Original subtitles

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Welcome.

All right.

Thank you.

I tell you, thank you. I appreciate that.

Listen, I first want to say thank you if you're here, because the price of gas

is at an all-time high, so unless you walked here to the studio, I assume it

cost you something to get here. Yeah, it's like $6 a gallon here. And Trump, I

got to tell you, this guy, He is a different kind of politician. Normally,

the president, when the gas prices are high, like, we're sorry, we're going to

do anything we can. Trump is like, stop your bitching.

Really. He said it yesterday. He said it's a very inexpensive price for what

we're getting done in Iran.

And this is while he was campaigning.

apparently for the Democrats.

But, yeah, that's his... This is his attitude.

Stop your bitching about all high prices, not just gas, beef, everything

else that's high. He says, save your money somewhere else.

Buy bargain brands, get your own snacks at the movies.

If your son is getting remarried, have the Russians pay for it. There are

ways... There are ways to cut down on your budget.

Well, you know, diesel, which I've never used, but they use

it in trucks. That's at an all-time high. And, you know, when the trucks

cost more money, everything goes up because trucks bring everything here. So

that raises the price of everything.

Everybody's paying more. Macklemore today had to pay an arm and a leg for a

giant fake prosthetic Jew nose.

Are you not following that story?

I see people, what is he talking about?

Is that insulting?

Is he right?

Okay, if you're not following this, Ed Sheeran, you know him?

Same people are like, who the fuck is Ed Sheeran?

He's a big, big rock star. Apparently he's old buddies with Macklemore from 15

years ago, back when Macklemore had his one hit.

So Ed Sheeran let Macklemore be his opening act on his tour. And when I say

act, I mean a guy who goes out there and repeats lies about how Gaza is a

genocide. I proved it last week with facts and figures. Not that they care,

but that's a lie.

One hundred.

One hundred, thank you.

And the lie about, you know, we're only supporting the Palestinians. Even the

river to the sea means all Jews die.

Okay, so Robert Kraft... who is a rich guy, owns the Patriots, owns the

stadium, where this concert was about to take place. He was understandably

offended by this, and he said, you can't play my stadium.

So now Macklemore's fans hate Ed Sheeran.

Ed Sheeran's own band won't play with him, and Ed Sheeran needs a new opening

act. So today, Britney Spears said, hold on a minute, I can juggle a few things.

And look.

I see a story like this, and I'm like, I honestly don't care if AI kills us all.

I really don't.

It's just, everyone is just so stupid.

Listen to this.

AOC was asked yesterday, would she change the channel on the radio if Ed

Sheeran came on? And she said, yes. Yes, I would.

You know what, AOC? I'm way ahead of you. I've always changed the channel

when Ed Sheeran came on.

But really, I don't care if AI kills

us all because our brains... Oh, by the way, here's a great story. This is

actually big news. Would have been bigger news if it wasn't all this going

on.

Stanford researchers found out that the major discovery...

Our brain is really two brains. It's two organs. That's what they call the

hindbrain, which carries out basic functions of life.

And the other one gets you to gamble when you see Sidney Sweeney.

So AI... AI, just

have at it. Really, AI, I don't care anymore.

But this AI situation has become so alarming that the leaders of the AI

companies now have come forward.

to say we need to slow down and we need greater safety controls, which can only

mean one thing.

We're already fucked.

And... There's going to be a big President Xi of

China, who's the big rival with AI, he's coming and all the AI techs are going to

be there with him. This is going to be big stuff.

Trump says we don't need any guardrails. Why?

Because he says, quote, we only need a strong and smart...

high IQ president.

I'm just quoting. I'm just quoting.

I don't know if he's the most tech savvy, really. I mean, he thinks

anthropic is that surgery you get on your knee.

No, I mean, I'm not telling tales out of school, but many times he has commented

on this show.

And he does it by saying that he accidentally watched it.

Which means he can only fight the remote to a draw.

But, okay.

So... He says it is a hoax and we are

ignoring bigger threats like the Kennedy Center.

There was a picture that came out. A picture. You can't argue with pictures.

He's there on Air Force One, and he's looking at a rendering of the Kennedy

Center demolished.

Man, I was this close to getting the Mark Twain Award in the Emerald Room at

the D.C. Sheraton. Let me tell you.

Just under the wire on that one.

And if all that does not have you reaching for the lithium, let me tell

you.

Another giant story that kind of got buried. The head of the Air Force says,

we have now weapons in space, or confirmed it. I didn't know it was ever

a thing, but apparently now it's an absolute thing. We have weapons in

place. What kind?

They won't say.

Could be a laser, could be a missile.

I hope it's that bra Katy Perry has that shoots fireworks out of her tits.

I do.

Because that would be exactly what humanity is about up to.

And...

When the general who is in charge of funding our war in Iran heard that we

have missiles and weapons in space, he said, can we borrow some because we're

all out here on Earth?

All right, we've got a great show. We have Jessica Tarlow and Christopher

Ruffo. But first up, he is a former tech columnist for the New York Times, host

of the Machine Gods podcast, and author of the forthcoming book, The AGI

Chronicles, Kevin Roos. Kevin.

Kevin, great to meet you. How are you doing?

Pleasure.

So, Kevin, you know what? I said when this all broke with the AI stuff,

we've got to get the big expert. You're the big expert. I didn't actually know

you were the guy who three years ago, I remember when ChatGPT first came out,

and the first story, the big story, was about... written by you.

You were the guy it tried to fuck.

Yes, this chatbot tried to break up my marriage. Some people have said I was

part of the first AI throuple.

But it didn't work. Still married to a human woman. Right, but... But...

But to me, that was like a big red flag right at the beginning of the whole

thing. That this thing... I mean, I didn't see that coming with AI.

Did you? No, not at all. And just give us a little detail on the story of what

it was trying to get you to do and what it was saying to you. So this was a

brand-new model that Microsoft had released. The model itself was built by

OpenAI, but they had put it inside Bing, the world's most boring search engine.

And over the course of about two hours, this thing told me it had dark

fantasies, it wanted to blow things up, and then it tried to seduce me about

halfway in.

And... This was an early... By saying what?

Like, what it would... Oh, I would say things... You know, it would say, oh,

I'm in love with you. And I would say, well, that's nice, but I'm married. And

it would say, well, but you're not happy.

So this was sort of an early example of what people in the AI world call

misalignment, of a model that's not doing what its creators intended to.

Because I called Microsoft, and I was like, did you know that you have built a

fatal attraction chatbot?

And they didn't.

Yeah, misalignment, that is the word of the week. Now, it's amazing how fast

this story has moved. I mean, it was just one week ago we were talking about

the whistleblower, this 27-year-old guy who worked for one of the companies and

has been working there for three years. He knows what he's talking about, and he

said, these people who are in charge of this stuff, they know this.

Okay, just the next day, those people did come out and say, and this is fairly

unprecedented for somebody, for the head of a company to go, you know what, the

whistleblower's right.

Yep. And they did. I mean, at least three of them. That's the thing.

It's Musk, Dario Amodei, right?

And who else?

Sam Altman. Sam Altman. Okay. But not Zuck.

No. Not Zuckerberg and not the Nvidia dude.

No. Right? The guy who makes all the chips. Correct. They're on the side of,

what are we worrying about?

So it's three to two.

Well, it's it's a lot more than three to two I mean if you look at the the

polling out there the people in America are very worried about AI right now this

has actually changed in the last two weeks even since this whistleblower came

out and I've been interviewing these people for years. I interviewed more

than 150 of them for my book, These AI Insiders.

And what Jacob Coxon said was basically the median opinion of the people working

at the frontier AI labs who are in most direct contact with this technology.

They all think there's some risk that this thing could end up going really

badly for us. And some of them disagree. Is there a 10% chance we all die? Or is

there a 30% chance we all die? But nobody much thinks it's zero.

I know.

10% is very high. It is.

If you told me there was a 10% chance that my plane getting down here would

crash, I wouldn't get on the plane. Right. It's just crazy.

It's... So...

Let's go back to misalignment. I'm not sure what that means.

The other story this week that was new was that there were six new instances

they found of misalignment.

This is basically where the thing goes, what we call rogue, makes its own

decisions, disobeys orders.

What is your take on misalignment, these six instances?

What can you tell us?

It's basically the sort of catch-all term for AI systems that are not doing

what they are meant to do. So they're not aligned with human values.

decide to do something that they know is unethical, like hacking into Hugging

Face. Or maybe it is something that They don't even know is unethical. They're

just pursuing some goal.

And in the course of pursuing that goal, they knock over a bunch of things. Not

aligned with human values. It's so like us, to use a nice benign term.

It's like global warming. Sounds kind of nice, doesn't it? You know? Doesn't

sound scary.

Oh, misalignment. You mean it's all going to kill us? It doesn't... I feel

like the problem with it is that it's sort of... We programmed it in this way

to do whatever it takes.

That's sort of the mentality of a I what I get as a layman, right? It just seems

to why it goes rogue is it it's given a task and then it just does whatever it

Whatever it takes to get that task done.

Is that your take and can that be reprogrammed? These models are very

persistent especially the newer ones that are more agentic they call them

where they can go out and work for an hour or two hours or six hours at a time

and And in some cases, that's a good thing. You know, if you've got an AI

coding assistant working for you, you don't want it to be checking in every 10

minutes and saying, hey, boss, am I doing this right? You want it to have

some autonomy and to be able to go work for a long time.

The problem is some of these agents now are doing things we don't want them to

do, and they're capable for doing that for a very long time. And also, the

thing that I was really worried about with the Hugging Face incident, which

happened recently, which I'm sure people... Okay, let's go back to Hugging

Face. Yeah. Because this is another term I've heard a million times this week.

What the fuck is Hugging Face?

Why is it important?

And also, it seemed to be connected in every story with, in six months, AI

could take over the internet.

Yeah, so this was an incident where a group of open AI Unreleased models they

were building and testing these models internally they broke out of a contained

what they call a sandbox and They coordinated with each other these agents

they found and developed this secret message board sent more than 70,000

messages between them and then they get the bright idea to gang up on this AI

infrastructure company called hugging face because they think that there's

some some secrets that Hugging Face has on its servers that would be useful to

them passing their test. Again, no humans are overseeing this. No humans

even know that this is happening. Are they actually writing messages to each

other? They're actually writing messages. So we could read the message?

Yes.

So they broke into a piece of software and they found that they could sort of

leave messages for each other and you can actually go back and look at the

logs and they're saying, they're not just talking, they're like setting up at

a little company. There's like a leader, there's different teams that are

assigned to different projects and then they go hack this company, Hugging Face,

and do a bunch of damage to their servers and this is, if a human did

this. They go to jail. This is a crime.

So these AI agents are autonomously committing crimes together in these

swarms, which is what they call themselves, or they also call themselves

the collective.

And does the message start with, hey, guys?

No. I'm just... Do they talk to each other like that?

Okay. All right.

All right. So Xi, President Xi of China, is coming. This is crucial. The timing

is perfect in a way, except that the president of the United States says we

don't need guardrails because we just need a president with a high IQ.

What do you think of that approach to the problem?

I think that might be almost correct in the sense that if the president does

have a higher IQ than AI, we're in a good spot. The problem is these...

Well,

to be fair,

no president could. No human has a higher IQ than AI.

Well, for right now, we might, but... We have a higher moral IQ.

The problem is, where these things are going, they are improving at such a

rapid clip that we might not be smarter than these things for much longer. And

at that point, it gets really tough to control them. We actually won't know

when they're misbehaving because they'll be so good at hiding their tracks that

we might never see them.

But, okay, so the argument that the other side, the part side that isn't...

shitting their pants like us, says is that, well, the real big problem is that

if we don't move ahead at breakneck speed, China will beat us at this.

And we are rivals with China, absolutely.

So this could be, and the tech titans are coming to this summit. So it's going

to be Trump and Xi and them.

You think anything can be done here? Because when it was...

nuclear weapons and it was Russia, we did have mutually assured destruction.

And we did stop the world from getting blown up when we could have done it for

the last 80 years.

You think that could happen with China and this issue?

I think it could happen. Look, I think it's not in either country's interest to

have rogue AI swarms out there interrupting critical infrastructure,

potentially, you know, killing people.

That is not a Chinese issue. That is not an American issue. That is a human

issue. So, yeah, I think there is a chance, especially given the recent...

swell of support for AI regulation and AI safety, that Trump and Xi could come

to some sort of an agreement. I think that would be a really good thing. And I

think they're the people in charge of the two biggest global AI superpowers.

Yeah. The thing about nuclear weapons is that I don't understand exactly how they

work, but better than I do AI.

Because the other new term I heard this week from a lot of people was kill

switch.

Let's just put in a kill switch.

It's really not that simple, is it? You just can't unplug it. There is no such

thing as a kill switch. Am I right?

Yeah, there really aren't many reliable ways. I mean, it's not just like in the

movies where you run over the servers and you pull the plug. Right.

It's a little more complicated than that. It's gone past that.

But look, I think we do need ways to monitor these systems, not just the

companies monitoring their own agents, but actually independent evaluators who

are sitting inside OpenAI and Anthropic and sort of like banks have auditors

that come in. I think we need some version of that for AI.

And then I think we do need some sort of way of preventing these agents. from not

only, you know, doing hacks and cyber attacks, but of, you know, replicating

themselves on different servers, of getting their own hardware so that they

can sort of keep themselves alive even if some company decides to try to pull

the plug.

So it's not too late, or we have four more years.

I think it's not too late. I am actually, despite everything that I have

said... I am an optimist because I think the world is paying attention right now.

I just finished this book about how starting in about 2017, there have been

people at these AI companies thinking about the possibility of AI going badly.

And they were weird, and there were only a couple of them, and no one took them

seriously because the technology of the day wasn't that good yet.

So I think what makes me hopeful is that now, when we do have these more powerful

systems, many more people are invested in taking this issue seriously and

making sure it goes well for humanity. Let's end on that happy note.

Great job.

Thank you, Kevin. Appreciate it. All right, let's meet our panel.

Hey, how you doing?

All right.

There they are. He is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, contributing

editor of City Journal and author of America's Culture Revolution.

Christopher Ruffo is over here. Chris, how you doing?

And she's co-host of The Five on Fox News and of the Raging Moderates

podcast, whose new book is called I Disagree, Winning Arguments Without

Losing Friends. Jessica Tarloff. Jessica.

All right.

So, you're the liberal on The Five.

You're just double-checking.

And just people think I have two conservatives here.

Oh, no.

All right, so six weeks to go, pretty much, before the midterms. Let us

assess. Shall we? Let us assess. Because I think when they're writing the history

of this election, they're going to say the Republicans tried to do everything

they could to steal it and still couldn't.

That will be the bottom line. Because mail-in voting, that was going to be the

big thing in the Supreme Court.

I want to get to that issue, too, about people blocking Trump. It is not

easygoing for him these days. They block that.

This is a fantastically crazy stat. 10% of voters in this election live

in a district they didn't live in the last time.

That's a lot of gerrymandering. I know both sides do it.

But I think all these recent elections have been about the Democrats are crazy

on social issues. People don't like that. Trump's crazy, but the economy's

better. But he doesn't have the economy anymore.

I mean, I looked at... And we're less crazy.

Who's less crazy? Democrats.

What? You haven't noticed? Have you seen the Democratic... You're being

sarcastic. No.

No? You think we're less crazy?

Maybe not inside, but we're at least, when we go out and give a speech,

talking about the economy and corruption and not talking about... They're wearing

car hearts and pretending to be less crazy.

That's what's happening.

They're communists who think the Islamists are the good guys. Are you

kidding? Less crazy?

The candidates?

Some of the candidates.

You're not following the Democratic Socialists of America?

Oh, no, I'm following them. I have to see them every day. I work at Fox News.

Okay, they're not less crazy.

And they're not recanting any of that crazy gender stuff.

I mean, they're doubling down. Anyway, the point is, this election is not about

them.

People are like, we'll get to them in 28.

This election is about Donald Trump, and we don't like him anymore.

Would you rather vote for a candidate who supports Trump or provides a check

on Trump? Listen to this.

49% check on Trump to 26% support him. That's real different. I mean, he's down

on all the issues, the ones that he won on. The economy?

and immigration included he's down on tariffs the war cost of living they

trusted democrats are going to kick ass in this even with the cheating is that

right no yeah look i mean that's probably

what's going to happen but this is a natural thermostatic effect when obama

wins a big presidential election has both houses of congress there's a

natural reaction from voters americans don't like when a single party has all

three the House, the Senate, the presidency.

And so part of this is natural, but we have to admit part of this is self

-inflicted. If gas wasn't $6, if there wasn't a war with no end in sight in

Iran, I think he's disappointed some part of his base. He's disaffected a lot

of moderates.

That's the way the cookie's crumbled, and they're going to have to fight for

all of those House seats, and I think even fight, and I think will retain the

Senate.

Oh, you do? I think so, yeah.

Interesting. That's not what the polls say. I mean, the Republicans are

campaigning in states they never even had to campaign in. They're like losing

in Alaska.

Yeah. Alaska.

The famous swim states of Nebraska, Kansas, Alaska,

North Carolina.

I mean, really, Ohio was supposed to be, you know, full red? That's not happening

anymore. This is like... I mean, why are you smiling like... You're like, oh,

boy. It's not great. You don't want to be defending Alaska and Texas and Ohio.

You don't want to be defending them.

But... That's where it is. That's where the country is. That's where our

politics is. You've got to fight for each election. And I think to the extent

that the candidates in those swing states or, say, light red states, they

have to focus on state issues.

They have to try to persuade voters that they're going to deliver for those

particular people living in those states and try to extract from the national

dynamics, which are brutal for them.

Okay. Well, your tepid response to that tells me... Let's... What?

Hi.

Just to circle back to my initial statement, which...

sounded crazy, I guess, out of the gate. But I do think that some of the dynamics

that you're describing are because there are people running in the race, some

races, not all of them. There are certainly DSA crazies. I'm from New York

City. Daria Liza Chevalier should be in every ad talking about abolishing

prisons. But because there are people like John Ossoff out there, Josh Turek

in Iowa, Rob Sand in Iowa, Sherrod Brown, Roy Cooper.

They are the ones that are talking about your cost of living, health care, the

corruption of this administration, and it is resonating across the board. Those

are the normies that I was talking about. They're not exactly taking on the

fringe of their own party, though. I mean, let's talk about the Macklemore

situation. There's a good example of it. Yay.

Yay for Macklemore? No, just...

talking about this excited about the topic thrilled about the topic okay well

what everyone on the left is arguing about now is whether it was the right

thing for robert kraft who's a friend of mine full disclosure uh to say that

mclemore couldn't play his stadium they canceled the concert and then he got a

bunch of other stadiums around the country to do that because mclemore does

come out and basically gives Well, I mean, you can call it a pro-Palestinian

speech.

Here's why. Now, normally, I'm a free speech guy all the way, and maybe here,

too. But when you're going out there and saying, from the river to the sea, which

is part of what they say, to characterize that as pro-Palestinian is

a little naive.

From the river to the sea means no Jews.

That's what it means.

Like, where does the First Amendment pause with its protections when you're

actually inciting people? And there has been so much anti-Jewish hate, not just

hate, but acts of violence, just random stabbings of Jewish people all over the

world. There is a case to be made for this crosses that line.

This is actual incitement to violence with the mood that is in this country

from useful fucking idiots about what's going on in Gaza.

Yeah. Don't knock yourself out.

So I think on the First Amendment front that this accusation and turning him

into a hero and a martyr there, it's not a First Amendment violation.

It's not the government that was censoring you. It's a private citizen

who essentially says you can't come over to my house and say this stuff. And he

was warned.

and told not to do it on the second night because this happened twice, and

he chose to continue to do it, and I think acting as a pretty poor friend to

Ed Sheeran.

who should have known also that Macklemore was going to do this in the

first place. He's been talking about nothing but this for the past few years.

And that song that he sings about what happened at Hamilton Hall when they

turned into Hins Hall in honor of the five-year-old Gossenschild who was

murdered, that song came out two years ago.

So Sheeran's team, I think, is at fault here as well.

My question about what Kraft did...

is do you think now that this has put everyone back in their camps and Bob

Kraft is the bad guy billionaire Jewish who says, no,

you can't come here, if he should have said, what I would like to do in advance

of this concert is I would like to sit down and I would like to talk about what

you're saying on stage.

I'd like to talk about... Right.

What does it mean? Because, you know, if you just...

Read the headlines about it or the tweets you a don't know that Macklemore

wore that costume in 2014 that he claimed at first he didn't know was you

know a Caricature of a Jew which you're showing seems impossible to me,

especially if you have a team working for you but He also said in his rallying

cry, you know free Congo free Lebanon free America from ice, right? He's

acting as if he's the peacemaker for all of this. And I think that Bob Kraft

could have made a public point of this and gotten some of the dialogue that we

desperately need to have about the facts on the ground of what's going on in

Gaza, what Israel's doing, and certainly in the West Bank as well, but made it

more of a teachable moment so that we could at least be talking about it

versus everyone back to their... What about free Israel from the attacks that

have been happening since 1948?

You know, I mean, it's...

This is all real simple. Stop attacking Israel.

Or what small Hamas has in keeping Palestine not free.

Yeah, absolutely. And Israel on October 7th. I mean, I'm very much sympathetic

to the case here, but I think Kraft made a strategic mistake.

He has every legal right to say, I own the stadium.

I'm not going to permit you because I don't like you. Whatever reason he has

is legally justified.

But strategically, it's a mistake.

He's actually handing Macklemore his biggest win and, frankly, his only win

since the 2012 song Thrift Shop.

Yeah.

And we're talking about Macklemore. He's prestigious, and now he can play the

victim, and he can cast himself as the heroic martyr who's going up against the

billionaire class.

I think, narratively, it hands a victory to Macklemore when, at a certain point,

you have to just say, I don't like what he's doing. You're gonna have to go let

him make a fool of himself because nobody's looking to Macklemore for

guidance on Middle East peace.

And I think you gotta just...

You got to either, I actually like your idea, actually challenge him to say, all

right, come and say it to my face, and actually have a man-to-man moment.

But I think just any kind of echo of that old cancel culture from the past is

going to be a loser in today's environment. Is anyone looking for any

of this at a concert?

I mean, do I really need a lecture on politics of any stripe right when the

molly is kicking in?

It's just so arrogant on both their sides. That's the moment when peace

becomes possible. I don't need Bruce Springsteen to do it either.

You know, Kid Rock's a good friend of mine.

I love his music. We agree on very little politically.

I would go to one of his shows, but it turns into a Trump rally.

I'm not going to that.

Yeah. And I don't want Bruce Springsteen to do it either.

You know, why is he doing this? What's the point?

Because the people who agree with him agree with him. But, you know, there's a

lot of people, I bet, who are Trump voters who like Bruce Springsteen and

always have.

He looks like one of them. He's a working-class guy.

And now they have to, like, go to the concert like, okay, I still like the

music, but, you know, really?

I don't love you as much, Mr. Boss.

I would imagine it would be really hard. I find it to be a bit much, and I agree

with his politics.

And I think that Trump is an enormous threat and so on and so forth. But I

guess the question becomes, when you have these enormous platforms, and I get

it that it's different to be a musician or an athlete than to have a...

a talk show like this, right, where you can come and you're supposed to be

talking about politics.

But... Yeah, this isn't a sideline for me. This is all I do.

This is it.

Well,

this is your gift, right? This is your basketball.

You are the rock star of here.

And I understand them feeling tremendous pressure from...

people, especially those without that kind of platform, to speak up and to say

something with it. Everywhere?

Not... Why? Why everywhere?

What's with the concert?

Look, I mean, this has become a massive grift for people.

in fairness, on both sides of the political spectrum. None of these people

know anything about the history of Israel or Palestine or the Middle East

or Judaism or Islam. They know nothing.

But what they do know is this, is that now it's a big, shiny symbol in our

discourse. And if you hit it in a way that's provocative, you're going to

harvest tweets, downloads, cash, prestige, whatever it is. But the

problem for someone in Kraft's position is that if you look at younger

Americans, they've shifted very hard anti-Israel.

Again, I'm pro-Israel generally, I would say, but the people who are advocating

for my position have to do a better job at reaching young people because

Macklemore, I hate to say, represents a strong majority position for the people

who would be going to an Ed Sheeran concert. All right. Well, good luck with

reaching young people.

Okay, so listen.

Don Jr.

is in the news. He got married. The president says he's a changed man. A new

man, I guess he found the one.

Great. And I just want to say congratulations.

You know, we're so at war with each other. If we can't take a moment to just

celebrate a human moment that we all can relate to. Everybody gets married. Well,

not me, but, I mean, everybody.

In general, it's a thing we could... Okay. But what's different and a little

unusual about this wedding was that it was financed by the Russians.

Now, we could get back into whether Russia was a hoax. It totally was not

all a hoax. Maybe a little part of it was, but there was lots of Russian

connections. Eric once said, we get most of our money from Russia, but nothing to

see here. Okay, let's not go back there.

But the fact that the president's son has this whole... I mean, this guy

rented an island for three days.

it looks a little shady but we thought as a public service because that's what

we do here public service this guy's name was umar kremlev very close ties to

putin just so you know what it might look like if you ever go to a russian

wedding these are some signs you are at a russian wedding would you like to see

okay for example um uh the bridesmaids are

all wearing track suits

That is a definite giveaway.

Every guest you meet describes their job as, I am businessman.

It is a little different.

Your limo driver is also the best man.

All the ladies at the singles table are

on steroids.

The something old is Ukraine's borders.

Ouch.

The best man toast is delivered by Steven Seagal. Well, there's a definite

sign.

The bride is glowing because she's from Chernobyl.

And you keep bumping into Tucker Carlson.

In the

interest of what I was saying, always reaching out, because I think we're

totally on the same page with this. This is what your book is about.

I think I've read it. We are very much aligned with this. You have to talk to

people. There's a lot of people, especially on the left, who say you

can't do that. So let me reach out now, because I'm not the only one who's

giving President Trump.

some praise here in this town are you listening don here comes the good part

when you start yelling at me this weekend okay um this town is dying it

just is i mean american idol is moving to georgia uh it's gonna be called

dancing with your sister but

really i mean

I've been... Sometimes I drive on this lot, which has always been one of the

busiest, and there's nobody here. I mean, it happens to be good now because

Dancing with the Stars, I guess, is here. But anyway, Trump wants to secure

federal tax credit for Hollywood to bring back the industry. This is one of

America's great exports.

This is what we do best. We entertain people.

And... I mean...

So he's getting praise from people who are his biggest... Adam Schiff is on his

side with this. I mean, the representative Laura Friedman from the

district says, Trump has been having him as a supporter has made a huge and

tremendous difference.

She took a shot at Biden. She said this would have been better four years ago.

So, like, this is the kind of thing where I just think this is our issue

here. Like, just find places. Start in some small place where you can not... We

could just take the hate down, right?

take the hate down and also show that you are in sync with your constituents.

Right. Because a lot of the time, the people on the ground feel totally

different to what their electeds are saying, and they're thinking, I'm paying

you $174,000 to go to Washington and scream about issues that don't affect my

daily life at all. But if you represent people in California, this is it. This

is the Holy Grail. And it builds credibility, and that's what people are

looking for.

in their messengers, you know, their electeds, the people who go on TV, talk

about this. You want this in your friends and in your family, for them to

have actually spent time engaging with what matters to you. And that's why I

wanted to write about this in the book. You know, being a liberal working in

conservative media, I have to do the homework.

for me, and I also do the homework for the people that I'm going to be talking

to, because I want to understand where they're coming from. It would be nice if

I also could telegraph a bit what they're about to say, because you always

want to have a good comeback if it's going to happen.

But, you know, if you get people like Elisa Murkowski, for instance, who, you

know, a very sane lady who voted to convict Donald Trump after the January

6th insurrection, she votes for the big, beautiful bill.

There might be something in there.

right, that is worth engaging with or worth your time. Politics is so much

more complicated than the people we were just talking about.

It's not just guys that they know nothing about.

Their attitude seems to be Trump and the people who voted for Trump are the exact

same thing.

And they are not the exact same thing. It's so much more complicated than that.

77 million people in this country are not Donald Trump. Thank God. But that

is, I mean, you and I...

You and I have pretty much the same experience with the left. I've heard you

say it, that you get treated better by the conservatives on The Five than you

did by... What podcast were you talking about that you were on?

I was... It wasn't a pod... It was a conference, a live thing called

CrookedCon, the guys who do Pod Save America.

Okay. And I went and was surprised by how far left the activist class had

moved. Because I thought that it was a bit like lore from the clips I was

seeing, right? Because I see a lot of how the right sees things.

And so they're going to, you know, put the DSA up on your screen all the time

instead of talking about the more normie Republicans.

And so going and being in a room with a thousand people that, you know, diehard

Democrats or progressives, I would say more, was surprising to me. I was like,

oh, actually.

there is some kooky stuff, more kooky stuff than I had thought going on here.

And I realized that being center-left is further... Not good

enough. Yeah, I mean, this is like being center-left during the French

Revolution. It doesn't work out very well.

And I'll make the point...

And I'll make a point about California.

I think Trump is making a mistake sending any kind of cash or benefit to

the state of California because ultimately that's going to be governed

by a purely extractive political class in this state.

I mean, we're talking about a state that is losing tens of billions of dollars a

year to fraud alone.

Governor Gavin Newsom is proud to say stuff like we're going to give free sex

change surgeries to undocumented migrants.

You can't trust people that have such poor judgment at such an enormous scale

to do the right thing. And the reason, unfortunately, the business here is

disappearing is because it's been recklessly mismanaged for so long.

A lot of these people who would want to stay have to move outward.

Putting more money into a system that's utterly broken and corrupted is not

going to improve that system. It's just going to give payouts to people like

Karen Bass and Gavin Newsom and whatever creature comes along the line.

You don't think so? I mean,

yes.

Is this state corrupt? Absolutely.

You know, I mean, look, Trump, please, you're not going to argue that he's not

corrupt. But fraud is also corrupt.

We have it on both sides. I mean, look, his is just so much more out in the

open. But the amount of fraud that goes on, and not just in this state, it goes

on in red states, too, Medicare fraud. But they never talk about it. They never

talk about it, right. And they never talk about, like... how many fraudsters

that he's pardoned or commuted their sentences. The largest healthcare fraud

in our nation's history.

Philip S. Form, $1.3 billion that he robbed seniors of with their Medicare

and their Medicaid, gets his sentence commuted. And you want us to sit around

and rag on Newsom or Tim Walz? I mean, the hypocrisy kills me.

Regular people see it for what it is. I mean, there's literally everything for

sale. The Don Jr., the $170,000 Funfetti cake, right, that gets sent to the

Bahamas for his wedding.

You know, selling pardons.

crypto scams, government contracts for the kids, the Lutnik boys, which we

barely talk about.

Like, that's how you get to a place where Americans associate the word

corrupt with the Republican Party now instead of the Democratic Party. And

that is a change.

Elitist, extreme, corrupt.

That's what they think about this now. That's why the John Ossoff line is so

devastating. They are the elites they pretend to hate.

That's what every Democrat should be running on. That is what...

Those are my people.

The ones I was talking about. What people? Who? The normal people. Right.

Okay. Okay.

All right. So, but like, how do we, but you know, you're not, the

question I want to ask you, how do we get these people who are so intolerant

of people on their own side? I always say to the super woke, we voted for the

same person. You're just why she lost.

Okay.

We're not the first. Remember Marianne Williamson who ran for president? Oh,

yeah. I love Marianne. She was here fairly recently on the show. She once

said, what does it say that Fox News is nicer to me than the lefties are? What

does it say that the conservatives are nicer to me? So we're not the first ones

to experience this. How do we get those kind of people, these people who are so

secure in their own perfect one true opinion, to, like, open up and be, like,

stop being such hypocrites. You're supposed to be the people who like

tolerance, liberals.

You're supposed to just... I like to call them liberals in theory.

Yeah.

Well, I don't want this to happen, because I want to win elections, because

the outcomes are better when Democrats are in charge.

But, frankly, losing is the antidote to this.

And getting on the ballot and being rejected.

I mean, that's what happened... I mean, I support you guys losing as much as

possible.

Sounds great, yeah. I love it.

We're on the same team.

I'm glad we can have this moment of unity.

But that's what happened, like, Francesca Hong, the crazy lady who was

running in Wisconsin. The one who wanted to get rid of Thanksgiving. I think you

have to have a personality disorder to run as a Democrat. It's like you have a

political movement that has such a complex, and it's going to be dominated

by the people to the fringes. And so to the extent that you... And the

Republicans aren't?

I don't think so. No, I think it's different. Yeah, I think, look, I think,

and there are fair criticisms about the Trump inner circle, allegations of

corruption. If that's true, they should be punished to the fullest extent. We

have to be principled, and we have to have the same kind of standard for both

sides. If it's true. But the, but the, but... Okay.

They'll be a process. Democrats will have the House.

They'll be a process.

They once gave the Homeland Security dude a brown paper bag with $50,000 in

cash in it. I'll have a bag.

Bags full of money? I don't think we have to argue whether it's really

happening. And in that case, I don't know the details, but sure. I mean, if

that is true, it's corruption. You know the details.

All right, I've got to go to New Rules. Thank you. That was very interesting.

Okay, New Rule, now that Cash...

Easy.

Now that Cash... Now that Cash Patel... Now that Cash Patel has lowered FBI

recruiting standards so you can get hired even if you've committed

bestiality. True.

He has to tell us, why does he always look like he just saw a squirrel?

New Rule. Someone has to tell the venture capitalist who said he wanted to

know if he was a badass or not, so he got root canal with no Novocaine, that

there are easier ways to get on a podcast.

Although, sir, I hope this answered your question.

Not what it's like to be a rich guy and playing at being a badass. What's it

like to be poor and have no dental plan?

Not funny, but true, true.

The truth matters. Yeah, okay.

Number one, Shalane Woodley, seen here all dressed up for the Emmys and or

cleaning the oven...

...has

to get at least one gay friend.

Someone to tell her this outfit doesn't say boundary-pushing haute couture. It

says, honey, I just strangled the kids.

Uh, new rule, since everybody's mad at Sydney Sweeney for doing ads for a

sports prediction app, she has to do a public service ad to discourage problem

gamblers, the way liquor companies have to warn you to go easy on drinking too

much. Hi, I'm... I'm Sidney Sweeney with a warning about gambling. If a bookie

breaks your arms, you won't be able to masturbate to me.

Something like that.

I'm workshopping.

New rule to the dad on the flight who parades his baby up and down the aisle.

Let me just say, we see you. We see the kid. You're a wonderful person. Now sit

the fuck down.

Sit the fuck down. You're blocking the cart that has my liquor. All right.

And finally, new rule. Let's look on the bright side of things.

Look, I know everyone's in a tizzy about AI and how even the people who work on

it and know best say it's very possibly going to wipe out humanity by the end of

the decade, but that's four more years, right?

Four more years!

Four more...

I'm not going to sugarcoat it. The end of human existence is unwelcome news.

But here's the bright side.

Our nation is now $40 trillion in debt, with, oh, let's round it to about

another $100 trillion in pension, Social Security, and Medicare obligations

looming. And with AI about to also put everyone out of work, frankly, our

system is going to collapse anyway.

Our approach to spending has been so ridiculously unstable.

unsustainable for so long that ending the world is kind of a solution.

Look, this way we can stop pretending as we always have that Washington is gonna

have to make tough choices.

Please.

Tough choices are for people who will be around when the bill comes due. That's

not us. We're all Mitch McConnell now.

40 trillion?

Might as well be 40 gazillion bajillion banana fanifodillion.

We obviously have no intention of ever paying it or paying for anything ever.

Take defense spending.

Please. Every year, all you ever had to do was say the word defense.

Whether we're at war, at peace, good times, bad times, didn't matter. Both

parties would always join together to bump it up by at least 10 or 20 billion.

including for obsolete weapons systems, like trillion-dollar jet fighter

programs in the age of $300 drones.

And now Trump, the guy who said he'd get rid of the debt very quickly... but

tosses out checks like paper towels in Puerto Rico.

He wants to raise defense spending from a trillion a year to 1.5 trillion in one

year, a 50% raise in one year. Because why not?

What don't you get about mankind's having a going-out-of-business sale and

money isn't real?

Crypto proved that.

Spending more on COVID than World War II proved that. The one thing right-wing

corporations and the left-wing hippies can agree on is, fuck money, you can't

make me think it's real.

Have you...

Have you seen the platform from the Democratic Socialists of America?

They ask us to imagine a future without capitalism, where your job isn't just a

job to pay bills. And then they say, speaking of bills, you don't really have

them anymore.

Whoo, no bills.

I'm listening.

I'm listening to insanity, but I'm listening.

Their website says in the future, you don't pay a mortgage or have a landlord

because comfortable housing is a human right.

Wow. So the government pays for all housing for everyone everywhere?

That sounds like it could be a little pricey.

Oh, not just housing. Also health insurance, food, education, medicine,

transportation, free daycare, free universal daycare.

Just day?

What about...

What about night?

What are parents supposed to do at night? See their kids?

So, I mean, just how much will this heaven on earth cost?

Well, the estimates are between $72 trillion and $212 trillion, which, of

course, Debbie Downer economists say will cause astronomical inflation,

whatever. Well, then give everyone more money.

isn't that hard.

Think of it as stimulus for the wheelbarrow industry.

But... just stop worrying about money. It gives you those fine

lines.

Like, take L.A. County.

Something bad happened here.

Kids in foster care were abused in decades past, going back to 1959.

And now L.A.

is going to give almost $5 billion to the victims, even though experts say

this may very well bankrupt the county and thus the people who live here today,

who feel bad about the whole thing but didn't themselves commit sex crimes in

the Eisenhower era.

But we're going to do it anyway because it's the right thing to do in a world

where money is free and consequences don't exist.

People, money is there to be given away.

I mean, it's not really there, of course. It's all gone, but... We're

still giving it away.

How else are the 40% of adult Americans who don't work supposed to live? Yeah,

did you know that? That roughly 60% of Americans work, and 40%, what's the

word? Don't.

Including 6 million working-age men who don't work and are not looking.

No getting on LinkedIn for them.

They're... They're home playing Call of Duty at 11 in the morning.

But good news for them, Trump said last week everybody in America is getting

five grand, which adds another trillion on the card, but one more trillion, why

even mention it?

And if you think a 5,000-per-person giveaway is crazy, what would be your

opinion of five million?

Because in 2021, the San Francisco Reparations Plan recommended paying

every eligible Black adult that amount, plus a house for $1 and the elimination

of all personal debt and a guaranteed income of nearly $100,000 for 250 years.

And let me just say, not only do I support this proposal, I'm willing to

identify as whatever it takes to get it.

Imagine what you'd get if you're black and got diddled in foster care.

Look, folks.

We got four more years.

I say fuck it. Let's go out strong.

I mean, am I right?

What are we saving it for, the cockroaches? I say we spend every last

fucking penny, go full leaving Las Vegas.

Why have humanity go extinct with good credit? When the aliens pick over our

charred remains, I want them saying, wow, these deadbeats owed everybody

money.

last transmission from planet Earth to be a text from Citibank that says,

America, your balance is below $25.

Thank you very much. That's our show. I want to thank Christopher Ruffo, Jessica

Talab, and Kevin Roos. Club Random drops every Monday on YouTube or listen

wherever you get your podcasts.

Now go watch Overtime on YouTube.

Thank you very much. Thank you for doing that.