Original subtitles

Hi, everybody.

In times of trouble in the past,

whenever I was in some kind of difficulty or crisis,

there was always one person that I relied on, um--

in addition to Maya Angelou,

who's no longer here--

is my friend Reverend Wintley Phipps.

He has been a great spiritual adviser and teacher for me

over the years,

actually is the person who told me,

long before I had a talk show in Chicago,

that I would have a platform

to speak to millions of people in the world.

This is when I was a young reporter in Baltimore

and didn't even know what he was talking about.

So he's someone who I've relied on over the years,

and I thought at this particular moment

he could have not just words of wisdom for

and comfort for me but for all of us.

So we're joined today

by my friend and pastor Wintley Phipps.

[Oprah] Hello, good to see you on FaceTime.

Oh, great to see you too.

[Oprah] As I was sharing with the world,

you've been one of my greatest spiritual teachers,

and you're one of the people

that I've gone to over the years.

I still don't know how you knew

when I was just a young reporter in Baltimore

and met you backstage, and you came to me and said,

"God has impressed me to tell you..."

-Do you remember that moment? -[Pastor Phipps] Yes, yes.

That you'd be speaking to millions of people.

And I've often told you that when God showed me

you'd be speaking to millions of people,

I didn't think it was gonna be every day.

[both chuckling]

And at the time, I was just a local talk show host,

so I was like, "Who, me?

How am I gonna speak to millions of people?"

So I thank you for that prophecy in my life.

And as I just shared, um,

you have been there for me in small crises and large ones.

-Like, uh, 9/11. -Yes.

And, um, you're a person who prays me up every day.

I get these emails all the time that I'm praying--

-That you're praying for me. -[Pastor Phipps] That's true.

So how are you doing at this moment?

How are you and your family, Linda, doing?

Oh, doing fine, just like you.

We're hunkered down. We've got everything--

[Oprah] In Florida, in Florida?

In Florida, yeah, where we live,

in a little town called Vero Beach, Florida.

And, uh, everything is still and quiet.

You're one of the first people

that I'm talking to about this.

We spoke to Idris and his wife,

but I thought you would be able to bring some perspective

to this--to this moment.

What do you think this is,

aside from it's a virus-- we know that.

But...to have our lives

so dramatically altered, so swiftly,

I know, and I know you know

that there's something deeper, uh...

that we're supposed to be getting

or supposed to be seeing

or--or to come to know.

Sure.

Well, we all have crises

in our personal lives,

and they come to teach us something.

Mm-hmm. I always ask that

every time something shows up-- what are you here to teach me?

-Exactly. -So I'm asking that big-time

for COVID-19.

That's right.

So what is this teaching our nation?

What is this teaching our world?

First of all, uh,

I think it's teaching us about

the really destructive power of fear.

Uh, fear is

one of the most destructive negative forces

in the world.

And particularly, it is most destructive

of the most precious thing we have in this world,

and that is relationships

or a relationship.

Uh...when fear

takes over,

whether it be in your personal life,

whether it be in your home, in your marriage,

or whether it be in the nation,

it--it begins to erode our relationships.

And so we cannot allow fear to reign.

We cannot allow fear to get the best of us.

We're going to have to seek a higher peace

that will conquer fear.

Well, I remember this moment so vividly--

November, 2018.

My mother was dying.

-Mm. - And...

I called you to sing

"Precious Lord" to her.

-Yes. -And you prayed for my family,

and in that moment-- I will never forget--

you said, "I pray for your family:

no fear, just peace."

Only peace.

-Only peace. -Yeah.

So how are we gonna have just peace in this moment

when everything is disrupted?

I think there is a kind of

inner personal grieving that's going on

that maybe many people

haven't been able to articulate it as grief.

But there is a sadness and a grieving

and a "It shouldn't be this way,"

and "Why is this happening to me, to us,

to our families, to our country?"

And how do you get through that with peace?

-Yes. -It's the opposite of peace!

[chuckles] Well,

the first thing that comes to my mind is,

I really do believe that nothing can happen to us

that we can't handle.

There is no trial, no difficulty

that is too much for us to bear.

We can handle this, and we will get through this.

And so that confidence

should help to give us peace

that we're going to get through this.

-Yeah. -And--and for me,

uh, learning to appreciate

what I call the presence of God

is my source of greatest peace.

And what do I mean by that?

I-I tell people, you know, when you bow your head

and close your eyes

and you sense the atmosphere change around you,

there's no greater peace than that.

You can't get-- it is priceless peace, you know?

-Yeah. -I don't want to take something

from a commercial, but literally,

this kind of peace

that passeth all human explanation...

-Yeah. -Is--is from outside.

It's from-- when I say from outside,

I mean it's God-given and God puts it within us.

-Yeah. -That's what I firmly believe.

So I think that this is a time

where people of faith get their faith really tested,

'cause it's, as you know, really easy to have it

-in the Sunday service... -[Pastor Phipps] Yes.

And really easy to have it when things are going well.

So how do we maintain, in this moment,

those of us who are people of faith and those who are not?

Right. Well, can you imagine--

Who could have imagined

that we would live through a time

when literally every single church, mosque, synagogue

in America is shut down?

It is completely shut down.

And, uh, it-- it just reminds you

that your faith has to come

from something else than a building.

Your faith and your peace

has to come from something else

than a great organ or great music.

It needs to come from somewhere else.

And, uh, and that is, to me,

one of the great lessons

that we're gonna have to learn through this,

and that is, we cannot be dependent on

a preacher or a teacher.

We cannot be dependent on

great music and great organs

and great choirs

to have a spiritual peace.

We've got to learn how to have that

in our own lives.

For sure we know that during these times

everything is being tested.

I think our own humanity is being tested.

But just within individual families,

-the stress level is so high. -Yes.

People say they wanna spend time with their families,

but they didn't want all this time.

-Right. -And so everything

is at a higher pitch.

Do you think that...

we can come out of this

better than we were?

And how do we do that?

Well, the first thing I'll say

is that, yes, we can come out of this better.

But we're going to have to allow those tests

to bring out the best in us.

You know, trials and tests--

either you get better or you get bitter.

Either you get worse or you get better.

And, uh...

I think it's an amazing, beautiful thing

that we can grow our characters through this.

We can focus not so much on ourselves

-but on those who are in need. -Mm-hmm.

And we can reach out, we can use the technologies

to just connect with people.

But I think, Oprah,

one of the things that I wanna make the point

that I am so struck by the fact

that with all our military might,

with all our technology,

with all our wealth,

that we...are still laid low.

We are set back on our heels

by something that we, number one, can't see,

something we don't understand.

We don't understand how this works enough to--

to, you know, to get rid of it.

And so it speaks to the fact

that we are human beings

who need to be humble.

We're just--we're too arrogant about our...

our wealth, our power,

I mean, our military.

Isn't it amazing--

none of that can stand up

to something as small as a virus

you can only see under a microscope.

And so it reminds us

that we need each other, first of all,

but we also need to be humble.

I don't think... [clears throat]

I think...

You know, I practice gratitude on a regular basis,

and I don't think anybody's gonna come out of this

without a sense of being grateful

-for the simplest things. - That's correct, yes.

Yeah, all of the things that we used to take for granted.

[Pastor Phipps] Exactly, exactly.

All the little things that we took for granted.

Uh...health.

We get up every day,

and we don't say, "Thank God for my health."

So just the simplest things,

we will see reason to give thanks for them

during this time.

Yeah, and I think that, you know,

I've been practicing-- literally, with a journal,

writing down what I was grateful for

for, you know, decades now--

-Yes. -And I think

in this moment in particular,

to be able to look at what you have,

in spite of all the things

that we feel have been taken away,

to be able to focus on what is working

instead of what is not working...

-Right. -Will help us

to get through it.

I think more than ever, now,

this practice of gratitude,

or at least sitting with your family

and talking about, "We still have food,

we're sheltered--

we're sheltered and safe together,

we're, you know, going to be able to get through this"--

being able to look at the things

that are meaningful in your life,

and you know, I think that there's some wonderful,

meaningful changes that can take place

in this disruption.

The first time families are forced to be together

to sit at the table to eat together.

-Right. -When this used to be a,

you know, a common thing in our country.

Yes, and some people are remembering how to cook.

[both laughing]

Yeah. I might be one of those people.

Yes, I am one of those people.

[Pastor Phipps] But we have to--

Just the little things like that

we have to be thankful for.

I noticed in our own household

that, you know, everybody's levels are higher,

and, um, I think,

you know, in a lot of homes

the stress is gonna take the form of violence.

The stress is gonna take the form

of people taking things out on other people.

-Yeah. -Can we speak to this moment

about how we need to

put a check on ourselves?

Yes, well, the most important thing for me as we grow

is that we grow in character.

What do I mean by that?

I mean we have to learn how to love.

We have to learn how to be kind.

We have to learn how to be patient.

We have to learn to be forbearing.

We have to learn... [laughs] Long-suffering with each other.

And we've got to learn how to believe

in the good that we see in one another.

And so, yes, in this time of stress at home,

take this as an opportunity to grow

in the most precious graces,

the beauty of character, the beauty of love.

You know my definition of love.

Love is when you choose to be at your best

when the other person is not at their best.

Boy, will we ever have an opportunity to do that

in this day and time and during this crisis.

Can we be at our best

when others are not at their best?

Well, yes, 'cause it's easy to love everybody

when things are going well.

-Yes. -This is the real test.

I just wanna remind everybody.

The test is--of character is to do exactly what you said.

[Oprah] To be able to step in this moment

when things are-- where nothing's optimal.

-Where nothing's optimal. -Right.

You know, when my mother was passing,

you prayed for our family.

-[Pastor Phipps] Yes. -In this crisis,

critical moment, I'd ask you to pray for our nation.

What would that prayer be?

Well, I would pray for

four or five things.

The first is for protection.

We need to ask God for protection

against things that we can't see.

We have an economy that is on the ropes.

A lot of people are going to be hurt by it.

You know, I'm looking at our organization.

We don't know what the future's--

There are a lot of people, lot of organizations--

Yes, you run the Dream Academy.

-Yes. -For children whose parents

-have been incarcerated. -Right, and so--

Everybody's gonna take a hit. Everybody's gonna take a hit.

Yes, and we're gonna have to go

to a virtual kind of delivery of services.

So, uh, the first thing I would pray for is protection.

The second thing I would pray for is provision,

provision meaning that we will have provided to us

through miraculous ways

what we need.

Uh, the other thing I pray for

is this beautiful presence of God

that is a spirit that you can feel

that surrounds us,

that we can sense angels with us.

Then the other thing I would pray for

is the power, the emotional strength,

to deal with this crisis.

And then, finally,

the most important thing

that I can actually pray that this world will have now

is peace, peace on a lot of different levels.

But people will have personal peace,

embrace peace,

and be able to share that peace with others.

Well, you're Wintley Phipps.

You have to sing.

[Pastor Phipps] [laughing] Oh, sure, sure.

[Oprah] Just as you did for my family...

-Sure. -In an hour of crisis,

I think, um,

all of us are looking for some mercy

and hoping for some grace.

-[Pastor Phipps] Yes. -I know you have

done this song "Amazing Grace"

probably countless times around the world.

Never get tired of it.

[Oprah] Oh, that's so good to hear,

because when I told my team

that I was gonna ask you to do it, they said,

"Oh, I know he's tired of doing that song."

But I have to tell you, um,

"Amazing Grace" is my life's theme song.

-Wow. -[Oprah] It's my anthem

for my own life, it's my mantra.

-Yes. -And I would have to say

that of all the ways I've experienced it--

flutes and harps and choirs

and country versions

and all the versions I've ever heard--

yours is the best version I've ever heard.

[Pastor Phipps] Oh, you're so kind, so kind.

Well, I'll be more than happy to share it with you.

[music begins] ♪ Ah, ah ♪

♪ Amazing grace ♪

♪ How sweet the sound ♪

♪ That saved ♪

♪ A wretch ♪

♪ Like me ♪

♪ Yes ♪

♪ I once ♪

♪ Was lost ♪

♪ But now ♪

♪ I'm found ♪

♪ Was blind ♪

♪ But now ♪

♪ I see ♪

♪ Through many ♪

♪ Dangers ♪

♪ Toils and snares ♪

♪ I have ♪

♪ Already ♪

♪ Come ♪

-♪ Twas grace ♪ -[Oprah mouthing lyrics]

♪ That brought me ♪

♪ Safe thus far ♪

♪ And grace ♪

♪ Will lead ♪

♪ Me home ♪

-♪ And when we've ♪ -[Oprah mouthing lyrics]

♪ Been there ♪

♪ Ten thousand ♪

♪ Years ♪

♪ Bright shining ♪

♪ As ♪

♪ The sun ♪

♪ We've no ♪

♪ Less days ♪

♪ To sing God's praise ♪

♪ Than when ♪

♪ We'd first ♪

♪ Begun ♪

♪ Hallelujah ♪

♪ Halle-lujah ♪

♪ Amen ♪

[Oprah] Ah, that's wonderful.

So, thank you, Pastor Wintley.

I wanna say you still got it. You still got it.

-[laughing] -You still got it.

You can sing.

Aw, you're kind.

Thank you so much for sharing that with us,

and thank you for offering us grace for ourselves

and grace for our nation

and grace for the world.

Absolutely, and it's my joy.

And I just wanted you to know

that for those who may need that grace in music,

that song they just heard,

they can go to my website, wintleyphipps.com,

and they can download it at no cost,

and they can use that song as a piece of hope

and encouragement, wherever they may be.

Ah, that's wonderful.

Thank you. Love to you...

-Thank you. -Linda, and the family.

God bless you too. Take care.