Original subtitles

[Orna VO] Sexuality, intimacy...

What is the history of that for each of you?

[both chuckle]

I think-- [clears throat]

I think it's bad... [clears throat]

my history.

How is that, and what's "bad?"

Um, I guess because of the lack of,

-um, a father figure... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

In the house, I would... [inhales sharply]

um...

bring girls over...

to the house, t-- to a point where...

my mom would...

always yell at me,

saying that the house is not a hotel.

-[chuckles] -[Orna] Mm-hm.

And it got even worse when I went away for college

for, like, five, six years.

I had a high sex drive, I guess.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -All right? Uh...

I don't even know if it was an exaggeration to say that I had a

different girl every day of the week.

I really do still wonder how I've completely stopped...

-[Orna] Yeah! -[chuckles]

-Being me. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

♪Brain, brain, go away♪

♪Come to play another day♪

♪upbeat funky music♪

♪rapping in Spanish♪

♪♪♪

We had a pretty intimate first two years,

and then it...just...

died; it just completely, like, got cut off.

What killed it?

Her belief in abstinence.

Well, we started off casually, so I was having fun, too,

without thinking it was gonna really go anywhere.

But why is casual sex or intimacy okay,

and when you get serious, it's not?

Uh, it's not okay.

It-- it wasn't.

But I think maybe I was [chuckling] rebelling then.

I-- I was...

probably angry and upset and going through a breakup,

and just meeting him, I felt like it was like,

"Oh, he's a bad boy, so...

I'm gonna do bad things [chuckling] with the bad boy

-that I'm not gonna marry." -[Orna] And that's...

you're suddenly allowing yourself some freedom

internally.

Well, it only goes for a very short period of time,

where I can just let it go and just...

let my flesh just do whatever it wants,

and then I'm hit with a whole bunch of shame and guilt and...

this mental torment later on.

But the struggle is with...

doing things, or even wanting things?

Yeah, both, so it's not even just the act of doing it,

-it's just, like-- -Just any desire is...?

[Joey] Yeah.

Like, for example, like, masturbation.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Like, that,

I feel the same way, so it's not just--

So it's not just what you do with someone else,

it's sexuality in general.

[Joey] In general.

But now, there's nothing to feel guilty about;

we're married and this is something we should be enjoying.

But there is no...

like, urge or, like, desire for me, like,

wanting him, unless-- like, I have to focus,

and when I do focus and it actually happens...

Mm-hm.

A, it hurt, and two, he'd get disappointed because I couldn't

finish or he couldn't finish.

So are the two of you operating, in this case,

that the idea of sexuality is intercourse?

Yes.

[Orna] Okay.

-Well, maybe-- -Right? Yeah.

Right. [chuckles]

Well, when couples meet this kind of impasse,

they have to get a little...

creative and expansive about, like, what...

how they define sexuality.

What if you're aiming to just restore some sense of...

intimacy -- physical intimacy -- between the two of you,

not intercourse...

cumming, just intimacy, and some basic pleasure?

Intercourse off the table.

Yeah, I'm on board for it, I just-- I'm afraid it's he's

gonna push to the next...

And then, he's gonna express disappointment and--

Okay, well, can you not do that?

[laughs]

Well, anything's better than...not.

-[Orna] Exactly. -Right?

Exactly.

So many other things you can do.

I just don't know what it looks like.

I'm sure you can think of what it looks like.

[both laugh]

♪cool percussive music♪

[Orna VO] With Casimar and Alexes,

I told them I need to prolong their treatment.

I'm making something!

What is this?

It's a horse.

No.

It's not a horse.

Maybe it's the side profile of a dog!

[Orna VO] It's really wonderful to have them for longer.

I mean, they have a lot to work on,

but I can see the change over the months.

[Casimar] Bam!

It's a snake.

Ahh!

Look, now that I've got my own snake,

I'm not even playing with that one no more.

[chuckles]

♪♪♪

They got new toys!

This is a little phallic-y.

It look like a booty plug.

[laughs]

I know one of the things we wanted to talk about,

you know, was intimacy.

Our...

sex life is not... [chuckles]

what it was when we started.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

How so?

-Well, in the beginning... -[laughs]

-You want Cliff Notes? -[laughs]

[Orna] Mm-hm.

So, we was bangin' like rabbits, we moved in together,

things were still okay,

but then, there was a major shift --

somewhere, somehow --

that the sex pretty much just stopped.

Like, it went from, like, a couple of times a week to maybe

once a week to maybe once a month,

and then, there was just, like, dry spells.

And who-- who felt what about that?

Well, I-- I felt like I had all the problems with it.

I don't even think you realized.

You felt, like, troubled by it.

[Casimar] I was just like, "Yo!"

Yeah.

"Why-- like, what's wrong with me?!"

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Like, I was still, like...

physically fit,

I don't have any issues that I think that I'm ugly,

so I was just like, "Why am I not gettin' nothin'?!"

Mm-hm.

'Cause then also, like, in our relationship,

I fully, like, became a versatile type of person.

I'm like, "I'm bangin' you, you bangin' me, we bangin'!"

[Orna] Mm-hm.

So I was flip-floppin', knee pads...

Whatever you wanted, I was willing to do!

And how did the two of you talk about it at the time?

-We didn't. -[laughing] We did not.

-[Orna] You did not. -[Alexes] No.

-It was quiet. -[Casimar] So...

we've never spoken about the intimacy.

I've never been like, "Hey, we're not having sex."

My way of talking about it was, like,

-"Come home." -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Like, "I'm here in bed and you're not here in bed."

And I was just feeling like...

I was in a dark, dark, dark, dark space,

and...

I went to the store, and I bumped into a guy that we both

know, and...

he thought the best way to comfort me was sexually.

And I was so angry, and I was so numb,

and I just let things happen.

And...

I cheated on-- and I cheated on Alexes.

I don't know how to tell somebody who's...

who, when they're yelling at you,

they're yelling, "I've been raped!

You was never raped in your life!"

And I'm like, "I need sex!

I want to have sex with you!"

[Orna] Mm-hm.

How do I demand sex from the person who is telling me that?!

[Orna] Yeah.

Like...

I-- I can't!

And then I'm thinking, "Okay, fine.

I don't have it over here, let me just supplement it

over here."

And it made sense to me!

It totally made sense to me!

I was like, "Well, I don't need to pressure him,

and he's not gonna be upset if I'm, like,

talking to other people."

-You made a deal internally... -[Casimar] Yeah.

Of how to go through this.

Then, it just couldn't stop.

And, like, he found out,

and then we yelled and we cried,

and then I still couldn't stop because there was, like,

stretches of, like, five, six months that...

we would not even touch each other...

that was outside of cuddling.

And then, like, just recently,

we had sex...

and it triggered him.

[voice cracking] And that was, like, my biggest fear:

that I was gonna do something that he was gonna see

his uncle in me.

It's-- it's just, like... [sighs]

that connection that I know is there...

It's not that it's not there; I'm wildly attracted to him,

and I know that he loves [chuckling] what he sees.

How-- how are you doing?

[Alexes, chuckling] I'm okay.

I feel bad.

[Orna] Bad how?

[sighs] Mm...

'Cause it's true.

You know.

The infidelity is almost a non-issue,

because...

It was an issue, obviously, but...

I want him to be fulfilled...

-It's not his fault, you know? -[Orna] Mm-hm.

-But it's not my fault either. -Right.

[tuts tongue] I don't know, it's just, like...

it just sucks sometimes 'cause...

there's so many ingredients in the pot that has created this,

like, sour soup.

Okay, so, um...

shall we say we're putting this on our agenda?

-[Alexes] Yeah. -[Casimar] Yes!

-[Orna, chuckling] Okay. -[chuckling] Yeah.

♪upbeat indie rock♪

♪Baby♪

♪I love you♪

♪Always thinking of you...♪

[Eyal VO] There is one partner...

-who wants sex... -[Orna VO] Mm-hm.

From the other, who does not want to give it.

And when we're talking about it like this,

it appears to me they're not just working for themselves

wanting sex, they want to bring...

-Something. -[Eyal] They want to revive...

-alleviate... -[Orna] The life of the couple.

It's the life of the couple.

The person who's, like, still holding onto the flame of sex

is holding onto the life of the couple.

[Eyal] Yeah.

And the burden of that.

♪Desire♪

♪Desire♪

♪Desire♪

♪Desire♪

[Elíana VO] Sex is weird for me... [laughs]

just generally, because I'm very, like, to the point.

[Orna] What do you mean?

So I'll turn around and be like, "You tryna fuck?

Like, wassup?"

Like, it's not, like, a foreplay kind of thing.

You don't want foreplay?

I-- not that I don't want it, it's just, like...

I went through a lot of, like...

uh, weird situations with men...

at a really young age, and...

What do you mean, Elíana?

I was raped at 14,

and...

-um-- -[Orna] Raped by someone...?

By somebody that I went to church with who was a way older

man than I was.

He was like 27 at the time.

That situation made me, like...

weird about sex just generally, obviously,

-and then-- -Meaning you were

hurt and traumatized.

[Elíana] Yeah. And...

Wh-- what happened around that rape?

I mean, did you... tell anyone? Did--

The church ended up finding out,

and I was kicked out of the church.

You were kicked out of the church?

[Elíana] Yeah.

[Orna] This is, like, double the trauma.

Yeah.

How did they find out, and...?

[Elíana] How they found out, I don't know.

I never reported it, I never said anything about it.

-[Orna] To anyone? -To anyone.

There were rumors going around that me and this person were

"dating,"

and this person was part of, like,

the "popular" cliques amongst the church.

Between that and other relationships that I've had,

when it came to, like, that department, if you will,

like, it was always very...

weird.

Meaning?

My ex-husband and I, when we got together,

um, I had several miscarriages with him.

Sex was like a chore, like, at that point.

Like, "We're gonna-- we're trying to get pregnant.

Like, we're tr--" And then, like,

he would cheat and he would go with other women,

and, like, then, like, it kind of just-- it was just...

Sex, for me, is weird.

But just to unpack what you mean by "weird,"

you're saying it started off traumatic...

[Elíana] Yeah.

And then, somehow, became a chore --

something you do for something else.

[Elíana] Yeah.

But, like, it wasn't like that with me and Mitch when we first

-started dating. -Mm-hm.

Like, when we first started, it was, like,

really fun. [chuckles]

I liked it a lot.

But, like, then life happens, right?

Like, now, we're together every day,

we're talking every day--

Can we just pause for a second?

How are you feeling during what Elíana is describing?

[Mitch] A lot of this I became aware about later on,

when we were about two years in and...

she brought it up.

Yeah.

And we were talking, actually, about it last night,

that a lot of...

what I do is self-pre-- like, preservation.

Like, when I told my ex-husband about, like,

me being raped at 14, he was like,

"You were probably asking for it."

Like, "That makes sense." Like...

-That's what he said? -[Elíana] Yeah.

-Like-- -What is this?

At that point, I'm like, "I'm never,

ever talking to anybody about this..."

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -"Ever the fuck again."

Then, we started to talk about, like,

my defense mechanisms for, like, my self-preservation is

a very...

um, how would you say it?

Well, part of the conversation was, uh, she--

on Friday, she was continuously asking me about, like,

questions about intimacy, like do I still desire that...

-from her? -Yeah.

And...

I told her that n-- essentially no,

because the expectations have changed,

in addition to, like, how sex occurs with us.

You know, typically, I'm the one who initiates or,

you know, like, tries to ease my way to that...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And, you know, whenever she does it,

it's just like...

"Yo, you tryna have sex?"

And...

to me, like, not only does it come off aggressive,

but it also, it comes off very manly.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -And...

I'm not really attracted to that.

Like, I would want her to be, like, much softer.

I could be very soft,

but I've been in, you know, very abusive relationships before

Mitch, so I'm not gonna give you any sort of ammunition to call

me soft, or any sort of ammunition...

[Orna] What's the issue with "soft?"

You're weak!

"There's a way that, like, I could--

I know your vulnerabilities and I could take advantage of you

for that."

I see, so it's really protecting yourself from being taken

-advantage of. -Yeah.

I remember when he was like, "I'm gonna move out or whatever,

like, by Friday or something," he said,

and I was like, "You could go today!

Don't hit the next guy on the way out.

See you!"

And then he was like, "A'ight, fine.

Fuck this."

So much pride for both of you.

-Yeah. -Yeah.

[both laugh]

Yeah.

I've realized that we struggle with being vulnerable with

one another. Thank you.

Yeah.

My lack of vulnerability with her emotionally,

it stems from the times in which I have been vulnerable and it's

been taken advantage of,

or it's been perceived in other ways.

In the past?

-[Mitch] With her. -[Elíana] With me.

-With Elíana. -[Elíana] With me.

You know, in my life, I've just struggled a lot with grief and,

like, a lot of loved ones and a lot of friends dying.

In 2020, a very, very, very, very close friend of mine

passed away. [sniffles]

You know, when this person passed away,

it was just -- in addition to the Black Lives Matter protests

-- was the straw that broke the camel's back.

That was, like, the first time she's ever heard me cry.

I would...

post her flyer on social media and say, like, you know,

"Rest in peace."

There was one day she had saw it and she said,

"Were you guys more than friends?"

And I was like, "N-- no!

Like, not-- not in the way in which you're thinking.

Like, that was just, like...

my homie."

I said, "Why would you ask that?"

She said, "Well, I'm just trying to make sure I'm not competing

with some dead chick."

And...

that bothered me, because it's just like,

"You actually heard me crying.

So why would you make that comment?"

It felt insensitive.

And after that experience, I sort of just, like,

took that step back from being emotionally vulnerable

with her.

What's your reaction, Elíana?

I could've phrased it in another way of just, like,

"If this is somebody you were sleeping with, cool,

just, like, let me know so I don't look like an idiot,"

versus, like, "some dead chick" -- which is wrong,

I agree, I'm sorry...

-but-- -Just the way that's phrased

-is just-- -[Orna] Yeah, I think, to me,

it sounds like we're talking about, um...

your self-protective, uh, wrapping...

can be-- can have an impact that you might not be completely

aware of.

How do you mean?

I think you're not aware of how hurtful it can be.

That you're aware of needing to protect yourself,

but you're not aware of what...

the shield is doing, in this case, to Mitchell.

I...

I will protect myself at any cost.

At any cost?

[Elíana] At any cost.

Okay, so what-- what am I gonna do with you guys, then?

[Elíana] No, no, no!

I'm just saying, like, I know that about me,

and...

I didn't realize that it was costing him.

♪When will this hoping♪

♪Feel like a wing?♪

♪For now, I'm soaking♪

♪Weak in my knees♪

♪Here's to this hoping♪

♪Taking a wing♪

♪I wanna show you♪

♪You are my dream♪

♪♪♪

For the first, like, five or six years of our relationship,

I never, never once brought up something I was annoyed at.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Whoa!

-Never. -Really?!

Yeah.

-And then Josh was like, "How--" -[laughing] Oh my God...

And then Josh was like, "How--"

Tell me about it!

I had no confidence that Josh could handle the things that I

was upset about, 'cause we hadn't worked through anything

that I was upset about!

Because you never brought them up.

[Aryn] I'm just, like...

defaulting to being easygoing at all times.

-And then-- -Well, tell me about that.

-[laughs] -I just, like, think I...

think my adaptability is a coping mechanism,

and I'm really good at it.

That's what I think.

So w--...

I'm not the therapist, never mind.

[Aryn] Go head!

I'm like, "What does 'adaptable' mean to you in this case?"

That I'm, like, more likely to go with the flow or someone

else's schedule or wants or interests.

But I'm actually not!

-Like-- like, I am... -[laughs]

I am.

I-- I feel like I do gymnastics in my brain to be agreeable

and do what I want.

Mm-hm.

♪curious electronic music♪

[Orna VO] Aryn, because of her being away and because of her --

on the face of it -- agreeableness...

[Virginia VO] Yeah.

[Orna VO] She rarely kind of creates conflict.

[Virginia VO] Yeah.

[Orna VO] But she says she's been feeling more vulnerable,

not sure of her place.

[Virginia VO] Is there no jealousy?

Do you have to talk yourself out of...

feeling threatened?

[Orna VO] It's not that there's no jealousy,

it's just not considered as a premium feeling.

There's so many things that could create a feeling of

-threat... -[Orna] Right.

To the-- the specialness that I have with you,

but then tomorrow...

Yeah, like, what-- how much can this arrangement really contain,

and when does it start to fray?

This past weekend, we were at a work event;

me, Josh, Lorena, other friends were all there.

And the three of us kind of avoided introducing each other

with any labels, you know?

We were just like, "This is Aryn, this is Lorena,"

or, another time, Josh was like,

"Here's the team!"

[chuckles]

And not using terms like, "This is Aryn, my anchor partner.

This is Lorena, my...

also my partner."

Like, we are unclear with how to introduce each other.

And it's more than just the labels;

it's like, if Lorena's there, I don't wanna, like...

be as touchy with Josh as I normally would...

or take as much time with him as I normally would,

-so a differential. -Mm-hm.

And part of that, I'm totally okay with.

Which is? Put it in words.

Like, I really do support Josh giving some of his time and

attention to Lorena, even in my presence --

like, you know?

But I don't even realize, like...

sort of, like, the toll it takes on me a little bit.

Try to describe it.

[voice cracking] I think by the end of the day,

it felt like I was missing Josh more than the beginning of the

day, even though we had this, like, amazing day together.

And I was like, "Wow! That's funny...

Like, why am I feeling that?"

So you're getting information from inside yourself.

[Aryn] Wow, I feel like I'm crying an unreasonable amount.

[chuckles]

Why are you crying so much?

Josh had asked like a week ago, like,

for me-- he was like, "Hey, I'd love you to, like,

think about, like, um...

you know, what are your ideas of, like,

how Lorena's integrated into our lives,"

and, if I feel something is coming up against a boundary,

would I be willing to just...

be flexible?

Or explore it!

To explore it.

[Aryn] And I was, like, triggered by that because I feel

-like I already-- -What do you mean "triggered?"

You had what feelings?

I felt like-- like quicksand, like, you know?

Like, "Oh, well...

I already feel like I don't stand up for myself."

I just feel stuck in...

living up to his ideas on what he thinks is right.

[Orna] As opposed to what you think.

Yeah.

How are you feeling saying that?

Um...

[Orna] I mean, you look worried.

I know, like, Josh's brow is furrowed,

-and I'm like... -[chuckles]

And what does that do to you?

[Aryn] It just makes me feel like...

I've, like, disappointed...

[Orna] Disappointed, like you've potentially disappointed Josh.

Yeah.

[blows nose]

[Orna VO] There's some way that she really suppresses

her needs with him.

She was afraid that she was displeasing or "disappointing"

him for having some "No, I don't like that."

It really seems that the idealism and politics of

their way of being poly, anyway,

is that it is not okay to say no.

Yeah.

And I think in the last few sessions,

we see both Lorena and Aryn, in different ways,

-saying a kind of no! -Yeah.

-[Virginia] "Me first." -Yeah.

[Virginia] "My thought."

And it's very, very threatening.

♪curious electronic music♪

[Josh VO] We've been polyamorous for eight ye--

-over eight years now! -[Orna VO] Mm-hm.

[Josh VO] Right?

Different partners -- long-term partners,

short-term partners, different variations...

We're actually, like, really doing a good job of

living out...

the polyamorous experience that I thought was possible.

And...

I was really wondering, like...

like, what was the polyamorous experience that you expected us

to be having?

[Aryn VO] This is within the realm of possibilities that,

you know, I imagined could happen,

but I feel like it is-- like, their relationship is more

significant than I signed up for.

[Orna VO] Mm-hm.

I really, really do support everything that we're doing,

it's just...

harder.

[Josh] Yeah.

I'm having a harder time with it.

♪♪♪