Original subtitles

hey friends welcome to the Fireside what

you are about to watch and or listen to

is an inside Fireside technique talk if

you're not familiar with technique talks

they are one of our monthly events that

we host in the inside Fireside tattoo

club inside Fireside is a group of

tattooers who work together to hone our

skills and and become better artists and

the difference between a technique talk

and a traditional podcast that you've

probably seen me do before is that uh a

the technique talks tend to go a little

deeper into um working processes

materials things like that of the

artists that we're interviewing so we're

a podcast we might just talk about any

random topic uh we're a little more

dialed in on the technique talks trying

to tease out the things that make the

artists that we're interviewing uh tease

out the things that make them unique uh

second thing that is pretty different

about technique talks is that it's not

just me and the artist having a

conversation you'll notice our entire

inside Fireside Club is welcome to join

and jump been on the conversation ask

questions uh share ideas and things like

that so it's really a pretty unique

thing um I've uh I've really enjoyed it

it's probably my favorite thing that we

do in the inside Fireside tattoo club uh

but if you would like to be a part of

the club or if you'd like to jump in on

these conversations with us you're

welcome to join we would love to have

you we do a ton of fun stuff I won't go

into it here I will leave a link or a

card or something you'll be able to find

out more about the inside Fireside Club

there's no obligation to it you can join

one month and if it's not for you you

can ditch it the next month but uh

anyways I hope you enjoy this technique

talk and I'll see you at the

end minutes in think we should kick it

off or give folks few more minutes to

roll in we can start with a little

introduction yeah I think uh I think we

could start up now um plus you want to

wait till 5 after yeah don't matter

we'll start with just a little Zach you

want to give just a little bit of

background for folks who may not know

uh at least your uh your background I'm

sure I think most everyone should know

your work now we've been sharing it

apprciate Zach singer um I've been

tattooing 21 years it's crazy even

saying that it's time to F is

tattooing um I'm based out of Dallas

Texas and um I've really gone through so

many genres of tattooing you know always

trying to evolve my style and kind of

going with the times and seeing what you

know just where it's all going and

headed it's been a really fun adventure

and uh I'm looking forward to see where

it continues to head yeah do you

remember talking about your style like

style changing you I'm sure you won't

remember this but the first time we

podcasted together maybe I guess the

only time I don't know if we've done it

more than once or or not but the um we

had the same client and I I can't think

of her name but she had a piece she she

lives in Arkansas now and she has a

piece that you did on her that's like a

skeleton that's almost super fine line

black and gray uh she was really young

at that point with a bunch of small

flowers it might be based on a Grateful

Dead kind of thing or something actually

I remember that tattoo yeah yeah yeah

yeah that was back when I would do

whatever clients brought to me and said

this is what I want yeah I I I remember

I feel like that's necessary you you you

have to go through that phase and that's

where how you harness your skills and

your techniques and what you like and

what you don't like to do and what's

going to last and all those things yeah

yeah I remember when I started tattoo on

her I was like man who did this piece on

your arm and I didn't know you at the

time I don't think you were very well

known at that time at all uh if you if

you were just starting to I guess make a

name for yourself online because um I

remember like looking at it be like holy

[ __ ] it's so Ticky but everything is

like it was meticulous it was Tiny but

it was meticulous you there's so many

little things happening I was like

that's such a crazy tattoo and she's

like yeah it's based on whatever it was

based on and uh she was like I I wanted

to get more done but he's hard to get

booked with now he's um he's he's booked

out further

and uh that's how I first found you she

introduced me to you to your work at

that point and then when I saw what you

were doing I was like oh yeah he doesn't

tattoo anything like that at all like

and that's one of those you know things

that like as you start getting good at

tattooing and you're trying to develop

your style you kind of have to stick to

your guns and start doing what what is

fun for you you know I mean obviously

you got to pay the bills but if you

start getting busy it's like do what you

know makes your heart feel good as a

tattoo artist and what makes you feel

like you're evolving in the the right

direction you know so you're EXC exited

for each tattoo you're not just going to

work you know you're going to create

instead you know yeah yeah absolutely

that's uh um I think that's a struggle

one of the struggles with that I I've

always found is are those clients like

the ones who supported you before you

know early on and and you want to find

ways to you know to keep them happy and

then you it comes a time where you uh

you kind of outg grow them in a lot of

ways maybe it's you know for any number

of reasons tattoo some people that I

used to tattoo that type of imagery on

and they've really enjoyed seeing my

growth and like me developing my style

and so now they're just like they'll

come to me and be like do whatever you

want you know I love your work you know

so I it's very important to still build

those relationships do those tattoos

because you never know those might be

the people in the future that are just

some of your most trusting clients you

know they're like oh you did what I

wanted now I want you to do whatever you

want to do because they they see the

proof you know yeah for sure yeah well

let me um let me do a little screen

share and let's just talk about kind of

what

um uh how where your style is kind of

gone and and um I'm uh can everyone see

that

now yes yeah I can see it okay cool um

I'm just going to start I I'll just

start clicking just in case people

haven't seen your work for uh for some

reason there's a lot I think we could go

into I mean your you know the your from

design to execution to subject matter

and where you know where the subject

matter kind of ideas come from to

photography and presentation and

everything in between what um uh we were

talking before everybody jumped on that

you have put together a uh a seminar and

you've done it a handful of times like

how was your seminar outlined maybe we

could start like that just like what do

you what do you feel like um is

important to address when people are so

I always say this and it's the first

thing that comes to my mind because

whenever I get set up the quality of

your tattoo starts with the quality of

your setup you know I'll see some people

set up their ink caps and they're a mess

and they're uneven and there's ink

already Spilled Out their paper towels

are crooked their needles are stacked in

weird areas um I think it's super

important to start with a super super

clean and neat setup um and it just

allows you to just have a cleaner space

to work from you know I feel like it's

distracting um yeah yeah that's an

important point you don't hear a lot

about and so your advice on that is like

whatever feels clean and neat to that

person is like you don't believe that

you necessar rep in repetition like

having like you know a rhythm and how

you set things up you know

um that's that's one of the first things

and then you know God I'm trying to

think it's been a few months since I did

my last seminar um well do you and then

then I'll go through you know the types

of you know needles I use and why um the

type of machine I use the stroke I

use

um and what do you think about I mean do

you feel like people get super hung up

on like oh I want to do tattoos that

look like this so I should use Zach's

complet like exact setup do you find

when you give advice like that that

people think that that's gonna solve

their problems or I always give a

disclaimer because I've done tons of

collaboration tattoos um and where I try

to use their setup you know and their

work is just as much on my caliber of

work as well and you know I I don't want

to use their machine or their you know

gray wash setup one thing that comes to

mind is a rim and I a fantastic black

and gray artist uh we did a

collaboration tattoo together and when

we were getting set up his Apprentice

was setting us up and was like hey you

want me to set up a a a second gray wash

set and I was like oh no I was like I'll

use rimers it'll be fine I was like his

black and gray is super smooth you know

it looks like there's a even amount of

you know caps out there there should be

a nice gradient and when I was using it

it was just like messing with my head

not being able to have that consistency

that I was talking about um you know one

person might use a four drop and a and a

one drop and a cap and a you know a 20

drop and they're able to create this

whole Spectrum in there because they

have that repetition of tapping into the

rinse cup to dilute you know a drop

setup um it just yeah that repetition is

super

important yeah yeah definitely so so

when you're sharing your setup with

people during your seminar that

disclaimer is essentially like that I

use this because it's predictable and I

know what the results are going to be

for me right you're not going to you're

not going to set it out and nail it uh

based on well it makes if if you do have

to do a touch-up or anything I you know

you can confidently go into you know

like a soft cheek area or something and

know that your drop setup is going to

you know work sufficiently to go in

there it's not gonna go oh [ __ ] you know

it's too dark or anything like

that what is your as far as the

technical process like graywash being a

good example and you do this is

something I ask a lot of folks who um

who work like you um the combining black

and gray elements you know mostly black

and gray tattoos with color elements I

think a lot of times is really tricky

like something like this for example so

this is a little bit different too I've

recently gotten to doing more opaques

and so this is actually black mixed with

uh White and I I use the same drop setup

um that I do when I dilute with water

but I'm diluting with uh with uh white

instead and U this was actually a cover

up right here that you're showing oh

okay nice where's the cover up uh it's

under there oh well done appreciate it

so what what made you make the

transition to opaque Grays instead of

gray washes um really you know I get

inspired by you know the industry and

just seeing like different applications

and techniques and stuff you know and

again you know I'm already a black and

gray artist so my understanding of

creating those values and light tones

it's already there you know so I'm kind

of just taking that same concept concept

and you know mixing it with the opaques

and it's it's been a lot of fun the

application is totally different uh like

not at all the same but again to achieve

those values the the fundamentals are

much the same yeah those opes I mean

you're pretty much it's very deliberate

um and you have to be confident in your

your setup for sure yeah are you mixing

the two so like for example is this all

opaque Grays and blacks or is this more

is this washes and this opaque or do you

ever play with using the two together um

I have done that where I did like a

black like a traditional style black and

gray face and then I had some flowers

around it that I did in the opaques and

that was kind of cool but whenever you

do mix the two the opaques just Trump

the the regular black and gray and it

really makes the black and gray look

unfinished yeah and that's one the

things with with my style of work too it

took me forever to figure out how to mix

black and gray with color without making

the black and gray look unfinished and

that's one thing that's kind of was

difficult for me for a little while but

then I started that's one thing I teach

in my seminars too is is is how I go

about

that yeah that is a well so here's a

pretty good example of of how like this

face transitioning from these Blues to

the gray scale and I mean obviously the

most important thing is that they sit is

that the values make sense so if you

dropped it all a gray scale the blue

would would make sense with the with the

gray but like it you're still what I

what I've noticed and I'm no master of

this by any stretch but I do look at the

folks like you who are doing this a lot

and I try to make sense in my mind of

how it works there comes a time where

you just have to abruptly drop the color

out like you have to is that true like

like so for example like if you would to

try to if you grabbed some of those

oranges and dropped them in the

highlights in the nose do you think that

would be disruptive or do you feel like

it's important to like know where your

color drops out and and everything kind

of turns black and gray so like looking

at the photo like in the cheek where

you're where your cursor is at like it

looks like an abrupt stop but I was

actually mixing from my light blue tones

and then gradually dipping because it it

it it doesn't make a smooth transition

so I was dipping from my light blue into

like a two drop of opaque and creating a

nice transitional blend but I want it to

almost seem striped so that it has sort

of an abrupt stop I didn't want that to

be like a very smooth gradient it was

almost trying to be like it was

striped right okay yeah and and that's

one of the things is transitioning those

colors especially those pinks and blues

into each other it creates like over

there on that left side where that pink

glow is that's a really interesting

color combination that kind of with your

head um just creting those value or

those color tone changes yeah yeah

definitely and it's and like the like

pinks to Blues is one thing warm and

cool within pinks to oranges is a

different kind of problem where your

cursor at is that up there by the by the

feet that like blue into like terracotta

mixed with a purple it makes this

really unattractive in your needle color

but you're like that's that's what

happens in nature you know there's these

weird muted tones that are so necessary

to to create this type of

imagery yeah and it creates a tremendous

amount of separation between the colors

you know it kind of makes like that

weird browny bluish purple and it's like

that's a color you would never

deliberately like I'm mixing that in my

in the tattoo machine like you know and

so you're not just pouring that out

going oh that color is gonna happen it's

almost like this weird acceptance of

creating this this type of art to create

those types of

transitions I think that's a really

important point and and I think a really

great reason for um uh for using a

simple color palette kind of a limited

kind of color palette long enough to

figure out what the off tones are and if

you find you're mixing the off tones a

lot then you could probably go buy them

CU there's a trillion you know colors

out there but like you're saying like

there's no way you would even know to

buy this tone like you would never know

that that belonged there if it wasn't

you know this amalgamation of all these

other things all these other colors kind

of coming together in the right in the

and that's one of my favorite Parts

about tattooing is I mean I don't

suggest if you're new at tattooing to go

that way about it but I just trust in

the process and I just know like as I'm

doing it I'm going to do what's

necessary to achieve the proper tones

that are there

and I really enjoy like mixing colors

and I'm like oh [ __ ] this color is super

unique and it's just like that that it's

so pleasing as an artist to to be

creating in that

way yeah yeah and then I think the way

that you're using so like even if that

you you've set yourself up for Success

because even if that blend which it

looks in this photo like it like it

worked seamlessly but even if it didn't

it's secondary to this like strong

contrasted kind of silhouette the high

tones in the you know in the center of

the chest you know all the other things

that are happening um how do you balance

like um focal points when you have you

know when you have what well I use body

structure you know I mean you know the

Fibonacci sequence you know breaking

down the human body into you know

sections you know like the body takes up

that shoulder cap muscle area and then

you know we've got the lady face right

there in the middle and then I utilize

the tricep muscle to Accent her cheek

you know and then also those kind of

black uh you know tribal marks on her

cheek you know that fits really well

onto the tricep and then on the bicep if

you look over in that bright pink area

on that front side just the way that I

created those black um arches and that

glow it fits the muscle structure you

know like it acts it really adds to the

shape of the bicep and it's like you can

create these amazing designs but then

when you put it on the human body all of

a sudden the design is clashing with the

natural flow of the muscle structure you

know and then like down towards WS the

bottom where the crystal is you know

that's a very you know prominent spot

you know and I wanted that to fit nicely

on top of that muscle structure um you

know and and to design a tattoo whether

he's wearing a t-shirt or a long sleeve

is going to be appealing you know

sometimes people just design and all of

a sudden they put their pants on or some

shorts or a T-shirt and it's like what

the [ __ ] is going on like a weird part

of the tattoos hanging out you can't

tell what it is um I think that's really

important I try to think about that as

I'm designing the piece

I yeah I think that's an important Point

too I think about that I remember years

ago um doing a guest spot and listening

in to an artist do a consultation and it

was a big kind of thigh rib piece on a

younger um really fit kind of woman and

the artist was like can you just um have

someone to photograph you wearing the

wearing like a bikini a sundress the

things that you like want this want to

show this tattoo off like the type of

clothing that you wear to show tattoos

and I thought well what a weird question

to ask I never considered that but then

he was thinking about that very thing

it's like I you know like sometimes like

musly dudes will wear a t-shirt that

drops off right at the top of the

deltoid other people have T-shirts that

drop off Midway through the bicep and

that's just kind of who they are and

what they wear and then you end up with

like these funny like things that stick

out that just a point of some

distraction where you're like what is

that thing right there like the of that

tattoo yeah yeah good yeah good I think

it's a an interesting uh interesting

point what do you think about so down

here on this on the lower arm where I

mean you're going to end up getting kind

of the most sun and it will be seen more

than anything and you don't have any

kind of like deliberate there's nothing

black down there really and there's no

bold Line work um what do you think this

isn't so this piece isn't done I'm

actually doing a whole sleeve on him so

there's GNA actually be some heavy

blacks that encapsulate that the dark um

I think I was using like dirty scarlet

and Undead red around the the what was I

using it was a solid ink color I think

it was called like uh El Dorado or

something like that um and again this

guy's from uh Canada and so he doesn't

see the Sun a lot so you have to design

for where the person lives like if a

client came to me from PTO Rico I'd be

like yeah yellow is probably not the

best color for an area that you're going

to get blasted with the sun yeah and I'm

a firm believer too I mean I've seen

tattoos that are 20 plus years old that

if you go in the right depth of skin and

the application's proper the tattoo will

hold up just fine you know and it's

about having really bold saturated areas

and like if you really look at that you

know I could have over detailed that

Crystal but I went really really simple

you know everything I was able to just

saturate really hard there's not a bunch

of separations and stuff like that um

and at the same time I didn't want it to

try to overpower the face like when you

look at this image the top part and the

bottom part they're almost you know just

2D if you will and then the face is 3D

so that's creating a contrast in itself

as

well yeah that's a I'm glad you brought

that up too that's a really great point

and that and you you framed a realistic

thing that has a has a deliberate like

light source that looks believable with

with two kind of flat graphic elements

and you're right if you can try to

visualize those crystals like fully

rendered with a light source and and and

catching every little fractal like every

turn of the of the crystal it could

easily turn into a distraction right and

there's very little white in there you

know I try not to overpower with white

like when you look at that tattoo it's

it's a lot more midtone and dark tones

than it is into like the lighter values

like even in the face you know most of

that's actually still pretty dark you

know there's there's just some very

strong white highlights to really help

push and pull the image um yeah yeah

I've noticed that I I I can remember um

I I don't I don't know where we were but

the last time that um that we were

tattooing at the same show I we did uh I

came over and I did like little rapid

fire questions and I remember coming and

asking you whatever the question was and

like paying attention you were you were

boothed with James and I remember

noticing like wow the whole tattoo for

the longest time looks way darker than I

thought it would right yeah super super

deep and you know it must have been it

may have been H Hell City like a dark

room anyways or something like that and

so it just looked really rich and deep

and dark and that comes with time of you

know tattooing I've been tattooing 21

years now and it's like I went through a

stage I think everybody to was like no

black no outlines like you know and then

we see how that stuff heals up so it's

like now you know just bold readable um

you know tattooing is super important

you know for longevity and I like to

create a tattoo that you can see from a

distance that you don't have to

necessarily get all up on it to see the

Artistry behind it

um yeah completely yeah completely and

this piece is still a working progress

right here but I I was happy with it so

I wanted to put that up man I I love it

I've looked at this piece a handful of

times when we um when I was uh telling

everyone that you were coming on this is

one of the pieces that I that I pulled

up I love the snake looks almost like an

x-ray uh a lot of the abstract kind of

like negative shapes are so inter

there's just so much there's so many

cool things happening in in this I tried

I tried to channel my inner Dolly with

like a modern twist tattoo style you

know because you know he has paintings

that he used you know uh snakes and

paintings that he used tigers and stuff

like that and so I wanted to kind of get

trippy with it without necessarily using

his art and kind of giving it a tattoo

artist um you know style to it right

yeah that definit yeah definitely work

it might be a good opportunity to talk a

little bit about that

your kind of

design processed I mean are you like and

we can use this piece as an example

because you have some pattern based

stuff you have some realism you know you

have uh some kind of abstract stuff a

little splash of color here and there

like what um right when

you you're well let's just let's just

use this piece as an example like where

did who is this client how did this

thing come about and what like how all

the way up to needles on skin like what

was the consultation through the design

process what did it look um you

know man it it's he's actually a really

cool client we were just kind of vibing

back and forth and you know he wanted to

do something Dolly inspired you know and

I was like oh I'm a fan of Dolly and we

had like that moment together um you

know and he was talking he showed me a

snake and he showed me a tiger and I was

like we could you know incorporate both

of those uh we ended up doing two

snakes um and it's just it's sometimes

it's hard for me to put into words how I

create what I create you know I feel

like not on some hippie [ __ ] that I kind

of Channel what needs to happen to

create the tattoo that the client is

wanting you know um and I I I use a

traditional you know mindset you know

with like black midtone and skin and so

I kind of break that down you may not

see that in this tattoo but if you look

at the amount

of you know portrait work compared to

flat design style and then just a little

pop of color you know I I I try to think

about that you know even having to where

like the the spine on the snake is just

100% skin you know and even in the

lighter tones the way I break down my

black and gray is I make sure that even

in the the light gray scale that there's

it's broken down into like a rule of

three as well

um yeah I don't know if I well so yeah

yeah no for sure and I I um I the uh

yeah like a the rule three being like

like a black skin color like a Japanese

kind of rule three I guess is what

you're talking about the Japanese is is

you know not to take credit for you know

doing black and gray and color but I

mean that they're The Originators of

that you know um and so I've just there

was a point when I was an apprentice I

was drawing bunch and bunch and bunch

and a bunch of japane Japanese work um

and it just kind of carried over I just

I really enjoy um the Finesse of doing

black and gray but I also enjoy doing

color and incorporating Line work like

you know those little circles in there I

was going in with like a nine round

Shader you know and I made all those

super clean lines in there and like

that's so satisfying to me as an artist

you know I get very bored just

duplicating a picture you know it's like

oh I just did a photo no no discredit to

people that do that it's it's amazing

but I just don't feel like I'm creating

anything so I like to incorporate this

like hyper realism black and gray stuff

you know and then kind of this neotrad

handdrawn snake that's woven through all

of it you know that's kind of

three-dimensional and all of a sudden

down towards where dolly is now it's now

it's like a window that you're looking

through the snake to it and then it goes

into like that flat you know pattern

down there you know and that's a lot

going on in just one snake you know yeah

yeah definitely so my assumption looking

at the design because I you know I I

recognize the dolly portrait and

obviously that like that looks like it

came from Tiger reference are you

starting with like blocking out shapes

like you were talking about the the

shape of the body and using that yeah so

I I basically Drew up the tiger you know

fighting there's actually two snakes I

don't know in this video if you can see

it there's one on the other side where

like the mouth of the tiger is uh one

snake is black and the other snake is

white um and I just you know started

drawing kind of like a neotrad style you

know just drawing at my own snake and

then I had the idea I was like man I

could fit a dolly portrait down there so

I went through different references and

seeing what would fit there you know was

made the portrait still really readable

you know and it's just like this organic

process like my the way my brain works

it kind of just sees these opportunities

and like how can I make this work or

what can I do to have fun creating this

piece yeah how how often are you

collaging photos to start blocking

something out and how often are you just

drawing from imagination to start it

depends on the client some people come

in and it's mostly you

know like handdrawn stuff it just

depends and I'm so lucky as a tattoo

artist my clients are just like yeah do

whatever I love your stuff you know

they'll give me like a few words and you

know I'll just kind of start creating

you know some of them

are just I don't know I feel like

they're all kind of unique in their own

way yeah yeah interesting and I go ahead

go ahead what you want to say uh I just

just keep repeating I just like having

fun tattooing and that's the most

important I think as an artist instead

of trying to do like like this wow

factor thing it's just like what are you

feeling you know like what what's going

to be fulfilling to create you know and

that's going to allow you to create the

most highest quality work instead of

forcing yourself to do something that

you're that you're not really vibing

with but you know it's what's cool or

whatnot you know yeah yeah um th this is

interesting it's a it's a collaboration

that we're showing now and I don't know

never met Danny Elliott but I've I've

seen a little bit of andreas' um design

process compare like he doesn't do a lot

of he does a lot of collage right I mean

he's not drawing a whole lot so when

you're building stuff out like this what

do you when you're working with

obviously other super high Lev people

what do you what can you think of

something you took from this collab

where you're like oh yeah that's a great

idea I'm going to start incorporating

that I always learn from a collaboration

tattoo and I I tend to try to pick

people that I you know I think it's very

important to pick people that you're

going to be able to work cohesively with

um I feel like just with my style of

tattooing I'm I'm able to really kind of

work in any direction whether it's color

or even like a neotraditional style um

and I kind of just I try to fill the

void of whatever is kind of missing in

the collaboration um and just

contribute my my creativity in there

um I I really like letting other people

you know make sure that they're getting

to do what they do at their highest

level and which creates a learning

experience for me as well you know it's

like oh I wouldn't have necessarily done

that this way you know and then all of a

sudden I'm working on an area that they

started and now I'm trying this new

application or I'm blending these three

colors together that I've never used

before would never pour out and all of a

sudden you know that's amplifying my

skill set at that point you know and I

feel the same for them you know I'll

pour out a black and gray set and all of

a sudden they like oh [ __ ] you know I

love this I never I've never tattooed

like this and so we're all working off

this Synergy of like really pumped to

work with each other and evolve each

other at the same time yeah yeah it's

beautiful who's did you guys bring in a

professional videographer for this or

did you set up cameras and do this on

your own uh no so my one of my really

good friends uh he he shoots a bunch of

my stuff I had him come to Austin with

us to get the final photos and Shout Out

him for staying up we the last session

we tattooed from I think oh man I think

we started at like 10: or 11: a.m. and

we tattooed till uh 6:30 a.m. the next

morning and then he was shooting oh the

final video like as the sun's coming up

oh wow holy crap that's incredible W

yeah and he you know everybody was from

out of town one of you know Danielle

he's from Denver Colorado so he bought a

plane ticket the

client I think drove up

from Houston or he was from out of town

as well you know and then I drove up

from Dallas we're in Austin so it's like

to to get three of us that are booked to

be able to get there on the same day and

make this happen it's just like it's

Grind Time yeah yeah I bet and that's I

mean that's another kind of interesting

um thing interesting point is like

deciding that you want to make this

project happen getting it all together

finding the client you I guess I assume

you've done this quite a few times now

with different collaborative kind of

Partners um talk about that and and then

three different tattooers I mean I mean

I've done um you know like a collab with

one other person but now we've we're in

a new era of tattooing you've been

tattooing 21 years so you know like we

didn't used to see tattoo teams like

tattoo pro teams that were like five

folks doing a back piece in a day like

what are what's your experience with

working with

multiple tattooers from a design and

execution kind of standpoint yeah I've

had such good times with my

collaboration artists that I've worked

with I haven't had really any negative

experience es or any issues um this

piece was super fun just for the fact

that literally three of us got to work

on it this at the same time almost the

entire time and we would just kind of

rotate around and you know like on this

piece which is awesome is you know we

all kind of worked on everything you

know um and which creates a really

cohesive piece instead of it looking

like oh oh you did that part and you did

that you know so that's what coll I me

when I first was introduced to

collaborations when I first started

seeing this and this would have been in

magazines and stuff I knew for sure who

did what you know it was like two

tattooers that I knew and I looked at

the piece and I'm like oh you know Russ

did that and guy did that I can tell who

did what there was no like it that can

have a cool look too you I mean and

obviously two talented artists they're

like I mean they can make it work you

know whether you're working with a

traditional artist and then a portrait

artist and the traditional artist

creates this badass frame and some

flowers and then the portrait artist

goes in and does this amazing portrait

like that looks awesome too you know but

yeah yeah

ways to go about it yeah but but what

about so like with I understand like the

mechanics behind that but so for example

with this there are a lot of subtle like

color combinations happening a lot of

like warm against cool different

lighting like even just your ink setup

like are you working off of a single ink

setup if so how in the hell are you like

working over the top of each other what

we had all had three different Mayo

stands setup and we poured all the same

colors that so it that we could achieve

you know there a point like hey what

which one were you dipping in here

whether it was like Crimson Mulberry or

whatever the tones were and we would you

know be like hey dip into that and then

hit that Inc cap and then we would do

that and be like oh [ __ ] cool yeah

that's the color and then we be blending

out you know so there was constant you

know communication between all of us and

kind of coaching if you will uh you know

you get to a spot it's like hey what are

you gonna do over here because again you

you have reference but also we're in

here finessing this thing you know doing

stuff kind of like ah taking out

something there oh hey I'm going to

actually change up you know this and

make this a little bit brighter or add a

glow here that wasn't there and things

like that and it's kind of like oh yeah

good idea cool yeah let's run with it

you know so yeah yeah yeah and that

that's really interesting with that um

yeah the kind of I mean forc

communication for lack of a better term

like you can't really zone out and do

your own thing when there are two other

people who have already had a couple of

hours in the area you're like I don't

even know with it like where did you

start with this that's yeah that's

really interesting this stuff has gotten

to be um

like popular uh the kind of it's so what

what what brought you have you done are

you doing a lot of this um no so this

client is like a friend of some friends

and she reached out and I just enjoyed

the challenge of it I was like because I

mean a lot of people would turn this

away and I was like you know what I'm

gonna do that you know I take pride in

my line work and my skill set and being

able to do something like this so and at

the same time if she if I don't do it

she's going to go to somebody else and I

know the fact that I can do a good job I

want to give her that service of me

being able to you know do something like

this for her and uh it was actually a

lot of fun um yeah yeah is it freehanded

or did you yeah I just drew it on with a

marker yeah and I really that's the only

way you probably take this off and lay

it on a straight on the floor it would

be not a straight line you

know I think it took longer to draw it

on than it did to tattoo it oh yeah I

bet and then you know and then with the

uh like the subtlety of like thickness

and thinness of marker lines you know

like you know stencil getting fat and

getting thin you really have to dial in

and focus on your do you do a lot of um

watching the little bit of tattoo that

you're showing here it's kind of like a

to B like pulling straight lines do you

do a lot of scumbling to build up line

weights or it's get it in the right

depth and pull it being super

consistent yeah yeah I feel like you can

always see I mean you can create some

clean lines like that but you're not

going to be able to get as clean of a

line as if you just put it in the skin

and set the right depth and get that

tension and that right vibration that

you feel and just being super fluid you

know especially something that's that

long um I think if you're doing

something that was a little bit smaller

yeah you could you could go in there and

finesse some lines but the the cleanest

lines are going to be some single pass

just [ __ ] put it in the right depth

right speed right tension and go are you

for that style of line work are you

using like style machines or are you

using I used yeah I used just my FK iron

uh okay and I used a like a nine round

Shader I really enjoy using uh round

shaders for my line work it causes way

less trauma and you get a much more

consistent line yeah I I've I've moved

to that too and I remember it's funny

you can go back 10 15 years and watch

like um like uh needle configuration uh

podcast that we did where I was like I

don't even understand the point of a

round Shader why would you shade with

anything around this came you know

coming from like an era where you lined

with a three a seven and then you did

everything with a seven mag like that's

all that we ever use why would you shade

with a yeah why would there be a purpose

for a round Shader I know there's a

video out there and now they and now

that's all I use it's funny

yeah yeah

uh uh anyone I'm know I'm dominating the

questions here anyone feel free to kind

of jump in if you have any specific

questions I'm keep kind of flipping

through and if you don't then I've you

know I I'll obviously keep

asking um I mean Jake you're really good

at it so oh come on now thanks I uh I

just have a lot of uh just have a lot of

questions um the

um that's really

interesting uh the uh the the subject

matter itself the kind of realism and

the um you know like realism with with

faces and then all of the neon kind of

like uh you know crazy Spacey stuff

where where did where did that

combination come from is it was it an

influence or was it just did it evolve

from it's just evolved man just through

the time of just tattooing and I I get I

don't use the term but get bored but I

feel like that's how you get burnt out

you know it's like try something

different

and yeah I mean and again we're all

influenced by different artists and way

people you know apply tattoos um but

then it's about you know still being

your authentic self and then taking you

know like oh [ __ ] that color combination

was cool you know not taking the tattoo

but um you know and and you know

creating your own art is is so important

and fulfilling especially to to keep

from getting burnt out you know yeah

yeah I think I I really have enjoyed ien

haven't poured through your work quite

like like I am right now um and I I I

guess I only see like the stuff that we

first started with but I love seeing um

stuff like this and that single line

thing because one of the one of the

things that we'll get a lot of questions

on is like basically how do I not do

these tattoos you know what I mean like

how do I get away from doing uh a tribal

kind of like a simplified thing on a

neck why how do I get to do the things

that I that I want to do and then I see

you doing things you know like obviously

this is a this is a a cool piece but it

probably may I don't know where the idea

came from but it probably wasn't what it

became and what you do so well is that

you turn like what could be a pretty

average tattoo into a really Stellar

tattoo thank you um this this piece this

was actually on Danny Elliott the guy

that I did the with on that that big

thigh piece and he literally was like I

want a snowflake he was like do your

thing with it you know um and then this

is what I came up with you know it's

kind of got you know the The Duality of

you know negative space and blackb kind

of like a yin-yang um you know it's got

some crystals um and some negative space

you know and I wanted to create

something that's going to last you know

and wasn't like jambl up with too much

detail and you know I wanted to utilize

as much space as possible and this is

what I came up with for him yeah yeah

incredibly unique and and and thoughtful

you know you can tell that you put you

know you didn't Google snowflake or like

you know most people would start with a

snowflake and be like all right that's

what it's going to be how going to set

it on the hand where it has the most

impact and then you just continue to

kind of evolve that Dan you got a

question um so Baler in the in the

comments says um how finished are your

sketches that you present to your client

and uh another question added on to that

is do you present and if you do when

when do you kind of present a sketch to

them that's a good question so I do a

draw day for all of my clients just

because I I I a lot of what I do is

handdrawn I do use some portrait you

know reference um and a lot of the stuff

I do is so out there that if I design my

pieces sometimes before a client sees it

they're like whoa this has an extra

eyeball and like a bunch of stuff you

know and to change one little thing it

really changes the entire design um and

and one thing it's just with the amount

of time I've been tattooing you know my

portfolio speaks for itself and so

whenever I do generate a tattoo

sometimes my sketches are pretty not

rough uh per se but um you know I can

pull up my Instagram and be like hey you

see how I have this like simple line

right here that's actually going to be

glowing and you know have these types of

elements to it so I'm able to to show

the end product you know by by work that

I've already done uh and I'm very lucky

for that because it would take me hours

and hours to fully render some of these

things and procreate you know to to

produce this stuff so I'm very lucky

that my clients really trust in the

process yeah that's cool yeah and I was

that was another question I personally

was going to say is like how do you sort

of develop these I know we kind of

touched on it earlier but like how do

you sort of develop some of these

Concepts when people go do what you want

because like that usually isn't enough

of a prompt for most people you know so

like well it's not necessarily that

they'll be like hey I love your lady

faces or they'll have like some sort of

a psychedelic experience that they've

had or you know an animal that they like

and then you know I kind of conversate

with them and you know I look at the

body part I look you know I kind of just

feed off of them and it's such an

organic process you know that's one

thing it's so hard to put into words and

explain exactly how I do it but

um it's yeah honestly I I designed to

have fun you know and not over

fill areas with too much detail I like

to design very simple I love saturating

you know large areas of black I love

using big chunks of skin tone and that's

what's going to create a tattoo that's

going to last forever you know right and

and some some stuff I've been noticing

is that like you have certain approaches

for particular types of elements so like

when a face comes in it's usually

realism and whenever you have like a

secondary element it's a little bit more

neotrad or Japanese whenever it's a claw

or something like that and

then again I like I like drawing you

know what I'm saying I never want to be

and again the portraits are [ __ ]

amazing I do a lot of them but it's just

like I like being an artist and creating

stuff from sketching stuff out like it

feels so good and I feel like it has

such a good contrast against realism um

and it yeah it it feels like you're kind

of in The Best of Both Worlds with a lot

of stuff I'm the I'm the same way in

that I um uh I would be happy to

shortcut probably some of my um some of

my design process if I could find if I

had the patience to search images and do

collages but I I don't I just tend to

start blocking out shapes that fit the

area of the body I'm drawing to and

things like that um uh and and and so

that evolves into what my tattoos is

turned into the thing that I've noticed

whenever even if I were able to collab

collab or sorry collage things that

worked beautifully together I don't

enjoy looking at reference every 10

seconds like I don't like to look up

from the tattoo and I think that I

noticed that in in I can tell the

difference in like even your lady faces

like your realism I can tell that it's

kind of invented realism a lot as

opposed to a lot of like realism artists

you know well I have like formulas too

that I you know and I talk about this in

my seminar is like things that I look

for in specific areas to create like a

cohesive style even with my faces you

know certain Shadows that I use um and

just things like that in contrast you

know I mean I can take a photo that I

just like the angle and I'll go in there

and procreate and I'll kind of sketch

over it to idealize the image to fit to

make a really strong tattoo because not

all of them have the proper amount of

contrast it may be a beautiful face or

she's hot or that angle's cool but over

time the shadows and certain things

about the face aren't going to last over

time yeah I don't know who on the call

who here saw our interview with um Nik

herado but he talked a good bit about

that the importance of keeping

traditional tattoo kind of like um a

mindset whenever he's doing his realism

and like how how much he Silhouettes and

how many of those Silhouettes are

completely invented you know almost all

of them but yeah yeah same kind of idea

and like this piece that girl's back

piece you know she came in was like Oh I

wanna I want a Medusa and I was just

like dude that's like

it's been done so many times and again

I'm designing to have fun I'm like I

don't want to do a headful of snakes you

know and it also makes it to where the

face is going to be small and it's

something that you're going to run into

a person and be like oh we have the same

tattoo so my thing was is you know I

made the female face I made her a snake

you know it's still same same but

different you know what I mean yeah I

just noticed that as you were talking

about this yeah she's she's got the kind

of underbelly

you know snake teeth a tongue yeah and

now she has something you know my goal

is I've used this term is like to give

my clients the tattoo they never knew

they always wanted you know me taking my

expertise and my time in the industry to

give them something unique and not just

like oh yeah let's just do that you know

what I mean right and it takes the

client's trust in the artist and you

know being able to prove yourself with

your previous work and there's so many

people that I've when I was first

starting out that I've done free tattoos

on you know it's like you got to have a

menu before you can start charging

people for your food items you know what

I'm saying people always ask how do you

get to do all your cool stuff it's like

tattoo the [ __ ] out of somebody go to

some nice restaurants or bars and people

will be like holy [ __ ] who did that and

then now there that's exactly how it

starts you know yeah yeah great advice

how much how much time are you spending

painting these days supposed to

tattooing so that this was actually an

oil painting that I did um I don't paint

enough and my excuse is that I spend so

much time tattooing that I get home and

I think letting your brain chill is so

important I'll use this analogy you can

only squeeze so much lemon juice out of

a lemon you know what I mean and so when

I get home I I I don't

do I work out I eat healthy you know I

meditate I'll go to yoga I'll hang out

with friends um and I really try to shut

my art brain off you know um I've got a

painting sitting over here that's

talking [ __ ] to me right now that's like

you won't paint me um but I I do enjoy

it but it's just I feel I don't want to

take my job in vain and

just and there's other people that are

the opposite they can tattoo all day go

home and paint and they [ __ ] love it

but for me I don't paint a lot um I did

have a lot of fun on that piece um and

it makes me want to paint more watching

this video I'm like I need to do more of

that right it's impressive that you like

don't paint much but you but you got to

4 foot by five foot you're like I don't

really have a lot of time for painting

let me just stretch a canvas that's the

same size as me yeah um and again I

tattooing is just another medium like

whenever I do art it's like it's your

comprehension of what needs to happen of

values you know so it for me it wasn't

and honestly that was uh my first oil

painting I done really small one before

um and just I don't know my brain just

just understands it for some reason you

know yeah I even mixed out my my grays

very similar to I would do my gray wash

you know um I very much approached this

the way that I would tattoo and when I

did this T this painting as I told

myself was like I want to paint loose I

want to tap brush strokes and all of a

sudden I'm painting like I'm tattooing

and it's like super crisp you know and

being meticulous but I guess that's just

kind of how I how I do

right yeah question oh sorry Nicole go

ahead you you have to

unmute there we go that's better right

yeah um so I guess like what I'm curious

about is how far along in your career

did you really start to figure out how

to combine all these various stylistic

elements to create your voice and what

did that Journey look like for you um

well so in my seminar I talk about this

is something I I learned just in a

podcast and heard this and I was like

damn that's kind of how I I

subconsciously used this method to

create my transition into different

styles and so it's called It's called

The 8020 rules so if you're wanting to

Branch out into a different genre of

tattooing but say you're really good at

traditional right you're like man I can

slay some traditional but I want to get

more into portrait work so you would

talk with your client you be like hey

I'm kind of wanting to try something a

little bit different it's still going to

be Trad traditional but I think up in

this corner we're maybe going to do like

a a realistic rose or something which is

a great start for doing portrait work so

whenever you create this tattoo 80% of

this tattoo is going to be what you can

do 100% and make look [ __ ] amazing

right so and then it gives you this

little area to try something new and

whether this portrait of this Rose comes

out 100% looking just like that Rose or

whatever it's still going to look great

but it gave you this little area to try

something new and so you can kind of and

then as you do that you can kind of keep

applying it and then all of a sudden the

next one you're like well I killed that

rose that came out really nice well now

we're going to do this hand mixed with

you know some traditional flowers now

maybe the subject matter is more

portrait but then it still has some

traditional in there and you can all of

a sudden start to rotate your style into

a different direction instead of sitting

down a client or somebody and you're

just crossing your fingers and you're

about to do this whole big portrait you

know which can create and can can mess

with your your mindset too about going

back in and trying something something

like that um so that's a really

important way and to to do what you're

good at because people like how do you

find your style my style was things that

I was good at and that creates good

interactions with your clients that's

good work that's out there that people

are going to see and they're going to

come to you you know and so you just

start adding these little nuances in

there that might be a little bit

different but the overall tattoo is

still awesome and then you just keep

adding that little bit of newness to it

that's a great interpretation or way to

apply the 8020 rule that's a famous rule

in all types of ways you know like

that's a great way to think about it I I

love that like 80% of the tattoo is

something you know you can nail and even

if you don't nail the 20% the tattoo is

still a success and it probably is a

success I mean you know they say like if

you you know if you're kind of if you if

you're if you're shooting for whatever

uh uh a 10x return even if you land 3x

it's it's like pretty good you know so

even if the rose to your point isn't

like the rose you wanted you I mean it's

probably still pretty good you know like

that's to try it you know you didn't

create a tattoo that you're that you

feel bad about you know that you're not

gonna be happy with yeah yeah some

something I was just looking at this one

as you're talking and thinking about the

importance um of kind of repetition of

shapes in your work like abstract shapes

and realistic shapes like believable

shapes so you've got the um those shapes

you've got like this kind of vertical

that's dark that breaks the plane of the

hand and this vertical that's a negative

shape that lands into the hand you but

you do them like like this one without

this one is a is an isore right right

that doesn't work without this and you

do that a

lot uh with with all kinds of shapes is

that subconscious or conscious or man

it's it's subconscious bro and like

what's weird is when I do it sometimes

I'm making these decisions like I'll lay

out these key shapes just laying out the

composition and I'll be tattooing and

I'm like I don't know if this is going

to be solid black or negative space and

all of a sudden you know I try to be in

the moment and working on this specific

area and I'm like okay well this is dark

and I'm mindful of like how contrast

needs to play off of each other and so

kind of I'm watching it kind of form as

I'm working which again is it's [ __ ]

fun you know what I'm saying and I'm not

encouraging someone to do that if you're

not haven't been tattooing a while

because you could have in a be in a

scenario where you're kind of like oh

[ __ ] you you know um but like that one

you were showing is like I had all that

sketched on there and I really didn't

know what was going to be positive or

negative and then sometimes you know I'm

adjusting the contrast or darkness of

something as I'm tattooing it and I may

go darker in an area than than in the

reference that it's not um and so you

know I just uh it's a very like EB and

flow of like what's gonna happen you

know it's it's really fun yeah how do

you think about that because you are

making a lot of decisions in the in the

skin obviously like what do you um and

over and over 20 years you know you

learn when the Skin's had enough and

when it has it but what do you think

about when you're I like are you trying

to render and finish as you go or do you

know I'm not sure how dark this actually

is I'm G to leave some uh some room to

come back through like I'm gonna leave

the skin in a place that I can come back

through and a lot of my stuff you know

depending on how large it is like I kind

of work like a printer and so I make

those decisions pretty confidently and

at the time um because again I I try not

to overwork the skin and every time I

touch the skin it's very very deliberate

and with the with the proper tone and

that's what kind of gives it that real

richness to it um and try not to to

irritate the skin too

much and that's again where you know the

the the consistency in your your wash

setups and and all that stuff plays such

a big part because you know I can take a

dark wash and if I tattooed that in the

skin and pretty much anybody around me

if they saw that they' be like that's

black and I'm like I know in about 30

minutes once that redness chills out and

it's next to my black that it's not

black and then all of a sudden it

creates these really deep tones which I

feel like are the most important ones

that give stuff a lot of depth that that

that I'm even guilty of of doing back in

the day is my wash setup was so light

there was this big gap of value that

would be missing between my blacks and

my my lighter tones and so I've really

enjoyed that that darker depth of field

and

separation yeah I think that's a common

um uh early tattoo mistake is to is to

work in midtones for way too long and

end up with no real deliberate decisions

and you can't tell where like you don't

even know what you're supposed to look

at in the heel tattoo everything's under

I work on this sleeve so bad he needs to

come back such a cool yeah I was just

like such a cool piece I was thinking

looking at the first all well I was

first looking at the the the muted tones

in the foreground of the portrait in the

in the color background and then I was

also looking at this like kind of brick

reddish Line work which is it just like

is it a gray is itay lines with red over

or is it just like a light wash line and

that that all of that was in one session

pretty much I did that hand and then

wash lined all of that stuff in there um

chain is a gray wash line or a color

wash line it's a wash line great wash it

looks like bricked yeah and I mean that

could be fact that when I was working on

the hand up there that there are some

deep red undertones that I was mixing

with my opaques yeah as you wipe and

stuff but I've seen him since then and

it it's just like a very light uh wash

line and I like doing a wash line

because it's easy to cover up even with

a midtone so you end up with literally

zero Line work in something if you're

trying to make it look uh realistic yeah

yeah yeah this is a yeah talk for a

second if you can about this piece it's

such a it's a bold move I think have the

you know the kind of these are just all

opaque Grays I guess in the foreground

in the color background um you know

normally people think about color

saturation like jumping forward but

obviously this the way that you've

rendered it the foreground face reads as

if it's in front you know like the

strong contrast and you know silhouetted

shapes and all that kind of stuff uh

well again it's like I almost throw out

the fact that that other face is even

color you know and you have to think

about it in terms of of uh value and

contrast instead of just like oh you

know bright colors you know what I'm

saying like if you take this tattoo and

turn it black and gray it's gonna it's

going to read really hard and so that's

also whenever you're using references

you know portrait references it's

important to understand what's making

like like that male face had a dark

background behind it so I knew that the

face behind it needs to have a darker

value to push that face out you know

what I'm saying so that it's is acting

like a background even though it's still

foreground cuz in real in reality uh

he's actually inside of her chin like

which is kind of trippy so he's not

necessarily on top it's like a very

weird yeah yeah that it is it took me a

second it was until I zoomed out that I

realized it like that's her jawline and

he is almost like framed by her face

yeah yeah very surreal yeah that's uh

and a and bold like it's a bold decision

to make you know cuz you pulled like the

color in here you also have the kind of

uh post of this Lantern or whatever

whipping in in that area a lot of like

you made a lot of decisions that I would

have been scared like oh this could go

south pretty fast like yeah you know

like this like what if this grabbed a t

became this tangent and grabbed a lot of

attention but for me it didn't I was

just paying ATT you you did a good job

of pushing my focus away from like that

being a thing yeah yeah

yeah really cool

man it's are you your video guy is he

doing a lot of your like final kind of

production work because you've got a lot

of Storytelling and a lot of eye candy

outside of the tattoo all the way yeah

he's a friend of mine we've known each

other for quite some time uh and I I

tattoo him you know so we kind of work

with each other and kind of making each

other's lives badass yeah so the guy

that has the head tattoo is actually my

videographer oh okay okay gota that

thing the healed the healed photo of

that we were talking about something

else whenever that went by but that's uh

that settled in so nicely that that

portrait settled in so

nicely yeah um yeah yeah super cool any

um I don't want to keep you all night

we're an hour in usually these things go

hour hour and a half does anyone want to

uh anyone have questions any I thought I

saw a couple questions pop up oh yeah

Dan you

Dan will you read whatever's popping in

yeah baller has a question again um okay

he said I find unless unless you want to

unmute and say

it you give him a second he's he's

trying

Okay this not working no that's okay I

I'll just say it's fine um he says I

find when I do color I'm not sure how

it's going to look until somewhere

around the last 10% so he's sweating it

for a while um does that sound normal to

you or is that like you know I'm trying

to understand what he means at the last

10

per.

yeah yeah maybe if you can what's the

issue with unmuting just K I don't know

uh yeah try tapping on the screen

like there we go he's good yeah oh he

was there a second ago now he's gone no

he's

sorry we'll just edit this stuff out

sorry guys oh we don't have to edit it

it's fine people can people can sit

through it if they didn't show up live

they get to sit okay I think am I on yes

you're on you got it you got it man good

good job I'm trying to I'm trying to ask

these questions so quickly so so I'm

still on topic um your work is so

amazing I I find that sometimes I I I I

have a feig I have an idea where of what

to do where I'm doing it um but it's a

combination of of these elements that

I'm not too sure what these colors are

actually going to uh do until I'm near

the end of my my my tattoo of my project

as the color like as the redness and

irritation chills out is what you're

getting

at um well it's like I know I'm gonna

put some red or blue here and there but

there the effect anyway I find it so

exciting

at the end where I see the work I've

been doing when you were saying that you

know you don't you kind of freehand um I

also do that on in my own way and uh

it's I don't really know exactly like I

did a dragon face uh two dragons fire

one and ice one a couple weeks ago

pretty big on the chest and I figured

just fire in the mouth dark around the

the outside of the mouth and let's go

from there kind of thing and could we

look could we look at the piece do you

have it do you have it on Instagram

where we can take a look and know what

you're talking about yeah yeah okay yeah

how how long you been tattooing if you

don't mind me asking uh for 10 years now

10 years Okay Okay cool so is color like

a new like a new medium for you did you

mostly do black and gray hold on one

second um before you answer that Baler

what's your what's your Instagram Jake's

just gonna pull it up yeah let me just

pull it up so while you're answering

Zach's questions we can look and maybe

get a feel awesome wow baller tattoo B A

LCR

tattoo c c not s oh c sorry

sorry okay go ahead you can answer I'll

find it now and it it's the second one

i' actually I really love doing color um

and yeah that that's that there you go

so it's a cover up okay

cool and uh you know I have like a

reference picture of a dragon from

Pinterest where it just shows I I just

want to follow some basic colors and and

stuff and then I just go ahead and you

know and so you're confused on what it's

going like what the final result is

going to be like you don't feel

confident in the uh in the color for 70

80% of the process and you're kind of

curious about what's one thing I I'll

say too is is is trusting in the

pigments like whenever you're getting

out your colors right you know is making

sure that you break it down the rule of

three you're going to have obviously

you're using black is super important so

you can put that out and then you need

to have like a midtone red and a and a

light red and you could even have

something that you can soften that like

lipstick red or whatever red with you

know whether it's a tangerine or um uh

like a Georgia peach or something like

that to just pull it to its brightest

tone and then just really saturate it

and Trust the fact that like that you

shaded this specific area with the rule

three it's like okay it's this much

black this much midtone and this much of

the the lightest tone and just trust in

that you know and and that's really the

biggest thing is you can get caught in

your head and you know sometimes you put

a light tone in there and you're like oh

it looks darker than it should be and

then you're like going back in there and

then you start chasing it in circles you

know when maybe the first time that you

made that pass it actually was good and

you need to just just leave it you know

what I'm

saying okay and also just consistency

you know like

uh maybe try whenever you use Reds or

blues and this will kind of help you

create a style as well pour out the same

[ __ ] Reds this and then each tattoo

you're like oh and you start to learn

this formula with these same three

instead of this tattoo you used these

three Reds and then this tattoo you used

these three Reds and then this tattoo

you had like purple under your red it's

like if you if you look at some of my

work I'll use the tones and they're the

same color palettes I mean recently I've

been branching get more wild with it but

you create this trust in your work

because you've done it so many times you

know and like say you know there's a set

of Blues use the same blues and really

really learn

um how those specific colors and then

once you've got those down then you can

Branch out to you know maybe laying a

purple undertone under your red you know

or you know and start tweaking it from

there but it's it's kind of creating

that trust in your process you know

yeah

sorry I think also you know when when

you think about it from a standpoint of

principles you know you've you're doing

a good job of like drawing shapes that

fit the body kind you that fit the body

well uh it and then and then it comes uh

to to values to like dark and light and

dark and light is so much more important

than color so if you know for example

like what on these like like Zach was

talking about if you pulled that T I was

talking about the black and gray fa face

in front of of the color face he's like

if you dropped it to gray scale it would

work that that is the most important

probably statement that that he made in

that part of the discussion is that like

so for example in the in the in the Reds

here that yellow because it's

silhouetted by all the Darks of the

teeth like if that's your strongest

shape which that's kind of what I want

to look at the most I want to look at

like the glow inside the mouth framed by

the silhouetted teeth outside of the

mouth everything outside of that like

should be probably darker than that

yellow inside the mouth but see I see

these little like juts of this same

color I see them all on the underside of

the belly I see them out here and it's

because you're trying to use that color

everywhere but from a value standpoint

you probably want that lightest tone to

be inside the mouth because that I mean

at least or you need to make that

decision but to me in this piece that

brightest tone should be inside the

mouth and nothing out here none of this

stuff should be as light as

this yeah and at the same time you did a

good job covering that up I mean the

Tattoo's gone you know you do have you

you do have dark tones midtones and and

a lighter tone but I think like I was

saying is is is having that repetition

of using this the same colors um unless

obviously you're doing a flag or

something and it's a specific red but as

as an artist try to use a consistent

color palette which will help you create

a style and you'll you'll learn like

you'll you'll know as soon as you put

this color in and you dip into this one

into this one exactly what it's going to

do and it's not going to be this mystery

as you go yeah that's that is a very

good point good point that's ju and and

before and Kurt has a question but

before we move on to Kurt's question and

that's something I've heard uh somebody

like Andy chamers say a lot you know um

just he he uses dried blood like more

than any other color and then he'll say

using like a peach or like you know he

does his Reds in an extremely specific

way or his blue transitions in an

extremely specific way he'll use like

these three colors for for you know each

each

Hue um and it's it's similar to what you

what they've already been saying like

there so many artists that do that kind

of thing it's like it goes back to the

8020 thing that Zach was just talking

about where you um like it like if when

you're testing a variable only test that

variable like get everything else pinned

down and when you're ready to take a

leap take a leap there don't take a leap

in four directions at once take a leap

in one spot yeah that's uh these like

sorry Kurt I'm GNA let you talk but

these um your loose sketches here for

these things are beautiful I love this

stuff is so nice more of that keep that

going thank

you thank you very

much Kurt what you

got he's got a he's got a rolling over

yeah I do hey uh uh I just I don't have

a question or anything like that I just

wanted to say uh thank you sir thank you

very much for your time and I look

forward to hearing more from you I'm

going to uh take your seminar at middle

of the map and uh just really just

wanted to say thank you very much for

your time I appreciate you listening in

looking forward to meeting you you you

should definitely meet Kurt he's one of

our uh Allstars of uh the inside

Fireside Club he's an incredible

tattooer and he's he's a large

scale like competitive tattooer like he

travels to win best of show and

time and he's he's awesome he's a great

he does 30 to 60 hour pieces yeah and a

really awesome dude too so you you

should definitely catch up in middle of

the map I have not been to that show you

know they their first one they reached

out and and invited me and I couldn't I

hadn't something else and then now

everyone I know goes to middle of the

map I've never even met the people who

put it

on uh this is my my first time there I'm

yeah yeah seems like a great show people

seem to want to come back to to it and I

hate that I missed it I kind I like I

guess I kind of missed out on the I mean

I'm sure I could still go but I I kind

of missed out on the start of it uh I do

I do want to say if anybody else has any

questions it doesn't have to be relevant

to something that was said recently if

there was something earlier in the

conversation that you have a question

about or if you want us to go back to a

topic um we can totally do that and like

elaborate on something so uh if not I

want to talk about Barefoot um I'm a I

don't know if you know I don't know if

you keep up with me at all but I'm a big

uh uh wake water person I've I've wake

boarded my whole life I I've never done

any Barefoot skiing I'm more of a I'm a

old man now so I do wake surfing but how

is that wait how's that Barefoot stuff

oh man barefooting [ __ ] rush dude you

can uh definitely take a slap you know

I'm going yeah [ __ ] I think I'm

going like

41 right there yeah I fast enough to

skim across the water on your bare feet

that's awesome how do you feel like that

helps your tattooing just kidding

honestly you know what's Wild I think

extreme sports and getting your brain to

do other things to help wire different

neurotransmitters and stuff like that I

noticed the healthier I got the more

that I work out and I I I can literally

take a break from Making art and go

snowboarding take care of myself work

out get my health on dude I'll come back

[ __ ] my brain's just firing and I'm

pulling creativity from so many

different areas um again I always use

the analogy like you can always squeeze

so much lemon juice out of a lemon and

people it you do need to grind and draw

but at the same time you need to do

other things for your brain and those

are going to help you traumatically like

especially with artist block like that's

your body saying go [ __ ] do something

else like you don't need to sit there

and get frustrated like oh I can't do it

like [ __ ] take a week break if you

can do it go go try a new sport go

[ __ ] play tennis go rock climb go do

something else to get your brain and use

to do something else and you'll come

back into your art with a whole

different perspective and I can't

encourage that

enough try and get into calisthenics and

then cry a lot and then you know put

that put your pain into your art yeah

that too well yeah well well well said

you should do um you should uh co-host a

Fireside yacht club with me have you

seen Fireside Yacht Club

yet we do a thing at my boat I've got a

motor yacht in uh in uh Heber Springs

Arkansas GF Lake like around the Ozarks

Beau G is beautiful dude yeah yeah so

I've got a I'm there every weekend and

we just did our first Yacht Club Nick

Baxter was our co-host we're doing one

in June that Andy Chambers is going to

co-host with me but you should come do

one since you're a water sports guy we

have a bunch of cliffs if you're in

cliff diving and uh it's only for five

taters so five taters me and you and

spouses or whatever but uh it's a uh

it's cool we spend the days on the boat

we've got in in that area we have

waterfalls and stuff so we'll go draw

and paint at the waterfall hike a little

bit um sounds amazing yeah you should

you should you should I'll reach out to

you about it after this we'll we should

plan one and you should come and be my

uh co-host for it since yeah uh any uh

anyone else I know we're yeah we're an

hour and 15 minutes in uh but I I don't

want to shut anyone down if you have

questions no all right are you

inspired you want to what say it again I

just feel super inspired so thank you

awesome that's that's amazing I'm glad

that you got something from this yeah

yeah yeah man I I'm with you I love uh

you know I'm always excited anytime any

of your work pops up I love to see how

it's evolved you know I thought it was I

thought it was incredible six or eight

years ago and then now I see what you

know what

you know what the next level of it is

and I'm excited to see what it is after

that so I'm I'm just happy that you took

a little time to spend with us thank you

and I appreciate the tattoo industry you

know there's so many talented artists

out there inspiring me as well um I love

seeing all this crazy cool new [ __ ] and

the quality of work that's happening so

everybody just needs to keep killing it

let's go yeah absolutely yeah well cool

all right well if anyone showed up late

this was all recorded we'll uh we'll

post it um once uh once Dan gets done

probably the next couple of days and um

man Zach this is awesome I hope we cross

path soon I don't know what I'm sure

we'll I'm sure we'll see each other to

show soon but either way I am gonna

reach out to you about a Fireside Yacht

Club you should come do one with me

they're a lot of fun did it dude all

right most definitely cool all right

everybody good to see you all good night

for having me I really appreciate it all

right thanks for spending a little time

with us I hope you got something out of

that like I said if you would like to be

a part of these discussions going

forward we do these at least once every

single month along with with mindset

Mondays and drawing challenges and lots

of other events uh in the club I'd love

to have you try it out and see if it

might be something that helps you grow

your tattoo skill set uh what else I

think that's it have a good one we'll

see you next time