Original subtitles

♪ cool funky music ♪

[heavy breathing]

♪

[weights clanking]

♪

With Kyle and Mondo,

their presenting issue was whether to open

the relationship.

Mondo wasn't so sure.

Right.

So Mondo is first generation to a Mexican family,

and was a translator for his parents--

helped his parents navigate American culture.

[Virginia VO] Right.

[Orna VO] So I believe he was in the role of a parent always.

[Virginia VO] Yeah.

And at the same time, he's saying to Kyle,

"I don't wanna be your parent."

[Orna VO] Yes.

He's very accommodating, and I think he's getting tired of it.

[Virginia VO] Yes.

[muffled speech] We had an interesting conversation after

our first session about

how much stuff came out all at once.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Just wanted to put everything on the table so that we could

get to the core of the, um...

the work that you and I want to do.

I kept trying to think, like, "Where is he going with this?"

Like, "How does the identity of deafness relate to

the subject of the open relationship?"

- I'm, like, trying to link it-- - I see.

[Mondo] Like, "How does this link to this?"

And...

and you did this recently when we were talking about...

your...

- last hookup. - Mm-hm.

Bring me in; what happened there?

Well, I was home,

- I knew he was out with his friends... - [Kyle] Mm-hm.

It was like four o'clock in the morning.

Mm-hm.

So I just texted him and said,

"I'm gonna guess that you hooked up,

I'm gonna guess that you were with someone."

And he said, "Yes, I was."

And I said, "Okay.

What was it that made you want to have this experience?"

He said something like...

"I think it's the fact that he's deaf that made it...

likely to happen because there was a connection."

Mm-hm.

And then I looked back at the majority of the men that he has

had a relationship outside of our relationship,

- they've all been deaf. - Yeah.

[Mondo] So then I started to, like, link things.

I was like, "Is all of this about...

you being deaf,

needing to hook up with other deaf men

because you're filling up a cup...

that you're not getting at home?"

- In essence-- - Are you asking?

[Mondo] Yeah!

That's a-- I think that's a question.

I...ask myself...

occasion-- not occasionally, once in a blue moon,

if he was deaf, what would this relationship look like?

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - [Kyle] I have no idea.

But, anyway, this goes back to "Who am I as a person?"

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And these hookups are coming from a place of...

- feeling frustrated... - Mm-hm.

Because growing up, I never really experienced liberation or

freedom or whatnot, so I'm just gonna try it.

I don't-- I don't know.

Is Kyle answering your question?

I think he's only making me want to ask more.

- [Orna] Okay. - Yeah.

You know, is that why I'm feeling triggers of inadequacy

when you choose a deaf person to hook up with?

That's what came to you?

The inadequacy was completely, like,

off; the light was off.

It was just like, "Ernh ernh!"

- Right? - Yeah.

[Mondo] Which also fuels the anger.

Mm-hm.

And then all of a sudden, I'm like,

"Well, we've just had a nice, healthy...

- blowout." - [Orna] Mm-hm.

Do you feel...

burdened, like, sometimes that you may not really

understand me?

[Mondo] I don't feel a burden.

I love you so much that...

[voice wavering] whatever happens...

[sniffles]

I will do it.

♪ curious synth music ♪

[child crying]

Hey, I will make coffee!

♪

[sing-song] Thank you.

[whispering] Okay.

[Boris] I'm gonna take your seat today.

[Jessica] Oh, is that my seat?

Just to change things up.

[Jessica] Cool.

Do you recreate the sides of the bed here?

- That we sleep on. - Oh!

This is-- if we're laying in the bed,

- this is my side. - Yeah.

Yes.

Okay, we'll switch it up again next time.

[both laugh]

[Jessica] When we first met in 2015,

I was singing in a little jazz group.

Not like a band, but, like, I would sing,

and there were some gentlemen [chuckling] who would play

instruments in this Russian restaurant.

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - And...

you had seen me before, I had not noticed you before,

- um, but-- - 'Cause I was in the kitchen.

[Jessica] [chuckling] 'Cause you were in the kitchen.

[Boris] [chuckling] I would stare at her through the rhombus

window.

There was a little, tiny rhombus window--

I remember that!

Yeah, so then, we had very pleasant conversation,

but at the end of that conversation,

Boris noticed that I was wearing a-- [higher pitch] very thin--

wedding band.

Um, and you wrote me an email about it

and how, like, "Too bad."

[chuckles]

I was-- I was attracted to you, and I enjoyed our conversations.

[chuckling] I would have loved to have more to go on,

but you kept standing me up!

I was married!

No, I--

I was married, and it made sense that I didn't wanna go out

with a man...

while I was married.

Right?

There-- there's no issue here whatsoever.

This is just, like, something we playfully spar about.

Mm-hm.

[Boris] But, like, there's no issue here.

I totally get what was happening.

It's all good.

Yeah, and-- and that was when we fell in love,

- and... - [Jessica] Yeah.

[Boris] Then she wrote a-- a parting letter to her husband.

- I saw him only once ever again. - And then she moved in with me.

- Oh! - [Jessica] Yeah.

Mm-hm!

I mean, it's-- it's a lovely romantic story,

though with dark elements, because...

- Can I-- can I talk? - Go, go.

Um, Jessica was incredibly disoriented when she came out of

this relationship.

What-- what kind of disoriented?

She was just-- just...

profoundly misaligned with her circumstances and just looking

for something to, uh, hold onto.

And some of the issues that we encounter right at the beginning

there, they're the issues that are with us to this day,

and they're the issues why we're in this room.

Tell me.

I'm somebody who tries to anticipate problems.

Mm-hm.

And because I'm the one who anticipates the problems,

I end up just doing everything.

Mm-hm.

And I think the task list became so long once the kids

arrived...

that I gradually developed just an enormous amount of rage...

Mm-hm.

[Boris] At how much I had to do.

Jessica, I think, has-- if you're okay with me speaking

about what I think the issue has been for you--

[chuckling] You look so angry.

Mm-hm.

You're feeling angry?

[chuckles]

[Orna] Well, maybe we should slow down.

Finish your thought.

[Orna] Uh, no, hold on.

Just say what has angered you.

Boris' narrative of my competence and ability at

different times in my life is very unfair.

Describe.

Boris, I did all those things in my life

before I met you,

and there are reasons why you ended up doing

a lot of the things that you ended up doing.

Tell.

Boris does not like me to go grocery shopping because I shop

- very differently than he does. - Mm-hm.

[Jessica] "It's not efficient, it's not economical."

Mm-hm.

We used to just shorthand it by saying "the tomatoes,"

'cause I once went and I bought some tomatoes that were very

expensive, and...

this was proof that I could not do it to his standards,

and therefore, he must always do it.

[Orna] Are there other areas like that?

[sighs]

[quietly] I hate the way that this makes me sound.

How would you characterize grocery shopping between us?

Who gives a fuck about the grocery shopping?

It's such a small part of the overall issue.

Yes, we can talk about why I would go the extra block to buy

tomatoes that are as good; I don't wanna buy shitty tomatoes,

I wanna buy nice tomatoes.

But if you can get them for a dollar less per pound a block

- away, I would go that block. - Mm-hm.

[Boris] That is the person I am,

that is the place that I come from.

I-- I want tools to figure out how to be cool with what she

decides to do about the tomatoes and the one million things the

tomatoes are a metaphor for.

Can you guys tell me about a few more things,

just so I'll get a sense of it?

Boris finds me to be forgetful, unreliable,

um...

flighty, unable to concentrate,

generally not trustworthy--

not in like a "I'm a bad person,"

but "I can't trust that if I ask Jessica to do something..."

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - "That it will get done."

[Orna] Yeah.

"Therefore, I must do all things by myself."

Do you see any of that in you?

Or is that...?

I can say that that has never been my role

in any previous relationship.

Mm-hm.

But there's something about this relationship where I've

been shifted into a role that is a mystery to me.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

I don't know why I'm this person--

in his mind, and in this relationship.

Mm-hm.

♪ chill R&B music ♪

♪ There's a chip on your shoulder ♪

♪ And you think you get treated bad ♪

♪ Ain't nobody wronged ya ♪

♪ All the wrong is inside your head ♪

♪ Well, I have had enough ♪

♪ I won't let you steal all the fun...♪

[indistinct bickering]

♪ I'll be the bigger man ♪

♪ Let's forget it, let bygones be bygones ♪

[Orna VO] How are you two?

[Alison VO] How are we?

Today, we seemed okay.

Yesterday, we weren't okay.

Mm-hm.

- Yesterday wasn't good. - Yesterday was a shitshow.

It was. Today wasn't, but yesterday was.

You were really bananas.

I was extremely stressed out.

And I took myself out of the situation.

I've never done that before.

- Remove yourself? - [Alison] Nope!

It's like you shit and walked away.

I did shit, but you also were not with me the entire day

yesterday, which was so difficult.

So, Rod, describe it from your perspective.

I had finished work, I was sitting and watching the news,

and within 30 seconds, you came in.

I mean, it was screaming, like this close.

[Orna] Screaming saying...?

"Did you take the dog out?!" You know...

"Did you contact the office?!"

I had to do something.

And then you did walk away, but the feeling-- the kind of upset

you brought within three seconds-- didn't go away for me.

I'm glad you took yourself out of the picture...

But it didn't go away f...?

[Rod] For me, it didn't go away.

You'll scream at me if the dog doesn't go to bathroom.

- I can't-- - Because you need to walk her!

I'll walk her around the block 15 times;

- sometimes, she doesn't go. - So, okay--

[Alison] Okay, okay.

This is so-- it's silly, but it's the truth.

- S-- - You get pissed with me if the dog doesn't go

- to the bathroom. - People! Stop!

- Stop. - [Rod] Sorry.

So, you sound angry.

No, I was angry last night--

[Orna] But why are you angry right now?

I'm not.

Why do you sound angry?

[sighs]

Because I'm pissed off.

Sorry. I am.

So you are angry?

I'm mad that I acted that way last night.

- [Orna] You're mad at yourself? - Correct.

Why are you then speaking angrily to Rod?

Because I project everything on him.

Okay, let's try to...

work on that.

First of all, why don't you say something to Rod about that

right now.

Okay.

I'm sorry for my behavior last night.

But I am so frustrated, and I need for you to start

communicating something!

Because I think I feel very overwhelmed with a lot,

and then when I say to you something--

even made a funny joke--

I mean, I did say-- make a funny joke with you today.

I said, "So when are we gonna have sex?"

And what did you say?

I said, "Soon." Something like that.

- And walked away! - [Orna] Mm-hm.

Well, it was the middle of my work day!

[chuckling] I was in between meetings!

I don't know, somebody else would've been like,

"Right now!"

I don't know!

I'm sorry!

So what-- what would you--

First of all, you apologized-- great.

- Do you accept the apology? - Yeah, I do.

Just don't do it again.

Ever in your whole life.

As long as I live?

[Rod] [chuckling] As long as you live.

So let's-- let's kind of...

rewind, like, a few minutes before you...

got in Rod's face.

Mm-hm.

And let's imagine how you could interact with Rod

in a way that would...

give you something of what you need.

How could you ask for--

I just would love him to ask me--

- What could you do... - [Alison] Yes.

To get what you need?

I could've easily walked over to him and given him a hug or a

kiss and said, "Hi."

Sounds like a good start.

Do you ever just come and give me a hug?

No, I'm not talking about what he's gonna do.

I'm-- I'm trying to give you options for what you can do.

[Alison] Mm-hm.

[sighs]

Okay, did you say that you do not or do wanna talk about sex?

Oh!

[both laugh]

Oh, I'm not opposed to anything at this point.

Okay.

And you?

It's part of the, you know, conversation,

so it's silly to avoid it.

So, how are the two of you doing?

- Are you-- - [Rod] We're not intimate.

Not intimate at all?

- Not for a while. - [Alison] [chuckling] Oh my God.

[Rod] [chuckling] Not for a while.

Oh my God, I'm having a har-- now I'm having-- yeah.

[Orna] What?

- What's this? - Yeah, no, I mean,

I'm just going "Oh my God."

- Yeah! - [Orna] "Oh my God" what?

"Oh my God, we're not!"

[Orna] Okay.

We're not!

Okay...

Does one of you want more than the other?

Me! All the time.

[Orna] Okay.

All right, so you're holding the flame.

And you?

Do you wanna get sexually involved with each other again?

- [higher pitch] Yeah. - [Orna] Yeah.

Mm-hm.

What would be the best way for that to happen?

F-- for me, it's, um...

calmness and kindness, I mean, are two words that come to mind.

When you're screaming and yelling and screaming at

each other, there's no desire to want to be physical.

Mm-hm.

Maybe I-- I bruise easier,

- you know, when it comes to verbal-- - [chuckles]

Verbal attack.

I-- I'm gonna remember things, and maybe you don't.

If I scream at you, maybe you don't,

I don't know, but...

- I do feel-- - But you do.

You know about yourself...

[Rod] Yeah, I just feel like I do.

And with that kind of bruising effect,

I don't really wanna be intimate.

Mm-hm.

And last night-- again, back to last night--

I didn't trigger you, something else triggered you before you

- were in the house-- - But you-- but-- but you...

This is so sad to say, but, like,

you've become my dumping ground.

And then you wonder why I'm not intimate.

[Alison] But-- but-- but-- no, no, no!

But-- see, but this is what you do,

and this is what makes me upset.

I'm turned off when you're like that,

you're turned off when I'm big and explosive.

I-- I get that.

But there is two dynamics here that are not working.

Or a certain kind of thing that's working too well,

which is that you withdraw, you approach,

you punish by withdrawing, you approach with rage.

It's too fixed; it works too well.

Correct.

- We're stuck. - [Orna] Mm-hm.

We're stuck in a pattern that is so unhealthy--

- for both of us! - [Orna] Mm-hm.

It's almost like a substitute;

like you're substituting...

the nutrients of connection, passion, pleasure

with bickering.

- Correct. - Mm-hm.

So can I task each of you...

you, Alison, with, like, reducing or trying to

eliminate the bruising...

Mm-hm.

And you with...

increasing intimacy, both physical and verbal-emotional?

Mm-hm.

I think that would do wonders.

[Rod] 'Kay.

If you each take that on.

[Rod] 'Kay.

♪ soft curious music ♪

[sighs]

[Orna VO] Rod and Alison.

They are such a classic approach-avoid.

[Virginia VO] Yeah.

[Orna VO] One retreats, the other one goes after.

[Virginia VO] Right.

♪

[Orna VO] On the other hand, with Nick and Katherine,

they're the kind of rare couple where it's not

approach-avoidance,

but it's avoidance-avoidance.

[Virginia VO] Uh-huh, I see.

They each, like, wait for the other,

and in their mind, they think they're reaching out to the

- other, but they're not. - Mm-hm.

But they did this ayahuasca thing together.

[Orna VO] Right.

[Virginia VO] So that's how much they want to come out of

their comfortable shells.

[Orna VO] Yeah, but I'm torn on that,

because Nick seems to me quite hidden.

[Virginia VO] Yeah, I think they both are.

[Orna VO] I think there's something very traumatic in his

background,

and it's gonna take me time to understand

- what's going on between them. - [Virginia VO] Right.

[indistinct chatter]

- [Orna] Hello! - Hi! - Hello, Orna!

- How are you? - Hi!

[Katherine] We had our daughter's birthday party on

Saturday so...

it was a lot.

Wait, how old is she?

[Katherine] She's turning six...

- Right. - [Katherine] On Thursday, yeah.

I think the kids had fun; it was a costume party.

Um...

It definitely caused a little-- [chuckles]

a little rift between us, I think,

- [chuckling] unfortunately. - What-- what happened?

[Nick] I mean, I think that it was, like,

a little overpriced.

I think that it probably cost three grand or something

- like that all-in. - Yeah.

Mm-hm.

[Nick] With the magician and the cotton candy and the food

- for everybody. - Mm-hm.

But I think that it was one of those situations where, like...

she was planning a lot of it and feels alone...

and thinks I don't care, and I feel like she's just...

Keeping you out.

- She wants me to collaborate. - [Orna] She does.

- But doesn't really-- - I want you show that you--

I want you to come to me for once, and be like,

"What are we doing for Luna's birth--"

Well, you both have this issue of, like,

"I want the other one to come to me."

[Katherine] Yeah.

But even, like, after the party, Nick laid on the couch and

watched a movie, and I cleaned up everything.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

After this huge party, and he just, like,

watched me and didn't help me.

- And I got really mad. - [Orna] Mm-hm.

And that was, like, the fight.

We spent three grand, and now it's on me to figure out

how we're gonna pay for all of that.

[Katherine] The party was covered with cash, so it's a different--

Sorry, "the party was covered in cash?"

What do you mean?

Well, like, we paid for the par-- like, it's not like--

Literally, we were paying for the party out of my business

account, and then pulling out of our other account until,

like, things were getting extremely low.

Right, but that's what I'm saying.

Like, we were just pulling money willy-nilly.

But it wasn't, like, credit. I'm not saying, like--

I'm saying the party was covered, but then--

By who?

By what?

What do you mean "covered?"

It was paid for by-- yes, by your business account.

I'm saying, and then you have to figure out how to...

like, put the money back into the account.

But what prevents the two of you from planning,

for example, how much you wanna spend on this party?

I didn't even know Nick wanted to set a budget.

Like, he knows,

and he does things at the last minute sometimes, too.

Why doesn't she know?

- That I wanna set a budget? - [Orna] Yeah.

I don't know, I don't understand that answer.

Did you talk to me before th-- you--

no, you said after the money was spent

that you wanted to set a budget.

[overlapping] No, I talked to you throughout the whole thing.

What gets in the way of negotiating--

like, figuring it out together?

I don't know, I'm much tighter with it.

Like, I--

[Orna] But you're tighter after.

[Nick] Oh, wait, what do you mean? [chuckles]

If you were tight in advance, you'd say,

"No, not this magician,"

or "No, not this cotton candy."

Right.

But I did kind of say that.

- What do you mean "kind of?" - And I told you; I said,

"I canceled the cotton candy machine."

So then it's made to make it be like,

oh, I'm the one taking away their joy.

- [laughing] I didn't-- - I-- I-- [laughs]

You're the one saying, "We need a budget."

[Nick] Yeah.

You're not comfortable with that?

It's just a complicated dynamic where I'm put in a position to,

like, be the...

- The bad guy? - The cop.

Mm-hm.

I mean, I think Nick grew up with a lot of,

like, this dynamic between his parents.

Mm-hm.

Watching them, like, fight about money and, like...

I think he felt very much in the middle of that,

and sort of--

We-- we do wanna hear something about your history,

but, I mean, would this be a good moment to--

to shift to that?

Sure.

- [Orna] So, tell. - Just... yeah.

Just go? [chuckles]

- Just go. - [Nick] [chuckles]

Um, okay.

"Do I want to crack this egg?" is my question.

[Orna] Wh-- what's the...?

I just-- I don't know if I really want to...

I wanna be careful about what I say.

Got it.

Um...

my mom's not here anymore, my mom passed away...

- [Orna] Right. - My dad is.

- Right. - And, like, there was a lot of...

really complicated stuff towards the end of her life going on

- that I was in the middle of. - Mm-hm.

[Nick] There was, like, a lot of sadness.

When do you think she started to get sad?

To me, it was, like...

my teenage years and it was my fault.

That's how I've seen it for a long time.

How would it have been your fault?

I don't know, like, doing drugs and going out with my friends

and, like, being a...

kid, in a lot of ways.

Mm-hm.

I don't feel like she was, like,

polluted with sadness throughout her whole life,

I feel like it came with the pressure of...

sort of the lack of what she'd hoped for,

which was that someone was gonna take care of her and she ended

up having to, in her own way, take care of everybody else.

And that...

made her tired, and made her angry, and...

sad and all of those things, and that eventually ate her up.

Could that be why you don't feel comfortable saying

"We can't afford this?"

Is-- is why? [chuckles]

I mean, I should get what you're saying,

- but I'm not getting... - Meaning you have...

the story of your mom who, if--

at least, in her mind-- if someone provided her with what

she needed, she wouldn't get depressed

and get sick and die!

So how could you ever, like, say,

"No cotton candy?"

Terrible things could happen

to you!

It seems that there's sort of a big story hanging over

your heads.

Yeah.

There's something really intense about it,

unresolved.

Yeah.

♪ I'm a satellite lost in space ♪

♪ I'm a car without the brakes...♪

[sighs]

♪ It's okay ♪

♪ I understand ♪

♪ I'm a history of mistakes ♪

♪ Every movement that I make ♪

♪ Is further ♪

♪ From what I had ♪

♪ So we come apart ♪

♪ For what it's worth ♪

♪ You got me at my worst ♪

♪ The truth is you're the gravity I never had ♪

♪ The only bit of certainty, the master plan ♪

♪ I'm lost ♪

♪ In this universe ♪

♪ And maybe one day I could be the same as you ♪

♪ The little bit of dopamine that gets you through this world ♪

♪ I swear I'll make it work ♪

♪ And get back down to Earth...♪