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Auschwitz -
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the most infamous place on earth.
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More than a million people were
murdered here...
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..but, astonishingly, there were
some who survived.
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This film tells
the surprising story
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of what happened to them
after Auschwitz.
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TRANSLATION: I did ask why,
what he had in the dream,
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and then he says,
"It's always the same dream."
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A woman is sitting, an old woman, on
his chest with very long fingernails
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and she's stabbing him
into his chest.
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TRANSLATION: I can't understand how
I'm still alive.
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It's a miracle we're still alive
and that I've got to 80 years old.
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What I tell my children -
not to explode at little things.
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Anger will drive you
out of this world.
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It was very dark...
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..and the smallest act of kindness
appeared like a large spark.
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I choose to remember the sparks -
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that's my motto.
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Hey, you guys. We got Dad a
Father's Day present from everybody.
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From all of us - that's great.
From us too? Uh-huh.
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'What I got out of it is, you get
through things, horrible things.'
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If my father can get through that
and come out as cheerful
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and as wonderful as he is,
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certainly, I can get through
whatever struggle I have.
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I believe in kindness.
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And you got that from Auschwitz?
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Strangely, yes.
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THEY GREET EACH OTHER
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Different people around the world,
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of different religious
and ethnic origins,
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all with different
ways of rebuilding a life.
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But different people who are all
the same in one way -
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they were all touched by Auschwitz.
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A beach resort on the coast
of the Mediterranean...
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..distinguished by the fact that
Adolf Hitler would have liked to see
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virtually every single
one of these people dead.
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Because this is Israel...
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..the place more Holocaust survivors
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moved to after the war
than anywhere else.
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TRANSLATION: They kept on telling us
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that we were getting closer
and closer.
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We just wanted to glimpse
out of the porthole,
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just for a moment.
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And this is Tel Aviv -
it's really Tel Aviv.
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It was a really magical night,
so wonderful, simply a dream.
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When Halina Birenbaum
arrived in Tel Aviv in 1947,
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it was not yet
in an independent country.
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This place was not called Israel
but Palestine.
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00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,160
But the murder of six million Jews
by the Nazis gave a new impetus
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to the call for a Jewish state
to be created in the Middle East.
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The solution of the Jewish problem
cannot be brought about
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unless the Jewish people will be
given the right
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and will be helped
by the United Nations to establish
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Palestine once and for all
as a Jewish homeland.
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In the 1940s, large numbers of Jews
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travelled to
British controlled Palestine.
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Here they joined several hundred
thousand Jews who had already
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settled here in the 1920s and '30s.
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There were strict quotas
on the number of Jews allowed in
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and many were turned away.
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But for those who managed to get
to this land,
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there was the promise
of a new beginning.
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Many immigrants started their new
lives on a kibbutz...
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..a farm,
based on collective ideals.
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Halina Birenbaum was one of them.
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She arrived here in 1947.
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A survivor of Auschwitz,
she came as an 18-year-old,
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without family, full of idealistic
dreams about what a place
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inhabited by fellow Jews
would be like.
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But she found that the settlers
who were already here did not
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welcome her as she'd expected.
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TRANSLATION: They didn't want to
listen to our stories.
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They looked at us with rejection,
disrespect, utter disrespect,
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because we weren't human beings.
We were worth nothing.
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"Why didn't you come earlier
to build?" they said.
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"You came.
"Well, now it's already prepared."
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Incredibly, the fact that Halina
had suffered here in Auschwitz
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worked against her.
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Many existing members of the Kibbutz
hadn't endured the Holocaust -
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they'd settled in the Middle East
before the war.
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And now they made a series
of bitter comments to her.
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"You just followed like sheep.
You didn't defend yourselves.
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"Why didn't you defend yourselves?
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"What happened to you?
You're to blame.
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"You didn't do anything. That
kind of thing wouldn't happen to us.
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"Don't tell us about it -
it's a disgrace.
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"Don't tell the young people,
you'll crush their fighting spirit."
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NEWSREEL: In May of 1948,
a new Jewish state, Israel,
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was born in a bath of blood.
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Thus for the first time since the
Roman legion destroyed Jerusalem
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in the year 70 AD, the Jewish
people have a nation of their own.
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Her flag became a symbol of hope
in a troubled world.
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Halina was now a citizen
of an independent Israel.
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She soon fell in love with another
new Israeli -
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like her, an immigrant from Poland.
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He's got something
good in his heart for me.
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If anything will happen to me,
I can always turn to him
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and he will always help me.
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TRANSLATION: I thought that amongst
the girls that were in the kibbutz,
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she was so much more suitable
for me.
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That's what I thought.
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At the age of 21,
Halina gave birth to a son,
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but she found it hard to be
a mother.
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I yell at him about everything.
I didn't want to hit him.
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I thought that instead of hitting,
I'll yell at him -
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that's how I'll teach him.
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I'd give speeches during my yelling.
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One of the reasons Halina
found parenting difficult was
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because of what happened here.
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This is Majdanek camp in Poland.
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The Nazis sent Halina
and her mother
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to the camp from the Warsaw Ghetto
in 1943.
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When they first arrived,
Halina was not too worried.
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And now they'll take us to a shower
and give us different clothes,
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and they'll take us
to these barracks
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and whoever is willing and can work,
nothing will happen to you.
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The barracks you see over there,
there's probably beds
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and food and water
and everything will be good.
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Halina was taken into
one of the shower rooms at the camp
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and was washed clean...
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but suddenly she became anxious.
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My mum is not coming in
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and everything is turning
upside down in my stomach.
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"What? Is she not going to come?
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"She'll never be here again,
my mother?"
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Her mother had been led a few yards
away towards a small building
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at the back of the shower block.
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Here were gas chambers.
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00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,440
Almost certainly in one of these,
Halina's mother was murdered.
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I have no words at all.
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I didn't cry.
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It was beyond tears. It's all over.
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There is nothing any more.
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There is no sky, no more earth,
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as if they took
and broke my legs and hands.
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So I started to go round the shower.
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"Mother is gone.
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"Mother is gone. Mother is gone."
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At the age of just 13,
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Halina had to fight to survive in
Majdanek,
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then Auschwitz
and a series of other Nazi camps,
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all without her mother by her side.
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After the war was over,
when she was in Israel,
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Halina once again
missed her mother's love and help
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as she struggled with her new baby.
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At night he used to cry
and I didn't know how to handle it.
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Everything was so different, so new.
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When a child is born, there are
so many sleepless nights
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and I just wasn't ready for these
kind of things.
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And once her son could talk,
Halina also had to decide how best
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to explain the number the Nazis had
tattooed on her arm.
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When the child was small
and he saw the number on my arm,
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he asked, "Why did you
draw on your hand?"
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So I said, "I didn't draw it.
There was a war and people were bad."
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"Who were the people?"
"They were the Germans."
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Soon Halina was telling her
son about all the horrors
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she had experienced during the war.
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At the age of five
he knew what happened to you?
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Yes, and he was scared.
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TRANSLATION: Mum told me
horrifying stories.
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Horrible.
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Things that were
completely aggravating,
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that extract so much rage
and anger and even violence,
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like internal, that I never knew
what to do with them.
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There isn't a day when she doesn't
speak of what happened,
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from different aspects,
and I have to listen.
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I'm there to absorb and listen,
until at the end
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I can't cut her off and say,
"Mother, you already said that.
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"Mother, I already know this story.
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"This you already told me
a long time ago." I can't.
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I don't want to hurt her.
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I also want to give her
a chance to let it out.
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I feel I've got some sort of role
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and have had from a young age.
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A child doesn't need
this role at a young age -
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he needs to be a child.
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It didn't allow me to be a child.
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HE SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE
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Yakov has a very successful career
in the music industry in Israel,
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but it's proved difficult for him to
escape the events of his childhood.
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I went to therapy,
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with breaks here and there from one
therapist to another.
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Overall, 40 years of therapy.
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It took me a long time
to peel it away
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and get to the places where I could,
for instance, be mad at my mother.
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In Israel, the problems
faced by children
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of Holocaust survivors
are well-known.
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Here in Jerusalem is
the headquarters of an organisation
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that offers support, not just to
Holocaust survivors
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but their children as well -
the so called "second generation".
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Very often, all kinds of expectations
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that were put
on the second generation,
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like, you know, "You didn't suffer
what we went through
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"so you can achieve."
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You were also named after somebody
who is dead, so you have to fulfil
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not only your own life but also
the life of the person who is dead.
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THEY SPEAK OWN LANGUAGE
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At AMHA, one of the counsellors
with experience of the problems
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00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,800
faced by children of Holocaust
survivors is Dr Giselle Cycowicz.
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00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,360
'It's terrible.
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'It's a terrible load for a child to
grow up under this kind of misery,'
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to live with constant reminder
of horror...
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..both as a Jew...
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..and as a child.
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You are a teenager.
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00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:34,800
You want to break out, as this
is the nature of a teenager,
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but you always have on your back
that load.
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Dr Cycowicz also believes
that it's important to
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remember that none of this is
the parents' fault.
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It's not a question of blame.
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It's just a question
of being inflicted,
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like somebody's inflicted
with cancer.
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00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,240
You cannot blame
the mother that she has cancer,
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00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:05,720
but what it does to the child
is it puts on a burden to be
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the caretaker of somebody
who should be his caretaker,
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00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,880
you know, a reversal of roles.
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Dr Cycowicz has a special empathy
with Holocaust survivors
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because she is a Holocaust
survivor herself,
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having been sent
to Auschwitz in 1944.
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Today, here in West Jerusalem,
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00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,720
she is on a visit to counsel
another survivor.
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00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,600
Dr Cycowicz's patient is a woman
who's plagued by bad dreams.
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For Dr Cycowicz,
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conversations like this aren't
just of benefit to her patients.
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Well, I get part of...
SHE LAUGHS
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..of her therapy, when I treat her.
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'It helps me.'
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I think it helps me.
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00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,920
It helps me. I don't need to be
distant from it.
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I don't believe that you chase away
thoughts and you don't think of it.
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But with her own children,
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Dr Cycowicz was careful how
she talked about her traumatic past.
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Though she didn't hide that she'd
been in Auschwitz from them,
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she never went into detail about how
she'd suffered.
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You know, my mother is
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very strong
and she made a life for herself,
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and she continued and we grew
up in a positive environment.
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In other words, she was...
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She wasn't someone
who the Holocaust broke her
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00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,960
and we were in this home,
this dysfunctional home.
241
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,960
I think we had a very normal home
and, like my sister said,
242
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,160
there were stories here and there
about things, but...
243
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,880
it wasn't part of our consciousness -
"Our mother's a survivor."
244
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,240
Dr Cycowicz has a PhD in psychology
and knows how valuable
245
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,840
science can be in helping families
deal with a difficult past...
246
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,360
..but she also believes in the power
of a non-scientific force.
247
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,960
I never stopped believing in God.
248
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,840
I know that my faith was
never shaken.
249
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:47,360
I believe that if something doesn't
go well, there is a reason for it,
250
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,640
there must be a reason to it,
251
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,040
and in time I find
out what the reason is.
252
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,280
Do you think in time you'll find out
what the reason for Auschwitz was?
253
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,080
I will not find it out,
254
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,720
but people who live a hundred
years from now will know.
255
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,480
Some cataclysm will
happen in the world.
256
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,960
But couldn't the reason
Auschwitz happened just be
257
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,800
that the Nazis wanted
to kill people?
258
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,280
That's a reason.
259
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,240
These were the tools of God to carry
out this awful thing.
260
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,440
He picked a Hitler and he picked...
261
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,520
SHE CLEARS HER THROAT
262
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,600
It was part of the instruments...
263
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,760
..that carried this out.
264
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,000
There are also many survivors
of Auschwitz
265
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,720
who don't possess a religious faith,
266
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,760
like Halina Birenbaum,
267
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,280
seen here at an Israeli school
on Holocaust Memorial Day.
268
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,160
TRANSLATION: 'There is no God.
269
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,200
'There's no need to fast any more.'
270
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,320
Halina believes passionately that
it's important people hear
271
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,800
and understand her story.
272
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,480
She's written a book about her life
and often talks in schools.
273
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,520
But she also recognised in recent
years that her own previous
274
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,720
suffering might have led her
to make mistakes
275
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,720
in her dealings with her son.
276
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,560
I said, "I ask for
your forgiveness."
277
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,600
And I hugged him
and I kissed him and he kissed me,
278
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,480
and since then it's OK.
279
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,760
To hear that apology,
it was worth it all, really.
280
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,640
Since then, a new phase was
created in my relationship
281
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,040
with my mother that continues
to this day.
282
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,040
FAMILY CONVERSATION
283
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,280
Even though the relationship between
Halina and Yakov has entered
284
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,840
this new phase, the subject of the
Holocaust remains a contentious one.
285
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:26,960
ALL SING A FOLK SONG
286
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,480
As for Giselle Cycowicz,
287
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,720
she has one piece of advice
for the next generation.
288
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,560
'What I tell my children,'
289
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,600
and this is what
I would like to really bring across,
290
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,160
not to explode at little things.
291
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,520
Anger.
292
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,600
And there is a saying in the books -
293
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,480
anger will drive you
out of this world.
294
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:20,120
I am not big enough to revenge
six million Jews
295
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:21,880
and I don't have the wish.
296
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,320
I cannot do it.
297
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,000
BIG BAND JAZZ PLAYS
298
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,720
Auschwitz survivors didn't just
flock to Israel after the war -
299
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,720
many of them came here, to America.
300
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,720
This is Highland Park
in the state of Illinois,
301
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,440
the home of Max Epstein,
302
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,880
a retired university professor
with a wife,
303
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,440
three children
and five grandchildren.
304
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,040
'There are some, I don't know about
schools specifically, but...'
305
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,720
And, as his son and daughter-in-law
tell him via the internet,
306
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,600
another grandchild
due to arrive soon.
307
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,320
'Yeah, we're really excited.'
308
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,160
You are really excited?
'Really. Really.'
309
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,320
Because the baby is going to be
the next generation?
310
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,680
Yeah. As my father said to me,
311
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,520
he said, "So you're carrying,
in your tummy,
312
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,360
"Max's victory over Hitler."
313
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:32,600
Oh, my goodness! Oh, my
goodness! That is...
314
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,400
That's hitting it right on the nose.
315
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,000
THEY LAUGH
316
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,160
Victory over Hitler
because Max suffered in Auschwitz,
317
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,440
but despite his own treatment by the
Nazis, Max has lived a happy life.
318
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,000
He is another Auschwitz survivor
who has not let anger drive him
319
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,680
out of this world.
320
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,960
You already made that.
321
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,440
'I cannot make myself judge people.'
322
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,200
I believe in kindness.
323
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:06,760
And you got that from Auschwitz?
324
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,760
Strangely, yes.
325
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,200
As a philosophy, yes, that's true.
326
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,520
Yeah, that's true.
327
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,240
But when Max first
arrived at Auschwitz,
328
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,760
what he sensed was
an atmosphere of horror.
329
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,720
They took us down from the train.
330
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,400
Waiting...
331
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,120
with...I and my mother.
332
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,000
Max and his mother, as Polish Jews,
333
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,760
were sent to
Auschwitz from a ghetto in 1944.
334
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,880
This was the period of the most
frenzied killing at Auschwitz,
335
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,440
as hundreds of thousands
of Hungarian Jews,
336
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,200
like those pictured here,
arrived at the camp.
337
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,480
Er...
338
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,400
It didn't take more than
about 20 minutes.
339
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,840
The smell, you know, it was like
burning hair, you know, organic.
340
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,320
So it was crystal clear -
341
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,600
four crematoria going full blast.
342
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,400
Big Hungarian liquidation, 400,000,
came in.
343
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,040
On arrival at Auschwitz,
Max and his mother were separated.
344
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,920
Max was now on his own.
345
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,760
Auschwitz-Birkenau was
divided into many sub camps,
346
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,960
and once or twice Max's mother was
able to come near to the wire
347
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:58,280
between her camp and the section of
Auschwitz where he was imprisoned.
348
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,720
So she actually came and we talked
and we screamed to each other.
349
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,280
And I remember,
you remember of course,
350
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,640
being a young punk.
351
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,680
She cried...
352
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,200
And I said, "Why are you crying?
What you crying?
353
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,520
"We are going to be dead anyway,
so what's the point?"
354
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,600
You know, smartass kind of kid.
355
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,400
Max was sent to work at a factory
in the countryside
356
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,120
less than a mile from the camp.
357
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,200
Here, one German soldier picked him
out from the other prisoners.
358
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,720
So I started walking with him,
he says to me,
359
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,560
"Listen, I don't
give a damn what you do.
360
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,320
"I don't like seeing
small boys being beaten."
361
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,000
Max only worked at the factory
for a few weeks,
362
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,520
but the compassionate way in which
this German soldier treated him -
363
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,560
by trying to protect him
from the appalling brutality
364
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,520
that was all around -
has affected Max ever since.
365
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,760
It was very dark...
366
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:22,240
..and the smallest act of kindness
appeared like a large spark.
367
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,040
I choose to remember the sparks -
368
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,240
that's my motto -
and that's what I live by.
369
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,040
Kindness...because there is always
kindness.
370
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,160
NEWSREEL: General Eisenhower
comes to see with his own eyes
371
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,880
the atrocities in Nazi prison camps
captured by the Allied armies.
372
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,280
Once the Nazi concentration camps
were liberated,
373
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,720
the world discovered the full horror
of Hitler's regime.
374
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,240
As for the horror
he himself had suffered,
375
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,520
Max was doing his best to forget it.
376
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,400
'to summon members of Congress
and high-ranking... '
377
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,200
I decided I'm going to erase
the goddamned thing...
378
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,360
..from my conscience
and from everything that I do.
379
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,160
Erase, erase, erase it.
380
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,880
I mean completely erase it. Why?
381
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,760
It's an important part of your life.
382
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:34,520
Because I was amazed and...
elated that I survived
383
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,200
and I can now go after what I want.
384
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,640
The chief thing he now wanted
was his mother.
385
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,280
After many weeks of searching,
he managed to find her.
386
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,440
She came out, pleasantly surprised.
387
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,720
More than that. More than that.
388
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,960
Much more than that.
389
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,440
What was her reaction? Well, it's...
390
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,240
I presume it must have
been profound.
391
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,040
Now, I am a family man.
392
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,480
I belong to a family.
393
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,400
I'm not alone.
394
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,240
In 1948, Max and his mother were
living in the new state of Israel,
395
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,520
having first moved to Palestine
after the war ended.
396
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,640
Unlike some Holocaust survivors,
397
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,240
Max experienced no prejudice
against him.
398
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,720
I spoke Hebrew freely.
399
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,120
I immediately integrated
into society,
400
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,720
my best friend was an Israeli-born.
401
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,480
I had no problems at all.
402
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:23,120
There was no question,
even in the kibbutz already.
403
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,280
MUSIC: Hava Naglia
by Andre Rieu
404
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,440
It was a beautiful time.
It was gorgeous.
405
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,720
From a...
406
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,680
It was really pastoral.
407
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,720
When the new state of Israel
was attacked by neighbouring Arabs,
408
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,760
Max fought
in the Israeli armed forces.
409
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,440
This turned out to offer him
410
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,080
another way of putting his
experience in Auschwitz behind him.
411
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,520
The best thing
they could have done for me.
412
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,400
That was the best catharsis
that one could offer.
413
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,240
Just like that.
414
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,280
Out of victimhood,
out of talking about it,
415
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,640
not speaking about the fact that
you're participating in an event
416
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,640
that happens 1-2,000 years.
417
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:42,000
After just a few years in Israel,
Max decided on a dramatic change.
418
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,480
Max's father had always
had great ambitions for him.
419
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,040
And even though he'd died
in the ghetto,
420
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,040
his influence on Max
was still strong.
421
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,160
You know,
it's a very interesting thing.
422
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,200
A dead father
still controls your life.
423
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,880
Did you know that?
424
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,040
I wanted the opportunity to succeed.
425
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,200
Look, I'm satisfying
my father's wish.
426
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,200
That's what he wanted.
427
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,160
MUSIC: Sing, Sing, Sing
by The Wynford Big Band
428
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,800
To further his career, Max moved
to America with his mother in 1953.
429
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,440
They soon settled here in Chicago.
430
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,560
Max pursued his academic studies
at Northwestern University,
431
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,120
eventually becoming a professor
of electrical engineering.
432
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:15,400
He remained a bachelor, living with
his mother until his late 30s.
433
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,840
Then, he met the woman
who was to become his wife.
434
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,640
Having been a bachelor for so long,
435
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,880
what was it
that attracted you about...?
436
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,280
Well, first of all,
she was very beautiful.
437
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,200
What do you mean, "was"?
438
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:31,760
I'm sorry.
439
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,880
50 years and still an error.
440
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,520
Yeah, but she was beautiful
441
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,120
and my mother was very impressed
with her
442
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,520
because she had
an extremely neat purse.
443
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,040
My mother says, "She's so neat."
444
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,960
So, instead of asking for the purse,
445
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,880
I ask for the hand.
446
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,760
HE CHUCKLES
447
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,560
Max and Judy eventually settled in
Highland Park, a suburb of Chicago,
448
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,080
and over the next few years,
raised three children.
449
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,080
On a special anniversary,
450
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,360
Max's daughter Deborah
and her family arrive for a visit.
451
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,160
Oh. Hi, guys! Hi. Hi!
452
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,600
Hey, you guys.
453
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,640
We got Dad a Father's Day
present from everybody.
454
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,120
From us too? Uh-huh.
Happy Father's Day.
455
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,240
Max didn't keep his background
a total secret
456
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,360
from his children and grandchildren,
457
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,240
but he did spare them the details
of his wartime experience.
458
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,200
It's at the start of the next zone.
Mm?
459
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,400
It starts at the start
of the next zone.
460
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,160
I don't think... This is worse.
Try by itself. Try by itself.
461
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,920
He made a point of never...
talking about the horrors
462
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,840
and the atrocities.
463
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,200
It's going the other way.
464
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,320
'I think the way he's dealt with
his background has been a help.
465
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,440
'Not what he went through, but how
he has chosen to talk about it,'
466
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,680
and focus on it,
and relay the experiences to us.
467
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,040
In Auschwitz, the Nazis tattooed
a number on Max's arm,
468
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,720
but to his children,
he made it into a joke.
469
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,440
They just wanted
to know what this is.
470
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,440
So, I said this is a number.
471
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,640
If I lose my arm,
472
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,800
they will know where to return it.
473
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,240
What I got out of it is you get
through things, horrible things.
474
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,280
There's a resilience
that can carry you
475
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,200
so, I mean I've never gone through
anything that horrible in my life,
476
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,160
of course,
but if I've gone through hard times
477
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,240
and I've been depressed,
I would say it's...
478
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,400
In the back of my mind,
I've always felt, you know,
479
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,800
if my father can get through that
480
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,800
and come out as cheerful
and as wonderful as he is,
481
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,960
certainly, I can get through
whatever struggle I have.
482
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,400
CLAMOUR
483
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,600
But in the 1970s,
484
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,760
Max's policy of not speaking openly
about the Holocaust was tested.
485
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,760
This is a real white victory
for our people today
486
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,520
and it's something that they'll
remember for the future.
487
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,160
The National Socialist Party
of America,
488
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,840
a racist group wearing the swastika,
489
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,920
wanted to march through
various areas of Chicago,
490
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,920
including Skokie, a Jewish suburb.
491
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,600
They lied as usual,
see, Pop just told me
492
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,640
that we'd be in front of the trees
and not behind them.
493
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,440
Not surprisingly,
there were widespread protests.
494
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,600
CROWD CLAMOURS
495
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,880
In the wake of the controversy,
496
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,600
the local community decided to
establish a Holocaust museum.
497
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,640
The newest version of the museum
is on this site,
498
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,280
northwest of the city.
499
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,240
When Max was approached to help
500
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,760
and speak about
his own wartime experiences,
501
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,160
he just didn't think
he could say no.
502
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,520
My attempt to erase the Holocaust
from my memory and just
503
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,880
continue to live as if it didn't
exist has become a complete failure.
504
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,880
I just wanted to forget it,
but it's impossible to do that.
505
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,080
It is a responsibility,
it really is.
506
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,760
It answers the same question -
507
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,040
for decent men to do nothing
is what causes evil to triumph.
508
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,720
So, I think that I, as a survivor,
am supposed to what?
509
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,160
Move away or disappear?
510
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:56,560
That would be nothing
but desertion of what I think,
511
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:02,600
what I believe, is an obligation.
512
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,960
For Max, there is one final victory.
513
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,480
I am 150% winner.
514
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:15,880
I have very successful children
and grandchildren.
515
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,600
They are all hard-working,
committed to raise children
516
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,560
and making it the most important
thing in their life.
517
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,080
That means not only did I do it,
518
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,880
but the next generation
is carrying it.
519
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,240
Most people who were sent
to Auschwitz were like Max -
520
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,000
they were Jewish.
521
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,680
MAN SPEAKS
OVER LOUDSPEAKER
522
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,960
But many thousands of non-Jews
also suffered in Auschwitz.
523
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,640
Here at a commemoration ceremony
at Auschwitz-Birkenau
524
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,920
is someone who experienced life
in the camp at the age of nine.
525
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,280
His name is Hermann Hollenreiner.
526
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,480
SPEECH CONTINUES
527
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,120
FEMALE SPEAKER
INTRODUCES GUESTS
528
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,600
Hermann Hollenreiner, known as Mano
to his family and friends,
529
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,000
was born and bred in Germany.
530
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,000
He comes from a Sinti background.
531
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,600
The Germans called him
a Zigeuner or Gypsy.
532
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,640
One whole section of
Auschwitz-Birkenau was designated
533
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,480
by the Nazis the Zigeunerlager -
the Gypsy camp.
534
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,280
Unusually for Auschwitz,
the Nazis allowed those imprisoned
535
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,440
in the Zigeunerlager
to stay together in family groups.
536
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,560
Here, at any one time,
537
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,120
up to 15,000 men, women and children
were crammed together.
538
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,800
Several hundred thousand
Sinti and Roma
539
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,560
were murdered during the
Second World War by the Nazis.
540
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,480
19,000 died in Auschwitz alone.
541
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,400
Mano was sent with his family
to the Gypsy camp in 1943.
542
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,080
TRANSLATION: We would pull out
the grass like rabbits
543
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,160
so that we could just eat it
544
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,600
and if an SS caught us,
we would get beaten.
545
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,320
That was also bad.
546
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,640
But then everything that happened
in Birkenau was bad.
547
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,240
We had to get up early,
then work, sweep the floor.
548
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:07,080
We had to work in the forest,
that was over there,
549
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,480
and then the crematorium,
we had to bring the dead there,
550
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,480
the small children,
we had to put them in a wheelbarrow.
551
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:20,200
Soon, I can't talk
about this any more. Seriously.
552
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,720
I can't understand
how I'm still alive.
553
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:33,440
It's a miracle we're still alive
and that I've got to 80 years old.
554
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:42,360
The Gypsy camp was liquidated by
the Nazis on 2nd August, 1944.
555
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,680
Nearly 3,000 were murdered.
556
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,080
But Mano and his family
had been transferred
557
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,440
to another concentration camp
just weeks before.
558
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,320
By the time the camps
were finally liberated,
559
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,400
in the spring of 1945,
560
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,160
Mano had become separated
from his mother, father and sister.
561
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,240
There were now millions
of displaced people in Europe.
562
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,920
Mano was just one of them.
563
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,880
He was lost and sick...
564
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,560
..and just 11 years old.
565
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,080
TRANSLATION: I got so ill,
I was unconscious.
566
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,400
I didn't know anything any more.
567
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,440
And the French,
they took me with them.
568
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,560
And then I came to France.
569
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,080
All of the others who were with me,
and who'd also been in the camps,
570
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,640
were picked up, and I was just
standing there all alone.
571
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,920
And such a language I'd never
heard before in my life.
572
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,480
I had no idea where I was.
573
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,720
He was here, in Paris,
574
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,400
with no way of finding his parents.
575
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,520
Suddenly, Madame Fouquet came.
576
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,240
She was from Alsace, she knew German.
577
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:34,120
She approached me and just
took me with her to her flat.
578
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:42,720
Madame Fouquet brought Mano to this
building on the outskirts of Paris.
579
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,240
She lived here in a two-roomed flat
on the second floor
580
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,240
with her family including
her 16-year-old son Paul.
581
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,160
TRANSLATION: My mother explained
to us
582
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,200
that she'd taken in
a young deportee for a few days.
583
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,080
He arrived in our lives like that
and we supported him.
584
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,720
We did what we could to help him.
585
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,320
They were like parents to me.
586
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,360
They would give me their last food.
587
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,000
They were really there for me.
They bathed me. Everything.
588
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,560
And with Paul, he was three years
older than me, or four years.
589
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,160
He would, like, grab my hand
and go for a walk with me and stuff.
590
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,920
We tried to calm him,
explain to him.
591
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,080
He was nervous, he moved a lot.
He shook all the time.
592
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,600
I only wanted to sleep
on the plain floor
593
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,160
and I ate with my hands.
594
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,040
What did I know
from a knife and fork?
595
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,520
Mano appeared
so emotionally disturbed
596
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,200
that he was admitted to this
hospital in Paris for treatment.
597
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,080
He found the experience terrifying.
598
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,800
In the mental hospital,
599
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,400
there were 10 or 15 ill children
600
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,720
and everything was messy
and they ate their own faeces.
601
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:27,880
And they screamed and stuff.
602
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,080
But it was to get worse.
603
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,160
Mano was subjected to a new
experimental form of treatment -
604
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,120
electric shocks to the brain.
605
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,520
That was horrible,
the electric shock.
606
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,000
They gave me 10 or 15.
607
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,680
That was horrible.
608
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,680
That was horrible.
609
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,280
Then came this professor
who got me out of there.
610
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,400
He had a good look at me
and questioned me a little bit
611
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,560
and then I was sent to
a children's home,
612
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,200
a good children's home.
613
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,960
It was maybe 100km from Paris.
614
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,640
Meanwhile Mano's parents,
who'd survived the war,
615
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,720
had been looking for him.
616
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,520
And in 1947, he was finally traced.
617
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,920
At long last,
Mano could return home.
618
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,440
MUSIC: Im Munchen Steht Ein
Hofbrauhaus by Alfons Bauer
619
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,320
I saw my sister again and my father.
620
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,880
My mum hugged me, everyone cried,
621
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,400
and all the Sinti who were my
relatives came and they hugged me.
622
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,880
I couldn't speak a word of German,
only French.
623
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,120
One was back with one's parents.
624
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,360
One would feel good again.
625
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,000
I did love my parents.
626
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,240
Mano and his family
travelled around various towns
627
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,560
and villages in Bavaria,
selling door-to-door
628
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:13,000
and putting on prize boxing matches,
challenging local youths.
629
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,800
They also lived
part of the time in Munich,
630
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:24,400
and it was here in a dancehall that
Mano met a young woman called Else.
631
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,120
What did you
find attractive about her?
632
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,280
She was very sexy. It's true.
633
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,560
There was something about her
that I liked.
634
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,520
Else soon discovered
635
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,800
that her new boyfriend
was not only of Sinti origin,
636
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,880
he was also illiterate.
637
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,960
Else's mother seemed to find it
all rather amusing.
638
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,720
TRANSLATION:
She jokingly said to my father,
639
00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:00,520
"Well, Else will bring us
a son-in-law now,
640
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,640
"a Gypsy who can't read and write."
641
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,880
She didn't know how serious
it was already
642
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,800
cos I was already pregnant
with the first child.
643
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,520
You have only yourself to blame.
644
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,760
Yes, and that's how it continued,
everything went really fast.
645
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,800
What I learnt very quickly
was that he was insecure in a way.
646
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,920
He'd always pick a quarrel.
647
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,240
I felt like someone
who had to protect him.
648
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:42,480
Mano and Else married in 1957
and had three children.
649
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,640
Their daughter Carol
still lives with them.
650
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,240
And Mano also lives
with the legacy of the war.
651
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,080
Well, I am nervous.
Feelings of anxiety still.
652
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,960
I still get feelings of anxiety.
653
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,320
If I see a movie with SS in it,
I switch over because I get so angry.
654
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,720
Yeah.
655
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,560
TRANSLATION: I think a child
takes a father as he is.
656
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,000
As a child, I just thought,
"That's how he is."
657
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,720
But now I know where it comes from.
658
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:22,080
He's very nervous. Super nervous.
659
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,840
And that, for me, is a direct result
of the concentration camps.
660
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:43,440
The nightmare which he has is
the one I've always known about,
661
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,120
even as a child.
He's always dreamt this.
662
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,080
He expresses himself by screaming,
like an animal.
663
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,480
First of all, you don't think
this is a human who's screaming.
664
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,520
And the next day, he would tell me
that he's had this dream
665
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,920
and it's always the same dream.
666
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,240
I did ask why...
about what he had in the dream
667
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:06,640
and then he says
it's always the same dream.
668
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,000
A woman is sitting, an old woman,
on his chest
669
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,680
with very long fingernails,
670
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,840
and she's stabbing him
into his chest.
671
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,400
I do think that it affects me.
672
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,920
I think...
673
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,200
Well, I think children
of Holocaust survivors,
674
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,280
they somehow inherit their anxiety.
675
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,000
I do think that one is more
distrustful towards other people...
676
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,960
..because one never knows
what's behind what they're saying.
677
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:57,800
THEY TALK IN GERMAN
678
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,560
Several years into their marriage,
679
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,600
Mano embarked on a new career
as an antiques dealer.
680
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,160
He and his wife would travel around
southern Germany and Austria
681
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,680
searching for furniture
they could buy and sell.
682
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,000
And even though money was tight,
683
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,920
Mano always believed
in enjoying himself.
684
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,640
TRANSLATION: I drove expensive cars.
685
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,480
I spent money like it was
going out of fashion.
686
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,760
I mean we didn't have money,
but still I'd buy them on credit.
687
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,960
Yes, at the time,
I didn't have a winter coat,
688
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,440
but I had a big nice car.
689
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,280
My life insurance was worth a car.
690
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,840
I got 120,000 for that
691
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,520
and I instantly bought the car
in cash in Karlsruhe.
692
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,560
I even got it
a little bit cheaper for cash.
693
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,640
Then I got two Mercedes SLs.
I paid in cash for them too.
694
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,280
And my wife almost cried
because we bought these cars
695
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,400
and she'd have preferred
to have bought another house.
696
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,440
But you know what women are like.
697
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,920
MUSIC: Fountains Of Rome: The Villa
Medici Fountain by London Symphony
Orchestra and Lamberto Gardelli
698
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,920
Mano never forgot the generosity
of the French family
699
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,040
who'd offered him a home
in the months after the war.
700
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,160
But he lost touch with them.
701
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,200
Until a few years ago, he learnt
that one of his oldest friends
702
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,880
now lived here in Ceillac,
high in the French Alps.
703
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:52,680
This is the home of Paul who first
befriended Mano back in 1945.
704
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,040
THEY GREET EACH OTHER
705
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,320
THEY TALK IN FRENCH
706
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:34,200
Paul retired to Ceillac
with his wife.
707
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,240
And they now live in the village
close to their children,
708
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:40,360
grandchildren
and great-grandchildren.
709
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,960
Paul had always told them
about Mano,
710
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,360
his friend who had suffered
in the Gypsy camp at Auschwitz,
711
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,640
but had lost hope of
ever seeing him again.
712
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,000
TRANSLATION: It's just sad
that we met so late.
713
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,840
That was my parent's fault.
714
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,520
They were happy that
we were travelling, on a journey,
715
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,560
like it used to be for the Sinti.
716
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,920
But I would always think of
Auntie Fifine, of Paul, and of Felix.
717
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,680
I would always think
of being with them.
718
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,000
They all cared for me a lot
otherwise I just wouldn't be here.
719
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,640
After a time,
he was like a brother to me.
720
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,520
And Auntie Fifine...
721
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,760
For me, they were like angels.
722
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,560
The most important thing, he says,
723
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,560
is that you found each other again.
724
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,560
Yes, it's true.
725
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,800
Mano, like all those
imprisoned in the Gypsy camp,
726
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,640
experienced life
in Auschwitz-Birkenau,
727
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,560
but there was also
another Auschwitz.
728
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,080
This is Auschwitz main camp,
729
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,520
a mile-and-a-half away
from Auschwitz-Birkenau.
730
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,560
It's the original Auschwitz,
731
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,040
opened in 1940 by the Nazis
732
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:35,560
in order to terrorise
the local Polish population.
733
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,400
It was also a place of murder.
734
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,520
Over half of the Poles
first sent to Auschwitz in 1940
735
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,760
were dead within 20 months.
736
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:53,880
Tadeusz Smreczynski arrived
here in 1944 at the age of 19.
737
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,480
Whilst in the hands of the Nazis,
738
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,440
he would experience a life-changing
moment of great insight.
739
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,680
But before that could happen,
740
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,800
he had to survive
his first day in Auschwitz.
741
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,320
TRANSLATION:
We were all sitting quietly,
742
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,720
thinking about our fate
and our families
743
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,360
because we knew that this was
the last day of our lives.
744
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:26,600
He was taken to the most feared
place inside Auschwitz main camp.
745
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:29,680
Block 11.
746
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,040
A prison within a prison.
747
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:37,760
Tadeusz was charged, in part,
748
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,520
with helping others to
escape from the Germans.
749
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:45,720
In this room he was subjected
to a parody of a trial -
750
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,360
one that lasted just a few minutes.
751
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:55,600
When my turn came I went
into the room...
752
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,760
..and was asked to provide
my personal details...
753
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,520
..but the sentence was not passed.
754
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,960
Tadeusz didn't know it yet,
but he'd been lucky.
755
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,520
Most people who were tried
in Block 11 that day
756
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:24,520
were taken from Auschwitz main camp
757
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,480
and murdered in the gas chambers
of Birkenau.
758
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,040
But for reasons he was never told,
Tadeusz was not one of them.
759
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,280
We were supplied
with striped uniforms
760
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,640
and we became
the prisoners of Auschwitz.
761
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,480
It was positively surprising to us,
762
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,080
because it meant a chance for life.
763
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,800
Tadeusz endured around six weeks
in Auschwitz main camp.
764
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,120
Then he was selected
to go on a journey.
765
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,280
He was taken 350 miles away,
766
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:22,800
through the Alps.
767
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,000
An area of exceptional beauty
768
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,160
where people were facing
their tragic fate.
769
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,520
Eventually he reached
the city of Linz in Austria.
770
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,800
Tadeusz was now imprisoned
in a new concentration camp -
771
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,080
one that in 1944
used to be on this spot.
772
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:02,480
Here he had an insight
773
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,680
that was to change
the rest of his life.
774
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:13,800
Looking at it all, I felt that
life could only regain sense
775
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,480
if you try and do good
to other people.
776
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,760
I decided that if I survive,
777
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,600
I would become a doctor.
778
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,400
I was inspired by prisoners
who were doctors
779
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,160
who were helping others in the camp.
780
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,720
MUSIC: Russian National Anthem
781
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,560
The war ended,
782
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,600
and Tadeusz returned
to a different Poland -
783
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,520
one no longer occupied by the Nazis,
784
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,400
but, instead,
dominated by Communists,
785
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,120
backed by Stalin.
786
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,560
Tadeusz went to Krakow
in southern Poland.
787
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,600
Here he began his studies
to become a doctor.
788
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,560
By now, he'd fallen in love.
789
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:24,920
TRANSLATION:
He was really good looking,
790
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,400
which you can see on the photos.
791
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:32,400
I invited him
to a couple of big parties.
792
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:39,360
After the war
we started to have some fun.
793
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,320
All seemed to be going
well for Tadeusz.
794
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,240
Not only was he in love,
795
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,520
but he'd gained a place at the
prestigious Jagiellonian University
796
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,320
here in Krakow -
797
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,480
one of the most famous universities
in the whole of Europe.
798
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,480
He did well in his studies,
799
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,880
and seemed set on a hugely
successful career...
800
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,520
..until one day he was taken aside
801
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,120
and asked to join
the Communist Party.
802
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,360
Sticking to his principles,
he refused.
803
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:27,360
I totally rejected
Communism in the form it existed.
804
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:31,680
After he qualified as a doctor,
805
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,880
the Communist authorities refused
to allow him to work in a clinic
806
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,600
and pursue medical research.
807
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,680
Instead he was forced to
join the army
808
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,680
and sent to the opposite end
of Poland from his wife and child.
809
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:49,720
I asked a lieutenant why they were
taking me to the army
810
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:54,080
at this point in time, when I stood
a chance of an academic career.
811
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:58,920
He said,
"Because you are an enemy by class."
812
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,400
After six years,
he was able to leave the army,
813
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,320
and he set up as a doctor
in the coal mining town
814
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,320
where his wife came from,
in the south of Poland.
815
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,400
There was only one problem.
816
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,760
His house and surgery
817
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,960
were only a ten-minute drive away
from Auschwitz.
818
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,200
So close, that the road
they lived on
819
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,840
was subsequently renamed
Victims of Auschwitz Street.
820
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,600
Living this near to Auschwitz
was not easy for Tadeusz.
821
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:51,400
The stress was really present
when passing by the camp.
822
01:04:54,880 --> 01:05:00,400
Nearly every bit of the camp
reminded me of something.
823
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,840
So it was upsetting.
824
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,800
Then there was another legacy
of the camp -
825
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,080
the number the Nazis
had tattooed on his arm.
826
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,520
HE SPEAKS IN POLISH
827
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:25,760
TRANSLATION: I had it cut
out by a friend of mine.
828
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,040
There's a dot left, and a scar,
829
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,120
which is practically invisible.
830
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,840
I was convinced that its absence
would make it easier for me
831
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:38,520
to forget those times.
832
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,120
But none of this changed my memory.
833
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,760
It's all so deeply fixed in my memory
834
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,080
that it can't be removed
by any scalpel.
835
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,000
Tadeusz had always
dreamed of living in Krakow.
836
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:15,080
When he retired,
he and his wife moved to a flat
837
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:16,600
in the suburbs of the city.
838
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,880
The rest of his family are full
of admiration
839
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,920
for the way he has coped
with the past.
840
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:28,320
TRANSLATION: It was a generation
that received no care whatsoever,
841
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,080
and they had to deal with their own
psychological issues by themselves.
842
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:33,200
THEY SPEAK IN POLISH
843
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:43,640
As a family man,
he's very warm and caring.
844
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:51,280
He was enormously loaded with work,
but he was there for us
845
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:53,800
as much as he could be.
846
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:59,080
And Tadeusz was careful
not to burden others
847
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,560
with the horrors he had experienced.
848
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,480
Only exceptionally
I would talk of it,
849
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,880
if someone started on the topic.
850
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,840
Otherwise I thought it too drastic
a subject of conversation
851
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,400
for those who did not share
the experience.
852
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,440
Tadeusz's former house
and surgery near Auschwitz
853
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,040
is now the home of his son Piotr
and his family.
854
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:30,800
He's also a doctor,
855
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,120
and sees patients in the house
just as his father did.
856
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,560
Their first son, Pawel,
was born with serious brain damage,
857
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,240
and Tadeusz, true to his belief
858
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,280
that life can only have meaning
if you help others,
859
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,160
cared for him as much as he could.
860
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,800
TRANSLATION: Grandfather loved Pawel
more than anything,
861
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,640
and spent a lot of time with him.
862
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,640
He would sit beside him,
stroke his back
863
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:05,040
or march across the room and sing,
because Pawel loved it.
864
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:14,520
I know that, unfortunately,
life can sometimes contain surprises,
865
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,880
and that whatever cheerful
and positive future
866
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:19,760
you imagine for yourself
867
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,360
can suddenly be changed into
something very different.
868
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:30,600
Tadeusz's life, of course, changed
forever because of Auschwitz.
869
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:32,520
He's still kept awake at night
870
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:34,760
by the memories he has of the place.
871
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:37,400
But, more than anything,
872
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:39,560
he's affected by one piece of music
873
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,040
that he always associates
with the camp.
874
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,800
Once in Auschwitz,
when on the way to the kitchen,
875
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,240
where we were paving the floor,
876
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:58,120
I suddenly heard someone singing
an aria from Tosca.
877
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:04,320
# E lucevan le stelle
878
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,920
# Ed olezzava la terra
879
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,600
# Stridea l'uscio dell'orto... #
880
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:22,880
The last part of Cavaradossi's
before his death.
881
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,600
# E un passo sfiorava la rena... #
882
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:37,240
Still, today, I get incredibly
emotional about it.
883
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,280
It was another prisoner,
hidden from view,
884
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:45,200
who was singing the aria.
885
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:54,000
# Mi cadea fra le braccia... #
886
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,080
The SS men ran over
and the singing suddenly stopped.
887
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,040
ARIA FADES
888
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:14,000
And I asked what happened.
889
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,680
He was killed.
890
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:27,560
# L'ora e fuggita
891
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:35,560
# E muoio disperato!
892
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:45,480
# E muoio disperato! #
893
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:56,920
If I come across that
aria from Tosca on radio or TV...
894
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:01,640
everything comes back -
895
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:08,680
the emotional experiences
and the wickedness of this world.
896
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,160
DOORBELL RINGS
897
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,200
THEY GREET EACH OTHER
898
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,400
SHE CHUCKLES
899
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,280
Tadeusz stays as close as he can
to his family.
900
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,120
Arriving for this family gathering
are his sister,
901
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:32,480
together with his grandson Piotr
and his girlfriend.
902
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,240
TRANSLATION: Grandad's got
strong principles,
903
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,040
and he always stands by them.
904
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:52,960
There are no circumstances
905
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,440
under which he'd depart
from his principles.
906
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,680
At the same time,
he's a man full of empathy
907
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,480
who always gives priority
to the family.
908
01:12:03,480 --> 01:12:06,320
That's why now I can say
that I would like to live my life
909
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,400
the way Grandad has lived his.
910
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:13,800
Tadeusz chose to live his life
in his original homeland
911
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:15,880
after the war,
912
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:19,840
but many other survivors moved
across Europe and made a new start.
913
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,080
One French survivor of the camp
914
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:33,440
ended up in London.
915
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,520
Her name is Freda Wineman.
916
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,320
Well, it was a very nice district.
917
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:45,120
Green, and it was lovely.
918
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:46,440
It was exciting, you know.
919
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:47,480
It was a...
920
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,440
It was a lovely city,
921
01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:53,760
and I liked this suburb,
922
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,240
and I found relations,
so it was nice.
923
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,440
NEWSREEL JINGLE
924
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:05,440
Freda didn't know it,
when she arrived in Britain in 1948,
925
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:07,920
but as she adapted
to this new country,
926
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,760
she was going to face
a number of problems.
927
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,400
One of them would be
not only unexpected
928
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:15,320
but also hugely traumatic.
929
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,080
But to start with,
930
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:20,320
she just had the minor difficulty
of coming to terms
931
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:21,960
with the British character.
932
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,360
They always say everything is fine,
you know.
933
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:28,360
The weather is fine.
934
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:32,080
"How are you?" "I'm fine."
So you were not used to it.
935
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,080
If you ask a French person
how they are,
936
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:36,480
they give you a whole medical list.
937
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:39,600
And they were not as warm,
I thought, the British.
938
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:42,760
They were not so outgoing,
they were very reserved.
939
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,440
Too reserved for my liking.
It was difficult.
940
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,080
NEWSREEL: Now we're going
up the street -
941
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:51,680
summer 1950,
942
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,040
no workers standing idle
and the shops open again.
943
01:13:57,480 --> 01:13:59,080
When she first came to Britain,
944
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,840
Freda tried to talk about
what had happened to her.
945
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:05,400
People didn't want to hear.
946
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:09,600
I had the impression that everybody
wanted to start a new life.
947
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,880
You know, make
a life for themselves again.
948
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:17,560
And trying to bury whatever
they went through.
949
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:21,960
But nobody wanted to know.
950
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:24,240
It was difficult.
951
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,040
It was especially difficult
for Freda,
952
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:37,840
because the memory of what she
had experienced at Auschwitz
953
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,000
haunted her as she slept.
954
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,320
I already had nightmares
all the time.
955
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:49,960
I was in the enclosure
of the crematorium...
956
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,400
..and I heard the door
were going to close...
957
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:58,680
and then I woke up.
Can you imagine what state I was?
958
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,680
This is the past
that Freda had to deal with.
959
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:09,080
When she'd arrived at Auschwitz,
on a Jewish transport from France,
960
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:13,240
she'd been separated from her mother
and younger brother.
961
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:14,920
They were taken to one of the four
962
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:18,680
crematoria/gas chamber complexes
in the camp.
963
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:19,880
One was here...
964
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:23,680
..the gas chamber
in the semi-basement of the building
965
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,040
next to an undressing room.
966
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:29,760
It was in one of these
factories of death in Auschwitz
967
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:33,600
that Freda's mother and younger
brother Marcel were murdered.
968
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:41,440
Freda was sent to the women's camp
at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
969
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:43,800
Here women were crammed
together in conditions
970
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,320
that were appalling
even for Auschwitz.
971
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:57,040
And the inmates were still subjected
to regular selections for death.
972
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:04,440
Directly in front of them
was one of the killing factories.
973
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:11,000
Our barracks were
so near the crematoriums,
974
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:14,520
and we could see the smoke
and smell the fire.
975
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,480
Not just smoke, fire.
976
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:20,640
I couldn't believe that anybody
could inflict such horror
977
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:22,200
on another person.
978
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:29,080
But, despite the horrors
of Auschwitz-Birkenau,
979
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:30,920
Freda did not give up hope.
980
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:37,320
I felt, even then, I was only 19, 20,
981
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:40,640
I felt I really had no teenage years,
nothing,
982
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:42,760
because we lived under
the occupation,
983
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:47,920
and now I'm here,
I haven't even lived yet, you know.
984
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:54,320
So there was still a little light
in me that wanted to live, you know.
985
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:01,560
Back in London, in 1949,
986
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,520
Freda's life was transformed.
987
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,040
She fell in love
and was soon married.
988
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,200
He was an exceptionally nice person.
989
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:16,240
He had all the qualities
I thought would be lovely for me.
990
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:26,160
Her husband, David Wineman,
came from a wealthy family.
991
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,080
So wealthy that he lived
with his parents
992
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:30,800
in a huge house in North London.
993
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,960
And straight after she was married,
Freda lived there with him.
994
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:39,120
This is the house.
995
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,440
They're taking it to pieces.
996
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,920
Unfortunately we can't see anything.
997
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:49,320
It's been sold.
998
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,400
I can't recognise it.
999
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,200
It's not there any more.
1000
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:54,680
Well, it was very big.
1001
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,080
It had a lot of land,
it had a rose garden,
1002
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:00,960
it had a vegetable garden,
it had an orchard,
1003
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:04,320
it had two big lawns,
1004
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:08,600
and then it had
six or seven bedrooms.
1005
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:12,240
After the birth
of their first daughter,
1006
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,280
Freda and David even discussed
buying their own huge house
1007
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:16,640
in North London.
1008
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:20,440
This one. This is the house.
1009
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,240
It's also a nice house!
1010
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:31,880
I liked the house, you know,
1011
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,840
it was up for sale,
so we considered it, but...
1012
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:38,920
For us, it would have been
just right.
1013
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,880
Do you ever drive by it
and think of what might have been?
1014
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:47,920
Sure.
SHE CHUCKLES
1015
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,200
But...
1016
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:59,560
..everything collapsed.
1017
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,000
Well, he looked so well,
nobody thought he was ill,
1018
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,000
but he had, unfortunately, hepatitis.
1019
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,120
And in a matter of three months
he wasn't here any more.
1020
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:24,960
I was often quite down.
It wasn't easy.
1021
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:29,640
It was very, very hard to overcome,
to live with it.
1022
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:34,280
And I think for ten years
I lived like...
1023
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:36,240
in a nightmare, you know.
1024
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,800
I couldn't believe that he had gone.
1025
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:47,040
I still spoke in "we" not "I",
you know.
1026
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:48,760
So...
1027
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,480
But I had to come to terms
with what had happened.
1028
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,680
Freda's husband hadn't made a will,
1029
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:07,080
so now she had to bring up
her two daughters
1030
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,000
in real financial hardship.
1031
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:15,640
Instead of living in a grand house,
1032
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:19,920
they lived here in a small flat,
with no central heating.
1033
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,680
We didn't have
an awful lot of money,
1034
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,600
when we was children,
to throw around.
1035
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,200
I think we were self-conscious
about asking for things,
1036
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,000
because times had been tough,
1037
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:38,120
and times before
had been even tougher.
1038
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:39,960
Are these small enough, Sandra?
1039
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,360
I'm sure it's fine.
1040
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:43,920
They'll be very nice.
1041
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,360
'She would tell us
things about people's bravery,
1042
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:49,720
'or her escape attempts,
1043
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,080
'to try not to traumatise us
too much.
1044
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:55,120
'It did have some effect.'
1045
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,600
I, particularly,
was always scared of the dark.
1046
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:00,520
You know, never knew
which nasty was hiding
1047
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,760
round a dark doorway or a corner.
1048
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,880
I must say, I must get the same
knife as you have here.
1049
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:10,320
All these things might be
an effect,
1050
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,960
or it might just have been me
and not liking the dark,
1051
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:17,360
of being a scaredy-cat,
but who knows?
1052
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:24,040
It's the advantage of having
a little bit of home grown food.
1053
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:27,240
'We were aware that Mum
had bad dreams,
1054
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,080
'because we'd wake up and hear it.
1055
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,520
'With hindsight, there is stuff.
1056
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,600
'She couldn't bear to have
the fridge or the cupboard empty,'
1057
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:38,840
because, the thought was,
1058
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:40,880
she was not going to be
hungry again,
1059
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,400
like they were hungry in the camps.
1060
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:54,080
For Freda herself,
there's another abiding legacy.
1061
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,120
'Cleanliness.
1062
01:21:57,120 --> 01:21:59,800
'Cleanliness -
I think we are over-clean...
1063
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:04,200
'..because we have been so dirty.'
1064
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:07,720
Are they good enough for compote?
Or are they too...
1065
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:09,400
No, they're all right for compote.
1066
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,760
'I think we are obsessed
by cleanliness.'
1067
01:22:15,480 --> 01:22:19,320
Because we are pleased
that we are so clean now.
1068
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:24,120
Come and play with Kitty.
1069
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:25,680
Here.
1070
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,400
She likes it.
1071
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,840
Even now, so many years after
the end of the war,
1072
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,160
one of Freda's granddaughters
1073
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:38,120
thinks she can still detect
the influence of the past.
1074
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,400
'Oh, it certainly defines her,
very much so.'
1075
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:44,160
I suspect it's probably brought
out character traits
1076
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:46,320
that were there anyway,
1077
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,280
but it's certainly brought them
to the fore.
1078
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:52,040
No?
1079
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,080
No? Had enough of that?
1080
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:57,680
I suppose the determination,
stubbornness,
1081
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:02,400
very much single-minded
about getting something done.
1082
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:06,600
Equally, the kind of putting on
the right image,
1083
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,280
so always wanting to be
well-presented,
1084
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:11,560
do well, look well.
1085
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,000
I know I have a remarkable
grandmother,
1086
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:18,880
not only because of her agility,
her sprightliness for her age,
1087
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:21,400
but kind of
her personal experiences,
1088
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:22,920
her life story.
1089
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:28,880
At the age of 91...
1090
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,280
I do not tell you my story
in bitterness...
1091
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:33,680
..Freda still regularly talks
to schoolchildren
1092
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:36,560
about her experience
during the war,
1093
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,560
and the lessons that she thinks
should be taken from it.
1094
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:44,440
Your children, and their children,
1095
01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:49,080
need to understand that these kind
of things happened
1096
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:55,200
and, most importantly, you and they
need to counter this intolerance,
1097
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:57,480
prejudice and hatred.
1098
01:23:57,480 --> 01:24:03,400
Yes, we hope that by conveying
our personal experiences first-hand
1099
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:08,160
we can help to put across real
stories to you, who are the future.
1100
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:25,080
There's been an unexpected
benefit for Freda
1101
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:28,120
as a result of talking in public
about her past.
1102
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:32,120
She no longer suffers nightmares.
1103
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,640
No longer dreams of being trapped in
one of the crematoria of Auschwitz.
1104
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,040
And those who have heard
her stories,
1105
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:46,720
not least her own grandchildren,
have benefited as well.
1106
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:50,160
This appalling thing
happened to her,
1107
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,840
and she, being a normal person
just like we are,
1108
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:56,280
managed to find extraordinary
strength and perseverance.
1109
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:59,160
And it's the strength
and the determination
1110
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:02,200
and the willpower
which is extraordinary.
1111
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:05,480
That she survived -
there is now 12 of us,
1112
01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:07,680
grandchildren
and great-grandchildren.
1113
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:10,520
THEY CHAT
1114
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,760
We realise how close we were
1115
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:16,360
to not being here.
1116
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:19,640
So, yeah, it makes us appreciate
1117
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:21,800
our grandmother quite a lot.
1118
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:25,000
What's this one?
SHE GASPS
1119
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:26,320
Oh!
1120
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:27,720
Oh! Ah!
1121
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,040
For her own grandchildren
and great-grandchildren,
1122
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:34,120
Freda has one final message.
1123
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:38,200
I would say, personally,
they should have a happy life.
1124
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,640
And they should be tolerant.
1125
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:43,960
And they should make sure
1126
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,520
that if anything like that should
happen again,
1127
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:48,920
you know, they should watch out.
1128
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:52,400
They should remember who they are.
1129
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,320
They should live up to it.
1130
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,400
Survivors like Freda
endured their time in Auschwitz,
1131
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:16,120
were liberated, and then tried to
build a new life after the war.
1132
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:23,000
But the vast majority of the people
the Nazis sent here
1133
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,600
were touched by Auschwitz
in a different way.
1134
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:34,560
Around 1,100,000 people
never left here alive.
1135
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:40,560
These innocent men, women
and children
1136
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,840
suffered the more usual
fate of those sent to Auschwitz.
1137
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:47,880
They were murdered by the Nazis.
93053
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