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My name is Alessia D’Andrea

and I’m a singer-songwriter.

Is that all?

Yes.

It’s 10.38€.

Here you are, Giulia.

The journey about to begin

is something completely new for me

and that’s something I really like.

I’ve already boarded many trains.

Well, I’ve also missed many trains.

Some have completely derailed

while others have taken me beyond what I dared imagine.

I sang in front of 100,000 people,

was broadcast live on radio and television,

international collaborations, prizes...

However, given I’m here having to introduce myself to you

something’s obviously gone wrong.

Is it life’s fault

or just coincidences

or my choices?

I don’t know...

But I do want to tell you this story.

Italy was second-to-none at the time

think of “Area” or “Banco del Mutuo Soccorso”

or “Osanna”...

Riccardo, give us two beers please.

Lager? Yes. Two lagers.

They really were amazing times.

Indeed they were.

Genesis, Emerson Lake & Palmer,

King Crimson, Jethro Tull...

Jethro Tull! Of course!

Remember crazy Ian Anderson? Sure!

In Bologna, at the “Aqualung” concert,

coming onstage, hopping on one foot, playing his oblique flute...

Just “flute”.

What?

I’m saying it’s just called a flute,

Ian Anderson plays the flute.

Yes, yes of course,

Sure. But it still looked oblique.

He’s a giant.

Plus, if it hadn’t been for psychedelic music

We never would’ve gotten progressive rock.

In my opinion there’s blues as well.

Of course, blues is the origin of it all.

If there hadn’t been a Muddy Waters

or Elvis-

What do you mean, Elvis? He came much later.

I was just saying-

Don’t “just say”!

Chuck Berry, if you really want to open your mouth!

But it was Muddy Waters who started it all.

What if it was Rosetta Tharpe who started it all?

Who?

Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

The first woman to play Carnegie Hall.

A wonderful artist, her way of singing and playing encompasses everything-

gospel, rhythm & blues... The real godmother of rock'n'roll.

Yes ok. But I think she arrived much later than Muddy Waters.

No, no- they were actually contemporaries.

Rosetta Tharpe and Muddy Waters played together.

Her fans number people like Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix,

Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck to cite but a few.

Every time I spoke to the pioneers of rock'n'roll

from Bo Diddley to Chuck Berry and Little Richard

they all claimed to have invented rock'n'roll.

I actually think it was Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

She's called the godmother of rock'n'roll

because she was there first.

She had that electric guitar and she was recording in the 1930s.

Not only had rock'n'roll not been invented yet,

it hadn’t even been imagined.

So, inevitably, all subsequent rock'n'roll artists

have inherited from her the way of playing, of holding the guitar

and of course, her way of being, which was her staple.

You hear that in the song “Rock Me”

and the way that she plays,

that intricate, driving guitar style.

The bluesman’s playing-style is interior:

he tries to externalise his pain by communicating,

first with himself, then everyone else.

Rock'n'roll is ostentatious, it’s cheeky, almost obscene.

She really invented her own style.

She was the daughter of a missionary, so she was drawing on gospel music

and swing,

the sacred, the secular, fusing it all together

in a way that was very upbeat, very powerful.

And then a really powerful voice with that too.

It wasn’t just about the way she played the guitar and the soloing

but also the way she was, onstage with her guitar.

And people at the time said she played like a man,

like that was the amazing compliment:

“You play like a man, well done!”

Not bad for a woman, huh?

Ok, but that was an isolated case.

Who? This girl or Rosetta?

Huh?

The girl or Rosetta?

Both of them! Everyone knows rock is male.

Sure, of course it’s male.

Male like Patti Smith, Janis Joplin;

like PJ Harvey or Tori Amos. Like Alanis Morissette.

There are also those who don’t play rock but carry it within their souls.

Are you a musician by any chance?

- Who? Me? - Yes.

Naaah.

But yes, you’ve named many great artists, I must say.

But consider Fleetwood Mac

or Jefferson Airplane. They’re bands, right?-

where the woman is an appendage.

They’re not cacti, what are you talking about!?

Jefferson Airplane would’ve been a good band without Grace Slick.

But they wouldn’t have left a mark in history.

And then Grace Slick comes in,

cool and elegant and stylish,

and she's a great songwriter as well.

So we hear “White Rabbit”, which I love,

quite mischievous and mysterious,

one of the psychedelic songs of the '60s,

and then “Somebody to Love”:

just real classics of that era.

It’s not just because she contributed “White Rabbit” and “Somebody to Love”

but also because she changed their public perception

and the way in which they began

structuring both songs and albums.

And she, along with Janis Joplin, is kind of epitomising

that cultural change in the '60s, in pop music and rock music.

There was a real opening up for female artists at that point.

The appendage.

Exactly! What about Stevie Nicks from Fleetwood Mac, for example?

She authored all the band’s hits.

The blonde one?

The one with the billowing skirts, holding a tambourine?

Women are able to come through on their own terms

and express their personalities

through their music in very different ways,

whether it's Janis Joplin with that very raw bluesy style,

or Grace Slick with a kind of cool,

slightly studied psychedelic thing,

and then you have Stevie Nicks with her wonderful hippie skirts

and poetic, almost witchy songwriting.

And that's what's remarkable about that era.

I think it then paved the way for women in the 1970s

to come to the fore as solo artists

and really start to express themselves creatively,

rather than just being secondary to male artists.

You seem to know so much!

No, I’m just passionate about it. It’s all well-known stuff.

No that’s not true.

The things you say need to be divulged.

With the arrival of figures like Grace Slick, Janis Joplin

and Stevie Nicks there’s an obvious change in the female presence onstage,

but also in the male audiences’ perception:

before, they were simply the object of desire (which they still are),

but in these cases the woman becomes an active moment,

as in, now the woman comes onstage and says

“Ladies and gentlemen, I’m in command, I decide.”

And this happens in different ways.

Stevie Nicks, for example, was much more sensual,

more desirable in a traditional way

but also in an auditory way.

Grace Slick was both submissive and aggressive,

at least as far as her image conveyed.

Janis Joplin was rock'n'roll

at its craziest and most unrestrained.

Janis Joplin, when she first came out, she really stood out

because she was so different to what had come before.

She was wild, strong,

she wasn't just standing there looking decorative

in the way that so many female singers up to that point

in the '50s and '60s.

They were expected to stand on stage and wear nice little dresses,

and she didn't do any of that.

And then her voice: she sang this really deep-felt blues.

She behaved like a man in the sense that she had

no intention of relinquishing her femininity.

However, what she wanted was to completely

overturn the record-buying market at that time.

Before she came along, females were mostly folk-singers

or if it really went well for them, band-leaders.

But there was no-one who’d get on stage and behave like a male rock star

She had her wild hair, her beads,

she had pockmarked skin because she had bad acne,

but she was completely herself.

so her great revolution was to be herself, of course

and to bridge the gap between genders

simply by bringing rock'n'roll to the stage with all her strength.

Janis Joplin had a limit in that she struggled with addiction,

mainly drink.

She led a life of excess,

she didn't really know where to put the limits on herself,

and she approached that hedonistic lifestyle

the same way she approached her music and her singing: with no filter.

I think she was somehow devoured by her great dream.

Her dream was to be successful,

to obliterate the sense of inadequacy she carried

and to finally be accepted and loved.

All great artists don’t just want to be appreciated, respected or applauded.

They want to be loved.

They are three female figures who turned the sky upside down

as in, after them came other artists

like Blondie’s Debbie Harry or PJ Harvey or Patti Smith of course

who, under different guises, take up the reins of rock and other musics.

Ale, you’re playing!

This place refuses to die.

“This place refuses to die” and Alessia is well aware of it

because her history and her life are intertwined with this recording studio

which we call “Il Frantoio”, the olive mill.

Many different international artists have come through here;

there’ve been showcases, mini gigs,

gatherings between friends, rehearsals, recordings...

This studio was alive-

then Alessia decided to stop

and this place stopped with her.

Seeing it covered in tarps, dust- immobile-

has been a reflection of her own downer,

her own paralysis.

Hi my love.

I’ve bought bread.

I’m sorry but I finished work late because there was a problem.

What’s wrong with you? What happened?

I went to the studio today.

...and...?

I know that look.

When you tell people you’re a musician they respond in one of two ways-

The ones who go “Wow, that’s really cool!”

but actually

if you don’t have thirty dates in major venues

they look at you like a loser

and then there are those like Andrea

who look you straight in the eye and seem to ask “When will you grow up?

You’re still chasing your dreams?”

Now I will explain to him how it felt in the studio.

He needs to understand this fire inside me,

he has to understand me.

Everything still works- the lights, the sound system, the piano is still in tune!

That place is alive, Andrea, it’s a sign!

Listen, I’ve spoken to Giovanna the pharmacist,

there’s still an opening for a job.

It’s a permanent contract, Alessia.

You don’t know if the people around you are

there for you or for what you represent.

Which is why Janis Joplin has become such a myth- she never wanted to hide herself,

she never wanted to play at being a superwoman.

Everything she used to say, including her famous

“On stage I make love to 25,000 different people then I go home alone” quote

makes perfect sense from this perspective.

She tried desperately not to become someone, but to be herself.

When she found out that not even music could

gift her this the dream ended, it all ended.

Fuck it!

Hello?

Hey.

Oh, hi. What’s up?

How are you?

All ok.

I wanted to let you know that after two years, I’ve written another song.

Good.

Is everything alright?

Yes, all good. Great.

Anyway listen Ca, something with Andrea doesn’t feel right any more.

Really?

I don’t know. He sees me behind a counter.

I... don’t know. It’s not working.

This relationship is no longer doable- he doesn’t feel what I feel.

Many artists have had to endure tormented love affairs.

Tina Turner:

like a phoenix she only rose from the ashes after she left her husband, Ike.

Even Carole King lived through a toxic relationship,

only after ridding herself of that was she able to serenely pursue her career.

But disappointments can bring about positive things too.

For example, that’s what pushed Alanis Morissette to write “You Oughta Know”,

her most successful song.

You belong to that generation of women who let the world know

that women can make rock music

as good as men, or even better.

What did it mean to you?

Well, when I was in college I left home

because I could not be contained

and I did not want to do what they wanted me to do.

And I listened to Bob Dylan on the radio.

It was like a seed lying in the ground,

and I heard his voice and I heard his words, like

“Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command”.

And I was like, “Yes, they are. We are, and I am.”

Rock has always been

male, masculine and chauvinistic

so women have always had a hard time.

The Italian music industry has always had a very serious issue with women

and I believe it’s in very good company, along with all the other industrial,

social and economic structures in Italy.

In the music world, it’s even more evident because...

I’ll give you an example. A little more than a year ago

The FIMI, which is the Italian federation

regulating major record labels-

and within its borders are all the CEOs of these major labels-

published a tweet to assert that FIMI is very supportive towards women

and, like every year, was fighting

for more inclusiveness in the music world

but only has men on its board of directors.

And also in classical music. I had a famous teacher.

I told him I was going on tour with Bob Dylan

and he went, “No.”

And it's like, “Don't come back.”

- No? - Oh yeah.

“I can't believe you have left

the elevated world of classical music.”

There are no women in charge of major record labels.

There are no women holding power in the arts sector.

Look at Sanremo:

only eight women presenters in seventy-four editions

on their own,

not as assistants or co-presenters.

Not one of those eight were ever asked to do it again

which is almost unheard of- most of them repeat.

None of these women, or the others

who were co-presenters with men

have ever been artistic directors

so in seventy-four years

the participating songs have always been selected by men

so it’s obvious there’s a problem

because if it’s only men deciding who participates

and a man decides who goes to Festivalbar

and another man who goes to Wind Awards

and another man decides who participates at Power Hits Estate-

No woman ever decided the line-up for the May Day megaconcert,

men are in charge of the MI AMI festival...

It’s all in men’s hands.

“I want to get out of here, I want to do what I want with my life and my music.

I am not gonna sit in an orchestra

and just play the music on the sheet music.”

I heard contemporary music,

“I don't want to do music of 500 years ago.

I'm alive now!

They were alive then, I'm alive now.

I want to be a part of the music that's alive now!”

And there was no violin in it, except in string sections.

They gave you the music and you'd play your little part,

and I'm like,

“No, I hear something else.

I want to be a soloist,

in a new way.” And that didn't exist yet.

That's what you did, exactly.

You're like an electric guitar as well, with your violin.

It's not just a violin.

No. A lot of rock guitar players,

including some I've played live with,

they go, “And the rock guitar solo

will be done by Scarlet!”

Many string players

I opened the door for, I believe,

because there were no violin, viola,

cello lead players in bands at the time.

I believe the world will start changing

only when women hold positions of power,

not when the men in power give

them a chance to prove their worth.

And it was considered a sweet instrument,

not a kick-ass power instrument

that would compete with a lead guitar.

Also your look was stunning, amazing.

It was not a sweet baby doll playing the violin.

That's real rock'n'roll!

Ca, thank you for making this incredible meeting happen.

Women have always had to fight three times harder than men.

All they were allowed to do was sing, if they played as well it was problematic.

Then if they composed, forget it! Not even Joni Mitchell.

I think you’re right- I don’t want to become a suppository in a blister-pack.

I’m not setting foot in that pharmacy.

Whenever a hugely talented woman appeared

everyone would instantly attempt to transfer

her greatness to a male counterpart.

This is, of course, a massive mistake.

So instead of thinking of Joni Mitchell as a great artist

people saw her as a female version of Bob Dylan

so it was always the female version of a pre-existing male.

I've always been amazed that a lot of the early press around Joni Mitchell

was that she was this kind of winsome female folk artist,

looking pretty and pleasing men,

when actually that was not the case at all.

She's always been a really strong musician,

instrumentalist and composer.

I think part of the problem was that she dated some very famous men,

her colleagues in the music world, which is not surprising:

you go out with musicians because they share your culture and point of view.

So she had relationships with Graham Nash,

David Crosby, James Taylor, Leonard Cohen.

She had the pick of the crop because she was such a great musician as well.

And I think she was treated a bit unfairly because of that.

For instance, Rolling Stone magazine

featured her under the headline “Rock's Old Lady”,

as if that's all she was, just an adjunct to the famous men in her life.

I don’t believe that, throughout music history,

any male artist has ever been defined as “Joni Mitchell with trousers”

and it’s never happened for two reasons, maybe three.

We’re certainly used to seeing the world from a male perspective

therefore it’s easier for us to call a woman a man in a skirt

because we’re conditioned to start by looking at men

and only subsequently at women

because men, of course, comprise the majority of players on the scene

but it’s also because, thanks to a set of structures present in our society,

if you compare a man to a woman

you automatically give the impression

of questioning his sexual identity and orientation,

like he’s “effeminate”, referring to the sexual sphere,

which didn’t happen when they

likened Joni Mitchell to Bob Dylan in a skirt.

Nobody meant Joni Mitchell had masculine traits, which wasn’t the case.

So I actually think with this last point we’ve come

back full circle to the beginning of the argument

meaning, we make comparisons with the feminine when we want to cause offense

which tells us something chilling about ourselves.

Joni Mitchell was extraordinarily talented-

I believe one of the most talented musicians in music history,

not just among women,

also demonstrated by the fact that, having started with folk music,

she went for much more sophisticated atmospheres.

Her talent was to instantly

capture the zeitgeist of the era.

She wrote the most beautiful song

about Woodstock without even having been there.

Joni said of her “Blue”

album “There’s hardly a dishonest note in the vocals.

At that period of my life I had no personal defenses,

I felt like a cellophane wrapper on a pack of cigarettes.”

Done with this bullshit?

“I had no secrets,

couldn’t fake strength.

Or happy.”

But we’ll discuss this next time!

Hey! You interrupted me!

Yeah sorry I didn’t mean to.

Andre’, I need you.

We can’t- at least one of us needs to work, no?

I’d like to play you the first song I’ve written in two years.

Can you guess what I’d like to do? Huh?

Have a normal life.

So leave, because I’ve got to play.

Do you know what?

Go fuck yourself, you and your shitty music.

Do you want to know what one of the worst things is for me?

When your happiness doesn’t match other people’s,

when others aren’t even a tiny bit happy about your achievements.

And when I say “others” and think about the people with whom you share your life,

it’s not something I’m prepared to accept any longer.

Music is my refuge

and my space, in which I can truly be myself

and I don’t believe others have this place,

which really annoys them

having to look into the eyes of someone who still hasn’t let her dreams die.

Alessia’s experience has led her- and us- to investigate and discover

that all the amazing female musicians who’ve left a mark in music history

have had complicated careers- had to fight for their dreams.

The problem is that we live in a world built on Western culture

and Western culture only pays attention to winners, not to losers

so it chases numbers, it chases success.

People who choose to throw everything away- including success-

to chase after the freedom to keep searching are few and far between.

Despite the difficulties, the fears and doubts, they kept going

and for us this idea has proven infectious,

so much so that we decided to discuss the lives of these amazing artists.

False’

I don’t understand the point of a music documentary without music.

There’s no way we can do it then.

You have no idea

what music rights would cost for a documentary

about all of rock’s greatest female artists.

So what are we going to do?

It’s not like we have to make a fucking musical.

If you want to listen to them you can find their songs on the app.

Alternatively we can do it like scientific articles,

we can list all the links on the film’s website

so they can listen to the original versions

rather than the few-second snippets I could insert into this film.

Links? In a film?

Sorry, but weren’t you a singer-songwriter?

Don’t you have your own material?

Of course.

You’re not scared of playing, are you?

So we will tell your story.

Let’s tell the story of these three deranged people

who decided to make this film despite all the obstacles.

I love this idea.

But don’t think for one second I can be an actor.

In fact I’m just an actor playing the part of this film’s director.

We, on the other hand, are not actors.

No, we’re the real thing.

“Noio volevam savoir l’indiriss”.

We tried... We’ve come to Caterina Caselli’s court

at the Galleria del Corso, number four,

to try to figure out how to get to meet her and let her know about this film

because we think someone like her

who’s a record producer and also an artist is perfect-

- And music executive! - Definitely!

It’s perfect for our film.

We tried...

They told us to send an email.

We’re enroute to Salerno

which isn’t on our route.

Our next stopover is Rome

and from there-

from there we’ll board a plane to London

where Lucy is waiting for us-

our very own Lucy O’Brien-

to do this interview and discuss these women in rock

Great! Wish us luck!

We couldn’t tell these women’s stories

without consulting the experts in the field-

journalists, but also music critics.

Some of them refused, others didn’t respond at all.

However, four people immediately embraced our project enthusiastically,

without reservations.

We got Massimo Cotto, a well-known Virgin Radio presenter

but more than that, he’s a rock music expert.

Michele Monina, he really cares about being defined

as a music critic rather than as a journalist,

one of the sharpest pens we have in Italy

and someone who’s spent a lot of time on working

with women and promoting their careers,

particularly within music festivals-

he actually created a festival for female singer-songwriters,

especially upcoming artists.

Lucy O’Brien, professor at the University

of West London and columnist for The Guardian

who’s compiled a history of women in music- all music,

not just rock- entitled “She Bop”.

She started out as a musician in an all-girl band

hanging out with other musicians, going to gigs,

she realised it was a world that needed describing from a female perspective.

When we contacted her

she responded enthusiastically,

inviting us to meet her in London as soon as possible

so that’s what we did.

Once we got there we visited some iconic locations

for example, the one at 17 St Anne’s Court,

the one next to the Marquee Club in Soho,

one of the landmarks in music history- Trident Studios-

some really amazing albums were recorded in that place

like the David Bowie ones or Lou Reed’s-

that’s where the Beatles recorded “Hey Jude” for example-

even just walking through those streets was emotional.

Today we went to the place where the Marquee Club used to be

So the Marquee Club was a rock club in Wardour Street, in London's West End.

David Bowie, Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin,

The Who, The Yardbirds and Jethro Tull have all performed on this stage.

And it was famous really for having rock bands.

From the second half of the Seventies the Marquee Club changed.

Punk exploded onto the London music-scene

so that same stage would’ve had Joy Division,

The Clash and also our Siouxsie and the Banshees

and the jury’s still out as to whether any other women stood on that stage.

The official account is that amongst all those male bands, over all that time,

only one woman has performed there,

and that's Siouxsie from Siouxsie and the Banshees.

There may have been a few lesser-known female artists in supporting roles,

but I think it shows the sexism of the rock industry,

that for so long it wouldn't let women in,

or not in a really leading role

within the genre.

The Wardour St location was the seminal Sixties one,

but now it’s not there anymore.

Trying to convince famous artists-

or rather their management companies- to take part in this documentary

hasn’t been easy for us.

Some answered by wishing us good luck with the project, others didn’t answer at all

resulting in innumerable complications for us.

Ok, we’re travelling

A bit tired...

We’re going to get a...

Already tired...

We’re going to... a concert!

We can’t give up on the chance,

the opportunity to meet Patti Smith!

We tried every possible way of contacting her

her Italian management,

her personal assistant, but to no avail- zero response.

We also journeyed to Matera when we found out she was doing a concert there

with the hope of being able to speak to her.

Well, it’s raining but we made it to Matera

and now we’re about to reach the auditorium

where Patti Smith will be playing tonight

so fingers crossed! Let’s go!

Once there we tried to bribe bodyguards, security people etc. But it didn’t work

until we met an angel, Filippo- who had an Access All Areas pass

and he turned out to be our man.

We singled him out and he was so sweet

that he instantly took our project to heart

and brought us inside the auditorium while the concert was taking place.

Patti Smith amongst the sassi that speak to her heart...

The American singer and poet

visited the UNESCO World Heritage site, finding it enchanting

then met students and fans, including two journalists from Calabria

who have come to Matera specifically to shoot a film.

We are making a docufilm about music

and women- mostly women with a rock'n'roll attitude

and Patti Smith is perfect for our purposes.

Female rock giants who had a difficult life in the name of rock.

We made numerous attempts to get close to her after the gig

but they were all futile

Thanks to Filippo we managed to gatecrash

her press conference in the sassi, there in Matera

but even that didn’t work

apart from managing, through her son Jackson who plays in her band,

to get a letter explaining this project delivered to her

and that too went nowhere. No response.

But we’re left with a doubt:

would she have been in our film if we’d managed to speak to her directly?

Why don’t you send your songs to someone in the industry?

Naaah, I’m not twenty anymore,

sending demos all over the place hoping someone will call me back.

Fine, what about some old contact then? Can’t you get in touch with any of them?

Yes, yeah sure. The only problem is that my songs aren’t exactly TikTok material

and you know how these things go nowadays...

You’re really silly.

What about sexualising women?

Yeah, that's a subject,

because culture says women should look like this

and they should always look like they're 25 years old.

It's like with actresses: you reach a certain age and there's no more work,

for most of them.

It takes a long time to change a culture.

And since men run the world...

That's a really, really tough thing.

Some of the girls I see on TikTok

that are pretty good players

look like porn stars,

and they get hundreds of thousands of followers,

and I'm going: this is not helping!

I think the main problem for women

in the music industry for so long,

and I think it still exists to a degree,

is that, number one, they need to be decorative, they need to look sexy.

And there's this widespread belief throughout the industry

that a woman needs to have a sexy image in order to sell the music.

And that viewpoint is proving very difficult to budge.

And this is more so when female artists

are signed to major labels,

major record companies,

where they're expected to be obedient.

Maybe it was because of my bad luck with record labels.

I met all sorts:

some wanted to give me a contract and revolutionize my image,

both artistically and aesthetically

others wanted to give me a contract and get rid

of the team I was working with on my project

still others did give me a contract

but ended up ruining my project, which had been going outstandingly well...

A Frank Zappa interview comes to mind, which I’ll quote.

He’s discussing the old Sixties cigar-chomping music executives

and unfavourably comparing them to their hip young counterparts in the Eighties

He says that at least the old guys were brave

maybe lacking in foresight, but still willing to give it a shot

unlike these fashionable hip young executives

who dictate what people can see or listen to in the music sector.

These youngsters pose a much greater threat

to art than the cigar-chomping old guys.

I dread to think what he’d say

of the business if he were alive today.

You are the one who has to find a solution,

I have no idea what it is! You’re the one who needs to figure it out, not me!

Yes. See what you can do, ok? There! Yes.

Long time no see, how are you?

I’m fine, how about you?

Busy. And as you can see, in the process of relocating.

So what’s up?

All ok. I haven’t done anything for a while though.

The pandemic, right? Don’t tell me. It slowed us all down- a real mess.

If only the pandemic had been the reason. Better not talk about it.

But Rita, there is a little something new looming.

Oh that’s great! Well done, that’s the way.

Yes, I’m composing a new album.

Very good!

It’s a very confidential and personal project.

So far I have a handful of tracks

but I feel they’re all connected by some thread

the concept of a journey, of these last few years of my life

so I want to call it “The Journey”.

Are you in the mood to listen to some of it?

Oh yes of course, but maybe later ok?

Listen, do you always wear jeans, huh?

How about being a bit daring? No, huh?

It wouldn’t hurt, you know? You just need to look around you

while you can still afford to.

There’s a massive difference between

reaching people by giving in to compromises

and reaching people in the way you want to.

Men have more of an opportunity to get there without having to make compromises

women much less.

One of the early interviews

was with Guitar World magazine,

and the guy wrote an intro that said something like

the way I dress makes people focus on my fingers

rather than other areas.

And I thought, “Well, that's what I want.”

And don’t even think of starting a family now.

How old are you?

Fortyish.

Forgive me Rita, sorry, but why are we discussing everything but music?

Because nowadays people talk about everything except music.

Excuse me.

Yes? Go on... No. Excuse me a second.

When you’re ready, send me the album ok?

Goodbye and sorry.

So... Nooo!- No. I already told you this isn’t the solution.

No! No, this is not the solution.

The one thing I noticed in all my research about women in rock,

women in popular music,

the ones that really succeed

are the ones that are completely single-minded,

that don't get distracted.

Women are easily derailed by that process, not surprisingly.

So it's the ones that have that vision, in all genres,

whether it's Nina Simone or Miriam Makeba or Patti Smith,

they all have that in common: they're really single-minded

and they just keep to what they feel is their authentic self.

So, how did it go?

Terrible idea, forget it. Start the engine, let’s go.

Why?

Because she made me feel decrepit, Ca,

nobody cares about music anymore.

Don’t say it! Don’t say it!

But I have to, I think Andrea was right.

She said it.

Can you explain to me what she said to you?

That I should be putting my goods on display more,

displaying my body.

But look! The reasoning isn’t exactly wrong after all.

What are you talking about?!

Listen, it’s one thing if they force you to wear a specific outfit,

or to go on stage in your underwear

another is you deciding how much to emphasise your femininity.

I mean, if you show a bit more of yourself it’s ok because it’s your choice,

it’s you that decides.

I've read something about the costume stuff.

You always had this beautiful look, this image,

a very strong image,

but you refused sometimes to wear different costumes.

I've read somewhere that they wanted to dress you

in a way that you didn't like, and you didn't let them.

Well, I might have said something like the way they dressed Wendy

and Lisa

would not feel comfortable for me.

And when I got the Michael Jackson gig,

they asked me if I could wear high heels

and I go, “I will kill myself!

I will fall on my ass.

Please, flat shoes.”

And they were cool about it, so that wasn't a problem.

I will say what I did refuse: on the HIStory tour

I had this S&M mask. It was just hideous.

And it came from a book of S&M art paintings.

Michael was inspired by one picture, “Make her look like that”,

with a ball gag in the mouth.

I said, “No! No ball gag!

It'll kill my jaw, I'll be dribbling on my guitar,

and I don't want young girls to see that image.”

Women always have too many people around them

and they tend all to be men

who tell them what they need to do for their own good.

So I think when a woman decides to wear lipstick

or sell her music through her sexuality,

it's a bit like a pact with the devil.

And on one level, I think it can

really accelerate your music career quite quickly,

because you get lots of attention.

But there's always blowback:

there are always people who start to take you less seriously,

take your music less seriously.

And I think it's harder, in the end,

for female artists to have career longevity

if that's all they're doing.

But it seems like, you know, even Madonna said it

at the Billboard Women of the Year Awards in 2016.

She was awarded that award,

she comes on stage and she says: “I stand before you as a doormat.”

And you think, “Gosh, if Madonna thinks that,

after years of being in control...”

And she feels that she's been a victim of the industry

and of double standards, and of being shamed,

she said, “treated like a whore”.

And at that point she was almost in tears,

like thinking, “Was it worth it?”

And I think that's a real question

that a lot of women wrestle with when they're performers.

Sexuality, in a certain era,

played a central role in the emancipation of society.

Rock'n'roll was the first vehicle for disseminating

the concept of sexual freedom around the world

which is why it was considered obscene.

Blues was regarded as the devil’s music

not because Robert Johnson learned how to play guitar at the crossroads

but because his music caused “turmoil” in people who,

theoretically, weren’t even supposed to know said turmoil existed.

Madonna was the same at a time in which AIDS was a focus.

There was a giant taboo around it and she

“immolated herself” for that cause.

All this ended in the Noughties

when women’s bodies

became a political issue.

Every day brought another news story about distorted female sexualization

from people in positions of power.

The upshot was that it led to anyone mentioning

women’s bodies being instantly harpooned.

At the same time- or shortly before all this-

pop music inspired by Madonna- for example Paola e Chiara-

who, despite being bestselling female artists both in Italy and abroad

took their song “A Modo Mio” to Sanremo

which didn’t win but turned out to be the most

commercially successful song, post- festival.

Sony released an anthology, a greatest hits album

which- as they used to at the time- had the CD

accompanied by a DVD of the videos for the songs

Among the videos was “Kama Sutra”:

they weren’t just two women but two sisters-

with a series of provocative moves referencing the song’s title.

The MOIGE saw this DVD, got it removed

and from then on no artist could

to show even an elbow in their video

which led to a world of female artists in hoodies

who just sang about feelings as the body was now off-limits.

So Grignani could sing about “trimming

your flowerbed when you get back from school”,

who put in his song two explicitly sexual concepts referencing a minor

with all the risks that might entail, like being arrested.

But there were many who describe-

Rap and Trap have said pretty disturbing stuff about female bodies-

women were only about feelings, zero body, no women were physically exposed

whilst Lady Gaga was showing herself from every possible angle

highlighting a body which didn’t fit within canonical standards of beauty

therefore demolishing that stereotype.

In Italy nothing was shown any more.

Now things have changed a bit

even though Elodie, who’s the one leading her own personal crusade on this point

gets indirectly insulted by Gino Paoli

who says that, in his time, people were successful with songs,

whilst now it’s because they show their asses

Gino Paoli, who also wrote a song called “A Parigi Con Lei Gambe Aperte”

in which he sings about “a white and round neverending

arse even better than Heaven in Versailles”

so I get to quote him as well, but it’s the concept that’s appalling

which is that, if a female artist chooses to display

her body she’s automatically judged for that

and this happens today as well, in 2024.

Ale...

My pasta would’ve gone cold.

This album has all the prerequisites to be one

of the most insane artistic choices I’ve ever undertaken.

It’s completely autobiographical, it’s had a natural birth

and I want to share it all, unfiltered,

with people whose sensitivity is the same as mine

and who’re capable of understanding it

and, ideally, appreciating it.

But, to put it together,

I need my musicians and those who always believed in me

and with whom I’ve always shared my journey

because it’s been a long time- too long, since we’ve breathed the oxygen we need

which is MUSIC!

Here,

make yourselves comfortable.

It’s beautiful. You’re in Heaven here, Gio’.

It’s something I fancied for ages.

After the collapse I finally managed to pick my life back up

and to find my balance.

Ah.

When in the afternoons I have nothing to do I come and sit out on this terrace

I plonk away at my acoustic bass

Ah.

Plonk? You?

Plonk a few notes and relax while I watch the sunset.

What if we actually considered playing?

What do you mean by playing?

What do you mean?

There’s only one possible meaning- making music.

Do you actually mean in theaters, clubs, rehearsals..?

Remember? Or have you forgotten the upheaval?

How much hassle? Trips, concerts?

A bit more Zen, huh?

Forget it.

Gio, I need you.

You’ve always been the closest person to me.

Let it go. And what’s this got to do with anything now?

Because I need to reform the old band.

I want to start playing live again.

Ale, you know how much I love you

but I’ve made up my mind- I don’t feel like resuming our old life.

I believe music, a song, is the absolute

most effective means at your disposal

to be able to accept your presence

or your role in the world.

When you decide to make art, to sing

you don’t do it for yourself, otherwise you’d just do it in your own tiny bedroom

You do it to communicate, to reach people.

Nico’s case was a bit unusual, unique I’d say

and her story is preposterous

in the sense that she built a world full of lies around her

not to deceive others

but it was the only way

to make her world more acceptable.

I need you to accept!

Come on Marco- it’s an amazing thing- just like old times.

Of course Ale, but I have a lot more to do here.

No time for Anna,

who’s constantly complaining that I never spend any time with her

but she accepts it, we need money for the house.

But Marco, what does Anna have to do with this?

Anna’s your number one fan, she followed us to every single gig.

Are you sure it’s not you? You, who’s trying to forget you’re a musician?

Because you know that you are, and always will be, a musician.

Maybe it was written in the stars or maybe it was fate.

However, even in this instance, there’s an element which needs highlighting.

Both Lou Reed and John Cale were insanely jealous of her

because when she was on stage she captured everyone’s attention

and Lou Reed stopped her from singing the songs she wanted to do

and decided he’d be the one to sing it regardless of the original plan

which shows that even here,

when all the ingredients are there, when there’s beauty

it can still annoy,

because stealing the spotlight from a man could turn out to be extremely damaging.

There were already two prima donnas,

there wasn’t any room for a third one.

Apart from Nico there are many other women who

didn’t have access to the same opportunities men had.

There have been very talented female singer-songwriters

who weren’t pushed or promoted

who stayed where they were, waiting for something to happen

who were maybe discovered after they died.

That, I think, is the most terrible curse-

when you realize you were fantastic but nobody noticed you.

Just a moment, there are also those who didn’t make it at all

despite having a crystal-clear talent.

Why should it be different for me?

Laura Nyro, Eva Cassidy

and Judee Sill- all amazing artists

however, they only got the recognition they deserved after they died.

So there are many women who have succeeded,

but many, many more who have either been forgotten

or had very, very short-lived careers.

But that doesn't mean that their contribution is any less,

in terms of cultural impact and the music they made.

I think of Judee Sill, and her singing was really moving.

She came from such a difficult background.

She struggled with addiction for many years.

She was also involved in armed robbery.

It's a complicated story and she's a complicated heroine.

But when she sang,

there was something very inspirational about her singing.

And then we also think of Laura Nyro,

who, along with Carole King,

was one of the big New York singer-songwriters.

She wrote a lot for other people,

but because she was very uncomfortable with being a typical celebrity,

she kept the music industry at a distance.

And then that really affected her record sales

and it affected how people saw her.

And so for a long time after her death, she died fairly young,

she was in obscurity for a long time,

until people plucked her out of obscurity,

as happens a lot with female artists.

You have to dig back in time to find them and remember them.

And also Eva Cassidy

is a great example of the great singer that never was, if you like,

in that she toured

and she was building up her career,

but then died young of cancer

and was almost completely forgotten

until the late '90s,

when it's like her music was discovered all over again.

The music world is a place in which quality doesn’t

necessarily correspond with quantity of albums sold

so sometimes even bands or artists who hardly sold

any records leave their mark in music history.

“The Velvet Underground & Nico” only sold three-thousand copies in its first year

but like someone said,

each of those three-thousand people, after hearing the album,

bought an instrument and formed a band

and we still talk about them today

just as we do the numerous women who,

despite not having been blessed by Fortune,

managed to leave their mark.

They planted some seeds which other women later reaped.

This is the beauty of Art, in a nutshell-

it’s that nothing is ever lost

except for the health and well-being of the ones who left those pebbles.

So I suppose what is great

is that now, with digital media,

with the internet,

we can actually go back in time

and we can find these women,

elevate them and give them the recognition

that maybe they didn't have when they were alive.

Look Ale, unfortunately I won’t be there. I can’t jeopardize my political career.

Ok, so one’s an ascetic,

the other one lives under his wife’s skirt,

another plays at being a big-shot politician

in a tiny town of seven-hundred souls

so do you know what? I’ll do this album myself and it’ll be voice and piano,

including live performances.

Good!

That’s it then.

Fifteen minutes.

Ok.

Do you want to play with me?

Do you want it?

- Yes. - Yes?

- I want it! - Here you go!

Catch! Catch it!

Alessia’s very maternal.

I wasn’t aware of this side to her.

I wasn’t either.

How come she never thought of having her own family?

She never met the right man.

That’s what you say, isn’t it?

I think it's sad that Patti Smith

felt she had to give up her child.

She was very young when she had a baby.

And the sexism of the time...

I mean, it still is difficult if you're a woman and a musician,

particularly if you're a touring musician. What do you do?

Bring your baby on tour?

Who's going to look after the baby while you're on stage?

There are all those questions.

But back in the '60s, back in the '70s,

there was very little sympathy for a woman

with a baby, or a single mother with a baby.

And she would have been expected to devote her life to the baby

and preferably be married.

And that really affected women's choices.

So I can understand why,

although it was really hard for Patti Smith

and really hard for Joni Mitchell,

they gave their children up for adoption,

because they felt that was the only way

that they could pursue their artistry,

the only way they could have a creative life.

Maybe because she prioritized music.

That too.

Pass! Pass the ball! Ball! Ball! Ball!

I’m not a woman so I can’t say whether

it’s possible to be both a mother and an artist

I think that, at least in this case,

it’s an issue which has nothing to do with gender.

I believe some people are so driven,

even in good faith,

by their desire to make it, so taken with following their path

by the will to obtain results- not just numerically

but in terms of their own existential quest-

that they think having a child won’t just be a distraction

but will present a real obstacle to reaching their goals.

Therefore I don’t think it’s a woman vs man argument.

I think it’s a more generalised issue that affects artists.

So I remember Tori Amos, doing an interview with her

literally in her recording studio in Bude, in Cornwall.

And she had just had her daughter.

She waited until she was really established

in her career before she had a child.

And that's a trend I've seen in the music industry:

women don't want to forgo having a child,

but they leave it till later, when they've got that career security.

And maybe they have some means,

they have some economic success.

So, say, with Tori, she had an au pair,

she had someone there with her who could help her with the baby,

as well as her husband.

And she was set up with a recording studio right there,

so she didn't have to travel into London,

she didn't have to worry about being away from her daughter.

So I think it's a bit more of a friendlier world

for women who want to have children.

And I also think, say, on tour,

that environment maybe is not quite as relentlessly boysy.

I've seen quite a few female artists,

like Neneh Cherry for example, take their children on tour.

Throughout the history of Alessia’s musical career,

Ian Anderson’s role has been that of a lucky charm

from the moment when Jethro Tull’s frontman agreed

to collaborate on the version of “Locomotive Breath”

which Alessia recorded in the early 2000s.

After that Alessia participated in some of Jethro Tull’s Italian gigs.

While we were making this film,

Ian Anderson performed with Jethro Tull at the Greek amphitheatre in Taormina

and what better chance for Alessia to get

him to listen to the songs for her new album?

Ok, this is “Intro + Kill Me”, so it’s just a part, but...

I'll tell you what the piano intro reminds me of:

it's when you're tasting,

enjoying the taste of a fine single malt Scotch whisky.

It has a richness and a roundness.

It's a very, very, very charming, very nice piano.

My fingers are slender, they're effeminate,

and I play an effeminate instrument.

And in lots of ways, in terms of personality and sensitivity,

I probably have certain things where I'm aware of my female...

- Side. - ...little female side to my personality.

So with women it's different on a stage.

There's an easier way to feel a different kind of response.

And I don't feel awkward,

I feel okay about it, and hopefully they feel okay about it.

But I do find it easier on a stage to look into the eyes of a female.

And very often, if you're playing together, particularly if it's improvised,

you're trying to read each other.

What's going to happen next? Where are we going with this?

Do we turn left? Do we turn right? Do we go straight on?

Everything is a fraction of a second.

You're reading somebody's eyes and body language.

And I find that much easier to do with a female than I do with a guy.

I mean, I obviously had to do it with male musicians in my band,

but there's a kind of a distance about it.

You try and make it look like you're having fun together,

but I'm detached at the same time.

Whereas with a female,

I feel I can show more of my emotion through my eyes.

I can't smile because I'm playing the flute.

Of course.

- But I can smile with my eyes. - Absolutely.

This really is the last step of this journey

but now I come to think of it, I never enjoyed travelling alone.

We're gradually seeing much more equality.

So many women are writing about their stories,

and that means that women's history is not getting lost.

And that's only going to keep growing.

There are opportunities to emerge without having to relinquish your identity

without compromising yourself

I’d consider these examples in fostering hope for the future.

The way has been opened,

and if you have the passion,

the determination

and the perseverance,

and you have something to say,

you will find a way to do it.

For girls, I would say now is the perfect time.

You should want to make it, even if inside you there's a little voice

that says it's not going to happen.

Ignore the little voice.

Just have fun and keep believing in the possibility

that your best time is ahead of you.

I think you've got to keep believing in the possibility,

not the certainty.

Once I had the opportunity to interview Tom Waits

and I asked him if he could recommend a record.

He told me Marcel Marceau’s album was beautiful

and I replied that Marcel Marceau is a mime artist-

what album did he make?

He’d made a strange one,

it was still the vinyl era with the A-side and the B-side,

the two sides are twenty minutes each,

nineteen minutes of silence and one minute of applause.

So I started laughing, thinking it was a joke

“No, look, I’m not kidding.

It’s very easy to find beauty in the conventional places

like two elderly people walking hand-in-hand

a child, a dog, a sunset...

We need to get used to pursuing beauty

in the places where we’re not sure we’ll find any”.

And this has become the most important lesson for me.

I firmly believe in tomorrow, in what awaits after the next turn

and also in the beauty of not knowing what I’ll find there

but I’m certain there is beauty beyond the next turn.

The main thing is to know if it’s

left or right, in front or behind,

so all we can do is keep our eyes open.

Alessia produced and released her album “The Journey” on her own.