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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,580 --> 00:00:06,500 This programme contains very strong language. 2 00:00:08,460 --> 00:00:12,700 Jean-Michel was going to make things happen in the creative space 3 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:14,340 by any means necessary. 4 00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:19,700 He was this kid that had taken New York by storm. 5 00:00:33,060 --> 00:00:37,500 This work that's just screaming revolutionary intentions. 6 00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:43,980 I'd never seen a black artist with this kind of unbelievable talent 7 00:00:43,980 --> 00:00:45,860 and unbelievable charisma. 8 00:00:45,860 --> 00:00:48,740 So they have this image of me, you know, wild monkey man. 9 00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:51,940 Whatever the BLEEP they think. 10 00:00:51,940 --> 00:00:56,420 We went from total poverty to having so much money 11 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:59,380 that we didn't know what to do with it. 12 00:01:01,180 --> 00:01:02,700 There was a lot of resentment, 13 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:08,380 there was a lot of envy and it had definitely had a racist edge to it. 14 00:01:08,380 --> 00:01:11,980 Whether one regards themselves as an artist or a black artist, 15 00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:13,780 it never stops being complicated. 16 00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:16,740 $69 million. 17 00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:20,100 We're going to produce him, we're going to market him. 18 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,260 I'm selling on this side of the room. 19 00:01:22,260 --> 00:01:24,020 It's Yuki's bidder, fair warning. 20 00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:26,220 We are going to cannibalise him. 21 00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:29,260 And selling for $98 million. 22 00:01:29,260 --> 00:01:31,940 Thank you, Yuki. Congratulations. 23 00:01:34,180 --> 00:01:38,460 As his sister, almost 30 years later, I continue to be saddened 24 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:42,100 by the fact that my brother isn't still here. 25 00:01:44,140 --> 00:01:48,780 I think if you want to know what there is to know about Jean-Michel, 26 00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:50,220 the place to go is to his work. 27 00:02:06,820 --> 00:02:09,300 Of course there is. Yeah, of course there is. 28 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:10,820 Tell me about the anger as well. 29 00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:26,340 Mm. 30 00:02:28,620 --> 00:02:29,620 Um. 31 00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:34,460 You're on top of the world. 32 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:37,780 I mean, I like the way, you know, 33 00:02:37,780 --> 00:02:42,060 I hear we're doing some work together and you paint me out. 34 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:43,420 When do I paint you out? 35 00:02:43,420 --> 00:02:46,740 I mean, everything I've done, you've painted me out. Where? Well... 36 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:48,260 Where? Just... Where? 37 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:01,780 What's your earliest, most vivid childhood memory? 38 00:03:01,780 --> 00:03:04,580 Probably getting hit by a car, I guess. 39 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:07,020 How did that happen? I was playing on the street. 40 00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:08,820 How old were you? I was seven. 41 00:03:08,820 --> 00:03:10,900 Seven or eight years old. 42 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:15,100 We lived in Brooklyn, we lived in Flatbush, 43 00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:18,060 and Jean-Michel was playing outside when he was seven... 44 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,260 ..with a group of friends, they were playing stick ball. 45 00:03:22,260 --> 00:03:25,460 My mother asked me to go out and get him for dinner, which I did. 46 00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:27,580 He came running across the street, 47 00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:30,580 forgot something and turned around to go back. 48 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:36,260 As he was running across the street, a car came around the corner. 49 00:03:45,580 --> 00:03:48,300 He was in the hospital for a really, really long time. 50 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,900 One of the gifts that my mother brought to him 51 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:53,940 was the book Gray's Anatomy. 52 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:58,860 She wanted him to have the opportunity to see his own body 53 00:03:58,860 --> 00:04:03,460 as it related to the way it had to be reconstructed. 54 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:07,020 His spleen was removed. 55 00:04:11,860 --> 00:04:15,460 That was a book that was highly influential for him. 56 00:04:15,460 --> 00:04:20,740 My father played music from the moment that he came home from work 57 00:04:20,740 --> 00:04:22,780 until he went to bed. 58 00:04:22,780 --> 00:04:26,740 And he played all different genres. 59 00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:31,900 Jazz was a big influence but he also played classical and Donna Summer. 60 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:36,660 Our mom took us to museums. 61 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:38,660 NEWSREEL: For the schoolchildren of Brooklyn, 62 00:04:38,660 --> 00:04:42,260 these visits to the museum are creating an awareness of art 63 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:44,420 and its development through the centuries. 64 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:49,860 Jean-Michel was our older brother. 65 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:56,580 He was incredibly mischievous. 66 00:05:00,140 --> 00:05:02,780 He was incredibly creative. 67 00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:04,020 He always drew. 68 00:05:06,380 --> 00:05:10,340 You don't envision that your brother would be famous 69 00:05:10,340 --> 00:05:15,980 but it is always something that he felt that he would be. 70 00:05:15,980 --> 00:05:19,620 I also believe that his creative influence just came from inside, 71 00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:22,100 I think he just came here that way. 72 00:05:28,260 --> 00:05:30,380 PLAYS JAZZ MUSIC 73 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:37,980 The city looked big, I felt big, because I was part of the landscape. 74 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:39,780 I'm an artist. 75 00:05:39,780 --> 00:05:42,580 When you tell people that, they usually say, 76 00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:43,500 "What's your medium?" 77 00:05:44,980 --> 00:05:47,260 I usually say, "Extra large." 78 00:05:49,340 --> 00:05:50,540 Jean-Michel left home 79 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:53,980 because he had something that was burning inside of him. 80 00:05:53,980 --> 00:05:57,140 He did whatever he needed to do in order to be a painter 81 00:05:57,140 --> 00:06:00,900 and in order to be an artist and in order to express himself. 82 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:03,500 And I think it takes a tremendous amount of balls to do that. 83 00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:09,820 New York City from the mid-70s 84 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:12,020 up to the early '80s 85 00:06:12,020 --> 00:06:14,620 was a creative paradise. 86 00:06:18,380 --> 00:06:22,220 New York was falling apart, going bankrupt. 87 00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:24,300 The straight people were all leaving, 88 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:28,700 so all the crazy artists flocked here. 89 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:32,740 The time was electric. 90 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:36,060 Anything felt possible. 91 00:06:38,220 --> 00:06:40,260 Very inexpensive rents. 92 00:06:40,260 --> 00:06:42,100 I was able to live 93 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:46,060 for $80 a month. 94 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:54,620 Like almost everyone who was living downtown in the late 1970s, 95 00:06:54,620 --> 00:07:01,860 we were intrigued by the remarkable conceptual graffiti of SAMO. 96 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:05,980 Even in my own building, there was the SAMO graffiti. 97 00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:08,020 Right by the door. 98 00:07:08,020 --> 00:07:10,500 I thought, this must be a street philosopher, 99 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:15,540 somebody who is writing multiple choice questions on the wall, 100 00:07:15,540 --> 00:07:20,300 asking profound questions about values. 101 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:22,420 SAMO was everywhere. 102 00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:24,940 It was on all the buildings, 103 00:07:24,940 --> 00:07:26,860 I was thrilled by it. 104 00:07:28,580 --> 00:07:33,940 Everyone downtown had seen SAMO tags. 105 00:07:33,940 --> 00:07:39,020 I can remember first moving to New York and seeing lines like, 106 00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:42,220 "A pin drops like a pungent odour, copyright SAMO." 107 00:07:44,060 --> 00:07:47,500 There was a lot of conversation downtown - "Who is SAMO?" 108 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:49,740 People claimed to have seen SAMO. 109 00:07:51,820 --> 00:07:55,300 I first met Jean-Michel in the fall of '76 110 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:58,660 because that's when I first went to City-As-School. 111 00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:03,500 Me and Jean-Michel and other students 112 00:08:03,500 --> 00:08:07,260 that were interested in writing created a high school newspaper. 113 00:08:07,260 --> 00:08:13,140 And Jean-Michel wrote a brilliant essay about an ideal religion 114 00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:17,740 that would... just filled all the needs and he named it SAMO. 115 00:08:17,740 --> 00:08:20,660 SAMO was part of the slang back then 116 00:08:20,660 --> 00:08:24,260 where you would hear elderly black guys talking to each other 117 00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:25,940 and say, "Hey, what's up?" 118 00:08:25,940 --> 00:08:29,820 And the other guy would answer, "Samo, samo." 119 00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:34,060 In other words, the same old shit or the same old thing, whatever. 120 00:08:34,060 --> 00:08:36,700 And that's really where we borrowed that from, 121 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:38,900 that's absolutely where we borrowed it from. 122 00:08:40,460 --> 00:08:42,180 Me being the graffiti artist, 123 00:08:42,180 --> 00:08:48,100 I liked that format and we started to write SAMOs using that format. 124 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:52,100 And then they became like SAMO as an alternative to God. 125 00:08:52,100 --> 00:08:54,220 So it now was this thing. 126 00:08:57,020 --> 00:09:01,420 I started going around with Jean-Michel with a Magic Marker 127 00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:05,900 and he would do the SAMO and I would do my Jetson thing. 128 00:09:08,380 --> 00:09:14,500 Al Diaz, there was a partnership, SAMO, was also hanging around. 129 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:18,460 I introduced him to Keith Haring, who I had met that same week. 130 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,820 When I first arrived at the School of Visual Arts in '78, 131 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:27,300 not everyone hanging out there was actually a student. 132 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:31,940 Jean-Michel was not a student but he wanted to meet artists, 133 00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:33,980 he wanted to be hanging around artists, 134 00:09:33,980 --> 00:09:36,660 so that was a natural place to just hang out. 135 00:09:40,660 --> 00:09:41,900 I think there was 136 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:44,260 a very self-conscious dimension to what he did. 137 00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:48,220 You know, he didn't do SAMO, his tag line graffiti, 138 00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:49,940 he didn't do it just any place. 139 00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:51,220 He did it real close to Soho. 140 00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:56,940 It was a successful hype project. 141 00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:59,620 It is the Canal Zone and it's happening here and now. 142 00:09:59,620 --> 00:10:02,540 If you're lost, you can find yourself right here, 143 00:10:02,540 --> 00:10:04,020 right now in the Canal Zone. 144 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:11,780 I first met Jean-Michel Basquiat April 29th, 1979. 145 00:10:11,780 --> 00:10:16,380 It was the night of the Canal Zone party thrown by myself, 146 00:10:16,380 --> 00:10:20,060 a British artist named Stan Peskett and Fab 5 Freddy. 147 00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:22,340 It was called Canal Zone 148 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:26,580 and it was kind of our first Soho downtown party. 149 00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:33,900 We were going to have a party 150 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:37,740 that would introduce aerosol graffiti artists from uptown 151 00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:39,860 to the downtown fine art scene. 152 00:10:43,220 --> 00:10:47,060 Jean-Michel showed up. He was SAMO at the time, he was known as SAMO. 153 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:49,740 Jean-Michel came out of the shadows. 154 00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:51,660 I didn't know who he was. 155 00:10:51,660 --> 00:10:54,380 He said, "I'd like to do something as well." 156 00:10:54,380 --> 00:10:57,220 And I said, "Sure," and I put a spray can in his hand, 157 00:10:57,220 --> 00:10:59,260 "There's a wall, do it." 158 00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:05,700 It was magic. Suddenly, everybody kind of went crazy. 159 00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:11,500 All of a sudden, someone, I hear voices, very excited, 160 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:16,180 and I walk over and I see someone spray painting on the wall. 161 00:11:16,180 --> 00:11:20,180 He did one of his multiple-choice SAMOs. 162 00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:24,700 It was like, oh, my God. This is SAMO. 163 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,500 SAMO. S-A-M-O. Come on, you've seen it on the walls. 164 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:30,980 Everyone, especially in the village. This gentleman right here is SAMO. 165 00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:34,900 Nobody knew who SAMO was, he was totally enigmatic. 166 00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:36,820 It was like a Banksy figure. 167 00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:44,420 And I immediately ran over and grabbed his arm and I said, 168 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:47,140 "I've been looking for you." And he looked at me and he had, 169 00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:51,300 like, the most beautiful smile, he said, "You have?" 170 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:54,540 And I said, "Yes." And he said, "Well, why are you here?" 171 00:11:54,540 --> 00:11:56,820 I said, "I live here." 172 00:11:56,820 --> 00:11:58,780 When we went into my room, 173 00:11:58,780 --> 00:12:03,460 I had books and music that he knew and loved 174 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:05,860 and it's like an automatic pass. 175 00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:11,180 I used to take baseball cards and paint them with white-out, 176 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:12,380 paint the faces out. 177 00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:14,860 He really liked what I was doing. 178 00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:17,500 Plus I had a room. 179 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:20,740 We clicked and that was amazing and he said, 180 00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:22,140 "I want to make postcards with you." 181 00:12:24,220 --> 00:12:28,060 We went to photo booths and got our picture taken and, like, 182 00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:31,340 I would do something and then he would come and do it. 183 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,580 And we'd get to the point where we both agreed, 184 00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:35,540 "OK, that's really good. Let's use that." 185 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:40,660 We were going out on the street, we did it every day, 186 00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:44,900 and we'd make, you know, sometimes we'd make, like, $15 187 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:46,140 and that was a bonanza. 188 00:12:50,820 --> 00:12:54,380 He would shave his head on the street with a razor. 189 00:12:54,380 --> 00:12:57,060 People would be like, "Oh, my God. What is that?" 190 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:07,580 We'd come out of Jamie Canvas after making another bunch 191 00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:12,740 of colour Xeroxes and we're walking down the street talking 192 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:17,620 and Jean-Michel looks in the window of this brand-new restaurant called 193 00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:23,820 WPA and sees Andy Warhol and Henry Geldzahler sitting at a table. 194 00:13:28,180 --> 00:13:32,820 Jean-Michel grabs my arm, and says, "Oh, my God. It's Andy." 195 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:34,980 And I was like, "Oh, my God." 196 00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:38,740 He said, "You stay here. They're fags." He goes in... 197 00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:42,660 ..comes back out after ten minutes. 198 00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:44,100 I'm waiting out on the sidewalk. 199 00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:46,820 And I said, "What took so long?" 200 00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:49,380 He said, "Well, they only had a five 201 00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:52,540 "and they needed to get change of the five." 202 00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:54,380 And I said, "How many did they buy?" 203 00:13:54,380 --> 00:13:59,300 Two. So they bought one that said, "Stupid games, bad ideas," 204 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:03,780 and another one that was a colour Xerox of a pair of sunglasses 205 00:14:03,780 --> 00:14:07,780 that we had splattered white-out on and re-Xeroxed. 206 00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:10,860 He loved Andy 207 00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:13,100 and to meet him in person was, I think, 208 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:15,460 a really important moment for him. 209 00:14:15,460 --> 00:14:19,140 Andy Warhol bought something that he made 210 00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:20,740 and that was amazing for him. 211 00:14:26,420 --> 00:14:27,900 It was like, "Oh, my God, 212 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:33,020 "you not only met him but he actually bought something from you, 213 00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:35,180 "he purchased...?" This is amazing. 214 00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:40,900 Andy was like our hero figure. 215 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:44,340 He redefined what the role of an artist could be. 216 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:45,540 Say cheese. 217 00:14:50,660 --> 00:14:54,700 He had told me that he sold a postcard to Andy Warhol, 218 00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:56,660 and he was really excited. 219 00:14:56,660 --> 00:14:59,900 I began to understand that he wanted fame. 220 00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:00,980 He really wanted fame. 221 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:06,420 Probably, you know, in the same week 222 00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:10,460 he goes on the Glenn O'Brien Show as SAMO. 223 00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:12,780 So now he's become SAMO. 224 00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:18,900 I mean, it was us and now he had become the face for SAMO. 225 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:25,180 Tonight, we're lucky enough to have with us probably the most 226 00:15:25,180 --> 00:15:27,620 language oriented of all graffiti artists in New York, 227 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:29,660 Sammo, and his associate. 228 00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:31,740 It's SAMO. SAMO, sorry. It's Mr SAMO. 229 00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:33,020 It's my personal signature. 230 00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:35,780 Sorry, Mr SAMO. Well, you know, you see it written on the walls 231 00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:37,580 and you don't know how to pronounce it. 232 00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:39,780 And do you write something different every time 233 00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:41,300 or do you write the, you know...? 234 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,420 I've written the same thing before, just... 235 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,380 It all depends, you know, like how inspired I feel. 236 00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:55,020 At a certain point, you saw the graffiti, "SAMO is dead." 237 00:15:55,020 --> 00:15:59,100 So Jean, here he is killing SAMO, 238 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,380 cos he's the only one that ever wrote, "SAMO is dead," 239 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:03,500 I never wrote, "SAMO is dead." 240 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:08,100 And as a result, it damaged our relationship. 241 00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:15,340 That was the point where Jean-Michel began to assert himself 242 00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:18,020 as the artist Jean-Michel Basquiat. 243 00:16:18,020 --> 00:16:19,380 I never went to art school. 244 00:16:21,060 --> 00:16:23,620 I failed the art courses that I did take in school. 245 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:30,660 I just looked at a lot of things and that's what... 246 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:36,060 That's how I think I learned about art, by looking at it. 247 00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:45,020 When we met in the late '70s, 248 00:16:45,020 --> 00:16:47,660 one of the things that made us become really good friends 249 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:52,140 was we both spent a lot of time going to museums as young kids. 250 00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:59,060 And somehow the idea popped up, like, 251 00:16:59,060 --> 00:17:03,100 let's start Museum Club, and Wednesday was the day 252 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,740 when we would hop in a cab and head up to the Metropolitan Museum. 253 00:17:27,260 --> 00:17:31,260 Jean-Michel and I would often act like we were art students 254 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:33,580 when we would come here. 255 00:17:33,580 --> 00:17:36,780 We'd have our little sketch pads, acting like we were sketching. 256 00:17:39,940 --> 00:17:41,820 These are all school of Caravaggio, by the way. 257 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:45,340 Young black man in the painting up there, nice. 258 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:49,940 Caravaggio, he's just so great. 259 00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:52,060 Me and Jean-Michel talked about this. 260 00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:54,900 Like, we dug him and we did some reading about him 261 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,540 and the fact that he, like, carried a sword 262 00:17:57,540 --> 00:17:59,780 was pretty bad boy for that time period. 263 00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:02,580 You know, like, you see it in movies, people carrying swords, 264 00:18:02,580 --> 00:18:04,780 you just think it's a regular thing, 265 00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:06,620 but if you carried a sword, 266 00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:08,100 you were gangster, 267 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,060 you carried it because you knew you were going to use it 268 00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:13,620 or you were not afraid to use it, so, 269 00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:15,460 some real bad boy business going on. 270 00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:21,060 This guy invented creative lighting. 271 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:22,940 It's just amazing, you know. 272 00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:25,540 Chiaroscuro. Light to dark, baby, simple. 273 00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:27,340 Simple stuff, basic stuff. 274 00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:31,980 Pretty good crown he's got on there, huh? 275 00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:34,900 You know, the crown was a significant part of early graffiti, 276 00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:39,380 you would put a crown over your name if you felt you were worthy. 277 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:42,180 Jean would get a good kick out of that guy's crown. 278 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:50,740 This is Autumn Rhythm, so this is a really famous Pollock, 279 00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:54,620 and I remember Jean and I looking at it, 280 00:18:54,620 --> 00:18:58,260 appreciating it and also talking about the fact 281 00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:01,900 that, at this time in the early '50s, when these paintings 282 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:06,980 were being made, Jackson Pollock's studio was in the Village 283 00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:08,900 and he was going to jazz clubs, 284 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:11,660 and this is something that's not often talked about, 285 00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:14,540 the fact that the abstract expressionists were developing 286 00:19:14,540 --> 00:19:18,100 at the same time as bebop music and the improvisational nature 287 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:19,380 that was going on in there. 288 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:24,860 Because of the racism at that time, 289 00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:28,540 a lot of critics and art historians wouldn't really elaborate 290 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:32,020 on the fact that, I mean, you can see the improvisation going on 291 00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:35,220 and, like, I remember Jean-Michel and I talking about that 292 00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:36,700 right here in this building. 293 00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:44,380 I remember talking to Jean about how 294 00:19:44,380 --> 00:19:47,860 the insides of the subway cars at that time were just blitzed 295 00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:49,460 with tag over tag over tag. 296 00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:53,100 There was an unmistakable connection between Pollock and, interestingly, 297 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,300 this Franz Kline over my shoulder. 298 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,380 Like that broad brush stroke, 299 00:19:57,380 --> 00:20:00,780 that calligraphic energy just was just crazy. 300 00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:03,060 Undeniable, you know. 301 00:20:03,060 --> 00:20:04,020 Ah, man. 302 00:20:15,980 --> 00:20:19,540 This is cool. Like, I remember when me and Jean would come here 303 00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:22,180 to Museum Club, you know, we had to talk about Pablo 304 00:20:22,180 --> 00:20:25,420 but what's really interesting, particularly with this piece, 305 00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:28,060 you can see the Cubist period had unleashed 306 00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:30,820 and that whole period was a break-out moment 307 00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:33,740 when Picasso got hip to what Africans were doing 308 00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:36,140 and how they were depicting the image. 309 00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:40,820 It just broke the whole mould of 310 00:20:40,820 --> 00:20:45,100 European artists trying to recreate exactly how the image looked, 311 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,180 perspective, all that kind of stuff, just smashed the game, 312 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:49,420 broke it wide open. 313 00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:52,220 Once again, that African influence, you know, 314 00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:54,860 you need to recognise, baby, from the motherland. 315 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:02,020 Dora Maar, you know, 316 00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:03,580 she was a hot one. 317 00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:06,820 Can't you tell? 318 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:13,620 Back on the street again. 319 00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:15,940 The Lower East Side. 320 00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:19,220 Looked like a war zone. 321 00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:21,220 Like we dropped the bomb on ourselves. 322 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:23,460 But it was OK. 323 00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:28,340 The star of Downtown 81 is Jean-Michel Basquiat. 324 00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:36,420 And it's not a documentary, like a lot of people think it is. 325 00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:41,580 It's a fairy tale of what our life was back then. 326 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:43,420 Come on, let me see your painting. 327 00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:46,300 It's a story of a struggling artist who goes around the city 328 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:48,860 to sell his artwork to pay the rent. 329 00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:50,700 This is really nice. 330 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:52,340 Thanks. 331 00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:54,780 You want to sell it? You want to buy it? 332 00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:58,860 I'd like to buy one but I can't even afford your paintings. 333 00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:03,540 You have to realise he really didn't have money and no job 334 00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:09,780 and we bought him a lot of canvas and we needed that painting 335 00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:11,420 for the story. 336 00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:13,260 And so the first paintings he did 337 00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:15,460 were really for the purpose of the film. 338 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,140 Hey, man, that's private property. 339 00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:25,060 Hey, my man, I'm a taxpayer, I can paint anywhere I want to paint. 340 00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:30,220 They chose to focus on Jean-Michel as the kind of star of this movie 341 00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:35,180 and we all had little scenes and cameo scenes in this little snapshot 342 00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:36,940 of the world we lived in. 343 00:22:36,940 --> 00:22:39,700 He's serious, man. You want to check him out. 344 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:45,140 The pre-gentrified, gritty, grimy, extra fun New York City. 345 00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:50,980 # Fab 5 is in the house and 346 00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:54,300 # Jean-Michel is in the house. # 347 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,660 I met Jean-Michel Basquiat in 1981. 348 00:22:57,660 --> 00:23:03,420 He was working on Downtown 81, the film. 349 00:23:03,420 --> 00:23:05,820 So he told me he was living 350 00:23:05,820 --> 00:23:07,500 in the production offices 351 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,980 for the film, which was a storefront somewhere. 352 00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:14,780 He very quickly moved into my apartment. 353 00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:17,300 It just happened. 354 00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:21,860 I don't feel entirely responsible. 355 00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:26,740 He, erm... 356 00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:27,820 ..just moved in. 357 00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:34,700 We both were biethnic, bicultural. 358 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:37,980 I'm half Palestinian and half English. 359 00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:42,780 He was half Puerto Rican and half Haitian. 360 00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:49,940 We both had very authoritarian, proud fathers that were tough. 361 00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:57,900 He stuttered a little. His mom had been institutionalised 362 00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,540 and that was a very sad point for him. 363 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:04,380 And it made him terribly sad to tell me. 364 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:07,020 And he would stutter even more when he talked about her. 365 00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:14,380 I had come from Canada at the age of 20 to the East Village 366 00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:15,620 to be an artist. 367 00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:27,140 Hey, man. Hey, man. Later. All right. 368 00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:32,220 Every artist, whatever you were, you were also in a band, you had to be. 369 00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:34,420 If you weren't in a band, you were, like, lame. 370 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:41,140 Jean-Michel Basquiat made this decision 371 00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:43,820 that we were going to start a band. 372 00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:46,180 Jean wanted me to be a part of that band as well. 373 00:24:46,180 --> 00:24:48,660 I showed up to the first rehearsal. 374 00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:51,380 I was going to do scat rapping or whatever, but I was like... 375 00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:53,100 I fell back, it wasn't for me. 376 00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:56,780 And we were just jumping around with names 377 00:24:56,780 --> 00:24:59,060 and we really weren't sure what it was 378 00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:03,620 and then one day Jean stops and says, "I know the name now. 379 00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:07,820 "Gray." 380 00:25:09,380 --> 00:25:12,220 I believe the reason that it was spelt with an A, 381 00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:15,020 it was named after Gray's Anatomy, which was a book 382 00:25:15,020 --> 00:25:17,980 that was very inspiring for Jean-Michel Basquiat 383 00:25:17,980 --> 00:25:20,500 as a young child. He was hit by a car. 384 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:25,020 The music he made would create the collage aesthetic. 385 00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:27,540 It's there whether he's doing music, whether he's doing poetry, 386 00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:29,140 whether he's doing painting. 387 00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:37,140 Jean-Michel was painting or drawing 388 00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:38,100 constantly. 389 00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:47,540 There was a drive there that I've never really seen before. 390 00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:51,020 At that time, there were a lot of burned-out buildings 391 00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:52,620 in the East Village. 392 00:25:52,620 --> 00:25:55,100 He couldn't afford art supplies 393 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,180 so he would bring things from the street. 394 00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:05,180 He would bring doors, wooden doors, from these burned-out buildings, 395 00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:06,620 and he would paint on that. 396 00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:15,180 We would get in arguments. 397 00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:17,820 I was the one working and supporting both of us 398 00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:19,980 and he wasn't contributing. 399 00:26:19,980 --> 00:26:25,660 He would always answer my concerns 400 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:30,820 with the reassurance that he would be famous very soon 401 00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:33,820 and wealthy and that he would look after me. 402 00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:35,300 That would end the argument. 403 00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:36,500 I mean, what could I say? 404 00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:45,220 The first painting that he sold was to Debbie Harry from Blondie 405 00:26:45,220 --> 00:26:46,700 for $200. 406 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:48,700 # Fab 5 Freddie told me everybody's fly 407 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:50,980 # DJ's spinning I said, "My, my." # 408 00:26:50,980 --> 00:26:54,180 And that was a lot of money to us at that point 409 00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:57,380 so we went out to dinner in a Chinese restaurant 410 00:26:57,380 --> 00:26:59,060 on Second Avenue and... 411 00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:00,500 Just an ordinary restaurant, 412 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:04,500 but this was a real treat for us because we were so poor. 413 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,660 It was very special, and he was so happy and so proud. 414 00:27:10,580 --> 00:27:13,740 Jean-Michel's in the video, yeah. 415 00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:17,380 I had wanted Grandmaster Flash to come and be in the video 416 00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:19,660 for the part when she starts rapping. 417 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:21,420 She mentions me. 418 00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:23,220 "Fab 5 Freddy told me everybody's fly." 419 00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:25,700 And then she says, "DJ spinning, Flash is fast." 420 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,140 Flash didn't believe I really knew them at the time 421 00:27:28,140 --> 00:27:29,380 so he never showed up. 422 00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:30,940 So Jean-Michel was there, 423 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:33,820 I was like, "Yo, put Jean-Michel at the turntables. 424 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:36,060 # Fab 5 Freddy told me everybody's fly 425 00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:38,500 # DJ spinning I said, "My, my." # 426 00:27:50,860 --> 00:27:54,100 I saw the first works which Basquiat showed. 427 00:27:57,140 --> 00:27:58,940 It was a show called 428 00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:01,340 New York, New Wave, where Diego Cortez 429 00:28:01,340 --> 00:28:04,420 was the driving force and the main curator. 430 00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:05,540 That was 1981. 431 00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:09,140 Basquiat was given the main wall. 432 00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:13,420 How do you envision the future here for these artists? 433 00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:16,820 Do you think a lot of them are professionals or...? 434 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:19,660 I don't really worry about the word, 435 00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:21,740 I haven't worried about the word professionals. 436 00:28:21,740 --> 00:28:26,540 I mean, the important thing to me is building a sociology of elements 437 00:28:26,540 --> 00:28:27,820 that depict the scene. 438 00:28:31,420 --> 00:28:32,540 I went to PS1 439 00:28:32,540 --> 00:28:35,740 because I wanted to see the artists of New York. 440 00:28:40,860 --> 00:28:45,380 The work of Jean-Michel's paintings were particularly sophisticated. 441 00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:52,780 What interested me in his work immediately, 442 00:28:52,780 --> 00:28:54,980 they were a new visual language. 443 00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:05,180 I was Andy Warhol's dealer in exclusivity after 1965. 444 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:14,140 This painting was in the show of New York, New Wave 445 00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:17,980 and one of the biggest paintings, I think, was this, 446 00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:21,860 showing a cityscape of New York. 447 00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:24,700 There are the two World Trade Towers 448 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:28,940 and on the top I think it's an invented type of writing. 449 00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:35,780 It reminds me a little bit, I said, of works by Twombly. 450 00:29:35,780 --> 00:29:38,100 It's one of the 15 paintings I bought from Diego Cortez 451 00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:39,380 at that time. 452 00:29:51,140 --> 00:29:53,140 I didn't ask him to be in my gallery. 453 00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:54,820 He asked me to be in my gallery. 454 00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,420 And I said, "But my next group show doesn't have anything 455 00:29:59,420 --> 00:30:01,780 "to do with your work." Why? 456 00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:05,980 Because it's called Public Address and he said, "No, on the contrary, 457 00:30:05,980 --> 00:30:07,820 "I fit in it." 458 00:30:07,820 --> 00:30:12,020 He defended his point in a way that was extremely sophisticated 459 00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:16,820 for his age. He was so strong, the works that he presented, 460 00:30:16,820 --> 00:30:19,540 that I decided that the second part of the gallery 461 00:30:19,540 --> 00:30:20,820 was completely for him. 462 00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:26,580 I walked over to Annina's gallery, a couple of blocks from my loft, 463 00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:29,860 and I walked into the last room in Annina's gallery. 464 00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:36,060 Literally my hair stood up 465 00:30:36,060 --> 00:30:41,940 on my neck. It just had an electrifying impact on me. 466 00:30:43,540 --> 00:30:47,740 The one that's called Skull is almost anatomical 467 00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:49,540 but also with fierce eyes. 468 00:30:49,540 --> 00:30:54,100 The perspective, the colour, the intensity, just incredibly powerful. 469 00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:59,740 And I saw, I think, four or five paintings. 470 00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:06,100 I had never seen the work before, I'd never heard of the artist, 471 00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,980 I didn't even know that this artist was going to be in the show. 472 00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:10,740 I knew nothing. 473 00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:14,940 Annina at that point came out to greet me, and I said, "Wow, 474 00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:16,420 "how much are these paintings? 475 00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:20,500 "If you'll allow me to, I'll buy three of them." 476 00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:22,980 With the discount, it probably cost me about $9,000 477 00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:24,100 for the three of them. 478 00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:28,820 She says, "Would you like to meet the artist?" 479 00:31:28,820 --> 00:31:31,660 I'd just bought three paintings. I said, "Absolutely." 480 00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:35,220 I thought I was going to meet some old French guy when I heard the name 481 00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:38,420 and then I see this black guy sitting in her office 482 00:31:38,420 --> 00:31:42,140 with hair like, you know, if you've seen the photographs, 483 00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:49,140 and literally paint-stained jeans and smoking a big, fat joint. 484 00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:51,860 Right off the bat there was a rapport between us. 485 00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:59,060 Coming out of minimalism in its grids, 486 00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:02,380 this next generation Jean-Michel, 487 00:32:02,380 --> 00:32:04,500 a great example of, 488 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:06,380 blew that all up. 489 00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:10,860 And he didn't have any place to make a lot of paintings so he started to 490 00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:12,860 paint them in my basement downstairs. 491 00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:20,580 He was very productive and it was like he had a nine-to-five job 492 00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:22,380 that was very interesting. 493 00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:25,100 He would wake up early in the morning and go there 494 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,700 and then come home around five or six. 495 00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:33,820 I had a job at a gallery called Sperone Westwater Fischer. 496 00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:35,860 On my lunch hour Jean would say, 497 00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:39,500 "I'm painting in this basement, come visit." 498 00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:41,540 Jean would talk about 499 00:32:41,540 --> 00:32:45,740 France Klein or even Robert Motherwell, 500 00:32:45,740 --> 00:32:48,500 people that I was kind of amazed that he even knew about 501 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,540 since he hadn't been to art school. 502 00:32:51,540 --> 00:32:56,420 Jean was in awe of Cy Twombly and would talk about Cy Twombly. 503 00:32:57,620 --> 00:33:01,420 I said, "Jeann, you know, Cy Twombly is staying in the apartment 504 00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:03,020 "at the gallery where I work." 505 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,780 "I want to meet him. I want to meet him now. Can you take me there?" 506 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:12,100 I said, "Yeah, sure, I have the keys to the apartment. 507 00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:13,740 "Let's go meet him," 508 00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:16,140 so we walked over to the gallery and, you know, 509 00:33:16,140 --> 00:33:17,460 knocked on the apartment door. 510 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,860 This was during gallery hours. 511 00:33:19,860 --> 00:33:21,980 Cy Twombly opens the door. 512 00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:24,540 I said, "Cy, this is Jean-Michel Basquiat. 513 00:33:24,540 --> 00:33:28,260 "He really wants to meet you. He's a big fan of yours." 514 00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:31,500 And Jean was beginning to enter the apartment 515 00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:36,260 when one of the partners came up and said, "How did he get here? 516 00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:40,020 "Get him out now. Why is he here?" 517 00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:42,700 I said, "Well, he wants to meet Cy." 518 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:45,140 "No, no, no, that's not going to happen. 519 00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:48,500 "Now, I want, Brett, I want you to get him out immediately. 520 00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:49,980 "Did he take anything?" 521 00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:58,100 The word got out in the art world very quickly that there was 522 00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:01,340 a genius working in Annina's basement. 523 00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:06,820 But Jean-Michel, just hold on. 524 00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:10,660 I think I have to ask you, 525 00:34:10,660 --> 00:34:12,580 is this collage? 526 00:34:12,580 --> 00:34:14,220 It's called Slave Auction. 527 00:34:14,220 --> 00:34:17,580 A slave auction. In America, with the tobacco trade. 528 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:21,780 And this is a complete irony, you put a halo on top? 529 00:34:21,780 --> 00:34:23,980 He's a martyr, he's, like, dead, you know. 530 00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:30,340 It's like the boat, you know, this is a boat. 531 00:34:30,340 --> 00:34:33,260 The boat that brings them from Africa, you know? 532 00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:36,300 He's like, "Well, how much do I get for the slave here? 533 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:37,500 "How much do I get for him?" 534 00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:39,140 $50 for the slave, you know. 535 00:34:39,140 --> 00:34:40,580 And these, who are all those...? 536 00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:43,420 These are people who are bidding on slaves. That's another slave. 537 00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:51,500 People hear it was a kind of dungeon. 538 00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:57,220 There were all these pictures and rumours 539 00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:59,140 that she would keep him locked 540 00:34:59,140 --> 00:35:01,460 in the basement to make paintings. 541 00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:07,580 You know, for being a prison with a skylight and two windows, 542 00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:09,780 that's kind of nice. 543 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,980 The story that you're always being locked in the basement 544 00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:21,460 and ordered to paint? Oh... 545 00:35:21,460 --> 00:35:23,460 That's just some... 546 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:25,060 It has a nasty edge to it, you know? 547 00:35:25,060 --> 00:35:26,260 I was never locked anywhere. 548 00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:28,740 I mean... 549 00:35:30,140 --> 00:35:31,900 Oh, Christ. No, it's just... 550 00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:35,620 If I was white they would have said artist in residence 551 00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:38,180 rather than saying all that other stuff. You know? 552 00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:42,300 I didn't see any chains in Annina's basement when he worked there, 553 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,580 that he seemed to be thriving, 554 00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:48,540 although he was interrupted a lot of times when they would bring 555 00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:53,020 Mick Jagger down to look and buy paintings from him. 556 00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:55,740 I told him, "Look, I know what's going on, 557 00:35:55,740 --> 00:35:57,460 "this is a good spot to work." 558 00:35:57,460 --> 00:36:01,020 He didn't have an adequate studio space at that time 559 00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:04,060 but I definitely told him, "I think you should raise up out of here." 560 00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:11,380 I said, "I will help you to rent an apartment," which I did, 561 00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:15,660 in Crosby Street, "and I will pay the rent, 562 00:36:15,660 --> 00:36:19,660 "which I will take out of the sales," which is what I did. 563 00:36:19,660 --> 00:36:23,140 I gave him 50% of whatever I sold. 564 00:36:23,140 --> 00:36:25,980 You know, if I sold a painting for $10,000, 565 00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:26,780 I gave him five. 566 00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:37,180 In the period of 1981 to 1982... 567 00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:41,780 ..Jean-Michel was incredibly productive. 568 00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:47,660 Perhaps 250 paintings. 569 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:51,980 At least 500 drawings. 570 00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:00,820 He almost always had music on when he was working. 571 00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:02,740 It was just very intuitive. 572 00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:09,780 He would work on several paintings at one time. 573 00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:13,340 He would paint the background or he might paint one line 574 00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:15,860 and then he would go over to another and paint something 575 00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:20,420 and then come back to this one and scratch it out or put words on it, 576 00:37:20,420 --> 00:37:22,140 so it was a constant movement. 577 00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:23,260 It was like a dance. 578 00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:26,980 It was almost like he was channelling something. 579 00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:41,300 He did many paintings, one after another, beautiful. 580 00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:47,180 In the structure of these paintings, 581 00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:50,540 there was a direct connection to No Wave music. 582 00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:57,420 Seeming chaos that you hear in the best No Wave music, 583 00:37:57,420 --> 00:38:01,460 Jean-Michel was able to articulate in the structure of his paintings. 584 00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:12,580 They reflect a deep understanding of avant-garde writing and poetry. 585 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:16,780 The cut-up technique of William Burroughs, 586 00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:22,380 to slice up and reconstitute writing into this new structure. 587 00:38:25,420 --> 00:38:28,500 The zeitgeist was out there on the street. 588 00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:36,220 The hip-hop community was bringing all this flash of the spirit, 589 00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:41,260 all this colour and movement and kind of breaking with form. 590 00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:46,780 Jean-Michel was also trying to channel the energy of his generation 591 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:50,140 into his canvases and into these gallery spaces. 592 00:38:55,620 --> 00:39:02,620 Jean-Michel's work lays out so many of these essential innovations 593 00:39:02,620 --> 00:39:08,060 in the structure of art, music and writing at the end of the '70s, 594 00:39:08,060 --> 00:39:09,700 beginning of the '80s. 595 00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:13,380 They were new but they had the classicism of modern art. 596 00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:16,420 I never know how to really describe, except maybe... 597 00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:19,020 I don't know how to describe my work. 598 00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:20,580 It's like asking somebody, you know, 599 00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:22,540 asking Miles, "How does your horn sound?" 600 00:39:22,540 --> 00:39:25,180 You know, I don't think he could really tell you, you know, 601 00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:26,740 why he played. 602 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:33,260 You know, why he played this at this point in the music or just... 603 00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:37,980 it's sort of on automatic, you know, most of the time. 604 00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:40,580 What this work had was 605 00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:44,460 an astonishing directness 606 00:39:44,460 --> 00:39:47,340 but part of the discourse around the work 607 00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:50,900 was this unfortunate primitivist interpretation. 608 00:39:53,420 --> 00:39:56,820 He was a sophisticated New York City kid 609 00:39:56,820 --> 00:39:58,980 and it was part of the myth of 610 00:39:58,980 --> 00:40:02,340 the noble savage, of the raw talent. 611 00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:05,580 What it allowed certain people to do was to throw up their hands 612 00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:08,260 in wonder and say, "Here's this miracle artist, 613 00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:11,780 "we never expected anybody coming from where he comes from 614 00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:14,900 "to be this good." The term primitive is purely racist. 615 00:40:17,180 --> 00:40:21,820 Annina proceeded to offer Jean-Michel his first solo 616 00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:25,100 New York gallery show in February 1982. 617 00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:32,220 Everyone was just over the moon when they saw the work 618 00:40:32,220 --> 00:40:34,540 and that show at Annina's. 619 00:40:35,620 --> 00:40:37,820 Everything sold out immediately. 620 00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:43,660 It just kind of all took off all at once. 621 00:40:43,660 --> 00:40:47,980 It was just everything that he had dreamed of. 622 00:40:47,980 --> 00:40:50,540 I'm just happy that I was able to stick it out 623 00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:52,900 and get things I wanted. After... 624 00:40:56,580 --> 00:40:58,780 I felt like I was right, you know what I mean? 625 00:41:00,260 --> 00:41:04,300 All of a sudden we went from total poverty 626 00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:09,780 to having so much money that we didn't know what to do with it. 627 00:41:09,780 --> 00:41:13,060 There was money all over the house, hidden, 628 00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:16,260 thousands of dollars because he didn't have a bank account. 629 00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:21,340 We would have lavish parties with caviar, 630 00:41:21,340 --> 00:41:24,780 with Cristal champagne, with cocaine. 631 00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:31,660 When everyone in the art world starts looking at you 632 00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:34,220 with expectations, you have to produce. 633 00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:36,780 Drugs helped him, I think, 634 00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:41,420 to work harder and longer hours and simultaneously 635 00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:43,820 and made his mind free. 636 00:41:43,820 --> 00:41:46,980 It might have helped him to have more endurance during the work. 637 00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:52,660 Collectors were coming to the loft to look at the work 638 00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:56,300 before it was even finished and it was very frustrating 639 00:41:56,300 --> 00:42:00,020 because often they would want the painting to match their couch. 640 00:42:02,580 --> 00:42:06,220 I saw him do things on Crosby Street, 641 00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:09,460 there were these collectors who came in and brought him 642 00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:13,500 a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. 643 00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,620 And he was so insulted that he told them basically, 644 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:21,260 "Get out, get out now, I'm not selling anything to you," 645 00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:24,100 and as they left, he was on the second floor, 646 00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,700 he took this bucket of chicken and went over and dumped it 647 00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:30,940 on the heads of these people leaving his studio. 648 00:42:35,420 --> 00:42:38,580 And then he would start writing, "Not for sale," on the paintings. 649 00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:43,060 He was very happy that he was selling his work 650 00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:46,220 but he was also very put off 651 00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:48,660 about the work being a commodity. 652 00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:53,780 He struggled with that dichotomy 653 00:42:53,780 --> 00:42:55,780 throughout his whole life. 654 00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:59,180 I think he had a really interesting relationship with money. 655 00:42:59,180 --> 00:43:01,620 It seemed, at some points, worthless to him. 656 00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:07,020 I was with him in cabs where he would give $100 bills out 657 00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:11,060 to squeegee guys on Bowery and Houston. 658 00:43:11,060 --> 00:43:14,300 He wanted to just shock them with money. 659 00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:18,220 There you go, sir. Thank very much. Drive safe. Have a nice holiday. 660 00:43:18,220 --> 00:43:20,980 He came back to the East Village with all this money 661 00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:27,900 and started spending it wildly and we were like, "Oh, wow, money." 662 00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:31,340 There's a lot of jealousies and animosities at the time 663 00:43:31,340 --> 00:43:34,420 that you could feel the pressure. 664 00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:36,700 This camaraderie ended. 665 00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:39,500 It didn't mean that I wasn't going to go for it too, 666 00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:42,300 because I did, but it took out a lot of the fun. 667 00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:47,820 I said to Annina, "If it's at all possible, 668 00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:51,060 "I would love to do a show of Basquiat's paintings 669 00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:54,380 "in my gallery in LA," which I had recently opened in West Hollywood. 670 00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,380 So I bought first class tickets. 671 00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:02,620 I can afford first class, so I'm not going to sit in first class 672 00:44:02,620 --> 00:44:05,140 and have the artist sit in the back of the bus. 673 00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:08,540 He had friends that were going to fly out with him, 674 00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:10,980 standing out in the group was Rammellzee, 675 00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:17,060 who had a white leather trench coat that was tagged all over the place 676 00:44:17,060 --> 00:44:20,860 and he had ski goggles on and that's how he walked into first class. 677 00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:28,420 We went up the spiral staircase to this lounge and the first thing 678 00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:32,060 Basquiat does is pull out a big, fat joint and just lights it up. 679 00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:38,580 The girl that was there to take our drink order, she was flabbergasted. 680 00:44:38,580 --> 00:44:43,220 She says, "You can't." She kind of stammered out, you know,... 681 00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:47,860 And he looked... This was typical Jean-Michel. 682 00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:50,140 He looked up at her calmly 683 00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:52,580 and he says, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was first class." 684 00:44:56,460 --> 00:44:59,260 You know, it was a long time ago but I'll never forget it. 685 00:45:01,660 --> 00:45:04,420 And, hey, when we got there, we didn't get arrested, 686 00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:05,540 got to LA in one piece. 687 00:45:11,180 --> 00:45:15,340 Jean-Michel arrived and he walks in a room like a rock star, you know, 688 00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:16,820 with his hair and his outfits. 689 00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:21,220 It was just packed, the opening was packed. 690 00:45:21,220 --> 00:45:22,540 It was a great turnout. 691 00:45:23,660 --> 00:45:26,500 The word was out that this was a gifted artist 692 00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,740 and also a charismatic artist. 693 00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:33,260 I'm filming him in the opening. That's his first show in LA. 694 00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:39,740 I was going to LA City College, 695 00:45:39,740 --> 00:45:42,220 which is like the local city college for film. 696 00:45:44,980 --> 00:45:46,180 And so I was doing that 697 00:45:46,180 --> 00:45:48,060 and then working in the gallery. 698 00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:50,100 Because I always had a camera in my hand, he's like, 699 00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:53,740 "You should make a movie about me," and I was like, You know, whatever, 700 00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:56,980 like, "Yeah, you're going to be some famous artist one day, why not?" 701 00:45:56,980 --> 00:45:59,500 One canvas, he called it the LA Painting. 702 00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:03,540 It was his anticipation of what LA was like. 703 00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:08,740 It almost had like Chicano graffiti on it and blue sky. 704 00:46:08,740 --> 00:46:11,100 Extraordinary painting. 705 00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:14,460 I was just starting out. It was the beginning of my career 706 00:46:14,460 --> 00:46:15,700 as an art dealer. 707 00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:18,220 Getting a Basquiat show was definitely a coup 708 00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:21,140 and definitely gave my gallery more visibility. 709 00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:27,500 He was part of the jet set at that point, 710 00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:30,460 after going to Los Angeles with Gagosian 711 00:46:30,460 --> 00:46:32,940 and then going all over Europe 712 00:46:32,940 --> 00:46:37,980 and starting to get shows in France, in Germany, in Tokyo. 713 00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:43,700 At that point he started to say to me, "Brett, you've got to earn 714 00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,340 "some more money so we can hang together." 715 00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:50,700 He was 21 and he was 716 00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:53,860 very well on his way to becoming 717 00:46:53,860 --> 00:46:56,660 a millionaire from his art. 718 00:46:56,660 --> 00:47:01,100 He would take limousines because taxis wouldn't stop for him. 719 00:47:04,140 --> 00:47:08,260 I had never seen a black artist with this kind of unbelievable talent 720 00:47:08,260 --> 00:47:10,940 and unbelievable charisma. 721 00:47:10,940 --> 00:47:14,180 There was a lot of resentment, there was a lot of envy, 722 00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:17,380 and it definitely had a racist edge to it. 723 00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:23,220 I remember there was an artist I was friendly with and he had gone for 724 00:47:23,220 --> 00:47:26,940 a dinner party at a collector's house and I said, 725 00:47:26,940 --> 00:47:28,580 "What's their collection like?" 726 00:47:28,580 --> 00:47:31,460 He says, "They have a really great collection, Larry," he said, 727 00:47:31,460 --> 00:47:34,060 "The thing that fucks it up is they've got a Basquiat." 728 00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:42,900 I understood that he wanted to show in the Fun Gallery 729 00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:45,860 because it was in the Lower East side. 730 00:47:45,860 --> 00:47:50,100 He feels maybe guilty that some people of his age, 731 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:51,740 some younger people, 732 00:47:51,740 --> 00:47:53,260 were not about to make all the money 733 00:47:53,260 --> 00:47:54,780 that he could make or the fame. 734 00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:58,100 Where do the words come from? 735 00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,420 Real life, books, television. 736 00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:05,620 And you just skim them and start including certain... 737 00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:08,820 No, when I'm working I hear them, I just throw them down. 738 00:48:08,820 --> 00:48:13,060 It looked like he didn't want to be as famous as he was going to be. 739 00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:15,660 I wanted to do some anatomy stuff. 740 00:48:15,660 --> 00:48:17,180 And... 741 00:48:17,180 --> 00:48:20,220 And then I went out and bought some books that were about anatomy. 742 00:48:20,220 --> 00:48:23,060 And then you started imitating... 743 00:48:23,060 --> 00:48:25,700 Well, not really imitating, because you know... 744 00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:28,540 I use them as a source material. 745 00:48:28,540 --> 00:48:31,340 So why did you want to do anatomy stuff? 746 00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:32,380 Cos I felt like it. 747 00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:37,740 Those images, things from Grey's Anatomy, 748 00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:39,700 crop up all throughout his work. 749 00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:42,180 It's kind of his Rosetta Stone, in a way, of imagery. 750 00:48:46,220 --> 00:48:48,380 And Grey's Anatomy was his dictionary. 751 00:48:58,100 --> 00:49:02,340 In May of '82, my assistant in New York called me up 752 00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:05,980 and told me Basquiat left Annina Nosei's gallery. 753 00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:10,260 Bischofberger saw the show PS1 and he was begging me to do a show 754 00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:12,300 with him and I was being sort of, you know, like, 755 00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:13,820 I was playing it cool, you know, 756 00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:16,180 like telling him, you know, I didn't want to do it 757 00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:19,020 and so on and so forth, you know. 758 00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:22,580 I ask him, "Why did you leave Annina Nosei?" 759 00:49:22,580 --> 00:49:25,620 And he told me, "I warned her several times 760 00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:30,020 "that she should not sell my paintings which I leave down there 761 00:49:30,020 --> 00:49:31,740 "before I sign them." 762 00:49:31,740 --> 00:49:34,500 The idea that I sold them before they were finished, 763 00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:35,740 it doesn't make any sense. 764 00:49:35,740 --> 00:49:39,020 If he hadn't finished them, he wouldn't have given them to sell. 765 00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:44,260 Whatever I sold had a slide and a number of the inventory. 766 00:49:44,260 --> 00:49:45,700 In order to have that, 767 00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,780 that meant that with Jean-Michel we called the photographer 768 00:49:48,780 --> 00:49:52,260 and we had the photograph because the painting was finished. 769 00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:56,500 He burned bridges repeatedly behind him 770 00:49:56,500 --> 00:50:00,940 but it didn't seem to stop his forward movement. 771 00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:05,420 You know, so many collectors were coming and Gagosian was there 772 00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:09,300 all the time and they were taking paintings right out of the studio 773 00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:12,980 and he was selling directly to them without a gallery. 774 00:50:14,020 --> 00:50:15,340 He got paid in cash. 775 00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:19,420 He got paid in drugs as well. 776 00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:22,860 I never did that. I never did that. 777 00:50:23,940 --> 00:50:26,380 This was a different time in the art world. 778 00:50:26,380 --> 00:50:28,180 Every time an artist did a drawing, 779 00:50:28,180 --> 00:50:32,020 you didn't get a triplicate contract from a lawyer. 780 00:50:32,020 --> 00:50:36,500 He always had piles of cash in his studio in Crosby Street, 781 00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:39,620 as well as cocaine and all sorts of drugs 782 00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:41,340 and so that when you went there, 783 00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:43,780 you never knew who you would encounter. 784 00:50:45,620 --> 00:50:50,900 I became his exclusive worldwide dealer at the time with the promise 785 00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:53,940 to find a partner in New York so that he could show also 786 00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:55,780 in his hometown every now and then. 787 00:50:56,860 --> 00:51:00,940 I did pay quite a lot in cash because he liked cash a lot 788 00:51:00,940 --> 00:51:05,540 and it was not against the law to do that then. 789 00:51:05,540 --> 00:51:10,220 And quite often me or my assistant brought him five or ten 790 00:51:10,220 --> 00:51:13,620 or sometimes even $20,000, I don't know exactly how much it was. 791 00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:19,580 I asked Basquiat, "Which gallery would you like best?" 792 00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:22,980 He said, "Probably Mary Boone," he said, "Yes, yes, it's Mary." 793 00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:25,780 Now, he was hot. 794 00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:31,500 He was hot. He was this kid that had taken New York by storm. 795 00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:39,340 He came into the gallery, it was 1982 and he wanted to show with me, 796 00:51:39,340 --> 00:51:41,500 not because I was hot 797 00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:44,780 but because he thought I showed a serious group of 798 00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:46,940 painters that he wanted to be part of. 799 00:51:48,180 --> 00:51:50,780 I toyed with whether it would be a good idea 800 00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:53,500 to take this really young kind of 801 00:51:53,500 --> 00:51:56,780 volatile artist into the gallery, 802 00:51:56,780 --> 00:52:00,180 if that was not going to tip the scales to be too hot. 803 00:52:00,180 --> 00:52:03,820 She wasn't even sure whether this artist, maybe, 804 00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:06,740 is only a little fire who is extinguished soon. 805 00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:16,460 When Warhol founded Interview Magazine 806 00:52:16,460 --> 00:52:19,180 I was a co-owner of it, 25%. 807 00:52:19,180 --> 00:52:23,140 Whenever I think an artist is really very promising, very good, 808 00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:26,780 very great, he's glad, he takes my word for it, 809 00:52:26,780 --> 00:52:28,660 he's glad to make a project of him. 810 00:52:28,660 --> 00:52:31,100 I can invite them for lunch over there. 811 00:52:33,660 --> 00:52:35,540 I saw Jean-Michel Basquiat. 812 00:52:35,540 --> 00:52:37,980 He was brought by Bruno Bischofberger, 813 00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:42,740 who was Andy's art dealer in Zurich and very close to Andy 814 00:52:42,740 --> 00:52:44,900 and the Factory, 815 00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:50,980 and so Andy took some Polaroids of Jean-Michel, 816 00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:53,180 which is the way Andy started his portraits. 817 00:52:53,180 --> 00:52:55,060 Basquiat asks me, 818 00:52:55,060 --> 00:53:00,300 "Could you do a few pictures as well of Warhol and me together?" 819 00:53:00,300 --> 00:53:04,580 So Warhol gave me his camera, it was this long camera, 820 00:53:04,580 --> 00:53:06,420 and I make a few pictures 821 00:53:06,420 --> 00:53:08,620 of Basquiat and Warhol standing together. 822 00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:17,900 And then instead of having lunch, 823 00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:20,180 Basquiat said he would like to go home to do something, 824 00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:22,100 he can't stay for lunch. 825 00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,540 And we were hardly getting up from lunch, 826 00:53:28,540 --> 00:53:32,580 the assistant of Basquiat came running up 827 00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:36,100 with a five-foot-square painting which he painted 828 00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:39,340 after this Polaroid of the two of them. 829 00:53:39,340 --> 00:53:43,180 We all gathered around to see this portrait of Andy 830 00:53:43,180 --> 00:53:46,100 and there was not only a portrait of Andy, but a self-portrait 831 00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:50,900 of Jean-Michel and they were absolutely stunning works. 832 00:53:50,900 --> 00:53:53,460 He put it on the floor because it was still wet, you know, 833 00:53:53,460 --> 00:53:55,540 so it wouldn't run around. 834 00:53:55,540 --> 00:53:58,460 We'd all stand around and everybody liked it so much. 835 00:54:01,620 --> 00:54:03,700 And Andy was like, "Oh, God! 836 00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:05,740 "He goes so fast and these are so great, I mean, 837 00:54:05,740 --> 00:54:08,580 "I didn't even send the Polaroids out to the lab yet!" 838 00:54:08,580 --> 00:54:14,860 And Andy was looking at me, halfway smiling, halfway serious, 839 00:54:14,860 --> 00:54:20,300 but still, he said, "Ooh, I'm so jealous. He's faster than me." 840 00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:21,940 "Oh, God, Bruno, he's so great!" 841 00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:30,420 We have a painting here, actually it's called Dos Cabezas. 842 00:54:30,420 --> 00:54:31,940 It's here in the gallery. 843 00:54:38,220 --> 00:54:41,660 When Andy died, it was sold at Sotheby's. 844 00:54:41,660 --> 00:54:44,340 I bought it much more recently. 845 00:54:44,340 --> 00:54:47,740 These were his unbelievable instincts as a painter. 846 00:54:47,740 --> 00:54:51,020 He is showing Andy, in a way, his chops, 847 00:54:51,020 --> 00:54:56,660 his talent and he lets Andy be the dominant presence in the portrait. 848 00:54:57,940 --> 00:55:00,540 Really good portrait, good likeness of both of them, 849 00:55:00,540 --> 00:55:02,300 particularly Andy, I must say. 850 00:55:02,300 --> 00:55:04,380 And that was the beginning of everything 851 00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:06,300 between Andy and Jean-Michel. 852 00:55:10,220 --> 00:55:14,340 This was the haunt of Andy Warhol's and Interview Magazine 853 00:55:14,340 --> 00:55:16,420 and that whole gang. 854 00:55:16,420 --> 00:55:20,260 I started working at Interview Magazine. 855 00:55:20,260 --> 00:55:24,060 We'd come here frequently and it's always a party in here 856 00:55:24,060 --> 00:55:25,820 and everybody knew everybody else. 857 00:55:27,980 --> 00:55:32,940 Jean-Michel had been showing at Annina Nosei earlier in 1982 858 00:55:32,940 --> 00:55:35,460 but he had left so he was without a gallery. 859 00:55:37,540 --> 00:55:42,420 And I'm not an art dealer but I'm an art enthusiast, 860 00:55:42,420 --> 00:55:45,460 and Jean-Michel's painting was really story telling 861 00:55:45,460 --> 00:55:47,620 in a really fresh way that I had never seen. 862 00:55:51,740 --> 00:55:55,940 I was planning to do a show at the uptown place where I was living 863 00:55:55,940 --> 00:55:59,420 in April of 1983 and he said yes right away, 864 00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:00,740 he wanted to do the show. 865 00:56:04,340 --> 00:56:09,220 I never put any pressure on him because I didn't have the overhead 866 00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:11,780 of running the gallery, and that responsibility. 867 00:56:17,380 --> 00:56:20,860 I don't think I've ever been swayed by what a dealer thinks 868 00:56:20,860 --> 00:56:23,980 about an artist. I always listen to artists. 869 00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:28,820 At this time, like, the spring of '84, 870 00:56:28,820 --> 00:56:32,180 I was swayed to take Jean-Michel into my gallery 871 00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:35,300 because of Brice Marden and Julian Schnabel's respect 872 00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:36,780 for Jean-Michel's work. 873 00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:41,700 I think that Jean-Michel was an original 874 00:56:41,700 --> 00:56:44,140 and those were the kind of artists I wanted to show. 875 00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:51,420 It was somewhere around that time when Julian Schnabel left 876 00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:53,700 the gallery to go to Pace. 877 00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:56,940 I was sitting at my desk and I was crying because I was sad 878 00:56:56,940 --> 00:57:01,340 that Julian had left and Jean-Michel came into my little office, 879 00:57:01,340 --> 00:57:03,980 which was smaller even than this room, 880 00:57:03,980 --> 00:57:08,740 and put his arm around me and said, "Oh, Mary, don't worry. 881 00:57:08,740 --> 00:57:11,940 "I'm going to be a much better artist than Julian will ever be." 882 00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:22,300 It was an amazing first show. 883 00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:23,540 So many people came. 884 00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:27,980 A whole new group of collectors. 885 00:57:31,460 --> 00:57:35,540 Most of the work went for $25,000 or less. 886 00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:40,140 That's kind of normal for a young artist in their first show. 887 00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:45,660 I was aware that Jean-Michel was 888 00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:47,100 doing really well as an artist. 889 00:57:49,580 --> 00:57:53,060 It was very important to Jean-Michel that he be regarded 890 00:57:53,060 --> 00:57:54,420 as a great artist 891 00:57:54,420 --> 00:57:57,060 versus a black artist, 892 00:57:57,060 --> 00:57:59,180 while he was also incredibly 893 00:57:59,180 --> 00:58:02,180 connected to the black experience 894 00:58:02,180 --> 00:58:04,580 and to his blackness, because he was a black man. 895 00:58:05,820 --> 00:58:08,500 There's a lot of people that are neglected in art. 896 00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:10,620 I don't know if it's because who made the paintings 897 00:58:10,620 --> 00:58:12,460 or what but, um... 898 00:58:20,260 --> 00:58:23,660 ..black people are never really portrayed realistically in... 899 00:58:25,500 --> 00:58:28,380 Not even portrayed in modern art enough. 900 00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:41,220 That Basquiat did not want to be seen as a black artist 901 00:58:41,220 --> 00:58:43,380 is completely understandable. 902 00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:46,660 Louise Bourgeois did not want to be seen as a feminine artist. 903 00:58:46,660 --> 00:58:48,900 There are many artists who are homosexual 904 00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:51,500 who do not want to be seen as gay artists, right? 905 00:58:51,500 --> 00:58:55,180 Any artist who gets identified with a social group 906 00:58:55,180 --> 00:58:58,260 finds themselves on the spot in ways that limits their freedom, 907 00:58:58,260 --> 00:59:01,900 limits the understanding and interest in their work. 908 00:59:01,900 --> 00:59:04,300 He was looking at his career and saying, 909 00:59:04,300 --> 00:59:07,140 "I don't want to be pushed into this particular ghetto." 910 00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:12,860 He was playing a very subtle game of, on the one hand, 911 00:59:12,860 --> 00:59:16,940 again showing people things about a world they were largely ignorant of 912 00:59:16,940 --> 00:59:19,620 and mostly afraid of and, at the same time, 913 00:59:19,620 --> 00:59:22,740 doing it in idiom which was informed by the grand tradition. 914 00:59:27,420 --> 00:59:33,380 This work that's just screaming revolutionary intentions, you know, 915 00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:39,500 in terms of who it celebrates, who it valorises, who it trophies, 916 00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,860 whose experience in culture and history 917 00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:46,340 it completely embraces 918 00:59:46,340 --> 00:59:49,060 as heroic and regal 919 00:59:49,060 --> 00:59:50,700 and gutbucket at the same time. 920 00:59:56,020 --> 00:59:59,980 There are really complicated matters that make us say, 921 00:59:59,980 --> 01:00:01,980 "I don't want to be regarded as a black artist, 922 01:00:01,980 --> 01:00:04,020 "or I want to be regarded as an American artist." 923 01:00:05,260 --> 01:00:09,020 But, in fact, it is because of a certain kind of tragedy, 924 01:00:09,020 --> 01:00:12,060 Jim Crow laws, lynching, and the civil rights 925 01:00:12,060 --> 01:00:15,700 that Basquiat's work has the potency that it does 926 01:00:15,700 --> 01:00:21,020 and that tragedy is no less black, and Haitian, and Puerto Rican, 927 01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:21,940 and Brooklyn. 928 01:00:23,740 --> 01:00:26,820 He filled his work full of energies and references to the very thing 929 01:00:26,820 --> 01:00:30,260 that scared the shit out of a lot of the art world. 930 01:00:30,260 --> 01:00:31,860 They wanted it because it was exciting, 931 01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:34,300 but they didn't want it if it came in a package 932 01:00:34,300 --> 01:00:37,340 and with a messenger who would make them feel more uncomfortable 933 01:00:37,340 --> 01:00:38,580 than they already did. 934 01:00:38,580 --> 01:00:41,340 Tonight, the furore continues over the death of Michael Stewart, 935 01:00:41,340 --> 01:00:43,860 the young Brooklyn man who died 13 days after he was arrested 936 01:00:43,860 --> 01:00:48,100 by transit police officers. Artists from the Lower East side picketed... 937 01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:49,300 I knew Michael Stewart. 938 01:00:49,300 --> 01:00:52,420 He was part of the downtown scene. 939 01:00:52,420 --> 01:00:53,980 We all knew him. 940 01:00:53,980 --> 01:00:55,860 Michael Stewart emulated Jean. 941 01:00:55,860 --> 01:00:59,260 Michael Stewart cut his hair like Jean. 942 01:01:00,900 --> 01:01:04,020 Michael and I were romantic friends. 943 01:01:05,580 --> 01:01:08,020 I was not still with Jean-Michel when that happened, 944 01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:09,980 when the Michael Stewart case happened. 945 01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:15,540 I started dating Jean-Michel and then one night 946 01:01:15,540 --> 01:01:18,980 we went to the Roxy and a friend of his came up 947 01:01:18,980 --> 01:01:23,860 and told him about Michael Stewart being beaten to death. 948 01:01:23,860 --> 01:01:26,780 Michael Stewart was brought to Bellevue Hospital unconscious 949 01:01:26,780 --> 01:01:28,580 on the morning of September 15th. 950 01:01:28,580 --> 01:01:30,660 He'd been arrested by transit police 951 01:01:30,660 --> 01:01:33,380 for painting graffiti in a subway station. 952 01:01:33,380 --> 01:01:36,420 The family charges the police beat up the young man. 953 01:01:36,420 --> 01:01:38,300 The TA Police deny it. 954 01:01:38,300 --> 01:01:42,300 Normally we'd go into the club and hang out for a while and dance. 955 01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:43,540 He wanted to leave right away. 956 01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:45,900 We went back to my apartment. 957 01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:50,260 He was just drawing skulls all night. 958 01:01:50,260 --> 01:01:52,420 He was so incensed about it. 959 01:01:54,540 --> 01:01:57,620 He just said, "You're white. You would never understand. 960 01:01:57,620 --> 01:02:00,780 "You can't imagine... You can't even talk about this. 961 01:02:00,780 --> 01:02:02,380 "It just is so deep." 962 01:02:02,380 --> 01:02:05,660 He was terrified that it could have been him. 963 01:02:05,660 --> 01:02:07,260 I was very close to Michael. 964 01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:09,380 I know in my heart 965 01:02:09,380 --> 01:02:12,220 that Michael was murdered by the police. 966 01:02:12,220 --> 01:02:14,860 I hate violence and I don't know why they killed him, 967 01:02:14,860 --> 01:02:18,700 but they're not going to get away with it, that's for sure. 968 01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:21,740 We were talking about more than a close friend of everybody's. 969 01:02:21,740 --> 01:02:25,020 He was killed senselessly. 970 01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:31,620 Madonna, Keith Haring, and then several galleries gave money 971 01:02:31,620 --> 01:02:34,860 for Michael Stewart's legal defence fund 972 01:02:34,860 --> 01:02:38,020 and I went to Jean-Michel and asked for money 973 01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:42,020 and he was terrified that if he gave any money 974 01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:45,540 that he would somehow be implicated 975 01:02:45,540 --> 01:02:48,540 or that the police would come after him. 976 01:02:50,020 --> 01:02:53,060 He kept saying, "It could have been me, it could have been me." 977 01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:59,100 No one man against white supremacy 978 01:02:59,100 --> 01:03:01,140 is going to end up being the winner. 979 01:03:03,140 --> 01:03:06,020 People like James Brown and Nina Simone... 980 01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:13,780 ..who also had apprehension about being identified 981 01:03:13,780 --> 01:03:18,620 as anti-authoritarian, radical black artists. 982 01:03:18,620 --> 01:03:21,660 There's an anxiety because, you know, at that point, 983 01:03:21,660 --> 01:03:26,740 how much of your success is dependent on a white audience. 984 01:03:26,740 --> 01:03:29,140 In response to Michael Stewart's death, 985 01:03:29,140 --> 01:03:32,020 Jean-Michel made a painting called Defacement. 986 01:03:35,460 --> 01:03:38,420 With a painter who's that diaristic, 987 01:03:38,420 --> 01:03:40,180 he saw himself there. 988 01:03:40,180 --> 01:03:42,980 He saw the potential for his own annihilation 989 01:03:42,980 --> 01:03:44,300 at the hands of authority. 990 01:03:47,860 --> 01:03:49,700 Just as it was Michael Stewart, 991 01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:54,980 it could have been Jean-Michel Basquiat, who was affected and... 992 01:03:58,420 --> 01:04:00,500 ..it was scary. 993 01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:02,500 It was scary to see that that could happen. 994 01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:06,820 It continues to be scary to see that these kind of things happen 995 01:04:06,820 --> 01:04:11,140 and that young black men continue to be killed and treated 996 01:04:11,140 --> 01:04:15,380 the way that they are and I know that it also deeply affected 997 01:04:15,380 --> 01:04:16,700 and impacted Jean-Michel. 998 01:04:19,380 --> 01:04:24,660 He had this real fear that he wasn't really allowed in 999 01:04:24,660 --> 01:04:31,420 because it was a mostly white, affluent world. 1000 01:04:34,940 --> 01:04:38,380 New York Times Sunday magazine wanted an article 1001 01:04:38,380 --> 01:04:42,660 about the art market, and how it was exploding. 1002 01:04:42,660 --> 01:04:44,340 And my assignment was 1003 01:04:44,340 --> 01:04:46,980 to follow Jean-Michel Basquiat 1004 01:04:46,980 --> 01:04:49,140 as an exemplar of what was happening 1005 01:04:49,140 --> 01:04:51,420 to the art market in the early-1980s. 1006 01:04:52,780 --> 01:04:54,940 Kathleen McGuigan came to the gallery, 1007 01:04:54,940 --> 01:04:58,740 and approached me about doing a story on Jean-Michel, 1008 01:04:58,740 --> 01:05:01,620 and I think they loved him. 1009 01:05:01,620 --> 01:05:06,220 They loved the whole story that he was so young and that he was 1010 01:05:06,220 --> 01:05:08,220 full of all this energy, 1011 01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:11,580 and yet he also kind of tied into history. 1012 01:05:11,580 --> 01:05:14,820 He was only 24 years old at the time I interviewed him. 1013 01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:20,700 Andy Warhol told him it would be a good idea to do it. 1014 01:05:22,820 --> 01:05:24,980 He did also give me access. 1015 01:05:24,980 --> 01:05:28,220 You know, he let me watch him paint in his studio. 1016 01:05:31,540 --> 01:05:35,740 There was only a little glitch that they kept sending the photographer 1017 01:05:35,740 --> 01:05:39,140 to the studio to take a picture and Jean-Michel 1018 01:05:39,140 --> 01:05:41,620 didn't want to put on his shoes. 1019 01:05:41,620 --> 01:05:45,740 The editor of the magazine didn't see the irony in that, 1020 01:05:45,740 --> 01:05:49,180 so he just kept yelling and sending the photographer back. 1021 01:05:49,180 --> 01:05:51,500 "Get him to get his shoes on." 1022 01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:55,100 Finally, he calls me up and yells at me that I've got to get the artist 1023 01:05:55,100 --> 01:05:56,420 to put his shoes on. 1024 01:05:58,100 --> 01:06:00,740 I said, "He's a grown-up. If he doesn't want to put his shoes on, 1025 01:06:00,740 --> 01:06:02,180 "he's not going to put his shoes on." 1026 01:06:09,060 --> 01:06:13,060 That was a very peak moment for Jean-Michel Basquiat, 1027 01:06:13,060 --> 01:06:17,220 and then, of course, they got this really, really great image 1028 01:06:17,220 --> 01:06:20,220 and I think people remember the image almost more than anything. 1029 01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:24,300 It was really breakthrough for Jean-Michel and he knew it. 1030 01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:25,940 He knew he had made it. 1031 01:06:25,940 --> 01:06:27,180 He was so proud of it, 1032 01:06:27,180 --> 01:06:30,380 he went out and bought stacks and stacks of New York Times. 1033 01:06:31,380 --> 01:06:34,900 And Andy was reading it right up next to his face, 1034 01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:39,220 and he was really blown away by it. 1035 01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:41,740 I think he would have liked to have been on the cover. 1036 01:06:44,300 --> 01:06:48,460 Jean-Michel's father decided to have a dinner at his town house in 1037 01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:51,380 Brooklyn and Jean-Michel invited Andy and myself. 1038 01:06:53,140 --> 01:06:56,340 I think Andy Warhol coming over to the house for dinner 1039 01:06:56,340 --> 01:06:58,380 is pretty cool, really cool. 1040 01:07:02,100 --> 01:07:05,020 I was probably about 14 years old 1041 01:07:05,020 --> 01:07:07,980 and I barely knew who Andy Warhol was. 1042 01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:12,820 So, for me, it was just this kind of this eccentric friend 1043 01:07:12,820 --> 01:07:15,060 that he was bringing over to the house. 1044 01:07:18,860 --> 01:07:20,140 It was a little dinner. 1045 01:07:20,140 --> 01:07:22,580 It was Jean-Michel and Gerard 1046 01:07:22,580 --> 01:07:24,780 and Nora and Andy and myself. 1047 01:07:24,780 --> 01:07:27,820 A really sweet dinner, and it was really fun. 1048 01:07:27,820 --> 01:07:34,300 And the item for dinner was stuffed fillet of sole. 1049 01:07:42,420 --> 01:07:46,220 I thought it would be so great if Basquiat and Warhol 1050 01:07:46,220 --> 01:07:49,220 would do works together. 1051 01:07:49,220 --> 01:07:52,780 Every artist would have dreamt of doing collaborations with the most 1052 01:07:52,780 --> 01:07:54,020 famous artist on earth. 1053 01:07:56,220 --> 01:07:58,980 So I asked Basquiat, "Would you like to do such a thing?" 1054 01:07:58,980 --> 01:08:01,540 He said, "Of course, immediately. What do you think?" 1055 01:08:01,540 --> 01:08:03,380 I mean, this is your big chance. 1056 01:08:03,380 --> 01:08:05,420 For what? For nothing. 1057 01:08:06,620 --> 01:08:07,940 Nobody sees this painting. 1058 01:08:14,100 --> 01:08:16,260 There's never been anything like this, 1059 01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:19,420 this kind of collaboration of the two artistic giants 1060 01:08:19,420 --> 01:08:21,060 of different generations. 1061 01:08:23,100 --> 01:08:27,780 I think that Andy Warhol was a great influence on Jean-Michel. 1062 01:08:28,980 --> 01:08:30,380 He didn't do drugs. 1063 01:08:34,380 --> 01:08:37,540 Maybe in Andy's attempts to get Basquiat off drugs, 1064 01:08:37,540 --> 01:08:43,020 he was trying to redeem himself in the eyes of all of those, 1065 01:08:43,020 --> 01:08:45,060 including some others at The Factory, 1066 01:08:45,060 --> 01:08:47,060 who felt he had pushed people to the edge. 1067 01:08:50,740 --> 01:08:54,420 Andy was paternal but there's jealousy and rivalry 1068 01:08:54,420 --> 01:08:56,020 going on all the time. 1069 01:08:56,020 --> 01:08:57,580 I mean, I like the way, you know, 1070 01:08:57,580 --> 01:09:01,300 here we're doing some work together and you paint me out. 1071 01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:02,740 Where did I paint you out? 1072 01:09:02,740 --> 01:09:04,940 Where? Everything I've done, you've painted me out. 1073 01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:07,860 Where? Well... Where? Where? 1074 01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:15,860 I think, in some ways, Andy Warhol might have been his art father. 1075 01:09:16,740 --> 01:09:18,540 Andy is a peculiar father to have. 1076 01:09:20,820 --> 01:09:24,260 And also, Andy was competitive and when he made these paintings 1077 01:09:24,260 --> 01:09:27,140 with Basquiat, he was competing with his son. 1078 01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:30,540 Now, that's great in certain ways, in other ways maybe not so great. 1079 01:09:30,540 --> 01:09:32,940 You didn't give us enough to paint out. Oh, OK. 1080 01:09:45,780 --> 01:09:48,220 Here is the painting called Clear Boy, 1081 01:09:48,220 --> 01:09:51,300 a collaboration done between Warhol and Basquiat. 1082 01:09:52,740 --> 01:09:56,780 So, Warhol did the logos of all kind of different products, 1083 01:09:56,780 --> 01:10:02,060 like the General Electric logo here, the Ford automobile logo. 1084 01:10:02,060 --> 01:10:06,500 Basquiat convinced Warhol to start hand-painting again. 1085 01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:09,220 For 23 years, he had only used silk screen. 1086 01:10:10,620 --> 01:10:14,420 And Basquiat, in silk screen technique, 1087 01:10:14,420 --> 01:10:16,540 seen in these two bananas. 1088 01:10:16,540 --> 01:10:18,340 So, they reversed the techniques. 1089 01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:21,300 Basquiat used silk screen and Warhol painted by hand. 1090 01:10:37,580 --> 01:10:40,660 So, this is where the famous exhibition 1091 01:10:40,660 --> 01:10:47,340 of the collaboration paintings of Andy Warhol and Jean-Michel Basquiat 1092 01:10:47,340 --> 01:10:50,580 first took place at my gallery in 1985. 1093 01:10:54,980 --> 01:10:56,740 I haven't been here in 30-odd years. 1094 01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:01,140 Wow! 1095 01:11:02,780 --> 01:11:07,100 The poster for the exhibition of Warhol and Basquiat 1096 01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:09,660 was one million percent my idea. 1097 01:11:11,300 --> 01:11:13,340 I got a call from Paige Powell 1098 01:11:13,340 --> 01:11:15,340 asking me if I wanted to come to a dinner 1099 01:11:15,340 --> 01:11:18,140 that Andy was giving at Texarkana. 1100 01:11:18,140 --> 01:11:20,060 I showed up a little late. 1101 01:11:20,060 --> 01:11:22,820 The one empty seat was right next to Jean-Michel. 1102 01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:26,140 And the second I sat down, he said, 1103 01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:29,220 "Oh, I've been a fan of your work for five years. 1104 01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:31,620 "That portrait you made of Klaus Nomi, 1105 01:11:31,620 --> 01:11:35,300 "I've loved your work from the portrait you made of Klaus Nomi." 1106 01:11:35,300 --> 01:11:37,340 And I realised, wow, that's five years ago. 1107 01:11:37,340 --> 01:11:41,900 That's incredible. He really is for real. 1108 01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:45,620 So, this is the camera I used for the sitting. 1109 01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:49,900 And I've had it since my 21st birthday. 1110 01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:53,580 He explained that they had this idea to make this poster. 1111 01:11:53,580 --> 01:11:56,980 And then he said, you know, "Would you be interested 1112 01:11:56,980 --> 01:12:00,100 "in making the picture for it?" 1113 01:12:00,100 --> 01:12:02,580 I said, "Um, sure." 1114 01:12:02,580 --> 01:12:05,300 In my mind, I thought, "This is never going to happen." 1115 01:12:05,300 --> 01:12:08,180 I placed them right about here. 1116 01:12:08,180 --> 01:12:11,460 Jean turned to Andy, who was sitting at the head of the table, 1117 01:12:11,460 --> 01:12:13,900 and he yelled across to Andy and said, 1118 01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:16,980 "Michael's going to make that picture for the poster." 1119 01:12:18,140 --> 01:12:20,380 And Andy said, "Oh, wow! 1120 01:12:20,380 --> 01:12:23,820 "We already asked Robert Maplethorpe to do that." 1121 01:12:23,820 --> 01:12:27,060 And Jean said, "No, Michael's going to do it." 1122 01:12:27,060 --> 01:12:28,500 And he said, "Wow, great! 1123 01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:31,980 "I love Michael's work, I love Michael's portraits." 1124 01:12:31,980 --> 01:12:35,460 Andy just seemed to be almost like a mannequin. 1125 01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:41,300 I noticed that Jean was very comfortable moving Andy around 1126 01:12:41,300 --> 01:12:43,820 physically and telling him what to do. 1127 01:12:43,820 --> 01:12:47,500 This was interesting for me to see that he was comfortable with Andy 1128 01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:51,220 in a way that I hadn't witnessed anybody be with him, 1129 01:12:51,220 --> 01:12:52,300 which was kind of nice. 1130 01:13:00,460 --> 01:13:06,140 There was a dividing wall here and, um, you could go round one painting 1131 01:13:06,140 --> 01:13:08,740 hanging here as you entered. 1132 01:13:08,740 --> 01:13:12,980 And, er, the famous photograph of the two of them together, standing. 1133 01:13:12,980 --> 01:13:16,260 Andy Warhol and Jean-Michel, next to each other, back-to-back, 1134 01:13:16,260 --> 01:13:20,060 right here. Then you come into the larger room, 1135 01:13:20,060 --> 01:13:21,460 where the larger paintings were. 1136 01:13:22,660 --> 01:13:25,540 And this is the huge painting with a big piece of steak 1137 01:13:25,540 --> 01:13:28,220 that Warhol had painted. 1138 01:13:28,220 --> 01:13:32,900 And Jean-Michel turned the steaks into mountains 1139 01:13:32,900 --> 01:13:36,100 with skiers sloping down the mountains with a crocodile 1140 01:13:36,100 --> 01:13:37,340 or two at the bottom. 1141 01:13:38,980 --> 01:13:41,420 And this is where the two of them sat down 1142 01:13:41,420 --> 01:13:45,260 and a television documentary was made from England. 1143 01:13:47,820 --> 01:13:51,220 Then the other big painting being here was the famous painting 1144 01:13:51,220 --> 01:13:53,180 of the large dentures and head. 1145 01:13:55,980 --> 01:13:57,460 Boy, it was a great, great show. 1146 01:13:57,460 --> 01:14:00,900 One of the greatest shows, I think, of the last 100 years. 1147 01:14:03,340 --> 01:14:07,980 Andy Warhol was the great master of the '60s, '70s and '80s, 1148 01:14:07,980 --> 01:14:09,820 and befriended Jean-Michel. 1149 01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:13,140 And now the world was coming to see the collaboration paintings. 1150 01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:15,500 The paintings were far too radical then. 1151 01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:16,980 They're still radical now. 1152 01:14:16,980 --> 01:14:21,180 The world wasn't ready for it then and the response was not that great. 1153 01:14:25,700 --> 01:14:29,180 Jean had called me to come and have brunch with him. 1154 01:14:29,180 --> 01:14:34,220 It was the weekend after the opening of the exhibition 1155 01:14:34,220 --> 01:14:36,220 at Tony Shafrazi's. 1156 01:14:36,220 --> 01:14:38,100 That day, he had the New York Times 1157 01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:40,140 and he was excited to read the review. 1158 01:14:40,140 --> 01:14:44,540 And then, after he finished reading the review, he kind of... 1159 01:14:44,540 --> 01:14:45,860 His mood collapsed. 1160 01:14:45,860 --> 01:14:47,620 He just became really upset. 1161 01:14:50,060 --> 01:14:52,740 It definitely painted this picture 1162 01:14:52,740 --> 01:14:55,620 of him being portrayed as Andy's mascot... 1163 01:14:56,940 --> 01:14:58,980 ..and being really used by Andy. 1164 01:15:01,860 --> 01:15:08,140 Jean-Michel felt violated that he was called Andy's mascot, 1165 01:15:08,140 --> 01:15:10,340 and, erm... 1166 01:15:10,340 --> 01:15:12,020 Because he was already established. 1167 01:15:12,020 --> 01:15:14,580 I think he felt he was going backwards. 1168 01:15:14,580 --> 01:15:18,340 He really, really took it very hard 1169 01:15:18,340 --> 01:15:21,940 and he expressed he would never talk to Andy again. 1170 01:15:21,940 --> 01:15:23,980 That was it. He was done with Andy. 1171 01:15:27,260 --> 01:15:32,540 I think Jean became very paranoid and suspicious of even Andy 1172 01:15:32,540 --> 01:15:37,740 and felt that Andy had this reputation of being a vampire 1173 01:15:37,740 --> 01:15:43,060 and feeding off of younger artists and needing new blood 1174 01:15:43,060 --> 01:15:45,660 to infuse his own career. 1175 01:15:47,340 --> 01:15:48,780 About a month later, 1176 01:15:48,780 --> 01:15:53,700 I was photographing Andy for Giorgio Armani and then the conversation 1177 01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:58,620 shifted into Andy asking me about Jean-Michel, 1178 01:15:58,620 --> 01:16:03,620 and he was really concerned about him and wanting to know 1179 01:16:03,620 --> 01:16:08,660 if he was OK. He was very concerned that he was possibly 1180 01:16:08,660 --> 01:16:14,540 going to be self-destructive with the way he felt about this review. 1181 01:16:16,020 --> 01:16:19,860 He said, "I've been trying to reach him and I can't reach him. 1182 01:16:19,860 --> 01:16:21,700 "Is there a way? 1183 01:16:21,700 --> 01:16:24,820 "Could you tell him that I'd like to talk to him about it?" 1184 01:16:24,820 --> 01:16:26,140 I said, "OK, I'll try." 1185 01:16:27,780 --> 01:16:31,740 Andy kept saying, like we'd go out to dinner and he'd say, 1186 01:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,500 "Do think we should call Jean-Michel?" 1187 01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:38,180 I said, "Well, Andy, you've tried before and he doesn't want to go." 1188 01:16:38,180 --> 01:16:43,420 I mean... I just said to him, "Andy, he deserted you. 1189 01:16:43,420 --> 01:16:44,820 "He deserted you." 1190 01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:50,540 Jean started to doubt himself 1191 01:16:50,540 --> 01:16:55,740 and started to feel like there was a turn in the critical response 1192 01:16:55,740 --> 01:16:56,620 to his work. 1193 01:16:58,860 --> 01:17:06,180 I like to try to remain a little reclusive, not just be out there, 1194 01:17:06,180 --> 01:17:09,380 to be brought up, and be brought down, like they do to most of them. 1195 01:17:11,180 --> 01:17:13,420 I can't think of one big celebrity type person 1196 01:17:13,420 --> 01:17:16,180 they haven't done that to. 1197 01:17:16,180 --> 01:17:19,820 He was somebody who understood the value of his own work 1198 01:17:19,820 --> 01:17:25,260 and always knew it and never really kind of doubted that 1199 01:17:25,260 --> 01:17:29,940 until he was, I think, weakened by some of the drugs that he took 1200 01:17:29,940 --> 01:17:32,220 in the later part of his life. 1201 01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:43,100 The night that Andy died, he came into Indochine. 1202 01:17:43,100 --> 01:17:45,380 I was a waitress at that point. 1203 01:17:45,380 --> 01:17:49,620 And he stands in the middle of the dining room, sobbing. 1204 01:17:52,060 --> 01:17:53,460 He was inconsolable. 1205 01:17:55,940 --> 01:17:58,740 He said, "I'll never fucking get over this." 1206 01:17:58,740 --> 01:18:00,220 Crying hysterically. 1207 01:18:00,220 --> 01:18:02,180 He was like, "You've got to come with me." 1208 01:18:02,180 --> 01:18:04,300 I was like, "I can't, I'm working. 1209 01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:06,580 "I'm going to get fired if I leave in the middle of the shift." 1210 01:18:08,180 --> 01:18:13,060 The buzzer went and it was about 2am and it was frantic. 1211 01:18:13,060 --> 01:18:15,060 It was absolutely frantic. 1212 01:18:16,300 --> 01:18:19,220 My new boyfriend said, "Who is it?" 1213 01:18:19,220 --> 01:18:24,580 Jean-Michel, in a frantic voice, said, 1214 01:18:24,580 --> 01:18:28,020 "It's Jean-Michel, it's Jean-Michel. Is Suzanne there? Is Suzanne there?" 1215 01:18:28,020 --> 01:18:30,900 And I said, "Let him in, he's probably in trouble. 1216 01:18:30,900 --> 01:18:34,100 "He was probably mugged or something. Let him in." 1217 01:18:34,100 --> 01:18:35,540 And we buzzed him in. 1218 01:18:38,220 --> 01:18:39,460 And he never came up. 1219 01:18:42,820 --> 01:18:45,660 He felt guilty cos he dropped Andy. 1220 01:18:48,900 --> 01:18:50,540 And then he really got into drugs. 1221 01:18:53,260 --> 01:18:57,860 Jean-Michel came running from his studio all the way here, 1222 01:18:57,860 --> 01:18:59,540 he'd come to see me in my office. 1223 01:18:59,540 --> 01:19:03,300 He entered there. Laid down, crying, he was crying, poor guy. 1224 01:19:03,300 --> 01:19:07,900 Crying, confessing, that he'd cleaned up, it was all fine, 1225 01:19:07,900 --> 01:19:10,060 it was all going to be good from now on. 1226 01:19:10,060 --> 01:19:12,100 In the case of Jean, 1227 01:19:12,100 --> 01:19:15,860 like, the only person he listened to about drugs was Andy. 1228 01:19:19,860 --> 01:19:22,300 You know, I used to think, well, you know, 1229 01:19:22,300 --> 01:19:25,900 a separation of church and state, you know, you just... 1230 01:19:25,900 --> 01:19:27,300 You owe the artist the money, 1231 01:19:27,300 --> 01:19:32,020 you give it to them and it's not your business how they spend it. 1232 01:19:32,020 --> 01:19:37,740 And now I feel more like if someone's hurting themselves... 1233 01:19:39,460 --> 01:19:42,940 ..if I could have done anything to prevent that from happening... 1234 01:19:45,020 --> 01:19:46,420 ..I would have, and should have. 1235 01:19:50,100 --> 01:19:52,740 I rented a house in Hawaii. 1236 01:19:52,740 --> 01:19:56,660 You know, everybody kind of understood why we were doing this, 1237 01:19:56,660 --> 01:19:59,620 because it would be a healthier environment for Jean-Michel. 1238 01:20:00,700 --> 01:20:04,580 He liked Hawaii and I think sometimes Paige would stay with him. 1239 01:20:05,900 --> 01:20:08,180 He really loved spending time there. 1240 01:20:08,180 --> 01:20:11,820 It was a great way for him to escape the city. 1241 01:20:11,820 --> 01:20:13,220 It just had everything there. 1242 01:20:13,220 --> 01:20:15,420 They had horses, a horse stable 1243 01:20:15,420 --> 01:20:17,220 and different houses on it 1244 01:20:17,220 --> 01:20:20,980 and beautiful tropical fruit trees. 1245 01:20:20,980 --> 01:20:24,060 But also he didn't do hard drugs over there. 1246 01:20:24,060 --> 01:20:26,420 It was really great to see him in that world, too, 1247 01:20:26,420 --> 01:20:27,900 because he was so happy. 1248 01:20:27,900 --> 01:20:31,780 He would never... I never saw him upset when he was in Hawaii. 1249 01:20:31,780 --> 01:20:33,940 It was like a sanctuary for him. 1250 01:20:36,540 --> 01:20:39,260 It wasn't so much that he wanted to go back to New York, 1251 01:20:39,260 --> 01:20:43,340 or back to LA to, you know, get some harder drugs, 1252 01:20:43,340 --> 01:20:45,380 I think it was that he couldn't work there. 1253 01:20:53,740 --> 01:20:57,540 Basquiat's art is full of many of death's heads. 1254 01:20:57,540 --> 01:20:59,580 There are many skulls. 1255 01:20:59,580 --> 01:21:02,500 There are many faces that seem to have, you know, 1256 01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:04,900 skeletal structures behind them. 1257 01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:07,660 Some of that may simply come from how he looked at Gray's Anatomy 1258 01:21:07,660 --> 01:21:09,340 and lots of skeletons. 1259 01:21:09,340 --> 01:21:12,140 But some of it is there as intimations of mortality, 1260 01:21:12,140 --> 01:21:13,940 if not an actual death wish. 1261 01:21:18,860 --> 01:21:20,700 Like a lot of the great artists, 1262 01:21:20,700 --> 01:21:25,380 they are very aware of their mortality 1263 01:21:25,380 --> 01:21:31,180 and contrast the life force with the inevitability of death. 1264 01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:33,260 And that's central to Jean-Michel. 1265 01:21:37,980 --> 01:21:41,620 The many paintings that you see that give you a skull, 1266 01:21:41,620 --> 01:21:45,700 or skull and bones, or give you anatomy, 1267 01:21:45,700 --> 01:21:50,780 they're very much about kind of a symbolic gutting of black males 1268 01:21:50,780 --> 01:21:52,380 in American society. 1269 01:22:03,420 --> 01:22:07,500 Jean-Michel invited all his old friends at the show 1270 01:22:07,500 --> 01:22:09,420 he had at Baghoomian in 1988. 1271 01:22:14,100 --> 01:22:16,300 He was very affectionate. 1272 01:22:16,300 --> 01:22:20,140 The whole show was like a prophecy of his death. 1273 01:22:22,100 --> 01:22:26,100 And there is a big painting of the death on a horse. 1274 01:22:31,380 --> 01:22:33,220 Well, the painting Riding With Death 1275 01:22:33,220 --> 01:22:36,020 is, undoubtedly, an existential cry of some kind. 1276 01:22:38,060 --> 01:22:39,660 It's a hard painting to look at. 1277 01:22:43,140 --> 01:22:45,780 What I saw was an incredible amount of pain. 1278 01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:54,100 It just was a very clear and very profound view... 1279 01:22:59,140 --> 01:23:02,180 ..into some of what Jean-Michel was thinking about at that time. 1280 01:23:05,940 --> 01:23:09,980 There is also another big painting that says, "Man dies, man dies." 1281 01:23:09,980 --> 01:23:15,020 That that embraced not just goodbye for the summer vacation, 1282 01:23:15,020 --> 01:23:16,660 it was like a goodbye. 1283 01:23:16,660 --> 01:23:17,820 Already I felt it. 1284 01:23:33,180 --> 01:23:37,540 I got a call from Jean's housekeeper. 1285 01:23:37,540 --> 01:23:42,660 I was out on Long Island at the beach and she called and said, 1286 01:23:42,660 --> 01:23:44,100 "Jean-Michel's very sick. 1287 01:23:46,140 --> 01:23:50,860 "He's sweating, the room is very hot, there's no air conditioning... 1288 01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:56,700 "..and he has foam coming out of his mouth." 1289 01:23:56,700 --> 01:24:01,860 And I said, "Well, what are you...? You know, call 911." 1290 01:24:10,540 --> 01:24:14,740 Someone called me and told me Jean-Michel died. 1291 01:24:14,740 --> 01:24:17,820 And I said, "When?" And they told me and I was like, "Oh, my God." 1292 01:24:19,860 --> 01:24:27,140 I wished it had have been me there when he overdosed because... 1293 01:24:27,140 --> 01:24:31,420 I wish it had have been me, now as a doctor, 1294 01:24:31,420 --> 01:24:33,220 cos I would have revived him. 1295 01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:40,020 So in my mind, I play with time sometimes, and I wish. 1296 01:24:56,820 --> 01:25:02,500 It's amazing and humbling how Jean-Michel speaks to 1297 01:25:02,500 --> 01:25:05,100 not only my generation 1298 01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:08,580 but the generation of my children 1299 01:25:08,580 --> 01:25:11,580 and how powerful his voice is 1300 01:25:11,580 --> 01:25:13,660 even 30 years later. 1301 01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:25,260 Whether we're talking about Charlie Parker or Jimi Hendrix, 1302 01:25:25,260 --> 01:25:27,820 there's a romantic aspect of drugs 1303 01:25:27,820 --> 01:25:32,940 in terms of Jean-Michel being linked to the inspiration of his heroes. 1304 01:25:36,860 --> 01:25:41,260 His career goes beyond just a normal career, becomes mythic. 1305 01:25:43,300 --> 01:25:45,140 I mean, he died at... 1306 01:25:45,140 --> 01:25:47,180 He was 27 in 1988. 1307 01:25:49,020 --> 01:25:54,460 People are buying into that whole myth in addition to buying his work. 1308 01:25:54,460 --> 01:25:55,900 Thank you, Yuki. Congratulations. 1309 01:25:58,180 --> 01:26:02,260 What's interesting about the auction breaking $100 million 1310 01:26:02,260 --> 01:26:06,100 is that I feel like the rest of the world only understands greatness 1311 01:26:06,100 --> 01:26:10,180 by these consolidated values that happen through the market. 1312 01:26:10,180 --> 01:26:13,820 But it confirms something that many of us already knew - 1313 01:26:13,820 --> 01:26:16,620 how important he was to the legacy of American art. 1314 01:26:20,060 --> 01:26:22,140 I wish my brother were here today. 1315 01:26:23,900 --> 01:26:27,620 This may have been what to happen 1316 01:26:27,620 --> 01:26:33,660 in order for his voice to be as powerful as it is today. 111064

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