Original subtitles

[♪ "What More Can I Say" by Jay-Z playing]

♪ Fuck this, man ♪

- [both laughing] - ♪ What more can I say? ♪

So, a lot of times in those days, we would--

when I first was recording,

we had a thing called free play where I would just go in.

I had so many lyrics and so many songs in my head

that I would flush through them.

- You have one track. - Yeah.

And then I'll just say a bunch of things on it

and be like, "Oh, this song actually works over this."

And everybody would rush to the studio

'cause it's like, they hadn't heard these-- these songs.

So like, Biggs, and Dame, and all them would run in the studio

and be like, "Yo, free play is happening."

And then, like, I'd just go in the booth

and I would just go through it, and the beat always stopped

- at some point. - Yeah.

- And I always just kept-- - But you keep going.

- So, that inspired this idea. - That's great.

This wasn't a real time it happened.

That inspired the idea to do that.

- Yeah. - And, um...

so The Black Album, there was so--

I mean, like, obvious misses.

Encore was supposed to be the first single.

- [laughing] - Now, I don't know

how I missed Encore not being the first single.

- Yeah. - And how is this not the last song

- on the album? - Yeah.

It's the last album, not Change Clothes.

Change Clothes was the first single.

This should have been, "Encore, do you want more?"

I almost went to radio with Encore,

and I remember Kevin Liles saying like,

"Man, the album's incredible. I can't believe it.

"Like, the Encore one is the only one

that I'm on the fence about."

And I typically never listen to that, you know.

- Um, but I trust him as well. - Yeah, yeah.

Then the room was too, like Guru,

which he's always with me.

- Yeah. - He wasn't all the way with Encore.

It was like, it was enough people in the room

that wasn't all the way with Encore...

- Mm-hmm. - ...that it didn't happen.

I was sending that song to, like, Flex.

- He's like the local DJ at my Hot97. - Yeah, yeah.

And I had PSA on one CD and Encore on another one,

and I was gonna send him those two to play.

And I took the Encore back and just gave him PSA.

[Rick Rubin] Mm.

And that's how Change Clothes ended up being the first single.

Yeah, that idea of what's a single, what's not a single.

Nobody really knows.

And all you can really do is follow your gut...

- Yeah. - ...'cause that's all you-- that's all there is.

I liked that streaming kinda like eliminated that.

Obviously, people can do what they want and still make singles,

but it's not necessary, 'cause streaming,

people are just gonna pick the singles.

- Absolutely. - It's not dictated by radio

or what video you shoot.

You know, it's always been like that,

but because you was so-- had a focus track...

- Yeah. - ...you-- even when people liked this other song...

the masses didn't embrace it until you...

presented it in-- as a single or as a focus track.

But now, with streaming, people just take the songs

and, like, you know, a song that...

you know, with no hook or something like that,

ends up being number one on the Hot 100,

- simply because people played it a lot because they like it. - Yeah, people like it.

- I love that part of streaming. - Yeah.

I love that it-- you know.

And it also unveiled how popular rap was.

Like, we knew that this was the dominant genre

- for 20 years now, 25 years. - Mm-hmm.

But the world didn't know because the gatekeepers at...

you know, big stations, Z100 or MTV,

they really controlled what was being played.

Almost like when MTV didn't play, like, Black music.

- Mm-hmm. - And, like, I remember David Bowie being on there like,

- "What the fuck are y'all doing?" - Mm-hmm, yeah.

We knew Michael Jackson and all that was popular,

but because it wasn't getting played on these platforms,

- the world didn't know. - Mm-hmm.

And I felt like streaming opened that up for, um, for hip-hop.

It was like the last thing. It was like, okay, it's over.

- Now, the cat's really out the bag. - Yeah.

I feel like now, even though hip-hop

is as popular as it is...

there's still a lack of understanding about it.

- I agree. - I don't know

that people know how to really listen to hip-hop.

- Yeah. - It's so dense with information.

- Mm-hmm. - And a lot of people

- just kinda hear this-- the hook in the beat. - They hear the music.

Whatever melodic thing catches you in the beat.

- Yeah. - Yeah, and the lyrics are last.

When you started performing, did you always perform with a DJ?

- Yeah. - When did it switch

from a DJ to a band?

Unplugged.

- And from then on. - Yeah.

I never performed without a band after that.

- Tell me the change. - It brought the songs to life.

- It was so lush-- - The power of the band on stage.

Yeah, the instrumentation.

And, you know, I-- I typically choose

musical tracks, even from the beginning.

It wasn't typical to choose the tracks I was choosing,

but I chose them because this is the music

I grew up on with my mom.

- Yeah. - This is the music

that was amazing to me and beautiful to me.

I've always chosen, like--

the B.I.G.-- the Brooklyn's Finest song,

is just-- I used to ride around with that

in my car all the time, Ohio Player.

♪ Oh, baby, no-o-o ♪

That original song is called Ecstasy.

And I would play that all the time.

And Dame was in the car with me.

He was like, "This guy is playing this song all the time."

Takes it to Clark and says, "Yo, chop this up.

- He likes this." - Yeah.

[♪ "Brooklyn's Finest" feat. The Notorious B.I.G. playing]

[Jay-Z] This song had a five-bar loop.

He couldn't get it back on the one,

so we had to throw away a bar.

So when he goes,

"Time to separate the pros from the cons..."

[mumbling indistinctly]

"...the butter-soft shit from the leather on the Fonz..."

[continues mumbling indistinctly]

"Brook-Nam, sipping on."

We had to throw that away so he could get back on the one.

So, we always had like an extra bar,

and we had these connectors.

And I wrote the connectors for B.I.G.,

'cause B.I.G. didn't do his verse that night.

So, when it goes, "What's your name?

Who shot you?", that was me.

I was like, "What's your name? Who shot you?",

- so he can know... - When to come in.

Yeah, because we would be offbeat.

- Yeah. - And if we didn't have those things.

So, it was a problem-solve,

that it was the first time I had to...

as far as like, uh, creating song structure,

'cause I was rapping. Like I told you, this--

- Yeah. - This album, I was pretty much rapping.

There's no real hooks. Like, Mary did a hook.

- Mm-hmm. - Mecca did another hook.

Can I Live is just me saying, "Can I live?"

You know, it was no-- no-- no songwriting

in-- in terms of, like, you know,

creating a-- a complete song.

Even on this, I left-- we left the studio.

Me and B.I.G. was like, "Clark, figure it out.

You know, we're done." And that's why Clark

- is rapping on this hook. - How long before this

did you meet B.I.G.?

I met him, but this night was when we clicked.

We left this-- this session

and went to see, like, uh, Kings of Comedy.

And there was like a-- you know, whole lineup,

Steve Harvey, Cedric the Entertainer.

There was two more other guys. I forget who was on there.

Anyway, the Kings of Comedy, and we-- we never--

we talked every day until he was-- till he passed.

And every Friday or Saturday, we would go eat together,

and it was like, you know, it was just like a--

a fast, you know, relationship.

It's strange that, you know, this was the record

that made Tupac and I have a little bit of problem,

just 'cause him and B.I.G.,

and I was next to B.I.G. and thing.

But on this song where he ends it,

"I'm warning ya," the next thing he said,

"I'm warning ya," was, "most hated in California."

I was like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

We taking that out. I don't wanna be a part of that.

But if you listen to the song, it ends weird,

'cause he goes, "I'm warning ya," And then the beat goes...

[vocalizing]

It's space.

'Cause he's like, most-- "I'm warning ya,

most hated in California." Yeah.

Tell me from your perspective

that East Coast, West Coast beef.

- Yeah. - When did it become apparent,

and what was the feeling?

These two guys were having their disagreement,

and then an entire coast jumped in.

It felt like, you know, it was super dangerous, it felt like--

Were-- were they not fans of each other?

- They were really close friends. - It seems like, right?

- No, they were really close friends. - Explain it to me.

- They were close. - I don't-- that's why I don't understand it.

Here's my understanding of it, right?

- Yeah. - 'Cause this predates me,

the-- their relationship.

Is...

Biggie and Tupac used to hang out.

Tupac is getting really popular now.

He-- he was gone. He's blowing up.

- He's shooting movies and all that. - Right.

And now, a certain element is coming around him.

And B.I.G. tells Tupac,

"Yo, you gotta watch those guys. I know those guys.

They're not good guys," bah, bah, bah.

Tupac goes and tells the guys.

So now, they-- the guys are mad at Biggie,

and Biggie's, you know, moving around clubs

and he don't wanna go-- I didn't know this at the time.

One time, we pulled up at the club

and there was a guy outside, and he was like,

"I ain't going in 'cause what-you-call-him's there."

And I'm like, "What?"

Me and Tata was in the car. We going in.

- Yeah. - Now, it makes sense to me

why he didn't go in, because he had problems

with these guys who were really serious guys in the city,

because he had told Tupac, stop hanging with 'em,

because something's gonna happen.

And, um-- And as we fast forward...

- those were the guys... - [both] Something happened.

And instead of-- I don't know what--

I don't know what was going on with Tupac at the time.

I don't know if it was embarrassment,

or what he felt.

He knew that Biggie told him...

- Yeah. - ...and warned about these guys.

He knew it was these guys, and he blamed Biggie.

Which is why Biggie never fueled the fla-- flame

to retaliate and make songs.

And, um, but he did make Who Shot Ya.

- Mm-hmm. - Which, you know, as-- as incredible as it is...

- Yeah. - ...I'm sure that added flame to fire.

- Yeah. - So, instead of saying,

"This guy warned me about these guys,"

he turned it into a thing like, "This supposed to be your city.

How this could happen to me in your city?"

And B.I.G. is a great rapper and, you know,

he-- he's a good guy, but he-- he didn't--

he was the king of New York, musically.

- Yes. - We know no one controls New York City.

It's too many bad guys. Everybody's tough.

And the tougher you are, the more you be-- the target

to make another guy say, "I'm gonna try him

because I wanna be the next guy."

There's no way Biggie can control

these guys that he talking about.

- Yeah. - And he knows that.

But that was the-- that was the way he painted it,

that Biggie didn't tell him.

And then from there, it just went.

It went. It took on a life of its own,

and then magazines start picking it up...

- I know. - ...and it-- it became this thing

where everybody was involved.

People that had nothing to do with it became involved.

And did you ever feel when you went to the West Coast

any feeling of like...

I didn't like going there for a long time.

- Yeah. - Even after B.I.G. passed, I was like--

- It's strange that I live there now. - Felt like enemy territory.

- Yeah, it felt like-- - It's amazing that that could happen.

- Yeah. - Considering everyone

- loves this form so much. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - It's an odd disconnect.

And especially in the beginning, it was a--

and I guess still now, it's just part of it

'cause that's the neighborhoods we come to.

There's a street element in hip-hop.

Always this underly-- underlying,

because we're coming out of these neighborhoods fresh,

and it ain't like you-- you just become

someone new tomorrow, right?

You got friends and people that's around.

You was in the street yesterday.

- Mm-hmm. - With your whole full crew

and doing whatever you need to do to protect your block,

and having wars,

- and spinning a block. - Yeah.

- You know what I mean? - So, it's-- it's a attitude

in life that bleeds over

- into the heart-- art world. - Exactly, yeah.

And the leader has to be the one to be like, "Yo...

we doing something else right now. Chill out."

- Yeah. - You know, you always putting out fires.

You know, I spent a lot of those early years--

'Cause remember, I was-- was like 50 of us

when-- when we first started.

You know, and it was like guarantee there gonna be a fight

- if we went somewhere. - Yeah.

Or, you know, fighting, or bottle, or stabbing.

It was 100% gonna happen, till it was happening so much

like, wait a minute, I don't want this.

I'm going over here. This is business.

- Yeah. - We taking care of business,

we go home and, you know.

There's another aspect to this in addition to the--

the actual beef.

There's a perception from the outside

which is completely misunderstood.

Run-DMC played at the Long Beach Arena

- and there was a gang fight. - Mm-hmm.

And somebody got shot at the-- at the arena.

And I remember talking to someone in the music business

after that happened who said...

"Why did Run-DMC, uh, provoke that riot

at the-- at their show?"

Like, what are you talking about?

- Yeah, right, yeah. - That-- that has nothing to do

- with what happened. - Exactly. Yeah.

It's just like a misunderstanding

- from the outside. - Yeah, right.

Nothing to do with the show,

nothing to do with the music...

- No. - ...being, you know, whatever they was saying

- in them early days. - Yeah.

- Inciting riots, it was just-- - Yeah, inciting a riot, like...

No, I haven't seen you.

You from a different neighborhood, and I see you here

and we got a problem. Let's go.

The lack of understanding.

- You mentioned journalists, like... - Yeah, mm-hmm.

The perception that the spin gets put on it by journalists...

- Mm-hmm. - ...hyping it up,

that's wrong. And then...

- Yeah. - ...it's wrong and amplified.

Right.

It's just like, uh, you know, pouring gasoline on a fire.

And everyone had to take responsibility for that, too.

You gotta know when certain things

is not to be sensationalized.

And, you know, the participants have to take responsibility too,

'cause it's like, the entourages, like,

you know, they wanna prove to Biggie and Pac.

They wanna prove to them.

They wanna earn they stay, you know what I mean?

Yeah, tell me more about the relationship with Biggie.

Just, what was he like? What'd you like about him?

- What'd you guys connect over? - Yeah, well, Biggie was--

Biggie's, um, anytime I think of B.I.G.,

I just think his humor, first thing.

A relatable, everyday guy,

just super funny, hilarious.

Like, we spent 85% of the time just laughing.

- Just laughing, like super-- - Great.

- On the floor crying in tears. - Best.

Laughing, like, in pain. "Yo!"

And obviously, his voice.

His voice is incredible.

Yeah, just like where it came from and just like--

Yeah, and the way he pronounced words.

- Yeah. - Just so cool.

And he'd almost, like, talk in,

where like, "You know what I'm saying?

Yo, playboy." And it was almost like, went in.

- Like-- like, it-- - Yeah.

Like, his words almost went...

went inward in a strange way.

It was like-- almost like a muffle.

- Mm-hmm. - And we were-- we were like,

in New York City, that was it.

He was big, but on the streets, I was me.

So, we had that whole thing covered.

And I remember we walking to a parking lot one day,

get our cars, we were coming from a studio.

And he was like, um...

"No, we should just move to Atlanta and, like,

"get, like-- like, you know,

two big houses next to each other."

And... and in my mind, I'm like...

- "What?" - [laughing]

We're the hottest guys in New York City.

New York. Like, we've made it.

Like, we've reached the pinnacle of New York.

Why we wanna move to Atlanta?

And just think about Atlanta today and the scene today.

I'm like, that was super wise.

It was-- he had all these things, like, outside of music

that he was thinking about and talking about.

[♪ "I Love the Dough" by The Notorious B.I.G. playing]

Don't forget the vinyl. [chuckles]

Shit.

♪ I love the dough, ay ♪

♪ I love the dough more than you know ♪

♪ Gonna let it show ♪

[♪ music stops abruptly]

What do you remember about that night?

Oh, yeah, we finished that one night in Daddy's house.

I remember Puff come and I started doing my verses.

And Puff's like, "What you doing? He trying to kill you."

[chuckles] Puff was trying to, like,

spark the competition between us.

- Yeah. - You know, he's like, "He trying to kill you."

- [laughing] - Like, "Y-You-- yo, you better go ahead."

And it was just fun, we just was having fun.

It was just almost like a regular night for us.

We just hanging out and just creating music.

Did you both come to the studio with no lyrics?

- This-- this gets written... - No lyrics. Yeah, this is all done--

This might-- this happens in one night.

Yeah, that's dead all-- I didn't hear the music

till he just had, like, "I wanna do a song."

And we just-- he played this

and it was like, alright, let's go.

And then, you both, like, writing at the same time?

Yeah, I think I finished my verses first.

- Yeah. - 'Cause that's when Puff was coming in here,

and then B.I.G. was just like, letting the music loop.

And he was just sitting in the back.

This was the first time I saw they-- they had a week thing

called Branson in New York. It was very super popular.

Like, "Yo, me and Branson-- took thing-- things to Branson."

You'll hear it in a lot of Lox raps and Biggie raps.

They used to be the king of Branson.

You go to Branson, you get the weed, he'd give you candy.

They would take a box of Philly blunts

and roll every single one of them.

And it'd just be like a box of blunts just ready to go.

And I remember he was in the back and he was--

he was so high and he was, like, leaning back.

And I was like, "How high is you trying to get?"

And he says...

Like that. [laughing]

[Rick] Wow.

- Incredible. - Yeah, it was great.

There's Cristal mentioned in this song.

It was almost-- all those little markers that we were trying--

like hip-hop, like trying to separate yourself.

Like, "I know the new sneakers. I got the new thing.

Oh, y'all rocking platinum jewelry?"

Nowadays, it's more of an adoption.

Like, if someone got something, now everybody wants to get it.

In those days it was like, yeah, we all rock the same uniform,

but if you got the hat, I'm getting the visor.

You know, if y'all are rocking gold, I'm rocking platinum.

- You don't wanna be the same. - It was all about the gift of discovery,

and was trying to elevate.

So, that line was about, okay,

- y'all watching Tyson fight. - Yeah.

- You know, we at the Tyson fight. - I see.

And, you know, you see how cheap those tickets was.

Those tickets now like 20,000.

- Yeah, yeah. - 15,000, whatever.

It was like I'm in the 1,500 seat.

- Yeah, 'cause that's what it was then. - That's what it was.

- Yeah. - I'm in the 1,500 seats watching Tyson.

"Same night, same fight, but one of us cats ain't playing right."

Right, 'cause we all talking about we're players and we on this thing.

- I see. - I'm at the fight.

- I see. - People-- on the surface, it's like,

"Oh, he just talking about flashing and money and thing."

But if you take a second and listen.

Like you were saying, people don't really listen.

If you listen, I always gave you the reason.

And I tell you, people, "Place yourself in the shoes

of two felons and tell me you won't ball every--"

'cause we might not be here tomorrow.

"And tell me you won't ball every chance you get

at any chance you hit."

"Hit" meaning kill.

"We live for the moment. Makes sense, don't it?

Make dollars." And I go back to it.

"Cats pop bottles..." [mumbling indistinctly]

In the middle, there's almost like a commercial break.

I-- I interrupt all the balling and flashy shit to say,

"Now, listen, pockets stay full.

Skip the bull 'cause we matadors."

- It was like, you know, a little rap line. - Skip the bull.

"Skip the bull 'cause we matadors."

"Snatch the P89s--" was a type of gun--

"that we pack in the drawers and we clap the doors

"of your Acuras.

Make you all dance hold a hammer to yours."

Another little-- you know, hammer to dance.

"Make you all dance, hold a hammer to yours.

"Jig and B.I.G. rock ice, no cracks in floors.

"Everybody got a part to play, back to yours.

"Run up in your crib now, crack your doors.

"Watch the real players live. It's a habit to floss.

"Play the charts like The Beatles, y'all adapt the loss.

"Toast Cristal on behalf of y'all.

"Too bad for y'all, ain't too many as bad as yours truly.

Do we? We laugh at y'all little bast--"

You know, the MC bravado braggadocious type of shit.

So, tell me the story of Cristal because there was a time

- you stopped-- you stopped mentioning Cristal. - Yeah.

So, we had discovered Cristal pretty early.

And I remember drink-- like, literally drinking

Cristal in the club, and people were like,

"What are you drinking? Is that beer?"

Then the whole of hip-hop,

pretty much Cristal became the drink of-- of choice.

They asked the guy-- I forget his position,

if he was like the president, or whatever his position was.

They asked him how did he feel about...

hip-hop's affinity for this luxury brand.

And he said something like,

"I can't stop them from drinking it."

It was-- It was--

I mean, all he had to do

was just say, "Thank you."

- Of course. - "We welcome anybody who loves our brand."

- Like any-- - You took it from this exclusive brand...

- Mm-hmm. - ...that no one even knew about...

- Right. - ...to making it the hottest drink

- in the hip-hop world. - Yes. He didn't want us--

almost like we were tainting his brand

by being associated with it.

Like it didn't make it luxury anymore

'cause we were drinking it.

That was the feeling.

- And I was like, "Fuck you." - Yeah.

You know, I had the club. I still have the club.

I had 40/40, took it out of all the clubs...

and just-- and that was it.

And once I made that statement, like, "I'm-- I don't--

we no longer drink Cristal," um, I was approached by a guy.

He had an idea for this champagne.

That's how Armand was born, Ace of Spade...

- Yeah. - ...which is what I call it, Ace of Spades.

It was born there. There was no liquid in it.

And it was-- and nothing, it was just this idea

and this beautiful gold bottle.

And we built this brand together.

- Amazing, the timing. - Yeah.

Yeah.

Have you had those experiences before

where just, like, the things line up

- at the right time? - All the time. Yeah, all the time.

It's really spooky. All the time, it happens.

I'm like, of course. [chuckles]

It got to-- it's beyond that point.

It's-- it's beyond the point of, "Wow, that really happened,"

- to, "Of course this happened," you know. - Yeah.

It seems like we could-- if we're open to it, it comes.

- That's right. - It comes.

Yeah.

And if you think it's not possible,

then it's not possible.

- That's right. Yeah. - Do you know, if you--

Once you realize it's possible...

- That's right. - ...and you're open to it,

- it's everywhere. - Like you say,

- you put your attention out there. - Yeah.

When you say it's not gonna happen, you shut down

- the possibility of it happening for yourself. - Yeah.

So, even when you say things like, you know,

the universe doesn't respond to negative,

uh, what's the word I'm looking for, like, energy,

like sparks of-- so if you say, "I don't wanna be like my dad.

I'm not gonna be like my dad. I'm not gonna be like my dad."

- You end up being exactly like your dad. - Yeah.

- Because the universe-- - It doesn't hear the "no."

- The negative. - Yeah.

As opposed to saying, "I wanna be like this."

Or, "I wanna be in my child's life,

"and I wanna be like this,

and I wanna be a father who's attentive."

Like, instead of saying...

setting your attentions to what you want to do,

you're saying what you don't want.

But-- and the universe only hears

- the negative. - When did you learn this?

[Jay-Z] Hm.

[sucking teeth]

I want to say around Black Album -ish, round...

'cause I was dealing with it a lot then.

I met my dad around Black Album.

It actually opened up a space for me

to, like, mature into the next.

And I obviously made some mistakes after that,

but it definitely opened up the idea of... of...

not running away from the feeling of...

rejection, or abandonment, and things like that, you know.

I would always, like, if I get into, like,

any sort of relationship,

never wanna, like, fully be vulnerable

because I don't-- I ain't never want to feel that feeling

that I've had since a kid.

But, you know, and as I've grown,

I've had so much more understanding of my dad

and who he was, and so much, um...

so much...

like, just relating to his pain and his struggle,

and, like, see him as a human being

- and not a dad and, like... - Yeah. Yeah.

...so much understanding of,

"Wow, that's what was going on for you."

You know, seeing it through your lens,

you know, it's like, this is a bad dad who left. Left.

How could you leave your kids and bah, bah, bah, bah.

But seeing it through his lens, it's way different.

He had a relationship with his-- with my mom.

You know, that-- that precedes us.

- That came before us. - Yeah.

So, that relationship was complicated.

And then, like, his life

and his personal life when he was gone.

Like for instance, you know, it was a couple times

he was supposed to pick me up, and he just never showed up.

So, imagine that hurt, right? And that feeling

of just, like, abandonment, and, like...

- He doesn't care. That's-- - He doesn't care.

That's the story you tell yourself.

So, you tell yourself that story your whole life,

you build this kind of resentment.

- Yeah. - And the truth about it

was my dad took a lot of pride in his appearance.

Had the big Afro, always kept his clothes clean.

My mom would take credit for that. She said, "I cleaned him up."

[both laughing]

"I put him together." And he was just so together.

And he started using drugs at some point.

So, his appearance wasn't what it was.

- So it wasn't more of-- - It was shame?

- Shame. - Yeah, didn't want to be seen.

"I can't be seen like this."

How I imagine him was like, looking at himself in the mirror

- and just like... - Yeah. By showing up,

- he would disappoint you. - Exactly.

[Rick] Yeah.

That's deep.

You know, I learned that as well in that time,

like, always try to look through someone else's lens.

Everyone sees things different.

Like, everyone's gonna tell a story of today differently

because it's gonna be through their lens and through--

- Absolutely. - Through their information, and how they grew up,

and how they perceive things.

You know, we all have a different camera lens.

You know, I hear stories of someplace

that I was clearly with-- with the same people,

and I was like, that's not what happened.

- Yeah. - They just telling a whole different story.

I would say before, "You're lying.

- Why are you lying? That's not what happened." - Yeah, just...

And it's like, you know, sometimes people lie.

But sometimes, people have told themselves that story.

I'm sure I've done it before.

You've told yourself that story so much that you believe it now.

And this is the way you perceived it.

And each time, it gets more fantastic than the last time.

Whenever we experience something,

the first thing we do

- is try to make sense of it. - Mm-hmm.

- Like, nothing really makes sense. - Right.

So, we-- we have this instantaneous reaction to something.

- Mm-hmm. - It gets implanted in us,

and forevermore that's how we remember it.

- Yeah. - But we could-- could have been wrong

- with that first interpretation. - Exactly.

We don't know.

We never know.

No matter how hurt you are in a moment

to really think what was going through that person's mind,

especially if it's someone you love, to like,

really think about, like, what they was going through.

Like, what was he going-- 'cause when I got

all that understanding of, you know,

and I-- I know his little brother got killed,

his brother got stabbed.

I was maybe nine.

And this happened right after.

So, he was depressed.

Yeah, of course, he's on drugs.

I used to look down on that type of thing.

Was he close with his little brother?

Yeah, and, you know, obviously,

his charge is protect his little brother.

And I look-- by the way, I look more like his little brother than him.

Like my nephews, they look more like me than their dad.

Wow.

I couldn't go to the funeral, I was still too young.

- Yeah. - They ain't take me to-- and I loved him so much.

I think they didn't want me to see him like that,

'cause my sisters went.

- She only one year older than me. - Yeah.

It was my first moment of, like, tragic loss.

So, it was always there.

I've talked about Uncle Ray so many times.

- Yeah. - It's there. Uncle Butchie, I don't speak about much,

but he was-- he was in the background.

He was like-- you know, I remember--

like, the reason I have dreads and all that,

I can dr-- draw back to him.

He had dreads and...

back when we used to run from him for having dreads.

- Wow. Wow. - And a hat. Like, by the way,

I-- I'm thinking of this hat and these dreads that I have.

They used to call him weird. He didn't eat meat.

- Yeah. - But this is way back then.

I remember he cut himself, his blood was so dark,

and I was like, "What's wrong with him?"

But he was so healthy.

When he would come around,

because we all had our hair cut low...

- Mm-hmm. - ...it was not-- this is after Afro age.

- Yeah. - He would come with dreads and we would be embarrassed.

- Yeah. - 'Cause he was just so different.

Like, all these things make sense to me now.

You know, at that time it was like, "What's wrong with Butchie?"

He was just-- Butchie was super into, like,

he was super spiritual, super into his health.

He was Rick Rubin before Rick Rubin.

- [both laughing] - But I had no access

- to you at that time. - Yeah.

There was no access to anyone

that wasn't speaking of anything but what was happening

in the hood right then and now.

I asked you about when you had that relationship

- to projecting negativity. - Mm.

We were in Brooklyn together.

We were filming the 99 Problems video,

and you won't remember this, but we were walking somewhere.

We went to a record store, the record store

- I guess you used to go to when you were growing up. - We filmed there.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Downtown Brooklyn.

- Uh-huh, yeah. - And we were walking,

and a little girl came up to you

and said, "Can't I get an autograph?"

- Mm. - And you said,

"If you say 'can't,' you can't."

[Jay-Z] Mm-hmm.

"If you ask me, 'Can I get an autograph?'"...

Yeah.

"...I'll give you an autograph."

- And I loved it. - Yeah, that's great.

Thank you for that, I forgot about that.

- That's great. - My pleasure.

- Yeah. - I have another-- another personal story.

I don't know if you remember this,

but the very first time--

we didn't meet, but the very first time

I was in your presence was on an airplane.

There was a flight from Los Angeles to New York.

I was flying in first class on American Airlines,

and I was big at the time, and I had back issues.

- Mm-hmm. - I sat in my seat,

and I went to recline, and it wouldn't recline.

And I said to the stewardess, "There's a problem with my seat."

And she's like, "Sorry, we're sold out. Nothing we can do."

Like, okay.

And then, I hear from behind me, "Excuse me."

You-- I hear, "Excuse me.

I'm happy to switch seats with him."

And the person behind me switched his seats with me,

and that was you.

Wow. You gave me chills just now.

- Wow, I didn't even remember that. - And I didn't know it was--

- I didn't know who you were. - Right, uh-huh.

But then, we were both flying to New York,

and you were going to-- to do The Chris Rock Show.

- Mm-hmm. - And I-- I went there to see Chris Rock.

- Right. Yeah. - 'Cause we've always been friends.

And I'm standing on the side of the stage

and you came out to do your song.

I was like, "That's the guy

from the airplane who switched seats with me."

- Wow. - That was the first time

- I knew that it was you. - Yeah. Right.

I-- I would have said something on the plane

- had I known, but... - Yeah. Wow.

So, that's a good-- uh, in terms of karma.

[Jay-Z] Uh-huh.

I can attest to the fact that I know that you believe in karma

- 'cause I've seen you do good deeds out in the world... - Right.

- ...before I even knew who you were. - Wow, thank you for that, man.

- Thank you for that. - Amazing, no?

Yeah, yeah, it's incredible.

- Incredible. - Yeah.

Let's listen to another song.

- How 'bout-- - And I had to have known you,

'cause I've known you my whole life.

- [laughing] - [♪ "Big Pimpin'" playing]

♪ It's big pimpin', baby ♪

♪ It's big pimpin, spending Gs ♪

♪ Yeah, we doing big pimpin' ♪

♪ We spending cheese, check 'em out now ♪

♪ Big pimpin' on B-L-A-Ds, we doin' ♪

♪ Big pimpin' up in NYC ♪

♪ It's just that Jigga Man, Pimp C and B-U-N B ♪

♪ Yo, yo, yo, big pimpin' spendin' cheese ♪

♪ We doin' big pimpin' on B-L-A-Ds ♪

♪ We doin' big pimpin' up in NYC ♪

♪ It's just that Jigga Man, Pimp C and B-U-N B ♪

♪ Nigga, it's the big Southern rap impresario ♪

♪ Comin' straight up out the black barrio ♪

♪ Makes a mil up off a sorry ho ♪

♪ Then sit back and peep my sce-nahr-io ♪

♪ Oops, my bad, that's "My scenario" ♪

♪ No, I can't fuck a scary ho ♪

♪ Now every time, every place, everywhere we go ♪

♪ Hoes start pointin', they say, "There he go!" ♪

♪ Now, these motherfuckers know we carry mo' heat ♪

♪ Than a little bit, we don't pull it out over little shit ♪

♪ And if you catch a lick when I spit, then it won't be a little hit ♪

♪ Go read a book, you illiterate son of a bitch ♪

♪ And step up your vocab ♪

♪ Don't be surprised if your ho's there out with me ♪

♪ And you see us comin' down on yo' slab ♪

♪ Livin' ghetto-fabulous, so mad ♪

♪ You just can't take it ♪

♪ But nigga, if you hate now then you wait ♪

♪ While I get your bitch butt-naked, just break it ♪

♪ You gotta pay like you weigh wet with two pairs of clothes on ♪

♪ Now get your ass to the back as I fly to the track ♪

♪ Timbaland, let me spit my prose on ♪

♪ Posted up in the pro-zone, that's the track ♪

♪ That we breakin' these hoes on ♪

♪ Ain't the track that we flows on ♪

♪ But when shit get hot, then the Glock ♪

♪ Start poppin' like ozone... ♪