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Many people...

don't like the idea

that monsters really do exist.

Monsters are made of stories, aren't they?

They're the boogeyman on the bed,

the thing in the dark that comes and takes away naughty children.

If they don't go to bed on time and fall asleep.

They're conjured up for an exciting story around the campfire,

but they don't really exist.

Werewolves and vampires and all of those things.

But actually, monsters do. And they're in human form.

They're us...

My name is Sam Vaknin.

In 1995, I established the first website

about Narcissism, pathological Narcissism.

I established the first six support groups for victims of

narcissistic abuse. Narcissistic abuse is a phrase

that I coined in 1995.

I published academic papers and I teach in various universities.

I had written and published a book, Malignant Self-love

Narcissism Revisited.

It's in its 10th edition right now.

In this sense, if you wish, I´m the grandfather of the whole thing.

Ironically, I'm a narcissist,

so I'm coping daily with my disorder.

It's an all-pervasive cancer of the soul if you wish.

I think there had been a phase in my life where I had been a malignant narcissist,

which is an antiquated name for what we call today's psychopathic narcissist.

I was very rich. I had a private jet

I was a vain twentysomething.

I bought a bank,

and then I hyped the shares of the bank.

And that's, of course, criminal.

So I went to prison.

Having emerged from there, I decided to attempt a transformation.

I started to focus on educating

victims of narcissistic abuse.

But I've been acting effectively as a healer.

I feel that I am accomplishing things.

I feel that I am making a difference.

Would I have been able to be the good

guy? Had I not been the bad guy?

I don't think so.

I think the bad guy was training for being the good guy.

Maybe there's a moral in there.

Some lesson.

In the world we live in now,

Narcissism, Narcissistic personality,

is incentivized.

It's rewarded.

The messages, especially to the young generation.

If you are a narcissist,

you're going to end up on top.

You're going to end up rich

and famous and powerful.

They can help you get dates.

It can help you get elected.

It can help people like you when they meet you.

Narcissistic people make more money.

Narcissistic people are more likely to be in leadership positions.

Narcissistic people are actually more likely to get

the romantic partners they want.

So they're kind of winning.

Narcissism is invading everything.

World leaders, corporate leaders,

celebrity leaders, healthcare professionals,

therapists. Pick an area.

Politics, show business,

mass media, the family unit,

the community, the church,

you name it.

It's everywhere.

My name is Isla Traquair

and I've been a journalist since I was 16 years old,

specializing in crime.

Hello and welcome. I'm Isla Traquair.

Police say they are not yet scaling back the search.

I have a number one podcast.

I'm well known as a true crime journalist.

I've worked all over the world,

and I've confronted quite a few killers.

Mr. Hardison, answer the question.

Did you kill your ex-boyfriend, Paige?

I'd say I've encountered

a higher-than-average number of narcissists in my life.

But this case I'm investigating currently

is a little more unusual. It's not a killer, per se.

His victims are alive,

but they've been completely annihilated.

He's abusing them mentally and physically.

And I think he's the most dangerous kind of narcissist.

I've got to try and stop this man

from hurting more women.

And I'm not sure how he would react when

or if the penny would drop.

Will he maintain the facade?

Or will he break down and lash out?

I don't know.

Narcissism is a personality style characterized

by a consistent lack of empathy,

entitlement, grandiosity, arrogance.

This sort of inflated ego,

sense of self-importance,

sense of entitlement.

I'm better than you. I'm superior to you.

They have this excessive need for admiration

and to be liked and adored.

A tendency to break into rage.

They're not about respect and compassion

and long-term consistency,

but rather they tend to be a flash in the pan,

and exist for the narcissistic person's own pleasure

or short-term interest.

That kind of boils down to somebody is an asshole.

Hello, my name is H.G. Tudor.

I'm a diagnosed narcissistic psychopath.

I operate through a pseudonym

which is H.G. Tudor, but I do so to avoid complication

with my private and professional life,

which enables me to function in an unfettered fashion so that

I can tell people all about the world view of me and my kind,

and explain all of the behaviors

so people are better able to understand it.

Why give away the secrets of my kind to the world?

Quite simply, it enables me to control people.

It draws fuel to me, and it's part of that legacy.

It's not going to cause a problem for me. Many people say,

H.G. why are you giving all this information away

isn't going to make it harder for you to get victims.

Answer. No. I am very skilled at what I do.

I was subject to physical, emotional, and sexual abuse as a child.

The chief antagonists were my mother,

my uncle, and my auntie.

But I soon learned that by mimicking

much of the things that they did,

I could inflict that on other people.

A lot of narcissistic people's backstories are painful.

They're traumatic, they're neglectful. They're abusive. They're lonely.

They were not well-parented. And so for the narcissistic person,

their entire life

is a singular mission

to ensure that they create a fortress around themselves

so that stuff can stay forever buried.

And what better way to do that than money?

Power? Being attractive?

Being famous?

Things that make you seem like a superhero to the world.

Narcissism really is

a maladaptive pattern

of self-loathing.

And, starting at age four and for the next 12 years,

I had been physically abused in

life-threatening ways on a daily basis, using instruments and implements,

and ended in blood all the time.

Enduring this, there was psychological and verbal abuse.

How could I defend against a murderous mother?

I packed a small backpack,

and I ran away from home,

and I knocked on doors and I said, would you like to adopt me?

But no one would.

While many narcissistic people

do have a history of childhood abuse,

trauma, or neglect, that's not an excuse

because a far greater proportion of people

who experienced those adverse conditions in childhood do

not go on to engage in narcissistic behavior

and harmful behavior towards other people.

My name is Richard Grannon.

I am a psychologist, and I help people

protect themselves against psychological predators.

At the moment, I work out of the city of Liverpool

and all around Europe.

I was raised in an environment which I would charitably

say was not an easy environment

for a child to feel safe in.

It was emotional, psychological, physical and sexual abuse.

My father is, he's an abusive man.

I mean, he's a he's a sick man, criminal psychopath.

And he went to prison for abusing his children.

Around the age of 21, I was going to join the Army as an officer,

and before the final test, which was the RCP,

I was out in a club.

It was a gay club. I went to, with my mates and their girlfriends,

and a guy headbutted me and hit me in the side of my eye with a glass for being gay.

Which I am not.

But he went in there specifically to do that.

I couldn't conceptualize that somebody in cold blood

would think to go out and to harm someone in that way.

I knew in theory that it existed,

but I was shocked to be confronted with it so directly.

As a result of that experience,

I became very interested in trying to answer the question,

what the fuck is wrong with people?

I've never been applauded on the way in before, Sam.

They were not applauding you. They are applauding me.

Ladies and gentlemen,

we have the pleasure of having Mr. Sam Vaknin back with us again today.

Thank you for having me, Richard. My, my pleasure and your honor.

I love working with Sam and doing the talks with Sam.

His insights are original, and it's crystal clear.

And it gets to the heart of the matter.

We're going to be going through

Doctor Professor Sam Vaknin's more recent ideas.

It will be game-changing.

I do my best to avoid people,

because I have pity on them.

But Richard is in touch with them,

so it's kind of my liaison to the outside world.

We are a great team together.

I'll describe how, how I hone in on a woman,

a specific woman.

Why do I choose one,

or nine?

One?

Well, she bleeds.

I'm a shark.

I'm a predator.

Yes. I have a map of you.

Of you specifically.

Right now.

I have a map of all of you.

So I know who

is bleeding,

who is broken,

who is damaged,

who is vulnerable,

who is open to attack,

who is open to intrusion,

who is open to takeover,

who is open to mind snatching,

who is open to merging and fuzing with me,

who is open to share my fantasy

in the sense that she's willing,

willing, craving

to suspend reality,

to suspend reality and go with me

into the Twilight Zone,

into the Netherlands of

my mind,

because my mind is very dark

and to some extent dangerous place.

And it takes a certain type.

And so,

when I scan for vulnerabilities,

I divide the vulnerabilities into two groups.

There are those who are vulnerable,

but seek healing,

vulnerable,

broken, damaged,

traumatized, hurt.

But they want to heal,

and

this is a very crucial insight.

There are those of you

who are hurting,

in pain,

bleeding,

and you want war.

You want more of the same.

You want me to destroy you.

Because you hate yourself,

because you're self-destructive,

because you're self-trashing,

because you're self-punitive.

I am your instrument of destruction.

It's like suicide by Vaknin.

So narcissism is a funny thing.

A lot of people see it as black or white.

Either are, or you aren't. And it's not that simple.

It really sits on a spectrum or a continuum.

At the lowest ends,

we really have someone that may be

really sort of interpersonally needy.

They're very superficial.

These are sort of social media narcissists.

These folks don't tend to be dangerous.

They tend to be annoying.

Most of us who are getting

flummoxed by these narcissistic relationships

are dealing with the mid-range narcissists.

It's actually a real problem.

Their lack of empathy, their entitlement, their

arrogance, their need to dominate,

it can make for very problematic marriages,

really problematic workplaces,

very toxic friendships.

Just enough good days to keep people in.

Just enough bad days to get other people sick.

Now, at the far end of the spectrum, the high, more severe end of it,

now we're looking at what we call malignant narcissism.

We're getting into a space here where it can be downright dangerous.

This is where we see a lot more manipulation.

They're more exploitative.

They're more menacing.

Malignant narcissism kisses psychopathy.

They're right next to each other.

The difference, though, is that

people who are psychopathic,

there's no sense of remorse.

So the malignant narcissist is still putting on a mask.

The psychopath doesn't need a mask.

Narcissists target people.

The way viruses target people.

I infect you. I cause your cells to replicate me.

I take over your mind.

And so that moment on your mind.

My goals or your goals,

my emotions or your emotions.

We merged and fuzed. We become one organism.

I can become anyone.

And I do become anyone.

I'm a chameleon. I'm Zelig.

And because I have this capacity to become anyone

at any time

tailored to your

menu, I'm irresistible to you.

I am you.

My name is Evan Rachel Wood,

and I am an artist

and an activist and a survivor.

I grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina,

in a very artistic community.

I grew up in the theater community there,

as can happen in artistic communities.

I was also around a lot of narcissism

and manipulation as a child.

I think I internalized a lot of that

to become a people pleaser

as a way of protection.

Looking back,

I can absolutely see

how I was never really seen very deeply as a child.

Marilyn Manson.

Also known as Brian Warner, is

one of the

most successful and well-known figures in the history of rock.

A man who needs no introduction,

a platinum selling musician.

Grammy nominated artist, top rock icon.

On the night that we met,

I was 18,

and Brian Warner was 37.

He really started in right away with the like,

nobody really sees you, do they?

Like he saw that?

He saw that.

I felt that way.

And I felt lonely and unseen.

He really started to exploit that

right away, immediately saying things like, I

love you and we're soulmates. And this

is special. This is different.

We're supposed to be together.

I don't care what happens. I don't care what people think.

And he said

you should move in with me, like,

right away.

Before the physical abuse began,

I was already trapped.

He was already controlling when I slept.

And what I wore and when I ate.

He would have his assistants follow me around,

and send him photos of what I was doing, so he knew

where I was.

And then that sort of escalated into the sleep deprivation. And then

if I tried to sleep,

he would make me do drugs to stay awake.

And that's where things got really, really, really dark.

He made me kneel

on a prayer kneeler

in the prayer position

and tied me up

and beat me over and over with a whip and electrocuted my body.

He put me in front of a TV screen.

Right? Well, this is happening.

And on the TV screen in front of me while I kneel down

are violent images.

It's a girl slitting her wrist.

And I didn't understand why he had put me in front of the screen.

That was just projecting violence.

While the violence is being committed against me.

And then later on, when I was reading about cults,

I read that it's a brainwashing technique.

It's a tactic.

It, it makes it harder to remember

the assault.

He was always abusing the people around him in big ways

and in small ways.

And he would always say, you know, they're dumb enough to fall

for it. Then they deserve it.

To leave and to admit that the abuse was happening

was to admit that I was stupid,

and that was

how he lured me in in the first place,

was that I was really smart.

Sorry.

Just, I´ve literally just put that together.

So yeah, I think I just felt really stupid, you know?

I'm, like, really ashamed.

So I don't want to tell anybody.

So I didn't.

For a really long time.

Once upon a time, you take a picture of the view,

or you might ask somebody to take your camera

and take a picture of you and your other half.

What you didn't do was bombard everybody with 100 photos of you

looking like a duck with some stupid look upon your face.

Standing in front of every monument and view that you've ever visited.

That started from narcissists,

and it harnesses that narcissistic trait of vanity.

So the platforms that have been generated primarily through social media

cater precisely to our kind

by meaning that everybody else embraces them,

making it more acceptable for us, the actual narcissists, to

behave in a narcissistic fashion.

But it's not seen as such.

The younger generation now is really facing

a struggle

with the construction of the false self.

Children are being taught

that your value is based on

how many likes you have,

how many followers you have,

basically what you look

like. My team is on social media for winning the trophy.

Where are you going on vacation?

Look at me in my new dress.

They're getting more and more likes and more and more followers and Oh,

I guess that's a good thing, to be self-absorbed.

Because of the overabundance of narcissists on social media,

when you open up your social media site and look at it, you're going to say,

my God, the world is filled with narcissists.

We live in a narcissistic hellhole.

Look at these clowns. I can't believe it.

And as you just doom scroll, just watch the world burn.

My name is Lee Hammock. I am a self-aware narcissist.

I have been clinically diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder.

I feel my TikToks my YouTube self out here.

I just put up my backdrop right here and set my lights up and just go.

My YouTube is at 474,000.

My Instagram is at 536

right now. Where are we at?

We have 1.9 million people on my TikTok page, which is kind of crazy.

I'm just like, what!?

You absolutely, 100%, want to watch out

if you hurt a narcissistic person,

because vengeance is, like, sweet

to most narcissistic and toxic people as well.

know people are going to say, you know, like, how long does the vengeance last?

There's absolutely no time limit

on how long a narcissistic will seek vengeance.

Hope this helps.

If I can imagine what made me a narcissist, I would just say this:

emotional neglect and, you know,

pretty much abandonment issues and things like that.

My dad wasn't, you know, the dad you need.

You know, we'd see him around town and stuff like that.

He was just, you know, out there making babies

and having other kids he wasn't taking care of, you know,

I always wonder why,

no matter what I did, I wasn't good enough

to get, you know, approval from this person.

I actually have a twin brother.

Same household, same everything. But he's not like me.

I kind of shut down emotionally,

but he's, you know, this super emotional guy.

He likes working with kids. He's happy in what he does.

I'm kind of jealous of his happiness. Like, why are you happy?

Good afternoon everybody. Happy Friday.

I decided to become a teacher because I wanted to make an impact.

Remember, we talked about that breathing in class. You are controlling your emotions.

You guys are having too much fun, and you forgot, right? Yeah! Yeah.

It happens, it happens.

I love making connections with them.

This is my happy place.

Not having my father around.

At first I was like, well, why doesn't my dad, like, want to be around us?

But as I got older, I accepted it. And became better for it.

He didn't feel that love from my dad, and I think

that that still kind of hangs over his head today.

We've always been labeled as like the nice one and he's the mean one.

I'm a super optimistic person. I'm always in a good mood.

I always look at stuff in like a positive fashion.

Yeah, but.

I feel like a deep connection with wherever I'm at.

Like now I feel connected to the lake out here.

I feel like it's calling out to me. It's going, take a dive.

But, you know, I kind of try to get connected to

wherever I'm at and just enjoy it.

See, for me, this is like... I don't feel that. I don't feel that I have time to connect.

I see the lake and I'm just like, I need a boat out here, you

know, like, why don't why don't I have a boat

like, I don't feel like stillness exists for me.

I was surprised to learn over the course of 25 years that

the personality characteristics I learned to treat in

jails and prisons

are actually becoming

more common in corporate positions or high-level politicians.

That is very alarming to me

and speaks to the level of health in our society,

because healthy societies would not be attracted to these individuals.

And in fact, 25 years ago, they were mostly

confined in jails and prisons

or at least not admitted to high-level leadership.

Narcissism predicts leadership emergence.

Narcissists want to lead because leadership gives you power, status,

attention and access to everything. So it's great.

And they're confident they can do it

because they have the ego to think,

yeah, I can run this thing better than anybody else.

And they act.

They just go for it.

They, interestingly, are very socially perceptive,

which can make them extraordinary communicators.

A lot of dictators and people like Hitler, Mussolini,

they knew how to control a crowd,

people like Napoleon. We look at Genghis Khan.

Sadly, our history books are populated far more with the story

of narcissistic people than with the good, kind, compassionate ones.

Because narcissistic people

always have and probably always will make history.

In order to get to the top, you have to be made of our stuff.

Politics, of course, is the greatest example of that.

It's such a viper's nest, infested with kind to begin with,

because that's where huge amounts of power and access to residual benefits,

such as networks, money's life,

that it really draws my kind in.

People look around and say,

my God, we're ruled by narcissists, psychopaths.

How can it be?

Well, we elected all of them.

What they do is they find the most disenfranchised in their midst,

and they feed their powerlessness by telling them,

actually, you're powerful, and I love you.

A lot of people see the narcissist's cruelty

as just tremendous conviction.

And that message takes the disenfranchised person

and infuses in them a completely unseeing faith

in this narcissistic and abusive leader.

If you live in a country governed by a narcissist, your life is at risk.

And if narcissists take over

in every possible way, the species is at risk.

This is not restricted to any political party,

to any side of the aisle.

This is endemic in leadership.

Tell me what you've gone through with this man?

For seven years, I've been in connection

with an extremely dangerous person

who represented himself to me as a therapist.

What state would you say you were in when you first had contact, and what

was his prediction of what you needed?

I was in a very bad state.

I was in a major life crisis and I was looking for help.

And this first session ended with his verdict.

You're extremely ill. You're sick.

You need help.

If you want to heal,

here I am.

I will be your healer, your fixer.

Lean your shoulder on me. I will help you.

My therapy sessions were happening very often.

It started twice a week, then three times a week,

then four times a week.

Looking back now, at the so-called therapeutic process,

I realize that it had never been therapy,

but a bunch of brainwashing mind-control techniques.

He acted under false premises because he's not a therapist

at all. He doesn't have any legitimate credentials.

He extorted a lot of financial means from me.

I ended up paying him all my savings.

I could never imagine what was going to follow.

Grandiose narcissism is almost what I call sort of

armchair textbook narcissism.

Look at me, unempathic, jerky narcissist.

That's grandiose narcissism.

Grandiose narcissists are offensive.

They know who they are.

They just want you to see it and check them out. And high-five.

This is where you see your leaders,

your politicians, your cult leaders, all these folks.

That's what people think.

But that misses a big part of the narcissism landscape. And that's

something called vulnerable narcissism.

Vulnerable narcissists often look at

first blush as being sort of socially unskilled.

They definitely don't have that

swagger and charisma of the grandiose narcissist.

You run into somebody vulnerable,

and they're always hunting for people looking down at me,

or they're threatening me, so they can get enraged easily.

So there's a really brooding anger to the vulnerable narcissist.

You talk to somebody, you think they're a little depressed, and all of a sudden you're like,

whoa, there's an ego in there.

I didn't know there's a huge ego in there.

Both are toxic, grandiose, and vulnerable.

Hi, my name is Sarah Crowson.

I am a self-aware narcissist.

Female narcissists

are more covert

because we're the damsel in distress.

All men want to save us.

You are so easy

to manipulate. It's ridiculous.

Oh, my tire needs changing.

Will you change my tire?

In my childhood, there was no unconditional love.

What the fuck is that?

One thing that reminds me of this is my sister and my favorite movie,

Mommie Dearest.

Yes, Mommie Dearest.

Because we would watch that, and we would get drunk

and just laugh and laugh because that was our mother.

She would just beat the shit out of me, and I didn't care.

I started oil painting

as a fuck you to my ex.

I wanted the rest of the world to give me kudos

and stuff in him, see how good I am,

and shit that's fucking stupid.

I need to be admired

for everything that I do,

and if it looks like shit,

I'm just going to throw it in the garbage.

Yeah, so I have to be the best, and then

I can post it for my likes.

Being in a relationship with somebody like me,

I am being triggered all the fucking time.

After being triggered,

you are a threat and you

have to be destroyed.

Hi, I'm Barry Sonnenfeld, or you don't want Hi.

I'm Barry Sonnenfeld.

Sorry.

Hi, I'm Barry Sonnenfeld, I'm a film director and producer and an author as well.

I was the cinematographer on Raising Arizona,

Misery, Big, when Harry Met Sally,

and I directed Addams Family, Get Shorty, Men in Black,

and RV with Robin Williams.

A child needs to be loved.

A child needs to be looked after.

When you have two narcissistic parents,

you're often put in danger.

I mean, I was really put in danger

because they cared more about themselves than me.

They both were very narcissistic, very controlling.

My mother's method was through depression.

I was constantly being told she would commit suicide.

The first time, I was maybe five

years old, my dad woke me up. I was sound asleep.

He said, go talk to your mother. She wants to die.

So I was forced to convince my mother not to commit suicide.

She kept saying, Barry, I can't live any longer.

I don't want to live any longer.

So I went in and I got my coin collection,

and I offered her my coins. If she wouldn't kill herself.

And she laughed and agreed not to kill herself.

Now there's dad.

Sonny was a salesman,

had multiple affairs.

Dad didn't keep it a secret from my mother

I guess.

And, I'll tell you the

difficult part of this story,

because they had this very unhappy marriage.

My parents let

her cousin Mike,

who was a child molester,

live with us in our apartment in Washington Heights.

And he molested myself.

Two different kids had lived in my apartment building,

various cousins,

of both sexes.

As long as they were prepubescent, Mike would have no problem,

fondling girls as much as boys.

It was so upsetting that I went to see my father.

So I said, dad,

why did you let this happen?

And dad said, you know, Barry, there are three reasons,

that was interesting, that he had three.

He said, first of all, child molestation didn't have the same stigma

back then that it has now.

Second of all, your mother was so upset

because of all the affairs I was having

that I thought having Mike around would bring her happiness.

And third of all, I never thought Mike was molesting you.

I only thought he was playing with your penis.

My name is Doug Buggle.

I am 52 years old.

I work in the power tool industry

as a territory manager,

and I have two children.

I have a daughter who's 26 years old, and I have a son who is 18.

There are so many things that I love about off-roading.

You just get out here in the middle of the desert or the mountains,

and really, your challenge is to get through these obstacles unscathed.

I met Tammy in 2004.

She was very pretty. She was very funny.

She was very kind to me.

But

that was the fake persona that she invented.

I knew nothing of narcissism or

narcissistic abuse for 12 years that we were married.

None of it was real.

The entire marriage was a sham.

Love bombing is actually a hook.

It's a dangerous hook.

She doted on me. She called me her Superman.

She actually bought me Superman logo floor mats for my Jeep.

I could do no wrong.

He started emailing and

texting and painting me.

I'm not going to do the normal thing

of it's going to take time to build trust and intimacy.

The more you get to know me, because I don't want you to get to know me.

I just need you to

fall hard,

very quickly.

You've been drawn into something really intense.

We never felt understood like this before.

You feel this person is all in.

It feels magical. When people tell me "magical connection,"

I'm usually like, "Run away."

It's one of the first steps

before the real insidious abuse can

happen, because they need you very much in love

and then very much alone.

Suddenly, your friends won't be good enough for you.

We might be talking about not being allowed to visit your family,

your parents.

In 12 years, that we were married,

my parents came over for Thanksgiving one time.

They'll find fault,

and they won't act happy when they're around them.

She would complain about them.

She would nitpick at everything they did.

Little subtle, sly comments here and there.

They'll make them feel very uncomfortable.

They're trying to get rid of them.

My dad said, "You know what, Doug?"

He said, "We never felt welcome in your home."

It's all going to get framed as the people that

have concern for you are actually trying to hurt you.

Like up is down, down is up.

They scare you into thinking that the only safe place is with them.

Once they're isolated, anything can be done to them.

All of a sudden they'll start to devalue you.

They'll start the little put-downs.

It's such a change from what you've just come from, where

you could do nothing wrong.

She would nitpick every single thing

if a cup was out of place, if a piece of clothing was out of place,

if the dishes were loaded not to her liking.

I mean, just simple little things, but they add up.

And so what I found myself doing was trying to get ahead of her.

I know she's coming home.

Make sure everything's exactly the way she wants it.

You know, my son told me,

dad, he goes, I didn't like who you were when you were around her.

We would be playing video games or watching a movie.

And as soon as she pulled into the driveway

and opened that door, I would jump off the couch.

I would turn the TV down,

I would make sure I was attending to her,

and my son would just go off and disappear and go into his room.

Over time, you become dependent on this person

and you can't function without them.

And that's their goal.

Narcissists are notorious for gaslighting.

You can take a victim from

being totally in command of their lives,

to a total and utter mess.

In that movie,

you will see the psychological abuse

that gaslighting is.

Picture it's gone again.

Where have you hidden it this time?

00:39:10:20 - 00:39:14:02 To take it? Why should I take it? It's no use to me.

Bella, where's the picture?

He's systematically driving her mad.

He's driving you mad, in order to discredit anything that you say

as the ravings of a lunatic.

I found out that a lot of the stuff

that I was constantly being yelled at

or being accused of losing, he was hiding.

That's like the very definition of gaslighting.

They're getting a kick out of literally driving you insane,

making you feel crazy,

and making you question your own sanity.

What the narcissist subtly does again and again over time is

they weaken your confidence in your ability to assess reality.

They need that. They need you to be unsure...

They need you to be uncertain.

So many victims

cannot work out what the hell is happening in their relationship,

and they think that they're going mad.

Physical, emotional and sexual abuse

escalated and slowly started trickling in.

But I got to say, it's the psychological abuse that is the worst.

That's the stuff that to this day is so hard to undo.

It's probably the worst form of abuse that there is.

It actually goes to a soul level.

It's full of drama, and theater,

and silent treatment, and false accusations,

and suddenly you're looking at this person who

you don't even recognize.

The mask is off.

The narcissistic person is no longer "trying".

She discarded me in a way, as to where, she threw me away

like I am human trash.

I was not a person to damage.

I was a function. I was a means to an end.

Your supply is no good anymore, and they're getting rid of you

to make space for more supply.

My personal relationship with Sam is warm,

as you've seen. Like we joke around a lot.

I don't have a problem with that,

as long as it occurs within certain boundaries and limitations.

You know, he's a narcissist.

I constantly feel that I'm superior to other people.

First of all, because objectively, I am superior to other people.

I have a very high IQ.

There's no question in the relationship of who has the superior intellect

or who has the superior knowledge. I'm not competing with Sam.

My IQ was 190.

In the whole world, there are eight people with 190,

not eight thousand. Eight.

You're the person who knows about this subject.

You're the expert in the field.

You know more than me.

He's a civilized, decent, honorable guy.

He has his own ethics.

But yes, he has personality disorder.

Undoubtedly he's not, he's not mentally well,

by his own admission.

I really thought I was going to go to my grave with everything that happened.

It wasn't until Westworld came along and I got to be Dolores.

That helped me through my own trauma and my own waking up.

Westworld is a theme park that is designed by humans

to be a land of make believe.

Dolores is character, and all of the robots

that exist within this park don't know that they're robots.

You're not real.

People can choose to be nice to her,

or they can choose to abuse her

and do just unspeakable, horrific things to her.

The themes of that first season just kept kind of blowing my mind.

Like even the fact that my perpetrator was the Man in Black.

It was so hard not to see Brian.

Every time I had to do a scene with him.

Like, I remember doing that final scene

and I was given just the most beautiful monologue to say.

It was like everything I had always wanted to say

to anybody that had ever hurt me. And especially Brian.

One day...

You will perish.

Your dreams forgotten, your horrors faced.

And by the end of that first season, I was awake

just like Dolores.

I came across this podcast, and there was a woman host, and she

had a psychologist on.

So I started listening. In about ten minutes in,

the word narcissism came up.

And all I knew about narcissism was is somebody who is into themselves. Right?

And then she started to give examples, and I was like, oh, wait a minute,

this sounds eerily familiar.

And I'm listening to this. And suddenly it's starting to make sense.

And then I go home and I start doing all this research.

And then, I was watching a video of this male psychologist, and it was

a covert female narcissist wife.

It's like I was sitting here in the room with him

and he was talking about my marriage,

and I realized she's a covert narcissist.

Oh my gosh. And when that, when that clicked for me,

it was like, wow. I had a why.

Once I built up the courage to finally leave Tammy,

I walked in the door,

and I see my son there, and I just started crying

and I said, it's over. It's like

this nightmare is over.

And, Jared

jumped out of his chair, and he gave me the biggest hug

and he said, thank God that wretched woman is out of our lives forever.

That was his exact words to me.

After a person has been through narcissistic abuse,

it can really crush

their conceptions of what is love,

what is family, and above all else, what is trust.

I never really thought

being molested by cousin Mike the

child molester had an effect on me.

I was going to get over it, get over it.

But I think I haven't,

and that makes me really angry at my parents.

Because they knew when they could have stopped it.

They really, really knew.

And they were so selfish

that they sacrificed me for their own needs.

That's not right to do to a child.

I have a limited range of emotions,

so I don't experience joy or happiness or sadness.

I experience power, fury, antipathy,

hatred, jealousy, and remaining negative emotions.

I have no emotional empathy.

I don't experience love.

Many people say, "Gee, doesn't it bother you that you can't be happy?"

No, not interested in it.

I'm hugely effective the way that I am,

and having that limited range of emotions works perfectly well for me.

In order for me to fit in,

I create a passable impression of happiness. Even though I don't experience it,

I know how to frame my face.

I don't go to tears, I don't cry, it's weak.

But certain narcissists do. Even though one feels nothing.

Empathy is the experience of understanding and

to some degree, feeling another human being's emotional state.

Even if you are not having a simultaneous experience to them.

It's how we create loving,

connected, sustained human relationships which actually

are the fabric of existence.

It's how we survived as a species.

There's no one place in the brain

where empathy resides,

but we see that a particular network in the brain

activates when people are feeling empathetic.

And we know this from neuroimaging studies,

where we can show people images

that would inspire empathy,

like a puppy being hurt or a child being hurt,

and it activates certain parts of the brain.

But we do tend to see that people that get these diagnoses

of, say, narcissistic personality disorder

can have decreased activation in these key centers involved in empathy.

The assumption is that they're not really feeling empathy

the way others do.

For the narcissistic person,

they know that you're supposed to care about other people's feelings,

but they actually have contempt for other people's feelings.

Oh, this empathy thing is what all these folks want.

I'm going to try that to get what I need.

Everybody stops. Oh, they're incapable of empathy.

Yeah. That's the tip of the iceberg.

They're not capable of humaning in any meaningful sense.

I look like a human being.

I talk like a human being.

I make some of you smile sometimes,

so I can reach into you.

And I can push the right buttons.

You'll want me too. I'll even imitate empathy.

I'll even cry if you want.

But I am not you,

and I am not like you in

any possible meaningful sense.

None.

It is true that in the postmodern world,

narcissists and psychopaths are better adopted than

people with emotions and what we call healthy people.

They are ruthless,

they're callous, they are goal oriented.

They know how to manipulate people, and they do.

So all these are advantages in the modern environment.

A true narcissist is absolutely invincible in many ways.

It gets what he wants and he plays everyone all the time.

And he does it highly efficiently.

Narcissism is about becoming the demon.

I need to feel God-like.

There's about 6 billion of us who shouldn't be here.

I don't know if it ever goes into the movie,

but I call them eat-to-shit machines.

They procreate, they consume resources, they pollute, they contribute nothing.

They directly compete with far more superior life forms like me.

These people should not be here.

I'm all for eugenics,

but on a scale that would terrify most people.

The biggest question is, can narcissists change?

There are some folks who believe that there can be meaningful change.

I have to tell you from my seat as a clinician, I'm not as convinced.

So right now, let's just say that the jury is out.

But I put my good money on, No.

They really can't change.

I have lived the most amazing cinematic Hollywoodian life. I have

done everything known, but I've never been there.

I have observed my life as though it were a movie.

I never participated in it.

I never enjoyed it.

I never loved,

I've never been loved.

You are human. I am not.

We don't belong to the same species.

I'm a

howling, giant black hole

and there's nothing but that.

No one can help me with my emptiness.

No one's love, no one's attention.

It's never enough. It's a black hole.

It's a bottomless pit.

I envy every human being who smiles.

I envy people who cry.

I even envy depressed people.

I'm incapable of any of this.

My problem is that I don't exist.

Can you tell me how to exist?

Is there an algorithm as to how to exist?

Is there a user manual?

Can someone teach me how to exist?

Of course not.

There's no way around this fundamental problem.

How does it make me superior?

I'm sorry.

So, I'm very angry.

I'm very angry at not ever having existed.

Because I think I had many gifts.

They were taken away from me.

When I was essentially helpless as a child.

You know?

I couldn't defend myself.

That's how superior I feel.

I hope, I'd answered the question.

He abused my trust.

He became kind of my second father,

as he described himself.

I received an email called "Adoption Papers"

where he suggested to adopt me.

Simultaneously, I was receiving very confusing signals from him

of a very intimate, sexual nature.

He would be pressuring me and telling me that, "Deep inside you, you're a slut and a whore."

"Let me welcome and embrace your sexuality."

And because I don't want to have sex with him,

I don't want to celebrate life.

So that's why sex with him is needed for me to get healed.

He blackmailed and manipulated me.

And ultimately, he tried to totally

mentally, physically, emotionally and psychologically destroy me.

Even after that,

I didn't find strength to go forward and to speak up.

But later, other women reached out to me.

And every story is a horror movie.

It's not thriller, it's pure horror.

I was like, damn it, I can't be silent anymore.

The therapist who abused me is Sam Vaknin.

I need to talk to you

IT'S URGENT!!!

I've been contacted by a group of women.

There's five of them.

Turns out that since 2015,

when I started using Sam to do seminars

with, and to help platform him,

he's been using his persona as a therapist,

and as a psychology professor

to bait, target, and single out individual women

for financial and sexual exploitation.

When I say sexual exploitation,

we're talking about some of the most depraved, degrading

sexual practices I've ever heard of.

And when I asked these five women,

how many people they think it is in total

in the seven years since I've been working with him,

they're estimating between 25 and 30 other victims.

He's not a professor.

He's not a doctor.

He doesn't have a degree in psychology.

He's a complete, total charlatan.

He's an utter piece of shit.

People are getting hurt here.

He's broken them. He's really, really, really broken them,

in a way that has left shrapnel

and shards in the emotional and psychological flesh

that will take years to remove.

Evil.

Evil man.

So he made sure to make the discard phase

as cruel as possible.

He took off his mask very abruptly,

and you saw the monster.

And then I told him stop it, I can't anymore. Just go away.

He said,

be careful what you wish for, because once I'm gone,

the only way out for you is out of your window.

It's okay. You're on the 20th floor.

You won't even feel anything.

His ultimate goal is to make you commit suicide.

It's like his mark,

his signature, "suicide via Vaknin".

I am your instrument of destruction.

It's like suicide by Vaknin.

How dangerous do you think this man is?

I think he's extremely dangerous because he's an expert in what he's doing.

Because this is the only thing he's doing all his life.

He's obsessed about destroying lives of people.

It's his fix.

It's so dark out there, Isla.

It's really, really, really dark.

Sam leveraged this idea of himself as being a benevolent healer

and a psychology professor, and as a therapist

to gain a position of authority and trust

over these women and with these women.

And then he fully abused that trust.

They don't want to be made public.

They don't want to go to the police, because they're deeply ashamed

and he's threatened them. He's told them,

"if you tell anybody what I've done to you,

I'm going to expose you to your family.

I'm going to expose you to employers.

I'm going to expose you to the academic institutions you work for.

I'm going to ruin your reputation.

He's trapped them.

It's a horrifying, torturous position that he's put these women in.

The man is a fucking animal, and he belongs in prison.

A smear campaign is a concerted attempt by

a narcissistic person to get back all the power.

They're going to take anyone down who pulls their mask off.

This is all part of the larger gambit of

the narcissistic person chronically positioning themselves as the victim,

when in fact they are the offender.

I was sitting in my attorney's office,

and my paralegal asked me, have you read Tammy's declaration? And I said, no.

And she said, well, she's now accused you of domestic violence and abuse.

And I just slumped over,

put my hands on my face.

And I just started to weep and cry

because I couldn't believe it.

I have never abused anyone or anything in my entire life.

She knew that just saying those things would just devastate me.

That was probably the worst moment of my life.

And I'm still not over that.

Even though I've been vindicated,

it was all denied in court.

There were no repercussions because it was all false.

She just did it to crush my soul.

Because that's what narcissists do.

I will not be collaborating any longer with Richard Grannon

in any way, shape or form, in any forum and in any setting.

To disintegrate someone and to destroy them takes time.

I want to clarify, I am not associated

directly or indirectly

with anything that Richard Grannon does.

Thankfully, he's out of my life for good.

I need to erase you.

I need you gone, and I'll do anything to accomplish this.

Ahhh, red wine, a men's best friend.

I just got rid of one,

not wine, a fake friend.

Fake former best friend.

I will be unstoppable and relentless.

It will go on long after the provocation.

You're my mortal enemy.

He cheats, he lies, he betrays.

Do not forgive and do not forget.

It's an enemy.

Treat him as such.

And so you've provoked me on Wednesday,

four years later, I will still engage in a smear campaign.

So I need to destroy you.

Whatever it takes.

Weak people pleasers

end badly. Badly.

Very, very badly.

In due time.

He has a clear and obvious intent to completely destroy my reputation.

He wants to put me out of business.

He's also shown me in the interim period that he's prepared to lie

and lie and lie and say anything to take revenge on me.

This is one of his flying monkeys right now.

Hello?

Yeah, this is Richard?

Speaking.

You can't keep doing what you're doing, ahhh Richard.

Your bribery and your death threat.

I've reported all... everything.

Sam is helping me out.

Seriously, you need to go see a healthcare professional.

You're mentally ill.

You can't keep doing that to people,

and you can't keep doing that to your followers

and your clients.

It's wrong.

Whatever...(inaudible)

Hello?

Yeah. She's under him. She's under him.

Sam has knowingly

weaponized mentally ill women to come and attack me.

As you can hear, this woman is not in her right mind.

One of the things that I have to accept about this situation is that

I thought I knew

who and what Sam Vaknin was,

and I clearly didn't have a fucking clue.

And I'm learning that the hard way.

No contact is something I call sort of the

ultimate strategy

for managing any kind of narcissistic or toxic relationship,

and basically involves exactly what it sounds like, no contact,

and I mean no contact.

Not on a holiday, not on a birthday, not an errant card here or there. None.

But since no contact is not

available to most people, there are other things that we can use

to manage the narcissistic relationships we do have in our lives.

Number one, if you only remember rule number one, you're good to go.

Never call them out.

A lot of people will saunter over to the narcissist and say, hey, guess what?

You're a narcissist.

And what happens is by the end of that conversation,

the narcissist has now told you no, you're the raging narcissist.

And in a majority of cases, they've made such a strong case.

You believe them, don't ever call them out.

Number two, don't blame yourself.

Narcissists are equal opportunity perpetrators.

They will do this to anyone.

The key is to not personalize what they're doing to you.

Number three, don't fall for the future faking.

They will make promises to you to the ends of the earth.

I'm going to therapy.

You're right.

I'm going to change.

Don't fall for that.

Number four, build a firewall.

Think of what a firewall is on your computer.

It controls information in and out.

Firewalling is also a technique for communicating

with a narcissistic person.

I don't want any of their toxic stuff coming in,

so I'm not going to overengage with them.

I'm not going to defend myself.

I'm not going to get into it with them.

And I'm going to be very careful

about not sharing the vulnerable stuff about myself,

because they'll use it to harm me,

so I'm not going to share it.

Number five, gray rocking.

Gray rocking is, in essence, turning yourself into gray rock, making yourself

so uninteresting,

so unemotional, and so unengaging

that the narcissist will either not engage with you or be disinterested.

Number six, boundaries.

Boundaries are everything in narcissistic relationships.

Because a narcissistic relationship is a 24/7 battle

of them trying to annex your boundaries

and you feeling more and more and more encroached upon.

There was a kind of

an induction. There's a kind of a seduction. There was a kind of a love bombing.

I was subjected to a lot of praise.

I was told that I was a brilliant public speaker,

that I had a brilliant mind, that I had

an intuitive understanding for psychoanalytic theory.

The obvious parallel to draw would be to say, okay, you have father issues.

It is partly that, but it's not that simple.

I also saw Sam as being like me,

as kind of, a lost child,

somebody that I had like a sympathetic resonance with because

of his childhood.

But the effect on me has been horrendous.

It's been really, really painful.

And it's kind of sent me into a personal crisis.

Maybe inside of my head, part of my defense mechanism is,

oh, here we go. Sam's doing the old Count Dracula routine.

I might be just thought it was

shtick or something amusing.

Knowing what I know now, that's just a frank admission of who he is.

I feel guilty because I've given him access to other people.

I've given him validity.

I've given him a platform and a name

that meant that vulnerable men and women

would go to him and ask him for therapy, and I've assisted in that.

Makes me feel physically sick.

Richard,

it's so nice to meet you.

I thank you so much for coming here.

I'm sorry. It's a bit chilly.

Should we walk? Yeah.

I really appreciate you coming to meet me in person.

And also for.

Well, not just yet, but connect me with the victims.

But I think, as you suggest, it's important we don't do that just yet.

Oh, they can be, they scare easily,

so we have to be very careful with them.

Yeah. And also because they're in different countries,

it's not as simple as you go to a local police station,

and say, "my therapist, who works in that office down the road, has done this".

It's because across countries,

it makes it far more complicated.

There's that. And then there's a tremendous amount of guilt and shame on their part.

They're very embarrassed by what's happened.

They really desperately don't want it to go public.

So I've been trying to explain to them that legally,

there just isn't that much I can do unless they go to the police

and they're willing to go forward with some sort of witness testimony.

If I am with an intimate partner, I have merged infused with her.

Then I start to separate from her.

I start to separate from her by becoming her inner critic.

I supplant her inner critic.

And so I criticize her, analyze her, castigate and chastise her.

So this is my way of pushing her away.

So I merge and fuze. Then I begin to cut her off.

I cut her off partly by becoming her inner critic.

Then I discard her.

It doesn't do the trick for me.

It's yeah, I feel separated, but definitely it's adulterated.

I need a much higher grade of heroin.

If she dies

or attempts suicide,

goes crazy

or is totally broken,

like totally, the separation is much stronger.

The drug is much more potent,

and I vicariously experience separation.

And this is as close as I can ever get to feeling that I exist.

So here I am,

as much the face of

justice as we can get right now,

because it's media. No one is going to do anything about this guy.

He's going to keep doing what he's doing unless we expose him.

And it's the power of the media that does that, the power of storytelling.

So, looking at me going there with a camera

is absolutely crucial.

So yeah, I'm feeling so sorry.

I tell people from the very off through my work,

I am a narcissistic psychopath.

I do what you would determine to be bad things.

I'm upfront and honest about it,

and yet they still believe that at the heart of it,

there's a good person somewhere trying to get out.

There really isn't.

I am what you would understand to be an evil person,

and I haven't got a shred of redemption about me.

I'm unapologetic for that. I'm being clear about it.

And yet you still believe to the contrary.

And you call us the deluded ones.

I don't think people like the idea that

evil is walking not only amongst them,

but might be sleeping next to them, and

may be their next-door neighbor.

We're encouraged to think in this childish way

that everybody's of good intent.

People don't do this kind of thing.

It's not a Disney movie.

Everything doesn't work out okay in the real world.

Catastrophes are real, tragedies are real.

The good guys don't always win.

People tend to believe in the best in people.

They tend to believe that they're not lying to them.

Especially if you're not lying to other people.

And therefore when they are duped or

they find out that they've been manipulated.

It's shocking.

There is beauty.

There is aesthetics in destroying another human being,

in penetrating,

in rearranging the furniture,

the mental furniture,

and taking over her mind

and doing with it as you please.

There is an infinite power

in eradicating another person.

Godlike power.

It's intoxicating. Of course.

So I have added him on social media,

and I've written to him, and seeing that I saw him on a show

with a big UK television presenter, interviewing him.

So I've arranged to meet with him on Monday.

That's in two days time.

The email.

It's so interesting to look at this,

because they start off quite formal.

However, once it seems that I'm actually going

to be there, that's when I'm noticing slight shifts in the language.

It's more informal.

Good afternoon Isla, please call me Sam.

Oh, because I've been calling him Professor,

so I believe that I am now being groomed.

I am the next target.

I don't want him to harm another woman.

He needs to be stopped.

Here we go. No going back now.

We're very tight to catch the flight to Croatia.

Okay,

found it.

I´m just praying this isn't a wasted journey.

We've made it.

Three flights.

Pretty tight connections, and all the equipment arrived.

Thank you.

Ok?

Yes.

Great.

I've no idea what's going to happen tomorrow,

but I do feel a huge sense of responsibility,

I'm a representative for all of the victims.

I have no doubt in my mind that he's a very bad man,

a very bad man.

So this is the location that we're going to be doing the interview tomorrow.

Anyway, I'm looking at the graffiti:

"I keep my hair tied.

I've got my wings to carry me."

He said, Yeah. E.T.A. seven minutes.

You guys stay here.

You go down, right?

Oh, God. It's freezing.

He's over there.

He's behind us. Yeah, he's over there.

That's him. He's behind us.

Hello!

We finally meet.

How are you? Isla.

All right, we're going in here.

In we go.

Here we go.

Oh, great space.

Yeah.

Hello.

This is Professor Vaknin.

I'm Sam.

Professor Vaknin. It's a pleasure to be with you, finally.

And my first question, which is a huge one, which is,

Do narcissists ever feel remorse

for what they've done to their victims?

Do they ever feel remorse?

Very few narcissists would perceive other people as victims.

The majority of narcissists would self-victimize.

Would assume a victim identity.

They would reframe the situation,

they create a new narrative

where this might have been, for example, inevitable

or provoked.

They would say:

"I abused her because she needs to wake up to reality.

This is tough love, you know?"

That's why I abuse her.

That's why I criticize her.

That's why I denigrate her.

Because that's the only way to wake her up,

and she must face reality.

Otherwise she would be taken advantage of. I'm protecting her.

They would claim victimhood in the situation

and may end up, for example, sexually assaulting someone.

Would they view it as sexual assault? or would they view it as...

Yes...

Or would they know the difference between right and wrong?

Yes, as far as, they would reframe it. They would say, my assault

is justified because she has been teasing me

or provoking me or misleading me or whatever.

That's a due punishment.

Or maybe she's been stupid enough to invite me to her hotel room.

She deserves it. She had it coming, etc.

So there's a lot of justification narratives.

How do narcissists react if...

they're exposed, called out, or found out?

The most likely reaction,

the narcissist would devalue the source of the exposure.

So if you were to expose the narcissist, criticize the narcissist,

disagree with the narcissist

or attack the narcissist,

So, now he's skinless.

There's no firewall.

He's in direct touch with reality.

He cannot deny anymore that,

having considered himself a genius, he's actually an idiot.

Having considered himself accomplished, he's actually a failure.

He cannot deny this anymore.

All the defenses crumble

and he's left face to face

with this internal monster.

The shame.

The shame is overwhelming.

You force him to face reality.

He resents it, his defenses emerge

and he attacks you.

You're an abuser. You're victimizing me.

It would devalue your morality,

your conduct or misconduct or attributed misconduct.

It would say you are a bad person.

That's why you're behaving this way.

So he would demonize you.

But we do need to be aware, because narcissists are dangerous.

I would strongly advise against having sympathy for narcissists,

under any pretext.

And so, I think we should judge other people by

the consequences of their actions,

and their ability to control and modulate their behavior

and their willingness to do so.

Narcissists are seriously dangerous.

It's really bad.

Really bad.

In a sense, it's a form of psychosis,

and many things are affected.

But one of the things that's not affected

is the ability to tell right from wrong.

The ability to choose.

The narcissist, for example, is fully, fully aware

of his or her actions

and the impacts that his actions would have on other people,

but he couldn't care less.

So, are you aware of the bad that you have done in your life?

My private life is out of bounds, as I thought we had an agreement on...

Oh yeah, yeah.

But, I'm talking about, you know, professionally.

Are you aware?

Are narcissists aware?

No, you as... in your profession.

So, you are talking about my private life.

I thought we had

an understanding not to include my private life.

Because I do. I do have to ask about your work.

My work has nothing to do...

As a professional and taking advantage

of victims through your role, through your profession.

What I have seen is hundreds and hundreds of documents

which have been shown to me, including photographic evidence

of harm that you have done to victims,

to therapy patients,

and you, in your professional role, taking advantage of them,

impacting them psychologically

and abusing them, sexually coercing them,

and knowingly infecting them with HPV...

I'm actually unaware of this...

Sleep deprivation,

contracts of behavior...

I have been shown this, and I need to ask you about that.

I'm sorry. This is outside the confines of what we have agreed.

Do you know that you've done wrong to these women?

I'm sorry, but we have agreed not to discuss my private life.

And of course, I have not done wrong to anyone, as far as I know.

So if we were to look through the documents and photographs

that you've had sexual relationships or sexual...

We've had an agreement not to discuss my private life.

It's not private. It's your job.

It's your profession.

You're a therapist, and you have vulnerable patients that come to you for help...

I'm not a therapist. I'm a Professor of Psychology.

You work in that role as a counselor for women.

If you persist with this line of questioning,

in contravention of what we've agreed...

It's not contravention because it's my...

It's contravention...

It's my duty as a professional

to look at how you conduct yourself

as a professional, and I need to address that with you.

But that's not the topic we'd agreed to discuss.

Do you feel bad for what you've done to these women?

I'm not going to discuss...

When they come to you and they're broken, and they need help.

You think you deserve to be in jail?

I'm available to continue to talk to you on narcissistic personality disorder.

As an expert on the topic.

Do you think you deserve...

If you wish, and if you don't, then.

To be brought to court for what you've done.

Is there anything that you would want to say to these women?

Look, Isla,

I suggest that we terminate...

just...

How do we close this?

Are you denying what I'm asking you, Sam?

As a professional, it's my job and my duty to do my due diligence.

I will show you my photos with the clients.

He didn't use any sexual coercion with them.

Lydia, you're very wrong in what you're saying right now.

Don't participate.

You're right of course,

but we had an agreement as to the topics of the interview.

But it's not personal.

It is personal.

It's professional.

But I can't have someone as a...

And this is unethical behavior on your part.

But I disagree.

You could have written to me.

Listen, this is what I would like to discuss.

And then I would have agreed or disagreed.

But to spring it as a truth, it's a kind of trap,

that is extremely unethical behavior.

And you should know that as a documentarist.

I disagree.

I think what I've seen is unethical

and damaging and criminal...

Did you see it yourself?

I have...

Can you send it to me?

I have been shown.

Things will unfold in a proper manner.

To spring it as a trap

that is extremely unethical behavior

and you should know that as a documentarist.

He's very, very angry,

very angry and

scared

and a little bit in shock.

But he wanted to frame it as you had committed a moral wrong.

Him abusing women, having sex with them, manipulating them,

trying to persuade them to kill themselves, sleep deprivation.

That's his personal life. That's not immoral.

You asking questions about that is what's immoral.

Which when people see this who've been the victims of narcissistic abuse.

Yeah...

They'll resonate with that...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what's immoral.

You're being immoral by asking me, not what I did.

The argument of, oh, this is personal.

No, it's not.

He is being paid to provide counseling therapy...

So he's offered therapy.

He specifically uses the word therapy.

He's used it multiple times. He can't weasel his way out of that.

He can try and claim it wasn't therapy.

He can try and claim it's nobody's business.

It absolutely is in the public interest.

Yeah, he is fucked.

I went out there, and throughout the interview,

he almost admits or explains every single thing that he's done.

He even talks about rape and sexual assault.

Is it your greatest hope that he ends up in jail?

What I really would like

is that not a single woman anymore

would end up being his victim.

So my biggest dream is that he doesn't have any access to

any woman anymore in his life.

But knowing how compulsive the fucker is,

knowing how deceptive he is,

the best way to keep him away from people would

of course be if he goes to jail.

You paid him to be a professional.

And he completely took advantage of you.

The reason I think it's so difficult for men to speak out against abuse

from a female narcissist is because

we have this stigma as men that

we are supposed to be strong and tough.

We're not supposed to show our emotions, we're not supposed to be weak.

And so I think for a lot of men, it's very difficult to admit that

they can be abused.

But I want everyone to know that abuse has no gender.

It's okay to come out.

It's okay to be emotional about it or be vulnerable about it.

You know, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

That grief process.

It's very real for people going through that revelation

and then that resurrection, if you will.

To me, there's nothing more beautiful than a survivor of narcissistic abuse.

It inserts this really gorgeous, rich poetry into a person.

For them to have gone through something like that and still be standing.

I believe survivors of narcissistic abuse who make it to the other side are

actually the most interesting people in the room.

It's weird. Any time I go back

to the places where things happened.

Like just looking over there and seeing the balcony where we first met.

And you know, I'm only a few houses away, but it's just a lifetime away.

I think for so long I didn't come forward because of everything that could happen, you know?

And then once you rip the band-aid off and all the things

you were worried about happening do happen, the retaliation, the blackmail,

all of it, the smear campaign. But you're still standing

and nothing's ever going to break you as much as you were broken before.

You know, I can't take back what happened to me.

But, you know, I might be able to help somebody else,

you know, maybe get there before somebody else does.

That'll be nice.

We are in a pandemic of pathological narcissism.

We should start educating the public

about their existence

and how much damage they can cause.

The perplexity, the suffering, and destruction they can reap

upon society is far greater than perhaps

all the other mental disorders combined.

You only have to look at the idols of our culture,

the most important people in our culture,

to see that only a highly narcissistic and psychopathic culture would support them.

It's not the narcissists or the psychopaths

that are the problem. It's the rest of us who follow them, who listen to them.

The world is presently overrun by this phenomenon,

and more and more toxic people

are running more and more of the show,

causing more and more harm to everybody else in the population.

If you want to look at all of the various ills of the world in terms of

war, greed, the trafficking of individuals,

the destruction of the environment,

then invariably behind it is one of our kind.

So long as the normals and the empaths

remain unaware

of narcissists moving in their midst,

then we will prevail.