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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,801 --> 00:00:04,172 Morris: Its birth... serendipitous. 2 00:00:04,838 --> 00:00:09,710 Its life... shrouded in mystery. 3 00:00:09,743 --> 00:00:12,146 Understood by few... 4 00:00:16,584 --> 00:00:19,120 ...feared by many. 5 00:00:19,153 --> 00:00:21,189 He ate him? He literally cut him up and ate him? 6 00:00:21,222 --> 00:00:24,058 Yeah. 7 00:00:24,092 --> 00:00:26,427 Morris: I've been fascinated by psychoactive drugs 8 00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:28,229 my whole life. 9 00:00:28,262 --> 00:00:32,466 I love to study their chemistry and impact on society, 10 00:00:32,500 --> 00:00:34,802 and my work has allowed me 11 00:00:34,835 --> 00:00:38,172 to investigate extraordinary substances around the world. 12 00:00:38,206 --> 00:00:41,442 Yet there are still mysteries that remain. 13 00:00:44,178 --> 00:00:45,513 PCP's something like an alternate reality. 14 00:00:45,546 --> 00:00:46,814 You see something. 15 00:00:46,847 --> 00:00:48,382 It's like knowledge. You can see something. 16 00:00:48,416 --> 00:00:50,484 And once you see that, you can't never go back. 17 00:00:50,518 --> 00:00:56,190 This is PCP...as you've never seen it before. 18 00:00:58,359 --> 00:01:01,795 ** 19 00:01:21,915 --> 00:01:26,620 I'm in New Mexico to visit the home of Timothy Wyllie... 20 00:01:26,654 --> 00:01:28,456 Hey. Great to meet you. -Great to see you. 21 00:01:28,489 --> 00:01:32,526 Yeah. Welcome to the, uh, to the shack. Yes. 22 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,163 Morris: ...a spiritualist and founding member 23 00:01:35,196 --> 00:01:36,830 of The Process Church, 24 00:01:36,864 --> 00:01:40,201 who used PCP to inspire his artwork 25 00:01:40,234 --> 00:01:43,371 and the mythology in which the Garden of Eden serpent 26 00:01:43,404 --> 00:01:45,406 is revealed to be an ancient race 27 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:48,176 of space gypsy philosophers. 28 00:01:50,178 --> 00:01:52,313 I had taken some PCP think-- 29 00:01:52,346 --> 00:01:54,915 thinking about the Adam and Eve myth. 30 00:01:54,948 --> 00:01:57,751 I said, "What do we know about Adam and Eve? 31 00:01:57,785 --> 00:02:00,288 Who the hell is the serpent, you know?" 32 00:02:00,321 --> 00:02:03,491 And my pen started working. 33 00:02:03,524 --> 00:02:09,330 And so each of the pages I did using PCP. 34 00:02:09,363 --> 00:02:12,400 You tune in, and you can feel the undertow, 35 00:02:12,433 --> 00:02:15,503 what's going on underneath, this reality, 36 00:02:15,536 --> 00:02:19,640 which is just, like, a heartbeat away. 37 00:02:19,673 --> 00:02:23,177 When I first came across PCP, 38 00:02:23,211 --> 00:02:26,247 that would have been probably in the mid... 39 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,449 No, the early '80s, I would say. 40 00:02:28,482 --> 00:02:29,750 I thought immediately, this -- 41 00:02:29,783 --> 00:02:31,352 this is something very different. 42 00:02:31,385 --> 00:02:32,686 I mean, I'd had experience with acid, you know, 43 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:33,921 with all of that. 44 00:02:33,954 --> 00:02:37,958 All the standard, um, entheogens. 45 00:02:37,991 --> 00:02:39,593 But this is something very strange. 46 00:02:39,627 --> 00:02:41,729 This is something different because with -- 47 00:02:41,762 --> 00:02:45,433 with your normal entheogen, um, it -- 48 00:02:45,466 --> 00:02:46,767 in a sense, you can feel your body, 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,369 and you can leave your body, right? 50 00:02:48,402 --> 00:02:51,605 You're somewhere else. 51 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,607 With this particular molecule, 52 00:02:53,641 --> 00:02:55,309 the sense I get is you go up. 53 00:02:55,343 --> 00:02:58,379 You take the -- you take it with you. 54 00:02:58,412 --> 00:03:01,449 Morris: Dissociative anesthetics are a chemically diverse class 55 00:03:01,482 --> 00:03:04,418 that share an ability to disconnect the user's body 56 00:03:04,452 --> 00:03:05,953 from their mind. 57 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:10,324 In 1956, the chemist Vic Maddox 58 00:03:10,358 --> 00:03:12,626 serendipitously discovered PCP, 59 00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:13,961 and, one year later, the drug was being tested 60 00:03:13,994 --> 00:03:17,431 as an anesthetic in human surgeries. 61 00:03:17,465 --> 00:03:20,634 But dissociative effects limited its clinical application, 62 00:03:20,668 --> 00:03:22,303 and it soon found a home 63 00:03:22,336 --> 00:03:25,339 with non-medical users on the street. 64 00:03:25,373 --> 00:03:28,609 When you smoke it, everything goes into symmetrical patterns. 65 00:03:28,642 --> 00:03:30,344 It's like gears will... 66 00:03:30,378 --> 00:03:33,013 Like, gears come together like this. 67 00:03:33,046 --> 00:03:35,449 You -- you understand the gear wheels. 68 00:03:35,483 --> 00:03:38,586 Morris: And those people used the drug to explore 69 00:03:38,619 --> 00:03:43,291 strange realms of the mind that are otherwise inaccessible. 70 00:03:43,324 --> 00:03:44,725 When did you first decide that you wanted 71 00:03:44,758 --> 00:03:46,860 to smoke PCP and interact with dolphins? 72 00:03:46,894 --> 00:03:49,363 What was the motivation for doing that? 73 00:03:49,397 --> 00:03:53,834 I'd always been interested in dolphin intelligence. 74 00:03:53,867 --> 00:03:55,703 Using PCP, especially with, 75 00:03:55,736 --> 00:03:59,607 uh, dolphins, was just wonderful. 76 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,542 Um, you can just go straight into, 77 00:04:01,575 --> 00:04:03,377 you know, communication with them. 78 00:04:03,411 --> 00:04:04,878 How would that manifest? 79 00:04:04,912 --> 00:04:07,047 What would be an -- an example? 80 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,683 One of the questions I -- telepathic questions 81 00:04:09,717 --> 00:04:12,353 I had asked was, 82 00:04:12,386 --> 00:04:15,556 how do you convey information down through time? 83 00:04:15,589 --> 00:04:17,758 How do you store information? 84 00:04:17,791 --> 00:04:21,562 And I was out, um, about waist-deep one time. 85 00:04:21,595 --> 00:04:23,297 There was a dolphin kind of swimming out 86 00:04:23,331 --> 00:04:24,898 about 10 or 15 feet away. 87 00:04:24,932 --> 00:04:28,836 And I had the impulse to pick up a sand dollar. 88 00:04:28,869 --> 00:04:30,671 And when I looked at the sand dollar, 89 00:04:30,704 --> 00:04:35,676 the impression that came was 90 00:04:35,709 --> 00:04:37,745 that these sand dollars 91 00:04:37,778 --> 00:04:41,849 are information storage devices. 92 00:04:41,882 --> 00:04:45,619 In other words, dolphin can project, 93 00:04:45,653 --> 00:04:47,455 uh, 'cause they -- 94 00:04:47,488 --> 00:04:50,391 they use sound to project images. 95 00:04:50,424 --> 00:04:52,460 They project that image onto that 96 00:04:52,493 --> 00:04:54,795 and it stays within, right? 97 00:04:54,828 --> 00:04:59,032 'Cause when shells grow, they grow, um, holographically, 98 00:04:59,066 --> 00:05:01,034 if you know what I mean. 99 00:05:01,068 --> 00:05:04,338 Um... -I don't know. 100 00:05:04,372 --> 00:05:06,374 It's a really interesting idea. -Well, the shell will -- 101 00:05:06,407 --> 00:05:09,343 will retain this information as it grows. 102 00:05:09,377 --> 00:05:11,879 So another dolphin will come along later, 103 00:05:11,912 --> 00:05:15,683 will ping that with the same, uh, frequency, 104 00:05:15,716 --> 00:05:17,017 and they will receive the information 105 00:05:17,050 --> 00:05:18,619 stored in the shell. 106 00:05:18,652 --> 00:05:19,753 So this was something -- 107 00:05:19,787 --> 00:05:21,489 this was a realization that you had? 108 00:05:21,522 --> 00:05:22,856 This was. Yes. 109 00:05:22,890 --> 00:05:24,124 You were on PCP, 110 00:05:24,157 --> 00:05:25,593 you picked up a sand dollar, 111 00:05:25,626 --> 00:05:27,528 and you understood its significance 112 00:05:27,561 --> 00:05:28,996 in recording information for dolphins. 113 00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:31,499 I was -- I was in this telepathic bond 114 00:05:31,532 --> 00:05:34,535 with the dolphins while this was happening. 115 00:05:34,568 --> 00:05:36,970 Wow. Wow. 116 00:05:37,004 --> 00:05:39,907 That's an amazing story. 117 00:05:42,075 --> 00:05:45,746 Morris: Timothy is about to snort PCP hydrochloride, 118 00:05:45,779 --> 00:05:48,416 and I'm hoping to learn more about the qualitative effects 119 00:05:48,449 --> 00:05:51,619 of the drug as he dissociates. 120 00:05:54,588 --> 00:05:57,124 Well, I always -- I always like to say a little blessing. 121 00:05:57,157 --> 00:05:58,792 A blessing to our trip. 122 00:05:58,826 --> 00:06:01,562 Thank you very much, 123 00:06:01,595 --> 00:06:03,997 and thank you, molecule. 124 00:06:04,031 --> 00:06:06,700 May we have a -- a wonderful time together. 125 00:06:14,141 --> 00:06:15,576 Okay. Be careful. 126 00:06:15,609 --> 00:06:16,810 Just one more. Just one more. 127 00:06:16,844 --> 00:06:18,479 I mean, it's up to you, of course. 128 00:06:18,512 --> 00:06:20,414 But I'm amazed that you can tolerate this much. 129 00:06:20,448 --> 00:06:21,849 I just would hate -- I would feel bad 130 00:06:21,882 --> 00:06:24,852 if you were to feel, uh... Okay, okay, okay. 131 00:06:24,885 --> 00:06:26,620 We're all responsible for ourselves. 132 00:06:26,654 --> 00:06:28,456 -Okay. -Don't you lay that on me. 133 00:06:31,725 --> 00:06:33,961 Can you feel the effect of it now? 134 00:06:33,994 --> 00:06:36,029 -No. Mnh-mnh. -Really? No effect? 135 00:06:36,063 --> 00:06:38,499 -Not now. -Wow. 136 00:06:38,532 --> 00:06:40,934 Amazing. 137 00:06:52,613 --> 00:06:55,015 Let's see where that gets us. 138 00:06:58,185 --> 00:07:01,121 Let's have a look at how this particular 139 00:07:01,154 --> 00:07:04,792 substance, um, affects. 140 00:07:04,825 --> 00:07:07,127 I guess this is performance art. 141 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,063 But I have nothing to perform. 142 00:07:10,097 --> 00:07:12,766 It's such a personal, private thing. 143 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,502 You know, when I do something like that, 144 00:07:14,535 --> 00:07:17,004 you know...or that. 145 00:07:17,037 --> 00:07:19,673 Well, in for a penny, in for a pound, I guess. 146 00:07:19,707 --> 00:07:21,542 I don't know what I'm doing. 147 00:07:28,949 --> 00:07:30,584 I can feel it. 148 00:07:30,618 --> 00:07:32,085 -You feel something now? -Yeah. 149 00:07:32,119 --> 00:07:35,623 A lightness of spirit. -I'm glad you're feeling it. 150 00:07:35,656 --> 00:07:36,857 I was about to say... -No. I'm -- 151 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:39,026 I'm starting to get a little buzzed. 152 00:07:39,059 --> 00:07:43,030 My -- my limbs are much more plastic, uh, than normal. 153 00:07:43,063 --> 00:07:45,065 I feel more like this. 154 00:07:45,098 --> 00:07:46,900 The extraordinary thing about this substance 155 00:07:46,934 --> 00:07:50,938 is how it completely gets rid of any pain. 156 00:07:50,971 --> 00:07:53,574 Oh, yeah. 157 00:07:53,607 --> 00:07:55,108 Wallach: There's some similarities 158 00:07:55,142 --> 00:07:56,610 with some other drugs, 159 00:07:56,644 --> 00:07:57,811 but there's no question that PCP induces 160 00:07:57,845 --> 00:07:59,847 a unique altered state. 161 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,750 Morris: To gain further insight into PCP, 162 00:08:02,783 --> 00:08:06,286 I visited my friend Jason Wallach, 163 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:08,956 an expert on the chemistry of dissociative anesthetics. 164 00:08:08,989 --> 00:08:12,192 Jason has synthesized over 100 PCP derivatives 165 00:08:12,225 --> 00:08:15,228 and studied their pharmacology. 166 00:08:15,262 --> 00:08:18,165 PCP, scientifically speaking, 167 00:08:18,198 --> 00:08:20,934 is, um, phencyclidine, 168 00:08:20,968 --> 00:08:23,170 uh, which is a single chemical. 169 00:08:23,203 --> 00:08:25,906 It is completely synthetic and man-made. 170 00:08:25,939 --> 00:08:28,175 To this date, it's never been found in nature, 171 00:08:28,208 --> 00:08:30,644 nor have, um, even derivatives of it. 172 00:08:30,678 --> 00:08:33,046 Victor Maddox, who was actually doing research into 173 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,983 completely unrelated compounds pharmacologically, 174 00:08:36,016 --> 00:08:38,185 he was looking for opioid analgesics. 175 00:08:38,218 --> 00:08:39,753 Painkillers. 176 00:08:39,787 --> 00:08:41,254 And when he was performing one of the reactions, 177 00:08:41,288 --> 00:08:43,256 he noticed that it produced a product 178 00:08:43,290 --> 00:08:45,926 that was different from what he expected. 179 00:08:45,959 --> 00:08:48,061 And when he did, he did some follow-up experiments, 180 00:08:48,095 --> 00:08:51,665 one of those of which produced PCP. 181 00:08:51,699 --> 00:08:56,036 Dissociative drugs all bind to the NMDA receptor. 182 00:08:56,069 --> 00:08:57,304 It's expressed throughout 183 00:08:57,337 --> 00:08:59,206 the entire central nervous system 184 00:08:59,239 --> 00:09:01,208 and it plays a number of roles, 185 00:09:01,241 --> 00:09:05,646 particularly in sensory processing, learning, memory. 186 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,115 So what these drugs do is block 187 00:09:08,148 --> 00:09:10,818 this normal signaling pathway in the brain. 188 00:09:10,851 --> 00:09:13,787 Uh, phencyclidine is the active component. 189 00:09:13,821 --> 00:09:16,223 It's definitely the psychoactive drug 190 00:09:16,256 --> 00:09:18,692 that's causing the desirable effects. 191 00:09:21,228 --> 00:09:23,964 -How are you feeling? -I feel like sitting down. 192 00:09:23,997 --> 00:09:25,833 Yeah? Let's sit down. 193 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:33,106 Yes, that last one popped me over the edge. 194 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:34,808 I mean, the fact that I feel, 195 00:09:34,842 --> 00:09:37,978 and I suspect you feel part of the land right now. 196 00:09:38,011 --> 00:09:39,212 Yeah. 197 00:09:39,246 --> 00:09:42,015 I feel I'm growing out of the land. 198 00:09:42,049 --> 00:09:45,318 But it's such a subjective sense. 199 00:09:45,352 --> 00:09:47,320 It's powerful, 200 00:09:47,354 --> 00:09:52,392 but it, you know, it's not transferable. 201 00:09:52,425 --> 00:09:55,963 I mean, speaking personally, for me, 202 00:09:55,996 --> 00:10:00,634 these substances are, um...are internal substances. 203 00:10:00,668 --> 00:10:03,103 You know, they're -- they're something 204 00:10:03,136 --> 00:10:04,805 that happens inside. 205 00:10:04,838 --> 00:10:07,374 Morris: What do you think would happen to society 206 00:10:07,407 --> 00:10:10,844 if dissociatives never were discovered? 207 00:10:10,878 --> 00:10:13,013 I don't know. 208 00:10:13,046 --> 00:10:16,216 PCP was an accident, you know? 209 00:10:16,249 --> 00:10:17,751 It wasn't... 210 00:10:17,785 --> 00:10:20,654 Well, what is an accident, you see? 211 00:10:20,688 --> 00:10:22,089 I mean, an accident is some -- 212 00:10:22,122 --> 00:10:25,025 is simply something that happens 213 00:10:25,058 --> 00:10:27,761 that people don't understand the causation. 214 00:10:27,795 --> 00:10:29,162 Yeah. 215 00:10:32,032 --> 00:10:34,234 Everything happens intentionally. 216 00:10:39,740 --> 00:10:40,908 Yeah. 217 00:10:40,941 --> 00:10:42,743 Morris: Timothy is a rare example 218 00:10:42,776 --> 00:10:45,746 of an outspoken PCP proponent, 219 00:10:45,779 --> 00:10:47,047 someone who's used the drug 220 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,150 to inspire his artwork and philosophy. 221 00:10:50,183 --> 00:10:52,085 But stories such as Timothy's 222 00:10:52,119 --> 00:10:54,922 are seldom depicted in the news. 223 00:11:14,007 --> 00:11:18,078 Morris: PCP is more commonly associated with cannibalism 224 00:11:18,111 --> 00:11:20,981 and superhuman strength 225 00:11:21,014 --> 00:11:24,251 than medicine and mind expansion, 226 00:11:24,284 --> 00:11:26,887 the unsurprising result of 50 years 227 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,956 of PCP scare stories 228 00:11:28,989 --> 00:11:31,024 and other negative reporting. 229 00:11:31,058 --> 00:11:33,861 Man: It definitely can kill people. 230 00:11:36,229 --> 00:11:38,932 Morris: So I went to visit David E. Smith, 231 00:11:38,966 --> 00:11:41,234 a doctor who witnessed PCP use 232 00:11:41,268 --> 00:11:43,070 on the streets of San Francisco 233 00:11:43,103 --> 00:11:46,974 long before the drug became a media sensation. 234 00:11:49,142 --> 00:11:51,912 Morris: PCP is this misunderstood drug, 235 00:11:51,945 --> 00:11:54,381 and it seems as if it's almost always been 236 00:11:54,414 --> 00:11:55,983 a misunderstood drug. 237 00:11:56,016 --> 00:11:58,385 We were really the first to identify it 238 00:11:58,418 --> 00:12:00,353 because all the new drugs 239 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:04,124 came out here in the Haight-Ashbury. 240 00:12:04,157 --> 00:12:07,060 In the Panhandle, they had this big concert. 241 00:12:07,094 --> 00:12:08,962 Uh, about 1967, 242 00:12:08,996 --> 00:12:11,464 and they threw out these capsules, 243 00:12:11,498 --> 00:12:13,333 and people would take 'em. 244 00:12:13,366 --> 00:12:15,936 But we found, when the individuals 245 00:12:15,969 --> 00:12:17,404 started having a bad trip, 246 00:12:17,437 --> 00:12:20,407 they weren't bad trips like LSD. 247 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,009 They were rigid. 248 00:12:22,042 --> 00:12:23,977 They were catatonic. 249 00:12:24,011 --> 00:12:25,512 They were violent. 250 00:12:25,545 --> 00:12:29,116 The classic talk-down is you engage the person, 251 00:12:29,149 --> 00:12:31,551 get the mind off the thing that's bothering them. 252 00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:33,453 But when you tried to engage 253 00:12:33,486 --> 00:12:35,956 the person with PCP... 254 00:12:35,989 --> 00:12:38,058 [ Screaming ] 255 00:12:38,091 --> 00:12:40,027 ...basically, the sensory input 256 00:12:40,060 --> 00:12:42,162 that went out became something else, 257 00:12:42,195 --> 00:12:44,064 and they became very agitated. 258 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,070 Morris: Dr. Smith walked me to the Panhandle to show me 259 00:12:50,103 --> 00:12:55,108 where he first encountered a PCP intoxication. 260 00:12:55,142 --> 00:12:56,910 It was there. 261 00:12:56,944 --> 00:12:58,245 That's where the concert was. 262 00:12:58,278 --> 00:13:01,014 Right there. Hippies dancing. 263 00:13:01,048 --> 00:13:06,153 And that tree is where I saw my first bad PCP trip. 264 00:13:06,186 --> 00:13:08,455 She does a face-plant in the dirt. 265 00:13:08,488 --> 00:13:11,158 -Right here? -Right there. 266 00:13:11,191 --> 00:13:12,860 Falling facedown in the dirt 267 00:13:12,893 --> 00:13:14,394 is not something you're supposed to do. 268 00:13:14,427 --> 00:13:18,331 And I said this is a different type of drug reaction. 269 00:13:18,365 --> 00:13:22,836 I got a sample of the urine, had it tested. 270 00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:27,474 And that's when it came back as PCP. 271 00:13:27,507 --> 00:13:32,980 I hallucinate. I see things. 272 00:13:33,013 --> 00:13:37,617 I like it. 273 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,586 I didn't think a dissociative anesthetic 274 00:13:39,619 --> 00:13:42,122 would be the drug that this population would want. 275 00:13:42,155 --> 00:13:46,326 But the problem is, you give a drug a name, the peace pill. 276 00:13:46,359 --> 00:13:48,161 Or if you're a biker, the hog. 277 00:13:48,195 --> 00:13:50,197 And they respond to the pill 278 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:51,865 and the culture and the name 279 00:13:51,899 --> 00:13:54,501 rather than any understanding of the pharmacology of it. 280 00:13:54,534 --> 00:13:58,071 Morris: Since the clinical use of PCP was discontinued, 281 00:13:58,105 --> 00:14:00,507 it's appeared on the street in many forms. 282 00:14:00,540 --> 00:14:03,010 First, there were capsules and tablets, 283 00:14:03,043 --> 00:14:05,078 often called peace pills. 284 00:14:05,112 --> 00:14:08,315 Later, there is crystalline PCP hydrochloride, 285 00:14:08,348 --> 00:14:10,984 referred to as angel dust. 286 00:14:11,018 --> 00:14:13,987 And most recently, liquid solutions of PCP freebase 287 00:14:14,021 --> 00:14:16,223 that are used for dipping cigarettes, 288 00:14:16,256 --> 00:14:20,493 often called sherm stick or wet, 289 00:14:20,527 --> 00:14:23,997 which brings me to Kensington in East Philadelphia 290 00:14:24,031 --> 00:14:27,100 to meet Craig and Kelly. 291 00:14:27,134 --> 00:14:29,569 This is where I get high, you know, hang out. 292 00:14:29,602 --> 00:14:32,539 -You want to smoke by people? -No, there's no one over here. 293 00:14:32,572 --> 00:14:34,674 I usually sit over here by the rocks. 294 00:14:34,707 --> 00:14:37,010 Over here by this, uh, gate. 295 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,681 The best way to smoke it is, like, 296 00:14:41,714 --> 00:14:43,383 right after they just dipped. Like, they just dipped. 297 00:14:43,416 --> 00:14:45,185 -Yeah, it's still wet, though. -It's still wet, though. 298 00:14:45,218 --> 00:14:46,619 Morris: Can't they just bust into flames, though, that way? 299 00:14:46,653 --> 00:14:48,121 -If you light it with a lighter. -Yeah. 300 00:14:48,155 --> 00:14:49,456 You have to light it off another cigarette. 301 00:14:49,489 --> 00:14:50,958 If she just -- like, if I just took this lighter 302 00:14:50,991 --> 00:14:52,192 and just put that lighter to it, it's gonna... 303 00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:53,393 It would, like, burst into flames. 304 00:14:53,426 --> 00:14:55,462 Like, it's gonna, like, poof up. 305 00:14:55,495 --> 00:14:57,197 Tell me about when you first started smoking it. 306 00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:59,499 I'm curious about it. -I can't even really tell you 307 00:14:59,532 --> 00:15:01,401 how I first -- first started smoking it. 308 00:15:01,434 --> 00:15:02,970 It just, like -- it just happened. 309 00:15:03,003 --> 00:15:04,271 Like, I smoked a dipper one day, 310 00:15:04,304 --> 00:15:05,438 and it was like, "Oh, shit." 311 00:15:05,472 --> 00:15:07,040 Like, "Well, damn." 312 00:15:07,074 --> 00:15:09,176 That shit will take you to a whole 'nother place. 313 00:15:09,209 --> 00:15:10,577 We was just getting high. I'm talking... 314 00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:12,612 We were smoking, like, ounces of this shit in a week. 315 00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:14,381 Like, we was just getting high. 316 00:15:14,414 --> 00:15:18,318 Like, just dip, smoke, dip, smoke, dip, smoke. 317 00:15:18,351 --> 00:15:20,053 We weren't even smoking the whole damn thing. 318 00:15:20,087 --> 00:15:21,588 It's half gone, we throwing it. 319 00:15:21,621 --> 00:15:23,356 Dipping another one. We was just getting high. 320 00:15:23,390 --> 00:15:24,992 Like, "Oh, my God. 321 00:15:25,025 --> 00:15:26,593 Damn, like, we got to stop smoking, bro." 322 00:15:26,626 --> 00:15:29,429 Like...and that shit lasted for all of 2 hours, 323 00:15:29,462 --> 00:15:30,730 and we went and got some more of that shit. 324 00:15:30,763 --> 00:15:32,265 Like... It was just what we did. 325 00:15:32,299 --> 00:15:34,501 It was a fun thing. We -- we got money. 326 00:15:34,534 --> 00:15:35,702 We was just gonna smoke and get high. 327 00:15:35,735 --> 00:15:37,470 Like... -What is the benefit 328 00:15:37,504 --> 00:15:39,039 that you feel when you smoke 329 00:15:39,072 --> 00:15:41,041 that makes you want to do it every day? 330 00:15:41,074 --> 00:15:42,542 Um... 331 00:15:45,145 --> 00:15:46,479 I don't know. 332 00:15:46,513 --> 00:15:48,448 She dipping off. 333 00:15:48,481 --> 00:15:51,251 It'll do that to you, though. It'll get you quiet. 334 00:15:51,284 --> 00:15:52,585 She about to get spacey. 335 00:15:52,619 --> 00:15:54,621 She in the matrix right now. 336 00:15:59,059 --> 00:16:01,094 -Are you gone? -Yes. 337 00:16:01,128 --> 00:16:02,329 Is it good to be gone? 338 00:16:02,362 --> 00:16:04,397 Yes. 339 00:16:04,431 --> 00:16:06,166 When do you think you'll be back? 340 00:16:06,199 --> 00:16:09,569 I don't know. 341 00:16:09,602 --> 00:16:11,271 Gone. 342 00:16:11,304 --> 00:16:13,173 Wallach: At this high dose, 343 00:16:13,206 --> 00:16:16,343 the person becomes completely catatonic and anesthetized. 344 00:16:16,376 --> 00:16:19,179 It's only as the drug begins to be metabolized 345 00:16:19,212 --> 00:16:22,115 and broken down that the levels allow them to wake up, 346 00:16:22,149 --> 00:16:23,450 and then they're still high enough 347 00:16:23,483 --> 00:16:26,419 to be in this dissociated state. 348 00:16:26,453 --> 00:16:27,754 -Oh. -You good? 349 00:16:27,787 --> 00:16:29,756 -Yeah. -Watch my arm. 350 00:16:33,093 --> 00:16:35,028 Kensington is, like, our black market for drugs. 351 00:16:35,062 --> 00:16:36,696 It's just, you need a drug, you go to Kensington. 352 00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:38,365 You gonna find that shit. 353 00:16:38,398 --> 00:16:40,667 -Where does it come from? -The wet? 354 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,335 -Yeah. -What you mean? 355 00:16:42,369 --> 00:16:44,137 Like, personally? Like, where? 356 00:16:44,171 --> 00:16:45,405 Like, who bringing this shit in? I wouldn't be able to tell you. 357 00:16:45,438 --> 00:16:47,807 -Who makes it? -Who the fuck knows? 358 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,809 It got to be somebody -- It can't be nobody in here 359 00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:51,811 'cause you got to be a chemist 360 00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:54,081 to make that shit up. 361 00:16:54,114 --> 00:16:56,483 You don't need glassware. You can do it in buckets. 362 00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:58,285 But what you do need are chemicals 363 00:16:58,318 --> 00:17:00,720 that are not just bought at the hardware store. 364 00:17:00,753 --> 00:17:04,291 Morris: The synthesis of PCP can be a formidable challenge 365 00:17:04,324 --> 00:17:05,725 for clandestine chemists. 366 00:17:05,758 --> 00:17:09,462 Wallach: Piperidene, magnesium, cyclohexanone. 367 00:17:09,496 --> 00:17:12,199 Morris: All the chemicals used to manufacture PCP 368 00:17:12,232 --> 00:17:13,566 have been watched by law enforcement 369 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,636 for decades, which raises the question -- 370 00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:21,308 "Who's making PCP, and where does it come from?" 371 00:17:21,341 --> 00:17:23,543 All the PCP in the country can be linked 372 00:17:23,576 --> 00:17:25,778 directly back to southern California. 373 00:17:25,812 --> 00:17:27,314 They're cooking multiple hundred gallons 374 00:17:27,347 --> 00:17:28,781 of PCP at a time, 375 00:17:28,815 --> 00:17:30,350 and it gets shipped by planes, 376 00:17:30,383 --> 00:17:33,686 trains and automobiles every single day out of L.A. 377 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,323 In Los Angeles, I met with Frank Lyga, 378 00:17:36,356 --> 00:17:39,259 a narcotics detective who dedicated 16 years 379 00:17:39,292 --> 00:17:42,762 to hunting down and arresting PCP manufacturers. 380 00:17:42,795 --> 00:17:44,497 PCP, what I find so fascinating, 381 00:17:44,531 --> 00:17:46,533 is that it's real organic synthesis. 382 00:17:46,566 --> 00:17:48,435 You're not working with things that you bought at CVS. 383 00:17:48,468 --> 00:17:49,869 You're working with real chemicals. 384 00:17:49,902 --> 00:17:51,338 Well, that's -- that's you as a -- 385 00:17:51,371 --> 00:17:53,306 as a chemistry background. 386 00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:55,808 The average person that manufactures PCP 387 00:17:55,842 --> 00:17:57,344 is third and fourth generation 388 00:17:57,377 --> 00:17:59,612 down the line, and they got a recipe. 389 00:17:59,646 --> 00:18:03,150 It's amazing how they come up with some of this stuff. 390 00:18:03,183 --> 00:18:04,751 We then went inside to look at photos 391 00:18:04,784 --> 00:18:08,621 from his biggest bust. 392 00:18:08,655 --> 00:18:12,159 This was and is and probably will continue to be 393 00:18:12,192 --> 00:18:14,494 the largest PCP seizure in history. 394 00:18:14,527 --> 00:18:16,496 This guy's lab site was 395 00:18:16,529 --> 00:18:19,399 in a small village about an hour and a half 396 00:18:19,432 --> 00:18:21,401 northeast of Las Vegas, up in the mountains. 397 00:18:21,434 --> 00:18:24,304 His full job every day was to make PCP. 398 00:18:24,337 --> 00:18:25,605 This was packaged for sale. 399 00:18:25,638 --> 00:18:27,174 This was actually how we got the guy. 400 00:18:27,207 --> 00:18:29,309 So he was hydrogenating the pyridine 401 00:18:29,342 --> 00:18:30,810 in the same operation? -Yeah. Yeah. 402 00:18:30,843 --> 00:18:32,445 That seems pretty sophisticated. 403 00:18:32,479 --> 00:18:34,414 He bought everything in bulk 404 00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:36,449 because this was his full-time job. 405 00:18:36,483 --> 00:18:37,717 We seized 100 -- 406 00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:39,652 roughly 130 gallons of finished PCP 407 00:18:39,686 --> 00:18:41,488 and enough chemicals to make about 408 00:18:41,521 --> 00:18:44,824 1,500 gallons of finished PCP. 409 00:18:44,857 --> 00:18:48,628 The gangs control PCP, and the old gang wars 410 00:18:48,661 --> 00:18:50,397 from the '80s, the Bloods and the Crips, 411 00:18:50,430 --> 00:18:52,432 the blue and the red, 412 00:18:52,465 --> 00:18:54,867 doesn't apply to this level of criminal. 413 00:18:54,901 --> 00:18:56,669 You have a source of piperidine, 414 00:18:56,703 --> 00:18:58,838 I have a source for PMB, we're friends. 415 00:18:58,871 --> 00:19:01,241 You're a Crip. I'm a Blood. 416 00:19:01,274 --> 00:19:04,644 It's green now. We're making money. 417 00:19:04,677 --> 00:19:08,515 A gallon of PCP in L.A. goes for $12,000 to $17,000. 418 00:19:08,548 --> 00:19:10,417 That same gallon in New York, 419 00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:11,818 Philadelphia, Maryland, 420 00:19:11,851 --> 00:19:14,521 goes for $35,000 to $65,000. 421 00:19:14,554 --> 00:19:16,289 Do you ever feel bad for these people, 422 00:19:16,323 --> 00:19:19,826 or think that maybe they -- they're not bad people? 423 00:19:19,859 --> 00:19:21,794 No. Not at all. 424 00:19:21,828 --> 00:19:22,962 You don't have to be a bad person 425 00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:24,431 to do criminal activities. 426 00:19:24,464 --> 00:19:26,533 We follow the rules and the laws. 427 00:19:26,566 --> 00:19:28,568 Nothing personal. I catch ya, I catch ya. 428 00:19:28,601 --> 00:19:30,670 If I don't catch ya, I don't catch ya. 429 00:19:30,703 --> 00:19:32,972 Why do people use it? 430 00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:34,641 I have no idea. 431 00:19:34,674 --> 00:19:36,709 I don't drink, and I don't smoke. 432 00:19:36,743 --> 00:19:38,811 Never have. Never did drugs 'cause, 433 00:19:38,845 --> 00:19:40,447 my whole life, I wanted to be a cop. 434 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,250 I wanted to be a dope cop. But that's me. 435 00:19:43,283 --> 00:19:44,484 Yeah. 436 00:19:44,517 --> 00:19:47,320 I can't talk about anybody else. 437 00:19:47,354 --> 00:19:49,589 At some point, someone had to figure out 438 00:19:49,622 --> 00:19:51,258 this bucket method. 439 00:19:51,291 --> 00:19:53,360 They had to go to the original articles written 440 00:19:53,393 --> 00:19:57,230 by the chemist who discovered PCP, Vic Maddox, 441 00:19:57,264 --> 00:19:59,732 and they had to adapt his synthetic route 442 00:19:59,766 --> 00:20:02,369 for clandestine manufacture. -Right. 443 00:20:02,402 --> 00:20:05,472 So I'm curious about who that was. 444 00:20:05,505 --> 00:20:07,374 There's one family in South L.A. 445 00:20:07,407 --> 00:20:09,476 that basically started the PCP epidemic 446 00:20:09,509 --> 00:20:11,878 in the '70s. 447 00:20:11,911 --> 00:20:15,482 And they are like the godfathers of PCP 448 00:20:15,515 --> 00:20:16,716 in South L.A. 449 00:20:16,749 --> 00:20:18,351 I'm very curious about this family. 450 00:20:18,385 --> 00:20:19,719 I'm not gonna mention the names at all. 451 00:20:19,752 --> 00:20:20,987 They're not the sorts of people 452 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:22,355 that would want to talk to us on camera. 453 00:20:22,389 --> 00:20:23,623 Oh, no. They wouldn't talk to you. 454 00:20:23,656 --> 00:20:24,891 That's why I'm not gonna give you a name. 455 00:20:24,924 --> 00:20:26,793 Hansel and Gretel. 456 00:20:26,826 --> 00:20:28,661 Morris: Frank's tantalizing tales 457 00:20:28,695 --> 00:20:30,963 of clandestine synthesis made it clear 458 00:20:30,997 --> 00:20:33,533 that I had to hear about the process firsthand 459 00:20:33,566 --> 00:20:35,368 from a professional cook, 460 00:20:35,402 --> 00:20:40,039 with the hope that I could obtain their secret recipe. 461 00:20:47,547 --> 00:20:50,450 You have reached the voice mailbox of... 462 00:20:52,018 --> 00:20:54,721 Yeah, we've had a lot of difficulty finding someone 463 00:20:54,754 --> 00:20:57,557 who would be willing to synthesize PCP on camera, 464 00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:59,926 which isn't entirely surprising. 465 00:20:59,959 --> 00:21:02,061 -Hello? -Hey, what's going on? 466 00:21:02,094 --> 00:21:04,030 This is Hamilton. -Oh, how you doing? 467 00:21:04,063 --> 00:21:05,632 Good. How are you? 468 00:21:05,665 --> 00:21:07,634 But this guy that we met with the other night, 469 00:21:07,667 --> 00:21:10,403 he seemed like a perfect person to speak with. 470 00:21:10,437 --> 00:21:13,673 Uh, he's only been out of prison for about 100 days, 471 00:21:13,706 --> 00:21:16,409 and he seems conflicted about whether or not 472 00:21:16,443 --> 00:21:18,345 he wants to have anything to do with us. 473 00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:27,454 This clandestine PCP cook, who I'll call Flaco, 474 00:21:27,487 --> 00:21:32,091 was caught manufacturing PCP and spent 28 years in prison. 475 00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:34,727 So who do you think was the first person 476 00:21:34,761 --> 00:21:38,731 that brought this information into South Central L.A., 477 00:21:38,765 --> 00:21:42,034 the first person to give the recipe to people 478 00:21:42,068 --> 00:21:44,871 so that they could make it in underground labs? 479 00:22:19,906 --> 00:22:21,508 Would you say that it's fun, 480 00:22:21,541 --> 00:22:22,642 something that you enjoy doing, 481 00:22:22,675 --> 00:22:24,110 something that, you know, 482 00:22:24,143 --> 00:22:25,645 while you're doing it, it was exciting? 483 00:22:25,678 --> 00:22:28,080 It was... 484 00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:45,932 Have young people come up to you 485 00:22:45,965 --> 00:22:48,801 and asked you about a recipe 486 00:22:48,835 --> 00:22:51,538 or asked you to teach them what you know? 487 00:22:59,479 --> 00:23:01,180 Do you keep it secret because you don't want 488 00:23:01,213 --> 00:23:03,115 other people competing with you 489 00:23:03,149 --> 00:23:05,452 or you don't want them getting hurt? 490 00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:11,824 Morris: But when the conversation 491 00:23:11,858 --> 00:23:13,760 turned to phenylmagnesium bromide, 492 00:23:13,793 --> 00:23:15,828 he couldn't help but talk shop, 493 00:23:15,862 --> 00:23:18,665 and I couldn't help but listen. 494 00:23:18,698 --> 00:23:19,966 So 400 grams. 495 00:23:19,999 --> 00:23:22,101 Sorry, say that... It was 400 grams? 496 00:23:22,134 --> 00:23:23,703 4,000. 497 00:23:23,736 --> 00:23:26,806 Oh, so 4,000 grams. 498 00:23:31,711 --> 00:23:33,946 In order to understand a street drug, 499 00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:35,515 it's vital to understand 500 00:23:35,548 --> 00:23:38,017 the technique of a street chemist. 501 00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:40,553 So I took Flaco's recipe to the lab 502 00:23:40,587 --> 00:23:41,988 with a small modification 503 00:23:42,021 --> 00:23:45,091 that ensured the final product would be legal. 504 00:23:45,124 --> 00:23:46,559 The idea behind this experiment 505 00:23:46,593 --> 00:23:48,561 is to mimic the so-called bucket method. 506 00:23:48,595 --> 00:23:51,698 Instead of 32-gallon Rubbermaid trash cans, 507 00:23:51,731 --> 00:23:54,100 we're going to use Pyrex beakers 508 00:23:54,133 --> 00:23:57,136 under controlled laboratory conditions. 509 00:23:57,169 --> 00:23:59,171 In under 30 seconds, 510 00:23:59,205 --> 00:24:01,608 I'm going to tell you exactly how to manufacture 511 00:24:01,641 --> 00:24:03,476 PCP, or, in this case, 512 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:07,880 the morpholine derivative of PCP, PCMO. 513 00:24:07,914 --> 00:24:09,215 Sodium bisulfite is added 514 00:24:09,248 --> 00:24:10,883 to an aqueous cyclohexanone solution, 515 00:24:10,917 --> 00:24:12,184 precipitating an adduct 516 00:24:12,218 --> 00:24:13,753 that's subject to nucleophyllic attack 517 00:24:13,786 --> 00:24:15,522 from lone pair electrons on the morpholine amine, 518 00:24:15,555 --> 00:24:17,056 forming a solution in which the hemi-aminol 519 00:24:17,089 --> 00:24:18,991 and aminium ion exist in equilibrium. 520 00:24:19,025 --> 00:24:20,593 The aminium carbon 521 00:24:20,627 --> 00:24:22,028 undergoes nuceophyllic attack from cyanide. 522 00:24:22,061 --> 00:24:23,863 You can smell the cyanide in the air right now. 523 00:24:23,896 --> 00:24:25,197 Just the quantity that we're using 524 00:24:25,231 --> 00:24:26,265 now is enough to kill several people. 525 00:24:26,298 --> 00:24:27,600 Wallach: Oh, many people. Yeah. 526 00:24:27,634 --> 00:24:29,669 -Everyone here. -Yes. 527 00:24:29,702 --> 00:24:30,870 Morris: This is fun. 528 00:24:30,903 --> 00:24:32,572 Producing an alpha-amino nitrile 529 00:24:32,605 --> 00:24:34,707 which is isolated from the aqueous reaction mixture 530 00:24:34,741 --> 00:24:37,143 and re-dissolved in ether for a reaction. 531 00:24:37,176 --> 00:24:38,845 In solution, the alpha-amino nitrile 532 00:24:38,878 --> 00:24:40,547 is in equilibrium with an aminium ion, 533 00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:41,948 which undergoes nucleophyllic attack 534 00:24:41,981 --> 00:24:43,716 from phenyl-magnesium bromide, 535 00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:47,687 driving the reaction toward the formation of PCMO. 536 00:24:49,689 --> 00:24:51,223 This was what would be sold, 537 00:24:51,257 --> 00:24:54,293 and this is what we could dip a cigarette into, um, 538 00:24:54,326 --> 00:24:56,763 and would be the final product 539 00:24:56,796 --> 00:24:59,131 that could be sold on the street level. 540 00:25:00,867 --> 00:25:03,570 Morris: Flaco's method works for clandestine manufacture 541 00:25:03,603 --> 00:25:05,738 of PCP, but it results 542 00:25:05,772 --> 00:25:08,274 in the formation of cyanogenic impurities 543 00:25:08,307 --> 00:25:11,944 and a product that's more toxic for the end user. 544 00:25:14,781 --> 00:25:18,084 After our interview, Flaco resumed manufacturing, 545 00:25:18,117 --> 00:25:20,186 but tragically died 10 months later 546 00:25:20,219 --> 00:25:22,689 after his lab caught on fire. 547 00:25:33,332 --> 00:25:35,935 Morris: Strolling through a Santa Monica playground, 548 00:25:35,968 --> 00:25:38,971 I ran into a quartet of PCP enthusiasts 549 00:25:39,005 --> 00:25:40,940 sharing an afternoon smoke 550 00:25:40,973 --> 00:25:43,209 and decided to ask them a question 551 00:25:43,242 --> 00:25:45,745 that had been on my mind. 552 00:25:45,778 --> 00:25:49,882 Have you ever done anything crazy or regrettable on PCP? 553 00:25:49,916 --> 00:25:52,051 Crazy, but not regrettable. 554 00:25:52,084 --> 00:25:54,353 But I seen some people who do some humil-- 555 00:25:54,386 --> 00:25:56,956 like, humiliating things, take their clothes off, 556 00:25:56,989 --> 00:25:59,091 you know, stripping down. 557 00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:02,228 As people dip, sometimes it's too much of a downer. 558 00:26:02,261 --> 00:26:04,597 Sometimes it hits you. 559 00:26:04,631 --> 00:26:06,666 And sometimes it picks people up, 560 00:26:06,699 --> 00:26:08,635 and they go crazy, you know? 561 00:26:08,668 --> 00:26:11,270 People's loved ones got to call the police on 'em. 562 00:26:11,303 --> 00:26:13,740 Do you all know about Big Lurch? 563 00:26:13,773 --> 00:26:15,074 What? 564 00:26:15,107 --> 00:26:18,377 This guy, Big Lurch, who ate one of his friends? 565 00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:21,614 He ate him? He literally cut him up and ate him? 566 00:26:21,648 --> 00:26:23,950 Yeah. 567 00:26:23,983 --> 00:26:26,018 Morris: Big Lurch is a Texas rapper 568 00:26:26,052 --> 00:26:30,322 who ate his friend Tynisha's lungs in 2002. 569 00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:32,024 He described his state of mind 570 00:26:32,058 --> 00:26:35,261 in an interview from prison with Geraldo Rivera. 571 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,677 Rivera: Do you know that, uh, 572 00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:52,879 you were actually chewing on her flesh, 573 00:26:52,912 --> 00:26:54,781 allegedly, when the cops came? 574 00:27:04,957 --> 00:27:07,827 Yeah, we never heard of no Big Lurch, you know? 575 00:27:07,860 --> 00:27:10,296 Why? What's up? From PCP, he ate somebody? 576 00:27:10,329 --> 00:27:12,098 Yeah. Yeah, he was a big PCP... 577 00:27:12,131 --> 00:27:15,134 Man, he was a sick puppy from -- form the get-go, then, you know? 578 00:27:15,167 --> 00:27:16,836 The craziest thing is to get naked 579 00:27:16,869 --> 00:27:17,904 and want to fight with the police. 580 00:27:17,937 --> 00:27:19,739 That's it. 581 00:27:19,772 --> 00:27:21,140 You know, police shoot somebody, kill somebody or whatever, 582 00:27:21,173 --> 00:27:23,876 but not no shit like that. I want to eat. 583 00:27:23,910 --> 00:27:26,078 You know, too much zombie movies, man. 584 00:27:26,112 --> 00:27:28,447 You see what I mean? 585 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,183 The radio call came out. A tall woman dressed in a -- 586 00:27:31,217 --> 00:27:33,319 in a red dress walking in traffic. 587 00:27:33,352 --> 00:27:35,021 The radio car arrived, 588 00:27:35,054 --> 00:27:37,456 and he was naked, covered in blood. 589 00:27:37,489 --> 00:27:39,058 He had her heart under his arm. 590 00:27:39,091 --> 00:27:40,727 -He had her heart under his arm? -You know that? 591 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:41,961 I did not know that. 592 00:27:41,994 --> 00:27:43,763 His hear-- her heart was in his armpit. 593 00:27:43,796 --> 00:27:47,233 Wow. 594 00:27:47,266 --> 00:27:49,268 At least that's what I was told. 595 00:27:49,301 --> 00:27:51,971 Wow. I've been pen pals with him for years. 596 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,476 -Really? -Yeah. 597 00:27:57,509 --> 00:28:00,112 That case is an anomaly. 598 00:28:00,146 --> 00:28:03,115 It's few and far between. 599 00:28:03,149 --> 00:28:07,319 Very rarely do we see anything of that nature. 600 00:28:07,353 --> 00:28:10,322 Morris: The brutality of the Big Lurch case 601 00:28:10,356 --> 00:28:12,458 overshadows the fact that the vast majority 602 00:28:12,491 --> 00:28:15,327 of PCP users are non-violent. 603 00:28:15,361 --> 00:28:18,164 But a powerful dissociative anesthetic 604 00:28:18,197 --> 00:28:23,035 can combine dangerously with certain personality types. 605 00:28:23,069 --> 00:28:24,370 Craig: You got a motherfucker that's, like... 606 00:28:24,403 --> 00:28:25,872 He thinking about killing somebody, 607 00:28:25,905 --> 00:28:27,006 or he think about robbing somebody, 608 00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:28,107 or anything he thinking about doing, 609 00:28:28,140 --> 00:28:29,742 he smoke a dipper or two, 610 00:28:29,776 --> 00:28:31,443 you know, really putting his mind 611 00:28:31,477 --> 00:28:33,079 on that shit, he gonna go do that shit. 612 00:28:33,112 --> 00:28:35,414 And then you fucking might not even remember it 613 00:28:35,447 --> 00:28:36,916 'cause, like, you -- you black out. 614 00:28:36,949 --> 00:28:38,250 Like, a lot of the times, you don't even, 615 00:28:38,284 --> 00:28:39,518 like, be realizing what you're doing 616 00:28:39,551 --> 00:28:41,253 'cause it'd have you acting off raw emotion. 617 00:28:41,287 --> 00:28:43,255 Like, when you hear somebody, they committed suicide, 618 00:28:43,289 --> 00:28:44,924 it wasn't 'cause PCP made 'em do it. 619 00:28:44,957 --> 00:28:47,126 They was already going through some shit in their head. 620 00:28:47,159 --> 00:28:48,861 That's how that shit happens. 621 00:28:48,895 --> 00:28:50,930 It's like, that little voice that tells you not to do shit? 622 00:28:50,963 --> 00:28:53,365 It goes away. 623 00:28:55,501 --> 00:28:59,405 With regards to reports of PCP causing violence, 624 00:28:59,438 --> 00:29:01,440 it has not been found to be true. 625 00:29:01,473 --> 00:29:03,109 Scientific studies that were done 626 00:29:03,142 --> 00:29:05,277 that looked at this issue closer found 627 00:29:05,311 --> 00:29:07,413 that there wasn't a major association 628 00:29:07,446 --> 00:29:09,816 between PCP use and violence. 629 00:29:09,849 --> 00:29:11,483 But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. 630 00:29:11,517 --> 00:29:12,952 And as with any drug, 631 00:29:12,985 --> 00:29:15,154 some people have violent responses. 632 00:29:15,187 --> 00:29:18,825 You know, the individual taking it is a huge factor. 633 00:29:18,858 --> 00:29:20,159 And few individuals have 634 00:29:20,192 --> 00:29:23,863 a more fascinating story than Christ Bearer. 635 00:29:29,268 --> 00:29:31,303 [ Hip hop music plays ] 636 00:29:35,341 --> 00:29:37,576 Christ Bearer is a rapper affiliated 637 00:29:37,609 --> 00:29:40,579 with the legendary Wu Tang Clan. 638 00:29:40,612 --> 00:29:45,017 But in 2014, he made a private decision 639 00:29:45,051 --> 00:29:48,320 that thrust him into the public eye. 640 00:29:50,857 --> 00:29:53,092 Bearer: My first PCP experience. 641 00:29:53,125 --> 00:29:56,328 And I went through the streets, and I was like, "Yo. 642 00:29:56,362 --> 00:30:00,900 I see what the fuck that people see," 643 00:30:00,933 --> 00:30:02,468 you know what I mean? 644 00:30:02,501 --> 00:30:04,436 PCP's something like an alternate reality. 645 00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:06,072 You can see something. It's like knowledge. 646 00:30:06,105 --> 00:30:07,406 You can see something, and once you see that, 647 00:30:07,439 --> 00:30:09,041 you can't never go back. 648 00:30:09,075 --> 00:30:11,210 It's, like, you could be exposed to too much truth, 649 00:30:11,243 --> 00:30:13,312 and it can make you nutty, you know what I'm saying? 650 00:30:13,345 --> 00:30:16,448 -Yeah. -I tried, uh, meth 651 00:30:16,482 --> 00:30:18,050 and a couple other drugs, 652 00:30:18,084 --> 00:30:21,120 but PCP was something that it was just -- 653 00:30:21,153 --> 00:30:23,255 just clarity. 654 00:30:23,289 --> 00:30:26,192 Could you tell me the story of that night? 655 00:30:26,225 --> 00:30:30,196 Um, to a degree. To a degree. 656 00:30:30,229 --> 00:30:31,630 So that night, when I -- 657 00:30:31,663 --> 00:30:34,566 I had some PCP, and I was definitely, 658 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,104 um, I was watching cartoons. 659 00:30:38,137 --> 00:30:41,373 And to me, for some reason, 660 00:30:41,407 --> 00:30:44,610 life turned into a cartoon. 661 00:30:44,643 --> 00:30:48,580 So it was kind of like, "Well, this is..." 662 00:30:48,614 --> 00:30:51,383 And I had three, um, baby mothers, and they all... 663 00:30:51,417 --> 00:30:52,985 uh, had restraining orders on me 664 00:30:53,019 --> 00:30:54,120 so I couldn't see any of my kids. 665 00:30:54,153 --> 00:30:55,587 But I figured, "Man, 666 00:30:55,621 --> 00:30:57,924 I keep on having these babies by these girls." 667 00:30:57,957 --> 00:30:59,525 I was thinking they just, kind of groupies 668 00:30:59,558 --> 00:31:01,327 and then once they have the baby by me, 669 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,594 I'm trapped, and they say, 670 00:31:02,628 --> 00:31:04,263 "Hey, I'm gonna need this amount of money 671 00:31:04,296 --> 00:31:05,932 for you to be in their life." 672 00:31:05,965 --> 00:31:08,600 It started being, like, society that was just -- 673 00:31:08,634 --> 00:31:12,504 just dragging me down into a -- a vortex. 674 00:31:12,538 --> 00:31:14,340 I could not stop. Women say, 675 00:31:14,373 --> 00:31:16,075 "Men think with their little head too much. 676 00:31:16,108 --> 00:31:17,509 They always think with their little heads." 677 00:31:17,543 --> 00:31:21,147 So I said, "You know what? 678 00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:23,682 I got something for these bitches. 679 00:31:23,715 --> 00:31:25,351 I'm gonna cut off my little head 680 00:31:25,384 --> 00:31:27,954 and be forced to only think with my big head." 681 00:31:27,987 --> 00:31:31,357 And that was clear as day to me, and I acted upon it. 682 00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:33,592 I went to the kitchen with a kitchen knife, 683 00:31:33,625 --> 00:31:36,695 and I chopped it off. 684 00:31:36,728 --> 00:31:39,465 I didn't think, "I'm gonna be famous from this." 685 00:31:39,498 --> 00:31:42,434 It was just a personal thing in my life I felt I needed, 686 00:31:42,468 --> 00:31:44,336 and it should make a difference. 687 00:31:44,370 --> 00:31:46,238 And it was kind of like, "I'm dying anyway, man." 688 00:31:46,272 --> 00:31:47,439 Let me say my last sets of missing words, 689 00:31:47,473 --> 00:31:49,175 what's going on. 690 00:31:49,208 --> 00:31:51,277 And I said a couple things to everybody in the room. 691 00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:53,145 And I was like, "Yeah, fuck it." 692 00:31:53,179 --> 00:31:56,315 I jumped off the balcony and shit, you know what I mean? 693 00:31:56,348 --> 00:31:58,450 Two-story balcony. So I hit the ground. 694 00:31:58,484 --> 00:32:01,587 I kind of con-- I was unconscious for a second, 695 00:32:01,620 --> 00:32:03,189 but then I realized, "Yo, I'm not dead." 696 00:32:03,222 --> 00:32:05,424 I was, like, "Yo, fuck this shit. 697 00:32:05,457 --> 00:32:07,093 Yo, guess what? 698 00:32:07,126 --> 00:32:08,460 I'm gonna fucking... 699 00:32:08,494 --> 00:32:11,964 Yo, nobody's got shit on me. Watch this shit. 700 00:32:11,998 --> 00:32:13,966 I'm finna to turn the world upside down, 701 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,667 and people are gonna really fucking understand 702 00:32:15,701 --> 00:32:18,971 who God is 'cause I promise you, 703 00:32:19,005 --> 00:32:21,073 he is I, and I is him." 704 00:32:21,107 --> 00:32:22,374 Next thing you know, I'm in the morning. 705 00:32:22,408 --> 00:32:25,177 It was all over my bedroom, like, "Yo. 706 00:32:25,211 --> 00:32:26,745 What the fuck's going on?" You know? 707 00:32:26,778 --> 00:32:28,480 So people can say, "Oh, that nigga did that. 708 00:32:28,514 --> 00:32:30,349 He chopped off his shit. What a idiot." 709 00:32:30,382 --> 00:32:32,484 It -- it actually was a genius plan, 710 00:32:32,518 --> 00:32:34,286 I feel, you know? 711 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,624 I really loved my 9 1/2 inches that I had. 712 00:32:38,657 --> 00:32:41,393 At the same token, uh, manhood is not determined 713 00:32:41,427 --> 00:32:43,195 by what's between your legs, 714 00:32:43,229 --> 00:32:44,696 and that's my mission to show. 715 00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:47,333 Sentient thinking being's what makes you a man. 716 00:32:47,366 --> 00:32:48,634 We don't live in a society. 717 00:32:48,667 --> 00:32:51,203 We live in a sex-ciety. You feel me? 718 00:32:51,237 --> 00:32:52,571 I do. Absolutely. 719 00:32:52,604 --> 00:32:54,140 No, I understand completely what you're saying. 720 00:32:54,173 --> 00:32:55,541 It makes a lot of sense. I think it's, like, 721 00:32:55,574 --> 00:32:57,143 the sort of thing where people hear the story, 722 00:32:57,176 --> 00:33:00,379 and it's just hard for them to mentally grasp. 723 00:33:00,412 --> 00:33:03,782 Would you feel comfortable showing us any of the -- 724 00:33:03,815 --> 00:33:05,717 the -- the wound or anything like that? 725 00:33:05,751 --> 00:33:07,053 Is that something you want to show, 726 00:33:07,086 --> 00:33:08,654 or is that a more private thing? 727 00:33:08,687 --> 00:33:11,357 Um, yeah. Of course. 728 00:33:11,390 --> 00:33:13,625 I'd be... Shit, why not? 729 00:33:17,663 --> 00:33:19,765 Fuck no. Stop playing, man. 730 00:33:19,798 --> 00:33:21,267 -Okay. -Fucking show you this for? 731 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:22,534 A bunch of dudes in here. 732 00:33:22,568 --> 00:33:24,236 Why'd I do such a thing? 733 00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:25,704 Why'd I do such a thing, man? 734 00:33:25,737 --> 00:33:27,506 But, yo, if you guys can guarantee me 735 00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:29,508 a million dollar kickoff, 736 00:33:29,541 --> 00:33:31,177 I'll -- I'll show you a wound right now. 737 00:33:32,578 --> 00:33:34,313 I.O.U.? Okay. If I could -- 738 00:33:34,346 --> 00:33:36,448 if I could be true to that, 739 00:33:36,482 --> 00:33:39,451 I would show you the fucking wound. 740 00:33:39,485 --> 00:33:41,420 Every problem, there's a solution. 741 00:33:41,453 --> 00:33:43,655 Of every positive, there's a negative, you know? 742 00:33:43,689 --> 00:33:46,692 So I definitely always know that, 743 00:33:46,725 --> 00:33:50,162 even if something negative, there's a 2% positivity. 744 00:33:50,196 --> 00:33:52,664 If you just focus on that 2% positivity, 745 00:33:52,698 --> 00:33:54,433 you gonna grow it, you know? 746 00:33:54,466 --> 00:33:56,835 Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. 747 00:34:03,742 --> 00:34:07,379 Morris: PCP is a drug popularly associated with violence, 748 00:34:07,413 --> 00:34:09,181 but the medical literature establishes 749 00:34:09,215 --> 00:34:12,184 no clear causal link to such behavior. 750 00:34:12,218 --> 00:34:16,222 Unpredictable behavior, however, is the norm. 751 00:34:16,255 --> 00:34:17,789 Craig: Everybody's mind is different. 752 00:34:17,823 --> 00:34:19,858 Seen this man that's rumbling a broom, fucking with this shit. 753 00:34:19,891 --> 00:34:22,428 He told me to my face, 754 00:34:22,461 --> 00:34:24,130 "He's -- it's a man over there, 755 00:34:24,163 --> 00:34:25,864 and he's rumbling the broom. He rumbled the motherfucker." 756 00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:27,599 And he looked like he was losing, if you ask me. 757 00:34:27,633 --> 00:34:29,301 -He rumbled a broom? -He -- they was fighting. 758 00:34:29,335 --> 00:34:30,569 Him and the broom. He was fighting some... 759 00:34:30,602 --> 00:34:32,104 In his mind, he was fighting somebody. 760 00:34:32,138 --> 00:34:33,605 He was fighting the broom in all actuality. 761 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:34,773 What was he doing with the broom? 762 00:34:34,806 --> 00:34:36,408 He was fighting on the floor. 763 00:34:36,442 --> 00:34:37,843 He was literally on the floor, throwing punches. 764 00:34:37,876 --> 00:34:39,811 You see his face, he look like he was taking punches. 765 00:34:39,845 --> 00:34:42,681 Like, in his mind, he was fighting somebody. 766 00:34:42,714 --> 00:34:45,317 Like, he -- he really was fighting the broom. 767 00:34:45,351 --> 00:34:46,618 Like, smoke that shit, 768 00:34:46,652 --> 00:34:48,387 and depending on what your mind is like. 769 00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:50,189 You got some sick shit in your mind? 770 00:34:50,222 --> 00:34:52,658 Yeah, it -- it could be a bad experience for you. 771 00:34:53,792 --> 00:34:56,495 [ Cellphone rings ] 772 00:34:56,528 --> 00:34:59,898 -Yo. -Yeah, dawg. Hey, man. 773 00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:02,868 Um, I'm, uh, I'm over here with, 774 00:35:02,901 --> 00:35:06,205 uh, this crew from Vice, 775 00:35:06,238 --> 00:35:10,542 and they're interviewing me about PCP, and I'm... 776 00:35:10,576 --> 00:35:12,511 [ Both laughing ] 777 00:35:17,283 --> 00:35:19,918 Morris: Steve-O is best known for his role on "Jackass", 778 00:35:19,951 --> 00:35:23,789 who is also an avid user of dissociative anesthetics. 779 00:35:25,357 --> 00:35:26,925 After his mother's death, 780 00:35:26,958 --> 00:35:30,396 he made a film called "PCP Saved My Life" 781 00:35:30,429 --> 00:35:31,930 that chronicled the relationship 782 00:35:31,963 --> 00:35:35,867 between PCP and his grieving process. 783 00:35:35,901 --> 00:35:38,870 PCP saved my life. 784 00:35:38,904 --> 00:35:41,207 Morris: So, I saw your movie, "PCP Saved my Life." 785 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,210 -Oh, right. Right. -I really liked it. 786 00:35:44,243 --> 00:35:45,744 Cool, man. I mean, it was what it was. 787 00:35:45,777 --> 00:35:49,781 It was a nice little social experiment, I guess. 788 00:35:49,815 --> 00:35:51,817 But it's an unusual take on PCP. 789 00:35:51,850 --> 00:35:54,653 Almost everything that you hear about the drug is negative. 790 00:35:54,686 --> 00:35:56,822 Right. 791 00:35:56,855 --> 00:36:00,259 I don't know if I would class that experience 792 00:36:00,292 --> 00:36:01,460 as entirely positive, 793 00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:05,297 but it had its positivity, I guess. 794 00:36:05,331 --> 00:36:07,199 It seemed positive. 795 00:36:07,233 --> 00:36:08,867 Yeah. 796 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:10,469 'Cause here's the deal, okay? 797 00:36:10,502 --> 00:36:13,572 I smoked PCP for 5 fucking days in a row. 798 00:36:13,605 --> 00:36:16,742 The reason for this video is so that no one watch-- 799 00:36:16,775 --> 00:36:19,278 no one watches it and then smokes PCP. 800 00:36:19,311 --> 00:36:22,714 I did my service to the world by smoking PCP. 801 00:36:22,748 --> 00:36:26,318 I was asked, "When was the last time you cried?" 802 00:36:26,352 --> 00:36:28,554 Which was, "When my mom's brain blew up 803 00:36:28,587 --> 00:36:31,857 from an aneurysm on October 10, 1998." 804 00:36:31,890 --> 00:36:34,460 People would just bring it to me wherever I was at. 805 00:36:34,493 --> 00:36:37,229 I smoked so much of it, and, uh, 806 00:36:37,263 --> 00:36:40,399 what I remember was profound hallucinations 807 00:36:40,432 --> 00:36:41,767 of my mother 808 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,337 who had passed away 3 1/2 years before that. 809 00:36:45,371 --> 00:36:47,005 Just, I had a lot of intense grief 810 00:36:47,038 --> 00:36:48,840 over losing my mom. 811 00:36:48,874 --> 00:36:51,743 Tonight's show is for my fucking mother. 812 00:36:51,777 --> 00:36:54,913 And I want you to scream louder than that for her. 813 00:36:54,946 --> 00:37:00,919 You repeat after me -- "PCP saved my life." 814 00:37:00,952 --> 00:37:04,490 Audience: PCP saved my life. 815 00:37:04,523 --> 00:37:06,992 Steve-O: Fuck yeah, it did. 816 00:37:07,025 --> 00:37:08,594 But later, 817 00:37:08,627 --> 00:37:12,864 and after I had vowed to never do it again, 818 00:37:12,898 --> 00:37:16,635 I really got into a darker place with it. 819 00:37:16,668 --> 00:37:20,038 Man, dude. We're all gonna die. 820 00:37:20,071 --> 00:37:25,477 I think I'm gonna die, like, soon. 821 00:37:25,511 --> 00:37:28,947 There was one experience where I was sitting there, 822 00:37:28,980 --> 00:37:31,783 and I had all my drugs on that table. 823 00:37:31,817 --> 00:37:33,385 It was a big, swiveling chair, 824 00:37:33,419 --> 00:37:35,354 and I remember looking at all these drugs, 825 00:37:35,387 --> 00:37:37,623 thinking to myself, "I'm killing myself. 826 00:37:37,656 --> 00:37:39,925 I mean, just, like, there's no longevity in this." 827 00:37:39,958 --> 00:37:44,596 And then I thought, "I don't care if I die." 828 00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:46,865 And I leaned down to do more drugs, 829 00:37:46,898 --> 00:37:50,402 and right then, the chair I was in just spun. 830 00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:54,940 Like -- like as if, like, a big, powerful, strong, 831 00:37:54,973 --> 00:37:57,576 invisible man was standing next to it and -- 832 00:37:57,609 --> 00:37:58,944 and just spun it. 833 00:37:58,977 --> 00:38:01,680 Like, I was almost thrown out of it. 834 00:38:01,713 --> 00:38:04,916 And the message that I gleaned from that was, 835 00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:06,485 "Think again. 836 00:38:06,518 --> 00:38:09,921 It's very important that -- that you care. 837 00:38:09,955 --> 00:38:11,490 That -- that you not die." 838 00:38:11,523 --> 00:38:13,925 And so you think it was a sort of PCP entity 839 00:38:13,959 --> 00:38:15,961 that was protecting you on some level? 840 00:38:15,994 --> 00:38:17,596 Yeah. Yeah. And to this day... 841 00:38:17,629 --> 00:38:19,998 I mean, now I haven't done drugs in over 7 years. 842 00:38:20,031 --> 00:38:25,837 And I truly believe that drugs like this, 843 00:38:25,871 --> 00:38:29,741 uh, erode barriers that -- 844 00:38:29,775 --> 00:38:31,510 that -- that... 845 00:38:31,543 --> 00:38:35,414 between us and the spirit world. 846 00:38:35,447 --> 00:38:37,516 You don't -- Wow. That's really good. 847 00:38:40,085 --> 00:38:43,822 It seems like PCP generates some good stories. 848 00:38:43,855 --> 00:38:45,457 Sure. That's something to be said for it. 849 00:38:45,491 --> 00:38:47,859 Yeah, you know, I was just thinking, too. 850 00:38:47,893 --> 00:38:49,661 I wonder, uh... 851 00:38:49,695 --> 00:38:52,030 Do you feel like you, um... 852 00:38:52,063 --> 00:38:54,533 Do you have any kind of a conscience about, 853 00:38:54,566 --> 00:38:57,369 like, making it sort of sound, like, kind of cool? 854 00:38:57,403 --> 00:39:00,105 Like, maybe people are gonna see this and think, 855 00:39:00,138 --> 00:39:02,374 "God, I want that to happen to me." 856 00:39:02,408 --> 00:39:04,410 I don't know 'cause, even if we tried, 857 00:39:04,443 --> 00:39:08,447 it's hard to make a pro-PCP story. 858 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,881 That's the quote of the day. 859 00:39:09,915 --> 00:39:13,752 "It's hard to make a pro-PCP story." 860 00:39:13,785 --> 00:39:14,986 That's great. 861 00:39:15,020 --> 00:39:17,889 It's tough to make PCP look good. 862 00:39:23,995 --> 00:39:25,531 Most people who do PCP, yo, 863 00:39:25,564 --> 00:39:27,165 they got some emotional shit with them, dawg. 864 00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:29,034 Like, re-- I noticed that shit. 865 00:39:29,067 --> 00:39:31,670 There's always something they trying to escape. 866 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,174 That's why motherfuckers is the way they is. 867 00:39:36,207 --> 00:39:38,710 That's why we on the drugs that we on, bro. 868 00:39:40,812 --> 00:39:44,716 Whether it be weed or -- or drinking. 869 00:39:44,750 --> 00:39:47,152 I think everybody needs some type of escape. 870 00:39:47,185 --> 00:39:50,622 [ Man yelling indistinctly ] 871 00:39:50,656 --> 00:39:51,890 Craig: Bro, you look around. 872 00:39:51,923 --> 00:39:53,925 Like, you see how we live out here. 873 00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:55,461 I don't watch the news no more. 874 00:39:55,494 --> 00:39:56,695 I already know what the fuck happened. 875 00:39:56,728 --> 00:40:00,666 The -- the news is like a re-run. 876 00:40:00,699 --> 00:40:02,734 A man shot in North Philadelphia. 877 00:40:02,768 --> 00:40:05,504 Another three men slain here. 878 00:40:05,537 --> 00:40:06,772 The shit like that, it -- 879 00:40:06,805 --> 00:40:09,641 it start to get to you after a while. 880 00:40:09,675 --> 00:40:11,510 If smoking and dipping is gonna take you away 881 00:40:11,543 --> 00:40:12,744 from this shit for 6 hours, 882 00:40:12,778 --> 00:40:14,646 that's what motherfuckers is gonna do. 883 00:40:26,992 --> 00:40:28,494 Morris: It's hard to find a drug 884 00:40:28,527 --> 00:40:31,930 that people regard more negatively than PCP. 885 00:40:31,963 --> 00:40:35,133 But its reputation is undeserved. 886 00:40:35,166 --> 00:40:37,703 It's a drug that had acknowledged medicinal use 887 00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:40,005 in anesthesia and psychiatry, 888 00:40:40,038 --> 00:40:42,140 and a drug that can serve as the basis 889 00:40:42,173 --> 00:40:46,545 for new therapies in the future. 890 00:40:46,578 --> 00:40:50,115 Dissociative drugs, they have therapeutic effects. 891 00:40:50,148 --> 00:40:52,017 It's just that separating those effects 892 00:40:52,050 --> 00:40:54,920 from the side effects has been the biggest issue. 893 00:40:54,953 --> 00:40:57,856 But what we can do is develop better derivatives 894 00:40:57,889 --> 00:40:59,190 that have less side effects, 895 00:40:59,224 --> 00:41:01,793 and -- and those are in clinical trials now. 896 00:41:01,827 --> 00:41:04,062 And many people have been funded 897 00:41:04,095 --> 00:41:05,931 to investigate derivatives of PCP 898 00:41:05,964 --> 00:41:07,899 because they are important. 899 00:41:07,933 --> 00:41:09,735 They're important to a whole range 900 00:41:09,768 --> 00:41:11,637 of therapeutic avenues, 901 00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:15,507 including neuropathic pain, neurodegenerative diseases, 902 00:41:15,541 --> 00:41:18,544 stroke, epilepsy, tinnitus. 903 00:41:18,577 --> 00:41:21,780 I mean, you know, the list goes on and on. 904 00:41:21,813 --> 00:41:26,618 PCP opened up all these different doors. 905 00:41:26,652 --> 00:41:29,788 Maddox was obviously a brilliant chemist, 906 00:41:29,821 --> 00:41:32,290 and I think that's best exemplified by the fact 907 00:41:32,323 --> 00:41:33,859 that he followed through 908 00:41:33,892 --> 00:41:35,961 with this serendipitous discovery, 909 00:41:35,994 --> 00:41:37,996 and that was PCP. 910 00:41:38,029 --> 00:41:40,532 Many medicinal chemists and pharmacologists 911 00:41:40,566 --> 00:41:41,867 have spent their entire careers 912 00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:43,669 following up on Maddox's discovery. 913 00:41:43,702 --> 00:41:45,571 I mean, that alone is significant. 914 00:41:45,604 --> 00:41:47,739 Certainly, I've spent the last 6 years 915 00:41:47,773 --> 00:41:50,809 or so, you know, following up on it 916 00:41:50,842 --> 00:41:53,178 and looking into the structure activity relationship 917 00:41:53,211 --> 00:41:56,114 of these compounds, many of which he made. 918 00:41:56,147 --> 00:41:59,651 Do you think we, as a country and as a society, 919 00:41:59,685 --> 00:42:02,721 owe Dr. Maddox an apology? 920 00:42:02,754 --> 00:42:04,222 I think, you know, 921 00:42:04,255 --> 00:42:07,225 maybe the media should apologize to him. 922 00:42:07,258 --> 00:42:10,762 Maybe they should bring him a bouquet of flowers. 923 00:42:10,796 --> 00:42:12,798 Yes. Somebody certainly should. 924 00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,268 So... 925 00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:19,070 Somebody certainly should. 926 00:42:32,050 --> 00:42:34,252 Morris: This bouquet of flowers is for Victor Harold Maddox, 927 00:42:34,285 --> 00:42:36,354 the chemist who discovered PCP. 928 00:42:36,387 --> 00:42:38,590 It contains 25 white roses 929 00:42:38,624 --> 00:42:41,259 to signify the 25 hydrogen atoms, 930 00:42:41,292 --> 00:42:44,863 17 black roses for the 17 carbon atoms, 931 00:42:44,896 --> 00:42:47,633 and one blue rose for the nitrogen atom. 932 00:42:53,839 --> 00:42:56,708 Vic Maddox made a scientific breakthrough 933 00:42:56,742 --> 00:43:00,612 when he accidentally discovered PCP, 934 00:43:00,646 --> 00:43:03,949 paving the way for the study of NMDA receptors 935 00:43:03,982 --> 00:43:08,053 and revolutionizing the history of anesthesia. 936 00:43:08,086 --> 00:43:11,056 Wyllie: Everything happens intentionally. 937 00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:12,891 Nothing is left to chance. 938 00:43:15,026 --> 00:43:18,630 E.F. Domino once said that humans, 939 00:43:18,664 --> 00:43:21,332 in their never-ending quest to explore 940 00:43:21,366 --> 00:43:27,005 and discover, may yet find a pot of therapeutic gold 941 00:43:27,038 --> 00:43:30,208 at the end of a spectacular and, at times, 942 00:43:30,241 --> 00:43:34,312 rather dismal PCP rainbow. 943 00:43:36,982 --> 00:43:38,383 On behalf of a world 944 00:43:38,416 --> 00:43:42,053 that has misunderstood your greatest discovery, 945 00:43:42,087 --> 00:43:44,990 I'm sorry, Dr. Maddox. 946 00:43:45,023 --> 00:43:46,391 I'm sorry. 72043

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