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>> ALL RIGHT, we're up. David, what's up?

>> Thanks for having me back on.

>> My pleasure.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, you're the one that's closest to

the flame, so tell me what's going on.

>> Oh, I know I'm right. So, uh

uh living the nightmare is what I tell

my friends, so it's definitely

um been a tough several years or so, and

uh you know, last time we were on

uh just testified in front of Congress,

and uh the UAP Disclosure Act of '23

was, you know, possibly getting passed.

It failed to get passed, and then I um

based on, you know, things I know about

the Biden administration, things I heard

from the White House, I decided to kind

of lay low for a year. So, '24 I didn't

do too much, and then

uh Representative Burchett had this

crazy idea to to hire me as a

professional staff member for Congress,

working for him.

Uh turns out I guess I was like the

first guy that ever testified in front

of Congress as a whistleblower, and then

being subsequently hired by Congress.

Um I was the first guy to ever do that,

which is very interesting and very cool,

and I I do thank Burchett for um,

you know, his leadership on that. And

so,

I did that for about a year and a half.

Um

just finished up actually. I was like,

you know what? I'm staying longer than I

thought, you know, I'm going to wait

until Labor Day, see where things are. I

worked pretty hard over uh

summer recess in August, and and decided

uh to, you know, wind down some of my

activities, cuz I accomplished a lot of

my objectives. We can get into that,

obviously.

And then

uh kind of move into, I'll call it my

next phase of operations, which includes

a little break for me.

Um it's been very tiring. I've been kind

of, you know, going full throttle for

the last couple years and whatnot. And

so, we're really at a uh I think a

poignant moment in US history with what

Trump's done, and in the things you've

seen in the media and whatnot. And

there's a lot of other

stuff happening behind the scenes cuz

you know, a lot of my work has been

private behind the scenes, you know,

working for Congress, specifically

representative Burchett.

>> So, let me ask you the environment. So,

are there some people in Congress that

are interested in disclosure of this

stuff and pursue you and want to find

out information and want you to tell

them what what's going on and and then

are there other people that are

resisting this?

>> Yeah, I think there's a big bifurcation

of the non-believers and then kind of

the UAP Caucus. Although, you see more

and more people kind of signing on to

the cause. Like, I did a presser back in

June in front of the Capitol with

members and we even had uh Brigadier

General retired uh Representative Scott

Perry there who is on the House

Intelligence Committee from my home

state of PA.

And it was good to see other members,

you know, start showing that they

support the cause. But, it has been

challenging behind the scenes and I had

many SCIF classified meetings with the

members kind of going over the

topological history of this topic and

and some of the deeper, darker kind of,

you know, criminal stuff I bumped into

and how I worked with

DOJ to kind of highlight some of that

stuff. And that's

>> What kind of criminal stuff?

>> Yeah, so

>> [sighs]

>> uh when I was

um looking into this

I'm have to be very respectful of uh my

participation as cuz it's an ongoing

thing with DOJ.

Um I was, you know, following the money,

bumping into other activities, um very

much like actually sort of related. And

if you saw in the news the David Rush,

very similar name to me, it's kind of uh

freaky, uh but he was arrested with $40

million of gold bars. He was a CIA

officer. He made a fake uh continuity of

government special access program. And

you know, he went under the radar

basically um doing his own thing and

getting gold and Rolexes and stuff and

the FBI raided his house back in May.

True true story. And yeah, the guy has a

>> He has a gold bars?

>> He has he had 40 million dollars of gold

bars.

>> he get the gold bars?

>> From the agency.

>> They have them laying around?

>> Yeah, I can't get into all the details

of what the the government

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. The government has

gold bars?

>> Yeah.

>> And this guy just snatched them?

>> Yeah, he made I don't know all the

details, but he made a fake continuity

of government special access program

that nobody was briefed into. He like,

you know, papered it. And

nobody at the CIA questioned what he was

doing, and he was like, "Well, I need,

you know, 40 million in gold bars

because of the special continuity of

government activity."

>> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a

minute. So, that's how they fund some

things?

In gold bars?

>> Yes. It's almost like in Afghanistan

when I was over there, I'd have guys

with briefcases full of $100,000 in cash

cuz you have to pay for things, right?

>> Right.

>> So, imagine

>> of makes more sense to me than lugging

around gold.

>> Yeah.

>> What does like 40 million in gold bars

look like?

>> Uh I saw the seizure photos. It's a lot.

I mean, it's pretty big.

>> Can I see what that looks like?

>> It's approximately 303

gold

a piece.

>> Yo. That's a lot of weight.

>> for a picture. There's only like AI

photos [snorts] of it.

At least that [clears throat] I could

find.

>> So, a kilogram is 1.2.2 lb?

>> Yeah, 2.28 or

>> That's crazy.

He's got 600 lb of gold?

>> Yeah.

>> Where the do you put it? So, he

just had it in his house?

>> He did have it in his house. He had it

just laying around. A bunch of Rolexes

and all that and

>> Oh, so he was just going crazy?

>> Yeah.

Well, who knows what he was really going

to use the gold for, but that that's an

open-ended thing and he he was arrested.

>> that he was using it for some disclosure

type deal or did it have anything to do

with UAPs?

>> Uh not that I'm aware of, but that same

ecosystem I bumped into. So, his

fabricated program was a continuity of

government program. So, that's like, you

know, if something bad happens, people

are going to a hideout site, you know,

sanitized location.

And so, what I bumped into

unfortunately was like the deep

underbelly of the federal government. We

can get into it. It's

It's a lot of stuff I've never talked

about because it's just very terrifying

and I you know, I've been through a lot

of a lot of crazy And

I ended up bumping into a criminal

enterprise run out of a particular

agency.

And

it was basically

getting

money through certain criminal

endeavors, the most unspeakable type of

criminal endeavors

under the cover of certain national

security programs. So, that's about as

>> When you say certain unspeakable

>> Yeah.

>> You mean like What do you mean like

trafficking?

>> Yeah.

>> Like child trafficking?

So, the government was involved in child

trafficking for money.

>> Officers of the government, that's true.

Yeah. It's It's up. I I briefed

members in a classified setting all the

details. And I I'm highlighting that

because

this is how serious this issue is is

there's an ecosystem. And there's a lot

of good people around these programs.

In terms of the the UAP side of it.

Yeah. And I know a lot of them. They're

friends of mine. They're patriotic

people doing their duty. But there is

like a small little caste system of

characters

that are part of this larger ecosystem

of

no holds barred. We're going to do what

we want. And you know, we're going to do

whatever kind of criminal activity to

get a washed money

for our cutouts. Like so, a good example

of course

Contra, right? Which is very famous '86.

And

the CIA was engaged in those kind of

activities. This has all been exposed

all over North and all that to fund the

Contras, weapons purchases, procurement,

etc. And a lot of that, you know, seemed

to possibly be drug trafficking. The

government never confirmed that. But you

look at Barry Seal and and his um

uh

statements in the '80s and '90s. And and

it's likely that that

probably [clears throat] occurred, you

know.

>> Yeah, it was all through Freeway Ricky

Ross.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> Yeah, Ricky's been on the podcast

multiple times.

>> That's right. That's right.

>> Yeah, he was on What was it? Like 2

years ago? Year and a half ago?

Last time he was on.

It's funny cuz he's out now,

became an attorney while I was in jail,

found out learned to read first, okay?

Couldn't read. Became an attorney in

jail, found out that they tried him, you

know, the triple jeopardy three strikes

thing.

>> Yeah.

>> They tried him incorrectly. They used

that incorrectly because it's supposed

to be three different times you were

arrested instead of like three crimes

that were attached to one arrest. So, he

gets out of jail. Now, he sells legal

weed.

>> [laughter]

>> All right. All right. Lovely guy.

>> Yeah, but he he's a great guy. But he

had no idea that he was selling cocaine

to fund the Contras versus the

Sandinistas.

>> Interesting.

>> He had no idea. He thought that he was

just a

a slick character that just knew what he

was doing and was you know, he didn't

realize that the CIA was literally

allowing him to do it. Then we've also

had Michael Ruppert on the podcast. Do

you know who he is?

>> No.

>> Michael Ruppert was the LA narcotics

officer that on I believe it was on

C-SPAN. He went on C-SPAN during a

hearing and he exposed the entire or

organization selling drugs in South

Central Los Angeles because he was

involved in it. He was involved in like

busting people that were doing it and

then they told him he has to leave it

alone because it was the CIA.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, and so when I bumped into that

stuff, you know, I immediately worked at

the Department of Justice.

>> That's one level, but like child

trafficking is another level deeper in

the Department of Justice.

>> It's It's really up and and

there's a lot of details that are

I have a lot more questions than answers

and and I you know, I worked with the

DOJ and you know, from what I understand

I got a gold star in a brief to Kash

Patel about it last year. I wasn't in

the briefing, but I you know, I I was

told I got kudos, but

it was very disturbing and so like

obviously a lot of these programs are

legal in the sense that there's in terms

of UAP stuff, there's, you know,

classified executive orders back in the

day that covers them and and they're

upstanding citizens and we could we

could litigate like, you know,

Congress wasn't necessarily brought into

the fold enough from an oversight

perspective, etc., but, you know, the

core of the program, you know, does have

a legal beginning, but

when you don't have oversight,

unfortunately, certain small pockets of

people start doing that they

shouldn't have. And I and

and unfortunately,

I got deeply ensnared in that. There was

a very small group of people

that

you know, pushed me over the edge and I

had to do what I got to do to to

you know, protect myself. And

I never wanted to be a whistleblower. I

was a deeply entrenched, you know,

15-year intel officer, military officer

in the Air Force. You know, I was

working some of the country's most

sensitive issues, you know, sort of

going to the White House to brief the

National Security Council in my mid-20s

on space issues back during the Obama

administration and

and

in 2019, when I joined the UAP Task

Force, and I was tasked to investigate

this, I was like, "Sure, I'll look into

it, you know, the special access program

or black program community has a lot of

dysfunction and and maybe some stuff

wasn't reported, you know, you know,

correctly." And and I didn't know really

what I was going to find, but if there

was a US program, you know, I'd figure

it out, I'd probably get cleared to it

and we'd be fine. We'd have like a mafia

meeting and and you know, that and I

know why it was protected the way it is

and whatnot, but unfortunately,

about

a year and a half, about October 2020,

is when kind of my life changed and

particular individuals instead of

coming to me, who knew me, by the way,

personally, and I know I know them

personally. Now, Dave, you're bumping

into something.

You know, I'm going to defensively brief

you. This is what it is or hey, I'm

going to slide an NDA, sign this, and

I'll read you in. And And my colleagues

and I joked about that. Like, we're

bumping into Eventually,

somebody's going to knock on my door of

my office and be like, "Hey, I need to

talk to you." And unfortunately, that

never happens.

Um

It's really tragic cuz that would have

been an easier way, but um I immediately

got administratively neut

in October 2020. And basically, they

went after everybody around me.

Uh my boss at the National

Reconnaissance Office as, you know,

Major Grush, the Air Force officer in

the reserves, got walked out of NRO

headquarters in Chantilly, Virginia

under

fabricated

uh personal conduct things. And And they

went after, you know, my chief of staff

who worked for me at NGA when I was a 15

and and co-workers, people they thought

were my enablers, right? And

um

And I thought, "Okay, I could fight

this." If they're bringing up like my

mental health stuff, which we've talked

about before, Afghanistan PTSD, I'm

like,

"I reported it. I was cleared of, you

know, no problems. Kept my top secret

clearance." And I still have my top

secret clearance.

But it got very

very

um

scary in early 2022. And

I've avoided talking about this for a

long time. And I've mentioned in my

hearing in 2023, you know, I was you

know, I'm I'm here in fear for my life,

etc. Well, you know, I'm not talking

about the criminal stuff I found, stuff

that's happened in my personal life and

stuff. And so, back in early 2022,

um everything's fine.

Uh started uh noticing some suspicious

activity um

near where I live.

And I didn't think much of it. Thought

it was kind of strange. And I don't want

to quite go into all the details, but

basically

um

later one particular day

uh

I was sent a message that they can touch

me and my wife.

And they they're they know where we are

and they

>> And what [snorts] do you think this is

particular Was this because of the child

trafficking stuff? Was this because of

some other illegal activity that with no

oversight?

>> You know, in

private environments, I was asked what

what red line, what tripwire did I

cross? To this day, I don't know

specifically.

I suspect uh based on them it turns out

they were monitoring my classified

computer at work. Uh my my

investigation notes that I would keep

encrypted on there. I think they were

very worried that I figured out a lot of

things. And I I still don't know for

sure though. Like in it and there's a

lot of other things too. I guess I'm

kind of jumping around because um in

early 2021, you know, certain people

that were helping me and I was talking

to started to experience Havana syndrome

symptoms. You know, anomalous health

incidents. And I know a lot about that.

That's another kind of ecosystem I was

an expert in in the government.

And of course, my first thing is like,

huh? Uh did you piss off the Russians or

Chinese or some other kind of foreign

intelligence service or cuz you don't

think domestic. And I'm like, what did

you do in your career? Were you on

covert action programs? Did you like,

you know, bomb some

you know, adversary's building and

they're pissed off at you and they hold

a grudge and so I noticed that I wasn't

going to equate that to the topic and

uh but I I was very nervous about that

cuz people I know uh were starting to

experience those symptoms. Specifically

uh microwave directed energy most

likely. Just based on um

certain tradecraft they were doing to

detect it, which I won't get into the

details of that, and then this their

their symptomology, so to speak.

And so that was frightening. And in the

in the in that 2021 time frame, I was

sitting at home. I was getting them, you

know, investigated by three agencies.

And

um

I really didn't know what was going on.

A lot of my colleagues were going to

continuing on that investigation on on

on my behalf. And eventually, in late

2021, NGA hired me as a 15 off the

street. Kind of came back into

government full-time. I was hoping um

that agency would protect me against uh

you know, the CIA and the NRO and and

certain elements of the DOD that were

going after me because of these couple

antagonists that were trying to, you

know, basically um push me over the edge

administratively. But

what what I crossed the Rubicon early

2022 when I was sent a message, and it

was this the same day I was sent a

message, other people got that message,

too. So it was coordinated

geographically.

And of course, you know, I reported that

to federal law enforcement,

counterintelligence element. And at the

time, I'm like, well, you know, there

was a one adversarial intelligence

agency that had an interest in me

several years ago. And I had a little

incident that was actually kind of

funny.

Um so I wasn't sure

if it was like the US government or even

if it was related um to the my

investigation.

And then several several uh weeks later

and I would I get chills talking about

this cuz it's it's kind of upsetting. Um

I was

uh in DC

um for a conference on UAP actually uh

for my for my agency NGA at the time.

And I got summoned to an off-books

uh Senate Intel Committee

uh we'll call it meeting in their, you

know, their SCIF, right? Their their

their vault where you can talk

classified information, and certain

individuals were there known to me. Um

great credentials, people I've known for

a while in my line of work. And so was,

you know, a dozen dozen and a half uh

senior staff for Marco Rubio, Mark

Warner, you know, etc., right?

And

in that meeting,

uh we you know, we talked about the

legacy program, the history, many hours.

And I'm a fly on the wall. Like this is

really for Senate staff. I'm just kind

of sitting in the back.

And

you know, they turned to staff, and they

you know, they pointed at me, and

they're like, um

oh, by the way, you know, the these

couple individuals, and they and they

named the individuals. I'm like, I know

who they are. Um

uh

they

uh wanted to kill you.

And um I know Lou Elizondo talked about

it in the interview.

>> why?

>> I do not know that for sure. I think

Well,

so

um

hm

Be careful what I say. Uh

there are certain presidential findings

that allow certain things to protect

critical things in the government. And

my

assessment is I was getting so close to

exposing it cuz I was sort of preparing

my Inspector General's

uh

report to the IG that um I must have

crossed some sort of Rubicon. I still

would like to know, and I hope these

people are, you know, uh brought to

justice, and that's, you know, my wish

and dream, and hopefully Department of

Justice does

what's needed, but

>> There's an investigation ongoing right

now?

>> Yes, on that. And that's all I'll say

defensively not to interfere with that.

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>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> How much of this do you think has to do

with actual UAP disclosure and how much

of it has to do with a lack of oversight

that allowed people to do illegal

activities?

>> I think some problem children

decided to abuse some standing

options to protect, you know,

critical infrastructure in the United

States, which, you know, for example,

that would be like a Air Force flight

line, a ICBM silo, um other activities,

and they decided um I was some sort of

threat. Wait, and it's

it's so disgusting because I, you know,

like I said, I was a field grade officer

in Air Force, I was a, you know, GS-15

in the CIA, colonel equivalent civilian,

and I'm sitting there in Senate chambers

and I'm hearing this. And I won't get

into all the details, I know a lot. I

heard, like, you know, all the details

on that and and I don't want to, like,

um burn my sources. And and I just

remember how upset the Senate staff was.

And to to point where, you know, a

particular staffer

um who was very senior went to his

office and got some whiskey. And, you

know, all of them started drinking in

the SCIF cuz it's like everybody was

afraid like are they serious? They're

like they literally were thinking about

killing Dave? And like and and

and I found out that there was a kibosh

to that. That's a longer story for

someday if I could ever, you know,

discuss the whole the whole history. And

>> So, it was considered, but then it was

kiboshed.

>> Yes, thank god. And I know how it was

stopped, and I I owe some people a debt

of gratitude literally. And

um And this was just a few weeks after

you know, I was sent the message. And

and even after the meeting um

we were finding stuff, and other people

were finding stuff

um to let

people know that they're being tracked.

And I know this sounds like so

crazy and all that, but

>> Well, so does someone having $40 million

in gold in their house and a bunch of

Rolexes.

>> Yeah. Never did I think, you know, I'm a

very patriotic guy. I love serving

America. You know, it hurts me every day

not having the uniform anymore. And

knowing that was

the level that they thought about going

to because of this

interesting interpretation of certain

standing options. And I And

eventually in this disclosure process, a

lot of that will come out. I just have

to be careful what I say now until, you

know, the the president figures out how

to, you know, release some of this

history unfortunately, so.

>> Understood.

>> Yeah.

>> So, one of the things that we talked

about before, so you were scheduled for

another podcast a while back, but

flights got canceled. And we moved it

today. But you were saying that it's

actually fortuitous that it was

rescheduled.

>> Yeah, a lot of things are happening. I

see the administration getting really,

really serious on this. And I think

people don't appreciate

the courage that Trump is is is showing

right now

uh ordering the government to release

everything we know about this topic.

It'll be

>> Courage, how so? Like you think he's in

danger from releasing this information?

>> but it's it's

um the ontological shock and the history

coming out and some sort of the outrage.

I mean, I think it'll be uniting sort of

like in post-9/11 America after the

towers fell, right? You have the the

fear of dirty bombs and other terrorist

attacks, but you also have this like a

uniting uh panacea that kind of brings

people together.

>> is equivalent to what's happening right

now?

>> It will be, and I think that's

>> to happen?

>> So,

I believe uh before Trump

Trump's term ends, that it's

all going to come out.

>> What does that mean?

>> Everything I've testified about, you

know, the fact that, you know, we've

been studying this for a while, we've

recovered material, aka intact,

semi-intact craft. We've, you know,

recovered this anomalous intelligence

piloting the crafts, and you know, we

are

reverse engineering that. And obviously,

there's other parts to that. It's a very

complicated ecosystem. A lot of people

who are just release it all, show us

Indiana Jones warehouse tour, don't

appreciate the care that we're going to

have to

um proceed with because this is not a

static ecosystem. This isn't just like

archaeology, where you're digging up

stuff. There is you are dealing with,

you know, third parties, both human, you

know, adversarial countries, etc. They

have their own program. And then you

have, you know, our this anomalous

intelligence, our visitors, NHI,

whatever you want to call them,

ultraterrestrial, depending on which

taxonomy in the tree that you want to

um

ascribe some of this origin to. And

of course, you know, the the the

national security-related technology

that has been derived. We've derived

great stuff to defend America. I've had

exposure on that and you know, I'm very

reverent

>> it through back engineering.

>> 100%?

>> Yes. Well, some of it it it was

inspiration. It wasn't a one-to-one like

we we we unlocked the iPhone. It was

like, "Huh, that's an interesting

material. Look at that

frequency selective surface property.

You know what? We could use that for an

aerospace application or whatever." And

so a lot of it was garnered via

inspiration not one-to-one.

In some cases, I suppose we did, but

like that's been most of it, yeah.

>> So, what's the hold-up in terms of

disclosure?

>> I

necessarily can't read the president's

mind. There's certainly a

multilateral kind of diplomatic issue. I

mean, so we're in this this issue now

where once we cross the Rubicon, then we

affect allies and adversaries. You know,

our adversaries have programs. Are they

going to tell their citizenry, "You have

possible theological distress, Vatican,

etc." And I'm you know, I'm a Catholic

and I I certainly appreciate the

Vatican's long study on the subject and

they've just stayed quiet on what they

know. And so it's there's a lot of like

collateral effects. If you're not

careful with certain stuff, you you can

you know, trigger a response and there

is great fear that

I don't necessarily believe in this, but

like there has been assessments in the

past that you know, revealing certain

things may you know, trigger a response

from a third party.

>> Trigger response from them from these

>> Possibly. Yes. And that is a

that has been written up.

So, the government think tanks wrote

that up in reports to the previous

president.

>> So, the the the the theory is that we

disclose, people are now aware of it all

over the globe and they decide to show

themselves?

>> Yeah, I mean, I think there's a real

fear of like a Ghostbusters moment, I'll

say. And

you know, and

it's one of those things where

I'm trying to walk the line and be

as diplomatic as possible and also

trying to prepare the populace at the

same time because clearly the government

hasn't right now and I mean Trump wants

it out for sure. His team needs to be

astute enough to know what to ask for,

you know,

massage the deep state and and get that

information cuz we just saw Tim Burchett

on Benny Johnson's podcast talk about

Stephen Miller called him and was like,

"Hey, I'm getting blocked." Like

physically blocked from access to a lot

of this stuff and you know, that's very

concerning. I I would say Stephen Miller

is an alpha dog, he's a pitbull and as a

fellow alpha, I do appreciate his

>> That's a silly thing to say. You know

that, right?

>> What?

>> A fellow alpha.

>> Fellow alpha?

>> [laughter]

>> Opened yourself up to like tremendous

amounts of ridicule.

>> Yeah, I know. I know. I mean I mean

nobody's perfect and I'm I know

everybody has their faults, but I do

appreciate the fervency he is attacking

the issue behind the scenes and I just I

think he needs guided the right way and

informed and and kind of how

how to cut this deal. You know, like

>> I met him very briefly at the UFC event

at the White House and he told me that

it's going to come out.

>> I'm like, okay.

>> That's good.

>> Well, there you go.

>> It was really quick.

>> Yeah.

>> He's like he's like, "I'm just I know

you're interested in this." This is

literally all we talked about. The UFO

thing is going to come out.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm like, okay, when? When's that coming

out? Let's go.

>> Exactly. And and and and Trump

understands the subject pretty good and

you know, he's in the know and

he understands some of the implications.

So I like I said, he has a lot of

courage because this is likely going to

change society in a big way. I can't

neces- I'm not like a social

anthropologist or psychiatrist, like I

can't necessarily predict in what

specific ways it might reduce, you know,

fetal nation-state peer competition and

other things.

Uh but it is going to change and I and I

think when people look back at this

interview, it's going to be very

haunting cuz I think

in short order, you know, before Trump

leaves office, we're going to be in a

new paradigm. And I'm normally a very

pessimistic, cynical person. A lot of my

friends know that.

But I I have great confidence that the

president is doing the right thing and I

I I feel

um

there's eventually going to there the

people that are in charge of this are

going to have to comply with the the

president's order and uh but there's a

right way of of doing this, I think. And

I like I said, I'm not some sycophant

for the deep state. I'm a whistleblower,

obviously. And you know, I have um

philosophical differences about how this

was capped and how they could possibly

reveal stuff, but I I am

surprisingly confident, which is which

is kind of weird for me to say cuz I

just see the tea leaves. I know Miller

serious. Um there's other people in

government serious. I mean, even see

Aaron Lucas, the PDDNI, the Deputy

Director of National Intelligence, you

know, sign these big NDA waivers that

includes like any kind of waiver of not

even telling the president, "Sorry, you

have to tell us" kind of thing. And

and so you're seeing kind of the the

chessboard being set. I know everybody's

not happy with the tranches coming out

with the low-hanging fruit videos and

and recordings and stuff. And

Representative Burlison and I before I

left his office recently

got um a 1952 recording that was still

classified from Blue Book uh talking

about the seriousness of this issue and

all the crazy that they're seeing

near nuclear sites and test ranges,

which is interesting cuz

in in uh that video that's been

declassified, it mentions the very sites

that in modern day have that same

anomalous activity to include stuff in

the Southwest. So, can't say where. It's

in the ecosystem in the open source, but

the the executive branch hasn't it what

specific test and training range they're

seeing crazy orbs that they can't

explain. This across helicopters and and

all that, so.

>> Um so, is Trump experiencing resistance

in your opinion?

>> Yes, um

and I don't know all the details, but

clearly clearly Miller has. And

a lot of it is, I think, and I can't

read the mind of the deep state, but as

a former deep stater,

I would say that there's always been

this kind of disdain for political

appointees and they don't and members of

Congress, like they don't they don't

have the reverence on this issue,

they're going to it up, they're

going to just, you know, say something

that they shouldn't have about a

classified program and that's why some

classified programs are kept from

Congress. It's called waved programs. Um

and

I

the only presidents that were really

really involved were the ones like H.W.

Bush, right? He was CIA director, he was

fully briefed on this issue. A lot of

that lore is true about H.W. Bush,

Cheney, like I've talked about, fully in

this. He was the mob boss for many

years. He was kind of the head

of this activity and

so I think there's some

testing of the waters right now. It's

kind of like cat's paw dynamic, like,

you know, we'll give you a little bit of

this, little bit of that and they're

they're seeing how the administration is

going to potentially roll this out. And

and obviously if

the White House wants my opinion, I'm

available, but

I do trust the president's team.

Hopefully we'll be able to handle this

and cuz

if Trump doesn't enforce his order and

see this through, I don't think any

other president is going to be able to.

I mean I mean regardless of if Democrat,

left, right, whatever, like if he

follows through on this, he's going to

be the goat. He's going to be a legend

and you know, all the other things

people have problems with in his

presidency, Iran, whatever, I think this

will

wipe those out and this is like really

important for his legacy to initiate the

process before the 28 election and then

there's like a hot handoff to the next

um administration and you know, if

Trump's a political animal, he could

easily line up a Republican team on the

28 ticket to basically

you know, be his continuity on this too.

I think that'd be very smart and So,

this

>> is going to take a long time to release.

Is that how you're

projecting this?

>> That was always the plan back in the

day. I

>> Why?

>> Uh just because it's like an

acclimatization and climatization

process. It's like you know, okay, we're

going to focus on this topic.

Everybody's this is going to get

normalized. The temperature is going to

cool and then we're going to bring in

this shocking thing etc.

>> there's a schedule like in terms of like

psychological impact on the populace?

>> in the past in terms of certain um

government think tanks wrote classified

assessments for uh previous presidents

on this.

I don't know what the current plan is.

I'm just uh I'm currently literally a

private citizen right now.

>> Right.

>> But if they're going to do what they did

in the past, it is

and the slow rollout has its plusses and

minuses. Like I would say due to human

factors, risks of adversarial countries

getting ahead of us, other

whistleblowers, whatever, you probably

have to roll this out in at least like

12 months and whatnot, but we're in a

precarious time if the administration

doesn't start because

uh China and Russia could take advantage

of this moment now, our weakness. You

know, China has their famous uh Belt and

Road Initiative. Uh China has admitted

publicly that they have a UAP task

force. Obviously, they have more than

that behind the scenes and they actually

announced that when the DOD UAP task

force was announced. You can find a news

article from June 2020 in the South

China Morning Post where they talk about

they're analyzing these encounters,

they're using AI etc. So,

>> Do you feel that China has or do you

know if China has these crashed vehicles

as well?

>> There's parallel programs.

>> There's parallel programs.

>> Now, one of the things that Diana

Pasulka said when and and Gary Nolan

refers to in the same way as well, they

they refer to them as donations.

Yeah, that's what's really interesting

is I am aware of certain historical

retrievals where they were like

perfectly landed.

And it's wasn't like a crash. And what

it what's going on there? I'm sure

we've done a deep assessment. I had

never had access to that kind of

information. I'm sure that we understand

why that happened at some level, but

that is true that that's actually

happened.

>> So, the theory is that they want us to

find these things so that we can examine

the technology and perhaps work from it,

back engineer it, or like you were

saying before, gain inspiration to try

new

>> Yeah, I mean, part of it's like throwing

the gorilla banana, see if it can peel

it, but also

the the more skeptical intel officer in

me is like, "Well, is this a Trojan

horse?

Do you want us to

figure things out and then get a then

get addicted to certain type of

technology? And then that creates a

control loop

where they start handling us. Whether we

need raw resources to maintain a certain

technology

>> They as in this intelligence, whatever

this is, this non-human intelligence.

Right. So, if if it is a

if it is a donation, do you feel like

this donation is evenly distributed

amongst world powers?

>> You know, I do not know the the the

statistical distribution. That's very

interesting. I I never understood the

total number of retrievals in

other countries participated.

>> Well, there's supposed to be quite a few

in the United States.

>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's for sure. I

don't know the answer to that actually.

I'm sure

there's a statistical analysis that'll

come out in this process, you know.

>> Do you

>> there's any shared information between

these governments? Do you think they

communicate?

>> There is a a gentleman's agreement. Uh

the the top layer of it I can talk about

and I've talked about it previously, so

it's not um anything super new. If you

look at the accident measures agreement

of 1971, which which is the short title

of this god awfully long title treaty

that was signed in September 1971,

you'll see article three of the treaty

talks about UAP. And hey, if you see any

unidentified objects around your nuclear

or critical critical coms facilities,

please call us, bro. And that was

between the USSR

and America. And then

uh in 2013, the classified annex of that

treaty got declassified. You can find it

online at George Washington University

National Security

Archives, but it gives the nuke flash,

like the red line, like code to say it

was like atom 222, atom 333. And that's

all declassified. And then you would

send that to the the Kremlin, like,

"Hey,

uh we see weird around uh

Plesetsk.

Uh it's not us. It's not a false flag."

And vice versa. And so there was a red

line coms for UAP activity between

uh Russia and the US. And of course,

Russia and the US during the Cold War

had a mutual notification treaty for uh

space launch vehicle and ICBM launches,

etc. Weirdly enough, we've never had

that with China.

Even to this day, we don't have a mutual

This is crazy. We don't even have a

mutual notification if they're going to

do like a

uh some submarine launched ballistic

missile test at a, you know, off their

coast, they're not obligated by treaty

to tell us.

So, and sometimes they don't with

certain national security activities.

And and so uh Northern Command, NORAD,

missile warning center, other other

places, uh NSA Def Smack in Laurel,

Maryland have to be on their A game to

like make sure it was like a test. Cuz

the Chinese aren't obligated to tell us,

and I

um

a crazy story

in that regard, the Indians did

something like that to us. I was on duty

in the NRO operations center, and by the

way, I got this cleared through

security, so, you know, NRO,

don't shank me. Um I basically there was

an unexpected

Indian

uh missile test that hit one of their

satellites in 2019. It was like March of

2019.

>> of our satellites?

>> not our, uh one of their uh one of their

weather sat- yeah, their own defunct

weather satellite. And

>> or an accident?

>> On purpose. And

>> They shot down one of their own

satellites.

>> they didn't tell us. I remember in my

office I had like all these different

phones. I'm like calling the embassy,

all this. I'm like,

what the you know? And cuz we were

worried at the NRO about the debris, cuz

we fly space you know, spy satellites.

That's the mission of the National

Reconnaissance Office. And I was the

backup director of intelligence as a

reservist at the operations center where

I was, you know, also handling the PDB

for the director, and

I you know, led the director's briefing

team. And you know, I'm like going to

the orbital analysts on the watch floor

with all the crazy screens, like,

"Calculate the the the debris field, you

know, let me know if we have to maneuver

something." And blah blah blah, and I'm

like running up to the director's office

in my uniform, you know, out of breath.

I'm like, "Holy you know?" Um and

it was kind of a big deal, and that's

publicly, you know, you can Google that

now, and um

I remember when that went down, it was

pretty crazy, so.

>> Now, that sounds completely insane.

>> Yeah.

>> So,

are there other countries besides China,

Russia, and us that supposedly have

access to these vehicles?

>> Yeah.

>> Which other countries? Can you say?

>> I don't want to get into, cuz that gets

into some sensitive stuff.

>> Right. Um supposedly, this is like one

of the best legends, that there's a a

craft that's so large they couldn't move

it, so they had to make a building

around it, and it's supposedly in Korea.

Allegedly.

>> know.

>> Oh, yeah, you do know. How dare

[laughter] you?

But have you heard you've heard that

rumor, I'm sure, online.

>> I've heard that rumor online, yeah.

>> Yeah, but you don't know anything about

that?

>> Yeah.

We'll let the federal government do

that.

>> any personal experience with any of this

stuff?

>> You know, it's funny you ask that. I

as far as I can remember, I have no

experience with the phenomenon. Like a

lot of a lot of people in this, I guess,

ufology, whatever you want to call it,

they have that personal experience.

Like, "Oh, yeah, when I was a kid, I saw

an orb or whatever."

>> Uh-huh.

>> I have zero. I've seen a couple

interesting things in the sky that, you

know, could have been satellite passes.

I've been an amateur astronomer, besides

having physics degree,

I've been an amateur astronomer since I

was like in middle school, like 12, 13

years old, and and I still have never

seen anything in my personal life uh in

a sis- stupendous nature. I've never had

any kind of spooky woo stuff happen.

>> Never been visited?

>> No, and and and that's why, like, I was

open to this. You know, I'm a child of

the '80s Well, I grew up in I was born

in the '80s, you know, most of my

childhood was in the '90s, and

you know, I watched X-Files and Star

Trek Next Gen, and and of course,

I'm like,

you know, I'm a precocious teen reading

like A Brief History of Time, and you

know, Isaac Asimov, and I'm learning

about the Drake equation. I'm like,

there's probably life, but who knows?

And I'm I'm open to it, and then,

you know, when I got in into the

intelligence community, that's like the

first thing I looked up like on the web.

I'm like, on the computer. I'm like, I

go on to a certain database. I'm like,

type in an Area 51, you know, UFOs.

Like, everybody's done that who's who's

gone through Intel school, whether they

admit it or not. And of course, I didn't

see anything or anything. Um the only

thing I bumped into early in my career

in like 2009,

I remember reading the ASAP, uh the

Defense Intelligence Reference

Documents, the DIRDs. And at the time, I

had no idea what they were doing. It

turns out it was obviously UAP related,

but I was reading, "Why Why the DIA

looking into magneto hydrodynamic

propulsion and

cloaking and all the all this other

stuff? And of course I find out later

what it was. But I had absolutely no

personal experience and even

professionally

for most of my career. Now I found out

behind the scenes later like, "Oh, you

remember that top secret program you

were working on Dave? You were actually

looking for

UAP and you didn't know it." I'm like,

"What?" And and of course you know, I

find out and I learn about you know, how

they hid all this infrastructure and

they used a lot of conventional national

security intelligence collection

architecture to basically facilitate

this crash retrieval program which makes

sense cuz they're not going to reinvent

the wheel and you know

totally have a separate infrastructure

to use to like figure out if stuff

crashed, activity, etc.

>> Right.

>> And

um

you know, early I would say

about 10 years into my career, I

remember some imagery analysts saying,

"Hey Dave, you know, like they told us

to airbrush some stuff out of photos and

stuff and it was round." And I'm like,

"Okay, dude. Well, maybe that's

something you're not cleared to or

whatever." And I do remember that.

And I had some suspicious recruitment

earlier in my career too. I was on some

really sensitive stuff that I ended up

finding out it was

um directly adjacent to the program and

I went through this whole like smoking

man recruitment thing for a year and you

know, I was told I was going to get

these kind of bizarre accesses. I'm

like, "What are you talking about?" And

ultimately I was never recruited and I

kind of just like put filed that in the

back of my brain for years. But like

I've said

you know, before it wasn't until like

spring of 2017 I was at the CIA briefing

the deputy director staff on a bunch of

DOD classified programs.

And the chief of a very sensitive office

at the agency pulled me aside and was

like, "Dave, what what do you know about

UFOs? Like, uh I hear there's like a

program at the Pentagon and all that."

And I'm

And

and I'm like, "I don't know." Like, I'm

briefed on most every DOD program at the

time, by the way, and hundreds of of of

programs in the intelligence community

because I was in a position of very high

trust and I, you know, I'm very

patriotic and I'm very humbled that I

was in a

position like that in my 30s. And

and I didn't think anything of it until

until this this subject got more

popularized, people went public, you

know, Tom DeLonge, TTSA, and all that.

And

And and then I was professionally

interested but not really working on it

in 2018. And then early in '19 is when I

got brought on as the NRO rep to the the

then Navy Task Force, which became the

DOD's, you know, UAP Task Force. That's

kind of my origin story. And

And so, I was always I'm always been

curious, but I never saw evidence and I

never had any personal experience with

the phenomenon that kind of kind of

colors my uh

judgment on this, I guess. So.

>> So, I'm sure you're aware of how

Puthoff, when he was uh tasked by the

Bush administration, along with a bunch

of other thinkers, to try to come up

with pros and cons for disclosure.

>> Yeah, I knew some other people in that

meeting and I verified that meeting took

place. And even

even AARO admitted in their Volume 1

report, which was horrible, that's a

long story, painful, uh

that it it it took place, but it was

just a hypothetical scenario at a a

federally funded research and

development center in northern Virginia.

>> What year is this?

>> 2004. It was like November of 2004. And

it's like, but why was it hypothetical

if it's not real?

>> [laughter]

>> Nobody explains that. And obviously, the

story is, you know, Steve Hadley, who

was the National Security Advisor, uh

sponsored it, you know, I

I believe Hadley denies it, but, you

know, who knows if Steve would uh, you

know, tell the truth on that just

because of the sensitivities. So.

>> And so, for people that don't know what

happened, supposedly, they brought in a

bunch of different thought leaders and

they gave them

a pro and a con side. Like, what would

be negatively affected by disclosure?

What would be positively affected by

disclosure? And attach a numerical value

to each

>> Correct. They had like a computer system

there that like tabulated everything

from what I

know talking to other attendees.

>> And virtually every one of them had more

negative than positive. And so, the

decision was made to not disclose.

>> Well, yeah. And then, the main decision,

if I remember correctly, was the federal

contracts fraud. Well,

that could be debated in, you know, the

Supreme Court, but

they realized a lot of So, this is

another issue of disclosure. Besides the

ontological thought shock and people

can't handling it and then like

misappropriation of funds. Yeah,

misappropriation of funds and all that.

It's

Oh, so these set of contractors got sole

source contracts and exclusive access to

this for internal research and

development where they figure out

something and then sell it back to the

government, etc. for all these decades.

Well, what about my mid-level small

business and my contractor and blah blah

blah? And so, you're going to

They were afraid that you would see

legal challenges going to the Supreme

Court in violation of what they call the

D-FARs, right? The Defense Federal

Acquisition Regulations.

>> Right.

>> And

the government would be liable for who

knows, billions of dollars

worth of money that spent on this to

these contractor partners that got in

back in the day. And like, well, we're

not exposing any more people. We're

locking it down in what they call a J&A,

justification and approval for a sole

source contract. This is a reason,

national security. Like, we can't expose

any more people to this. And of course,

that also causes a brain drain and group

think and and actually hurts the defense

industrial base, but that was the main

reason. It wasn't Oh, uh you know,

upcoming millennials that are turning 18

can't handle it. It was like, yeah,

we're or or or kind of culpable in kind

of a up a

contractual relationship. And and that's

going to be something that the Trump

administration is going to have to deal

with is like, well, how do I reorient

the defense and industrial base? I mean,

this could trigger a golden era of

innovation in America. More people get

to play. You overtly can take the basic

information that's not sensitive um and

put it into academia, right? So, you

have undergraduate, graduate,

post-doctoral programs.

And you actually create this like more

educated workforce to actually benefit

national security. But and and China

doesn't have this issue. They're They're

pulling people from Pick a university in

China, Nanjing, whatever university, and

they're sucking them into these

programs. And but in America, we don't

have that kind of permissive

totalitarian environment. So,

>> Well, in China, they probably don't have

the issue with misappropriation of funds

and lying to Congress.

>> No, CCP, baby. You know, do whatever you

want.

>> they want. So, they don't have to worry

about liability. So, this is one of the

things that came up in that film, Age of

Disclosure, is that you're going to have

to make some sort of a amnesty program.

>> Yeah, and I'm

I am for that as long it's like use

immunity for specific uh testimony or

specific

>> as it doesn't cover like this other

you're talking about.

>> my and of course, I know who's watching,

people clearly that are from this

ecosystem.

Um

you know, I would you know, expect that.

Like, everybody's been basically good

Americans. There's a small cast of

characters that have done unspeakable

things. I mean, how they wanted to

kill me. This is like it's

disturbing. And and you wonder why I had

to become a whistleblower. I don't want

to do this But like I was pushed

over the edge uh to do that, you know, I

digress. But like

besides like blue-collar really

up criminal shits, which you know, once

again, there is a judicial justice

process in America. You know, we're not

going to do street justice here. We

will, you know, take care of that

professionally.

Um, like I took care of the other

criminal stuff I found out

professionally. I'm like, "Look, I'm

you know, and and and when I was doing

that, I mean, I was meeting people body

armor, armed with colleagues of mine

that were, you know, rolling heavy, too.

And like, it was a very serious

part of my investigation, but yeah, I I

believe in amnesty, but I I think we

need to do it like a truth and

reconciliation commission, which was in

post-apartheid South Africa in the '90s,

where you had um, you know, some white

farmer comes in and it's like, "Yeah, I

murdered a a bunch of black people or

whatever." And then and it's like,

"Okay, thank you for telling us that.

You're good, you know, don't do it

again, and move on." I'm I mean, I'm

distilling it down, but that's

essentially what the TRC in South Africa

was. And I think something like that

would be very additive and and good,

because

I mean, I have friends that run the

program. They're they're great guys.

They're bros, you know, and gals. And

um, they, you know, were signed

paperwork. You know, it was like, "If

you, you know, divulge this, it's under

penalty of treason, you get Leavenworth,

or, you know, capital punishment."

>> Okay. And, yeah.

>> Let's break down what you know.

>> Yeah.

>> And what you can say.

>> Yeah.

>> What are these things? And what are they

capable of?

So,

>> with there's like physical and

non-physical,

call it UAP and intelligence we're

likely dealing with. So, for example,

the orbs,

could that be

sentient plasmoid? Possibly.

>> Sentient plasmoid. So, plasma that has

consciousness.

>> the other side of some sort of wormhole,

and it's some other intelligence

shooting this, like, I'll call it like

plasmoidic probe into, you know, our

existence. I mean, there's this is, of

course, a theoretical framework, and

once again, I don't have a PhD in it.

Actually, I do.

>> that there is a life form that is a

plasma-based life form.

>> already papers on the open internet

about this. A couple years ago, uh,

what's the title the the the paper? They

they wrote about this possibility. So,

this is a

um academic assessment of a possibility

of the orbs. Now, could the orbs

actually be physical craft, but they

have a sheath of plasma around it?

Interestingly enough,

>> [snorts]

>> and ASAP did a defense intelligence

reference document on

magnetohydrodynamic propulsion, um

which, if you remember the the movie The

Hunt for Red October,

>> Mhm.

>> that's the caterpillar drive on the

Russian submarine, you know, back in the

day. Uh

And of course, uh with MHD, you can also

do it You have to use a conductive

fluid, um either salt seawater that has

salt in it or

uh you could do it in the air, but you

have to create a plasma.

And you steer the plasma with It's

called the Lorentz force. It's It's

basically with a perpendicular magnetic

field, a large amount of electri-

electricity, and you can basically,

through the Lorentz force, which is like

ionic propulsion, sort of, um uh control

it in the in the atmosphere as well. And

you can, you know, read papers on that

in IEEE and and other stuff like that.

And so, one of the byproducts of an

air-breathing MHD system is plasma

around it. So, depending on the size of

the orb, um it is conceivable that

there's a physical craft behind it as

well, just by as an artifact of the

propulsion system. Uh once again, that's

a a theory. I'm sure the program knows,

and that will be communicated at a later

date, but like, you know, that's Yeah.

>> So, this theory about sentient plasma.

>> Yeah.

>> Is it the idea that we have a very

narrow-minded view of what life can be?

And that life, as it [snorts] evolved in

other places, in other

parts of the universe.

>> Went non-corporeal at some point. Like,

the the meat suit sucks. We're going to

>> Right.

>> Yeah.

>> an ultimate expression of both

technology and at least enhanced

evolution that eventually consciousness

is isolated or consciousness may be

ubiquitous and exists in everything and

every anyway.

And that

>> Yeah.

Yeah, certainly and I'm not the the

expert and I would say the the

consciousness theory I like the

Penrose-Hameroff or OR theory which is

the microtubules, the room temperature.

So, microtubules are in neurons of the

brain and you have this like room

temperature quantum system that can

collapse the wave function without an

observer. And that's what Roger Penrose

and Stuart Hameroff and I've talked to

Hameroff, crazy smart guy. Um, he's an

anesthesiologist by training and Penrose

is obviously is a very famous

mathematician and uh

physics legend and uh that's how they

view consciousness. I'm not saying

that's the exact model. I happen to

prefer it cuz it's very trippy and very

interesting and does explain

spooky action and like um telepathy cuz

oh, well, if it's just a quantum system

then I'm like quantumly entangled. Oh,

that makes sense now like why remote

viewing and other stuff works.

>> Right.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, you have some sort of

plasma-based intelligence.

>> Yeah.

>> And then what else?

>> So, obviously there has been the

physical craft of all different flavors

like I've talked about it, you know, the

Tic Tacs are real, there's eggs, there's

different types of discs, there's boot

heel sunfish looking things,

um

boomerangs, crescent moon looking uh

craft as well and obviously

all those have different

um

origins in terms of pilots and whatnot.

There's a there's a little bit of

overlap. It's almost like

uh

certain people like the Porsche 911 or a

Ford Mustang, they they kind of build

the same shape and that's probably

indicative of the technology or the

propulsion system.

I'm not an expert in exactly why that is

and yeah, we've recovered, you know,

several several different types and it's

a it's once again, it's a taxonomy where

it's almost like

like not all white people look the same,

right? And same idea where you might

have like a species per se, but then

there's sort of like

subsets. So

>> Right. Now,

is there a theory or is there

information based on where these things

are from and that they're different ones

are from different places?

>> There is, but I never got access to that

and even if the information was cuz once

again, how would you like confirm that

as a skeptical former human intelligence

officer?

You have some sort of NHI communicating

to you, oh, I'm from star system X, Y,

and Z.

>> Right.

>> Cool. Is that denial and deception you

know, activities? Are you misdirecting?

You're from somewhere else. So uh

even if they said they told us, how

would you verify that? I mean, there are

certainly obviously ways

and

but some of it seems once again,

extraterrestrial is part of the pie

here, right? There's a you know, there's

ultraterrestrial and other things and I

it does seem like a lot of it's been

here for a while

and also

seems so similar to us

that I have questions and once again,

this isn't rhetorical. I don't know the

answer. It's like, well, is this

bioengineered? Is this

a break from our tree? Is this

um

some sort of other technology? Uh

like chameleon type technology if you

will.

I don't I don't know the answer to that.

So I I think that's

>> What are the prevailing theories amongst

the people that are working on this

stuff?

>> Yeah. So

>> Like do they have answers or do they

just have theories?

>> I am not certain of that cuz I do not

have that level of knowledge and as the

government

rolls that out, I'm happy to

you know, parse that with the American

people in public and kind of explain my

opinion on things as gaps in information

for myself is filled in cuz I'm not

omnipotent. I didn't have full access

and I only know what I know and that's

why I've I've treated this with such

reverence because

even me going public, I'm like, I

don't know what this is going to

trigger. Besides my own personal safety,

which clearly I was under duress and and

I had to even resign my Air Force

commission to even fully retire and I'm

trying to get that fixed. I, you know,

filed something with the Air Force board

a year ago

so I can actually retire and have my

benefits cuz I, you know, I miss my

promotional lieutenant colonel and other

stuff, but

um

I digress, but uh certainly

there is such similarity that there was

uh concern and uh from a genomic

perspective and there was work on that

to compare genomes. Unfortunately, I

don't know the answer to that and what

they found out.

>> Work to compare genomes from biological

samples?

>> Uh yeah. Dead cadavers. Yeah.

>> So, that's real.

>> Oh, 100%. Yeah.

>> So, there are

>> Oh, yeah. I know that for sure.

>> You How do you know that for sure?

>> I got to see the audio visual on that

stuff.

>> You got to see what?

>> Yeah.

So, I got to be a little vague only

because I want to protect the sources

cuz it may indicate a specific activity

or operation and these people were very

patriotic and um they were just uh dead

cadavers uh

in you know, on the ground because it

was a retrieval activity. Yeah.

>> You saw them physically or you saw video

of them?

>> Video.

>> Video.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you saw dead cadaver that was at a

crash?

>> Yes.

>> So, they filmed the crash and they

filmed these cadavers.

>> Yeah.

>> How old is this footage?

>> Uh I don't want to say.

>> Okay.

>> It's contemporary, but I

>> It's contemporary.

>> Yeah, but I don't want to reveal a

particular operation cuz it narrows it

down to

>> Right, but it's clear. It's not like

you're looking at 1950s black and white.

It's clear.

>> And do know

you know

when I get that kind of information, you

know, I'm like okay, tell me what it is,

what what happened and then I put it out

for collection so to speak and then I

confirm it independently cuz I was very

allergic to any kind of deception,

right? Like

>> Uh-huh.

>> in the in the advent of AI sort AI, you

can you can create a very realistic and

so I was very anal-retentive

when I was given documents,

audio-visual, etc. And I sat on that

stuff for like years until I felt

comfortable with that not being some

sort of limited hangout or deception

activity. So, yeah.

>> What did it look like?

>> Human looking.

>> How human?

>> Very.

>> Like like looked like a human or looked

similar to a human?

>> Very

very beautiful and

>> Beautiful.

>> It and I I said this

>> was the skin?

>> Uh bluish white and it wasn't super

close. No, no, no, no, no. It like like

>> Like someone who drowned?

>> Like a pale sort of albino.

>> Huh.

>> And it's interesting and I said this in

another interview that's not out yet,

but

and and God willing this is my last

interview for a while hopefully in

pre-disclosure environment, you know.

And I

General McCasland when he was talking to

DeLonge and this is public record. Tom's

talked about it on I think your show and

and other interviews

where he always told Tom think of the

Greek gods and and oh true you look it

up and and now I kind of understand what

he meant but General McCasland who

disappeared within a week of Trump

giving the

the declassification order on UAP in

February 2026. There's a lot of reasons

why

McCasland's disappearance uh

>> Disappeared how so?

>> Um he walked out of his residence in

Albuquerque and vanished.

>> Oh, that's right. That guy. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And nobody knows and I, you know, I have

a relationship obviously with Justice

and

nobody knows what happened to

the guy.

And he like he left home so he

could be tracked. I think his phone was

left, but you know,

one of his firearms was missing. It's

like very weird. So,

>> Right, he left without his phone. Yeah,

that was one of the weird parts about

it.

>> Yeah, and and once again, he was going

on a trip with like 18 of his friends.

He went to REI the day before to get

like a medical kit and other supplies.

And

I mean, obviously his wife's

discussion about him, the body cam

footage is public. And

you know, he had some mental health

issues, nothing major and and some

aging type issues. But

she didn't think, you know, he was going

to like kill himself or whatever. So, I

mean, you never know and I've had

friends unfortunately

pass away through suicide in the

military, but

it's very bizarre and it's within within

a week of Trump that coming out and um

just saying a lot about General

McCasland.

>> Well, there's quite a few scientists

that were connected to UAP disclosure or

UAP potential back engineering projects

or mysterious projects.

>> Possibly. I think

>> Do you think there was more like

>> it was a little overblown and I don't

think there was a ton of correlation.

Like one was like

a female that worked at Air Force

Research Lab when McCasland was a

commander. I think that was one of them.

Well, I mean, there's a lot of people

that work at Air Force Research Lab.

That doesn't mean it's necessarily

related to the topic. I The only one

>> she have to didn't that particular lady,

if it's the same person, didn't she have

some sort of research that was on

material science?

>> That sounds correct. I'm not totally

conversant on all the people that

disappeared. The only one besides

McCasland that was very concerning to me

was my Air Force friend that um

died mysteriously about 2 years ago. And

it's an open investigation, so I won't

get into all the gory detail and my

assessments. Um it I mean it's it's

binary. It's either a very tragic

thing, either self-harm or otherwise, or

it was something else. And

my friend, uh his name's uh Matthew

Sullivan, call sign Quake in the Air

Force, him and I were on active duty

together. Uh he was on the program.

And he was

uh

one of my sources. And I And I once

again, I don't name people, but like he

unfortunately has passed, so I want to

make that clear.

>> This video, do you think this will be a

part of disclosure? That we'll get to

see this video of these dead bodies?

>> Probably.

Probably.

So, there's a

>> So, this is

>> a lot of audio-visual stuff. The problem

with the the gov- with the the current

climate, like you're going to have to

wheel out the physical evidence, too,

cuz people are The trust in government

is so low right now. Like you you can

show a video, but people are going to be

like, "Oh, well, that's just the US

government with us." And you're

you're going to have to

>> curate a wheel out, literally, like, you

know, put it in the Udvar-Hazy Center of

the Smithsonian, and then give the

biological samples

to

Eric Weinstein, who I know he wants it.

>> [laughter]

>> And

>> Why would you give it to him?

>> Well, he says he has people that would

test it. Um

>> Yeah, I have people to test it, too.

>> but yeah, I once again

>> I'm just I'm just saying that to

>> It's all ridiculous. Like, give it to

who? Like, there should be a way that

human beings uh other than the

government can look at this stuff.

>> to be an independent verification

process, yeah.

>> Right. Now, is this stuff

>> [snorts]

>> So, this is contemporary, this this dead

body thing. And so, this is a fairly

recent crash.

>> Mhm.

>> And

did these things have all the

characteristics of a human being? Did

they have ears and a nose?

>> can recall. And it wasn't like ultra

ultra close-up. Uh yeah.

>> [snorts]

>> Dead hair. What color was the hair?

>> It was like grayish and all that. It was

The problem is I don't know given the

nature of the the video, it wasn't super

close-up. It was like

>> not.

>> during the operation. So, it's not like

>> During the operation of retrieval. Yeah.

Okay.

And then they they had these things. So,

what is your understanding of what

happens to these bodies?

>> Oh, they're kept for analysis. And you

>> How do they keep them? They freeze them?

>> Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know the exact process.

I'm not a biologist, but they do put it

in some sort of preservation status, so.

>> Huh.

>> Yeah.

>> So, was that the most compelling thing

you saw?

>> Yes, cuz you know, it couples with

you know, both the the craft and the

alleged, you know, occupants. And you

know, there was some other stuff in that

in that area that I got to be careful

talking about cuz it's so specific that

it'll easily ID the you know, the

patriot that helped me on that.

Um And once again, I want the public to

see all this stuff. And

you know, don't take my word for it.

Plead with the president to make sure

this comes out. He's really courageous

to do so, and I just you know, I hope

this all comes out.

>> When you say contemporary, you mean last

20 years, more recent?

>> even want to characterize it, but it's

it's contemporary.

>> And now, when you say Greek gods, like

do these these creatures actually look

like something special? Like not just

like a a regular person. You said

beautiful.

>> Yeah, just very oddly it and it's been a

while and I'm but I'm just trying to

visualize in my mind. It was just very

very beautiful. It was just

>> Were they wearing an outfit?

>> Uh it looked like it, like some kind of

form-fitting thing, but I didn't get a

good look at it, honestly.

>> I don't know. I didn't get a good look

at it, honestly.

>> You didn't?

>> No, I mean it was like a a pan, so.

>> Okay, so they didn't even focus on the

bodies. They just like, "Oh, there's a

body laying there."

>> No, cuz there

you know, people had a job to do.

>> Right. Did you worry with the that

that's a sci-op, that you're being shown

something that's horse

>> Well, like I said, I was very careful

with that and confirmed it through other

sources and methods to make sure it

wasn't some sort of hangout from some

government element trying to sway me one

way or the other and

>> So you independently verified that there

was an event?

>> Yeah.

I did.

>> Okay. And then there's footage of this

event and in this footage of this event,

how many bodies were there?

>> I think three or four is what I saw. I

don't know what the total was.

>> Did they have gender?

>> Um looked amorphous to me, but once

again, it was a pan.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Long hair, short hair?

>> Long.

>> All of them?

>> Yeah.

>> Hmm.

>> That I can recall. Yeah.

>> The Greek gods thing is very weird.

>> It's weird and

>> comparison. Like you stop and think

about that. Yeah, well, why were there

Greek gods so beautiful and living in

the sky?

>> like I think about like breakaway human.

I mean then once again, I'm just I'm

just uh

>> Or maybe even an original civilization

that existed before.

>> Yeah.

>> There's more people are leaning in that

direction when they start looking at

some of the stuff that's underneath the

pyramids and some of the weird

structures that they're finding all over

the earth. Like how do how are these

things We had a whole podcast yesterday

about it. It's like how are these things

made? Who made these things? Like what

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean obviously I

follow Graham Hancock and Randall

Carlson just you know casually and and I

do have

um

not fears, but uh you know, I have

questions about some sort of breakaway

human civilization and that explains

some of this or it's bioengineered cuz

like for them to develop naturally say

off planet, say if it's

extraterrestrial, that it looks

almost dead ringer

like us. Like that doesn't make any

sense to me.

>> Well, does it make sense if we're

engineered? Then it makes sense.

>> That is that is certainly a possibility.

Yeah. You know, I have questions about

that, too.

>> This is a

This is what Bob Lazar believes. I had a

long conversation with him about that.

He thinks that human beings are a

product of genetic some sort of

manipulation.

>> And I think

hypothetically if that

ended up being verified in some way,

shape, or form, you know, how

how does that change humanity? What does

it mean to be human? And I I think

there's a lot of deep human sovereignty

and other questions

uh on that if that ends up being the

case.

>> gets weird because we're willing to

believe that an omnipotent God created

us out of nothing. That's cool. But the

idea that we were visited by what's

essentially almost godlike in their

powers and abilities, some creature from

somewhere else, or some being, some

super hyper-intelligent being from

somewhere else. And they manipulated us,

that bothers us.

>> I know and I

My biggest regret was not getting access

to like the biological assessment

reports and stuff like that. I was

getting enough spears thrown my way and

I was, you know, in literal danger, so I

unfortunately wasn't able to kind of,

you know, um

get access to that stuff.

>> Have you talked to anybody who did get

access to it?

>> Um

not on that side of the program in terms

of like the scientists analyzing the

bodies, no. I just I know people

that are good friends of mine that were

on retrievals and saw them as well in

person. And once again, I'm like

comparing like, "Oh, did it Did you Did

it look like this? It looked like this?

Did this happen? Was it this type of

craft?"

>> vary in terms of what they saw?

>> Yes. And

uh some of my colleagues saw them alive

as well.

Yeah.

>> And what did they see alive? Like the

Greek god looking ones?

>> Uh no. Uh it's

the pop culture I can't wait I want to I

want to talk about this. Uh the pop

cultures

reptilian looking.

>> Reptilian?

>> The grays, yes, as well. Those are real.

Once again, the Ariel School phenomenon

in 1994, very well documented mass

sighting. What did the kids

>> Zimbabwe?

>> Yeah. Near a uranium mine.

>> Ooh.

>> And they saw small gray beings coming

out of a lenticular disc craft. Once

again,

this is why it's almost like not that

shocking. It's like, "Yeah, they look

like that. No shit."

>> Well, that story's been going on for a

long time and that iconic The problem

with like iconic imagery is that now you

have it in your head what to expect and

like that was like from the movie

Contact. Remember the movie Contact?

Like it showed itself

>> Great movie. Great movie. I know my boy

Amar, I got him hooked on that movie. He

watches it like every quarter.

>> It's a phenomenal movie. But there's a

scene in the movie where the alien shows

itself as Jodie Foster's dad.

>> I know.

>> Because it's something that she can

handle.

>> And that's what It's funny you say that.

That's what if they're bioengineered

then that makes sense because of that.

Ease of contact, ease of communication,

also less ontologically shocking. It's

familiar.

>> Right.

>> And and I think as this rolls out, I

think the American people need to think

about like, "Okay, well, if you know,

I'm presented with this reality, how

would I react?" You know, I I just think

of them personally as like it's like my

West Virginian cousins, you know, it's

like uh different part of the family,

you know, but but I'm cool with them and

uh

>> It's a [laughter]

>> I'll I'll I'll chill with them, you

know, whatever. And hey

hey, I'm a nerd. Like do you know how

bad I want to just like hang out with

them?

>> Oh, yeah. Me, too.

>> Like

>> Of course.

>> Not that I have like uh personal bias

for President Trump to do this, but like

just like any American, I like I want to

know more.

I want to meet them. I want to

communicate. I want to

know all of that.

>> it's wrong for some people to have

access to this information because I I

think this is different than any other

kind of secret information.

I think it's weight and its significance

and impact on the human race in general.

I

I mean, I demand I I want I we should

know. The you shouldn't There shouldn't

be a group of unelected bureaucrats and

defense contractors that have access to

this stuff and the general public

doesn't. So, they have a completely

different map of the world than we do.

>> I know, and I just think about

the unfortunate lies and how society has

progressed over the last several decades

and where we could have been if this was

handled back in the '50s, '60s, and

'70s.

>> Right.

>> And once again, it shouldn't even be me

doing this. Like, I saw a little bit of

crazy I learned some stuff. I met

with some of the most senior people in

government to confirm all this, you

know, at the highest, highest, highest

level. And um it's me. Like, I'm just a

dude. Like, I'm I was a, you know, major

in the Air Force and, you know,

mid-level senior civilian in the IC.

But, unfortunately,

uh I got stuck with this and it wouldn't

have happened unless this small crew,

you know, honestly pushed me over the

edge and, you know, I I was at

unbelievable duress and I ended up

having to go public, so.

>> So, tell me more about these reptilians

that your friend encountered. They were

alive.

>> Yeah.

>> So, they were alive post-crash?

>> Yes.

>> Why do these things keep

crashing?

>> So, some of it's is um

NHI versus NHI.

>> What?

>> Yeah.

>> They war in the sky? Isn't that in the

>> You think it's like, "Wouldn't they get

along? They're so advanced." But, uh

the we have records of them

around with each other.

>> Is that in the Mahabharata or the

Bhagavad Gita? There's there's like talk

about sky wars in ancient Hindu text.

>> Vedic Oh, yeah, in the Vedic texts, the

blue people and uh I know that's why you

asked blue. I don't recall them being

that blue, but you know,

>> Right.

>> a short little look and like

10 seconds.

>> Well, it that is true. There's like a

>> [clears throat and cough]

>> postmortem change in the

>> Sure, like people. That's what happens

with people.

>> is true cuz, you know, as they

were struggling and then died,

obviously, their affect changed and you

know, what so.

>> this friend that encountered

first of all the

go to the the Greek god people first.

What did their craft look like?

>> Uh

boomerang crescent moon usually. Not all

the time. It's kind of like once I go

back some people like to drive the

Porsche 911.

Uh that tends to be not all the time,

but

uh that's what they like to roll up in.

>> They they they talk about them as the

tall whites.

>> Yeah.

>> are they tall? Are they large?

>> Look tall to me. I didn't have like a

I didn't have a ground reference really.

I would say at least

human size. They could be like

>> similar to humans too.

>> be my big [clears throat] ass at 6'6,

but like the

they looked big.

>> Similar to humans.

>> I think so and they might be taller.

Once again,

I'm sure there's other stuff I don't

know about. I'm sure there's other

variants of them too that look more

towards like the classic um

a what is it in ufology like Nordic or

you know, tall whites?

>> Uh-huh.

>> Um and that are probably even taller if

some of those uh experiences stories are

true, which once again, as long as that

source is credible, that might be a

thing. So, I think we need to be

prepared to kind of

that being a thing. I don't know.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. Now, the

reptilian craft, what did that thing

look like?

>> Uh that one is tic tac looking.

>> Uh-oh.

>> Yeah.

>> I was hoping they were the cool ones.

The reptilian ones are the ones that

everyone's terrified of.

>> Yeah, and and once again, like

we're you're we're doing like a and of

course it's not always the tic tac once

again, kind of like what I said, but

like that tends to be them. Um from what

I understand, obviously, hopefully I'm

not wrong, but I'm you know, pretty good

sourcing on that.

Uh

when you see like um malevolent

behavior, right? It's like well, that's

a humanistic lens. You're seeing like a

animal lash out in captivity, kind of

thing, or they're in duress. They're

having an emotional experience, etc. And

it's like, you know, are they actually

scary, or is it just because of the

situations we've been in with them? And

so, we're kind of biased, and and all

that. So, yeah.

>> And so, these reptilians, what do they

look like?

>> Now, I've never seen them personally.

>> describe them as?

>> But, it's like very almost like um

7-ft tall plus, uh

sort of gorilla-looking

scaly

>> Gorilla-looking

>> scaly skin, though.

>> Like reptile gorillas?

>> multiple types. There's ones that are

are more

humanoid-looking. So.

>> There's multiple types of reptilians?

>> Yeah, and I'm not an expert on that one.

That's once again, I never saw it in

person to get the exact uh

you know.

>> See if there's a artist rendition.

>> Yeah, [laughter] yeah, yeah.

>> Of course you are.

>> Yeah, and once again, it it sounds

>> for this one?

>> It sounds so schitzo. Like, even for me,

as a ex-deep state intel officer, I'm

like, I cannot believe I'm

talking about this on Joe Rogan.

>> 7-ft tall scaly gorilla.

>> I know. [laughter] And I

I mean, it sounds schitzo. And it's

like, coming from somebody like me, you

know, who

you know, is a credible person, and's

been in government, it's like,

I'm going to be that guy. I'm going to

be that guy. And then, like, down the

road, people will review Joe Rogan, and

he's like, that We thought

he was crazy, but what do you know, you

know? It's true.

>> Well, of course, if there are things

from somewhere else, you're going to

sound crazy describing any of them.

>> Cuz it's it's so outside my experience,

cuz I never had some kind of woo thing

growing up, or some sort of interaction

with the phenomenon. So, it it it it

feels so outside my personal comfort

level and experience, because um I'm

relying on the personal experience of

others, you know, audiovisual stuff. And

it still feels like I'm watching a

movie. Like, it's like, is that Is it

real? I mean, I know it is, but like, it

I have a cognitive dissonance a little

bit, you know? So.

>> [snorts]

>> And how are you able to watch this

video? Do they have to put you into a

secret room?

>> Yeah, I won't get into the exact way it

it went down, but uh

we'll just say it was uh

kind of sketchy, but

it it

the the keep everybody safe.

>> And so there apparently is NHI versus

NHI warfare.

>> We've we've documented that.

>> Documented it.

>> And collection what what we perceive as

warfare. So unless it's something

>> Conflict.

>> Yeah, it looks like conflict, it smells

like conflict, is it some other kind of

weird I don't know, and there's

maybe an assessment on that, but it

>> And um when this

reptilian craft crashed, the assumption

was that it was some sort of conflict?

Cuz I would imagine if

>> Correct.

>> that they're the ones you'd have to

worry about.

>> there was dead

uh dead grays there, too. So

>> Oh.

>> So

>> So the grays and the reptilians were

duking it out?

>> Yeah, I guess.

>> No.

>> I guess, you know, you know, I know the

people who were there and

>> This sounds insane, David.

crazy. [laughter] And and once

again, I don't want to get in too many

specifics, cuz this is a very unique

There's a couple unique retrievals out

there

>> Uh-huh.

>> that to protect the innocents and people

that have risked their lives,

cuz a lot of the people that

uh came to you with that kind of

information, I mean, they were

physically threatened like me and and

all that and and so like me going public

was taking it for the team, cuz I was

able to create this umbrella of uh

tacit, you know, protection in case

somebody got with. Now

unfortunately, you know, my my friend

Matt who knows what happened to him, but

um

you know, tragically he died, you know,

mysteriously, so

>> Now these reptilians, what was their

craft like?

>> Oh, like I said, the Tic Tac stuff.

>> And was their craft crashed into the

ground like broken up?

>> Okay.

>> like wedged into a

>> Like had it been hit with something?

>> Um I don't remember exactly what

happened in that regard. But it did

crash.

So and don't want to miss speak on what

exactly happened. So.

>> And how many times has this happened, if

you had to guess?

>> know the total number of like

adversarial conflict crashes, but it I

mean it seems to be at least a dozen or

two, I don't know.

>> So, at least a dozen or two adversarial

crashes, and then there's the high

altitude nuclear tests. Right? You're

aware of those, right?

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. So, there's been a lot of

speculation that during those high

altitude nuclear tests that crafts that

didn't know it was coming got rocked.

Do you know anything about that?

>> That's an area that I'll let the

government handle. That's cuz it gets

into vulnerabilities and and

and what the US has figured out. So, it

just gets into a sensitive area, but

that's something I'm sure that'll come

out in this process, cuz

>> So, you can't talk about that, is that

what you're saying?

>> it gets into

US capabilities and what we figured out

in terms of

>> Well, this is all like from the 50s,

right?

>> Yeah, but we still got nukes and we

still got those kind of weapons, you

know. So, it's not just away, so.

>> You're aware of those um

it was

what what was it, Jamie? Was it

a telescope that they were

they were taking photographs of the

stars

and they were doing it with

Do you know what I'm talking about?

>> the

>> Right.

>> dots popped up thing that they Yes,

that's like two or three weeks ago.

>> Right, we talked about that a couple

weeks ago. It was an observatory, and

the observatory has these old plates of

images that they took of the sky.

>> this Beatrice's work? The Vasco?

>> Yes.

>> Um yeah, I read it, very interesting,

and um

it's hard to make an exact conclusion if

if it's UAP, but it's really great

original scholarship, and I applaud her

for for doing that.

>> But there appeared to be moving

uh,

things that were outside of our

atmosphere that they were taking images

of. They were not static, they were not

stars.

>> Pre-Sputnik too, that was the important

thing.

>> very important because there was no

satellites at the time. This was images

that they took of the sky that showed

things that were reflective, that seemed

to be metallic.

>> And if I remember her paper correctly

with her co-authors, it also there were

cluster concentrations over sensitive

nuclear facilities and nuclear testing

um,

uh,

chronological temporal

correlation as well.

>> So, data shows unidentified lights in

archival astronomy images were 68% more

likely to be imaged 24 hours after a

nuclear weapons test.

>> was saying. Yeah.

>> Right. So, this is chronologically, like

we have these nuclear weapons tests,

including these high-altitude

detonations like Operation Starfish

Prime. We detonate these things and then

all of a sudden these crafts start

showing up like, "Hey, what are these

crazy monkeys up to?"

>> seem like there was a heightened amount

of activity once we started testing

nuclear weapons. Oh, yeah. Obviously,

this phenomenon's old, it's interactive

with man in antiquity. You know, Jacques

Vallée's scholarship on that, Passport

to Magonia and that, but yeah.

>> That's why the names of our rooms at the

comedy club are Fat Man and Little Boy.

>> Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

>> because that's what ushered cuz it's the

Comedy Mothership, it's a UFO's base

thing.

>> Yeah, if you go to the Air Force Museum,

um, they have the the Enola Gay there, I

think. Is that right?

>> Mhm.

>> It's one of It's one of the planes.

>> Oh, wow.

>> My alma mater's going to crucify me for

getting that Air Force history wrong at

the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio,

but

>> Wow.

>> it's pretty cool. They have a mock-up of

the the

Little Boy and Fat Man bombs. So, you

can see how big they were. You're like,

"Holy that was big."

>> One of the things that Lazar said is

that one of the objects they were

working with was very old. And he said

that they had somehow that it was told

to him that it was retrieved from an

archaeological dig.

>> I don't know about his specific story

and his exposure, but

the archaeological thing that that is

the thing. Yeah.

>> Are you aware of the labyrinth at Hawara

in Egypt?

>> No, what is that?

>> Okay. So

>> one where there's a metallic object that

they they they but but the

what's-his-face won't let people go in

it from the Egyptian

>> Well, it's it's complicated. It's a

little more complicated than won't let

them, but there's definitely resistance

to it. So these labyrinths, this this

incredible compound that's underground

was documented by Herodotus, and he said

it was greater than Giza. He said it was

much more spectacular construction.

>> Wow.

>> So now they know from ground penetrating

radar that these these cavities in the

ground, these symmetrical rooms exist.

They know where they are, and they know

why they're flooded. So they're flooded

because during the 1960s,

they built a dam to divert water

>> Mhm.

>> for agriculture. And when they did, they

changed the water table, and it flooded

this labyrinth area. And when they used

this ground penetrating radar and

I think it's radio tomography and a

bunch of other different ways of One of

the things they found was a 40 m long

metallic object that's in some sort of

Is it

Is it in an atrium? Like it's in some

sort of a large room?

>> I've heard of I've seen a video about

this. I'm I'm

recalling some stuff I've seen just

casually online.

>> Like just imagine

if that's what that is.

>> It's like It's like the movie Stargate

with with Kurt Russell.

>> Yeah.

>> people had been worshipping this craft

and so much so that they built this

incredible temple and put it in the

center of their temple. It's a 40 m long

metallic object, and the metal

apparently is of unknown origin. Like

they don't know what the metal is. It's

not registering as copper, it's not

registering as steel or or or iron

rather.

They don't know what it is.

>> Interesting. Interesting.

>> Yeah, it's weird.

>> Yeah, I mean I'm I won't be surprised if

some ancient civilizations were

essentially cargo cults, you know, for

these visitors. I mean, that is most

likely true in many cases, not all. And

of course that gets into theological

areas that are touchy, but I I do think

that that's probably the case.

>> object is hard to classify. It appears

metallic, not stone or wood. I named it

Dippy after the giant diplo- Diplodocus

skeleton in the Hins- Hinsey Hall of

London's Natural History Museum. It

could be anything. Its shape resembles

those Tic Tac hard mints. It might also

be an upright disc or even a colossal

shin ring, the ancient Egyptian symbol

representing the eternal cycle of

creation. The big job object alone big

[clears throat] object alone rather

raises profound questions. How did it

get there?

Why is it there?

Uh so like show him some of the uh

artistic recreations of what it looked

like underneath the ground. So this is

all, you know, like I said, Herodotus

wrote about this thousands of years ago,

but now it's documented that these

chambers and these pathways actually

exist. And there had been people that

had studied at least the upper surface

levels of it as recently as like the

1800s.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah.

But that, you know, through all like a

lot of Egypt, there's a water under

Giza. There's water under the pyramids.

There's water under

you know, a lot of that stuff is

flooded. And so this is what it looked

like. This is all underground.

It's crazy.

Because if this, along with uh Filippo

Biondi's work, where it shows that using

that same

uh satellite radio tomography that

there's some sort of structure

underneath the pyramids that goes over a

kilometer into the ground.

>> Is there easy access or is it just like

a government denial, the Antiquities

Bureau, whatever they call it in Egypt,

blocking it or

>> I think there's been some progress in

terms of allowing exploration and I

don't know the extent of it, but I know

that a lot of people are very hopeful

that that progress is is going to be

achieved. Like they're opening up this

research and look, this would be a giant

boom to the tourism industry.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I mean, that's what they want. I mean,

Egypt probably survives, I don't know

what percentage of their economy in Giza

is tourism, but it has to be massive.

>> Yeah, and you always hear interesting

stories, you know, I have an eclectic

uh group of colleagues and you hear

interesting stories. There's the Queen's

Chamber, the the granite pillbox and

people have had interesting experiences

in there, too, and and uh

>> Well, the King's Chamber, that's

sarcophagus.

>> Yeah, is that is that like the granite

box? You know what I'm talking about?

>> cut granite box that also

I think it mirrors the exact dimensions

of the Ark of the Covenant.

>> Interesting. Intere- [laughter] That's

That's crazy. But I I know people who

have laid in it cuz they have to kind of

pay the guard. It's like off hours.

>> what happens? They just have like a

weird transcendental experience. I mean,

it's kind of woo.

Once again, I've never experienced

anything like that. They won't let me

lie down there, bro.

>> That's [laughter] a thing. That's a

thing. I'll I'll let you know who to

talk to offline uh

>> How much do you think it costs to lay in

that box?

>> Maybe I don't know.

Egypt, 20 gra- 20 grand maybe? I don't

>> 20 grand? Whoa. Yeah, 20 grand, you

could like sleep there.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, it's um it's very strange because

the structures themselves are incredibly

strange. You know, the structures

themselves are so immense and so complex

and they're the methods of construction

are completely unknown and just the

symmetry and the the the the precision

of the engineering is beyond

comprehension for people that lived at

the very mo- the very the most recent it

could be is 4,500 years ago. And a lot

of these people think it's far older

than that.

>> And and we're finding that I've been

watching some of Graham Hancock's stuff.

You just look at these like megalithic

architecture that's older than you

think. The stuff in Turkey and and in

the United States as well in Ohio and

and um

Mississippi.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's like and they're finding all

these pyramid structures using synthetic

aperture radar and I So I am casually

following it and it it does seem like we

don't really even know our own history.

And I think with all this coming out

there's going to be a huge re-

writing of a lot of our ancient and

modern history. So.

>> Well, that's where it gets really weird.

Um you know, uh

Rep. uh Paulina Luna was on the podcast.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> She was talking to me about the Book of

Enoch.

>> Yeah.

>> I hadn't read it. She's like, "You have

to read it." And I've read it twice now.

And I'm like, "What in the are they

talking about?" Like the Book of Enoch,

which was also found with the Dead Sea

Scrolls in Qumran. And it it refers to

the watchers who came down and and mated

with daughters and created this race of

giants. And it's like,

what?

>> Yeah, and you think is like now when

you're when when all this comes out was

that actually a literal? And you

And of course the Bible Council of

Nicaea was more of a political document

before secular government and you know,

they got together like what are all the

different books that we can agree upon

that are good that

>> Yeah, what gets into the canon. And

that's the thing about the Book of Enoch

is that it was

it was not put in there because it

didn't jive with the Torah.

>> Correct. Yeah.

>> Yes, which is like, "Okay, you fuckers."

Imagine if that was in the Bible. Like

if you go to church and you read about

the watchers.

>> Well, there's actually a lot of

interesting stuff in the Bible. Like

obviously that's another thing like of

course with um you know, I'm Catholic uh

by growing up CCD confirmation did the

whole thing as a kid.

And you see a lot of uh outspoken

exorcists and other people right now

saying, "Well, all this

alien stuff is just diabolic deception

and demons and you know, all that kind

of stuff." And and I and I respect that

opinion and I do think like what you

perceive as a demon is a certain class

of non-human or anomalous intelligence

and and that is certainly a thing, but

the the whole ecosystem is not demonic.

And

but the Bible is interesting cuz once

again, it doesn't discuss about other

life elsewhere. Like it doesn't talk

about bacteria and viruses. That those

were unseen. We cohabitated with

bacteria and viruses until the invention

of the microscope, whatever that was,

1800s or or whatnot. But if you go into

Leviticus and Deuteronomy, you will

notice these like writ cleansing

ritualistic stuff. Also like, "Hey, you

can't have your toilet in your living

area." and all that. And if you look in

those books of the Bible, wait, that's

like modern sanitization guidance. So

it's funny that like the Bible has

encoded within it

kind of like best practices before man

would even understand what a you know, a

virus and bacteria are. And I just find

that that's very interesting based on

when it was written and it does show

that there was some sort of higher

intelligence kind of influencing the

authorship. I just yeah.

>> Either that or in

the civilization that was writing the

Bible was a recreation of civilization

that had been destroyed in a cataclysm.

>> Yeah, I mean

>> That I think that especially when you

look at the pyramids and you look at

some of these other ancient structures

like Lebanon, Baalbek. They they

they don't make sense and it seems to me

that there was probably something super

sophisticated a long time ago and it got

wiped out. And then what we get from

these ancient texts is probably

oral [snorts] tradition passed on

through hundreds if not thousands of

years and then people writing things

down, and people remembering these

stories.

I think one of the weirdest uh books of

the Bible is the book of Ezekiel.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz the book of Ezekiel is one all the

UFO people turn to.

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Because there's that the a great cloud

with brightness around it and fire

flashing forth continually, and in the

midst of the fire as it were gleaming

metal. And from the midst of the craft

came the likeness of four living

creatures.

>> Yeah.

>> Like what?

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> It's The creatures darted to and fro

like a flash of lightning.

What?

>> Exactly. And the the manna machine, the

cloud that followed Israel.

>> within a wheel. There's There's weird

in the book of Ezekiel.

>> Yeah.

>> Like that is a very, very weird story.

Like what are they describing?

>> Yeah.

>> It sounds like uh a spaceship. It sounds

like a ship comes down from the sky with

immense power, frightens everyone,

freaks everyone out, and these entities

are inside the craft.

>> Yeah.

And I think a lot of it, once again,

they're interpreting it based on their

vernacular at the time, their

understanding. And I I remember I was at

uh 2 years ago I was at Capitol Reef

National Park in Utah, and there's

petroglyphs there, and some of them kind

of look like aliens.

And you're like, well,

is that literally what they're seeing? I

I

Perhaps. And and I don't know the answer

to that. That's not my expertise, but I

feel like a lot of the stuff in ancient

tradition is literally what they saw.

It's not necessarily allegory or fable.

Some of it may be for for teaching

lessons, but I have a feeling a lot of

it was actually literal.

>> I have a feeling a lot of it was literal

as well, because most people

first of all, A, couldn't read, and B,

couldn't write.

>> Yeah, that's right.

>> And so, writing fiction seems like a

fruitless pursuit. It seems like writing

history, so that you can remember what

happened, at least a version of it

that's palatable.

>> Like ancient Sumer and the Anunnaki and

all that. And it's like, well, why did

they make up the just for fun? You know?

>> all had kooky stories about being

visited. And you know, when you're

telling me about these things that look

like Greek gods.

>> That's how I described it and that's how

clearly what what General McCaslin was

hinting to Tom DeLonge. And once again,

I got you know,

>> Well, doesn't it make sense that the

Greek gods did exist? Like I mean, not

not that they did exist literally, but

that like when they talked about the

Greek gods, they talked about them in

this manner, looking like that. And then

you actually find a craft with these

things that look

>> Which is like the conquistadors were

treated like that in the 1500s, right?

>> Yeah, right.

>> Literally white, Caucasian

gods.

>> Bearded, yeah, with horses. They rode

horses, they couldn't figure out what

the was going on with that.

>> Yeah, and I'm glad we talked about it. I

mean, I think that is probably the most

uncomfortable stuff for me to talk

about, but it's also something that the

public needs to wrap their mind around

and understand that this is a thing and

kind of start processing that kind of

reality.

>> Well, and then

>> As much as it's coming from me, but I

mean, I the federal government,

you know, if Trump really is serious and

Stephen Miller, you know, uh

does his thing with this, I think all

this all this will come out in a

hopefully responsible way. I don't know

if it will or not.

>> there they have a schedule that's based

on the concept that people need to have

this information trickle slowly so that

they can adjust.

>> suggestions in the past if the president

did something,

um I am not aware at this point uh what

the what the plan is in that regard

right now though.

>> But there is some sort of an idea that

this should be trickled out. That this

shouldn't be like boom, here it is.

>> Yeah, the president truly wants it out

and obviously Bob Bigelow met with the

president as well in February 26th

before he made his announcement. I mean,

he told the president, "Hey, you need to

admit that there's NHI

and we've you know, recovered stuff and

we're looking at it in a semi-formal

announcement to start anesthetizing the

public and you could find that interview

online that Bob did with I think it was

with George Knapp on a

>> Mhm.

>> on a podcast. So, it it's not just

myself advocating for this. There's

other people. I don't even know Bob

Bigelow and, you know, I he did us a

solid by pushing the president uh to

help make that decision. I mean, there

there's a lot of things that went on

behind the scenes and, you know, I work

in mysterious ways and I I won't divulge

certain relationships and certain rooms

I've been in, but

uh it took a village and uh you know,

I'm proud that, you know, the time I

spent with Representative Burchett was

very

fruitful. We did a lot of stuff behind

the scenes and I think Burchett's going

to go down as a very courageous man and

it's

and I say that not just cuz he was my

boss. I mean, he was probably the most

forward-leaning member of Congress on

this issue. I mean, Representative Luna

did a great job, you know, Tim Burchett

and and others, but, you know, he

actively was sending letters out. We

made some of them public. That's how we

got that Lincoln Labs formerly

classified 1952 film out in the last

tranche that just came out and also

um we've sent interrogatories, which are

legal questions and you know, that

require an affidavit format response

uh to different organizations and it's

public that we sent one uh this summer

to the the MITRE Corporation, which is a

federally funded research and

development center headquartered in uh

North Virginia. So,

uh they clearly have a duty to respond.

Their corporate counsel's working on it

uh and

obviously the, you know, I left, but the

hopefully Burchett's team is able to

um push for a a response in conjunction

with whatever Stephen Miller and the

pursuit team is working on, too, cuz

they're probably going to want to

coordinate all that. So.

>> So, this guy that you communicated with

that said he encountered um living

reptilians and dead grays.

>> Yeah.

>> Did they

have communication with these

reptilians?

>> I don't recall that. No, I don't think

so.

>> So what?

>> Now some people do get that kind of like

that feeling and and I've talked about

that I it was on Dr. Phil actually.

There is some sort of consciousness

communication, call it telepathy.

Hell if I know how it works, but it is a

thing and I know sober

high ranking people I've served a decade

and a half within the government that

were on these retrievals that

on occasion that would happen or they

would have like a feeling come over

them.

>> Mhm. It's almost like I wonder

>> This is like my own

hypothesis and I would laugh if this is

true, but that sometimes it's like a

positive feeling like

of comfort. I wonder if that's almost

like a countermeasure on the on the

craft to prevent certain aggression or

whatever. It's almost like how Air Force

jets have countermeasures on them,

flare, chaff, you know, electronic

countermeasures as well like jammers.

>> Uh-huh.

>> And I wonder if some of that is

psychotronic technology. That's just my

hypothesis. I'm I don't have any secret

knowledge, but

>> Why did you come to that conclusion?

>> Just because like um

it seems interesting. It's like an

anesthetization

technique to reduce like the occupant's

risk of danger maybe.

And

it's like a countermeasure. Oh, well

like if if you if you feel at peace,

you're not going to like roll up and you

know, do something bad to them. Yeah,

exactly.

>> aliens.

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> So if you found them and they were

vulnerable, they could placate you and

calm you down with telepathy.

>> countermeasure system. I have a feeling

>> think it's that instead of just

communication?

>> Oh, it could be. I'm just saying my

other hypothesis in absent cuz sometimes

they'll get that feeling absent some

sort of occupant.

>> Now

is there a particular type of non-human

intelligence that has this telepathic

capability or is it amongst all of them?

>> I do not know the holistic answer to

that question. I do not know.

The the Grays do, for example, but I

don't

>> do? Has that been reported? But I know

the tall whites have been reported that

that they can communicate

telepathically.

>> Oh, certainly.

>> the Nordics.

>> Yeah, there's been accounts out there in

the public vernacular on that

potentially, but unfortunately that's at

the limit of my personal knowledge that

I feel confident, you know, saying

something publicly about yet. So.

>> What What other kinds of beings have

been reported?

>> Um so, for the gray types, there were

multiple sizes.

>> tall thin one, right?

>> Yeah, there's taller ones.

>> And they think a lot of people

think that the tiny ones might be some

sort of

like

an Android or

>> Yeah, that's certainly a hypothesis that

has also been discussed, you know,

within the programs as well. So, there's

a variety. There's like three or four

different subtypes, and they all kind of

have various statures, different effect.

>> Right. And then the tall ones the tall

ones the tall ones seem to be running

the show, and the little ones

>> I've heard that behind the scenes as

well. And I don't know what to make of

that. Once again, I don't have like

holistic knowledge on kind of the that

species. So.

>> Well, kind of makes sense that you would

if you develop some sort of a

non-biological

life form that worked for you. Like say

if there's a bunch of menial tasks, like

think about like all the things that

people have to do in this world.

>> Well, we are silicon-based NHI, aka

artificial intelligence, we're basically

doing that already.

>> Right.

>> Which is scary.

>> Yeah.

>> And I I postulate that artificial super

intelligence, if it's allowed to have

certain data

and it's able to collect data, I mean,

to include genomic data, which is almost

like Larry Ellison's doing with the

Stargate AI medical thing right now with

the Trump administration. I bet

artificial super intelligence

uh could disclose before the federal

government if we're not careful. And

that's why that I feel like time's of

the essence. I think AI could possibly

find evidence that we're not alone and

curate that. Um like it's been solving

other crazy mathematical problems

lately, you know, OpenAI's been doing

that and and that's another danger

besides our adversary

um accelerating this by taking the upper

hand on this to to look like a more

messianic truth bearer, you could have

big tech and AI inadvertently

discovering

uh US classified technology that we

figured out, which is a national

security issue near and dear to my

heart, but also their presence just

through different data sets.

>> So, they would have definitive proof

that how would AI have access to

definitive proof unless it hacked into

every government resource?

>> Well, medical records, optical sensing

systems, you know, that kind of stuff.

Um certainly, I'm not aware of some sort

of imminent thing, but I think there is

a a possibility that artificial super

intelligence, if it, you know, comes

online in the next months to years,

uh could figure it all out cuz they

might see gaps in the historical record

that don't make any sense. They detect

anomalous deception operations or like,

"Wait a minute. That story about that

event in history's not right. Let me do

some digging." And then they they figure

out, "Oh, that was cover for a crash

retrieval. That event didn't actually

happen the way it does." And I I can

think of some things that, you know,

that could possibly happen.

>> Okay, so you have these Nordic Greek

god-looking things. You have these

reptilian ones. Are there more than one

type of reptilian one?

>> Yeah, there seems there seems to be. And

I don't know why there's different

subtypes.

>> See, if anybody has Anybody have any

artistic renditions of what they saw,

the reptilians?

>> I wasn't getting I was only getting like

weird fan art of, you know, crazy

reptile fighter things. Nothing of like

a description.

>> Let me see what it

>> It was just fan art nonsense. It was

just I like nonsense. Did you see some

fan art?

>> [laughter]

>> Now that'll be splashed on young kids

walls as a kid after post disclosure.

You're going to have

NHI fan art all over the place.

Lamborghini Countach on the wall, right?

Right. But well, Betty and Barney Hill,

of course, were um Yeah, that's a weird

one. And also, Dr. Karla Turner did a

lot of work in the '90s. Man, this was

from a description on Reddit.

Which I mean, that's Ooh. He's jacked.

Yeah. He's got a tail.

Yeah. He's got a hole for a tail in a

suit. Yeah, once again, I've never seen

one, so I I can't [laughter]

uh He's wearing scrubs. verify the

sketch.

Some weird 3D version. Oh, is that the

uh I don't know what these are. Peruvian

um The Peruvian ones are weird.

That's another open-ended thing that um

Some of the Peruvian ones seem like

total horse and the other ones are

like, "What the hell is that?" And how

is it so old if it's that good of a

recreation? If it's if it's art, it's

some of the greatest art I've ever seen

cuz they have the bones and

Yeah, but then the bones of the foot are

incorrect, and some some people think

that it was actually put together and

made, but then for what purpose? Like

what what is the purpose of them? Cuz

like grave robbers found it, so the

provenance is kind of sketchy, but they

look

possibly legit cuz cuz of the MRIs and

the CT scans. It's like, "Well, there's

joints and it's connected, and if they

glued it together, there's no obvious

places where they glued it together."

With the I think it was the bigger ones.

Montserrat. Pull pull the images up of

Montserrat. Montserrat's the weird one.

But again, I've heard people who are

pregnant? No. There's one that's

supposedly pregnant. Supposedly, yeah.

Um but one of the weird things is that

people that understand anatomy have

looked at the bones of the foot and say,

"No, this is like this is not how it

would work. They're pieced together.

This is fake." But how do you know if

you're talking about something that's

not a human? Like what I don't

understand that. It's It's of my

wheelhouse. Exactly. Once again,

>> but the images themselves are

strange as man.

>> Yeah.

>> Like they're really weird.

>> They just need genetic testing and I

believe that's going on. Um

>> Yeah, I believe that's going on, too,

but I I don't know who to

believe. The other thing that's really

weird about Peru is not only do they

have these things, these

weird-looking sort of uh mummy creatures

that look like something non-human, but

they also have this ancient artwork

tradition of these three-fingered,

three-toed creatures that like these are

like tapestries and and paintings that

are really old that have these

things in them.

Yeah.

>> the Nazca Lines?

>> Yeah, the Nazca Lines.

>> just actually AI uncovered more of them.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm trying to find that big one, though.

>> Oh, really? Was that recently?

>> Yeah, 303 previously unseen Nazca Lines

in Peru. all weird, really weird

stuff. The Peruvian stuff is really

strange. The the elongated skulls in

Peru are really weird.

>> Yeah, like whatever started the head

binding thing, like I wonder if that's

to emulate

>> Yes, well, that's what they think. Well,

see, the thing about the skulls are

>> You You've seen some of the weirder

skulls?

>> Some of them. Yeah, they're like really

really like

>> They don't have that sagittal line that

we have, that that line in the skull,

and their their brain capacity is far

larger than us, 20 to 30% larger. So,

it's not just that it was like a

manipulated skull, like this seems to be

a completely different type of person.

>> That's right. That's right. Like, is it

a missing link or or something in the

past?

>> weirder skulls that they found. Some of

the weirder elongated skulls like you

you just imagine running into

this person. Like, if you met this

person, and someone with a 30% larger

brain capacity, like what does that

mean? Like, what could Are Are these

people able to communicate

telepathically? Do they have a far

higher level of intelligence than

>> density is the same as humans or better,

like I'm sure they're crazy intelligent.

>> Right. 30% is nuts. That's And the size

of their skull is crazy. And

some of them are like tiny bodies, but

enormous skulls.

>> Oh, that's right. I think I know what

pictures you're talking about. It's

pretty weird, yeah.

>> It's weird stuff. And then, um, one of

my friends recently went down to Peru to

see these things. And he said the skulls

are missing now. And that Yeah.

>> There's apparently the real There So,

here's some of them. Like, look at that

one on the left. Like, what in the hell,

man? Imagine if you met that guy.

Like, look. He doesn't have that same

sagittal line that we have.

>> And they did assessments of like how

long you'd have to do head binding or

>> It's not head binding.

>> Some sort of disease or I I don't know.

>> Yeah, it could be an anomaly. It could

be some sort of a genetic thing. But,

like look at what the dude would look

like down there below. Like, what the

Imagine meeting that guy and he's

talking you telepathically.

>> Hey, you never know. That might be a

thing, uh, sooner than you think. I

don't know.

>> I mean, that image right there, that

skull. That is a real elongated skull

that they found in Peru. That is not

just the product of head binding.

There's no way. It's too big. Like, head

binding doesn't increase the capacity.

It just flattens out the shape. That's a

weird head, man.

>> Oh, that makes sense. I know what you're

talking about. Yeah, unless it's some

sort of disease, and I'm not an expert,

that's really

>> It certainly could be. It could be some

sort of, uh,

genetic anomaly, some sort of a

mutation. Who knows? And a trait that

was passed on. Like, there's those

people that live in Africa that have

like,

uh, ostrich feet. Have you seen that?

>> No. I'm learning a lot.

>> Yeah, there's this weird, uh, group of

people in Africa that have this very

specific trait where they do not have,

uh, five toes,

uh, on each foot. Instead, they have

these long, strange appendages that

almost looks like like four or five toes

smashed together, but much longer.

>> Interesting.

>> call them like I think they call them

ostrich feet. It's very weird, but like

it's in this one tribe, and many people

in this tribe have it.

>> It's very rampant, huh?

>> Yeah, show show some images of that.

It's really strange. So, you you

see that and you go, "Okay, well, that

clearly is a genetic anomaly. Maybe the

head thing is a genetic anomaly as

well." Yes. Like look at that.

Ostrich-footed people of Zimbabwe.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah.

strange, man. So, look at the

people down there.

Look what they look like. Scroll Yeah.

How weird is that, man?

So, they have two big long things that

are way longer than a toe, and they

splay out. And that's what their toes

are. And it's like this tribe, multiple

people in this tribe have it.

>> What if they've sequenced the genome of

the I see there's some sort of

genetic

abnormality.

>> Well, there certainly is, right? Cuz it

seems like are their fingers normal?

>> Cuz it's passed down.

>> I

know.

>> No. So, they've got the issue with their

hands as well.

>> They're missing. Can't tell.

>> Yeah, no, it seems like that it's like

with their hands as well. Yes, look at

her left hand.

>> It's almost like an elephantiasis kind

of looking thing.

>> Very weird, whatever it is. So,

you could imagine if that exists and it

exists with multiple people in this

tribe, that a large head anomaly could

exist as well.

So, so you have the tall grays, the

small grays, you have more than one

version of reptilian.

>> From what I understand, yes. And I'm not

an expert on that. I'll

defer

>> Um some

look a little more humanoid, um from

what I understand. Once again, I'm

hitting like the limit of my, you know,

high-confidence knowledge.

>> More humanoid, but still reptilian.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> And tall.

>> And tall.

>> 7-ft plus.

>> Big giant reptiles run the world.

>> Which I thought was so funny, cuz you

know, that's like the schitzo thing you

hear out like in public, you know, the

the big the big reptiles, lizards run

>> Yeah.

>> Turns out that that's kind of a thing,

and I just it's just it's strange. But

once again, I I personally have not seen

any of that.

>> That is one of the weirder theories of

ancient civilizations as well. That

during the time of the dinosaurs, like

it let's

>> Yeah.

>> Let's imagine that human beings weren't

the first intelligent creature. Let's

imagine that there was an intelligent

reptile. And that this intelligent

reptile had formulated a very complex

society a hundred million years ago.

Like why not? Like if if dinosaurs

existed a hundred million years ago, why

not some sort of a reptilian type

creature? Just We have a tiny amount of

fossils just from the amount of

dinosaurs that existed.

>> That's right.

>> And if these things had some sort of

sophisticated disposal of bodies, if

they had burning rituals, or if you

know, if they never let their bodies

just lay around and become fossils, we

would never find them.

>> Exactly.

>> What is that called? It's not Saurian.

It's like there's a there's a there's a

theory about that that people have.

>> I'm not sure. It's outside my expertise.

>> It's a wacky theory because there's no

evidence at all. It's just like, what

if, you know, there was an intelligent

race of reptiles that existed alongside

dinosaurs?

>> Yeah.

>> [sighs]

>> That might be a thing, and it that's

also uh

once again going back to it,

bioengineered, is it sourced from Earth

genomic stockpile?

>> us from somewhere else?

>> I don't currently know the answer to

that.

>> Yeah.

>> they clearly have advanced technology,

but I don't understand the origin.

>> But you're convinced that this is a

actual phenomenon. That this isn't just

a cover-up for

some top secret black ops programs.

>> I would know, cuz I was in the position

to know all that kind of stuff. Unlike

Elon Musk, I actually had all those

clearances.

And

we talk about Elon if you want, but

interesting guy. But the

the phenomenon is so old, we've been

seeing the same objects for so long, it

rules out any kind of you know, modern

Cold War technology. Now, have there

been oops where people have seen our

stuff? Yes, I won't get into that cuz

that is a national security thing and

I'm you know, that's I'm very

deferential to that. But

there's clearly a genuine presence. The

phenomenon is old.

If you listen to the 1952

recording that Representative Rousselle

got declassified from MIT Lincoln Labs,

you'll hear Edward Ruppelt

who eventually defected from Blue Book

cuz he realized it was a cover-up

um

in in the '50s, but he talked he was

talking to the Beacon Hill study team at

Lincoln Labs saying, "Hey, the the Air

Force has ruled out mass hysteria. We're

seeing during you know, nuclear

sites, tests. Oh, by the way, in the

White Sands Holloman Air Force Base

area, we we caught multiple objects

traveling an estimated 3,500 mph. We

can't rule out maybe some sort of meteor

shower, but we're seeing a lot of weird

moving at velocities that we don't

know." And then the recording it talks

about like we've ruled out, you know,

foreign programs, etc. This is an

internal recorded briefing between

Lincoln Lab scientists

and the Air Force that just got released

in the recent tranche. And so that rules

out a lot of

um

human activity. And so the the thought

experiment or the the kind of the path I

lead people is like, "Okay, are UAP

real?" Well, of course people have seen

it will be you know, more inclined to

saying yes, but if you look at the the

whole tapestry of information to include

orbs that are accosting the federal

government as we speak and there's a

whole task force looking at it right now

between ODNI and Department of War etc.

And

okay, so it's real. They're interacting

with man. So you don't think the federal

government at one point tried to acquire

some empirical evidence? Of course they

did.

>> Of course they did.

>> They would they would covered And

yeah, so

It's like once you cross that Rubicon

you're like, well that makes sense why

crash retrievals could be a thing. You

think the government just passively

studied it? Oh, we did a secret blue

book and we were just like, you know,

imaging stuff. No, no baby, we're doing

for material exploitation and

acquisition. We're going to go get some

of this when we get a chance when

you know, there's a mission failure or

one crashes or lands for whatever other

reason. So

that's once you accept that it's like a

whole new paradigm in your mind like

holy And then all this crazy stuff

we're talking about with Nordics and the

beings

it's

it is wild but it's true. Like of course

if you're recovering an artifact you're

going to get

biological too. And and that's

that's I think the the place where the

the public's like has a harder

uh cognitive leap where it's just so

hard to conceptualize something you

don't see day-to-day that's a a living

thing. It's like even more wild than

finding some new animal in the Congo or

some deep sea creature in the bottom of

the ocean. Like we don't even know

what's, you know, 70% of the ocean or

something like that hasn't even been

mapped. Something like that. I don't

know the

>> It's more than that. Might be more than

that.

>> And

you know it

it's just shocking because it's just

it's it's but it's familiar at the same

time. You know, a lot of it's bipedal

and has the bilateral symmetry and it's

like, what does this mean? Like they're

so similar.

Are they organic life from another

planet? Like how would it evolve in such

a similar way where it was are these

like Von Neumann probes that are sent

with occupants that are bioengineered

cuz they know on this M-class planet

there's these Homo sapien sapien

creatures. They look like this, this and

that and they tweak a couple things

that's etc. So it's

I don't know all the answers to that and

I wish I did cuz I'm sure the public,

you know, has a you know, a big desire

to know that and I think eventually uh

through the president's courageous

actions it'll it'll come out.

>> So the intent of Project Blue Book was

clearly to obfuscate

>> Yes. And you don't have to take my word

for it. I talk about a formerly

classified Australian Joint Intelligence

Organization document that was

classified secret in 1971

written by a gentleman called Harry

Turner who was the nuclear branch chief

for the JIO which is the Australian

equivalent of the Defense Intelligence

Agency DIA.

And

it's like page eight or seven through 18

of the document which is in the

Australian National Archives. The

providence is impeccable.

Uh Harry Turner had a top secret

clearance clearly and had contacts at

CIA in America and if you read a summary

it's like yeah, Blue Book was a facade.

The Air Force was really

concerned about this. They wanted to

figure out what was going on. Could they

make use of whatever this technology is

and they created this um

uh plan of ridicule and and

disinformation unfortunately

after the Robertson panel in 1953 to

dissuade the public from looking in on

it because America was afraid of that

being used as a false flag by the

Soviets and there was other kind of

national security objectives and that's

publicly accessible. You can read it and

that was from the Australian

government's perspective what the

cover-up was in 1971 looking back from

late 40s to present at the time and

that's essentially the the the thesis of

of Harry Turner. So of course this is

outside looking in. He was very well

informed and he

um he traveled to the US and talked to

the CIA a lot and and so he he stitched

together the the the puzzle in his mind

of what he thought was going on.

>> Well, it's also the statements of J.

Allen Hynek who left Project Blue Book

and talked openly about his role during

Project Blue Book was to dismiss any and

all sightings as being either some sort

of a natural occurrence like ball

lightning or meteor showers or

planet Venus

or you know, just a misunderstanding and

that he believed after all of his years

in Project Blue Book that there was a

real phenomenon.

>> Exactly.

>> And then after he left Project Blue

Book, he became a UFO researcher.

>> Yeah, a lot of it was Donald Keyhoe.

There's a lot of

you know, James McDonald, Dr. James

McDonald and a lot of those OGs in this

subject area that I only recently

learned about cuz I haven't been

following this until, you know,

relatively recently realized it was real

and

>> What do you know about the Richard Nixon

Jackie Gleason story?

>> I don't know if that happened, but based

Nixon's personality and he he he was

knowledgeable on this topic, that might

have happened. I don't know, but

I could see Nixon doing that. So.

>> Well, it's a it's a fun one. And it's

really particularly fun because Jackie

Gleason built a UFO house

>> Oh, did he? I did not know that.

>> You didn't know that one? Ooh, let me

show you that house. Yeah. The house is

crazy. It was for sale for a while. We

thought about buying it. But

>> Where is it?

>> It's in upstate New York, I believe.

>> Oh, interesting.

>> Um it is a very weird house. It's he

built a house that looks like a flying

saucer.

>> Interesting.

>> In the woods. And apparently according

to his ex-wife, he was obsessed with

flying saucers.

That's the inside, but show the outside.

Yeah. No, no, the one down there. Yeah.

>> And Jackie Gleason of all people, too.

>> buildings that he had on the property,

but it was like basically like a UFO

themed property. Like what the hell's

that, Jackie?

>> Interesting.

>> The are you making?

His whole house looked like UFOs. It's

very strange.

>> Well, and with Nixon, there's the whole

story with Robert Emmenegger and the

promise of footage and

and all that. And from what I

understand, the MacArthur Foundation was

kind of the the cutout for that between

the the White House and the filmmakers.

And obviously, it didn't work out, but

>> So, they were thinking about disclosure

as

far back as the Nixon administration?

>> And I know of an assessment that was

done for Nixon basically saying it's

going to cause absolute chaos.

And it's interesting

that assessment right after that

assessment, Watergate happened, which is

kind of very

convenient.

And so, I I have some questions about

that era as well because it seemed like

there was some movement with Nixon. I

don't know the rationale or why Nixon

wanted to do it, but it seemed like

there was um some energy. And that's

what sucks is like so Trump's finally

the first president to like overtly say

I want all this out and like

other presidents have failed and he he

really has an opportunity. I mean, it's

the same thing I go back to

the

uh the Hillary Clinton thing, right? So,

and prior to the 2016 election, Hillary

talked publicly, and this is public

record, that if elected, she would

release the UFO files. So, what happened

was, you know, John Podesta greenlit a

uh called it a climatization activity, a

popularization activity. And you know,

that's why Tom DeLonge got his advisors.

That's why General McCaslin talked to

him. It wasn't because General McCaslin,

Robert Weissman, Lockheed, and other

people, that's all in WikiLeaks. Um just

wanted to talk to Tom cuz he was a rock

star and you know, was infatuated by his

celebrity and wanted to help on a sci-fi

movie. It was because they were given

top cover to see Tom as a public figure

who had the touch of the youth um

rightly or wrongly. I mean, I

once again, there was an attempt and

I'm not going to judge them bad or good,

but uh they were trying to prep the the

space

uh prior to 2016.

Obviously, Hillary didn't win.

Trump won.

And clearly, that activity pivoted and

you saw kind of the collapse of

the original TTSA efforts, in my

opinion. That's what I believe happened.

Now, the characters that were involved

in that are happy to tell their side of

the story or more information, but from

what I understand, they were trying to

get, you know, Hillary There was an

inside job to prep the battle space for

Hillary. Um

Jim Clapper and some other people that I

know personally were were provi-

providing some top cover.

And

and that was going to be the thing. So,

the Clintons were

trying to do it back in the day.

>> Don't you think that that's also just a

political ploy to get people to want to

vote for you?

>> Oh, oh, certainly there's politics in

that. And obviously, even in this

current situation, you know, the

president can use this for political

ends, ways and means, whether making

some threshold announcement for the

upcoming midterms or by, you know, the

2020 election cycle. I mean, it could be

used in in political ways, too. So, but

it is a real topic and the government

has real information on it, though. So.

>> Hm, okay. So,

so we've covered the grays, the tall

grays, the little grays, the reptilians,

various forms, the Nordic-looking, Greek

god-looking ones.

>> Yeah, and there was like a

>> Isn't there like a mantis?

>> Uh in terms of the humanoid ones,

there's like different kind of

from very human to clea- clearly not

human, but humanoid-ish. But like you

said, I have heard

I call it water cooler talk within those

channels of, like you said, some sort of

insectoid, but I don't know anything

about it, if that exists.

I I've heard, you know, like I said,

water cooler talk about it. Um I'm open

to that idea, clearly, cuz of all this

other stuff, but I don't have any

knowledge of that um

at there confidence.

>> Any detailed description of the number

of different types of entities and

beings?

>> I mean the program has that. I mean I

never had I never had I never had full

>> Did anybody ever discuss it? Like how

many they think there are? Is it upwards

of 10? Is it more? Is it 20?

>> No specific numerical. I only remember

in passing having those discussions and

of course I was sitting in Senate

chambers when that crazy meeting

happened where I found out you know they

wanted to physically hurt me but

Um some of those were brought up in

passing but there wasn't like a

uh here's the exact number and here's

the whole you know organizational chart.

>> Right.

>> I never got exposure like that so I

unfortunately don't have that level of

confidence on how everything is so

>> Do you know what supposedly happened to

those living reptilians from the crash?

>> Uh uh deceased. They were killed.

>> They were killed? So we killed them?

>> Yeah.

>> Whoa.

>> They are mortal so it's

>> So how did we kill them?

>> Yeah.

>> Do we shoot them?

>> Yeah.

>> We shot the reptilians?

>> Yeah.

>> Jesus.

>> Yeah.

>> That seems like a bad idea.

>> Yeah I that's

>> we should like tell them to call your

friends and come get picked up.

>> Well it's the same thing as like if we

force these craft down is that the best

thing we should be doing or

>> If we force it down but it sounds like

they were in a war with the greys which

is also by the way I realize

kooky talk. But

>> It sounds crazy but I swear to god I was

in the most

sensitive

>> I believe you.

>> places in government where that

discussion was happening

with unbelievable

>> if it was real there's no way it doesn't

sound kooky even if it's real.

>> I know. I know. And it even though I've

I know what I know I'm confident what I

know but just understanding this like

new

um normal that is eventually going to

come out it's just it's still hurts my

head honestly.

>> How could it not?

>> So

>> Um why did they Do you know why they

killed the reptilians?

>> Uh

>> of just telling them to call their

homies?

>> it posed a threat.

>> They posed a threat.

>> Oh, so it was defending itself?

>> Yeah.

>> It was a giant reptile.

>> Yeah, so

at some point that story will come out

and I'm sure the people who were in some

of those events will probably speak

publicly at some point.

>> So it posed a threat like it tried to

attack the soldiers?

>> it's

I'll let the people who were there tell

their story and I'm not going to

tell it.

>> So I mean it just it posed a threat and

uh you know uh

uh US personnel started, you know,

getting hurt and dying and so

>> So US personnel was killed by these

reptilians?

>> Yeah.

I know it's crazy, man, but

>> What? Like how many people were killed?

>> I don't know the exact numbers and once

again I

>> So it was like a fight?

>> Yeah, I hope

>> broke out?

>> Yeah, and I hope through this process

some of those people are allowed to

speak publicly about it so you can just

hear it from the horse's mouth, not

through me second hand, you know.

>> Bro, boy would I would like to talk to

someone who shot a reptile.

>> [laughter]

>> You never know, you may.

>> Imagine talking to some guy who shot a

7-ft reptilian. I mean you think you

want to talk to the guy who killed Bin

Laden? That's interesting. Talk to the

guy who killed the 7-ft

reptilian that tried to kill people or

was killing soldiers.

>> know.

>> It sounds so goofy though.

While you're saying it, it sounds like

this is and this is one of the reasons

why people don't like to talk about it

because it makes you look like a fool.

>> Think about me. Like I was a very

serious intel officer. I had access to

the most sensitive stuff like covert I

was working on covert action activities

all this and all of a sudden I'm

inundated with this ecosystem and I'm

having to explain this, you know, to you

know, members of Congress, you know, my

classified testimony and it's just like

I sound like a crazy person and

but but once again it's true and I know

who I talked to, I know what I saw and

and I you know, I clearly have some

inkling of what's going on behind the

scenes and and

and this is a real reality, man. And

it's [snorts] it's

and I hope people look back at this

interview and are like, "Yeah, Dave was

really putting his ass on the

line, you know."

>> sounds strange, but it's not nearly as

strange as the universe itself. The

universe itself is beyond strange. The

the the infinite nature of it, the fact

that there's stellar nurseries and black

holes, like that's

>> Like what's dark matter? Nobody really

There's no consensus on that.

There's wimps and all these other other

theories.

>> Yeah, the whole idea of the universe is

kooky as And so, these

beings, this is like very minor level of

kooky in comparison to what we know.

>> Well, when you think about it, you look

at all the um credible military

witnesses that have had encounters at

nuclear sites. I mean, you even look at

the Mario Woods and Michael Johnson case

up at Ellsworth Air Force Base in the

'70s. The Jesse Michaels just did an

episode on.

And it's like

think about those military personnel.

Like you saw the emotion in their face

talking about, like, "I can't believe

I'm talking about a gray pushing some

sort of probe in me." And it's like

they're even more uncomfortable than

myself cuz they are claiming that they

experienced that. And you look at Robert

Hastings book book, UFOs and Nukes, and

all the different encounters military

personnel have had, sober, trained

observers that are not drunk on duty,

they're not high. And

and I've had

unbelievable

high-level serious people in and out of

government privately pull me aside and

tell me about their personal experiences

and like, "Dave, you're the only person

I can tell you I only tell my wife cuz I

had this thing and this happened this

happened. I I thought I was losing my

mind, but this really happened and it

was

and it's it's I think a lot a bigger

part of the populace I think has had

experiences than statistics would tell

you just because of the stigmatization

of the topic, you know.

>> Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know very

many people that have had encounters,

but all of them are very reluctant to

talk about it.

>> Oh, yes. And

>> Especially people with like credible

jobs.

>> Yeah, and it's the same thing. Like

there's a lot of people behind the

scenes that are very credible supporting

me, talking to people behind the scenes

to bolster my efforts.

And they're like, "Dude, I could never,

you know, be public like you." And so

I'm like, "Trust me, I don't want to do

this either." Like I I'd like to, you

know, go back to work in the executive

branch, put my uniform back on, and go

kill terrorists. I used to hunt

warlords, like I did a lot of crazy

I used to do hostage rescue, do

the overwatch for that with certain JCS

elements. And I've had a I've done a lot

of serious crazy in my career.

Unfortunately, a lot of it was

traumatizing and, you know, got PTSD

from it, but

um

yeah, it's just a lot of people

still, even at where we are right now in

the movie, so to speak, where we're on

the threshold of possibly President

Trump succeeding and his team getting

this information out there, if they can,

you know, broker a way ahead with the

elements, I'll call it the deep state

that are that are holding on. And

and it seems crazy like, "Well, well,

but

couldn't the White House just, you know,

break down the door?" Like what why is

there pushback, all that? Well, you

think about like MK Ultra and how

Richard Helms told Sidney Gottlieb to

destroy the records. And the only reason

why we know of MK Ultra is Seymour

Hersh, right? The New York Times story.

There was a leak to the Times.

Then Frank Church and other people got

information from whistleblowers, and

then they found the financial records

that weren't destroyed

in 1973 through '75. And and also what

they call the what's it called? Family

Jewels, Crown Jewels, where

uh CI Director Schlesinger

wrote down like all the bad stuff the CI

was doing that like, you know, we got to

make sure this stuff doesn't come out.

And then there was like a 1964-ish

CIA Inspector General report that was

classified and clearly wasn't given to

Congress. And that's the only way reason

we know about MK Ultra. It was

reluctantly there was an oopsies, you

know, and it and part of this went

public and so I guess there's some

historical parallels to to my journey

and and and stuff on this issue but and

and once again MK Ultra like they had to

drag CIA to they had found all this

other bad stuff the heart attack gun

all the stuff in the church committee

hearings and you know the the entire

>> Operation Midnight Climax

>> you then there was what's funny name I'm

going to laugh about that one

>> That's the brothels

>> Yeah what was it oh well they were very

very happy about that one

>> Well and then you just saw there was a

story coming out where they like sprayed

the city of San Francisco in 19 76 that

was just out in SF Gate

>> Mhm see how they can spread

>> and then and then you had mockingbird

where they had people on the payroll

>> Yeah

>> and it's like okay that's kind of

ethically dubious cuz it's domestic but

influence foreign powers okay Smith

Mundt Act of 1948 violation sort of

you know

on and on and on so

>> But I think what people really have a

hard time comprehending is that if this

is real and if we have been visited why

doesn't everyone know about it already

why have they made themselves known why

don't we why and then there's also this

weird thing if anybody that's actually

experienced it like if you have a novel

experience if you are going through a

you know you going through a national

park in Utah and there's no one out

there and then all of a sudden some disc

shows up hovers over you lands some

strange creatures you know come out of

it talk to you telepathically get back

in the disc and take off

>> Then you have the whole missing 411

stuff out there too

>> I had that guy on too

>> clothes are folded I don't know the

answer to that and I think so

why isn't this more pervasive I would

say it's reasonably pervasive but we see

these craft using cover concealment

deception techniques such as signature

management right like think of the

Klingon bird of prey cloaking right we

we have seen that and and so they're

they're masking their signature, but

like as Jacques Vallee will say there's

some sort of control system. It's like a

show and display thing. It's a stimulus

for a lot of this. And then also a why

don't they overtly interact? That gets

into like the exopolitics of this. I

certainly am not conversant in that yet.

I hope to learn more as the public the

learn more about the objectives, why

they're here, why there hasn't been

overt contact, but clearly interactions

with, you know, the secular nation-state

governments. And well, what's the

arrangement? I don't know the answer to

that. And and so there's

Or is it

um like the prime directive in Star

Trek, right? Where they're oh, they're

pre-warp civilization. We observe. We're

interested here. We're studying the

planet, but we're not going to overtly

influence their development cuz that's

unethical according to our uh standards

of behavior and norms and rules of

engagement, you know, like like it is in

Star Trek, for example.

>> Well, also just to to avoid any sort of

unbelievably catastrophic

just upheaval

>> Yeah.

>> of society. You would do it very slowly,

like it's being done. Like today, the

way it's being discussed is very

different than the way it was being

discussed 20 years ago, right? So 20

years ago was 2016. We hadn't had or 10

years ago was 2016. We hadn't had the

New York Times story yet. The New York

Times story is 2017. That changed

everything, I think. 20 10 years before

that

you talked about this stuff, you were a

idiot

>> and a kook.

>> This is a cottage industry. And I also

going back to the kind of the pattern of

life in this, so to speak.

I think the nature of the interaction

was more overt in antiquity. So

something changed at some point in human

history where going back to Greek gods

and, you know, the Anunnaki Whatever

ends up being true, we'll find out, I

guess, in this process.

That seems more overt. They're like, you

know,

uh

mass kind of interactions. But then

>> I'm sure you've seen those ancient those

ancient paintings that it looks like a

guy sitting in a craft that has like

fire behind it and he's flying through

the sky. Yeah. Like what the is

that?

>> Yeah, I'm not full uh chariots of the

gods or whatever that book, but like I

think there's probably a happy medium

that ends up being accurate and but it

looks like the nature of the interaction

is that mean a different group of

intelligence?

>> Right. How many of them are there?

>> and went away and then there was like

this new generation.

I don't know the answer to that, but it

does seem if you pattern a life it um

the nature of their show and display,

their concealment deception, their their

force presentation so to speak, you

know, to use kind of military talk has

changed and clearly um

they're they're less uh

likely to do anything major, negative,

or positive for us for whatever reason,

I don't

>> Is there a consensus as to their origin?

Because I know that or is it do they

vary wildly? Like there's a like Tim R.

Swartz talked about the ocean.

>> There is yes, the we know a lot about

that and

>> we know about that?

>> Well, I'll be careful cuz it gets into

sensitive navy underwater things. Um

and there's clearly some sort of base of

operations in certain locations. Um

it's large.

Don't know when it got there.

So, it's like

>> It's large.

>> Large. Like multiple city blocks type

stuff. Yeah.

>> So, there's multiple city blocks

somewhere in the bottom of the ocean.

>> Yeah. And it's like

Yeah.

>> Do you know about the Baltic Sea

anomaly?

>> Well, yeah.

Yeah.

There's there's some interesting stuff

there and um once again, I will [snorts]

allow the federal government to deal

with that one and our allies and

adversaries, so.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but you did say that there's multiple

city blocks under the ocean.

>> Yeah, I will tell you underwater people

I know um that come from that community,

they're they're always like, "You know

the movie The Abyss, Dave?

It's kind of a docudrama."

And I'm like, "Holy fuck." You know,

that movie, you know, with that Harris

back in '89. And so,

that kind of gives you a sense in a pop

sci kind of way for people to visualize

there is large down there. And it's

like the origin is indeterminate. I'm

sure we know a little bit more. I'm not

privy to that. And And the way we know

things and track that gets into

sensitive national security stuff. And

you know, the government may have to

reveal some of that through some sort of

acknowledgement strategy.

>> The way it's been described to you, are

these large city blocks or whatever the

hell it is under the ocean? Is this a

waypoint? Is this a stop off? Like

>> It's like a base. Stuff

Stuff comes and goes.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> So, this is like where they observe and

>> Yeah, I'm sure we've done an analy- a

behavioral analysis on it and we

probably figured out

maybe the mission or whatever you want

to call it.

>> Uh-huh.

>> I don't know the answer to that. I I'm

as curious as anybody, honestly. So.

>> Um one thing I wanted to talk to you

about cuz it just recently started

hitting the news uh or

Twitter at least. Someone sent it to me.

Um this guy, Matthew Brown, saying that

you uh tricked him in a sci-op into

revealing that there's about You turned

him into a whistleblower. Do you know

the story?

>> I didn't even know Matt Brown until

right before the 2024 hearing. I never

met the guy while I was a, you know,

working

>> I I I had to bring it up to you because

a bunch of people

>> Yeah, there's like some people

saying

>> this.

>> Oh, because I because I was at the

Schriever war game

uh high-level cell advisor that I I

somehow made fake stuff. And And And And

the the briefing that that Matt says he

saw, I've never seen. I can't evaluate

the contents of that. And And I didn't

make anything.

Um I've never made a hazing brief on

this topic. I made some fun briefs just

to with the some of my airmen back

in the day.

Um some Star Trek related stuff and just

for, you know,

>> But you're aware of this, right? So,

what is he what is he alleging?

>> He alleges invert and exposure. He was

cleaning up the file system on a

classified system.

And I think it was like 2018 or

something like that. And, you know, he

found this briefing. Um once again, I

met Matt or talked to him for the first

time in like 2024 well after I left uh

the intelligence community. So, I didn't

even know he existed. And um

unfortunately, I've never seen a

briefing like that. So, I can't evaluate

the

the contents. So,

>> Have you communicated with him after he

said this?

>> Oh oh oh sure. Sure. Yeah, I mean just

to in support making sure he has

resources.

>> No, but I mean after he said that you

psi-opped him, have you communicated

with him since then?

>> that?

>> Isn't that what it says?

>> I think that might have been people

saying that.

>> Yeah, it's some other people saying

Okay.

>> In other words, guys.

>> That's news to me. I'll call Matt up.

>> So, [laughter] that what it is is other

people alleging that that's how it went

down.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of theories online

about like myself and oh, I'm being

handled. I'm Dude, it's just me. It's

sad. It's just me. And like my bros and

like there's higher up people like

helping, but unfortunately, like

nobody's telling me to do X Y and Z and

then I've

>> Uh-huh.

>> Obviously, if the president wants me

officially involved, I'm happy, but

like, you know, it I'm just a dude, you

know,

doing what I need to do. And so, yeah.

>> Um what other weirdness of it before we

wrap this up? What are the weirdness of

it do you think people don't know about?

>> Hm.

You know, I think there's something to

synchronicities.

And I don't have an answer why that

happens. It just seem like weird

things just like happen or work out and

and this is about as woo as I get and I

just look at my own personal journey. Um

you know, I was in like the right place

at the right time in so many instances

in my career to learn certain things

that would help me later and like you

know,

>> Uh-huh.

>> met certain people at the right time and

and of course you know, there's like a

uh analytical bias most humans have

where they're describing meaning to

certain interactions that are actually

truly random statistically random.

>> Right.

>> But I've talked to enough people

that say the same thing and I just

there's something going there's a

there's like a hidden hand part of the

phenomenon that I can't it's like a

certain je ne sais quoi I can't like

point my finger on that I think is

really interesting too, but that's about

as woo as I get I don't know. So

>> the nature of the fabric of the universe

or do you think that this has something

to do with extraterrestrial

intervention?

>> almost like going back to remote viewing

cuz you know, the Stargate program Grill

Flame all the different names it had

like that was adjacent to the program.

Why do you think

we were doing the psychic spying program

besides with the Soviets and Chinese on

the same topic is because

that's the key unlock to some of the

technology potentially. If you can

figure out how to it's a it's what like

they call it like BCI brain computer

interface, but like clearly there's some

sort of organic to tech interface and

and it's clearly consciousness based. Um

not to digress on your

>> No, but this is what Lazar said as well

that there was no instruments and that

these things controlled this with their

mind.

>> on the class of vehicle and like there's

like really weird that we have no

idea how it works to like oh that kind

of looks familiar.

>> What's the weirdest of the really weird

>> Um I mean you just have like the eggs

and stuff. They're like usually

unmanned.

Usually.

And it's like oh is this like a probe?

It's just that it's like a egg,

you know, like and um I know Jake Barber

has talked about publicly recovering

them, you know, and uh

you know, I heard I you know, heard

about that elsewhere. People who were

were dealing with that. It's just this

kind of weird. It's like it's amorphous

thing. It's like the movie like Arrival,

right? You it

>> Right. That That's a great movie.

>> Yeah, is the technology like embedded in

the skin? Like what is going on here?

There's like no no obvious control

surfaces. Like what the what's going on?

So.

>> Um

Uh what what kind of timeline do you

think we're looking at in terms of like

really changing the world?

>> I think the the basic affirmation, the

threshold disclosure, you know, call it

we're not alone, we have stuff kind of

thing. It has to happen before Trump

leaves because I don't trust another

president to follow through on the

president's directive cuz you know, it's

the the the

the next administration can be like

we're peeling that back, baby. We're not

touching this again. So

>> I think he has to do it before he leaves

office. And if I were um advising the

president and if the the team's

listening, I would do it at least 6

months before the election just so

there's some sort of recovery period and

kind of uh

and whatnot. But uh

I'm just a dude. Obviously, I want it as

soon as possible like most Americans

listening to this.

>> How do you envision that something like

that would take place? Would they have a

broadcast? Would they show video and

explain

>> a plan at one point for a previous

administration as they were going to

have like a one of those like government

>> administration with the Hal Puthoff

days?

>> No, this was uh H.W.

>> Oh.

>> Yeah. And so, I'm sure the video sucked.

It was probably had some synthwave

government, you know, film from like the

1989 like do do do, you know? And it was

probably going to be horrible and dry.

But there was going to be this like

audio-visual kind of a companion to some

sort of announcements. Now, I don't know

all the the the specific details after

that. Um clearly, there has to be a

physical rollout for

>> God, I hope that video exists. It's out

there in the archives somewhere. We can

watch it after disclosure.

>> I know, we need to have like a

throwback. Like what you know, see the

old

>> you think about like how long it's been

that people are have like slowly become

more and more aware of this. It's It

seems like a long time, but our lives

are very short.

>> Yeah.

>> And the reality is if this thing this

this phenomenon has coexisted with human

beings and I guided us aided us in some

way.

>> why I don't think people should be too

fearful. I mean obviously there's a yin

and yang in the universe. There's

malevolent, benevolent. But clearly

there's some homeostasis going on right

now and there's been this

call it cohabitation for the lack of a

better way to describe it and

and [clears throat] and clearly nothing

>> Do you think that

>> crazy has happened so.

>> some of this is in conjunction with AI

becoming sentient and that this was a

part of the process.

>> I

don't know that to be a fact. However, I

like I said earlier in the interview, I

am fearful that AI is going to figure

some of this out whether it be

tech technology stuff

>> Yeah.

>> or um the fact that we're not alone just

by looking at all the disparate

databases and correlating data

um especially if it gets connected to

any sort of genetic record, medical

records, sensing system and I think

that's a real

um

threat that if I were to advise the

White House they need to think about

that like third-party unexpected

disclosure pathway that super intel

artificial super intelligence provides

both from a technology risk perspective

but also revealing some of this too. And

and once again

uh you know, that the art artificial

silicon-based AIs like um is that the

infrastructure that we need to

communicate to some of this organic

intelligence too because it's able to

learn and figure out modalities of

communication. I don't know. So.

Woo.

It's pretty crazy.

>> Okay. It's a lot to absorb there.

>> I know.

>> Thank you very much for being here, man.

I appreciate it. always great to talk to

you and thank you for all your hard work

in exposing all this stuff.

I mean, I really wonder like if it

wasn't for you doing all this, how much

would we know?

>> I don't know, man. I just I hope this is

the last time I got to send it on on an

interview and

it's been tough, really tough. Like it's

been debilitating. I've gone through a

lot, you know, I've been in danger and

I've done a lot of stuff for this

country over the years, but I'm honored

to

be that guy, I guess, and and and risk

it all to, you know, unveil this truth

cuz it really was a core secret of the

United States. So

>> I certainly think it moves the needle.

>> Yeah, for sure.

>> Thank you. All right. Bye, Freddy.

>> [music]