are

you make small talk? What are
they like? What do they say to

they like? What do they say to
you? And he gets pretty good at

you? And he gets pretty good at
it, and he has a good ability

it, and he has a good ability
to put people at ease. The

to put people at ease. The
women are seeing a nice,

women are seeing a nice,
friendly guy. >> but all that

friendly guy. >> but all that
time, he is having really

time, he is having really
violent fantasies about these

violent fantasies about these
women and all the plans that

women and all the plans that
he's sort of making and gearing

he's sort of making and gearing
up towards. It's constantly in

up towards. It's constantly in
his mind. >> and I'm going a

his mind. >> and I'm going a
little bit farther each time.

Little bit farther each time.
It's a daring kind of a thing.

It's a daring kind of a thing.
At first there wasn't a gun.

At first there wasn't a gun.
I'm driving along, we go to a

I'm driving along, we go to a
vulnerable place where there

vulnerable place where there
aren't people watching, where I

aren't people watching, where I
could act out, and I say, "no,

could act out, and I say, "no,
I can't." >> during this time,

I can't." >> during this time,
ed kemper claimed that he had

ed kemper claimed that he had
given over 100 rides to women

given over 100 rides to women
hitchhikers. >> I think a lot

hitchhikers. >> I think a lot
of people wonder how kemper got

of people wonder how kemper got
all these young women into his

all these young women into his
car, because he's this 6'9",

car, because he's this 6'9",
300-pound guy. He's not the

300-pound guy. He's not the
type of man who looks safe to

type of man who looks safe to
hitch a ride from. >> I'm a

hitch a ride from. >> I'm a
single male young adult,

single male young adult,
two-door car. They're not gonna

two-door car. They're not gonna
wanna get in and ride with me.

Wanna get in and ride with me.
I made that a challenge, almost

I made that a challenge, almost
like a chess game. >> and the

like a chess game. >> and the
reason he was able to do it is

reason he was able to do it is
because he did so many test

because he did so many test
runs. He did about a year of

runs. He did about a year of
test runs where he didn't kill

test runs where he didn't kill
any women, didn't assault any

any women, didn't assault any
women. He would just go pick up

women. He would just go pick up
hitchhikers. So there are

hitchhikers. So there are
dozens of women out there that

dozens of women out there that
had perfectly normal rides. He

had perfectly normal rides. He
tried to figure out what made

tried to figure out what made
women feel comfortable getting

women feel comfortable getting
in the car with him. So he

in the car with him. So he
would test out various

would test out various
techniques. One of the things

techniques. One of the things
was he would glance at his

was he would glance at his
watch as the woman was getting

watch as the woman was getting
in the car, and that was sort

in the car, and that was sort
of a subtle signal to her that

of a subtle signal to her that
this guy is a businessman, he's

this guy is a businessman, he's
in a hurry, he needs to go. >>

in a hurry, he needs to go. >>
just a glance at my watch, look

just a glance at my watch, look
slightly irritated, and, "oh,

slightly irritated, and, "oh,
well, I guess I can stop and

well, I guess I can stop and
give this person a ride." it

give this person a ride." it
seemed to have a very positive

seemed to have a very positive
effect. >> he figured out a way

effect. >> he figured out a way
of locking the door from the

of locking the door from the
inside, the passenger seat, by

inside, the passenger seat, by
dropping a chapstick into the

dropping a chapstick into the
locking mechanism, and the

locking mechanism, and the
girls couldn't get out. >> he

girls couldn't get out. >> he
would say, "oh, ma'am, the

would say, "oh, ma'am, the
door's not closed all the way,

door's not closed all the way,
" and reach over in the car,

" and reach over in the car,
and he would take that

and he would take that
chapstick and he would put it

chapstick and he would put it
in the locking mechanism so

in the locking mechanism so
once the car door closed, the

once the car door closed, the
woman could then not open the

woman could then not open the
door from the inside. >> do you

door from the inside. >> do you
do any hitchhiking these days?

Do any hitchhiking these days?
>> nope, not now. No way. I'm

>> nope, not now. No way. I'm
not gonna take any chances. >>

not gonna take any chances. >>
if I was driving down the hill

if I was driving down the hill
and I saw students hitchhiking,

and I saw students hitchhiking,
I would stop my car, open my

I would stop my car, open my
window and yell at them, and

window and yell at them, and
tell them not to hitchhike,

tell them not to hitchhike,
that it was much too dangerous.

That it was much too dangerous.
>> I did a story where I got in

>> I did a story where I got in
my car and drove up to the ucsc

my car and drove up to the ucsc
campus, and picked up women

campus, and picked up women
hitchhikers, and interviewed

hitchhikers, and interviewed
them about why they were

them about why they were
hitchhiking. And I said, "you

hitchhiking. And I said, "you
know, I could be one of the

know, I could be one of the
murderers." and they said, "oh,

murderers." and they said, "oh,
you seem like a nice guy. I

you seem like a nice guy. I
don't think that that would

don't think that that would
happen." one hitchhiker girl

happen." one hitchhiker girl
got in my car, and I said, "are

got in my car, and I said, "are
you afraid to hitchhike? " and

you afraid to hitchhike? " and
she said, "no, I carry this can

she said, "no, I carry this can
of mace. See? " and she handed

of mace. See? " and she handed
it to me, and I thought, "well,

it to me, and I thought, "well,
that's not very smart." >> it

that's not very smart." >> it
was shocking to see that even

was shocking to see that even
with all the warnings, that

with all the warnings, that
some of the students didn't

some of the students didn't
change their behavior. >> we

change their behavior. >> we
did have administrative

did have administrative
meetings about what should be

meetings about what should be
changed with regard to

changed with regard to
protecting our students. It was

protecting our students. It was
then they decided that if they

then they decided that if they
hitchhiked with somebody with a

hitchhiked with somebody with a
parking sticker from the campus,

parking sticker from the campus,
that probably is okay. They're

that probably is okay. They're
campus people. They're staff

campus people. They're staff
and faculty of the university,

and faculty of the university,
and obviously, they couldn't

and obviously, they couldn't
have had anything to do with

have had anything to do with
these murders. >> what no one

these murders. >> what no one
realized at the time was the

realized at the time was the
man they were looking for had a

man they were looking for had a
university parking sticker on

university parking sticker on
his car. >> his mother worked

his car. >> his mother worked
on campus. >> he would go pick

on campus. >> he would go pick
her up at work sometimes, and

her up at work sometimes, and
so he got a little sticker that

so he got a little sticker that
he could put on the car that

he could put on the car that
gave him all access to campus.

Gave him all access to campus.
>> listen, I had an "a" sticker

>> listen, I had an "a" sticker
on my car and obvious access,

on my car and obvious access,
day or night, to the campus. I

day or night, to the campus. I
was picking up some very lovely

was picking up some very lovely
young women. You know what we

young women. You know what we
were talking about as we're

were talking about as we're
driving around, almost as often

driving around, almost as often
as not? This guy that's going

as not? This guy that's going
around doing this stuff. You

around doing this stuff. You
know, but they'd be telling me

know, but they'd be telling me
all about this guy, and they're

all about this guy, and they're
comparing notes and speculating

comparing notes and speculating
on what he looks like, how he

on what he looks like, how he
carries himself, why he's doing

carries himself, why he's doing
this stuff. Telling me about

this stuff. Telling me about
it. >> he had the method, he

it. >> he had the method, he
had the experience, he had the

had the experience, he had the
tool with the chapstick, and he

tool with the chapstick, and he
had the uc sticker. So the

had the uc sticker. So the
stage was set for what was to

stage was set for what was to
come. >> female hitchhikers

come. >> female hitchhikers
were disappearing around the

were disappearing around the
city of

city of

>> female hitchhikers were
disappearing around the city of

disappearing around the city of
santa cruz, and other people

santa cruz, and other people
were turning up stabbed or shot

were turning up stabbed or shot
to death for no apparent

to death for no apparent
reason. And there were no

reason. And there were no
clues. >> we thought that there

clues. >> we thought that there
was a possibility that it could

was a possibility that it could
be two different people because

be two different people because
of the various styles of

of the various styles of
murders, but we didn't know for

murders, but we didn't know for
sure because the country had

sure because the country had
never seen anything like this

never seen anything like this
before. >> so, from a

before. >> so, from a
perspective of law enforcement,

perspective of law enforcement,
it's hard to believe that there

it's hard to believe that there
are two serial killers

are two serial killers
operating in the same location

operating in the same location
at the same time. >> it was

at the same time. >> it was
hard to believe there weren't

hard to believe there weren't
any clues. But then one day,

any clues. But then one day,
police got a big break. >> a

police got a big break. >> a
lady had come out and picked up

lady had come out and picked up
her newspaper, heard what she

her newspaper, heard what she
thought was a gunshot, and out

thought was a gunshot, and out
of the corner of her eye, she

of the corner of her eye, she
saw her neighbor, who was just

saw her neighbor, who was just
out working in his yard, fall.

Out working in his yard, fall.
And there was an older model

and there was an older model
chevrolet station wagon stopped

chevrolet station wagon stopped
on the street. And she saw a

on the street. And she saw a
man pulling his gun back to the

man pulling his gun back to the
front seat. So she called the

front seat. So she called the
police. >> the vehicle

police. >> the vehicle
description was put out over

description was put out over
the radio. An officer from

the radio. An officer from
santa cruz police department

santa cruz police department
spotted what appeared to be the

spotted what appeared to be the
same vehicle. >> and the santa

same vehicle. >> and the santa
cruz police department arrested

cruz police department arrested
herbert mullin. >> herbert

herbert mullin. >> herbert
mullin was a local boy who had

mullin was a local boy who had
obviously severe mental

obviously severe mental
problems. I think he was

problems. I think he was
probably as criminally insane

probably as criminally insane
as anybody could be. >> with

as anybody could be. >> with
the interviews that we had with

the interviews that we had with
mullin, it was ascertained that

mullin, it was ascertained that
he was more likely the one that

he was more likely the one that
was doing the killings by

was doing the killings by
shooting people. We had

shooting people. We had
evidence of his rifle being

evidence of his rifle being
used in numerous killings, and

used in numerous killings, and
those were matched up with the

those were matched up with the
bullets. >> it was an amazing

bullets. >> it was an amazing
turn of events. Who could've

turn of events. Who could've
guessed that there could be two

guessed that there could be two
serial killers in the same town?

Serial killers in the same town?
>> 25-year-old herbert mullin

>> 25-year-old herbert mullin
has been charged with 10 of the

has been charged with 10 of the
santa cruz murders. >> he was

santa cruz murders. >> he was
very delusional, he was hearing

very delusional, he was hearing
voices. >> and he would have to

voices. >> and he would have to
listen to the voices and go out

listen to the voices and go out
and murder people. He is

and murder people. He is
obsessed with this idea that if

obsessed with this idea that if
he can commit small, what he

he can commit small, what he
calls "natural disasters, " he

calls "natural disasters, " he
can prevent a huge earthquake

can prevent a huge earthquake
from taking out california. >>

from taking out california. >>
herbert mullin ultimately

herbert mullin ultimately
confessed to 13 murders. That

confessed to 13 murders. That
included a priest who was found

included a priest who was found
murdered in his confessional

murdered in his confessional
and a homeless man who was

and a homeless man who was
beaten to death. He had killed

beaten to death. He had killed
basically a hobo who was just

basically a hobo who was just
walking down the street one day,

walking down the street one day,
and he had this strange feeling

and he had this strange feeling
and he wanted to see what was

and he wanted to see what was
inside him. And so he shot him.

Inside him. And so he shot him.
>> because he wanted to

>> because he wanted to
determine if there was signs of

determine if there was signs of
pollution in the victim's

pollution in the victim's
internal organs. >> however,

internal organs. >> however,
mullin's alleged connection

mullin's alleged connection
with death has not involved the

with death has not involved the
cutting up of the victims. >>

cutting up of the victims. >>
there are also a number of

there are also a number of
unsolved murders in this area.

Unsolved murders in this area.
Four of these victims were

four of these victims were
coeds from nearby uc. At least

coeds from nearby uc. At least
two other young women are

two other young women are
missing and feared dead. >> we

missing and feared dead. >> we
have five unsolved murders of

have five unsolved murders of
coeds, local coeds from the

coeds, local coeds from the
university of california in

university of california in
santa cruz and also cabrillo

santa cruz and also cabrillo
college, which is a local

college, which is a local
junior college. >> we couldn't

junior college. >> we couldn't
link them together. >> so, the

link them together. >> so, the
coed killer was still on the

coed killer was still on the
loose, and cops had no leads

loose, and cops had no leads
about who he could be. >> at a

about who he could be. >> at a
time when pressure is on for

time when pressure is on for
the police officers, the jury

the police officers, the jury
room was a place where they

room was a place where they
could come in, relax, have a

could come in, relax, have a
few drinks, and enjoy

few drinks, and enjoy
themselves. >> the jury room

themselves. >> the jury room
was a working man's bar right

was a working man's bar right
across the street from the

across the street from the
sheriff's office. It's where

sheriff's office. It's where
police officers would go unwind

police officers would go unwind
after a long shift. >> and of

after a long shift. >> and of
course, the drinks would loosen

course, the drinks would loosen
them up a little bit, and they

them up a little bit, and they
would start telling stories

would start telling stories
about what was going on. One of

about what was going on. One of
the regulars at the bar was a

the regulars at the bar was a
guy whose whole goal in life

guy whose whole goal in life
was to become a cop. >> because

was to become a cop. >> because
he's 6'9", and at that time

he's 6'9", and at that time
there were very strict height

there were very strict height
requirements, you couldn't be

requirements, you couldn't be
above a certain height. And so

above a certain height. And so
this was second best. >> he was

this was second best. >> he was
like what, you know, people

like what, you know, people
call a "wannabe police

call a "wannabe police
officer." >> he found himself

officer." >> he found himself
drawn to the jury room, and he

drawn to the jury room, and he
started hanging out with the

started hanging out with the
cops. These were his people. >>

cops. These were his people. >>
everybody kind of knows him.

Everybody kind of knows him.
He's a little bit goofy, he's a

he's a little bit goofy, he's a
little bit annoying, but the

little bit annoying, but the
cops all really kind of like

cops all really kind of like
him. >> they knew him as "big

him. >> they knew him as "big
ed." >> they'd buy me a beer,

ed." >> they'd buy me a beer,
I'd buy them a beer. >> did the

I'd buy them a beer. >> did the
cops like you? >> like I said,

cops like you? >> like I said,
a friendly nuisance. I got in

a friendly nuisance. I got in
the way. And it was deliberate.

The way. And it was deliberate.
Again, friendly nuisances are

again, friendly nuisances are
dismissed. >> and of course one

dismissed. >> and of course one
of the topics of conversation

of the topics of conversation
in the bar is who is the coed

in the bar is who is the coed
killer. >> he was asking them,

killer. >> he was asking them,
have they found this guy? Had

have they found this guy? Had
they any clues as to who this

they any clues as to who this
person was who was killing

person was who was killing
these coeds? >> I was poking

these coeds? >> I was poking
around a little bit, trying to

around a little bit, trying to
find some things out. I knew

find some things out. I knew
they wouldn't be privy to hot

they wouldn't be privy to hot
information, but there were

information, but there were
some things that were bothering

some things that were bothering
me, like were there any

me, like were there any
speculations on how they were

speculations on how they were
dying. >> little did we know

dying. >> little did we know
that the person that we were

that the person that we were
looking for was in the same bar

looking for was in the same bar
drinking with us. >> in a

drinking with us. >> in a
million years, they never

million years, they never
suspected he was the person who

suspected he was the person who
was killing these coeds. >> I

was killing these coeds. >> I
was dreaming, thinking,

was dreaming, thinking,
fantasizing murder all day

fantasizing murder all day
long. I couldn't get it out of

long. I couldn't get it out of
my head. >> he was in such a

my head. >> he was in such a
blind rage, he gets in his car

blind rage, he gets in his car
and he decided, no matter who

and he decided, no matter who
got in the car, he was going to

got in the car, he was going to
kill them that night. >> if

kill them that night. >> if
you've ever smelled death, you

you've ever smelled death, you
know that that's what was going

know that that's what was going
on in that apartment. >> it

on in that apartment. >> it
wasn't the aspect of killing

wasn't the aspect of killing
them, it was the aspect of

them, it was the aspect of
possessing their bodies

possessing their bodies
afterwards. >> I could actually

afterwards. >> I could actually
feel the blood drain out of my

feel the blood drain out of my
body. I just turned cold all

body. I just turned cold all
over. >> I was building up big

over. >> I was building up big
loads of frustration inside,

loads of frustration inside,
big loads of hatred because I

big loads of hatred because I
had no outlet for it. >> I

had no outlet for it. >> I
think the paranoia was building

think the paranoia was building
and building and building, and

and building and building, and
it was starting to make him

it was starting to make him
feel like he was cracking. >>

feel like he was cracking. >>
I'm thinking all these horrible

I'm thinking all these horrible
things. >> and eventually, it

things. >> and eventually, it
just has to end. What's he

just has to end. What's he
gonna do? >> police were

gonna do? >> police were
desperate to find the coed

desperate to find the coed
killer before he struck again.

Killer before he struck again.
Big ed, the cop wannabe who

big ed, the cop wannabe who
hung out at the jury room bar,

hung out at the jury room bar,
continued to joke with

continued to joke with
detectives and quiz them about

detectives and quiz them about
the case. He wanted to know if

the case. He wanted to know if
they were getting close. Behind

they were getting close. Behind
his smile, a rage was building.

His smile, a rage was building.
There was gonna be another

there was gonna be another
murder. In part two of "the

murder. In part two of "the
coed killer." I'm donnie

coed killer." I'm donnie
wahlberg. Thanks for watching.

Wahlberg. Thanks for watching.
Goodnight.

Goodnight.