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Original subtitles

BALLOONS POPPING, CHILDREN SQUEALING

MICHAEL APTED: In 1964, Granada Television brought together

a group of seven-year-olds.

We have followed their lives every seven years.

They talked about their dreams, their ambitions...

..and their fears for the future.

DOUGLAS KEAY:Give me a child until he is seven,

and I will give you the man.

I read the Financial Times.

Sometimes, we can't play nicely with the boys,

and sometimes, we go out and argue with the boys.

Do you want to be rich?

Well, yes, because I don't want to be tied down

to the dullness of an everyday job.

I think if you're healthy and have good friends,

you can get on perfectly well.

What do you want for yourself, then?

Just be content with what I'm doing, to know where I'm going,

and to remember fondly what I've done.

I'd like to find out all about the moon and all that.

Do you want to take up farming? No.

But as a last resort.

Was gonna be a film star

but now I'm gonna be an electrical engineer.

Aren't you worth more than this?

I'm going to work in Woolworths.

I would help the poor.

Yeah, cos the poor,

if you don't help them, they'll sort of die soon, wouldn't they?

Well, some people are just born into rich families, and they're lucky.

An education is very important.

Good education, that's something that no-one can take away.

Because we've been to private schools,

it's not that we're better qualified.

We've been taught to expect more.

The posh 'uns, "Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes."

They're nuts.

Obviously, if you come from with a silver spoon,

you're gonna get more attractive jobs and easier life.

But I think you've also seen that it doesn't always work that way.

At seven and 14, everybody was in love with you.

And now nobody speaks to me.

When I leave school, I may want to go to a university,

but I don't know which one yet.

What does university mean?

Why is it that you three haven't changed?

We've all had a stable background with stable relationships.

'You can be born shy. You can be born as an extrovert.

'You can be someone who likes to make people laugh.

'You can be someone who's much quieter and deeper.'

And I think that's in you, but then life happens.

I have had regretful behaviour at various times.

We all make mistakes in everything, from parenting to decisions in life,

and that's how you become the person you are.

The years are flying through my mind at the moment.

The future is not maybe as bright as it would have been

for a kid coming out a university like me in the late '70s.

I can't really recognise myself.

He looks a little bit lost and a little bit sad,

and I'm quite sort of surprised to be sort of contented.

The moment of pure, unadulterated joy in my life

was when my son was handed to me when he was born.

I have never felt so optimistic,

so just purely unworried about anything.

Real-life TV, with the added bonus that you can see people grow old,

lose their hair, get fat. Fascinating.

ALL:Cheers!

Every time this programme starts, it says,

"Give me a child till they're seven, and I will give you the man."

Is that true or false?

CHILDREN SQUEALING

They're teddy bears. They're not real.

CHILDREN SQUEALING

Look at those claws.

DOUGLAS KEAY: This is no ordinary outing at the zoo.

It's a very special occasion.

We've brought these 20 children together for the very first time.

CHILDREN SQUEALING

They're like any other children,

except that they come from startlingly different backgrounds.

You musn't give it. "No feeding," it says.

We brought these children together

because we wanted a glimpse of England in the year 2000.

LAUGHTER

Let's get to know these children.

MICHAEL APTED: What do you think about rich people?

Er...

Not much.

Rich children always make fun

of poor children, I think. Yes.

Yes. They say, "Oh, look at that lovely little sissy over there."

Or something horrible. Yes.

They're nuts.

Just have to touch 'em.

They'd like to come out for a holiday in the country

when we like... when I'd like to have a holiday in the town.

What would you do if you had lots of money?

Me? About £2.

I would buy myself a new nice house now.

One that's all nice and comfy.

We should give all... some... most of our money to the poor people.

When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut,

but if I can't be an astronaut, I think I'll be a coach driver.

BELL RINGS, HE GRUNTS

I was born a little Artful Dodger on the street.

Arse hanging out my trousers.

I was always here, there and everywhere.

Adventure. Cheeky.

Is it important to fight? Yes.

And I've never changed.

A bird said to me the other day, "Ain't you small?"

So I said, "But you're ugly. At least I can grow."

I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.

Yeah, I want to be a jockey when I grow up.

Tony left his East End secondary modern school at 15.

I walked into a stable, and there...

it was like a mammoth racehorse.

I got on it.

And now I'm up in the air.

And I felt like I was John Wayne in the Wild West...

..and the die was cast.

Within a month, he called me in the office.

He said, "You get on with that horse, don't you?"

I said, "Yes, sir."

He said, "I'm just letting you know

"you're riding him at Kempton in a race.

"Tell your mum and dad. Make sure they're there."

I'm a wet-behind-the-ear kid,

and there I am, walking into the parade ring,

seeing my mum and dad crying.

HE CLICKS TONGUE

I thought to myself,

here I was yesterday, sort of nobody,

and here I am today, I'm king.

Like, I felt king for one day or for ten minutes.

But my guv'nor said,

"I've got faith in you, Tony, but," he says,

"you're gonna find it hard."

I said, "Why is that?" He said, "Your weight."

I said, "Weight? I'm 8 stone 2, Guv'nor."

He said, "I know, but you're getting lumpy now.

"You're getting bigger."

And I thought about my weight.

I thought about the ambition, the longevity,

and I thought, "That's me blown."

And I went out the game, and it...

..broke...

VOICE BREAKS:It broke my heart.

It was the greatest mistake I've ever made in my life

at that particular time, saying, "Right, let's go home,"

and it wasn't the right decision.

What will you do if you don't make it as a jockey?

I don't know.

If I knew I couldn't be one, I'd get out of the game.

Wouldn't bother. What do you think you would do then?

Learn on taxis. Taxi driver.

It's surprising who you pick up, you see.

I once met Kojak. I picked him up.

But, son, it's hard work out there. You're not reaching me yet.

At 28, Tony was taking acting lessons.

Be bigger. Dominate me. All right?

Son... Yeah.

Son, it's a big world out there, and obviously, I'm not...

I can't get into it, Brian. All right, don't worry.

Pardon the expression, but can you do my inside leg?

He now works as an extra.

Now I know how Bruce Willis feels.

'I'll have a go at anything, especially acting.

'I've always said it -

'there's never, ever a thing in my life

'I've never set out to do that I've never achieved.

'I wanted to be a jockey.

'Thank God, I rode on a race with Lester Piggott, and I did it.

'I wanted to be in the film game - I got in it,

'working with Steven Spielberg for two weeks on one of his films.'

I made it happen on my terms, and no-one can say, "I helped him."

And I'm more stronger in that respect.

But you didn't pull it off. You didn't pull a jockey off.

You haven't made it as an actor. You didn't pull off the pub.

Well, it's better to be a has-been than a never-was, wasn't it?

'My ambitions have gone out the window now cos I'm running a family.

'I'm playing a role now. That is my role in life, I feel.'

Have you got a girlfriend? No.

Would you like to have a girlfriend? No.

You understand the four Fs?

Find 'em, feed 'em... and forget 'em.

The other F, I'll let you use your own discrimin...

I mean, this one,

I tried to do the three Fs, but I couldn't forget her.

He was in the pub earlier on,

and afterwards, we went to a discotheque,

and Tony was down there, and I just...

from there, I just... that was it.

HE CHUCKLES

Couldn't get rid of him. THEY LAUGH

We have our ups and downs, no more than anyone else.

I think you've got to work at a marriage.

I think all marriages go through stages.

You can't stand each other. You go through, you know,

I think, "Oh, God, I hate him."

"I wish he'd get out." Oof.

I'm not proud at all to say this,

but situations arise that...

I have... have had regretful behaviour

at various times, but...

through... You got caught.

Yeah, I... And that was it.

I don't really know how I've got over things with him, to be honest.

Sometimes, I don't feel that I have, to be perfectly honest with you.

Erm...

But I'm still here.

What can I say? We are, aren't we?

Yeah.

I've always loved you, from the moment I met you,

despite any things I've ever... done.

But in saying that, I'm here, you're here, I'm here,

and we're still together after, what, 46 years?

Yeah. Yeah.

Lifetime. Nothing wrong with that.

SHE LAUGHS

BELL RINGS

'I've fulfilled everything I've wanted to do,

'silly as it may seem.

'I'm at the last nine holes of my life now.

'I'm 70 years old and very happy in my semi-retirement.'

SINGING IN LATIN

Singing Waltzing Matilda in Latin

at an exclusive pre-preparatory school in London,

Charles...

..Andrew and John.

When I leave the school, I'm going to Connaught Court.

And then I will be going to Westminster boarding school

if I pass the exam.

And then we think I'm going to Cambridge and Trinity Hall.

John went to Westminster School.

Are you ambitious?

Yes. What for?

Well...

Well, fame.

And power.

What sort of power? Political power.

Are you ruthless? Not really.

Do you think you can have political power without being ruthless?

Yes.

Well, what qualities do you need to have political power, then,

if it's not ruthlessness?

Great strength of mind.

John is in his final year at Christ Church, Oxford, reading law.

I do believe parents have a right

to educate their children as they think fit.

I think someone who works on the assembly line

in some of these car factories and earning a huge wage

could well afford to send their children to private school

if they wanted to.

I now have a career. I'm a barrister.

Other than that, life chugs along in varying degrees.

Well, in a sense, not very much has changed in my career

over the last 14 years.

I'm still a barrister, and I still wear a curly white wig.

The only visible difference, I suppose,

is I wear a silk gown because I'm now a QC.

Week after next is ideal. Yeah, the week after next.

Except for Monday. I know...

'I'm a chancery commercial barrister.

'I'm involved in various big cases

'which all are working towards a trial in court

'at the end of the day.'

But with these big cases, there's a lot of work that needs to be done

before the case ever comes to court.

In the last seven years,

I suppose the changes are a bit less hair, on the one hand,

and a bit stiffer,

getting on and off of horses in particular.

I do believe in a sort of ordered and structured society,

and I think... you know...

we're not exactly alive for very long.

We've each got our own job to do

and our own little position to be in.

'Some people have a better time than others,

'but, you know, it doesn't mean because you sweep the streets,

'you're any less valuable

'than someone who's running a huge corporation.'

DOGS BARKING

'Not everyone can be at the top.'

The hounds are over there, I think.

'I hadn't been very happy with the way I'd been portrayed.'

I felt... that I had been set up...

..as the... bad guy or bogeyman

to represent an outmoded... class system

that had no validity in the modern world.

DOUGLAS KEAY: From this Liverpool suburb...

..we chose Neil.

When I go home, I come... I come in, and Mummy gives me a cup of tea,

and then I go out and play.

Well, we pretend we've got swords,

and we make the noise of the swords fighting.

And when somebody stabs us, we go, "Ahh!"

'Then I moved up to a comprehensive school.'

Being in set one, it's very, very hard to keep up with the leaders.

I never have a time to relax at all.

MICHAEL APTED: Neil grew up in a Liverpool suburb

and had dreams of going to Oxford but didn't get in.

Instead, he went to Aberdeen University

but dropped out after the first term.

A 21, Neil was working on a building site and living in a squat.

'You've kicked against the stability.'

I don't think I ever had any stability... to be quite honest.

I can't think of any time in my life when I ever did.

I don't think I've been kicking against anything.

I think I've been kicking in midair the whole of my life.

For the last seven years, Neil has been moving around Britain.

He was homeless.

'Do you begrudge people who have wealth?'

Not really. I wish they used it more for the good of humankind.

I think it's important that the people who are in authority

should have as much knowledge and experience

of as many things as possible.

Otherwise, they aren't... they aren't fit to make judgements

that affect other people.

And I think it's tragic that so many people in authority

have had so little experience of... of... of suffering,

perhaps of homelessness, of being short of money,

of having their own independence threatened.

Some people just seem to make a very short cut to the top.

Now, I've no doubt that this is because they have the abilities

to get them there.

This is... This speaks for itself,

but they get there without going through the swamps.

They get there on the easy road, and once they get there,

they're in no situation to understand the feelings of people

who've never got out of the swamp.

I'm a lot happier now than I was seven years ago.

Do you accept things more? Is that what you're saying?

Yes, I think so.

But why should you accept this?

You're better than all this, aren't you?

No, I'm not better than anything or anybody.

I'm just somebody with... with my own particular difficulties,

my own particular obstacles to surmount.

And everybody else is doing exactly the same thing.

At 35, he's living in a council flat in the Shetland Islands.

Nice thing about here is that you can cut yourself off

when you want because there are people living around,

but they're pretty quiet people.

How do you manage for money these days?

Social security.

Still. I wish it wasn't, but I'm afraid it is.

I've no desire to be putting the taxes up

and drawing money off people who've earn it themselves.

So, do you think you have failed?

Can't really judge.

Do you feel you've failed yourself?

Well, my life isn't over.

Can you think what you'd like to be doing in the year 2000?

I can think of all kinds of things that I'd like to be doing.

The real question is what... what am I...

what am I likely to be doing?

Erm...

What are you likely to be doing? And that's a horrible question.

I tend to think the most likely answer

is that I'll be wandering homeless around the streets of London.

But with a bit of luck, that won't happen.

Some of the considerable disadvantages

that residents of the Trowbridge Estate area have in comparison -

they are geographically isolated,

they're separated from most of Hackney by...

At 42, he's a Liberal Democrat member of Hackney Council.

He was elected two years ago.

'While I was in Shetland,

'I felt very strongly that I should become involved in politics

'simply because I felt I was not achieving anything

'in the ways I really wanted to.

'And I could see decisions being made politically

'by people I felt were not competent to make them

'and who I felt were not representing

'the majority of the public, and I felt angry.'

And I thought, in my own small way,

I've got to get in there, and I think more people should.

I think it's only apathy which leads to bad government at any level.

At 49, Neil has left London,

moved to Cumbria in the North West of England.

CHOIR SINGS

# Are the Holy One

# You alone. #

'I'm the lay minister.

'I'm licensed to carry out quite a number of functions.'

It includes services, preaching, taking part in the readings,

helping to distribute the communion, and so on.

In fact, I can do more or less everything a priest can do.

If you haven't already been told,

the proposed pet show is unfortunately cancelled.

'I wake up every day, and I don't know what's gonna happen.'

I don't know where I will be in a month's time,

six months' time, a year's time.

My Christian faith helps me.

Richard, nice to see you. Pleased, Sarah.

I do enjoy times of interaction with others,

but the gut experience of my life

is a very lonely struggle

to try to get towards something I...

I much of the time imagine I'm never going to get to.

So it's...

It is like somebody climbing a rock face only to keep falling back,

and every so often, you have to ask yourself, "Why?"

But you can't just stay where you are.

Human beings are existential beings.

We have to strive towards what we want to achieve.

One has to retire at some point. There's no perfect time.

The issue is just where does the money come from now I'm retired?

But we'll deal with that as the issues come along.

I'm now a resident of France, not a French citizen,

but I am a resident of France.

I'm living in the house I came to for so many years on holiday.

It's a bit damp in places...

but serves me fine.

And the house is a lot bigger

than the very small flat I was living in in Cumbria.

It's nice to move around, but in fact,

I don't use all the rooms anyway,

especially not in the winter... cos there's no heating in the house.

I know this looks a bit like some of those houses

where people hoard things and...

..and it ends up all falling over,

but actually, it does have a purpose.

And hopefully, by about November, it will be a lot less.

When I get married, I don't want to have any children

because they are always doing naughty things

and making the whole house untidy.

And what about you, Jackie?

My mum, cos she got five girls, she had seven years' bad luck.

That's why she's got five girls.

'Jackie, Lynn and Susan,

'they went to primary school together in the East End of London.

'Lynn chose to go on to a grammar school

'and Jackie and Susan to a comprehensive.'

There is a danger that you would get married at early 20s

and have children quickly and then be stuck at home.

Have you any thoughts on that?

I don't really think about it much. No.

I don't think I'd...

..get married too early.

I'd like to have a full life first and meet people.

I'd like to enjoy myself before I... Yeah.

Before you commit yourself to a family.

We had a teacher at school that his favourite ploy was,

"All you girls want to do is walk out..."

Is get married. "..get married, have babies,

"and push a pram down the street

"with a fag hanging out the side of your mouth."

God, if there's ever a sentence I'd resent,

it'd be that one. Yeah.

Jackie was married last year and now lives on a new estate in Essex.

It's a nice estate. Yeah. Yeah, it's not bad at all.

What are they like, the neighbours? Do you see a lot of them or what?

Well, you know, sort of just say hello to them more than anything.

I mean, we borrow things off of them, which is just as well!

Yeah. Look through there.

That's the nursery, if you don't mind.

The baby's room. Yeah. Baby's room.

Got any plans? Oh, do me a favour.

Already? So soon?

At 21, Jackie had moved into a new house.

She has decided not to have any children.

'Basically, I would say because I'm far too selfish.'

I enjoy doing what I want, when I want and how I want,

and certainly at the moment, I... I can't see any way around that.

Jackie works for an insurance company in the city.

'I certainly don't wanna stay

'in the position I am at the moment forever and ever.

'But how ambitious, I'm not really sure.

'Tends to change as you get older

'so... just gotta wait and see, really.'

Everything's not that cut and dried.

It's not either career or family or...

But it's what's in the middle.

I mean, am I just gonna carry on as I am now for...

SHE LAUGHS ..and end up on the shelf?

Or am I just going to get married? Could be any day, but...

I suppose Lynn is a career girl in a way, isn't she?

Yeah, she's more wrapped up in her job than I think we are.

Well, I'm a school mobile librarian

and assistant to the young people's office,

which is where we are now.

And I've been here since August last year.

At 21, she began a career as a children's librarian,

starting off in a mobile library in East London.

'I love working with children.

'You might remember on the last one, I wanted to teach.'

I've not stamped yours.

Sleeping Beauty.

'Teaching children the beauty of books

'and watching their faces as books unfold to them is just fantastic.'

To work with children of that age, you've gotta love them,

and I love children.

If I could, I would have two girls and two boys.

I've been married a year and... couple of months.

You do think, "Christ, what have I done?"

See, I've still got my...

And I'm being honest about it. Yeah.

And Russ thinks the same.

You think... At times, you think, "Christ, what have I done?"

When she was 19, she married Russ.

They had two daughters, Sarah and Emma.

'I'm very much geared to the family unit.

'We do things together all the time.

'We flourished together.'

Where's the big rhinoceros?

'37 years. Gone extremely quickly.

'We've just grown together.'

By the time she was 35, Lynn's mother had died.

She was a great friend to me, as well as a mum.

Probably the best friend I'll ever have.

And as you see, it still makes me very emotional now.

It's only two years.

For some, it probably seems, "Oh, it's a long time."

It's not very long.

'Because of cuts in the education budget,

'the mobile library was shut down.

'At 42, Lynn was working at Bethnal Green Library.

'When we went back at 49, she was still there.'

When I last saw you,

I was telling you that I didn't know if I'd have a job.

They finally told me, "You're being made redundant."

Got a story for you this morning.

'Cutting departments again.

'Fortunately, at that time,

'I was over 50 and I could draw my pension.'

"..silver bike."

It's been a hell of a commitment for you, hasn't it?

Yeah.

And has it been worth it all?

Yeah. Very much. Very, very much.

BOY SHOUTS

'Bruce goes to a private boarding school in Surrey.

'Bruce wants to be a missionary.'

I think the most important thing in the world is

everyone should know about God.

When you were seven, you wanted to be a missionary.

Have you any thoughts on it?

No, I don't want to be a missionary

because I just can't talk about it to people.

You know, I'm interested in it myself,

but I wouldn't be very good at it at all.

I am... about the only socialist in my village,

and I go into the pub... and, er...

..sort of expect to stand up and defend all socialist policies.

Sort of, "This is the village socialist?"

"No, village idiot. Sorry."

"You agree with all this immigration?"

So I stand up and defend it, and it's awfully hard work.

I think I'm going to give that up.

'At 21, he was in his last year at Oxford reading maths.'

..And by Eisenstein.

You can show that this is irreducible.

T cubed plus 70 squared plus 14 T plus seven equals...

I won't carry on with mathematics. I don't think I'll be a teacher.

Yes, sir.

'At 28, he was teaching - immigrant children in East London.'

And to here. 25.

25. Right, so if you think it costs you 25...

It's so different from your own education where you're teaching now.

Why?

I don't know whether I said,

"Right, I must do something which is

"against what I have been brought up to do" or whatever.

I don't know, I've just found something I find rewarding.

'At 35, Bruce is working in Bangladesh.'

So, is this your missionary dream come true?

Well, not exactly.

I'm a teacher now in London,

and I've had the opportunity to come here for a term.

And it just so happens the school I am in

has great links with this part of the world.

And, you know, I've come here to find out about the background

of many of the boys that I teach back in London.

CHORAL SINGING

'At 49,

'he's teaching at Saint Albans, a large boys' independent school.'

You've gotta get X on its own, so what's the first thing we do?

Multiply both sides by three. You don't multiply by three.

Divide by three, sorry. Divide by three. OK.

Tell me, then, what's exciting about teaching here for you?

There is a higher academic level to teach.

And then you can see pupils at a more developed level.

That flash of recognition and then engendering their love

of the subject that I had at their age.

So, you're in the lead, you see, because DSC Cabs...

Has it been a kind of compromise of political principles for you, this?

I just thought, "I don't think I can do this till I'm 60,

"and therefore, I'll have to do something else."

Do your old friends give you a hard time about what you've done?

They certainly do. They absolutely do.

They say, "Oh, you know, have we joined the Tory party,

"the golf club, the Masons?"

Erm...

"You're driving a much better car than you used to," and so on.

# Together

# Together. #

SINGING CONTINUES

I've now retired completely.

I start each day walking the dogs on the beach.

And then I do choir in the evening.

THEY SING

Oh, and on a Wednesday evening,

I tend to go to the lifeboat house to do some training.

You know, I feel lucky.

I'm enjoying life probably more than I have ever done.

I think what you want to do is live a good life

and just whatever helps you do that.

My heart's desire is to see my daddy,

who's 6,000 miles away.

There had been an estrangement that was difficult to overcome.

But, you know, he did say that he was proud of me

cos he saw me on 28 Up, I think, you know.

And he just said, "Oh, I'm very proud of what you're doing,"

and so on.

So, I discovered a photograph that he must have sent to me

when I was about seven or eight,

about the same age as the first programme, saying,

"This is a photograph of me so you don't forget what I look like,"

which is heartfelt, together with a poem.

I've had it framed with a picture of my dad.

So, erm...

Anyway, this is a poem. It was written in Christmas '64.

"To Bruce.

"You were a tiny infant once

"Near death in oxygen and cradle

"Your life was scarcely worth the price of one weak flickering candle

"Today, you're a steadfast boy Seeking and exploring

"Today, you bring undreamt of joy To a distant heart now aching

"May God ne'er give you Wealth unearned

"Nor give you love unbought

"God give you courage with wisdom learned

"To dare all things you ought

"As proud as any father was

"Since life since began

"I claim that All the world shall know

"My son, my Bruce, a man."

'Symon was brought up in a children's home,

'the only child of a single parent.'

They say, "Where's your father, then?

"You know, when your mum's out at work, where's your father?"

And I just tell 'em I ain't got one.

What effect has that had on you?

Well, I don't think it's had any effect on me cos...

..what you don't have, you don't miss, and...

When... You were illegitimate -

does this make you particularly nervous

of you having an illegitimate child?

I mean, does it colour your attitude to that

or what are your feelings about that?

It doesn't worry me in the least.

You know?

Well, we're living in different times.

I mean, 20 years ago...

..when I was born, you know, an illegitimate child, you know,

that's something that's only whispered about.

People, you know, feel strongly about it in those days,

but nowadays, it's...

..it's not a serious matter.

I was gonna be a film star, but...

..now I'm gonna be an electrical engineer,

which is more to reality, really.

'By 21, Symon was working in the freezer room

'of Walls Sausages in London.'

Do you never feel you should be doing better jobs than these?

Aren't you worth more than this?

No, I haven't, really.

I suppose I just like hard work, I don't know.

But, er...

It's never really sort of worried me.

I suppose it should, but it just hasn't.

'Since then, he has worked near Heathrow Airport, handling freight.'

Do you feel you could have done more with a career, with your work?

If I'd pushed myself at school,

probably, I could have done a lot better.

Does that give you pause for thought?

No. That means I was a lazy sod when I was younger.

MAN:Tell me, do you have any girlfriends?

Well, not many.

What do you think about girls?

Oh, not much.

'By 28, he had married Yvonne, and they had five children.'

What would you like to give your children that you never had?

They've got everything.

They've even got what I never had.

So... Which is what?

A father, innit? So, I mean, they've had everything.

'By 35, they were divorced.'

CHATTERING

'By the time he was 42, Symon had married Vienetta.

'Vienetta already had a daughter, Miriam.

'And she and Symon had a son, Daniel.'

What's the biggest influence Vienetta has on you?

I think really motivation

because before, I never really pushed myself.

She looks after me.

She doesn't just push me, she looks after me.

You know, she would never let anything be wrong for me.

She always makes sure that if I go down the road, I look all right.

If I go anywhere, I look all right, you know?

And I do the right thing.

And it makes me feel that

there's somebody out there that really, really wants me.

Obviously, when children come into foster care,

family and friends are involved as well,

and we have to ensure that the children are...

'By 49, Symon and Vienetta had decided to train as foster parents.'

And we always say to foster carers,

please do not cut the children's hair

without the permission of the parents.

'So, what's the toughest thing about being a foster parent?'

You're taking a chance, really, when you do it cos you don't...

You really don't know what you're getting.

One child had two knives in her hand

because she didn't want to stay in this country.

Two knives in her hands. She threatened you?

No, she was just a threat to herself.

Some of them will even go into independent care,

but then they can come back at any time.

Thank you so much for everything.

She's a bit emotional. I know.

'They ring you up and say,

' "Hello, Aunty, hello, Uncle. How are you?" '

They come and have Sunday dinner, come and visit us, which is good.

At least you know you've made a little difference

to that child or that person's life.

Were you looked after at some point?

My real mother died at birth, and my dad remarried,

and my mother made me the person I am today

cos she was always helping other young people.

And she used to always say to us, "Don't be jealous,

"cos you've got my love, but they've got no-one to love them."

You know?

CHATTERING, UPBEAT MUSIC

Well done.

'The social services sent us a report in,

'listing all the people that we looked after.'

And it came to about 130.

And we... we just couldn't believe that.

MUSIC PLAYS, CHATTERING

We had all sorts. Some from this country.

White kids from this country, Black kids from this country,

mixed race kids from this country.

We had kids from Africa, from the Caribbean,

from... Well, actually, all the way around the world

when I think about it.

# I love you more than my life. #

The police are involved sometimes

because of whatever trouble they've come from.

They say, "Would it be all right to bring somebody round?

"We know it's cheeky," and all this, but we normally say yes

cos you're not saying no to the police,

you're saying no to the child.

'What sort of life does your mother have?'

It always seems hard. I mean, she's always been nervous.

She has periods of depression.

It's made me very sort of protective towards her.

I feel I've got to help her all the time.

SYMON AGED 42:She died in 1990.

She had cancer,

and she didn't survive all the stuff that was doing to her.

Is that tough?

Yeah, for me, because there were so many things

I never actually said to my mum

that... I would have liked to say to her.

You know?

Just things that, you know, you think about afterwards,

it's too late because they're not there any more.

What sort of things? Well...

Just "I love you" every day, you know?

What colour are they? Gold.

'It's still in my head now.

'I should have asked, firstly, who is my dad?

'What did he do?'

Where did he come from?

I... can't remember who told me he was Nigerian.

It might have been my mum, but I don't know that he was Nigerian.

So I know nothing about the man. I never saw him.

And...

that's a lot of big noughts...

..and I...

SIGHS

I shouldn't have worried about upsetting people.

I should have just asked the question.

That's what I think now.

At the time, I didn't wanna upset anyone.

And I didn't know who to ask so I didn't.

But now I wish to hell I had.

Yeah.

Tell me, do you have any boyfriends, Suzy?

Erm... Yes.

Tell me about him.

Well, he lives up in Scotland, and he's... I think he's 13.

Well, once Carolyn Tedford said she was... she loved me.

What do you think about that?

And I... And I'm going to marry... marry her when I grow up.

I hate her, she's always getting bad-tempered and cross with me.

Is she? Yeah, she says,

"Neil Hughes, move your desk forward."

Well, I don't know what sort of boy, but I think one that...

So...

That's not got a lot of money but is... has got some money.

Not a lot.

But when boys go round with girls,

they don't pay attention to what they're doing.

My grandmother had an accident

because a boyfriend was kissing his girlfriend in the street.

When I get married, I'd like to have two children.

Would you like to have a nanny to look after them

or do you want to look after them?

No, I want a nanny to look after them.

My girlfriend... is in Africa, and I won't...

I don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again.

If we did all love Jeffrey, and we all want to marry him...

Yeah! ..I think I know

the one that he likes best,

and that's her.

But Susan most of all likes Lesley.

She told me before. Do I?

She said. She keeps changing her mind, though.

Yeah. I don't know which one, really.

So, do you think you knew enough men or knew enough about men

to make a decision at this fairly young age to get married?

The two of you who are married

and the one of you who is looking for a husband?

Oh, don't say that! I'm not out looking for a husband.

But you would like to be married?

Wouldn't everybody? What a ridiculous question!

I'm not looking for someone to get married...

Am I looking for someone?

No, I'm not looking for someone to get married, so.

Are you putting an advert in the paper, "Husband desperately needed."

Yeah, I'm not desperate. "Please help.

"I'm desperate, I'm desperate." I mean...

No, I think when Sue finds the right person,

then that's it.

I mean, it takes a while.

No, it just means a different thing to me.

I've still got my ideals about marriage.

I don't know what it's all about, obviously.

So I've still got pictures of cosy evenings indoors...

OVERLAPPING DIALOGUE Yeah, I mean...

Cosy evenings indoors with central heating.

Yeah. Or lack of it.

I've got a lot to learn about...

'Sue was 24 when she married Billy, and they had two children.'

60.

To get married young, there must be things that you miss.

You must miss that crucial stage of being yourself.

Because the minute you get married, you're no longer a single being.

You're a partnership, and that should be the idea behind it.

'By the time Sue was 35, she was divorced.'

I've never sat down and thought, "Well, what was it?

"Was it this, was it that?" I just knew it wasn't working.

I'm with someone now, which is nice. It feels right.

But it's early days yet.

# Long ago

# And oh, so far away

# I fell in love with you

# Before the second show. #

'She brought Glen along to watch her sing.'

# It sounds so sweet

# But you're not really here... #

We've been together now over 20 years.

Still not married. Never say never.

But no plans.

# Don't you remember

# You told me you loved me, baby?

# Said you'd be coming Back this way again, baby

# Baby, baby, baby, baby Oh, baby

# I love you

# I really do. #

Glen has decided that...

he's fed up being on the longest engagement of all time,

so he asked me to marry him on the beach in Goa.

"Will you marry me?" in the sand and bought me a ring.

Another ring!

Two engagement rings I've got now.

And, yeah, so it was very, very romantic, very lovely.

Couldn't have wanted a better wedding, really.

# What to say... #

When I was singing on the karaoke, when I'd just got with Glen

and he's standing at the bar,

and Michael's voice come over the camera, and he said...

'She brought Glen along to watch her sing.'

And Glen's looking like that, all proud.

He absolutely hates it.

# Don't you remember

# You told me you love me, baby? #

'Sue had a series of office jobs.

'She now helps run the MA courses

'in the legal faculty of the University of London.'

Realistically, this is the points you really do have to consider.

You can't do two modules that are taught at the same time, obviously.

'And then I retired very recently.'

And here I am now at home,

trying to find myself something new to do.

It's really quite hard.

I didn't think retirement would be this hard,

but I find it quite...

I don't know, I just feel a bit lost sometimes, you know?

So I need to find myself a new direction or something.

It's a nice one, isn't it?

'After the wedding, we lost Dad.'

The first time we seen him, innit?

'Two years later, Boxing Day, we lost my mum.'

So, yeah, it's been a tough...

It's been a roller coaster, this seven years.

So most seven-year periods, you think, "What have I done?"

You know, I've done nothing in the last seven years.

"What on Earth am I gonna talk about?"

But this seven years, wow.

It's been... It's been really busy and really highs and lows.

I mean, I suppose my life,

compared to a lot of people, has been really quite predictable.

When I was a child, you saw me saying

I was gonna go to this school and that university.

And that all happened.

When I leave this school, I go to Charterhouse.

And after that...

Trinity Hall, Cambridge.

I made several blunders on 7 Up.

For instance,

I said I was going to Trinity Hall instead of Trinity College.

They didn't like that too much, nor did my father.

And I've had a fairly conventional career.

I haven't had a lot, you know,

I haven't had a lot of disappointments or setbacks.

I'd like to be a solicitor and also fairly successful.

'Andrew is a solicitor, working for a large firm in the city.'

What qualities do you think it needs to be successful?

Well, you have to have a legal ability in my business, obviously,

and you have to have a sort of bedside manner

as far as your clients are concerned.

I was an in-house lawyer for an industrial gases company.

And I retired since our last film.

It took me quite a while to get used to being retired.

I did miss the sort of camaraderie of being with other people.

But after a while, I got used to it.

And obviously, it lets us do things that we couldn't do

for the 40 years I was working.

What do you think about girlfriends at your age?

Tell me what you think about girlfriends.

I've got one, but I don't think much of her.

The girls never, never, never do what the boys want them.

They always start playing with dolls

when the boys want to play rough and tumble with them.

It's quite true.

I don't think I financially come from the same background.

Hm.

Andrew didn't go for a haughty deb. He went for a good Yorkshire lass.

But I mean, obviously, he knew what he wanted.

Looking back, I would have liked to have spent a bit more time

with the family, you know,

rather than giving so much priority to work.

When you're young and trying to make your career,

it all seems terribly important to you

to spend that extra few hours at the office.

But in the scheme of things, it probably would have been better

to, you know, go to the school play or the sports day or whatever.

I think all the success in the world in your career...

is unimportant compared to, you know,

having a close and loving family, really... which I hope we have.

In this job, we must always be prepared to take risks.

# HEAVY METAL

Woah!

We are the face that people look to for reassurance.

Think there's a way of doing this without looking ridiculous?

Time to see what you're made of.

Watch every episode now on STV Player.

'In the headmistress's study of a fashionable school for girls,

'we met Suzy.'

I'm down for Heathfield and Southover Manor.

And then maybe I may...

I may want to go to a university, but I don't know which one yet.

'Suzy lives in Scotland on her father's 4,000-acre estate.'

There's always something to do here.

I mean, I'm never, ever bored.

What sort of things do you do?

Erm...

Ride, swim,

play tennis.

Ping pong.

And I might play croquet.

Anything like that.

What about the social life? What's that?

What, in Perthshire? Yeah.

Hm, it's quite fun.

There are lots of things going on.

I think your dog's got a rabbit.

What are you gonna do?

Do you wanna try and save it? Max! Bring it here.

Oh, disgusting dog!

That's the second one you've given, the second week.

Does that worry you? No, not at all.

Why doesn't it worry you that things should have to be killed?

I suppose I've been brought up to it.

'I left school when I was 16, went to Paris.

'Ah... Went to secretarial college and got a job.'

What made you decide to leave school and go to Paris?

I just wasn't interested in school and just wanted to get away.

I mean, your parents split up

soon after you were 14. Mm-hm.

Has that... What sort of influence, effect, did that have on you?

Well, I was the only child

going through their parents splitting up aged 14.

What a very vulnerable age.

And it does... And it does cut you up.

But... you know, you get over it.

There's no point...

There's no point in them staying together for me

because it was worse, I mean, the rows,

and I don't sort of sit down and think, you know, analyse marriage.

It's not something I've had to come up and think about

or that I was gonna get married,

and I've got no desire to at the moment.

I think 20's far too young.

When I last saw you at 21, you were nervous.

You were chain-smoking, you were uptight.

And now you seem happy.

What's happened to you over these last seven years?

I suppose Rupert.

I'll give you some credit. Thank you.

I'm now chain-smoking.

I suppose 22 is considered quite young.

I felt it was the right time.

I don't see what I would have gained by waiting another three years.

Mummy? Yeah?

Laura wants you. 'Very little has changed.

'My life probably is very much the same as it was then.

'I've had another baby.

'We've moved house, and that's about all.

'I hope by Rupert and I giving them a close family unit,

'that they'll keep their heads and won't feel

'that they're slightly lost like I did.

'Where I wasted time was in my middle-late teens,

'and I think at that stage, I didn't care.'

I just let those years go, really, I drifted.

The more she went through the stages, the bigger the space became.

But the actual grief... Doesn't go away.

Doesn't actually go away, ever.

But just...

'I got into bereavement counselling about four years ago.

It's an extraordinary experience when you meet someone

who is suffering terribly... and over the months,

you see them move on.

You see them get their life back together again.

That's gonna be a foul.

It's gone right over! Another one.

Maybe now is...

the first time that I actually feel happy within my own skin.

It's taken me a long time... to do it.

I threw away my education, and I've always regretted that.

But you can't turn the clock back.

Life throws some curveballs sometimes,

and you have to negotiate your way through as best you can.

Er... Yeah.

I mean, my life's been...

Obviously, I've had some difficult times, some upsetting times.

But... you learn to grow with them.

I've had a very privileged life compared to some people.

I've never really had to struggle to make my way.

But I don't think I've taken for granted what I've had either.

This may sound very arrogant, but you can't...

I can't change what I was born into.

'We chose two boys from a children's home in Middlesex.

'Paul left the children's home when he was eight.'

Well, I don't... I don't like, erm...

the big boys hitting us

and the prefects sending us out, out for nothing.

'He went to Australia to start a new life.'

What do you remember of England?

It seemed to be raining all the time.

I wouldn't stake my life on it,

but... cos I can't remember very much.

I find it hard to express emotion most of the time,

although I'm getting on top of that.

More now, you know?

I mean, just a simple thing to say to sort of Susan,

you know, "I love you" or something like that.

Things have fallen into line there now for me.

Everything's started to come good.

I've started to enjoy life.

And I've started to think,

"Well, you know, I'm not a no hoper."

Because really, I think that's what I've always thought about myself.

I know I didn't have any confidence in myself.

What was it that you fell in love with? What is it about him?

His helplessness, I suppose.

It was the motherly instinct in me to pick him up and cuddle him.

And he's also very good-looking, I think.

But he doesn't agree with me.

And in the summer, he's got this cute little bum in shorts.

Would you like to get married, Paul?

I don't like 'em.

Say, you had a wife, they...

Say you had to eat what they cooked you

and say, I don't like greens,

well, I don't, and say she said,

"You have to eat what you get give."

So I don't like greens,

say she gives me greens, and that's it.

He...

I suppose it's really made me go to jelly inside,

you know, to see him like that.

Is confidence still an issue with you?

Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately. I've learned to live with it.

Sort of accept it.

But I had never really got on top of it fully,

which is... It really annoys me.

I don't know what to do about it, though.

I've never been told properly ever.

But the whole reason why I was at the boarding school

is because there was a fairly messy divorce case happening.

My dad ended up with custody of us, and we moved away,

and it was just my dad and then my stepmother and my brother.

I asked my dad when I was quite young about family,

and he said, "Your family begins and ends with me."

I didn't have any contact with my mother until I was 21.

And she wrote me a letter.

So, she came out and visited, and at the airport,

I could have easily walked past her and not even known her.

It used to be.

Really? Yeah.

'At 21, we took Paul and Symon round the buildings

'which were once the children's home.'

I remember this part, but I remember when they were cleaner.

Them are the two offices. Yeah. Doctors and the nurses.

Are the refs all ex-players or what?

No, some of 'em are trained for it, like, you know.

One thing the show did is because we had to come back here a few times,

the show brought my mother and I back together.

Through that, we also met some of her side of the family.

They were just such lovely people.

It was sad that I didn't grow up knowing them.

I definitely believe that the family's 100% the main thing.

It doesn't matter what you earn, what you do,

you need a good family nucleus.

You need it for yourself.

You need it for your life to make your life whole.

Children are a wonderful part of that.

And the grandchildren only add to that.

My dad, he passed away about ten years ago.

He brought us up.

He... He was a good man.

He did the best... He did the best he could.

As far as I'm concerned, he did a good job.

I'm the only... child in the village, except for my baby brother.

'At seven, Nick, a farmer's son,

'was at a one-room village school in the Yorkshire Dales.'

I've been to Leeds a couple of times.

I haven't been to Manchester.

Do you want to take up farming? No.

I'm not interested in it.

I mean, I'm not... And I said I was interested in physics and chemistry.

Well, I'm not gonna do that here.

When I grow up, I'd like to find out all about the moon and all that.

Get a nice picture.

'At 21, he was reading Physics at Oxford.'

Be nice to get this thing to work.

So, what career are you gonna pursue?

It depends whether I'll be good enough

to do what I want to really do.

The gas in these experiments is at a temperature

comparable with that of the sun, whereas in a power reactor,

it would be maybe ten times the temperature of the sun.

'At 28, he had moved to America

'and was doing nuclear research at the University of Wisconsin.'

Reaction gives off energy and produces the power

that would be turned into electrical energy.

When I was 13, I got hold of a book

which said that we were really in trouble cos of pollution.

And because of this, I went into this nuclear fusion thing.

I was on a mission, you know,

I was to get extremely cheap, clean, plentiful electricity.

So, nuclear fusion looked like it was gonna do that.

But even then, they were saying it's 20 years away.

'Over the years, Nick's research hit trouble,

'and by 49, he's had to abandon it.'

Was there a moment when you realised that

all you'd been doing wasn't gonna work out?

I think it was... more gradual.

I didn't want to admit it for quite a while.

I mean, I really believed in it. It was a huge let-down.

Do you have a girlfriend?

I don't want to answer that.

I don't answer those kind of questions.

The best answer would be to say that I don't answer questions like that.

But, I mean, you know, it was what I said when I was seven,

and it's still the most sensible.

But, I mean, what about them?

Nick was only 17 when I first met him,

and I knew he was a nice person.

I find him very attractive.

And... he uses his intelligence in his relationship with me,

which is very important.

A lot of people can be very bright.

'Nick and Jackie met when they were students at Oxford.'

What about you, Nick? Why did you marry Jackie?

Because she's... I find her attractive.

She's bright and independent, and...

I mean, if you'd been somebody who... had had fixed ideas

of a woman's role in marriage

that meant... dinner on the table at six every evening...

Ah, didn't I tell you about that?

The moment of pure, unadulterated joy in my life

was when my son was handed to me when he was born.

I have never felt so optimistic,

so just purely... unworried about anything as that,

that... It was just the strange... It was just... Phew!

So that's....

Did that last forever?

Well, no, I mean, no, no, no, it didn't.

'By 42, they were divorced.'

Well, it was incredibly hard.

Erm...

What I concluded, it was like a death.

So... what about yourself? What about the future for you?

Well, I mean... as you can see, I have lost...

I lost 60lb in the last year,

I have... I am seriously ill.

I have a cancer in my throat.

And I don't know what the prognosis,

you know, I don't know what's going to happen.

So I'm not really focussed on the long-term future.

I'm focussed on fairly short-term futures at the moment.

I'm just keeping going and not asking too many questions

about... the long term.

BALLOONS POPPING, CHILDREN SQUEALING

'And what about the other children? Where are they now?'

What do you want out of life?

The satisfaction of knowing that

I've left some sort of imprint,

rather than just lived out my life.

I am still quite lonely at times,

but this is a common characteristic of our age.

I was really angry.

You wouldn't have asked some of the other people

in this programme that question.

You would never have gone near them with it.

But you asked me, and you asked Sue, and you asked Lynn.

So you tell me why you asked us and you wouldn't have asked the others?

SINGING

There is an issue over TV and what it does to people.

That was my concern with Michael and why I didn't engage,

certainly after 28, cos I felt he had cast everyone.

Every time I talk about Michael, I get quite emotional.

He was like a... diamond...

at the jewellers that you hold in your hand

with this documentary and say, "That was the man that did it."

They discovered that I got these veins here that shouldn't be there.

In your brain? Mm-hm.

I had no idea that I was going to be this ill,

and I had no idea I was gonna keep living.

But, yes, I think it's a surprise to my doctors that I'm still around.

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