Original subtitles

[static and glitching]

♪moody soul music♪

♪Trouble is I know I waited far too long...♪

[Orna VO] What happens to us early in life establishes

a certain kind of blueprint as to how the rest of life is gonna

get experienced.

[crying]

[Orna VO] We're born in a state of complete vulnerability and

dependence.

♪Trouble is I don't know how to let it go♪

♪Trouble is I'm someone you think you know...♪

[Orna VO] We take in, for the first time, social order,

hierarchies, what is forbidden, what is allowed.

All of that starts, really, in the family.

♪Someone else♪

♪Someone else♪

♪Trouble is♪

♪Trouble is♪

♪My trouble is♪

♪Trouble is♪

♪Trouble is♪

♪Trouble is I'm just scared of what comes next♪

♪What comes next♪

♪What comes next♪

[woman, laughing] They prepared for three people.

[laughter]

Can we switch sides?

[woman] What...?

No, I wanna sit on this side.

[laughter]

[Josh VO] Me and Aryn met on OkCupid.

She actually wouldn't have identified as polyamorous,

but I had a mutual friend that I had reached out to and said,

"Hey, do you know this Aryn woman?"

And she was like, "Oh, yeah! The poly girl?"

I didn't even know I was poly; I didn't even know that word,

I just was.

I was, like, communicating that I was dating this one person in

college and told him I was also dating this other person and

-checked in with them both... -[Josh and Lorena chuckle]

And they were like, "Okay," and I was like,

"Okay, great!"

This really put me on a rocket ship towards...

what felt like, to me, rewiring my brain.

Like...

For example?

I mean, a million things!

What's the thing that pop into your head?

There was this moment where I was like...

oh, Josh was sleeping over, I lived at this, like,

cool circus house that a bunch of acrobats lived,

there was a party, I came back to the room,

and I was like, "Josh, there's a a guy over there,

he's so cute.

I would totally have sex with him if you and I weren't here."

-And I-- -I was devastated!

[Aryn] I could not understand!

[both laugh]

So she couldn't understand, and I was like,

"How do you not understand this?"

Like, that's just, like, a thing that you don't usually hear with

the person that you're in love wi-- I had, like...

Aryn was like, "You can be super upset about this,

or we can just, like, use this sexual energy for ourselves and

our own arousal."

And I was like...

"What?!"

Like, "How is that humanly possible that I've never thought

about...

doing that?"

And then, me and Lorena ended up matching on Bumble...

and...

in the most unexpected way,

completely fell in love with Lorena.

[Lorena] I've been poly for years.

I was just coming back onto the dating scene after not dating

for about three years.

I went through, like, a horrific,

horrific heartbreak, and I was just like,

"Forget about all of it, not interested,

not worth it."

And so it was surprising to meet someone that was, like,

really wonderful and thoughtful and interesting

and...

got the poly thing, and Aryn was actually a big piece of that.

Like, that was just, like, an orientation in the beginning --

that he had a primary partner -- and I was like,

"Great, you're not gonna catch feels for me, then."

Like, "This is perfect," which, like...

that's not how it works, but that's how I wanted it to work

at the time.

Falling deeply, madly in love with Lorena was, like,

not-- I didn't think that that was in the cards of what

would happen.

What are you thinking, Aryn, when you're hearing this?

Honestly, it makes me really glad that Lorena's in Josh's

life because I want Josh to have all the connection that...

he wants, and I want connection for myself in other places.

Like, one of Josh's concerns I think is so funny;

in the beginning, he was like, "I'm afraid I'm never gonna be

enough for you,"

and I almost laughed comically 'cause I'm like,

"Oh, you won't be enough.

I will want to connect with multiple people,"

but I always want Josh to be my anchor partner,

and I know that I want, like, other people to bring out new

parts of me and new sides of me.

So...

And I love that Josh and Lorena get to do that for each other,

especially because I can be so invested in my career and...

What's the career?

Training and performing circus.

So I split time between New York, Las Vegas,

and touring around the country slash cruise ships

and the Mediterranean.

-So... -[Josh and Lorena laugh]

When I first, like, decided to commit to circus full time,

it really took me on the road.

So tell me something about that.

I'm, like...

the "local partner," I guess?

Or I don't really know if I actually have a word;

that's the first time I've ever said that out loud.

That's the first time you've ever said that, for sure.

-But, like-- -The local partner? Okay.

It's interesting 'cause I get to spend way more time with Josh

than Aryn does.

And so, like a year into us dating,

Josh was like, "What's our future together?"

And I was like, "Um...

I don't-- I don't think about the future, really.

Like, um..." [laughs]

It's just not...

You wanna talk about why you don't think about the future?

Yeah, I mean, definitely!

So, like-- so my mom, uh...

had ovarian cancer,

and she was given a month to live and proceeded to live

for another seven years.

Wow.

But there was, like, seven years of this intensity of, like,

-"When is she gonna die?" -Right.

[Lorena] And so thinking about the future became, like,

the enemy.

I have, like, a hyper response of fear and dread and just that

it means death, and, uh--

How old were you when she was diagnosed?

I was a senior in college, so 21? 22?

[Josh] I think that's, like, important to know, right?

It's like her entire 20s were essentially taken by...

the impending dread of her mom passing.

And that then definitely, definitely compromises my, like,

capacity -- especially then -- and just, like,

ability to even be in the conversation,

let alone, like, have it.

Just being like, "Oh my God."

I just, like, immediately don't feel safe.

Like, "I don't wanna talk about the future."

Like, I-- I, like, just had this somatic experience.

And so for me, I had this continuous feeling that Lorena

-was just gonna vanish... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

'Cause we would have these hot-cold experiences,

-not full communication... -Mm-hm.

And so I was like,

"Okay, we can't plan anything that's more than

a week away,

you love me,

I love you...

What does a future even look like?"

Mm-hm.

We're not doing, like, the heteronormative traditional path

of, like, we're not gonna get married,

and I'm like, "Ooh, the easy balls are, like, out,"

and I wanted Aryn in the conversation too,

'cause I was like, "I don't really know...

Where do I fit?"

And at the time, you guys were, like,

primary partners, and that meant something very specific to me,

which was like, "Well, I'm your secondary partner,

so, like, I don't really...

I don't know what you guys are doing,

so in that...

alignment...

what does that look like?"

♪moody synth music♪

[chuckling] Oh my God...

[whispering] Babe, stop!

Sit down.

[laughs]

[Rex VO] It was a hidden relationship from her mother...

-[Orna] Uh-huh. -For I think six years?

Why was it hidden?

'Cause she's a Christian, I'm also Christian.

It was a non-negotiable that my partner had to be a Christian.

What was your affiliation?

I was pretty much atheist.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

I didn't meet the prerequisites right off the bat.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

[Joey] I was living with my mom.

Mm-hm.

I thought that once we got married and we were living

together, things would improve between my mom and my husband,

and that did not happen.

It actually progressively became worse.

What was going on?

Every day, I would be subjected to her saying something really

negative, and...

at some point, she just stopped acknowledging us all together.

Oh!

She pretty much told me that [chuckling] she had thought he

was, like, the Devil.

She told me she had seen, like, a vision,

-and that she believed-- -[Orna] She'd seen a vision?

Yeah, she had seen a vision that he was a black blob...

-Headless... -Representing a demon--

-[Orna] What did you say? -Headless...

Headless-- no, bodiless and...

being dragged around.

Uh, Rex, what do you-- tell me your...

version of what's going on.

We just tried to conclude that it was because...

Joey was just living with her mom for...

over 30 years, and I'm just a new man in the house and she's

just not comfortable with that.

But I didn't really feel affected by...

her mom.

How do you do that?

She doesn't really attack me at all,

she...

really just goes behind me and...

yells at-- yells everything at Joey

in Korean.

[Joey] I didn't know what to do, honestly.

I had very complicated emotions of...

"Could she be right?"

[chuckles]

"Maybe I am making the biggest mistake of my life or...

or maybe I have to sever my relationship with my mom to

protect my marriage,"

and that's kind of what we did.

-In December... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

We-- I actively looked for places for her,

and I found an apartment for her,

and now, it's been...

four months since we've been living apart.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Not talking.

Not talking since the end of January,

so I haven't spoken to her. [inhales deeply]

But I was so broken, you know?

Like, I was so heartbroken that this is our situation and...

that's when I knew, like...

-I'm not okay. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Like, I'm still working through this.

Like, four months is not enough time to...

detach all this codependency, deep-rooted...

whatever I have with my mom, and...

I just don't wanna accept that this is, like,

my reality but...

I don't know what else to do, and...

I also wanna protect my marriage, too,

'cause I chose this, and I don't regret it.

Tell me more about what's going on between the two of you.

Because she was so against him,

when she said things that would...

make me wonder, like, why she doesn't like him,

it's hard to not have some kind of doubt that crosses your mind

to be like, "Maybe I'm not-- maybe she's right,

maybe I'm making the wrong choice,"

so there was a lot of that fear in my marriage.

-Can I stop you for a second? -[Joey] Absolutely.

How do you feel hearing that?

Again, unaffected.

-[Orna] You feel unaffected... -Yes.

[Orna] By that?

Yes.

[chuckles]

Um... any thoughts on that?

I always want him to communicate and express more of his

emotions, and so--

But there's one thing that has to do with communication,

but Rex, you're saying you're unaffected.

Joey's talking about how her mother inserts doubt into her.

Right.

[Orna] And you're saying you're not affected by that.

I'm just surprised.

I always worry he's repressing things and,

at the moment, he thinks he's unaffected...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

But, later on, it's gonna explode in some way,

-and then-- -Does it?

I know that whenever we get into arguments,

it's almost like we're breaking up.

So then I'm just-- I cave;

every single time, I cave.

[Orna] You cave and what happens?

Like, "You're right, you're right, I'm sorry."

It's always your way.

It has to be your way.

My opinions...

don't matter.

♪tender synth music♪

[Orna, in high pitch] Come on, Nico!

-Hi, [in Hebrew] honey! -Hi, [in Hebrew] honey!

I thought that the way to do it is to say,

"Okay, think about identity."

[Orna] Oh my God, look at the stage!

Orna, nice to meet you.

-[Eyal] Eyal, nice to meet you. -Nice to meet you.

Like 150 people...

It would be good-- obviously, we wanna be able to see

the audience so we can...

Very little difference between

-the stage and audience. -[Orna] Great.

-♪♪♪ -[applause]

Welcome.

We've been working on this presentation for

more than a year.

Really excited.

[Eyal VO] We all live with some level of discomfort,

sometimes shame.

And for me, psychoanalysis is about...

allowing someone else into those private parts,

and then life becomes more real,

less alienated.

[Orna VO] Some decades ago, couples therapy work was all

about active listening,

like validating and...

So yeah, active listening is good,

validating is good,

but really, what couples are fighting about are, like,

real issues.

Communication is just, like, where it shows up.

When we first met, how many jobs did I have?!

I worked two jobs and I went to school!

Comparing again!

[Orna VO] What psychoanalysis introduced was the idea that we

are motivated by unconscious forces.

We know that what people are saying

is only part of what's going on.

Analysts listen for unconscious material,

and how the past might be hijacking

their experience right now.

-Hello! -[both] Hi!

[Orna] Hi!

[Elíana] I feel like I have a lot riding on this,

like for me and my kid -- or our kid.

-Yeah. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

And, like, I may be a little prideful,

but I don't like to get things wrong.

[chuckles] So, like, I feel like...

it would be me getting another relationship wrong.

Mm.

[Elíana] Because, right now, we live separate.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

He lives with his mother in the Bronx,

and I live with our son by myself in Brooklyn.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And then he comes over...

we'll round it out to about 32 hours, something like that,

so he comes in on Wednesday night and he leaves

Friday morning.

I feel like a rent-a-wife.

Like, it's like, "Okay, you get to...

come over,

you wanna have sex, you wanna be intimate,

you wanna eat the food from my house,

but then you get to go back to your mom's house and not worry

about daycare and drop-offs and pick-ups and food and laundry."

You're smiling.

Yeah.

What are you thinking?

She's expressed her desire to have me around full time,

and I wanna be around full time.

-[Orna] You do? -Yeah!

So when I--

So both of you wish for that?

-Mm-hm. -Absolutely.

So when I spoke to her about being full time,

she says, "Okay, well, you know, because our son is at the age

where routine is very important for him,

let's sort of, like, slowly phase you into our schedule."

The literal next day, she changes;

she says, "I'd only feel right about it if...

we got engaged first," because, essentially,

she needed the commitment

before being able to move forward with me being

in the home full time.

So you're moving the goalpost.

-It's sort of-- -Can we-- I get that.

Can we backtrack?

Tell me how you arrived at this point.

Did you live together before?...

[Elíana] Exactly, we did live together.

-How did we get to this point? -[Elíana] Okay.

[Orna] You're smiling.

Yeah, so, uh...

[chuckles]

-Uh... -[Orna] You're both smiling!

[chuckling] Yeah, so we-- we did live together before.

We didn't get along at all.

Uh-huh!

And we're laughing about it because, like...

-you know, we've-- -It was stupid.

-Yeah! -Like, like--

In retrospect, yeah.

Like, we didn't talk, really, about, like, expectations,

and this is gonna sound like...

I'm sorry, [chuckling] but, like...

my man didn't even know how to clean a bathroom,

so, like, that would lit-- like, in my mind,

I'm like, "How have you been walking this Earth...

for 25 years at the time,

and not know how to clean a bathroom?"

My delivery is something I've been working on.

I would be like, "How in the fuck?"

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And I would be very angry with him.

And what do you think of that, Mitch?

[Mitch] Um...

[chuckling] You have some feelings?

It was awful.

[chuckling] Honestly.

It was awful.

Her communicating to me about, like,

cleaning, it's just like, "Okay, so you didn't...

know how to clean a bathroom.

Who do you think cleaned it, fairies?"

You're attacking me instead of us attack the issue.

That sort of takes us off the course,

and doesn't necessarily help us win at the end of the day,

and a win in that situation would have been her teaching me

-how to clean... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

The bathroom,

which would result in having a clean bathroom.

What ended up happening is he decided one morning that he was

just gonna pack up and go from that apartment,

and he was like, "Hey, this is not working out."

You're missing a lot of context...

Okay.

As to what happened that led to me leaving,

because it wasn't just me deciding to leave one day.

You know that.

I decided to leave the home because this was a sinking ship,

and me leaving would have saved our ship.

She took it as me quitting on her.

I'm not running away, I'm trying to save us,

and...

How did you feel leaving?

I feel like...

the captain of a ship

where my crew mate doesn't trust me.

I kind of missed how your son came into the picture,

so how did that happen?

We ended up hanging out a lot more and just, like,

getting back into, like, our normal thing.

I was just like,

"I'll be 30 in...

a little over a year."

-Mm-hm. -"So, like...

are you okay with having a kid?

Like, is that something that we're gonna do?"

It was a decision that I was comfortable with because,

at the time, we were in a very good space,

and we were in a good space for...

for, uh, months at a time.

Mm!

I was like, "Look, like, I've had a very...

hard time conceiving and stuff like that,

and that was ultimately one of the issues with

my ex-husband and I."

Our son was my sixth pregnancy; I had five miscarriages before.

It was a very big deal to me.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

[Elíana] But now, it doesn't feel like we're a partnership in

most cases.

Like, this is a relationship,

but I felt like coming back home,

I was coming back home to a teenager,

to be like, "Did he do the dishes?

Did he take out, you know, the fish from the freezer?"

-- bare minimal things that if I had a 15-year-old kid

living with me would know...

that they would have to take care of these things.

What are you thinking, Mitch?

Her comparing my actions to a 15-year-old kid...

[Orna] Yeah.

She doesn't see how this is offensive at all.

If you love someone, you treat them with respect,

because why would you wanna attack the character of someone

you love?

♪pensive quirky music♪

Okay, so look...

This is...

the aliens...

What?!

[man] This is the mothership.

And then it's coming to attack the building.

And then this is the blood that's shedding.

And then these are the feets of the people who ran away.

You don't see that?

If we're not currently, like,

-fighting about something... -[Orna VO] Mm-hm.

[Casimar VO] It's just, like, super blissful.

I see.

And then the second something happens,

it's like the walls are caving in,

the ground opens up, the bats fly out...it's crazy.

Yeah, no, that's the thing about our relationship:

that when it's good, it's really, really good, and...

it just takes, like, a pin drop,

and then it's [chuckling] really, really bad.

So...

maybe you're both really good dissociaters?

-Well, I am, for sure. [laughs] -Well, funny enough...

-[Orna] Uh-huh. -[Alexes] Yeah.

He actually dissociates.

So, do you wanna just help me-- just how much do you dissociate?

What's your...?

We're jumping right in, so tell me your speed.

I mean, [chuckling] apparently...

[cracks knuckles] um...

[sighs]

You look like you...

think it's...

the best to not say anything.

Sometimes, it's easier for me to speak,

-and then he'll jump in. -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I-- I guess there's just kind of, like,

a moment where it just gets so heightened to the point

that his conscious self is like, "I can't do this anymore."

And, like, he won't remember the rest of the night.

So...

So...you dissociate.

[Alexes] Yeah.

[Orna] Okay.

So you're saying your relationship goes through

certain periods that you're like this,

and then other periods when the bats are out?

Yeah, there are some times when we have [chuckling] one fight...

Yeah, and then we're, like, fight--

It's, like, three months of, like...

a struggle to...

[Orna] To get back from the fight?

Yeah.

What are the main issues?

[Alexes] Family dynamics.

I don't have family because I've ex-communicated from...

myself from the family who's been very abusive to me,

but then his dynamic with his family...

he will still defend them, even if they're hurtful towards him.

And in all of our issues, I think this is our main...

like, catalyst that...

we come from very different perspectives.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Because you'll have different versions?

[Casimar] Not only different ver-- actually...

[chuckling] Yes, we will have diff--

No, we will have the same version!

-I don't think so. -We don't make up stuff.

What we have are different feelings.

To the both of us, this is right here.

-No... -I just see it from this angle;

I see the logo and you don't.

-No... -You see the logo?

I see the...

the bottle about to explode,

and me...

holding it together and my hands bleeding.

You're saying you feel things intensely.

If something is really bad, you're saying you just go...

to sever the relationship,

so that's kind of an intense reaction.

Yeah, for sure.

And you're saying about Casimar, you...

-I guess tolerate more? -Well, yeah, because--

[Orna] Or you don't have that intensity of a reaction?

To you, it's not an exploding bottle.

Yeah, to me, it's not an exploding bottle.

[Orna] Right.

What would be your response to that?

[Casimar sighs]

I'm afraid of the fighting.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

I'm afraid of... [sighs]

It's the intensity of the fights.

What happens?

I don't like-- like, it's the yelling,

the drinking,

the...

name calling,

and when it gets to that point,

it feels helpless.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

-He's my best friend! -[Orna] Mm-hm.

I want it to work.

I don't want the anger.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

What are you thinking?

I mean, this is kind of where I was talking about the bottle

-earlier. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

That I do want the anger sometimes.

♪jaunty rock music♪

♪I'm tied inside a net♪

♪Tired of breathing sweat♪

♪I got a cloud around my head♪

♪Babe, believe what I said♪

♪Inside lookin' out♪

♪Got no place to shout♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Yeah, don't crowd me♪

♪Oh, baby, don't crowd me♪

♪Don't push me in♪

♪Man, get outta my way♪

♪I'm sick of trying to stay♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Mm, baby, don't crowd me♪

♪Gimme air, gimme time♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Don't push me in♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Yeah, don't crowd me♪

♪Oh, baby, so hard♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Don't push me in♪

♪♪♪

♪My soul is crying for air♪

♪There's freedom I can't share♪

♪When I'm trying to make some, girl♪

♪I'm trapped inside this world♪

♪Why am I always rushed?♪

♪Why's independence crushed?♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Say it's all right♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Oh, it's all right♪

♪Don't crowd me♪

♪Oh, baby, don't crowd me now♪

♪It's all right, it's all right♪

♪Don't crowd me...♪