Original subtitles

♪ tense string music ♪

[man VO] I feel like my body has been in fight or flight

every second of...

- 20 years. - [Orna VO] Mm-hm.

♪

[woman VO] I'm scared of the present,

of the unknown...

I say to myself, "How did we get here?"

♪

[woman VO] I have tried very hard to meet him where he is,

but there's something about this relationship that is a mystery

to me.

♪

[man VO] I hid a lot of my life--

the trauma, my identity.

How does that affect our relationship?

[woman VO] He punishes me with silence.

Like, he won't talk to me.

[man VO] You put on this front, and the world sees you one way,

and I come home and know who you really are.

♪

[man VO] If we all have this shadow that we're hiding,

then, to some degree, we're all hiding it and protecting it for

- a reason. - [Orna VO] Mm-hm.

But ask yourself, what would be different if you

removed that defense?

What can you imagine could happen between the two of you?

[gulps]

[sighs]

I suppose we all don't know

until we talk about it.

[inhales deeply]

[sighs]

Why don't you start? Go ahead.

[softly] Okay. [chuckles]

♪

[woman] [whispering] I need 'An Intimate Life.'

[man] [chuckles] You need a lobotomy.

- You're such an asshole. - [chuckling] Sorry.

- No, that's, like, mean! - Sorry.

No, but that's like when you get nervous...

- Okay. - You just, like-- you do these, like, obnoxious things.

Like, I-- I'm not being obnoxious to you.

Okay.

[chuckling] Oh, now you're not.

I wasn't being obnoxious all day.

[chuckling] How 'bout last week and last...

Okay, hey, hey, okay, let me ask you something:

and what about you? You've been a walk in the park?

No, I'm really being serious with you.

No.

50/50.

It's definitely not 50/50...

- right now. - What is it, then?

- I'm not sure. - [chuckles]

We've both been in therapy individually,

but not as a couple.

- [Orna] I see. - So this is a new conversation.

[Orna] Yeah.

And one-- certainly one we've spoken about,

what, the last couple of years, like "We should have therapy,

it'd be good for us,"

and then we haven't done anything about it.

Mm-hm.

We have a 10-year-old daughter who's absolutely divine and

awesome,

but when she sees Mum and Dad arguing and fighting,

she has become the moderator,

and that's not fair of us to do that to our daughter,

so that's why we're here.

Yeah.

Did you prepare that? 'Cause that was really good.

- No, I did not. - Okay.

- [Rod] So we're older parents... - Mm-hm.

And our daughter addresses that,

like "Mummy, Daddy, you guys are, like, so old.

Like, why? What happened?"

We're not so old!

No, in comparison to her friends.

Yes and no, 'cause everybody's mixed;

- it's different. - That's true.

In the city, it's different. It is.

Are you in the middle of an argument right now?

- I don't think so. - No.

[Orna] Uh-huh.

- I don't think so, no. - No.

- I think when you see it-- - Yeah.

You'll probably know it. [chuckles]

No, I'm just curious about the tone.

Oh, I have a tone.

I mean, that's--

You both sound like you're...

almost there.

Okay, and this is how it's always been.

Mm-hm, it's always been.

[Alison] We have no patience for each other.

[Orna] I hear it!

[chuckling] That's true, absolutely. See?

And in the apartment, when it escalates,

that becomes loud.

I mean, that's-- I mean, I'm more one to...

- try to take a deep breath... - [Orna] Mm-hm.

And then Alison's one to be a bit more vocal.

- Okay, okay. - [Rod] What?

I think you need to be a little honest.

What?

In the last couple of years, you have really shown

a different side that I never saw when I first met you.

Okay.

You don't have any patience for Skylar or myself.

I have patience with Skylar.

So tell me, what are the problems?

I mean, everyone's gonna say this;

finances are often a big, you know,

part of the conversation.

I'm working, Alison's not.

[Orna] You work, you're at home?

Yes, I was in the fashion industry,

and then, we had a child,

and I realized that I wanted to be around.

Mm-hm.

But I think I'm resentful also because I left...

my job and, like, my career as identity,

and now that my daughter is older...

Mm-hm.

I'm questioning myself now, and-- and doubting myself.

[Orna] Yeah.

[Alison] I've had a lot of hardship...

throughout these last couple of years.

Say it; be more specific.

Um, my dad passed last summer.

Oh.

What happened with your dad?

[sighs]

My dad was diagnosed with, um...

- dementia. - [Orna] Mm-hm.

Whoa.

[sighs]

- And then-- - You're saying "whoa"...?

"Whoa" meaning-- meaning...

there's just a lot of-- there's a lot of...

layers to that.

[Orna] I'm sure.

And since all of this happened,

did things get worse between the two of you?

- Yeah. - [Orna] Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, communication has broken down.

I mean, right now, we're kind of in good behavior.

I mean, it's funny 'cause the world sees us as best buddies...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Which we are, but then we're also archenemies.

So what happens?

Alison has zero patience.

At a dime [snaps], you know, her patience is gone.

Does that sound like you?

- Yes, and I'm working on that. - [Orna] Mm-hm.

- Absolutely. - Yeah.

But it's kind of a behavior that I've learned for so long.

Interesting.

[Alison] Yeah.

Learned from whom?

- My father. - [Orna] Mm-hm.

- Meaning your dad-- - [Alison] My whole life--

Would flip like that?

[Alison] Mm-hm. [sighs]

But I mean, how many times have you threatened divorce?

Often.

I'm not gonna lie.

What does that do to you?

Um...

it just-- it just further makes me kind of, you know,

turn down my volume.

It's like, "Okay, I'll be more quiet,

I won't say anything," you know, protect myself emotionally...

Yeah.

But it's always what I do, it's the pointing fingers,

- it's "Alison," you know... - Mm-hm.

I think I am very disconnected right now with where I am in my

life, and where I want to be in my life.

Mm-hm.

And I look to him to give me something,

- and it's not there. - [Orna] Yeah.

[sighs]

♪ upbeat reggae music ♪

♪ Kiss me once ♪ ♪(Girl)♪

♪ Kiss me twice ♪ ♪(Girl)♪

♪ You're sugar and spice ♪ ♪(Girl)♪

♪ And everything nice ♪ ♪(Girl)♪

♪ Love me forever and I'll ♪

♪ Be true ♪

♪ To you, girl...♪

[whispering] Okay.

We've got a [indistinct].

♪

We're a family in crisis because we...

finally supposedly have a life together in a stable way that

we've been searching for since the moment we got married,

and ironically, no sooner have we arrived in a life that's

finally supposed to be stable--

a good place for the kids, a home we own--

we are just aliens to each other.

Aliens to each other?

I think more often than not.

[Orna] Uh-huh.

These days.

And that's-- would you say that's why you're here?

[Jessica] Mm-hm.

- We got married in May 2018... - Mm-hm.

And we left New York City on a kind of existential adventure

- like two weeks later... - [Orna] Mm-hm.

And we didn't stop moving-- despite having two kids along

the way-- until three months ago.

Wow!

New York, Miami, New Jersey, New York City,

and then Montana, which is where we've been for the last

two years.

And what was motivating these moves?

Uh, me.

She was happy in New York.

What were you...?

Um, my parents settled in New York upon immigrating from...

the USSR.

And it never quite sat right with me.

This was what year?

[Boris] Uh, 1988.

Before we immigrated, like, we were the unwanted people.

- And-- - Jewish family?

[Boris] Yeah.

I grew up among people who carried around a tremendous

sense of having been unwanted and unsafe.

Mm-hm.

[Boris] And as a younger person,

I had many dreams of going somewhere else.

And so when I met Jessica,

I sort of saw the opportunity to finally go somewhere,

and every next place was pursuit of the fantasy

of a kind of-- a place that makes you feel at home.

Mm-hm.

To have done this in our mid- to late-30s,

with a new baby,

while she's trying to get her career off the ground...

it was a disaster.

[Orna] What's your career?

I'm a psychotherapist.

Mm-hm.

That's hard to move.

Yeah, well, I had a very tough time in Miami;

nobody wanted to go to therapy in Miami.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

So we went to Montana because I got a tenure-track job

teaching creative writing.

If you're a writer, this is the ticket to every imaginable kind

- of stability. - Yeah.

And I gave that up and came back to this place so much more

expensive by comparison,

and there's not one thing in this home that makes me feel

- at home. - Mm.

[Boris] And so I feel completely and absolutely trapped...

- Mm-hm. - Regarding the possibility of...

- [Orna] Home. - Home.

I understand.

Can you tell your version of this?

Most of our moves--

with the exception of moving back to New York City--

were to facilitate Boris' need,

and my stuff got kind of, like...

put back.

This was supposed to be my time now--

"All right, Jessica gets a turn."

Mm-hm.

But my turn is being slowly eroded by the fact that

you are not happy where we are,

and that creates instability in our relationship,

and instability in my home,

which is also where I work.

[Orna] So what happens?

Describe how you're not keeping it in and what happens between

- the two of you. - Um...

[Orna] Like, bring me into your...

Practically speaking, um...

um...

what-- [sighs]

- Can I go? - Sure.

I have become afraid of leaving my office,

because if we encounter each other,

it all spills out.

How?

You'll just start listing the things that are--

are bothering you, and so there's--

- But how does it sound? - [Jessica] I get--

You want a practical example?

[Orna] Yeah, I wanna hear it.

So, like, I really care about cooking,

I really care about getting, you know,

a nice apple versus a shitty apple...

Mm-hm.

And it was perfectly possible to go do that in-- in a completely

unstressed way in the place we lived.

So keeping going.

And how does this sound at home?

So I'm constantly reciting all the ways in which this place

is just-- it just feels like the opposite of what we need

as a family.

If my partner was giving me what I'm giving to Jessica,

I would call the moving company.

And-- and I--

[Orna] Call the moving company and say...?

This is very frustrating for me to hear.

[Boris] "Let's go."

"I would call the moving company and say...?"

"You don't like it here? [Boris] "WeLet's go."g."

That's what he wants.

- I-- I get it. - That is one--

- one of the things that-- - It is so frustrating.

Because?

I've been there!

I've been there!

Been where?

In a state of extreme distress!

- And-- - And we left!

Do you-- I wanna hear the story from your shoes.

I have been in a place-- Montana--

where I wanted to get out.

And we stayed for two years,

but I was not well.

[chuckles] I disagree with that.

- [Orna] Say. - Excuse me?

I disagree with that narrative.

How so?

[Boris] How so? So, um--

So I was perfectly well?

I was great?

I was doing great?

Do you see what just happened?

She flipped from the truth about how she was feeling,

and when I disagree with that version,

there's this sarcastic thing that happens...

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - All the way to the other end.

"So I was great.

I was perfect then."

I hate that.

When you question my experience,

it is incredibly frustrating.

I just don't know how to live with this person and I'm pretty

sure this person doesn't really know how to live with me

when our aspirations for what home feels like are so

- different. - Mm.

If she wants peace and stability,

all the leading aspects of this life seem to make our lives more

-- not less-- complicated, at least the way that I live it.

But I'm sorry, at least for now, you're married to me.

♪ cool funky music ♪

[softly] If I start to cry...

- [softly] Oh, you're gonna cry. - [softly] Punch me in the face.

[fan whirring]

[softly] Probably COVID all over that.

Oh. [laughs]

- Good job. - [both laugh]

♪

[muffled speech] I was born in Poland,

and I moved to America when I was three or four years old,

and then that's when we found out I was deaf.

What do-- wait.

What do you mean that's when you found out you're deaf?

I think my mother was in denial.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Her intention-- her noble intention-- was to...

have me function as a hearing person.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And not be a deaf person, so no American Sign Language;

I was forced to read lips.

And so my deaf identity was suppressed growing up.

Mm-hm, yep.

And...

because I was growing up as a child

with no full access to communication language

I was super isolated.

Mm.

I was also very isolated in high school and, um,

in college undergrad-- and even at grad school.

I was the only deaf person in the room.

Mm.

And it wasn't until a friend of mine introduced me to the gay

community, and my life just changed after where

I became much more confident.

Mm-hm. Do you sign?

- I sign a little bit but... - [Orna] Uh-huh.

Yeah.

It's not as fluent as I'd like it to be.

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - Yeah.

And then, when COVID happened--

I rely on lip reading--

you're wearing face masks...

- [Orna] Oh... - Shit.

- [scoffs] - [Kyle] Yeah.

- Right. - [Kyle] Yeah.

During COVID, the mask thing, yes,

I assumed that role of the-- of the adult;

of the more responsible one;

the accessible, hearing person who's now having to make sure

my partner's okay.

Mm-hm.

But I struggle, because [chuckling] I don't wanna feel

like a fucking parent.

I don't.

I don't like it.

It doesn't-- it's not fun.

It's not fun to be the responsible one all the time.

Mm-hm.

I think it's important to point out that your mom died of COVID.

- [Mondo] Correct. - Oh.

I think that was the point of shifting

as Mondo becoming an adult. [chuckles]

- Um... - What happened?

She passed away, um, January of 2021,

and everything changed.

Like, everything.

The dynamic between us changed,

the dynamic of me in my family changed,

and suddenly, I became the adult in my family,

and the one who's responsible for everything all of a sudden.

Mm.

Then, I started to reflect how it's manifesting in my

relationships,

and especially with Kyle.

And I was just like,

"Ooh, this is getting tough."

[Orna] Tell me.

With Kyle, the anxiety that I've been feeling is associated

with the...

the new thing that we're taking on as, like,

an open-- [gulps involuntarily]

- an open relationship. - Open relationship.

[Orna] Oh.

Wow, that almost, like, didn't wanna come out of my mouth,

- didn't it? - Mm-hm.

[Mondo laughs]

Kyle suddenly introduced this concept of

"I want to have sexual relations with other men,

whether you're in it or not.

I wanna explore this part of my life,

and I need you to move forward with me because I will not

accept monogamy."

You know, he pretty much said...

"It's either this or that."

What do you mean "It's either this or that?"

"It's either this-- you accept it--

or that, which is...

- bye." - Uh-huh.

[Mondo] Like, "We may have to part ways."

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - Yeah.

- I don't like being contained. - [Mondo] No.

And that's partly why I also love him very much.

But if it was up to me, the choice would be no.

Like--

- No open relationship? - [Mondo] No open relationship.

Mm-hm.

And it's not because...

of control of any sorts of whatever,

it's really just me, like...

It just seems less messy,

less stuff to deal with, right?

Like, opening the relationship, I think,

is just welcoming a slew of new problems,

- right? - Mm-hm.

But, because I know this is something that has a lot to do

with Kyle's identity, I have to be flexible!

Mm-hm.

I love him so much.

I mean, I-- I just absolutely adore him.

[fighting tears]

So there's a part of me that feels like I have to release

- that anxiety... - Mm-hm.

In order for this to happen so that he can be happy,

so that he can have that experience,

so that he can feel

like he's getting something that he needs.

And I'd love to figure out why is it so important?

Like, why is it so important?

It doesn't make any sense to me, but it-- but it is,

and I wanna understand why.

Mm-hm.

♪ curious synth music ♪

[Orna VO] I think it's very frightening for people to have

a raw, honest experience in real time

with their partner.

- Hi! - Hi there.

♪

[Orna VO] And there are many ways that people avoid real

communication.

It's never gonna be me.

[Orna VO] I mean, one way to think of it is the difference

between a real signal and noise or static.

[overlapping indistinct voices]

[woman] But it's one of our biggest arguments!

[Orna VO] People can just talk about nothing.

Maybe you're not listening!

[Orna VO] Either they just bicker endlessly...

You always have an excuse.

[Orna VO] Or obsess over something that doesn't matter.

He'll find something wrong.

[Orna VO] That's all noise.

I'm begging you to talk to me, and you're not showing up.

[Orna VO] It's like a way to fill space with each other and

make some kind of connection,

but you're nowhere real.

[man] I've said the same thing a hundred times.

[man] But that shouldn't even be something in your head.

[woman] I'm always doing something that's

gonna disappoint...

[Orna VO] But as analysts, we're trained to listen in

for that,

and to find a way to move from noise to signal.

One hundred percent incorrect.

[Orna] Stop!

Stop, stop.

What are you avoiding?

[sighs]

What would happen between the two of you if you face what's

scaring you?

♪

[sighs]

[Orna VO] So, tell me.

What's bringing you here?

Tell me about yourselves.

Do you want me to go? [laughs]

Go ahead; you start it off.

I feel like I talk too much.

Um, we've had a lot of, like, ups and downs in our

relationship, and, um...

recently, we embarked on this

ayahuasca retreat together.

It was Nick's idea.

Um, and I had no idea what to expect,

but it was actually this, like, incredibly powerful

and, like, amazing experience.

Did you go somewhere?

- We went to Costa Rica for it. - [Orna] Yeah.

While you were under the medicine,

were you talking to each other or were you each in your own...?

They separate you, so we were across the room from each other.

Mm-hm.

And while we were, like, physically separated,

I could hear him,

- and he could hear me. - Wow.

[Katherine] So I could, like, hear him in distress.

[Orna] Mm.

[voice wavering] It was hard for me.

And I guess I feel like it...

It just made me realize, like, I feel like Nick has been in

distress for, like, a lot of our relationship.

Like...

[sniffles]

Tell me.

[laughs]

All right, I'll go.

We're just goin' right in.

Um...

I feel like there's just a lot of, uh,

grief and shame that I found in that ayahuasca experience...

- Mm. - Um...

sort of in my, like, root chakra dantian area,

and, um, it had moved into my legs and it was actually living

there; there was a physical energy living in my legs.

- Mm-hm. - Um...

which these shamans tried to...

get out of me, and it actually wouldn't--

wouldn't come out of me for a bit.

So, anyway, I had a...

an experience taking a look at that, um...

grief and pain.

[sighs]

Are you okay to get into it?

I don't know.

I feel like part of it I am, and part of it I'm not--

I'm not quite sure yet.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

[Nick] I mean, I could talk about part of it.

- Okay. - [Nick] Um...

You know, my mom passed away five years ago.

Um... [clears throat]

What happened?

She died of, um,

Parkinson's and a number of other things that were

undetectable.

We went to, uh, the Mayo Clinic, we went to other places and

couldn't-- they actually couldn't unearth what it was.

[inhales deeply] And...

the real answer to that, I think,

is, um...

is sadness and-- and, um...

those emotions being buried and affecting her body.

- [Orna] Mm-hm. - And so I think--

[clears throat] I think a lot of what came up for me

in my experience was a real recognition of the fact

that that's what happened to her,

and that I've absorbed some of that.

Um...

Yeah, just, like...

Do you wanna say something?

[Katherine] Um...

I think it took up a lot of Nick's, like, mental space.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

But he also had a lot of, like, anger towards her,

and so he, like, didn't let himself feel the sadness

until this ayahuasca retreat.

He just, like, cried a lot and was, like,

very open.

But then he closes again.

Mm-hm.

That's something that scares me, honestly,

'cause I-- I saw that a lot, like,

towards the end

of his mom's life.

Like, his father took on the caretaker role,

and there wasn't a relationship anymore.

And I think, like, I fear that;

like, I fear falling into the, like,

"We're on, like, our own islands."

[Orna] Mm-hm.

[Katherine] We take care of things;

you know, the bills are paid.

But there isn't, like...

love.

♪ melancholy music ♪

[Orna VO] It seems like I'm already kind of in with a bunch

of these people.

Like, the cases feel really deep.

[Virginia VO] Right.

- [Katherine] Thank you. - [Nick] Thank you.

[Orna VO] With Nick and Katherine,

they're both kind of avoidant, and they keep a lot of

information from each other.

[Katherine] [softly] Bye, Nico.

[Orna VO] But there is an enormous amount of sadness

and grief in him.

I see.

And he seems to be teetering on the verge of wanting to put

something very meaningful to him out there.

Like, "I've got a secret, but I'm not ready to tell you."

♪ Did you hear it ♪

♪ Picking apart our peace of mind?...♪

[Orna VO] But that's part of why people do this:

to block the exits.

Open up, and work it out.

♪ Did you feel it ♪

♪ Like a knife ♪

♪ Or were you too numb inside?♪

♪ Quickly I tried to tear its hide ♪

♪ But the truth is a beast that will not die ♪

♪ It knows you don't ♪

♪ Feel the same way as I do ♪

♪(You don't, you don't)♪

♪(You don't, you don't)♪

♪ And you never did and you never will ♪

♪ Love me like I need ♪

♪ And you never did and you never will ♪

♪ Know how I feel, know how I feel ♪

♪ And you never did and you never will ♪

♪ Love me like I need ♪

♪ And you never did and you never will ♪

♪ Know how I feel, know how I feel ♪

♪ Did you see me ♪

♪ Dripping wet on the kitchen floor?♪

♪ Tears a-streaming ♪

♪ But you walk right through me ♪

♪ Am I just a ghost?♪

♪