Original subtitles

Yeah, you want extra-small gloves?

I'll squeeze into 'em.

Here you go.

Large.

Scissors.

Yeah, thank you for not giving me

the little-- the little kid ones.

These items were items that were found

inside the well from 2012.

Okay, so why don't we just photograph them?

- Do some with the ruler. - Okay.

And for measurements.

These items are not associated

with any particular, uh, female at this time.

Maybe they belong to other unknown victims.

In the well, when they did all those excavations,

they found dozens of pairs of women's shoes.

They found dozens of rings and other jewelry.

They found Chevy Wheeler's purse

with all her belongings from 1985 were found in there.

Remember, she's buried in another county,

the Shermantine property in, uh, Calaveras County.

But there's all these others that just don't know.

Who do all those shoes belong to?

Who do all those rings belong to?

Are there other victims that are buried in other places that--

but their personal effects were put in that well?

We don't really know.

Many say that we mishandled the 2012 dig.

And so trying to just set that aside

and kind of try to continue on,

to try to solve cases for the families

and try to give some answers to the families,

very important for them to--

and for us to locate those victims.

It was not a relief to watch the Stockton sheriff

make a mess out of that well.

That Stockton sheriff just crushed,

busted the bones all to pieces.

They could try and clean that in the media,

but they are some stupid cops.

It's no wonder they have so many missing people.

Joann Hobson's remains

were found in a Linden well in February.

When Hobson's family received the remains,

they were suspicious after seeing investigators

dig up the burial site with a backhoe.

The way that they pulled her out

with those big steel claws,

and I saw that on TV, I was horrified.

I feel like a crime has now been committed

against me and my family,

and I feel like Joann al-- also has been murdered again.

I got a call from Joan Shelley,

telling me that the sheriff is representing to her

that he'll return Joann's remains,

but he recommended they be cremated.

They called the funeral home,

"What did Mrs. Shelley do with Joann's remains?"

Now, what are they doing calling the funeral home,

asking the funeral director what I had done with my child?

It was none of their business.

Unless they were hiding something.

I suggested to her to say anything

that he wanted her to say just to get the remains back.

Finally I got Joann's remains,

and I get a call from Jeff.

And he goes...

"We have a problem.

Did your daughter have three arms?"

I'm like, "No!"

He goes, "Then we've got a problem."

When Joan gave me permission to take Joann's remains,

I had already contacted Eric

and asked if he would take Joann's remains

and go through them, and he agreed.

The issue really is,

which bones belong to which victims?

Joann Hobson's, her remains were highly fragmented,

in hundreds and hundreds of pieces.

And that's a very extensive process of sorting,

measuring bones, inventorying.

It was like trying to do a huge jigsaw puzzle,

uh, or multiple jigsaw puzzles without having all the pieces.

But I also found a lot of bones

that were not consistent with Joann Hobson.

The first thing I noticed when I opened up the small body bag

that had the bones in it was a fetal pelvic bone.

Joann Hobson was not pregnant.

This is from the unidentified female from the well,

16 to 18 years old and pregnant.

So I already knew there was a problem.

So the anthropology examination that was done

clearly was problematic, 'cause that--

that was the first thing I saw when I opened the bag.

And so it ends up being a lawsuit where

Joann Hobson's mom, Joan Shelley,

and her, um, relatives are suing the County of San Joaquin.

We followed the protocols and the normal process

that we have always followed,

and we have been successful.

I think they treated us like we're trash.

Like we were nothing.

And that was undeserving.

We had a family member who got murdered.

And I brought the lawsuit

to make him see what you have done.

It was showing Sheriff Moore and the county,

you cannot do this to people.

And I hope and pray that everybody after me

that has been done wrong does the same thing.

My child is dead.

Money will never bring back my child.

There was a lot of days I felt so bad, I felt so sick,

I just felt like I wanna lay down and just die.

I even told my older daughter,

"I think you're gonna have to commit me,

'cause I feel like I'm losing my mind."

'Cause your mind can't get off of it.

It's constantly whirling.

"Where's Joann? The window's open.

What has happened to my child?

Where is she? Where could she be?"

I said, "You tell me what's going on."

She goes, "Mama, they're digging."

More bones were found just yesterday...

...believed to be the victims

of two serial killers.

16-year-old Joann Hobson

was found in that well.

Dear Mrs. Shelley,

I am truly sorry for what has happened to your Joann.

I hope you have some peace now.

I know someday you will be with your daughter again.

I'm sorry for your pain.

I'm sorry for even knowing Herzog.

I think we did this backwards. Flip it over, bro.

There you go.

Just grab any box of it, and we'll get started.

Can I have a piece of that thing?

These are the fetal remains, if you wanna just put them down

towards the end so that they're out of the way.

The remains for Jane Doe, the fetus,

and the unidentified remains, whether they're human or not,

were all kept in our, uh, morgue area.

We went to the evidence room to see what we had,

and while we did that,

we found this box randomly of evidence envelopes

that appeared to already be open.

We thought it was strange, so we brought them over here

and we discovered lots more remains still in the envelopes.

We looked on those bags, and a lot of the bags,

some said "human," some with a question mark,

some said "non-human" with a question mark,

and so we decided to take them to Dr. Bartelink in Chico

to examine them again

and give us a better idea of-- of what we have here.

There was about 863 bones,

some large, most of them small.

We're talking about a lot of little tiny bones,

and it's very possible something kind of got lost in the mix.

So we just wanna make sure for ourselves

not to repeat the mistake of the past.

Anything still sealed or anything that still has

a bone fragment in it, put it aside.

One of the issues obviously is,

uh, the way the families were treated by...

uh, the old administration, and, um--

So part of this process is showing them that we do care

and that we are trying to make things--

can't make them right, but make them better.

Um, so it's really important to us

that whatever we give back to them,

uh, we know for sure is their loved one,

and then have a conversation with them

about the unidentified remains

that are just too small right now

for today's technology to be able to test definitely.

And here are these.

Um, I don't remember how they're labeled.

- Let me see. - They're labeled with a number.

- I think 32. - Yeah, they're numbered.

So I'll have to go off the table to see...

- 34. - ...what they go to.

So skull is Jane Doe.

Oh. Got 57. 60.

57 is, uh-- needs to be DNA tested.

- 69. - 69...

is a duplicate, so it's a-- it's a commingle.

- Okay. 79. - Um--

79 is an unknown.

I think that's supposed to be Jane Doe.

The unknowns are supposed to be Jane Doe, yeah.

So put 79 with Jane Doe.

- 36. - Jane Doe.

55.

Jane Doe.

Baby Doe, they did attempt to get DNA

back in 2012 and was unsuccessful.

I, um-- Dr. Bartelink identified,

um, at least one more bone to the-- to the fetus

while he was doing this project.

If we can figure out, you know,

Baby Doe's father or something like that,

then we might have a way of identifying Jane Doe.

A crime victim, they still deserve a name.

Much like Amanda's case,

it would be a huge step forward

to give the Jane Doe that was found in 2012 her identity.

It gives us another lead to determine,

why was she in this well?

Bone pieces found in that well

turned out to be the remains of a third person

that experts haven't been able to identify.

Does she have ties to the Speed Freak Killers?

And if so, what kind of ties?

And it just has a domino effect

of so many questions that we could ask the family.

But until we know who she is, we don't even know what to ask.

We don't have much further on who she is

and her identity at this time.

We've tried to pull the DNA for the genealogy portion,

and right now, um, that hasn't been successful

due to the condition of her remains.

All the sort of wetting and drying,

chemical alteration from the soil

can degrade DNA over time.

So it could be very difficult to get DNA from her remains

because of degradation.

There were appliances and car parts

and all kinds of things down there,

suggesting that the bones were broken

long before the recovery.

But most of the damage

appeared to be recent postmortem damage,

and that would have been

from the use of the large, uh, backhoe.

Really frustrating because you can't get

where you really wanna go.

It would be huge to identify who she is,

and not that they'd be prosecuted for that,

but just to put a-- a closure

and an end the chapter of-- of that well and what, um--

who everybody is that was in that well.

In 2012,

I get a call from a detective in Reno named Allan Fox.

Allan said they were looking for a victim out of Reno

named Terri Fourcher.

I was working robbery homicide detective division

with the Reno Police Department.

Terri Fourcher went missing

around August, September of 1996.

An old cellmate of Loren Herzog,

he was told that Wesley and Herzog had killed this girl

in a motel room in Reno

and kept her in a trunk for a couple days

and then dumped her body in San Joaquin.

Terri was last seen going out

to a casino or-- or a bar,

looking to turn a trick for her drug addiction.

I think they picked their victims

because they were easy to pull in.

They would get in the car with them.

They would leave the bar with them.

When I talked to the informant,

I did call a San Joaquin detective.

She was dismissive and said, "Oh, yeah,

he's-- he's, uh, not credible."

Basically that they weren't listening to him

and they weren't gonna talk to him.

That was the first indication I got

that they weren't gonna be helpful.

But I wasn't going to, uh, let it go.

I wrote the letter to Shermantine

saying, "Hey, I think you could help.

I think you have valuable information."

And he agreed to meet with me.

Shermantine told me him and Herzog,

the last time they were in Reno together was in '96.

And then Leonard Padilla calls and says,

"Hey, I got this map, and it's got Terri's name on it."

There was a property that Wesley and Herzog had rented,

and they had a pit,

and Wesley had marked a spot where Terri Fourcher might be.

So we located it, and sure enough,

you could see an outline of the hole.

Herzog took a woman, Terri from Reno,

and put her in the pit in 1996.

Between the map

and Shermantine saying the same things about the fire pit,

it-- it kinda makes sense.

I gotta come up with a way

to get a search warrant to dig that.

But I just got the feeling that

if they weren't communicating with me,

who else weren't they communicating with?

New developments tonight

in an infamous Bay Area kidnapping.

A bone recovered in the Speed Freak Killers' case

is being tested as a possible match for Michaela Garecht.

A child stranger abduction, you know,

there's nothing you can do to really rationalize that.

Michaela was nine.

They were going up to the supermarket

to buy some candy,

and this guy got out

and quickly grabbed Michaela.

And she was gone.

And that was the start of,

you know, a lot of heartache for a lot of people.

I'd say it's the largest investigation

that's ever taken place in Hayward PD history.

15, 16 years later...

Loren Herzog bore a very striking resemblance

to the Michaela Garecht composite.

I don't know if Herzog killed any children,

but that sketch sure looked a whole lot like him

in 1988.

When the bone thing took place,

that was a game changer,

because I have a-- a guy who looks...

very, very close to the composite sketch of the suspect.

I have a bone that's recovered in the Linden area

that a forensic anthropologist says

that could be a prepubescent female bone.

That's pretty hopeful a case.

I went to San Joaquin County, I said,

"I-- I need every report you have on Loren Herzog.

Who-- who did he hang out with?

What kind of cars did he drive?"

And I got nothing.

How am I going to broach this

in requesting a search warrant

with people who don't like me in their jurisdiction?

And then you just feel like, am I the only one that cares?

You know, how do you treat other people?

As time went on, I became increasingly more aware

that, A, I wasn't getting anything

from San Joaquin County,

and that which I did get didn't help.

It was like the total opposite

of the way things are supposed to be.

More and more I just felt like I couldn't trust them.

And I think they felt like they couldn't trust me

because I was gonna open up more stuff to look at.

Lo and behold, I'm searching on my computer,

and sure enough, the news is out there.

It's a big production. They're digging it up.

The fire pit.

FBI, State Department of Justice,

and San Joaquin County Sheriff investigators

converge on this home, digging in the backyard,

looking for remains of victims

of the so-called Speed Freak Killers.

Herzog and a friend used to hang out at this home.

Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla believes

they are trying to find this woman, Terri Ann Fourcher.

The Reno woman disappeared in 1996.

I've never seen an administrator

try to take control of a homicide investigation.

Why would he be doing this?

Moore used the old standby of, you know,

"protecting the integrity of the investigation."

If you're so concerned about the integrity of the investigation,

why aren't you involved in it

with either refuting or confirming

all of Shermantine's allegations?

That's also your job.

Matter of fact, you might say it's your primary job

before you start digging around in the dirt.

Investigators say they are done digging

in the backyard and didn't find any human remains.

I'm just not happy with the fire pit excavation.

If they would have done it more thoroughly,

it would never be eliminated.

I believe Sheriff Moore was trying to discredit Shermantine,

because the places he told them

they would find bodies, they did,

and where he said the fire pit was, there was.

I think Sheriff Moore was just trying to put this away

and-- pardon the pun, but bury everything.

It took eight months, and I remember

being on the phone with that DNA lab, like, every week.

I was hopeful.

If that bone had turned out to be Michaela,

I mean, everything changes, right?

Anyway, that never took place 'cause it didn't have to,

and the bone turned out to be a bone fragment...

from Kimberly Billy.

I don't know if Herzog and Shermantine

had anything to do with Terri's disappearance,

but what I do know is I wasn't able to eliminate that

based on San Joaquin's actions and stonewalling.

I think Steve Moore actively worked

to keep information, uh,

out of the hands of other law enforcement agencies.

I think he tried very hard to prevent

any investigation and work being done.

And he succeeded.

The girls that were murdered, that are missing,

they don't get a lot of sympathy from everybody.

But these families hurt, you know?

I think justice is just knowing the truth.

And if we can get to the actual truth...

that's the most justice we can ask for.

I started communicating with him in 2005.

We've talked on the phone, we've written,

but I didn't actually physically go see him until 2013.

I swear I'll never forget that moment,

the first day of coming face-to-face with Wes.

You know how visitation is on TV,

where you have glass between you and your own two phones,

and then first day there, finding out that, "Oh, no,

they're just gonna lock you in a cage with him and then leave."

See, when we're having a meeting here, he can't say too much.

There's another guy right there on the other side of the cage.

You know, when you go to a visit in death row,

you know, you sign your life away, basically.

I mean, they're not gonna open the door.

So who knows what's gonna happen?

And the first thing he said to me is,

"I've seen you on TV,

and you were a lot bigger on TV."

And so without even skipping a beat,

I looked at him and I said, "Yeah, and I saw you at trial,

and you're a lot older now, so what are we doing?"

And that was it. That kind of broke the ice.

I've seen him over the years,

I don't know, 50 times or something, I have no idea.

When I go to visit,

it's like me talking to a friend of mine.

You know, and we're just talking.

And then sometimes coming out of there,

I think back to all the reports I've read on this case

and all the things that occurred,

and it's not someone that you would ever want to talk to.

To sit with someone for two hours

and then walk out of that cell

in that two-hour back and forth and not realize...

that he killed ten people is kind of scary.

I guess the overall hope is to continue

until resolution for all families.

You know, there's not a good victim count.

You know, law enforcement has always said 25 to 30.

He laughed at me and he said,

"You better multiply that times three."

I know there are more victims,

even if I can't name them.

If you go straight out Flood Road

until it runs into Waverly...

Loren said there's another well out in that field.

FBI crews have spent almost two weeks

preparing the well for today's excavation.

The FBI says agents are the ones deciding where to dig.

This seems the most probable well

that we possibly can find human remains in.

Convicted killer Wesley Shermantine claims

FBI agents are digging in the wrong spot.

If you rely on a statement of a convicted killer

and only use that information only,

that is a perilous path that you take.

The FBI was coming out in the news

and saying Shermantine is manipulating,

Shermantine is using, Shermantine is lying.

And I kept asking the same question,

"If he's lying, why are you sitting with six victims?"

Despite our intention of recovering remains

of alleged victims,

the effort failed to locate any human remains.

General statements alone are simply not enough

to generate an excavation

in the absence of corroborating information at this time.

FBI, they went out, did two weeks, this huge well,

and that was it, they never said a thing after that.

And the sheriff used that to close the investigation.

Basically, he said there'll never be another dig,

Wes is now a liar.

Wes never said to dig there.

Wouldn't you wanna dig where he said to prove he's a liar?

I 100% believe there's more victims still out there.

You know, Wes has made it a point,

after all these years...

to not lie to me about that.

You know, and I have to believe him

because of the truth he's told before.

So this is your way of taking care of things,

to dig in a spot I never said to.

You planned to come up empty-handed the whole time.

This way, you can claim my information is no good.

If Wes says there's somebody there,

there's probably somebody there,

because he likes this.

It's a way to keep doing what he's been doing.

Yes, I believe Wesley, and I'll tell you why.

Because Wesley has no reason to lie.

He's on death row. He can only die one time.

He's already said where my child was,

Cyndi Vanderheiden, Chevy Wheeler.

He didn't have to do that.

I trust Wes Shermantine, that he's telling the truth,

and when he says there's bodies over there by that tree,

then you go look over there by that tree.

All right, Leonard.

Here is a pretty good map of that area.

Radio tower.

Wells with bodies recovered.

A well that I've seen someone killed and put in.

Orchard.

There's many more unnamed victims in this area.

Should be around here somewhere.

Yeah, there you are. Turn right here.

This says "beware of dog."

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there we go.

So we are--

we are here, Fine and Flood.

And if you continue on Flood Road east,

there is another orchard here,

and this is where Robin Armtrout was found.

And he even writes her name here, "Robin Armtrout.

Wes found in this area where Herzog killed her."

This is where we have the main well dig

where the people were found in 2012.

And then going up just a little bit further east,

but before we get to Waverly,

this is what we call "the pink well."

This is the second well that was dug in 2013.

We're in the neighborhood west of where bodies were found.

And so this is the one that says "orchard."

"These areas is the location Herzog claimed buried someone."

If you continue south on Fine Road here,

you'll run into Copperopolis Road,

and also into Eastern Heights,

which is where Herzog lived.

Shermantine grew up, like, across the street.

Maybe Shermantine, 'cause this is his territory,

kind of knew that a body had been buried out here.

You do a 360, you can't even see the roadway,

so it's-- you're really secluded back here,

so this would be a perfect spot to,

you know, do something

where you don't want anybody else to know what you're doing.

So we bring dogs out, see if a dog gets a hit.

And we know about the potential destruction of bones

and the scattering of bones,

that can make this very difficult.

So we could bring dogs out, and just because a dog hits

in an area doesn't mean that we're gonna find

a complete intact body in that location.

If we find anything at all,

it could just be a bone or a minimal amount of bones.

And then we get to start the process all over again

of, like, "Okay, how do we excavate?"

Because that's probably honestly the only way

we're gonna find anything, is if we excavate.

So if you do that, then...

how big, how wide, how deep do you go?

- It's just where. - Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a big question.

We were looking at it as if our office has always

thought that, you know, he's giving incorrect information

and none of it's true and correct, but you can see in

a lot of his letters where he's very, very angry

about us not listening to him,

or other agencies not listening to him,

and he's just adamant that he's telling the truth.

And so we just kinda thought, "Well, what if he is?"

If he keeps talking about this one location all the time,

is he consistent in what he's saying?

Then let's check it out and see what we can find.

And how do you tell that brokenhearted family no?

"Yeah, I know he said to look there,

but I'm not gonna look there because he's a serial killer,

because of X," right?

So you almost have to at least indulge him to a certain point.

That's the hard part, is matching up--

well, like, even if you, like, go to this and say,

"Okay, we wanna search here."

"Great. Well, who do you think is buried there?" "No idea."

"Dear Mr. Shermantine.

Thank you for writing me back.

We are using the information you have provided over the years,

but I am hoping for more clarification if possible.

As an example, Herzog's boneyard.

This area is vast, and further details

on how to find the location would be appreciated.

I am hoping we can try to work together this way

until visits are allowed.

Sincerely, Sergeant Jimenez."

I never got a response from this letter at all.

Something obviously he loves is to have all the control,

you know, and needs to have the control.

If we were to have something new

to locate more victims in this "boneyard," um,

man, that would be priceless, you know,

and we could recover all of those victims

and, you know, get them back to their families, and, you know?

That would be huge for them, so...

I gotta do what I gotta do.

Have I killed anyone?

We'll just have to see what my book says,

if I ever get it wrote.

I'm still looking for a book deal.

I'd like to tell my story

from the time I met Herzog until now.

Some information came up that Wesley Shermantine

might have some information in his cell on death row.

And that that information might lead to the identification

of more victims or more locations to search.

I had wrote him a couple letters,

he responded one time,

and then on the second letter, he never responded at all.

So there was just kind of the thought of, "Well, you know,

maybe we should just see what's in his cell and go from there."

We didn't even really know what day we were gonna go

to execute this warrant until Linda tells us,

"Oh, we're going on Monday."

And she's like, "And make sure to bring safety goggles,

Like, they very well can gas you,"

meaning, like, they can throw their feces or urine at you.

And Shermantine, actually, we walked past him

both on our way in and on our way out,

because the cell that he was temporarily housed in

was just on our track to walk in.

I don't know if he realized we were there.

He didn't say anything if he did.

No, he didn't say anything,

- but leaving the copy of... - Yeah.

...the search warrant and everything, he knew who we were

when he went back to his cell, I'm sure.

This envelope is labeled "pen pals."

There is a group of people that write to him

that are, like, fans in a way,

that ask him, like, "Will you sign this?"

Or, "Will you take a photo and send it back to me?"

That kind of stuff.

Some of them get very explicit

about asking him specifically about the crimes.

That may or may not be suitable for...

- For all viewers? - Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

Thought you didn't like the police.

That's an interesting fetish to have

while you're in prison.

It's very crunchy.

I love my job.

Yeah, we already figured walking into this

that he wasn't gonna cooperate once we did this.

We had to weigh that pros and cons

versus he already wasn't cooperating with us.

He was very upset, and we're not really finding

anything that's leading us to more victims in more locations

with this search here.

There's just nothing here.

I think that if this case goes away, right,

if it's established that there are no more victims,

he wouldn't be as important.

And for somebody, I can imagine,

on death row with very, you know,

limited things to look forward to,

um, that might be a scary thing.

Or if it's just simply there are other people

and he's just not ready to talk about it yet.

I don't know.

It could just all be some sick game, 'cause why not?

I mean, he is a serial killer.

So the artwork, we've seen online

that there were some landscapes that he had done.

This one is actually, it looks like probably of Herzog,

um, of what he imagines took place.

We need new information

from Mr. Shermantine.

We need something that we can corroborate

to give reason to search

in that particular location.

On the map, he marks two X's, right?

And the big X kinda starts at the bend in the road.

So if we kinda use that,

and maybe where it kinda comes closer to that point,

there's a ton of vegetation all in here that...

I mean, it looks like a forest.

It's just nuts. It's just...

Without having new information to say

"At this location, we definitely have a well

and we definitely want to do a recovery mission there,"

we can't.

We're always open to and would love a conversation with him.

He is also getting older.

We definitely don't wanna lose those details

that he may still remember and is willing to share...

what is still missing that we're looking for.

Crap.

San Quentin's infamous death row

is facing its own death sentence.

Governor Newsom is shutting down San Quentin's

death row in his continued effort

to dismantle California's death penalty.

Moving all condemned inmates

to other state prisons over the next couple of years.

The question now is, what will the state do

with the almost 700 inmates on death row at San Quentin?

And so we're in the process now of pushing

that population out of the physical death row,

and moving a number of people safely and very thoughtfully--

there's a judicious process here--

into general population.

With death row being closed down,

apparently Shermantine is talking.

The opportunity to have more conversations

with Mr. Shermantine is definitely the biggest priority.

I'm hoping that he doesn't lead us down empty rabbit holes.

At this point, I don't think he has anything to lose

other than his own pride,

liking to keep up the game of him having all the power

and knowledge versus others.

Herzog has two more sites

where he has dumped his victims.

Look, Herzog never stopped killing.

We're not done yet.