Original subtitles

Hi, everybody. We're still on lockdown.

Hope you are too.

Maybe you saw-- I hope you did--

the conversation with Anthony Ray Hinton,

who survived 30 years on death row

in solitary confinement.

He had a few things to say about how

we can manage our feelings in this crisis now.

He's a survivor,

and I wanted you to meet another survivor.

Her name is Dr. Edith Eva Eger.

She survived the Holocaust,

actually had to dance for Mengele,

when she first arrived in the death camp.

And she wrote a book called

The Choice: Embrace the Possible.

And her message that none of us

has to ever be a victim to our circumstances.

No matter what the circumstance,

we all have the ability through our mind to rise.

And so today, our conversation,

Oprah Talks with Dr. Edith Eger.

Hello, Dr. Edith Eva Eger.

-How are you? -[chuckles]

Hello, hello, hello, Oprah Winfrey,

the beautiful role model to us all.

Oh, thank you so much.

So you're 92.

And up until this, were-- this virus,

you were still seeing clients every day,

helping them overcome their trauma.

How are you and your own family managing in this moment?

Oh, I couldn't be more excited to tell you

that any moment,

my grandson's wife is expecting twins.

Oh.

I'm going to have six great grandsons pretty soon.

That is beautiful. That is beautiful.

So have you been-- you've been sheltering in place.

You've been staying at home, obviously.

I am. I am.

But it doesn't stop me from

being as active as I can be

and doing what I was called to do,

to guide people from victimization to empowerment

and to see that all this is temporary,

not permanent.

[Oprah] Well, you know it was almost a year ago

that we sat down...

-Yes. -At my home.

-To discuss-- -In the Maya Angelou--

Yes, in the Maya Angelou room here

to discuss The Choice: Embrace the Possible.

And I told you then and I still believe

I love that title because I think it's so relevant today,

particularly when so many people are feeling stressed

and out of control and a sense of uncertainty.

But as one who has been through one of the most stressful,

uncertain, and atrocious experiences

in the history of the world, surviving the Holocaust,

what do you want to say to people at this moment?

I'd like to say to people

that we are all in shock right now

because that was totally unexpected and unanticipated.

And to be able to allow ourselves,

give ourselves permission

to feel the feelings of hopelessness,

and yet not allow us to become less than who we are.

And ask ourselves, "Is this the best I can do?"

And chances are

that I hopefully can give people the tools

how to think about their thinking,

which will create the feeling not to ever give up hope.

And find the hope in hopelessness

and to be able to somehow become much stronger for it,

because we're never gonna be the same.

We are never going to be the same.

-Never. -As a country, as world.

Why do you say that?

Because any experience

makes you stronger if you survive.

That means that you have the mentality

of finding some good in everything,

that this is a wake-up call, that this is time out,

and to be able to really see in what we--

we can empower each other

to stretch our comfort zone

and to really find a way to become survivors,

and never, ever to be victims of anything, anyone,

or any circumstance.

Well, I think it's difficult when--

I think you're right, obviously.

You're the therapist, I'm not, and I think--

I've often thought of it in terms of,

we have to go through the five stages of grief.

-Yes. -Beginning with shock.

And then denial.

Everybody's still feeling like they can go out and do whatever.

Until we--and then being upset about it--

anger-- and work our way to acceptance,

which is the final stage of any grieving process.

-[Dr. Eger] Yes. -Work our way to acceptance

so that we can begin the work

of doing what we need to do in this moment.

Oh, how beautifully said.

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross is wonderful in telling us

that there are stages of grief,

and anger is not the primary emotion,

because when we're angry,

chances are that we expected something different

than what is happening.

There is a gap between expectation on one hand

and reality on the other.

And then you go back and ask yourself,

are my expectations realistic or unrealistic?

People can ask themselves,

"Is this the best I can do, what am I doing now,

ad how's it working for me?"

To have a goal and then focus on what you're focusing on

and see whether it can get you to the point in time

that this time is to regroup,

and not only that, but re-decide--

re-decide--

what am I doing with something I cannot change...

-Wow. -From the outside.

So I will really pay attention

to my attitude and the way I respond.

Not to react.

Because when you react, you don't think.

You shoot from the hip.

To be able to respond

just like we were able to practice that in Auschwitz

because we didn't know what's going to happen next.

We didn't know whether water or gas is gonna come out.

So there's a big difference between stress and distress.

Mm.

You know, you survived Auschwitz and then later--

later you earned two Master's degrees

and a PhD in psychology,

became this expert trauma therapist,

where you're still doing that in San Diego.

Oh, absolutely.

You of all people are uniquely qualified,

I think, to guide us in this moment

in managing our fears and anxiety right now.

So you just said we have to be in a position to respond.

What are the steps,

actual steps we need to be taking right now

to keep ourselves sane and whole?

I think it's very good to pick an arrow that you follow.

You want to be sure

that you are not running away

from the feelings of rage.

And it's okay to express the rage,

because you cannot really forgive

unless you go through the rage.

You know, the shock, the denial, anger--

the anger has, underneath,

a lot of fear.

Mm-hmm.

And fear and love does not coexist.

Right.

So to be able to let go of something,

but you cannot let go of anything

unless you replace it with something else.

It's just like a trapeze artist.

You hold on because you have a fear of falling,

whether it's, you know-- there's something or not.

But I think it's very important

to acknowledge that you just cannot let go

unless you have another way to look at the situation.

It's the same situation.

The question is

how you can look at it from a different perspective.

[Oprah] And once--

To offer the different perspective.

Okay, so you once said in the book The Choice,

which we all have,

that being alone is really the best company you can have.

[Dr. Eger] You've got it.

And I think that's important

for a lot of people to understand right now.

I think for a lot of people, and I know some,

that this is the first time they've had this much alone time

and this much time with their families ever.

I couldn't say it better.

This is the time for you that you didn't have before,

so consider it an opportunity

for discoveries, not recovery,

but to discover the kind of skills

that I discovered in Auschwitz.

This is the time to see

how we can unite as people to--

to hold hand in hand

and create the family of--

of wonderful ways

that we can communicate now

that we didn't have before.

So everything is an opportunity.

You tell-- you tell this--

this wonderful story in The Choice

about the moment you all are in the cattle cars

and you are approaching Auschwitz,

and it's one of the final times you saw your mother

before she was taken to the gas chambers,

and she turned to you and she said--

can you tell us that story?

Yes, she hugged me,

and I'm picturing her now as I'm crying,

to tell you that everything happened

just the way she said to me, and I quote,

"Honey, we don't know where we're going.

"We don't know what's going to happen.

"Just remember.

No one can take away from you what you put in your own mind."

And this is exactly what happened.

Everything was taken away from us,

and that's what's happening now.

We cannot change what's outside of us,

but we can certainly reach out

and to be richer and to be able to--

or closer,

get to know one another and make peace,

especially maybe a sister

that you didn't talk to for years

or your parents that you don't realize

that half of you is your mother,

half of you is your father,

and it's--find the family within you.

There is a little girl in you,

a little boy in you that has dreams.

But the family now finally can have

more family dinners together

and get to know one another,

and give birth to that you,

that genuine, beautiful you that you gave up early in life.

So I think it's a wonderful time

to take inventory of your life,

to take stock of every part in you and really--

It's like that beautiful Derek Walcott poem that says,

"Pay attention to the you--

to the you you ignored for so long."

Yes.

The you that you've ignored for another.

Absolutely.

The you you've ignored for another.

Oh, honey, I'm so happy that I--I get to talk to you

because I'm really, really wanting to be sure

that people will have this "aha."

This is not the best I can do,

and I can be free at last.

Well, one of the things that you say that I think is so crucial

is that there really is no crisis,

which is an extraordinary comment

coming from somebody who's been through

one of the world's greatest crises,

the Holocaust.

You say there is no such thing as a crisis.

There's only transition.

I love that so much I want to say it again.

There is no such thing as crisis.

There's only transition.

Explain that for everyone.

Well, especially in midlife,

we talk about midlife crisis.

There is no such thing.

I just can't have any children,

but who wants them anyway by then?

And I think many of us now

really facing a decision:

what we're going to concentrate on.

How are we going to see everything in life

as an opportunity,

as an opportunity to really discover

the parts in us that was dormant?

And now it's coming to the fore.

[Oprah] Yes.

You wrote in The Choice

that the opposite of depression is expression,

and we've seen so many people

rising up, getting creative

to lift each other during this time.

People are finding new ways to connect with one another.

How can self-expression be healing for us in this moment?

Because what we do with anger, we either suppress it,

vent it, and I like it to be dissolved.

-Mm. -Dissolve the anger.

Because that will never--

the anger will never really give you that freedom.

Because while you are angry,

you're still a prisoner.

I would still be a hostage of the Nazis

if I would live in--

in hate and anger.

Yeah.

So it's really self-love, which is self-care.

As you know, I say it's not narcissistic.

And it's very, very important this time

to give birth to the you

that was really, really given to us

by the wonderful God that put us here to have joy,

to have passion for life.

I find it so interesting that you wrote a book

so many years ago based on your Holocaust experience

called The Choice,

because you wanted everybody to know

the choice that you had to make

to no longer be a victim.

And now we are all faced

throughout the world with this choice

to not to be victimized by this virus,

but to use this moment for what it has to teach us.

And what do you think this moment has to teach us?

I think if we all just look at the virus and focus on the virus

and the virus, and we're locked down

and we can't do the things that we want,

we're gonna miss this moment.

I think it's a pivotal moment for our humanity.

Yes, to live in the moment, and right now,

you can write down all your favorite poems

and the people who wrote the poems,

your favorite music,

things that you never had time for before.

My second book is called The Gift.

And having--

people were asking me to write another book

to have more how-tos, something more practical.

-Mm-hmm. -If then, if then.

That the more choices you have,

the less you're going to feel like a victim.

And this is a good opportunity for everyone

to give themselves a gift...

-[Oprah] Yeah. -Of time out.

I ask these questions because I firmly believe

that there is a lesson in all experiences,

and that this is a moment

that we can all raise our consciousness.

I say that also being very much aware,

but when you are trying to take care of your kids at home

and homeschooling and now bombarded

with all of the reckonings

that have come to be because we are in this moment--

not having enough, you know, food

and not knowing if your job is going to be waiting for you

when this is all over--

it's hard to think about consciousness

when you have, you know, basic life struggles.

Absolutely, and that's why

the family becomes closer together,

because they come up with rules

that somebody can make a dinner once a week

that you can really stretch.

Stretch all your comfort zone,

and the family can really, truly cooperate

and not compete or dominate.

Mm.

So it's a time to rethink

that whole family process...

And re-decide.

There's a time to reorganize, rethink.

I think what you said earlier-- it's a reset.

-It's a reset. -Yes.

-It's a reset. -Yes, very important.

-I couldn't say it better. -[Oprah] [laughs]

I couldn't say it better.

You're the one everyone is looking for,

and I hope that you will be able

to be as healthy and beautiful and spiritually...

-[Oprah] Well, thank you. -Inspiring.

I hope you do the same and you stay well.

-We need you. -[Dr. Eger] Oh.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Eger.

-Thank you so much. -Why, thank you so much.

Beautiful. Beautiful seeing you.

Thank you for having me.

[Oprah] [laughs] Good.

-I love you. -[Oprah] Love you.