Original subtitles

And increasingly sick life. I'm picking up young women, and I'm

picking up young women, and I'm going a little bit farther each

going a little bit farther each time. This fantastic passion,

time. This fantastic passion, it was like drugs. It was like

it was like drugs. It was like alcohol. A little isn't enough.

Alcohol. A little isn't enough. At first, it is, and as you

at first, it is, and as you adjust to that psychologically

adjust to that psychologically and physically, you take more

and physically, you take more and more and more. It's the

and more and more. It's the same process. >> welcome to

same process. >> welcome to "very scary people." I'm donnie

"very scary people." I'm donnie wahlberg. In the early'70s,

wahlberg. In the early'70s, santa cruz, california, was a

santa cruz, california, was a paradise -- beautiful weather,

paradise -- beautiful weather, ocean beaches, friendly, laid

ocean beaches, friendly, laid back -- until young women

back -- until young women started disappearing. It was

started disappearing. It was hard to imagine what was really

hard to imagine what was really happening. There was a killer

happening. There was a killer on the loose, and the city had

on the loose, and the city had become a hunting ground. Soon

become a hunting ground. Soon it would be known as the

it would be known as the "murder capital of the world."

"murder capital of the world." >> anita luchessa and mary anne

>> anita luchessa and mary anne pesce were roommates at fresno

pesce were roommates at fresno state, and they were

state, and they were hitchhiking to stanford. >>

hitchhiking to stanford. >> hitchhiking at that time was

hitchhiking at that time was part of the youth culture. I

part of the youth culture. I mean, it was just what

mean, it was just what everybody did wherever they

everybody did wherever they went. >> anita was 18, from a

went. >> anita was 18, from a farming community, and it was

farming community, and it was her first time hitchhiking.

Her first time hitchhiking. Mary anne was from outside l.A.

Mary anne was from outside l.A. She was also 18, and she was

she was also 18, and she was one of five kids. >> it seems

one of five kids. >> it seems like he's a normal guy. They

like he's a normal guy. They treat him fairly normally in

treat him fairly normally in the car. He's having a very

the car. He's having a very normal conversation with them.

Normal conversation with them. >> they don't know they're in

>> they don't know they're in danger. >> he's looking back in

danger. >> he's looking back in the window, trying to figure

the window, trying to figure out, "are they casing me? Are

out, "are they casing me? Are they looking at me funny? " no,

they looking at me funny? " no, everything seems to be on the

everything seems to be on the level with these girls. They're

level with these girls. They're just trying to get to their

just trying to get to their destination. They don't suspect

destination. They don't suspect a thing. Because he knows the

a thing. Because he knows the highways so well, it's really

highways so well, it's really easy for him to kind of take a

easy for him to kind of take a turn, take a turn. The girls

turn, take a turn. The girls don't realize they're off track

don't realize they're off track from their destinations. He's

from their destinations. He's able to get them to a rural

able to get them to a rural area before they realize it. >>

area before they realize it. >> by this time, the girls figured

by this time, the girls figured out that something was terribly

out that something was terribly wrong, and they started to

wrong, and they started to freak out. >> he tells the

freak out. >> he tells the girls, "I'm not going to kill

girls, "I'm not going to kill you. I'm here to rape you, "

you. I'm here to rape you, " essentially. He thinks that's

essentially. He thinks that's going to sort of calm them down

going to sort of calm them down a little bit. Obviously, this

a little bit. Obviously, this does not calm any woman, so

does not calm any woman, so they're fighting back against

they're fighting back against him. >> he quickly figures out

him. >> he quickly figures out that it's going to be easier if

that it's going to be easier if he separates the two girls. So

he separates the two girls. So he puts anita in the trunk, and

he puts anita in the trunk, and he stabs mary anne, who fights

he stabs mary anne, who fights for her life. After he kills

for her life. After he kills mary anne, he then has to deal

mary anne, he then has to deal with anita, who's in the trunk.

With anita, who's in the trunk. >> she has been in there the

>> she has been in there the entire time hearing what is

entire time hearing what is going on, so she has to know

going on, so she has to know that her friend is either

that her friend is either mortally wounded or dead, and

mortally wounded or dead, and she also has to know that

she also has to know that that's coming for her next. He

that's coming for her next. He opens up the trunk, where he

opens up the trunk, where he realizes he is covered in blood,

realizes he is covered in blood, but he doesn't want to alarm

but he doesn't want to alarm the other woman. And he tells

the other woman. And he tells her, "your friend got smart

her, "your friend got smart with me, so I had to hit her.

With me, so I had to hit her. That's why there's blood on

that's why there's blood on me." as if that's going to make

me." as if that's going to make this woman feel any better

this woman feel any better about the situation. But

about the situation. But there's something in his mind

there's something in his mind that seems to think, "this is

that seems to think, "this is how people talk to each other,

how people talk to each other, and maybe this will calm her."

and maybe this will calm her." >> so anita tries to get away

>> so anita tries to get away from him, but she never had a

from him, but she never had a chance. He stabs her before she

chance. He stabs her before she can get out of the trunk. >> so

can get out of the trunk. >> so he kills both women in this

he kills both women in this really frantic sort of scene.

Really frantic sort of scene. >> the horrible aspect of this

>> the horrible aspect of this is that he was pulled over by a

is that he was pulled over by a police officer when he had the

police officer when he had the two bodies in his trunk of his

two bodies in his trunk of his car. He had a broken tail

car. He had a broken tail light. >> he knows how to talk

light. >> he knows how to talk to police. He says, "oh, hey,

to police. He says, "oh, hey, sorry about that, officer. I'll

sorry about that, officer. I'll get that fixed." >> and he

get that fixed." >> and he invited the police officer to

invited the police officer to go ahead, "open the trunk if

go ahead, "open the trunk if you want to look in it." and he

you want to look in it." and he decided that he was going to

decided that he was going to have to murder the cop if he

have to murder the cop if he opened the trunk. But he never

opened the trunk. But he never did. So he drives off a free

did. So he drives off a free man. >> what happened next is

man. >> what happened next is truly unimaginable. He takes

truly unimaginable. He takes the bodies, takes them back to

the bodies, takes them back to his apartment. He dismembers

his apartment. He dismembers them. He particularly seems to

them. He particularly seems to enjoy beheading his victims. At

enjoy beheading his victims. At that point then, he'll rape the

that point then, he'll rape the bodies repeatedly, usually over

bodies repeatedly, usually over a couple of days. >> I was

a couple of days. >> I was working as a detective for the

working as a detective for the santa cruz sheriff's office. We

santa cruz sheriff's office. We got the report of a human head

got the report of a human head that was found up in loma

that was found up in loma prieta, which is in the

prieta, which is in the mountains back up out of santa

mountains back up out of santa cruz. It was decomposed to the

cruz. It was decomposed to the point where we couldn't

point where we couldn't identify the sex of the victim.

Identify the sex of the victim. So we brought it back to have

so we brought it back to have it analyzed and do all of the

it analyzed and do all of the forensic work on it. Through

forensic work on it. Through dental charts, we eventually

dental charts, we eventually discovered that it was a young

discovered that it was a young female out of fresno. >> I was

female out of fresno. >> I was a reporter for "the santa cruz

a reporter for "the santa cruz sentinel" newspaper, and the

sentinel" newspaper, and the first story I ever did for the

first story I ever did for the newspaper was that they had

newspaper was that they had identified the victim of a

identified the victim of a skull that was found. >> the

skull that was found. >> the head belonged to mary anne

head belonged to mary anne pesce, the fresno state

pesce, the fresno state student. She'd gone missing

student. She'd gone missing three months earlier with her

three months earlier with her roommate, anita. >> that was

roommate, anita. >> that was the atmosphere into which I

the atmosphere into which I stepped my very first day of

stepped my very first day of work, as a beginning reporter,

work, as a beginning reporter, in 1972. >> aiko koo was 15

in 1972. >> aiko koo was 15 years old, well-regarded sort

years old, well-regarded sort of dancer, up and coming. She

of dancer, up and coming. She had unfortunately missed the

had unfortunately missed the bus to go to her dance class in

bus to go to her dance class in san francisco, so she's out in

san francisco, so she's out in berkeley hitchhiking. She's got

berkeley hitchhiking. She's got a little sign saying where she

a little sign saying where she wants to go. >> a

wants to go. >> a 20-something-year-old man

20-something-year-old man offered her a ride. >> he takes

offered her a ride. >> he takes her on the highway, takes her

her on the highway, takes her on a different route. She

on a different route. She doesn't realize that they've

doesn't realize that they've totally missed where they

totally missed where they should've gone. >> he drives to

should've gone. >> he drives to the middle of nowhere. >> and

the middle of nowhere. >> and aiko koo was never seen again.

Aiko koo was never seen again. >> the information came into

>> the information came into the sheriff's office during

the sheriff's office during this time that there was a guy

this time that there was a guy who had apparently had a

who had apparently had a history of violence, and the

history of violence, and the cops had found out that he had

cops had found out that he had purchased a gun. >> we saw that

purchased a gun. >> we saw that he had been convicted of very

he had been convicted of very serious felonies in another

serious felonies in another jurisdiction and his record had

jurisdiction and his record had been sealed by a judge. So we

been sealed by a judge. So we made the decision, myself and

made the decision, myself and my partner, to go and

my partner, to go and confiscate the weapon and

confiscate the weapon and submit the information to our

submit the information to our local judge to get a judicial

local judge to get a judicial decision as to whether or not

decision as to whether or not he could own that handgun. >>

he could own that handgun. >> and the sheriff's department,

and the sheriff's department, in fact, they were kidding

in fact, they were kidding about it, they said, "this guy

about it, they said, "this guy is supposedly 6'9" and we've

is supposedly 6'9" and we've been asked to go take his gun

been asked to go take his gun away from him." >> everybody

away from him." >> everybody laughed and said, "well, we'll

laughed and said, "well, we'll give this to the new kid, "

give this to the new kid, " because I was the junior

because I was the junior >> santa cruz detectives had

>> santa cruz detectives had recently heard that a local man

recently heard that a local man had bought a gun illegally.

Had bought a gun illegally. They had found out about his

they had found out about his juvenile record, and they

juvenile record, and they realized he shouldn't have

realized he shouldn't have firearms in his house. And so

firearms in his house. And so they went out to talk to him.

They went out to talk to him. >> myself and my partner drove

>> myself and my partner drove out to aptos, which is like a

out to aptos, which is like a suburb of the city of santa

suburb of the city of santa cruz. And it's kind of a

cruz. And it's kind of a complicated neighborhood. There

complicated neighborhood. There were several places with the

were several places with the same address. So we couldn't

same address. So we couldn't find it. We knocked on some

find it. We knocked on some doors, couldn't find anything.

Doors, couldn't find anything. So, as we're getting ready to

so, as we're getting ready to leave, this car pulls up. I'll

leave, this car pulls up. I'll never forget it. And I told my

never forget it. And I told my partner, I said, "I'm going to

partner, I said, "I'm going to go ask him if he knows where

go ask him if he knows where this guy kemper is." so I go

this guy kemper is." so I go over there, and I said, "excuse

over there, and I said, "excuse me, can I talk to you for a

me, can I talk to you for a second? " and he said, "sure."

second? " and he said, "sure." so he got out of the car, and

so he got out of the car, and he got out of the car, and he

he got out of the car, and he got out of the car. And I told

got out of the car. And I told my partner, I says, "I think we

my partner, I says, "I think we found him, " because he is just

found him, " because he is just huge. He just towered over us.

Huge. He just towered over us. >> they were looking for me and

>> they were looking for me and didn't even know that it was

didn't even know that it was me. >> so, I told him what we

me. >> so, I told him what we were there for. And he said,

were there for. And he said, "oh, certainly, I understand."

"oh, certainly, I understand." he understood why we were

he understood why we were taking the gun. He says, "it's

taking the gun. He says, "it's in the house." he was very

in the house." he was very friendly. Seemed like a nice

friendly. Seemed like a nice guy, very personable, very

guy, very personable, very articulate. >> I don't wanna

articulate. >> I don't wanna advertise that I've got a whole

advertise that I've got a whole bunch of guns. Because that

bunch of guns. Because that loaded .22 was under the front

loaded .22 was under the front seat and would guarantee me an

seat and would guarantee me an arrest right on the spot. >> so

arrest right on the spot. >> so we go to the house, and he

we go to the house, and he walks in the front door. And we

walks in the front door. And we walk in the front door with

walk in the front door with him. There was a sofa there

him. There was a sofa there with somebody sleeping. And he

with somebody sleeping. And he says, "oh, wait a minute, " he

says, "oh, wait a minute, " he says, "that's my mother. She's

says, "that's my mother. She's asleep." >> the man leads them

asleep." >> the man leads them into his bedroom before he

into his bedroom before he realizes his mistake. >> and

realizes his mistake. >> and the closet door's open, and I

the closet door's open, and I have a high powered rifle with

have a high powered rifle with a scope on it. I had the

a scope on it. I had the personal effects and

personal effects and identification of the last two

identification of the last two coeds that had been murdered

coeds that had been murdered about two months before, right

about two months before, right next to the guns in the closet,

next to the guns in the closet, in a box. I back up, I said,

in a box. I back up, I said, "oh, excuse me, I just

"oh, excuse me, I just remembered something." >> so he

remembered something." >> so he said, "the gun, actually, it's

said, "the gun, actually, it's in the trunk of my car." so I

in the trunk of my car." so I said, "okay, let's go get it."

said, "okay, let's go get it." >> and instantly back we go

>> and instantly back we go outside, and he's still

outside, and he's still thinking, "boy, this is a

thinking, "boy, this is a really nice and helpful guy

really nice and helpful guy here." >> so I opened up the

here." >> so I opened up the trunk, and there was a bundle

trunk, and there was a bundle there. It was like in a

there. It was like in a lightweight blanket, it was

lightweight blanket, it was wrapped up in it. So, I opened

wrapped up in it. So, I opened it up, and there was the gun.

It up, and there was the gun. So, we took the gun and told

so, we took the gun and told him, "okay, we'll find out,

him, "okay, we'll find out, we'll let you know what

we'll let you know what happened." >> he willingly gave

happened." >> he willingly gave the gun up, and there was

the gun up, and there was nothing more said about it. >>

nothing more said about it. >> and of course detectives had no

and of course detectives had no idea that that man had killed

idea that that man had killed 15-year-old aiko koo two days

15-year-old aiko koo two days before, on her way to a ballet

before, on her way to a ballet class. >> nowhere in anybody's

class. >> nowhere in anybody's mind did they connect him with

mind did they connect him with these cases. But he did connect

these cases. But he did connect it. He thought, "oh, no,

it. He thought, "oh, no, they're onto me." >> extreme

they're onto me." >> extreme paranoia had set in with him.

Paranoia had set in with him. He thought that we were playing

he thought that we were playing cat and mouse with him and that

cat and mouse with him and that we knew what he was doing. >>

we knew what he was doing. >> but of course no one had a

but of course no one had a clue. >> the man was very

clue. >> the man was very careful to cover his tracks

careful to cover his tracks because he knew he had more

because he knew he had more killing to do. >> and this

killing to do. >> and this craving, this awful, raging,

craving, this awful, raging, eating feeling inside, I could

eating feeling inside, I could feel it consuming my insides.

Feel it consuming my insides. >> in October, another female

>> in October, another female college student goes missing.

College student goes missing. >> what was really upsetting

>> what was really upsetting about the first cases of the

about the first cases of the missing women was that when a

missing women was that when a parent would call in about a

parent would call in about a missing child, they would tell

missing child, they would tell the parents to relax, they'll

the parents to relax, they'll probably return home in a few

probably return home in a few days. "be patient. Your

days. "be patient. Your daughter probably just ran

daughter probably just ran away." it was the'70s, when a

away." it was the'70s, when a lot of kids ran away from home

lot of kids ran away from home and the cops didn't do much

and the cops didn't do much about it. >> there are tons of

about it. >> there are tons of people throughout the state

people throughout the state that turn up missing for

that turn up missing for various reasons, whether they

various reasons, whether they be runaways or maybe they're

be runaways or maybe they're victims of a crime. But those

victims of a crime. But those reports are filed constantly.

Reports are filed constantly. It's kind of hard to keep on

it's kind of hard to keep on top of all of them. >> and of

top of all of them. >> and of course panic is taking over in

course panic is taking over in the small town of santa cruz.

The small town of santa cruz. >> there were really no clues.

>> there were really no clues. >> all people can do is

>> all people can do is speculate about who is

speculate about who is committing these crimes.

Committing these crimes. >> young women were going

>> young women were going missing in the beachside

missing in the beachside community of santa cruz, and

community of santa cruz, and police had just found the skull

police had just found the skull of one of those women, a

of one of those women, a college student named mary anne

college student named mary anne pesce. >> I think all of us got

pesce. >> I think all of us got concerned. This is kind of

concerned. This is kind of crazy. We really didn't

crazy. We really didn't understand what was going on.

Understand what was going on. >> in the new year, there was

>> in the new year, there was another grisly discovery. A

another grisly discovery. A highway patrolman found a

highway patrolman found a woman's body parts on the side

woman's body parts on the side of the road. >> one torso

of the road. >> one torso washed up at the main beach in

washed up at the main beach in santa cruz right near the main

santa cruz right near the main wharf. Somebody found it and

wharf. Somebody found it and called the police department.

Called the police department. >> the body parts belonged to a

>> the body parts belonged to a woman who went missing about a

woman who went missing about a week before. Her name was

week before. Her name was cynthia schall. >> at first

cynthia schall. >> at first there was a disbelief in the

there was a disbelief in the whole issue. "this can't be

whole issue. "this can't be happening in our community."

happening in our community." but it was happening. >> why do

but it was happening. >> why do you think this is happening

you think this is happening here? >> I have no idea. >>

here? >> I have no idea. >> panic is taking over in the

panic is taking over in the small town of santa cruz. >> I

small town of santa cruz. >> I remember being at dinner with

remember being at dinner with somebody's house, and we heard

somebody's house, and we heard a scream and we all ran outside

a scream and we all ran outside because we thought maybe this

because we thought maybe this was the next case, something

was the next case, something had gone on. It turned out it

had gone on. It turned out it was kids playing. It was crazy

was kids playing. It was crazy time. >> all people can do is

time. >> all people can do is speculate about who is

speculate about who is committing these crimes. >> I

committing these crimes. >> I don't think anybody thought it

don't think anybody thought it was a townsperson. I don't

was a townsperson. I don't think anybody believed it was a

think anybody believed it was a student that did this. I think

student that did this. I think people, pretty much like myself,

people, pretty much like myself, were convinced that there's

were convinced that there's some other people that come in

some other people that come in and out of santa cruz -- it was

and out of santa cruz -- it was that kind of community -- that

that kind of community -- that was doing this. >> this was

was doing this. >> this was such a confusing time because

such a confusing time because there were really no clues. >>

there were really no clues. >> why all these murders here? Why?

Why all these murders here? Why? >> well, one reason is that we

>> well, one reason is that we have a homicidal maniac

have a homicidal maniac apparently. >> when people did

apparently. >> when people did find remains, they would

find remains, they would usually call the police

usually call the police department. And then whatever

department. And then whatever forensics was available at the

forensics was available at the time was done on the remains in

time was done on the remains in hopes of identifying them. >>

hopes of identifying them. >> in those days, they couldn't do

in those days, they couldn't do dna, anything like that. You

dna, anything like that. You could maybe get a blood type,

could maybe get a blood type, and that was pretty much it. >>

and that was pretty much it. >> we would ascertain the blood

we would ascertain the blood type and then do searches for

type and then do searches for missing persons with a similar

missing persons with a similar blood type and hopefully work

blood type and hopefully work out I.D.S through that manner.

Out I.D.S through that manner. Some of the victims, as far as

some of the victims, as far as we knew, were female

we knew, were female hitchhikers. >> hitchhikers

hitchhikers. >> hitchhikers were all over town. It was the

were all over town. It was the way you got around if you

way you got around if you didn't have a car. >>

didn't have a car. >> hitchhiking was particularly

hitchhiking was particularly important in santa cruz because

important in santa cruz because the uc santa cruz campus is on

the uc santa cruz campus is on top of the hill, and it's a

top of the hill, and it's a fairly extensive walk down to

fairly extensive walk down to the downtown where all the

the downtown where all the restaurants and things were. >>

restaurants and things were. >> if you drove up on campus,

if you drove up on campus, there would be a group of 12,

there would be a group of 12, 14, 16 people all hitchhiking.

14, 16 people all hitchhiking. >> you'd just stop your car if

>> you'd just stop your car if you were faculty or a staff

you were faculty or a staff member and pick up some

member and pick up some students. I even picked up

students. I even picked up students all the time. It was

students all the time. It was just part of everyday life in

just part of everyday life in santa cruz. >> these murders

santa cruz. >> these murders raised anxiety on campus, as it

raised anxiety on campus, as it did probably every college in

did probably every college in the bay area. >> that raised

the bay area. >> that raised our eyebrows as to we have to

our eyebrows as to we have to be concerned about our

be concerned about our students. >> and we went on

students. >> and we went on this big campaign to discourage

this big campaign to discourage people from hitchhiking. >>

people from hitchhiking. >> bulletin boards were installed

bulletin boards were installed on campus that read, "when

on campus that read, "when possible, girls especially,

possible, girls especially, stay in the dorms after

stay in the dorms after midnight with doors locked. If

midnight with doors locked. If you must be out at night, walk

you must be out at night, walk in pairs." >> every newspaper

in pairs." >> every newspaper we had contact with, they were

we had contact with, they were asked to put stories, warnings

asked to put stories, warnings in there that said being a

in there that said being a hitchhiker, especially a female

hitchhiker, especially a female hitchhiker, is very, very

hitchhiker, is very, very dangerous. >> I used to

dangerous. >> I used to hitchhike'cause I have classes

hitchhike'cause I have classes at night. I have a ballet class

at night. I have a ballet class off-campus at night, and out of

off-campus at night, and out of necessity to get to it on time,

necessity to get to it on time, I had to hitchhike. And I

I had to hitchhike. And I stopped now. >> why? >> well,

stopped now. >> why? >> well, I'm afraid, put it point blank.

I'm afraid, put it point blank. >> hitching is dangerous.

>> hitching is dangerous. There's no question about it.

There's no question about it. >> but that was only the half

>> but that was only the half of it. Santa cruz was ground

of it. Santa cruz was ground zero for another string of

zero for another string of murders at the same time. And

murders at the same time. And these murders didn't seem

these murders didn't seem related to female hitchhikers.

Related to female hitchhikers. >> a homeless man was found

>> a homeless man was found brutally murdered, and a priest

brutally murdered, and a priest was stabbed inside his own

was stabbed inside his own confessional. >> we started

confessional. >> we started getting all kinds of homicides

getting all kinds of homicides that were occurring throughout

that were occurring throughout the county. >> in early 1973, a

the county. >> in early 1973, a young mother and her two boys

young mother and her two boys were found shot to death. >>

were found shot to death. >> santa cruz was a safe place in

santa cruz was a safe place in those days. Our crime base was

those days. Our crime base was pretty much like car thefts,

pretty much like car thefts, burglaries, things of that

burglaries, things of that nature. Sometimes we'll get the

nature. Sometimes we'll get the occasional armed robbery. And,

occasional armed robbery. And, in a period of about eight

in a period of about eight months, we had, I think it was

months, we had, I think it was 26 or 28 homicides. >> we only

26 or 28 homicides. >> we only had one little newspaper. It's

had one little newspaper. It's called "the santa cruz

called "the santa cruz sentinel." and on the front

sentinel." and on the front page, they had "santa cruz: The

page, they had "santa cruz: The murder capital of the world."

murder capital of the world." >> we're trying to figure out

>> we're trying to figure out what was going on, because

what was going on, because there were different types of

there were different types of crimes. One was shootings, the

crimes. One was shootings, the others were like dismembered

others were like dismembered females. >> these crimes don't

females. >> these crimes don't seem to be connected at all. >>

seem to be connected at all. >> a lot of these women that were

a lot of these women that were being dismembered, that kind of

being dismembered, that kind of fits one profile, where the

fits one profile, where the others fit a different profile.

Others fit a different profile. >> we didn't know whether there

>> we didn't know whether there was one killer or several

was one killer or several killers. All we knew was that

killers. All we knew was that our safe town wasn't the same

our safe town wasn't the same anymore. >> and I think that

anymore. >> and I think that was confusing to the police who

was confusing to the police who were trying to figure out, "how

were trying to figure out, "how can we profile this? " but

can we profile this? " but before they could figure that

before they could figure that out, two more women went

out, two more women went missing. >> I opened my office

missing. >> I opened my office door after hearing a knock, and

door after hearing a knock, and there were several students

there were several students there, and they said to me,

there, and they said to me, "rosalind thorpe is missing."

"rosalind thorpe is missing." >> 23-year-old rosalind thorpe

>> 23-year-old rosalind thorpe disappeared after getting out

disappeared after getting out of an evening class, and she

of an evening class, and she was hitching a ride off the uc

was hitching a ride off the uc campus. >> and because there

campus. >> and because there were all these rumors about

were all these rumors about coeds being killed, they were

coeds being killed, they were very concerned about her. I

very concerned about her. I knew her from the time I came

knew her from the time I came as a counseling psychologist in

as a counseling psychologist in April of'69, so I knew her as a

April of'69, so I knew her as a bouncy, energized, enthusiastic,

bouncy, energized, enthusiastic, adventurous, willing to take

adventurous, willing to take chances -- a real mensch. As it

chances -- a real mensch. As it turned out, another student, a

turned out, another student, a quiet asian young woman by the

quiet asian young woman by the name of alice liu, went missing

name of alice liu, went missing the same night. They were seen

the same night. They were seen waiting for a hitchhike on

waiting for a hitchhike on campus. >> alice liu and

campus. >> alice liu and rosalind thorpe were last seen

rosalind thorpe were last seen February 5th while hitchhiking

February 5th while hitchhiking from campus. >> alice liu and

from campus. >> alice liu and rosalind thorpe, they didn't

rosalind thorpe, they didn't even know each other. >> the

even know each other. >> the girls were picked up at the

girls were picked up at the foot of the campus. >> he was

foot of the campus. >> he was not threatening to them. He

not threatening to them. He looked like a regular guy who

looked like a regular guy who was just out to give them a

was just out to give them a nice ride.

Nice ride.

>> welcome back to "very scary people." by February 1973, the

people." by February 1973, the city of santa cruz was in a

city of santa cruz was in a panic. So many murders, people

panic. So many murders, people of all ages and types. Men,

of all ages and types. Men, women, no one felt safe. The

women, no one felt safe. The killings seemed random, but

killings seemed random, but many of the victims were young

many of the victims were young women, college students last

women, college students last seen hitchhiking. They would

seen hitchhiking. They would have no idea that the shy man

have no idea that the shy man who picked them up had dark

who picked them up had dark secrets and a violent past. >>

secrets and a violent past. >> in December of 1969, a young

in December of 1969, a young man walks out of atascadero

man walks out of atascadero state hospital in southern

state hospital in southern california. He was there for

california. He was there for killing his grandparents when

killing his grandparents when he was just 15 years old. He

he was just 15 years old. He shot his grandmother once in

shot his grandmother once in the back of the head and twice

the back of the head and twice in the back. >> and then after

in the back. >> and then after he kills his grandmother, his

he kills his grandmother, his grandfather comes home, and he

grandfather comes home, and he explains this as, "well, I

explains this as, "well, I can't have my grandfather be

can't have my grandfather be upset to see his wife dead, so

upset to see his wife dead, so I might as well kill him too."

I might as well kill him too." and so he shot and killed his

and so he shot and killed his grandfather as well, whom he

grandfather as well, whom he actually had a very close

actually had a very close relationship with. >> he then

relationship with. >> he then goes inside, picks up the phone,

goes inside, picks up the phone, calls his mother, confesses the

calls his mother, confesses the whole thing to her, and she

whole thing to her, and she tells him, "you need to call

tells him, "you need to call the police." he goes, calls the

the police." he goes, calls the police, confesses, and they

police, confesses, and they take him into custody. >> so he

take him into custody. >> so he went to court, and he was

went to court, and he was essentially found insane,

essentially found insane, legally insane. >> he was

legally insane. >> he was sentenced to serve his time as

sentenced to serve his time as a juvenile at atascadero state

a juvenile at atascadero state hospital in atascadero, and

hospital in atascadero, and that was a place that a lot of

that was a place that a lot of criminals with mental illnesses

criminals with mental illnesses were housed. >> back then,

were housed. >> back then, atascadero was a place for

atascadero was a place for sexual deviants, pedophiles,

sexual deviants, pedophiles, rapists. It's about the worst

rapists. It's about the worst place for a young man to come

place for a young man to come of age. >> I was 15 years old

of age. >> I was 15 years old when I went there. >> I can

when I went there. >> I can only imagine what it must've

only imagine what it must've been like for ed being in a

been like for ed being in a mental hospital in his teenage

mental hospital in his teenage years, when all of a sudden

years, when all of a sudden your body hormones start

your body hormones start screaming at you. I can only

screaming at you. I can only imagine what demons were coming

imagine what demons were coming out while he was maturing from

out while he was maturing from a boy into an adult. When he

a boy into an adult. When he went to the mental hospital,

went to the mental hospital, they ran the whole gamut of

they ran the whole gamut of tests on him, and they felt

tests on him, and they felt that he was criminally insane,

that he was criminally insane, and then started treating him.

And then started treating him. Well, it turns out he was a

well, it turns out he was a model prisoner, and he was very

model prisoner, and he was very smart, and he figured out what

smart, and he figured out what the game was with the doctors

the game was with the doctors all along. >> he's a highly

all along. >> he's a highly manipulative person. >> he got

manipulative person. >> he got involved in administering tests

involved in administering tests to other patients, and he

to other patients, and he learned from them. >> and what

learned from them. >> and what he's basically learning is

he's basically learning is terminology, diagnoses,

terminology, diagnoses, criteria, various mental

criteria, various mental disorders, and he's going to

disorders, and he's going to use this information that he's

use this information that he's got to convince the staff that

got to convince the staff that they cured him. So he became

they cured him. So he became very, very familiar with the

very, very familiar with the different tests, how they're

different tests, how they're interpreted, how they're scored,

interpreted, how they're scored, and so on. >> he learned what

and so on. >> he learned what the correct answers were, he

the correct answers were, he knew how to manipulate it. And

knew how to manipulate it. And he was very bright and

he was very bright and knowledgeable about issues of

knowledgeable about issues of psychiatry. >> he was nice and

psychiatry. >> he was nice and quiet. He took pride in his

quiet. He took pride in his work. >> he's smart enough to

work. >> he's smart enough to know that he should keep

know that he should keep fantasies private and keep it

fantasies private and keep it to himself. When you get

to himself. When you get evaluated by a psychiatrist,

evaluated by a psychiatrist, psychologist, or some other

psychologist, or some other mental health person, they can

mental health person, they can only know what's in your mind

only know what's in your mind if you reveal it to them. And

if you reveal it to them. And when you look at him, he's not

when you look at him, he's not psychotic, he doesn't hear

psychotic, he doesn't hear voices, he's not delusional,

voices, he's not delusional, he's not a behavior problem.

He's not a behavior problem. He's bright, he's friendly,

he's bright, he's friendly, likable. >> he was smart. He

likable. >> he was smart. He was very smart. At one point,

was very smart. At one point, he was given an iq test. He

he was given an iq test. He scored a 140, which is

scored a 140, which is considered highly intelligent.

Considered highly intelligent. >> ironically, I have a high

>> ironically, I have a high iq. I always thought I was a

iq. I always thought I was a little missing up here, a

little missing up here, a little short. >> so they really

little short. >> so they really trusted him, and they trusted

trusted him, and they trusted that he was being

that he was being rehabilitated. He seemed like a

rehabilitated. He seemed like a good, moral citizen. At least

good, moral citizen. At least that's what everyone thought at

that's what everyone thought at the time. >> he knew what it

the time. >> he knew what it took to get considered

took to get considered non-dangerous and to be

non-dangerous and to be released from atascadero, and

released from atascadero, and he did it. >> after spending

he did it. >> after spending five years in atascadero, he

five years in atascadero, he got released at age 21. The

got released at age 21. The staff at atascadero had

staff at atascadero had recommended that he not go back

recommended that he not go back into society fully, that he go

into society fully, that he go to a halfway house. The doctors

to a halfway house. The doctors were adamant about one thing --

were adamant about one thing -- that the 21-year-old should

that the 21-year-old should stay far away from his mother.

Stay far away from his mother. >> my mother was a sick, angry,

>> my mother was a sick, angry, hungry, and very sad woman. I

hungry, and very sad woman. I hated her. >> california youth

hated her. >> california youth authority had a different idea,

authority had a different idea, and they released him to the

and they released him to the custody of his mother. >> he

custody of his mother. >> he was released to the one person

was released to the one person that authorities at the state

that authorities at the state mental hospital recommended he

mental hospital recommended he never see again. >> his mother

never see again. >> his mother was now working on the campus

was now working on the campus of uc santa cruz. But this was

of uc santa cruz. But this was a woman who had been harassing

a woman who had been harassing him since he was a child. >> I

him since he was a child. >> I had an upbringing that was,

had an upbringing that was, some have called dysfunctional.

Some have called dysfunctional. >> his parents didn't get

>> his parents didn't get along. They fought all the

along. They fought all the time. His mother was an

time. His mother was an alcoholic. >> I was very

alcoholic. >> I was very intimidated by her. She's 6

intimidated by her. She's 6 feet tall, she weighs 2 and a

feet tall, she weighs 2 and a quarter, 225 pounds. She's just

quarter, 225 pounds. She's just this great big woman who I was

this great big woman who I was terrified of. >> his father

terrified of. >> his father decides to leave the family,

decides to leave the family, and he took that as an

and he took that as an abandonment, I suppose you

abandonment, I suppose you could say, but he also lost

could say, but he also lost someone who was keeping him in

someone who was keeping him in check. >> his mother is very

check. >> his mother is very unbalanced. He quotes his

unbalanced. He quotes his father as saying serving in the

father as saying serving in the war was easier than living with

war was easier than living with his wife. >> she wanted him to

his wife. >> she wanted him to change this, she wanted him to

change this, she wanted him to change that, and he couldn't

change that, and he couldn't handle that. After 13 years,

handle that. After 13 years, he'd had enough. >> so his

he'd had enough. >> so his mother moves the family to

mother moves the family to montana after she divorces and

montana after she divorces and separates from her husband. >>

separates from her husband. >> my mother, she tried

my mother, she tried psychological tactics. She

psychological tactics. She tried, "I'm going to put you in

tried, "I'm going to put you in an orphanage. I'm going to

an orphanage. I'm going to disavow you." and terror

disavow you." and terror tactics -- "okay, we're going

tactics -- "okay, we're going to eat dinner and I'm going to

to eat dinner and I'm going to beat your [bleep] afterwards, "

beat your [bleep] afterwards, " you know, so I could think

you know, so I could think about it for a half hour. >>

about it for a half hour. >> his sisters picked on him also.

His sisters picked on him also. >> he had two sisters, an older

>> he had two sisters, an older sister and a younger one. >>

sister and a younger one. >> they constantly berated him,

they constantly berated him, constantly made fun of him,

constantly made fun of him, constantly teased him. >> he

constantly teased him. >> he said that he was teased and

said that he was teased and bullied a lot in school. He was

bullied a lot in school. He was a big, goofy sort of guy, way

a big, goofy sort of guy, way larger than most of the other

larger than most of the other classmates. And young kids are

classmates. And young kids are always looking for someone to

always looking for someone to target and to make fun of. >> I

target and to make fun of. >> I always felt like an outsider,

always felt like an outsider, and that's again because I

and that's again because I didn't ever fit in. >> on top

didn't ever fit in. >> on top of all that, his mother made

of all that, his mother made her son live in the basement.

Her son live in the basement. >> she banished him to the

>> she banished him to the basement, just didn't want him

basement, just didn't want him around, didn't want him talking

around, didn't want him talking to her. >> my mother and my

to her. >> my mother and my sisters themselves would go up

sisters themselves would go up to bed upstairs. Why am I going

to bed upstairs. Why am I going to the basement? I'm going to

to the basement? I'm going to hell, they're going to heaven.

Hell, they're going to heaven. >> it was a basement in which

>> it was a basement in which there was very little light

there was very little light except from the furnace. >> and

except from the furnace. >> and I've got this horrible terror

I've got this horrible terror going on inside of me. This is

going on inside of me. This is every night, this is every day

every night, this is every day because it's pitch black down

because it's pitch black down there. No windows. And I would

there. No windows. And I would go off into fantasy worlds that

go off into fantasy worlds that got vengeance on my enemies, it

got vengeance on my enemies, it got even with the bullies who

got even with the bullies who picked on the kids and me in

picked on the kids and me in school, it got even with

school, it got even with someone who slighted me. >> for

someone who slighted me. >> for about eight months or so, he

about eight months or so, he was sleeping in the basement,

was sleeping in the basement, and he's a young child at this

and he's a young child at this point. >> when I sniveled about

point. >> when I sniveled about it, when I complained and I

it, when I complained and I cried about it, I got smacked

cried about it, I got smacked in the head. "what's the matter

in the head. "what's the matter with you? Quit being such a

with you? Quit being such a wimp." >> he hated his mother,

wimp." >> he hated his mother, and I think it's probably fair

and I think it's probably fair to say that his mother probably

to say that his mother probably hated him as well, at least at

hated him as well, at least at some level. She humiliated him,

some level. She humiliated him, belittled him. >> so, when

belittled him. >> so, when 21-year-old edmund kemper was

21-year-old edmund kemper was released from the hospital to

released from the hospital to go live with his mom, only the

go live with his mom, only the doctors would have known that

doctors would have known that it was a bad idea. >> it didn't

it was a bad idea. >> it didn't take long for the two of them

take long for the two of them to be at each other's throats

to be at each other's throats again. >> 21-year-old edmund

again. >> 21-year-old edmund kemper was ready to be released

kemper was ready to be released back into society. He'd spent

back into society. He'd spent six years living in a

six years living in a

>> 21-year-old edmund kemper was ready to be released back

was ready to be released back into society. He'd spent six

into society. He'd spent six years living in a mental

years living in a mental hospital for killing his

hospital for killing his grandparents. >> he comes out

grandparents. >> he comes out into the world, and he's very

into the world, and he's very thrown by what he's

thrown by what he's experiencing. >> I've never

experiencing. >> I've never been on a date. You know? I was

been on a date. You know? I was locked up since I was 15. >>

locked up since I was 15. >> and the world he was released

and the world he was released to was very different from the

to was very different from the one of five years earlier. >>

one of five years earlier. >> in the late'60s, early'70s,

in the late'60s, early'70s, santa cruz became like a mecca

santa cruz became like a mecca for the hippie generation. >>

for the hippie generation. >> there's free love, people are

there's free love, people are having sex freely. >> I was

having sex freely. >> I was scared to death of failing at

scared to death of failing at male-female relationships. I

male-female relationships. I knew absolutely nothing about

knew absolutely nothing about that whole area, even if just

that whole area, even if just sitting down and talking with a

sitting down and talking with a young lady. >> the mother is

young lady. >> the mother is still telling him he's not good

still telling him he's not good enough. He'll never date girls,

enough. He'll never date girls, he'll never be seen as

he'll never be seen as desirable, and he will never be

desirable, and he will never be successful with women. >> I

successful with women. >> I need to be able to really

need to be able to really communicate, and ironically

communicate, and ironically enough, that's why I began

enough, that's why I began picking up young women. >> he

picking up young women. >> he started picking up hitchhikers

started picking up hitchhikers in his car, driving them around,

in his car, driving them around, getting to know them, flirting

getting to know them, flirting with them in his way. >> he's

with them in his way. >> he's learning, how do you relate to

learning, how do you relate to them? What do you say? How do

them? What do you say? How do you make small talk? What are

you make small talk? What are they like? What do they say to

they like? What do they say to you? And he gets pretty good at

you? And he gets pretty good at it, and he has a good ability

it, and he has a good ability to put people at ease. The

to put people at ease. The women are seeing a nice,

women are seeing a nice, friendly guy. >> but all that

friendly guy. >> but all that time, he is having really

time, he is having really violent fantasies about these

violent fantasies about these women and all the plans that

women and all the plans that he's sort of making and gearing

he's sort of making and gearing up towards. It's constantly in

up towards. It's constantly in his mind. >> and I'm going a

his mind. >> and I'm going a little bit farther each time.

Little bit farther each time. It's a daring kind of a thing.

It's a daring kind of a thing. At first there wasn't a gun.

At first there wasn't a gun. I'm driving along, we go to a

I'm driving along, we go to a vulnerable place where there

vulnerable place where there aren't people watching, where I

aren't people watching, where I could act out, and I say, "no,

could act out, and I say, "no, I can't." >> during this time,

I can't." >> during this time, ed kemper claimed that he had

ed kemper claimed that he had given over 100 rides to women

given over 100 rides to women hitchhikers. >> I think a lot

hitchhikers. >> I think a lot of people wonder how kemper got

of people wonder how kemper got all these young women into his

all these young women into his car, because he's this 6'9",

car, because he's this 6'9", 300-pound guy. He's not the

300-pound guy. He's not the type of man who looks safe to

type of man who looks safe to hitch a ride from. >> I'm a

hitch a ride from. >> I'm a single male young adult,

single male young adult, two-door car. They're not gonna

two-door car. They're not gonna wanna get in and ride with me.

Wanna get in and ride with me. I made that a challenge, almost

I made that a challenge, almost like a chess game. >> and the

like a chess game. >> and the reason he was able to do it is

reason he was able to do it is because he did so many test

because he did so many test runs. He did about a year of

runs. He did about a year of test runs where he didn't kill

test runs where he didn't kill any women, didn't assault any

any women, didn't assault any women. He would just go pick up

women. He would just go pick up hitchhikers. So there are

hitchhikers. So there are dozens of women out there that

dozens of women out there that had perfectly normal rides. He

had perfectly normal rides. He tried to figure out what made

tried to figure out what made women feel comfortable getting

women feel comfortable getting in the car with him. So he

in the car with him. So he would test out various

would test out various techniques. One of the things

techniques. One of the things was he would glance at his

was he would glance at his watch as the woman was getting

watch as the woman was getting in the car, and that was sort

in the car, and that was sort of a subtle signal to her that

of a subtle signal to her that this guy is a businessman, he's

this guy is a businessman, he's in a hurry, he needs to go. >>

in a hurry, he needs to go. >> just a glance at my watch, look

just a glance at my watch, look slightly irritated, and, "oh,

slightly irritated, and, "oh, well, I guess I can stop and

well, I guess I can stop and give this person a ride." it

give this person a ride." it seemed to have a very positive

seemed to have a very positive effect. >> he figured out a way

effect. >> he figured out a way of locking the door from the

of locking the door from the inside, the passenger seat, by

inside, the passenger seat, by dropping a chapstick into the

dropping a chapstick into the locking mechanism, and the

locking mechanism, and the girls couldn't get out. >> he

girls couldn't get out. >> he would say, "oh, ma'am, the

would say, "oh, ma'am, the door's not closed all the way,

door's not closed all the way, " and reach over in the car,

" and reach over in the car, and he would take that

and he would take that chapstick and he would put it

chapstick and he would put it in the locking mechanism so

in the locking mechanism so once the car door closed, the

once the car door closed, the woman could then not open the

woman could then not open the door from the inside. >> do you

door from the inside. >> do you do any hitchhiking these days?

Do any hitchhiking these days? >> nope, not now. No way. I'm

>> nope, not now. No way. I'm not gonna take any chances. >>

not gonna take any chances. >> if I was driving down the hill

if I was driving down the hill and I saw students hitchhiking,

and I saw students hitchhiking, I would stop my car, open my

I would stop my car, open my window and yell at them, and

window and yell at them, and tell them not to hitchhike,

tell them not to hitchhike, that it was much too dangerous.

That it was much too dangerous. >> I did a story where I got in

>> I did a story where I got in my car and drove up to the ucsc

my car and drove up to the ucsc campus, and picked up women

campus, and picked up women hitchhikers, and interviewed

hitchhikers, and interviewed them about why they were

them about why they were hitchhiking. And I said, "you

hitchhiking. And I said, "you know, I could be one of the

know, I could be one of the murderers." and they said, "oh,

murderers." and they said, "oh, you seem like a nice guy. I

you seem like a nice guy. I don't think that that would

don't think that that would happen." one hitchhiker girl

happen." one hitchhiker girl got in my car, and I said, "are

got in my car, and I said, "are you afraid to hitchhike? " and

you afraid to hitchhike? " and she said, "no, I carry this can

she said, "no, I carry this can of mace. See? " and she handed

of mace. See? " and she handed it to me, and I thought, "well,

it to me, and I thought, "well, that's not very smart." >> it

that's not very smart." >> it was shocking to see that even

was shocking to see that even with all the warnings, that

with all the warnings, that some of the students didn't

some of the students didn't change their behavior. >> we

change their behavior. >> we did have administrative

did have administrative meetings about what should be

meetings about what should be changed with regard to

changed with regard to protecting our students. It was

protecting our students. It was then they decided that if they

then they decided that if they hitchhiked with somebody with a

hitchhiked with somebody with a parking sticker from the campus,

parking sticker from the campus, that probably is okay. They're

that probably is okay. They're campus people. They're staff

campus people. They're staff and faculty of the university,

and faculty of the university, and obviously, they couldn't

and obviously, they couldn't have had anything to do with

have had anything to do with these murders. >> what no one

these murders. >> what no one realized at the time was the

realized at the time was the man they were looking for had a

man they were looking for had a university parking sticker on

university parking sticker on his car. >> his mother worked

his car. >> his mother worked on campus. >> he would go pick

on campus. >> he would go pick her up at work sometimes, and

her up at work sometimes, and so he got a little sticker that

so he got a little sticker that he could put on the car that

he could put on the car that gave him all access to campus.

Gave him all access to campus. >> listen, I had an "a" sticker

>> listen, I had an "a" sticker on my car and obvious access,

on my car and obvious access, day or night, to the campus. I

day or night, to the campus. I was picking up some very lovely

was picking up some very lovely young women. You know what we

young women. You know what we were talking about as we're

were talking about as we're driving around, almost as often

driving around, almost as often as not? This guy that's going

as not? This guy that's going around doing this stuff. You

around doing this stuff. You know, but they'd be telling me

know, but they'd be telling me all about this guy, and they're

all about this guy, and they're comparing notes and speculating

comparing notes and speculating on what he looks like, how he

on what he looks like, how he carries himself, why he's doing

carries himself, why he's doing this stuff. Telling me about

this stuff. Telling me about it. >> he had the method, he

it. >> he had the method, he had the experience, he had the

had the experience, he had the tool with the chapstick, and he

tool with the chapstick, and he had the uc sticker. So the

had the uc sticker. So the stage was set for what was to

stage was set for what was to come. >> female hitchhikers

come. >> female hitchhikers were disappearing around the

were disappearing around the city of

city of

>> female hitchhikers were disappearing around the city of

disappearing around the city of santa cruz, and other people

santa cruz, and other people were turning up stabbed or shot

were turning up stabbed or shot to death for no apparent

to death for no apparent reason. And there were no

reason. And there were no clues. >> we thought that there

clues. >> we thought that there was a possibility that it could

was a possibility that it could be two different people because

be two different people because of the various styles of

of the various styles of murders, but we didn't know for

murders, but we didn't know for sure because the country had

sure because the country had never seen anything like this

never seen anything like this before. >> so, from a

before. >> so, from a perspective of law enforcement,

perspective of law enforcement, it's hard to believe that there

it's hard to believe that there are two serial killers

are two serial killers operating in the same location

operating in the same location at the same time. >> it was

at the same time. >> it was hard to believe there weren't

hard to believe there weren't any clues. But then one day,

any clues. But then one day, police got a big break. >> a

police got a big break. >> a lady had come out and picked up

lady had come out and picked up her newspaper, heard what she

her newspaper, heard what she thought was a gunshot, and out

thought was a gunshot, and out of the corner of her eye, she

of the corner of her eye, she saw her neighbor, who was just

saw her neighbor, who was just out working in his yard, fall.

Out working in his yard, fall. And there was an older model

and there was an older model chevrolet station wagon stopped

chevrolet station wagon stopped on the street. And she saw a

on the street. And she saw a man pulling his gun back to the

man pulling his gun back to the front seat. So she called the

front seat. So she called the police. >> the vehicle

police. >> the vehicle description was put out over

description was put out over the radio. An officer from

the radio. An officer from santa cruz police department

santa cruz police department spotted what appeared to be the

spotted what appeared to be the same vehicle. >> and the santa

same vehicle. >> and the santa cruz police department arrested

cruz police department arrested herbert mullin. >> herbert

herbert mullin. >> herbert mullin was a local boy who had

mullin was a local boy who had obviously severe mental

obviously severe mental problems. I think he was

problems. I think he was probably as criminally insane

probably as criminally insane as anybody could be. >> with

as anybody could be. >> with the interviews that we had with

the interviews that we had with mullin, it was ascertained that

mullin, it was ascertained that he was more likely the one that

he was more likely the one that was doing the killings by

was doing the killings by shooting people. We had

shooting people. We had evidence of his rifle being

evidence of his rifle being used in numerous killings, and

used in numerous killings, and those were matched up with the

those were matched up with the bullets. >> it was an amazing

bullets. >> it was an amazing turn of events. Who could've

turn of events. Who could've guessed that there could be two

guessed that there could be two serial killers in the same town?

Serial killers in the same town? >> 25-year-old herbert mullin

>> 25-year-old herbert mullin has been charged with 10 of the

has been charged with 10 of the santa cruz murders. >> he was

santa cruz murders. >> he was very delusional, he was hearing

very delusional, he was hearing voices. >> and he would have to

voices. >> and he would have to listen to the voices and go out

listen to the voices and go out and murder people. He is

and murder people. He is obsessed with this idea that if

obsessed with this idea that if he can commit small, what he

he can commit small, what he calls "natural disasters, " he

calls "natural disasters, " he can prevent a huge earthquake

can prevent a huge earthquake from taking out california. >>

from taking out california. >> herbert mullin ultimately

herbert mullin ultimately confessed to 13 murders. That

confessed to 13 murders. That included a priest who was found

included a priest who was found murdered in his confessional

murdered in his confessional and a homeless man who was

and a homeless man who was beaten to death. He had killed

beaten to death. He had killed basically a hobo who was just

basically a hobo who was just walking down the street one day,

walking down the street one day, and he had this strange feeling

and he had this strange feeling and he wanted to see what was

and he wanted to see what was inside him. And so he shot him.

Inside him. And so he shot him. >> because he wanted to

>> because he wanted to determine if there was signs of

determine if there was signs of pollution in the victim's

pollution in the victim's internal organs. >> however,

internal organs. >> however, mullin's alleged connection

mullin's alleged connection with death has not involved the

with death has not involved the cutting up of the victims. >>

cutting up of the victims. >> there are also a number of

there are also a number of unsolved murders in this area.

Unsolved murders in this area. Four of these victims were

four of these victims were coeds from nearby uc. At least

coeds from nearby uc. At least two other young women are

two other young women are missing and feared dead. >> we

missing and feared dead. >> we have five unsolved murders of

have five unsolved murders of coeds, local coeds from the

coeds, local coeds from the university of california in

university of california in santa cruz and also cabrillo

santa cruz and also cabrillo college, which is a local

college, which is a local junior college. >> we couldn't

junior college. >> we couldn't link them together. >> so, the

link them together. >> so, the coed killer was still on the

coed killer was still on the loose, and cops had no leads

loose, and cops had no leads about who he could be. >> at a

about who he could be. >> at a time when pressure is on for

time when pressure is on for the police officers, the jury

the police officers, the jury room was a place where they

room was a place where they could come in, relax, have a

could come in, relax, have a few drinks, and enjoy

few drinks, and enjoy themselves. >> the jury room

themselves. >> the jury room was a working man's bar right

was a working man's bar right across the street from the

across the street from the sheriff's office. It's where

sheriff's office. It's where police officers would go unwind

police officers would go unwind after a long shift. >> and of

after a long shift. >> and of course, the drinks would loosen

course, the drinks would loosen them up a little bit, and they

them up a little bit, and they would start telling stories

would start telling stories about what was going on. One of

about what was going on. One of the regulars at the bar was a

the regulars at the bar was a guy whose whole goal in life

guy whose whole goal in life was to become a cop. >> because

was to become a cop. >> because he's 6'9", and at that time

he's 6'9", and at that time there were very strict height

there were very strict height requirements, you couldn't be

requirements, you couldn't be above a certain height. And so

above a certain height. And so this was second best. >> he was

this was second best. >> he was like what, you know, people

like what, you know, people call a "wannabe police

call a "wannabe police officer." >> he found himself

officer." >> he found himself drawn to the jury room, and he

drawn to the jury room, and he started hanging out with the

started hanging out with the cops. These were his people. >>

cops. These were his people. >> everybody kind of knows him.

Everybody kind of knows him. He's a little bit goofy, he's a

he's a little bit goofy, he's a little bit annoying, but the

little bit annoying, but the cops all really kind of like

cops all really kind of like him. >> they knew him as "big

him. >> they knew him as "big ed." >> they'd buy me a beer,

ed." >> they'd buy me a beer, I'd buy them a beer. >> did the

I'd buy them a beer. >> did the cops like you? >> like I said,

cops like you? >> like I said, a friendly nuisance. I got in

a friendly nuisance. I got in the way. And it was deliberate.

The way. And it was deliberate. Again, friendly nuisances are

again, friendly nuisances are dismissed. >> and of course one

dismissed. >> and of course one of the topics of conversation

of the topics of conversation in the bar is who is the coed

in the bar is who is the coed killer. >> he was asking them,

killer. >> he was asking them, have they found this guy? Had

have they found this guy? Had they any clues as to who this

they any clues as to who this person was who was killing

person was who was killing these coeds? >> I was poking

these coeds? >> I was poking around a little bit, trying to

around a little bit, trying to find some things out. I knew

find some things out. I knew they wouldn't be privy to hot

they wouldn't be privy to hot information, but there were

information, but there were some things that were bothering

some things that were bothering me, like were there any

me, like were there any speculations on how they were

speculations on how they were dying. >> little did we know

dying. >> little did we know that the person that we were

that the person that we were looking for was in the same bar

looking for was in the same bar drinking with us. >> in a

drinking with us. >> in a million years, they never

million years, they never suspected he was the person who

suspected he was the person who was killing these coeds. >> I

was killing these coeds. >> I was dreaming, thinking,

was dreaming, thinking, fantasizing murder all day

fantasizing murder all day long. I couldn't get it out of

long. I couldn't get it out of my head. >> he was in such a

my head. >> he was in such a blind rage, he gets in his car

blind rage, he gets in his car and he decided, no matter who

and he decided, no matter who got in the car, he was going to

got in the car, he was going to kill them that night. >> if

kill them that night. >> if you've ever smelled death, you

you've ever smelled death, you know that that's what was going

know that that's what was going on in that apartment. >> it

on in that apartment. >> it wasn't the aspect of killing

wasn't the aspect of killing them, it was the aspect of

them, it was the aspect of possessing their bodies

possessing their bodies afterwards. >> I could actually

afterwards. >> I could actually feel the blood drain out of my

feel the blood drain out of my body. I just turned cold all

body. I just turned cold all over. >> I was building up big

over. >> I was building up big loads of frustration inside,

loads of frustration inside, big loads of hatred because I

big loads of hatred because I had no outlet for it. >> I

had no outlet for it. >> I think the paranoia was building

think the paranoia was building and building and building, and

and building and building, and it was starting to make him

it was starting to make him feel like he was cracking. >>

feel like he was cracking. >> I'm thinking all these horrible

I'm thinking all these horrible things. >> and eventually, it

things. >> and eventually, it just has to end. What's he

just has to end. What's he gonna do? >> police were

gonna do? >> police were desperate to find the coed

desperate to find the coed killer before he struck again.

Killer before he struck again. Big ed, the cop wannabe who

big ed, the cop wannabe who hung out at the jury room bar,

hung out at the jury room bar, continued to joke with

continued to joke with detectives and quiz them about

detectives and quiz them about the case. He wanted to know if

the case. He wanted to know if they were getting close. Behind

they were getting close. Behind his smile, a rage was building.

His smile, a rage was building. There was gonna be another

there was gonna be another murder. In part two of "the

murder. In part two of "the coed killer." I'm donnie

coed killer." I'm donnie wahlberg. Thanks for watching.

Wahlberg. Thanks for watching. Goodnight.

Goodnight.