Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:03,580 --> 00:00:06,500
This programme contains
very strong language.
2
00:00:08,460 --> 00:00:12,700
Jean-Michel was going to make things
happen in the creative space
3
00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:14,340
by any means necessary.
4
00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:19,700
He was this kid that had taken
New York by storm.
5
00:00:33,060 --> 00:00:37,500
This work that's just screaming
revolutionary intentions.
6
00:00:39,260 --> 00:00:43,980
I'd never seen a black artist with
this kind of unbelievable talent
7
00:00:43,980 --> 00:00:45,860
and unbelievable charisma.
8
00:00:45,860 --> 00:00:48,740
So they have this image of me,
you know, wild monkey man.
9
00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:51,940
Whatever the BLEEP they think.
10
00:00:51,940 --> 00:00:56,420
We went from total poverty
to having so much money
11
00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:59,380
that we didn't know
what to do with it.
12
00:01:01,180 --> 00:01:02,700
There was a lot of resentment,
13
00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:08,380
there was a lot of envy and it had
definitely had a racist edge to it.
14
00:01:08,380 --> 00:01:11,980
Whether one regards themselves
as an artist or a black artist,
15
00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:13,780
it never stops being complicated.
16
00:01:14,860 --> 00:01:16,740
$69 million.
17
00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:20,100
We're going to produce him,
we're going to market him.
18
00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,260
I'm selling on this
side of the room.
19
00:01:22,260 --> 00:01:24,020
It's Yuki's bidder, fair warning.
20
00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:26,220
We are going to cannibalise him.
21
00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:29,260
And selling for $98 million.
22
00:01:29,260 --> 00:01:31,940
Thank you, Yuki. Congratulations.
23
00:01:34,180 --> 00:01:38,460
As his sister, almost 30 years
later, I continue to be saddened
24
00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:42,100
by the fact that my brother
isn't still here.
25
00:01:44,140 --> 00:01:48,780
I think if you want to know what
there is to know about Jean-Michel,
26
00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:50,220
the place to go is to his work.
27
00:02:06,820 --> 00:02:09,300
Of course there is.
Yeah, of course there is.
28
00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:10,820
Tell me about the anger as well.
29
00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:26,340
Mm.
30
00:02:28,620 --> 00:02:29,620
Um.
31
00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:34,460
You're on top of the world.
32
00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:37,780
I mean, I like the way, you know,
33
00:02:37,780 --> 00:02:42,060
I hear we're doing some work
together and you paint me out.
34
00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:43,420
When do I paint you out?
35
00:02:43,420 --> 00:02:46,740
I mean, everything I've done, you've
painted me out. Where? Well...
36
00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:48,260
Where? Just... Where?
37
00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:01,780
What's your earliest,
most vivid childhood memory?
38
00:03:01,780 --> 00:03:04,580
Probably getting hit by a car,
I guess.
39
00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:07,020
How did that happen?
I was playing on the street.
40
00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:08,820
How old were you? I was seven.
41
00:03:08,820 --> 00:03:10,900
Seven or eight years old.
42
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:15,100
We lived in Brooklyn,
we lived in Flatbush,
43
00:03:15,100 --> 00:03:18,060
and Jean-Michel was playing outside
when he was seven...
44
00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,260
..with a group of friends,
they were playing stick ball.
45
00:03:22,260 --> 00:03:25,460
My mother asked me to go out and
get him for dinner, which I did.
46
00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:27,580
He came running across the street,
47
00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:30,580
forgot something
and turned around to go back.
48
00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:36,260
As he was running across the street,
a car came around the corner.
49
00:03:45,580 --> 00:03:48,300
He was in the hospital for
a really, really long time.
50
00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:51,900
One of the gifts that
my mother brought to him
51
00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:53,940
was the book Gray's Anatomy.
52
00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:58,860
She wanted him to have
the opportunity to see his own body
53
00:03:58,860 --> 00:04:03,460
as it related to
the way it had to be reconstructed.
54
00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:07,020
His spleen was removed.
55
00:04:11,860 --> 00:04:15,460
That was a book that was
highly influential for him.
56
00:04:15,460 --> 00:04:20,740
My father played music from the
moment that he came home from work
57
00:04:20,740 --> 00:04:22,780
until he went to bed.
58
00:04:22,780 --> 00:04:26,740
And he played all different genres.
59
00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:31,900
Jazz was a big influence but he also
played classical and Donna Summer.
60
00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:36,660
Our mom took us to museums.
61
00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:38,660
NEWSREEL: For the schoolchildren
of Brooklyn,
62
00:04:38,660 --> 00:04:42,260
these visits to the museum
are creating an awareness of art
63
00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:44,420
and its development
through the centuries.
64
00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:49,860
Jean-Michel was our older brother.
65
00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:56,580
He was incredibly mischievous.
66
00:05:00,140 --> 00:05:02,780
He was incredibly creative.
67
00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:04,020
He always drew.
68
00:05:06,380 --> 00:05:10,340
You don't envision that
your brother would be famous
69
00:05:10,340 --> 00:05:15,980
but it is always something
that he felt that he would be.
70
00:05:15,980 --> 00:05:19,620
I also believe that his creative
influence just came from inside,
71
00:05:19,620 --> 00:05:22,100
I think he just came here that way.
72
00:05:28,260 --> 00:05:30,380
PLAYS JAZZ MUSIC
73
00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:37,980
The city looked big, I felt big,
because I was part of the landscape.
74
00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:39,780
I'm an artist.
75
00:05:39,780 --> 00:05:42,580
When you tell people that,
they usually say,
76
00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:43,500
"What's your medium?"
77
00:05:44,980 --> 00:05:47,260
I usually say, "Extra large."
78
00:05:49,340 --> 00:05:50,540
Jean-Michel left home
79
00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:53,980
because he had something
that was burning inside of him.
80
00:05:53,980 --> 00:05:57,140
He did whatever he needed
to do in order to be a painter
81
00:05:57,140 --> 00:06:00,900
and in order to be an artist
and in order to express himself.
82
00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:03,500
And I think it takes a tremendous
amount of balls to do that.
83
00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:09,820
New York City from the mid-70s
84
00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:12,020
up to the early '80s
85
00:06:12,020 --> 00:06:14,620
was a creative paradise.
86
00:06:18,380 --> 00:06:22,220
New York was falling apart,
going bankrupt.
87
00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:24,300
The straight people
were all leaving,
88
00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:28,700
so all the crazy
artists flocked here.
89
00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:32,740
The time was electric.
90
00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:36,060
Anything felt possible.
91
00:06:38,220 --> 00:06:40,260
Very inexpensive rents.
92
00:06:40,260 --> 00:06:42,100
I was able to live
93
00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:46,060
for $80 a month.
94
00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:54,620
Like almost everyone who was
living downtown in the late 1970s,
95
00:06:54,620 --> 00:07:01,860
we were intrigued by the remarkable
conceptual graffiti of SAMO.
96
00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:05,980
Even in my own building,
there was the SAMO graffiti.
97
00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:08,020
Right by the door.
98
00:07:08,020 --> 00:07:10,500
I thought, this must be
a street philosopher,
99
00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:15,540
somebody who is writing multiple
choice questions on the wall,
100
00:07:15,540 --> 00:07:20,300
asking profound questions
about values.
101
00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:22,420
SAMO was everywhere.
102
00:07:22,420 --> 00:07:24,940
It was on all the buildings,
103
00:07:24,940 --> 00:07:26,860
I was thrilled by it.
104
00:07:28,580 --> 00:07:33,940
Everyone downtown
had seen SAMO tags.
105
00:07:33,940 --> 00:07:39,020
I can remember first moving to
New York and seeing lines like,
106
00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:42,220
"A pin drops like a pungent odour,
copyright SAMO."
107
00:07:44,060 --> 00:07:47,500
There was a lot of conversation
downtown - "Who is SAMO?"
108
00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:49,740
People claimed to have seen SAMO.
109
00:07:51,820 --> 00:07:55,300
I first met Jean-Michel
in the fall of '76
110
00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:58,660
because that's when I first
went to City-As-School.
111
00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:03,500
Me and Jean-Michel
and other students
112
00:08:03,500 --> 00:08:07,260
that were interested in writing
created a high school newspaper.
113
00:08:07,260 --> 00:08:13,140
And Jean-Michel wrote a brilliant
essay about an ideal religion
114
00:08:13,140 --> 00:08:17,740
that would... just filled all
the needs and he named it SAMO.
115
00:08:17,740 --> 00:08:20,660
SAMO was part of the slang back then
116
00:08:20,660 --> 00:08:24,260
where you would hear elderly
black guys talking to each other
117
00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:25,940
and say, "Hey, what's up?"
118
00:08:25,940 --> 00:08:29,820
And the other guy would answer,
"Samo, samo."
119
00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:34,060
In other words, the same old shit
or the same old thing, whatever.
120
00:08:34,060 --> 00:08:36,700
And that's really where
we borrowed that from,
121
00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:38,900
that's absolutely
where we borrowed it from.
122
00:08:40,460 --> 00:08:42,180
Me being the graffiti artist,
123
00:08:42,180 --> 00:08:48,100
I liked that format and we started
to write SAMOs using that format.
124
00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:52,100
And then they became like SAMO
as an alternative to God.
125
00:08:52,100 --> 00:08:54,220
So it now was this thing.
126
00:08:57,020 --> 00:09:01,420
I started going around
with Jean-Michel with a Magic Marker
127
00:09:01,420 --> 00:09:05,900
and he would do the SAMO and
I would do my Jetson thing.
128
00:09:08,380 --> 00:09:14,500
Al Diaz, there was a partnership,
SAMO, was also hanging around.
129
00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:18,460
I introduced him to Keith Haring,
who I had met that same week.
130
00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,820
When I first arrived at
the School of Visual Arts in '78,
131
00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:27,300
not everyone hanging out there
was actually a student.
132
00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:31,940
Jean-Michel was not a student
but he wanted to meet artists,
133
00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:33,980
he wanted to be
hanging around artists,
134
00:09:33,980 --> 00:09:36,660
so that was a natural place
to just hang out.
135
00:09:40,660 --> 00:09:41,900
I think there was
136
00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:44,260
a very self-conscious dimension
to what he did.
137
00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:48,220
You know, he didn't
do SAMO, his tag line graffiti,
138
00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:49,940
he didn't do it just any place.
139
00:09:49,940 --> 00:09:51,220
He did it real close to Soho.
140
00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:56,940
It was a successful hype project.
141
00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:59,620
It is the Canal Zone and it's
happening here and now.
142
00:09:59,620 --> 00:10:02,540
If you're lost, you can
find yourself right here,
143
00:10:02,540 --> 00:10:04,020
right now in the Canal Zone.
144
00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:11,780
I first met Jean-Michel Basquiat
April 29th, 1979.
145
00:10:11,780 --> 00:10:16,380
It was the night of the Canal Zone
party thrown by myself,
146
00:10:16,380 --> 00:10:20,060
a British artist named Stan Peskett
and Fab 5 Freddy.
147
00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:22,340
It was called Canal Zone
148
00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:26,580
and it was kind of our first
Soho downtown party.
149
00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:33,900
We were going to have a party
150
00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:37,740
that would introduce aerosol
graffiti artists from uptown
151
00:10:37,740 --> 00:10:39,860
to the downtown fine art scene.
152
00:10:43,220 --> 00:10:47,060
Jean-Michel showed up. He was SAMO
at the time, he was known as SAMO.
153
00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:49,740
Jean-Michel came out of the shadows.
154
00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:51,660
I didn't know who he was.
155
00:10:51,660 --> 00:10:54,380
He said, "I'd like to do
something as well."
156
00:10:54,380 --> 00:10:57,220
And I said, "Sure,"
and I put a spray can in his hand,
157
00:10:57,220 --> 00:10:59,260
"There's a wall, do it."
158
00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:05,700
It was magic. Suddenly, everybody
kind of went crazy.
159
00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:11,500
All of a sudden, someone,
I hear voices, very excited,
160
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:16,180
and I walk over and I see someone
spray painting on the wall.
161
00:11:16,180 --> 00:11:20,180
He did one of his
multiple-choice SAMOs.
162
00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:24,700
It was like, oh, my God.
This is SAMO.
163
00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,500
SAMO. S-A-M-O. Come on,
you've seen it on the walls.
164
00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:30,980
Everyone, especially in the village.
This gentleman right here is SAMO.
165
00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:34,900
Nobody knew who SAMO was,
he was totally enigmatic.
166
00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:36,820
It was like a Banksy figure.
167
00:11:39,420 --> 00:11:44,420
And I immediately ran over
and grabbed his arm and I said,
168
00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:47,140
"I've been looking for you."
And he looked at me and he had,
169
00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:51,300
like, the most beautiful smile,
he said, "You have?"
170
00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:54,540
And I said, "Yes." And he said,
"Well, why are you here?"
171
00:11:54,540 --> 00:11:56,820
I said, "I live here."
172
00:11:56,820 --> 00:11:58,780
When we went into my room,
173
00:11:58,780 --> 00:12:03,460
I had books and music
that he knew and loved
174
00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:05,860
and it's like an automatic pass.
175
00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:11,180
I used to take baseball cards
and paint them with white-out,
176
00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:12,380
paint the faces out.
177
00:12:12,380 --> 00:12:14,860
He really liked what I was doing.
178
00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:17,500
Plus I had a room.
179
00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:20,740
We clicked and
that was amazing and he said,
180
00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:22,140
"I want to make postcards with you."
181
00:12:24,220 --> 00:12:28,060
We went to photo booths
and got our picture taken and, like,
182
00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:31,340
I would do something and
then he would come and do it.
183
00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,580
And we'd get to the point
where we both agreed,
184
00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:35,540
"OK, that's really
good. Let's use that."
185
00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:40,660
We were going out on the street,
we did it every day,
186
00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:44,900
and we'd make, you know,
sometimes we'd make, like, $15
187
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:46,140
and that was a bonanza.
188
00:12:50,820 --> 00:12:54,380
He would shave his head
on the street with a razor.
189
00:12:54,380 --> 00:12:57,060
People would be like,
"Oh, my God. What is that?"
190
00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:07,580
We'd come out of Jamie Canvas
after making another bunch
191
00:13:07,580 --> 00:13:12,740
of colour Xeroxes and we're
walking down the street talking
192
00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:17,620
and Jean-Michel looks in the window
of this brand-new restaurant called
193
00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:23,820
WPA and sees Andy Warhol and
Henry Geldzahler sitting at a table.
194
00:13:28,180 --> 00:13:32,820
Jean-Michel grabs my arm, and
says, "Oh, my God. It's Andy."
195
00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:34,980
And I was like, "Oh, my God."
196
00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:38,740
He said, "You stay here.
They're fags." He goes in...
197
00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:42,660
..comes back out after ten minutes.
198
00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:44,100
I'm waiting out on the sidewalk.
199
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:46,820
And I said, "What took so long?"
200
00:13:46,820 --> 00:13:49,380
He said,
"Well, they only had a five
201
00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:52,540
"and they needed to get
change of the five."
202
00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:54,380
And I said, "How many did they buy?"
203
00:13:54,380 --> 00:13:59,300
Two. So they bought one that
said, "Stupid games, bad ideas,"
204
00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:03,780
and another one that was a colour
Xerox of a pair of sunglasses
205
00:14:03,780 --> 00:14:07,780
that we had splattered white-out
on and re-Xeroxed.
206
00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:10,860
He loved Andy
207
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:13,100
and to meet him in person
was, I think,
208
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:15,460
a really important moment for him.
209
00:14:15,460 --> 00:14:19,140
Andy Warhol bought something
that he made
210
00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:20,740
and that was amazing for him.
211
00:14:26,420 --> 00:14:27,900
It was like, "Oh, my God,
212
00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:33,020
"you not only met him but he
actually bought something from you,
213
00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:35,180
"he purchased...?" This is amazing.
214
00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:40,900
Andy was like our hero figure.
215
00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:44,340
He redefined what the role of
an artist could be.
216
00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:45,540
Say cheese.
217
00:14:50,660 --> 00:14:54,700
He had told me that he sold
a postcard to Andy Warhol,
218
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:56,660
and he was really excited.
219
00:14:56,660 --> 00:14:59,900
I began to understand
that he wanted fame.
220
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:00,980
He really wanted fame.
221
00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:06,420
Probably, you know, in the same week
222
00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:10,460
he goes on the Glenn O'Brien Show
as SAMO.
223
00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:12,780
So now he's become SAMO.
224
00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:18,900
I mean, it was us and now he
had become the face for SAMO.
225
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:25,180
Tonight, we're lucky enough to
have with us probably the most
226
00:15:25,180 --> 00:15:27,620
language oriented of
all graffiti artists in New York,
227
00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:29,660
Sammo, and his associate.
228
00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:31,740
It's SAMO. SAMO, sorry.
It's Mr SAMO.
229
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:33,020
It's my personal signature.
230
00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:35,780
Sorry, Mr SAMO. Well, you know,
you see it written on the walls
231
00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:37,580
and you don't know
how to pronounce it.
232
00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:39,780
And do you write something
different every time
233
00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:41,300
or do you write the, you know...?
234
00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:43,420
I've written the same thing
before, just...
235
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,380
It all depends, you know,
like how inspired I feel.
236
00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:55,020
At a certain point, you saw
the graffiti, "SAMO is dead."
237
00:15:55,020 --> 00:15:59,100
So Jean, here he is killing SAMO,
238
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,380
cos he's the only one that
ever wrote, "SAMO is dead,"
239
00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:03,500
I never wrote, "SAMO is dead."
240
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:08,100
And as a result,
it damaged our relationship.
241
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:15,340
That was the point where Jean-Michel
began to assert himself
242
00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:18,020
as the artist Jean-Michel Basquiat.
243
00:16:18,020 --> 00:16:19,380
I never went to art school.
244
00:16:21,060 --> 00:16:23,620
I failed the art courses
that I did take in school.
245
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:30,660
I just looked at a lot of things
and that's what...
246
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:36,060
That's how I think I learned
about art, by looking at it.
247
00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:45,020
When we met in the late '70s,
248
00:16:45,020 --> 00:16:47,660
one of the things that made us
become really good friends
249
00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:52,140
was we both spent a lot of time
going to museums as young kids.
250
00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:59,060
And somehow the idea
popped up, like,
251
00:16:59,060 --> 00:17:03,100
let's start Museum Club,
and Wednesday was the day
252
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,740
when we would hop in a cab and
head up to the Metropolitan Museum.
253
00:17:27,260 --> 00:17:31,260
Jean-Michel and I would often
act like we were art students
254
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:33,580
when we would come here.
255
00:17:33,580 --> 00:17:36,780
We'd have our little sketch pads,
acting like we were sketching.
256
00:17:39,940 --> 00:17:41,820
These are all school of
Caravaggio, by the way.
257
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:45,340
Young black man in
the painting up there, nice.
258
00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:49,940
Caravaggio, he's just so great.
259
00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:52,060
Me and Jean-Michel talked
about this.
260
00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:54,900
Like, we dug him
and we did some reading about him
261
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:57,540
and the fact that he,
like, carried a sword
262
00:17:57,540 --> 00:17:59,780
was pretty bad boy
for that time period.
263
00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:02,580
You know, like, you see it in
movies, people carrying swords,
264
00:18:02,580 --> 00:18:04,780
you just think it's a regular thing,
265
00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:06,620
but if you carried a sword,
266
00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:08,100
you were gangster,
267
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,060
you carried it because you knew
you were going to use it
268
00:18:11,060 --> 00:18:13,620
or you were not afraid
to use it, so,
269
00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:15,460
some real bad boy business going on.
270
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:21,060
This guy invented creative lighting.
271
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:22,940
It's just amazing, you know.
272
00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:25,540
Chiaroscuro.
Light to dark, baby, simple.
273
00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:27,340
Simple stuff, basic stuff.
274
00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:31,980
Pretty good crown
he's got on there, huh?
275
00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:34,900
You know, the crown was a
significant part of early graffiti,
276
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:39,380
you would put a crown over your name
if you felt you were worthy.
277
00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:42,180
Jean would get a good kick
out of that guy's crown.
278
00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:50,740
This is Autumn Rhythm, so
this is a really famous Pollock,
279
00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:54,620
and I remember Jean and I
looking at it,
280
00:18:54,620 --> 00:18:58,260
appreciating it and also
talking about the fact
281
00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:01,900
that, at this time in the
early '50s, when these paintings
282
00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:06,980
were being made, Jackson Pollock's
studio was in the Village
283
00:19:06,980 --> 00:19:08,900
and he was going to jazz clubs,
284
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:11,660
and this is something
that's not often talked about,
285
00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:14,540
the fact that the abstract
expressionists were developing
286
00:19:14,540 --> 00:19:18,100
at the same time as bebop music
and the improvisational nature
287
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:19,380
that was going on in there.
288
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:24,860
Because of the racism at that time,
289
00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:28,540
a lot of critics and art historians
wouldn't really elaborate
290
00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:32,020
on the fact that, I mean, you can
see the improvisation going on
291
00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:35,220
and, like, I remember Jean-Michel
and I talking about that
292
00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:36,700
right here in this building.
293
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:44,380
I remember talking to Jean about how
294
00:19:44,380 --> 00:19:47,860
the insides of the subway cars at
that time were just blitzed
295
00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:49,460
with tag over tag over tag.
296
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:53,100
There was an unmistakable connection
between Pollock and, interestingly,
297
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,300
this Franz Kline over my shoulder.
298
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,380
Like that broad brush stroke,
299
00:19:57,380 --> 00:20:00,780
that calligraphic energy
just was just crazy.
300
00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:03,060
Undeniable, you know.
301
00:20:03,060 --> 00:20:04,020
Ah, man.
302
00:20:15,980 --> 00:20:19,540
This is cool. Like, I remember
when me and Jean would come here
303
00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:22,180
to Museum Club, you know,
we had to talk about Pablo
304
00:20:22,180 --> 00:20:25,420
but what's really interesting,
particularly with this piece,
305
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:28,060
you can see the Cubist period
had unleashed
306
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:30,820
and that whole period was
a break-out moment
307
00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:33,740
when Picasso got hip to
what Africans were doing
308
00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:36,140
and how they were
depicting the image.
309
00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:40,820
It just broke the whole mould of
310
00:20:40,820 --> 00:20:45,100
European artists trying to recreate
exactly how the image looked,
311
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,180
perspective, all that kind of stuff,
just smashed the game,
312
00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:49,420
broke it wide open.
313
00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:52,220
Once again,
that African influence, you know,
314
00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:54,860
you need to recognise, baby,
from the motherland.
315
00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:02,020
Dora Maar, you know,
316
00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:03,580
she was a hot one.
317
00:21:05,820 --> 00:21:06,820
Can't you tell?
318
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:13,620
Back on the street again.
319
00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:15,940
The Lower East Side.
320
00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:19,220
Looked like a war zone.
321
00:21:19,220 --> 00:21:21,220
Like we dropped the bomb
on ourselves.
322
00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:23,460
But it was OK.
323
00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:28,340
The star of Downtown 81
is Jean-Michel Basquiat.
324
00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:36,420
And it's not a documentary,
like a lot of people think it is.
325
00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:41,580
It's a fairy tale of
what our life was back then.
326
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:43,420
Come on, let me see your painting.
327
00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:46,300
It's a story of a struggling artist
who goes around the city
328
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:48,860
to sell his artwork to pay the rent.
329
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:50,700
This is really nice.
330
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:52,340
Thanks.
331
00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:54,780
You want to sell it?
You want to buy it?
332
00:21:54,780 --> 00:21:58,860
I'd like to buy one but
I can't even afford your paintings.
333
00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:03,540
You have to realise he really
didn't have money and no job
334
00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:09,780
and we bought him a lot of canvas
and we needed that painting
335
00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:11,420
for the story.
336
00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:13,260
And so the first paintings he did
337
00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:15,460
were really
for the purpose of the film.
338
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,140
Hey, man, that's private property.
339
00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:25,060
Hey, my man, I'm a taxpayer, I can
paint anywhere I want to paint.
340
00:22:25,060 --> 00:22:30,220
They chose to focus on Jean-Michel
as the kind of star of this movie
341
00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:35,180
and we all had little scenes and
cameo scenes in this little snapshot
342
00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:36,940
of the world we lived in.
343
00:22:36,940 --> 00:22:39,700
He's serious, man.
You want to check him out.
344
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:45,140
The pre-gentrified, gritty, grimy,
extra fun New York City.
345
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:50,980
# Fab 5 is in the house and
346
00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:54,300
# Jean-Michel is in the house. #
347
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,660
I met Jean-Michel Basquiat in 1981.
348
00:22:57,660 --> 00:23:03,420
He was working on
Downtown 81, the film.
349
00:23:03,420 --> 00:23:05,820
So he told me he was living
350
00:23:05,820 --> 00:23:07,500
in the production offices
351
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,980
for the film, which was
a storefront somewhere.
352
00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:14,780
He very quickly
moved into my apartment.
353
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:17,300
It just happened.
354
00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:21,860
I don't feel entirely responsible.
355
00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:26,740
He, erm...
356
00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:27,820
..just moved in.
357
00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:34,700
We both were biethnic, bicultural.
358
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:37,980
I'm half Palestinian
and half English.
359
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:42,780
He was half Puerto Rican
and half Haitian.
360
00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:49,940
We both had very authoritarian,
proud fathers that were tough.
361
00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:57,900
He stuttered a little. His mom had
been institutionalised
362
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,540
and that was a very sad
point for him.
363
00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:04,380
And it made him terribly sad
to tell me.
364
00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:07,020
And he would stutter even more when
he talked about her.
365
00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:14,380
I had come from Canada at the age
of 20 to the East Village
366
00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:15,620
to be an artist.
367
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:27,140
Hey, man. Hey, man.
Later. All right.
368
00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:32,220
Every artist, whatever you were, you
were also in a band, you had to be.
369
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:34,420
If you weren't in a band,
you were, like, lame.
370
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:41,140
Jean-Michel Basquiat
made this decision
371
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:43,820
that we were going to
start a band.
372
00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:46,180
Jean wanted me to be
a part of that band as well.
373
00:24:46,180 --> 00:24:48,660
I showed up to the first rehearsal.
374
00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:51,380
I was going to do scat rapping
or whatever, but I was like...
375
00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:53,100
I fell back, it wasn't for me.
376
00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:56,780
And we were just
jumping around with names
377
00:24:56,780 --> 00:24:59,060
and we really weren't
sure what it was
378
00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:03,620
and then one day Jean stops
and says, "I know the name now.
379
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:07,820
"Gray."
380
00:25:09,380 --> 00:25:12,220
I believe the reason
that it was spelt with an A,
381
00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:15,020
it was named after Gray's Anatomy,
which was a book
382
00:25:15,020 --> 00:25:17,980
that was very inspiring
for Jean-Michel Basquiat
383
00:25:17,980 --> 00:25:20,500
as a young child.
He was hit by a car.
384
00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:25,020
The music he made would create the
collage aesthetic.
385
00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:27,540
It's there whether he's doing music,
whether he's doing poetry,
386
00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:29,140
whether he's doing painting.
387
00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:37,140
Jean-Michel was painting or drawing
388
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:38,100
constantly.
389
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:47,540
There was a drive there that
I've never really seen before.
390
00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:51,020
At that time, there were
a lot of burned-out buildings
391
00:25:51,020 --> 00:25:52,620
in the East Village.
392
00:25:52,620 --> 00:25:55,100
He couldn't afford art supplies
393
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,180
so he would bring things
from the street.
394
00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:05,180
He would bring doors, wooden doors,
from these burned-out buildings,
395
00:26:05,180 --> 00:26:06,620
and he would paint on that.
396
00:26:12,780 --> 00:26:15,180
We would get in arguments.
397
00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:17,820
I was the one working
and supporting both of us
398
00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:19,980
and he wasn't contributing.
399
00:26:19,980 --> 00:26:25,660
He would always answer my concerns
400
00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:30,820
with the reassurance that
he would be famous very soon
401
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:33,820
and wealthy
and that he would look after me.
402
00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:35,300
That would end the argument.
403
00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:36,500
I mean, what could I say?
404
00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:45,220
The first painting that he sold
was to Debbie Harry from Blondie
405
00:26:45,220 --> 00:26:46,700
for $200.
406
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:48,700
# Fab 5 Freddie
told me everybody's fly
407
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:50,980
# DJ's spinning
I said, "My, my." #
408
00:26:50,980 --> 00:26:54,180
And that was a lot of money to us
at that point
409
00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:57,380
so we went out to dinner
in a Chinese restaurant
410
00:26:57,380 --> 00:26:59,060
on Second Avenue and...
411
00:26:59,060 --> 00:27:00,500
Just an ordinary restaurant,
412
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:04,500
but this was a real treat for us
because we were so poor.
413
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,660
It was very special, and
he was so happy and so proud.
414
00:27:10,580 --> 00:27:13,740
Jean-Michel's in the video, yeah.
415
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:17,380
I had wanted Grandmaster Flash
to come and be in the video
416
00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:19,660
for the part when
she starts rapping.
417
00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:21,420
She mentions me.
418
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:23,220
"Fab 5 Freddy told me
everybody's fly."
419
00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:25,700
And then she says, "DJ spinning,
Flash is fast."
420
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,140
Flash didn't believe
I really knew them at the time
421
00:27:28,140 --> 00:27:29,380
so he never showed up.
422
00:27:29,380 --> 00:27:30,940
So Jean-Michel was there,
423
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:33,820
I was like, "Yo, put Jean-Michel
at the turntables.
424
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:36,060
# Fab 5 Freddy told me
everybody's fly
425
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:38,500
# DJ spinning
I said, "My, my." #
426
00:27:50,860 --> 00:27:54,100
I saw the first works
which Basquiat showed.
427
00:27:57,140 --> 00:27:58,940
It was a show called
428
00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:01,340
New York, New Wave,
where Diego Cortez
429
00:28:01,340 --> 00:28:04,420
was the driving force
and the main curator.
430
00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:05,540
That was 1981.
431
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:09,140
Basquiat was given the main wall.
432
00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:13,420
How do you envision the future
here for these artists?
433
00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:16,820
Do you think a lot of them
are professionals or...?
434
00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:19,660
I don't really worry about the word,
435
00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:21,740
I haven't worried about
the word professionals.
436
00:28:21,740 --> 00:28:26,540
I mean, the important thing to me
is building a sociology of elements
437
00:28:26,540 --> 00:28:27,820
that depict the scene.
438
00:28:31,420 --> 00:28:32,540
I went to PS1
439
00:28:32,540 --> 00:28:35,740
because I wanted to see
the artists of New York.
440
00:28:40,860 --> 00:28:45,380
The work of Jean-Michel's paintings
were particularly sophisticated.
441
00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:52,780
What interested me
in his work immediately,
442
00:28:52,780 --> 00:28:54,980
they were a new visual language.
443
00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:05,180
I was Andy Warhol's dealer
in exclusivity after 1965.
444
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:14,140
This painting was in
the show of New York, New Wave
445
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:17,980
and one of the biggest paintings,
I think, was this,
446
00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:21,860
showing a cityscape of New York.
447
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:24,700
There are the two World Trade Towers
448
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:28,940
and on the top I think it's an
invented type of writing.
449
00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:35,780
It reminds me a little bit,
I said, of works by Twombly.
450
00:29:35,780 --> 00:29:38,100
It's one of the 15 paintings
I bought from Diego Cortez
451
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:39,380
at that time.
452
00:29:51,140 --> 00:29:53,140
I didn't ask him to be in my
gallery.
453
00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:54,820
He asked me to be in my gallery.
454
00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,420
And I said, "But my next group show
doesn't have anything
455
00:29:59,420 --> 00:30:01,780
"to do with your work." Why?
456
00:30:01,780 --> 00:30:05,980
Because it's called Public Address
and he said, "No, on the contrary,
457
00:30:05,980 --> 00:30:07,820
"I fit in it."
458
00:30:07,820 --> 00:30:12,020
He defended his point in a way that
was extremely sophisticated
459
00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:16,820
for his age. He was so strong,
the works that he presented,
460
00:30:16,820 --> 00:30:19,540
that I decided that
the second part of the gallery
461
00:30:19,540 --> 00:30:20,820
was completely for him.
462
00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:26,580
I walked over to Annina's gallery,
a couple of blocks from my loft,
463
00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:29,860
and I walked into the last room
in Annina's gallery.
464
00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:36,060
Literally my hair stood up
465
00:30:36,060 --> 00:30:41,940
on my neck. It just had an
electrifying impact on me.
466
00:30:43,540 --> 00:30:47,740
The one that's called Skull
is almost anatomical
467
00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:49,540
but also with fierce eyes.
468
00:30:49,540 --> 00:30:54,100
The perspective, the colour, the
intensity, just incredibly powerful.
469
00:30:57,740 --> 00:30:59,740
And I saw, I think,
four or five paintings.
470
00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:06,100
I had never seen the work before,
I'd never heard of the artist,
471
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,980
I didn't even know that this artist
was going to be in the show.
472
00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:10,740
I knew nothing.
473
00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:14,940
Annina at that point came out
to greet me, and I said, "Wow,
474
00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:16,420
"how much are these paintings?
475
00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:20,500
"If you'll allow me to,
I'll buy three of them."
476
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:22,980
With the discount, it probably cost
me about $9,000
477
00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:24,100
for the three of them.
478
00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:28,820
She says, "Would you like to
meet the artist?"
479
00:31:28,820 --> 00:31:31,660
I'd just bought three paintings.
I said, "Absolutely."
480
00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:35,220
I thought I was going to meet some
old French guy when I heard the name
481
00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:38,420
and then I see this black guy
sitting in her office
482
00:31:38,420 --> 00:31:42,140
with hair like, you know,
if you've seen the photographs,
483
00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:49,140
and literally paint-stained jeans
and smoking a big, fat joint.
484
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:51,860
Right off the bat there was
a rapport between us.
485
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:59,060
Coming out of minimalism in its
grids,
486
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:02,380
this next generation Jean-Michel,
487
00:32:02,380 --> 00:32:04,500
a great example of,
488
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:06,380
blew that all up.
489
00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:10,860
And he didn't have any place to make
a lot of paintings so he started to
490
00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:12,860
paint them in my
basement downstairs.
491
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:20,580
He was very productive and it was
like he had a nine-to-five job
492
00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:22,380
that was very interesting.
493
00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:25,100
He would wake up early
in the morning and go there
494
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,700
and then come home
around five or six.
495
00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:33,820
I had a job at a gallery called
Sperone Westwater Fischer.
496
00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:35,860
On my lunch hour Jean would say,
497
00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:39,500
"I'm painting in this basement,
come visit."
498
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:41,540
Jean would talk about
499
00:32:41,540 --> 00:32:45,740
France Klein
or even Robert Motherwell,
500
00:32:45,740 --> 00:32:48,500
people that I was kind of amazed
that he even knew about
501
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,540
since he hadn't been to art school.
502
00:32:51,540 --> 00:32:56,420
Jean was in awe of Cy Twombly
and would talk about Cy Twombly.
503
00:32:57,620 --> 00:33:01,420
I said, "Jeann, you know, Cy Twombly
is staying in the apartment
504
00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:03,020
"at the gallery where I work."
505
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,780
"I want to meet him. I want to meet
him now. Can you take me there?"
506
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:12,100
I said, "Yeah, sure,
I have the keys to the apartment.
507
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:13,740
"Let's go meet him,"
508
00:33:13,740 --> 00:33:16,140
so we walked over to the gallery
and, you know,
509
00:33:16,140 --> 00:33:17,460
knocked on the apartment door.
510
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,860
This was during gallery hours.
511
00:33:19,860 --> 00:33:21,980
Cy Twombly opens the door.
512
00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:24,540
I said, "Cy, this is
Jean-Michel Basquiat.
513
00:33:24,540 --> 00:33:28,260
"He really wants to meet you.
He's a big fan of yours."
514
00:33:28,260 --> 00:33:31,500
And Jean was beginning
to enter the apartment
515
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:36,260
when one of the partners came up and
said, "How did he get here?
516
00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:40,020
"Get him out now. Why is he here?"
517
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:42,700
I said, "Well, he wants to meet Cy."
518
00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:45,140
"No, no, no, that's not going
to happen.
519
00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:48,500
"Now, I want, Brett, I want you to
get him out immediately.
520
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:49,980
"Did he take anything?"
521
00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:58,100
The word got out in the art world
very quickly that there was
522
00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:01,340
a genius working
in Annina's basement.
523
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:06,820
But Jean-Michel, just hold on.
524
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:10,660
I think I have to ask you,
525
00:34:10,660 --> 00:34:12,580
is this collage?
526
00:34:12,580 --> 00:34:14,220
It's called Slave Auction.
527
00:34:14,220 --> 00:34:17,580
A slave auction. In America,
with the tobacco trade.
528
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:21,780
And this is a complete irony,
you put a halo on top?
529
00:34:21,780 --> 00:34:23,980
He's a martyr,
he's, like, dead, you know.
530
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:30,340
It's like the boat,
you know, this is a boat.
531
00:34:30,340 --> 00:34:33,260
The boat that brings
them from Africa, you know?
532
00:34:33,260 --> 00:34:36,300
He's like, "Well, how much
do I get for the slave here?
533
00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:37,500
"How much do I get for him?"
534
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:39,140
$50 for the slave, you know.
535
00:34:39,140 --> 00:34:40,580
And these, who are all those...?
536
00:34:40,580 --> 00:34:43,420
These are people who are bidding
on slaves. That's another slave.
537
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:51,500
People hear it was
a kind of dungeon.
538
00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:57,220
There were all these
pictures and rumours
539
00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:59,140
that she would keep him locked
540
00:34:59,140 --> 00:35:01,460
in the basement to make paintings.
541
00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:07,580
You know, for being a prison
with a skylight and two windows,
542
00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:09,780
that's kind of nice.
543
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,980
The story that you're always
being locked in the basement
544
00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:21,460
and ordered to paint? Oh...
545
00:35:21,460 --> 00:35:23,460
That's just some...
546
00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:25,060
It has a nasty edge to it, you know?
547
00:35:25,060 --> 00:35:26,260
I was never locked anywhere.
548
00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:28,740
I mean...
549
00:35:30,140 --> 00:35:31,900
Oh, Christ. No, it's just...
550
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:35,620
If I was white they would have
said artist in residence
551
00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:38,180
rather than saying all that
other stuff. You know?
552
00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:42,300
I didn't see any chains in Annina's
basement when he worked there,
553
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,580
that he seemed to be thriving,
554
00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:48,540
although he was interrupted
a lot of times when they would bring
555
00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:53,020
Mick Jagger down to look
and buy paintings from him.
556
00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:55,740
I told him, "Look,
I know what's going on,
557
00:35:55,740 --> 00:35:57,460
"this is a good spot to work."
558
00:35:57,460 --> 00:36:01,020
He didn't have an adequate
studio space at that time
559
00:36:01,020 --> 00:36:04,060
but I definitely told him, "I think
you should raise up out of here."
560
00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:11,380
I said, "I will help you to
rent an apartment," which I did,
561
00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:15,660
in Crosby Street,
"and I will pay the rent,
562
00:36:15,660 --> 00:36:19,660
"which I will take out of
the sales," which is what I did.
563
00:36:19,660 --> 00:36:23,140
I gave him 50% of whatever I sold.
564
00:36:23,140 --> 00:36:25,980
You know, if I sold
a painting for $10,000,
565
00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:26,780
I gave him five.
566
00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:37,180
In the period of 1981 to 1982...
567
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:41,780
..Jean-Michel was
incredibly productive.
568
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:47,660
Perhaps 250 paintings.
569
00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:51,980
At least 500 drawings.
570
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:00,820
He almost always had music on
when he was working.
571
00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:02,740
It was just very intuitive.
572
00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:09,780
He would work on several paintings
at one time.
573
00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:13,340
He would paint the background
or he might paint one line
574
00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:15,860
and then he would go over to another
and paint something
575
00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:20,420
and then come back to this one and
scratch it out or put words on it,
576
00:37:20,420 --> 00:37:22,140
so it was a constant movement.
577
00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:23,260
It was like a dance.
578
00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:26,980
It was almost like he
was channelling something.
579
00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:41,300
He did many paintings,
one after another, beautiful.
580
00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:47,180
In the structure of these paintings,
581
00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:50,540
there was a direct connection
to No Wave music.
582
00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:57,420
Seeming chaos that you hear
in the best No Wave music,
583
00:37:57,420 --> 00:38:01,460
Jean-Michel was able to articulate
in the structure of his paintings.
584
00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:12,580
They reflect a deep understanding
of avant-garde writing and poetry.
585
00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:16,780
The cut-up technique of
William Burroughs,
586
00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:22,380
to slice up and reconstitute
writing into this new structure.
587
00:38:25,420 --> 00:38:28,500
The zeitgeist was out there
on the street.
588
00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:36,220
The hip-hop community was bringing
all this flash of the spirit,
589
00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:41,260
all this colour and movement
and kind of breaking with form.
590
00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:46,780
Jean-Michel was also trying to
channel the energy of his generation
591
00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:50,140
into his canvases and
into these gallery spaces.
592
00:38:55,620 --> 00:39:02,620
Jean-Michel's work lays out so many
of these essential innovations
593
00:39:02,620 --> 00:39:08,060
in the structure of art, music
and writing at the end of the '70s,
594
00:39:08,060 --> 00:39:09,700
beginning of the '80s.
595
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:13,380
They were new but they had
the classicism of modern art.
596
00:39:13,380 --> 00:39:16,420
I never know how to really
describe, except maybe...
597
00:39:16,420 --> 00:39:19,020
I don't know how
to describe my work.
598
00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:20,580
It's like asking somebody, you know,
599
00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:22,540
asking Miles,
"How does your horn sound?"
600
00:39:22,540 --> 00:39:25,180
You know, I don't think he
could really tell you, you know,
601
00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:26,740
why he played.
602
00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:33,260
You know, why he played this at this
point in the music or just...
603
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:37,980
it's sort of on automatic,
you know, most of the time.
604
00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:40,580
What this work had was
605
00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:44,460
an astonishing directness
606
00:39:44,460 --> 00:39:47,340
but part of the discourse
around the work
607
00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:50,900
was this unfortunate
primitivist interpretation.
608
00:39:53,420 --> 00:39:56,820
He was a sophisticated
New York City kid
609
00:39:56,820 --> 00:39:58,980
and it was part of the myth of
610
00:39:58,980 --> 00:40:02,340
the noble savage, of the raw talent.
611
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:05,580
What it allowed certain people
to do was to throw up their hands
612
00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:08,260
in wonder and say,
"Here's this miracle artist,
613
00:40:08,260 --> 00:40:11,780
"we never expected anybody coming
from where he comes from
614
00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:14,900
"to be this good." The term
primitive is purely racist.
615
00:40:17,180 --> 00:40:21,820
Annina proceeded to offer
Jean-Michel his first solo
616
00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:25,100
New York gallery show
in February 1982.
617
00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:32,220
Everyone was just over the moon
when they saw the work
618
00:40:32,220 --> 00:40:34,540
and that show at Annina's.
619
00:40:35,620 --> 00:40:37,820
Everything sold out immediately.
620
00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:43,660
It just kind of all took off
all at once.
621
00:40:43,660 --> 00:40:47,980
It was just everything
that he had dreamed of.
622
00:40:47,980 --> 00:40:50,540
I'm just happy that
I was able to stick it out
623
00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:52,900
and get things I wanted. After...
624
00:40:56,580 --> 00:40:58,780
I felt like I was right,
you know what I mean?
625
00:41:00,260 --> 00:41:04,300
All of a sudden we went
from total poverty
626
00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:09,780
to having so much money that we
didn't know what to do with it.
627
00:41:09,780 --> 00:41:13,060
There was money all over
the house, hidden,
628
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:16,260
thousands of dollars because
he didn't have a bank account.
629
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:21,340
We would have lavish
parties with caviar,
630
00:41:21,340 --> 00:41:24,780
with Cristal champagne,
with cocaine.
631
00:41:27,740 --> 00:41:31,660
When everyone in the art world
starts looking at you
632
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:34,220
with expectations,
you have to produce.
633
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:36,780
Drugs helped him, I think,
634
00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:41,420
to work harder and longer hours
and simultaneously
635
00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:43,820
and made his mind free.
636
00:41:43,820 --> 00:41:46,980
It might have helped him to have
more endurance during the work.
637
00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:52,660
Collectors were coming to
the loft to look at the work
638
00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:56,300
before it was even finished
and it was very frustrating
639
00:41:56,300 --> 00:42:00,020
because often they would want
the painting to match their couch.
640
00:42:02,580 --> 00:42:06,220
I saw him do things
on Crosby Street,
641
00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:09,460
there were these collectors
who came in and brought him
642
00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:13,500
a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.
643
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,620
And he was so insulted
that he told them basically,
644
00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:21,260
"Get out, get out now, I'm not
selling anything to you,"
645
00:42:21,260 --> 00:42:24,100
and as they left,
he was on the second floor,
646
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,700
he took this bucket of chicken
and went over and dumped it
647
00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:30,940
on the heads of these people
leaving his studio.
648
00:42:35,420 --> 00:42:38,580
And then he would start writing,
"Not for sale," on the paintings.
649
00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:43,060
He was very happy that
he was selling his work
650
00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:46,220
but he was also very put off
651
00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:48,660
about the work being a commodity.
652
00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:53,780
He struggled with that dichotomy
653
00:42:53,780 --> 00:42:55,780
throughout his whole life.
654
00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:59,180
I think he had a really interesting
relationship with money.
655
00:42:59,180 --> 00:43:01,620
It seemed, at some points,
worthless to him.
656
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:07,020
I was with him in cabs where
he would give $100 bills out
657
00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:11,060
to squeegee guys
on Bowery and Houston.
658
00:43:11,060 --> 00:43:14,300
He wanted to just
shock them with money.
659
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:18,220
There you go, sir. Thank very much.
Drive safe. Have a nice holiday.
660
00:43:18,220 --> 00:43:20,980
He came back to the East Village
with all this money
661
00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:27,900
and started spending it wildly
and we were like, "Oh, wow, money."
662
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:31,340
There's a lot of jealousies
and animosities at the time
663
00:43:31,340 --> 00:43:34,420
that you could feel the pressure.
664
00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:36,700
This camaraderie ended.
665
00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:39,500
It didn't mean that
I wasn't going to go for it too,
666
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:42,300
because I did,
but it took out a lot of the fun.
667
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:47,820
I said to Annina,
"If it's at all possible,
668
00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:51,060
"I would love to do a show of
Basquiat's paintings
669
00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:54,380
"in my gallery in LA," which I had
recently opened in West Hollywood.
670
00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,380
So I bought first class tickets.
671
00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:02,620
I can afford first class, so I'm
not going to sit in first class
672
00:44:02,620 --> 00:44:05,140
and have the artist
sit in the back of the bus.
673
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:08,540
He had friends that were
going to fly out with him,
674
00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:10,980
standing out in the group
was Rammellzee,
675
00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:17,060
who had a white leather trench coat
that was tagged all over the place
676
00:44:17,060 --> 00:44:20,860
and he had ski goggles on and that's
how he walked into first class.
677
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:28,420
We went up the spiral staircase to
this lounge and the first thing
678
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:32,060
Basquiat does is pull out a big, fat
joint and just lights it up.
679
00:44:33,940 --> 00:44:38,580
The girl that was there to take our
drink order, she was flabbergasted.
680
00:44:38,580 --> 00:44:43,220
She says, "You can't." She kind
of stammered out, you know,...
681
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:47,860
And he looked...
This was typical Jean-Michel.
682
00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:50,140
He looked up at her calmly
683
00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:52,580
and he says, "Oh, I'm sorry,
I thought this was first class."
684
00:44:56,460 --> 00:44:59,260
You know, it was a long time ago
but I'll never forget it.
685
00:45:01,660 --> 00:45:04,420
And, hey, when we got there,
we didn't get arrested,
686
00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:05,540
got to LA in one piece.
687
00:45:11,180 --> 00:45:15,340
Jean-Michel arrived and he walks in
a room like a rock star, you know,
688
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:16,820
with his hair and his outfits.
689
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:21,220
It was just packed,
the opening was packed.
690
00:45:21,220 --> 00:45:22,540
It was a great turnout.
691
00:45:23,660 --> 00:45:26,500
The word was out that
this was a gifted artist
692
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,740
and also a charismatic artist.
693
00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:33,260
I'm filming him in the opening.
That's his first show in LA.
694
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:39,740
I was going to LA City College,
695
00:45:39,740 --> 00:45:42,220
which is like the local
city college for film.
696
00:45:44,980 --> 00:45:46,180
And so I was doing that
697
00:45:46,180 --> 00:45:48,060
and then working in the gallery.
698
00:45:48,060 --> 00:45:50,100
Because I always had a camera
in my hand, he's like,
699
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:53,740
"You should make a movie about me,"
and I was like, You know, whatever,
700
00:45:53,740 --> 00:45:56,980
like, "Yeah, you're going to be some
famous artist one day, why not?"
701
00:45:56,980 --> 00:45:59,500
One canvas, he called
it the LA Painting.
702
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:03,540
It was his anticipation
of what LA was like.
703
00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:08,740
It almost had like Chicano graffiti
on it and blue sky.
704
00:46:08,740 --> 00:46:11,100
Extraordinary painting.
705
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:14,460
I was just starting out.
It was the beginning of my career
706
00:46:14,460 --> 00:46:15,700
as an art dealer.
707
00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:18,220
Getting a Basquiat show
was definitely a coup
708
00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:21,140
and definitely gave my gallery
more visibility.
709
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:27,500
He was part of the jet set
at that point,
710
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:30,460
after going to Los
Angeles with Gagosian
711
00:46:30,460 --> 00:46:32,940
and then going all over Europe
712
00:46:32,940 --> 00:46:37,980
and starting to get shows
in France, in Germany, in Tokyo.
713
00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:43,700
At that point he started to say
to me, "Brett, you've got to earn
714
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,340
"some more money
so we can hang together."
715
00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:50,700
He was 21 and he was
716
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:53,860
very well on his way to becoming
717
00:46:53,860 --> 00:46:56,660
a millionaire from his art.
718
00:46:56,660 --> 00:47:01,100
He would take limousines because
taxis wouldn't stop for him.
719
00:47:04,140 --> 00:47:08,260
I had never seen a black artist with
this kind of unbelievable talent
720
00:47:08,260 --> 00:47:10,940
and unbelievable charisma.
721
00:47:10,940 --> 00:47:14,180
There was a lot of resentment,
there was a lot of envy,
722
00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:17,380
and it definitely
had a racist edge to it.
723
00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:23,220
I remember there was an artist I was
friendly with and he had gone for
724
00:47:23,220 --> 00:47:26,940
a dinner party at
a collector's house and I said,
725
00:47:26,940 --> 00:47:28,580
"What's their collection like?"
726
00:47:28,580 --> 00:47:31,460
He says, "They have a really great
collection, Larry," he said,
727
00:47:31,460 --> 00:47:34,060
"The thing that fucks it up
is they've got a Basquiat."
728
00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:42,900
I understood that he wanted to show
in the Fun Gallery
729
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:45,860
because it was in
the Lower East side.
730
00:47:45,860 --> 00:47:50,100
He feels maybe guilty
that some people of his age,
731
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:51,740
some younger people,
732
00:47:51,740 --> 00:47:53,260
were not about to make all the money
733
00:47:53,260 --> 00:47:54,780
that he could make or the fame.
734
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:58,100
Where do the words come from?
735
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,420
Real life, books, television.
736
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:05,620
And you just skim them and
start including certain...
737
00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:08,820
No, when I'm working I hear them,
I just throw them down.
738
00:48:08,820 --> 00:48:13,060
It looked like he didn't want to be
as famous as he was going to be.
739
00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:15,660
I wanted to do some anatomy stuff.
740
00:48:15,660 --> 00:48:17,180
And...
741
00:48:17,180 --> 00:48:20,220
And then I went out and bought
some books that were about anatomy.
742
00:48:20,220 --> 00:48:23,060
And then you started imitating...
743
00:48:23,060 --> 00:48:25,700
Well, not really imitating,
because you know...
744
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:28,540
I use them as a source material.
745
00:48:28,540 --> 00:48:31,340
So why did you want to do
anatomy stuff?
746
00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:32,380
Cos I felt like it.
747
00:48:35,420 --> 00:48:37,740
Those images,
things from Grey's Anatomy,
748
00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:39,700
crop up all throughout his work.
749
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:42,180
It's kind of his Rosetta Stone,
in a way, of imagery.
750
00:48:46,220 --> 00:48:48,380
And Grey's Anatomy
was his dictionary.
751
00:48:58,100 --> 00:49:02,340
In May of '82, my assistant
in New York called me up
752
00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:05,980
and told me Basquiat left
Annina Nosei's gallery.
753
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:10,260
Bischofberger saw the show PS1
and he was begging me to do a show
754
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:12,300
with him and I was being
sort of, you know, like,
755
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:13,820
I was playing it cool, you know,
756
00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:16,180
like telling him,
you know, I didn't want to do it
757
00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:19,020
and so on and so forth, you know.
758
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:22,580
I ask him, "Why did you leave Annina
Nosei?"
759
00:49:22,580 --> 00:49:25,620
And he told me, "I warned her
several times
760
00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:30,020
"that she should not sell my
paintings which I leave down there
761
00:49:30,020 --> 00:49:31,740
"before I sign them."
762
00:49:31,740 --> 00:49:34,500
The idea that I sold them
before they were finished,
763
00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:35,740
it doesn't make any sense.
764
00:49:35,740 --> 00:49:39,020
If he hadn't finished them, he
wouldn't have given them to sell.
765
00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:44,260
Whatever I sold had a slide
and a number of the inventory.
766
00:49:44,260 --> 00:49:45,700
In order to have that,
767
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,780
that meant that with Jean-Michel
we called the photographer
768
00:49:48,780 --> 00:49:52,260
and we had the photograph
because the painting was finished.
769
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:56,500
He burned bridges
repeatedly behind him
770
00:49:56,500 --> 00:50:00,940
but it didn't seem to stop
his forward movement.
771
00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:05,420
You know, so many collectors were
coming and Gagosian was there
772
00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:09,300
all the time and they were taking
paintings right out of the studio
773
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:12,980
and he was selling directly
to them without a gallery.
774
00:50:14,020 --> 00:50:15,340
He got paid in cash.
775
00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:19,420
He got paid in drugs as well.
776
00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:22,860
I never did that. I never did that.
777
00:50:23,940 --> 00:50:26,380
This was a different time
in the art world.
778
00:50:26,380 --> 00:50:28,180
Every time an artist did a drawing,
779
00:50:28,180 --> 00:50:32,020
you didn't get a triplicate
contract from a lawyer.
780
00:50:32,020 --> 00:50:36,500
He always had piles of cash
in his studio in Crosby Street,
781
00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:39,620
as well as cocaine
and all sorts of drugs
782
00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:41,340
and so that when you went there,
783
00:50:41,340 --> 00:50:43,780
you never knew who you
would encounter.
784
00:50:45,620 --> 00:50:50,900
I became his exclusive worldwide
dealer at the time with the promise
785
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:53,940
to find a partner in New York
so that he could show also
786
00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:55,780
in his hometown every now and then.
787
00:50:56,860 --> 00:51:00,940
I did pay quite a lot in cash
because he liked cash a lot
788
00:51:00,940 --> 00:51:05,540
and it was not against the law
to do that then.
789
00:51:05,540 --> 00:51:10,220
And quite often me or my assistant
brought him five or ten
790
00:51:10,220 --> 00:51:13,620
or sometimes even $20,000, I don't
know exactly how much it was.
791
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:19,580
I asked Basquiat, "Which gallery
would you like best?"
792
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:22,980
He said, "Probably Mary Boone,"
he said, "Yes, yes, it's Mary."
793
00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:25,780
Now, he was hot.
794
00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:31,500
He was hot. He was this kid that
had taken New York by storm.
795
00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:39,340
He came into the gallery, it was
1982 and he wanted to show with me,
796
00:51:39,340 --> 00:51:41,500
not because I was hot
797
00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:44,780
but because he thought
I showed a serious group of
798
00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:46,940
painters that he wanted
to be part of.
799
00:51:48,180 --> 00:51:50,780
I toyed with whether
it would be a good idea
800
00:51:50,780 --> 00:51:53,500
to take this really young kind of
801
00:51:53,500 --> 00:51:56,780
volatile artist into the gallery,
802
00:51:56,780 --> 00:52:00,180
if that was not going to
tip the scales to be too hot.
803
00:52:00,180 --> 00:52:03,820
She wasn't even sure
whether this artist, maybe,
804
00:52:03,820 --> 00:52:06,740
is only a little fire
who is extinguished soon.
805
00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:16,460
When Warhol founded
Interview Magazine
806
00:52:16,460 --> 00:52:19,180
I was a co-owner of it, 25%.
807
00:52:19,180 --> 00:52:23,140
Whenever I think an artist is
really very promising, very good,
808
00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:26,780
very great, he's glad,
he takes my word for it,
809
00:52:26,780 --> 00:52:28,660
he's glad to make a project of him.
810
00:52:28,660 --> 00:52:31,100
I can invite them
for lunch over there.
811
00:52:33,660 --> 00:52:35,540
I saw Jean-Michel Basquiat.
812
00:52:35,540 --> 00:52:37,980
He was brought by
Bruno Bischofberger,
813
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:42,740
who was Andy's art dealer in Zurich
and very close to Andy
814
00:52:42,740 --> 00:52:44,900
and the Factory,
815
00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:50,980
and so Andy took some
Polaroids of Jean-Michel,
816
00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:53,180
which is the way Andy
started his portraits.
817
00:52:53,180 --> 00:52:55,060
Basquiat asks me,
818
00:52:55,060 --> 00:53:00,300
"Could you do a few pictures as
well of Warhol and me together?"
819
00:53:00,300 --> 00:53:04,580
So Warhol gave me his camera,
it was this long camera,
820
00:53:04,580 --> 00:53:06,420
and I make a few pictures
821
00:53:06,420 --> 00:53:08,620
of Basquiat and Warhol
standing together.
822
00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:17,900
And then instead of having lunch,
823
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:20,180
Basquiat said he would like to
go home to do something,
824
00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:22,100
he can't stay for lunch.
825
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,540
And we were hardly
getting up from lunch,
826
00:53:28,540 --> 00:53:32,580
the assistant of Basquiat
came running up
827
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:36,100
with a five-foot-square painting
which he painted
828
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:39,340
after this Polaroid
of the two of them.
829
00:53:39,340 --> 00:53:43,180
We all gathered around
to see this portrait of Andy
830
00:53:43,180 --> 00:53:46,100
and there was not only a portrait
of Andy, but a self-portrait
831
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:50,900
of Jean-Michel and they were
absolutely stunning works.
832
00:53:50,900 --> 00:53:53,460
He put it on the floor because
it was still wet, you know,
833
00:53:53,460 --> 00:53:55,540
so it wouldn't run around.
834
00:53:55,540 --> 00:53:58,460
We'd all stand around
and everybody liked it so much.
835
00:54:01,620 --> 00:54:03,700
And Andy was like, "Oh, God!
836
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:05,740
"He goes so fast and these
are so great, I mean,
837
00:54:05,740 --> 00:54:08,580
"I didn't even send the Polaroids
out to the lab yet!"
838
00:54:08,580 --> 00:54:14,860
And Andy was looking at me,
halfway smiling, halfway serious,
839
00:54:14,860 --> 00:54:20,300
but still, he said, "Ooh, I'm so
jealous. He's faster than me."
840
00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:21,940
"Oh, God, Bruno, he's so great!"
841
00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:30,420
We have a painting here, actually
it's called Dos Cabezas.
842
00:54:30,420 --> 00:54:31,940
It's here in the gallery.
843
00:54:38,220 --> 00:54:41,660
When Andy died,
it was sold at Sotheby's.
844
00:54:41,660 --> 00:54:44,340
I bought it much more recently.
845
00:54:44,340 --> 00:54:47,740
These were his unbelievable
instincts as a painter.
846
00:54:47,740 --> 00:54:51,020
He is showing Andy,
in a way, his chops,
847
00:54:51,020 --> 00:54:56,660
his talent and he lets Andy be the
dominant presence in the portrait.
848
00:54:57,940 --> 00:55:00,540
Really good portrait,
good likeness of both of them,
849
00:55:00,540 --> 00:55:02,300
particularly Andy, I must say.
850
00:55:02,300 --> 00:55:04,380
And that was the beginning
of everything
851
00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:06,300
between Andy and Jean-Michel.
852
00:55:10,220 --> 00:55:14,340
This was the haunt of Andy Warhol's
and Interview Magazine
853
00:55:14,340 --> 00:55:16,420
and that whole gang.
854
00:55:16,420 --> 00:55:20,260
I started working at
Interview Magazine.
855
00:55:20,260 --> 00:55:24,060
We'd come here frequently and
it's always a party in here
856
00:55:24,060 --> 00:55:25,820
and everybody knew everybody else.
857
00:55:27,980 --> 00:55:32,940
Jean-Michel had been showing
at Annina Nosei earlier in 1982
858
00:55:32,940 --> 00:55:35,460
but he had left
so he was without a gallery.
859
00:55:37,540 --> 00:55:42,420
And I'm not an art dealer
but I'm an art enthusiast,
860
00:55:42,420 --> 00:55:45,460
and Jean-Michel's painting
was really story telling
861
00:55:45,460 --> 00:55:47,620
in a really fresh way
that I had never seen.
862
00:55:51,740 --> 00:55:55,940
I was planning to do a show at
the uptown place where I was living
863
00:55:55,940 --> 00:55:59,420
in April of 1983
and he said yes right away,
864
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:00,740
he wanted to do the show.
865
00:56:04,340 --> 00:56:09,220
I never put any pressure on him
because I didn't have the overhead
866
00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:11,780
of running the gallery,
and that responsibility.
867
00:56:17,380 --> 00:56:20,860
I don't think I've ever been
swayed by what a dealer thinks
868
00:56:20,860 --> 00:56:23,980
about an artist.
I always listen to artists.
869
00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:28,820
At this time, like,
the spring of '84,
870
00:56:28,820 --> 00:56:32,180
I was swayed to take
Jean-Michel into my gallery
871
00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:35,300
because of Brice Marden
and Julian Schnabel's respect
872
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:36,780
for Jean-Michel's work.
873
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:41,700
I think that Jean-Michel
was an original
874
00:56:41,700 --> 00:56:44,140
and those were the kind of
artists I wanted to show.
875
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:51,420
It was somewhere around that time
when Julian Schnabel left
876
00:56:51,420 --> 00:56:53,700
the gallery to go to Pace.
877
00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:56,940
I was sitting at my desk and
I was crying because I was sad
878
00:56:56,940 --> 00:57:01,340
that Julian had left and Jean-Michel
came into my little office,
879
00:57:01,340 --> 00:57:03,980
which was smaller even
than this room,
880
00:57:03,980 --> 00:57:08,740
and put his arm around me and said,
"Oh, Mary, don't worry.
881
00:57:08,740 --> 00:57:11,940
"I'm going to be a much better
artist than Julian will ever be."
882
00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:22,300
It was an amazing first show.
883
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:23,540
So many people came.
884
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:27,980
A whole new group of collectors.
885
00:57:31,460 --> 00:57:35,540
Most of the work went
for $25,000 or less.
886
00:57:36,660 --> 00:57:40,140
That's kind of normal for a young
artist in their first show.
887
00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:45,660
I was aware that Jean-Michel was
888
00:57:45,660 --> 00:57:47,100
doing really well as an artist.
889
00:57:49,580 --> 00:57:53,060
It was very important
to Jean-Michel that he be regarded
890
00:57:53,060 --> 00:57:54,420
as a great artist
891
00:57:54,420 --> 00:57:57,060
versus a black artist,
892
00:57:57,060 --> 00:57:59,180
while he was also incredibly
893
00:57:59,180 --> 00:58:02,180
connected to the black experience
894
00:58:02,180 --> 00:58:04,580
and to his blackness,
because he was a black man.
895
00:58:05,820 --> 00:58:08,500
There's a lot of people
that are neglected in art.
896
00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:10,620
I don't know if it's because
who made the paintings
897
00:58:10,620 --> 00:58:12,460
or what but, um...
898
00:58:20,260 --> 00:58:23,660
..black people are never really
portrayed realistically in...
899
00:58:25,500 --> 00:58:28,380
Not even portrayed
in modern art enough.
900
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:41,220
That Basquiat did not want
to be seen as a black artist
901
00:58:41,220 --> 00:58:43,380
is completely understandable.
902
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:46,660
Louise Bourgeois did not want
to be seen as a feminine artist.
903
00:58:46,660 --> 00:58:48,900
There are many artists
who are homosexual
904
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:51,500
who do not want to be seen
as gay artists, right?
905
00:58:51,500 --> 00:58:55,180
Any artist who gets identified
with a social group
906
00:58:55,180 --> 00:58:58,260
finds themselves on the spot in
ways that limits their freedom,
907
00:58:58,260 --> 00:59:01,900
limits the understanding
and interest in their work.
908
00:59:01,900 --> 00:59:04,300
He was looking
at his career and saying,
909
00:59:04,300 --> 00:59:07,140
"I don't want to be pushed
into this particular ghetto."
910
00:59:09,820 --> 00:59:12,860
He was playing a very subtle
game of, on the one hand,
911
00:59:12,860 --> 00:59:16,940
again showing people things about a
world they were largely ignorant of
912
00:59:16,940 --> 00:59:19,620
and mostly afraid of
and, at the same time,
913
00:59:19,620 --> 00:59:22,740
doing it in idiom which
was informed by the grand tradition.
914
00:59:27,420 --> 00:59:33,380
This work that's just screaming
revolutionary intentions, you know,
915
00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:39,500
in terms of who it celebrates,
who it valorises, who it trophies,
916
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,860
whose experience in
culture and history
917
00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:46,340
it completely embraces
918
00:59:46,340 --> 00:59:49,060
as heroic and regal
919
00:59:49,060 --> 00:59:50,700
and gutbucket at the same time.
920
00:59:56,020 --> 00:59:59,980
There are really complicated matters
that make us say,
921
00:59:59,980 --> 01:00:01,980
"I don't want to be regarded
as a black artist,
922
01:00:01,980 --> 01:00:04,020
"or I want to be regarded
as an American artist."
923
01:00:05,260 --> 01:00:09,020
But, in fact, it is because
of a certain kind of tragedy,
924
01:00:09,020 --> 01:00:12,060
Jim Crow laws,
lynching, and the civil rights
925
01:00:12,060 --> 01:00:15,700
that Basquiat's work has
the potency that it does
926
01:00:15,700 --> 01:00:21,020
and that tragedy is no less black,
and Haitian, and Puerto Rican,
927
01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:21,940
and Brooklyn.
928
01:00:23,740 --> 01:00:26,820
He filled his work full of energies
and references to the very thing
929
01:00:26,820 --> 01:00:30,260
that scared the shit
out of a lot of the art world.
930
01:00:30,260 --> 01:00:31,860
They wanted it
because it was exciting,
931
01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:34,300
but they didn't want it
if it came in a package
932
01:00:34,300 --> 01:00:37,340
and with a messenger who would
make them feel more uncomfortable
933
01:00:37,340 --> 01:00:38,580
than they already did.
934
01:00:38,580 --> 01:00:41,340
Tonight, the furore continues over
the death of Michael Stewart,
935
01:00:41,340 --> 01:00:43,860
the young Brooklyn man who died
13 days after he was arrested
936
01:00:43,860 --> 01:00:48,100
by transit police officers. Artists
from the Lower East side picketed...
937
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:49,300
I knew Michael Stewart.
938
01:00:49,300 --> 01:00:52,420
He was part of the downtown scene.
939
01:00:52,420 --> 01:00:53,980
We all knew him.
940
01:00:53,980 --> 01:00:55,860
Michael Stewart emulated Jean.
941
01:00:55,860 --> 01:00:59,260
Michael Stewart
cut his hair like Jean.
942
01:01:00,900 --> 01:01:04,020
Michael and I were romantic friends.
943
01:01:05,580 --> 01:01:08,020
I was not still with Jean-Michel
when that happened,
944
01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:09,980
when the Michael Stewart
case happened.
945
01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:15,540
I started dating Jean-Michel
and then one night
946
01:01:15,540 --> 01:01:18,980
we went to the Roxy
and a friend of his came up
947
01:01:18,980 --> 01:01:23,860
and told him about Michael Stewart
being beaten to death.
948
01:01:23,860 --> 01:01:26,780
Michael Stewart was brought to
Bellevue Hospital unconscious
949
01:01:26,780 --> 01:01:28,580
on the morning of September 15th.
950
01:01:28,580 --> 01:01:30,660
He'd been arrested by transit police
951
01:01:30,660 --> 01:01:33,380
for painting graffiti
in a subway station.
952
01:01:33,380 --> 01:01:36,420
The family charges
the police beat up the young man.
953
01:01:36,420 --> 01:01:38,300
The TA Police deny it.
954
01:01:38,300 --> 01:01:42,300
Normally we'd go into the club
and hang out for a while and dance.
955
01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:43,540
He wanted to leave right away.
956
01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:45,900
We went back to my apartment.
957
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:50,260
He was just drawing skulls
all night.
958
01:01:50,260 --> 01:01:52,420
He was so incensed about it.
959
01:01:54,540 --> 01:01:57,620
He just said, "You're white.
You would never understand.
960
01:01:57,620 --> 01:02:00,780
"You can't imagine...
You can't even talk about this.
961
01:02:00,780 --> 01:02:02,380
"It just is so deep."
962
01:02:02,380 --> 01:02:05,660
He was terrified
that it could have been him.
963
01:02:05,660 --> 01:02:07,260
I was very close to Michael.
964
01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:09,380
I know in my heart
965
01:02:09,380 --> 01:02:12,220
that Michael
was murdered by the police.
966
01:02:12,220 --> 01:02:14,860
I hate violence and
I don't know why they killed him,
967
01:02:14,860 --> 01:02:18,700
but they're not going to get away
with it, that's for sure.
968
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:21,740
We were talking about more than
a close friend of everybody's.
969
01:02:21,740 --> 01:02:25,020
He was killed senselessly.
970
01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:31,620
Madonna, Keith Haring, and then
several galleries gave money
971
01:02:31,620 --> 01:02:34,860
for Michael Stewart's
legal defence fund
972
01:02:34,860 --> 01:02:38,020
and I went to Jean-Michel
and asked for money
973
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:42,020
and he was terrified that
if he gave any money
974
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:45,540
that he would somehow be implicated
975
01:02:45,540 --> 01:02:48,540
or that the police
would come after him.
976
01:02:50,020 --> 01:02:53,060
He kept saying, "It could have
been me, it could have been me."
977
01:02:56,260 --> 01:02:59,100
No one man against white supremacy
978
01:02:59,100 --> 01:03:01,140
is going to end up being the winner.
979
01:03:03,140 --> 01:03:06,020
People like James Brown
and Nina Simone...
980
01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:13,780
..who also had apprehension
about being identified
981
01:03:13,780 --> 01:03:18,620
as anti-authoritarian,
radical black artists.
982
01:03:18,620 --> 01:03:21,660
There's an anxiety because,
you know, at that point,
983
01:03:21,660 --> 01:03:26,740
how much of your success is
dependent on a white audience.
984
01:03:26,740 --> 01:03:29,140
In response to
Michael Stewart's death,
985
01:03:29,140 --> 01:03:32,020
Jean-Michel made
a painting called Defacement.
986
01:03:35,460 --> 01:03:38,420
With a painter who's that diaristic,
987
01:03:38,420 --> 01:03:40,180
he saw himself there.
988
01:03:40,180 --> 01:03:42,980
He saw the potential
for his own annihilation
989
01:03:42,980 --> 01:03:44,300
at the hands of authority.
990
01:03:47,860 --> 01:03:49,700
Just as it was Michael Stewart,
991
01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:54,980
it could have been Jean-Michel
Basquiat, who was affected and...
992
01:03:58,420 --> 01:04:00,500
..it was scary.
993
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:02,500
It was scary to see that
that could happen.
994
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:06,820
It continues to be scary to see
that these kind of things happen
995
01:04:06,820 --> 01:04:11,140
and that young black men continue
to be killed and treated
996
01:04:11,140 --> 01:04:15,380
the way that they are and I know
that it also deeply affected
997
01:04:15,380 --> 01:04:16,700
and impacted Jean-Michel.
998
01:04:19,380 --> 01:04:24,660
He had this real fear that
he wasn't really allowed in
999
01:04:24,660 --> 01:04:31,420
because it was a mostly
white, affluent world.
1000
01:04:34,940 --> 01:04:38,380
New York Times Sunday magazine
wanted an article
1001
01:04:38,380 --> 01:04:42,660
about the art market,
and how it was exploding.
1002
01:04:42,660 --> 01:04:44,340
And my assignment was
1003
01:04:44,340 --> 01:04:46,980
to follow Jean-Michel Basquiat
1004
01:04:46,980 --> 01:04:49,140
as an exemplar of what was happening
1005
01:04:49,140 --> 01:04:51,420
to the art market
in the early-1980s.
1006
01:04:52,780 --> 01:04:54,940
Kathleen McGuigan
came to the gallery,
1007
01:04:54,940 --> 01:04:58,740
and approached me about doing
a story on Jean-Michel,
1008
01:04:58,740 --> 01:05:01,620
and I think they loved him.
1009
01:05:01,620 --> 01:05:06,220
They loved the whole story that he
was so young and that he was
1010
01:05:06,220 --> 01:05:08,220
full of all this energy,
1011
01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:11,580
and yet he also kind of tied
into history.
1012
01:05:11,580 --> 01:05:14,820
He was only 24 years old
at the time I interviewed him.
1013
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:20,700
Andy Warhol told him it would be
a good idea to do it.
1014
01:05:22,820 --> 01:05:24,980
He did also give me access.
1015
01:05:24,980 --> 01:05:28,220
You know, he let me watch him
paint in his studio.
1016
01:05:31,540 --> 01:05:35,740
There was only a little glitch that
they kept sending the photographer
1017
01:05:35,740 --> 01:05:39,140
to the studio to take
a picture and Jean-Michel
1018
01:05:39,140 --> 01:05:41,620
didn't want to put on his shoes.
1019
01:05:41,620 --> 01:05:45,740
The editor of the magazine
didn't see the irony in that,
1020
01:05:45,740 --> 01:05:49,180
so he just kept yelling and
sending the photographer back.
1021
01:05:49,180 --> 01:05:51,500
"Get him to get his shoes on."
1022
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:55,100
Finally, he calls me up and yells at
me that I've got to get the artist
1023
01:05:55,100 --> 01:05:56,420
to put his shoes on.
1024
01:05:58,100 --> 01:06:00,740
I said, "He's a grown-up. If he
doesn't want to put his shoes on,
1025
01:06:00,740 --> 01:06:02,180
"he's not going to
put his shoes on."
1026
01:06:09,060 --> 01:06:13,060
That was a very peak moment
for Jean-Michel Basquiat,
1027
01:06:13,060 --> 01:06:17,220
and then, of course, they got
this really, really great image
1028
01:06:17,220 --> 01:06:20,220
and I think people remember the
image almost more than anything.
1029
01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:24,300
It was really breakthrough for
Jean-Michel and he knew it.
1030
01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:25,940
He knew he had made it.
1031
01:06:25,940 --> 01:06:27,180
He was so proud of it,
1032
01:06:27,180 --> 01:06:30,380
he went out and bought stacks
and stacks of New York Times.
1033
01:06:31,380 --> 01:06:34,900
And Andy was reading it
right up next to his face,
1034
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:39,220
and he was really blown away by it.
1035
01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:41,740
I think he would have liked
to have been on the cover.
1036
01:06:44,300 --> 01:06:48,460
Jean-Michel's father decided to
have a dinner at his town house in
1037
01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:51,380
Brooklyn and Jean-Michel
invited Andy and myself.
1038
01:06:53,140 --> 01:06:56,340
I think Andy Warhol coming over to
the house for dinner
1039
01:06:56,340 --> 01:06:58,380
is pretty cool, really cool.
1040
01:07:02,100 --> 01:07:05,020
I was probably about 14 years old
1041
01:07:05,020 --> 01:07:07,980
and I barely knew
who Andy Warhol was.
1042
01:07:07,980 --> 01:07:12,820
So, for me, it was just this
kind of this eccentric friend
1043
01:07:12,820 --> 01:07:15,060
that he was bringing over
to the house.
1044
01:07:18,860 --> 01:07:20,140
It was a little dinner.
1045
01:07:20,140 --> 01:07:22,580
It was Jean-Michel and Gerard
1046
01:07:22,580 --> 01:07:24,780
and Nora and Andy and myself.
1047
01:07:24,780 --> 01:07:27,820
A really sweet dinner,
and it was really fun.
1048
01:07:27,820 --> 01:07:34,300
And the item for dinner was
stuffed fillet of sole.
1049
01:07:42,420 --> 01:07:46,220
I thought it would be so great
if Basquiat and Warhol
1050
01:07:46,220 --> 01:07:49,220
would do works together.
1051
01:07:49,220 --> 01:07:52,780
Every artist would have dreamt of
doing collaborations with the most
1052
01:07:52,780 --> 01:07:54,020
famous artist on earth.
1053
01:07:56,220 --> 01:07:58,980
So I asked Basquiat, "Would you
like to do such a thing?"
1054
01:07:58,980 --> 01:08:01,540
He said, "Of course, immediately.
What do you think?"
1055
01:08:01,540 --> 01:08:03,380
I mean, this is your big chance.
1056
01:08:03,380 --> 01:08:05,420
For what? For nothing.
1057
01:08:06,620 --> 01:08:07,940
Nobody sees this painting.
1058
01:08:14,100 --> 01:08:16,260
There's never been
anything like this,
1059
01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:19,420
this kind of collaboration
of the two artistic giants
1060
01:08:19,420 --> 01:08:21,060
of different generations.
1061
01:08:23,100 --> 01:08:27,780
I think that Andy Warhol was
a great influence on Jean-Michel.
1062
01:08:28,980 --> 01:08:30,380
He didn't do drugs.
1063
01:08:34,380 --> 01:08:37,540
Maybe in Andy's attempts
to get Basquiat off drugs,
1064
01:08:37,540 --> 01:08:43,020
he was trying to redeem himself
in the eyes of all of those,
1065
01:08:43,020 --> 01:08:45,060
including some others
at The Factory,
1066
01:08:45,060 --> 01:08:47,060
who felt he had pushed people
to the edge.
1067
01:08:50,740 --> 01:08:54,420
Andy was paternal but
there's jealousy and rivalry
1068
01:08:54,420 --> 01:08:56,020
going on all the time.
1069
01:08:56,020 --> 01:08:57,580
I mean, I like the way, you know,
1070
01:08:57,580 --> 01:09:01,300
here we're doing some work together
and you paint me out.
1071
01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:02,740
Where did I paint you out?
1072
01:09:02,740 --> 01:09:04,940
Where? Everything I've done,
you've painted me out.
1073
01:09:04,940 --> 01:09:07,860
Where? Well... Where? Where?
1074
01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:15,860
I think, in some ways, Andy Warhol
might have been his art father.
1075
01:09:16,740 --> 01:09:18,540
Andy is a peculiar father to have.
1076
01:09:20,820 --> 01:09:24,260
And also, Andy was competitive
and when he made these paintings
1077
01:09:24,260 --> 01:09:27,140
with Basquiat,
he was competing with his son.
1078
01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:30,540
Now, that's great in certain ways,
in other ways maybe not so great.
1079
01:09:30,540 --> 01:09:32,940
You didn't give us enough
to paint out. Oh, OK.
1080
01:09:45,780 --> 01:09:48,220
Here is the painting
called Clear Boy,
1081
01:09:48,220 --> 01:09:51,300
a collaboration done between
Warhol and Basquiat.
1082
01:09:52,740 --> 01:09:56,780
So, Warhol did the logos of
all kind of different products,
1083
01:09:56,780 --> 01:10:02,060
like the General Electric logo here,
the Ford automobile logo.
1084
01:10:02,060 --> 01:10:06,500
Basquiat convinced Warhol
to start hand-painting again.
1085
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:09,220
For 23 years, he had only
used silk screen.
1086
01:10:10,620 --> 01:10:14,420
And Basquiat,
in silk screen technique,
1087
01:10:14,420 --> 01:10:16,540
seen in these two bananas.
1088
01:10:16,540 --> 01:10:18,340
So, they reversed the techniques.
1089
01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:21,300
Basquiat used silk screen
and Warhol painted by hand.
1090
01:10:37,580 --> 01:10:40,660
So, this is where
the famous exhibition
1091
01:10:40,660 --> 01:10:47,340
of the collaboration paintings of
Andy Warhol and Jean-Michel Basquiat
1092
01:10:47,340 --> 01:10:50,580
first took place
at my gallery in 1985.
1093
01:10:54,980 --> 01:10:56,740
I haven't been here in 30-odd years.
1094
01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:01,140
Wow!
1095
01:11:02,780 --> 01:11:07,100
The poster for the exhibition
of Warhol and Basquiat
1096
01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:09,660
was one million percent my idea.
1097
01:11:11,300 --> 01:11:13,340
I got a call from Paige Powell
1098
01:11:13,340 --> 01:11:15,340
asking me if I wanted
to come to a dinner
1099
01:11:15,340 --> 01:11:18,140
that Andy was giving at Texarkana.
1100
01:11:18,140 --> 01:11:20,060
I showed up a little late.
1101
01:11:20,060 --> 01:11:22,820
The one empty seat was
right next to Jean-Michel.
1102
01:11:24,020 --> 01:11:26,140
And the second I sat down, he said,
1103
01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:29,220
"Oh, I've been a fan of
your work for five years.
1104
01:11:29,220 --> 01:11:31,620
"That portrait you made of
Klaus Nomi,
1105
01:11:31,620 --> 01:11:35,300
"I've loved your work from the
portrait you made of Klaus Nomi."
1106
01:11:35,300 --> 01:11:37,340
And I realised, wow,
that's five years ago.
1107
01:11:37,340 --> 01:11:41,900
That's incredible.
He really is for real.
1108
01:11:41,900 --> 01:11:45,620
So, this is the camera
I used for the sitting.
1109
01:11:47,260 --> 01:11:49,900
And I've had it since
my 21st birthday.
1110
01:11:49,900 --> 01:11:53,580
He explained that they had
this idea to make this poster.
1111
01:11:53,580 --> 01:11:56,980
And then he said, you know,
"Would you be interested
1112
01:11:56,980 --> 01:12:00,100
"in making the picture for it?"
1113
01:12:00,100 --> 01:12:02,580
I said, "Um, sure."
1114
01:12:02,580 --> 01:12:05,300
In my mind, I thought,
"This is never going to happen."
1115
01:12:05,300 --> 01:12:08,180
I placed them right about here.
1116
01:12:08,180 --> 01:12:11,460
Jean turned to Andy, who was
sitting at the head of the table,
1117
01:12:11,460 --> 01:12:13,900
and he yelled across to Andy
and said,
1118
01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:16,980
"Michael's going to make
that picture for the poster."
1119
01:12:18,140 --> 01:12:20,380
And Andy said, "Oh, wow!
1120
01:12:20,380 --> 01:12:23,820
"We already asked
Robert Maplethorpe to do that."
1121
01:12:23,820 --> 01:12:27,060
And Jean said,
"No, Michael's going to do it."
1122
01:12:27,060 --> 01:12:28,500
And he said, "Wow, great!
1123
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:31,980
"I love Michael's work,
I love Michael's portraits."
1124
01:12:31,980 --> 01:12:35,460
Andy just seemed to be
almost like a mannequin.
1125
01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:41,300
I noticed that Jean was very
comfortable moving Andy around
1126
01:12:41,300 --> 01:12:43,820
physically and
telling him what to do.
1127
01:12:43,820 --> 01:12:47,500
This was interesting for me to see
that he was comfortable with Andy
1128
01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:51,220
in a way that I hadn't witnessed
anybody be with him,
1129
01:12:51,220 --> 01:12:52,300
which was kind of nice.
1130
01:13:00,460 --> 01:13:06,140
There was a dividing wall here and,
um, you could go round one painting
1131
01:13:06,140 --> 01:13:08,740
hanging here as you entered.
1132
01:13:08,740 --> 01:13:12,980
And, er, the famous photograph of
the two of them together, standing.
1133
01:13:12,980 --> 01:13:16,260
Andy Warhol and Jean-Michel,
next to each other, back-to-back,
1134
01:13:16,260 --> 01:13:20,060
right here. Then you come
into the larger room,
1135
01:13:20,060 --> 01:13:21,460
where the larger paintings were.
1136
01:13:22,660 --> 01:13:25,540
And this is the huge painting
with a big piece of steak
1137
01:13:25,540 --> 01:13:28,220
that Warhol had painted.
1138
01:13:28,220 --> 01:13:32,900
And Jean-Michel turned
the steaks into mountains
1139
01:13:32,900 --> 01:13:36,100
with skiers sloping down the
mountains with a crocodile
1140
01:13:36,100 --> 01:13:37,340
or two at the bottom.
1141
01:13:38,980 --> 01:13:41,420
And this is where
the two of them sat down
1142
01:13:41,420 --> 01:13:45,260
and a television documentary
was made from England.
1143
01:13:47,820 --> 01:13:51,220
Then the other big painting being
here was the famous painting
1144
01:13:51,220 --> 01:13:53,180
of the large dentures and head.
1145
01:13:55,980 --> 01:13:57,460
Boy, it was a great, great show.
1146
01:13:57,460 --> 01:14:00,900
One of the greatest shows,
I think, of the last 100 years.
1147
01:14:03,340 --> 01:14:07,980
Andy Warhol was the great master
of the '60s, '70s and '80s,
1148
01:14:07,980 --> 01:14:09,820
and befriended Jean-Michel.
1149
01:14:09,820 --> 01:14:13,140
And now the world was coming to see
the collaboration paintings.
1150
01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:15,500
The paintings were
far too radical then.
1151
01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:16,980
They're still radical now.
1152
01:14:16,980 --> 01:14:21,180
The world wasn't ready for it then
and the response was not that great.
1153
01:14:25,700 --> 01:14:29,180
Jean had called me to come
and have brunch with him.
1154
01:14:29,180 --> 01:14:34,220
It was the weekend after
the opening of the exhibition
1155
01:14:34,220 --> 01:14:36,220
at Tony Shafrazi's.
1156
01:14:36,220 --> 01:14:38,100
That day, he had the New York Times
1157
01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:40,140
and he was excited
to read the review.
1158
01:14:40,140 --> 01:14:44,540
And then, after he finished
reading the review, he kind of...
1159
01:14:44,540 --> 01:14:45,860
His mood collapsed.
1160
01:14:45,860 --> 01:14:47,620
He just became really upset.
1161
01:14:50,060 --> 01:14:52,740
It definitely painted this picture
1162
01:14:52,740 --> 01:14:55,620
of him being portrayed
as Andy's mascot...
1163
01:14:56,940 --> 01:14:58,980
..and being really used by Andy.
1164
01:15:01,860 --> 01:15:08,140
Jean-Michel felt violated that
he was called Andy's mascot,
1165
01:15:08,140 --> 01:15:10,340
and, erm...
1166
01:15:10,340 --> 01:15:12,020
Because he was already established.
1167
01:15:12,020 --> 01:15:14,580
I think he felt
he was going backwards.
1168
01:15:14,580 --> 01:15:18,340
He really, really took it very hard
1169
01:15:18,340 --> 01:15:21,940
and he expressed he would
never talk to Andy again.
1170
01:15:21,940 --> 01:15:23,980
That was it. He was done with Andy.
1171
01:15:27,260 --> 01:15:32,540
I think Jean became very paranoid
and suspicious of even Andy
1172
01:15:32,540 --> 01:15:37,740
and felt that Andy had this
reputation of being a vampire
1173
01:15:37,740 --> 01:15:43,060
and feeding off of younger artists
and needing new blood
1174
01:15:43,060 --> 01:15:45,660
to infuse his own career.
1175
01:15:47,340 --> 01:15:48,780
About a month later,
1176
01:15:48,780 --> 01:15:53,700
I was photographing Andy for Giorgio
Armani and then the conversation
1177
01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:58,620
shifted into Andy asking
me about Jean-Michel,
1178
01:15:58,620 --> 01:16:03,620
and he was really concerned
about him and wanting to know
1179
01:16:03,620 --> 01:16:08,660
if he was OK. He was very
concerned that he was possibly
1180
01:16:08,660 --> 01:16:14,540
going to be self-destructive with
the way he felt about this review.
1181
01:16:16,020 --> 01:16:19,860
He said, "I've been trying to reach
him and I can't reach him.
1182
01:16:19,860 --> 01:16:21,700
"Is there a way?
1183
01:16:21,700 --> 01:16:24,820
"Could you tell him that I'd
like to talk to him about it?"
1184
01:16:24,820 --> 01:16:26,140
I said, "OK, I'll try."
1185
01:16:27,780 --> 01:16:31,740
Andy kept saying, like we'd go out
to dinner and he'd say,
1186
01:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,500
"Do think we should call
Jean-Michel?"
1187
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:38,180
I said, "Well, Andy, you've tried
before and he doesn't want to go."
1188
01:16:38,180 --> 01:16:43,420
I mean... I just said to him,
"Andy, he deserted you.
1189
01:16:43,420 --> 01:16:44,820
"He deserted you."
1190
01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:50,540
Jean started to doubt himself
1191
01:16:50,540 --> 01:16:55,740
and started to feel like there was
a turn in the critical response
1192
01:16:55,740 --> 01:16:56,620
to his work.
1193
01:16:58,860 --> 01:17:06,180
I like to try to remain a little
reclusive, not just be out there,
1194
01:17:06,180 --> 01:17:09,380
to be brought up, and be brought
down, like they do to most of them.
1195
01:17:11,180 --> 01:17:13,420
I can't think of
one big celebrity type person
1196
01:17:13,420 --> 01:17:16,180
they haven't done that to.
1197
01:17:16,180 --> 01:17:19,820
He was somebody who understood
the value of his own work
1198
01:17:19,820 --> 01:17:25,260
and always knew it and never
really kind of doubted that
1199
01:17:25,260 --> 01:17:29,940
until he was, I think, weakened
by some of the drugs that he took
1200
01:17:29,940 --> 01:17:32,220
in the later part of his life.
1201
01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:43,100
The night that Andy died,
he came into Indochine.
1202
01:17:43,100 --> 01:17:45,380
I was a waitress at that point.
1203
01:17:45,380 --> 01:17:49,620
And he stands in the middle
of the dining room, sobbing.
1204
01:17:52,060 --> 01:17:53,460
He was inconsolable.
1205
01:17:55,940 --> 01:17:58,740
He said,
"I'll never fucking get over this."
1206
01:17:58,740 --> 01:18:00,220
Crying hysterically.
1207
01:18:00,220 --> 01:18:02,180
He was like,
"You've got to come with me."
1208
01:18:02,180 --> 01:18:04,300
I was like, "I can't, I'm working.
1209
01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:06,580
"I'm going to get fired if I leave
in the middle of the shift."
1210
01:18:08,180 --> 01:18:13,060
The buzzer went and it was
about 2am and it was frantic.
1211
01:18:13,060 --> 01:18:15,060
It was absolutely frantic.
1212
01:18:16,300 --> 01:18:19,220
My new boyfriend said, "Who is it?"
1213
01:18:19,220 --> 01:18:24,580
Jean-Michel,
in a frantic voice, said,
1214
01:18:24,580 --> 01:18:28,020
"It's Jean-Michel, it's Jean-Michel.
Is Suzanne there? Is Suzanne there?"
1215
01:18:28,020 --> 01:18:30,900
And I said, "Let
him in, he's probably in trouble.
1216
01:18:30,900 --> 01:18:34,100
"He was probably mugged
or something. Let him in."
1217
01:18:34,100 --> 01:18:35,540
And we buzzed him in.
1218
01:18:38,220 --> 01:18:39,460
And he never came up.
1219
01:18:42,820 --> 01:18:45,660
He felt guilty cos he dropped Andy.
1220
01:18:48,900 --> 01:18:50,540
And then he really got into drugs.
1221
01:18:53,260 --> 01:18:57,860
Jean-Michel came running from
his studio all the way here,
1222
01:18:57,860 --> 01:18:59,540
he'd come to see me in my office.
1223
01:18:59,540 --> 01:19:03,300
He entered there. Laid down, crying,
he was crying, poor guy.
1224
01:19:03,300 --> 01:19:07,900
Crying, confessing, that he'd
cleaned up, it was all fine,
1225
01:19:07,900 --> 01:19:10,060
it was all going to be good
from now on.
1226
01:19:10,060 --> 01:19:12,100
In the case of Jean,
1227
01:19:12,100 --> 01:19:15,860
like, the only person he listened
to about drugs was Andy.
1228
01:19:19,860 --> 01:19:22,300
You know, I used to think,
well, you know,
1229
01:19:22,300 --> 01:19:25,900
a separation of church and state,
you know, you just...
1230
01:19:25,900 --> 01:19:27,300
You owe the artist the money,
1231
01:19:27,300 --> 01:19:32,020
you give it to them and it's not
your business how they spend it.
1232
01:19:32,020 --> 01:19:37,740
And now I feel more like if
someone's hurting themselves...
1233
01:19:39,460 --> 01:19:42,940
..if I could have done anything to
prevent that from happening...
1234
01:19:45,020 --> 01:19:46,420
..I would have, and should have.
1235
01:19:50,100 --> 01:19:52,740
I rented a house in Hawaii.
1236
01:19:52,740 --> 01:19:56,660
You know, everybody kind of
understood why we were doing this,
1237
01:19:56,660 --> 01:19:59,620
because it would be a healthier
environment for Jean-Michel.
1238
01:20:00,700 --> 01:20:04,580
He liked Hawaii and I think
sometimes Paige would stay with him.
1239
01:20:05,900 --> 01:20:08,180
He really loved spending time there.
1240
01:20:08,180 --> 01:20:11,820
It was a great way
for him to escape the city.
1241
01:20:11,820 --> 01:20:13,220
It just had everything there.
1242
01:20:13,220 --> 01:20:15,420
They had horses, a horse stable
1243
01:20:15,420 --> 01:20:17,220
and different houses on it
1244
01:20:17,220 --> 01:20:20,980
and beautiful tropical fruit trees.
1245
01:20:20,980 --> 01:20:24,060
But also he didn't
do hard drugs over there.
1246
01:20:24,060 --> 01:20:26,420
It was really great
to see him in that world, too,
1247
01:20:26,420 --> 01:20:27,900
because he was so happy.
1248
01:20:27,900 --> 01:20:31,780
He would never... I never saw him
upset when he was in Hawaii.
1249
01:20:31,780 --> 01:20:33,940
It was like a sanctuary for him.
1250
01:20:36,540 --> 01:20:39,260
It wasn't so much that he wanted
to go back to New York,
1251
01:20:39,260 --> 01:20:43,340
or back to LA to, you know,
get some harder drugs,
1252
01:20:43,340 --> 01:20:45,380
I think it was that
he couldn't work there.
1253
01:20:53,740 --> 01:20:57,540
Basquiat's art is full of
many of death's heads.
1254
01:20:57,540 --> 01:20:59,580
There are many skulls.
1255
01:20:59,580 --> 01:21:02,500
There are many faces that
seem to have, you know,
1256
01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:04,900
skeletal structures behind them.
1257
01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:07,660
Some of that may simply come from
how he looked at Gray's Anatomy
1258
01:21:07,660 --> 01:21:09,340
and lots of skeletons.
1259
01:21:09,340 --> 01:21:12,140
But some of it is there as
intimations of mortality,
1260
01:21:12,140 --> 01:21:13,940
if not an actual death wish.
1261
01:21:18,860 --> 01:21:20,700
Like a lot of the great artists,
1262
01:21:20,700 --> 01:21:25,380
they are very aware of
their mortality
1263
01:21:25,380 --> 01:21:31,180
and contrast the life force
with the inevitability of death.
1264
01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:33,260
And that's central to Jean-Michel.
1265
01:21:37,980 --> 01:21:41,620
The many paintings that
you see that give you a skull,
1266
01:21:41,620 --> 01:21:45,700
or skull and bones,
or give you anatomy,
1267
01:21:45,700 --> 01:21:50,780
they're very much about kind of a
symbolic gutting of black males
1268
01:21:50,780 --> 01:21:52,380
in American society.
1269
01:22:03,420 --> 01:22:07,500
Jean-Michel invited
all his old friends at the show
1270
01:22:07,500 --> 01:22:09,420
he had at Baghoomian in 1988.
1271
01:22:14,100 --> 01:22:16,300
He was very affectionate.
1272
01:22:16,300 --> 01:22:20,140
The whole show was like
a prophecy of his death.
1273
01:22:22,100 --> 01:22:26,100
And there is a big painting
of the death on a horse.
1274
01:22:31,380 --> 01:22:33,220
Well, the painting Riding With Death
1275
01:22:33,220 --> 01:22:36,020
is, undoubtedly, an existential cry
of some kind.
1276
01:22:38,060 --> 01:22:39,660
It's a hard painting to look at.
1277
01:22:43,140 --> 01:22:45,780
What I saw was an incredible
amount of pain.
1278
01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:54,100
It just was a very clear
and very profound view...
1279
01:22:59,140 --> 01:23:02,180
..into some of what Jean-Michel
was thinking about at that time.
1280
01:23:05,940 --> 01:23:09,980
There is also another big painting
that says, "Man dies, man dies."
1281
01:23:09,980 --> 01:23:15,020
That that embraced not just
goodbye for the summer vacation,
1282
01:23:15,020 --> 01:23:16,660
it was like a goodbye.
1283
01:23:16,660 --> 01:23:17,820
Already I felt it.
1284
01:23:33,180 --> 01:23:37,540
I got a call from
Jean's housekeeper.
1285
01:23:37,540 --> 01:23:42,660
I was out on Long Island at the
beach and she called and said,
1286
01:23:42,660 --> 01:23:44,100
"Jean-Michel's very sick.
1287
01:23:46,140 --> 01:23:50,860
"He's sweating, the room is very
hot, there's no air conditioning...
1288
01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:56,700
"..and he has foam coming out of
his mouth."
1289
01:23:56,700 --> 01:24:01,860
And I said, "Well, what are you...?
You know, call 911."
1290
01:24:10,540 --> 01:24:14,740
Someone called me and told me
Jean-Michel died.
1291
01:24:14,740 --> 01:24:17,820
And I said, "When?" And they told
me and I was like, "Oh, my God."
1292
01:24:19,860 --> 01:24:27,140
I wished it had have been me there
when he overdosed because...
1293
01:24:27,140 --> 01:24:31,420
I wish it had have been me,
now as a doctor,
1294
01:24:31,420 --> 01:24:33,220
cos I would have revived him.
1295
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:40,020
So in my mind, I play with
time sometimes, and I wish.
1296
01:24:56,820 --> 01:25:02,500
It's amazing and humbling
how Jean-Michel speaks to
1297
01:25:02,500 --> 01:25:05,100
not only my generation
1298
01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:08,580
but the generation of my children
1299
01:25:08,580 --> 01:25:11,580
and how powerful his voice is
1300
01:25:11,580 --> 01:25:13,660
even 30 years later.
1301
01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:25,260
Whether we're talking about
Charlie Parker or Jimi Hendrix,
1302
01:25:25,260 --> 01:25:27,820
there's a romantic aspect of drugs
1303
01:25:27,820 --> 01:25:32,940
in terms of Jean-Michel being linked
to the inspiration of his heroes.
1304
01:25:36,860 --> 01:25:41,260
His career goes beyond just
a normal career, becomes mythic.
1305
01:25:43,300 --> 01:25:45,140
I mean, he died at...
1306
01:25:45,140 --> 01:25:47,180
He was 27 in 1988.
1307
01:25:49,020 --> 01:25:54,460
People are buying into that whole
myth in addition to buying his work.
1308
01:25:54,460 --> 01:25:55,900
Thank you, Yuki. Congratulations.
1309
01:25:58,180 --> 01:26:02,260
What's interesting about the
auction breaking $100 million
1310
01:26:02,260 --> 01:26:06,100
is that I feel like the rest of
the world only understands greatness
1311
01:26:06,100 --> 01:26:10,180
by these consolidated values
that happen through the market.
1312
01:26:10,180 --> 01:26:13,820
But it confirms something
that many of us already knew -
1313
01:26:13,820 --> 01:26:16,620
how important he was to
the legacy of American art.
1314
01:26:20,060 --> 01:26:22,140
I wish my brother were here today.
1315
01:26:23,900 --> 01:26:27,620
This may have been what to happen
1316
01:26:27,620 --> 01:26:33,660
in order for his voice to be
as powerful as it is today.
111064
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.