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In South Carolina
in the early 1950s,
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the children who went to
the 'Scott's Branch School'
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00:00:51,956 --> 00:00:53,457
had no way of knowing
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00:00:53,458 --> 00:00:56,461
that their school
and their story
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00:00:56,461 --> 00:00:58,463
would one day have a place
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00:00:58,463 --> 00:01:01,466
in the history books
of their country.
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Good morning.
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I pledge allegiance
to the flag
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of the United States
of America
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00:02:13,404 --> 00:02:16,407
and to the republic
for which it stands,
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00:02:16,908 --> 00:02:19,410
one nation, indivisible,
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00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:21,912
with liberty
and justice for all.
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00:02:24,415 --> 00:02:25,916
How are you all
this morning?
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00:02:26,417 --> 00:02:28,419
Fine.
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00:02:28,419 --> 00:02:30,421
I think what we'll
do this morning
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00:02:30,421 --> 00:02:32,923
is practice our handwriting.
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00:02:33,424 --> 00:02:35,926
Has everybody got
a pencil and paper?
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I need a pencil.
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00:02:37,428 --> 00:02:40,431
You need a pencil.
All right.
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00:02:40,431 --> 00:02:41,932
Here, you get a pencil.
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00:02:41,933 --> 00:02:43,935
All right.
You can start now.
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00:02:45,937 --> 00:02:47,438
That's good.
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00:03:04,454 --> 00:03:06,456
Sorry, rev.
found the boy asleep.
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00:03:06,456 --> 00:03:07,957
Figured I ought
to bring him over here.
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00:03:09,209 --> 00:03:10,210
Harry Jr., you better
hustle in there
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00:03:10,210 --> 00:03:11,211
and get to work.
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00:03:11,211 --> 00:03:12,595
Go on!
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00:03:17,601 --> 00:03:19,603
Your boy's not keeping
up around here, Harry.
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00:03:19,603 --> 00:03:21,104
Well, he walks here
near 5 miles
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00:03:21,104 --> 00:03:22,105
every morning, rev,
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00:03:22,105 --> 00:03:24,107
and home every night.
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00:03:24,107 --> 00:03:25,108
Every time he looks
at those books of his,
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00:03:25,108 --> 00:03:28,111
he falls sound asleep.
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00:03:28,111 --> 00:03:29,612
Well, Mr. Kerrigan finds
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00:03:29,613 --> 00:03:30,614
I've been chauffeuring
Harry around
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00:03:31,114 --> 00:03:33,616
on his time
and in his truck,
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00:03:33,617 --> 00:03:35,619
I'll lose me
a pretty sweet job.
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00:03:39,122 --> 00:03:40,623
Good. Look up.
39
00:03:42,626 --> 00:03:47,631
Ok. Now, what's
3 times 8?
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00:03:47,631 --> 00:03:49,633
And where
does the 4 go?
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00:03:49,633 --> 00:03:51,134
That's right.
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00:03:51,134 --> 00:03:52,635
Carry the 2.
That's right.
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00:03:52,636 --> 00:03:54,638
That's right.
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00:03:54,638 --> 00:03:56,640
Now, you do
the next one.
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00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,642
6 times 8.
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00:04:10,654 --> 00:04:12,155
All right,
put away your things
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00:04:12,155 --> 00:04:13,656
and leave quietly.
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00:05:32,486 --> 00:05:34,488
I'm Reverend Delaine.
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00:05:34,488 --> 00:05:37,491
I'm principal at
'Scott's Branch School.'
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00:05:37,491 --> 00:05:39,993
Is superintendent
Springer in?
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00:05:41,495 --> 00:05:43,497
May I see him?
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00:05:43,497 --> 00:05:45,999
Hey, get on
in here, J.A.
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00:05:49,002 --> 00:05:50,503
Hey, J.A.
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00:05:50,504 --> 00:05:54,007
Who's minding things
over at Scott's Branch?
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00:05:54,007 --> 00:05:56,009
Mr. Springer,
we have a serious problem
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00:05:56,009 --> 00:05:57,510
over at our place.
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00:05:57,511 --> 00:05:59,513
We got problems
everywhere.
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00:05:59,513 --> 00:06:02,015
Don't you know that?
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00:06:02,516 --> 00:06:05,519
Yeah. Education
is hard work.
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00:06:05,519 --> 00:06:08,021
Too much to teach,
too little time.
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00:06:08,021 --> 00:06:11,024
My children have
to walk to school.
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00:06:11,525 --> 00:06:14,027
Some walk 5, 6 miles.
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00:06:14,528 --> 00:06:16,029
Some have stopped
coming at all.
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00:06:16,029 --> 00:06:19,532
It's a bad situation, sir.
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00:06:19,533 --> 00:06:21,034
We need a bus.
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00:06:21,034 --> 00:06:23,536
Runnin' schools
is expensive.
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00:06:24,037 --> 00:06:25,538
There's salaries,
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00:06:25,539 --> 00:06:27,541
maintenance, insurance.
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00:06:27,541 --> 00:06:29,543
Books, heat, electricity.
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00:06:30,043 --> 00:06:31,044
It costs a ton of money.
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00:06:31,044 --> 00:06:33,546
We just need one bus.
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00:06:33,547 --> 00:06:35,549
You've got 30 buses
for the white children.
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00:06:36,049 --> 00:06:38,551
Now, you know well
as anybody white people
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00:06:38,552 --> 00:06:40,554
pay more taxes
than colored people do.
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00:06:40,554 --> 00:06:43,056
Give us your oldest bus.
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00:06:43,056 --> 00:06:44,557
We'll pay for the gas.
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00:06:44,558 --> 00:06:47,561
Now, how can I make
myself clear?
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00:06:47,561 --> 00:06:49,062
Now, we just
ain't got any money
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00:06:49,062 --> 00:06:51,564
for buses for
your nigger children.
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00:06:58,939 --> 00:07:00,941
We need to talk, Harry.
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00:07:02,943 --> 00:07:04,444
This is Howard Bullwer.
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00:07:04,444 --> 00:07:07,447
Mr. Bullwer's an attorney.
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00:07:07,447 --> 00:07:09,449
Come on in.
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00:07:09,449 --> 00:07:11,951
What we have here,
Mr. Briggs, is a petition
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00:07:11,952 --> 00:07:14,454
to the Clarendon county
board of education.
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00:07:14,454 --> 00:07:16,456
It says that you,
"Being the father
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00:07:16,456 --> 00:07:18,458
"of Harry Briggs, JR., age 12,
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00:07:18,458 --> 00:07:20,460
"want school bus
transportation
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00:07:20,460 --> 00:07:22,962
"to be furnished,
maintained, and operated
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00:07:22,963 --> 00:07:24,965
"out of the public school
district number 26
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00:07:24,965 --> 00:07:25,966
"of Clarendon county
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00:07:25,966 --> 00:07:28,467
"for the said use
of said child
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00:07:28,467 --> 00:07:31,470
and other negro schoolchildren
similarly situated."
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00:07:31,470 --> 00:07:32,971
If they use tax money
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00:07:32,972 --> 00:07:35,474
to give bus service
to the white children,
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00:07:35,474 --> 00:07:37,476
they have to
give it to us, too.
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00:07:37,476 --> 00:07:40,479
The 14th amendment
to the constitution states
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00:07:40,479 --> 00:07:43,482
that each citizen is
guaranteed equal protection
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00:07:43,482 --> 00:07:44,483
under the law.
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00:07:44,984 --> 00:07:46,485
Would this
go to court?
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00:07:47,870 --> 00:07:49,371
It could.
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00:07:49,872 --> 00:07:50,873
Harry.
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00:07:52,241 --> 00:07:55,244
Well...
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00:07:55,244 --> 00:07:56,745
I don't guess
I spent 3 years
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00:07:56,745 --> 00:07:58,246
in the U.S. Navy
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00:07:58,247 --> 00:08:02,751
to keep the world
safe for Jim Crow.
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00:08:25,157 --> 00:08:26,158
Reverend...
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00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,662
I sure hope this man
know his business.
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00:08:52,935 --> 00:08:54,937
What do you boys want?
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00:09:30,589 --> 00:09:33,592
Hello, Mr. Springer.
won't you come in?
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00:09:33,592 --> 00:09:35,594
No, just stoppin'
for a minute.
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00:09:37,096 --> 00:09:40,099
What is
this business, J.A.?
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00:09:44,603 --> 00:09:46,605
Now, Harry Briggs
and that negro lawyer
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00:09:46,605 --> 00:09:49,107
are makin' a mess
with this bus business.
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00:09:52,111 --> 00:09:54,113
Some say you're
in on it, too.
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00:09:57,116 --> 00:10:00,619
Now, look, Delaine,
Briggs is suin' me,
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00:10:00,619 --> 00:10:02,621
and you and I
work together.
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00:10:02,621 --> 00:10:05,624
We're part of
the same school system.
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00:10:05,624 --> 00:10:08,126
Doesn't make sense
for people to be in court
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00:10:08,127 --> 00:10:11,630
causin' a bunch
of trouble we don't need.
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00:10:11,630 --> 00:10:16,134
What we need is a bus
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00:10:16,635 --> 00:10:18,136
and some more money
for our school.
123
00:10:18,137 --> 00:10:19,638
Well, you're not
gonna get it in court.
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00:10:20,139 --> 00:10:21,640
All you're gonna get
in court is a big dose
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00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,142
of trouble you don't need.
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00:10:27,146 --> 00:10:29,648
Delaine...
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00:10:29,648 --> 00:10:32,651
you better call
these people off.
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00:10:32,651 --> 00:10:36,154
I'm holding
you responsible.
129
00:10:36,155 --> 00:10:38,157
You hear me?
130
00:10:41,543 --> 00:10:43,545
I told you,
Josiah C. Tulley's
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00:10:43,545 --> 00:10:44,546
the smartest
son of a bitch
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00:10:44,546 --> 00:10:46,548
in the Southeastern
United States,
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00:10:46,548 --> 00:10:47,549
maybe the whole
damn country.
134
00:10:48,050 --> 00:10:49,551
Well, modesty does
not allow ranting.
135
00:10:49,551 --> 00:10:50,552
It's just
that some lawyers
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00:10:51,053 --> 00:10:52,054
do not
do their homework.
137
00:10:52,054 --> 00:10:54,056
And it's not
that Tulley is so good.
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00:10:54,056 --> 00:10:55,057
It's that our niggers
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00:10:55,057 --> 00:10:56,558
don't even know
where they live.
140
00:11:00,062 --> 00:11:02,931
It was cold in Korea today,
141
00:11:02,931 --> 00:11:05,934
with the mercury down
to 9 degrees below zero.
142
00:11:05,934 --> 00:11:08,937
In the air, our saber jets
destroyed one enemy mig
143
00:11:08,937 --> 00:11:09,938
and damaged another...
144
00:11:09,938 --> 00:11:11,439
We had no way of knowing
145
00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:13,441
that your place here
was on the wrong side
146
00:11:13,442 --> 00:11:15,944
of the district line.
147
00:11:15,944 --> 00:11:18,446
You pay taxes
in district 5.
148
00:11:18,447 --> 00:11:21,450
The school
is in district 22.
149
00:11:21,450 --> 00:11:22,951
It turns out you lack
legal standing
150
00:11:23,452 --> 00:11:24,453
in the court.
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00:11:24,453 --> 00:11:26,955
Well, I don't know
much about the courts,
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00:11:26,955 --> 00:11:27,956
but this business means
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00:11:27,956 --> 00:11:28,957
everybody's makin'
a fool of me,
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00:11:29,458 --> 00:11:31,960
sayin' I don't even
know where I live.
155
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,462
It's a technicality.
156
00:11:34,463 --> 00:11:37,466
Well, my boy's
still walkin' to school.
157
00:11:43,472 --> 00:11:45,974
Mr. Briggs...
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00:11:45,974 --> 00:11:48,476
I do some work with
the legal defense fund
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00:11:48,477 --> 00:11:49,478
of the national association
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00:11:49,478 --> 00:11:51,980
for the advancement
of colored people.
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00:11:51,980 --> 00:11:55,482
I talked with
the NAACP's top man
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00:11:55,483 --> 00:11:56,984
in New York
at headquarters,
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00:11:57,485 --> 00:11:57,985
a lawyer.
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00:11:58,486 --> 00:12:00,488
He's prepared
to come here
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00:12:00,488 --> 00:12:02,990
and meet with us.
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00:12:02,990 --> 00:12:05,809
He's won cases
in the south.
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00:12:08,312 --> 00:12:11,815
If we back off now...
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00:12:12,316 --> 00:12:14,318
we'll never get anything.
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00:13:22,386 --> 00:13:24,388
That's good hymn-singing.
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00:13:30,394 --> 00:13:31,895
I'm reverend Delaine.
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00:13:31,896 --> 00:13:33,397
Thurgood Marshall.
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00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:47,411
What happened
to Harry Briggs
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00:13:47,411 --> 00:13:49,913
happens everywhere
we go.
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00:13:49,914 --> 00:13:51,916
Putting one man
out front is risky.
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00:13:51,916 --> 00:13:53,417
They'll find a way
to disqualify him
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00:13:53,918 --> 00:13:55,419
or to scare him off.
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00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,422
If there are 20 people here
in Summerton
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00:13:58,422 --> 00:14:00,424
who are willing to sign
a complaint
179
00:14:00,424 --> 00:14:02,926
against the school board,
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00:14:02,927 --> 00:14:04,428
we will bring a case here.
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00:14:06,931 --> 00:14:08,432
What sort of case?
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00:14:08,432 --> 00:14:11,435
Your county spends...
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00:14:11,435 --> 00:14:14,438
$179 a year
for each white child
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00:14:14,438 --> 00:14:16,940
and only $43
for each colored child.
185
00:14:16,941 --> 00:14:17,942
That's not equal,
and that means
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00:14:17,942 --> 00:14:19,944
it's against the law,
pure and simple.
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00:14:19,944 --> 00:14:22,446
But Mr. Marshall,
when I was a boy,
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00:14:22,446 --> 00:14:24,448
there was no school
here at all.
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00:14:24,448 --> 00:14:26,950
I just don't think
it's a smart thing
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00:14:26,951 --> 00:14:28,953
to put a sword to
the white man's throat.
191
00:14:28,953 --> 00:14:29,954
Mm-hmm. Yes.
192
00:14:29,954 --> 00:14:31,956
Most of us round here
are tenant farmers.
193
00:14:32,456 --> 00:14:34,458
We work
the white folks' land.
194
00:14:34,458 --> 00:14:37,461
We need money to get
seed and fertilizer.
195
00:14:37,461 --> 00:14:39,463
We have to borrow
from the banks.
196
00:14:39,463 --> 00:14:41,465
We ain't tryin'
to take anything away
197
00:14:41,465 --> 00:14:42,966
from these white folks.
198
00:14:42,967 --> 00:14:44,468
I just mean
to get an education
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00:14:44,468 --> 00:14:46,470
for that little
black boy of mine.
200
00:14:46,971 --> 00:14:47,972
He just as good
201
00:14:47,972 --> 00:14:50,474
as any other
South Carolina boy.
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00:14:50,975 --> 00:14:54,478
I'll bet he's better
than a lot of them.
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00:14:57,481 --> 00:14:59,483
Our reverend
at our church back home
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00:14:59,483 --> 00:15:00,484
used to say
he liked to think
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00:15:00,484 --> 00:15:01,485
that when the Lord
created him,
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00:15:01,986 --> 00:15:03,487
he did not do it
on a saturday
207
00:15:03,487 --> 00:15:04,488
when he was tired out
208
00:15:04,488 --> 00:15:06,990
and didn't have much
to work with.
209
00:15:06,991 --> 00:15:07,992
He said he preferred
to think
210
00:15:07,992 --> 00:15:10,494
the Lord created him
early monday morning
211
00:15:10,494 --> 00:15:11,495
when he had
the best materials
212
00:15:11,996 --> 00:15:14,999
to work with and all
the energy he needed.
213
00:15:21,005 --> 00:15:22,506
What our reverend
was saying
214
00:15:22,506 --> 00:15:24,007
is that we are equal
215
00:15:24,008 --> 00:15:26,510
to anyone on the face
of the earth.
216
00:15:26,510 --> 00:15:28,512
And the Constitution
of the United States
217
00:15:28,512 --> 00:15:29,513
says the same thing.
218
00:15:29,513 --> 00:15:32,516
14th amendment--no state
shall deny any person
219
00:15:32,516 --> 00:15:37,521
the equal protection
of the law.
220
00:15:37,521 --> 00:15:39,022
They added that amendment
221
00:15:39,023 --> 00:15:42,026
to give our folks
a fair chance.
222
00:15:42,026 --> 00:15:44,028
Mr. Marshall?
223
00:15:44,028 --> 00:15:46,030
The law doesn't
mean much down here.
224
00:15:48,532 --> 00:15:52,035
We just finished
a case...
225
00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:53,537
where they wouldn't
admit a colored man
226
00:15:53,537 --> 00:15:56,039
into the law school
at The University of Texas.
227
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,042
The supreme court
in Washington
228
00:15:58,042 --> 00:16:00,044
said they had
to let him in
229
00:16:00,044 --> 00:16:05,049
because there was
no equal facility in Texas.
230
00:16:05,049 --> 00:16:07,051
And we all know what
these doghouse schools mean
231
00:16:07,551 --> 00:16:09,052
to the future
of our children.
232
00:16:09,053 --> 00:16:13,557
That's why the NAACP
has started test cases
233
00:16:13,557 --> 00:16:16,059
in the courts...
234
00:16:16,060 --> 00:16:20,064
in Kansas and Virginia.
235
00:16:21,565 --> 00:16:23,065
And we're willing
to bring a case here
236
00:16:23,066 --> 00:16:24,067
in South Carolina,
237
00:16:24,567 --> 00:16:26,569
but we can't do it
without you.
238
00:16:28,071 --> 00:16:31,574
If 20 taxpaying people
sign up,
239
00:16:31,574 --> 00:16:34,076
we will come down here.
240
00:16:39,582 --> 00:16:42,084
Mr. Marshall...
241
00:16:42,585 --> 00:16:44,587
what we need
to know is...
242
00:16:45,088 --> 00:16:47,090
what chance there is
of it working.
243
00:16:49,092 --> 00:16:53,096
There will be hostility
and probably reprisals,
244
00:16:53,096 --> 00:16:56,099
but the law is on our side.
245
00:17:09,112 --> 00:17:10,113
Sorry, Thurgood.
246
00:17:10,113 --> 00:17:11,614
I thought they'd
be all for it.
247
00:17:11,614 --> 00:17:13,616
Well...
248
00:17:13,616 --> 00:17:15,117
in 2 hours
I'm back on a train.
249
00:17:15,118 --> 00:17:17,120
Saturday night
I'm sleeping in my own bed,
250
00:17:17,620 --> 00:17:19,622
safe and sound
in New York City.
251
00:17:19,622 --> 00:17:20,623
I'm asking these people
252
00:17:20,623 --> 00:17:22,124
to risk their jobs
and their safety.
253
00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:24,627
That's asking a lot.
254
00:18:06,803 --> 00:18:08,304
I call you.
255
00:18:08,304 --> 00:18:10,806
So, this is what
you people do
256
00:18:10,807 --> 00:18:12,809
when I'm out of town.
257
00:18:12,809 --> 00:18:15,311
This is what we do
when you're in town.
258
00:18:15,311 --> 00:18:16,812
I see Bob Carter
likes it around here
259
00:18:16,813 --> 00:18:17,814
when I'm away.
260
00:18:17,814 --> 00:18:20,316
It's 7:00, Thurgood.
Sit in with us.
261
00:18:20,316 --> 00:18:21,317
I'm in for an hour.
262
00:18:21,317 --> 00:18:22,818
We gotta be back here
at 8:00 in the morning.
263
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,821
Greenberg,
you're the one
264
00:18:25,822 --> 00:18:26,823
doing all the work
around here.
265
00:18:26,823 --> 00:18:28,324
I can't afford to be
a civil rights lawyer
266
00:18:28,324 --> 00:18:31,827
and lose money playing
poker with those guys.
267
00:18:31,828 --> 00:18:33,830
What gives, Ruth Alice?
268
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:35,832
All right there
on your desk.
269
00:18:45,341 --> 00:18:46,842
I fold.
270
00:18:46,843 --> 00:18:47,844
Call.
271
00:18:47,844 --> 00:18:48,845
Call.
272
00:18:48,845 --> 00:18:49,846
Aces.
273
00:18:50,847 --> 00:18:51,848
3.
274
00:18:51,848 --> 00:18:53,850
That's the wrap,
money man.
275
00:18:55,852 --> 00:18:57,353
Yeah. I'll tell
you, boys,
276
00:18:57,854 --> 00:18:59,355
it's real nice being
back in New York City,
277
00:18:59,355 --> 00:19:00,856
real nice.
278
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:04,360
Thurgood.
279
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,362
South Carolina
for you.
280
00:19:06,362 --> 00:19:07,863
Yep. One second.
281
00:19:07,864 --> 00:19:09,866
Ok. Deal 'em out.
282
00:19:14,370 --> 00:19:15,371
Thurgood Marshall.
283
00:19:16,873 --> 00:19:19,375
Mr. Marshall,
I wanted you to know
284
00:19:19,375 --> 00:19:20,876
I'm starting tonight.
285
00:19:20,877 --> 00:19:24,380
I'm going
after those petitions.
286
00:19:26,382 --> 00:19:27,383
Good luck, reverend.
287
00:19:36,392 --> 00:19:37,893
ob, we gotta
start digging out
288
00:19:37,894 --> 00:19:40,396
everything there is
on South Carolina schools.
289
00:19:40,396 --> 00:19:41,897
Schools or colleges?
290
00:19:41,898 --> 00:19:42,899
Public schools.
291
00:19:42,899 --> 00:19:43,900
What county?
292
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:45,401
Clarendon. Preacher
down there is gonna try
293
00:19:45,401 --> 00:19:47,403
to get enough
signatures for a case.
294
00:19:47,403 --> 00:19:48,404
Success in a couple
295
00:19:48,404 --> 00:19:49,905
of university
graduate schools
296
00:19:49,906 --> 00:19:51,407
is one thing, Thurgood.
297
00:19:51,407 --> 00:19:53,409
When we go
after public schools,
298
00:19:53,409 --> 00:19:54,910
we got to be sure
it's the right time
299
00:19:55,411 --> 00:19:56,912
and the right place.
300
00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:02,418
That preacher's got guts.
301
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,742
All right, you get
on outta here.
302
00:21:17,743 --> 00:21:19,244
Go on.
303
00:21:48,273 --> 00:21:50,275
Get off the road!
304
00:21:50,275 --> 00:21:52,644
Move!
Get on down there!
305
00:21:55,030 --> 00:21:55,647
Pull over!
306
00:22:02,788 --> 00:22:05,791
# I'm gonna
let it shine
307
00:22:05,791 --> 00:22:09,294
# All around
the neighborhood
308
00:22:09,294 --> 00:22:12,797
# I'm gonna let it shine
309
00:22:12,798 --> 00:22:16,301
# All around
the neighborhood
310
00:22:16,301 --> 00:22:19,304
# I'm gonna let it shine
311
00:22:19,304 --> 00:22:20,805
# Let it shine
312
00:22:20,806 --> 00:22:22,808
# Let it shine
313
00:22:22,808 --> 00:22:26,678
# Let it shine
314
00:22:26,678 --> 00:22:29,681
# All in my heart
315
00:22:29,681 --> 00:22:34,185
# I'm gonna
let it shine
316
00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:37,322
# All in my heart
317
00:22:37,322 --> 00:22:39,824
# I'm gonna let it shine
318
00:22:39,825 --> 00:22:41,326
# Let it shine
319
00:22:41,326 --> 00:22:43,328
# Let it shine
320
00:22:43,328 --> 00:22:47,332
# Let it shine
321
00:22:47,332 --> 00:22:50,335
# All in my church
322
00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:53,338
# I'm gonna let it shine
323
00:22:53,338 --> 00:22:54,839
# Let it shine
324
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,341
# Let it shine
325
00:22:56,341 --> 00:22:59,961
# Let it shine #
326
00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:06,351
J.C., can't
something be done
327
00:23:06,351 --> 00:23:08,353
to settle
these people down?
328
00:23:08,353 --> 00:23:09,854
Superintendent,
can you tell me
329
00:23:09,855 --> 00:23:11,857
why your district
is the only district
330
00:23:11,857 --> 00:23:13,859
in the entire state
of South Carolina
331
00:23:13,859 --> 00:23:14,860
that has people
runnin' off
332
00:23:14,860 --> 00:23:17,863
to the NAACP
in New York?
333
00:23:17,863 --> 00:23:20,866
Like M-Mr. Tulley
says, governor,
334
00:23:21,366 --> 00:23:22,867
we've got agitators.
335
00:23:22,868 --> 00:23:25,370
A--a few stubborn people
336
00:23:25,370 --> 00:23:28,373
who are just huntin'
to make trouble.
337
00:23:28,373 --> 00:23:30,875
Our colored schools
are no different
338
00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:33,378
than any others
in the state.
339
00:23:33,378 --> 00:23:35,380
How do they compare
with the white schools?
340
00:23:38,383 --> 00:23:39,884
How much would it cost
341
00:23:39,885 --> 00:23:41,386
to make
the colored schools equal?
342
00:23:41,887 --> 00:23:42,888
Most of
the colored people
343
00:23:42,888 --> 00:23:45,006
are happy
with what they got.
344
00:23:45,006 --> 00:23:49,510
My question was,
how much would it cost?
345
00:23:49,511 --> 00:23:52,013
'cause I'm prepared to spend
some money on schools,
346
00:23:52,013 --> 00:23:53,514
substantial money,
347
00:23:53,515 --> 00:23:56,017
to avoid a legal tangle.
348
00:23:56,017 --> 00:23:57,018
Superintendent,
I would like you
349
00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:59,020
to get your house in order.
350
00:24:07,529 --> 00:24:10,031
J.C., I am
determined to show
351
00:24:10,031 --> 00:24:12,033
that segregation
and discrimination
352
00:24:12,033 --> 00:24:14,535
are not the same thing.
353
00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:16,037
Now, I want
those people to have
354
00:24:16,037 --> 00:24:18,039
what they're entitled
to by law--
355
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:19,540
equal schooling.
356
00:24:20,041 --> 00:24:21,542
I do not want
the federal courts
357
00:24:21,543 --> 00:24:24,045
pokin' around
South Carolina's classrooms.
358
00:24:24,045 --> 00:24:27,048
The courts don't wanna
fool with public schools.
359
00:24:27,048 --> 00:24:28,549
No one wants that.
360
00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:30,552
Not even your friend
judge Waring?
361
00:24:31,052 --> 00:24:33,554
He's like a loose cannon
on this kind of thing.
362
00:24:33,555 --> 00:24:35,557
The loneliest man
in town.
363
00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:37,058
Cut his ties
with his first wife,
364
00:24:37,058 --> 00:24:38,059
took up with
that yankee girl
365
00:24:38,059 --> 00:24:39,560
outta New York.
366
00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,062
He needs friends.
367
00:24:41,062 --> 00:24:43,064
Hmm. I don't trust him.
368
00:25:08,590 --> 00:25:11,092
Surprise!
369
00:25:13,094 --> 00:25:16,597
Who says a shrewd
and cunning lawyer
370
00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:20,100
can't be surprised?
371
00:25:24,104 --> 00:25:25,105
Happy birthday, baby.
372
00:25:27,107 --> 00:25:29,609
Now, before Thurgood
starts snoopin' around,
373
00:25:29,610 --> 00:25:32,112
I want Bob Carter
to say his piece.
374
00:25:32,112 --> 00:25:33,613
Don't get
Bob Carter started.
375
00:25:33,614 --> 00:25:34,615
We'll be here
all night.
376
00:25:36,617 --> 00:25:38,118
Now, Buster gets
all the credit
377
00:25:38,118 --> 00:25:39,619
for the idea,
378
00:25:39,620 --> 00:25:40,621
but it was
your affectionate
379
00:25:41,121 --> 00:25:42,622
and, uh,
overworked colleagues
380
00:25:42,623 --> 00:25:44,124
that all chipped in.
381
00:25:44,124 --> 00:25:46,126
Now, come on in here,
Thurgood.
382
00:25:54,635 --> 00:25:55,636
Mm-hmm!
383
00:25:58,639 --> 00:25:59,640
Oh, that's it,
that's it!
384
00:26:00,140 --> 00:26:03,143
Ohh!
385
00:26:03,143 --> 00:26:04,144
Yes.
386
00:26:04,144 --> 00:26:05,645
You got it right!
387
00:26:05,646 --> 00:26:07,147
This is what
I always wanted.
388
00:26:07,147 --> 00:26:09,149
My daddy was
a pullman car waiter
389
00:26:09,149 --> 00:26:12,652
for the Baltimore
& Ohio. 35 years.
390
00:26:12,653 --> 00:26:13,654
When I was a kid,
391
00:26:13,654 --> 00:26:15,155
I--I used to dream
392
00:26:15,656 --> 00:26:17,658
about being an engineer.
393
00:26:17,658 --> 00:26:18,659
When I was 20,
394
00:26:18,659 --> 00:26:21,161
my daddy got me
a job as a waiter.
395
00:26:21,161 --> 00:26:22,662
Now, look a'here.
396
00:26:22,663 --> 00:26:24,164
I got my own railroad!
397
00:27:22,356 --> 00:27:23,857
Oh.
398
00:27:23,857 --> 00:27:26,359
I'm by myself.
399
00:27:37,371 --> 00:27:38,872
We've gotten along good
over the years,
400
00:27:38,872 --> 00:27:40,874
haven't we, J.A?
401
00:27:40,874 --> 00:27:44,377
Now, I'm sorry to see
this trouble all of a sudden.
402
00:27:44,878 --> 00:27:46,880
It's not doing
anybody any good.
403
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,883
People have been livin'
and going to school
404
00:27:50,384 --> 00:27:53,387
in peace around here
for a long time now.
405
00:27:53,387 --> 00:27:57,391
And the way I see it
is, you and me,
406
00:27:57,391 --> 00:27:59,893
we gotta make sure
that continues.
407
00:28:01,395 --> 00:28:04,398
Don't you agree, J.A.?
408
00:28:04,398 --> 00:28:08,402
I'm a preacher,
Mr. Springer.
409
00:28:08,402 --> 00:28:09,903
I believe in peace.
410
00:28:09,903 --> 00:28:14,908
Yeah, I knew
we could work things out.
411
00:28:14,908 --> 00:28:17,410
I may be able
to get my hands
412
00:28:17,411 --> 00:28:19,413
on a bus
for Scott's Branch,
413
00:28:19,413 --> 00:28:22,416
keep your kids from gettin'
to school all tired out.
414
00:28:22,416 --> 00:28:25,419
This has gotten bigger
than school buses.
415
00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:27,420
I had a talk
with the governor,
416
00:28:27,421 --> 00:28:28,922
and we're gonna do
a lot around here
417
00:28:28,922 --> 00:28:30,924
to make things better.
418
00:28:30,924 --> 00:28:34,928
As soon as you call off
these legal shenanigans,
419
00:28:34,928 --> 00:28:36,930
I'm gonna recommend
to the school board
420
00:28:36,930 --> 00:28:38,932
that you get a raise.
421
00:28:44,438 --> 00:28:46,440
It's gone too far,
Mr. Springer.
422
00:28:51,945 --> 00:28:54,447
We're not turning back.
423
00:29:10,214 --> 00:29:11,715
How do, Mr. Kerrigan?
424
00:29:14,218 --> 00:29:16,220
Anything wrong?
425
00:29:16,220 --> 00:29:18,222
No.
426
00:29:18,222 --> 00:29:19,723
Just, uh,
427
00:29:19,723 --> 00:29:22,225
I got me a boy
to take over this place.
428
00:29:22,226 --> 00:29:23,727
Strong young fella.
429
00:29:24,228 --> 00:29:26,230
Someone I can count on.
Reliable.
430
00:29:26,230 --> 00:29:27,231
You been countin' on me
431
00:29:27,231 --> 00:29:29,233
for 8 years now,
Mr. Kerrigan.
432
00:29:32,736 --> 00:29:34,738
New boy will
be here tomorrow.
433
00:29:47,116 --> 00:29:48,617
66 signatures.
434
00:29:48,618 --> 00:29:50,620
This will make
a strong case.
435
00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:52,121
To ask for equal
school facilities
436
00:29:52,121 --> 00:29:53,622
or to end segregation?
437
00:29:53,623 --> 00:29:55,124
I thought
we decided that.
438
00:29:55,124 --> 00:29:56,625
The NAACP policy says
439
00:29:56,626 --> 00:29:58,127
we're gonna fight
segregation head-on.
440
00:29:58,628 --> 00:29:59,762
It doesn't say when,
441
00:29:59,762 --> 00:30:02,765
and it sure doesn't
say South Carolina.
442
00:30:02,765 --> 00:30:05,267
Separate but equal
is the law of the land.
443
00:30:05,268 --> 00:30:06,269
When we demand equal,
444
00:30:06,269 --> 00:30:08,271
we're asking for what
the law gives us.
445
00:30:08,271 --> 00:30:10,273
If we demand an end
to segregation,
446
00:30:10,273 --> 00:30:11,774
we are challenging
the laws
447
00:30:11,774 --> 00:30:13,275
of the United States.
448
00:30:13,276 --> 00:30:14,777
You wanna go
one by one
449
00:30:14,777 --> 00:30:16,779
to every school district
in the south
450
00:30:16,779 --> 00:30:18,280
trying to get the judges
to force them
451
00:30:18,281 --> 00:30:19,282
to make the colored
schools equal?
452
00:30:19,282 --> 00:30:21,284
It's the beachhead
strategy.
453
00:30:21,284 --> 00:30:23,786
Make them spend so much
making their schools equal
454
00:30:23,786 --> 00:30:26,288
that they finally
cave in and integrate.
455
00:30:26,289 --> 00:30:28,291
You know how many
segregated school districts
456
00:30:28,291 --> 00:30:29,292
there are in this country?
457
00:30:29,292 --> 00:30:32,295
11,173.
458
00:30:32,295 --> 00:30:33,296
Each case costs money,
459
00:30:33,296 --> 00:30:34,797
and even if we win
every one of them,
460
00:30:34,797 --> 00:30:35,798
it'll take forever.
461
00:30:35,798 --> 00:30:38,801
When we challenge
segregation head-on,
462
00:30:38,801 --> 00:30:40,803
we have to do it
in the right place.
463
00:30:40,803 --> 00:30:43,305
Deep south is not
the right place!
464
00:30:43,306 --> 00:30:46,309
White people down there
are terrified at the idea
465
00:30:46,309 --> 00:30:48,311
of their little white girls
going to school
466
00:30:48,311 --> 00:30:50,813
with little black boys.
467
00:30:50,813 --> 00:30:53,315
Thurgood, let's wait
for a border state.
468
00:30:53,316 --> 00:30:56,319
Wait till our
Topeka case is ready.
469
00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:57,820
We've got a chance
in Kansas.
470
00:30:57,820 --> 00:31:00,322
We always say we're gonna
fight segregation head-on,
471
00:31:00,323 --> 00:31:02,325
and then we step back.
472
00:31:02,325 --> 00:31:03,326
Sue for equal schools,
473
00:31:03,326 --> 00:31:05,328
and you're up against
a little schoolboy.
474
00:31:05,828 --> 00:31:07,329
Sue to desegregate,
and you're challenging
475
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:09,332
the sovereign state
of South Carolina.
476
00:31:09,332 --> 00:31:10,833
If we limit our case
to equal schools,
477
00:31:10,833 --> 00:31:13,836
we end up in
judge Waties Waring's court.
478
00:31:13,836 --> 00:31:14,837
He's pretty good.
479
00:31:14,837 --> 00:31:17,840
He can rule for
equal schools by himself.
480
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:18,841
Thurgood,
481
00:31:18,841 --> 00:31:20,342
if we challenge
segregation head-on,
482
00:31:20,343 --> 00:31:21,844
we challenge
the state law,
483
00:31:21,844 --> 00:31:22,845
and that would
have to be heard
484
00:31:22,845 --> 00:31:24,346
by a 3-judge court.
485
00:31:24,347 --> 00:31:25,848
Tough going.
486
00:31:25,848 --> 00:31:28,851
We can't let Delaine
and his people down.
487
00:31:32,104 --> 00:31:33,605
When we file our brief,
488
00:31:33,606 --> 00:31:35,107
do we backtrack,
489
00:31:35,608 --> 00:31:38,110
or do we challenge
the principle of segregation?
490
00:31:38,110 --> 00:31:41,613
We can go
with a 2-string bow.
491
00:31:41,614 --> 00:31:43,115
Put the challenge
of segregation in
492
00:31:43,115 --> 00:31:44,116
as a matter of principle,
493
00:31:44,116 --> 00:31:46,118
but focus the attack
on the inequality
494
00:31:46,619 --> 00:31:47,620
of the Clarendon county
school system.
495
00:31:47,620 --> 00:31:48,621
Make them live up
496
00:31:48,621 --> 00:31:51,624
to their precious
"Separate but equal."
497
00:31:54,126 --> 00:31:55,627
If we win this one,
498
00:31:55,628 --> 00:32:00,132
we'll only have 11,172
school districts left.
499
00:32:07,757 --> 00:32:10,259
This is a special time
of the year...
500
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:14,012
and I have a surprise for you.
501
00:32:14,013 --> 00:32:16,515
Guess who's coming to town.
502
00:32:16,515 --> 00:32:18,517
Who?
503
00:32:19,652 --> 00:32:21,153
Santa Claus.
504
00:32:21,153 --> 00:32:24,156
Santa Claus!
Ohh!
505
00:32:24,156 --> 00:32:25,157
Here he comes.
506
00:32:25,157 --> 00:32:27,159
Oh, ho ho ho!
507
00:32:29,662 --> 00:32:32,665
Ho ho ho!
508
00:32:32,665 --> 00:32:34,667
One for you...
509
00:32:34,667 --> 00:32:37,670
and you and you...
510
00:32:37,670 --> 00:32:39,672
Oh, ho ho ho!
511
00:32:41,674 --> 00:32:43,175
Here you go, Santa.
512
00:32:43,175 --> 00:32:44,176
Thank you.
513
00:32:44,176 --> 00:32:45,677
Merry Christmas!
514
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,681
Here, Bobby.
515
00:32:48,681 --> 00:32:50,683
Will you pass those out
on wednesday?
516
00:32:50,683 --> 00:32:53,686
Oh, ho ho ho!
517
00:32:53,686 --> 00:32:55,187
Merry Christmas!
518
00:33:02,695 --> 00:33:04,196
Merry Christmas!
519
00:33:04,196 --> 00:33:05,697
Reverend.
520
00:33:15,207 --> 00:33:17,709
J.A.,
I'll get right to it.
521
00:33:17,710 --> 00:33:19,211
James Martin here
is the new principal.
522
00:33:21,213 --> 00:33:22,214
Where?
523
00:33:22,214 --> 00:33:24,216
Well, right here.
Scott's Branch.
524
00:33:25,217 --> 00:33:28,720
The school board felt
it was time for a change.
525
00:33:28,721 --> 00:33:31,724
This will be
your office, Martin.
526
00:33:32,224 --> 00:33:34,342
Reverend Delaine
will have it cleaned out
527
00:33:34,343 --> 00:33:35,844
for you tomorrow morning.
528
00:33:38,848 --> 00:33:42,852
# Round yon virgin
529
00:33:42,852 --> 00:33:46,856
# Mother and child
530
00:33:46,856 --> 00:33:50,359
# Holy infant
531
00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:54,863
# So tender and mild
532
00:33:54,864 --> 00:34:02,872
# Sleep
in heavenly peace
533
00:34:02,872 --> 00:34:09,879
# Sleep in heavenly peace #
534
00:34:16,885 --> 00:34:18,386
You may all go home early.
535
00:34:18,386 --> 00:34:21,389
Yay!
536
00:34:41,910 --> 00:34:44,412
Here, reverend Delaine,
I made something for you.
537
00:34:47,415 --> 00:34:48,416
It's handsome.
538
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,421
You hurry on, now.
539
00:34:53,421 --> 00:34:54,922
You have
a long way to go.
540
00:35:40,101 --> 00:35:41,102
Nice meeting you.
541
00:35:41,102 --> 00:35:42,103
Yes, yes.
542
00:35:52,113 --> 00:35:54,115
Heading south,
Mr. Marshall?
543
00:35:56,117 --> 00:35:57,618
Gladys Hampton,
Mrs. Marshall.
544
00:35:57,619 --> 00:35:59,120
Detroit advocate.
545
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,621
How do you do?
546
00:36:02,123 --> 00:36:03,624
Clarendon county,
right?
547
00:36:05,126 --> 00:36:06,627
Just a little fishing trip.
548
00:36:06,628 --> 00:36:09,130
Fishing for equal schools
or something bigger?
549
00:36:11,132 --> 00:36:14,635
Mr. Marshall, a lot of us
who support the NAACP
550
00:36:14,636 --> 00:36:18,139
hope you don't reach
too far too fast.
551
00:36:18,139 --> 00:36:20,141
We are going to be...
552
00:36:20,141 --> 00:36:21,642
cautious,
553
00:36:21,643 --> 00:36:22,644
Miss Hampton.
554
00:36:23,144 --> 00:36:24,145
Well, in that case,
555
00:36:24,145 --> 00:36:26,147
you can count
on our support.
556
00:36:30,151 --> 00:36:31,152
Good night.
557
00:36:37,659 --> 00:36:39,160
Tiptoeing.
558
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,162
I'm not tiptoeing.
559
00:36:41,663 --> 00:36:42,664
The hell you're not.
560
00:36:42,664 --> 00:36:45,166
Go fast, go slow.
561
00:36:45,166 --> 00:36:46,667
A lot of people
are ready to cut me off
562
00:36:47,168 --> 00:36:50,171
at the knees if I don't
do it their way.
563
00:36:50,171 --> 00:36:55,793
It's ok if I get dragged
into the big war,
564
00:36:56,294 --> 00:36:58,296
I just can't be
the cause of it.
565
00:36:58,296 --> 00:37:00,798
Sometimes I wonder
whether god meant you
566
00:37:00,798 --> 00:37:03,801
to be a lawyer
or a politician.
567
00:37:03,801 --> 00:37:06,303
Maybe he doesn't think
there's that much
568
00:37:06,804 --> 00:37:08,305
of a difference.
569
00:37:52,483 --> 00:37:53,984
We see no reason
why these charges
570
00:37:53,985 --> 00:37:55,987
should not be dropped.
571
00:37:55,987 --> 00:37:57,488
The schools provided
for the plaintiffs
572
00:37:57,488 --> 00:37:59,490
are fully adequate.
573
00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:01,992
Mr. Marshall,
you are prepared
574
00:38:02,493 --> 00:38:04,495
to present evidence
that the school facilities
575
00:38:04,495 --> 00:38:05,996
for the plaintiffs
are not equal
576
00:38:05,997 --> 00:38:08,499
to those afforded
white students?
577
00:38:08,499 --> 00:38:11,001
We are, Your Honor.
extensive evidence.
578
00:38:11,002 --> 00:38:14,505
On page 17 of your brief,
579
00:38:14,505 --> 00:38:17,508
you raise
a different question.
580
00:38:17,508 --> 00:38:21,011
"The separate schools
cause continuing deprivation
581
00:38:21,512 --> 00:38:23,013
"and harm to negro children
582
00:38:23,014 --> 00:38:25,516
and should be discontinued."
583
00:38:25,516 --> 00:38:26,517
Correct?
584
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:30,521
Eh, state constitution
and laws of South Carolina
585
00:38:31,022 --> 00:38:33,024
are clear on that.
586
00:38:33,024 --> 00:38:37,028
Public education
must be segregated by race.
587
00:38:37,028 --> 00:38:38,029
The statute says any person
588
00:38:38,529 --> 00:38:40,530
having 1/8 or more
negro ancestry
589
00:38:40,530 --> 00:38:43,032
shall attend
colored schools. Correct?
590
00:38:43,033 --> 00:38:44,034
Correct, Your Honor.
591
00:38:44,034 --> 00:38:45,535
But if you ask
592
00:38:45,535 --> 00:38:48,037
to discontinue
separate schools,
593
00:38:48,038 --> 00:38:50,040
you are challenging
the legality
594
00:38:50,540 --> 00:38:51,541
of the South Carolina
statute
595
00:38:51,541 --> 00:38:54,544
that separates
education by race.
596
00:38:54,544 --> 00:38:59,048
Our goal here
is to get equal schools.
597
00:38:59,549 --> 00:39:01,050
Mr. Marshall,
598
00:39:01,051 --> 00:39:04,554
your brief raises
the constitutional issue
599
00:39:04,554 --> 00:39:07,056
of segregated schools,
600
00:39:07,057 --> 00:39:09,559
so it must be addressed.
601
00:39:11,061 --> 00:39:13,063
Court procedures
prohibit a single judge
602
00:39:13,063 --> 00:39:15,065
from declaring a state law
to be in conflict
603
00:39:15,565 --> 00:39:17,567
with the constitution
of the United States.
604
00:39:17,567 --> 00:39:20,570
For that, a 3-judge court
is required.
605
00:39:20,570 --> 00:39:22,572
If the court please,
606
00:39:22,572 --> 00:39:24,574
the Plessy vs. Ferguson
case,
607
00:39:24,574 --> 00:39:26,075
decided
by the supreme court
608
00:39:26,076 --> 00:39:29,079
of the United States
in 1896,
609
00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:30,080
established
the principle
610
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,581
of separate but equal.
611
00:39:32,082 --> 00:39:33,583
Since then, the right
of the states
612
00:39:33,583 --> 00:39:35,585
to have laws
separating the races
613
00:39:35,585 --> 00:39:39,088
has been upheld 7 times
by the supreme court.
614
00:39:39,089 --> 00:39:41,591
Segregation is legal.
615
00:39:41,591 --> 00:39:43,092
Now, there's no reason
616
00:39:43,093 --> 00:39:44,094
to cover
that ground again.
617
00:39:44,094 --> 00:39:45,595
Mr. Marshall,
618
00:39:45,595 --> 00:39:47,096
do you believe
separation of schools
619
00:39:47,097 --> 00:39:49,599
is consistent
with the constitution
620
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:51,601
of the United States?
621
00:39:51,601 --> 00:39:53,219
I do not, sir.
622
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:54,221
But for now,
623
00:39:54,221 --> 00:39:56,223
we simply wish
to obtain relief
624
00:39:56,223 --> 00:39:59,226
for the children
under the existing system.
625
00:39:59,226 --> 00:40:04,231
We are asking
for equal schools.
626
00:40:04,231 --> 00:40:08,735
You have already taken
the position, Mr. Marshall.
627
00:40:08,735 --> 00:40:11,237
You climb up on that horse,
628
00:40:11,238 --> 00:40:13,740
you can't climb back down.
629
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:16,242
I'll expect you to refile,
630
00:40:16,243 --> 00:40:19,746
bringing the issue
of school segregation
631
00:40:20,247 --> 00:40:22,749
clearly before
the 3-judge court.
632
00:40:47,274 --> 00:40:50,660
Waring sure did
box us in, didn't he?
633
00:40:50,660 --> 00:40:52,161
We put it in the brief,
634
00:40:52,162 --> 00:40:55,165
and he decided to hold
our feet to the fire.
635
00:40:59,169 --> 00:41:00,670
Sometimes
history takes matters
636
00:41:01,171 --> 00:41:03,173
into its own hands.
637
00:41:04,674 --> 00:41:07,176
In the Chinese language,
638
00:41:07,177 --> 00:41:09,679
the symbol for "Misfortune"
is the same
639
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:13,683
as the symbol
for "Opportunity."
640
00:41:13,683 --> 00:41:16,686
let's make this
our opportunity.
641
00:41:16,686 --> 00:41:19,188
How could we prove
that segregation
642
00:41:19,189 --> 00:41:21,691
is unfair
to our clients?
643
00:41:22,192 --> 00:41:23,193
Harold,
644
00:41:23,193 --> 00:41:26,196
what would you do
if a car runs
645
00:41:26,696 --> 00:41:28,698
into your client's car?
646
00:41:28,698 --> 00:41:30,199
I'd try
to prove damage
647
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,201
to my client
and his car.
648
00:41:31,201 --> 00:41:32,702
How, Harold?
649
00:41:32,702 --> 00:41:34,704
I'd put
expert witnesses on,
650
00:41:34,704 --> 00:41:35,705
and they'd testify
651
00:41:35,705 --> 00:41:37,707
as to how much
damage was done.
652
00:41:37,707 --> 00:41:38,708
Doctors, police,
653
00:41:38,708 --> 00:41:40,209
auto mechanics,
whatever.
654
00:41:42,212 --> 00:41:43,713
That's what
we have to do here.
655
00:41:43,713 --> 00:41:46,215
Show that our clients
are irreparably damaged
656
00:41:46,216 --> 00:41:48,718
by being forced to attend
these doghouse schools.
657
00:41:48,718 --> 00:41:50,720
Their minds
are what's damaged.
658
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:52,722
It isn't easy to prove
something we can't see.
659
00:41:52,722 --> 00:41:55,725
Thurgood...
660
00:41:55,725 --> 00:41:57,727
Kenneth Clark.
661
00:42:01,231 --> 00:42:03,733
Go to it.
662
00:42:25,372 --> 00:42:26,373
Hello, Kenneth.
663
00:42:26,373 --> 00:42:27,374
Good to see you.
664
00:42:27,374 --> 00:42:28,875
Yeah. This is
Thurgood Marshall.
665
00:42:28,875 --> 00:42:31,377
All aboard!
666
00:42:31,378 --> 00:42:32,879
What's the problem?
667
00:42:32,879 --> 00:42:34,380
Maybe he doesn't
like Charleston.
668
00:42:44,391 --> 00:42:45,892
Let's pack it up,
Dr. Clark,
669
00:42:45,892 --> 00:42:46,893
and get outta here.
670
00:43:08,297 --> 00:43:11,667
I have a court order
from judge Waring.
671
00:43:18,424 --> 00:43:19,925
All right,
professor Clark.
672
00:43:19,925 --> 00:43:23,428
You can go ahead
with your experiments.
673
00:43:23,429 --> 00:43:26,432
But court order
or no court order,
674
00:43:26,432 --> 00:43:28,434
you get your business
finished in 2 days
675
00:43:28,434 --> 00:43:30,436
and get on out
of Clarendon county.
676
00:43:30,436 --> 00:43:31,937
You hear?
677
00:43:45,834 --> 00:43:47,335
Hello, Vernon.
678
00:43:49,338 --> 00:43:50,339
Sit down.
679
00:43:55,344 --> 00:43:57,846
Show me a white doll.
680
00:43:59,848 --> 00:44:00,849
This one.
681
00:44:02,351 --> 00:44:04,353
Now show me
a colored doll.
682
00:44:08,357 --> 00:44:09,858
That one.
683
00:44:09,858 --> 00:44:11,860
Show me the doll
that you like best.
684
00:44:17,866 --> 00:44:20,368
That one.
685
00:44:20,369 --> 00:44:23,372
And which doll
is most like you?
686
00:44:33,382 --> 00:44:34,383
That one.
687
00:44:47,012 --> 00:44:48,513
All right, Anne,
688
00:44:48,514 --> 00:44:51,517
show me a white doll.
689
00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:57,522
Show me a colored doll.
690
00:45:05,531 --> 00:45:08,033
Show me the doll
that has a nice color.
691
00:45:16,542 --> 00:45:18,043
Show me the doll
692
00:45:18,043 --> 00:45:19,544
that looks ugly.
693
00:46:22,991 --> 00:46:25,994
Show me a white doll.
694
00:46:29,498 --> 00:46:31,500
Show me a negro doll.
695
00:46:36,505 --> 00:46:39,508
Which doll
is an ugly doll?
696
00:46:43,512 --> 00:46:44,513
That one.
697
00:46:45,013 --> 00:46:46,514
That's the nigger.
698
00:47:03,782 --> 00:47:05,283
5.
699
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,821
Across the USA,
700
00:47:26,822 --> 00:47:28,824
there was a rush
at recruiting offices
701
00:47:28,824 --> 00:47:30,826
as American Youth responded
702
00:47:30,826 --> 00:47:34,329
to President Truman's
call for volunteers.
703
00:47:34,329 --> 00:47:36,330
The total number
of GIS in Korea
704
00:47:36,330 --> 00:47:38,832
will soon number
1/4 million.
705
00:47:41,335 --> 00:47:43,337
American boys
doing their share
706
00:47:43,838 --> 00:47:47,341
in the struggle against
the communist aggressor.
707
00:47:47,341 --> 00:47:49,843
Bloody fighting
will continue in a conflict
708
00:47:49,844 --> 00:47:51,846
that will go far
to determine
709
00:47:51,846 --> 00:47:54,849
if freedom
will triumph over slavery.
710
00:47:54,849 --> 00:47:56,851
A new U.S. Army of defense
711
00:47:56,851 --> 00:47:59,353
is adding up
all their available power
712
00:47:59,353 --> 00:48:01,855
for the mighty job ahead.
713
00:48:15,870 --> 00:48:17,872
Unmasked
and unconcerned
714
00:48:17,872 --> 00:48:20,374
over criticism
of recent terrorism,
715
00:48:20,374 --> 00:48:22,376
South Carolina klansmen
stage a rally
716
00:48:22,877 --> 00:48:24,879
in Harley county
tobacco land.
717
00:48:24,879 --> 00:48:26,881
Weapons are
conspicuously displayed
718
00:48:27,381 --> 00:48:29,883
as the defiant ku klux klan
meets in the wake
719
00:48:29,884 --> 00:48:31,385
of reported
shootings and whippings
720
00:48:31,385 --> 00:48:34,388
by their nightriders.
721
00:48:34,889 --> 00:48:36,891
Grand dragon
Thomas Harding claims
722
00:48:36,891 --> 00:48:39,276
there are now
4 million klan members
723
00:48:39,276 --> 00:48:41,778
pledged to uphold
white supremacy.
724
00:48:44,281 --> 00:48:47,284
Across the state at
the Charleston courthouse,
725
00:48:47,284 --> 00:48:49,286
lawyers for the national
association
726
00:48:49,286 --> 00:48:51,288
for the advancement
of colored people
727
00:48:51,288 --> 00:48:52,789
have attacked
the South Carolina law
728
00:48:53,290 --> 00:48:56,793
that segregates
schoolchildren by race.
729
00:48:56,794 --> 00:48:58,796
A 3-judge federal court
will hear the complaint
730
00:48:58,796 --> 00:49:01,298
filed by parents
of the colored children
731
00:49:01,298 --> 00:49:02,799
at the Scott's Branch
School.
732
00:49:06,303 --> 00:49:08,805
Quiet up there.
733
00:50:12,369 --> 00:50:13,870
The United States
district court
734
00:50:13,871 --> 00:50:15,873
for the eastern district
of South Carolina
735
00:50:15,873 --> 00:50:16,874
is now in session.
736
00:50:16,874 --> 00:50:18,992
Judge John J. Parker
presiding
737
00:50:18,993 --> 00:50:19,994
with judge Waties Waring
738
00:50:19,994 --> 00:50:22,496
and judge
George Bell Telleman.
739
00:50:25,499 --> 00:50:28,502
the plaintiffs
call W.B. Springer.
740
00:50:34,508 --> 00:50:36,510
You, Mr. Springer,
are Clarendon's
741
00:50:36,510 --> 00:50:38,011
superintendent
of schools?
742
00:50:38,012 --> 00:50:39,013
I am.
743
00:50:39,013 --> 00:50:40,514
It is true, is it not,
744
00:50:40,514 --> 00:50:43,016
that negroes
in Clarendon county
745
00:50:43,517 --> 00:50:45,018
attend one group of schools
746
00:50:45,019 --> 00:50:46,520
and people
who are not negroes
747
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,522
attend other schools?
748
00:50:48,522 --> 00:50:49,523
That is true.
749
00:50:49,523 --> 00:50:51,024
Why is that true?
750
00:50:51,025 --> 00:50:53,027
I couldn't answer
that exactly.
751
00:50:53,027 --> 00:50:54,528
You'd have
to ask the children
752
00:50:54,528 --> 00:50:56,029
why none of them
ever asked me
753
00:50:56,030 --> 00:50:57,531
to go to one school
or another.
754
00:50:58,032 --> 00:50:59,533
Isn't it a fact
755
00:50:59,533 --> 00:51:04,037
that you do it
because of the state law?
756
00:51:04,038 --> 00:51:06,540
It's the law--
separate but equal.
757
00:51:06,540 --> 00:51:10,043
And you enforce
the segregation law.
758
00:51:10,044 --> 00:51:12,546
I do. I know
nothing but the law.
759
00:51:12,546 --> 00:51:13,547
Isn't it true
760
00:51:13,547 --> 00:51:17,050
that you spend
3 times as much
761
00:51:17,551 --> 00:51:18,552
on each white child's
education
762
00:51:18,552 --> 00:51:20,554
as each negro child?
763
00:51:20,554 --> 00:51:24,057
We have
60-odd negro schools
764
00:51:24,058 --> 00:51:26,560
and about a dozen
white schools.
765
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,562
In the rural
white schools,
766
00:51:28,562 --> 00:51:31,064
we spend less than in
the city white schools.
767
00:51:31,065 --> 00:51:35,569
Is it not true
768
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:40,574
that you spend $179
on each white student
769
00:51:40,574 --> 00:51:45,579
and $43 on each
negro child?
770
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,081
If it please
the court...
771
00:51:49,083 --> 00:51:50,584
I wish to make
a statement.
772
00:51:50,584 --> 00:51:52,085
What is it,
Mr. Tulley?
773
00:51:52,086 --> 00:51:53,587
The defendants,
774
00:51:53,587 --> 00:51:56,089
the school board
of Clarendon county,
775
00:51:56,090 --> 00:51:59,093
wish to concede
that inequalities exist
776
00:51:59,093 --> 00:52:00,594
in the schools
of this district.
777
00:52:00,594 --> 00:52:01,595
We have found this out
778
00:52:01,595 --> 00:52:03,096
from investigating
authorities.
779
00:52:03,097 --> 00:52:04,730
Mr. Tulley,
you can do that
780
00:52:04,731 --> 00:52:06,232
when you make
your opening statement.
781
00:52:06,232 --> 00:52:07,600
Your honor,
I thought if we were
782
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,101
to concede this point,
783
00:52:09,102 --> 00:52:10,603
it would eliminate the need
784
00:52:10,603 --> 00:52:14,106
for lengthy testimony
to prove inequality.
785
00:52:14,107 --> 00:52:16,609
When we discovered
the inequality
786
00:52:16,609 --> 00:52:19,111
in Summerton's
colored schools,
787
00:52:19,112 --> 00:52:21,614
governor Byrnes
proposed legislation
788
00:52:21,614 --> 00:52:23,616
for a state sales tax
789
00:52:23,616 --> 00:52:26,118
that would generate
$75 million
790
00:52:26,619 --> 00:52:28,120
for school construction.
791
00:52:28,121 --> 00:52:31,124
Now I have here
architects' drawings
792
00:52:31,124 --> 00:52:33,626
of proposed additions
and improvements
793
00:52:33,626 --> 00:52:35,127
to the Scott's
Branch School.
794
00:52:35,128 --> 00:52:37,630
Now, we urge the court
795
00:52:37,630 --> 00:52:40,132
to allow the state
reasonable time to--
796
00:52:40,133 --> 00:52:41,634
Your honor...
797
00:52:43,136 --> 00:52:44,637
what we see here
is an attempt
798
00:52:44,637 --> 00:52:46,639
by the defense to prevent us
799
00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:48,641
from developing our case.
800
00:52:48,641 --> 00:52:49,642
For us to prove
801
00:52:49,642 --> 00:52:52,144
that South Carolina's
segregation statutes
802
00:52:52,145 --> 00:52:53,146
are unconstitutional,
803
00:52:53,646 --> 00:52:55,147
we must be permitted
to present evidence
804
00:52:55,648 --> 00:52:57,149
showing that our clients
805
00:52:57,150 --> 00:53:01,654
are damaged as a result
of these laws.
806
00:53:01,654 --> 00:53:03,656
We have gone
to great expense
807
00:53:03,656 --> 00:53:07,660
to bring
expert witnesses here.
808
00:53:07,660 --> 00:53:09,161
The state seems
to be dealing
809
00:53:09,162 --> 00:53:11,164
with the problem.
810
00:53:11,164 --> 00:53:13,166
There's no need for
us to be tied up here
811
00:53:13,166 --> 00:53:14,667
listening to experts.
812
00:53:14,667 --> 00:53:17,169
Isn't there
a larger question before us?
813
00:53:17,170 --> 00:53:21,174
Is the state's segregation
law constitutional?
814
00:53:24,677 --> 00:53:28,180
No, I--I think we ought
to hear this evidence.
815
00:53:28,181 --> 00:53:29,182
Uh, Mr. Marshall,
816
00:53:29,182 --> 00:53:30,683
you may continue
with your witnesses.
817
00:53:35,688 --> 00:53:38,190
I am a social psychologist
818
00:53:38,191 --> 00:53:39,692
and educator.
819
00:53:39,692 --> 00:53:41,694
I have degrees
from Howard University
820
00:53:41,694 --> 00:53:43,696
and Columbia.
821
00:53:43,696 --> 00:53:46,198
Is it true you conducted
scientific measurements
822
00:53:46,199 --> 00:53:48,201
in Clarendon county
823
00:53:48,201 --> 00:53:51,204
to determine the effect
of segregation
824
00:53:51,204 --> 00:53:52,705
on negro schoolchildren?
825
00:53:52,705 --> 00:53:53,706
Yes.
826
00:53:53,706 --> 00:53:55,708
I can't hear the man.
827
00:53:55,708 --> 00:53:57,209
Speak up, Mr. Clark.
828
00:53:57,210 --> 00:54:00,213
Please describe,
Dr. Clark,
829
00:54:00,213 --> 00:54:02,715
the results of
your investigation.
830
00:54:02,715 --> 00:54:05,217
when negro children
were asked
831
00:54:05,218 --> 00:54:07,720
to choose between white dolls
832
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:09,221
and the brown dolls
833
00:54:09,222 --> 00:54:12,225
and to say which doll
was the nice doll,
834
00:54:12,225 --> 00:54:16,729
65% said the white doll
was the nice doll.
835
00:54:16,729 --> 00:54:18,230
Every one of our tests
836
00:54:18,231 --> 00:54:20,733
shows
an unmistakable preference
837
00:54:20,733 --> 00:54:21,734
for the white doll
838
00:54:21,734 --> 00:54:24,737
and a rejection
of the brown doll.
839
00:54:24,737 --> 00:54:27,740
These children
in Clarendon county,
840
00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:28,741
like other human beings
841
00:54:29,242 --> 00:54:31,744
who have been subjected
to an obviously inferior status,
842
00:54:31,744 --> 00:54:33,746
have been irreparably harmed.
843
00:54:33,746 --> 00:54:35,247
The result is a confusion
844
00:54:35,248 --> 00:54:39,252
in the child's concept
of his own self-esteem.
845
00:54:39,252 --> 00:54:41,754
This leads to a desire
846
00:54:42,255 --> 00:54:44,257
to resolve
this basic conflict
847
00:54:44,257 --> 00:54:45,258
by withdrawing.
848
00:54:45,258 --> 00:54:48,261
Do you believe this
policy of segregation
849
00:54:48,261 --> 00:54:51,764
has any effect
on the white children?
850
00:54:51,764 --> 00:54:53,265
Yes.
851
00:54:53,266 --> 00:54:57,270
It causes moral confusion.
852
00:54:57,270 --> 00:55:00,273
The child who is part
of the segregating group
853
00:55:00,273 --> 00:55:01,774
sees the same people
854
00:55:01,774 --> 00:55:04,777
who teach him democracy,
brotherhood,
855
00:55:04,777 --> 00:55:06,278
love of his fellow man
856
00:55:06,279 --> 00:55:10,783
also teach him to segregate
and discriminate.
857
00:55:11,784 --> 00:55:13,786
Your witness, Mr. Tulley.
858
00:55:23,296 --> 00:55:24,297
Dr. Clark,
859
00:55:24,297 --> 00:55:26,299
how many white children
were in your classroom
860
00:55:26,299 --> 00:55:28,801
when you went to school?
861
00:55:28,801 --> 00:55:30,302
None.
862
00:55:32,305 --> 00:55:34,307
Has anyone
ever described you
863
00:55:34,307 --> 00:55:36,309
as inferior?
864
00:55:39,812 --> 00:55:41,313
No more questions.
865
00:55:45,818 --> 00:55:48,320
Legal segregation
of education
866
00:55:48,321 --> 00:55:50,323
is the single
strongest factor
867
00:55:50,323 --> 00:55:52,325
in causing harmful effects
868
00:55:52,325 --> 00:55:55,828
on the physical, emotional,
and the financial status
869
00:55:55,828 --> 00:55:57,830
of the negro child.
870
00:55:57,830 --> 00:56:00,833
How does this happen,
Dr. Critch?
871
00:56:00,833 --> 00:56:03,335
The state
harms an individual
872
00:56:03,336 --> 00:56:04,837
when it sets him apart
873
00:56:04,837 --> 00:56:07,339
because of the color
of his skin.
874
00:56:07,340 --> 00:56:10,343
Legal segregation
causes the negro
875
00:56:10,343 --> 00:56:12,345
to feel
that he is different
876
00:56:12,345 --> 00:56:14,847
and inferior
to the white man.
877
00:56:14,847 --> 00:56:16,348
Your testimony
is that
878
00:56:16,349 --> 00:56:18,351
it can cause
a false feeling
879
00:56:18,851 --> 00:56:19,852
of inferiority.
880
00:56:19,852 --> 00:56:21,854
The sad thing is
that the white man
881
00:56:21,854 --> 00:56:24,356
has reason
for his prejudice.
882
00:56:24,357 --> 00:56:26,359
Our studies have shown
883
00:56:26,359 --> 00:56:29,862
that the negro is inferior
to the white man.
884
00:56:29,862 --> 00:56:30,862
We have seen--
885
00:56:30,862 --> 00:56:32,363
Doctor,
886
00:56:32,364 --> 00:56:33,865
are you saying
887
00:56:33,865 --> 00:56:36,868
uh, there are
biological differences
888
00:56:36,868 --> 00:56:39,871
between negro people
and white people?
889
00:56:40,372 --> 00:56:41,373
No, sir.
890
00:56:41,373 --> 00:56:43,875
I know of no psychologist
who would maintain
891
00:56:43,875 --> 00:56:47,378
that there is a fundamental
biological difference.
892
00:56:47,379 --> 00:56:48,880
What I am saying
893
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,383
is that the negro
can become inferior
894
00:56:52,384 --> 00:56:55,887
because of the practices
of segregation
895
00:56:55,887 --> 00:56:57,889
and their consequences.
896
00:56:57,889 --> 00:56:59,390
Are you saying
897
00:56:59,391 --> 00:57:03,395
that segregation can
cause permanent damage
898
00:57:03,895 --> 00:57:05,897
to the individual?
899
00:57:05,897 --> 00:57:07,398
I am, sir.
900
00:57:07,899 --> 00:57:10,401
I have
no further questions.
901
00:57:14,906 --> 00:57:17,408
Professor Critch...
902
00:57:17,409 --> 00:57:18,410
are you a native
of the state
903
00:57:18,410 --> 00:57:19,411
of South Carolina?
904
00:57:19,411 --> 00:57:20,412
No, sir.
905
00:57:20,412 --> 00:57:21,913
You ever live
in one of the states
906
00:57:21,913 --> 00:57:23,414
that has
legal segregation?
907
00:57:23,415 --> 00:57:24,416
No, sir.
908
00:57:26,918 --> 00:57:29,921
Has your legal name
always been Critch?
909
00:57:29,921 --> 00:57:31,422
No, sir.
910
00:57:31,423 --> 00:57:33,425
And what was your name
originally, sir?
911
00:57:33,925 --> 00:57:36,928
Critevski.
912
00:57:37,929 --> 00:57:39,430
Were you born in
the United States
913
00:57:39,431 --> 00:57:40,432
of America?
914
00:57:40,432 --> 00:57:42,434
No, sir.
915
00:57:42,434 --> 00:57:43,935
Where, in fact,
were you born?
916
00:57:44,436 --> 00:57:46,438
I was born in Poland.
917
00:57:47,939 --> 00:57:51,075
No further questions.
918
00:57:54,946 --> 00:57:56,948
Mr. Crowe, would you
describe the position
919
00:57:56,948 --> 00:57:58,950
to which governor Byrnes
recently appointed you?
920
00:57:58,950 --> 00:58:00,451
I am director
921
00:58:00,452 --> 00:58:02,454
of the South Carolina state
922
00:58:02,454 --> 00:58:03,955
educational
finance commission.
923
00:58:03,955 --> 00:58:04,956
Your responsibility?
924
00:58:04,956 --> 00:58:06,457
I'm in charge
of the new program
925
00:58:06,458 --> 00:58:08,960
to make colored schools
equal to white schools.
926
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,462
We expect an appropriation
of $75 million.
927
00:58:11,463 --> 00:58:12,964
And what have
you got
928
00:58:12,964 --> 00:58:14,465
for the schools
in Clarendon county?
929
00:58:14,466 --> 00:58:17,469
Sir, we've allocated
$500,000
930
00:58:17,469 --> 00:58:18,970
to Clarendon county
alone.
931
00:58:19,471 --> 00:58:19,971
Mr. Crowe,
932
00:58:20,472 --> 00:58:21,473
when will these
new facilities
933
00:58:21,973 --> 00:58:23,474
be ready
for the children?
934
00:58:23,475 --> 00:58:24,976
We hope some
will be ready
935
00:58:24,976 --> 00:58:25,977
by the beginning
936
00:58:25,977 --> 00:58:27,478
of the next
school year.
937
00:58:27,479 --> 00:58:28,480
Your honor...
938
00:58:30,982 --> 00:58:31,983
the 14th amendment
939
00:58:31,983 --> 00:58:34,986
to the constitution
of the United States,
940
00:58:34,986 --> 00:58:36,988
an amendment
ratified in 1868
941
00:58:36,988 --> 00:58:39,991
by all the states,
including South Carolina,
942
00:58:39,991 --> 00:58:42,493
guarantees
rights in the present,
943
00:58:42,494 --> 00:58:44,996
not at some time
in the future.
944
00:58:44,996 --> 00:58:46,497
The court's familiar
945
00:58:46,498 --> 00:58:47,999
with the constitution,
Mr. Marshall.
946
00:58:47,999 --> 00:58:50,501
Mr. Crowe is talking
about remedies
947
00:58:50,502 --> 00:58:52,504
that are
in the future.
948
00:58:52,504 --> 00:58:54,506
The court's action
may depend
949
00:58:54,506 --> 00:58:57,509
on whether the state is
making good faith efforts
950
00:58:57,509 --> 00:59:00,011
to improve the condition
of these people.
951
00:59:00,011 --> 00:59:01,078
Go on, Mr. Tulley.
952
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:04,082
do you think
it would be a mistake
953
00:59:04,082 --> 00:59:06,584
to force children to attend
racially mixed schools?
954
00:59:06,584 --> 00:59:07,585
I don't think
955
00:59:07,585 --> 00:59:10,087
you could keep
things peaceful.
956
00:59:10,088 --> 00:59:11,589
So you believe that
957
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:14,592
mixing the races would
make the situation worse.
958
00:59:14,592 --> 00:59:17,595
In my opinion,
it would cause chaos,
959
00:59:17,595 --> 00:59:20,598
lead to the elimination
of public schools
960
00:59:20,598 --> 00:59:21,599
in most, if not all,
961
00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:24,602
the counties
of the state.
962
00:59:24,602 --> 00:59:25,603
Thank you.
963
00:59:29,607 --> 00:59:32,610
Mr. Crowe, Mr. Crowe...
964
00:59:34,112 --> 00:59:36,114
this...
965
00:59:36,114 --> 00:59:37,615
new...
966
00:59:37,615 --> 00:59:40,117
state commission
967
00:59:40,118 --> 00:59:41,119
of yours...
968
00:59:43,621 --> 00:59:46,123
are there any negroes
on it?
969
00:59:46,124 --> 00:59:48,126
No.
970
00:59:50,628 --> 00:59:52,630
Are there any negroes
971
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:55,132
employed
by your commission?
972
00:59:55,133 --> 00:59:56,134
No, sir.
973
00:59:57,635 --> 01:00:00,638
Mr. Crowe, how much
study have you done
974
01:00:00,638 --> 01:00:03,140
on the question
of racial tension?
975
01:00:03,141 --> 01:00:07,145
I have observed conditions
and people in South Carolina
976
01:00:07,645 --> 01:00:08,646
all my life,
977
01:00:09,147 --> 01:00:12,150
but I haven't studied
racial tensions as such.
978
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:15,153
Then how do you
draw your conclusions
979
01:00:15,153 --> 01:00:17,655
as to what would happen
if the schools are mixed?
980
01:00:18,156 --> 01:00:19,657
Because I know
what people say.
981
01:00:20,158 --> 01:00:24,662
You are speaking
of white people.
982
01:00:24,662 --> 01:00:25,663
Mainly.
983
01:00:28,666 --> 01:00:30,668
You say
984
01:00:30,668 --> 01:00:33,170
the public schools
will be eliminated
985
01:00:33,171 --> 01:00:34,672
if integration
were ordered.
986
01:00:34,672 --> 01:00:36,173
They would be abandoned.
987
01:00:36,174 --> 01:00:38,176
You believe
that white people
988
01:00:38,676 --> 01:00:40,177
would abandon
their schools
989
01:00:40,178 --> 01:00:41,679
if forced
to integrate?
990
01:00:41,679 --> 01:00:43,180
Yes.
991
01:00:43,181 --> 01:00:45,683
You think
white people
992
01:00:45,683 --> 01:00:47,685
would deprive
their own children
993
01:00:47,685 --> 01:00:49,186
of an education.
994
01:00:49,187 --> 01:00:51,189
I didn't say
they'd do that.
995
01:00:51,689 --> 01:00:56,193
You said they would
abandon the schools.
996
01:00:56,194 --> 01:00:57,695
Maybe
I misunderstood you.
997
01:00:57,695 --> 01:00:58,695
I don't think
998
01:00:58,695 --> 01:01:00,697
the legislature
would continue
999
01:01:00,697 --> 01:01:03,199
to appropriate money
for public schools
1000
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:04,701
if segregation
is eliminated.
1001
01:01:04,701 --> 01:01:08,705
Do you think
you are qualified to testify
1002
01:01:08,705 --> 01:01:11,207
as to what the legislature
of South Carolina will do
1003
01:01:11,208 --> 01:01:12,209
in the future?
1004
01:01:12,209 --> 01:01:15,212
I know
what people say.
1005
01:01:15,212 --> 01:01:18,215
You know there has been
peaceful integration
1006
01:01:18,215 --> 01:01:19,716
in certain
graduate schools
1007
01:01:19,716 --> 01:01:21,718
elsewhere
in the deep south.
1008
01:01:21,718 --> 01:01:23,219
That's
a different matter.
1009
01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:24,721
Those were older people,
1010
01:01:24,721 --> 01:01:26,222
and just a very few,
I might add.
1011
01:01:26,723 --> 01:01:31,227
Indiana has outlawed
segregation entirely.
1012
01:01:31,228 --> 01:01:34,731
The ratio between the races
is very different in Indiana.
1013
01:01:34,731 --> 01:01:37,734
Suppose the ratio here
1014
01:01:37,734 --> 01:01:41,738
was 95% white
and 5% negro.
1015
01:01:41,738 --> 01:01:44,240
Would that cause you
to change your opinion?
1016
01:01:45,242 --> 01:01:47,244
It would not.
1017
01:01:47,244 --> 01:01:49,246
Then
the ratio of negroes
1018
01:01:49,246 --> 01:01:51,248
has nothing
to do with it.
1019
01:01:51,248 --> 01:01:54,251
Your opinion
is based on the fact
1020
01:01:54,251 --> 01:01:57,254
that you have
all your life believed
1021
01:01:57,254 --> 01:01:58,755
in the segregation
of the races.
1022
01:01:59,256 --> 01:02:02,759
That is the real basis
of your opinion,
1023
01:02:02,759 --> 01:02:04,761
isn't it?
1024
01:02:04,761 --> 01:02:06,262
That wouldn't be all.
1025
01:02:06,263 --> 01:02:08,765
Would that
be part of it?
1026
01:02:10,767 --> 01:02:13,269
I suppose that
would be part of it.
1027
01:02:13,270 --> 01:02:16,273
Thank you, sir,
Mr. Crowe.
1028
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:33,173
Mr. Tulley, you may make
your final argument.
1029
01:02:35,175 --> 01:02:36,676
Your honors will remember
1030
01:02:36,677 --> 01:02:38,679
that the very same congress
1031
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:41,682
that passed
the 14th amendment in 1868
1032
01:02:41,682 --> 01:02:43,684
also passed the law
1033
01:02:43,684 --> 01:02:44,685
that set up
segregated schools
1034
01:02:44,685 --> 01:02:47,688
in Washington, D.C.
1035
01:02:47,688 --> 01:02:48,689
Now, since then,
1036
01:02:48,689 --> 01:02:51,692
17 state legislatures
have passed laws
1037
01:02:51,692 --> 01:02:53,694
requiring segregation
in public schools.
1038
01:02:53,694 --> 01:02:56,697
Now, this practice
of separate but equal
1039
01:02:56,697 --> 01:02:58,198
has been repeatedly upheld
1040
01:02:58,198 --> 01:03:01,201
by the supreme court
of the United States,
1041
01:03:01,201 --> 01:03:04,204
most notably in
a unanimous decision in 1927
1042
01:03:04,204 --> 01:03:06,706
by a court which included
1043
01:03:06,707 --> 01:03:08,709
former president
William Howard Taft
1044
01:03:08,709 --> 01:03:10,210
as the chief justice
1045
01:03:10,210 --> 01:03:12,212
and such distinguished
associates
1046
01:03:12,212 --> 01:03:16,216
as Louis Brandeis
and Oliver Wendell Holmes.
1047
01:03:16,216 --> 01:03:18,718
It cannot
be persuasively argued
1048
01:03:18,719 --> 01:03:22,222
that these great
american jurists,
1049
01:03:22,222 --> 01:03:24,724
the Congress of
the United States,
1050
01:03:24,725 --> 01:03:26,727
and the 17
state legislatures
1051
01:03:26,727 --> 01:03:29,730
were acting in ignorance
of the constitution
1052
01:03:29,730 --> 01:03:31,732
or knowingly
defying its meaning
1053
01:03:31,732 --> 01:03:33,233
over so long a period.
1054
01:03:33,233 --> 01:03:36,736
Segregation
is legal in education,
1055
01:03:37,237 --> 01:03:39,739
so long as it's equal.
1056
01:03:39,740 --> 01:03:41,241
Mr. Tulley,
you have come here
1057
01:03:41,742 --> 01:03:42,242
and admitted
1058
01:03:42,743 --> 01:03:43,744
the facilities
are not equal.
1059
01:03:44,244 --> 01:03:46,246
Now the law does
call for equality,
1060
01:03:46,246 --> 01:03:47,247
does it not?
1061
01:03:47,748 --> 01:03:50,250
Isn't the surest way
to achieve equality
1062
01:03:50,751 --> 01:03:52,753
to admit
the colored children
1063
01:03:53,253 --> 01:03:54,754
to the superior
white schools?
1064
01:03:55,255 --> 01:03:56,256
No, sir.
1065
01:03:56,256 --> 01:03:58,758
The problems of race,
if your honor pleases,
1066
01:03:59,259 --> 01:04:00,760
will not be
solved by force,
1067
01:04:00,761 --> 01:04:02,763
but rather
by the slow process
1068
01:04:02,763 --> 01:04:06,266
of community experience
and mutual good will,
1069
01:04:06,266 --> 01:04:09,769
and any ruling by this court
must take into account the fact
1070
01:04:09,770 --> 01:04:13,273
that school facilities
cannot be built overnight.
1071
01:04:14,775 --> 01:04:17,778
All we're asking is time.
1072
01:04:25,786 --> 01:04:29,790
There is no factual dispute
before this court.
1073
01:04:29,790 --> 01:04:34,294
Negro schools are conceded
to be unequal.
1074
01:04:34,294 --> 01:04:37,297
What is at issue
is the law.
1075
01:04:37,297 --> 01:04:38,798
Yes,
1076
01:04:38,799 --> 01:04:42,803
separate but equal
has been the law of the land
1077
01:04:42,803 --> 01:04:44,304
for many years,
1078
01:04:44,304 --> 01:04:47,307
but the supreme court
has ended segregation
1079
01:04:47,307 --> 01:04:49,309
in southern graduate schools
1080
01:04:49,309 --> 01:04:54,814
without any
negative consequences.
1081
01:04:56,316 --> 01:05:01,821
This is progressive
development of the law.
1082
01:05:01,822 --> 01:05:03,323
in South Carolina,
1083
01:05:03,323 --> 01:05:06,326
all the state officials
are white.
1084
01:05:06,326 --> 01:05:12,699
All the school officials
are white.
1085
01:05:12,699 --> 01:05:17,704
This is not
just segregation.
1086
01:05:17,704 --> 01:05:21,708
This is exclusion...
1087
01:05:21,708 --> 01:05:26,712
from the group
that runs everything.
1088
01:05:29,715 --> 01:05:33,719
The negro child
is made to go
1089
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:36,221
to an inferior school.
1090
01:05:38,724 --> 01:05:42,227
He is branded
in his own mind
1091
01:05:42,228 --> 01:05:44,230
as inferior,
1092
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:47,733
which sets up
in his mind
1093
01:05:47,733 --> 01:05:50,235
a roadblock
that prevents him
1094
01:05:50,236 --> 01:05:54,240
from ever feeling
he is equal.
1095
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:59,745
you can teach such a child
citizenship.
1096
01:05:59,745 --> 01:06:04,249
You can teach such a child
the constitution.
1097
01:06:05,251 --> 01:06:12,258
but he knows that for him,
it isn't true.
1098
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,763
Your Honor,
1099
01:06:17,763 --> 01:06:19,264
we have shown
1100
01:06:19,265 --> 01:06:22,268
that lasting damage is done
the negro children
1101
01:06:22,268 --> 01:06:24,270
every day
that Clarendon county
1102
01:06:24,270 --> 01:06:28,274
operates its school system
in violation of the law.
1103
01:06:29,775 --> 01:06:31,777
The defense...
1104
01:06:31,777 --> 01:06:34,780
asks for time...
1105
01:06:36,282 --> 01:06:44,790
time for the slow process
of community experience.
1106
01:06:44,790 --> 01:06:47,793
I know of no statute
1107
01:06:47,793 --> 01:06:49,795
that allows anyone
to walk into court
1108
01:06:49,795 --> 01:06:51,797
and ask for time
1109
01:06:51,797 --> 01:06:56,301
to stop doing something
which is unlawful.
1110
01:06:59,305 --> 01:07:01,807
If the negro children
of Clarendon county
1111
01:07:01,807 --> 01:07:06,311
are entitled to any rights
as american citizens,
1112
01:07:06,812 --> 01:07:11,817
they are entitled
to those rights now,
1113
01:07:11,817 --> 01:07:16,321
not at some time
in the future.
1114
01:07:16,322 --> 01:07:22,828
Now is the time
for the court to act.
1115
01:07:33,839 --> 01:07:35,340
God bless you,
Mr. Marshall.
1116
01:07:35,341 --> 01:07:36,842
Thank you, sir.
1117
01:08:06,255 --> 01:08:07,756
Have you decided?
1118
01:08:09,758 --> 01:08:11,259
Just a second.
1119
01:08:11,260 --> 01:08:15,264
I mean...
about the school case.
1120
01:08:17,766 --> 01:08:19,768
Well, I've decided
one thing.
1121
01:08:21,270 --> 01:08:23,272
Everybody around here
does a lot of talking
1122
01:08:23,272 --> 01:08:25,774
about the negro problem,
1123
01:08:25,774 --> 01:08:29,277
but what we have
is a white problem.
1124
01:08:32,781 --> 01:08:34,783
How will the court rule?
1125
01:08:34,783 --> 01:08:36,284
Judge Parker's the one
1126
01:08:36,285 --> 01:08:37,786
you're gonna have
to keep your eye on.
1127
01:08:39,788 --> 01:08:40,789
He's a little cagey--
1128
01:08:41,290 --> 01:08:41,790
Oh!
1129
01:09:07,816 --> 01:09:09,567
Stand back.
1130
01:09:09,568 --> 01:09:12,571
Stay on the north side
of fleeting street.
1131
01:09:12,688 --> 01:09:16,692
You colored people,
stay on the sidewalk.
1132
01:09:17,192 --> 01:09:18,193
"When separate schools
are maintained
1133
01:09:18,193 --> 01:09:19,694
"for negroes and whites,
1134
01:09:19,695 --> 01:09:21,697
"educational facilities
and opportunities
1135
01:09:21,697 --> 01:09:23,198
"must be equal.
1136
01:09:23,198 --> 01:09:24,699
"The defendants
have admitted
1137
01:09:24,700 --> 01:09:26,702
"that such facilities
for colored pupils
1138
01:09:26,702 --> 01:09:28,203
"in school district
number 22
1139
01:09:28,203 --> 01:09:29,704
"are not equal.
1140
01:09:29,705 --> 01:09:32,457
"The plaintiffs are entitled
to a mandatory injunction
1141
01:09:32,458 --> 01:09:33,959
"requiring equal facilities
1142
01:09:33,959 --> 01:09:35,961
"be afforded
the colored children.
1143
01:09:35,961 --> 01:09:37,462
"The plaintiffs
also ask that we order
1144
01:09:37,463 --> 01:09:39,965
"that negroes be admitted
to white schools.
1145
01:09:39,965 --> 01:09:42,467
"The court believes that
1146
01:09:42,468 --> 01:09:45,971
"one of the great virtues
of our constitutional system
1147
01:09:45,971 --> 01:09:47,472
"is that it leaves
to the states
1148
01:09:47,473 --> 01:09:49,975
"the solution
of local problems.
1149
01:09:49,975 --> 01:09:52,477
"It is well settled
by the supreme court
1150
01:09:52,478 --> 01:09:53,978
"that there is no denial
1151
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:55,480
"of equal protection
of the laws
1152
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:56,981
"in segregating children
1153
01:09:56,981 --> 01:10:00,484
"if the children are given
equal facilities.
1154
01:10:00,485 --> 01:10:03,488
"Therefore, an injunction
to abolish segregation
1155
01:10:03,988 --> 01:10:05,990
is denied."
1156
01:10:10,995 --> 01:10:12,496
Judge Waring?
1157
01:10:14,499 --> 01:10:18,503
I had hoped that this court
would take the view
1158
01:10:18,503 --> 01:10:20,505
that there must be
no suppression
1159
01:10:20,505 --> 01:10:22,507
of the rights
of any of our citizens
1160
01:10:22,507 --> 01:10:24,008
because of their skins,
1161
01:10:24,008 --> 01:10:27,011
and I had hoped
that this court
1162
01:10:27,011 --> 01:10:29,513
would have made
a clear-cut declaration
1163
01:10:29,514 --> 01:10:31,516
that the state
of South Carolina
1164
01:10:31,516 --> 01:10:33,017
should follow the meaning
1165
01:10:33,017 --> 01:10:36,020
of the constitution
of the United States
1166
01:10:36,020 --> 01:10:40,024
and not deny
equal protection.
1167
01:10:40,024 --> 01:10:43,527
But since the majority of
this court feels otherwise...
1168
01:10:45,530 --> 01:10:46,531
I dissent.
1169
01:10:47,031 --> 01:10:48,532
The plaintiffs
have shown courage
1170
01:10:49,033 --> 01:10:50,034
in presenting this case
1171
01:10:50,034 --> 01:10:53,037
in the face
of the age-old pattern
1172
01:10:53,037 --> 01:10:55,039
of the way of life
practiced in South Carolina
1173
01:10:55,039 --> 01:10:57,041
since and as a result
1174
01:10:57,041 --> 01:11:00,044
of the institution
of human slavery.
1175
01:11:02,046 --> 01:11:05,049
It has been shown here
1176
01:11:05,049 --> 01:11:07,551
that the humiliation
to young children
1177
01:11:07,552 --> 01:11:10,555
of being set aside
as unfit to associate
1178
01:11:10,555 --> 01:11:12,557
with others
of different color
1179
01:11:12,557 --> 01:11:15,560
has had an evil
and warping effect
1180
01:11:16,060 --> 01:11:18,562
which will remain
with them forever.
1181
01:11:18,563 --> 01:11:20,565
Despite the ruling
1182
01:11:20,565 --> 01:11:23,067
of the majority
of this court,
1183
01:11:23,067 --> 01:11:27,071
segregation can never
produce equality.
1184
01:11:27,071 --> 01:11:30,574
It is an evil...
1185
01:11:30,575 --> 01:11:33,077
that must be eradicated.
1186
01:11:38,583 --> 01:11:40,084
Thank you,
Mr. Marshall.
1187
01:11:43,588 --> 01:11:45,089
Thank you,
Mr. Carter.
1188
01:11:45,089 --> 01:11:46,090
Good-bye, Harry.
1189
01:11:46,090 --> 01:11:47,091
Bye, sir.
1190
01:11:52,096 --> 01:11:54,598
I want to say
good-bye to you.
1191
01:11:54,599 --> 01:11:56,601
I want to say
good-bye to you.
1192
01:11:56,601 --> 01:11:57,602
And I wanna say
1193
01:11:57,602 --> 01:11:59,103
if you ever
show your black ass
1194
01:11:59,103 --> 01:12:02,106
in Clarendon county again,
you're a dead man.
1195
01:12:05,993 --> 01:12:07,494
Stay on the sidewalk.
1196
01:12:11,499 --> 01:12:12,500
Keep him, lord.
1197
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,002
Stay behind the barricade.
1198
01:12:26,013 --> 01:12:26,763
You know, J.A.,
1199
01:12:26,764 --> 01:12:28,766
sometimes
I get very weary
1200
01:12:28,766 --> 01:12:31,769
trying to save
the white man's soul.
1201
01:12:32,270 --> 01:12:35,273
Thurgood,
that court just told
1202
01:12:35,273 --> 01:12:37,775
the people of
the United States of America
1203
01:12:38,276 --> 01:12:40,278
that segregation
is legal.
1204
01:12:40,278 --> 01:12:43,281
We got a whole damn
mountain to climb.
1205
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,302
Did you see Dr. Levitt?
1206
01:13:05,303 --> 01:13:06,304
Yes.
1207
01:13:06,304 --> 01:13:07,305
Good.
1208
01:13:07,305 --> 01:13:08,806
Did he get you
sorted out?
1209
01:13:11,309 --> 01:13:13,311
It's a cancer.
1210
01:13:15,313 --> 01:13:17,315
They have treatment.
1211
01:13:17,315 --> 01:13:18,816
He's very good.
1212
01:13:24,322 --> 01:13:26,324
I'll stay home with you.
1213
01:13:26,324 --> 01:13:28,826
Mm-mmm.
1214
01:13:28,826 --> 01:13:30,828
Home with you
is where I belong.
1215
01:13:30,828 --> 01:13:32,329
No.
1216
01:13:32,330 --> 01:13:35,333
Carter, Greenberg,
and hill, they can carry on.
1217
01:13:35,333 --> 01:13:36,834
Thurgood,
I've thought about this.
1218
01:13:40,338 --> 01:13:43,341
Since our first days
at Harvard Law School,
1219
01:13:43,341 --> 01:13:44,842
when they wouldn't
even let you apply
1220
01:13:44,842 --> 01:13:46,844
to the University
of Maryland,
1221
01:13:46,844 --> 01:13:50,848
one thing has been
1222
01:13:50,848 --> 01:13:52,850
at the center
of our lives.
1223
01:13:52,850 --> 01:13:57,855
I want you to carry on
with your work,
1224
01:13:57,855 --> 01:13:59,356
our work.
1225
01:14:01,359 --> 01:14:04,862
I do not want
to discuss it.
1226
01:14:17,875 --> 01:14:19,877
# You're the sweetest guy
that I've seen... #
1227
01:14:19,877 --> 01:14:21,377
Get everybody in here.
1228
01:14:21,378 --> 01:14:23,880
The damn winos
broke in again
1229
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:25,381
and stole
all our typewriters.
1230
01:14:25,382 --> 01:14:27,884
And we didn't get
any paychecks again.
1231
01:14:27,884 --> 01:14:30,887
I wish they would
steal the radio.
1232
01:14:30,887 --> 01:14:33,890
Gladys Hampton,
the Detroit advocate--
1233
01:14:33,890 --> 01:14:36,392
she wants to know what
you're going to say
1234
01:14:36,393 --> 01:14:38,895
to the negro educators
tomorrow night.
1235
01:14:38,895 --> 01:14:40,396
You see her editorial?
1236
01:14:40,397 --> 01:14:41,398
No.
1237
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:45,518
"This defeat
should give pause
1238
01:14:46,019 --> 01:14:47,520
"to the NAACP strategists,
1239
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:48,521
"for it only strengthens
1240
01:14:48,521 --> 01:14:50,523
"the Plessy vs. Ferguson
doctrine
1241
01:14:50,523 --> 01:14:52,024
"of separate but equal.
1242
01:14:52,025 --> 01:14:53,526
"The welfare
of the negro people
1243
01:14:53,526 --> 01:14:55,027
"should not be
the exclusive province
1244
01:14:55,028 --> 01:14:57,030
of a handful of lawyers."
1245
01:14:57,030 --> 01:14:58,031
Greenberg!
1246
01:14:59,532 --> 01:15:02,034
You talk to this
newspaper woman.
1247
01:15:02,035 --> 01:15:03,036
I can't.
1248
01:15:03,036 --> 01:15:05,538
I got a woman on
the phone in Norfolk.
1249
01:15:05,538 --> 01:15:06,539
The police have had
her boy locked up
1250
01:15:06,539 --> 01:15:07,540
for six months
1251
01:15:07,540 --> 01:15:10,042
for stealing
a bag of peanuts.
1252
01:15:10,043 --> 01:15:12,545
Get everybody
in the back room.
1253
01:15:15,048 --> 01:15:18,051
Bob, where are we
1254
01:15:18,051 --> 01:15:19,552
on the school case
in Topeka?
1255
01:15:19,552 --> 01:15:22,938
We take the brown case
to court next week.
1256
01:15:22,939 --> 01:15:24,941
We getting
anywhere in Virginia?
1257
01:15:24,941 --> 01:15:28,444
If driving 300 miles
every week on bumpy roads
1258
01:15:28,445 --> 01:15:29,946
is getting somewhere.
1259
01:15:29,946 --> 01:15:32,448
I was in Prince Edward
yesterday.
1260
01:15:32,449 --> 01:15:34,451
Those kids are as brave
as I've seen,
1261
01:15:34,451 --> 01:15:35,452
but you know how tough
1262
01:15:35,452 --> 01:15:37,954
Virginia's going to be,
Thurgood.
1263
01:15:37,954 --> 01:15:39,455
What about Delaware,
Jack?
1264
01:15:39,456 --> 01:15:41,458
Got superior
expert witnesses.
1265
01:15:41,458 --> 01:15:43,460
Judge Sykes is
tough but he's fair.
1266
01:15:43,460 --> 01:15:44,327
And Washington, D.C.?
1267
01:15:44,327 --> 01:15:47,330
Jim Nabrick
is going his own way.
1268
01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:48,831
He's challenging
segregation head-on.
1269
01:15:48,832 --> 01:15:50,333
No reference at all
1270
01:15:50,333 --> 01:15:52,335
to making
separate schools equal.
1271
01:15:52,335 --> 01:15:53,836
Bob, I want you
to prepare
1272
01:15:54,337 --> 01:15:56,339
an appeal
on the Clarendon case.
1273
01:15:56,339 --> 01:15:57,840
I want it ready
just in case we decide
1274
01:15:57,841 --> 01:15:58,842
to go
to the supreme court.
1275
01:15:58,842 --> 01:15:59,843
In case?
1276
01:15:59,843 --> 01:16:02,846
Thurgood,
we have got to go.
1277
01:16:02,846 --> 01:16:06,850
Look, we all know
what's right and what's just.
1278
01:16:06,850 --> 01:16:08,852
I'm worried
about the timing.
1279
01:16:08,852 --> 01:16:11,354
Chief Justice Vinson
and the current lineup
1280
01:16:11,354 --> 01:16:12,355
of justices
on the court
1281
01:16:12,355 --> 01:16:13,356
leave a lot of questions.
1282
01:16:13,857 --> 01:16:15,358
And may I tell you guys
something else?
1283
01:16:15,859 --> 01:16:18,862
We are way out in front
of our constituency.
1284
01:16:21,865 --> 01:16:24,868
We have got to
decide something.
1285
01:16:30,373 --> 01:16:31,374
Jack.
1286
01:16:33,376 --> 01:16:37,380
Were you able to help
that lady in Norfolk?
1287
01:16:37,380 --> 01:16:40,383
Turns out that bag of
peanuts the boy took...
1288
01:16:40,884 --> 01:16:43,386
was one of those
100-pound burlap bags.
1289
01:16:43,887 --> 01:16:46,890
He also stole the truck
the bag was in.
1290
01:16:54,898 --> 01:16:55,899
I have decided to bring
1291
01:16:55,899 --> 01:16:58,902
the mountain
to Muhammad.
1292
01:16:58,902 --> 01:17:01,905
There are many of us
across the country
1293
01:17:01,905 --> 01:17:05,041
who are convinced
you are in error.
1294
01:17:05,041 --> 01:17:08,044
We are very concerned
about the leadership
1295
01:17:08,044 --> 01:17:10,046
of the NAACP.
1296
01:17:10,046 --> 01:17:11,547
Against the advice
of many of us,
1297
01:17:11,548 --> 01:17:15,552
you decided to make
a bare-bones challenge
1298
01:17:15,552 --> 01:17:17,554
to the legality
of segregation
1299
01:17:17,554 --> 01:17:19,055
in South Carolina,
1300
01:17:19,055 --> 01:17:20,056
and you got
a bare-bones answer.
1301
01:17:20,056 --> 01:17:23,559
You went for a home run
and struck out.
1302
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,562
the favorable
supreme court decisions
1303
01:17:25,562 --> 01:17:27,564
in the graduate school
cases
1304
01:17:27,564 --> 01:17:31,067
show us the path
to success.
1305
01:17:31,067 --> 01:17:33,569
By working within
the Plessy decision
1306
01:17:33,570 --> 01:17:36,072
and using
separate but equal,
1307
01:17:36,072 --> 01:17:38,074
we can win cases.
1308
01:17:38,074 --> 01:17:39,575
And with each victory,
1309
01:17:39,576 --> 01:17:41,578
many children's lives
become better.
1310
01:17:41,578 --> 01:17:44,080
Mr. Marshall,
my great fear
1311
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,083
is that you will take
the South Carolina case
1312
01:17:47,083 --> 01:17:48,584
to the supreme court.
1313
01:17:48,585 --> 01:17:52,589
It's one thing to lose
in South Carolina,
1314
01:17:52,589 --> 01:17:55,592
quite another to lose
in the supreme court.
1315
01:17:55,592 --> 01:17:57,093
We should be pursuing
1316
01:17:57,093 --> 01:17:59,595
equality
in public schools,
1317
01:17:59,596 --> 01:18:01,598
a goal within our reach.
1318
01:18:01,598 --> 01:18:04,100
Do you believe
there is such a thing
1319
01:18:04,100 --> 01:18:06,102
as separate equality?
1320
01:18:06,102 --> 01:18:08,604
I am not in favor
of separate anything,
1321
01:18:09,105 --> 01:18:10,606
but I want to win.
1322
01:18:10,607 --> 01:18:13,610
There are those
who believe that if we don't
1323
01:18:13,610 --> 01:18:17,113
challenge the legality
of segregation head-on,
1324
01:18:17,113 --> 01:18:20,116
we will continue
to get the same thing
1325
01:18:20,116 --> 01:18:22,118
we have been getting
all these years--
1326
01:18:22,118 --> 01:18:25,121
separate, but never equal.
1327
01:18:25,121 --> 01:18:28,624
But to do that
is to put at risk
1328
01:18:28,625 --> 01:18:31,127
all of the progress
that we have made.
1329
01:18:32,629 --> 01:18:35,131
Unfortunately,
Miss Hampton,
1330
01:18:35,131 --> 01:18:37,133
there are no easy answers.
1331
01:18:37,133 --> 01:18:39,135
Everything we do...
1332
01:18:39,135 --> 01:18:41,137
involves risk.
1333
01:18:49,761 --> 01:18:51,763
Mr. Davis' office.
good morning.
1334
01:18:53,265 --> 01:18:54,266
Yes.
1335
01:18:57,269 --> 01:18:58,770
I see.
1336
01:18:58,770 --> 01:19:01,272
I'll inquire as to
Mr. Davis' availability.
1337
01:19:01,273 --> 01:19:03,275
Just a moment.
1338
01:19:07,279 --> 01:19:08,780
Uh, Mr. Davis.
1339
01:19:08,780 --> 01:19:10,782
Governor Byrnes'
secretary
1340
01:19:10,782 --> 01:19:11,783
is calling
long distance
1341
01:19:11,783 --> 01:19:13,284
from South Carolina.
1342
01:19:13,785 --> 01:19:14,786
The governor would like
to come to New York
1343
01:19:14,786 --> 01:19:15,787
to meet with you.
1344
01:19:15,787 --> 01:19:17,288
Tell the lady
I would welcome
1345
01:19:17,289 --> 01:19:19,291
seeing my old friend
the governor.
1346
01:19:19,291 --> 01:19:21,293
Oh, and, uh,
suggest to her
1347
01:19:21,293 --> 01:19:23,295
that he escape
the southern summer
1348
01:19:23,295 --> 01:19:25,297
and join me on Long Island
for the weekend.
1349
01:19:25,297 --> 01:19:26,298
Yes, sir.
1350
01:19:50,072 --> 01:19:52,074
Hi there!
1351
01:19:57,079 --> 01:19:58,580
Jimmy.
1352
01:19:58,580 --> 01:20:01,583
I see you've renewed your
acquaintance with Julia.
1353
01:20:01,583 --> 01:20:04,586
Yes, and a handsome
daughter you have, John.
1354
01:20:04,586 --> 01:20:06,588
Your mother
would be proud.
1355
01:20:06,588 --> 01:20:08,590
How about
some iced tea?
1356
01:20:08,590 --> 01:20:11,092
Or perhaps something
a bit stronger?
1357
01:20:11,093 --> 01:20:13,095
Well, iced tea
would be fine.
1358
01:20:13,095 --> 01:20:16,098
When Jimmy and I were
a couple of young boys
1359
01:20:16,098 --> 01:20:17,599
in congress
in Washington,
1360
01:20:17,599 --> 01:20:19,100
his preference
for drinking...
1361
01:20:20,102 --> 01:20:21,603
was a little bolder.
1362
01:20:21,603 --> 01:20:25,106
Well, 30 years
changes a man.
1363
01:20:25,607 --> 01:20:27,108
For the collection, Julia.
1364
01:20:29,611 --> 01:20:32,113
Your father's genius
has made him
1365
01:20:32,114 --> 01:20:35,117
an unpopular figure
in certain high places
1366
01:20:35,117 --> 01:20:36,118
in Washington.
1367
01:20:36,118 --> 01:20:37,619
Thank you, Jimmy.
1368
01:20:37,619 --> 01:20:40,622
Always pleased to be
perceived as a genius.
1369
01:20:40,622 --> 01:20:44,125
"Mr. Chalmers Roberts
says,
1370
01:20:44,126 --> 01:20:45,627
"Seldom has
a courtroom sat
1371
01:20:45,627 --> 01:20:47,629
"in such silent admiration
1372
01:20:47,629 --> 01:20:48,630
for a lawyer at the bar."
1373
01:20:49,131 --> 01:20:50,632
The law...
1374
01:20:50,632 --> 01:20:52,634
the law was on our side.
1375
01:20:52,634 --> 01:20:54,135
You were
a master for it.
1376
01:20:54,136 --> 01:20:56,138
You pinned the government's
ears back.
1377
01:20:56,138 --> 01:20:58,640
I'm still just a country
lawyer at heart,
1378
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:00,141
a skilled technician.
1379
01:21:00,142 --> 01:21:02,144
Lawyers don't
do very much anyway.
1380
01:21:02,144 --> 01:21:03,145
They don't build,
they don't erect,
1381
01:21:03,645 --> 01:21:04,646
they don't
paint anything.
1382
01:21:04,646 --> 01:21:08,149
All they do is lubricate
the wheels of society.
1383
01:21:12,654 --> 01:21:13,655
John...
1384
01:21:14,156 --> 01:21:17,159
I am up here
to ask for your help
1385
01:21:17,159 --> 01:21:20,162
on behalf of the south
you love.
1386
01:21:20,162 --> 01:21:22,164
The Clarendon county
school case
1387
01:21:22,164 --> 01:21:23,665
has become a problem.
1388
01:21:23,665 --> 01:21:25,667
The NAACP seems to be
1389
01:21:25,667 --> 01:21:27,669
keeping you folks
on your toes, huh?
1390
01:21:27,669 --> 01:21:31,172
Well, I'm prepared
to confess to past sins.
1391
01:21:31,173 --> 01:21:34,176
Some of our schools
are a disgrace.
1392
01:21:34,176 --> 01:21:36,178
We're going to spend
$75 million
1393
01:21:36,178 --> 01:21:37,679
to bring those schools
up to snuff.
1394
01:21:37,679 --> 01:21:42,183
We will live up to the equal
in separate but equal.
1395
01:21:42,184 --> 01:21:46,688
But an order
to integrate our schools
1396
01:21:46,688 --> 01:21:48,189
coming down
from Washington
1397
01:21:48,190 --> 01:21:50,192
would cause chaos.
1398
01:21:50,192 --> 01:21:53,195
You can't ask people
to change overnight.
1399
01:21:53,195 --> 01:21:55,197
Feelings run too deep.
1400
01:21:55,197 --> 01:21:58,200
The case may go before
the supreme court.
1401
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:00,702
Well, surely,
the NAACP must know
1402
01:22:00,702 --> 01:22:03,204
that the supreme court
is not likely
1403
01:22:03,205 --> 01:22:05,207
to give them
the decision they want.
1404
01:22:05,207 --> 01:22:07,209
You have to be prepared.
1405
01:22:07,709 --> 01:22:09,711
You've done great
service at the bar
1406
01:22:09,711 --> 01:22:11,212
for your country.
1407
01:22:11,213 --> 01:22:14,216
Your talents may be
required once more.
1408
01:22:14,216 --> 01:22:18,220
Jim, I've argued 138
cases in that court.
1409
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:19,220
This case could be
1410
01:22:19,721 --> 01:22:21,222
more important
than any of the others--
1411
01:22:21,223 --> 01:22:23,725
more important than any case
of our generation.
1412
01:22:23,725 --> 01:22:26,227
It challenges
the right of the states
1413
01:22:26,728 --> 01:22:27,729
to make their own laws.
1414
01:22:27,729 --> 01:22:31,232
John...
1415
01:22:31,233 --> 01:22:35,237
if this case goes
to the supreme court,
1416
01:22:35,237 --> 01:22:38,240
I'm going to need you.
1417
01:23:17,027 --> 01:23:19,029
Oh, my god.
1418
01:23:19,029 --> 01:23:22,532
Fire! You and the children
get out of the house!
1419
01:23:22,533 --> 01:23:24,034
The place is on fire!
1420
01:23:24,034 --> 01:23:25,285
Everybody get out.
1421
01:23:25,286 --> 01:23:27,288
Come on, come on!
Hurry!
1422
01:23:27,288 --> 01:23:29,790
Get out! Come on,
come on, come on!
1423
01:23:31,292 --> 01:23:33,177
Go right to the pump.
1424
01:23:33,177 --> 01:23:34,678
Get a bucket.
1425
01:23:41,685 --> 01:23:44,688
Hurry, Joseph.
Go on, go on!
1426
01:23:44,688 --> 01:23:46,690
Come on, son.
That's right.
1427
01:23:49,693 --> 01:23:51,695
Go ahead! Go ahead!
That's right.
1428
01:23:51,695 --> 01:23:53,196
Run, boy, run!
1429
01:23:57,701 --> 01:24:01,204
Come on, come on!
Run, run!
1430
01:24:07,211 --> 01:24:09,213
Hose down the roof!
1431
01:24:09,713 --> 01:24:11,715
Come on,
we'll help them
1432
01:24:11,715 --> 01:24:12,716
with the hoses.
1433
01:24:12,716 --> 01:24:14,217
Real sorry, reverend.
1434
01:24:14,218 --> 01:24:15,719
But the district line
is here.
1435
01:24:15,719 --> 01:24:17,721
We don't have authority
to cross over it.
1436
01:24:18,222 --> 01:24:19,723
You'll have to get
the Scott's Branch unit
1437
01:24:19,723 --> 01:24:20,724
to come help you.
1438
01:24:20,724 --> 01:24:23,727
I don't care about
the Scott's Branch line!
1439
01:24:23,727 --> 01:24:25,228
My house
is burning down!
1440
01:24:25,229 --> 01:24:27,231
You've got to stop it!
1441
01:24:27,231 --> 01:24:29,233
Let's go, Boyd.
1442
01:25:22,786 --> 01:25:23,787
Hello.
1443
01:25:27,291 --> 01:25:29,293
Wife and children ok?
1444
01:25:32,796 --> 01:25:33,797
Thank you.
1445
01:25:45,809 --> 01:25:47,310
Bastards.
1446
01:26:02,509 --> 01:26:05,512
I'm sorry, ma'am,
but there's no more room.
1447
01:26:05,512 --> 01:26:08,014
I'm expected. I'm
Mr. Marshall's wife.
1448
01:26:08,515 --> 01:26:10,016
There's a great deal
to be said
1449
01:26:10,017 --> 01:26:12,519
for separate
negro schools.
1450
01:26:13,020 --> 01:26:15,522
Is this not better than
making our boys and girls
1451
01:26:15,522 --> 01:26:19,526
like doormats to be
trampled and spit upon
1452
01:26:20,027 --> 01:26:21,528
and called niggers?
1453
01:26:21,662 --> 01:26:23,664
I say it's time
we stop peering
1454
01:26:23,664 --> 01:26:25,666
through white
schoolhouse windows
1455
01:26:26,166 --> 01:26:27,667
like orphans
at christmas eve.
1456
01:26:28,168 --> 01:26:32,172
Let us make our schools
equal and excellent.
1457
01:26:38,178 --> 01:26:39,679
The courts
can be counted on
1458
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:41,682
to give us
equal schools,
1459
01:26:41,682 --> 01:26:43,183
but they cannot
be counted on
1460
01:26:43,183 --> 01:26:45,685
for desegregation.
1461
01:26:45,686 --> 01:26:47,187
We don't know that.
1462
01:26:47,187 --> 01:26:49,689
The only way
to find out
1463
01:26:49,690 --> 01:26:51,692
is to ask
the supreme court.
1464
01:26:51,692 --> 01:26:54,194
Now, what
troubles me is,
1465
01:26:54,194 --> 01:26:56,696
what will they do
when we ask them
1466
01:26:56,697 --> 01:26:59,700
to either repudiate or
reaffirm the plessy decision
1467
01:26:59,700 --> 01:27:01,702
and separate but equal?
1468
01:27:01,702 --> 01:27:05,706
That's what many of us
have been saying all along.
1469
01:27:05,706 --> 01:27:09,710
The NAACP should not
be reaching for glory.
1470
01:27:10,210 --> 01:27:14,214
If Mr. Marshall takes us
to the supreme court
1471
01:27:14,214 --> 01:27:16,216
at the wrong time,
1472
01:27:16,216 --> 01:27:19,219
he is taking us
over a cliff,
1473
01:27:19,219 --> 01:27:21,721
provoking
a negative ruling
1474
01:27:21,722 --> 01:27:24,725
that could last
another generation.
1475
01:27:28,228 --> 01:27:29,729
Wait a minute.
1476
01:27:29,730 --> 01:27:33,734
Let me ask a question.
1477
01:27:33,734 --> 01:27:35,235
Law students,
1478
01:27:35,235 --> 01:27:39,239
how many of you went
to segregated schools?
1479
01:27:39,239 --> 01:27:42,242
Segregated colleges?
1480
01:27:44,744 --> 01:27:46,746
Segregated law schools?
1481
01:27:48,748 --> 01:27:49,749
Here we are,
1482
01:27:50,249 --> 01:27:53,252
citizens of the United
States of America.
1483
01:27:53,252 --> 01:27:57,756
How can we continue to
tolerate a segregated society?
1484
01:27:58,257 --> 01:28:02,261
We must attack
segregation head-on.
1485
01:28:08,768 --> 01:28:11,771
Mr. Marshall, I know
I speak for many of us.
1486
01:28:11,771 --> 01:28:13,773
Let's not risk the setback
1487
01:28:13,773 --> 01:28:15,775
that a negative
supreme court ruling
1488
01:28:15,775 --> 01:28:16,776
would represent.
1489
01:28:16,776 --> 01:28:18,778
Let's push hard
in the lower courts.
1490
01:28:18,778 --> 01:28:20,279
We can win victories
1491
01:28:20,279 --> 01:28:22,781
and gain more credibility
for our cause,
1492
01:28:22,782 --> 01:28:24,283
and we won't
come up empty.
1493
01:28:48,808 --> 01:28:50,309
Can...
1494
01:28:52,812 --> 01:28:58,317
I promise you success?
1495
01:28:59,819 --> 01:29:01,320
Is that the question?
1496
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:04,823
Can I promise you victory?
1497
01:29:07,827 --> 01:29:10,830
The answer is no.
1498
01:29:15,334 --> 01:29:16,335
But...
1499
01:29:17,837 --> 01:29:19,839
do you want...
1500
01:29:19,839 --> 01:29:23,342
to continue dancing
to the tunes
1501
01:29:23,342 --> 01:29:27,346
of the Jimmy Byrneses
of the world?
1502
01:29:27,346 --> 01:29:30,349
Do you wish to wait
1503
01:29:30,349 --> 01:29:32,351
for the great leaders
of the south
1504
01:29:32,351 --> 01:29:34,853
to decide
when it is time
1505
01:29:34,854 --> 01:29:36,355
to grant
democracy's rights
1506
01:29:36,355 --> 01:29:39,358
to your children's
children...
1507
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:46,365
or to their
children's children?
1508
01:29:50,369 --> 01:29:52,871
This...
1509
01:29:52,872 --> 01:29:56,375
is 1952!
1510
01:29:58,377 --> 01:30:02,881
300 years...
1511
01:30:05,384 --> 01:30:07,386
since our forefathers
and mothers
1512
01:30:07,386 --> 01:30:09,888
were brought
to this land...
1513
01:30:10,890 --> 01:30:14,894
as cargo
on slave ships.
1514
01:30:17,897 --> 01:30:22,401
Nearly 100 years...
1515
01:30:22,401 --> 01:30:25,404
since the emancipation
proclamation.
1516
01:30:27,907 --> 01:30:28,908
If...
1517
01:30:30,409 --> 01:30:34,413
there is a problem
about community attitudes
1518
01:30:34,413 --> 01:30:35,914
and getting people
to obey the law,
1519
01:30:35,915 --> 01:30:41,420
let the supreme court
worry about it.
1520
01:30:43,422 --> 01:30:47,426
Let the supreme court
take the blame
1521
01:30:47,426 --> 01:30:50,429
if it dares to say
to the rest of the world,
1522
01:30:50,429 --> 01:30:54,433
"Yes, american
democracy rests
1523
01:30:54,433 --> 01:30:57,936
on a legalized
caste system."
1524
01:30:57,937 --> 01:31:02,441
the NAACP has taken
a decision
1525
01:31:02,441 --> 01:31:07,446
to fight, to strike down
segregation,
1526
01:31:07,446 --> 01:31:10,949
and we will go
1527
01:31:10,950 --> 01:31:14,954
where we said
we will go.
1528
01:31:16,455 --> 01:31:20,959
Let the supreme court
decide.
1529
01:31:51,357 --> 01:31:53,859
You know the difference
between doctors and lawyers?
1530
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:56,862
Doctors can bury
their mistakes.
1531
01:32:14,879 --> 01:32:17,882
Good morning,
father.
1532
01:32:17,882 --> 01:32:19,383
Dearest Julia.
1533
01:32:19,384 --> 01:32:20,385
You're busy.
1534
01:32:20,385 --> 01:32:23,388
Oh, I'm never
too busy for you.
1535
01:32:23,388 --> 01:32:24,889
Now, tell me.
1536
01:32:24,889 --> 01:32:27,892
To what do I owe
this happy surprise?
1537
01:32:30,395 --> 01:32:31,896
I've been thinking.
1538
01:32:32,897 --> 01:32:34,398
Father, I don't think
1539
01:32:34,399 --> 01:32:36,401
that you should take
the segregation case.
1540
01:32:36,401 --> 01:32:37,902
And why is that?
1541
01:32:37,902 --> 01:32:40,905
I think that times
are changing,
1542
01:32:41,406 --> 01:32:43,908
and times will have to
change in the south, too.
1543
01:32:43,908 --> 01:32:46,410
Times are always
changing, Julia.
1544
01:32:46,411 --> 01:32:47,412
If you take the case,
1545
01:32:47,912 --> 01:32:49,413
it will appear that you
are against the negro.
1546
01:32:59,424 --> 01:33:00,925
I treasure this.
1547
01:33:02,927 --> 01:33:06,430
"To John W. Davis
from a grateful people,
1548
01:33:06,431 --> 01:33:07,932
"for his efforts
1549
01:33:07,932 --> 01:33:10,935
"in fighting the cause
of human rights
1550
01:33:10,935 --> 01:33:13,437
"for the negroes
of West Virginia
1551
01:33:13,438 --> 01:33:14,939
and the nation."
1552
01:33:16,441 --> 01:33:18,443
Sudden integration
could turn out to be
1553
01:33:18,943 --> 01:33:20,945
the worst thing
for the cause of the negro.
1554
01:33:20,945 --> 01:33:23,447
Even if true, that is not
a very popular position.
1555
01:33:23,448 --> 01:33:25,450
Oh, nonsense, Julia.
1556
01:33:25,450 --> 01:33:27,452
I've defended
giant corporations.
1557
01:33:27,452 --> 01:33:29,954
And I defended
Eugene V. Debs,
1558
01:33:29,954 --> 01:33:31,455
socialist labor leader,
1559
01:33:31,456 --> 01:33:32,457
charged with
inciting a riot
1560
01:33:32,957 --> 01:33:33,457
at a coal miners'
strike.
1561
01:33:33,958 --> 01:33:34,959
In West Virginia.
1562
01:33:34,959 --> 01:33:37,962
Alger Hiss,
Bob Oppenheimer--
1563
01:33:37,962 --> 01:33:38,963
popular?
1564
01:33:39,464 --> 01:33:41,466
In 50 years,
I've never taken a case
1565
01:33:41,966 --> 01:33:44,468
because it was popular
or unpopular.
1566
01:33:44,469 --> 01:33:46,471
I choose my cases
based on the law.
1567
01:33:46,471 --> 01:33:47,972
The law guides me.
1568
01:33:49,974 --> 01:33:51,475
What kind of law is this?
1569
01:33:51,476 --> 01:33:53,478
The framers
of the constitution
1570
01:33:53,478 --> 01:33:54,979
understood correctly
1571
01:33:54,979 --> 01:33:55,980
that the greatest
protection
1572
01:33:55,980 --> 01:33:57,982
for
human freedom
1573
01:33:57,982 --> 01:33:59,483
was local autonomy--
1574
01:33:59,484 --> 01:34:01,486
the government close
to the people.
1575
01:34:01,486 --> 01:34:02,487
This case challenges
1576
01:34:02,487 --> 01:34:03,988
the right
of the states
1577
01:34:03,988 --> 01:34:06,991
to make and enforce
their own laws.
1578
01:34:06,991 --> 01:34:08,492
If segregation
is to be outlawed,
1579
01:34:08,493 --> 01:34:10,495
it must be done by
an act of congress
1580
01:34:10,495 --> 01:34:13,498
or an amendment
to the constitution.
1581
01:34:13,498 --> 01:34:14,999
I believe it's wrong
1582
01:34:14,999 --> 01:34:16,500
for nine men
in Washington
1583
01:34:16,501 --> 01:34:18,002
to tell a man
in South Carolina
1584
01:34:18,002 --> 01:34:19,003
who his daughter
ought to
1585
01:34:19,003 --> 01:34:20,004
sit next to
in school.
1586
01:34:22,507 --> 01:34:25,009
I'm going to take
this case, Julia,
1587
01:34:25,510 --> 01:34:28,012
and I'm going
to win it.
109878
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