All language subtitles for The Staircase - Chapter 7 - The Blowpoke Returns

We've been trying this case
for four months today.

Started May 5th, it's September 5th.

Then we're not paying any more
money, so forget about it.

So actually... the reason
for this meeting

is so that everyone knows
we're quitting!

OK. We did the cross.
Done your part.

That's right, hey, I can't do
any more, I'm tired.

All right, so, erm, this,

to me, is not an academic exercise
at all

because I have a real question
in my mind about,

a, whether we should put
on any evidence at all

and, b, if we should
put on evidence, what it should be.

The one thing I've absolutely
no doubt in my mind about

in this particular topic is
that you shouldn't testify.

I don't see any upside to that
and I see lots of downsides,

but obviously, Mike,
this is your decision.

You know, this is your life. Whether
you should testify is your call.

So, let's start with Bill and go
round the table

and hear what people have to say.

Er, first of all, I think I would
definitely put on the defence,

if that's the first issue
that we need to decide.

I think there are a couple of jurors
who I think are leaning to

a conviction at this point and
I think that the experts that

we've hired and the theories that
they've come up with

and the way they
explain things are so compelling

that it may shift those two jurors.

So I think we need to help some of
the jurors along.

Todd? Clearly you need a defence.

Prior to Radish's testimony,
I feel that everybody would have

voted not guilty. Erm, her...
Radish's testimony

was quite effective
with at least three jurors,

notably Rogers, and it will
take medical testimony

to get her back on the not guilty
side. OK. Ron?

We're in a hell of a good position
just with prosecution's evidence in.

Would we get an acquittal?
I don't know.

I believe we definitely would get
a hung jury.

And then you get a hung lawyer,
I'm not going through this again.

Sorry, Mike.

I just don't see a conviction,
but I see a hung jury at this point.

I don't see an acquittal and that's
a gamble that we have to take.

I want to say something else

and that is you are not
universally liked.

I know that might come as
a great shock to you.

I think there's a couple of people
on the jury that actually

don't like you very much.

You are perceived as very slick, you
know, very oily, by them, I think.

It's the old theme, you know,
"He's got a lot of money,"

most of which we've given to you,

and we've hired
high-powered defence to get him off.

Well, you're not going
to have permission

to put that particular segment
in the film.

Because one of David's... Because
one of David overriding goals,

every day of his life
that I've known him,

has been for everyone
to love him, all the time.

In that case, can I be excused,
your honour?

Um... Tom?

One of the of burdens of putting
on defence

is you lose some of the reasonable
doubt argument you otherwise have.

If you put experts on, you are on
under some burden to prove something

and it becomes a little bit more
of an equal match.

I think Radish... She's got some
very basic things she says that

no cross can take away, somebody
else has to come and take away,

these seven lacerations
or seven separate blows,

but you've got to have somebody else
explain either how that could happen

or that there aren't seven impacts,

so I think there's probably
some basic stuff,

at least on the medicine,
that needs to be answered. Mike?

I agree that we need a defence if
only to answer some of the questions

Radish raised and to fill
in a couple of the holes that

people might have, but not much.
OK.

I mean, here's the truth,

the two or three points the jury is
going to trip the most on is...

..the number of lacerations.

How the fuck do you get these
many lacerations in these locations

from falling down the stairs?
That was the main thing...

The only thing you've got to prove,

as far as I'm concerned, is that it
wasn't that damn blow poke...

They've fucking married
themselves...

I know... Yeah, they are.

I know that, so therefore...

I mean, Deborah Radish, I mean, it's
like superglue at this point.

I mean, the bottom line is
that I think, you know,

I can get up there in closing
argument and say,

"Let's just cut to the chase here.

"If you have a reasonable doubt
about whether that blow poke..."

Was even in the house. "..was in
the house on December 9th, 2001..."

It's not guilty.
"it's not guilty."

No, no, no, we need
a Johnnie Cochran phrase.

I've got one, I've got one.
Oh, what is it? What is it?

I've got a better one.
Is it called, "Blow, he must go"?

"If it ain't the poke...

"If it ain't the poke,
he ain't the bloke."

Oh! I like that.

"If it ain't the poke,
he's not going to the poke."

How about, "Deaver's got no hair
and the proof's not there."

Hello. Welcome again to Durham.
It's nice to see you.

I'm tired, I'm exhausted.

This is my brother...

my brother, Bill. Hi, Henry. Hello.

And my son, Todd. Hi, Henry. Hi.

And my son Todd.

Hi. How are you doing?

Deaver says all going
same direction.

No, there's clearly two different
directions, opposite directions.

Right. There's two drops
opposite direction,

more so the different angles. Right.

There's one here. This is...

Those are... These two
are same direction.

Deaver says all of these,
this, this, that and that,

all cast off from a blow over here.
From the same...

Same event. Same event?

Impossible.

Should be 84. 84, exactly.

84. Now they say, he's here,

five inches off this.

How do you...
And swinging the blow poke

from over there, from outside.
It's almost impossible.

So you can swing from the inside

and we just should see cast-offs
there. Right.

Five inches. Let me do that.

She is five feet two, 62 inches.

That's just 62 inches. Hit here.

So that can cause a multi-fracture
now. Multi-lacerations.

Laceration now.

And then she tried to somehow, dizzy
and fall, sit here,

maybe fall here and coughing,
breathing, OK?

That's why all the spatter... Some
time later the shoulder touch here,

probably again for support, that's
why there's so many fingerprints

here on the side, just slipped, yes.

Here, more likely,
she was already on the ground.

Something like that. OK.
Meanwhile, coughing. Right.

Bleeding. So...
HE COUGHS

Yeah. Exactly.

So that's why there's the shadow...
shadowing, in fact

You know, the bottom line here is
accidental fall. Right.

It's not consistent with a beating.
That's the bottom line.

It's going to be a long night.
Hey, good luck.

I think I want to start with,
"Are you aware that Agent Deaver

"has given this jury the opinion
that the blood staining

"in that stairway, er, indicates...
indicates it's a beating?"

"Yes, I know that."

"Do you agree with that?" "No."

"Do you have an opinion as to
whether it's more consistent with

"a beating or more consistent
with an accident?"

"Yes."

No, that's the last question.

Well, I'm going to come back.
You want to say that? OK.

Because you have to build up
on this. Yeah. Why?

Why do you want to start with...

Just so the jury understands that
you're there to disagree with him.

You don't have to have
them to understand.

I'm here, basically, I disagree.
If I...

If I agree, I don't show up.

That shows the direction. Do you see
what I mean? That's perfect.

So that's how we know
which direction.

And now we're going to move into
medium velocity.

That's a cast-off pattern.

The cast-off pattern,
it changes along the line,

the ratio, length and width.

You can't just base on one drop,
say, "That's a cast-off."

It can be any possibility.

All right, Henry, they're going to
send me in the morning. It's good.

It's good. Just dab it on.
That hair.

That much hair did all that?
No, this hair each time, you see.

You see that? Yeah. What are we...
What if it could be coughing?

Huh? What's for the coughing? Ink.

Come on. Ketchup or Jell-o,
you have your choice.

OK, Ron, you do it. See if maybe
your cough is better than mine.

Which one is ketchup?
This is ketchup.

HE SPITS

THEY LAUGH

You swallow it?

That's... Oh, no,
I've got to get my carpet cleaned.

That's a bad experience.

Right.

Now, if something in motion...

You hold this.

I hope this is not a new suit.

Let's say... I'm have a weapon.

Weapon, I have some... Here.

I got you.

Now, you have a cast-off pattern.

Cast-off pattern, as you can see,
is a line formation.

You have to look at the totality.

You can't just pick one
and so that's the one.

When I look at
the staircase ceiling,

as you probably recall, have a cat
picture on the north wall.

Er, above the picture,

nothing on the higher point of this
area,

so if an individual with a weapon,

say 40 inches long, hitting,

I should see something
on the ceiling, cast-off pattern,

some maybe argue, say, could be
chop the weapon a little bit,

but if you do that, very difficult
not to get some blood spatter

on whoever, er, suspect's clothing.

Focusing on that for a second,
did you inspect Mr Peterson's shirt?

Yes, I did inspect
Michael Peterson's shirt.

It's a dark blue shirt,

it's very difficult to see
with naked eyes,

so what we did is use a higher
magnification, use light sources,

and tried to look at any area,
see any spatter on that.

I didn't find any blood spatter.

Did you observe anything
in the scene that was inconsistent

with Kathleen Peterson having died
from an accident in the stairway?

When we look at the blood
spatter pattern,

we have to look at the totality,
the whole pattern,

instead of jumping
to focus on one small drop,

just like you go to a forest, you
want to see the whole forest first

before we examine individual trees.

Location one,
we can see this area contact,

that's another contact down coming
downwards, the blood goes downwards.

We have some spatter in this area

which the model can't really show
up, some spatter on the wall too.

This is consistent with Kathleen
have more likely hit the moulding,

erm, have some spatter.

Now location number two.

Here, the majority of this portion
of it is a multiple deposit

of stains - smear, spatter,
wipe and swipe pattern.

The rest of it, we see spatter goes
all different directions,

notable, as I say, approximately
4,000 or more.

So if a beating, you don't create
that much blood spatter.

This based on my experience, has
to be multiple origin, coughing,

shaking her hair,
shaking her hair, moving around.

Maybe some impact spatter there,
but just everything,

it's all together.

Dr Lee, based on your education and
job training and your experience

and on your own observations
of the findings in this case,

do you have an opinion
to a reasonable degree

of scientific certainty
as to whether the totality

of the evidence in this case

from the scene
is more consistent with

a beating or is more consistent
with an accident?

It's more consistent with
an accident. That's all I have.

Thank you, Doctor.

Let's take a 15 minute break.

MURMURING

Now, do you recall having a series
of conversations with Agent Deaver

after having looked at the model
and seeing the targets

that he created
and looking at the test...

Yes, we had some conversation
with him.

Do you recall telling him

that you had travelled
around the United States

and that this was some of
the best work that you had seen.

I tell him something,
he did some good work

and the model is beautiful, but
the model did not prove anything.

Let me show you a copy of your book.

You recall giving him
a copy of your book?

Yes, I generally give everybody of
my book, I want them to learn.

Do you recall signing an inscription
with the note, "To Agent Deaver,"

in this book when you were there?
Yes.

If you would, please,
read what the note says.

I say, "To Duane Deaver,
one of the best,

"keep up with your good work.
With warm regards, Henry Lee."

Yes.

You probably found
thousands of this same...

You wouldn't give it to him unless
you had felt that way, would you?

No, no, no, I give everybody
courtesy, that's Chinese culture.

I went to his place.

He extend a courtesy,
let me see what he has,

that's my upbringing, respect
other people, I give him a book.

And cannot write, say, "You're..."
I don't want to say,

You can't write on the book, say
somebody,

"You're totally wrong,"
or something.

What are you going to write?

His conclusion was wrong,
but he tried very hard.

I cannot say he did not try
to do good work.

Agent Deaver did a lot of work.

So you're agreeing then that
he did good work. I did that...

What do you want me to say -
he did lousy work on the book?

I cannot say that.

Just like I give Mr Rudolf a book,

I say, "You're one of the best
attorneys," but he's lousy.

I give him a book and, er...

Now, based on all that you saw...
Yes.

..and all that you did
or all that you didn't do,

is it your testimony before
this jury

that you can absolutely
conclusively exclude...

..that Kathleen Peterson
was beaten on the head?

I say my conclusion more consistent
with an accidental fall.

But you can't exclude that she was
beaten, based on all you did...

Nobody can exclude everything,
but the pattern tells me

the indication, everything,
more consistent with an accident.

Court TV called me and they want
some documents you said you have.

I guess it's from
this library stuff? Yeah.

Well, I guess they're too lazy to do
all the work you've done. Well, I...

Yeah. This has taken a lot of work.
I...

Nobody wanted to go through
these boxes.

I'm not going to give her
everything,

I was only going to give her
the one that I mentioned to her.

Well, unless she does something
really nice for me.

And then I'll give her the one
that I gave to Jim Hardin today.

Well, she bought you a very nice
dinner. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

But I didn't ask her to.
Well, that's true.

Let me see what it is.

I can see it, 4 to 11.

All right.

Boy, this is nicely organised.
Right, so... Course conference.

What I find really amazing about
all this is that he kept so much

of his life from such a young age
that he...

I guess he is narcissistic.

"You cannot kill and be unaffected.

"Like an animal who first tastes,
so is a man who kills,

"he is for ever disposed
to that thirst.

"When he sees how simple is the act,

"he is forever disposed to
that thirst.

"Perhaps he will never kill
again or ever want to,

"but always in his mind
is the knowledge of the act.

"The awareness of its simplicity...

"the peculiar reminder of elation,
sexuality,

"that accompanied the deed

"and too that he was licence
rewarded of something never caught."

Where the heck was that published?

See, this, he talks about Frissel
in here,

this is his A Time Of War book.

I've got to put it back with the
other stuff. I don't know, it's...

I don't know where it's stuck with
this but that's where I found it.

Death and sexuality are a bit of...

I copied one of these things here
that says sex and violence are

always intertwined in his
books and, believe me, they are.

Well, he's been adding
to this periodically.

Well, if you read through it,

you will see that there's some
homosexual military stuff. OK.

It's, like, in everything he writes.

Is the word "autobiography"
used on it at any place? No.

You don't actually see that word?

Does he refer to himself in first
person singular? First person.

First person? OK.
He's writing about himself.

I mean, he can come up with
something else, but I sure think

this one is him trying to figure out
what's wrong with him.

There's so many things in
here that correspond

with what I believe
I know about that book.

I can't believe anything my
brother-in-law tells us any more,

but what I thought I knew
about his life,

about him getting married,

going off to Vietnam and
certain other things

and this one thing at the back,

oh, I want it to be
that he's talking about himself.

It's this handwritten thing. Ah!

He talks about that he's
an aberrant personality,

that he's pure wicked,
that he's incapable of moral action.

I spent a long time reading his
handwriting, I'm getting to know it.

Yeah, oh yeah. So, I thought, "Wow!

"He knows something's wrong with him
and he's trying to figure it out

"and unfortunately he took it out on
my sister and some other people,"

but, er, the DA can't bring it in
unless Michael gets on the stand,

but there's not much else I can do.

What I couldn't find anywhere was
where he talked about how he planned

to seduce women and push them down
the stairs and collect their money.

That was like... I couldn't
find that. That's no big deal.

OK, that's the one where he talks
about happiness is murdering.

OK, so this is...

I don't think it's worth copying
all this for Laurie,

but it's a short story set
in Germany... Mm-hm... and...

..here we go.

"Hell is not being happy
and being happy is what?

"Being happy is doing what you want.

"Doing what you want
is an exercise in pleasure.

"Therefore being happy
is doing what gives you pleasure.

"Loving, sacrificing, murdering."

I could see the loving part...
and possibly even sacrificing.

Make two copies of that.
Two copies.

I'll make three.

Could you tell the jury
what biomechanics is?

Well, the word in biomechanics,

mechanics, is that study of forces
and motions on objects,

how objects deform, how they tear,
how they break, how they rupture.

When you focus it as biomechanics,

it ends up being
that same application to understand

the deformations and the forces
on the human body.

Have you supervised
the creation of an exhibit?

Could you describe to the members
of the jury what it was

and how it was created in terms
of what mathematics, what figures,

what science went into it?

Basically, we had to reconstruct
graphically the dimensions

of the scene and we had to...
from pictures of Ms Peterson

standing up, etc, to approximate
her height and shape

and we had to use all that
information to see if a scenario

of a fall is possible and,
in fact, if it's realistic...

..and, in fact, if it's likely.

You know, this is an action that
could happen any different ways,

but basically she lost her balance
and fell straight back,

nothing to let restrain herself
when she let go of the railing.

And how far did her head travel,
did the simulation head travel,

before it hit that moulding?

For this one,
it's about a 35 inches of arc.

OK, and that's how you're figuring
out the load that's created

that's sufficient to create
the lacerations,

but not sufficient to cause
a fracture? Right. OK.

This is one of the possibilities
that that doorjamb, its shape,

and how high she fell from that

could have accounted
for this injury.

The left arm has a contact,

the right arm has a contact
against the moulding.

Is there a bruise in that location?

Yeah, these are
the consistent elbow bruises.

Continuing with the contact points,
the back of her head,

above the neck, contacts that step.

We saw the first one from that first
contact and the second one

resting on that step
is responsible for these two.

From a sitting position, getting up,
you see where her feet are,

she slips out,
loses her balance there...

If she were taller,
if she was six foot five,

she'd probably
hit the east wall or something.

I mean, this is a dimensional issue,

so falling from that point
allows her to hit where she hits,

because that's her
characteristic length.

How many autopsies have you attended
where the ultimate opinion

of the pathologist
was that an adult person died

as a result of a beating death?

No, I didn't do that.
How many? None.

But not having had that
experience and not being

a forensic pathologist yourself,

you've come into this court room and
told this jury that Deborah Radish,

who actually performed the autopsy,
is just dead wrong about this?

What I'm saying is,

it's more likely that a fall impact
caused this

and we have biomechanical
evidence

that an impact with
a hollow cylinder wouldn't do it.

She is wrong,
if that's what she's saying.

Would you agree that a person
that's actually there performing

the work on a body,
whether it be surgical work

or work as
a forensic pathologist,

would you not agree that that person
who can actually look at the body,

feel the organs, feel the wounds,

might have a better vantage point
in making a final decision

about a case than a person later on
doing like what you did?

I don't know how she could determine
how those injuries occurred.

If she determined that those
injuries were the cause of death,

that's fine, but the causation,

the mechanism
by which these things occurred,

whether they're cut with a knife

or a cylinder or a flat object
or a fall,

I would be surprised if Dr Radish
would be able to do that.

If I know medical training,

they don't have causation
training by mechanics.

Sir, my question was,

whether you would agree that
a person that's actually there,

whether it be a doctor
or a pathologist

or even someone in your position,
actually there,

visualising a person's body,

looking at their wounds,
feeling their wounds,

measuring their wounds,

looking at all the different
things on the body,

would you not agree that a person
with that vantage point would

really have an advantage in making
a decision in a case like this?

Making a decision...

A person that's right there
with their hands, right there,

with the eyes right there.

Not on the causation,
the event that caused the injuries.

I don't believe just by being there,
you have sufficient insight

and knowledge to determine how those
injuries were caused.

OK.

Somebody, and it was probably
on Court TV said,

you know, the defence...

You know, they haven't injected a
single bit of emotion in this case.

It's been science, science, science,

when, in fact,
this is two dead women.

That is a problem from... Just from
the point of view I'm talking about,

which is the story.
That's what I do for a living.

I just tell stories
and everyone wants to hear

a story from the time
they're little babies -

this is the story and better
a nice story than a scary story.

I do see that where we haven't
told a story,

except in the sense that here are
the forensics

and that's cold and whatnot.

But I don't know how
you get in to the story,

anybody's story without going into
the other side, the bad stuff,

that everybody doesn't particularly
want to have come out in their life,

because for every good thing,
there's...

If there's not at least a bad thing,
somewhere back there

there's a different spin on it
and it can come back. I don't know.

I don't know. Well, it's a razor's
edge and I think the prosecution

has used every dirty trick they can

to do character assassination
on Mike

and they've taken every little point
that could possibly have been made

and twisted it
in a light most unfavourable.

You know, there has been a lot of
emotional testimony there

and that... when there gets to be
debates in the jury room

between... on the science,

if you've got swing people,
what they fall back on?

A lot of those people could
fall back on emotion.

What can we do about that?

They have no neighbours,
nobody here within the community,

you're well-known, Kathleen's well
known, nobody really from Nortel,

Caitlin, who they've had access to,
has been in court every day.

If there had been anything negative

that any of these people could
have offered,

they would have brought him in.

To me, that is strong,

the fact that they've had Caitlin
there and if there's anything

within the relationship, they would
have brought her in.

Let me interject.
Now is this something you can use,

that you could turn to and say,
"Look..." Yes.

Oh, OK, all right.
It's a new argument.

So the lack of what they put out,
to me, is stronger

than anything else.

I think that if we open up the door
to anything with your character,

your ass has gone.

I mean, if the forensics were doing
poorly and we thought,

"God, we really need to give
something to the people,"

then maybe you take a risk,
but I think the forensics,

it's gone about as well
as it can go,

you know, other than somebody
magically saying,

"Seven lacerations disappear."
Mm-hm.

Is there anybody who is in
favour of calling any other witness,

including you, Michael,
most importantly, you? No,

because I'm very realistic.

Nobody's insulting me,
I am a big boy,

and hell happens with my life,

so, yes, I understand

and it would be probably
infinitely more negative

in the long run, so drop it.

OK.

Meeting adjourned. OK.

MUFFLED CONVERSATION

If you want to look at the pool...

Does that suit you, Dave?

They could go in this way and do
whatever they're going to do,

see the pool and come exit this way.

Now, what we do is we put the...

We made sure the chair was along
that line there.

Cos it was in the down position.

Yeah, and we tried to match it
so that, remember,

Deaver said it would match that.
Right.

OK.

Oh, I know what
I did want to look at.

Put out all the family photos.
That's right. Oh, absolutely.

Put away all the porn, right?
That's right. All that.

No, I'm only teasing,
I'm only teasing.

You did see the blow poke over
there, right. Oh, I missed it.

We haven't seen it.

I think I've seen enough.

We'll come back up this way.

A lot of them paid
attention to the blood spatter,

even kneeling down,
looking down, squatting,

looking at the dried blood

that was on the moulding
of the doorway,

so they were really interested
in the blood spatter?

Were they talking notes?

Well, they all took notes but they
would come out of the stairwell

and take notes, and go back in, get
another look and take more.

Do you think they wanted
a spatial sense

of whether there was room to...
Well, like I said, earlier,

some of them stood
in the stairwell,

went up about three or four steps
and kind of waved their arms

to kind of get a sense
if you can fall back.

They seemed to be consuming
a lot.

It's one thing to see it
in the pictures,

it's another thing to see
it in person.

How did the blood look? It was dry.

Ron, what are you doing today?

I need you to come to Chapel Hill.

They found the blow poke.

No, THE blow poke.

They found the blow poke.

Hi, Ron. You fucked up
a good golf game. Well, sorry.

You could have gone and played golf.
I didn't...

I had my golf bag on my shoulder,
walking out the door.

Did you really? And then I saw
Rudolf Maher's, so I picked up.

I shouldn't have picked this up,
but I did. All right, erm...

Let's start with me understanding
completely what happened,

all right, so take me...

Take it from the top, Clayton.
I mean, give me the full rundown.

Well, I went downstairs, first thing
I did, I looked at the car,

I looked in the trunk, then I looked
around at the side,

cos that's where the tools are...

OK. And then I came round the
other side and I just saw it there.

It was just right past the trunk,
just sitting there. OK.

So, then I went and got
Margaret and brought her down,

just to make sure,
cos I couldn't believe it.

It was sitting right there.

Then they went upstairs and got Dad.
And what was he doing?

I was reading.
Almost going to sleep.

And Margaret, you went to get him?

Yeah, I just yelled,
"Dad, we found the blow poke.

"Come on, let's go."

We were terrified,
we were freaked that, you know,

literally freaked
as to what happened,

so Margaret got her video
camera out, I got the...

And she got the tape recorder

and we were going and I'd called Tom
by this time, and, you know,

if the cops show up,
we're just going to...

"You can't come into this house
until my attorney, who is..."

I thought you were going to show up
on a motorcycle, appear.

So now, you're waiting on Tom,
what are you doing

while you're all waiting on Tom?

We went in the den and Tom said,
"I want to talk to you, Dad,"

and said, "I'm going to ask you,
would you bet your life

"on that blow poke?" and I know
exactly what he was doing

and what he was saying.

So, I said, "No, absolutely,

"I would bet my life on that blow
poke, unless the cops..."

cos we're still going through
this conspiracy thing,

"unless the cops came, got blood
and put blood on the goddamn thing."

Just be careful.

But how the fuck does that get
missed? How did they miss that, Ron?

Looks like a shower curtain. On the
edge, it looks like a tiny little...

I don't know, I don't know, but what
difference does it make?

It's clearly old.

This is not something that Mike
bought in the last six months.

It's 38 and... It's 38.

You need to go have a talk
with Mike.

I need to make sure that if
we test this fucking thing...

Nice work. Let's go talk.

It seems to me that, erm...

..from a strategic point of view,

I don't have any idea
how this ends up cutting.

I don't think it hurts us
unless the jury feels

like we've staged this in some way.
Yes, yes, yes.

I understand that, Mike, but...

And I think the way we...
It's too preposterous.

OK, it may be too prosperous,

but it is what it is and so it seems
to me that what we need to do

is figure out the best way of
revealing this,

so as to minimise any chance that
the jury is going to feel

like we have staged this
in some way.

I wouldn't buy it in a minute.
My God. Well...

Mike, I don't know what else to do.

I know, I understand that,
I do, I just cannot...

I think this is terrible.

Well, can we get
a professional photographer over,

so that we can actually get
close-ups of the little bugs

and really good pictures of
the cobwebs and all that stuff?

I mean, you know, studio quality
pictures, whatever that takes.

I do not see how this can be turned
into anything good.

HE COUGHS

Now look on here
how many cobwebs you have.

We have to hit it just right
with the light. See right there?

See that group right there? Yeah.
See another group right there?

That's on the front,
was the side here.

So you've got to be careful
when you do this here.

You know, there's all kinds
of filaments attached.

Set it up. That's it.

I got to get your fingerprints
on there somehow.

Somebody squeezing it too tight
there on the middle.

It's not going in.

Right here, Todd. You need to be
careful about this here. OK.

I'm going to let it go
for a minute. OK.

Let me grab it. OK.

You move your hands.

Careful it doesn't pull
through all the way.

Yeah, got it. Fuck!

Now I've got to get upstairs
and see about this.

That's good. That's good.

Goddamn, this looks like something
out of Star Wars. Don't you think?

This looks like Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Here, Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Stop fucking with our evidence.
Don't you think? Obi-Wan Kenobi.

You can't bounce it around
cos the shit's already on it.

All right, all right, all right.
Be careful. So stop.

So what's the plan?

Er, we're going to plead you
tomorrow.

LAUGHTER Hey, I'm ready.

I don't care.
It's this shit I can't handle.

Right, we need to call
Clayton. You do? Yep.

Why do you need Clayton? Because
I think we need to establish...

Let's put it this way.

Suppose we had... Suppose Clayton
had found that three months ago.

All right. All right,
during jury selection,

would there be any doubt in your
mind as we sat there

and listened to Hardin talk about
the blow poke

and how they got
rid of the blow poke,

and the blow poke's
the murder weapon

and Deborah Radish says,

"Oh, yeah, this is it
because it's hard enough

"but not too hard," would there
be any doubt in your mind

that we'd want to put
that blow poke into evidence?

No. I guess. The only thing...

The only fly in the ointment is that
we found it last night,

not three months ago, right? I mean,
let's all get clear on that.

Isn't that really the issue?

If we had found this... If you had
found it six months ago,

would you have any doubt in your
mind about whether we should use it?

Of course not, no.
No. You wouldn't either.

We'd be sitting there salivating.

We'd be waiting for that magic
moment when I took it out.

I don't want Clayton on the stand,
that's all.

They're just going to kill him,
I know that and you know that.

Freda Black is, you know...
What are they going to do?

They're going to establish that when
he was a freshman in college,

he got in trouble?

You know, they're going to
cross-examine him

about his credit card debt?

Yeah. Yeah, OK.

He's got a pending driving
without... A revoked licence.

That's still pending in court here.
He had a DWI two years ago.

All right, I'm going, I've seen
enough of you for today. Be cool.

- Bye, Mike.
- Thanks for a great Sunday

Hey, listen, anything else that
comes up

that's really an emergency...
Call Hardin.

That's right, don't call me.

Oh. And I don't answer the phone
at 2.30. I knows. Ever.