Original subtitles

[music]

I was at school. I was probably in um

maybe about third year when punk was

happening.

I remember it was a really hot summer

and I I was just kind of longish hair

and um I thought I'll make a change, you

know, I'm going to I'm going to go for

this. And I remember getting my [snorts]

hair cut and um my ears burnt cuz they

were they weren't used to being exposed

to the sun.

Punk rock really meant a lot to us, you

know. It shook up all of our worlds, you

know, and propelled us on to what we do

now. Basically, music brought us

together.

Oh, hello.

Hello.

Hello.

This is your life. [laughter]

Well, it's probably worth going back to

when we started making music at your

house on the little cassette recorder.

Yeah, I I guess um we both had a real

big passion about music. We would kind

of walk up and down the North Road in

Bell kind of planning what it would be

like when we had our first number one

records. And what will you say in your

speech when you get your awards?

I've always believed that people who are

likeminded will eventually, you know,

come together and then that's where all

the craziness started.

[music]

[music]

[music]

Heat. Heat. [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

Enter Steven Pastor.

[music]

[music]

Steven Castle was really um in some ways

he's kind of the mayor of [laughter]

the Scottish underground.

Our [music] guiding star or leader

Steven who's just I guess a couple years

older than us but knew what was what

more than we did.

Steven Pasel has really been at the

center of things in Glasgow since around

1980 and you know he's still pretty much

at the center of what's happening in

Glasgow. He had his own band. His own

band had fans. People came to see them.

They [music] went on tour. He was

something to aspire to.

I think Steven's really interested in

[music] music in a way that some people

aren't. He's always looking for the for

the next new interesting [music] thing.

He's a kind of pusher.

Have you heard this? Have you heard

this?

He's always [music] had the same

haircut, which drives me crazy.

I like stuff like the Ramones and and

[music] TV personalities and swell maps

was really important in my life because

they were rule breakers.

I used to get a lot of letters from

Glasgow from a young fellow called

Steven McRobie and he was a a very

passionate Swell maps fan. I got a

letter from Steven saying me and my

friend Brian want to come down to

London. can we stay with you? I thought

what? And um it was in mid- winter I

remember lo and behold Steve came down

with his friend Brian who he called

Brian the superstar. They came to stay

with me for a night or two at my my

freezing house in Stoke Newington

and they told me about this band that

they were setting up called the

Pastorals.

Steven and Brian had met at the home of

Postcard Records. the hugely influential

but now defunct Glasgow based

independent label which had launched the

careers of Aztec Camera and Orange

Juice. You know if there's something

around it's really really good. You'll

always be slightly in their shadow in a

way and Orange Juice moving away

although

it was a negative thing culturally for

Glasgow. I think it did create space for

other people to to develop.

Firmly rooted in the belief that you

didn't have to move to London to make

music. It was the breeding ground for

many young bands. The Blue Bells, the

Jazzeers, James King, and Strawberry

Switchblade.

We used to go around and hang out in

Allen and Edwin's flat and just have a

laugh. And I remembered like sort of

making the sort of like the orange juice

singles and drawing on them.

They were always trying to put together

bands, you know, from like groups of

friends that they knew. And no, you can

play guitar. But I can't I haven't No,

just put your fingers there and just

play these two notes. Just just play the

two notes. That's fine.

You know, you sort of hook up with

people that are likeminded and inspire

each other.

There was kind of big old glass flat.

Brian smoked a lot, so the windows were

kind of slightly grimy. It didn't seem

in brilliant condition. And then Brian's

roof ended up falling in. I remember

that

Steven used to hang around and he wanted

to start a band. So I thought, why not?

[music]

[music]

babysense.

The pastels are the sacred [ __ ]

[music] the sacred [ __ ] beast up in

Scotland.

We were outsiders to begin. It felt that

there was nothing really like us.

No one had a bloody clue and all you

wanted to do was make some records. It

was never particularly serious. It was

never a kind of, you know, let's form a

band and have a career in rock.

They were just perfect, perfect pop

music. They were a bit shambolic. They

were a bit scruffy. They had a cool

drummer.

I never pretended [music] to be a rock

drummer. I just love the cramps rhythm.

For me, that was that, you know, just

keep it really simple. You don't need to

have your your drumsticks tied to your

arms and held upside down to to be a

real drummer.

And they don't really sound like anybody

else. Nobody sounded [music] like Steven

Pastor.

We knew that our ability was limited,

but I I think the important thing is

that we didn't allow that to stop us.

[music]

I don't think we ever thought that we

were going to be on top of the pops. It

was a genuinely almost like an art

movement as opposed to a band. I think

that that would be a fair way to put it.

And I think if you look at the photos,

you just think what's a strange

collection of people. [music]

above. [music]

We recorded a demo and we sent it off

and we were really really fortunate.

[music] Dan Tracy, who was doing Glam

Records at the time, wanted to release

the demo, you know, as a single and, you

know, I was pretty excited by that.

Dan fronted post punk heroes the TV

personalities [music]

channeling obscure psychedelic

references with the modern brutalist

naive.

[music]

His record label Wham was at the

forefront of the underground scene. Its

iconoclastic approach setting [music]

the tone for future independent labels.

The thing I was influenced by wasam

which is Dan Tracy creation. If it was

aping anybody and it was it was

initially it was

Dan was a kindred spirit and he was

often criticized for his low production

values.

There's a virtue in being primitive. I

think

people liked us pretty instantly. I mean

not everyone liked us. You know a few

people really hated us but that that was

good too. It felt like we needed to do

our own thing. [music]

The burgeoning underground music scene

was thriving with the Pasals at its

heart and through that Steven became

friends with the Kindred music

obsessive.

Bobby Gillespie was already a familiar

face in the Glasgow clubs. He'd been

roadie to Altered Images and played bass

for the wake.

A sharp guy. It was funny and kind of

angry and quite ambitious.

Bobby Gillespie is a guy I think he

still has got great taste in music and

someone with very good knowledge of

music.

It's difficult for me to express the

degree to which he's obsessed with music

and always has been. I think I met Bobby

when he was nine and I was 12 and then

we became pals when um he phoned me up

when I was about 15 and I was going to

concerts for a couple of years and he

said m man won't let me go to see thin

Lizzy will you take me and then after

that became pal but he was always an

obnoxious little you know brat

he hooked up with guitarist and

songwriter Jim Bey who just started his

own group named after a 60s cult book

big Jim Bey's like do you want to join

the band? I was like look guys I don't

play guitar don't play bass don't play

drums that there's a lot of people

playing tambourines and no problem beat

and I says since the cramps never had a

vacancy for a tambourine shaker and

maraca g I was there man

it was all done in kind of be mom and

dad's front room and I used to let just

keep a beat on a paraffin heater you

know it sounded brilliant

Bobby Gillespie was good at pulling

together different people

He sort of created a cool band, you

know, he knew exactly how he wanted it

to look.

The music that influenced us was more

kind of the west coast 60s thing in

America that love the loving spoonful.

The birds obviously, you know, that's

the music that that that Jim was kind of

influenced by.

This be was a real Sid Barrett freak in

the band like, you know, he's got us

into Sid Barrett in a big style. It was

time to get back into the old TARDIS

machine. 1966 Crashland Sunset Strip

Light. You know, [music]

the year zero moment was 1983 December.

The enemy article for the Tales My Drug

Addict Julian Cop.

Julian Cop was the main man without a

doubt. And right on that scene, I would

say bang on the button.

This was the article that kind of was a

catalyst for everyone going out and

buying all these records. The electric

prunes, seeds and love,

Zapper's mother's invention.

The 13th floor elevators

hadn't heard this chocolate watch band

who totally out stoned the stones. Even

the cope article wasn't just a portal to

the past, but a means of bringing music

enthusiasts together.

You'd probably spend hours and hours and

days maybe going round and round record

shops all over the place and eventually

one of you would find this Lee his old

album or a copy of the head soundtrack

by monkeys and the rest of you would all

gather at that person's house and go

so beautiful.

You could go to record stores and

discover older things and discover that

in fact they weren't a load of old

hippie nonsense. They were actually

somehow linked with with what you were

listening to of The Now.

The spirit of psychedelia was channeled

by bands like the TV personalities in

which Joe Foster played bass and Alan

McGee's current band, The Laughing

Apples.

McGee had moved to London in 1980, and

he and Joe had firstirhand experience of

how hard it was to get gigs.

So, they started their own club, The

Living Room. And it quickly became a

haven for the musical counterculture.

[music and singing]

Alan McGee decided he was going to be a

promoter for all the bands we loved. And

it's like Whoa, let's do it.

When I had like pub room, we'd stack 150

people in and suddenly there's a scene.

We weren't even trying to create a

scene. We were just trying to put on

gear.

[music]

There was a lot more of a following for

all these things than the mainstream

seem to realize. The reason we started

record label is because we made so much

money putting these shows on. Either

we're going to become alcoholics or we

should actually do something proper with

this money. [music]

There's something about you got me down

[music] my knees.

Alan says, "Ciao, I'm going to start

doing a label." Great. What are you

going to call it? So he said, "There's

this great band that uh I heard at one

of Dan's nights. It's called the

creation.

The dawn in a postcard [music] and fast

was the beginning of the real Scottish

music scene. And then we ran with it

after that as creation.

We weren't [music] friends or managers

of the bands. We were just like them and

they were just like us.

Creation would go on to become one of

the biggest indie labels in history.

Home to Teenage Fan Club, Ride, Primal

Scream, My Bloody Valentine, and

multi-million Sellers Oasis.

But they also released more obscure left

field artists. And this [music] diverse

roster of talent all had one thing in

common, attitude.

The thing is, selling a lot of records

is not the same as being [music] a star.

Iva Cutler, a major major important

figure in literature. And we've got it

signed felt because to us Lawrence is a

star. That's what we're about. [music]

Our big thing was not money. Our whole

thing was to present our picture of the

world. And

that's probably delusional behavior, but

I don't really care.

They identified with the uncompromising

approach of the Scottish scene and

invited both the pastels and primal

scream to play the living room.

And it was Bobby Gillespie who would

introduce them to the next musical

phenomenon to emerge from Scotland. The

band who would make creation's name

[music]

[music]

I probably met Jim when I was 14. I used

to write names [music] of bands on my

school books and someone said, "Oh, I

know someone that loves [music] all

those same bands.

[music]

In the Glasgow new town of East

Kilbride, Douglas and the Reed brothers,

Jim and William, had been honing their

explosive sound for years. with the aid

of a porter studio bought with their

dad's redundancy money.

They were sitting riding in the bedrooms

for a long time before anybody saw them.

So they were there right at the

beginning. I mean Douglas, they used to

call him Todd cuz he toddler.

Some kid's parents went away for the

weekend and we did a gig and I was

singing. Jim was playing bass, I was

playing guitar, doing punk rock songs

and my voice is like a [ __ ] little

squeaky. I was 14 but looked about 10.

I suppose the punk rock for me is when

suddenly the Jesus and Mary chain came

around. There used to be posters up

everywhere. You just thinking, you know,

what the [ __ ] is that? playing Howling

Feedback and taking like kind of 60s

girl group tunes and just the way they

looked with their kind of psychotic post

echo in the Bunnyman hairstyles and

their tight leather pants and songs were

just fantastic and I thought their whole

demeanor was just like super cool.

I came home from school one day and mom

said some guys called you about the band

and I was like really and my mom said I

asked him who's famous and he said not

yet.

60s psychedelic guru Sid Barrett was the

catalyst for bringing Bobby Gillespie

and the Mary chain together. They'd

recorded some songs on the Bside of a

Sid Barrett compilation which found its

way into Bobby's hands. He liked what he

heard.

It was a kind of real wow kind spirit

cuz we kind of felt we were like three

freaks in the wilderness and to meet

another one was things like that really

important.

first started drinking in the Griffin

bar. That kind of was the main place in

the Mary chain. They started drinking in

there as well and those guys hadn't been

out their bedroom in years. But looks at

me was just pure peely valley you know

fuzzed up hair do take a drug or nothing

wet behind the ears kind of guys like

you know and all of a sudden these guys

laugh we are playing a gig in June and

nightmares we like wow we'll come along

and support you like you know it only

lasted 15 minutes

you would see these reports about how

the Mary chain were playing for 12

minutes with no regards to doing an

encore [music]

I guess there was a part of us that we

couldn't play any longer because we were

so [ __ ] up that physically couldn't do

it any longer.

I remember Lydia Lunch saying like, "Ah,

no, it's a bunch of [ __ ] You know,

this is a bunch of spoiled brats, you

know, making noise. It's nothing like,

you know, like our great no wave scene."

[laughter]

Bobby Gillespie had been very insistent

that we we should really do something

with these guys. And if Bobby was was

obsessed enough with something, it was

good enough for us.

But the first time I ever met them was

was mad. Douglas Hart came in with biker

boots and leathers. He looked like James

Dean or something. He was about 16 or

17. And Jimmy William looked as if he'd

come in dragged via punk via the rollers

or something. And they were just held

together by safety pins.

Jim just used to sound check not one two

three four went [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ]

[ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] And I was like

[ __ ] what is this guy on? But McGee

to his credit the minute we finished he

came running up going it's I [ __ ]

love it and what you doing now boys

providing a haven for unconventional and

offbeat talent. Allan signed the Pastals

who produced three singles for creation.

We put the records out really it became

a part and it were the opposite. Do you

know what I mean? Total opposite people.

So it was never going to work.

I don't know why ever we did them. I

think it's because I quite like Steven

as a person.

We didn't really want to be a creation

band. It wasn't a slight creation, but

you know, they were they were quite

volatile. Allan was always quite black

and white. Everything was great or

terrible.

I always wanted one and Steven likes a

one draw.

Steven also teamed up with the new

Edinburghoughbased group who'd go on to

become the shop assistants [music] to

release a one-off single.

[music]

Well, I moved down to Edinburgh when I

was 16 from up in the Highlands. I'd

only been through to Glasgow once before

and um which was partly to see about the

Virgin Prunes of all people.

The first I heard the Fastels would have

been the Heavens Above single. It was

really honest and direct at a time when

all all the bands seemed to be I don't

know doing something really artificial

either trying to be really funky and I I

just really liked them. It wasn't even

so much musically. It was details like

on the back of the sleeve on the wall

there was a Swell maps poster.

That's the kind of details that really

mattered.

It was nice when all those groups

started coming out like shop assistants

and Jesus and Mary chain and primal

scream and eventually it kind of became

a bigger thing cuz we all started to

know each other.

By now Bobby Gillespie still in Primal

Scream had replaced drummer Murray in

the Mary chain and the band had signed

to creation.

The next big thing, the favorite.

[music]

We were kids, man. I was 23 or 24

managing a band and like we were the

hottest thing. [music]

Then Upside Down came out and it was

just like, you know, the justosition of

this gorgeous sweet pop song with this

complete and utter aircraft hitting your

head

and they were amazing. an upside down

was like the past, present, and future

of sort of music all happening at the

same time.

It was like, "Wow, that that's that's

incredible. I had never heard anything

like that." It's like that total chaos

with beautiful melodies and the tragedy.

They don't write songs, they make

potions.

That year was insane. Really

incredible momentum, forward momentum

and incredible energy, including the

riots that North London Poly. [cheering]

One of the best things at North London

Poly, I'm sure there was a support band

from his school pride called Meek

Whiplash, named after a fire engine

song. They were kind of getting booed

and Bobby motioned the singer to the

side and said whispered into his ear and

the singer walked out and said, "This is

our last song." And everyone went,

"Wait." And then he said, "And it lasts

20 minutes. [laughter]

We conjured up madness. [cheering]

Half the crowd loved us and half the

crowd wanted to kill us."

Well, Joe was on stage kind of going

like that to people. [laughter]

At the time I was doing a a

post-graduate thing at North London Poly

and so I had to dive into the audience

when they grabbed Jim Reed and pulled

him in to try and murder him. And there

was film of me doing that. So the the

the college decided the best thing to do

was not to praise me for saving someone

was to fire me. Alan McKe had some

really heavy minders. You know these

were kind of XAs guys, real tough

[ __ ] and they quit after a few days.

cuz one of them would be knocked out

with a scaffolding pole. And if these

guys are quitting because they can't

handle what the [ __ ] chance we got

skinny

[ __ ] cowards from school.

[cheering]

Inspired by the Mary chain, the pastals,

the primal scream, the underground music

scene in Glasgow is thriving. And an ex

mining community on the outskirts was

home to the next wave.

[music]

So can I please see you tomorrow?

Three bands who formed there would

achieve cult and mainstream success with

chart hits and worldwide acclaim.

Teenage fan club, the Soup Dragons, and

the BMX Bandits. All the creation of

three childhood friends.

So, where we start, Douglas, when did we

meet?

I think we met in 1982.

Um,

I'm not that old.

I remember Norman once saying in an

interview I saw about Belle being a dump

and and it [laughter] wasn't it wasn't

the best place in the life place, but I

actually I was thinking about how

grateful in a funny way I am. We came

from Bel because I sort of think it was

a very important thing that the three of

us gained some sort of strength through

meeting each other

and we gave each other confidence.

Well, hello Douglas.

Hello.

Um, question one. What does pop mean to

you?

Pop of course there's pop art instantly

comes to mind with people like Andy

Warhol just to drop a few names and of

course pop music which is really what

we're all about.

All right. I see.

So I met Douglas in the art class at our

school. We both went to Belil Academy.

Douglas came up with this idea that we

could go out in the streets in Belil and

pretend that we were a tomorrow's world

camera crew. I I would be the cameraman

and Douglas would be Judith Hannah. Now,

this sounds insane, but we did this.

You know, I get a mic from a tape

recorder we had and go up street and

kind of like talk to pretty girls by

pretending we were out filming for the

BBC. We always would encourage a kind of

daffeness and mischievousness in each

other and egg each other on.

I'd kind of hooked up with Norman cuz I

felt like he was the only other kind of

oddball and dreamer that I could find in

Belil. But then he'd found you.

Well, I guess there's no one to blame

cuz we're [music] in this situation.

Bel. There was two things you did. You

played football. You were a poof. I was

a poof. So, I made music.

When I was about eight, I was taught how

to play classical guitar cuz I think

that's how my mother and father kind of

thought that will keep him busy.

I also remember Sean as a child. Um

because in the street that I lived in,

there was a guy who gave guitar lessons

to people. I've got a memory of Sean

walking down the street maybe every

well, I can't remember. I'm going to

guess it was a Thursday.

I always hated it cuz it was always on a

Thursday night. at the same time as

Bloody Top of the Pops. So, it kind of

ruined Top of the Pops for me.

He was the So, the first guitarist in

the

the Bell scene.

[music]

Well, this is my own little world within

a world. And this is where I lie at

night on my bed. And um down here, my

record collection. Some of my favorites.

Village People, The Beach Boys, Frobing

Gristle. I like all sorts of music. I

like to keep my my taste very wide. And

here we've got something rather special.

[music]

It was Douglas that I met first.

He's going to kill me when I say [music]

this, but it it didn't because I mean I

went to no school, so I didn't have a

big experience of talking to the

opposite sex. So when it was talking

when I was talking to Douglas, it didn't

feel like I was talking to the opposite

sex. We could talk about anything to

each other.

I met a girl called Francis McKe and I

thought she was like the most amazing

creature human being I'd ever met. I was

just like, I just want to be around this

person all the time. And Francis said to

me, I'd really love to be in a group.

And I was like, I'm forming a group.

a memory of us one summer being in a

park in Bell Silling. We thought it was

a gig, but it was basically just us in a

park playing to nobody.

I couldn't play an instrument. Douglas

was doing something and Norman and Sean

and suddenly it was my turn to do

something. So I sang this song that I

used to sing in primary school. Norman

put some music to it and that's really

how it all started.

Those were the kind of gigs that we did,

you know, happenings, I guess you would

call them.

I still can't believe we did this. And

sometimes I actually think, was this a

dream? But did we have a band called

Child Molesters that played My School?

Yeah.

We did that gig at my school when

Douglas sang I've got a little biscuit

in to keep your panties in. So we got

banned. We were quite happy that

we were playing a show in the Hatri

Hotel and there was people outside

boycotting it because of the name. And I

I mean I think that shows the sort of

level of naivity with me because I said

well what's the problem?

Douglas phoned me up one night and he

said I'm changing the name to Pretty

[music] Flowers and said I really don't

like that name. And that's when I kind

of took a backseat from it. For me, I

felt more [music] comfortable being, you

know, a child molester than a pity.

[laughter]

She's got an egg certificate.

So, I met himself, Douglas, and Sean

sort of wanting to make music, I

suppose. So, we uh we started busking.

That was really when we started making

music. That was, you know, it was as

simple as that. [music]

[singing]

Yes. It [singing and music] came as a

big surprise.

It would be me, Norman, Douglas, and

various other people that would drag in.

But then we became friendly with this

other bunch of buskers. They were all

very professional. They had like sacks

of phones and they were really good. And

that was actually Jim McCullik who ended

up being in the Soup Dragons.

And at Mwell, we had as a school band.

We started off called the rubber nuns

for whatever reason. And then it became

the Eiffel Towers. And then around that

time we we sort of started busking in

Glasgow. It's the three saxopones the

guitar. We're playing at Glenn Miller

stuff. But uh [snorts] Bert Bakarak,

Dave Breubck,

they used to do um Purple Case to Little

Granny's shopping at Marks and Spencers.

And the crazy thing is it was like

Douglas was like incredibly effeminate

with his use of his actions and his

words then just to really shock people

and and it done the job made like a five

or a tener. You got to spudge you like

and get a big potato and uh cheese

exciting times.

[music]

We used to all sit [music] about each

other's bedrooms. You know, Norman

Blake's grand's house used to be a great

place

[music]

and Sean would arrive and I would

arrive.

Me and Norman [music] spent a lot of

time sitting in his granny's in Bell's

Hill drinking tea and reading the music

press and just like, you know, looking

at stuff and laughing at stuff. You

know, I ate a lot of dinners out at

Norman's Granny's.

It was a kind of group collective. You

know, Norman would be finding something

or Jim or whoever and we would just

share it. [music]

So, just through hanging out in

Bellisell in our bedrooms, we ended up

writing some songs together.

[music]

tomorrow.

[music]

And from this group of friends, Douglas

and Shawn put together the band which

has been at the heart of the Scottish

music scene ever since.

I remember us phoning up Eugene and the

two of us being giggling on the phone

going, "We've got a name for our new

band. We're going to call it BX. What

you think?" and YouTube's like that is

maybe the worst name [laughter] I have

ever heard of in my life.

Genius.

Okay, we're keeping it.

[music]

So, the Beam Expanders were born,

but we never done any [music] songs

about cycling.

Well, they can't believe their eyes.

[music]

[singing]

We're regarded as a big surprise.

[singing]

Big surprise. [music] And all the pop

stars stare at the length of our hair.

Wo! Commy's [music] got a crush on us.

[singing] Crushing all the pop stars

there at the weight of our hair. [music]

They may never have achieved commercial

success, but the BMX Bandits were

supported on their first tour by Oasis,

and Kurt Cobain famously said they were

the band he'd most like to have been in.

Over the years, the lineup has been

renowned for embracing many musicians on

the scene.

You enjoy your life? I don't know.

Douglas don't know Douglas.

Ask Douglas.

I don't know. You better

[laughter]

I think there's been 28 people in BMX

bandits in 28 years. It seems to always

be it's 27 people in 27 years, 26. And

it seemed to have always followed that.

BMX Bandits when I was in a mic might

have been like to be in the Goons or

Monty Python. It was just silly and

great fun.

You know, Douglas might have been the

most driven of all those guys in Belil

at the time and the guy that was kind of

maybe leading the way. BX Bandits was,

you know, the kind of this the roots of

all those bands really. You know,

I'm in your hair

and I'm staying [music] there.

The three of us were all musically quite

ambitious. We can have with bigger

pictures in our mind. But I remember it

although you were the youngest one that

you were one where it was like I don't

want to just be a big fish in the little

pool of del anymore. I want to further

[music]

[music]

escape the ship dragons. The Soup

Dragons were four friends.

We started a band, made some bloody

great singles, and we had some great

times.

[music]

Fueled by Shaun's vision, the Soup

Dragons would become the first Bells

Hill band to make it big with top 10

success.

When the band started, we were all kind

of writing songs and doing things, but

really quickly Sean's songs became the

ones that felt like the soup dragons.

Give a blast at this one. Well, I guess

there's no

try that one again. Well, I guess

there's no [music]

fear in this situation

all together. Yeah, I should always

[music]

take

like

[music]

[singing] that must be true.

All the things I ever said [music] I

ever said about you could not be nobody

else. [music]

I'm the only [singing] person.

Okay. I mean, [ __ ] That was a disaster.

But uh but it was great like every week

he came in with these things and uh they

were just sort of like complete these we

sort of pop gems you know [music]

we decided to do a flexi disc and that

flexi disc cost £35 to make and it got

single of the week in NM we they ended

up giving us like four full pages

The flexi disc brought them to the

attention of John Peele who became a

champion of the band.

So what's the significance of this place

then Sean?

When I was about 14 15 we used to come

down here with tape recorders.

So you actually played in there then?

That's great.

Like a rockfest and all the audience out

here on the uh just like sell.

[laughter]

I think there was a real interest coming

out of like Scottish underground to

write

really classic, heartfelt classic pop

songs without having to subscribe to

money production and so to keep it

really on the street.

Recognizing a need to promote the

thriving underground scene, Steven Pasel

and David Keegan joined forces to start

their own record label. We thought there

was enough kind of stuff going on in

Scotland that we were interested in that

we could document.

And with the nod to the roots of

American punk, they named it 53rd and

Third.

I came up with the name. It's a Ramon

song. I think I designed the picture on

the label, which was Joey Raone. There

wasn't a plan to have a record label

releasing certain kinds of music. It was

always just going to be stuff that we

liked.

[music]

[music]

They hooked up with Edinburgh based

Sandy Mlan who'd worked for the

groundbreaking Fast Product Label and

now managed an independent distribution

company. 533rd was [music] basically a

label kind of under the wing of the fast

forward distribution company and it just

gave us the opportunity to release

records that mostly Steven brought to

us. Steven was the ANR person for that.

Oh, Sandy was really important to the

scene. He was a promoter and champion of

the scene and he was a kind of friendly

face of business I suppose.

[music]

The first release on the label by the

shop assistants was an immediate success

and leapt to number two in the indie

charts.

AAR won the [music] first 53rd and third

record. Ag R as good as Ramon's records

and uh that one came out. It did 25,000

the first week.

Suddenly we started getting lots of John

Peele plays and it [music] was really

amazing.

Well, it was exciting. Morsy wanted to

produce them. That was exciting and I

think they kind of set the benchmark for

the rest of us.

[music]

53rd and Third quickly diversified from

local talent to a UK-wide roster with

Jou Heads, House Hunters, and Oxford

base to Lulu Legos. And then across the

Atlantic, signing American bands beat

Happening and the Ben Vaughn combo.

And the label gave [music] the BMX

Bandits their first break.

I'm so happy the love has come around.

I'm [music]

so happy about the girl.

Come back in.

Well,

um, we made up a little cassette, BMX

Bandits, and I thought I'm going to give

this to people who music has inspired

me. And one of the people um, I gave it

to was Steven Pastel. Next time I bumped

into him, he said, "Oh, I really liked

really like the cassette you gave me.

It's just that new label, and I'd like

you to be one of the first groups on

it." And we were like, "Yes, yes. It's

incredible." Well, I feel Douglas's

music has always been under acknowledged

and it's been seen as a kind of comedy,

light-hearted slapstick thing, but I I

think their music is a real work.

[music]

I think we've always went out our way to

try and confuse even right down to the

artwork of some things. I mean, that

first BMX Bandits cover, it was thrown

together in the kitchen and we were

rolling about because it was so bad. We

were laughing at it going like stick

your face in a star. And it looks so

bad.

The star was basically we bought the 66

Sputnik single.

Oh god. That's right. We shot out the

star from the 66 but single and you and

I went up to the photo booth in the post

office, took a photograph and stuck my

face in it and went that'll be a good

cover.

And I think it was sounds

were like this is possibly the worst

record ever made. You know, these boys

need to eat their porridge and this is

real garbage. You know, I was delighted.

I would carry a copy with me everywhere

and if I met and they was like, "Wait to

see this review we got for single." And

I think people would expect to read,

"This is genius. What a wonderful

debut." And they'd be like, "Right."

[music]

Do you remember going down to do a

Janice Long session for the BBC and we

didn't even have a drum kit, so we

played the floor?

Yeah. Well, that was amazing thing when

that all started when John Peele picked

up on us and um Janice Long picked up on

you and I think that that really helped

as well in those days like suddenly

thinking that what we were doing in our

bedrooms was getting played all over the

age

and kind of meeting obviously went along

but we were kind of fearless.

The underground scene converged every

second Sunday at a club in the center of

Glasgow run by Bobby Gillespie and a

group of friends.

[music]

They called it Splash One after a 13th

floor elevator [music] song.

from your eyes just flashing [music]

into mind.

There you would meet all your friends,

all [music] your friends that you were

going to be friendly with at some point

and it was just a haven

and it was almost to us it felt like the

first place in Glasgow where a big

percentage of audience weren't sort of

the enemy.

Driven by the desire [music] to share

music and promote bands, it lasted for

only a year, but was a catalyst [music]

for bringing like-minded music fans

together. It just became quite obvious

that there was no sort of place that we

could a listen to the music we liked and

b see the bands that were starting to

emerge. So, we sort of thought about,

well, what's a way of doing something

ourselves that was quite influential,

Sonic Youth at Splash One or whatever.

And you know that sense of like that

Glasgow could be somewhere that could be

the center of something.

We got just over 200 people attended the

first night. So there was certainly

obviously an appetite for it.

You would be sort of walking around too

and you saw these really cool looking

posters, you know, splash one

psychedelic punk rock happening. started

all these amazing colors like bright

oranges you know beautiful pinks and

bright purples and things like you know

everybody get involved in it including

the the bands and the design of it

Steven did that the pastors did designed

their own poster

I did the the shop assistance one which

actually you know you can see the

cracking of the the electric set here

they had these kind of quite iconic you

know pictures on it I think when we

played there they had um Edie Sedwick

and it just looked it was all the kind

of the right sort of images really.

Bobby did that one that was a real issue

because rather controversially we used a

you know a Hitler youth and of course

behind that girl's head is a big

swastika and at the last minute we

decided just to superimpose a a model's

head on top of [laughter] it probably

rather wisely.

Those posters drew a group of people

together who I guess all became pretty

close.

[music]

No one could be asked really playing

vinyl records cuz everyone just wanted

to get high and just get off with girls

really. You know what I mean? So we

thought right let's make up compilation

C90 tapes. [music]

Just a crazy mixture of music actually

as well. Old kind of punk stuff and

psychedelic 60s stuff. Some Velvet

Morning Nancy Sonat and Lee Hobbit

stands.

I remember the time we put on Ride of

the Varies from uh by Vagna followed by

Tomorrow Belongs to Me from the

soundtrack of Cabaret.

Couple of people did dance in that

record. I must admit, you know,

you were getting four hours of Paul

Tom's great music all for two quid.

Bobby Gillespy's connections with Alan

McGee gave them access to the creation

roster, but the support often came from

local bands like the Pastals and BMX

Bandits and the Soup Dragons who played

their first ever gig there supporting

Primal Scream.

Like, right, we've got a gig. Oh,

brilliant man this Sunday at Splash One.

What?

And then I realized that we'd never ever

played a gig before.

[music]

[music]

first song it's like [music]

so it's totally mad like we sort of

start playing everyone goes mental [ __ ]

like what the [ __ ] is this you know

[music]

that seemed like the moment where it all

sort of came together.

Shoot Dragons played again and then the

BMX Bandits played again.

It's funny when we both started having

kind of that level of interesting

success. It was almost like Norman and

taking a wee break at first and then I

think he was like, "Wait a minute. I'm

missing out here. I'm getting back into

this."

Norman recruited Joe from the BMX

Bandits and artist Jim Lambi to form the

boy hairdressers with former gods for

all occasions guitarist Raymond McInley.

Thing is, I don't think I've really felt

the light bulb moment with punk. My dad

worked with this guy who had a massive

record collection and he gave me these

records that were like Hawaiian guitar

records and musicals and all sorts of

mad stuff. Doris Day records, whatever,

eclectic mix of all these things.

I spent all my teenage years in

orchestras. The reason I ended up

playing the bass was Norman. His theory

was you play the violin. It's got four

strings, so you should be able to play

the bass. Didn't have a drummer. And uh

I said, "There's this we guy and he's

he's brilliant. He's in the concert

band. Can play anything, you know." He

was a we little 14-year-old specker guy

at the back. Not that I'm speechist. And

I got him along to Norman's granny's.

They all had a certain taste in

contemporary indie music, should we call

it. So me turning up from my first

rehearsal wearing my squeeze t-shirt was

probably there was probably a bit of all

right, we'll need to sort that out.

We had a regular rehearsal for a while

which was 9:00 in the morning on a

Saturday morning. It was it was tough

and we did a lot of I mean great shows.

We played in London with dinosaur before

they had the junior. I think when we

were tour, we had task from the stage.

Can anybody put us up tonight, please?

You know, that was before we played our

last song. I mean, it was that we just

wanted to do music.

The Bells Hill Collective shared

everything. Ideas, instruments, band

members, setting a template they would

follow to this day.

Boy hairdressers and the BMX Bandits

were rehearsing at Norman Blake's

grandmother's house. So, the BMX Bandits

had some kind of rehearsal. Douglas sang

some new song he'd written. And then

it's, okay, it's time for the boy

hairdressers rehearsal now. So, so

Douglas sat down. Joe went from guitar

to bass. Someone left, someone came in

and now we were the boy hairdresser.

[laughter]

And Joe was a great keyboard player. So

they wanted a bit of punk rock guitar.

Then Norman would come in and do that.

And just everybody kind of mocked in.

You know, there wasn't really any master

plan. Not that I know of. Well, if there

was, nobody told me.

born in Cton in the shadow of the barrel

landing. One day my brothers left the

house to go out in a Saturday night and

I went in and I found orange juice blue

boy sitting on the record player. So I

put the needle on it and then it was

kind of an epiphany moment.

Eugene Kelly was an integral part of the

Glasgow scene. He'd played Splash Run

with his band, The Famous Monsters, and

appeared with the BMX Bandits and the

Pastals.

Eugene Kelly is a charmer, I think you

would say, a kind of modernday [music]

raffles type figure.

Eugene's always looked the part. I

remember Eugene playing violin with the

pastels. When Eugene can't play a

violin, but he looked great playing it.

his commitment was even too kind of

lacadasical for for us even

every time we come back from school play

guitar um at one point only I just had

the neck of guitar not even a full

guitar and I used to stand in the mirror

like you could only see the neck of the

guitar [laughter]

before I knew I'd written a few ideas I

mean the words are terrible the first

one is about

Henry Matis the painter from France

called Sunday painter and remember

teacher see me writing the j and taking

out and reading out for everybody and

having a good laugh. [laughter]

I mean, you just watched Help and the

Beatles and you thought you want to have

a mop top and run about and have

adventures. I didn't think it was

possible to even sort of be in a band or

meet people who be a band or have a

record deal or have a hit record. That

was kind of science fiction. [music]

[music]

I saw him on the bus going to school and

then I went to a party with my sister

and uh Eugene was there with his brother

and I said to my [music] sister that I

keep seeing him on the bus. So I made

sure I spoke to him and after I had

sufficient [music]

amount of cider and um and he was very

koi. He played hard to get.

That was how it all kind of began. The

coiness ebed away a little bit.

[music]

You are the only one and no one else

will take my place.

[music]

We had a few names, but I used to

[music] always put Vaseline on my lips.

And we were in the pub one night and

Steven said, "Oh, bit of Vaselines." And

we just went, "That's brilliant."

We weren't proper musicians. We were not

as skilled in any way compared to a lot

of the guys from Bell's Hill. I mean, it

was a bit of a con. We thought, do we

are we really a proper band? Steven took

the Vaselines under his wing and they

began to gig regularly with the Pastals.

He was talking to people in the

television personalities and that was

bands that we really liked. And it's

like suddenly these people are real.

[music]

[music]

[music]

songs are kind of inspired by us being a

couple,

you know, famous monster [ __ ] one was

literally a kitten that hid under my

floorboards and I said this this is and

it came out at night to eat. So this is

huge cat is going to just come out of

the cupboard and eat as one.

[music]

escaping

on my mind.

Although they are heavily cited by many

people as an influence at the time, I

don't think that many people were

interested in them. Myself and Jim Lambi

had a club in Glasgow. It was called

Pink Swastika. We put the Vaselines on

and there were maybe 10 people there and

I think we probably couldn't even afford

to pay them with the 15 quid or

whatever.

It was amazing actually that that people

stood and and watched and seemed to like

it. To be honest, we were very good.

[laughter]

That was them. That was This is That was

as good as it got. And it was great

[music]

Musk needon. It is the Jesus and Mary

chain and the common out Scotland.

Mary chain were just perverse. You know,

we're not remotely like the sex pistols

and don't particularly like them. They

were just denouncing all of these kind

of uh you know sacred cows of of punk

rock. You know,

Joy Division were particularly awful

though. Joy Division were [ __ ] Joy

Division were [ __ ] rubbish.

When somebody would ask me about Joy

Division, they would say, "Oh, Joy

Division are shite." You know, like it's

like, "You don't say that."

I don't even like us being mentioned in

the same sentence as Joy Division.

Don't even talk about Joy Division. Oh

god. What was wrong about Joy Division?

They were really important as far as

like putting, you know, Scotland on this

kind of radical rock and roll map.

By now, the Mary chain, although still

on creation, were being wooed by the

majors, which suited their ambition.

We're a very commercial group. We've got

eye on the charts.

You want to be as popular as for

instance, the Rolling Stones.

More popular. I was on a enterprise

allowance scheme that you got 40 quid a

week from so they could take you as a

statistic off the dole and uh so I

didn't have any money. I was just a

working class kid living in London and I

didn't have any money to shell out and I

think they got 70 grand off a Jeff uh to

sign to Warner Brothers.

Allan [music] stayed on as their manager

and the Mary chains first album on

Warner Brothers, Psycho Candy, was

crowned [music] album of the year by the

enemy.

By that time, you know, the single was

out. Know the fever feverish Russian

buzz of the papers that then created a

bit of a buzz.

[music]

[music]

The fourth single, Some Candy Talking,

broke into the charts, reaching number

13.

And at number two in the indie charts,

were the Soup Dragons. Things had moved

quickly for them since Splash One. It

just felt a bit of a roller coaster cuz

we're just obviously buzzed by the fact

we actually had a a single out and

people were liking it. We did a video

which cost £100 of somebody fondling

Daffy Duck through a box and it took an

hour to make and um the chart showed it

and then this guy who used to co-manage

Ham Jazz Summers saw it and asked to

manag

I mean he was great you know he just

done Ham in China and all this stuff and

it was like off the scale. They're like,

"Fuck, who's this guy?" You know what?

Why is he interested in us? You know,

with his hitmaking pedigree, Jazz Summer

spotted the Soup Dragon's potential and

gave them their own offshoot label, Raw

TV, and the band were featured on the

NME's Seinal C86 cassette released in

July of that year.

It marked a watershed in the transition

of independent music from late night

radio towards daytime and paved the way

for the Brit pop explosion a few years

later. And the new Scottish wave were to

the four, the McKenzies, the close

lobsters, the shop assistants, the

pastals of course. And it launched

Primal Scream on the world. We used to

have moments like this where we would

write these brilliant songs just spur of

the moment in the studio. We make them

up create them and it was just onal kind

of thing. It just happened naturally. As

Jim Morrison once said the the music's

writing itself, you know, that's what it

was almost like.

The pressure was now on Primal Scream to

build on the momentum of C86.

But Bobby continued to divide his time

between them and the Mary chain who were

about to tour America. I'd say the

friction really came in when they asked

him to join Jesmer

and we were all I think we're going to

lose a lead singer.

We didn't like it. Beating Robert and I,

you know, we we thought, you know,

you're either in the scream or you're no

and we actually forced him into a

decision.

Bobby wanted to do his own thing and do

Primal Scream.

We were all really upset, but it was

probably inevitable. You know, Bobb's a

kind of natural frontman really, you

know. You know, it changed after he

left. Of course, it would, you know,

with new drummer John Moore in tow, the

Mary chain set off for the States.

America at that time, they couldn't

handle the fact we only did 15 minutes.

They had to have big signs up everywhere

saying, "Warning, this band, we only

play 20 minutes, no refunds."

Can you imagine playing in small town

America and think to the promoter we

only play 20 minutes? I mean, it's like

it's like pissing on the American flag

or something, you know? You know, it was

that confrontational.

But I'm really proud of the fact that we

had the guts to tour the whole of

America only playing 15 20 minutes. And

literally people in the record company

would come and get down on our knees and

beg us not to do it. We just think,

"Fuck,

[ __ ] you.

So when I was with them in New York

walking around and you know some car

would go by and they'd roll their window

open and they would yell at the marriage

chain like you know some kind of thing

like you know punk rock [ __ ] or

something like that which I remember

happening the the Reed brothers just

like [ __ ] you come here I'll [ __ ]

kick your [ __ ] ass [clears throat]

you know like I was like no don't do

that they were just [ __ ] tough as

nails

none of us were really natural

performers and it brought pressures Even

if it was everything you ever wanted,

it's a difficult thing to deal with. Jim

and William and that kind of clung

together in the face of that and that's

probably why they got rid of Allan.

Well, they both sacked me.

It was in a Wendy Burgerer. [laughter]

I I would have probably been against it,

but

I could take everything else, but we're

number five in the charts or something

at the time, you know. Helped in some

part by the success of C86 in which

several of their bands had featured,

Creation themselves were now stalwarts

of the increasingly more mainstream

indie scene.

I always hated the idea of indie. I just

thought it sounded really kind of

underachieving and annoying and um but

independent meant quite a lot. You know,

that that that was the kind of means by

which you created your work. independent

of corporate money.

53rd and third had released the boy

hairdresser's first single and went on

to sign the Vaselines

and turn around [music]

and again

I mean when I first heard Son of a Gun

to me I was like that seems like a

really cool iconic record. I don't think

I've made a record like that yet.

It was Steven that [music] got us into

the studio. We'd never been in the

studio before and he really held our

hand all the way through that.

If it wasn't for him, you know, we

[music] would have uh sounded like Jiran

Giran. Maybe

I remember really being intrigued by

what was going on in in Glasgow at the

time because they sounded more away from

the the kind of celebrity limelight of

London and so that there's there's

there's a bit of more of this kind of

like artful desperation going on there

and uh there was a sense of just this

kind of really economic kind of

recording technique techniques. I saw

that being a real influence on that

scene around K Records and what what

Kelvin Johnson was was was into with his

own music

back

on fire.

[music]

As well as fronting beat happening,

Calvin Johnson ran Washingtonbased

underground label K Records.

He and Steven shared a similar DIY

philosophy.

sent top over tower.

Don't go sour. Yeah. Yeah. [music]

In

many ways, Calvin Johnson was possibly

the Steven Pastel of their scene and

that he turned them on to music that was

happening in in the UK that they

probably would never have heard.

And that became really influential out

of K to the rest of America. You know,

the American underground. You know,

certainly, you know, a band like the the

Vaselines were their first records were

just so jarring and great, you know,

that, you know, later on when a band

like Nirvana would sort of cover these

songs, it was just like it didn't seem

like they were trying to be too cool for

school by covering some underground

Scottish bands music, it was just we all

had those records.

Nirvana would go on to cover a few

Vaseline songs, including their tribute

to Scottish actress Molly Weir.

the horn that was uh now we have to play

every night and it was Steven's idea.

It just said, "Oh, we think a bicycle

horn would sound really good in this."

I think at that point the engineer

rolled his eyes in disbelief.

The thing about that was it wasn't even

a proper horn. We had to because the

horn has two noises as an in and an out.

So we had to sample it and play the

first sound twice.

[music]

We were there. We were visionaries.

As for the pastals, they'd left creation

and were on the brink of releasing their

first critically acclaimed album.

I mean, I think Alan McGee thought when

he cast us a drift that, you know, our

career would suddenly stop. But the best

music we we made, you know, in the 80s

was for Glass Records and we were kind

of left to get on with it [music]

ourselves.

If I could [singing]

you

[music]

did it in Lamington Spa just away from

everything. And

that did kind of uh change things cuz it

was quite serious. It was really really

hard work. It was the first time we had

a proper budget. Insisted that things

were in time and in tune which was a

novelty.

That was um less fun cuz before it was

just the band really. We were kind of in

charge but once you've got a producer it

changes the dynamics.

It wasn't what we'd wanted to make. Um

and I think that was overall kind of

what we came away uh from that with

which is maybe a bit of a shame. And

also we were all living together for a

prolonged period. It certainly starts to

get tension because if things aren't

working out, everybody gets a bit kind

of because you've only got a set amount

of time. So it puts a lot more pressure

on the group as a whole.

[music]

Also embarking on their first album were

Primal Scream, now on Creation Offshoot,

Elevation.

As it turned out, it wasn't all really

for the best really. You know, it was

really the ending of Primal Scream. As

soon as we all signed it, it just all

went horribly wrong.

I was bobbied out like, you know, I'd

had too much of him and a hard guy to

put up with. It was his way of the

highway. Bobby just wasn't happy with

the personnel, you know, he wanted his

own end people like

basically just whis away in a mini bus

to Rockfield Studios in Deep as Wales

big kind of professional studios. We

hadn't been in places like that before.

So that was a bit of a kind of jump that

had been talking about a couple of

different producers, you know, but we

ended up with Steven Street. Some reason

him and Bobby just didn't see it eye. It

didn't help when Bobby spelled a cup of

coffee over the mixing desk, you know.

And I remember him playing it and asking

Bobby what he thought and Bobby kind of

saying he hated it basically. And at

that point, I remember Steven Street

[ __ ] walking out the door and

slamming the slamming the door behind

him. And I actually think, you know,

looking at Sonic Groove, you know, Sonic

Flower Groove, you know, it came out

overproduced. It kind of killed the

songs in a way, you know, yet a lot of

the songs were really good pop songs

live. It just goes to show you big

budget, big producer doesn't always make

out a great record.

It ended in all of us in Union Street in

Glasgow and we had a meeting. We were

all there. It was a a case

we're not we're no happy with with the

level of drumming that's that's on the

album kind of thing, you know, and

and we're going to let you go.

It was a massive blow. I mean, I loved

being in that band, you know, and to be

a part of something and then to be

suddenly kind of told that you're no

longer wanted or you're no longer a

party is quite a difficult thing to deal

with.

That's the kind of rock and roll world,

you know, it just moves on

leaves its casualties behind.

Quite happy. Sil,

can we go on to the next song now?

Right. This next track is going to be on

our fourthcoming album, [ __ ] Off by the

Soup Dragons.

It's got a nice ring.

I better edit this bit out of the TV

show, you know.

[music]

We knew we were getting better as we

were going on. You know, all these major

record companies came out the woodwork

and wanted to sign us

[music and singing]

with the guidance of Jazz Summers. The

Soup Dragon star continued to rise.

[music] In an ambitious move, they

released their first album on American

label sire, a major with indie

credentials.

The Ramones were on sire. The Undertones

are on sire. Madonna was on sire. So, it

was like, "Yep, that'll do for us."

We could see things happening and we

were playing tours of the UK and we were

playing Glastonbury and we had roadies.

People actually tuned their guitars for

us and drove us about and booked us into

bed and breakfast. So we were kind of

living the dream.

[music]

Kingdom Chairs was the first official

sire release, which meant it was going

to go in the official top 40 chart. So

that's when alarm bell started ringing

maybe with her record company saying,

"Oh, we didn't get a hit."

That was when Ross made the decision

that he wanted to carry on his degree.

Ashan was definitely the leader. I mean,

he had a focused idea of how he wanted

the songs to sort of be and sound and

he's like telling Jim what to play and

he's trying to tell me what to play and

all that creates a bit of tension. But

he was writing all the songs so clearly

he was the main guy.

He had this sort of vision for sort of

some sound that I think at that time he

couldn't quite put his finger on. So

that sort of forced my hand a wee bit.

So suddenly we were drummerless

and I kind of in a way it was the end of

that soup dragons. That's when they kind

of started to slowly pull the plug on

it. You know,

it was a time of transition for the

Glasgow scene with some things reaching

their natural conclusion.

The fun had just went out of primal

school. Bad vibes, arguments starting.

It wasn't a good place to be. And it all

came to head in that end of uh June

tour.

Bobby and Bey and Robert were just kind

of shouting and banging doors and I just

decided then then I thought I can't be

bothered by these people, you know, they

just know my pals anymore. They say,

"Look, tomorrow night's my last ever."

So that was it.

But I decided to get my sty gear on, you

know, and just give it a last good 37

minutes of tambourine action, you know.

That was it. After 3 years, it was all

over again.

Founder Jim Bey left sin after two,

leaving Primal Scream with only two of

its original members.

By 1988, the Scots American June Pool of

53rd and Third had produced around 30

discs, and the Vaselines were preparing

to release an album.

So, we had to knuckle down and create

more songs.

All the songs were new. All the songs

were new. We'd never gigged them.

And it was kind of made up as we went

along in the studio.

But the the the thing that's is

lyrically, it's really fantastic. You

know, they spent maybe they didn't spend

a lot of time, but whatever. Maybe it

was easy for them.

We were writing lyrics on the train and

you know well we need lyrics for this

song.

We didn't think like dum dum was going

to be our defining statement about the

vast lanes.

We started drifting apart Francis and I.

So the band was over by the time the

record came out.

The Vaseline's Dum Dum album was the

last record to be released on 53rd and

Third. Steven disbanded the label, but

not before it had [music] turned the

dream into reality for many bands.

It wasn't built to last. It kind of felt

a bit kind of mission [music] complete.

You know, you can seize the moment when

you you know, you you're not [music]

even aware that there is a a moment. You

know,

he unlocked the door for a lot of us.

It's not this all about a bunch of ANR

guys who, you know, seem to come from

some sort of alien world. It seems like

a guy who's not that different from us

in some ways um has kind of unlocked

this um a key to a kind of this amazing

magic kingdom that we are now allowed to

come in and be part of.

The BMX Bandits carried on that

momentum, bringing out their own

self-funded C86 album, an ironic dig at

the enemy cassette from which they'd

been excluded.

But fellow 53rd and Third Stablemates,

The Boy Hairdressers, had fizzled out.

By this point, me and Norman are both on

the door. I remember Norman phoning me

one day and I come up with this idea. on

it to Bell's Hill and it it kind of

rolled out of bed and played most of

what was Everything Flows.

[music]

Kidage fan club. Who are they? I don't

know. I really It's really difficult to

describe your own band and something

that you've been part of for a long

time. Who are they? [laughter] What are

they all about?

[music] get older every year.

I think Teenage Fan Club are one of the

greatest Scottish groups ever. I mean, I

think their sense of pop is a is

outrageous. And they've got Norman

Blake, one of the great songwriters.

Maybe our generation's Neil Young.

From the word go, they adopted a

democratic approach with all band

members sharing the songwriting.

Norman was very encouraging of myself

and Brendan and Raymond come up with

ideas, but it definitely made it more

interesting as [music] a as a sound, you

know, hearing maybe different people's

ideas of what a song might be. Certain

bands seem ridiculous to us. This kind

of 80s cliche of the one person at the

front and then the three out focus

people at the back. And the more

interesting things are things where the

band is a collection of different

people's personalities and you allow

those people's personalities to express

themselves. They weren't saying we're

going to make demos. They were saying

we're going to make an album. It was

quite a kind of confident approach.

So, we just booked a studio, sold some

stuff to make the I had I had inherited

a fridge from a neighbor who died and

sold that and we went and made a

Catholic education.

And then at that point, Francis uh went

to university and so we met Brendan

O'Hare who then joined the band.

[music]

Up to that point, the record had been a

project. When Brendan got involved, it

was a band.

[music]

[music]

That band went on to sell millions of

records worldwide. But right from the

start, Teenage Fan Club made it clear

they'd pursue success on their own

terms. [music] want to hurt you. Oh

yeah.

The Genius fan club, they were never

really like a careerminded [music]

band. They just like wanted to play.

I don't think any of us were kind of

measuring, you know, success by record

sales or by kind of columnies in the the

press.

The way we've worked is we never really

tell people to [ __ ] off. We just kind of

listen to them politely and then we

[music] go and do what we want. And we

just kind of followed that template ever

since.

[music]

As the '9s approached, the musical

landscape changed irrevocably for the

indie scene when the worlds of guitar

and dance collided.

At that time, everybody was obsessed

with dance culture because dance culture

in Britain, it just went ballistic.

[music]

Still without a drummer, the Soup

Dragons released a promo in '89,

reworking a track Shawn had written a

few years earlier.

[music]

remember sitting in Jim's bedroom and

like mother will like playing mother

universe everyone playing guitars and

like singing and we harmony vocals and

stuff and it and it wasn't like a

crossover between anything this and

that. It was just like Sean's vision you

know of what he wanted [music]

[singing]

in the universe. [music]

We decided to use a sampler and drum

machines and it was just like all of a

sudden I could make the records that was

going on in my head and suddenly all

these DJs that we'd never heard of, you

know, it was like a whole new world was

opened up to, you know, cuz up until

then we were just an indie guitar band.

Hot on the heels of the Soup Dragons

were Primal Scream Mark 2. With the help

of producer Andy Weatherall, they also

transitioned from Indie to dance.

We met Andy Weather and then the rest is

history. We knew the chronology of it

and when you're actually in the middle

of it all, you could see well we know

the order of it and stuff. So, but you

just have to you can't do anything about

it.

The Primals may have got the credit, but

it was the Soup Dragons who had paved

the way.

I'm free to do what I want any [music]

old time.

They struck gold with I'm free, a

Rolling Stones cover which rocketed to

number five in the charts. [music]

It was a Stones concert that had been on

the night before and we just started

jamming that in the studio and it just

sort of grew from that.

We were just like, let's put 8 minutes

of a drum groove down and invent a

record on top, [music]

right? Let's make this section the kind

of Jimmyi Hendricks guitar section.

[music]

And then it was like, let's get a gospel

choir.

[music]

And then when we finished it, we played

it to the record label and the girl from

the record label started crying as she

heard it cuz she just thought it was

like this most amazing record she'd ever

heard. And that's made us all kind of

sit there and go, "Shit, what have we

just done?" I said I'm free [music] to

do what I want. Do what I want.

You know, we never made any money out

I'm free because the Rolling Stones

would wouldn't give us a percentage on

it. But we didn't realize that that

record was going to go to sell millions

of copies. We just said, "Okay, put it

out." It was in the top 40 for 18 weeks.

When you have such a big hit record, you

enter a world which is completely

bizarre. You know, you do things like

TV. It must have been a a car crash that

program that morning. We'd been played

Brixton Academy the night before.

So, we'd been out clubbing and it was

about 5:00 in the morning when we found

out we were on TVM. So, you can imagine

what state we were in. It was

entertaining. It was me and Lorraine

Kelly. Oh, you're from Bel. I'm from

East Bride and I'd be sitting going

[laughter]

[music]

Yeah, it was quite depressing, you know,

just not making music and watching your

friends getting on, being a bit more

successful. And I was working in a pub

uh in Juke Street up the East End and I

was on my break and I walked by a a TV

shop with a wall of TVs and it was the

Suit Dragons performing I'm free like

sort of their big hit single. So it felt

kind of you know everybody else was had

taken a step uh up and I had just

regressed back into the bedroom.

But then the unexpected happened. About

to embark on a British tour, Nirvana

called to ask if the Vaselines would

reform and support them in Edinburgh.

So you phon me up and was like, "Do you

want to play this show? There's a band

called Nana that that seemed to be

playing one of our songs."

We uh rehearsed in Francis's uh front

room on acoustic guitars and then

borrowed all Teenage Fan Club's electric

guitars and amps.

I'd grabbed Eugene. was like, "You need

to go over these songs with me cuz I

haven't a clue how to play them." And so

we're sitting trying to to play I can't

remember what song. And Kirk came by and

I thought, "Oh, he's going to think

we're idiots. We [laughter] can't play

our music. This is terrible." So getting

really embarrassed about about it all,

but little known to me at the time that

he was kind of in awe of us.

Yeah. I I was there the night that

Eugene met Kabain for the first time and

I remember um Kabain saying, "Oh, wow.

Eugene Kelly. I can't believe I'm

meeting Eugene Kelly. I'm such a big

fan. It was really was you could tell he

was kind of blown away by meeting

Eugene.

To find out that your music had traveled

to America and there were some people

there enjoying it, that was quite a

buzz.

The band started [music] off as a bunch

of friends playing music like every

other [ __ ] band in the world. And it

ended the same way every other [ __ ]

band in the world ends up. You know,

you're no longer friends [music] and you

hate the music. So, you'll leave.

I think there always comes a time when

it's no longer as it was. And as soon as

it's [music] not fun, then it's not fun

anymore. Don't do it.

the start of a new decade [music] and

the original Pastel's lineup had run its

course.

I think in your 20ies you've got you're

dynamic and at the same time really

touchy about about things, you know, you

um so then and I think when you become

slightly older, you you learn how to

collaborate better and you learn how to

accommodate different people and

you kind of use each other up.

Bernice and I were sacked.

Um,

and Brian left soon after that. That's

how that worked.

I think that group had come to the end

of its kind of natural life anyway.

Things had fallen apart by that point.

We were barely even talking to each

other. That was pretty much it. You

know, we had a lot of good laughs along

the way in the early days when we were

all good mates. It wasn't the same band.

Um, but these things happen that

it was probably far better for Steven as

well to go off and do the pastels with

people that he had more in common with

and that they all got on better.

[music]

Steven carried on with the band, taking

Aggie with him.

But it was when Katrina Mitchell joined

the following year that the Pastoral's

lineup crystallized, and she and Steven

remain the nucleus of the band to this

day. [music]

[music]

[music]

1991 was the year creation made it big

with the release of Screamadelica.

It won the Mercury Music Prize and would

be commemorated on a first class stamp.

They were now part of the establishment.

Perhaps we made happen what should have

happened for postcard. Perhaps it's

because we we were prepared to move

around. We weren't sitting in the west

end of Glasgow for the rest of our

lives. We were in London. We were in LA.

We were in New York. We were everywhere.

Bandwagesque, the best album in 1991.

They come from Scotland. They're here

performing. What you do to me? Teenage

[cheering] F.

[music]

And they masterminded the rapid success

of Teenage Fan Club, commissioning their

breakthrough album, Bandwagonesesque,

which took the states by storm. [music]

People at the label were getting really

upset because they weren't really taking

it seriously. They were just like

showing up at a television station and

have, you know, and getting pissed and

going out there. And we were backstage

and kind of just sitting around and he

said, "Yeah, are you guys not freaked

out?" And we no because we had no idea

what it was, you know. He said, "This is

going to live to like what you know."

Yeah.

It was just west coast pop done via

Glasgow. But what a band.

We kind of figured they would be a very

small time kind of thing, but the first

recordings they did to a certain degree

exploded.

We toured with Nirvana and that was

incred to sort of witness a phenomenon

like that.

They were really big news for us because

there all of a sudden there was this

band that was just like writing these

great songs where they were kind of

namechecking big star, you know, these

kind of American pop uh bands that

weren't really front page news at all.

Cult US band Big Star and lead singer

Alex Chilton had been an influence on

the Glasgow scene for years. And he'd

found his spiritual home there.

Alex played a show at Glasgow Tech. I

can't quite remember the year. What year

was it, Douglas?

1989.

89 was it?

89.

89. So, yeah. So, we we saw Alex Chelton

play Glasgow Tech in 1989. I think

straight away there was just something

that um he made a connection with people

in Glasgow. I don't know if it was

something sort of sense of humor.

I tried to sign him a few times and then

it got so weird that I think Alex

Chelton thought he was signed to me cuz

he used to phone me up and go, I'm in

Detroit. Can you get somebody to move my

gear to Philadelphia and and I would

still do it even though he wasn't on my

label. [music]

What the [ __ ] is that?

The strong bond between the American and

Scottish underground scenes was played

out on a worldwide stage when the by now

stratospherically popular Nirvana played

the reading festival.

It was the night before reading

festival. So there was Sonic youth

there. Nirvana were all hanging out and

a few of us decided to go to the

festival. Eugene had just turned up his

little backpack and it's like, Eugene,

do you want to come on and sing with us?

[music] And I was like, why not?

Remember walking onto [music] the stage

from the back and didn't have my glasses

on and I could see the sea of pink and

[music] I didn't realize what it was

until I kind of came into focus and it

was the audience just going for miles.

[music and singing]

And I I I could see in C's face he was

like I am singing baseline songs with

Fugi Kelly.

[music]

I think I was on you know cloud nine

floating about the rest of the

[cheering] festival.

That same year, it looked like the BMX

Bandits were about to have their long

overdue breakthrough when they too

signed a creation.

I'd been put on anti-depressants and I

was dating a girl uh who was a medical

student who sort of said, "You don't

need the anti-depressants. You know what

you need is love. That'll that'll heal

you." And then cut to a month later, she

was like, "You need some stronger

tablets." And and I thought,

although it was kind of slightly tragic,

I couldn't help but see some sort of

funny side of this. And I think about

7:00 in the morning, I phoned up Norman

and I was going, I've got an idea for a

song and sang it down the phone to him.

And the reason I ended up singing it was

because of the key that it was in. So it

came together really quickly. Um, I

think that's why it's so good.

[music] I said, "I don't think I can

take it much longer." She [music] said,

"Maybe your tablet should be stronger.

[singing] Get some serious."

Alan McGee [music] was coming up to hear

some new demos. And assumed it was

Teenage Fan Club. And he was like, "This

has got to be a single." And Nor [music]

was like, "That's not Teenage Fan Club.

That's BMX Bandits." And Alan was like,

"I want every single person behind this

track. [music]

Why did I do it? Because I love Douglas

Stewart. Big Douglas genius.

So when that was our first release on

Creation, all of a sudden on Creation

and releasing a really credible single

and was single of the weekend enemy and

Mel all that

radio producers were all like record of

the week. That's amazing. Yeah. A play

last and then radio one had their

anti-drugs week the week it was released

and suddenly they were like it's our

anti-drugs week. We cannot have a

single. But the hook line is get some

serious drugs. So it got banned by radio

one. And unlike what happened to Frankie

goes to Hollywood or Tim, getting banned

did not take us straight to the top. It

made it kind of go.

[music]

Everybody hated us until we made serious

drugs. All the critics hated us. It's so

bizarre that because the Super Dragons

definely for a while you were like the

most loved band.

But then when you actually have a hit

record off your own back not following

what they want you to follow that's when

it all

yeah it turn

drastically wrong you know cuz it's it's

all about um control.

People always said that the suit dragons

had jumped on this this ind wagon thing

the NME cuz we were still the little C86

band they turned against us. So the best

thing that we did is we just thought

soldi we got to America.

So it was really refreshing just to get

away from it and go to a country that

just took us for what we were you know I

remember going through immigration and

the guy opened my passport and he went

from that psychedelic band and I

remember thinking that's the coolest

thing anybody's ever said to me.

[music]

And we spent the next two years in

America touring and selling a lot of

records.

Maybe the hottest musical import from

Scotland since Bag Pipes performing

divine thing from their CD Hotwired.

These are the soup dragons.

You are the one supreme. [music]

Divine Thing was a top 40 hit in the

States and led to a US stadium tour.

Just any dream

toured with knows. You need to go on the

Letterman show. You need to go on

Letterman show. And then all of a sudden

they got the call like you got

Letterman. You've got Letterman.

The Soup Dragon.

[music]

[singing]

Suddenly you're playing basketball

arenas every night which kind of look

the same. You can understand why people

get you know drug addictions and you

know mine was margaritas. I I was

drinking a bowl of tequila a night.

We're over in America for like months

and months on end living in you know

tour buses and stuff like that. It was a

bit pressure cooker just started to fall

apart a we bit.

Basically I remember coming home one day

[music] to a letter that said that Jim

Sashil and Paul had left the band.

It was a pretty hideous [music] time.

So that's basically it was a a bit of a

messy divorce, but you know, we're we're

all back and speaking terms again.

It's a bit of a bittersweet period of

[music] the sugar crowds,

but Teenage [music] Fan Club were still

riding high in the States. Spin

magazine, where Orange Juices [music]

Steven Daly was lead writer, had voted

bandwagones their number one album of

the year. and their [music] next album

13 had just been released.

I mean, anything was possible that time.

You know, there was a time where we, you

know, we signed with like Geffin Records

and Nana had broken. They were saying,

"Oh, you're going to be next." And

you're thinking, "Well, if all this has

happened up tonight, why not?" But there

was a massive difference between the way

Allan conducted business, uh, which is

like madness, you know, compared to the

structure of of Geffin.

They had a different idea of what the

band was about. I think they wanted to

make us a more of a mainstream pop band.

They uh and that wasn't really how we

saw ourselves, you know.

But 13 didn't charm the critics in the

way the previous album had.

We've never been the kind of people that

are going to come out and say, "Oh yeah,

this new record is, you know, what you

listen to. I will just listen to my own

record because it's so good." You know,

how could I listen to anything else? You

know,

you learn how to play the game a bit

more. Obviously, if you say to someone,

"Ah, it's not very good." They write

it's not very good.

13 is a bit of a kind of reactionary

record. A lot of the songs are slightly

cynical towards our experiences in the

music biz.

We thought we could just make records

and put them out and whatever, but it

became something different. And when you

become a commodity uh to a major label,

you know, um we didn't really enjoy that

too much.

[music]

All the while keep moving on. Look at me

as if [music] there's something wrong.

Creation was now also home to Joe

Minton's solo project, Superstar. And

his album launch united all the fronts

[music] for one night only.

The fan club played, the Soup Dragons

played, the bandits played, [music] the

boy hairdressers played, and I remember

gold discs were desperately trying to

sign us at the time as well, and they

turned up with all of their staff and

kind of bags of buckfast.

Everybody ended up a we bit blastered.

That memorable night also featured

Eugene's new project named after a

Marvel Comics character. We'd given

Nirvana some Captain America t-shirts to

stay you got as a present and then next

thing CS on front of the enemy wearing

the t-shirt and they said uh you've got

48 hours of lawsuits in the post and we

had to change it.

When I was in the past they used to call

me [music] Eugene useless because I

couldn't do anything. So we came up with

a really really great name of Eugenius.

It's gone from useless to genius. The

genius takes over. or something like

that.

She kissed the sky, looked [music] it up

without a smile.

With the weight of Nirvana behind them,

Eugenia signed to a major American

label.

I think when we all started playing in

bands, I never thought I'd be sitting

here signing to Atlantic Records um on

the same label as people like B. Middler

and Ray Charles. [music]

got into, you know, we're big fancy

studios and we toured America and me and

had a great time. But that was leading

up to 94 and while on tour, uh, we had

word that Kurt had died.

Uh,

the bells,

is anybody there?

[music]

The voice of grunge music takes his own

life. Seattle's Kurt Cobain is dead of

an apparent suicide.

It was really really kind of terrible

time apart from just like losing

somebody who you thought was a friend

and you know an influence and somebody

who' really really helped me personally

to kind of achieve things in my life.

After Kurt died, the whole scene changed

and Eugenius got let go by Atlantic

Records.

[music]

We came back from a tour of Japan and we

saw uh Blur on the cover of Q magazine.

I think reading it, you sort of thought,

you know, something's changed and not

for the best. So her career was pretty

much over with the birth of Brit pop.

Brit pop was a watershed moment in the

music industry. Anthemic, ambitious, and

eager to embrace the mainstream. And the

driving force behind it was Alan McGee

and Creation Records, now home to

multi-million sellers Oasis. I mean,

it's all very well me sitting going,

"Oh, you know, like we sold 60 million

albums and you know, like we, you know,

[ __ ] we all made our fortunes." It

was it was like we never thought that

was coming

on our label. There's us, the BMX band,

that's Primal Scream, but I mean, the

label's run by a Scotsman, Alan McGee.

So, um, maybe that's why he's picked up

on a lot of Scottish bands.

Oasis are Scottish as well. potentially

Manchester [laughter] cuz they thought

it'd be cool.

With Teenage Fan Club, I think we've

been fairly lucky to never have been

seen as part of any musical movement.

I think if we we'd went on the the good

ship Brett Pot doing it. So sometimes

it's good just to avoid these things.

[music]

By now, Brendan O'Hare had left Teenage

Fan Club to be replaced by Paul Quinn.

And although their next album, Grand

Prix, was released to critical acclaim,

chart success still eluded [music] them.

They should have been vastly bigger than

they were. Maybe they dropped the ball.

Maybe we dropped the ball. Or maybe they

just didn't want it, you know. I don't

know. Alan sometimes feels that they

they weren't ruthless enough.

[music]

[singing]

feel

[music]

[music]

and we knew that you know the original

search of the group from like bandwagon

S313 idea of us possibly being a big

group was probably not going to happen

but we were quite comfortable with that

we were quite kind of headstrong in the

fact that this is our vision you know

we had no sense of careerism. I think

because of that many people recognized

the lack of desperation in us and uh

kind of like

[music]

[applause and music]

[cheering]

[music]

[music]

[singing]

I think what was happening in the

Scottish underground is always going to

be I think completely significant in the

in the story. [music] It has to be

because it was so distinct. You know,

those bands, they continue to be really

important, I think, in the literature of

radical rock and roll music. They always

will be.

The BMX Bandits continue to tour as do

[music] Teenage Fan Club, Primal Scream,

and the Pastals with a devoted following

from the States to Japan.

The Vaselines in the Mary chain have

reformed and many of the old friends

continue to share the same stage, still

outsider superstars, same as they ever

were.

[music]

I think a lot of bands

they have a time which is sort of like

the golden time for them and very often

that golden time I think is just before

we make it big. BMX bandits never quite

reached that point. We sort of started

off as outsiders and we've sort of

pretty much remained like genuine

outsiders ever since.

It's actually pretty much always felt

like it did in the early days for BMX.

It still feels like playtime. Still

[music] feels like kind of getting

together as it did when we started off

and it was Sean Norman and I [music]

sitting in this house kind of um getting

out the old tape recorder and coming up

[music] with things and laughing a lot.

Yeah. The kind of magic has never really

gone away.

I [music] can understand why it happened

so quickly for us at the time because

looking back at it now that it just it's

it's [music] kind of so unique at the

fact that there was so much energy and

just the naivity of what we were doing

at the the early days.

You can hear the friendship in those

records.

You don't feel as if you're getting any

older when you're talking to your your

friends from that point. You're [music]

just resuming a conversation you're

always having. You know, that's really

what it is.

I still think [music] that there's

always an element of stuff going a bit

haywire when the Vaselines play and that

that raw edge hopefully [music] is still

there.

I always think if you do one good song,

whether it's Smells Like Teen Spirit or

[music] whether it's Serious Drugs, if

you just do one great song and that's

you make people happy for 3 minutes,

then you've then you've done enough

anyway.

Things need to move on.

It's not necessarily that you want to

leave something behind. You're just

you're just hungry. You want to

explore [music] different things.

I never got a swimming pool or a

mansion, but I still I quite like still

being a sort of outsider.

[music]

I mean, is there any serious bits you'd

like to say? Cuz we're just having a bit

of a laugh there. Um I

mean I think we started off sort of

saying that thing of being lucky to find

each other and stuff.

Yeah, I'd like to talk more about that.

I mean, when you're still running,

[music]

she's a superstar. [music]

Minecraft

[music]

[music]

Heat.

Heat. [music]

[music]

Heat.

[music]

[music]

Heat.

[music]

Heat.

Heat. [music]

[music]

[screaming]

Heat

[music]

[music]

[music]

up

here.

Heat. Heat. [music]