Original subtitles

♪soft tense guitar♪

[snoring]

♪♪♪

[Katherine] This was a hard month for me with just, like,

food and having, like, a healthy relationship

-with myself. -Mm.

And it's just been this, like, constant...

inner dialogue with myself, like,

for as long as I can remember.

Like, I don't remember life without...

negative thoughts about myself.

Mm-hm.

And then if I do eat something, like,

-the guilt and the... -[Orna] Mm.

Over-compensating, like, the other direction,

or telling myself, like, "No, you have to workout, like,

twice a day every day for the next 10 days to, like,

undo..."

Mm-hm.

-But I hate it! -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Like, I hate it. [laughs]

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -I want it to go.

-I wish that it would go. -Any-- any thoughts?

There's something there in our relationship in general,

where she has these internal dialogues...

[Orna] Yeah.

And she's going through all of this stuff,

and I don't know that it's happening.

I think that's true probably for both of you, right?

[Nick] Yeah.

Well, 'cause there's this whole other...

part that I don't talk about with anyone.

[Nick] What is it?

[Katherine] I mean, I've just been eating crap again!

Like, I've been...

falling back into old habits and, like,

it's embarrassing, and I feel ashamed.

I think, like, I used to hide it when I was a kid because I would

get in trouble.

Mm-hm.

It's like I have these, like, two selves,

and my current self hates that, like,

younger self, and so I, like, am just running from it and, like,

doing whatever I can do to, like,

not be her.

[Nick] Mm-hm.

Are-- are you relating?

I'm completely agreeing that that's exactly what's going on

with her, and I'm relating.

[Orna] Yeah.

I think that's what's going on with me too.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

What-- what's-- like, who were you...

at those kind of teen years?

Gross, awkward...

uncomfortable...

fat...

ugly.

Mm-hm.

You know, it's just this, like, place of, like,

constantly longing for, like,

what I saw other people, like, getting to experience,

and I never cou-- had that because...

I attribute it solely to, like, the way that I looked,

and that's what people would say.

And there was a summer at camp;

I was maybe 11.

It was, like, extreme bullying -- like-- like,

physical violence, like, I had a girl, like,

pull my hair out, I had someone push me down a rocky, like...

hill, and I, like, sprained my-- [chuckles]

sprained my ankle, and, um...

[Orna sighs]

[Katherine] I had no friends.

And I was just left to, like,

the torture of these girls,

and they would make me run around the tent naked...

and they would [voice cracking] throw things at me...

[inhales sharply]

and, like, say things about my body.

And after I sprained my ankle, they made me do this,

like, "workout routine" in front of them naked.

-[sniffles] -[softly] Oh my God.

And then I woke up in the middle of the night and

[sniffles] one of the girls was...

standing over me with a pair of scissors [sniffles]

and she grabbed my hair and she [whispering] cut my hair off.

-[inhales sharply] -[softly] Wow!

[Katherine] And I was just like, "Why?"

Like, "Why does everyone hate me?"

And they would tell me, "Because you're ugly!"

[sniffles]

And I just felt so, like...

alone and just scared. [sniffles]

Like, looking back on it, I was like,

-"This is insane!" -Yeah.

Like, my mom had no idea.

She had no idea.

They didn't even call my mom and tell her...

what was going on!

They didn't even tell me parents.

So...

I was just traumatized.

-[Orna] Absolutely! -Like...

This is just unbelievable!

This is unconscionable!

[Katherine] It was horrible.

-[inhales deeply] -Mm.

[sighs]

And that went on until I stopped eating;

so I stopped eating in eighth grade --

like, stopped eating -- and I lost 40 pounds,

and then people liked me.

[sniffles]

And that began, like, the lifelong struggle.

-Mm. -[Katherine sniffles]

And, like, I just don't know what would make 35 girls hate

one girl so much.

Usually, that's an expression of something that's going on...

in the group,

and then the group kind of chooses a scapegoat...

-Right. -To kind of...

-unleash it onto. -[Katherine sighs heavily]

But it's obviously not about you.

[Katherine] Right.

And I know, like, in my rational mind,

like, I go there, but...

it's just hard with, like--

But is the rational part of your mind connecting to that kid

in you?

No, not at all.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -[Katherine sniffles]

Might be good to have a dialogue there.

[Katherine] Yeah.

It's just hard 'cause I'm, like, terrified that...

Luna's gonna...

[voice cracking] go through what I went through.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

I just, like, look at her and I see myself.

[sniffles]

And it's terrifying.

[sniffles]

I feel like a lot of what she goes through is, like,

not wanting to be that past self,

and I feel like...

-she's not, right? -[Orna] Mm-hm.

And, like, trying, and-- but I get--

But I am, too, at the same time! Like...

[Nick] But you are, too, and it's really a part of you,

-and it's-- it's so real and-- -What is your--

your relationship to that kid?

So much wanna, like, defend that kid and--

and, um...

angry at these girls...

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -And...

just feel like, yeah, love for that kid.

I-- I-- 'cause I know who Katherine is.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Katherine--

Katherine is and was a, like, loving,

sweet person, and somehow...

they didn't see that, and they, like, totally...

crushed that kid!

[Orna] Mm-hm.

[Nick] And it's, like, not fair.

Mm.

I do believe that if Nick were there,

like, he would have been my friend.

I do.

I don't know if he would've been attracted to me,

but...

I don't know, I've always thought--

-[chuckles] -I've-- I-- the funny thing--

At age 11?

[all laugh]

I even, like, put us together.

Like, there's a photograph of--

[laughs]

him around that age and me, and I was like...

-[Orna] Mm. -"Would this really have..."

Like, he was so cute.

[laughs]

[softly] But so were you!

But you were, like, thin. [laughs]

-[laughs] -[Nick] Doesn't matter.

[all laugh]

You're just-- you're just gonna submit to the cultural induction

-whole-heartedly; that's it? -[both laugh]

-[whispering] Just let me! -[laughs]

♪upbeat synth music♪

There's something very similar about the way they experienced

their childhood as containing these shadows of, like,

traumatic shameful experiences...

Uh-huh!

[Orna VO] And being so hesitant about bringing their full self

in.

And a lot of their coming together as a couple is about

saying,

"I accept your shadow.

I love you for who you are.

I wanna take it all."

[Virginia VO] Yeah.

♪♪♪

[ball squeaks]

[dog barks]

[ball squeaks]

-[dog barks] -[Rod] Woo!

[dog growls]

[ball squeaks]

[chuckles]

♪♪♪

We had another blow-out argument about the dog.

[Orna VO] I wanna hear it!

-At lunch time I... -It's silly.

Take her out at two o'clock...

-[Orna] Yeah. -Thereabouts,

and if she doesn't go to the bathroom,

she doesn't go to the bathroom; I can't make my dog go to the

-bathroom, as you know. -Yes, you--

[Rod, overlapping] You have Nico.

Yeah, but you have to keep walking until she goes!

Alison came back and she was really upset with me the dog

didn't go to the bathroom.

-It's just lazy. -[Rod] It is not lazy.

-It is lazy! -[Rod] That is not lazy.

-You know she doesn't always go! -[Alison] Rod, Rod!

[Orna] So what...

[clears throat]

This is, like, a good example.

So the repeating over and over, each of you...

Mm-hm.

The same position...

-So-- -[Orna] Is not productive.

-Nope. -[Rod] No, that's correct.

Not at all! Not at all.

So what needs to happen beyond...

you saying, "I'm upset that she didn't go,

you should've stayed longer," and you saying,

-"I did what I could..." -[Rod] Yeah.

"I'm not responsible for her bladder?"

[Rod] Mm-hm.

What else could be said?

[Rod] Um...

I mean, it's kind of ridiculous, talking about taking the dog

out and "Did it do number one or number two?"

On the flip side, we've got a dear friend who's...

[Alison] Okay, okay.

Terminally ill, and that's serious life,

and we're arguing about friggin' dog shit?

I mean, it's kind of stupid when you think about it.

Mm-hm.

Do you wanna say something about this friend,

and how you're both feeling about it?

Yeah, I rarely-- [chuckling] I rarely tear up.

I've definitely got some right now, so that's...

pretty rare for me to do that.

She's not gonna be here...

long.

[sniffles]

It just...

puts everything in perspective.

Mm-hm.

And how quick life could be right in front of you,

and how...

how fast life can be taken away.

Mm-hm.

I don't have many close friends,

and in recent years, I've lost three close friends.

-[exhales sharply] -And every so often,

they kind of [voice breaking] come up on me.

[chuckling] My God.

[sighs]

It's okay; you could feel it!

It would be so good for you to cry.

[chuckles]

Hoo!

[softly] It's okay!

It's okay!

-It's okay. -[Rod chuckles]

It's okay to feel, honey.

You have so much inside.

You could let it out!

He's trying to.

-Okay, I should shut up. -[Rod chuckles]

[sniffles]

Um...

so there's, you know-- there's a lot of...

-Loss. -[Rod] Yeah.

[sniffles]

Alison, where are you?

[Alison sighs]

It's just something that I deal with every day I wake up.

I think of my dad the minute I wake up.

Mm-hm.

[sniffles]

My dad in a hospital bed.

[sniffles]

[sniffles]

Are you both also saying that part of this intensive fighting

is a way to avoid some...

-[Alison] Intimacy? -Sad--

intimacy and sad feelings that you're each sitting with?

[Alison sniffles]

Let's talk about that.

[Rod] Mm-hm.

♪soft tender music♪

[rustling]

[zip]

[Boris] I've had a very...

funny day.

[Orna VO] So, I wanna go back to Boris and Jessica.

[Nuar VO] Mm-hm.

[Orna VO] So I saw them for several sessions that were...

increasingly difficult.

[Nuar VO] Yeah.

Like, the more I saw them,

the more they were unraveling.

And...

whatever I was doing with them was not,

in any way, helping them; it was kind of...

salt on wounds.

Mm.

And they said they were gonna take a break,

and then decided they're not doing it at all.

And...

they were always offered the option to come back,

talk about it, try again.

So that's what I'm gonna do with them...

-this week. -I see.

As a full session?

-[Orna] One session. -Okay.

What do you feel...

in thinking about meeting with them again?

-[Eyal] Mm. -Um...

[Ken] I'd be nervous.

[chuckles]

-Yeah. -[Orna] You'd be nervous.

-I would be, too. -[Ken] Sorry, I don't wanna--

-No, tell me. -[Ken] Yeah.

I'd be worried that she was still...

trapped and terrified.

Mm-hm.

But my guess is they've stayed together...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And they're gonna come back, and it's going to try to be the

same kind of session, although it's a last one,

'cause they haven't moved anywhere.

They haven't resolved anything.

[Orna] I wanna know where they're at

-and how they're doing... -Mm-hm.

To make sure they each feel like...

they got to own the story,

despite the fact that they left in the middle.

[Kali] Yeah.

I don't wanna pretend it's okay...

[Eyal] Mm-hm, yeah.

'Cause it's not okay.

I don't know what to say, but it just feels ominous.

[Kali] Mm-hm.

[Orna VO] So, how are you two?

I think we're...

pretty good.

-I would-- -I mean...

yeah!

I think we are good.

I think circumstances of our lives have not changed,

particularly.

-Hm! -[Boris] No.

[Jessica] But...

But I think we're...

I think we're more than good.

Yeah.

So how'd you do that?

Do you wanna answer?

[laughs]

Um...

I think what was happening around the last time

-that we saw you... -Mm-hm.

Was big shifts,

and a lot of...

fear...

for both of us about our situation,

and I think somehow, it felt like if I...

signed on

or co-signed

Boris' unhappiness,

that...

that would mean I'd have to give up what...

I had just gotten, which was...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

My time.

That if you acknowledged it, it would open the doors to...

having...

that taken away from you.

Yeah, we'd have to renegotiate everything all over again,

and I would...

Lose...

[chuckling] what you had longed for so long to-- to get.

[softly] Yeah.

[inhales deeply]

Right, and, you know, that was really hard for me,

'cause I felt like I was...

[clears throat]

I was in despair.

Um...

I-- I also had huge hopes pinned on this

new part of our lives and...

Mm-hm.

It was [chuckling] the very opposite of what I hoped for in

every way,

so I was in a bad place,

I was kinda, like, reaching for a little comfort,

having a hard time finding it,

that was...

making it worse.

It was just a dark time.

[inhales deeply]

Um...

and...

I think coming here temporarily

exacerbated all of that.

Yeah.

'Cause...

there was a lot of talking about it that happened here,

and it had a very long tail that pursued us for days after the

session...

-[Orna] Yeah. -And...

And-- and it was very-- you-- you talked about it very

differently...

[Boris] Mm-hm.

A few months ago.

-[Jessica] Mm. -[Boris] Yes.

So it just felt like we-- we can't actually--

we're not strong enough to withstand...

-[Orna] Yeah. -The initial blow

that this process delivers before it begins, potentially,

-to help. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

[tuts tongue]

I-- frankly, I did not really understand,

why is the talking not working?

Why-- why don't you feel understood?

Why don't you feel understood?

Like, you're saying things to each other here that sounded,

to me like, "Wait, this should be landing!"

[chuckles]

[Orna] One of you should feel heard,

understood.

Like, something should land, and it didn't.

[Jessica] Yeah.

I think, like, when we are not feeling...

connected, um,

the othering that happens...

-Mm-hm. -[Jessica] Is very intense.

And he was like,

"You're just another parent who doesn't understand."

Yeah, I alienize her.

Um, I have been doing this to Jessica since we met.

Mm-hm.

And I think it accumulates.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -And I think...

you very justifiably had gotten fairly sick of it.

-Mm-hm. -[Jessica] Yeah.

Like, it wasn't just that we...

stopped coming here.

Like, I asked you to leave.

-Yeah! -Yeah,

that's one of the things you said here last time you were

-here. -[Jessica] Yeah.

-Um... -And so what happened then?

So... [chuckles]

-Jessica-- -[chuckles]

Jessica asked me to leave, but, like,

I really kept dragging my feet on responding

to her request.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And what Jessica didn't know was that,

for about three months,

I had been planning, like,

a complicated weekend-long to-do

around her birthday in the city.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And I am terrible at keeping secrets,

but I had somehow, miraculously, through three months,

managed to keep this secret,

and [chuckling] I wasn't gonna give it up now...

[Orna laughs]

Just because I've been asked to move out!

[chuckling] You know what I'm s--

Just because my marriage is falling apart,

[chuckling] I'm not gonna give up the secret!

[all laugh]

-Uh-huh. -Um...

so, we got to have the weekend together,

and, um, a lot of fun things happened.

Like what?

Just everything worked out the way it's supposed to work out.

One of the funnest things that we did is we went to a club and

danced until all hours of the night.

Wow.

And, like, it was just so relaxed,

everybody was so friendly, the music was great,

the people were great.

It was just an awesome...

evening, and it just seemed to just, like,

create that little bit of extra room in Jessica...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

To hear where I was.

[Orna] Yeah.

And it's-- it was all that I needed.

Like, just that little bit of extra hearing

made me feel less alone,

and just made it easier to survive the days.

[Jessica] We'd never gone dancing before...

-Wow! -[Jessica] Ever together.

And something about you...

meeting me on the...

childlike-delight plane

made it much...

easier to accept

the layers on top of that --

unhappy Boris,

tortured Boris,

um,

scared Boris.

Like, all of those layers became

easier to invite in,

because I could connect to the core of it.

What did you see...

in the child Boris?

So, I did this really cool workshop this weekend --

like, to address trauma, you story-tell.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

So you put someone in the chair,

you put yourself in the chair, but you tell the trauma in

third-person.

Um, so instead of doing my own trauma for the sake of the

exercise, I decided to tell Boris' story instead.

[Orna] Wow.

[Jessica] And...

What did you tell?

Once upon a time,

there was a little boy named Boris,

who was born in the Soviet Union,

and despite the fact that...

he was born in the Soviet Union

and his parents and family were Jewish,

he lived like a little prince.

And his family decided that they would move to America,

and everything...

changed,

and he wasn't...

the little prince anymore; now, he was the little king.

And with kingship...

came responsibilities that the little prince didn't have,

because the little king had people looking to him

for answers and decisions.

But the longer he did it,

the more resentful he got...

and the more resentful he got, the harder it was to

keep playing the little king.

[inhales deeply]

And then, he met a blonde-haired woman...

[chuckles]

Who looked like...

freedom.

But very quickly,

they got married,

and they had kids,

and all of a sudden,

that freedom...

looked a lot like the responsibilities of kingship,

and he just saw...

that promise...

fade away...

into a long, gray tunnel of...

[voice wavering] the exact same responsibilities he'd been

hoping that he could be free of.

You just haven't had a time when you didn't have a title.

[chuckles]

How nice would it have been if you weren't a prince or a king

or a father or a husband or anything in particular,

but you could just be whatever the fuck you are [laughs]

without any of that?

[sniffles]

And...

It is amazing;

it is amazing to be understood...

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -In this way,

because, you know, I wish I had some carefree

[chuckling] child years.

Mm-hm.

But, my God, does it feel amazing to be understood in this

-way by your partner, right? -[Orna] Mm-hm.

And that...

helps you transcend that former...

that other feeling.

Yeah.

Um, and that's a pretty good trade-off.

Ohh.

And I intend to have a really rambunctious retirement once

they're off to college.

[all laugh]

[clears throat] But...

[Orna] Yeah.

[Boris] I-- sorry, go ahead.

I wanna ask you something, just for my own...

curiosity, having done some time with you.

Do you think there would've been another way to work here that

would've...

helped the two of you...

get to this place?

If there could've been some way to...

help us see...

the childlike core of each other...

Mm-hm.

[Jessica] As opposed to the hardened adult...

Mm-hm.

Personas and responses that had been calcified over time...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Both individually and in our coupledom,

then maybe there could have been...

connection.

I don't know what that would look like.

[sucks teeth]

You would've had to go dancing with us.

[laughs]

[Boris chuckles]

I would've loved that.

[all laugh]

♪energetic deep synth♪

Thank you.

Do you remember Boris and Jessica?

[Virginia VO] Yeah.

[Orna VO] Lo and behold,

they're...

better!

-Who knows for how long... -[Virginia VO] Yeah.

[Orna VO] But they're completely better...

[Virginia VO] Wow!

In ways that are shocking, and...

Yeah.

-[Orna] I have no idea why. -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Orna] Certainly nothing to do with me!

-[Virginia] All right! -Yeah.

[Virginia] So what happened?

Um...

♪♪♪