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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:12,781 --> 00:00:16,901 Lots of local residents who were closer to the scene than me 2 00:00:17,061 --> 00:00:18,741 thought a bomb had gone off. 3 00:00:18,901 --> 00:00:21,101 It was like nothing I'd ever heard before. 4 00:00:21,261 --> 00:00:23,461 Where there had been a three-storey building 5 00:00:23,621 --> 00:00:26,421 moments earlier, there was nothing. 6 00:00:27,661 --> 00:00:30,541 It was shocking. Absolutely shocking. 7 00:00:32,141 --> 00:00:34,701 I mean, people speculate, I suppose, 8 00:00:34,861 --> 00:00:37,261 whether this was some sort of terrorist situation, 9 00:00:37,421 --> 00:00:41,581 and we just couldn't answer that... I think it was trying to understand 10 00:00:41,741 --> 00:00:44,101 was there anything else going on? 11 00:00:44,261 --> 00:00:47,181 Once the police learn that there's potential accelerant 12 00:00:47,341 --> 00:00:49,901 used, now we know it's not an accident. 13 00:00:50,061 --> 00:00:51,901 Now we know it's an intentional act. 14 00:00:52,061 --> 00:00:55,061 I look at this as a very typical staged event. 15 00:00:55,221 --> 00:00:57,141 The police are under tremendous pressure. 16 00:00:57,301 --> 00:00:58,661 When you have five victims, 17 00:00:58,821 --> 00:01:01,341 this is something that really is not going to go away. 18 00:01:02,981 --> 00:01:05,741 What then happens is you have a criminal inquiry 19 00:01:05,901 --> 00:01:09,381 involving multiple homicides. - They want to see 20 00:01:09,541 --> 00:01:11,901 what's the payoff? Why would someone do this? 21 00:01:12,061 --> 00:01:14,541 What's the motive? - The owners stood to benefit 22 00:01:14,701 --> 00:01:17,301 and gain a lot of money from destroying the property. 23 00:01:18,781 --> 00:01:21,661 Investigators are going to go backwards 24 00:01:21,821 --> 00:01:24,661 and see where were the owners earlier that day? 25 00:01:24,821 --> 00:01:27,741 This isn't just about claiming insurance money. 26 00:01:27,901 --> 00:01:29,941 This becomes a lot more sinister. 27 00:01:30,101 --> 00:01:33,181 It seemed like they knew what they were doing 28 00:01:33,341 --> 00:01:35,701 and didn't care about the consequences. 29 00:01:53,781 --> 00:01:56,901 Leicester is famously a very mixed community, 30 00:01:57,061 --> 00:02:02,621 lots of different races here. It's a very arty place to live. 31 00:02:02,781 --> 00:02:05,461 It feels like a city where everybody gets on. 32 00:02:05,621 --> 00:02:08,381 It's just a calm, quiet Midlands city, 33 00:02:08,541 --> 00:02:10,541 just getting on with life. 34 00:02:13,621 --> 00:02:15,701 There is crime in Leicester. 35 00:02:15,861 --> 00:02:19,381 As somebody who's lived here for 30 years, I feel safe. 36 00:02:19,541 --> 00:02:22,501 I would walk through the city at night by myself. 37 00:02:22,661 --> 00:02:25,381 I think Leicester sometimes has a bad reputation 38 00:02:25,541 --> 00:02:29,301 for various reasons, but it's not a city 39 00:02:29,461 --> 00:02:30,661 where I feel unsafe. 40 00:02:33,541 --> 00:02:38,021 Leicester is a very busy city, multicultural, 41 00:02:38,181 --> 00:02:41,981 so it's very lively, got good cultural activities 42 00:02:42,141 --> 00:02:45,981 and a goodish football team. 43 00:02:46,141 --> 00:02:49,301 It has been better. I've supported them all the time 44 00:02:49,461 --> 00:02:52,581 I've been here and will continue doing so. 45 00:02:52,741 --> 00:02:54,981 As cities go, I think it's very friendly. 46 00:02:55,141 --> 00:02:59,501 The Hinckley Road area as a very mixed community. 47 00:03:01,381 --> 00:03:05,821 It's got lots of terraced housing, 48 00:03:05,981 --> 00:03:10,901 lots of big houses where established families live. 49 00:03:11,061 --> 00:03:12,821 You will find everybody 50 00:03:12,981 --> 00:03:17,061 in the west end area of Leicester and Hinckley Road. 51 00:03:17,221 --> 00:03:19,381 It's got a great community feel. 52 00:03:19,541 --> 00:03:23,301 Lots of shops, lots of students, 53 00:03:23,461 --> 00:03:28,461 lots of artists. It's a really mixed area. 54 00:03:28,621 --> 00:03:33,541 I would say that people know, for example, the local postmaster, 55 00:03:33,701 --> 00:03:36,181 they know people who run their local shops. 56 00:03:36,341 --> 00:03:39,221 You're likely to meet somebody to say hello to. 57 00:03:39,381 --> 00:03:41,901 You're probably gonna know your neighbours. 58 00:03:42,061 --> 00:03:44,461 There's a lot of community spirit around there. 59 00:03:44,621 --> 00:03:48,901 Hinckley Road was one way out of the city if you like, 60 00:03:49,061 --> 00:03:51,341 as well as one way, 61 00:03:51,501 --> 00:03:53,501 and it's not too far from the city centre, 62 00:03:53,661 --> 00:03:57,341 so it's quite a good place to live. Thinking back, 63 00:03:57,501 --> 00:03:59,741 seemed a very relaxed place to live. 64 00:04:05,541 --> 00:04:09,381 One of the buildings had a shop on the ground floor 65 00:04:09,541 --> 00:04:10,901 and a two-storey flat above. 66 00:04:15,061 --> 00:04:17,221 Living in the flat was the Ragoobeer family. 67 00:04:17,381 --> 00:04:20,261 There was mum Mary, 46. 68 00:04:20,421 --> 00:04:24,541 She worked at the Richard III Visitor Centre in Leicester. 69 00:04:24,701 --> 00:04:27,621 She had been working there for two years, 70 00:04:27,781 --> 00:04:29,941 and she had made a big positive impression. 71 00:04:30,101 --> 00:04:34,861 Dad Jose Ragoobeer, he was 58, 72 00:04:35,021 --> 00:04:37,261 and he worked as a carer in Leicester, 73 00:04:37,421 --> 00:04:40,501 and his employer said at the time 74 00:04:40,661 --> 00:04:44,701 that all his clients loved him so much 75 00:04:44,861 --> 00:04:46,741 because he was caring and compassionate. 76 00:04:46,901 --> 00:04:49,461 His employer described him as amazing, 77 00:04:49,621 --> 00:04:51,941 and one of the kindest people they'd ever met. 78 00:04:52,101 --> 00:04:56,941 The children were Shane, who was 18, 79 00:04:57,101 --> 00:05:01,261 he'd just left school and he was in a relationship 80 00:05:01,421 --> 00:05:06,141 with a young lady called Leah, 81 00:05:06,301 --> 00:05:10,021 and friends described them as made for each other, 82 00:05:10,181 --> 00:05:14,301 and so in love. Friends said that they lit up a room 83 00:05:14,461 --> 00:05:18,701 when they walked in, they were just so, so happy together. 84 00:05:18,861 --> 00:05:22,701 And Shane had actually texted one of his friends 85 00:05:22,861 --> 00:05:24,981 to say he wanted to marry Leah. 86 00:05:25,141 --> 00:05:27,421 There's a younger brother, Sean. 87 00:05:27,581 --> 00:05:31,021 He's 17, and he was taking his exams at school. 88 00:05:31,181 --> 00:05:33,941 Scotty was the youngest brother, he was 15. 89 00:05:34,101 --> 00:05:36,221 They were so well thought of, 90 00:05:36,381 --> 00:05:40,181 really popular and just a normal, good Leicester family 91 00:05:40,341 --> 00:05:42,501 living their lives. 92 00:05:44,741 --> 00:05:48,421 The family moved to the flat in February 2015, 93 00:05:48,581 --> 00:05:52,541 and the flat was above a shop called Zabka. 94 00:05:52,701 --> 00:05:55,901 It was opened by Aram Kurd, 95 00:05:56,061 --> 00:05:58,901 who lived in Leicester, in late 2017. 96 00:05:59,061 --> 00:06:02,821 It was a basic convenience store. 97 00:06:06,541 --> 00:06:09,581 Jose was working, doing his caring job, 98 00:06:09,741 --> 00:06:15,261 and he came home at lunchtime and he had a chat with Shane 99 00:06:15,421 --> 00:06:18,181 about football and a match that was on later that day. 100 00:06:18,341 --> 00:06:21,301 Shane asked him if he could borrow a fiver 101 00:06:21,461 --> 00:06:23,941 from his dad, and his dad said yes 102 00:06:24,101 --> 00:06:27,981 and gave him a fiver, and then his dad went back to work. 103 00:06:31,901 --> 00:06:34,941 It was a Sunday night, about seven o'clock, 104 00:06:35,101 --> 00:06:37,901 and I was at home. I was off work. 105 00:06:38,061 --> 00:06:41,221 I think I was just about to eat my tea, 106 00:06:41,381 --> 00:06:46,141 and I heard an enormous boom. 107 00:06:48,421 --> 00:06:52,021 It was a boom that you felt as well as heard. 108 00:06:54,101 --> 00:06:56,621 I knew immediately that it was an explosion. 109 00:06:56,781 --> 00:06:59,621 It was like nothing I'd ever heard before, 110 00:06:59,781 --> 00:07:03,061 and I ran upstairs to see if I could see anything. 111 00:07:03,221 --> 00:07:05,941 I looked out of the window 112 00:07:06,101 --> 00:07:09,701 and a few hundred yards directly in front of me 113 00:07:09,861 --> 00:07:11,781 was an inferno. 114 00:07:11,941 --> 00:07:14,221 The flames were higher than the roof line. 115 00:07:14,381 --> 00:07:15,981 It was just fire. 116 00:07:18,941 --> 00:07:22,101 It was absolutely shocking. 117 00:07:25,781 --> 00:07:28,221 My first instinct was, what can I do to help? 118 00:07:28,381 --> 00:07:32,541 But I realised really quickly that I was too far away 119 00:07:32,701 --> 00:07:36,021 to be of help, that there would already be a crowd of people there 120 00:07:36,181 --> 00:07:39,261 trying to help, that's the sort of neighbourhood it is, and I heard 121 00:07:39,421 --> 00:07:41,381 immediately that there were sirens. 122 00:07:41,541 --> 00:07:42,541 Yes, 123 00:07:42,701 --> 00:07:45,501 what's the address of the emergency? There's been 124 00:07:45,661 --> 00:07:47,581 a massive explosion... Explosion... 125 00:07:47,741 --> 00:07:51,141 There's been an explosion. - And the screaming sirens 126 00:07:51,301 --> 00:07:52,981 were all I could hear. 127 00:08:07,861 --> 00:08:09,981 This would be deemed by the authorities 128 00:08:10,141 --> 00:08:13,421 to be a major incident, and there would be need 129 00:08:13,581 --> 00:08:15,581 to understand what caused the explosion, 130 00:08:15,741 --> 00:08:17,861 to make sure that other people were safe. 131 00:08:18,021 --> 00:08:23,461 And, of course, it would become evident quite quickly 132 00:08:23,621 --> 00:08:26,301 that there may be people involved and there may be deaths. 133 00:08:26,461 --> 00:08:31,101 So the police, the fire service, gas experts, fire experts, 134 00:08:31,261 --> 00:08:34,181 would all be involved in this as a major incident. 135 00:08:35,021 --> 00:08:38,261 My initial thought was, gas explosion. 136 00:08:38,421 --> 00:08:41,901 If a building, a random building explodes somewhere, 137 00:08:42,061 --> 00:08:44,381 most people are going to think gas explosion. 138 00:08:44,541 --> 00:08:47,261 There were all other rumours going around at the time, 139 00:08:47,421 --> 00:08:50,701 lots of local residents who were closer to the scene than me 140 00:08:50,861 --> 00:08:52,381 thought a bomb had gone off. 141 00:08:54,701 --> 00:08:56,981 Our photographer who I had sent to the scene 142 00:08:57,141 --> 00:09:02,141 got a photograph of a man who had emerged from the rubble 143 00:09:02,301 --> 00:09:07,021 alive, apparently not very badly injured, 144 00:09:07,181 --> 00:09:12,381 and people gathering round him, hugging him, telling him 145 00:09:12,541 --> 00:09:15,101 everything was OK, and that turned out to be Kurd. 146 00:09:20,821 --> 00:09:23,021 Shortly after 11 p.m., 147 00:09:23,181 --> 00:09:26,701 the Fire and Rescue Service said that six people 148 00:09:26,861 --> 00:09:29,261 were in hospital, and six people being in hospital 149 00:09:29,421 --> 00:09:33,381 had an element of good news about it, because of course 150 00:09:33,541 --> 00:09:35,381 if people are in hospital, you imagine 151 00:09:35,541 --> 00:09:39,421 perhaps their lives can be saved. They said also 152 00:09:39,581 --> 00:09:43,181 that that was the last update they were going to give that night. 153 00:09:43,341 --> 00:09:46,261 So we concluded our reporting soon after 154 00:09:46,421 --> 00:09:48,701 and started again first thing in the morning. 155 00:09:56,221 --> 00:09:59,381 With a building that explodes and collapses 156 00:09:59,541 --> 00:10:03,981 and has caused a fire, it's too hot for anyone to enter. 157 00:10:04,861 --> 00:10:08,421 They suspect there will be bodies. They don't know how many, 158 00:10:08,581 --> 00:10:12,021 but it's very difficult, even with special equipment, 159 00:10:12,181 --> 00:10:14,501 to get in right away to see what happened. 160 00:10:14,661 --> 00:10:18,061 And the building itself was unstable. We don't know 161 00:10:18,221 --> 00:10:20,581 how neighbouring buildings might have been. 162 00:10:20,741 --> 00:10:24,181 So there's a lot of caution. At the same time, there's urgency. 163 00:10:24,341 --> 00:10:26,221 It's a very difficult position to be in. 164 00:10:27,861 --> 00:10:30,581 Initially investigators approach the scene 165 00:10:30,741 --> 00:10:34,101 with an open mind. They don't know if the explosion was an accident, 166 00:10:34,261 --> 00:10:36,141 such as a gas-main break, 167 00:10:36,301 --> 00:10:38,941 or they don't know if it was intentional, 168 00:10:39,101 --> 00:10:40,701 if it was a bomb. They don't know. 169 00:10:42,301 --> 00:10:44,781 It could have been a gas explosion, 170 00:10:44,941 --> 00:10:47,421 and that requires experts from the gas authorities 171 00:10:47,581 --> 00:10:50,301 to be involved. It could have been a terrorist explosion. 172 00:10:50,461 --> 00:10:53,141 or it could have been a petrol vapour explosion. 173 00:10:53,301 --> 00:10:55,541 None of this would have been known at the outset. 174 00:10:55,701 --> 00:11:00,221 So it would require multiple teams of experts, 175 00:11:00,381 --> 00:11:05,581 carrying out a really detailed, careful sifting 176 00:11:05,741 --> 00:11:09,181 of all the evidence that's involved in this case. 177 00:11:10,861 --> 00:11:13,701 When we reported on gas explosions previously, 178 00:11:13,861 --> 00:11:18,221 the cause is named pretty quickly, it's pretty obvious to investigators 179 00:11:18,381 --> 00:11:21,861 that it's a gas explosion. But in this case, 180 00:11:22,021 --> 00:11:25,341 no mention of gas was made. 181 00:11:25,501 --> 00:11:27,861 I mean, people speculate, I suppose, 182 00:11:28,021 --> 00:11:30,421 whether this was some sort of terrorist situation, 183 00:11:30,581 --> 00:11:33,901 and we just couldn't answer that. And nor could the police 184 00:11:34,061 --> 00:11:37,061 at that time. I think it was trying to understand 185 00:11:37,221 --> 00:11:40,861 whether more was going on than, well, say, 186 00:11:42,701 --> 00:11:43,941 just a tragic explosion. 187 00:11:44,101 --> 00:11:46,261 Was there anything else going on?. 188 00:11:48,781 --> 00:11:52,461 Leicestershire Police said that there was no evidence 189 00:11:52,621 --> 00:11:55,101 to suggest it was in any way linked to terror. 190 00:11:56,581 --> 00:11:59,821 My suspicion is that there would be traces of petrol 191 00:11:59,981 --> 00:12:04,181 detectable either in the very early stages, 192 00:12:04,341 --> 00:12:08,101 possibly even at the scene, using portable, detecting equipment, 193 00:12:08,261 --> 00:12:12,181 or quite quickly in the lab. An explosion is a very rapid event. 194 00:12:12,341 --> 00:12:15,461 The blast travels faster than the speed of sound, 195 00:12:15,621 --> 00:12:17,581 over 700 miles an hour. 196 00:12:17,741 --> 00:12:20,861 A fire, whilst it can still be a rapidly developing travel, 197 00:12:21,021 --> 00:12:24,221 it's a much slower developing process. 198 00:12:24,381 --> 00:12:27,621 So one of the things that would have been in investigators' minds 199 00:12:27,781 --> 00:12:31,701 was that if this was a petrol vapour explosion, 200 00:12:31,861 --> 00:12:33,901 a large volume of petrol would have been used. 201 00:12:34,061 --> 00:12:37,741 Depending on the particular configuration 202 00:12:37,901 --> 00:12:41,101 of the building and the ventilation, you get a situation 203 00:12:41,261 --> 00:12:44,421 where you get such a build-up of petrol 204 00:12:44,581 --> 00:12:48,501 that when you try and ignite it, it doesn't burst into flames, 205 00:12:48,661 --> 00:12:50,341 it explodes. 206 00:12:50,501 --> 00:12:54,541 Once the police learn that there's potential accelerant use, 207 00:12:54,701 --> 00:12:56,741 that changes the whole dynamics, 208 00:12:56,901 --> 00:12:59,541 because now we know it's not an accident. Now we know 209 00:12:59,701 --> 00:13:00,981 it's intentional. Arson. 210 00:13:15,861 --> 00:13:18,541 Where there was once a shop and a family home, 211 00:13:18,701 --> 00:13:22,661 there is now just a smouldering gap in the terrace. 212 00:13:22,821 --> 00:13:25,501 It is hard to comprehend the explosion 213 00:13:25,661 --> 00:13:29,221 that reduced it to a pile of debris, easier to understand 214 00:13:29,381 --> 00:13:32,061 how five people lost their lives here. 215 00:13:32,221 --> 00:13:35,381 The police announced that five people had been found dead 216 00:13:35,541 --> 00:13:39,101 in the rubble following the explosion. 217 00:13:39,261 --> 00:13:42,701 It was absolutely shocking. 218 00:13:42,861 --> 00:13:43,861 Heartbreaking. 219 00:13:45,701 --> 00:13:49,981 Late on Monday night, the first picture emerged 220 00:13:50,141 --> 00:13:54,981 of some of the family members who'd lived in the flat 221 00:13:55,141 --> 00:13:59,101 above the shop. The pictures showed Mary Ragoobeer, 222 00:13:59,261 --> 00:14:03,141 her son Shane, and her son Sean. 223 00:14:03,301 --> 00:14:07,661 They were considered missing in the aftermath of the blast. 224 00:14:07,821 --> 00:14:12,421 Also still considered missing was Leah, Shane's girlfriend, 225 00:14:12,581 --> 00:14:18,581 who was with Shane at the flat on the night of the explosion. 226 00:14:18,741 --> 00:14:23,381 The Ragoobeer family were a key part of the local community. 227 00:14:23,541 --> 00:14:26,741 They had lots of friends there, people who knew them, 228 00:14:26,901 --> 00:14:32,021 who valued them, who knew them 229 00:14:32,181 --> 00:14:34,261 as a good local family, 230 00:14:34,421 --> 00:14:40,061 and they were beyond horrified that something so terrible 231 00:14:40,221 --> 00:14:41,621 could have happened to them. 232 00:14:44,901 --> 00:14:47,421 It was shocking. Absolutely shocking. 233 00:14:47,581 --> 00:14:51,661 I learned that Scotty, the youngest at the time, 234 00:14:51,821 --> 00:14:56,581 was in hospital. We realised 235 00:14:56,741 --> 00:15:01,261 that people were coming to a little grassy area 236 00:15:01,421 --> 00:15:07,421 opposite where the explosion took place and laying flowers there, 237 00:15:07,581 --> 00:15:10,301 and we realised 238 00:15:10,461 --> 00:15:15,421 we needed to set up some sort of memorial there, 239 00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:20,581 and that was organised. And it was only gradually 240 00:15:20,741 --> 00:15:23,421 I found the father, who was at work at the time, 241 00:15:23,581 --> 00:15:27,541 and got to know from his point of view 242 00:15:27,701 --> 00:15:31,301 what the situation was. It was very important 243 00:15:31,461 --> 00:15:35,101 that I got in touch with the school, so that we could see 244 00:15:35,261 --> 00:15:37,901 how they were dealing with the situation, because we knew 245 00:15:38,061 --> 00:15:43,181 that the school had a big role to play. 246 00:15:47,781 --> 00:15:49,541 When you have five victims, 247 00:15:49,701 --> 00:15:51,701 this is something that won't go away. 248 00:15:51,861 --> 00:15:53,661 The media won't let this die. 249 00:15:53,821 --> 00:15:55,981 The neighbourhood won't let this die. 250 00:15:56,141 --> 00:15:58,221 The police are under tremendous pressure. 251 00:16:00,101 --> 00:16:02,021 They now have to look at the potential 252 00:16:02,181 --> 00:16:06,021 that somebody intentionally caused this. 253 00:16:06,181 --> 00:16:09,221 The motives could be anything from they want to kill somebody 254 00:16:09,381 --> 00:16:11,941 in the building, they want to claim insurance. 255 00:16:12,101 --> 00:16:15,861 there is some kind of punitive potential there. 256 00:16:16,021 --> 00:16:19,501 There's limited motives, but they really wouldn't be able 257 00:16:19,661 --> 00:16:21,061 to tell immediately what it is. 258 00:16:21,221 --> 00:16:23,781 This scene investigation could take several days, 259 00:16:23,941 --> 00:16:27,381 there's a great deal of very detailed work. 260 00:16:27,541 --> 00:16:31,181 While that is going on, the police would be carrying out inquiries. 261 00:16:31,341 --> 00:16:33,781 Initially, these would be very general inquiries: 262 00:16:33,941 --> 00:16:36,781 who owns the building? And they would be looking into 263 00:16:36,941 --> 00:16:40,261 the background of people who lived there, 264 00:16:40,421 --> 00:16:44,421 the people who owned it. - The person who ran the shop 265 00:16:44,581 --> 00:16:49,061 was called Aram Kurd. He was the shopkeeper. 266 00:16:49,221 --> 00:16:51,821 He'd taken out the lease on the shop, and he ran the shop 267 00:16:51,981 --> 00:16:54,101 day to day. He set up the convenience store. 268 00:16:54,261 --> 00:16:59,061 Kurd was friends with someone called Hawker Hassan, 269 00:16:59,221 --> 00:17:03,261 He was also friends with a man called Arkan Ali. 270 00:17:04,941 --> 00:17:08,981 And Kurd had a girlfriend called Victoria, 271 00:17:09,141 --> 00:17:12,461 who was working at the shop. He employed her at the shop. 272 00:17:13,781 --> 00:17:17,781 Gradually, a picture of the history of this building 273 00:17:17,941 --> 00:17:23,141 and its occupants and recent events would become clearer, 274 00:17:23,301 --> 00:17:27,101 and would basically be the frame for the investigation. 275 00:17:27,261 --> 00:17:29,421 They would be talking to the owners 276 00:17:29,581 --> 00:17:32,381 about who might be in the shop, where they were 277 00:17:32,541 --> 00:17:34,341 when these events happened, 278 00:17:34,501 --> 00:17:37,061 whether they had any potential explanation 279 00:17:37,221 --> 00:17:39,861 for why they happened, and of course 280 00:17:40,021 --> 00:17:42,621 it would gradually unfold from talking to the three men 281 00:17:42,781 --> 00:17:46,461 who were alive that Victoria was probably in the shop 282 00:17:46,621 --> 00:17:48,461 when the explosion took place. 283 00:17:48,621 --> 00:17:52,061 We have to step back and think, who's going to benefit? 284 00:17:52,221 --> 00:17:55,181 We're going to concentrate on the shop itself. 285 00:17:55,341 --> 00:17:59,421 What's the possible benefit? Or is there somebody else 286 00:17:59,581 --> 00:18:01,701 that has specifically targeted this person 287 00:18:01,861 --> 00:18:03,901 to injure them? - They want to see 288 00:18:04,061 --> 00:18:06,981 what's the payoff. Why would someone do this? 289 00:18:07,141 --> 00:18:09,701 What's the motive? And they're going to be looking at 290 00:18:09,861 --> 00:18:12,861 the potential that somebody insured the building or shop. 291 00:18:13,021 --> 00:18:15,381 If Kurd's shop had burned to the ground, 292 00:18:15,541 --> 00:18:17,941 killing his girlfriend, he would want justice. 293 00:18:18,101 --> 00:18:21,021 He's angry. He's horrified. 294 00:18:21,181 --> 00:18:24,301 He's grief-stricken. He's just lost everything, 295 00:18:24,461 --> 00:18:29,021 his livelihood and girlfriend. They will expect certain reactions 296 00:18:29,181 --> 00:18:30,181 from him. 297 00:18:40,981 --> 00:18:42,621 An explosion of this type, 298 00:18:42,781 --> 00:18:45,661 which then becomes a criminal investigation 299 00:18:45,821 --> 00:18:47,861 that involves multiple deaths, 300 00:18:48,021 --> 00:18:50,021 would become a national investigation, 301 00:18:50,181 --> 00:18:54,781 and that adds a layer of difficulty and complexity 302 00:18:54,941 --> 00:18:59,541 to the investigation, because there is constant media desire 303 00:18:59,701 --> 00:19:03,461 for information, which is understandable 304 00:19:03,621 --> 00:19:07,101 and necessary. But it can be a distraction 305 00:19:07,261 --> 00:19:09,501 to the main thrust of the investigation, 306 00:19:09,661 --> 00:19:13,061 which is finding the perpetrators and charging them with the offence. 307 00:19:20,141 --> 00:19:23,541 We knew that at the time of the explosion, 308 00:19:23,701 --> 00:19:29,421 the dad was at work caring for one of his patients, 309 00:19:29,581 --> 00:19:35,341 and Mary and the three boys and Leah 310 00:19:35,501 --> 00:19:38,021 were all at the family home. 311 00:19:38,181 --> 00:19:41,461 And although it was a miracle 312 00:19:41,621 --> 00:19:43,901 that Scotty had survived, 313 00:19:44,061 --> 00:19:47,581 and that his dad had not lost his entire family, 314 00:19:47,741 --> 00:19:50,581 he, a young teenager, 315 00:19:50,741 --> 00:19:54,261 was now in a world where his mum had died, 316 00:19:54,421 --> 00:19:56,541 and his two big brothers had died, 317 00:19:56,701 --> 00:19:59,941 and his big brother's girlfriend had died. 318 00:20:00,101 --> 00:20:03,741 And how anyone, let alone a child, 319 00:20:03,901 --> 00:20:07,101 can begin to process that is unimaginable. 320 00:20:08,781 --> 00:20:11,101 They offered a sort of rest centre, 321 00:20:11,261 --> 00:20:14,541 and people were given help if they needed it. 322 00:20:14,701 --> 00:20:18,661 The school were very involved. 323 00:20:19,981 --> 00:20:23,381 The next thing I remember is the day of the funeral. 324 00:20:23,541 --> 00:20:27,621 I felt the biggest shock was the school. 325 00:20:27,781 --> 00:20:32,861 The effect was demonstrated by how they lined the route 326 00:20:33,021 --> 00:20:37,021 to the cemetery by the school. They stood outside the school 327 00:20:37,181 --> 00:20:40,301 and saw the hearses go by. 328 00:20:40,461 --> 00:20:42,341 It was so moving. 329 00:20:45,301 --> 00:20:47,261 I remember that very clearly. 330 00:20:49,221 --> 00:20:51,341 Being part of the community myself, 331 00:20:51,501 --> 00:20:57,021 it's fair to say that hundreds, thousands of people were shocked 332 00:20:57,181 --> 00:21:00,981 and appalled, and, even if they didn't know the family, 333 00:21:01,141 --> 00:21:03,221 heartbroken by what had happened. 334 00:21:03,381 --> 00:21:08,061 It's unimaginable that so many members of one family 335 00:21:08,221 --> 00:21:12,981 can be lost like that and in such terrible circumstances. 336 00:21:13,141 --> 00:21:15,661 And I know that everybody's hearts 337 00:21:15,821 --> 00:21:20,061 went out to the surviving members of the family. 338 00:21:20,221 --> 00:21:25,381 It's beyond imagination what they were going through. 339 00:21:29,741 --> 00:21:33,981 It may well be that the police were suspicious about it 340 00:21:34,141 --> 00:21:36,901 from quite an early stage. There are two reasons for this: 341 00:21:37,061 --> 00:21:41,581 one is, one of the men who owned the shop was in his car 342 00:21:41,741 --> 00:21:43,781 nearby when the explosion took place, 343 00:21:43,941 --> 00:21:46,821 but claimed not to have heard the explosion. Another man 344 00:21:46,981 --> 00:21:50,861 who was a part-owner of the shop was also seen on CCTV 345 00:21:51,021 --> 00:21:53,781 running away from the rear of the shop 346 00:21:53,941 --> 00:21:56,821 shortly after the explosion took place. What then happens 347 00:21:56,981 --> 00:22:00,261 is you have two parallel investigations 348 00:22:00,421 --> 00:22:04,781 then begin to merge, as this begins to look like a criminal inquiry 349 00:22:04,941 --> 00:22:06,821 involving multiple homicides. 350 00:22:18,661 --> 00:22:21,181 UK police are investigating 351 00:22:21,341 --> 00:22:24,421 a powerful explosion which destroyed a shop and a home 352 00:22:24,581 --> 00:22:28,221 late on Sunday evening. Five people died when a shop 353 00:22:28,381 --> 00:22:31,541 and the flat above were destroyed. - Investigators start looking 354 00:22:31,701 --> 00:22:34,661 for motive. Motive is crucial in a case like this. 355 00:22:34,821 --> 00:22:37,501 Shortly before the explosion, the owners had taken out 356 00:22:37,661 --> 00:22:40,661 a large insurance policy, so they stood to benefit 357 00:22:40,821 --> 00:22:44,261 and gain a lot of money from destroying the property. 358 00:22:44,421 --> 00:22:48,741 That leaves a big question mark and a red flag, 359 00:22:48,901 --> 00:22:51,061 and it makes police start to think 360 00:22:51,221 --> 00:22:53,261 maybe there's a motive here, 361 00:22:53,421 --> 00:22:56,981 and maybe that motive is the insurance money. 362 00:22:57,141 --> 00:23:00,101 Now we're going to expand our canvas again and say, 363 00:23:00,261 --> 00:23:02,781 do you know anybody who's had any problems with them? 364 00:23:02,941 --> 00:23:05,341 Do you know anybody that they've cheated? 365 00:23:05,501 --> 00:23:08,021 Anybody that's made any threats against them? 366 00:23:08,181 --> 00:23:11,101 But at the same token, we're talking to the shop-owners 367 00:23:11,261 --> 00:23:14,221 and say, listen, tell me about your business. 368 00:23:14,381 --> 00:23:17,061 Have any problems with your business? Any insurance? 369 00:23:17,221 --> 00:23:19,581 That's going to be a big one. What's important is 370 00:23:19,741 --> 00:23:23,181 if you find out that there has been recent changes to the insurance, 371 00:23:23,341 --> 00:23:26,741 that they've increased the insurance, or they have gotten 372 00:23:26,901 --> 00:23:29,181 multiple policies, that's another red flag. 373 00:23:29,341 --> 00:23:32,661 They found that there was a recent insurance policy 374 00:23:32,821 --> 00:23:37,541 for £300,000 pounds for the shop, And now a fire 375 00:23:37,701 --> 00:23:40,101 that happened almost at the same time. 376 00:23:40,261 --> 00:23:43,461 We always say coincidences happen. You should never believe them. 377 00:23:43,621 --> 00:23:44,981 When you hear a coincidence, 378 00:23:45,141 --> 00:23:46,861 next thing you hear is probably a lie. 379 00:23:48,901 --> 00:23:51,021 The police also found 380 00:23:51,181 --> 00:23:53,541 that Kurd had purchased a large amount of petrol 381 00:23:53,701 --> 00:23:58,261 three weeks before. As investigators find the policy 382 00:23:58,421 --> 00:24:02,381 and they find that an accelerant has been purchased 383 00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:06,861 in large quantities, they now can really do a thorough search 384 00:24:07,021 --> 00:24:09,981 with the idea that this is about an insurance claim, 385 00:24:10,141 --> 00:24:14,181 but it also involves murder ... So they have to be very careful 386 00:24:14,341 --> 00:24:18,821 about how they process the scene. - The investigators will look for 387 00:24:18,981 --> 00:24:23,381 extra corroborating evidence. They're going to go backwards 388 00:24:23,541 --> 00:24:27,461 and see where were the owners earlier that day? 389 00:24:27,621 --> 00:24:29,741 Check their credit cards, their cell phones, 390 00:24:29,901 --> 00:24:33,781 find out where they were earlier 391 00:24:33,941 --> 00:24:36,181 and would they have been able to set this fire? 392 00:24:38,501 --> 00:24:43,341 At about 2.30, the three conspirators were seen 393 00:24:43,501 --> 00:24:45,821 in a coffee shop in Leicester city centre. 394 00:24:45,981 --> 00:24:50,901 And then later in the afternoon, the three were seen at a restaurant 395 00:24:51,061 --> 00:24:54,021 in the Saint Matthew's area of the city, 396 00:24:54,181 --> 00:24:58,101 and the prosecutors later said that at the time 397 00:24:58,261 --> 00:25:02,221 they were finalising their plans for the explosion. 398 00:25:02,381 --> 00:25:06,581 From CCTV footage, we know that the three, 399 00:25:06,741 --> 00:25:11,821 Kurd, Hassan and Ali, met in a cafe prior to the explosion. 400 00:25:11,981 --> 00:25:15,941 So it appears that police can now identify 401 00:25:16,101 --> 00:25:18,861 at least the core team of accomplices. 402 00:25:19,021 --> 00:25:23,341 Often in conspiracies where there's money involved, 403 00:25:23,501 --> 00:25:26,861 people will start realising when we split this up four ways, 404 00:25:27,021 --> 00:25:28,821 that's a lot less for me. 405 00:25:28,981 --> 00:25:33,141 Who is expendable? The one that seemed most expendable 406 00:25:33,301 --> 00:25:36,741 was Victoria, and I would think 407 00:25:36,901 --> 00:25:40,181 the reason would be they thought she might talk 408 00:25:40,341 --> 00:25:43,261 if pressured. So this way, we get rid of her, 409 00:25:43,421 --> 00:25:47,221 we get rid of the danger of her telling anybody, 410 00:25:47,381 --> 00:25:49,421 and we also get more money for ourselves. 411 00:25:50,421 --> 00:25:54,101 At about 5.30, Kurd arrived 412 00:25:54,261 --> 00:25:57,861 back at the shop, where Victoria was still working. 413 00:25:58,021 --> 00:26:02,981 At the same time, Hassan, 414 00:26:03,141 --> 00:26:04,981 one of the fellow conspirators, 415 00:26:05,141 --> 00:26:09,621 started driving around the area, in the streets around the shop, 416 00:26:09,781 --> 00:26:15,301 in a white Audi, and he did that for the next hour 417 00:26:15,461 --> 00:26:18,181 and the minutes leading up to the explosion. 418 00:26:20,421 --> 00:26:25,301 At 6.56, the third conspirator, Ali, 419 00:26:25,461 --> 00:26:28,541 was seen at the rear of the shop. 420 00:26:28,701 --> 00:26:31,581 He walked towards the shop 421 00:26:31,741 --> 00:26:34,101 and he disappeared from view. 422 00:26:34,261 --> 00:26:37,861 He was then seen leaving the rear of the shop. 423 00:26:49,421 --> 00:26:54,381 Ali was seen on CCTV footage running away from the shop 424 00:26:54,541 --> 00:26:58,741 and running after the slow-moving white Audi, 425 00:26:58,901 --> 00:27:02,661 which was in a side street. He got into the Audi 426 00:27:02,821 --> 00:27:05,981 and it approached the end of the residential street it was in. 427 00:27:06,141 --> 00:27:10,861 To the left was the absolute devastation 428 00:27:11,021 --> 00:27:15,221 that he and his co-conspirators had just caused, 429 00:27:15,381 --> 00:27:20,301 and they turned right, drove away from the scene 430 00:27:20,461 --> 00:27:22,861 and went to Coventry, where they lived. 431 00:27:31,421 --> 00:27:35,941 Kurd had managed to get out of an alleyway 432 00:27:36,101 --> 00:27:39,381 and into a side street and even made his way onto Hinckley Road, 433 00:27:39,541 --> 00:27:44,421 where he was immediately surrounded by people who wanted to help him. 434 00:27:44,581 --> 00:27:47,221 They thought he was a victim. Somebody hugged him 435 00:27:47,381 --> 00:27:50,221 and somebody said to him, you're safe now. You're OK. 436 00:27:52,061 --> 00:27:55,181 But they didn't know, of course, that he was involved. 437 00:28:00,301 --> 00:28:04,221 As police realise they have a conspiracy, 438 00:28:04,381 --> 00:28:07,101 they know that there's going to be a leader, 439 00:28:07,261 --> 00:28:10,341 somebody who had the vision, the plan, who directs everything. 440 00:28:10,501 --> 00:28:13,421 And the likely person is the shopkeeper, 441 00:28:13,581 --> 00:28:17,181 because he's the direct recipient of the insurance money. 442 00:28:17,341 --> 00:28:20,541 He certainly involved his girlfriend in some manner, 443 00:28:20,701 --> 00:28:25,461 and he certainly involved Ali. Hassan looks as if he's involved 444 00:28:25,621 --> 00:28:28,301 in some way. But what they'll be doing 445 00:28:28,461 --> 00:28:33,501 is really pressuring the two accomplices who will benefit. 446 00:28:33,661 --> 00:28:37,661 But accomplices are typically the ones who break. 447 00:28:37,821 --> 00:28:42,021 So they're going to want to get accomplices to turn on Kurd. 448 00:28:47,621 --> 00:28:50,581 The next big update we got was on the Wednesday afternoon, 449 00:28:50,741 --> 00:28:53,861 when police said that three men had been arrested 450 00:28:54,021 --> 00:28:56,101 on suspicion of manslaughter. 451 00:28:56,261 --> 00:28:59,701 We still didn't know the cause of the explosion 452 00:28:59,861 --> 00:29:03,981 at that stage. The police said the men were all in their 30s, 453 00:29:04,141 --> 00:29:07,981 and they said they weren't going to issue any more information 454 00:29:08,141 --> 00:29:11,181 at that time. - One of the problems 455 00:29:11,341 --> 00:29:14,621 with doing any type of arson is, what was the intent? 456 00:29:14,781 --> 00:29:17,461 Was the intent just to cause a little bit of damage 457 00:29:17,621 --> 00:29:19,381 and then claim the insurance? 458 00:29:19,541 --> 00:29:22,901 Or was there another element? I mean, was there actual malice, 459 00:29:23,061 --> 00:29:25,461 we're going to get rid of this witness that we know 460 00:29:25,621 --> 00:29:28,261 happens to be there at the time? That's one of the things 461 00:29:28,421 --> 00:29:30,941 that police must sort out, because if you determine 462 00:29:31,101 --> 00:29:35,381 that this is an intentional act, it wasn't just to destroy the shop, 463 00:29:35,541 --> 00:29:40,141 they had an ulterior motive also to eliminate a potential witness, 464 00:29:40,301 --> 00:29:42,981 and again, somebody they don't have to share money with, 465 00:29:43,141 --> 00:29:46,621 that's a whole different picture. - What police would be thinking 466 00:29:46,781 --> 00:29:49,141 when they realised 467 00:29:49,301 --> 00:29:52,021 that Kurd might have actually set up his girlfriend to die 468 00:29:52,181 --> 00:29:55,941 shows that he's pretty cold-hearted, maybe a psychopath, 469 00:29:56,101 --> 00:29:59,781 and they have to be very careful about how they question him, 470 00:29:59,941 --> 00:30:02,421 because he will have no remorse about what he did. 471 00:30:02,581 --> 00:30:05,941 This isn't just about claiming insurance money, 472 00:30:06,101 --> 00:30:12,101 this becomes a lot more sinister. And he will have created a narrative 473 00:30:12,261 --> 00:30:16,981 to protect himself at anybody else's cost. 474 00:30:17,141 --> 00:30:21,101 He'll turn on anybody else to keep his narrative going. 475 00:30:22,941 --> 00:30:25,701 Another thing the police have to determine 476 00:30:25,861 --> 00:30:28,701 is whether or not this was an intentional act 477 00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:32,181 concerning those who lived above. Was the fire started 478 00:30:32,341 --> 00:30:35,741 when they know nobody was upstairs? Or was it started 479 00:30:35,901 --> 00:30:38,741 when they knowingly knew someone was upstairs? 480 00:30:38,901 --> 00:30:41,821 Second thing is, how much accelerant was used? 481 00:30:41,981 --> 00:30:47,101 Was it just enough to start a fire in order to destroy the shop? 482 00:30:47,261 --> 00:30:51,021 Or was it specifically designed to burn the entire place down? 483 00:30:51,181 --> 00:30:54,341 That's something that the police are going to have to determine. 484 00:30:54,501 --> 00:30:59,141 There's a big question mark about whether the perpetrators knew 485 00:30:59,301 --> 00:31:02,621 or should have known there was a family living above, 486 00:31:02,781 --> 00:31:05,781 and knew or should have known there were people in the building 487 00:31:05,941 --> 00:31:08,061 at the time they said the explosion. 488 00:31:08,221 --> 00:31:10,421 And that's important, 489 00:31:10,581 --> 00:31:13,941 because it would have been manslaughter if they didn't know, 490 00:31:14,101 --> 00:31:16,621 if they were not aware that there were people 491 00:31:16,781 --> 00:31:18,981 in the building and they didn't intend 492 00:31:19,141 --> 00:31:23,181 or didn't believe that there were people going to be hurt. 493 00:31:23,341 --> 00:31:27,101 And that would change if the perpetrators knew 494 00:31:27,261 --> 00:31:30,181 or should have known that there were people 495 00:31:30,341 --> 00:31:32,181 in the building when they set the fire. 496 00:31:34,261 --> 00:31:37,661 The difference between manslaughter and murder is intent. 497 00:31:37,821 --> 00:31:43,781 Murder requires intent. Manslaughter does not. 498 00:31:43,941 --> 00:31:45,981 The charge was changed to murder. 499 00:31:46,141 --> 00:31:50,061 I look at this as a very typical staged event. 500 00:31:50,221 --> 00:31:54,221 wherein there's an accidental fire in order to get insurance. 501 00:31:54,381 --> 00:31:57,701 What's important is we go back and we say, 502 00:31:57,861 --> 00:32:00,421 hey, there's the increase of the insurance, 503 00:32:00,581 --> 00:32:03,421 there's all the steps they took to get all the materials. 504 00:32:03,581 --> 00:32:06,461 It's very clear. This is the first time 505 00:32:06,621 --> 00:32:09,941 that they've actually done an arson, but it's not our first arson. 506 00:32:10,101 --> 00:32:12,821 We know what we're looking for. We know what's there. 507 00:32:30,061 --> 00:32:33,061 The three men are accused, and they come to court 508 00:32:33,221 --> 00:32:35,421 and they say they're not guilty, 509 00:32:35,581 --> 00:32:38,021 they were not involved in anything nefarious. 510 00:32:38,181 --> 00:32:41,621 It's likely that when Kurd chose his accomplices, 511 00:32:41,781 --> 00:32:46,301 he had ensured that they were going to be loyal, 512 00:32:46,461 --> 00:32:49,541 that they'd keep their mouths shut. I think in part it was fear, 513 00:32:49,701 --> 00:32:51,701 but in part it was a sense of loyalty 514 00:32:51,861 --> 00:32:55,181 and connection, because they all came from the same country together. 515 00:32:55,341 --> 00:32:58,981 They were in the same community, and they kind of 516 00:32:59,141 --> 00:33:01,821 have nothing to lose by sticking by their story. 517 00:33:06,341 --> 00:33:09,541 As the trial is approaching, the media is covering this, 518 00:33:09,701 --> 00:33:14,821 because five people died, and there were multiple injuries, 519 00:33:14,981 --> 00:33:17,021 and other buildings were put at risk. 520 00:33:17,181 --> 00:33:20,021 So this is a significant community event, 521 00:33:20,181 --> 00:33:23,861 and people are attuned to wanting the perpetrators 522 00:33:24,021 --> 00:33:27,101 to be found guilty and be held accountable. 523 00:33:27,261 --> 00:33:31,661 People are angry and they want to know 524 00:33:31,821 --> 00:33:34,661 who had done this and why they'd done it, 525 00:33:34,821 --> 00:33:37,221 and how whatever it was that had happened 526 00:33:37,381 --> 00:33:38,781 had led to so many deaths. 527 00:33:38,941 --> 00:33:43,781 I've been reporting on stories in Leicester for 25 years, 528 00:33:43,941 --> 00:33:49,621 and I've never encountered an incident that was as horrific, 529 00:33:49,781 --> 00:33:53,301 and that caused so much fury 530 00:33:53,461 --> 00:33:55,861 and so much disbelief. 531 00:34:05,621 --> 00:34:09,341 So it transpired that the shop that Kurd had opened 532 00:34:09,501 --> 00:34:12,861 wasn't doing very well, and he and his two conspirators 533 00:34:13,021 --> 00:34:16,581 decided to do what is commonly known as 534 00:34:16,741 --> 00:34:18,621 an insurance job on the shop. 535 00:34:18,781 --> 00:34:21,941 They decided that they would blow it up, 536 00:34:22,101 --> 00:34:24,101 claim the insurance money. 537 00:34:25,421 --> 00:34:28,741 Victoria also knew of the plan. 538 00:34:28,901 --> 00:34:33,581 She was involved in taking out the insurance policy 539 00:34:33,741 --> 00:34:37,701 for the shop, so she knew what was going on. 540 00:34:37,861 --> 00:34:40,621 But the three men thought that she knew too much. 541 00:34:40,781 --> 00:34:46,781 So on the night of the explosion, Kurd left Victoria in the shop 542 00:34:46,941 --> 00:34:49,501 as he went to the storeroom to get the beer, 543 00:34:49,661 --> 00:34:51,821 knowing the explosion was about to happen, 544 00:34:51,981 --> 00:34:54,541 knowing that he was near the door, he could escape. 545 00:34:54,701 --> 00:34:56,061 He left her to die as well. 546 00:34:56,221 --> 00:35:00,221 He comes across as highly self-centred, 547 00:35:00,381 --> 00:35:02,701 psychopathic, without remorse, 548 00:35:02,861 --> 00:35:06,221 sacrificing his girlfriend after getting her help. 549 00:35:06,381 --> 00:35:09,821 So he's a particularly bad character for people. 550 00:35:13,821 --> 00:35:17,181 The issue for me was being present in the court 551 00:35:17,341 --> 00:35:20,381 so I could hear first-hand, you know, what they said went on, 552 00:35:20,541 --> 00:35:25,701 and... I think 553 00:35:25,861 --> 00:35:29,421 that's what I felt then and now 554 00:35:29,581 --> 00:35:32,541 is what a waste of young lives, 555 00:35:32,701 --> 00:35:34,181 purely for money. 556 00:35:35,941 --> 00:35:38,181 It was a young family. 557 00:35:38,341 --> 00:35:43,701 They were lovely people. And what a waste. 558 00:35:47,541 --> 00:35:50,861 I think part of what the jury has to grapple with 559 00:35:51,021 --> 00:35:54,541 is these guys are lighting a building on fire, 560 00:35:54,701 --> 00:35:58,061 they have no idea how far-reaching this would be, 561 00:35:58,221 --> 00:36:02,341 how many fatalities and injuries it could potentially have, 562 00:36:02,501 --> 00:36:05,781 but they do it anyway, and I think that's part of it is 563 00:36:05,941 --> 00:36:09,021 not just that they knowingly killed people 564 00:36:09,181 --> 00:36:12,621 who are in the apartments, but they knowingly 565 00:36:12,781 --> 00:36:15,861 put many people at risk. 566 00:36:16,021 --> 00:36:19,421 They couldn't have controlled what happened, 567 00:36:19,581 --> 00:36:24,701 and they did it anyway. So the sense of calculation 568 00:36:24,861 --> 00:36:28,581 just for financial gain and nothing more 569 00:36:28,741 --> 00:36:32,101 is astonishing to people. This is so petty. 570 00:36:32,261 --> 00:36:35,261 People died and were injured 571 00:36:35,421 --> 00:36:39,581 for something as small as a financial incentive. 572 00:36:39,741 --> 00:36:43,661 The fact that the defendants showed no emotion 573 00:36:43,821 --> 00:36:46,061 would come across as seeming indifferent 574 00:36:46,221 --> 00:36:50,221 and without any kind of remorse, 575 00:36:50,381 --> 00:36:52,541 without any sense of what they had done. 576 00:36:52,701 --> 00:36:56,781 The jury will, as they're coming to grips with the evidence 577 00:36:56,941 --> 00:37:00,901 and thinking these guys are guilty, are seeing people 578 00:37:01,061 --> 00:37:04,661 who just don't care,. and that will also be alienating. 579 00:37:13,901 --> 00:37:18,141 After hearing all the evidence, the jury ultimately decided 580 00:37:18,301 --> 00:37:21,381 that the three conspirators were guilty of murder. 581 00:37:21,541 --> 00:37:24,981 That meant the jury was sure 582 00:37:25,141 --> 00:37:28,381 that those three men knew the flat was occupied 583 00:37:28,541 --> 00:37:31,861 when they caused the explosion to happen. 584 00:37:33,221 --> 00:37:36,901 That's.... it's hard to put into words, isn't it? Honestly. 585 00:37:41,181 --> 00:37:45,301 That, to me, is beyond evil. 586 00:37:48,181 --> 00:37:51,101 I think people saw it as justice 587 00:37:51,261 --> 00:37:53,741 that they didn't get away completely, 588 00:37:53,901 --> 00:37:57,021 although I think any thought s about justice 589 00:37:57,181 --> 00:38:01,381 was about how terrible it was this family lost their lives. 590 00:38:03,261 --> 00:38:04,901 Nearly a whole family. 591 00:38:07,741 --> 00:38:12,181 So it was important that they'd got their dues. 592 00:38:14,461 --> 00:38:19,141 But I think the greater thought was about how tragic this was. 593 00:38:20,061 --> 00:38:25,421 It was done as an act of insurance, 594 00:38:25,581 --> 00:38:27,221 you know, just to get money. 595 00:38:27,381 --> 00:38:31,221 But how you link those two at the time was quite difficult, 596 00:38:31,381 --> 00:38:36,821 I think, really. How did Jose and Scotty, 597 00:38:36,981 --> 00:38:39,661 how did they deal with that? 598 00:38:39,821 --> 00:38:44,141 Their mother and their two brothers, and then Leah were killed. 599 00:38:44,301 --> 00:38:46,021 I mean, it's just dreadful. 600 00:38:47,501 --> 00:38:50,541 It seemed like they knew what they were doing... 601 00:38:51,901 --> 00:38:53,941 ...and didn't care about the consequences. 602 00:38:55,061 --> 00:38:57,341 I felt it there as well. 603 00:38:57,501 --> 00:39:01,621 But afterwards, when you're picking up, you know, 604 00:39:01,781 --> 00:39:05,461 picking up the pieces, trying to adjust 605 00:39:05,621 --> 00:39:08,221 and see what's going on, that's when you felt it. 606 00:39:09,501 --> 00:39:12,981 This was such a cold and calculated plan 607 00:39:13,141 --> 00:39:17,701 to stage an explosion just to benefit from the insurance. 608 00:39:18,781 --> 00:39:22,221 The insurance payout was £300,000. 609 00:39:22,381 --> 00:39:24,621 So each of these co-conspirators 610 00:39:24,781 --> 00:39:29,061 stood to gain £100,000 apiece. 611 00:39:29,221 --> 00:39:32,821 It's tragic to think that these three people 612 00:39:32,981 --> 00:39:35,741 were so focused on getting money 613 00:39:35,901 --> 00:39:38,941 that they put the value of human life 614 00:39:39,101 --> 00:39:42,941 below the money that they stood to gain. 615 00:39:43,901 --> 00:39:47,141 No amount of jail time is going to bring back mothers, 616 00:39:47,301 --> 00:39:51,301 fathers, friends, people who were lost or harmed 617 00:39:51,461 --> 00:39:52,621 during this explosion. 618 00:39:52,781 --> 00:39:57,061 There's no amount... there is no amount of years, 619 00:39:57,221 --> 00:40:01,701 there's no amount of prison that can bring back a human life. 620 00:40:01,861 --> 00:40:06,101 It just doesn't seem to make any sense 621 00:40:06,261 --> 00:40:11,861 that somebody thought that gain was worth killing just one person, 622 00:40:12,021 --> 00:40:17,541 let alone five, and putting the entire area at risk. 623 00:40:17,701 --> 00:40:21,421 It doesn't seem worth it. It's really hard to fathom a mind 624 00:40:21,581 --> 00:40:23,821 that could calculate like this 625 00:40:23,981 --> 00:40:29,861 and think walking away with even £100,000 626 00:40:30,021 --> 00:40:32,821 for their share made this worth it. 627 00:40:41,341 --> 00:40:44,341 Going back there, you could see the effect 628 00:40:44,501 --> 00:40:47,021 of what was a huge explosion. because the gap. 629 00:40:47,181 --> 00:40:52,421 The city council or some company. put fencing around the area, 630 00:40:52,581 --> 00:40:56,981 not to hide it but to make it safe. 631 00:40:57,141 --> 00:41:00,261 People talking about, what are we going to do? 632 00:41:00,421 --> 00:41:03,301 Are we going to fill that gap? The idea going around, 633 00:41:03,461 --> 00:41:06,021 we need to make it into a little park. 634 00:41:06,181 --> 00:41:10,421 But what we did was make a little park memorial opposite. 635 00:41:10,581 --> 00:41:14,261 I hope that people still remember that in some way. 636 00:41:16,101 --> 00:41:18,221 For most people, it's impossible to imagine 637 00:41:18,381 --> 00:41:21,701 something like this affecting their family. 638 00:41:21,861 --> 00:41:24,541 And I cannot begin to imagine 639 00:41:24,701 --> 00:41:28,701 how Jose and Scotty 640 00:41:28,861 --> 00:41:30,141 and Leah's family 641 00:41:30,301 --> 00:41:33,501 even began to rebuild their lives, 642 00:41:33,661 --> 00:41:35,981 if they've managed to rebuild their lives after. 643 00:41:36,141 --> 00:41:38,741 Of course, the impact on those families 644 00:41:38,901 --> 00:41:40,421 will be there forever. 645 00:41:42,221 --> 00:41:46,221 There's the tragedy, and there's the crime, 646 00:41:46,381 --> 00:41:50,581 the explosion. In terms of the tragedy, 647 00:41:50,741 --> 00:41:54,221 you can't you can't foretell how you could deal with that. 648 00:41:54,381 --> 00:41:57,341 You just make sure that you've got people 649 00:41:57,501 --> 00:42:03,501 supporting and around. That goes on for some time. It doesn't stop. 650 00:42:05,501 --> 00:42:08,821 It's going to take time for the community to heal 651 00:42:08,981 --> 00:42:11,381 from this tragedy and to heal from this loss, 652 00:42:11,541 --> 00:42:14,621 and there's also a physical scar, a physical reminder 653 00:42:14,781 --> 00:42:19,061 that will always be there. Every time anyone walks by the place 654 00:42:19,221 --> 00:42:20,861 where this building was, 655 00:42:21,021 --> 00:42:23,741 they're going to be reminded of what happened there. 656 00:42:55,981 --> 00:42:57,981 Subtitles by Sky Access Services 52916

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