Original subtitles

Hey, everybody.

I hope you're doing well out there,

safer at home,

as we remain safer at home in California,

still in lockdown at my house, as we all should be.

It's given me time, actually, to call friends

and stay connected in ways

that I hadn't made time before this virus hit,

and the other night I called a friend

who spent 30 years on death row

for a crime he did not commit.

Imagine, 30 years in a 5'x7' cell

knowing that you were innocent.

It took 30 years for his case

to be taken to the Supreme Court

and eventually overturned.

And I was wondering if he was suffering

some kind of PTS, being confined to his home

and not being able to go out,

and it turns out it's just the opposite.

Anthony Ray Hinton has some words of wisdom

not just for me but I think for all of us.

So, happy to talk to him today.

Anthony Ray Hinton! Anthony Ray Hinton.

Good morning to you, sir.

Good morning to you, and thank you for having me.

Well, look, I wanted to talk to you

because the other night,

I had the time,

with all of this time on my hands,

to call my friends.

I was just--and you are on my list of friends...

-Well, thank you. -[Oprah] And I called you.

I thought you were saying some pretty inspirational things.

I was thinking about you

because as one who spent

30 years locked up,

-on death row... -[Hinton] Yes.

For a crime that you had to go all the way

to the Supreme Court, Bryan Stevenson did,

to prove that you were innocent,

and to spend all that time behind bars,

not even bars, just concrete,

and not even seeing the sun or the sky or trees or grass,

I thought maybe you would have some words to share for people

who are frustrated being locked down

for now almost two weeks.

-[Hinton] Right. -People are losing their minds.

So how are you doing, by the way?

[Hinton] I'm doing wonderful.

Life couldn't be any better for me.

I mean, I woke up this morning,

and I could hear the birds tweaking

and the sun was shining,

and, hey, life is great, really.

Really, so you're not having any kind of PTS,

post-traumatic stress, of this idea of being--

'cause I was calling Gayle the other day

and she was saying, even though she's going

to work every day, she was saying,

the idea that you can't go anywhere

is psychologically upsetting

because to be told you can't go somewhere--

you know this feeling very well.

I remember in your book, The Sun Does Shine,

which, for those of you who don't know,

I chose for my book club selection

a couple of years ago

'cause I loved the book so much,

but I remember you saying

that when the sentence came down,

and you knew that you were going to

have to go to death row...

[Hinton] Mm-hmm.

That you went blind for a moment.

I did. I absolutely did.

Just hearing the words, "I sentence you to death"...

Mm.

Just took my eyesight for a second.

-[Oprah] Yeah. -I looked back behind me

to see my niece, but I couldn't see

anything but darkness, and that word--

I had never experienced or heard someone say,

"I sentence you to death,"

and so that's where it was,

and I just went blind for a few seconds.

[Oprah] Yeah.

Can you take us back to that moment where--

I hope everybody, actually, now that we have so much time,

this would be a wonderful time for y'all to read

Mr. Hinton's book The Sun Does Shine--

take us back to the moment, you're--

you're cutting grass in your front yard,

somebody appears-- not somebody--

police officers appear out of nowhere,

take you to put you in the police car

and tell you what, that moment when you were

in the back of the police car,

saying, "What am I even being charged with?"

Yes, I asked them, why was I being arrested,

and they wouldn't tell me,

and I kept asking them and asking them,

and finally, the detective that wasn't driving

turned around and said,

"We're charging you with first-degree robbery,

first-degree kidnapping,

and first-degree attempted murder."

And I said, "You got the wrong person.

I haven't done none of that."

And he said, "Well, let me tell you something right now.

I don't care whether you did or you didn't do it.

I'm gonna make sure you're found guilty of it."

I said, "For a crime I didn't commit?"

And he said, "You must have a hearing problem."

And we drove a little farther, and he--

I'll never forget, he turned around

and gave me the five reasons that I was gonna be convicted.

And once he gave me those five reasons

why I was gonna be convicted,

-I got to the county jail-- -Well, what did he say?

What did he say the five reasons were?

He said, the five reasons, number one,

he said, "A white man is gonna say you shot him.

Whether you shot him or not, I don't care."

He said, "Number two, a white man is gonna be the prosecutor.

Number three, you're gonna have a white judge.

Number four, you're gonna have a white prosecutor.

Number five, you're gonna have an all-white jury."

And he said, "Do you know what that spells?"

And I said no, and he said,

"Conviction, conviction, conviction, conviction."

And I kept thinking,

how in the world can you go from cutting grass

to being locked up for a crime that you didn't commit

and you know you didn't commit?

But once I got to the jail and I sat in there

for about two and a half hours, he finally come back

and I asked him, I said,

"What date and time did these crimes take place?"

And he told me the date and time,

and I said, "Oh, thank you, Jesus,"

and I said, "Thank God,"

and I said thank God because my supervisor was white

and I figure once you go out there

and talk to a white supervisor, he'll tell you I was at work,

you'll come back and say, "Mr. Hinton,

we made a mistake.

It's over with."

He left, came back about five hours later.

He said, "I have good news and bad news.

The good news is, we're no longer

gonna charge you with first-degree capital"--

I mean, "robbery,

attempted murder, and kidnapping."

He said, "But the bad news is, we have decided

now we're gonna charge you with two counts

of first-degree capital murder."

I said, "But I haven't killed anyone."

He said, "You really need to do something

about that hearing problem.

Didn't I tell you coming over here

I didn't care whether you did it or didn't do it?"

He said, "The same goes for these two charges.

I don't care what you did or didn't do.

But remember this, I'm gonna make sure

you're found guilty of it."

-[Oprah] Wow. -And that's what he told me.

I never will forget those words.

I wanted to talk to you because you spent 30 years,

the first 15 years before you met Bryan Stevenson

from Equal Justice, and...

and then Bryan Stevenson spent another 15 years

before he could get it to the Supreme Court,

to prove that you were innocent.

I mean, a person who's just cutting grass in your--

on your mother's lawn

and just picked out because you are a black man.

And now you spend 30 years on death row.

How did you survive?

And what advice do you have for people who are now

feeling convicted to be locked down

and removed from society?

For a temporary amount of time.

-We don't know how long. -[Hinton] Absolutely.

But people are feeling like this is unbearable.

Well, you know,

when they first put me in this tiny cell, 5x7,

I sat on this steel bed, and I sit there

and I told my mind, at that moment,

"I need you to make this cell as big as possible."

And I just kept my head bowed down as though I was praying,

and I won't sit here and say it was an hour later,

it was five minutes later,

but the cell began to seem bigger.

Now I feel in my mind I can cope

with being in this big room.

And the second thing I told my mind,

"I need you to erase the world that I once knew."

Mm.

I knew that even from being in jail,

there was no way I could continue

to believe in the world that I once lived in.

So I had to create my own world.

-[Oprah] Yeah. -And I erased my mind.

Erased that world.

I had to forget about going to dinner,

all of that, because prison is not a place

where you can live in the sense of where you once were.

Because it'll only make it worse.

Which is interesting because I think so many people

are living with the, you know, temporary regrets

about what we could be doing and what I should've been doing

and all the things we're having to sacrifice at this moment,

so what you're saying, ultimately,

is that you've gotta bring yourself

to the present moment right now

and deal with what's happening right now.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

You will drive yourself crazy

trying to worry about what was,

what could have been, what should have been,

what you didn't get, all that.

-Exactly. -Yeah.

You know, my advice would be to people to--

this is a time when you can get to know yourself.

Now, people might say, "Well, I know myself."

I thought I knew myself,

but when I got in that 5x7, for the first time,

I realized something over course of being there.

I was stronger than I ever thought I could be.

I had love that I thought I could never give.

I had humanity that I didn't know I had.

And then I began to realize that, you know,

I'm complaining about something,

but yet my life is still good.

I'm healthy.

This is gonna work itself out.

And I need people to realize that this virus is gonna pass.

Use this time to make yourself better

and to make those around you better.

Sure, who wouldn't like to go out to dinner

and perhaps have a fine meal and a glass of wine?

Create that image in your mind.

Go in the kitchen as I was telling you the other night.

Prepare something-- it may not be a five-star,

like a chef did, but enjoy.

Yeah, you're using this time to--

I love it, I called you the other night,

and you said you were-- you were in the middle

of making potato soup

and it wasn't turning out too well.

-Nope. -[Oprah] I love this line.

You said to me, "I don't know if I had

too much of one thing or not enough of another.

But I got lots of time to try it again."

Absolutely.

Ms. Winfrey, if nothing else,

I want people to realize that-- take a deep breath.

Inhale. This will pass.

But you have to do your part in helping making it pass.

And that is for all of us to quarantine ourselves

and stay quarantined until we are told by those

that are working diligently, I truly believe,

to find a cure for this virus.

So I'm advising people to sit back,

take a deep breath, enjoy what you have.

I was in prison. I didn't have what I have.

I have an iPhone now. I can Facetime you.

I can call you.

I can go in the kitchen.

I have three rooms that I can go in and out of.

I get tired of one room, I go to another room.

I can call Lester, who is my friend.

We can talk.

We just don't see each other unless we're Facetiming.

You know, one of the things that I thought was so striking

about The Sun Does Shine, your book,

you talked about when you first went into prison,

that one of the things you talked about in the book

was missing rain.

-Yes. -Missing rain.

Missing the sunshine.

And the reason you call the book The Sun Does Shine

is because when you first walked out...

-Yes. -There the sun was.

But missing rain-- I think this is a time

for all of us to take stock of the things that matter.

[Hinton] Exactly.

[Oprah] And pay attention to our lives.

Like, you spoke of earlier about hearing the birds.

You know, for some reason now,

I think the birds are louder around my house.

-I was like, whoa. -Yes.

Maybe they're missing all the people

in the streets or something.

It do--you know, I sit and laid there,

and I didn't realize how much the rain meant to me

as a human being.

I took it for granted.

Like most people, we take it for granted.

"Oh, it's raining, man. It messed up my day."

And as I stayed there over the years

and over the course of years and years,

I began to realize I didn't appreciate that rain

the way I should have.

And I didn't ask God for a whole lot

when I was locked up, but I asked Him,

if it was His will, allow me to experience the rain

one last time.

[Oprah] Wow.

And every time it rained,

anybody that knows me, and especially Lester,

if it rain, I walks in the rain.

Because I took it for granted.

And I think this is a time that all of us

should make a list of what we takes for granted,

and once this virus is gone,

don't take those things for granted anymore.

Enjoy, because you're only gonna be able to be here

for a short period of time, so why not enjoy?

One of the things I think we have

throughout the world taken for granted,

and I was just speaking to a reporter,

Monica Maggioni, the other day in Italy,

and she was saying what everyone

has had to come to grips with even in her own family

is losing your loved ones and not being able

to even have a funeral to bury them

because you're not allowed to gather in groups.

And you experienced that while on death row.

Your beloved mother,

who you were the closest to in the world,

the person you were closest to in the world...

-Yes. -Passed away.

And you were not allowed to say good-bye

or to grieve her at a funeral.

What do you want to say about that

and for people who are going through that

throughout the world?

I want people to understand that first and foremost,

all of us must leave this world at some point, at some time.

We're never ready for that person that we love to leave.

And I definitely wasn't ready for my mother to leave.

I didn't get a chance to say good-bye or go to the funeral,

but what I did, I realized something.

It was the memory that got me through it.

It is the memory that get me through every day.

My mother and I had made memories

that would last a lifetime,

and I didn't need a book to put pictures in to say,

"Yes, I remember that day."

You know, I'd sit in prison, and I thought about my mom

going in the kitchen and cooking my favorite meal

and surprising me with it and saying,

"Come on in here and eat."

Didn't know that she had cooked

all the things that I loved.

Didn't realize that the conversation

that we had about this young lady

broke my heart at the age of 16 and when my mom looked at me

and she said, "What's wrong with you?"

and I said, "Nothing."

She said, "Boy, don't lie to me.

What's wrong with you?"

And I told her that this girl had broke up with me.

And she looked at me and she said,

"Boy, by the time you get 50,

you'll be on 50 women broke your heart,

so don't even worry about that."

But I looks and-- and sit on my couch now

and I think about all the things

and the memories that I had with my mom,

and you know what, that is enough to sustain me

and get me through every day of my life.

My mom, I realize, is in my heart,

and what I love the most

is that I took time out with my mom,

I talked to my mom every day,

there wasn't a day that went by

I didn't tell my mom how much I love her,

how much I appreciate the sacrifice

that she done for me.

I think this is a time that all of us,

whether we have children, husband, or a wife,

we have someone that we need to call

and say, "Hey, I love you.

I don't tell you that often enough,

but I want you to know."

And I think this is a time where families

should come together and just enjoy each other,

because within that circle, somebody's gonna leave one day.

[Oprah] Yeah, I think and if not coming together--

certainly we can't come together in the same spaces--

but we have this ability to Facetime...

-Yes. -[Oprah] And to gather.

-Absolutely. -[Oprah] Yeah.

Through technology.

All right, Mr. Hinton, well, you know what,

we all can't wait to get out

and see that the sun does shine.

-[Hinton] Does shine. -Okay.

Do you have a copy of your book there?

I don't have the book here, but...

-[Hinton] Yes, ma'am. -I really want people to--

I know we're not here to sell books,

but if you get a chance, everybody,

this is a beautiful book.

You can download it right now.

Just go to Apple Books.

Just hit Apple Books, and you can have it

in less than a minute.

By the time I say good-bye,

you can have that book.

It's a great book of inspiration

to read right now.

Thank you, Mr. Hinton.

[Hinton] Just enjoy what you have.

Don't think about what you don't have.

[Oprah] I think you're absolutely right.

I think this is a moment

to think seriously about gratitude.

If you focus on what you have, you will feel

the abundance of gratefulness in your heart.

If you focus on what you don't have,

it will just continue to make you upset.

-And also... -Yes.

Make you feel like you don't have enough.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

You're exactly right.

-Great talking to you. -Great talking to you.

Let me know if you get that soup right, okay?

All right, I might need a recipe,

'cause this ain't working too good.

[both laugh]

Take care of yourself.

Yeah, you need some leeks.

You need potatoes and leeks, okay?

Okay, I'll try.

Okay, bye.

All right, bye-bye.