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Downloaded from
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We met on the Day of Atonement
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When the sky swelled
with the tears of Israel
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For the first time we examined together
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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The clay frames of our souls
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Those stale and archaic amphoras
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Yours had a certain transparence
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00:00:14,264 --> 00:00:16,224
And an amethyst light
beaming from the interior
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Consciousness masterfully persuaded us
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That we were in an urban park above a pond
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Within the autumn's flaming trees
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Inside our souls purpled
with much suffering
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But we weren't really there.
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Clouded heavens thundered loud music
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Of the trumpets of Jerusalem,
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the Archangel extinguished the sun
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And the funereal earth was bursting
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This was our first encounter
The next will take place on Judgment Day.
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00:05:03,887 --> 00:05:05,930
Hi. I'm here to see some letters
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00:05:05,972 --> 00:05:08,641
in the Józef Wittlin
correspondence and compositions.
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00:05:08,683 --> 00:05:10,435
Have you been to Houghton Library before?
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00:05:10,477 --> 00:05:11,686
Uh, no.
24
00:05:11,728 --> 00:05:13,438
- And do you have a library card?
- Yeah, I just picked it up.
25
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:14,689
May I see it, please?
26
00:05:17,901 --> 00:05:21,279
Might you have you the call number
for the collection that you're after?
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00:05:27,661 --> 00:05:29,746
That is...MS Slavic 7.
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00:05:31,956 --> 00:05:35,502
Mm-hm. There are 446 items
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00:05:35,543 --> 00:05:38,171
in the Wittlin correspondence
and compositions.
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00:05:38,213 --> 00:05:40,215
Do you have an item number?
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00:05:40,256 --> 00:05:44,052
Item number 23,
Zofia Bohdanowiczowa.
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00:05:44,094 --> 00:05:46,596
This...looks good.
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00:05:46,638 --> 00:05:48,473
The box is in this library.
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00:05:48,515 --> 00:05:51,226
It'll take about 15 minutes
for me to prepare it for you.
35
00:05:51,267 --> 00:05:53,019
Great.
36
00:05:53,061 --> 00:05:56,439
You'll have to check your coat
and bag into the cloak room.
37
00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:59,776
We only allow the bare minimum
of what you'll need to do your research.
38
00:05:59,818 --> 00:06:01,569
And will you be taking notes today?
39
00:06:01,611 --> 00:06:03,238
- Yeah.
- On a laptop?
40
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,823
No, in notebooks.
41
00:06:04,864 --> 00:06:06,866
Okay,
you'll have to use this pencil.
42
00:06:08,284 --> 00:06:11,204
I actually really don't like pencils.
I prefer to use a pen.
43
00:06:11,246 --> 00:06:14,874
No, we don't allow the use of pens
in the reading room at all.
44
00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:17,711
Kindly put your coat
and bag into the cloak room
45
00:06:17,752 --> 00:06:20,213
and I'll meet you
in the reading room in 15 minutes.
46
00:06:20,255 --> 00:06:23,299
And, if you haven't done so already,
please put your cellphone on silent.
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00:10:44,102 --> 00:10:46,771
When you're...
48
00:10:48,356 --> 00:10:50,775
..reading a letter,
49
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you're so aware of...
50
00:10:54,446 --> 00:10:57,324
..the barest motivations...
51
00:10:58,366 --> 00:11:00,368
..to record and to communicate.
52
00:11:02,412 --> 00:11:05,040
And there's something...
53
00:11:06,541 --> 00:11:09,252
..kind of...
54
00:11:09,294 --> 00:11:11,880
heartbreakingly...
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00:11:11,921 --> 00:11:14,841
desperate about how...
56
00:11:14,883 --> 00:11:16,885
straightforward that intention is.
57
00:11:21,556 --> 00:11:24,059
And I think...
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00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:27,395
that partly goes back to...
59
00:11:27,437 --> 00:11:31,274
the letter as...an object...
60
00:11:31,316 --> 00:11:34,069
and like, what a letter means...
61
00:11:36,237 --> 00:11:38,615
..which is...
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00:11:40,492 --> 00:11:46,206
..a message that traverses
a public system...
63
00:11:46,247 --> 00:11:49,376
and arrives with a recipient.
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00:11:49,417 --> 00:11:53,713
It travels over distance to get there...
65
00:11:55,382 --> 00:11:56,925
..and the very...
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00:11:56,967 --> 00:12:00,512
that very action,
the very meaning of a letter
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00:12:00,553 --> 00:12:04,391
like, completely aside
from the content of the letter...
68
00:12:09,437 --> 00:12:11,940
..is to travel and to deliver.
69
00:12:13,525 --> 00:12:15,735
And I think...
70
00:12:17,445 --> 00:12:20,198
..that a letter is so...
71
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,574
um...
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00:12:21,616 --> 00:12:25,161
completely tied to its objecthood...
73
00:12:25,203 --> 00:12:27,205
that...
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It's like its objecthood,
the meaning of the object
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00:12:34,087 --> 00:12:38,508
reinforces...the content of the letter
76
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:42,304
and they're completely intertwined
with each other, and...
77
00:12:47,017 --> 00:12:49,019
So seeing...
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00:12:50,562 --> 00:12:54,941
..the actual, physical, objects...
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00:12:58,194 --> 00:13:02,449
There's something incredibly raw about it,
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00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:06,077
um, kind of horrifyingly raw.
81
00:13:11,249 --> 00:13:13,710
In...
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00:13:13,752 --> 00:13:17,547
um, this project that On Kawara did
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00:13:17,589 --> 00:13:20,133
called I Got Up, he...
84
00:13:22,719 --> 00:13:26,973
..writes the phrase, "I got up",
and the time that he got up each day
85
00:13:27,015 --> 00:13:29,017
and mails it on a postcard to a friend.
86
00:13:30,477 --> 00:13:34,773
And so by reducing
the content of the postcards
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to this repeated phrase,
88
00:13:37,484 --> 00:13:41,404
uh, that's devoid
of symbolism or narrative
89
00:13:41,446 --> 00:13:43,323
he...
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00:13:43,365 --> 00:13:45,533
reduces the postcard,
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uh, only to an object
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00:13:48,745 --> 00:13:54,084
and I think, through doing that,
you're really able to see...
93
00:13:57,379 --> 00:14:00,799
..what the meaning of a postcard is
or what a letter is.
94
00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:07,222
There... is a repeated...
95
00:14:08,932 --> 00:14:13,812
..phrase in almost all
of Zofia's letters.
96
00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:17,524
Um, first of all being, uh,
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that the city will destroy your soul.
98
00:14:22,070 --> 00:14:24,781
Secondly, that uh,
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00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:27,784
the countryside
is the only place for a writer,
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00:14:27,826 --> 00:14:31,162
where they can find quiet and stillness.
101
00:14:32,706 --> 00:14:35,208
And the third being, um,
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00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:38,503
through her investment in his talent
103
00:14:38,545 --> 00:14:41,756
um, that she has this conviction
104
00:14:41,798 --> 00:14:46,219
that if he goes to the country,
he'll be able to write his greatest work.
105
00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:49,889
And that seems to be...
106
00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:53,893
..what she wants.
107
00:14:53,935 --> 00:14:55,895
Um...
108
00:14:55,937 --> 00:14:58,481
She loves his work.
109
00:14:58,523 --> 00:15:02,444
And there is this amazing repetition
in the letters as well of...
110
00:15:04,029 --> 00:15:09,784
..her incredible belief
in the written word, which is...
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00:15:13,747 --> 00:15:17,459
..in her love of poetry, novels,
and also of letters.
112
00:15:19,753 --> 00:15:23,673
Of truly feeling
it's the only thing that can...
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00:15:23,715 --> 00:15:27,844
transmit a feeling,
and a thought, to another person.
114
00:15:29,929 --> 00:15:32,724
And so the fact that...
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00:15:34,768 --> 00:15:39,272
..she wants him to be writing,
and wants him to be writing
116
00:15:39,314 --> 00:15:42,275
his best work is kind of the...
117
00:15:44,027 --> 00:15:50,033
..I think is, like,
a really intense desire for connection.
118
00:15:51,868 --> 00:15:55,497
And so just the content, um,
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00:15:55,538 --> 00:15:59,876
of the letters being this desire
for connection and...
120
00:16:02,045 --> 00:16:06,591
..the actual action
of a letter being mailed...
121
00:16:07,801 --> 00:16:11,680
..are so completely parallelled
with each other.
122
00:16:16,393 --> 00:16:23,775
Zofia has so many references
to speed...and to birds.
123
00:16:23,817 --> 00:16:26,111
She says, um...
124
00:16:28,822 --> 00:16:32,617
..that their connection was immediate...
125
00:16:33,785 --> 00:16:37,122
..and speed is this only thing
that can overtake distance.
126
00:16:37,163 --> 00:16:39,541
So it's this idea that...
127
00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:47,215
..their connection...
128
00:16:47,257 --> 00:16:50,343
transcends distance...
129
00:16:52,053 --> 00:16:55,348
..is connected by language,
is connected by this letter.
130
00:17:05,525 --> 00:17:07,485
Can I get you another drink?
131
00:17:07,527 --> 00:17:09,696
Uh, yeah, I'll have the same. Thanks.
132
00:19:04,269 --> 00:19:08,315
Sorry, hi. I'm Angela.
My mother is Christine.
133
00:19:08,356 --> 00:19:14,321
Uh, my mother and I went
with Eddie, Lina and Jan to Poland.
134
00:19:14,362 --> 00:19:16,740
Uh, about, almost ten years ago.
135
00:19:16,781 --> 00:19:21,786
Jan was our fearless leader
and he led us around to family
136
00:19:21,828 --> 00:19:23,288
and many other places
137
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:25,498
and it was evident
that you could see the love
138
00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:27,876
and the caring
that they shared for each other.
139
00:19:27,917 --> 00:19:31,379
So if everyone could raise their glass...
140
00:19:31,421 --> 00:19:35,550
to happy 60th anniversary, Jan and Lina.
141
00:19:43,558 --> 00:19:49,814
Ladies and gentlemen,
please listen to this wonderful melody.
142
00:19:49,856 --> 00:19:53,818
Written by Polish composer
Andrzej Kurylewicz.
143
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,906
This is entitled Polskie drogi.
144
00:19:57,948 --> 00:20:01,534
Polish...roads, Polish ways.
145
00:20:03,244 --> 00:20:05,789
Polish journeys.
146
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:12,128
This is a beautiful, nostalgic,
and patriotic piece of music.
147
00:20:13,254 --> 00:20:17,634
That I thought would be very appropriate.
148
00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:19,386
Polskie drogi.
149
00:20:48,999 --> 00:20:51,209
Aunt Anya, I'm so glad you're here.
150
00:20:51,251 --> 00:20:53,420
Oh, Audrey, hello.
151
00:20:53,461 --> 00:20:55,213
Isn't this...something?
152
00:20:55,255 --> 00:20:57,424
It really is!
153
00:20:57,465 --> 00:21:00,510
Um, there's actually something
that I wanted to talk to you about.
154
00:21:00,552 --> 00:21:02,053
How are you?
155
00:21:02,095 --> 00:21:04,764
It's a family party.
156
00:21:04,806 --> 00:21:06,391
Yeah.
157
00:21:06,433 --> 00:21:08,184
What have you been up to this summer?
158
00:21:08,226 --> 00:21:11,271
Oh, well, surely you must know
I was in Berlin?
159
00:21:11,313 --> 00:21:12,814
Oh, no, I didn't know, I had no idea.
160
00:21:12,856 --> 00:21:17,319
Oh! Oh, well, I usually spend Berlin
summers getting ready for the Fall,
161
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,324
but, um, well, this wasn't
one of my best trips, I'm afraid.
162
00:21:22,365 --> 00:21:24,451
I'd just been having a regular day.
163
00:21:24,492 --> 00:21:28,330
I went to the Hamburger Bahnhof
and met with the curator there
164
00:21:28,371 --> 00:21:32,042
and then I was able to see
the Hanne Darboven show, which was...
165
00:21:32,083 --> 00:21:34,127
I'm so envious.
I really wanted to see that.
166
00:21:34,169 --> 00:21:35,962
It was a great show.
167
00:21:36,004 --> 00:21:40,133
I walked onto the Tiergarten, you know,
and after that I got exhausted
168
00:21:40,175 --> 00:21:43,720
and I thought I would take a rest
in the Holocaust Memorial.
169
00:21:43,762 --> 00:21:45,472
That doesn't sound restful.
170
00:21:45,513 --> 00:21:48,475
- Well, I suppose it's peaceful.
- Right.
171
00:21:48,516 --> 00:21:53,063
And, uh, then, I was there
about two minutes or so and, uh,
172
00:21:53,104 --> 00:21:56,024
I was approached by this group
of very beautiful young boys,
173
00:21:56,066 --> 00:21:58,276
about 11 or 12 years old.
174
00:21:58,318 --> 00:22:01,905
Very finely dressed and, um,
they handed me a paper
175
00:22:01,947 --> 00:22:04,908
which explained that they were deaf
176
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:07,535
and looking for donations
for their organization.
177
00:22:07,577 --> 00:22:09,037
So I, I went into my purse
178
00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:12,290
and I think I gave them
whatever I had, about 10 Euro.
179
00:22:12,332 --> 00:22:17,170
And then they gave me this paper
that was a contract that I should sign.
180
00:22:17,212 --> 00:22:19,172
And, um... And then I suppose
181
00:22:19,214 --> 00:22:22,425
they must have seen
my iPhone in my coat pocket.
182
00:22:22,467 --> 00:22:25,178
And one of them grabbed it
and they all started running.
183
00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:28,348
And so, you know I was just in shock.
184
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:32,394
And, and I yelled out, "Hey!"
you know, loud.
185
00:22:32,435 --> 00:22:37,440
But, um, then one just ran back
and handed me back my pen,
186
00:22:37,482 --> 00:22:39,651
which he wouldn't have
done if he was deaf.
187
00:22:39,693 --> 00:22:42,904
But, I was just... I didn't know
what to do, you know.
188
00:22:42,946 --> 00:22:45,782
At that part of the memorial,
the concrete blocks are so high
189
00:22:45,824 --> 00:22:49,119
I couldn't run after them,
I just felt so stupid.
190
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,788
- That's a nightmare.
- It absolutely was.
191
00:24:04,069 --> 00:24:05,445
'Anya.
192
00:24:05,487 --> 00:24:09,699
'I actually just wanted to ask you a thing
about great-grandmother Zofia's estate.
193
00:24:09,741 --> 00:24:12,077
'Basically, there was a list of inventory
194
00:24:12,118 --> 00:24:14,245
'and on that list
there's something missing,
195
00:24:14,287 --> 00:24:16,915
'which is basically there are these...'
196
00:24:16,957 --> 00:24:19,250
letters from Józef Wittlen.
197
00:24:19,292 --> 00:24:21,419
He was, like, this famous Polish poet.
198
00:24:21,461 --> 00:24:24,547
He was nominated
for the Nobel Prize at one point.
199
00:24:24,589 --> 00:24:28,259
Anyways, there are these letters
between him and Zofia.
200
00:24:28,301 --> 00:24:33,807
'But, I've looked through all of the stuff
and I can't find these letters anywhere.
201
00:24:33,848 --> 00:24:36,017
'You don't have any idea
where the letters are?'
202
00:24:36,059 --> 00:24:40,272
'No. No, I'm sorry, I don't.
203
00:24:40,313 --> 00:24:42,357
'Is it possible...
204
00:24:42,399 --> 00:24:45,068
that, when you were cleaning out
her house, like, maybe...?'
205
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:46,903
I mean, there's so many things
206
00:24:46,945 --> 00:24:49,531
that I had to care of, really,
when she died.
207
00:24:49,572 --> 00:24:51,241
- There was so much stuff I...
- Yeah.
208
00:24:51,283 --> 00:24:53,868
- 'I don't know.'
- 'I mean...'
209
00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:57,122
'I mean, there were some letters,
but they were, you know,
210
00:24:57,163 --> 00:24:59,791
'things that my boys had written
to my mother
211
00:24:59,833 --> 00:25:03,545
'or things I'd written as a child and
I just gave them to Mark and David.'
212
00:25:03,586 --> 00:25:04,963
Well, maybe they were among those?
213
00:25:05,005 --> 00:25:07,590
Like, maybe you could look at the letters
you gave Mark and David?
214
00:25:07,632 --> 00:25:09,175
They could've been mixed in with them.
215
00:25:09,217 --> 00:25:10,677
They're definitely not in there.
216
00:25:12,304 --> 00:25:14,306
'I mean, it'd be great
if you could take a look,
217
00:25:14,347 --> 00:25:16,725
'just because, I'm really just trying
to get the whole estate in order
218
00:25:16,766 --> 00:25:18,768
'and have all the objects...together
219
00:25:18,810 --> 00:25:21,187
'so I can kind of,
decide what I want to do next.'
220
00:25:21,229 --> 00:25:24,816
'I mean, uh,
there might have been someone
221
00:25:24,858 --> 00:25:27,694
'inquiring from Harvard
after the letters or...'
222
00:25:27,736 --> 00:25:29,821
'Harvard? That's interesting.'
223
00:25:29,863 --> 00:25:31,239
'Well, I can tell you,
224
00:25:31,281 --> 00:25:34,451
'I've been in and out of there all year
and it's turning into a dump.'
225
00:25:34,492 --> 00:25:37,704
I also booked an overhead projector?
226
00:25:47,297 --> 00:25:49,174
And you can't take that with you.
227
00:25:49,215 --> 00:25:51,009
I know, I'm going to finish it.
228
00:30:28,495 --> 00:30:31,915
Zofia talks a lot about...
229
00:30:32,958 --> 00:30:35,085
..birds in her poetry,
230
00:30:35,126 --> 00:30:39,005
birds basically being...messengers.
231
00:30:45,929 --> 00:30:50,725
And...basically the symbol of birds is...
232
00:30:51,768 --> 00:30:53,853
..this idea of...
233
00:30:57,065 --> 00:31:00,360
..arrival, and when a bird...
234
00:31:04,114 --> 00:31:06,074
..a bird sings out,
235
00:31:06,116 --> 00:31:10,120
that is, language uncomprehended,
236
00:31:10,161 --> 00:31:13,248
and then, when a bird flies away
237
00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:16,418
in the sky, there's a vanishing point
238
00:31:16,459 --> 00:31:19,296
at which the bird is no longer visible...
239
00:31:22,465 --> 00:31:24,217
except in...
240
00:31:24,259 --> 00:31:27,554
kind of, the echoing memory of the bird...
241
00:31:28,847 --> 00:31:31,182
..which actually doesn't last very long.
242
00:31:33,018 --> 00:31:35,020
There is...
243
00:31:37,355 --> 00:31:39,399
I've been reading a lot of Susan Howe.
244
00:31:40,567 --> 00:31:43,069
And she has really amazing...
245
00:31:43,111 --> 00:31:46,364
She has this essay called The Quarry
where she talks kind of...
246
00:31:48,074 --> 00:31:51,995
I mean, it's her essay on Wallace Stevens
and she talks a lot about...
247
00:31:52,037 --> 00:31:54,039
um...
248
00:31:57,417 --> 00:32:00,795
Basically what happens in trying to...
249
00:32:00,837 --> 00:32:02,672
articulate something,
250
00:32:02,714 --> 00:32:06,051
and the sort of grasping
that I'm talking about.
251
00:32:06,092 --> 00:32:08,929
Um...
252
00:32:08,970 --> 00:32:11,514
How the, the sort of...
253
00:32:14,851 --> 00:32:17,938
..the feeling of grasping something
and then losing it
254
00:32:17,979 --> 00:32:20,565
is basically a feeling of unreality.
255
00:32:21,691 --> 00:32:24,569
Um...
256
00:32:24,611 --> 00:32:26,738
And this feeling of un...
257
00:32:28,698 --> 00:32:31,660
..reality is basically
258
00:32:31,701 --> 00:32:34,829
what exists between all lines of poetry...
259
00:32:36,498 --> 00:32:39,209
..basically is the feeling that you feel
260
00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:42,253
almost immediately after any...
261
00:32:42,295 --> 00:32:46,049
amount of euphoria, of the feeling of...
262
00:32:46,091 --> 00:32:48,635
of life, or, like, a feeling of a moment.
263
00:32:49,844 --> 00:32:51,846
I'll see if I can find...
264
00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:15,870
Howe talks about nature,
um, about visiting a park...
265
00:33:15,912 --> 00:33:18,415
in an unfamiliar city.
266
00:33:18,456 --> 00:33:21,668
And she talks about the atmosphere
of the park in a way that...
267
00:33:23,878 --> 00:33:26,631
..reminds me
of how Zofia talks about, um...
268
00:33:28,508 --> 00:33:31,595
..about nature, she says, uh.
269
00:33:31,636 --> 00:33:34,806
"The urgent local appeal
on the part of everything,
270
00:33:34,848 --> 00:33:38,101
"immersed in time to be reinterpreted."
271
00:33:51,114 --> 00:33:53,908
She quotes the Wallace Stevens poem.
272
00:34:00,206 --> 00:34:04,294
"So much less than feeling,
so much less than speech.
273
00:34:04,336 --> 00:34:08,673
"Saying and saying the way things say,
on the level of..."
274
00:34:10,216 --> 00:34:12,761
"..on the level of that
which is not yet knowledge."
275
00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:20,894
It's almost, like, the effort...
276
00:34:20,936 --> 00:34:23,188
of everything to become language.
277
00:37:08,562 --> 00:37:10,522
'I mean,
I'd appreciate your input.
278
00:37:10,564 --> 00:37:13,650
'I'm interested in putting together
some kind of exhibition of her work.'
279
00:37:13,692 --> 00:37:15,569
'Oh, like a family event?'
280
00:37:15,610 --> 00:37:18,738
Something here? I should let you know
it's a little expensive.
281
00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:21,908
'I was thinking more
of a public gallery.'
282
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:24,202
'Oh, so this has become
quite the hobby for you.
283
00:37:24,244 --> 00:37:27,247
'Well, it's not a hobby,
it's a job.
284
00:37:27,289 --> 00:37:30,417
- 'I'm the literary executor.'
- 'And who's going to pay?'
285
00:37:30,458 --> 00:37:33,253
Well, there hasn't been any money
coming out of the estate,
286
00:37:33,295 --> 00:37:36,590
but that's because no-one's
doing any work for it.
287
00:37:36,631 --> 00:37:41,219
If you write to publishers
and try and get reprints
288
00:37:41,261 --> 00:37:43,889
or new translations,
then there's a possibility
289
00:37:43,930 --> 00:37:45,599
that money could come out of it.
290
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,977
'So you're trying to make
a business out of our family history.'
291
00:37:49,019 --> 00:37:53,106
'Am I a hobbyist
or an evil capitalist?
292
00:37:53,148 --> 00:37:56,151
'I don't even really know
what you're accusing me off.'
293
00:37:56,193 --> 00:37:59,404
Look, Audrey,
there's a misconception nowadays
294
00:37:59,446 --> 00:38:02,365
that, somehow, anyone can be a curator.
295
00:38:02,407 --> 00:38:05,452
But I can tell you,
it actually requires a lot of education
296
00:38:05,493 --> 00:38:08,872
and training and you have
to do an undergraduate degree
297
00:38:08,914 --> 00:38:10,457
and then you have to do a masters degree
298
00:38:10,498 --> 00:38:12,834
and then you have to do a placement
at an important gallery
299
00:38:12,876 --> 00:38:16,338
so that you actually see how it's done.
You can't just go and do it.
300
00:38:16,379 --> 00:38:21,509
'So, I can't try and do anything
with my great-grandmother's work
301
00:38:21,551 --> 00:38:24,346
'because I don't have a masters degree?'
302
00:38:24,387 --> 00:38:27,432
'Fuck, who cares! Do you know
how many things have to be dealt with
303
00:38:27,474 --> 00:38:29,935
'when you're dealing
with a financial estate?
304
00:38:29,976 --> 00:38:32,896
'And when someone dies, what it takes?'
305
00:38:32,938 --> 00:38:38,318
Well, it wasn't your property.
I mean, that is my property.
306
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,197
So, I mean,
I get to make the decisions about it.
307
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,659
Whether you think
it's stupid or uninteresting
308
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:47,911
is kind of beside the point.
309
00:45:26,434 --> 00:45:28,979
Hi, I'm done for the day.
310
00:45:29,020 --> 00:45:32,816
I just wondered, do you have access
to the details surrounding donations?
311
00:45:32,858 --> 00:45:36,194
Like, when they were donated and by who?
312
00:45:36,236 --> 00:45:39,573
Ah, yes, let me see. Um...
313
00:45:39,614 --> 00:45:44,452
Yes. Yes, I see here,
it was donated a year and a half ago.
314
00:45:44,494 --> 00:45:48,415
- That doesn't make any sense.
- And why is that?
315
00:45:48,456 --> 00:45:51,167
My grandmother died two years ago.
316
00:45:51,209 --> 00:45:54,546
Maria Bohdanowicz,
she was the previous literary executor.
317
00:45:54,588 --> 00:45:56,590
Mm.
318
00:45:59,217 --> 00:46:02,679
No, I don't see Maria here,
Bohdanowicz is correct.
319
00:46:02,721 --> 00:46:05,307
- Ah, it was a woman named Anya.
- Anya.
320
00:46:05,348 --> 00:46:07,893
- Yes, that's right, Anya Bohdanowicz.
- Anya...
321
00:46:09,686 --> 00:46:12,731
Anya is my aunt
and she's not the literary executor.
322
00:46:12,772 --> 00:46:15,609
- Has she passed away as well?
- Not yet.
323
00:46:20,697 --> 00:46:23,575
Maria Bohdanowicz
was the literary executor
324
00:46:23,617 --> 00:46:27,787
and she stated in her will
that the estate now belonged to me.
325
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:30,874
If you have documents saying
that Anya is the literary executor,
326
00:46:30,916 --> 00:46:32,709
those are not binding.
327
00:46:32,751 --> 00:46:35,795
And I should be able to take
the letters home today if I wanted.
328
00:46:35,837 --> 00:46:39,758
Look, if what you're saying is true...
329
00:46:39,799 --> 00:46:43,428
yes, at some point you might
be able to take them home with you.
330
00:46:43,470 --> 00:46:46,598
It will take time and legal work
to clear this up.
331
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,767
If you think you're leaving
with them this afternoon,
332
00:46:48,808 --> 00:46:51,770
I'm sorry, it's not happening.
333
00:47:02,948 --> 00:47:06,201
Well, thanks so much for meeting with me
and for the translations.
334
00:47:06,243 --> 00:47:08,203
They were really helpful.
335
00:47:08,245 --> 00:47:11,164
Um, I guess I just had
a couple specific questions
336
00:47:11,206 --> 00:47:13,542
about word choices and things.
337
00:47:13,583 --> 00:47:15,210
Um...
338
00:47:15,252 --> 00:47:18,213
For instance,
even in the first letter it says, uh,
339
00:47:18,255 --> 00:47:20,507
"I feel for you mint."
340
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:23,552
Um, I mean, I only speak English,
341
00:47:23,593 --> 00:47:27,138
I don't even, uh, know the first thing
about Polish grammar,
342
00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:30,267
and so I just wondered, um...
343
00:47:30,308 --> 00:47:36,189
I guess, how metaphors and similes
are structured in Polish?
344
00:47:36,231 --> 00:47:37,858
Um...
345
00:47:37,899 --> 00:47:44,364
Like, in English you would have to say,
"I feel for you like I feel for mint."
346
00:47:44,406 --> 00:47:47,617
Um... Is it different in Polish?
347
00:47:47,659 --> 00:47:50,078
I guess is my question.
348
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,164
I have a really short answer
for that. Um, I have no idea.
349
00:47:53,206 --> 00:47:55,083
Mm.
350
00:47:55,125 --> 00:47:57,127
I didn't really preoccupy myself
351
00:47:57,168 --> 00:48:00,297
with the rules of metaphors
or the rules of grammar.
352
00:48:00,338 --> 00:48:05,135
Um... Now here she's referring
to a poem that she wrote, right?
353
00:48:05,176 --> 00:48:08,388
Called, uh, "Mint Mint Thyme".
354
00:48:08,430 --> 00:48:11,725
So, "I feel for you mint."
355
00:48:11,766 --> 00:48:15,270
Mint is a spice, right?
A seasoning. A herb?
356
00:48:15,312 --> 00:48:18,190
- A herb.
- A herb, or "erb".
357
00:48:18,231 --> 00:48:20,192
It's really powerful right?
It really comes out,
358
00:48:20,233 --> 00:48:22,360
it really has a strong, strong flavour.
359
00:48:22,402 --> 00:48:23,945
Like if you... Whatever you cook,
360
00:48:23,987 --> 00:48:26,198
even though it's spiced
with garlic or what not
361
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,367
if you add mint,
mint always comes out, right?
362
00:48:29,409 --> 00:48:33,288
Now, she's referring to a poem
that she wrote, to him, right?
363
00:48:33,330 --> 00:48:36,499
But the gist of it
is that she is calling him mint
364
00:48:36,541 --> 00:48:39,002
in the sense that,
whatever he's going through in his life
365
00:48:39,044 --> 00:48:41,630
whatever she is going through
in her life...
366
00:48:41,671 --> 00:48:43,757
um, and notice that...
367
00:48:43,798 --> 00:48:46,384
One of the through lines
of all the letters is she...
368
00:48:46,426 --> 00:48:48,386
Um...
369
00:48:48,428 --> 00:48:51,890
I don't want to say blame,
but kind of blames him for his life,
370
00:48:51,932 --> 00:48:53,892
that he's so busy in a city,
371
00:48:53,934 --> 00:48:57,437
instead of moving to a peaceful place
and devoting himself to, to poetry.
372
00:48:57,479 --> 00:49:01,483
So, basically, what she's saying
is she sees, his...
373
00:49:01,525 --> 00:49:03,401
his beauty of expression.
374
00:49:03,443 --> 00:49:08,615
She sees him, and also she's saying
that her affection for him,
375
00:49:08,657 --> 00:49:10,617
through thick and thin,
through whatever she's...
376
00:49:10,659 --> 00:49:12,827
But in terms of...
377
00:49:12,869 --> 00:49:14,454
the sentence structure,
378
00:49:14,496 --> 00:49:16,331
"I feel for you mint."
379
00:49:16,373 --> 00:49:18,792
Like, can you say, "I feel for you sun."
380
00:49:18,833 --> 00:49:20,502
"I feel for you dog."
381
00:49:20,544 --> 00:49:22,546
- Like...
- You could, if...
382
00:49:22,587 --> 00:49:24,589
if whatever she wrote before
383
00:49:24,631 --> 00:49:27,300
referenced dog, or sun,
384
00:49:27,342 --> 00:49:29,469
in a way that
would express deep affection,
385
00:49:29,511 --> 00:49:34,224
because... It's simply based
on something she wrote before, you know?
386
00:49:34,266 --> 00:49:38,311
And, I wouldn't get hung up on...
387
00:49:38,353 --> 00:49:42,399
you know, structure and stuff like that,
it's the content that's more...
388
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,193
important here, the content,
the narrative of affection and love
389
00:49:45,235 --> 00:49:48,363
that's throughout
all these letters here.
390
00:49:48,405 --> 00:49:51,116
- Why... Yeah.
- I mean, I guess...
391
00:49:54,077 --> 00:49:57,747
I mean, I suppose I consider
myself a close reader.
392
00:49:57,789 --> 00:50:00,959
I am interested...
My line of inquiry is...
393
00:50:02,627 --> 00:50:05,630
- ..grammar, um...
- Yeah.
394
00:50:05,672 --> 00:50:11,553
And, I mean, I'm interested
in the letters as objects.
395
00:50:11,595 --> 00:50:12,721
Um...
396
00:50:12,762 --> 00:50:16,099
It's more, it's the content
of what she's writing, right?
397
00:50:16,141 --> 00:50:21,188
That's, that's kind of...
the meat of those letters.
398
00:50:21,229 --> 00:50:23,064
Do you understand? Like...
399
00:50:25,442 --> 00:50:26,985
She's expressing affection.
400
00:50:27,027 --> 00:50:28,778
- Yeah.
- Did you get that?
401
00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:30,822
- Like, there's...
- Yeah...
402
00:50:30,864 --> 00:50:33,575
Like, throughout the letters,
is a journey, right?
403
00:50:33,617 --> 00:50:36,995
A physical journey, she goes
from Wales, comes to Canada.
404
00:50:37,037 --> 00:50:38,371
Now, also, that journey,
405
00:50:38,413 --> 00:50:41,750
there's another journey,
her distance to him.
406
00:50:41,791 --> 00:50:46,296
She always expresses it.
She mentions it, uh, quite a few times,
407
00:50:46,338 --> 00:50:49,049
"When I go to Toronto,
we're going to be physically closer."
408
00:50:49,090 --> 00:50:52,510
Yeah, I mean, I see...
409
00:50:52,552 --> 00:50:54,721
love, in it, but...
410
00:50:58,141 --> 00:51:00,852
I see admiration and respect.
411
00:51:00,894 --> 00:51:05,148
And maybe a bit of...
fantasy of love...
412
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:06,900
Um...
413
00:51:06,942 --> 00:51:08,485
- On her part.
- I don't want to...
414
00:51:08,527 --> 00:51:13,114
Yeah, I don't want to condescend...
415
00:51:13,156 --> 00:51:15,283
to my great-grandmother, but it...
416
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:21,289
..it seemed a bit imagined.
417
00:51:21,331 --> 00:51:24,876
Did you read the poem she wrote, um...
418
00:51:24,918 --> 00:51:27,045
right after they met in Toronto?
The whole...
419
00:51:27,087 --> 00:51:29,923
- Yeah, I actually, I have it, with me.
- You have the poem with you? Okay.
420
00:51:29,965 --> 00:51:31,675
- Yeah, I do.
- Can I read it to you, actually?
421
00:51:31,716 --> 00:51:33,510
Okay.
422
00:51:44,229 --> 00:51:46,606
That is so dark.
423
00:51:46,648 --> 00:51:49,734
- What is?
- Well, "We met on the day of atonement
424
00:51:49,776 --> 00:51:53,113
"when the sky swelled with the tears
of Israel... By the day of atonement.
425
00:51:53,154 --> 00:51:58,243
"For the first time, we examined together
the clay frames of our souls."
426
00:51:58,285 --> 00:52:02,914
And then she goes on,
"Those stale and archaic amphoras"
427
00:52:02,956 --> 00:52:06,835
This is... This is after they first met.
That's how she sees their...
428
00:52:06,877 --> 00:52:08,086
She mentions in her letters
429
00:52:08,128 --> 00:52:10,589
that she was extremely elated
and happy that they met,
430
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:13,300
and yet, they didn't talk.
431
00:52:13,341 --> 00:52:17,262
But I wanted to skip to the end,
She goes, um...
432
00:52:17,304 --> 00:52:21,725
"Clouded heavens, thundered loud music
of the trumpets of Jerusalem
433
00:52:21,766 --> 00:52:24,311
"the archangel extinguished the sun."
434
00:52:24,352 --> 00:52:26,813
- Yeah!
- Oh, my God.
435
00:52:26,855 --> 00:52:30,150
It's, uh... "We met
and it was the apocalypse."
436
00:52:30,192 --> 00:52:33,528
Exactly! Exactly.
437
00:52:33,570 --> 00:52:37,073
"And the funereal earth was bursting."
438
00:52:37,115 --> 00:52:39,743
"This was our first encounter.
439
00:52:39,784 --> 00:52:42,996
"The next will take place
on Judgment Day."
440
00:52:47,334 --> 00:52:50,378
"June 26th, 1958.
441
00:52:50,420 --> 00:52:52,547
"Dear Mr Józef
442
00:52:52,589 --> 00:52:54,758
"I have just dug out
a barrel of vegetables
443
00:52:54,799 --> 00:52:57,886
"from the garden
of my sick roommate, for sale.
444
00:52:57,928 --> 00:53:00,847
"The vegetables, not the roommate.
445
00:53:00,889 --> 00:53:06,102
"I have planted some 200 lettuce plants.
Now I'm making broth, and writing to you."
446
00:53:07,812 --> 00:53:10,106
"The more we get to know each other,
through these letters,
447
00:53:10,148 --> 00:53:13,068
"the more I get preoccupied about you,
dear sir.
448
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:17,531
"You are living in a climate
harmful to your soul...
449
00:53:17,572 --> 00:53:21,076
"causing physical disorders,
motorial sadness,
450
00:53:21,117 --> 00:53:23,495
"and even more importantly,
451
00:53:23,537 --> 00:53:26,831
"the destruction of the wings
of your creativity.
452
00:53:26,873 --> 00:53:30,460
"You were born to be a poet,
this is why you got your life.
453
00:53:30,502 --> 00:53:34,130
"Still, you flounce between futile things,
and suffer.
454
00:53:34,172 --> 00:53:36,633
"Because nothing torments
a human being more
455
00:53:36,675 --> 00:53:39,970
"than missing the mission
given to us by God."
456
00:53:40,011 --> 00:53:43,807
"That almost sounds stupid,
but I would like, somehow, to be helpful."
457
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:50,063
"Sometimes, while sitting
in the silence of my countryside,
458
00:53:50,105 --> 00:53:52,941
"I think about people in the city.
459
00:53:52,983 --> 00:53:57,863
"Dirt, noise, rashness, polluted air.
460
00:53:57,904 --> 00:54:00,574
"Working in foul smelling dusty places
461
00:54:00,615 --> 00:54:05,078
"and relaxing with cinema,
television and newspapers.
462
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,831
"That is how a human being is killed."
463
00:54:10,041 --> 00:54:12,711
"Let's stop complaining
about modern times though.
464
00:54:12,752 --> 00:54:14,504
"It is a privilege of old people.
465
00:54:14,546 --> 00:54:18,049
"Still, I do not want to trespass
on your patience.
466
00:54:18,091 --> 00:54:22,178
"The world turns around anyway,
and whining won't do any good.
467
00:54:22,220 --> 00:54:27,809
"Run for your life is the rule,
so, please, run, dear sir.
468
00:54:27,851 --> 00:54:31,271
"And write me some more about you
because I do really feel for you."
469
00:54:32,981 --> 00:54:34,941
"Me, and my husband are sending you
470
00:54:34,983 --> 00:54:37,819
"thousands of warm wishes
of getting better."
471
00:54:39,321 --> 00:54:41,323
"Zofia Bohdanowiczowa."
472
00:54:43,700 --> 00:54:45,702
Your turn.
473
00:54:50,957 --> 00:54:54,961
I want to read the one
where she calls him Mr Bird.
474
00:55:39,548 --> 00:55:43,969
"The 23rd of January, 1959.
475
00:55:44,010 --> 00:55:46,221
"Dear Mr Józef.
476
00:55:46,263 --> 00:55:49,766
"I have not been writing to you
for such a long time.
477
00:55:49,808 --> 00:55:52,060
"I mean, since your trip to Europe.
478
00:55:52,102 --> 00:55:54,896
"I sent a letter
to poste restante in Munich
479
00:55:54,938 --> 00:55:57,148
"but I don't know if you received it.
480
00:55:57,190 --> 00:56:00,360
"In fact, you have been flying
from one country to another.
481
00:56:00,402 --> 00:56:04,155
"I can almost imagine
all those dazzlements and enchantments.
482
00:56:04,197 --> 00:56:06,658
"Some disenchantments too.
483
00:56:06,700 --> 00:56:10,245
"Sometimes places we miss are prettier
in our memories than in reality.
484
00:56:11,788 --> 00:56:14,583
"Have you had a good rest
after that travel?
485
00:56:14,624 --> 00:56:19,713
"I always imagine you as a wild bird,
storming within the walls of a skyscraper.
486
00:56:19,754 --> 00:56:22,883
"Angry and frightened at the same time.
487
00:56:22,924 --> 00:56:26,595
"I should have started this letter
with, 'Dear Mr Bird',
488
00:56:26,636 --> 00:56:29,806
"because it's all about
flying over Europe.
489
00:56:29,848 --> 00:56:33,143
"Somehow I can't help writing
in that birdy mood."
490
00:56:35,604 --> 00:56:37,939
"I would like to write
something about myself too,
491
00:56:37,981 --> 00:56:39,649
"but this countryside is so plain
492
00:56:39,691 --> 00:56:42,068
"that it is hard
to pick something interesting."
493
00:56:43,570 --> 00:56:45,906
"Today is an exceptionally pleasant day
494
00:56:45,947 --> 00:56:48,575
"because all the literary work
is knocked off,
495
00:56:48,617 --> 00:56:52,621
"the laundry done, the sewing is ready
and the house is clean.
496
00:56:52,662 --> 00:56:56,499
"I can sit and write to my dear Mr Józef
497
00:56:56,541 --> 00:56:59,961
"who has surely forgotten me a bit.
It's my fault after all."
498
00:57:01,421 --> 00:57:03,882
"We are getting ready
for moving overseas.
499
00:57:03,924 --> 00:57:08,511
"Probably this summer,
unless something unpredictable happens.
500
00:57:08,553 --> 00:57:12,682
"I'm not keen on leaving,
perhaps because I feel well here.
501
00:57:12,724 --> 00:57:16,853
"But if I move to Canada,
I will manage to meet you sooner or later.
502
00:57:16,895 --> 00:57:19,856
"That is one of the great attractions
I am looking forward to
503
00:57:19,898 --> 00:57:21,900
"on the other hemisphere.
504
00:57:21,942 --> 00:57:24,986
"Sincere regards, Zofia Bohdanowiczowa."
505
00:57:38,208 --> 00:57:41,503
I have to get a train
pretty early in the morning.
506
00:57:43,588 --> 00:57:45,882
Okay.
507
00:58:00,313 --> 00:58:03,650
You're going to have to find
your own lift back to the city.
508
00:58:03,692 --> 00:58:05,443
The party isn't over yet.
509
00:58:05,485 --> 00:58:07,320
Well, I can see that.
It's just Sasha called me,
510
00:58:07,362 --> 00:58:10,448
he's had some kind of emergency
and I have to go.
511
00:58:11,491 --> 00:58:15,328
I had planned to get a lift back with you
and we're all the way in Etobicoke.
512
00:58:15,370 --> 00:58:16,872
I'm sure you'll figure something out.
513
00:58:16,913 --> 00:58:19,040
No-one else is getting
a ride back into the...
514
01:00:05,605 --> 01:00:07,399
I remember,
when you were a little girl,
515
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,234
you loved to make forts.
516
01:00:09,276 --> 01:00:12,445
You would take all the couch cushions off
and you would pile them up
517
01:00:12,487 --> 01:00:16,032
and take every blanket you could find
from everywhere in the house
518
01:00:16,074 --> 01:00:20,954
and make this, this little castle
that you'd move into
519
01:00:20,996 --> 01:00:24,165
and you would do everything in there
520
01:00:24,207 --> 01:00:28,378
you would nap,
you would talk to yourself, sing...
521
01:00:28,420 --> 01:00:32,507
have imaginary friends and...
you even wanted to eat in there.
522
01:00:34,676 --> 01:00:36,052
But there came a time
523
01:00:36,094 --> 01:00:40,640
when you actually had to take on
the consequences of your actions.
524
01:00:40,682 --> 01:00:45,228
And your mother said
that you had to clean up your mess.
525
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:47,230
And she was right.
526
01:00:47,272 --> 01:00:50,317
She told you that if you did not
put all the couch cushions
527
01:00:50,358 --> 01:00:52,110
back where they belonged
528
01:00:52,152 --> 01:00:54,654
that you wouldn't be able
to eat any supper.
529
01:00:56,114 --> 01:01:00,577
Well, you tried to put that couch
together but you just couldn't.
530
01:01:00,619 --> 01:01:05,081
You couldn't figure out
how one cushion should go on the bottom
531
01:01:05,123 --> 01:01:07,542
or another should go on the top, and...
532
01:01:07,584 --> 01:01:10,670
and so, being the little brat
that you were,
533
01:01:10,712 --> 01:01:13,715
you just refused
and went on a hunger strike.
534
01:01:13,757 --> 01:01:16,259
And you were so spoiled.
535
01:01:16,301 --> 01:01:20,222
You were so spoiled
and you were so entitled.
536
01:01:20,263 --> 01:01:22,933
I mean, you had no capacity for work.
537
01:01:22,974 --> 01:01:26,061
You had no understanding
of what it actually took
538
01:01:26,102 --> 01:01:28,772
to clean up after your own mess.
539
01:01:28,813 --> 01:01:31,650
And it took you, I don't know,
maybe three or four days
540
01:01:31,691 --> 01:01:35,028
to actually figure out
how to put the couch together again.
541
01:01:35,070 --> 01:01:38,615
And then all of a sudden,
you understood, you actually understood
542
01:01:38,657 --> 01:01:43,411
what it takes to make something,
and the work that's involved.
543
01:01:43,453 --> 01:01:46,915
You understood the consequences
of messing around.
544
01:01:46,957 --> 01:01:49,417
You weren't interested
in making forts any more.
44561
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