Original subtitles

Primary objective of all our activities remains self-awakening and social

awakening. So if you are also interested to be the part of our team, then you can

contact us on the given contact number.

Upanishads. They are the core text of Vedanta, which means sitting near,

implying, sitting near a teacher to get knowledge.

There are 108 Upanishads.

and Mandukya Upanishad is one of them.

The theme of Mandukya Upanishad is an exposition of Mystic Cerebral Om

with a view of training the mind in meditation for the purpose of achieving

freedom gradually so that individual soul is attuned to ultimate reality.

Who am I? Am I a physical character?

Emotional character?

Intellectual character?

Or something very evil?

Where have I come from?

Where am I going?

These are all the questions that open doors to spiritual discovery.

We often get so much caught up in... Lights.

Lights, lights, lights.

...to identify with our possessions, our jobs, our roles in relationships.

We unconsciously think, I have a job, I'm good because I have a good house.

But what happens when we lose these things? We lose our imaginary identity

and we no longer know who we really are.

So, let us embark on this journey of revealing our true identity according to

Madhukya Upanishad. Switch off, switch off. So, now I request Swamiji, Swamiji

Saro Priyanandaji Maharaj to come forward and enlighten us with the

thoughts on our original identity.

Good evening and I'm back again.

This time with a very different subject.

The subject today is this most ancient of questions.

Who am I?

And we will investigate this subject, this question in the light of

the Upanishads this evening and tomorrow again at the same time.

So this is the question we will be looking at.

Vedanta is basically the teachings of the Upanishads Vedanta Nama Upanishad

Pramanam the definition of Vedanta is the philosophy based on the teachings of

the Upanishads is Vedanta I think most of you are familiar to some extent with

Vedanta and the Upanishads the Upanishads present the highest

philosophical teachings of the Vedas they are among the most ancient texts

known to mankind

There is a long list of Upanishads.

In fact, in one of the Upanishads called Muktika Upanishad, we find a list of

108 Upanishads.

But among all of these Upanishads, there are some 10 or 11

major, within quotes, major Upanishads. Major, why major?

Because Adi Shankaracharya, some 1200 or 1300 years ago, chose these Upanishads

to write his commentaries, Bhashyam on these Upanishads. And these Upanishads

basically have become the central texts of Vedanta. So the Vedanta movement you

see all over the world, these Upanishads have become the source texts.

Shankaracharya interpreted these Upanishads in a non-dualistic fashion.

So his teaching is called Advaita Vedanta.

That is the context in which we will be discussing all this today.

Among all the Upanishads, especially among these major Upanishads,

there is one Upanishad which is regarded, which is the smallest of all

the Upanishads and also regarded as the toughest and that is called the Mandukya

Upanishad. There is a saying that Mumukshunam Vimuktai.

For the liberation of those who want spiritual enlightenment, those who want

mukti.

For them, the Mandukya Upanishad alone is sufficient.

So if you read this Upanishad and you are lucky enough to understand what it

means and realize what it means as a living reality in your own life, you are

free. You don't need anything else.

So for liberation, the Mandukya itself is sufficient.

For for those who want liberation for those who want moksha or spiritual

enlightenment It is the smallest Upanishad The only 12 mantras are there

in this Upanishad it come it is found in the Atharva Veda You all know that there

are four Vedas Rig Veda, Yajur Veda, Sama Veda and Atharva Veda In the

Atharva Veda you find this Upanishad among other Upanishads you find this

Mandukya Upanishad Only 12 mantras So it is like a small chili which is very hot.

Sometimes in Bengali they say dhani longka.

A small chili which is very hot.

In this Mandukya Upanishad, the most important mantra, the central mantra,

central text is what you have in your hands now, the handout. The seventh

mantra. The seventh mantra of the Mandukya Upanishad.

This is in fact the core mantra of the entire Upanishad of these twelve

mantras. And this gives a direct answer, the highest possible answer that you can

find in our scriptures, in Vedanta. And I have not found any more sophisticated,

more profound answer in any of the literatures of the world religions or

philosophies which I have come across at least. At least I have not found myself,

nor has anybody reported anything more profound than this.

So when I was given an opportunity to talk to you, I decided,

what the heck?

Let me go for the toughest text.

Let us see what happens. We will take it up as a challenge. Normally we do not

use this in a general gathering. It is usually reserved for those who have

studied Vedanta for a long time and only then you take up this one.

But pay attention and I think we will all derive a great deal of benefit from

today's lecture and tomorrow's also.

Tomorrow I will go further, little deeper into this text.

The Mandukya Upanishad was commented upon by Goudapada Acharya.

Goudapada Acharya is the guru of Shankaracharya's guru.

So, Goudapada Acharya's disciple was Govindapada and Govindapada's disciple

was Shankaracharya, Adi Shankaracharya. So, in Uttarakhand in Himalayas they say

guru or dada guru, grandfather like that grand guru. So, Shankara's guru's guru

was Goudapada Acharya and he wrote

verses on the Mandukya Upanishad. These verses are called Mandukya Karika. So,

nowadays when you look at the Mandukya Upanishad, you usually find them in a

book called Mandukya Karika. It includes the Mandukya Upanishad plus Goudapada

Acharya's commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad in the form of verses called

Karika plus Shankaracharya's commentary in prose,

in Sanskrit prose.

on the original Upanishad as well as the Karikas of Gaudapada Acharya. So, this

is the book Mandukya Karika. It has four chapters.

The first chapter incorporates the Mandukya Upanishad, the original text as

well as certain commentaries given by Gaudapada Acharya.

And this mantra is found in the first chapter in the Upanishad itself. It is

the seventh mantra.

We will come back to this at the end of the talk.

When I learned communication long way back before I joined the order, my

communication teacher told me you should start all talks with a story.

So, I'll start this talk with a story.

About 10 years ago in the Himalayas, in the high Himalayas in Gangotri, I was

staying there for about a month, just like a traditional monk, no ashrama, no

school, college, Ramakrishna mission, nothing, just staying in a log cabin.

begging for my food in anna kshetra and meditating and studying.

And log cabin means not like this.

There is no electricity, no furniture, nothing.

Just, you know, rajai, kambal.

On the ground there is a blanket and two or three blankets you can put on

yourself.

And so dark in there at this time because you cannot go out. It is very

cold and dark outside.

Nowadays they have electricity.

But nowadays they even have mobile phones.

Put up a tower nearby so you can you get a signal there.

I saw that happening by the way anyhow At that time it was so dark You know at

this time in the in the cabin it would be so dark that if I Waved my eyes to

wave my hands before my eyes and I could not make out whether my eyes are open or

closed You cannot see anything only sometimes you can see sparks jumping out

of your woolen clothes in static electricity From the cumble to your

sweater and but anyway, so that was the situation one day after Bhiksha, I was

taking a walk with some of the monks there with whom I had made friends.

And this monk, he told me a story. So you can see the setting in the Himalayan

through the forest tracks.

Deodar trees are there, pine trees also. And you go through that. You're taking a

walk around 4.30 or 5.

Dinner is at 4 o'clock.

Because afterwards, it's too dark afterwards.

And this monk told me a story.

The story goes like this.

Raja Janak, Janak Raja, one day he was asleep, very peacefully sleeping

and suddenly the sentry came running and said, I will use mixture of Hindi and

English but I will translate into English also because the story was told

to me in Hindi.

Maharaj ji, get up, get up, what happened? The enemy has attacked, we

must fight a war.

So, Janak Raja immediately got up, summoned his generals and his soldiers

and he went off to battle. Put on his armor and sword and everything, took his

sword and everything and went off to battle.

And there was a fierce battle in which Janak Raja was defeated.

He was wounded, he was captured by the enemy, dragged before the enemy king.

And the enemy king said, tumara rajya humara rajya hai.

I have captured your kingdom. Now, I will not kill you because you are a

king. I will exile you. You get out of this kingdom. It is mine now.

What could poor Janak Raja do?

He was tired and exhausted and bleeding and depressed.

Somehow he started walking and people in what was his own capital earlier, they

refused to give him water or food because they were afraid.

They said the new king is very cruel. If they know we have helped you, he will

punish us.

After walking for two days, he came to the border of his kingdom.

Then he crossed the border to the next kingdom and he found food was being

served to poor people, beggars.

So, there was a long line and I think they were serving rice or khichdi or

something and a big honda was there.

So, he joined that line and as he advanced in the queue when he came up to

the place where it was being served at that time it was finished no more food

and he could not take it anymore you know he was feeling terribly depressed

and tired and exhausted and in pain and the person who was giving food he said

just this torch which is lying at the bottom of the honda.

That is there, I will give it to you if you want it.

He said ok, give me that.

And he gave him a bowl filled that starch in there and gave it to him.

Before he could lift it trembling to his lips, a kite, cheel circling up there,

it dived and hit that bowl, knocked it also out of his hands and that bowl went

rolling in the dust and whatever was there was spilled in the dust and Janak

Raja could not take it anymore, you know he was.

So overcome with misery and sadness he fell down on the ground.

As he said.

Sanskrit.

Hindi. Not English.

So it means just the opposite.

And when he was crying.

Alas.

Suddenly he heard a voice.

Maharaj Ji. What happened?

Sir. And he woke up.

His chest pounding.

Covered in sweat. Sitting on the bed.

And the sentry has come.

Maharaj, you shouted.

What happened?

So it was a dream. The whole thing was a dream, a nightmare.

Nothing has happened.

But because Janak Raja was very, you know, he had a very analytical mind.

So he looked up and he said, O such, ya ye such.

Is that true or is this true?

Is the dream true or is this waking world, is it true?

Oh such, yes such.

Sentry was taken aback, what is this?

He called the minister.

Sir, what is wrong?

Oh such, yes such.

He called the queen.

The queen thought that old man, what has happened to you?

His wife came, what happened to you? Oh such, yes such.

There is only one thing he is saying. Oh such, yes such. Nobody could understand

this.

Next day in the morning in the market place, it is already increasing

problems.

People are talking hush-hush and Ashtavakra Muni, the great Gyani, he is

walking, he has come to the city and he heard this is what is happening.

Now, he was a Gyani, so he knew what has happened. He decided I will go and visit

Janak Raja and he went to the court and he asked Janak Raja, Janak Raja kaise

hain Maharaj Ji, how are you?

And Raja said, wo sach hai ye sach.

That is what he is doing all day sitting in the court surrounded by the queen and

the ministers and the generals and everything.

And I am sort of imagining this is not part of the story, but I am imagining

you know the officers coming with files please sign.

No work is getting done.

When he said this to Ashtavakra Muni same thing.

Now Ashtavakra Muni knows what he is referring to. So, he said Janak Raja.

When you were rolling in the dust, bleeding, tired, defeated, depressed,

crying on that ground.

What he is referring to only Janak Raja knows and he knows. Nobody else

understands. What is this defeat and all this?

At that time was all this there?

Your power, your wealth, your queen, your generals, your minister, all these

things were there or not?

Janak Raja said no.

None of this was there. Only defeat and depression and sadness and misery.

And now you are sitting here in the court.

Surrounded by your courtiers and all this power and wealth.

That defeat.

That depression. Those wounds.

That terrible situation.

Is it here?

The king said no. It is not here.

Then Ashtavakra Muni said.

Neither this is true nor that is true.

This was not there in that terrible dream.

And today you are in this situation. You are calling it a dream. That is not

here.

Then Janak Raja was shocked.

The next question which would come to all of us.

He is saying.

Is it nothing true then?

Then the Muni said.

On that battlefield, on that place where you are rolling in the dust, defeated,

crying.

Were you there or not?

Did you see that or not?

Yes, I was there. I saw that.

That may be false, but I have experienced it.

It may be false. I woke up and I say it is false, but I have experienced it.

Or either up, you are now sitting in the court. Are you sitting here and

experiencing this or not?

He says, yes, I am experiencing it.

Neither that is true, nor this is true, but you the witness of both situations.

You alone are the truth.

This is the story.

The rest of the lecture, we are going to struggle with this concept and try to

understand what is the meaning of this story.

The meaning of this story and the meaning of this mantra are exactly the

same. But we will see. We will try to understand it.

At least intellectually, let us get a grasp on what they are saying.

Whether you will be convinced or not, that comes later.

But understanding comes first.

What he is saying is, I, who am I? The ego.

You can put it this way.

It is a jumbo duster.

You can call it the knower also.

Knower.

Is it visible or it is too small?

Too small. Okay, I will write a little larger.

Now, you have the waker.

Janak Raja, when he was awake, you all, all of us, we are the waker

now. We are in the waking state, hopefully.

Some may be drifting off.

And this waker, what does he or she, what does he experience?

The world.

The waking world.

I am just giving this name.

The Sanskrit name would be Jagrat Prapancha.

So, the Sanskrit term is Prapancha.

In Hindi also we say Prapancha. Yes, a Prapancha.

The term comes from Pancha. Pancha means five. The idea was there are five

elements out of which the world is constructed.

Prapancha, Prakrishna in a Pancha by the.

elaboration or mixture of these five, the entire universe is constructed.

Anyhow, the general idea is prapancha. So, the waker sees this waking world

and when Janak Raja was dreaming or when we dream, he was the dreamer

and he sees a dream world and

there is another state which we all go

through. Where we are neither awake nor dreaming.

Absolutely in deep sleep.

No dreams are there. Even modern science accepts it.

Neuroscience also says that it's dreamless sleep.

One is REM sleep. You could talk about rapid eye movement sleep. And the other

one is dreamless sleep.

So this dreamless sleep, we can call it the sleeper. Not the railway sleeper.

This is sleeper. The one who is in deep sleep.

And we cannot say a sleep world.

We can say a sleep.

A sleep world would be sleep blankness. What do we experience in deep sleep?

Nothing. Just blankness. Even I am sleeping.

That kind of a thought also is there. No thought at all.

So we can call it a sleep blankness.

What this Upanishad tells you is that you are not the waker.

You are not the dreamer. You are not the sleeper.

What you are, the real you is a fourth, is the fourth

state which is called Turiyam or Turiya.

Now don't be scared about this term. Turiya simply means number four.

That's all.

Turiya means four.

Chaturtham. The mantra here does not use the word Turiyam. That word was

introduced later by Gaudapada Acharya in his commentaries.

but the word mantra uses the word if you will notice chaturtham fourth and

turiyam.

This is all that the mantra is trying to tell you, all that

Ashtavakra Muni was trying to tell Janak Raja that what you saw

the defeated Janak Raja in the world where he was defeated He was

expelled from his kingdom. He was suffering in the neighborhood kingdom

and lying on the ground and all the circumstances of that world, the dream

world. And he who was dreaming there.

Both are not real.

But there is a fourth one who was watching that.

Right now, you are the waker, I am the waker. This is not our real nature. But

there is a fourth one who is watching this waker and the waking state,

illumining both.

And similarly in dream state.

This is the basic idea.

I will explain it with the help of an example.

What is the reality?

The reality or the real you answer to this question is who am I?

According to this mantra is you are this Turiya the fourth.

It's like roll number one, roll number two, roll number three and roll number

four.

The Upanishad begins with this statement.

Who am I?

You have four aspects.

You have four aspects.

The Upanishad begins in the first mantra. The four aspects are these four.

Among these four aspects, three are false. One alone is real.

Three are false. One alone is real.

Now the interesting thing is, the Upanishad says this is real. This is who

you are. The answer to the question, who am I? But we are not aware of anything

like this.

If you talk about the waker and the waking world, we are aware of that.

This is what we know. What we are right now experiencing.

You are the waker. Mr. or Mrs. so and so or Miss so and so or Swami so and so

experiencing this classroom. This is the waker experiencing a waking world.

This is what this is.

And when I tonight I will go and sleep and dream, I have certain experiences. I

will be in that dream also.

Then I am the dreamer. I am experiencing a dream world.

And when I go into deep sleep, blankness, nothing, absolute blankness.

There you can call it the sleeper and experiencing a sleep blankness.

Remember, the sleeper, for example, in the sleep world, there is no

external world, no physical body, no mind, nothing, just blankness.

That is from a subjective point of view.

Be careful. This is your own experience.

This is not an objective experience. For example, somebody, I remember, once one

Swami was talking about it and he was saying in the deep sleep, which is

called the Sushupti, in deep sleep there is no experience of the world, there is

no body, no mind, only a blankness.

Then somebody in the audience asked, what do you mean there is no body and

mind? In the mosquito net, under that we can see the fellow is sleeping.

80 or 90 kilos, nicely snoring.

How come there is no body you are seeing?

from objectively, from your point of view, but you look at it from the

person's point of view, who is asking this question, who am I?

From his own experience, your own experience, in the deep sleep, daily we

experience this, that no experience of world, no experience of body, no

experience of mind also. Even the thought, I am sleeping, that's not

there. If you say, I am sleeping, then you are not sleeping.

It's not deep sleep.

So that state we all experience.

And apart from it, they talk about a turiyam or turiyam whichever, a fourth.

How are we to understand this? These three we can understand, but this one is

not very clear.

What is this one? Let us look at it this way.

Suppose we have an ornament made, say a bracelet

or a bangle and necklace.

and a ring.

Somebody tells you these are all golden ornaments, somebody tells you these are

just names and forms, the reality is the gold, the reality is the gold.

It is a golden bangle, golden necklace or golden ring, but the reality is not

the bangle necklace or ring, the real substance is gold and there is a

interesting story about this one.

Sethji whose business was not going well, he went to take some loan you know

girvi rakhna.

So, he took his Ganesha and put it in the pawn shop and he said you give me

some loan and the jeweler he weighed it and he said Ganeshji ka kya rate doge?

This is the rate, this is the rate at which I will purchase the Ganesh statue

or I will take I will give so much money for that and you know Ganesha's vahan is

there, the mouse, the chuha.

And the jeweller also weighed that and gave the same rate.

Seth ji was furious.

How is it possible?

Then the jeweller said.

I will I see it as gold.

So I am weighing the gold and giving you the rate of that.

So the gold is the reality the substance.

Now if somebody tells you.

A person who does not understand what gold is tells that person that it's not

a bangle. Bangle, necklace and ring are just the names and the forms and the

functions, you know.

Bangle is something you put here and it's called a bangle. Necklace is

something you put here. It's called a necklace.

Ring is something you put in your fingers. It's called a ring.

But the substance, the reality of all of them is gold only.

Now, suppose a person does not understand what gold is.

His idea will be that there is something from reality called gold apart from all

of this.

If he throws away all of this and start searching for gold, will he find it?

No, he will not find it. There is no gold apart from these.

But if he thinks this is gold, what will happen?

The moment somebody comes and melts the bangle down and makes a necklace out of

it, he thinks the bangle itself is the gold. When that goes away and is melted

down, what will he think?

Gold is gone.

Gold is gone.

He does not understand the new form which has come necklace is the same

gold. It is the same gold in another new form with a new name and a new function.

When that necklace is also melted and put into a ring, it is the same gold

with a new name, with a new form and a new function.

But the physical reality is the same.

Similarly, the idea here is,

the waker and the dreamer and the sleeper. The reality is that you are the

witness of all three states and you are in and through these states.

The idea is that that there is no fourth separate reality called Turiya.

It is the same reality which is now being called a waker in the waking

state. It is the same person.

Same reality, same consciousness which will be called a dreamer in the dream

state. It is the same reality which will be called the sleeper in the sleep

state.

What is the difference between these states?

Here, we are in a physical body with sense organs. We are interacting

with a physical world and this is the waking state. So, waking state, there is

a great preponderance of the physical body and interaction with the physical

world through the sense organs with the indriyas.

So, here the term they use is bahishchitta, extroverted consciousness,

consciousness which is flowing out into the world.

The dream world, they are very commonsensical, the Vedantins, they know

the dream world is simply constituted out of our experiences in the waking

state. So, when I go to sleep, whatever I have experienced in the waking state

throughout my life, those elements are taken together, made into a khichdi and

comes out as a dream.

There is a dream world which is constructed out of the mind. The

physical body is not active there. It's only when we wake up we realize the

physical body was sleeping.

But I went to Delhi and I did so many things there and came back and when I

woke up I was in IIT Kanpur.

But physically I did not go to Delhi.

That body was lying there under the mosquito net in the hostel house

wherever. So the dream world is entirely made of the mind.

So, there they say that the term they use is antar pragyam, where

consciousness is directed inwards, working only in the mind not externally

in the world.

And the sleeper, deep sleep, no experience is there except that

blankness. When we wake up, we say that I did not know anything, I slept like a

log of wood.

No external consciousness, no dreaming also, very peaceful sleep I had. That is

what we say when we wake up from deep sleep.

So, the deep sleep is a state of absolute blankness. And the term they

use in Vedanta is prajnana ghana. All these terms will come. Prajnana ghana

means a mass of consciousness.

Mass in the sense, there is nothing for consciousness to illumine.

There is nothing for consciousness to illumine. It just remains in blankness.

All the external world, the dreams, everything is pushed into a mass which

is not expressed, which is not experienced there.

In a potential state it is there. Why do you say it is in a potential state?

Because the next moment when you wake up, everything is back again. Here is

the IIT campus and your responsibilities are the same body and the same people

all around. So, everything is back again into your life.

So, it is in a sort of potential state, in a dream state.

So, all of these according to the Mandukya Upanishad, they are not the

reality. The reality is the consciousness in all of them.

What they are saying is this.

just like gold is apart from all of them and yet in and through all of them. How

is it apart from all of them?

When bangle goes and it is made into a necklace.

So, necklace is not a bangle.

Necklace is not a bangle.

Bangle is not a necklace, but both are gold only.

Similarly, when the necklace is transformed into a ring, the ring is not

a necklace.

Necklace is not a ring, but both are gold only.

So gold is apart from bangle in the sense that when bangle goes and is made

into a necklace, gold survives.

When necklace goes and is made into a ring, gold survives.

So gold is there in all of them. They are apart from each other.

Similarly, the waker is apart from the dreamer. The dreamer is apart from the

waker. But there is something continuing in both of them.

That is the thurium, the fourth one.

Similarly, the dreamer is apart from the sleeper. The sleeper is apart from the

dreamer. But you own up. All of us we own up. It was my dream and it is my

deep sleep.

And it is my waking. Who is that one who is saying it is my waking, my deep

sleep, my dream?

That one is the consciousness which is apart from the waking self, apart from

the dreamer self, apart from the sleeper self and yet in and through all of them.

So that this durium, the reality is right now here.

It is here now, but it is not exactly the Mr. or Mrs. so

and so.

What is added to the thorium are the circumstances of the waker.

It goes like this. Just like gold, you have consciousness.

Just see.

You are aware of this class now.

Before this, this class was not there. Something else was there in your life.

Now this class is going on. After some time, this class will be over. Something

else will come. You maybe will go back to your hostel or your house.

So a new circumstance will come. In all cases, what happened before, what is

happening now, what will happen later, you are the consciousness watching all

of them.

The circumstances are coming and going.

Look at your own body.

You see yourself as a young person.

or a middle aged or an old person.

Remember, the same consciousness was watching when you were a 10 year old

kid, when you were 20 years old, what you are now and it is the same

consciousness which will be watching when you are much older.

So, the body is changing continuously, the consciousness which watches the

same. How can you say it is the same? Because it is our experience, we own up

to it. I was the one in the 10 year old's body.

I am the one in the teenagers body. I am the one in this middle aged body. So who

is this continuous I?

Because the body is changing.

Body is continuously changing.

Similarly the mind is also changing.

Imagine your mind when you are in say class 10. You are sitting for your class

10 examination.

Why I am saying class 10? Because everybody remembers the class 10 board

exams. And the first big board exams which you had to face.

So imagine your mind at that time. What you knew?

What you did not know?

What you liked? What you did not like? What you wanted?

And just imagine compare it with your mind now.

You know so many things more.

Your likes and dislikes have changed.

What you want in life has changed.

So the mind is also continuously changing.

But there is the same consciousness which was watching the mind of that

class 10 student is also right here watching the mind of this IIT student

now. So mind is a series of changes.

Consciousness is not changing.

Similarly every day every day when we go from waking

To dream.

To deep sleep.

When we go from waking to dream to deep sleep.

The consciousness is the same.

See the world has changed. The waking world disappears and the dream world

comes.

A dream body comes. Remember. The body which you have in the dream is different

from the body of the waking world. Why? Because the waking world body is lying

on the bed.

But in the dream body you are doing so many things.

It's a false body, no doubt. But your experience is that you have a body there

in that world.

So consciousness is apart from the waking world and the waking body.

Consciousness is apart from the dream world and the dream body.

And consciousness is apart from the deep sleep blankness.

It is in and through all of them. The states are coming and going.

And the ego associated with each state is coming and going.

but the consciousness is illumining all of them.

The correct way to show this diagram would be the fourth one is not here, but

the fourth one is here, turium or turia.

It illumines the waker, illumines the dreamer, illumines the sleeper and this

is the only reality and this is the answer to who am I.

The question is, What are you or what am I apart from this waking state, apart

from the dream state, apart from deep sleep, apart from the physical world of

the waking state, apart from the mental imagination of the dream state and apart

from the blankness of the deep sleep state.

One of our Swamis used to tell this, give this example.

Station master sitting on the station maybe in Kanpur and first Rajdhani

Express comes on the platform.

platform number one or something, Rajdhani Express comes.

So, very important train, lot of people are getting in and getting out, so much

of rush is there, so much activity, the station master watches.

Then he gives a signal, the Rajdhani Express goes away, but the station

master does not go away with Rajdhani Express, he is watching.

Then another train comes, maybe a goods train, no activity, smoky, not many

people, very few people, one or two people may be there. It comes and stops

for some time, station master is watching.

It gives the signal, the goods train goes away. But the station master has

not gone with the goods train. He is on the platform watching.

Next what happens? No train is there.

It is a blank platform.

The blankness is there. The station master is watching the blankness.

Now this is exactly what is happening.

You, the pure consciousness, you watch the arrival of the waking state. Just

like Rajdhani Express.

So many hopes and aspirations and success and failure and problems.

All of it comes with a body and with the world and you are watching.

Only thing is you get identified with the mind in the waking state and say I

am Mr. So and So and this is my reality.

These are my problems. These are my hopes, success and failure. These are my

goals. After some time that disappears.

You like the station master, this one, you are watching.

Dream world comes.

With a dream body, with dream, you know, nice dreams and nightmares and all and

so forth, you become identified with the dream body and dream mind and you go

through these dream experiences.

Then that also goes away. Blank platform.

You are the consciousness watching the blank platform.

And again the waking state comes, rather than express comes again. But you are

apart from all of them.

Not only you are apart from all of them, you are untouched by all of them.

You are untouched by all of them. The sufferings and enjoyments of the waking

state, of the dream state and the blankness of the sleep state, none of

them touch the pure consciousness which is apart from all of them. But it

sustains all of them. In its light, the entire game is illumined.

This whole thing is illumined in its light. Now we'll quickly go through the

verse and try to understand what they are trying to say.

Let me read out the verse once for you.

Then I will break it up and explain it. Now you will see it will all become

perfectly clear.

The verse goes like this.

The mantra goes like this.

What does it mean?

Let me take you through this. There are three parts here.

The first two parts, first part, it denies that you are the waker. It

says that you are not this waking person you imagine yourself to be now.

You are not the dreamer.

You are not the sleeper also. That's the first part.

The second part of it will deny You are not this turiyam, the reality, real you.

You are apart from this waking world. You are not this physical body of the

world or anything to do with this world.

You are apart from the dream world.

And you are apart from the blankness of the sleep world.

The third part will tell you that you are in and through, just like gold is

through all this.

The third part will tell you, you are the consciousness which is watching all

this panorama, this game of the jagrat, swapna and sushupti.

Okay, let me read it out. First, naanta pragyam.

Now, you can easily understand. Anta pragyam literally means the inward

directed consciousness.

It means the dreamer. He says, you are not the dreamer.

Naanta pragyam. You are turiyam naanta pragyam. The fourth one is not the

dreamer. Na bahish pragyam.

You are not the waker.

You the turiyam. You are, your real nature is not the waker, which you

imagine. Now, all of us.

This is our reality. We think I am Swami Sarvapriyananda standing here in this

lecture hall number 3 in IIT Kanpur. This is my reality.

He says no.

You are the consciousness illumining this temporary appearance in your

consciousness. Okay.

You are not the waker. Now by his pragyam.

Anything in between waking and dream sort of now by the pragyam.

You are not something in between also. In between consciousness.

I think many students are

are familiar with this in-between consciousness.

You know, after a lot of, maybe a long lecture, we tend to go into an in

-between consciousness, between waking and dream.

So, I have seen many times the notes that you take in that in-between

consciousness are very interesting.

Something the teacher is, something that is coming from your subconscious mind,

something the teacher is thinking, and a mixture of that will come in your copy.

Okay. So, you are not in-between also, nothing in-between.

Na prajnana ghanam. Who is the prajnana ghanam?

the deep sleep.

You are not this one also.

You the turiyam, prajnanagaram na, prajnanagaram turiyam, na prajnanagaram.

And na prajnam, here the word prajnam is interpreted as, are you some kind of,

you know, god, omniscient god, Ishwara, Bhagawan, na prajnam, you are not that

also.

So this is the meaning of prajnam.

Na aprajnam, the last word, na aprajnam, Sandhya has been done, na prajnam. What

does that mean?

In that case, are you, is my reality that I am not sentient.

I am some jadavasthu like a duster or a chalk. He said, no, not that also.

So, na apragyam. You are not unconscious.

You are not all knowing God. You are not the waking person.

You are not the dreaming person.

You are not the sleeping person.

Number one. Turiya is none of these.

Number two. The second part starts.

Adrishyam. What is turiyam?

Adrishyam literally it means invisible but also means you can it you can do

something that you cannot see you cannot hear you cannot touch you cannot smell

it is not an object of our five sense organs.

Sometimes people say if God exists or Atma exists why can't I see it it's like

saying if the Higgs boson exists why can't I see it because it is not yogya

it is not a subject of your normal vision you cannot see it that way.

If it was, if there is an, you can say that there is no elephant in the room.

Why is there no elephant in the room? Because I can't see it. That's a

perfectly correct statement. Because if there was an elephant, you could have

seen it.

But if there is an Higgs boson, you cannot say, because I cannot see it,

it's not there.

Similarly, here it says, the consciousness which you are is not

something that you can see or smell or touch.

Adrishyam. Second, Abhyavaharyam.

It is not within transaction.

Transaction means usable.

What we can see and feel and touch, what we can speak about, what we can use,

that is vyavaharyam.

Pure consciousness is not an object which can be talked about, seen, felt

and used.

It is not transactable, not it is avyavaharyam. But remember, it is the

ground, it is the source of all vyavahara. Without that, none of this

can occur.

None of this can occur without the pure consciousness, which is illumining all

this. But it is itself avyavaharyam.

agrahyam, it cannot be grasped, which means it is not a visaya of the pancha

karmendriyas, you cannot hold it with your hands, you cannot walk to it in

pilgrimage. You are going to Badrinath or Kedarnath, I am going to Turiyam, you

cannot walk to the Turiyam.

And so agrahyam, alakshanam, it is a technical term, it means it cannot be

inferred. Lakshana here means the sign by which you infer something.

The road is wet. So what do you infer? There was rain earlier.

So is there some such sign?

In Sanskrit the classic example is parvato vanniman dhumat.

There is fire on the hill because I can see smoke.

There is a relation between smoke and fire. So if I see the smoke I can infer

there is fire. A lot of science is done like that.

Through some science and you infer a chain.

But here this cannot be inferred because there is no sign by which you can infer

it. Then achintyam.

You cannot think about it.

Have you thought about it? Then it is not Turiyam.

You cannot think about it. But remember the opposite also holds. Whatever you

think about is illumined by this Turiyam.

The fact that we are having a conscious experience is because of this Turiyam.

So you cannot think about it. Achintyam Abhyapadeshyam.

It literally means it cannot be named.

It cannot be named.

It will take some time to explain why it cannot be named.

But it is very interesting, Shankaracharya there goes into an

exposition, where can we use language?

Where can we use language? There are five areas where language works and he

shows in the Turiyam, none of those five apply.

I can tell you in brief, you can work it out for yourself.

It goes like this.

If you can use language, if there is some jati, some species, if some object

belongs to a class.

So, it is a cow. Why? We know the characteristics of the class of cows.

So this object is a cow. You match it with the set and you say it belongs to

that set.

But there is no set of turiyam.

So it cannot be part of a class.

Jati. Then number second is guna.

By some quality.

Give me the red flower.

How do you distinguish the red flower from all those flowers? By the quality

of red.

But you cannot say turiyam has got some quality because it is supposed to be

nirgunam. Beyond all qualities.

Then you can use kriya.

Call the cook.

Shankaracharya uses this example. Pachaka.

Pachaka is the cook. How did you use language there? By the function of that

person you are saying. Call the driver. Call the cook.

But turiyam is nishkriyam.

No activity.

Unchanging. So you cannot use kriya there.

Jati, guna, kriya.

Sambandha, relation.

So call the teacher. Who is the teacher? Who has relation of teacher and student?

Because of the teacher and student there is a relationship between these two

persons. Father and son or whatever.

But Turiya, there is no relationship because it is one unchanging reality.

There is no second apart from it.

All these appear in its consciousness, but they have no reality apart from it.

Just as bangle, necklace and ring have no reality apart from gold. If you

remove the gold, the bangle disappears.

If you remove the water, the wave disappears.

If you remove the wood from this, the table disappears.

Similarly, Turiya is the only reality which is appearing in all these ways. So

there can be no sambandha, no relation between it and anything else.

and finally, there is convention they call it Rudy this person's name is

Prakasha.

Why is you why are you calling it Prakasha? Just like that it is just a

name given by my parents that is person is called Prakasha or Hari or whatever.

There also you cannot use that that method of naming Turiya because to name

somebody you have to point out this person.

It has to be pointed out apart from all other objects this person from now on is

called xyz, but you cannot point out Turiya that way.

So, language cannot operate in the case of Turiyam and so up Vyapadeshyam.

Up to this part is the second part of the mantra where you will see actually

he denies that Turiya is any of this.

The entire physical world, the entire dream world and the blankness of deep

sleep all of them are denied here actually.

You cannot see it, you cannot touch it, you cannot infer it, you cannot think

about it, you cannot speak about it. So all of this is denied. None of this is

turiyam.

And then the third party comes to then what is turiyam? Now it speaks about it

in positive terms.

He says ekatma pratyasaram.

Eka, one.

Atma, I.

I.

Pratyaya, the cognition, the feeling of I-ness.

Saram, the essence.

If you follow this I feeling, you will come to Turiyam.

You know when Ramana Maharshi says, who am I?

You practice that. It's this thing.

Ek Atma Pratyaya Saram. This is exactly what Ashtavak Ramani told Janak Raja.

In that dream state, were you there? Dream is false, no doubt. But were you

there? Yes, I was there.

In this waking state now, are you there now? Yes, I am there.

That is the Atma Pratyaya.

Eye, eye feeling, the consciousness which is in the waker, in the dreamer

and even in the sleeper which is illumining the blankness of deep sleep.

That consciousness is in and through all this, just like gold is in and through

all this.

And that is the durium.

Ekatma pratyasa, this is a very extraordinary word.

Atma pratyaya, eye feeling. You follow that eye feeling, you come to a core

which is the durium itself.

prapancha upashamam, upashamam means cessation, prapancha is these are

prapancha, jagrat prapancha, swapna prapancha, sushupti you cannot call it

prapancha, but anyway, prapancha upashamam, what is the turiyam, where it

is completely untouched by the trouble and the sorrows and the limitations of

these three prapanchas.

Shantam, absolutely peaceful, ever undisturbed.

There is no world there to disturb you.

That is your reality.

And Shivam.

Shivam here means Ananda Swaroopam.

It is full of joy.

Advaitam. Non-dual. Non-dual why? Because there is nothing apart from

Turiya.

Just as gold is Advaitam with respect to bangle, necklace and ring.

Ring is apart from necklace. Necklace is apart from bangle.

But none of them are apart from gold. In fact, in all of them, what is the only

reality? Gold.

Why do you say it is the only reality because if you remove the gold they will

not they'll disappear?

So with respect to these three gold is at the weight of non-dual. There's

nothing apart from gold in this similarly with respect to our universe

Three universes waking universe dream universe and the darkness of deep sleep

with respect to them thorium is at the weight them They are not apart from you

the thorium in fact in that sense is a tremendous statement

If this is not apart from you, the thorium, in that case, this waker is

you, the thorium, and this entire waking world is actually you, the thorium.

In that sense, you are the world.

You can actually, the Advaitin declares, I am the world.

Atme vedam sarvam. I am everything.

I feel oneness with everything.

Just like in the dream world, you were there, many people were there, non

-living things were there in your dream.

But when you wake up, what do you say? It was entirely constructed from my own

mind. That means whatever you saw in the dream was you.

Actually you.

You are one with everything in the dream. You means the waker. You are one

with everything in your dream. When you were dreaming, everything was generated

from you.

So you are one with everything. In the same way, in the waking world also,

everything is generated.

from the thorium or projected in the thorium. So, we are all one with all

that we experience in that sense.

So, Advaitam.

Last part you can easily understand now.

Chaturtham Manyante.

People think it is the fourth, roll number four here.

They say Manyante.

Foolish people think there is something fourth, some gold apart from bangle,

necklace and ring, some gold is there. But there is no Atma apart from these

three.

You have to look there itself.

So the fourth one is not here. The fourth one is here which is shining

through these three.

You have to examine the experiences in the waking state, in the dream state, in

the sleeping state and for that you have to do it in the waking state. To examine

the experiences of dream or sleep you don't have to go into dream and sleep.

You don't have to start sleeping.

You have to look back upon those experiences and see what was common all

through.

What was common all through?

It is not a fourth apart from all this. That's why he says chaturtham manyanti.

Chaturtham literally means Turiya.

People think it is a fourth reality, but actually it is the only reality because

one, two, three are actually false.

These three are not real.

Their appearances, their reality is fourth. There are not four things here.

There are not four things here. There is only one thing which is gold.

It appears as bangle sometimes, sometimes as necklace, sometimes as

ring. The reality is gold.

Similarly, the reality is the consciousness which we are calling the

fourth, turiyam. It appears as the waker now. It appears as the dreamer. It

appears as the deep sleeper.

Who is this turiya?

We are coming to the end. Sa atma.

Sa atma means that is what you are.

Atma means I.

Atma literally means I.

Atma does not mean a ghost or something Paramatman or anything like that. Atma

means I.

Saatma. That fourth one is the answer to this question which we started with. Who

am I?

Who am I? This fourth one.

Turiyam.

Saatma.

Now what do you do after all this?

Savigyaya. That has to be realized.

Not only listening about it in a class or reading about it in a book but making

it a living reality.

One interesting thing you know Swami Vivekananda says. I will end with this.

Swami Vivekananda says.

He who runs away.

From the world to meditate and die in a Himalayan cave. Searching for God.

He has missed the way.

He who plunges headlong into the luxuries of the world. He wants to enjoy

the world.

He too has missed the way.

Then what is the way?

Then what is the way?

The way is to defy the world.

To spiritualize your everyday life.

That is what Swami Vivekananda says. Now with this background you can actually

understand what he means.

It is the pure consciousness which you are appearing as the vaker now.

But it is the same thing in all beings.

And it is the same thing which appears as the non-living world.

And therefore it is the same spiritual reality which I am, which you all are,

which all this is. In that sense we are one with the world. That is

spiritualization of the world.

When Upanishad says, You see God in all beings. This is how you see.

This is the most profound and very sophisticated way of looking at it,

which you find in the Mandukya Upanishad.

And therefore, if anybody, Swami Vivekananda says, if you leave all this

and search for Turiya elsewhere, it is like throwing away the bangle, necklace

and ring and searching for gold.

You miss the way.

If you grasp hold of this waking world, this alone is real and I am this one

then you are in trouble because this one will slowly get become old and sick and

die this waking world is continuously changing

Why so?

Why are the others there?

See, there is something predisposition within us.

Light better than darkness, if you say.

We always experience ourselves as conscious beings.

Isn't it so?

Very word experience.

Experience itself includes. It's almost tautological.

It's almost circular to say that we experience ourselves as consciousness.

Because experience includes the fact that there must be consciousness.

Otherwise, how will you experience?

So our very nature is to be conscious.

You have never been unconscious.

You have never had an experience of unconsciousness. When you come out of,

suppose you were unconscious, you come out of it, then you think back and you

say at that time I was unconscious.

But in unconsciousness you don't experience anything.

Blankness. So you always experience your own self as consciousness, as a

conscious being.

Now just extend it.

Light is very much like consciousness. Physical light of course is a good

example for consciousness.

Why? It illumines.

And we are just the opposite is darkness which is an absence of light.

So in that sense we like light because it is very much according to our nature.

Another thing is we always search for happiness.

We always search for happiness. We try to avoid unhappiness.

Therefore certain things which make us happy we say they are good.

With certain things which make us unhappy we say they are bad.

Although the things in themselves may not may be quite neutral. They may not

be good or bad as such.

But the effect they are having on us is happiness and unhappiness.

Now, the whole idea here is the self which I have discovered here is beyond

this happiness and unhappiness.

The happiness and unhappiness are all within this waking world and the dream

world.

Okay. Question?

Yeah, there is a question there.

Yeah.

It actually should be Bahish Pragyam and the spelling mistakes there, yeah.

Yeah, actually it is difficult to say

they will simply pass it off as Ashwa Prayoga.

Ashwa Prayoga means, Ashwa means comes from the Rishi.

So, you do not hold the Rishis to the rules of Sanskrit grammar.

So, you will find lot of times in Upanishads.

In Keno Upanishad, for example, you will find this usage,

te vidan chakara, te vidan chakara, they knew. But you know, if you know Sanskrit

grammar, you will say, it should be te vidan chakruhu, they knew in plural. If

te is there, it should be plural.

Vidan chakara is singular.

Now, the question is raised, in Keno Upanishad, how come you are starting

with plural and you end up, the verb is in singular.

This is a basic Sanskrit problem.

But there you cannot touch it because the idea is the Shrutis.

You should not use your grammar on the Shrutis. You just leave it as Ashwa

Prayoga. The translation would be roughly poetic license.

Poetic license. Just like you would not hold a poet to the rules of grammar.

Here also you leave it. You just leave it like that.

Yeah.

Absolutely, this is a good question and I will deal with it tomorrow when one of

the Karikas, I will just give you one line answer.

Gaurapada Acharya will take up this question, I think in the 17th or 18th

Karika which will come in the second handout which we will get tomorrow and

the answer he gives is, just now quite apart from all this, we find ourselves

ignorant.

We do not know this. We are just reading about it.

We don't feel that. But our reality now is that we feel I am this one.

This I don't know.

I don't know myself as this. This ignorance I have. About what? About the

thorium.

I have an ignorance about the thorium and because of this ignorance I imagine

that I am the waker.

Now in this state I am the one who has to realize myself as thorium.

When I realize myself as turiyam, I will realize that actually there was no waker

or waking state separate from me.

Gaudapada Acharya's answer, one sentence answer to that is, for the purpose of

instruction, the relation between knower and known. In fact, this is the exact

word he used, upadeshad.

For the purpose of teaching, the relationship is set up between guru,

shishya, shastra and all of that is sublated, badhitam, when you realize

yourself as turiyam.

It is not that they will disappear.

Moment you realize I am Turi, I am suddenly Sarvapriyananda will disappear,

the classroom will disappear, everything will go into a haze of white light. No,

no, no. They will still be there. Just like when you realize the blue sky, the

blueness in the sky. Actually the sky is not blue.

You know the physics behind it. So, it just looks blue. Now, once you

understand the physics behind it, you know fully well the sky is not blue.

After that when you look up at the sky, what do you see?

Blue sky.

Similarly, here you will realize what is the thorium.

This world will keep on appearing.

Your friends need not be scared, you know, that if you realize the thorium,

we will all disappear.

You will realize the background. Just like once you realize this is gold, it

doesn't mean the bangle will disappear or the necklace or the ring will

disappear. You just know the reality behind it.

That will come in the 17th or 18th karika. Exactly this question is

answered. Yeah.

Any other question?

And I'll just finish that one come to

The

answer

would be there is nothing behind the consciousness because according to

Advaita Vedanta consciousness is swaprakasha It's like light a tube light

which illumines this hall.

The hall is in darkness.

When you switch on the tubulite, the hall is illumined. Now, do you need one

more tubulite to illumine that tubulite?

You don't.

The tubulite illumines itself and the hall.

In the same way, consciousness is self-illumined and it illumines whatever

comes in front of it.

So, you don't have to posit one more consciousness.

Because then it leads to what is called anavastha, regresses as ad infinitum.

And it goes with our experience also.

When I am conscious, I don't require one more consciousness to illuminate the

consciousness. But remember, this consciousness is apart from the

thoughts. One thought can be about another thought. A thought can be about

the world and a thought can be about other thoughts also.

So thoughts can be about other thoughts. That's what's called introspection.

But this consciousness is not introspection.

One, I'll tell you, one interesting question came.

You have heard of Susan Blackmore, those who do research in consciousness studies

and AI and all.

She is a well-known researcher.

So she says this idea of self-consciousness, I, it's nothing

permanent. Some spiritual people say I-ness, the permanent I is there. No,

no. She says it's just like the example she gives is a refrigerator.

When you open the door, there's a light.

So whenever you open the door, there's a light.

But when you close the door, Is the light there?

Actually, because you know how a refrigerator is designed, so there is no

light there. You know that.

But we can never see it unless you are a mechanic when you open everything up.

But whenever you open the door, there is a light.

And these people, Susan Blackmore says that these people, they make a mistake.

When they look in their minds, they see an I-ness.

But the I-ness disappears.

Suppose we are talking about flow yesterday.

When you are in flow, in fact, the I feeling disappears.

So there is no permanent I, that's what she is saying. But she is making a

fundamental mistake here.

Advaita Vedanta would say, what she is taking, the refrigerator light, that is

not consciousness.

That is the ahankara, the ahankara of the waker, the I, the ego here, the

knower. This comes and goes.

This also comes and goes. This also comes and goes.

But what illumines their coming and going, the station master.

That is what is meant by turiyam here, pure consciousness.

See, till today, in western thought, mostly in western psychology, even in

neuroscience, they don't make a distinction between mind and

consciousness. They don't make a distinction between mind and

consciousness.

Thoughts and consciousness are supposed to be the same.

In western poetry, philosophy, you'll see soul means the mind.

Personality, mind, soul are taken as one entity.

But in Indian thought, not only Advaita,

Consciousness or the Atman is separate from the mind and that is separate from

the body. A trichotomous view of the human personality.

Body, mind and Atman.

So consciousness is apart from the mind. Where this I may come and go like a

refrigerator light.

This may come and go. She is right there. But what Advaita speaks about is

not that I.

Speaking about the light which shines on that I.

When the I is present, when the I is absent also.

One more question then we wrap up.

I think today is going with little heavy, I sort of expected it to be heavy

ok,

I will take up your question yeah go ahead.

I know that at the moment that I am not a waker, I am not a dreamer, I am not a

sleeper. So, I should be indifferent to all the emotions like happiness, sorrows

or everything.

Yes. I should just see emotions going in front of me. Yes, yes.

So, why should I feel simply to a poor.

Or why should I have a sympathy towards someone who needs my help?

True, true, true. Why should not I kill him?

Yeah, true.

First of all, you would not kill him also, because you would be indifferent

to your own emotions also, right.

So, now, this is an interesting question, but the answer is also pretty

straight forward.

Now, you see, there are two ways of looking at this.

One is, the thorium is apart from the waker and the waking world, right.

First of all, why are we identified with all this? The reason given in Advaita is

because we are ignorant of the Turiyam. We are not aware of it at all.

We are not aware of it at all. We do not understand it. We may read about it, but

we do not feel it.

When we are ignorant of something, error comes.

This is the fundamental thing.

From ajnana or let us use English, from ignorance comes error,

comes error.

If I don't know that there is a rope in the darkness, the rope is there, a semi

-darkness. So what do I see? A snake.

So I am ignorant of the rope and I make the error, I think it's a snake.

Right? I am ignorant of myself as the untouched, unchanging pure

consciousness. And what I see in front of me? The world, this body and mind.

And I immediately identify myself with this mind.

Mind is full of thoughts, happiness, sadness, desires, everything.

And I go on like this. I become the waker.

I become the waker.

Now this is one way of looking at it. So the thorium is apart from the waker to

answer your question. Thorium is apart from the waker. If you are really apart

from it you ought to be indifferent to it.

Or another way of looking at it is it is the thorium itself which appears as the

waker in the waking world.

Just like in your dream you appear as the dreamer and the dreaming world.

The one who is sleeping and dreaming.

In his mind he creates a dream and he is also himself in that dream.

In fact, the entire dream, the people in that dream, the animals and non-living

things and he himself in the dream, all of them are not apart from his mind. He

has actually become everything in that dream.

And this states that this turium itself is appearing as all this. In other

words, the turium is one with all.

Now, some sadhaka or some spiritual giant may stress the oneness aspect of

it. You'll find in Vivekananda again and again and again. He says you are one. We

are one with the universe.

It's not a rhetorical thing. You should feel one with the universe, which is

good. But he states this as a fact, as an assertion.

Actually you are one with the universe.

If you limit yourself to this body and mind, you are separate from all bodies

and minds.

But if you see what is behind that, like gold, then you are one with everything

made of gold.

Gold is one with everything made of gold.

You see yourself as pure consciousness.

in yourself all these things are taking place, then you have a sense of oneness

with all beings. If you stress that oneness, then the unhappiness of a

person, the misery of another person actually will bring a response in you.

Just as right now my misery brings a response in me, when I have sarvatma

bhava, the oneness with everybody, it automatically does.

And you see it in the lives of great sadhakas and great spiritual giants.

They respond to the

to the sufferings of others.

But you are right. There may be a kind of spiritual giant who does not respond,

who may not be cruel, but may simply be indifferent to the world which he will

see as a dream.

So there have been such people.

And they have also been very great spiritual people also. You can see it in

them, a kind of deep peace and joy is there within them. If somebody comes in

front who is suffering, they will help.

And that has been explained in different ways. A simple explanation would be,

these people have gone through a long period of spiritual practice.

And so the mind of that person is suffused with thoughts of good thoughts,

helpful thoughts.

After realization, when he sees himself apart from all, what would he do? He

would let the body and mind go on doing whatever, like an inertia of motion.

So the inertia of motion of a sage would be to help others.

He is apart from the helping also.

He sees himself as illumining.

both the helper and the helped.

This here, we are really going to the peak of the Everest here. The final word

the Upanishads have to say about this.

And I have packed so much into one class.

I was seeing the explanation given by a very senior Swami.

I have given you just four or five points here, the whole one hour session.

That Swami, he explains this verse in 127 points.

out of which I have given you less than 10% today.

So, if there are seem to be gaps it is very natural.

If you think it is all perfectly clear then you either you are a realized soul

or you have not been following what is going on.

There should be some gaps actually. There should be some areas of confusion

or you know where you can feel little uneasy about what is going on here.

Should we wrap it up?

Tomorrow I am going into the extensions of this mantra what the implications and

Gaudapada Acharyas Karikas will take up 7 or 8 Karikas which in the second

handout which will come tomorrow.

Thank you very much.

tomorrow 11 to 12 here, here.

I hope this was useful to you.

Thank you.