Original subtitles

This film contains very strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting

Good morning. Watch your back.

- Hey, guys, can you make room for her, please? - Come on, guys.

Morning.

E. Jean...

E. Jean, where's the video?

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

In not coming forward earlier,

you described your failure to do so

- was that the repercussions never sounded like much fun. - Yeah.

Why would you use that particular phrase

when referring to an alleged sexual assault?

I was talking about the repercussions not being fun.

Being dragged through the mud - not fun.

If you were concerned about being dragged through the mud...

...why would you choose to sue Donald Trump?

Because he called me a liar.

He called me a liar...

...and I couldn't let it stand.

♪ We follow through anything we want to do

♪ Nothing ever gets in our way... ♪

Hi, everybody, I'm E. Jean Carroll,

contributing editor to Esquire magazine

and advice columnist at Elle magazine.

And this is Ask E. Jean,

the only show on television which

stands between the American public

and the total brink of hysteria.

Yes, my darlings, there's a definite scarcity of 100% genuine

high voltage modern advice today.

Well, get down on your knees, take your lips, and thank God

I tell people to do it.

E. Jean Carroll, you don't really care who comments

- on anything, do you? - No. - Because, I mean,

- you comment on everything... - Thank you, Charles.

- ...because I was watching, you know. - Thank you.

Thank you, honey. Do you mind if I call you "honey"?

The creature who has any testosterone in his body at all,

he is waiting for you to stroke his ego, he is waiting.

He has made his decision, he tried another woman, didn't work out.

He came running back to you.

Strong evidence that he's in love with you.

Miss Tracey, what's going on?

Well, I'm 30 years old and I'm not married.

Oh, boy, good for you!

Good for you! You don't have to be married.

There's no law that says you have to be 30 and married.

Where did you get this stuff?

We called in a woman known for her no nonsense style.

E. Jean is going to help you.

Do you really enjoy sex?

REALLY enjoy sex?

Well, I always thought I did until right then.

LAUGHTER

Show that other part of you,

nobody wants you to be less.

I want you to be more.

I'm live, cutie pie.

I'm live, snookie pie.

And I can tear up your naughtiest problems by the roots,

so you call me.

This is Ask E. Jean.

Women, you are fabulous.

But for 25 years, you have been writing to me

at the Ask E. Jean column

and, for 25 years,

no matter what problems are driving you crazy -

your careers, your wardrobes, your love affairs,

your religion, your children -

there comes a line in almost every letter

when the cause of your quagmires is revealed.

Is it possible to bash men too much?

Shouldn't I just strip them all naked

and chase them across golf courses, and leave lust maddened,

flogging welts all over the whole masculine sex?

Huh?

The colossal Ask E. Jean empire would collapse in a week,

and most romantic problems would be solved

if I could just make women understand one thing...

...you are precious.

I called you right after the attack.

We were not that close to friends. I'd met you...

- You didn't like me that much, right? - No, I adored you.

See, that was the thing.

I thought you were the funniest writer I know.

And if I tell you what happened, you will laugh.

And then I will feel great.

- Yeah. - And then we'll both be happy, right?

I think, "Oh, this is going to be fun."

- Right. - And you tell me this story and I said,

"E, what happened to you was horrible."

And you got upset that I wasn't laughing.

Yeah.

And if you thought it was funny,

if I called you...

It would take the sting out.

That it hadn't happened, it was just a funny thing.

And instead, I was shocked and said,

"Wow, what are we going to do?"

Ladies.

- Cheers. - Thank you. - Thank you.

You know, I was very disappointed

that you wouldn't report him.

But, Lisa, they never would have believed me.

I would have lost my... I would have been fired.

I didn't have money to get an attorney.

Everything I had worked for would be dissipated.

You said, "Don't ever...

"..speak of this again.

"Don't ever tell anyone this story as long as you live.

"Do I have your word?"

And you did.

And that was that.

There's no such thing as destiny, dear listener.

We ourselves make our lives.

My first husband was a very jolly fellow

who thought he was Ernest Hemingway.

He shot pheasant, attended bullfights,

drank absinthe, toyed with the idea of shooting his brains out,

and so on.

Oh, we got along famously.

I spent my days writing the magazine articles,

quizzes, stories, novels, movie sets,

etc, etc, which nobody buys.

This went on for 12 years.

All the time, I'm writing, writing, writing.

And then I write this little quiz about

Hemingway and Fitzgerald, and Esquire buys it.

And of course, that was the end of the marriage.

The year is 1982.

Outside Magazine plucks me out of oblivion,

sends me to New York to take Fran Lebowitz camping.

Fran Lebowitz leaves Greenwich Village.

A milestone in my life,

but, frankly, was in a tent.

GUNSHOT

Oh, I love it.

I absolutely adore it.

That was very loud.

LAUGHTER

I got one taste of New York and I thought, "Wow!"

And I never went back to Montana. That was it.

I rented the apartment for 400 bucks a month

on West 26th Street.

I had no bathtub, no shower, no kitchen.

I was as happy a being as ever existed.

Magazines used to be written

by very famous Hemingway, Fitzgerald,

Truman Capote, Joan Didion.

Joan Didion wrote for Life magazine.

By the way, does your audience know what a magazine is?

Probably not.

Probably not.

This is a magazine.

This is what magazine...

Magazines are like books with big glossy pages.

Oh, hello, mama!

This is good.

Now you can just publish on Instagram,

or you can have your own Substack.

And it's... You get paid from subscribers.

It's a new world, but back in the day...

I became the sort of go-to person

at Esquire to cover bizarre sexual gender...

...stories.

Dude, what a magazine.

I went to San Francisco to visit

the "Militant Lesbian Pornographers".

A FABULOUS group, I've got to say.

I went on the road and moved in with all my ex-boyfriends.

Oh, their wives hated it.

I was a made woman.

Once I was in Esquire, then I could go on and,

you know, write for, you know, whoever,

because I had a big clip.

Oh, my God, Frigid Women, that's mine.

I talked to women who could not have

orgasms with intercourse.

Oh, surprise!

Playboy was ahead of its time.

I was the first female contributing editor.

They were publishing great writers.

They paid women writers.

So what, they didn't have their clothes on - big deal!

Get past it.

First assignment was to do a profile of William Hurt.

And William Hurt and I went over to the park and made out,

and I wrote about it.

Jesus.

Oh, you see this?

I went to Dartmouth and moved into a fraternity.

Oh, my God.

When that thing ran, oh, well, because,

you know, I had everything in it.

Everything!

I'm not a very good writer,

but I understand I have an eccentric personality.

If I can just get that on paper, that's it.

Chelley Kitzmiller called Playgirl

with the idea of putting a reporter on the Love Train.

They happened to mention it to me

and I thought I was born to do this story.

These men in these books always have a lot of flash.

They're real glitzy in brooding ways -

dark, but glitzy.

That's what women want.

I mean, tell me, how many men do you know with a lot of flash?

Not very many.

The romance book is doing exactly what James Bond did.

He turned a woman into a sex object.

We are turning men into sex objects.

But in a much more tender way.

Of course.

I think men should be turned into sex objects.

Don't you?

This was Gonzo journalism.

Gonzo journalism is where you arrive at an event

and you swirl the events around yourself.

You write about how you reacted to the story.

Hi, this is Jean.

I'm about ready to pay you the supreme compliment.

I just got off a train for six days,

going across the country with women in flowered hats.

And you are the first man I called when I got to New York.

Yes.

Buckle up and lock the door.

Hunter Thompson is on the loose again

in the frenetic, slap-you-in-the-face style he calls

Gonzo journalism.

Hey.

Hunter came to New York often and we would pal around,

go to Elaine's, hang out at the strip clubs,

live sex shows and so on.

GUNFIRE

I surprised Hunter by flying to Colorado on his birthday,

calling him and telling him

that I was writing his biography

and to come and get me.

I was at the Woody Creek Tavern.

I had personally driven in his

red Pontiac, top down.

He's smoking a grass pipe...

...and he's just done a lot of cocaine,

and we are going 70, 80, 90mph

on the mountain roads...

...headlights off.

That's Hunter...

He lived in a state of grace.

And I learned a lot from Hunter.

The world was to him...

...something to have fun with.

The new editor in chief of Elle magazine

had been reading these Esquire stories,

and she invited me to lunch.

She loved the tone.

She loved the ride the wild bronco,

go for the story, never let go, you know,

grab that bone and bury that bone, and dig up that bone.

And she loved that.

And so then she said, "How would you like to have an advice column?"

And at that moment, it was like I was on the top

of the Empire State Building...

...and I jumped and I fell

into a vat of honey.

It took, zoom, off.

I was the only game in town.

That was it.

I got boxes of Ask E. Jean letters.

"Rich girl revolted by snot hag mother."

"I'm stuck, my rut..." Uh, uh, uh...

Oh, that's interesting.

Here's where I told people to give up men.

Huh? It's not that great.

All my dreams were about becoming an advice columnist.

From the age of ten...

...nightly, my father would come home from work.

My mother had to meet the man at the door with the cocktails,

and as they sat and discussed the day,

I would be reading Dear Abby or Ann Landers.

Boy, what great teachers.

Those women could write.

And they were witty and they helped people.

And so, you know, I drank it in.

My answers did not come from me.

My answers came from reading all those hundreds

and hundreds, and hundreds of letters

of women writing how they screwed up their lives.

So, when you read that all day long,

you take that and you compute,

"OK, that doesn't work, that doesn't work."

And then I can give back all this knowledge

that the readers gave to me.

Yes, you can stop sucking on that dream sickle

of destiny, doll face,

because you know who's on next.

Roger Ailes gave me my own TV show.

Ask E. Jean was a live, daily, one-hour frolic

that Entertainment Weekly called

America's Answering Machine.

I've never sugar-coated my advice.

And, ladies, it was stupendous.

- So, tell me, you're married... - Right.

...and you're out of a job right now?

Yes, I get up in the morning because I have

to take my son to school.

But after I get home,

I'm just very bored.

- Right? - I think, well, if I had an education,

if I had my college degree,

I could be going places.

I could be doing something that I really want to do.

OK, so you know what you're going to do for yourself this Christmas?

- What's that? - Middletown's got a great community college,

- if I remember correctly. - Yes.

You're going to be enrolled in that thing.

You're going to put a nice new pair of Christmas shoes on,

you're going to walk over there and you're going to enrol.

You're going to go to college.

Why not? What's stopping you?

Go, OK?

Go.

If you ever want to know the pulse of America,

just read advice columns, you'll see it.

It's not necessarily in the answers, it's in the questions.

In the 1990s, women were coming into their own,

worried about their purpose in life.

They talked about their careers,

for God's sakes, it was great.

In the '80s and '90s, we were quiet about that

because we were trying to, you know, make our way in the world.

I think the world that is 40 and younger

cannot conceive of what it was like to work

and knowingly...

...be subject to...

...the predations of men.

But we all didn't know how to think about this

other than it happens to women.

That's how we thought about it.

But we told each other these stories,

like war stories that you got

when you were trying to ascend in your career?

- We wanted to be... - At the table?

Yeah, to be at the table, that was it.

There's Ask E. Jean.

Dallas, today is National Slut Day.

Happy sluts everywhere

are drinking champagne, and unhappy sluts are writing to me.

I don't like reading any of the advice I gave before.

I told women to suck it up and just get on with it.

You know, that's the Silent Generation, that's...

I was living my truth.

Oh, Jesus, I hate it when women say that.

And I'm pleased, our final guest, E Jean Carroll.

She's a contributing editor to Esquire,

an advice columnist at Elle magazine.

The press has gone to great lengths to draw certain distinctions

between Anita Hill, on the one hand, and Paula Jones on the other.

If you look at Anita Hill story,

she complained about the Coke bottle, you know,

about him making lewd remarks about pornographic films.

And if she had merely really said,

"Shut up, Clarence" -

and the same thing with Paula Jones.

She came into the room and he said,

"I love your curves".

And then, he put his hand on her leg...

Jeez, I'll need a cold towel in a minute here.

And I think both the women are wimps.

I think, if they've displayed any bravery or personal courage,

they would've dealt with it on the spot,

- and not have brought it into the country... - It's not that easy.

- It's not that easy. - But, Diane, if they had...

First of all, he's a governor.

- I mean, and she's... - She's a woman! She was 20...

She was 24 years old. He was putting his hands on her...

I completely thought that the way to get to the top -

which was, to me, the end goal.

You want to get up and you want to, you know, get as high as you can

so you can earn as much money as you can, because everything's...

Is... The odds are against you.

What's this one?

So, that's where my eyes are trained.

This is sort of sad, looking at these, actually.

It's nice to make a man happy.

It's a bad movement to make all men happy.

It's about a time, it once was.

I remember when I saw the New York Times story,

something about Harvey Weinstein, I'm looking...

...and I couldn't believe it.

Not one woman.

Not two, not three, not four.

It was a watershed moment.

I mean, it was breathtaking.

The surge of #MeToo rose up and just swallowed America.

And what happened is women started to write to me, to ask E Jean,

should they come forward?

How can I sit there, silent?

Whoever you are, secret listener,

I know two things.

You do honour to the human species,

and you possess a list.

I'll bet yours looks something like mine.

"I recall three instances of being thrown to the ground..."

"I was attacked by a military cadet..."

"Men have had the opportunity to chase me...

"..Molested by a camp counsellor..."

"..bruise me, maul me..."

"..Propositioned by a mob guy..."

"..prick me, prod me, thump me..."

"..Chased by my boss."

This list will be called

The Most Hideous Men Of My Life list.

I started to make a list of the not-so-very...

The horrible men in my life.

Trump went down on the list.

I never would've written about it,

Never, never, never,

until these women came forward.

And then, I thought, "Oh, OK.

"This is how it... This is what it does.

"This is what happens.

"You don't be quiet about it.

"You don't shut up."

There's more breaking news tonight.

In an interview published in the latest edition of New York Magazine,

a woman claims that President Trump

assaulted her 23 years ago.

E. Jean Carroll has had the kind of career in publishing

that a lot of young women in journalism dream of having.

Prolifically published with an absolutely singular,

instantly-identifiable writing style.

People have called her "the female Hunter S. Thompson".

Writer and Elle magazine advice columnist E. Jean Carroll says

this happened in a dressing room at the New York clothing store

Bergdorf Goodman, just steps away from Trump Tower.

It was against my will.

And it hurt.

And it was a fight.

Somehow, I got my knee up and pushed him back.

And the minute he backed up, I was out the door.

Why didn't you call the police?

Didn't have the guts.

- Didn't want to be assaulted again with a lot of questions. - Yeah.

E. Jean Carroll, thank you very much for joining us.

- Thank you for having me on. - We really, really appreciate you

sharing this very difficult story with us.

Really appreciate it.

I went on all the shows and told the story,

and the one question they had for me was,

"Are you going to sue him"?

I didn't have a lawyer. I didn't think of ever suing anybody.

OK, let's see what we got.

"Trump desperate to avoid

"E. Jean Carroll lawsuit, lawyers say."

Good headline.

I have no idea who this woman is!

It's a false accusation,

and it's a disgrace.

People have to be careful...

...because they're playing with very dangerous territory.

The President denied Carroll's allegations,

saying that E. Jean Carroll isn't his type.

"She's not my type." That is what the President of the United States

has just said about the woman who says he sexually assaulted her.

Which is what one says when a friend tries to fix you up, "Not my type".

It's not what anyone really says when accused of

what amounts to rape.

I meet a woman outside of Bergdorf Goodman.

I took her upstairs to a changing booth.

It was all made up.

This is all political.

When I spoke up,

I thought he would deny it,

and then say it was consensual.

But he just called me a liar.

Seeing the President, the leader of the free world,

going on TV every single day for three days straight,

calling me a liar -

that, I couldn't take.

My entire career, as an advice columnist, rested on the fact

I could be trusted and not give anybody any bullshit.

It had to be absolutely the truth.

When the President said I'm a liar,

it shook that whole foundation.

What is your name, please?

My name is Jeannie Caroll.

To Tell The Truth, with your host, Bud Collyer!

Very well, let's meet our next team of challengers.

Panel, these three lovely young ladies

all claim to be Jeannie Carroll,

Miss Cheerleader, USA for 1964.

Let's start this cross-examination with Marty Ingels.

Number one, what did you wear when you went to that contest

and they... You beat everybody, because you looked so terrific?

I wore a cheerleading uniform.

AUDIENCE LAUGHS

Number two, do you know the cheer that starts off "Give 'em the Axe"?

- No? - We never used one like that.

Number three, do you cheer for just football or for everything?

- Everything. - Do you agree with that, number one?

How did you work up a crowd?

Not that I'm not just a little worked up sitting here,

but I mean... LAUGHTER

...to get a crowd with you.

How did you demonstrate that?

I didn't demonstrate it separately.

I worked it in with my cheers.

Will the real Jeanie Carroll please stand up?

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

Once upon a time,

the Indiana University Athletics Department nominates me

in the Miss Cheerleader USA contest

in Cypress Gardens, Florida.

I have done the thing

no Indiana University football team has ever done.

I have won a national championship.

You were Miss Cheerleader USA.

- You were. - Queen of all the cheerleaders. Can you imagine?

Does that give you special access to the All-American team that year,

the football team? It doesn't?

I get a big scholarship.

I meet President Johnson in the Rose Garden.

Billboards, 14 feet high, all over the state of Indiana.

They featured your advice columnist soaring above a stunned crowd

in the Indiana University football stadium.

And, ladies, I have never come down.

Forever in mid-leap, urging the crowd to never lose hope.

Cheerleaders are the goddesses

of grade school, high school and college.

- So, you wanted to be a goddess and now... - Uh-huh.

And now, has that sort of extended into

being a columnist, being a goddess of information?

I was a cheerleader in grade school, in high school.

And today, I open an Ask E. Jean letter and what do I do, ladies?

I start shouting and yelling, and cheering at the correspondent

to pick herself up and go on.

Here. Let's turn here. Let's see how high you can kick.

Come on. Kick, kick. Let's see. Come on.

- OK. - You know, the last time I did something like this, I got...

- I have to stretch my hamstring. - Let's do a little kick, Bill.

Come on, babe.

Can you kick up to my head?

Whoa!

"Carroll sued the President after he called her a political...

"After he called her a politically motivated liar."

That's an extremely horrible thing to say about somebody.

"Politically..." I, who do not have a political bone in my body -

or didn't. Now I do, of course.

Robbie!

Let me run and get my tea. Hang on!

Robbie, it's so great to see your face!

OK, Joshua. Just let...

- Hi, Rachel. - Hi, E. Jean!

Robbie Kaplan.

This is the woman who won Windsor in front of the Supreme Court,

which broke it open for all gay couples to marry.

So, she said, "When can you meet?

"How about noon on Wednesday?"

I said, "Fine," and rode up to the top of the Empire State Building.

And Joshua Matz laid out the case,

and they were going to give me time to think about it. I said,

"Hell, no! Let's do it. Let's do it."

"Bring the papers! Let me sign it."

- - At the tone, please state your name.

E. Jean Carroll.

INDISTINCT VOICE ON PHONE

Trump's lawyers want this thrown to the DOJ.

So, it's not E. Jean Carroll against Donald Trump.

It's E. Jean Carroll against the United States.

SHE SIGHS We all have a lot at stake here.

This lawsuit is not just for me.

It almost has nothing to do with me.

It's for, really, women across the country.

We have to know, if we file a suit against a powerful man,

the Department of Justice is not going to move in

and take the case away.

All rise.

Court is now in session.

Please be seated and come to order.

The court is sitting en banc this morning

to hear the matter of Donald Trump et al versus E. Jean Carroll.

Alina Habba. I represent

former President Donald Trump in this matter.

The President is acting within the scope of his employment

when he speaks to the American people

to publicly defend himself against a false accusation.

So, even in this court,

he should be immune.

Is there any situation in which a president speaking to the press

would not be acting, in your view,

within the scope of his employment?

I think, in this particular court,

with the case law that has been mentioned by counsel,

this was thrust upon him and he was responding to press in his job.

My name is Joshua Matz.

I represent plaintiff appellee E. Jean Carroll.

I think Ms Habba is mistaken

and Mr Trump was acting outside the scope of his employment

in defaming Ms Carroll, because he did so for personal reasons

rather than to further the interests of the United States.

We're going to listen to the hearing.

If the DOJ steps in and wins,

my case gets dismissed.

Well, can a president say anything they want and be protected?

Who is he serving when he says something like, "She's not my type"?

Is he serving the United States of America

when he makes that statement?

Absolutely, because he has to address the fact

that this could not and would not have happened. He did not do it.

A White House job is not a promise of an unlimited prerogative

to brutalise victims of prior wrongdoing

through personally motivated attacks.

That isn't the law. No court has ever said it's the law,

and we would ask this court not to make it the law.

Court stands adjourned.

- Robbie. - I came to tell you how he could say you're not his type!

LAUGHTER Oh!

What a moment. What a great morning.

The thing about E. Jean is that, you know,

when we're representing her,

all we have to do is tell the truth.

- Yeah. - This is a case where it's just so simple.

I mean, you heard their argument today.

Donald Trump's theory remains

- that he's the victim in this circumstance. - Right.

You know, and getting up and making it as clear as day,

- and that's just obviously wrong. - And he's trying to protect

- legitimate victims. Did you hear that one? - Yes.

Particularly in cases about sexual assault,

where so much yuck always becomes involved,

it's really important that the plaintiff be convincing

and persuasive and strong.

- Come here. - Oh! - You know, we all feel very lucky

and honoured to represent you and to tell your story.

And then we go on.

- And then we fight on. - And then we fight on.

Who could've guessed we'd chug, chug, chug

and puff, puff, puff

through a New York State Supreme Court, Federal Court,

the United States Court of Appeals and a Federal Court?

Nobody could've guessed it. Nobody.

What do I always say at the end of every show, honey?

What do I always say, Don?

Don, what do I always say?

Fate loves the fearless!

To my mother, I owe the richest twist of my so-called character -

confidence.

Ah, yes. Betty McKinney Carroll,

a hot-tempered, red-headed

man-rattling, rip-roaring

Republican politician.

That woman had the figure of Betty Grable,

the energy of a travelling acrobat

and the voice of a bird of paradise

screeching in the jungle.

I once saw her chase, in her high heels with bows,

a large man in a car all the way down the street

because he merely looked like he might try

to take a parking place she was about to manoeuvre into.

With a mother like this,

you either grow up to be a wimp

or a hard-nose who never gives up.

I grew up to be both.

I avoid all confrontations

and I joke my way through.

I'm glad that you could drop everything,

recreating the look

you did in 1996 in Ask E. Jean.

- This is the look. - This is the look.

Lisa is the one who did my hair and make-up every morning

in '94, '95, '96.

Speed ahead, 25 years.

I sue Donald Trump. We go to trial.

Who, on a jury, is going to believe

that an 80-year-old woman is fuckable?

Nobody.

So, we called Lisa to come and create the exact hairstyle

and make-up she made for me every day the year it happened.

You keep me absolutely settled.

You don't seem to feel the terror of preparing somebody

who's going to go up against a former president.

Because I know you're going to win.

- You're not a liar. - Right?

- Ooh! Hello, E. Jean. Look, I'm back. - You're back.

- There I am. - Hello, E.

- Honey, you fell in love with a man, what, four years ago? - Yes.

Tell me a little about him.

Well, from the beginning, he was really sweet.

We got along really well.

And after the first year of us going out,

he began to be possessive.

And what happened when you got pregnant?

Well, it got a little bit worse,

- actually, at that point. - What happened?

He would come up to my job all the time,

cause problems at work,

calling all the time.

Right. Now, those were warnings.

Every single one of those is a warning sign.

As soon as a man or woman says to you,

"You can't go out with your friends, you can't go to the movie,"

you know, that's a big warning sign.

Katrina, you must take steps so you don't live any more in fear.

Do not give him the power.

- OK. - He's the only one

who can make you the victim.

- If you don't let him, you're not, right? - That's right.

Thank you for coming on today. You're very brave.

The Ask E. Jean philosophy is to stop cowering.

Do not give the other person

the power to make you the victim.

And always press charges.

Always.

How are you doing?

Joe, how are you feeling?

The civil trial against former President Donald Trump,

accusing him of sexual assault and defamation,

got under way in New York City today.

Former Elle magazine columnist E. Jean Carroll

says Trump raped her in the dressing room of a Bergdorf Goodman

department store nearly 30 years ago.

Carroll is suing Trump for defamation after he called her case

a "complete con job",

said her accusation was a hoax and a lie.

She's also making a legal claim of battery itself

against Trump for the reported rape itself.

Nothing compares, in drama, to the trial.

The President issued to me 68 questions that I had to answer.

You know, every drug I've ever taken,

every doctor I've ever seen, every time I've ever been arrested.

Raise your right hand, please.

Do you swear to tell the truth,

the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

- I do. - Thank you.

Good morning, Ms Carroll. Thank you for being here.

- How do you do? - I'm OK.

My name is Alina Habba. I'm sure you know that.

I represent former President Donald Trump.

Have you ever been deposed?

- Never. - OK.

So, let's go over some ground rules.

First of all, you're under oath.

So, that means you must testify truthfully and honestly,

and accurately to the best of your ability.

Are you ready to start?

Is that a yes?

- That's a yes. Giddy up! - OK.

If women could see

what kind of questions

their fellow woman is asked

when she brings charges of rape

against a powerful man...

...it would stop a racehorse.

It is really quite stunning.

OK. I am going to switch

into the complaint.

Do you remember what the temperature was outside?

Yes.

Clear and cool-ish.

I was wearing a wool dress.

And he was wearing an overcoat.

What were you wearing - other than that jacket, that dress?

Tights, shoes.

Brassiere.

I want to say to you

and just put on the record that -

as a woman,

and although I'm an attorney -

I'm going to ask you some very uncomfortable questions

through this deposition, and I apologise in advance.

But how do you define "sex"?

Were you wearing underwear?

What about your handbag from that day?

- Did you wear a bra? - Yes.

Let's go through your education and your job history a little bit.

What is your highest level of education?

Where did you go to college?

Indiana University.

And what was your first job?

Approximately how much money were you making at that point?

What year did they stop taking your article ideas?

Are you taking any medications or drugs

- that may impact your ability to recall events? - Zero.

Are you aware of any physical or mental condition

- that would impact your ability to recall events? - No.

Have you ever had acting classes?

SHE SCOFFS No.

Did you ever consider coming forward

with your account prior to #MeToo?

Never.

Why not?

Because women who have been raped

are looked at in this society as less.

Every woman who admits to being attacked

has to answer that question -

"Why didn't you scream?

"Why didn't you come forward when you did?

"Why didn't you come forward before?"

And so, no, I didn't...

I didn't.

From the moment E. Jean Carroll first sat on the witness stand

as part of her civil battery and defamation lawsuit

against Donald Trump,

Trump's defence lawyers have made it clear

that their strategy here is to inject doubt and to undermine

E. Jean Carroll's account of how Trump allegedly raped her.

Look what happens to women

in New York who report a rape.

If they've had so much as a sip of alcohol,

the case will not be taken.

If you report a rape

and the man is actually brought in and questioned,

the chances of him being convicted of that rape

are 0.05.

So, that's why women don't come forward.

That's why we're trying to change it now.

Now, this is why we're speaking out.

OK. Let's go back to the day at Bergdorf's.

Just walk me through when the first time you noticed

the defendant on the date in question was.

This is during the years I'm doing the daily Ask E. Jean TV show.

I'm going out the revolving door

and one of New York's most famous men

is coming in the revolving door.

He held up his hand as I was coming out, so I stopped.

And he came in. He said,

"Hey, you're that advice lady."

I say, "Hey, you're that real estate tycoon."

What happened after he went through the revolving door?

"Come advise me," says the man.

"I've got to buy a present."

"Oh!" I say, charmed.

"For whom?"

"A girl," he says.

What did you say?

I was delighted.

Why were you delighted?

I'm an advice columnist.

This is my duty.

It was a New York scene

with Donald Trump asking me

to help advise him on getting a present.

"How old are you?" says the man.

My reply is, "52."

"You're so old," he says, laughing.

And then what happened?

I said, "Handbags."

"Handbags. That would be perfect."

He was going to have no part of the handbags.

So, I said, "Hats. You can't go wrong with a hat."

So, we went to the hats.

It's about this point,

he looks across the store in the direction of the escalator

and says, "Lingerie!"

How do you know that?

Because he said, "I know. Lingerie."

I want people to understand that, in the world at large,

you were more famous than he was.

You were on TV. You had a column.

You were well-known.

- We now know he just failed upwards. - Mm.

He was... He was just a guy.

He was not even

an important guy.

HE recognised YOU at the store.

"You're the advice lady."

You didn't even think about it, though.

You said, "Go to the police."

Yeah. It wasn't because it was Donald Trump.

- Why did you even think of that? - No, but that's the important thing.

It wasn't about him.

Everybody thinks, "Oh, he's the President. Oh, he's Donald Trump."

No, he was a man

with a bad comb-over

who hurt my friend.

- At that point, did you leave the ground floor? - Yes.

So, what happens next?

On the left, there's a counter.

And there was nobody there.

And on the counter was a body suit,

see-through with a little bit of lace on it.

He said, "Go put this on."

I said, "YOU put it on.

"It's your colour."

He threw it back at me and he said, "Go put this on."

I tossed it back to him and said,

"It goes with your eyes."

Did he catch it?

Yeah, he caught it like this.

This was banter.

We're going back and forth.

He's saying, "Put this on."

I'm saying, "You put it on." He says...

I thought it was...

Um...

Er...

An enjoyable repartee.

What happened next?

He said, "Let's go put this on."

And I started laughing

because I'm thinking to myself...

"This is hilarious. I'm going to make him put it on over his pants."

That's my plan.

And then, after I make him put it on over his pants,

I'm going to have a story

that I can tell my friends at dinner.

Did you think Donald Trump would

- put the piece of lingerie over his pants? - I did.

Did he indicate that to you?

He was very different.

He was not the former President at the time.

He was pretty free-wheeling.

So, what happened after he gestured, with his hand,

for you to go in the dressing room?

It's all one action.

I stepped into the room.

The door was banged, closed,

and he pushed me up against the wall

so hard that I banged my head.

- Did it hurt? - It jolted me.

And then he pushed me back again.

Now, I understood that it was...

This is...

This is a battle.

And he pulled down my tights.

Did you scream?

No.

Did you push him?

- Yes. - Where?

I had my purse in this hand,

- And I tried to get my arms... - Which hand?

Right hand.

And I tried to get my arms up, to push him back, to push him back.

The problem was, I couldn't get my knee up

because the pantyhose had been taken down.

And then I felt his fingers...

...rummaging around my vagina...

...and this huge weight against me.

At one point, I remember thinking,

"It's Donald Trump. "What the heck is going on?"

And, um...

...then I felt his penis inside me.

How long did that last?

Very short time.

Approximately how long, do you think?

I could... Very brief. It was...

Er...

Very brief.

Did you say anything?

I was so shocked, I was laughing.

Why were you laughing?

Trying to recapture the camaraderie we had

and the sort of the feeling of a lark - "We're on a lark.

"We're having an adventure. This is a lark."

Trying to recapture that

and take it out of the realm

where he had entered.

Trying to reduce...

...any eroticism about it.

Was it erotic?

Not to me.

I managed to get my knee up and push off, and get him out.

I went out the door and...

...went away.

Did you feel like he was trying to hurt your head?

No. No.

No, he was not trying to hurt me.

He was trying to rape me.

When I came forward about the President,

people started to tell me their stories.

There are literally hundreds of messages from women.

Like, you know, I'm engaging, right now, on Twitter

with a woman whose husband raped her repeatedly,

tried to poison their kids.

You know, that's scary.

That's a scary guy.

And then she went to the detectives

two days ago and filed charges.

In a way, it's just her telling me her story gave her strength.

That is... That's what it's about.

I've talked to most of the other Trump accusers,

and every single person I've talked to

who's accused Donald Trump of sexual assault

has been threatened violently.

Many of the women lost jobs,

lost family members over this.

So, these are all very brave women.

I am, like, the biggest chicken of all of them, so...

You lost your job.

Oh, yeah. I lost my job.

27 years of writing the Ask E. Jean column.

Something I loved to do.

I get up in the morning, I loved being an advice columnist!

Loved it.

I thought they were calling to invite me to the Christmas party.

I'm like, "Ooh, I wonder what date it is.

"What am I going to wear?" You know?

And they say, "E. Jean, we won't be renewing your contract this year."

And I said, "Oh, all right. Why?"

And she said, "Because we don't have the pages."

Anybody in publishing knows that's, like, bullshit.

A women's magazine fires a woman for standing up to a powerful man?

Not...

As we say in the fashion world,

"Not a good look."

Boom! Elle fired me.

I crawled off the muck heap

and began writing for The Atlantic.

We drove up to Buffalo to interview

one of the Trump accusers.

Well, that made it, didn't it? OK.

I'm trying to reach a key corroborator,

and I've been messaging her for three days.

We're having a little bit of a struggle

getting corroborators to go on the record.

When you read a report that the woman who accuses the man

has anonymous people's support, it just...

It's weak. It's weak.

It means so much to the believability of the story,

and also, it is armour against the Trump Administration.

When I came forward, my two friends who I told,

they're both journalists.

They knew... They knew the game.

You know, they're more experienced in journalism than I am.

THEY did not want to go on the record.

They did not want to go on the record.

Two experienced journalists, because

those two knew what was going to hit them.

It's been a very emotional experience

because, from the time your story came out in New York Magazine,

you called me about six times a day.

"So-and-so is going to call you to fact check.

"So-and-so is going to call you to fact check."

And I would say, "I will fact check, but anonymously."

I remember convincing you to come with your name.

At the end of that meal,

you had not agreed.

It was such an important decision.

I wanted to talk to my family about it.

You wanted to talk to your family.

And they did not want me to be public.

- They did not want you to go on the record... - No.

...because you were viciously attacked.

So, you went to your family, you discussed it and what happened?

- Then I found out you dedicated your book to me. - Oh!

Oh!

Yeah.

Yeah.

It worked.

You're my best friend.

We are best friends.

How long were you friends with Ms Birnbach prior to the attack?

Hmm...

We met in '90, or '89.

So, four or five years.

Was she your closest friend at the time?

- No. - Who was your closest friend at the time?

Carol was, probably.

- Carol Martin? - Yeah.

What did you do the day following the attack?

Well, the next day, I certainly remember the pain in my head.

Um...

Then, went to work.

Did you tell anybody at work what had happened?

Yes, I told Carol Martin.

We both did our shows in the same studio.

We met backstage. I said, "I've got to talk to you."

And she said, "Let's talk tonight."

So, we met at her house later.

It was strange because I promised I would never tell anybody else.

The first thing I do is see Carol Martin at work,

and I had to tell her.

And what did Ms Martin say to you?

She said, "Tell no-one."

"He's got 200 lawyers.

"He'll bury you."

The next day, I go to work. I see you.

- And... - I melt!

I needed a hug.

I needed somebody to say, "It'll be OK."

Because Lisa's like, "You're going to the police."

Lisa's about business. She is about... Yeah.

But I think both of our responses were fine.

But I just remember the first thing I said -

"Are you OK?" Because if you'd have

raised your shirt up and you had scratches or something,

that would have been another thing altogether,

but you seemed like you were handling your business,

which is what I knew you to do,

but I think you were ashamed.

- And... - And then you testified in the second trial.

- Yeah. - I never doubted for a second.

Of course Carol Martin testified!

That's what Carol Martin does.

Carol Martin stands up for her friends.

Carol Martin doesn't let down anybody. Of course.

She's Carol fucking Martin!

There!

They were so mean. They were so mean.

So, I felt scarred, you know, from that experience,

because I've never been challenged that way,

sitting there. That's why I tell you when you don't accept it that much,

but I don't know how you sat there for four days or whatever it was,

straight on with that thing.

There was some darkness coming in.

There were some things I think we confronted in that courtroom.

Listen, me and Lisa, we know our role.

We knew that we were there in truth,

and we were there in the beginning.

Cheers, cheers.

- Top it off. Yes. - To Carol Martin.

Well, I'll take it. OK.

To E. Jeanie!

Whoever the fuck would have thought?

I mean, for real, for real.

You got divorced, then you were single for a while.

- Yes. - Did you date?

How often did you date?

How many men did you date?

There's such a gorgeous array of chaps. Let me think.

New York had a very entertaining social life.

In the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s,

the great directors, the great musicians,

they would go to Elaine's at night.

I frequented Elaine's on Thursday nights.

That was writers' night.

One Thursday night, I was, as usual, at Elaine's.

I was sitting at the regulars' table

when JJ, the big-time New York anchorman, comes in.

The night. A different rhythm, a different pulse.

He was one of the prettiest and most accomplished men in Manhattan.

After sundown, there are many people

who get it all and who get it on.

He pushed back his chair at one end of the lanes,

and I pushed back my chair at the other end of the lanes,

and we looked at one another.

Well, ladies, that was it.

It!

This is P2.

It's a blown-up version.

It was produced by your attorney.

Yes.

- Here. - Thank you.

That's P2.

Do you recognise yourself in this picture?

Yes.

You have, in front of you,

a black and white photograph that we've marked as DJT23.

I think that's her big claim to fame.

You know, that she shook my hand at some celebrity event.

So... So, the answer to my question is yes.

That after you made the statement,

you became aware that there was a photo of you

with Ms Carroll in a receiving line.

- Correct? - At some point... - OK.

...I saw there was a photo on a receiving line.

- Yes. - OK. When exactly was this picture taken?

I think it was when I was a writer at Saturday Night Live.

What year was that?

1987.

When you said that Ms Carroll

was not your type

you meant that she was not your type physically, right?

Uh...

I saw her in a picture.

I didn't know what she looked like.

And I said it, and I say it with as much respect as I can,

but she is not my type.

Can you identify, for me, who else is in this picture with you?

Yes, my ex-husband, John Johnson,

Ivana Trump,

and Donald Trump.

It's...

I guess her husband,

John Johnson, who...

...was an anchor...

...for ABC.

Nice guy, I thought.

I mean, I don't know him,

but I thought he was pretty good at what he did.

I don't even know who the woman...

Let's see. I don't know who...

It's Marla.

That's Marla. Yeah, that's... That's my wife.

Here.

Oh...

Oh, I see. Who is that? Who's this?

And the person, the woman on the right is your then-wife, Ivana?

I don't know. This was the picture.

I assume that's John Johnson.

Is that Carroll?

Because it's very blurry.

I take it the three women you've married are all your type?

Yeah.

So, who was your last significant

relationship that you remember?

John Johnson.

Who was the last man you dated that you recall?

I don't remember his name.

That's how significant it was.

Yes, funky listener, freedom

is the main theme of my life.

I'm a born vagabond,

an adventurer, a fool.

And somehow I just could

never decide to experience lasting love.

In New York, there's a taxi,

and the light is on.

It means it's available and wants to meet people.

I didn't have that. My light was gone.

It's not for lack of trying.

I wanted to meet people. I just...

The music had stopped.

Why do you think the music had stopped?

Well, looking back on it...

It may have been what happened at Bergdorf's.

That's it.

I've never had sex with anybody ever again.

- They're very happy. - How do you feel? How do you feel?

SHOUTING AND APPLAUSE

- Thank you. - The whole time...

You guys are so brave and beautiful. Thank you.

Can you just give us a little room?

What do you feel? How do you feel?

It didn't take the jury long at all

to find former President Donald Trump liable

for sexual assault and defamation.

They awarded $5 million in damages to the accuser.

The jury returned a total verdict of $5 million

against Donald Trump for the assault

and Donald Trump's lies about the assault.

Yesterday was the happiest day of my life.

- What was the feeling? - Because the former President had...

...smeared me...

...so badly that it wasn't

until yesterday I got back up on my feet and felt,

"My name is back."

I want to know you're not going into journalist mode. I see...

I'm going into journalist mode.

I know when you go into journalist mode.

What would happen if you didn't have

Carol Martin and Lisa Birnbach?

You know, from the very first moment we met,

when you told me your story,

there was a lot of evidence

that corroborated and confirmed your story.

I was like, "OK, that's a good case."

And honestly, no-one else thought so.

Well, you won the case

when you showed him the photograph,

and he recognised me, right off the bat,

- as, "That's my wife." - Marla.

- "That's Marla." - You did look kind of similar.

At the time, we did resemble one another.

But here's the thing.

We had to put me on the stand

and look fuckable.

- Yeah. - That was the problem.

- How... - It wasn't a problem.

The jury had no trouble believing that.

Apparently not. And that we were...

I was very worried about that.

And you showed that picture of me from '96 every chance.

Yeah.

With the one eating the dumplings or whatever.

I couldn't wait for the guy to say, "Not my type."

It's the best thing he ever said.

It... Well...

Because it... It was the capstone

of the defamatory campaign.

APPLAUSE DROWNS SPEECH

I want to ask you about

a significant verdict that was reached yesterday.

I know this is something you want to weigh in on as well.

This woman said I met her at the front door of Bergdorf Goodman

which I rarely go into, other than for a couple of charities,

and, a few minutes later, we end up in a room, a dressing room.

What kind of a woman meets somebody and brings them up,

and within minutes you're

playing hanky panky in a dressing room?

OK?

Her cat was named Vagina.

The judge wasn't allowed to put that in. All of these things...

But with her, they can put in anything.

- She's a whack job. - Mr President...

LAUGHTER

When I accused Donald Trump

of sexual assault,

I had no idea what I was in for.

The avalanche of slime has been unbelievable.

"You're full of shit. You are not Trump's type."

Trump was attracted to an older woman?

- I doubt that. - "You're just looking for a payday."

"Show the fucking proof of sexual abuse, you lying twat."

- It raises doubt. - "Fucking piece of shit."

I've never seen somebody so happy to have allegedly been raped.

"Fuck off and die, you nasty cut. What a pathetic bitch you are."

"It must really suck to be you."

There is no real consequence for this woman.

"My friend said he wants to kill you and I cannot stop him.

"Rest in peace, cunt."

"Your address is out there."

"Liberal bitch!"

My address.

You know, at first it was, like, hundreds a day.

Then it became thousands a day.

We were in a scary situation here.

I think of that every morning when I wake up.

Will I make it through the day? Every morning.

Well, now we have cameras up...

...and alarm systems.

Three days ago, we filed a proposed amendment complaint for Carroll 1.

We sought new damages

for Trump's vile comments on CNN

and his foul rants on Truth Social.

So, the second trial was really mostly about all the vile,

horrible, disgusting things people have been saying

to you since then, and it was hard for anyone to go through it.

- I mean, it was just hard. - Rough. 60 or 70 a minute,

you know, "Cunt, cunt, cunt,"

- you know. Oh, just... - "I'm going to rape you."

"I'm going to murder you."

- Just, uh... - I mean, they're just horrific.

There's some... There's some scary stuff out there.

As if things could not get any worse for Trump legally,

tonight, Ms Carroll is seeking a, quote,

"Very substantial additional amount

"of damages in response to Donald Trump's comments on CNN."

The filing says, tonight, that she should be awarded

these damages to, quote, "punish Trump,

"to deter him from engaging in further defamation

"and to deter others from doing the same."

Would you raise your right hand, please?

Do you swear or affirm that the testimony

you're about to give is the truth,

the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

- I do. - Thank you. You may proceed, Counsel.

I was looking at photos of me from the first trial,

the second trial. The difference is amazing.

The bags under my eyes now are much more.

My whole face is...

I look very different in the eight months.

You have two lawsuits

against former President Donald Trump, is that correct?

Yes.

It really had a toll. It really had a toll.

We were prepping

for the second trial and giving testimony,

and Robbie...

...very smartly...

said, "The man you have not seen

"in 30 years is going to be in that courtroom."

I just had a total breakdown.

I couldn't talk.

I lost my language.

Nothing came into my brain.

And I'm feeling...

...the load is coming down on me to such an extent

that I didn't think I would ever talk again,

or ever leave that room or...

OK. You mentioned that you worked hard

to push the memories away with respect to

the alleged incident with Donald Trump.

How have you worked to push the memories away?

It's...

...an ongoing...

...project.

It's an underlying...

...theme...

...of my life. It...

A vision or a...

A word or a...

An image,

or a piece of tape,

or just a flash...

...of a photo will occur in my mind...

...and I will bat it away.

And if it comes back, I...

I have to consciously shove it away.

How many instances can you recall where this has happened?

It...

It's difficult to describe.

It's like an underlying condition of my life.

So, as you sit here today,

you can't describe to me what that was,

what you were thinking about?

Objection to form. You can answer.

I can...

...describe to you AN episode.

Sure. Let's start there.

It was

October 7th, 2016.

My brothers and sisters and I

were gathered at my mother's deathbed...

...and it was a very joyful time

because we were recalling the highlights of my mother's life,

and she was enjoying herself, watching home movies.

And our phones went off,

the TV went off,

and the Access Hollywood tape hit.

Use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her.

My brain was taken over

with images of

Donald Trump...

...pressing his mouth against mine.

Donald Trump pushing me.

Donald Trump raping me

in the dressing room.

I haven't gotten an answer.

I've gotten a lot of testimony,

but not much of an answer.

What is the image?

You said it's sometimes a photograph.

What's the photograph of?

The image of being downstairs looking at hats.

An image of riding an escalator.

Going into the dressing room.

That right there...

The going into the dressing room is one of the worst.

Why is it one of the worst?

When that image comes up

I feel like just an idiot.

And then I feel bad...

...because I wasn't thinking.

I felt guilty because I should have seen a sign.

I felt guilty as a bad example to women.

I felt guilty because I went into the dressing room,

guilty that I was being a bad...

I wasn't smart, so I was... I felt guilty.

I still feel guilty.

Why do you still feel guilty?

I know I'm not supposed to feel this way,

but I feel it's my fault.

One minute, you're a daisy fresh, smart aleck,

boisterous, bold, reckless,

heedless girl

with remarkable reserves of power.

And ten minutes later,

after you've been pulled into an alley,

pushed down into a back seat,

thrown to the ground,

you're a damaged package of female fears.

Susan, I admire you more than I can say for coming on today, honey.

Now, I don't want to get into the rape

because, you know, I just...

I just can't handle it today.

What I want to hear is what happened to you afterwards.

After the rape. Actually, during the rape,

I said to him, why are you doing this?

And he said, I had no right

to complain about any of it because it was all my fault.

E. JEAN GASPS

And you believed it? You believed it?

Totally believed it.

What is it about you growing up

and being this wonderful girl,

so powerful, so unafraid of everything -

why, suddenly, just in this,

this five minutes of this horrible thing,

- why did you think it was your fault? - I don't know,

I just, you know,

I thought I could have did something.

You know, I thought maybe I didn't make it clear enough.

- So, you decided not to prosecute? - Right.

My darlings, the woman who best survives a rape

is a woman who doesn't perpetuate and worsen her misery

by adding guilt to it.

You can see I'm struggling through this.

It's very hard for me.

So call. We're live, sweetie pie, 1-800-988-Talk.

Did you ever seek professional help in your entire life?

No.

It... To dwell on something

that is horrendous...

...makes the period that you're dwelling on it also horrendous.

I just don't like the dwelling and the talking about, um...

I was born in 1943.

We are the chin-up, move-it-on, grin-and-bear-it generation.

We didn't complain.

It would never occur to me.

We actually smiled about it and moved on.

That's how we handle things.

Yes, my darling doodle bangers.

Here's the Ask E. Jean control room.

- Hi, Cheryl. - Hi. - Who are you talking to,

- Cheryl? - I don't know. Who's this?

Sarah runs the chyron.

- The chyron are the words that come in under the pictures. - Hi.

And look here. Renata is in charge of this show.

- Hello. - Oh. Looky here. What is...?

Oh! These are our guests.

Oh. They're horrified.

Maybe... I can't hear you, Renata. I can't...

Get into the studio, please.

We have a show to do. Come on. We have people on the phone.

- All right. - Get in the studio. Do the show.

Our beautiful cameraman. Hi, Renata.

- Hi, Jean. - Honey, I'm so glad that

our audience got to see you at last.

- Honey, honey. - What? - We have Pete on the phone.

Oh, Pete. Pete, honey, are you there?

Did you ever speak

to your general practitioner about the fact that you had no sex drive?

I did have a sex drive.

I always liked sex.

Sex is one of the great, delicious things. I had...

...shut down...

...the pathway...

...to meeting a partner.

I wish perhaps I had seen a therapist,

but I didn't,

and I'm now grappling with things that may have...

...actually have hurt me.

And I'm getting a new view of life.

For years, I thought of myself as an invincible old lady,

and if I've learned anything is

I have to start admitting...

...that I have suffered.

But you didn't stay away from writing

about it to the general public, is that correct?

That's my form of therapy. I write.

The second civil trial between Donald Trump

and writer E. Jean Carroll is under way.

The former President appeared in court earlier today.

This trial is just about damages.

All the jury is deciding

is how much more he owes E. Jean Carroll

In addition to the $5 million she's already been awarded

at that first trial.

He didn't even come to the first trial

because that was only about sexual assault.

He didn't care about that.

But this trial was about money -

and, boy, did he show up.

Throughout the trial, Trump continued

to deny Carroll's allegations against him,

prompting a wave of criticism and threats against the writer.

Trump's attorney, Alina Habba,

arguing Trump could not control what people wrote online,

and that Carroll had actually been elevated

because of Trump's statements.

Ms Carroll, do you think this trial

is inadvertently helping Trump's political campaign?

It was terrible.

I had to stand up,

walk to the witness box,

turn around, hold up my hand...

...and swear I was going to tell the truth.

And there's Donald Trump

sitting 35 feet away from me.

I was afraid I wouldn't be able to talk

because that's what happened to me in prep.

I just thought I was in deep shit.

Deep.

I was like this.

It was horrible.

And that was the moment.

Robbie Kaplan was sitting here.

She took me by the little hand

and she said, "Good morning, Ms Carroll.

"Can you please spell your name for the jury?"

And I don't know what happened.

I looked out. There he was.

And he was exactly zero.

He did not exist.

One of the things

that kept being hammered over and over again by Shawn Crowley,

the lawyer for E. Jean Carroll, who delivered that statement,

is that she wanted the jury

to consider when they are thinking about punitive damages,

how much will it take to make it stop?

Because as recently as this morning, Ms Crowley noted,

Donald Trump had defamed her client again.

We return.

We went to the court

and the judge said,

"The jury has a verdict."

And that's...

Boy, that's when you have to stand there and take it.

It was up in the air.

I've got Robbie on this side and Shawn on this side.

Our hands are...

...squeezing each other,

and the forewoman read out...

...the verdict.

The big story on Action News tonight is breaking news.

A verdict has been reached in the defamation

damages trial against former President Donald Trump.

What we just witnessed right behind us

as she left with her legal team is that she is elated.

Former President ordered to pay $83.3 million in damages.

Money, money, money, money.

$83 million to stop Mr Trump from getting in front of cameras,

from making posts on Truth Social,

as it relates to Ms E. Jean Carroll at all.

- If he had just shut his mouth... - Yep.

...he'd have been dealing with $5 million.

For perspective, OJ Simpson only had to pay $33 million

for a double murder.

This win for E. Jean Carroll marked a momentous day

for victims of sexual abuse everywhere.

Trump will, for the first time,

face legal accountability for his treatment of women.

We're fighting not really, Rachel, for me.

It's now about fighting for all women.

Women are fighters.

Bad things still happen to women.

Yeah.

But women are no longer damsels.

Great.

Wow. You've been on camera.

You're a pro.

Give me a big smile. Yes.

The 10,000-year-old damsel in distress story is dead.

It's not the '50s any more, boys.

"Dear Ms Carroll, thank you for standing up to Trump.

"I am your age, and this means a lot

"to our generation,

"which endured abuse silently."

"Congratulations on the success.

"You have gained a victory for all women.

"Please let me know if there are steps

"that I and others can take to continue your wonderful efforts."

There's the crux.

There is the crux.

That is what we're facing right now.

We have to realise that this win has to go on.

After the win, it has just taken weeks and weeks

to get back to my human beingness...

...which completely flew the coop.

I don't know where my human beingness was

because I was an entity.

I was a thing that won $83 million.

I don't know what that is. What the...?

You see how I live.

I am thinking of getting a toaster.

Oh, my God.

God!

Oh, hello.

This looks really good.

- Wow. - Oh, my God, that's insane. - We look like we're...

Yes. Oh! Oh, my God, look at you.

We look just like we called each other and matched.

The trial was a very big deal.

In a dark moment

when people in America

are shredding their nerves

in the darkness of what's going on.

And here comes this huge attorney called Robbie Kaplan,

who stands five foot one.

A giant who beats Donald Trump twice,

then makes him pay,

yes, $83 million.

- So, how are you feeling? - I feel fabulous.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

I feel very, very lucky.

I'm overwhelmed every day with happiness.

Just for being alive.

Swear to God.

What's your best advice

for women coming forward with their stories?

It's a very, very difficult decision to make.

Overpowering because I'm just a woman.

I am just an old woman.

I... It's...

This is really in honour of women

- everywhere. Everywhere. - Amazing.

- Thank you both so much. - Thank you very much.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

What made our case so strong was the amazing,

incredible, unbelievably courageous E. Jean Carroll...

...who had the guts to face him down twice, the second time

eye to eye, in person,

and tell a story

that no-one thought anyone would believe

until we got 18 different jurors who believed it unanimously twice.

♪ If you feel it then let's go

♪ To a place where we belong

♪ We'll find the strength to carry on

♪ Open our hearts Set our minds at ease

♪ To have each other is the hope we need... ♪

We're serious women.

And a serious woman is an extremely powerful entity.

The thing is never to despair.

Never despair.

♪ You're going to rise

♪ Rise

♪ Keep on rising

♪ Rise, rise, rise... ♪

Adios, my dear fopdoodles.

Make a promise tonight to take yourself,

for better or worse.

Take pride in your nonconformity.

That's where your power comes.

And remember what I always say, honey.

Fate loves the fearless.