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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:43,961 --> 00:00:45,711 [V.O.] A tributary 2 00:00:45,712 --> 00:00:49,299 of the Tigris-Euphrates River system in modern-day Iraq. 3 00:00:52,511 --> 00:00:54,888 Known in ancient times as Mesopotamia, 4 00:00:56,515 --> 00:00:59,517 this is where one of the first human civilizations emerged 5 00:00:59,518 --> 00:01:00,811 thousands of years ago. 6 00:01:07,776 --> 00:01:11,738 It's also where one of the earliest versions of money was invented. 7 00:01:14,449 --> 00:01:15,741 The story of money 8 00:01:15,742 --> 00:01:19,037 is one of the oldest and most powerful stories ever told. 9 00:01:19,871 --> 00:01:22,583 One that's still being written as we speak. 10 00:01:23,875 --> 00:01:25,085 - But what is money? 11 00:01:26,378 --> 00:01:28,505 In short, money is trust. 12 00:01:29,172 --> 00:01:31,133 A shared belief of common value. 13 00:01:32,092 --> 00:01:34,344 But trust is a fragile thing. 14 00:01:35,095 --> 00:01:37,139 It can be shattered in an instant. 15 00:01:37,723 --> 00:01:40,642 For example, this is not Mesopotamia. 16 00:01:41,184 --> 00:01:44,354 It's West Texas, just a few hours from where I grew up. 17 00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:52,404 This is a film about a thing called cryptocurrency. 18 00:01:53,572 --> 00:01:54,740 It's pretty stupid. 19 00:01:59,703 --> 00:02:00,828 - Did we get it? - Yeah. 20 00:02:00,829 --> 00:02:01,663 Great. 21 00:02:53,965 --> 00:02:57,343 [V.O.] To understand my journey into the wilds of cryptocurrency, 22 00:02:57,344 --> 00:03:00,304 we have to go way back to my humble beginnings 23 00:03:00,305 --> 00:03:01,931 when I was a budding young actor. 24 00:03:01,932 --> 00:03:05,351 - All right, my next guest stars on the hit Fox series, The O.C. 25 00:03:05,352 --> 00:03:07,020 Please welcome Ben McKenzie. 26 00:03:08,939 --> 00:03:11,941 [V.O.] At the age of 24, my career started off with a bang 27 00:03:11,942 --> 00:03:13,859 when I was cast as Ryan Atwood, 28 00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:16,196 the brooding bad boy on The O.C. 29 00:03:16,947 --> 00:03:17,989 - Who are you? 30 00:03:18,699 --> 00:03:21,368 - Whoever you want me to be. 31 00:03:21,493 --> 00:03:24,078 [V.O.] I was tough as nails and soft as butter, 32 00:03:24,079 --> 00:03:25,621 a real teenage heartthrob. 33 00:03:25,622 --> 00:03:26,706 - You are the It guy. 34 00:03:26,707 --> 00:03:27,957 You're, like, all over the place 35 00:03:27,958 --> 00:03:30,876 on the cover of TV Guide and YM, 36 00:03:30,877 --> 00:03:31,920 or is it pronounced you y-m? 37 00:03:33,338 --> 00:03:36,799 [V.O.] When it finished, I moved on to the gritty cop drama Southland. 38 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,968 - Southland is a terrific show. 39 00:03:38,969 --> 00:03:41,929 But I'm curious, do you still get fans of the O.C. 40 00:03:41,930 --> 00:03:43,140 that come up to you? 41 00:03:43,014 --> 00:03:45,267 - You were a teen heartthrob on the O.C. 42 00:03:45,392 --> 00:03:46,851 - We gotta talk about the O.C. a little bit. 43 00:03:46,852 --> 00:03:48,228 - Okay. 44 00:03:47,853 --> 00:03:50,480 [V.O.] Alright, so I was still sort of that guy from the O.C. 45 00:03:50,814 --> 00:03:55,317 But then, everything changed when I joined the Batman universe. 46 00:03:55,318 --> 00:03:58,362 - Many of us remember Ben McKenzie from the O.C. 47 00:03:58,363 --> 00:03:59,906 - Good morning, guys. How are you? 48 00:03:59,531 --> 00:04:02,659 - I just have to wait one second and say I loved you in the O.C. 49 00:04:03,326 --> 00:04:05,536 - And looking back at the O.C., and then... 50 00:04:05,537 --> 00:04:09,332 [V.O.] While the rest of the world was stuck in 2003, I was moving on. 51 00:04:10,375 --> 00:04:11,376 Well, sort of. 52 00:04:13,003 --> 00:04:15,297 Smashing bad guys was fucking awesome. 53 00:04:15,714 --> 00:04:17,966 And I even met the love of my life on the show. 54 00:04:20,552 --> 00:04:23,263 But still, I was itching for something new. 55 00:04:23,847 --> 00:04:26,016 And then, right on cue, 56 00:04:27,768 --> 00:04:28,894 COVID hit. 57 00:04:28,769 --> 00:04:30,771 - You've got to be putting that disinfectant 58 00:04:30,896 --> 00:04:34,191 on these groceries, making sure that you're scrubbing them. 59 00:04:35,192 --> 00:04:37,359 [V.O.] Holed up without work or direction, 60 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,820 I went a little stir-crazy. 61 00:04:40,363 --> 00:04:43,365 So when my buddy Dave asked to catch up via Zoom, 62 00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:44,826 it was a welcome reprieve. 63 00:04:46,661 --> 00:04:49,706 As fate would have it, it turned out to be just the thing I needed. 64 00:04:51,625 --> 00:04:53,960 Why are you in your kid's bedroom? 65 00:04:54,294 --> 00:04:56,128 - It's the only safe place, Ben. 66 00:04:56,129 --> 00:04:57,755 It's the only place I can go. 67 00:04:57,756 --> 00:04:59,841 [V.O.] Dave is a good friend from college. 68 00:05:00,342 --> 00:05:03,512 He has also given me the worst financial advice of my life. 69 00:05:04,763 --> 00:05:08,308 When I was in my 20s and flush with cash from TV, 70 00:05:08,683 --> 00:05:12,270 Dave encouraged me to buy stock in an obscure medical technology company. 71 00:05:13,146 --> 00:05:15,565 They were going to make a fortune, Dave told me. 72 00:05:15,774 --> 00:05:18,735 He had been at a wedding, and some random guy assured him so. 73 00:05:19,778 --> 00:05:22,531 I was young and dumb and excited by his excitement. 74 00:05:22,781 --> 00:05:24,574 So, I put $10,000 into it. 75 00:05:25,242 --> 00:05:27,201 In less than a year the stock tanked, 76 00:05:27,202 --> 00:05:29,162 and I lost almost all my money. 77 00:05:29,746 --> 00:05:31,665 So when Dave brought up Bitcoin, 78 00:05:31,915 --> 00:05:33,542 my skepticism was high. 79 00:05:34,084 --> 00:05:36,043 - You know what's taken off is Bitcoin. 80 00:05:36,044 --> 00:05:37,169 Have you looked at that? 81 00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:38,712 I don't even know what the fuck it is. 82 00:05:38,713 --> 00:05:40,548 - I guess a digital currency. 83 00:05:40,549 --> 00:05:41,882 A cryptocurrency. 84 00:05:41,883 --> 00:05:43,175 - It's money. - It's money. 85 00:05:43,176 --> 00:05:44,761 It's a cryptocurrency. 86 00:05:45,262 --> 00:05:46,512 Stop saying fucking cryptocurrency. 87 00:05:46,513 --> 00:05:47,806 I don't know what the fuck that means. 88 00:05:47,514 --> 00:05:49,391 - What is this like? What is this, like, look? 89 00:05:49,516 --> 00:05:50,600 What are you like-- 90 00:05:50,433 --> 00:05:51,726 - I don't know if you know this about me. 91 00:05:52,936 --> 00:05:54,186 - Oh, enlighten me. 92 00:05:54,187 --> 00:05:55,438 I was great at Economics. 93 00:05:56,565 --> 00:05:59,025 - Have we vetted that, by the way? Do you actually have a degree? 94 00:05:59,234 --> 00:06:00,235 Yes! 95 00:06:00,443 --> 00:06:02,361 - Alright. Well, I mean, I don't know. 96 00:06:02,362 --> 00:06:03,988 You're a pretty good actor. How do I know? 97 00:06:03,989 --> 00:06:05,448 Whoa! Go back to that. 98 00:06:07,701 --> 00:06:10,120 [V.O.] If Dave's prior advice had taught me anything, 99 00:06:10,787 --> 00:06:12,246 it was that you should never invest 100 00:06:12,247 --> 00:06:13,540 in something you don't understand. 101 00:06:14,833 --> 00:06:17,376 Plus, I have a degree in economics. 102 00:06:17,377 --> 00:06:19,588 Surely I can figure out this crypto stuff. 103 00:06:22,465 --> 00:06:23,508 No problem. 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,553 - Bitcoin. It's a new form of electronic money. 105 00:06:27,470 --> 00:06:28,971 You know how email 106 00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:31,474 changed old fashioned mail forever? 107 00:06:31,850 --> 00:06:34,894 - Yes. - Well, Bitcoin is changing money 108 00:06:34,895 --> 00:06:36,104 forever. 109 00:06:36,021 --> 00:06:38,607 - So that is essentially what a hard fork is, 110 00:06:38,732 --> 00:06:41,400 but there is also something called a soft fork. 111 00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:43,819 - No banks, no fees, no inflation. 112 00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:48,115 These are the potential perks of this thing called Bitcoin. 113 00:06:48,116 --> 00:06:50,951 - What is a blockchain system where you 114 00:06:50,952 --> 00:06:53,579 have this kind of one virtual computer created by... 115 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:55,581 - Bitcoin is brilliant. 116 00:06:55,582 --> 00:06:58,792 [V.O.] The Bitcoin gospel is that it will revolutionize the world. 117 00:06:58,793 --> 00:07:00,336 - Electronic gold. 118 00:07:00,337 --> 00:07:03,422 [V.O.] Because it is the answer to our broken financial system. 119 00:07:03,423 --> 00:07:06,134 - Intricately thought out, cunning and multifaceted. 120 00:07:06,468 --> 00:07:08,469 - If you love Freedom, buy Bitcoin. 121 00:07:08,470 --> 00:07:09,553 Are you serious? 122 00:07:09,554 --> 00:07:10,847 - Are you serious? 123 00:07:12,849 --> 00:07:14,975 The Bitcoin story is really powerful, 124 00:07:14,976 --> 00:07:17,020 because we all agree on its premise. 125 00:07:17,145 --> 00:07:18,688 Our current system sucks. 126 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,362 Remember back in 2008 when the banks and mortgage lenders 127 00:07:26,363 --> 00:07:28,782 got greedy and crashed the housing market? 128 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:32,451 After all was said and done, the banks got a slap on the wrist. 129 00:07:32,452 --> 00:07:33,870 Some even got bailouts. 130 00:07:33,578 --> 00:07:36,873 - Wall Street applauded the biggest government bailout ever. 131 00:07:36,998 --> 00:07:40,168 - Up to $700 billion taxpayer dollars on the line 132 00:07:40,418 --> 00:07:43,380 to purchase troubled assets that are clogging the financial system. 133 00:07:43,546 --> 00:07:46,424 [V.O.] Meanwhile, everyday Americans received no bailout, 134 00:07:47,008 --> 00:07:49,052 and far too many lost their homes. 135 00:07:49,636 --> 00:07:52,054 People felt betrayed, and for good reason. 136 00:07:52,055 --> 00:07:54,557 Their trust in the mainstream financial system 137 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:56,226 had been shattered. 138 00:07:56,393 --> 00:07:57,977 - Corporate greed is everywhere. 139 00:07:57,978 --> 00:08:00,813 - Wall Street got bailed out, and we all got sold out. 140 00:08:00,814 --> 00:08:02,107 Let's tell the truth! 141 00:08:02,023 --> 00:08:05,610 [V.O.] And it was out of this breakdown that Bitcoin was born. 142 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:10,489 Someone, or some people, 143 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:12,783 calling themselves Satoshi Nakamoto 144 00:08:12,784 --> 00:08:14,452 created the code for Bitcoin. 145 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:20,874 There could only be 21 million Bitcoin ever made, 146 00:08:20,875 --> 00:08:22,961 and no one had control over it. 147 00:08:24,212 --> 00:08:26,046 - The Bitcoin phenomenon is 148 00:08:26,047 --> 00:08:29,258 trying to take control of money away from the state 149 00:08:29,259 --> 00:08:31,052 and return it to individuals. 150 00:08:32,053 --> 00:08:33,762 - You have an option to trust code, 151 00:08:33,763 --> 00:08:36,765 so we don't have to trust centralized intermediaries. 152 00:08:36,766 --> 00:08:39,518 - And so when I specifically buy Bitcoin, 153 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:41,603 I'm using my own personal capital 154 00:08:41,604 --> 00:08:43,355 to prop up and support 155 00:08:43,356 --> 00:08:45,190 the emergence of something that 156 00:08:45,191 --> 00:08:47,652 would rip apart the existing financial system. 157 00:08:48,737 --> 00:08:50,905 And if it does, God bless it. 158 00:08:51,031 --> 00:08:52,365 [V.O.] In theory, 159 00:08:52,073 --> 00:08:55,285 Bitcoin sounded like a promising solution to the status quo. 160 00:08:55,785 --> 00:08:57,454 But I had a few questions. 161 00:08:57,871 --> 00:08:59,872 How could Bitcoin work as a currency 162 00:08:59,873 --> 00:09:03,334 if its price was ping-ponging wildly up and down day to day? 163 00:09:04,085 --> 00:09:05,587 - It's pretty incredible. 164 00:09:05,128 --> 00:09:08,965 I mean, Friday, Bitcoin was trading at, what, almost $42,000, 165 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:12,426 and now we're down to about $31,000 and change right now, 166 00:09:12,427 --> 00:09:14,470 why the tumults over the weekend? 167 00:09:14,471 --> 00:09:17,974 [V.O.] And why did i feel like I was being herded into a quasi-cult? 168 00:09:18,349 --> 00:09:20,851 - You have the saying that there's no free money, 169 00:09:20,852 --> 00:09:22,186 there's no free lunch. 170 00:09:22,187 --> 00:09:23,979 Well, in crypto, there's a lot of free lunch. 171 00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:27,441 - Question ask yourself is which side of history do you want to be on? 172 00:09:27,442 --> 00:09:29,610 - I mean, I'm eating free lunch here everyday. 173 00:09:29,611 --> 00:09:31,445 [V.O.] Just because there's a finite amount of something 174 00:09:31,446 --> 00:09:33,448 doesn't mean it's inherently valuable. 175 00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:37,242 That's my econ degree talking. 176 00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:39,495 But when i really boiled it down, 177 00:09:39,496 --> 00:09:40,955 I just didn't trust it. 178 00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:44,709 It had the feeling of a generational hallucination. 179 00:09:46,252 --> 00:09:48,337 - Take all your money, buy Bitcoin. 180 00:09:48,338 --> 00:09:50,673 Go mortgage your house and buy Bitcoin. 181 00:09:51,049 --> 00:09:53,259 Nothing else matters. 182 00:09:55,011 --> 00:09:56,513 And that's when I saw it. 183 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,933 The crypto commercial that would haunt my dreams. 184 00:10:01,518 --> 00:10:04,687 - History is filled with "almosts." 185 00:10:05,438 --> 00:10:09,609 With those who almost adventured, who almost achieved, 186 00:10:09,818 --> 00:10:11,069 but ultimately, 187 00:10:11,486 --> 00:10:13,530 for them it proved to be too much. 188 00:10:13,738 --> 00:10:19,077 And in these moments of truth, these mere mortals, 189 00:10:19,661 --> 00:10:21,162 they calm their minds 190 00:10:22,372 --> 00:10:24,415 and steel their nerves 191 00:10:24,541 --> 00:10:26,209 with four simple words, 192 00:10:26,376 --> 00:10:28,628 Fortune favors the brave. 193 00:10:34,217 --> 00:10:35,969 - I mean, what the fuck? 194 00:10:36,177 --> 00:10:39,264 What the fuck does Matt Damon know about cryptocurrency? 195 00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:40,682 Nothing! 196 00:10:40,890 --> 00:10:42,599 Are you mad at him for this, 197 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,186 or because he's more famous than you are? 198 00:10:48,064 --> 00:10:49,399 He might be taller, too. 199 00:10:49,566 --> 00:10:51,025 He's not taller than me. 200 00:10:51,734 --> 00:10:54,361 Alright, so it says he's 5 '10", but... 201 00:10:54,362 --> 00:10:55,196 Mmm, not sure. 202 00:10:55,738 --> 00:10:57,407 I also say I'm 5 '10". 203 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:00,325 [V.O.] It wasn't just Damon. 204 00:11:00,326 --> 00:11:02,452 A bunch of other yahoos got in on the act. 205 00:11:02,453 --> 00:11:03,746 - I'm all in. Are you? 206 00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:05,665 - You know what? 207 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,001 - I'm in. - Oh, I'm in, bro. 208 00:11:08,209 --> 00:11:09,418 [V.O.] Now, here's the thing. 209 00:11:09,419 --> 00:11:11,421 Celebrities have always shilled products, 210 00:11:11,588 --> 00:11:13,463 ever since there have been celebrities. 211 00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:15,048 Even my wife has done it. 212 00:11:15,049 --> 00:11:16,342 There's nothing wrong with that. 213 00:11:16,843 --> 00:11:20,096 But this isn't a sandwich or skin cream. 214 00:11:20,430 --> 00:11:21,890 This was a financial product. 215 00:11:22,015 --> 00:11:24,142 - Crypto will really be the future. 216 00:11:24,267 --> 00:11:26,602 [V.O.] If you aren't a licensed financial advisor, 217 00:11:26,603 --> 00:11:29,188 you're not supposed to offer people financial advice. 218 00:11:29,189 --> 00:11:30,647 It's literally illegal. 219 00:11:30,648 --> 00:11:32,524 - It's the new wave. It's what everybody's doing. 220 00:11:32,525 --> 00:11:35,277 [V.O.] As an actor, I'm a professional bullshitter. 221 00:11:35,278 --> 00:11:36,528 - Eh, I don't think so. 222 00:11:36,529 --> 00:11:37,905 [V.O.] And my gut told me, 223 00:11:37,906 --> 00:11:40,991 the guys selling people on crypto were full of it. 224 00:11:40,992 --> 00:11:44,579 - It's a cryptocurrency you can trade for conventional money. 225 00:11:44,829 --> 00:11:47,080 - Oh, so it's a hustle. 226 00:11:47,081 --> 00:11:48,707 - Yeah, it's a hustle. 227 00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:50,293 - Why didn't you say that, man? 228 00:11:52,128 --> 00:11:53,713 - To the moon! 229 00:11:54,589 --> 00:11:56,798 [V.O.] Up against a multi-trillion dollar industry 230 00:11:56,799 --> 00:11:59,135 shilled by every celebrity on the planet, 231 00:11:59,969 --> 00:12:02,889 I did what any other actor would do in my position. 232 00:12:08,645 --> 00:12:10,145 I hired a film crew. 233 00:12:10,146 --> 00:12:12,649 - This is Giorgio, he's gonna be filming me. 234 00:12:14,067 --> 00:12:16,653 Is he-- Is he gonna film? 235 00:12:16,861 --> 00:12:19,655 He's gonna film, yeah. He's gonna make a movie. 236 00:12:19,656 --> 00:12:21,531 You wanna be in a movie? - Yes. 237 00:12:21,532 --> 00:12:23,743 - Ok. - Go! 238 00:12:25,828 --> 00:12:27,622 What's this thing? 239 00:12:27,830 --> 00:12:29,248 It's a lens. 240 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:31,000 I have my ball. 241 00:12:31,542 --> 00:12:33,001 Ooh, that's a nice ball. 242 00:12:33,002 --> 00:12:34,003 It feels like... 243 00:12:35,421 --> 00:12:36,547 Strawberry. 244 00:12:36,965 --> 00:12:39,007 Oh, it's a checker. 245 00:12:39,008 --> 00:12:40,259 Whoa-ho-ho! 246 00:12:40,260 --> 00:12:41,844 Yeah! Yeah! 247 00:12:42,428 --> 00:12:44,263 I think they're coming downstairs. 248 00:12:44,264 --> 00:12:46,182 Let's go say hi to Mama and Juju. 249 00:12:46,849 --> 00:12:48,184 No. 250 00:12:47,767 --> 00:12:49,435 Yeah, we're gonna go tell them that we're making a movie. 251 00:12:50,728 --> 00:12:54,648 We're excited to watch a movie here. 252 00:12:54,649 --> 00:12:55,608 This is Giorgio. 253 00:12:56,109 --> 00:12:57,276 - Hello. - Hi. 254 00:12:57,277 --> 00:12:58,528 Nice to meet you. 255 00:12:59,237 --> 00:13:01,196 I'm sorry, what's going on? 256 00:13:01,197 --> 00:13:02,657 We're just gonna film it. 257 00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:03,907 Okay. 258 00:13:03,908 --> 00:13:05,325 He'll be quiet, we promise. 259 00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:06,619 Georgio is very nice. 260 00:13:08,204 --> 00:13:10,498 Heads up, did you talk to my agent yet? 261 00:13:12,875 --> 00:13:15,295 Alright Arthur, I'm putting cheese on your pasta, okay? 262 00:13:15,795 --> 00:13:18,380 Do you want cheese on your pasta? Do you want to put it on? 263 00:13:18,381 --> 00:13:20,842 Guys, Georgio is gonna be with us for like the next... 264 00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:24,512 undetermined one to twelve months. 265 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:27,514 Is everyone clear on what I'm doing? 266 00:13:27,515 --> 00:13:28,974 - Do you guys know what I'm doing? - Oh yeah! 267 00:13:28,975 --> 00:13:31,018 I'm making... What? What am I doing? 268 00:13:31,019 --> 00:13:34,062 You're trying to make fun of everybody that uses cryptocurrency. 269 00:13:34,063 --> 00:13:35,523 Yeah, that's pretty much it. 270 00:13:35,898 --> 00:13:38,818 So, I was sneaking Cheetos in class, 271 00:13:39,068 --> 00:13:42,321 but then I got Cheeto-fingers and I rubbed my eyes, 272 00:13:42,322 --> 00:13:44,699 and my eyes were burning hot all throughout class. 273 00:13:55,168 --> 00:13:56,044 To me. 274 00:14:00,715 --> 00:14:02,674 [V.O.] To develop a deeper understanding 275 00:14:02,675 --> 00:14:04,217 of crypto's true believers, 276 00:14:04,218 --> 00:14:06,304 I needed to observe them in the wild. 277 00:14:06,512 --> 00:14:09,182 Fittingly enough, they were gathered in Miami. 278 00:14:16,064 --> 00:14:17,606 - Tens of thousands of people are heading 279 00:14:17,607 --> 00:14:19,484 to Miami this weekend for what's being called 280 00:14:19,609 --> 00:14:22,779 the largest cryptocurrency conference in history. 281 00:14:23,780 --> 00:14:25,740 I'm getting a nice shot at no balls, right? 282 00:14:29,577 --> 00:14:31,203 [V.O.] The Bitcoin Conference in Miami 283 00:14:31,204 --> 00:14:33,038 claimed to be the largest in the world. 284 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,083 50,000 people were expected to attend. 285 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:37,542 I wanted to see Bitcoin in action, 286 00:14:37,543 --> 00:14:39,796 and this seemed like the perfect place to do it. 287 00:14:40,046 --> 00:14:41,129 - Matt Damon? 288 00:14:41,130 --> 00:14:42,757 Matt Damon? 289 00:14:42,882 --> 00:14:44,549 Sorry, have you seen Matt Damon? 290 00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:47,553 [V.O.] But first, this Austin boy wanted to have some fun. 291 00:14:48,262 --> 00:14:51,140 - Don't worry, folks, I'm from Texas. I know what I'm doing. 292 00:14:51,766 --> 00:14:52,642 Oh! 293 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:53,768 Oh! 294 00:14:54,435 --> 00:14:55,436 Oh! 295 00:14:56,229 --> 00:14:57,438 Oh! 296 00:14:57,563 --> 00:14:59,816 Oh-oh! 297 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:02,776 Hey, we can edit that, right? 298 00:15:02,777 --> 00:15:04,153 That's fine. It's fine. 299 00:15:05,238 --> 00:15:06,447 Oh, Starry Night. 300 00:15:07,407 --> 00:15:08,533 The original. 301 00:15:09,784 --> 00:15:12,077 Ah, there we go. American beer. 302 00:15:12,078 --> 00:15:14,497 And I can pay in Bitcoin? 303 00:15:15,081 --> 00:15:18,208 Right now, sir, we're using only the credit card. 304 00:15:18,209 --> 00:15:21,129 We used to have the Bitcoin, but it's not working at this time. 305 00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:22,171 It's not working? 306 00:15:22,296 --> 00:15:23,713 - Oh, is this your art? - Yes, sir. 307 00:15:23,714 --> 00:15:24,799 Oh, hey, man. How are you? 308 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:26,134 Bitcoin fucking money. 309 00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:27,926 Bitcoin shitting money. 310 00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:29,636 Bitcoin fucking money. 311 00:15:29,637 --> 00:15:31,972 Bitcoin shitting money. Okay, got it. 312 00:15:31,973 --> 00:15:34,349 - Yeah, I'm really sorry for that. - That's alright. That's alright. 313 00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:36,601 I think I can use regular real money. 314 00:15:36,602 --> 00:15:38,061 - Yes. - Alright. 315 00:15:38,062 --> 00:15:39,646 I'm starting my own coin. It's called BenCoin. 316 00:15:39,647 --> 00:15:41,149 What if I paid you in BenCoin? 317 00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:43,025 So I can cash it out. 318 00:15:43,484 --> 00:15:44,819 There we go, right? 319 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:47,028 Yeah, yeah, I mean, you got to get in early with the future. 320 00:15:47,029 --> 00:15:49,532 - Exactly. - Otherwise, it'll pass you by. 321 00:15:49,907 --> 00:15:52,367 Does it ever feel like a little bit like a cult to you? 322 00:15:52,368 --> 00:15:54,287 Just like flaming eyeball shit? 323 00:15:54,412 --> 00:15:57,790 - It's like Game of Thrones shit. - It's like Game of Thrones shit! 324 00:15:58,207 --> 00:16:01,334 I tried to buy my beer in Bitcoin, and it didn't really work. 325 00:16:01,335 --> 00:16:03,211 - That's true. - No, it didn't over there. 326 00:16:03,212 --> 00:16:04,337 They were having some problem. 327 00:16:04,338 --> 00:16:05,922 - Gotcha. Gotcha, - Does it take time? 328 00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:07,800 Like 20 minutes. 329 00:16:07,925 --> 00:16:10,511 - To go- to process a transaction? - Yeah. 330 00:16:10,678 --> 00:16:13,723 [V.O.] I was having a hard time seeing the advantages of Bitcoin. 331 00:16:14,265 --> 00:16:16,225 But then I met an unlikely fan. 332 00:16:17,143 --> 00:16:18,560 His name was Alex, 333 00:16:18,561 --> 00:16:20,896 and he worked for the Human Rights Foundation. 334 00:16:20,897 --> 00:16:22,439 There's like tens of millions of people 335 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,357 in emerging market countries that use this thing, 336 00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:26,651 because it's the best option they have. 337 00:16:26,652 --> 00:16:28,320 Money, finance, economics, 338 00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:30,780 was hardly ever a part of the human rights discourse. 339 00:16:30,781 --> 00:16:32,116 But when you actually ask 340 00:16:31,991 --> 00:16:33,910 human rights activists from different countries about money, 341 00:16:34,035 --> 00:16:35,535 they always have crazy stories. 342 00:16:35,536 --> 00:16:38,497 Demonetization, devaluation, hyperinflation, frozen bank accounts. 343 00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:40,416 So this is a way for them to break free. 344 00:16:40,791 --> 00:16:43,335 All these people are getting into this thing because the numbers go up, 345 00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:46,296 it's like this Trojan horse, but in reality, like inside, 346 00:16:46,297 --> 00:16:47,547 is freedom go up. 347 00:16:47,548 --> 00:16:49,674 [V.O.] Alex made a compelling point. 348 00:16:49,675 --> 00:16:52,177 Maybe Bitcoin could be a tool for good. 349 00:16:52,178 --> 00:16:55,097 But then I thought about its wildly fluctuating price. 350 00:16:56,474 --> 00:16:58,391 What if all these people in developing countries 351 00:16:58,392 --> 00:17:00,478 bought in and Bitcoin's price... 352 00:17:00,978 --> 00:17:02,021 crashed? 353 00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:06,942 Bitcoin's what, $44,000? 354 00:17:06,943 --> 00:17:08,861 Wasn't it $48,000 like yesterday? 355 00:17:09,195 --> 00:17:11,530 Was that the day before? How much was it? 356 00:17:11,531 --> 00:17:13,824 Well, five years ago, it was... it was... 357 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:16,202 But like yesterday, it was $47,000 and now it's forty-- 358 00:17:16,327 --> 00:17:17,536 What is it today? $43,000? 359 00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:19,539 I don't know. I think it's $44,000. 360 00:17:20,957 --> 00:17:23,042 The important thing is... 361 00:17:24,502 --> 00:17:25,627 Uh... 362 00:17:25,628 --> 00:17:28,255 Two years ago, it was $4,000. 363 00:17:28,256 --> 00:17:30,507 So, the important thing to remember is that over time this thing gets-- 364 00:17:30,508 --> 00:17:32,300 - $43,000 today. - Right. 365 00:17:32,301 --> 00:17:35,136 So in 2020, in April, it was $4,000. 366 00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:38,683 So, the important thing is that-- it over time-- it gets more valuable. 367 00:17:39,267 --> 00:17:41,351 [V.O.] It just didn't make sense to me. 368 00:17:41,352 --> 00:17:43,979 But Alex assured me the argument was bigger than price. 369 00:17:43,980 --> 00:17:46,022 This is about separation of money and state. 370 00:17:46,023 --> 00:17:47,983 It's making a huge difference around the world. 371 00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:50,694 I think every country should have Bitcoin as legal tender 372 00:17:50,695 --> 00:17:54,490 to transact, earn income, pay taxes, whatever. 373 00:17:54,824 --> 00:17:57,325 [V.O.] Could the crypto utopia that Alex described 374 00:17:57,326 --> 00:17:58,494 exist in real life? 375 00:17:59,537 --> 00:18:02,707 After some intense research, I found an answer. 376 00:18:06,877 --> 00:18:09,088 - El Salvador. 377 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,634 This look represents El Salvador's history of currency. 378 00:18:14,635 --> 00:18:18,388 For a long time, coco was used, and then the cologne, 379 00:18:18,389 --> 00:18:21,141 until it was replaced by the U.S. dollar. 380 00:18:21,142 --> 00:18:24,644 In 2021, El Salvador became the first country in the world. 381 00:18:24,645 --> 00:18:27,440 to use bitcoin as legal tender. 382 00:18:28,107 --> 00:18:33,863 You don't need a dash to walk around dressed in cash like El Salvador. 383 00:18:34,196 --> 00:18:36,115 If I bought that for you, would you wear it? 384 00:18:39,994 --> 00:18:41,871 So, why do you need to go there? 385 00:18:42,330 --> 00:18:45,708 Because... they're trying to use Bitcoin as money. 386 00:18:46,417 --> 00:18:47,959 Well, is it safe? 387 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,087 It's totally safe. Hold on a second. 388 00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:55,384 It says it has one of the highest murder rates in the world. 389 00:18:55,718 --> 00:18:58,763 No, it used to have the highest murder rate in the world. 390 00:18:59,555 --> 00:19:01,390 Now... 391 00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:05,269 now it has the highest incarceration rate. 392 00:19:06,562 --> 00:19:09,439 So it's totally safe, 393 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,942 plus, you know, I speak excellent Spanish. 394 00:19:12,943 --> 00:19:15,695 [Spanish] This gringo is going to get fucking killed. 395 00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:18,616 Oh, my God. 396 00:19:18,741 --> 00:19:21,369 [Spanish] This gringo is going to get fuck... 397 00:19:23,204 --> 00:19:24,830 Why am I laughing? 398 00:19:24,955 --> 00:19:27,291 - Glad you think it's funny. - Oh my god! 399 00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:31,211 - Gangs turned El Salvador's murder rate 400 00:19:31,212 --> 00:19:32,963 into one of the highest in the world. 401 00:19:33,089 --> 00:19:35,591 - Some 75,000 people have been arrested. 402 00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:38,593 - People can also face 15 years in prison, 403 00:19:38,594 --> 00:19:41,180 and this applies to journalists, too. 404 00:19:41,555 --> 00:19:45,016 [Spanish] Thank you for flying with Avianca, the sky belongs to everyone. 405 00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:47,311 You're saying hello to El Salvador another time, we promise. 406 00:19:52,066 --> 00:19:55,403 - They seem to be giving Ben a hard time. 407 00:19:56,612 --> 00:19:58,823 - This dude just called for his supervisor. 408 00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:00,991 Oh. 409 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,745 They just want his picture. 410 00:20:05,955 --> 00:20:07,331 God bless the OC. 411 00:20:15,381 --> 00:20:16,465 What's up, dude? 412 00:20:18,968 --> 00:20:20,969 Shit, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. 413 00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:22,596 Ah, guess where I am? 414 00:20:23,723 --> 00:20:26,933 - Um, something tells me you're not in Wisconsin. 415 00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:29,894 I'm not in Wisconsin. I'm in El Salvador. 416 00:20:29,895 --> 00:20:31,313 Can you guess why? 417 00:20:32,398 --> 00:20:36,277 - What the hell? Yes, why? I want to hear you say it. 418 00:20:36,402 --> 00:20:38,446 Bitcoin, baby, Bitcoin. 419 00:20:41,782 --> 00:20:43,867 Dude, you can't make this shit up. 420 00:20:43,868 --> 00:20:44,994 - What are you doing? 421 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,620 What are you doing with your life? 422 00:20:48,581 --> 00:20:49,707 I don't know. 423 00:20:53,335 --> 00:20:54,712 It's the honest to God answer. 424 00:20:57,047 --> 00:20:58,256 [V.O.] In 2019, 425 00:20:58,257 --> 00:21:00,133 a former advertising executive named 426 00:21:00,134 --> 00:21:03,511 Nayib Bukele shocked the political establishment 427 00:21:03,512 --> 00:21:05,765 when he was elected president of El Salvador. 428 00:21:06,348 --> 00:21:09,768 The crypto bro Prez changed his Twitter handle to 429 00:21:09,769 --> 00:21:11,687 The Coolest Dictator in The World 430 00:21:12,188 --> 00:21:14,940 and bragged about casually buying Bitcoin 431 00:21:15,191 --> 00:21:16,733 using the state treasury 432 00:21:16,734 --> 00:21:18,194 while sitting on the toilet. 433 00:21:18,861 --> 00:21:21,279 Bukele sold a bold vision of the country, 434 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,033 as a revolutionary Bitcoin Switzerland 435 00:21:25,743 --> 00:21:27,745 that would attract worldwide attention. 436 00:21:28,162 --> 00:21:29,497 - Mr. President, thanks for joining us. 437 00:21:29,705 --> 00:21:31,122 - Thank you, Tucker, for inviting me. 438 00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:32,373 - We're not condoning every single thing 439 00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:34,126 the El Salvadoran government has ever done. 440 00:21:34,251 --> 00:21:36,795 I just think that them adopting Bitcoin is one of the best things 441 00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:38,547 that you could possibly do for the nation. 442 00:21:39,924 --> 00:21:41,466 [V.O.] I wanted to see how much Bitcoin 443 00:21:41,467 --> 00:21:43,302 had changed life in El Salvador. 444 00:21:48,057 --> 00:21:49,642 It was time to go shopping. 445 00:21:53,646 --> 00:21:55,648 [Spanish] Do you take Bitcoin? 446 00:21:56,816 --> 00:21:58,901 [Spanish] Bitcoin? Do you take it? No. No. 447 00:21:59,527 --> 00:22:01,278 [Spanish] Do you take Bitcoins? 448 00:22:01,529 --> 00:22:04,073 - [Spanish] No. - [Spanish] Bitcoin? No. 449 00:22:04,198 --> 00:22:06,534 [Spanish] Do you take Bitcoin? 450 00:22:06,659 --> 00:22:08,117 [Spanish] Bitcoin? No. 451 00:22:08,118 --> 00:22:09,786 Ah, Ok. I thought for a second... Ok. 452 00:22:09,787 --> 00:22:11,580 [Spanish] Do you take Bitcoin? 453 00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:13,874 - [Spanish] No. - [Spanish] No Bitcoin. 454 00:22:14,416 --> 00:22:16,210 [Spanish] Do you take Bitcoin? 455 00:22:18,587 --> 00:22:20,339 [Spanish] Do you take Bitcoin? 456 00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:22,174 [Spanish] No. 457 00:22:24,009 --> 00:22:25,802 [V.O.] The marketplace was a bust, 458 00:22:25,803 --> 00:22:29,472 but there was another prong in Bukele's Bitcoin revolution. 459 00:22:29,473 --> 00:22:33,309 He claimed Bitcoin would save his citizens millions in remittance fees 460 00:22:33,310 --> 00:22:36,021 when sending or receiving money from overseas. 461 00:22:37,273 --> 00:22:40,024 It was a common argument for pro-Bitcoiners. 462 00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:42,110 - I think what a lot of people don't understand in the United States 463 00:22:42,111 --> 00:22:45,154 is that a lot of people live in countries and work in countries 464 00:22:45,155 --> 00:22:46,990 and they have to send money home. 465 00:22:46,991 --> 00:22:50,869 A lot of it's cross-border, and that transaction fee in and of itself, 466 00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:54,163 transferring money, can run you 10%. 467 00:22:54,164 --> 00:22:57,250 [V.O.] Nice idea, but reality painted a different picture. 468 00:22:57,251 --> 00:22:59,002 According to the government's own figures, 469 00:22:59,003 --> 00:23:02,673 just 1.6% of remittances were paid using Bitcoin. 470 00:23:06,844 --> 00:23:10,180 But Bukele, ever the salesman, refused to concede defeat. 471 00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:11,599 Instead, 472 00:23:11,974 --> 00:23:13,142 he went bigger. 473 00:23:29,074 --> 00:23:31,619 - So we were thinking of building... 474 00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:35,039 Bitcoin City. 475 00:23:38,542 --> 00:23:40,877 [V.O.] In November 2021, Bukele announced 476 00:23:40,878 --> 00:23:42,546 what he called Bitcoin City, 477 00:23:43,464 --> 00:23:46,634 a tax-free paradise for coiners in eastern El Salvador. 478 00:23:46,967 --> 00:23:51,013 The showpiece city would be built in the shadows of Conchagua Volcano. 479 00:23:51,305 --> 00:23:56,060 - This is a fully, fully ecological city and it's energized 480 00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:57,894 by a volcano. 481 00:23:57,895 --> 00:24:00,147 [V.O.] Bukele loved the volcano. 482 00:24:00,397 --> 00:24:01,565 - The volcano. 483 00:24:06,195 --> 00:24:09,030 [V.O.] Since I was already in the country, I figured, what the hell, 484 00:24:09,031 --> 00:24:10,616 might as well check it out. 485 00:24:20,709 --> 00:24:23,127 We drove more than 100 miles to La Union, 486 00:24:23,128 --> 00:24:24,713 on the eastern edge of the country. 487 00:24:25,798 --> 00:24:28,257 What we found was a sleepy fishing village, 488 00:24:28,258 --> 00:24:30,843 and almost no evidence of any actual development 489 00:24:30,844 --> 00:24:32,638 of this supposed City of Gold. 490 00:24:34,139 --> 00:24:36,642 We did, however, meet a guy named Corbin. 491 00:24:37,184 --> 00:24:39,686 - This is the perfect location for that dream and vision, 492 00:24:39,687 --> 00:24:42,398 and this is where I want to be for that reason of 493 00:24:42,648 --> 00:24:46,443 being the first resident citizen of Bitcoin City. 494 00:24:47,403 --> 00:24:49,570 I'm an industrial designer. 495 00:24:49,571 --> 00:24:52,700 I've had hundreds of jobs and a few careers in there. 496 00:24:53,242 --> 00:24:56,869 In all that time, I'm asking the question of what is money? 497 00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:59,623 Where is it coming from? Who's in control of it? 498 00:25:00,624 --> 00:25:04,169 Bitcoin isn't just a vehicle for me to make money. 499 00:25:04,294 --> 00:25:05,629 It's freedom. 500 00:25:07,047 --> 00:25:08,632 One man, 501 00:25:08,757 --> 00:25:10,175 casa cita, 502 00:25:10,551 --> 00:25:13,470 or chiquita citadel. 503 00:25:15,681 --> 00:25:19,892 Chiquita Citadel, uh, built it out of cinder block, 504 00:25:19,893 --> 00:25:24,023 poured a concrete slab myself, and built it on it. 505 00:25:24,231 --> 00:25:25,649 All myself. 506 00:25:25,232 --> 00:25:29,111 But this is just the earliest first stage, like I build up from here, 507 00:25:29,695 --> 00:25:32,698 as Bitcoin goes up, my casa goes up. 508 00:25:33,115 --> 00:25:36,201 Outside over here is my bathroom. 509 00:25:38,412 --> 00:25:40,539 At first I was met with, like, uh, 510 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,124 like, disbelief, like, wait, why would you, 511 00:25:43,125 --> 00:25:46,545 an American gringo, want to come and live here? 512 00:25:47,254 --> 00:25:49,005 I don't know how to explain, you know, 513 00:25:49,006 --> 00:25:51,340 well, things are going to change here, 514 00:25:51,341 --> 00:25:53,509 there's going to be a Bitcoin city over there, 515 00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:55,971 a new airport, mucho turismo. 516 00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:59,640 I want to be here, because I like it as is 517 00:25:59,641 --> 00:26:02,186 and I like the potential of what's coming. 518 00:26:10,402 --> 00:26:11,652 [V.O.] There was only one problem 519 00:26:11,653 --> 00:26:14,156 with this grand vision of Bitcoin City. 520 00:26:15,365 --> 00:26:18,202 The people who were living there were in the way. 521 00:26:25,959 --> 00:26:28,337 Wilfredo Claros is a fisherman by trade. 522 00:26:28,962 --> 00:26:32,298 He and his family have lived in La Union for generations, 523 00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:35,051 but now the community is being threatened with displacement 524 00:26:35,052 --> 00:26:37,011 so that the airport to service Bitcoin City 525 00:26:37,012 --> 00:26:38,597 can be built on their land. 526 00:26:38,972 --> 00:26:40,431 In exchange for leaving, 527 00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:42,058 the government has offered Wilfredo 528 00:26:42,059 --> 00:26:44,478 a fraction of what his property is worth. 529 00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:47,648 He has been told the offer is take it or leave it. 530 00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:31,567 So you don't use Bitcoin? 531 00:27:45,831 --> 00:27:47,541 Your sister is... 532 00:27:52,004 --> 00:27:54,422 [V.O.] It was clear to me that Bukele's sales pitch 533 00:27:54,423 --> 00:27:57,467 of a Bitcoin-embracing nation was full of holes. 534 00:27:58,135 --> 00:27:59,927 It felt like a pumped-up marketing scheme 535 00:27:59,928 --> 00:28:01,763 with little substance behind it. 536 00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:04,975 Was it designed to put El Salvador on the map? 537 00:28:05,893 --> 00:28:07,060 Or just Bukele? 538 00:28:07,561 --> 00:28:11,105 - Never before I could have done something that would impact 539 00:28:11,106 --> 00:28:12,357 10 million lives. 540 00:28:13,192 --> 00:28:17,321 Why would I do this if it wasn't for the legacy to change this country? 541 00:28:36,298 --> 00:28:37,506 Got a visitor. 542 00:28:37,507 --> 00:28:39,927 Hi. Good morning. 543 00:28:42,638 --> 00:28:44,096 Good morning. 544 00:28:44,097 --> 00:28:45,474 [V.O.] After leaving El Salvador, 545 00:28:45,224 --> 00:28:48,685 I made my way to London where Moreno was shooting a new film. 546 00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:51,103 The whole family had come along for the ride 547 00:28:51,104 --> 00:28:53,273 and my crypto journey was put on hold. 548 00:28:54,608 --> 00:28:56,610 To be honest, I was fine with it. 549 00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:59,655 I needed a break from Bitcoin sleuthing. 550 00:29:00,530 --> 00:29:02,991 It was time to get back to something real. 551 00:29:04,368 --> 00:29:05,202 Showbiz. 552 00:29:10,207 --> 00:29:11,541 Hello. 553 00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:13,042 Hi. 554 00:29:13,043 --> 00:29:14,752 Is it alright if I come in? 555 00:29:14,753 --> 00:29:15,879 So, how does it work? 556 00:29:16,296 --> 00:29:18,089 Alright. Yeah, I'm gonna hit you. 557 00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:19,549 This whole Hollywood thing. 558 00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:22,969 Is this nice? Is this yours? 559 00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:24,428 Like, is this the one that you go to? 560 00:29:24,429 --> 00:29:25,764 Yes, this is mine. 561 00:29:26,181 --> 00:29:27,349 Jerry is next door. 562 00:29:28,225 --> 00:29:29,226 Jerry Poppers. 563 00:29:30,269 --> 00:29:31,435 - Yeah. - The Jerry Poppers. 564 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:32,353 Yes. 565 00:29:32,354 --> 00:29:34,648 - This is Sparta! 566 00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:37,776 Don't annoy him. 567 00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:41,654 Don't talk to him about crypto. 568 00:29:41,655 --> 00:29:43,739 What do you think Jerry Butler thinks about cryptocurrency? 569 00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:45,033 I haven't asked. 570 00:29:46,118 --> 00:29:48,619 I made a ton of money on it. Yeah, yeah. 571 00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:50,329 - Oh, really? - I've done really well. 572 00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:53,791 Really, really, really well. Out of it, yeah. 573 00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:55,459 - Wow. - So far, yeah. 574 00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:57,503 But I don't actually know anything about it. 575 00:29:57,504 --> 00:29:58,797 Well, it doesn't matter, right? 576 00:30:01,341 --> 00:30:04,135 - So, what... How you doing? - Yeah, I'm alright. 577 00:30:04,136 --> 00:30:06,345 It's great to tell you what I'm doing these days. 578 00:30:06,346 --> 00:30:07,805 - A little bit. - Yeah, yeah. 579 00:30:07,806 --> 00:30:11,684 - And I'm doing like a documentary... - Oh, yeah. 580 00:30:11,685 --> 00:30:13,060 - ...you know, trying to get the word out. 581 00:30:13,061 --> 00:30:15,980 I mean, it's hard because it's so successful 582 00:30:15,981 --> 00:30:19,650 and so many people made so much money on it. 583 00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:22,069 So, it's kind of hard to get that story out because... 584 00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:25,490 Hey, are you still-- Are you still acting? 585 00:30:25,615 --> 00:30:26,741 - Yeah. - Yeah? 586 00:30:26,742 --> 00:30:29,494 No, I did a pilot. 587 00:30:30,329 --> 00:30:31,204 Oh, nice. 588 00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:32,414 I didn't go. 589 00:30:32,748 --> 00:30:33,582 No. 590 00:30:36,335 --> 00:30:38,754 - Docter. - Yeah. 591 00:30:39,129 --> 00:30:40,797 Anyway, listen, I... 592 00:30:41,715 --> 00:30:44,216 - ...I gotta go. - No, no, I understand. Thank you. 593 00:30:44,217 --> 00:30:46,470 No, no, nice to see you, Ben. 594 00:30:59,107 --> 00:31:01,068 [V.O.] Maybe Gerard Butler was right. 595 00:31:01,777 --> 00:31:05,154 As long as everyone was getting rich on this Bitcoin stuff, 596 00:31:05,155 --> 00:31:07,866 why bother to understand how it actually works. 597 00:31:24,591 --> 00:31:25,926 Uh, uh... 598 00:31:27,219 --> 00:31:28,136 Yeah. 599 00:31:38,021 --> 00:31:39,106 It makes me feel old. 600 00:31:40,107 --> 00:31:41,357 What's your name? 601 00:31:41,358 --> 00:31:42,441 Scott? 602 00:31:42,442 --> 00:31:44,068 Scott Ben. 603 00:31:44,069 --> 00:31:45,779 Nice to meet you, man. 604 00:31:47,030 --> 00:31:50,700 Ah, this, I'm filming a documentary. 605 00:31:50,909 --> 00:31:52,119 Yeah. 606 00:31:54,204 --> 00:31:56,581 It's about cryptocurrency. 607 00:32:38,957 --> 00:32:39,999 It's the future of money. 608 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,876 We just need the real stuff right now. 609 00:32:41,877 --> 00:32:43,128 [V.O.] Gerard Butler was honest. 610 00:32:43,712 --> 00:32:45,213 He had just gotten lucky with Bitcoin. 611 00:32:45,797 --> 00:32:49,259 But I had to believe there were more Scott the Scaffolders out there. 612 00:32:49,676 --> 00:32:53,138 Regular people trying to make an extra buck and getting scammed. 613 00:32:53,638 --> 00:32:54,806 I had to keep going. 614 00:33:00,061 --> 00:33:01,062 But where to begin? 615 00:33:01,813 --> 00:33:03,398 It felt like crypto was everywhere, 616 00:33:03,899 --> 00:33:06,233 the virus spreading in infinite directions. 617 00:33:06,234 --> 00:33:09,653 - There are now over 1,500 cryptocurrencies. 618 00:33:09,654 --> 00:33:11,364 - There's PP coin, there's BBQ coin, 619 00:33:11,781 --> 00:33:13,825 there's Litecoin, there's Feathercoin, 620 00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:15,368 Primecoin is a very interesting one. 621 00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:18,455 - We can just make as many tokens as your heart desires. 622 00:33:18,663 --> 00:33:21,374 [V.O.] There were so many promising crypto coins out there, 623 00:33:21,958 --> 00:33:24,294 with names like Internet Computer, 624 00:33:24,836 --> 00:33:26,755 Bonk, and Cum Rocket. 625 00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:31,343 In the crypto community, they were known as shit coins. 626 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,887 And with the frenzy in full effect, 627 00:33:35,889 --> 00:33:39,559 trying to figure out where to go next was daunting. 628 00:33:39,976 --> 00:33:41,852 - Very interesting what's happening with Doge. 629 00:33:41,853 --> 00:33:44,730 We do know that Elon Musk if a huge proponent of Doge Coin. 630 00:33:44,731 --> 00:33:47,734 And since that it could become the world's leading currency. 631 00:34:27,232 --> 00:34:29,943 - And we need someone to help us with our financial life. 632 00:34:31,444 --> 00:34:34,154 and normally we just people that-- 633 00:34:34,155 --> 00:34:36,324 - we think are acting in our best interest. 634 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,703 But what if these people are not acting in our best interest? 635 00:34:39,828 --> 00:34:42,622 What if their interest is exactly the opposite of ours? 636 00:34:42,747 --> 00:34:44,957 Should we continue giving them our money-- 637 00:34:44,958 --> 00:34:47,419 - or should we take the money and put it somewhere else? 638 00:34:47,794 --> 00:34:52,882 Celsius Network, we decided to create a replacement for the banking system. 639 00:34:53,883 --> 00:34:56,760 We have 1.2 million customers, 640 00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:58,722 and we're adding about 100,000 a month. 641 00:34:59,598 --> 00:35:02,683 We've paid a billion dollars back to the community in interest. 642 00:35:02,684 --> 00:35:05,729 That's probably more than some of the largest banks in the world. 643 00:35:05,854 --> 00:35:08,898 It just shows you how banks are not your friends. 644 00:35:09,649 --> 00:35:11,067 But Alex is your friend? 645 00:35:11,443 --> 00:35:12,402 - Yes. 646 00:35:13,028 --> 00:35:15,530 [V.O.] Celsius sought to upend the banking system, 647 00:35:15,989 --> 00:35:17,866 led by its founder, Alex Mashinsky. 648 00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:22,037 Rather than keep the profits for themselves, like most banks, 649 00:35:22,912 --> 00:35:25,165 Alex wanted to give that money back to the users. 650 00:35:29,544 --> 00:35:32,005 But this new model for a bank had a fatal flaw. 651 00:35:33,256 --> 00:35:34,549 Celsius was not a bank. 652 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:36,926 It even said so on its website. 653 00:35:37,302 --> 00:35:40,221 You know, in the very small print at the bottom of the page. 654 00:35:41,806 --> 00:35:42,891 Not shady at all. 655 00:35:43,933 --> 00:35:47,228 If something happened to Celsius, your money might be gone forever. 656 00:35:48,813 --> 00:35:51,566 A real licensed U.S. bank is just the opposite. 657 00:35:52,067 --> 00:35:53,860 If the bank goes under, 658 00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:56,487 our government steps in to cover the loss. 659 00:35:56,488 --> 00:35:58,614 The system works because people trust it, 660 00:35:58,615 --> 00:36:00,283 and they trust it because it works. 661 00:36:02,369 --> 00:36:04,579 Moshensky claimed to have built a better bank, 662 00:36:05,330 --> 00:36:08,458 but I suspected he had created something far more dangerous. 663 00:36:23,807 --> 00:36:26,976 It was time to take my film crew to meet Alex Moshensky. 664 00:36:27,727 --> 00:36:30,772 - As luck would have it, he happened to be in my hometown. 665 00:36:37,904 --> 00:36:39,864 The clothing brand Poopy and Pooper? 666 00:36:40,407 --> 00:36:41,741 That guy's definitely into groups like that. 667 00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:46,787 [V.O.] South By featured the bleeding edge of technology. 668 00:36:46,788 --> 00:36:48,873 Things like virtual reality, 669 00:36:50,250 --> 00:36:51,209 pickleball, 670 00:36:52,293 --> 00:36:53,377 - I got you, baby. 671 00:36:53,378 --> 00:36:55,004 [V.O.] and the CIA. 672 00:36:55,922 --> 00:36:59,259 - What you're going to do is press and hold that A button. 673 00:36:59,759 --> 00:37:00,635 Or B button, sorry. 674 00:37:00,802 --> 00:37:02,554 - Hold this button? - Yeah, uh, yes. 675 00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:05,473 Whoa. 676 00:37:08,351 --> 00:37:10,979 I don't know if you guys are aware, the CIA has a podcast. 677 00:37:12,021 --> 00:37:13,272 The CIA podcast? 678 00:37:13,273 --> 00:37:14,816 Yeah, we do. You should check it out. 679 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,527 [V.O.] As I made my way to the Celsius booth, 680 00:37:17,861 --> 00:37:20,487 I decided I would play the role of a gullible actor 681 00:37:20,488 --> 00:37:21,781 stumbling onto crypto. 682 00:37:23,158 --> 00:37:25,034 Should be easy enough. 683 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,661 - Like, where have I seen you? 684 00:37:26,786 --> 00:37:28,496 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was on the OC, 685 00:37:28,621 --> 00:37:30,873 and then I did a show called Southland, 686 00:37:30,874 --> 00:37:32,375 which was a late cop show. 687 00:37:32,959 --> 00:37:34,669 Um, what are you guys doing here? 688 00:37:34,836 --> 00:37:36,962 We're crypto. We're, uh, Celsius. 689 00:37:36,963 --> 00:37:38,380 Oh, right, right, right. 690 00:37:38,381 --> 00:37:39,715 That's us. 691 00:37:39,716 --> 00:37:41,008 - That's you guys? - Yeah. 692 00:37:41,009 --> 00:37:42,510 That's our... That's the logo. 693 00:37:42,844 --> 00:37:44,636 - Oh. - Alex is the CEO, 694 00:37:44,637 --> 00:37:45,513 CTO. 695 00:37:45,764 --> 00:37:46,890 Oh, my God. 696 00:37:47,807 --> 00:37:48,807 You're in the right place. 697 00:37:48,808 --> 00:37:50,351 Yeah. So what does it do? 698 00:37:50,727 --> 00:37:51,936 What does Celsius do? 699 00:37:52,103 --> 00:37:55,189 We-- we basically do the opposite of what banks do. 700 00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:56,940 Anything a bank does, we do the opposite. 701 00:37:56,941 --> 00:37:58,150 - Okay. - Okay? 702 00:37:58,151 --> 00:37:59,778 They charge you fee, we don't charge you fees. 703 00:38:00,111 --> 00:38:02,362 - How do you make money, then? - We pay you interest. 704 00:38:02,363 --> 00:38:04,199 Oh, okay. How do you make money, then? 705 00:38:04,824 --> 00:38:07,075 Banks make a lot of money. They don't want to give it to you. 706 00:38:07,076 --> 00:38:08,327 They give it to their shareholders. 707 00:38:08,328 --> 00:38:09,578 Uh-huh, uh-huh. 708 00:38:09,579 --> 00:38:10,914 We treat it like a community. 709 00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:12,916 So we take all the profits and give it to our community. 710 00:38:13,041 --> 00:38:14,083 It's like a community bank. 711 00:38:14,626 --> 00:38:17,295 [V.O.] Except it's not a bank. 712 00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:20,215 - So has Celsius experienced any legal trouble? 713 00:38:21,174 --> 00:38:23,967 We don't-- I don't know what you mean by legal trouble. 714 00:38:23,968 --> 00:38:26,595 Well, legal proceedings. Has anybody, like, sued you guys? 715 00:38:26,596 --> 00:38:28,388 Have you had any fines or anything? 716 00:38:28,389 --> 00:38:30,974 But there's no financial institution 717 00:38:30,975 --> 00:38:33,852 that is not getting inspected by all these agencies. 718 00:38:33,853 --> 00:38:36,313 - Every day. - I'm not hearing a no. I'm hearing, 719 00:38:36,314 --> 00:38:39,066 uh, I'm just asking, I'm just asking you an honest question. 720 00:38:39,067 --> 00:38:40,150 The answer is no. 721 00:38:40,151 --> 00:38:41,276 - The answer is no. - Oh, oh. 722 00:38:41,277 --> 00:38:42,694 The answer is no. 723 00:38:42,695 --> 00:38:44,614 [V.O.] The answer was, in fact, yes. 724 00:38:44,948 --> 00:38:49,451 Celsius was facing legal action in multiple states, New Jersey, Alabama, 725 00:38:49,452 --> 00:38:50,411 and even Texas. 726 00:38:51,412 --> 00:38:54,915 - So what do you say to the people who have been scammed in crypto, 727 00:38:54,916 --> 00:38:57,460 obviously to half the people, like we can all acknowledge that. 728 00:38:57,669 --> 00:39:00,295 So what do you say to those, like, what's the solution to that? 729 00:39:00,296 --> 00:39:03,465 - How do we fix that? - The guy on Twitter asked me, what? 730 00:39:03,466 --> 00:39:05,634 Alex, how come all the scammers are coming to crypto? 731 00:39:05,635 --> 00:39:08,303 I'm like, you left the door open, you left the window open. 732 00:39:08,304 --> 00:39:10,097 Of course they're going to come and steal from you. 733 00:39:10,098 --> 00:39:11,390 So it's maybe sort of their fault. 734 00:39:11,391 --> 00:39:14,310 - Like they sort of... - It's not, it's not just that. 735 00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:15,811 If you left money on the street, 736 00:39:15,812 --> 00:39:17,479 do you expect it to be there in the morning? 737 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,357 It's not just that. I think a lot of this has to do with easy money 738 00:39:20,358 --> 00:39:22,234 and fraud. They go hand in hand, 739 00:39:22,235 --> 00:39:25,279 because as soon as you, as soon as you say like, 740 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,532 - I want to park my currency with you - Yeah. 741 00:39:28,533 --> 00:39:30,367 [V.O] Toward the end of our conversation, 742 00:39:30,368 --> 00:39:32,579 with the video off, but the audio still rolling. 743 00:39:33,329 --> 00:39:36,666 I asked him how much real money he thought was in the crypto system. 744 00:39:36,875 --> 00:39:40,587 - Say maybe 10 or 15 percent is real money that went into the system. 745 00:39:41,254 --> 00:39:43,339 And everything else is just bubble. 746 00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:47,968 [V.O.] It was a jaw-droppingly low number, 747 00:39:47,969 --> 00:39:52,097 and mildly concerning as the crypto market had been booming for years. 748 00:39:52,098 --> 00:39:54,141 - Cryptocurrency is going mainstream 749 00:39:54,142 --> 00:39:57,353 with a total market cap of nearly three trillion dollars. 750 00:39:57,478 --> 00:39:59,856 - Mastercard says now any bank or merchant on 751 00:39:59,981 --> 00:40:02,733 its network will soon be able to offer crypto services. 752 00:40:02,734 --> 00:40:05,360 - Bitcoin investors feelin' good as hell today! 753 00:40:05,361 --> 00:40:09,573 The crypto coin reaching an all-time high of 68,000. 754 00:40:09,574 --> 00:40:13,076 - We do see Bitcoin going up and up and up. It's amazing. It's amazing. 755 00:40:13,077 --> 00:40:14,412 Where is it going? 756 00:40:13,995 --> 00:40:17,248 It's probably going to 100, then 150, then 200,000. 757 00:40:17,749 --> 00:40:19,042 [V.O.] It made zero sense. 758 00:40:22,795 --> 00:40:25,214 Maybe it was time to meet my mysterious friend. 759 00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:36,350 Hey, this is Dave. I can't come to the phone right now. 760 00:40:36,351 --> 00:40:37,685 But leave your name and number 761 00:40:37,352 --> 00:40:39,270 and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks. 762 00:40:42,607 --> 00:40:44,192 Dave, it's your boy. 763 00:40:44,567 --> 00:40:47,445 I'm down in Florida meeting with some random guy 764 00:40:48,363 --> 00:40:51,950 I met from the internet who says all of cryptocurrency is a scam. 765 00:40:53,451 --> 00:40:54,827 If I don't come back alive, 766 00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:56,579 I love you. 767 00:41:00,667 --> 00:41:01,959 Really nice to meet you. 768 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,418 - Yeah. - Thank you for doing this. 769 00:41:03,419 --> 00:41:06,005 Yeah. No problem. 770 00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:08,548 Okay, so let's start with how you got started. 771 00:41:08,549 --> 00:41:11,677 how did you fall into this crypto rabbit hole? 772 00:41:11,678 --> 00:41:16,848 My background is I used to do video game hacking and reverse engineering. 773 00:41:16,849 --> 00:41:19,601 I was basically printing my own money from video games. 774 00:41:19,602 --> 00:41:22,479 So you started off as someone, a professional cheater? 775 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,232 Yeah, I was basically, yeah, I was cheating in video games, yes. 776 00:41:25,233 --> 00:41:29,361 Inevitably, I got caught, and I got banned for 30 years. 777 00:41:29,362 --> 00:41:35,409 But what I learned is that it's the same bullshit, you know, as crypto. 778 00:41:35,410 --> 00:41:36,494 Right. 779 00:41:36,369 --> 00:41:40,248 You've been exposing crypto fraud since 2016? 780 00:41:40,373 --> 00:41:44,209 I would say, when I first started, it's going to be March of 2017. 781 00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:45,669 I had some suspicions early, 782 00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:48,171 and once I started digging a little bit deeper, 783 00:41:48,172 --> 00:41:50,800 I'm like, okay, this is bad. This is fraud. 784 00:41:51,384 --> 00:41:52,427 Why do you think that is? 785 00:41:52,635 --> 00:41:54,053 I personally believe 786 00:41:53,594 --> 00:41:56,597 the entire market is really controlled by fewer than 20 people. 787 00:41:56,723 --> 00:42:00,892 You know, and they can make the price go to whatever they want. 788 00:42:00,893 --> 00:42:02,270 How? 789 00:42:01,811 --> 00:42:05,815 Let's say you have two accounts, and you want the price to go up. 790 00:42:06,357 --> 00:42:08,775 So all you do is trade between your two accounts 791 00:42:08,776 --> 00:42:11,195 and you can basically just walk the price up. 792 00:42:13,531 --> 00:42:15,699 So they control both sides of the trade? 793 00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:17,160 Right and then someone else 794 00:42:16,909 --> 00:42:19,454 that's on the outside doesn't realize and they see the prices going up. 795 00:42:19,579 --> 00:42:22,247 It's got up 15 % in the past 15 minutes, 796 00:42:22,248 --> 00:42:24,000 you know, and they go ahead and they buy it. 797 00:42:25,376 --> 00:42:27,044 Those are the suckers basically coming in 798 00:42:27,045 --> 00:42:29,421 not realizing that it was just one guy 799 00:42:29,422 --> 00:42:31,298 with two accounts making the price go up 800 00:42:31,299 --> 00:42:34,509 - Right - Between 90 and 95% 801 00:42:34,510 --> 00:42:36,220 of all the cripple trading 802 00:42:36,471 --> 00:42:37,596 That's all it is 803 00:42:37,597 --> 00:42:39,556 Now the other 5% is only in there 804 00:42:39,557 --> 00:42:43,226 because they think that the other 90 to 95% is real 805 00:42:43,227 --> 00:42:44,187 which it's not. 806 00:42:45,980 --> 00:42:49,400 [V.O.] So now the people pumping up the price can sell their tokens. 807 00:42:51,611 --> 00:42:53,154 And everybody else gets screwed. 808 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,740 - Yes, that's it. 809 00:42:58,451 --> 00:43:02,120 So if 90 to 95% of the trading is fake, 810 00:43:02,121 --> 00:43:04,707 does that mean the social media activity is that also fake or? 811 00:43:04,957 --> 00:43:06,666 It's paid for. A lot of it is paid for. 812 00:43:06,667 --> 00:43:09,544 A lot of it are actually bots that just spam Twitter, 813 00:43:09,545 --> 00:43:10,713 you know, 24/7. 814 00:43:15,968 --> 00:43:17,886 But the thing is, a lot of these crypto influencers 815 00:43:17,887 --> 00:43:19,680 are actually paid by the scammers themselves. 816 00:43:19,806 --> 00:43:20,973 What are they paid in? 817 00:43:21,099 --> 00:43:22,350 Dollars. 818 00:43:22,475 --> 00:43:23,391 Not crypto. 819 00:43:23,392 --> 00:43:26,187 But basically everybody inside of crypto 820 00:43:26,312 --> 00:43:29,564 is winning except for the regular people that put their money on it. 821 00:43:29,565 --> 00:43:32,943 Yeah, the regular people that don't realize that it's all a facade. 822 00:43:32,944 --> 00:43:34,402 Right. They're the ones holding the bag. 823 00:43:34,403 --> 00:43:35,238 Yeah. 824 00:43:36,447 --> 00:43:38,658 [V.O.] Celsius had a coin called Cell. 825 00:43:38,908 --> 00:43:43,037 Its price had exploded, growing by a factor of 10 in less than a year. 826 00:43:43,621 --> 00:43:45,247 If Bitfinext was right, 827 00:43:45,248 --> 00:43:47,667 then once the insiders took their money off the table, 828 00:43:48,042 --> 00:43:49,460 a crash was inevitable. 829 00:43:50,211 --> 00:43:53,004 - Crypto obviously right now getting crushed. 830 00:43:53,005 --> 00:43:55,924 - Tonight, a massive sell-off of cryptocurrency. 831 00:43:55,925 --> 00:44:00,262 The price of Bitcoin plunging to its lowest level in 16 months. 832 00:44:00,263 --> 00:44:02,973 The numbers sending some investors spiraling, 833 00:44:02,974 --> 00:44:04,934 fearing they could lose it all. 834 00:44:07,353 --> 00:44:09,939 [V.O.] The market's collapse was shockingly swift. 835 00:44:10,857 --> 00:44:13,567 And rumors were circulating about Celsius going under. 836 00:44:13,568 --> 00:44:16,528 - You don't need to find something better 837 00:44:16,529 --> 00:44:18,613 because there isn't anything better. We allow people to 838 00:44:18,614 --> 00:44:20,615 withdraw hundreds of millions of dollars every week. 839 00:44:20,616 --> 00:44:23,119 Anyone who wants to withdraw has no problem. 840 00:44:25,496 --> 00:44:29,416 - So breaking news, the cryptocurrency platform Celsius, 841 00:44:29,417 --> 00:44:32,169 they are stopping withdrawals. 842 00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:34,921 - CEO Alex Mashinsky now saying in a statement, 843 00:44:34,922 --> 00:44:38,466 this is the right decision for our community and company. 844 00:44:38,467 --> 00:44:42,971 This whole idea of banks are evil and then becoming a worse bank 845 00:44:42,972 --> 00:44:46,183 is kind of the headline story with Celsius. 846 00:44:46,184 --> 00:44:49,979 [V.O.] And the price pumping tricks that Bitfinex laid out were spot on. 847 00:44:50,313 --> 00:44:51,647 - You're saying 848 00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:54,609 that management was manipulating the price of the Celsius token. 849 00:44:54,734 --> 00:44:58,613 - They were absolutely trading the token to manipulate the price. 850 00:44:58,738 --> 00:45:00,030 [V.O.] As more details emerged, 851 00:45:00,031 --> 00:45:02,575 it was clear that Celsius was never profitable. 852 00:45:02,909 --> 00:45:05,912 It merely took money from the new customers to pay the old ones. 853 00:45:07,914 --> 00:45:10,665 Maszynski and his crew reportedly withdrew millions 854 00:45:10,666 --> 00:45:12,626 before filing for bankruptcy. 855 00:45:12,627 --> 00:45:13,877 To make matters worse, 856 00:45:13,878 --> 00:45:15,837 Maszynski's wife started selling a new take 857 00:45:15,838 --> 00:45:17,632 on the classic Celsius t-shirt. 858 00:45:18,090 --> 00:45:20,593 It read, Unbankrupt Yourself. 859 00:45:21,594 --> 00:45:23,679 The people who were scammed were pissed. 860 00:45:26,557 --> 00:45:28,184 I set up a few Zoom calls. 861 00:45:29,143 --> 00:45:32,229 Uh. How are you? 862 00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:34,064 - Can you hear me? - You cut out. 863 00:45:34,065 --> 00:45:36,483 - I cut out. Just-- - I can hear you. 864 00:45:36,484 --> 00:45:38,026 We're out in the desert. 865 00:45:38,027 --> 00:45:39,986 Would you mind tilting your camera up just a little bit. 866 00:45:39,987 --> 00:45:41,738 I'm having trouble seeing your face. 867 00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:43,531 Ah, I can hear you. 868 00:45:43,532 --> 00:45:47,411 Here we go. I think it was connected to my X-Box for some reason. 869 00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:49,997 Did you say you were in Texas? 870 00:45:50,373 --> 00:45:52,290 Yeah, yeah. I'm in Fort Worth. 871 00:45:52,291 --> 00:45:54,084 Oh, cool. I grew up in Austin. 872 00:45:54,085 --> 00:45:56,253 Yeah, I love Austin, man. 873 00:45:56,254 --> 00:45:59,339 I like your shirt. What does it say? In Crypto... 874 00:45:59,340 --> 00:46:01,466 Oh. In Crypto We Trust. 875 00:46:01,467 --> 00:46:04,928 Nice. In Crypto We Trust. 876 00:46:04,929 --> 00:46:07,598 Yeah, just not so much Alex Mashinsky. 877 00:46:09,183 --> 00:46:10,976 What initially attracted you to it? 878 00:46:10,977 --> 00:46:12,852 You said your friends... 879 00:46:12,853 --> 00:46:15,730 were investing in Celsius or encouraging you to invest. 880 00:46:15,731 --> 00:46:17,899 Do you remember why you first invested? 881 00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:20,068 I mean the idea wasn't just to like get rich and get big. 882 00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:22,195 I think I just wanted to have good investments for my future 883 00:46:22,196 --> 00:46:23,613 and be able to build. 884 00:46:23,614 --> 00:46:27,285 - So I was just trying to get myself set up for retirement. 885 00:46:27,410 --> 00:46:31,621 - I saw Celsius as an opportunity to make a lot of interest. 886 00:46:31,622 --> 00:46:34,249 - Maybe even find a way to where I'm not having to work 887 00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:36,126 as many hours a week or something 888 00:46:36,127 --> 00:46:38,796 just so I could spend more time with my daughter. 889 00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:41,007 - My M.O. is I just want to do something that's simple 890 00:46:41,132 --> 00:46:44,384 and this seems like an easy way to sort of like 891 00:46:44,385 --> 00:46:47,053 have, you know, get passive income. 892 00:46:47,054 --> 00:46:48,763 - I thought that I was going to get to a point 893 00:46:48,764 --> 00:46:52,142 where I would be able to live off the interest, you know, 894 00:46:52,143 --> 00:46:56,813 and none of it was ever even there. 895 00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:59,608 Do you remember when you heard Celsius collapse? 896 00:46:59,984 --> 00:47:03,403 I was crying, my wife was upset, my kid was too young to know 897 00:47:03,404 --> 00:47:06,449 what's going on, but we lost a lot of money that day. 898 00:47:06,699 --> 00:47:11,036 - The amount that he hosed everybody is just, sheesh. 899 00:47:11,037 --> 00:47:13,830 Yeah, but whenever all of that had happened, 900 00:47:13,831 --> 00:47:15,332 nobody knew what was going on. 901 00:47:15,333 --> 00:47:19,502 And the way that Celsius was being painted to us was that, 902 00:47:19,503 --> 00:47:21,296 you know, it was safer than a bank. 903 00:47:21,297 --> 00:47:24,716 - How could this possibly be an obvious scam, given that, you know, 904 00:47:24,717 --> 00:47:26,885 there's all these people behind it? 905 00:47:26,886 --> 00:47:28,553 - I thought there was no risk with Celcius, 906 00:47:28,554 --> 00:47:31,639 because they said they were keeping our funds safe. 907 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,060 - You know, we're U.S.-approved, we're SEC-whatever-approved. 908 00:47:35,061 --> 00:47:39,981 - Trust us. We, you know, have risk mitigation in place. 909 00:47:39,982 --> 00:47:41,775 Everything is fine. 910 00:47:41,776 --> 00:47:43,693 - It gave the impression of security. 911 00:47:43,694 --> 00:47:48,281 - I just never crossed paths with such a criminal, you know. 912 00:47:48,282 --> 00:47:51,076 Just a criminal. Through and through. 913 00:47:51,077 --> 00:47:55,831 - I will take the hit. If I ever meet that dude I will pull my pants down. 914 00:47:56,999 --> 00:48:00,377 With Alex, the difference between what he was saying 915 00:48:00,378 --> 00:48:02,337 and what he was actually doing 916 00:48:02,338 --> 00:48:03,631 is just is vast. 917 00:48:03,756 --> 00:48:07,760 It was Bernie Madoff level, you know, fraud. 918 00:48:07,885 --> 00:48:08,969 - When you meet him in person, 919 00:48:08,928 --> 00:48:11,931 he just gave off Carnival Barker vibes to me. 920 00:48:12,056 --> 00:48:16,226 - I wonder if you were able to see a side of him in person 921 00:48:16,227 --> 00:48:19,771 that I wasn't seeing on the videos. 922 00:48:19,772 --> 00:48:22,232 - Given that Mashinsky was running this fraud, 923 00:48:22,233 --> 00:48:25,360 do you think that the Celsius community was a real thing? 924 00:48:25,361 --> 00:48:27,695 - No. No, never. 925 00:48:27,696 --> 00:48:30,698 - For me personally, Celsius doesn't really have a community. 926 00:48:30,699 --> 00:48:33,827 It's just got a very long list of victims. 927 00:48:33,828 --> 00:48:35,537 I have a question for you. 928 00:48:35,538 --> 00:48:37,331 Have you seen the creditor list? 929 00:48:38,666 --> 00:48:41,502 Not in any great detail. Why? 930 00:48:41,669 --> 00:48:43,878 Let me see if I can share my screen for this. 931 00:48:43,879 --> 00:48:49,510 So, this is the list of people that are owed money by Celsius. 932 00:48:49,635 --> 00:48:53,556 And if you just, I don't know, go into A, for example, 933 00:48:53,681 --> 00:48:56,641 - It just goes on and on and on. - Oh my god. 934 00:48:56,642 --> 00:48:58,977 - I'm on page 588, 935 00:48:58,978 --> 00:49:01,729 so I think the 1,388 pages 936 00:49:01,730 --> 00:49:04,858 are just the people with names starting with A. 937 00:49:04,859 --> 00:49:10,071 The number of people who put money into Celsius is astronomical. 938 00:49:10,072 --> 00:49:11,573 It's huge. 939 00:49:11,574 --> 00:49:14,409 - One question we're asking everyone is, 940 00:49:14,410 --> 00:49:18,079 how did losing the money affect you, if at all? 941 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,373 I mean, it seems silly, 942 00:49:18,998 --> 00:49:21,625 but I was more focused on just like the embarrassment 943 00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:24,794 then the actual financial implications. 944 00:49:24,795 --> 00:49:26,337 Yeah, I just kind of remember thinking, 945 00:49:26,338 --> 00:49:30,259 well, this is going to push my retirement back a few years. 946 00:49:30,759 --> 00:49:36,306 - It was mostly, mostly just a shot at freedom, you know, 947 00:49:36,307 --> 00:49:39,976 a shot at a little bit more claiming of my time back and that 948 00:49:39,977 --> 00:49:43,354 time I can't get with my daughter back. 949 00:49:43,355 --> 00:49:46,192 I just had so many plans, you know. 950 00:49:47,443 --> 00:49:48,485 - I'm sorry. 951 00:49:48,486 --> 00:49:50,821 - I feel like I let it down big time. 952 00:49:51,322 --> 00:49:52,698 - Yeah. 953 00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:53,865 I'm sorry, man. 954 00:49:53,866 --> 00:49:55,867 - Nah. No. It's okay. 955 00:49:55,868 --> 00:49:57,744 - I'm totally at peace with it, you know. 956 00:49:57,745 --> 00:50:01,581 - It just sucks that that one thing had to kick my plan in the shin. 957 00:50:01,582 --> 00:50:03,708 - Yeah, yeah. 958 00:50:03,709 --> 00:50:06,336 Life has a way of doing that, doesn't it, sometimes? 959 00:50:06,337 --> 00:50:07,588 - Yeah. 960 00:50:13,761 --> 00:50:16,262 [V.O.] The false story of Celsius was predicated 961 00:50:16,263 --> 00:50:19,099 on a fundamental truth that our system is flawed. 962 00:50:20,017 --> 00:50:22,561 But Celsius didn't offer a better solution, 963 00:50:22,937 --> 00:50:25,480 merely a way to tap into people's anger 964 00:50:25,481 --> 00:50:27,942 and funnel their money into a Ponzi scheme. 965 00:50:32,029 --> 00:50:34,448 Our current financial system is far from perfect, 966 00:50:35,115 --> 00:50:37,785 but at the very least it's built on centuries of trust, 967 00:50:39,453 --> 00:50:42,581 because the economy is something we all contribute to. 968 00:50:43,249 --> 00:50:45,959 So in the end, for our economy to work, 969 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,836 we are essentially trusting ourselves, 970 00:50:48,837 --> 00:50:49,838 and each other. 971 00:50:55,678 --> 00:50:57,095 - Lying for Money: 972 00:50:57,096 --> 00:50:59,974 How Legendary Frauds Reveal the Workings of the World. 973 00:51:00,558 --> 00:51:03,727 Written and read by me, Dan Davis. 974 00:51:05,271 --> 00:51:07,689 From the beginnings of modern capitalism, 975 00:51:07,690 --> 00:51:11,944 there have been people engaged in the business of stealing by lying. 976 00:51:12,528 --> 00:51:15,906 Seeing the forest for the trees is a difficult thing to do, 977 00:51:16,031 --> 00:51:18,367 because there will always be trust, 978 00:51:18,492 --> 00:51:21,661 and therefore, there will always be scams. 979 00:51:21,662 --> 00:51:26,500 [V.O.] After Celsius blew up, dozens of other companies also went down. 980 00:51:26,625 --> 00:51:28,669 It was dubbed the Crypto Winter. 981 00:51:29,795 --> 00:51:32,506 The industry appeared on the verge of collapse. 982 00:51:32,798 --> 00:51:34,383 Only one man could save it. 983 00:51:34,508 --> 00:51:37,344 - The crypto world is now going to get a bailout, 984 00:51:37,469 --> 00:51:39,721 and it's coming from one of their own. 985 00:51:39,722 --> 00:51:41,973 - Sam Bankman-Fried is really becoming 986 00:51:41,974 --> 00:51:45,310 the industry's lifeline during a crisis lately. 987 00:51:45,311 --> 00:51:49,272 - The CEO of FTX is behind hundreds of millions of dollars 988 00:51:49,273 --> 00:51:50,815 in emergency loans. 989 00:51:50,816 --> 00:51:52,776 [V.O.] He was everywhere. 990 00:51:53,110 --> 00:51:55,153 - Joining me now is Sam Bankman-Fried. 991 00:51:55,154 --> 00:51:57,488 - He's the 29-year-old gazillionaire, 992 00:51:57,489 --> 00:51:59,574 FTX founder and CEO, Sam-- 993 00:51:59,575 --> 00:52:04,162 - Bankman-Fried, amassing an astonishing $22.5 billion fortune. 994 00:52:04,163 --> 00:52:08,333 - I mean, it is, to me, amazing that, like, three years ago, 995 00:52:08,334 --> 00:52:12,545 nobody knew who you were, and now your business is, like, 996 00:52:12,546 --> 00:52:15,840 one of the fastest-growing businesses in the history of the planet. 997 00:52:15,841 --> 00:52:18,176 [V.O.] Sam was the unlikeliest of billionaires. 998 00:52:18,177 --> 00:52:20,637 Tussled hair, T-shirt, and cargo shorts. 999 00:52:20,638 --> 00:52:23,014 He made his billions trading crypto. 1000 00:52:23,015 --> 00:52:26,977 But Sam's motivation was a complete 180 from someone like Mashinsky. 1001 00:52:28,270 --> 00:52:30,855 Sam was a proponent of a philosophical craze 1002 00:52:30,856 --> 00:52:34,276 sweeping through Silicon Valley called Effective Altruism. 1003 00:52:36,195 --> 00:52:38,280 Conceptually EA is straightforward. 1004 00:52:38,947 --> 00:52:41,407 If you want to do the most good for the most people, 1005 00:52:41,408 --> 00:52:43,576 you should strive to make the most money possible 1006 00:52:43,577 --> 00:52:44,912 in order to give it all away. 1007 00:52:45,204 --> 00:52:48,206 - I wanted to get rich not because I like money, 1008 00:52:48,207 --> 00:52:51,251 but because I wanted to give that money to charity. 1009 00:52:51,460 --> 00:52:55,129 [V.O.] And Sam saw crypto as the vehicle to make that happen. 1010 00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:57,424 So keeping the industry afloat was key. 1011 00:52:57,675 --> 00:53:01,260 - A high-profile crypto failure would be devastating, 1012 00:53:01,261 --> 00:53:05,264 could also spark retail investors to leave the industry altogether, 1013 00:53:05,265 --> 00:53:06,933 which FTX really relies on. 1014 00:53:06,934 --> 00:53:08,935 [V.O.] FDX was Sam's crypto exchange, 1015 00:53:08,936 --> 00:53:11,271 where you could buy all sorts of cryptocurrencies. 1016 00:53:12,189 --> 00:53:15,650 - When we think about, you know, where crypto is today, 1017 00:53:15,651 --> 00:53:18,569 it still is touching a pretty small fraction of the world. 1018 00:53:18,570 --> 00:53:21,197 And so I think a lot of what we've been thinking is like, 1019 00:53:21,198 --> 00:53:23,574 what are ways that we can take what 1020 00:53:23,575 --> 00:53:27,120 we see as an exciting, growing set of products and industry, 1021 00:53:27,121 --> 00:53:30,123 and sort of introduce them to tens of millions of people. 1022 00:53:30,124 --> 00:53:32,208 [V.O.] He did this by using his ballooning wealth 1023 00:53:32,209 --> 00:53:35,044 to pay for sponsorships and celebrity endorsements. 1024 00:53:35,045 --> 00:53:37,755 - FTX is the safest and easiest way to buy and sell crypto. 1025 00:53:37,756 --> 00:53:38,923 - It's the best way to get in the game. 1026 00:53:38,924 --> 00:53:40,758 - With FTX, I have everything I need 1027 00:53:40,759 --> 00:53:43,053 to buy, sell, and trade crypto safely. 1028 00:53:43,512 --> 00:53:44,722 [V.O.] He even signed deals 1029 00:53:44,638 --> 00:53:47,099 with paid spokespeople in the financial industry, 1030 00:53:47,224 --> 00:53:51,269 like Kevin O'Leary, who had been a fellow crypto critic. 1031 00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:53,896 - I'm not going to take real money and put it into this thing. 1032 00:53:53,897 --> 00:53:56,649 It's never going to happen. It's such a scam. 1033 00:53:56,650 --> 00:54:00,278 [V.O.] This was before he signed a $10 million deal with FTX. 1034 00:54:00,279 --> 00:54:03,114 - I am a paid spokesperson for FTX. 1035 00:54:03,115 --> 00:54:06,075 I did a lot of due diligence before I accepted that position. 1036 00:54:06,076 --> 00:54:10,163 [V.O.] Sam wanted to make crypto easier, friendlier, and safer. 1037 00:54:10,164 --> 00:54:14,333 And he knew that in order to do that, you need to build trust. 1038 00:54:14,334 --> 00:54:17,545 - Mr. Bankman-Fried, you are now recognized 1039 00:54:17,546 --> 00:54:20,841 for five minutes to present your oral testimony. 1040 00:54:21,884 --> 00:54:25,094 - Thank you, Chair Waters, Ranking Member McHenry. 1041 00:54:25,095 --> 00:54:26,929 It's an honor to be here. 1042 00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:30,933 I think that the industry has the potential 1043 00:54:30,934 --> 00:54:34,729 to improve a lot of people's lives. And I think it is important 1044 00:54:34,730 --> 00:54:38,775 and I think that it's healthy that the industry will be regulated. 1045 00:54:38,776 --> 00:54:41,527 - Crypto executives poured more than $30 million 1046 00:54:41,528 --> 00:54:45,156 into political campaigns since the 2020 election cycle. 1047 00:54:45,157 --> 00:54:48,409 - There is a new and exciting industry 1048 00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:50,703 in the United States of cryptocurrency, 1049 00:54:50,704 --> 00:54:52,914 whether Bitcoin or otherwise. 1050 00:54:52,915 --> 00:54:55,291 - I buy Bitcoin and I hold Bitcoin. 1051 00:54:55,292 --> 00:54:56,542 - You buy Bitcoin? - Oh yeah. 1052 00:54:56,543 --> 00:54:58,211 - You have Bitcoin? - I do. 1053 00:54:58,212 --> 00:55:01,547 [V.O.] Sam was playing the Washington game to perfection 1054 00:55:01,548 --> 00:55:03,174 and buying the trust he needed 1055 00:55:03,175 --> 00:55:06,053 to take crypto even further into the mainstream. 1056 00:55:06,929 --> 00:55:09,972 - What does this technology FTX uses 1057 00:55:09,973 --> 00:55:13,601 to protect from fraud and manipulation look like? 1058 00:55:13,602 --> 00:55:16,229 - We have surveillance for unusual trading activity. 1059 00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:19,232 We have manual inspections of anything that you know gets flagged 1060 00:55:19,233 --> 00:55:23,277 either by the automated surveillance or by manual inspection. 1061 00:55:23,278 --> 00:55:27,198 - Sounds like you're doing a lot to, uh, make sure there is no fraud 1062 00:55:27,199 --> 00:55:28,826 or other manipulation. 1063 00:55:28,951 --> 00:55:30,702 I thank you, Mr. Bankman-Fried. 1064 00:55:31,787 --> 00:55:33,496 [V.O.] I had to talk to him. 1065 00:55:33,497 --> 00:55:35,833 So I did the only thing I knew how to do. 1066 00:55:38,293 --> 00:55:39,545 I DM'd him on Twitter. 1067 00:55:43,465 --> 00:55:44,550 It was a long shot. 1068 00:55:52,349 --> 00:55:53,183 Look at this. 1069 00:55:54,685 --> 00:55:57,103 Finally freeing up a bit. Had a crazy week. 1070 00:55:57,104 --> 00:55:59,439 Just got back from testifying in D.C. 1071 00:56:00,774 --> 00:56:05,028 I'm *** at FTX .com if you want to reach out there. 1072 00:56:09,616 --> 00:56:10,742 ♪ agreed. 1073 00:56:45,068 --> 00:56:46,527 It's Limoncello. 1074 00:56:46,528 --> 00:56:48,112 What is Limoncello, actually? 1075 00:56:48,113 --> 00:56:50,656 It's like the, you know, the Italian liqueur. 1076 00:56:50,657 --> 00:56:52,116 There's alcohol in it. 1077 00:56:52,117 --> 00:56:54,118 But they flavored it that way. I don't know. 1078 00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:55,411 It's actually kind of interesting. 1079 00:56:55,412 --> 00:56:56,871 - Don't mind it. - Yeah, okay. 1080 00:56:56,872 --> 00:56:58,415 It was the only one I had at the house. 1081 00:56:58,540 --> 00:57:00,792 - I was like, mm, we'll try it. - No, it works. 1082 00:57:02,002 --> 00:57:03,085 All right, you guys ready? 1083 00:57:03,086 --> 00:57:04,379 - You're good. - All right. 1084 00:57:05,255 --> 00:57:07,006 Sam Bankman-Fried. 1085 00:57:07,007 --> 00:57:08,591 Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. 1086 00:57:08,592 --> 00:57:09,676 Of course. 1087 00:57:09,593 --> 00:57:14,598 So, I had a conversation with Alex Mashinsky. 1088 00:57:14,723 --> 00:57:16,182 From Celsius. 1089 00:57:16,183 --> 00:57:17,642 - Yeah. - Yep. 1090 00:57:17,643 --> 00:57:22,271 I asked him how much real money is in crypto and he said 1091 00:57:22,272 --> 00:57:24,482 and he said 10% to 15%. 1092 00:57:24,483 --> 00:57:26,233 He said the rest is speculation. 1093 00:57:26,234 --> 00:57:28,569 Thanks. So as of today I think the number 1094 00:57:28,570 --> 00:57:31,948 of dollars in crypto have not changed massively between then and now. 1095 00:57:31,949 --> 00:57:33,950 One when perhaps they've lessened. 1096 00:57:33,951 --> 00:57:35,576 They certainly have not increased. 1097 00:57:35,577 --> 00:57:38,287 I don't think they've decreased massively though which 1098 00:57:38,288 --> 00:57:40,122 I think lines up with some of your thought that 1099 00:57:40,123 --> 00:57:41,916 like a lot of this was leveraged leaving the system. 1100 00:57:41,917 --> 00:57:43,834 Well, part of the problem if they haven't left is 1101 00:57:43,835 --> 00:57:45,504 that people can't get their money out. 1102 00:57:45,629 --> 00:57:47,923 Imagine this is a regulated bank. - Oh, yeah. 1103 00:57:48,048 --> 00:57:50,466 - This would be a big problem. - That would be a big problem. 1104 00:57:50,467 --> 00:57:53,719 This does not seem like the decentralized, 1105 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,639 democratized future of money that we were promised. 1106 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,599 I think we've seen all the major carnage 1107 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,685 in the crypto industry already. 1108 00:58:00,686 --> 00:58:03,646 I think that things are on a bit of a recovery path from here. 1109 00:58:03,647 --> 00:58:05,564 But to be honest, Sam, 1110 00:58:05,565 --> 00:58:09,986 it doesn't feel like it's creating a lot of good for people. 1111 00:58:09,987 --> 00:58:12,154 It feels like it's a net negative. 1112 00:58:12,155 --> 00:58:15,574 - Yeah, I think I disagree-- - Why? 1113 00:58:15,575 --> 00:58:17,452 - but I understand where you're coming from. 1114 00:58:17,953 --> 00:58:19,829 I think the bigger piece of this, 1115 00:58:19,830 --> 00:58:23,165 and probably the thing that is ultimately driving your belief, 1116 00:58:23,166 --> 00:58:26,877 is around ultimate use case. 1117 00:58:26,878 --> 00:58:29,213 Give me one use case. Give me one company that's 1118 00:58:29,214 --> 00:58:31,048 providing a good or a service utility. 1119 00:58:31,049 --> 00:58:32,550 First of all, it's just payments. 1120 00:58:32,551 --> 00:58:34,635 And I know this is a thing that gets talked about a lot, 1121 00:58:34,636 --> 00:58:36,470 but I do think that there is real 1122 00:58:36,471 --> 00:58:39,724 potential there to make payments a lot cleaner. 1123 00:58:39,725 --> 00:58:43,644 Remittances are, you know, really, really expensive. 1124 00:58:43,645 --> 00:58:45,813 Well, I just want to, sorry, I just want to be really quick, 1125 00:58:45,814 --> 00:58:48,524 because we went to El Salvador. - Yep. 1126 00:58:48,525 --> 00:58:49,650 - It's not being used. 1127 00:58:49,651 --> 00:58:51,485 It's less than 2%. - Yep. 1128 00:58:51,486 --> 00:58:54,155 - So how does that work as payments or as remittances? 1129 00:58:54,156 --> 00:58:55,740 It's not working. 1130 00:58:55,741 --> 00:58:57,199 I agree it's not working today. 1131 00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,286 I think it could get there in the next five years. 1132 00:59:00,287 --> 00:59:01,455 Inshallah. 1133 00:59:01,204 --> 00:59:03,707 But, you know, I think it's not there today. 1134 00:59:03,832 --> 00:59:05,916 I think there are real reasons it's not there today. 1135 00:59:05,917 --> 00:59:08,210 But people are buying it as an investment. 1136 00:59:08,211 --> 00:59:10,004 They think it's going to make them money. 1137 00:59:10,005 --> 00:59:12,048 Isn't that what you're seeing? I mean, you run a big exchange. 1138 00:59:12,049 --> 00:59:14,550 You have a big trading firm. Isn't that what people are doing? 1139 00:59:14,551 --> 00:59:17,845 Are they doing it to pay for things, or are they using it to gamble? 1140 00:59:17,846 --> 00:59:21,557 The majority of people today are not using it as a payment field. 1141 00:59:21,558 --> 00:59:25,102 The majority of people today are using it just as a financial asset. 1142 00:59:25,103 --> 00:59:27,938 But my belief is that over the next five to 10 years, 1143 00:59:27,939 --> 00:59:29,774 we are going to see 1144 00:59:29,775 --> 00:59:33,527 blockchain grow in a few different use cases and start 1145 00:59:33,528 --> 00:59:36,113 to provide more and more actual utility to people. 1146 00:59:36,114 --> 00:59:38,157 If I didn't think that was true, 1147 00:59:38,158 --> 00:59:41,035 that would significantly change my belief 1148 00:59:41,036 --> 00:59:43,871 about the crypto ecosystem overall. 1149 00:59:43,872 --> 00:59:46,707 Your belief system seems to be driven somewhat 1150 00:59:46,708 --> 00:59:49,418 by the fact that you've made so much money. 1151 00:59:49,419 --> 00:59:52,004 You want to do the most good for the most people. 1152 00:59:52,005 --> 00:59:54,423 But when I look at the crypto industry, 1153 00:59:54,424 --> 00:59:59,303 it feels like it's driven by getting retail customers, regular people, 1154 00:59:59,304 --> 01:00:01,639 into the crypto casinos to gamble. 1155 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,433 Some of them make money. Most of them don't. 1156 01:00:04,434 --> 01:00:06,602 What do you say to the people that have lost money? 1157 01:00:06,603 --> 01:00:08,813 Millions of people have lost money now. 1158 01:00:08,814 --> 01:00:10,606 Some of them can't' access their money. 1159 01:00:10,607 --> 01:00:11,941 Like, what do you say to those people? 1160 01:00:11,942 --> 01:00:15,069 So, I mean, that was really bad. 1161 01:00:15,070 --> 01:00:18,030 I'm, you know, like, it sucks. 1162 01:00:18,031 --> 01:00:19,783 Maybe one question you can ask is, 1163 01:00:20,158 --> 01:00:22,660 is the system set up today such that 1164 01:00:22,661 --> 01:00:25,454 the regular person can get enough information 1165 01:00:25,455 --> 01:00:27,289 and transparency and comfort? 1166 01:00:27,290 --> 01:00:30,668 And I think that, like, the answer is basically no. 1167 01:00:30,669 --> 01:00:32,920 There needs to be more oversight. 1168 01:00:32,921 --> 01:00:34,505 There needs to be more transparency. 1169 01:00:34,506 --> 01:00:36,298 Speaking of regulation, 1170 01:00:36,299 --> 01:00:39,552 I think something like $30 million has been spent over the last 1171 01:00:39,553 --> 01:00:42,638 six months or a year towards influencing regulators 1172 01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:44,141 and politicians. 1173 01:00:43,849 --> 01:00:47,477 I think that this is a very dangerous thing that we're playing with here. 1174 01:00:47,602 --> 01:00:53,190 So most of what I'm doing for crypto regulation is not contributions. 1175 01:00:53,191 --> 01:00:56,361 It's going and talking to people in D.C. 1176 01:00:56,486 --> 01:00:59,614 and having meetings, trying to explain as much as I can, 1177 01:00:59,739 --> 01:01:04,702 trying to point out the parts that I think most need oversight. 1178 01:01:04,703 --> 01:01:07,621 When you look at the contributions that I've made, 1179 01:01:07,622 --> 01:01:10,457 most of those have to do with pandemic preparedness. 1180 01:01:10,458 --> 01:01:13,043 Totally unrelated to my day job. 1181 01:01:13,044 --> 01:01:14,963 How much money have you donated to things like that? 1182 01:01:15,922 --> 01:01:22,511 I want to say ballpark, um, 50 to a 100 million. 1183 01:01:22,512 --> 01:01:23,763 Wow. 1184 01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:26,349 - 50 to a 100 million to pandemic. - Yeah, that's right. 1185 01:01:26,474 --> 01:01:28,142 - How much have you donated to politicians? 1186 01:01:28,143 --> 01:01:30,394 So, I... 1187 01:01:30,395 --> 01:01:31,896 I... 1188 01:01:31,897 --> 01:01:34,441 um... 1189 01:01:34,566 --> 01:01:37,484 I don't remember, I can get back to you on that, 1190 01:01:37,485 --> 01:01:38,986 I don't remember the latest figure off the top of my head. 1191 01:01:38,987 --> 01:01:40,029 I'll just give you like a round number. 1192 01:01:40,030 --> 01:01:40,946 Ballpark. 1193 01:01:40,947 --> 01:01:41,948 I think... 1194 01:01:42,908 --> 01:01:43,909 um... 1195 01:01:44,868 --> 01:01:46,577 I think that... you know, 1196 01:01:46,578 --> 01:01:48,704 in the tens of millions is-- 1197 01:01:48,705 --> 01:01:52,959 is where total political contributions have been so far. 1198 01:01:53,627 --> 01:01:55,962 - Sam, you really need to. - Okay, got it, yeah. 1199 01:01:56,671 --> 01:01:58,214 - Thanks for taking the time. - Thank you. 1200 01:01:58,215 --> 01:02:00,591 - Appreciate it. Can we do a picture? 1201 01:02:00,592 --> 01:02:03,928 - Is that possible? - Yeah, let me just check where... 1202 01:02:03,929 --> 01:02:06,764 - Oh, sure, sure, sure. - Yes, but I have to do it quickly. 1203 01:02:06,765 --> 01:02:08,974 No, no, that's fine. We don't need to do anything. 1204 01:02:08,975 --> 01:02:10,518 Let's see, where is it? 1205 01:02:11,186 --> 01:02:12,020 Yep. 1206 01:02:13,230 --> 01:02:14,272 Ah, there you go. 1207 01:02:15,106 --> 01:02:16,607 Alright, um... 1208 01:02:16,608 --> 01:02:18,735 Awesome, thank you, sorry. 1209 01:02:27,869 --> 01:02:30,747 - The nature of fraud is that it's a magic trick. 1210 01:02:31,081 --> 01:02:35,417 It's the creation of facades that look utterly convincing, 1211 01:02:35,418 --> 01:02:37,837 but only when viewed from the right angle. 1212 01:02:38,672 --> 01:02:42,675 The fraudster needs to know where the audience is going to be looking 1213 01:02:42,676 --> 01:02:46,680 to make sure the nefarious action is taking place somewhere else. 1214 01:02:57,816 --> 01:02:59,733 You wrote a book on fraud. 1215 01:02:59,734 --> 01:03:00,944 Yeah. 1216 01:03:00,652 --> 01:03:02,946 - I'm not crazy, am I? - Let me put it this way. 1217 01:03:03,071 --> 01:03:07,575 If you were going to set up something entirely fake as a scam, 1218 01:03:08,285 --> 01:03:10,369 what would you do different? - Right. 1219 01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:12,914 - There's only a few ways to do a fraud. 1220 01:03:13,957 --> 01:03:18,168 You can borrow money or take cash on the promise 1221 01:03:18,169 --> 01:03:20,964 of delivering something in the future and not deliver it. 1222 01:03:21,339 --> 01:03:22,674 - Ponzi scheme. - Exactly. 1223 01:03:22,632 --> 01:03:26,386 And you can bring people into something that looks like 1224 01:03:26,511 --> 01:03:31,057 a normal web of trust but, in fact, is completely controlled by you. 1225 01:03:31,433 --> 01:03:34,768 One of the things that is so fascinating to me about crypto 1226 01:03:34,769 --> 01:03:37,771 is that... the real con is just 1227 01:03:37,772 --> 01:03:39,649 getting them to give you the real money in the first place. 1228 01:03:39,774 --> 01:03:41,151 Once they give you the real money, 1229 01:03:41,276 --> 01:03:43,152 then the computer screens can say whatever the computer 1230 01:03:43,153 --> 01:03:44,237 screen wants to say. 1231 01:03:44,154 --> 01:03:46,406 Absolutely. You know, when you've got, like, 1232 01:03:46,573 --> 01:03:51,994 $100 in your bank account at JP Morgan or wherever, 1233 01:03:51,995 --> 01:03:53,412 that's just a number. 1234 01:03:53,413 --> 01:03:56,958 But those are magic numbers that have a particular system 1235 01:03:57,083 --> 01:04:01,003 that we've all grown up with since the 18th century. 1236 01:04:01,004 --> 01:04:05,966 But these crypto guys have come up with their own magic numbers. 1237 01:04:05,967 --> 01:04:10,554 And you still need to have that trust that at some point, 1238 01:04:10,555 --> 01:04:15,017 someone's going to exchange your imaginary money for dollar bills. 1239 01:04:15,018 --> 01:04:18,103 And they say trust the code, but code doesn't fall from the sky. 1240 01:04:18,104 --> 01:04:20,189 - People write code. - Exactly. 1241 01:04:20,190 --> 01:04:24,943 Fraud is a weird crime in that it has a time dimension. 1242 01:04:24,944 --> 01:04:28,030 There is a period of time during which 1243 01:04:28,031 --> 01:04:31,450 the thief knows that he's stolen the money, 1244 01:04:31,451 --> 01:04:34,496 but the victim doesn't know that he's lost it. 1245 01:04:35,705 --> 01:04:37,790 Is there something about... 1246 01:04:37,791 --> 01:04:40,376 fraudsters that makes them different from other criminals? 1247 01:04:40,377 --> 01:04:41,461 Yeah. 1248 01:04:41,378 --> 01:04:44,089 They've got something psychologically in them, 1249 01:04:44,214 --> 01:04:48,467 which the criminologists call a rationalization. 1250 01:04:48,468 --> 01:04:54,223 They don't see themselves as deviant members of society. 1251 01:04:54,224 --> 01:04:58,185 And so that means that they have to 1252 01:04:58,186 --> 01:05:02,398 come up with a story that they can tell themselves, 1253 01:05:02,399 --> 01:05:05,484 which reconciles what they're doing 1254 01:05:05,485 --> 01:05:09,863 with their self-image as a normal member of society. 1255 01:05:09,864 --> 01:05:13,450 I do love my country and my people, 1256 01:05:13,451 --> 01:05:16,370 and I want them to thrive and to succeed. 1257 01:05:16,371 --> 01:05:18,122 - We put the community first, right? 1258 01:05:18,123 --> 01:05:22,167 So we do everything for our community, and they know it. 1259 01:05:22,168 --> 01:05:26,840 In the end, my goal is to do as much good as I can for the world. 1260 01:05:28,425 --> 01:05:30,342 The biggest lie is the lie you tell yourself. 1261 01:05:30,343 --> 01:05:32,220 Absolutely. 1262 01:05:32,345 --> 01:05:33,972 Well, as an actor, I can relate to that. 1263 01:05:35,348 --> 01:05:37,809 But I mean, all of crypto can't be a scam, right? 1264 01:05:40,186 --> 01:05:42,021 I don't like that what counts. 1265 01:05:47,235 --> 01:05:50,779 [V.O.] I'd listened to the false stories of crypto for long enough. 1266 01:05:50,780 --> 01:05:52,948 It was time for me to speak up. 1267 01:05:52,949 --> 01:05:55,201 So I embarked upon a campaign of my own. 1268 01:05:55,827 --> 01:05:58,412 - Hey, Ben. Good morning. Thanks so much for joining us. 1269 01:05:58,413 --> 01:05:59,830 We have about 2 minutes until we're live. 1270 01:05:59,831 --> 01:06:01,206 - Ok, great. - We hear you loud and clear, 1271 01:06:01,207 --> 01:06:02,625 so we should be all set. - Great. 1272 01:06:03,376 --> 01:06:04,919 - Thank you. 1273 01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:07,881 Hey guys, guys can you keep it down, please? 1274 01:06:08,089 --> 01:06:09,048 Thank you. 1275 01:06:11,092 --> 01:06:12,510 Sure, that's my favorite question. 1276 01:06:12,886 --> 01:06:13,761 It's very simple. 1277 01:06:14,137 --> 01:06:15,763 They were paid in real money 1278 01:06:16,473 --> 01:06:18,850 to convince you to take your real money 1279 01:06:18,975 --> 01:06:21,102 and turn it into something else. 1280 01:06:21,227 --> 01:06:23,396 [V.O.] I hit every outlet that would have me. 1281 01:06:23,605 --> 01:06:24,814 What troubled me about crypto 1282 01:06:24,647 --> 01:06:26,441 and the reason I felt like I had to speak out was 1283 01:06:26,566 --> 01:06:29,401 - it's exploited an understandable mistrust 1284 01:06:29,402 --> 01:06:31,820 or lack of trust with our regulated system. 1285 01:06:31,821 --> 01:06:35,032 The winners are far fewer than the losers. 1286 01:06:35,033 --> 01:06:37,409 It's being sold to the average American 1287 01:06:37,410 --> 01:06:39,203 as the way to make money, but-- 1288 01:06:39,204 --> 01:06:41,038 you know, what's really going on here? 1289 01:06:41,039 --> 01:06:42,248 How much of this is real, 1290 01:06:42,207 --> 01:06:45,251 and how much of this has been artificially inflated? 1291 01:06:45,502 --> 01:06:47,670 [V.O.] The crypto trolls were big mad. 1292 01:06:48,004 --> 01:06:51,715 - He's becoming this new advocate against crypto and I'm like, 1293 01:06:51,716 --> 01:06:53,217 what is going on with this guy? 1294 01:06:53,218 --> 01:06:55,969 - First red flag was actually the word currency. 1295 01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:57,222 Ben McKenzie. 1296 01:06:57,055 --> 01:06:58,848 If you guys don't know who Ben McKenzie is, 1297 01:06:58,973 --> 01:07:01,767 he's now a financial guru. Just kidding. 1298 01:07:01,768 --> 01:07:04,102 - One of the most important things for people 1299 01:07:04,103 --> 01:07:07,940 to understand about cryptocurrency is that most of the volume 1300 01:07:07,941 --> 01:07:10,609 that you see on the exchanges is fake. 1301 01:07:10,610 --> 01:07:11,903 It doesn't exist. 1302 01:07:11,694 --> 01:07:14,113 - Just say you don't understand crypto and move on. 1303 01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:17,450 - Is it possible that your hostility to crypto 1304 01:07:20,411 --> 01:07:22,579 - If you say I haven't done enough research, 1305 01:07:22,580 --> 01:07:25,624 my response to you is f*** you. 1306 01:07:25,625 --> 01:07:29,253 I've interviewed the head of your entire industry. 1307 01:07:29,254 --> 01:07:31,713 - Did you see how upset he got? 1308 01:07:31,714 --> 01:07:33,049 - Who am I supposed to believe? 1309 01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:35,927 The CEO of the largest asset manager on planet Earth? 1310 01:07:36,052 --> 01:07:38,595 Or this actor that plays a cop on TV? 1311 01:07:38,596 --> 01:07:41,723 - But it really is only useful for gambling 1312 01:07:41,724 --> 01:07:43,684 and for criminal activity. 1313 01:07:43,685 --> 01:07:45,602 - Well, this is what I gotta say about Ben McKenzie. 1314 01:07:45,603 --> 01:07:48,522 Ben McKenzie, put your money where your mouth is. 1315 01:07:48,523 --> 01:07:52,276 - Ben gets no raisins. None. Not raisin worthy. 1316 01:07:52,277 --> 01:07:55,779 - And a lot of shady dudes end up making most of the money. 1317 01:07:55,780 --> 01:07:58,407 - It seems like someone is just hurt. 1318 01:07:58,408 --> 01:07:59,741 And I feel bad for Ben McKenzie, 1319 01:07:59,742 --> 01:08:01,660 because he's saying all of these things. 1320 01:08:01,661 --> 01:08:03,829 And then people are gonna look back and say, 1321 01:08:03,830 --> 01:08:06,165 why did Ben McKenzie lead me in the wrong direction? 1322 01:08:19,429 --> 01:08:21,805 What are you doing? I thought you were coming to bed. 1323 01:08:21,806 --> 01:08:23,349 Yeah, I am 1324 01:08:30,648 --> 01:08:33,151 - Can you let yourself out? - Yeah, sure 1325 01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,473 Dude, dude. Come here. Come here, come on. 1326 01:09:04,474 --> 01:09:08,061 Wait, what are we, I need to mic you up man. 1327 01:09:08,895 --> 01:09:11,021 - But I-- You know what? 1328 01:09:11,022 --> 01:09:13,315 I've been reporting for 35 years 1329 01:09:13,316 --> 01:09:15,984 and even though Henry Silverman said-- 1330 01:09:15,985 --> 01:09:17,069 - Oh. 1331 01:09:17,070 --> 01:09:18,905 - Bro. - Holy Shit. 1332 01:09:20,573 --> 01:09:24,576 - The exchange FTX filed for bankruptcy protection today. 1333 01:09:24,577 --> 01:09:28,455 - has fallen crypto king, Sam Bankman-Fried stepped down as CEO. 1334 01:09:28,456 --> 01:09:29,831 - This is not a good investment. 1335 01:09:29,832 --> 01:09:33,836 My account has a zero in it and there are no accounting records. 1336 01:09:34,212 --> 01:09:36,798 Where did the money go? 1337 01:09:37,173 --> 01:09:39,508 [V.O.] At 4:30 a.m. on November 11th, 1338 01:09:39,509 --> 01:09:42,594 under pressure from lawyers, creditors, and colleagues, 1339 01:09:42,595 --> 01:09:45,264 Sam signed over control of FTX. 1340 01:09:45,807 --> 01:09:48,767 Millions of investors were left searching for answers. 1341 01:09:48,768 --> 01:09:51,645 - Let's go with the opposite. Let's talk about all the people 1342 01:09:51,646 --> 01:09:56,109 who really were drawn to this as moths to flame. 1343 01:09:56,818 --> 01:09:59,444 [V.O.] Despite the collapse, the crypto community was quick 1344 01:09:59,445 --> 01:10:02,155 to turn the blame back on the victims. 1345 01:10:02,156 --> 01:10:04,991 - If you are still keeping your crypto on an exchange 1346 01:10:04,992 --> 01:10:07,119 and you're not trading it, you're doing something wrong. 1347 01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,246 - It's a dumb idea. You don't do that. 1348 01:10:09,247 --> 01:10:11,707 It's stupid. You bring it home where it's safe. 1349 01:10:11,708 --> 01:10:13,750 [V.O.] And no matter what happened at the market, 1350 01:10:13,751 --> 01:10:16,294 the booster's belief in crypto would remain unscathed. 1351 01:10:16,295 --> 01:10:18,338 - Just like the collapse of Lehman Brothers or Enron 1352 01:10:18,339 --> 01:10:20,132 didn't stop the stock markets, 1353 01:10:20,133 --> 01:10:22,342 FTX will not stop crypto. 1354 01:10:22,343 --> 01:10:25,721 - Cryptocurrency, the blockchain, it's all still here. 1355 01:10:25,722 --> 01:10:27,597 Let me just remind you, it's all still here. 1356 01:10:27,598 --> 01:10:30,267 It's not going anywhere. Not at all. 1357 01:10:30,268 --> 01:10:33,062 Please make sure to like, subscribe, share this... 1358 01:10:36,733 --> 01:10:40,152 [V.O.] But no matter how hard boosters push the story of crypto, 1359 01:10:40,153 --> 01:10:42,155 they can't make that story true. 1360 01:10:43,072 --> 01:10:44,115 Because it isn't. 1361 01:10:46,492 --> 01:10:49,244 The collapse of FTX was a clear warning sign 1362 01:10:49,245 --> 01:10:52,122 that mixing crypto with our regulated financial system 1363 01:10:52,123 --> 01:10:54,041 could only end terribly. 1364 01:10:54,834 --> 01:10:58,588 It only takes one big bank to fall for the others to follow suit. 1365 01:10:59,589 --> 01:11:01,923 It nearly happened with the subprime crisis, 1366 01:11:01,924 --> 01:11:04,010 and it could easily happen again. 1367 01:11:05,178 --> 01:11:09,682 When trust breaks, everything can fall apart shockingly fast. 1368 01:11:10,057 --> 01:11:13,769 And crypto, which has never proven itself trustworthy, 1369 01:11:13,770 --> 01:11:16,314 has the ability to wreak havoc on us all. 1370 01:11:22,945 --> 01:11:24,697 - Raina? - Yeah? 1371 01:11:25,990 --> 01:11:26,824 Wolf? 1372 01:11:28,993 --> 01:11:30,203 - I'm upstairs. 1373 01:11:30,328 --> 01:11:31,204 Yeah? 1374 01:11:32,538 --> 01:11:33,372 Hey. 1375 01:11:34,081 --> 01:11:35,082 Look. 1376 01:11:36,876 --> 01:11:38,419 Wait, what is this? 1377 01:11:41,839 --> 01:11:44,174 Oh my god. Wow. 1378 01:11:44,175 --> 01:11:45,593 Wait, how did this happen? 1379 01:11:46,719 --> 01:11:47,637 You know. 1380 01:11:48,596 --> 01:11:49,763 Wow. 1381 01:11:49,764 --> 01:11:51,307 Frankie, come check this out. 1382 01:11:54,811 --> 01:11:56,813 Hey, look. 1383 01:11:58,022 --> 01:11:59,649 Look, see what that says? 1384 01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:02,025 Dear Mr. Shankin, 1385 01:12:02,026 --> 01:12:06,780 I invite you to appear before the commentee? 1386 01:12:06,781 --> 01:12:07,990 Committee? 1387 01:12:07,782 --> 01:12:11,911 Committee on Baking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. 1388 01:12:12,286 --> 01:12:15,705 I get to testify at a hearing. 1389 01:12:15,706 --> 01:12:17,958 I get to go to the United States Senate. 1390 01:12:17,959 --> 01:12:19,251 Do you know what the United States? - What's that? 1391 01:12:19,252 --> 01:12:21,253 - It's like the government, where the government is. 1392 01:12:21,254 --> 01:12:22,712 And I get to talk to the people in charge 1393 01:12:22,713 --> 01:12:24,714 and tell them to fix this mess. 1394 01:12:24,715 --> 01:12:26,592 What's going to happen here? What are you going to do about this? 1395 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:34,307 ♪ Which way, America? ♪ 1396 01:12:34,308 --> 01:12:38,687 - Ooh, sorry. - ♪ Which way, America? ♪ 1397 01:12:38,688 --> 01:12:42,774 - Daddy, what's up? - ♪ Which way, America? ♪ 1398 01:12:42,775 --> 01:12:46,319 - How do I look? - Better? 1399 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,155 - Did you say no? - Yes, I did. 1400 01:12:49,156 --> 01:12:54,202 Ow! - What? Oh. That was not nice. 1401 01:12:54,203 --> 01:12:56,121 That was not nice. 1402 01:12:56,122 --> 01:12:59,708 ♪ Which way America is going to go. ♪ 1403 01:12:59,709 --> 01:13:03,336 ♪ There is many a road to travel ♪ 1404 01:13:03,337 --> 01:13:06,590 ♪ many a hill to climb ♪ 1405 01:13:06,591 --> 01:13:09,426 ♪ I'm going to find the straightest road ♪ 1406 01:13:09,427 --> 01:13:12,763 ♪ and walk it to the end of time! ♪ 1407 01:13:13,514 --> 01:13:18,977 ♪ Which way, America? Which way, America? ♪ 1408 01:13:18,978 --> 01:13:25,108 ♪ Which way, America? Which was to go? ♪ 1409 01:13:25,109 --> 01:13:27,944 ♪ This is my country land ♪ 1410 01:13:27,945 --> 01:13:30,989 ♪ I want to know ♪ 1411 01:13:30,990 --> 01:13:36,245 ♪ which way America is going to go. ♪ 1412 01:13:36,829 --> 01:13:38,122 You fucking kidding me? 1413 01:13:51,052 --> 01:13:53,261 The Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs will come to order. 1414 01:13:53,262 --> 01:13:55,681 Thank you for the witnesses joining us today. 1415 01:13:56,098 --> 01:13:58,517 In this story, Bankman-Fried was the shiny object. 1416 01:13:58,643 --> 01:14:00,478 Now he's the villain, possibly worse. 1417 01:14:00,603 --> 01:14:03,688 But this story is bigger than one person or one firm, 1418 01:14:03,689 --> 01:14:05,398 and that's the point of this hearing. 1419 01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:07,067 In our discussion of FTX today, 1420 01:14:07,068 --> 01:14:10,403 I hope we're able to separate the likely illegal actions 1421 01:14:10,404 --> 01:14:13,532 from perfectly lawful and innovative cryptocurrencies. 1422 01:14:13,783 --> 01:14:16,826 There is the risk of investing in crypto, 1423 01:14:16,827 --> 01:14:19,871 and then there's also the risk of not investing in it, 1424 01:14:19,872 --> 01:14:22,374 and letting others accrue it's benefits first. 1425 01:14:22,375 --> 01:14:25,001 So, we need to get to the bottom of what happened to FTX, 1426 01:14:25,002 --> 01:14:28,129 but we can't let is collapse cause us to abandon 1427 01:14:28,130 --> 01:14:30,006 the great promise 1428 01:14:30,007 --> 01:14:31,549 and potential 1429 01:14:31,550 --> 01:14:33,052 of crypto. 1430 01:14:33,761 --> 01:14:36,555 [V.O.] I was up against the usual talking points. 1431 01:14:36,722 --> 01:14:38,140 But this wasn't YouTube. 1432 01:14:38,474 --> 01:14:39,558 It was Congress, 1433 01:14:40,101 --> 01:14:41,477 and that pissed me off. 1434 01:14:41,978 --> 01:14:45,563 - Chairman Brown, Ranking Member Toomey, members of the committee. 1435 01:14:45,564 --> 01:14:47,899 The demise of FTX and Alameda 1436 01:14:47,900 --> 01:14:51,152 represent the most spectacular corporate downfall 1437 01:14:51,153 --> 01:14:53,863 since Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme imploded 1438 01:14:53,864 --> 01:14:56,324 in the wake of the great financial crisis. 1439 01:14:56,325 --> 01:14:58,576 It has captured the nation's attention. 1440 01:14:58,577 --> 01:15:02,415 FTX owe enormous sums to supposedly sophisticated investors. 1441 01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:05,543 They also owe a lot of money to regular people. 1442 01:15:06,460 --> 01:15:11,965 I believe they, and the estimated 40 million other Americans, 1443 01:15:11,966 --> 01:15:14,384 who have invested in cryptocurrency 1444 01:15:14,385 --> 01:15:16,052 have been lied to 1445 01:15:16,053 --> 01:15:18,972 by a once seemingly mighty crypto industry 1446 01:15:18,973 --> 01:15:21,975 whose entire existence, in fact, depends 1447 01:15:21,976 --> 01:15:24,394 on misinformation, hype, 1448 01:15:24,395 --> 01:15:26,480 and yes, fraud. 1449 01:15:27,982 --> 01:15:29,608 In my opinion, 1450 01:15:29,734 --> 01:15:31,318 the cryptocurrency industry 1451 01:15:32,069 --> 01:15:35,363 represents the largest Ponzi scheme in history. 1452 01:15:35,364 --> 01:15:38,199 The fact that it has roped in tens of millions of Americans 1453 01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:39,535 from all walks of life, 1454 01:15:40,161 --> 01:15:42,830 as well as hundreds of millions of people 1455 01:15:43,581 --> 01:15:45,916 worldwide should be of concern to us all. 1456 01:15:46,083 --> 01:15:48,376 Thank you for your time. I look forward to your question. 1457 01:15:48,377 --> 01:15:49,462 Thank you. 1458 01:15:49,295 --> 01:15:51,964 And is it Mr. Schenkkan, McKenzie Schenkkan? 1459 01:15:52,715 --> 01:15:54,799 Yes, sir. You can also call me Ryan Atwood from The O.C. 1460 01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,593 All right. All right. Well, in that case, listen, 1461 01:15:56,594 --> 01:15:59,471 what is this backed by, if I could ask you? 1462 01:15:59,472 --> 01:16:02,015 What is this backed by at the end of the day? 1463 01:16:02,016 --> 01:16:03,642 Nothing. It's a story. 1464 01:16:04,602 --> 01:16:06,729 The story has understandable appeal. 1465 01:16:07,063 --> 01:16:09,648 I think if crypto serves any function, 1466 01:16:09,774 --> 01:16:13,861 it's to highlight the myriad failures of our regulated system 1467 01:16:14,528 --> 01:16:16,864 and our American economic system, 1468 01:16:16,989 --> 01:16:21,911 to provide people with a fair shot at the American dream. 1469 01:16:22,620 --> 01:16:26,791 That does not make the story true, however, the story of cryptocurrency. 1470 01:16:27,458 --> 01:16:30,252 What it does is lend it enormous power, 1471 01:16:30,795 --> 01:16:34,090 and these stories spread like viruses. 1472 01:16:35,132 --> 01:16:36,801 People get very excited, 1473 01:16:37,051 --> 01:16:39,094 these bubbles build up very big, 1474 01:16:39,095 --> 01:16:41,262 but then they collapse very swiftly, 1475 01:16:41,263 --> 01:16:43,389 and I think that's what we're seeing now today. 1476 01:16:43,390 --> 01:16:47,019 [V.O.] I'd said my piece, but it was too late to convince some. 1477 01:16:47,269 --> 01:16:48,562 They were in too deep. 1478 01:16:48,687 --> 01:16:51,482 - Uh, digital assets are not on trial. 1479 01:16:51,607 --> 01:16:52,983 Fraud... 1480 01:16:53,442 --> 01:16:55,486 and organizations... 1481 01:16:55,903 --> 01:16:57,530 are on trial. 1482 01:16:57,905 --> 01:16:59,322 - I want to ask the rest of you, 1483 01:16:59,323 --> 01:17:01,908 if we don't ban it, how do we regulate it, 1484 01:17:01,909 --> 01:17:03,743 isolate it from the banking system, 1485 01:17:03,744 --> 01:17:05,954 and then define it as a security? 1486 01:17:05,955 --> 01:17:09,165 Does anybody disagree with that or have any other ideas 1487 01:17:09,166 --> 01:17:11,335 about how it would be regulated? Mr. O 'Leary. 1488 01:17:11,544 --> 01:17:14,337 - The concept of passing legislation 1489 01:17:14,338 --> 01:17:17,382 that would ban banks from integrating cryptocurrencies 1490 01:17:17,383 --> 01:17:19,926 and crypto technology would make it 1491 01:17:19,927 --> 01:17:23,888 the most uncompetitive financial services sector in the world. 1492 01:17:23,889 --> 01:17:25,598 - So, let me just stop you there. I only have so much time. 1493 01:17:25,599 --> 01:17:28,518 So, you do not agree with isolating it from the banking system? 1494 01:17:28,519 --> 01:17:29,812 - I-- That's insanity. 1495 01:17:30,354 --> 01:17:33,731 - If we allow cryptocurrency to infect our banking system, 1496 01:17:33,732 --> 01:17:35,359 we will be back here. 1497 01:17:36,026 --> 01:17:37,527 - Thank you. - We will be back here, 1498 01:17:37,528 --> 01:17:38,863 not in a good way. 1499 01:17:49,999 --> 01:17:51,249 [V.O.] On the morning of March 12th, 1500 01:17:51,250 --> 01:17:53,793 as depositors raced to withdraw their money, 1501 01:17:53,794 --> 01:17:57,380 Signature Bank was shut down by the government before it could implode. 1502 01:17:57,381 --> 01:18:00,301 It was the third bank to go bust in just five days. 1503 01:18:01,218 --> 01:18:03,094 Want to guess what all three had in common? 1504 01:18:03,095 --> 01:18:04,637 - In the course of five days, 1505 01:18:04,638 --> 01:18:06,973 three banks have failed in the United States 1506 01:18:06,974 --> 01:18:09,225 and those lenders were critical counterparties 1507 01:18:09,226 --> 01:18:11,270 for a huge part of the crypto industry in the country. 1508 01:18:11,604 --> 01:18:12,813 [V.O.] Panic set in, 1509 01:18:12,688 --> 01:18:15,649 as no one knew just how many more banks might fall. 1510 01:18:16,567 --> 01:18:18,568 In the end, the government, 1511 01:18:18,569 --> 01:18:21,446 that super untrustworthy establishment that crypto 1512 01:18:21,447 --> 01:18:23,449 was supposedly rebelling against, 1513 01:18:23,782 --> 01:18:24,909 saved the day. 1514 01:18:25,576 --> 01:18:27,535 We, the American taxpayers, 1515 01:18:27,536 --> 01:18:28,870 bailed them out, 1516 01:18:28,871 --> 01:18:32,708 and customers were guaranteed all of their money back. 1517 01:18:32,833 --> 01:18:34,210 You're welcome, by the way. 1518 01:18:37,504 --> 01:18:41,216 - The jury has been selected in Sam Bankman-Fried's criminal trial, 1519 01:18:41,217 --> 01:18:43,593 and we do expect opening statements to start... 1520 01:18:43,594 --> 01:18:46,221 [V.O.] As for Sam, he was charged with wire fraud, 1521 01:18:46,222 --> 01:18:48,556 securities fraud, commodities fraud, 1522 01:18:48,557 --> 01:18:50,935 and good old-fashioned money laundering. 1523 01:18:52,144 --> 01:18:55,230 Oh, and the reason he was hazy on his political donations. 1524 01:18:55,231 --> 01:18:57,732 - I... I... 1525 01:18:57,733 --> 01:18:58,984 Um... 1526 01:18:59,151 --> 01:19:00,778 [V.O.] They were illegal. 1527 01:19:00,277 --> 01:19:03,864 - Regulators are now asking political campaigns to return the money. 1528 01:19:03,989 --> 01:19:07,992 They say that Bankman-Fried tried to buy bipartisan influence 1529 01:19:07,993 --> 01:19:11,955 and impact the direction of public policy in Washington. 1530 01:19:11,956 --> 01:19:15,250 [V.O.] After a month-long trial, it took a jury of his peers 1531 01:19:15,251 --> 01:19:18,002 only four hours to find him guilty on all charges. 1532 01:19:18,003 --> 01:19:20,129 - Do you have anything to say to your investors? 1533 01:19:20,130 --> 01:19:21,173 - Do you have anything to say? 1534 01:19:21,548 --> 01:19:24,260 [V.O.] Sam was sentenced to 25 years in prison. 1535 01:19:25,386 --> 01:19:27,680 How was he able to pull off his swindle? 1536 01:19:28,597 --> 01:19:30,349 Within the source code of FTX, 1537 01:19:30,474 --> 01:19:31,892 there were two lines that prevented 1538 01:19:32,017 --> 01:19:34,186 users from overdrawing their accounts, 1539 01:19:34,478 --> 01:19:38,106 but Sam instructed one of his employees to add a single line 1540 01:19:38,107 --> 01:19:39,565 allowing him to borrow, 1541 01:19:39,566 --> 01:19:41,109 aka steal, 1542 01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:43,779 as much money as he wanted from his customers. 1543 01:19:45,114 --> 01:19:47,116 It turns out you can't trust code, 1544 01:19:48,033 --> 01:19:49,743 only the people who write it. 1545 01:19:50,494 --> 01:19:53,079 - A lot of people look at you and see Bernie Madoff. 1546 01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:53,914 - Yeah. 1547 01:19:54,957 --> 01:19:58,626 I mean, I don't think that's who I am at all, 1548 01:19:58,627 --> 01:20:00,920 but I understand why they're saying that. 1549 01:20:00,921 --> 01:20:02,088 People lost money. 1550 01:20:02,089 --> 01:20:03,382 [V.O.] In the end, 1551 01:20:03,007 --> 01:20:05,759 Sam believed in the power of his own story so much, 1552 01:20:05,884 --> 01:20:07,636 he was willing to risk it all. 1553 01:20:24,778 --> 01:20:25,987 In the midst of this journey, 1554 01:20:25,988 --> 01:20:28,240 and with the help of my friend Jacob Silverman, 1555 01:20:28,365 --> 01:20:31,035 I wrote a book about everything I had learned. 1556 01:20:31,243 --> 01:20:32,702 And now with the tides turned, 1557 01:20:32,703 --> 01:20:35,914 people wanted to hear what a crypto skeptic had to say. 1558 01:20:38,667 --> 01:20:43,004 - You might recognize Ben McKenzie as Ryan Atwood from The O.C., 1559 01:20:43,005 --> 01:20:45,757 but lately he's taken on a new role. 1560 01:20:45,758 --> 01:20:48,968 - He's been a vocal critic of the cryptocurrency industry, 1561 01:20:48,969 --> 01:20:52,889 and his scrutiny has led him to challenge its flaws and shortcomings. 1562 01:20:52,890 --> 01:20:56,642 - He's now co-author of the new book entitled Easy Money. 1563 01:20:56,643 --> 01:21:01,314 - Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and The Golden Age of Fraud. 1564 01:21:01,315 --> 01:21:04,901 - How did that guy from the O.C. end up writing a book about crypto? 1565 01:21:04,902 --> 01:21:06,236 - Well, like most Americans, 1566 01:21:05,819 --> 01:21:07,946 I stumbled onto crypto through a friend of mine. 1567 01:21:08,739 --> 01:21:11,657 - The problem was this buddy who's been an old, old friend, 1568 01:21:11,658 --> 01:21:13,618 he gave me the worst financial advice of my life. 1569 01:21:13,619 --> 01:21:15,787 - When I was in my 20s, he... - And you remember it. 1570 01:21:15,788 --> 01:21:17,538 - Yeah, I remembered it. And I love him. 1571 01:21:17,539 --> 01:21:20,416 Dave, if you're out there, sorry to out you on CBS News, but... 1572 01:21:20,417 --> 01:21:22,627 - um, he said, you know, you should buy Bitcoin... 1573 01:21:22,628 --> 01:21:26,172 - The story is so effective, because we all agree on the premise 1574 01:21:26,173 --> 01:21:28,759 that our current financial system is deeply flawed. 1575 01:21:29,134 --> 01:21:32,011 And so that lends the story of cryptocurrency a lot of power, 1576 01:21:32,012 --> 01:21:34,555 but it doesn't make the story of cryptocurrency true. 1577 01:21:34,556 --> 01:21:35,891 [V.O.] Some people got the message. 1578 01:21:35,766 --> 01:21:38,727 - How many of you have seen this commercial starring Matt Damon? 1579 01:21:39,603 --> 01:21:43,314 Matt is not the only celebrity promoting cryptocurrency. 1580 01:21:43,315 --> 01:21:44,817 [V.O.] Some just didn't. 1581 01:21:45,067 --> 01:21:46,652 - You say you did a deep dive, 1582 01:21:46,443 --> 01:21:49,613 and it only took me about 20 pages of the Bitcoin standard to understand 1583 01:21:49,738 --> 01:21:52,323 how the un-bank could benefit from this. 1584 01:21:52,324 --> 01:21:55,077 You think all these firms will have egg on their face? 1585 01:21:56,120 --> 01:21:58,287 - The advertised, decentralized future of money 1586 01:21:58,288 --> 01:22:00,124 is brought to you by Blackrock? 1587 01:22:00,457 --> 01:22:02,708 - I don't know. Bla-- Maybe. They may... 1588 01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:05,628 I mean, if they think it's, uh, gold, 1589 01:22:05,629 --> 01:22:07,630 if they think-- You think it's going to zero? 1590 01:22:07,631 --> 01:22:10,174 - If... I can't predict the future anymore than anyone else. 1591 01:22:10,175 --> 01:22:12,468 - So, if you're an American sitting at home, 1592 01:22:12,469 --> 01:22:13,679 and you own cryptocurrency, 1593 01:22:13,470 --> 01:22:14,930 and there are millions of those Americans, 1594 01:22:14,763 --> 01:22:16,932 maybe those viewers right now, what's you advice to them? 1595 01:22:17,057 --> 01:22:19,016 - I am not here to offer financial advice. 1596 01:22:19,017 --> 01:22:20,643 I am not a licensed financial advisor. 1597 01:22:20,644 --> 01:22:23,104 Many of my celebrity... colleagues, 1598 01:22:23,105 --> 01:22:24,981 have effectively offered financial advice... 1599 01:22:24,982 --> 01:22:26,816 - They said buy. You're saying the opposite. 1600 01:22:26,817 --> 01:22:28,943 - They said buy. I'm the celebrity who said, 1601 01:22:28,944 --> 01:22:30,361 be careful. - Alright, be careful. 1602 01:22:30,362 --> 01:22:32,114 Ben McKenzie, thank you so much... 1603 01:22:42,416 --> 01:22:44,167 [V.O.] I stumbled down this crypto rabbit hole 1604 01:22:44,168 --> 01:22:45,836 not sure of who I was, 1605 01:22:46,336 --> 01:22:47,504 or what I was doing. 1606 01:22:49,173 --> 01:22:51,090 But in playing the role of myself, 1607 01:22:51,091 --> 01:22:52,551 an undercover econ dork, 1608 01:22:53,051 --> 01:22:55,345 I not only found my footing, 1609 01:22:55,471 --> 01:22:56,888 but uncovered what I believe 1610 01:22:56,889 --> 01:22:59,308 to be the central truth of cryptocurrency. 1611 01:23:01,268 --> 01:23:02,352 It's just a story. 1612 01:23:04,563 --> 01:23:09,693 Or rather, millions of different stories spun by those invested in it. 1613 01:23:11,445 --> 01:23:12,445 In the end, 1614 01:23:12,446 --> 01:23:13,946 crypto is only a projection 1615 01:23:13,947 --> 01:23:15,741 of the hopes and dreams of those investors. 1616 01:23:16,867 --> 01:23:18,494 - You still believe in crypto overall? 1617 01:23:20,204 --> 01:23:22,330 - Uh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 1618 01:23:22,331 --> 01:23:24,500 I'm fully invested in crypto now. 1619 01:23:24,875 --> 01:23:26,542 - Yeah, I do believe in it still. 1620 01:23:26,543 --> 01:23:28,127 I still hold a lot of Bitcoin. 1621 01:23:28,128 --> 01:23:30,254 - Obviously, I'm not a fan of Celsius. 1622 01:23:30,255 --> 01:23:33,674 I think that was a ripoff. But I still love Bitcoin. 1623 01:23:33,675 --> 01:23:35,259 - Immediately, whenever it happened, 1624 01:23:35,260 --> 01:23:37,930 I mean, I wasn't trying to look at crypto or anything like that, 1625 01:23:38,055 --> 01:23:39,514 but I'm still in the game. 1626 01:23:39,515 --> 01:23:40,723 - That's fascinating to me. 1627 01:23:40,724 --> 01:23:42,099 You know, like, I get it. 1628 01:23:42,100 --> 01:23:43,352 I can understand it. 1629 01:23:45,103 --> 01:23:46,605 Even if I don't agree with it. 1630 01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:50,816 [V.O.] And as long as people are buying the story, 1631 01:23:50,817 --> 01:23:52,778 the crypto industry will keep selling it, 1632 01:23:53,362 --> 01:23:56,615 changing the narrative to fit the needs of the faithful. 1633 01:24:26,687 --> 01:24:32,359 The government bought Wilfredo's land for a fraction of what it was worth. 1634 01:24:32,484 --> 01:24:36,196 He was forced to uproot his family and build a new house nearby. 1635 01:24:41,577 --> 01:24:44,329 - I love the high ceilings, it's nice. 1636 01:24:45,205 --> 01:24:47,290 [V.O.] The only way he could afford to do that 1637 01:24:47,291 --> 01:24:50,668 was with the financial support of his friends and family. 1638 01:24:50,669 --> 01:24:53,338 In the end, Wilfredo's community saved him. 1639 01:24:55,173 --> 01:24:56,966 And despite Wilfredo and his neighbors 1640 01:24:56,967 --> 01:24:58,759 being kicked off their land, 1641 01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:01,179 there are still no signs of Bitcoin City. 1642 01:25:03,181 --> 01:25:05,641 Well, other than Corbin, that is. 1643 01:25:05,642 --> 01:25:09,979 - ...put it all the ways down, and then when it dropped down to 5 grand, 1644 01:25:09,980 --> 01:25:11,981 I scooped up as much as I could then. 1645 01:25:11,982 --> 01:25:14,692 and then it kind of came back up and then... 1646 01:25:14,693 --> 01:25:17,778 [V.O.] However, the idea of Bitcoin continued to spread, 1647 01:25:17,779 --> 01:25:19,406 albeit in an unexpected way. 1648 01:25:32,753 --> 01:25:35,588 [V.O.] My First Bitcoin is a nationwide effort 1649 01:25:35,589 --> 01:25:38,257 to educate the impressionable youth of El Salvador 1650 01:25:38,258 --> 01:25:40,010 on the magical ways of Bitcoin. 1651 01:25:40,927 --> 01:25:43,722 With over 35,000 graduates and counting, 1652 01:25:44,222 --> 01:25:47,100 an entire generation is being turned on to crypto. 1653 01:25:47,934 --> 01:25:48,810 Forcibly. 1654 01:25:50,312 --> 01:25:52,730 And Bitcoin tourists from all over the world 1655 01:25:52,731 --> 01:25:55,274 could come to watch kids who aren't theirs graduate. 1656 01:25:55,275 --> 01:25:59,987 - [Spanish] You are the example that the world is watching. 1657 01:25:59,988 --> 01:26:04,241 [Spanish You really can decide what kind of future lies ahead. 1658 01:26:04,242 --> 01:26:08,121 [Spanish] What kind of example are you going to set for the world? 1659 01:26:08,664 --> 01:26:10,082 [V.O.] Not weird at all. 1660 01:26:22,886 --> 01:26:25,347 So, was it worth it? 1661 01:26:26,515 --> 01:26:29,058 I feel like I was... as right 1662 01:26:29,059 --> 01:26:31,060 as I hoped I would be or more 1663 01:26:31,061 --> 01:26:32,521 and yet I had less of an effect. 1664 01:26:33,271 --> 01:26:34,231 What do you mean? 1665 01:26:34,606 --> 01:26:37,775 Sort of felt it would be like a movie and 1666 01:26:37,776 --> 01:26:39,611 it would just disappear, but... 1667 01:26:39,820 --> 01:26:41,529 - Right. - it's not a movie, you know? 1668 01:26:41,530 --> 01:26:43,407 It's not beautiful and perfect. 1669 01:26:43,782 --> 01:26:46,075 Like, people are still going to believe in crypto no matter what. 1670 01:26:46,076 --> 01:26:48,578 Right? Like, it doesn't matter what I say. 1671 01:26:48,829 --> 01:26:51,707 It doesn't matter what anyone says, really. 1672 01:26:52,207 --> 01:26:53,791 I'm kind of tired of being me. 1673 01:26:53,792 --> 01:26:56,919 I'm ready to go back to pretending to be somebody else. 1674 01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:58,337 Let's be honest. 1675 01:26:58,338 --> 01:27:00,715 I am not as interesting as the people that I play. 1676 01:27:00,716 --> 01:27:02,676 I mean, I wasn't going to say it. 1677 01:27:03,927 --> 01:27:05,804 Who should I pretend to be next? 1678 01:27:07,097 --> 01:27:09,057 Doctor, cop, lawyer, right? 1679 01:27:09,933 --> 01:27:10,767 Yeah. 1680 01:27:11,810 --> 01:27:13,310 I'm going to just... 1681 01:27:13,311 --> 01:27:14,730 become a fake cop again. 1682 01:27:15,772 --> 01:27:18,107 - That's good. - Get back to some honest work. 1683 01:27:18,108 --> 01:27:19,401 That's what I married. 1684 01:27:23,363 --> 01:27:26,825 Very few people would have put up with what you put up with. 1685 01:27:27,909 --> 01:27:30,286 So, go ahead, now that you've been listening for two years, 1686 01:27:30,287 --> 01:27:33,039 what is cryptocurrency, Maria? - Oh God, please. 1687 01:27:33,457 --> 01:27:35,792 Should've just impaled myself on this tiny, tiny knob. 1688 01:27:39,129 --> 01:27:41,672 Well, we've got two night scenes. 1689 01:27:41,673 --> 01:27:43,382 Do you want them done tonight or tomorrow? 1690 01:27:43,383 --> 01:27:44,967 What are the night scenes? 1691 01:27:44,968 --> 01:27:48,012 One is, uh, it's my low point. I'm down in a rabbit hole. 1692 01:27:48,013 --> 01:27:49,972 I'm in the kitchen, looking at videos... 1693 01:27:49,973 --> 01:27:56,437 ♪ Thanks for your letter, please send a clone over ♪ 1694 01:27:56,438 --> 01:28:02,694 ♪ I'll use him for garden work and harmonies ♪ 1695 01:28:03,570 --> 01:28:09,742 ♪ Speaking of pretty new documentaries ♪ 1696 01:28:09,743 --> 01:28:15,873 ♪ Have you seen the one about the Rajneeshpuram Society? ♪ 1697 01:28:15,874 --> 01:28:21,378 ♪ Everyone seemed to think they were lunatics, but I sort of thought, ♪ 1698 01:28:21,379 --> 01:28:26,133 ♪ Hey I get this inside this rational brain of mine ♪ 1699 01:28:26,134 --> 01:28:29,553 ♪ I long to be contradicted, I wait for a sign ♪ 1700 01:28:29,554 --> 01:28:34,975 ♪ Doesn't matter what cult, what sign Just give me any cult you sign ♪ 1701 01:28:34,976 --> 01:28:37,479 - Have a good time with your Bitcoin and... 1702 01:28:38,396 --> 01:28:41,482 your crypto and everything else that you're playing with. 1703 01:28:41,483 --> 01:28:43,943 ♪ ...bandages ♪ 1704 01:28:43,944 --> 01:28:50,908 ♪ Though I'm guessing may you are an athiest ♪ 1705 01:28:50,909 --> 01:28:53,828 ♪ You'd get a reason, you'd get a goal ♪ 1706 01:28:53,829 --> 01:28:57,206 ♪ You'd know how to dress, and how to cleanse your soul ♪ 1707 01:28:57,207 --> 01:29:02,379 ♪ I'd be up for that, I'd be totally up for cleansing my soul ♪ 1708 01:29:05,382 --> 01:29:09,344 ♪ Would I have to split from my family? ♪ 1709 01:29:11,888 --> 01:29:16,101 ♪ They wouldn't know what got into me. ♪ 1710 01:29:17,644 --> 01:29:21,313 ♪ I'd change my name into something cool. ♪ 1711 01:29:21,314 --> 01:29:24,525 ♪ The world's spring grass and the leader would use me ♪ 1712 01:29:24,526 --> 01:29:29,906 ♪ as a songwriter too, I'd spread her message to the world, ♪ 1713 01:29:31,825 --> 01:29:36,788 ♪ Send in the choir. ♪ 1714 01:29:38,331 --> 01:29:43,378 ♪ Send in the choir. ♪ 1715 01:29:45,255 --> 01:29:50,343 ♪ Send in the choir. ♪ 132199

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