All language subtitles for the.confession.tapes.s01e07.720p.web.x264-strife

[faint click, whirring]

Whew.

[man] Psychologically, what happened
when you came here...

is that you had a gun to your head.

[man] But you made probably
one of the worst mistakes

a human being can make.

[man] You see, how does the system
punish you?

Because you're gonna
punish yourself a lifetime.

And that's why I think
you're more a victim...

than perhaps your own children.

Because, see,
their fate is sealed in time.

For some reason,
your fate has been left in the air.

[man] The test is about to begin.

[man] The Lawrence DeLisle story
is really tragic.

And it's also a mystery.

It doesn't make a lot of sense
that a father who has no criminal record

would suddenly drive his car
into the river with his family.

It was really speeding.
I mean, it was roaring.

And the car crashed through the barricades
and went in the river.

The whole thing was just "whoom-bam."

[camera shutter clicks]

[man] It's not a question
of whether he was at the scene.

Everybody knows he was at the scene.

It's just a question of,
"What is his intent?"

It was a blockbuster story.

The terrible incident that happened here
has put a harsh spotlight

on this small Downriver community.

[man] The media kept on showing the crane
lifting this car out of the water.

[man 2] The car is essentially
the murder weapon,

so we have to find out
everything we can about it.

[man 3] It strains anybody's sense
of justice to think,

"Oh, that's just an accident."

Especially when the mother
and father escape.

[man] From the standpoint
of being a reporter,

we affected what happened in this case.

See, as a human being...

you try to think...

of a logical reason...

for an illogical act.

You're not equipped.

[Palmatier] I've had the pleasure

of testing some of the top
brain scientists in the world.

I test some very, very intelligent people.

They can't think their way
through the test.

[Palmatier] Now, so that we're both here
for the same reason,

what is your understanding
of what the test is supposed to be about?

Well, I don't know exactly
what you mean by that question.

The test, as far as I know,
is to find out if I'm telling the truth.

Right?

[Palmatier] About what?

-I don't know, the accident, I guess.
-[Palmatier] Okay.

-What it is, is that on August the 3rd...
-Right.

...you had an accident

where your car left the roadway
and went into the Detroit River.

And I want to know if,
in fact, it was an accident

or if it was a purposeful act.

-It's that simple.
-Okay.

So, what I need to have you do

is go through for me
everything you remember happening.

You're talking August 3rd.

Temperature that day
was probably close to 90.

♪ When you're lonely ♪

[DeLisle] I'd been working all day.

I was a service manager...

but I specialized, just like my father,
in brakes and front end.

We lived in Lincoln Park,
the suburb outside of Detroit.

I met Sue about six months
prior to my 18th birthday.

We had four very beautiful children.

Emily Suzanne, our fourth,
was christened in 1989.

They were everything to me.

I mean, my son... so good at baseball.

♪ Just remember ♪

[DeLisle] This particular night...

we went shopping for the girls' beds.

And everyone was just in such a good mood

that we decided we were gonna go
get some ice cream.

♪ And heartbreak ♪

[DeLisle] Bob-Jo's, they sell the best
custard ice cream in all Downriver.

We had some ice cream.

My legs had been bothering me
for the last few hours,

so I took my shoes off.

When we left,
my daughter asked my wife and I,

"Can we go down and see the boats again,
like we did the night before?"

So we drove to the end of the street.

We stopped there, I'm thinking,
"God, let a boat come by."

No boat came by.

Meanwhile, our youngest
is starting to teethe.

So we turned around
and my wife said, "Stop in this store."

When we left,
I misjudged my turn when I came out.

A leg cramp happened.

My foot stomped down on the gas.

I reached down, pulled my foot off.
The car did not slow down.

Just then, my wife reached over,

grabbed the steering wheel,
started yanking hard to the right.

Well, I was trying to get control
of the vehicle to stop it,

but we had ran out of street,
and we were airborne from that point.

[crickets chirping]

[man] Being the senior detective,
I was there within five minutes.

That was the start of sort of a nightmare.

[Galeski] It ended up
approximately 90 feet

south down the river
because we have a strong current.

They had big, huge lights that, you know,
tried to light up the scene.

And the taillights were still visible
underneath the water.

[DeLisle] The next thing I know,
I'm treading water,

trying to shake off the cobwebs.

When I looked around
to find where the car was...

only the tail end of it was sticking up,
straight up out of the water.

And before I could yell for help,
it rolled under the water,

and I can't swim.

Eventually, I heard my wife cry out,

and it was when I heard her voice
that I was able to reach out

because I felt there might be hope now.

The first baby that came out
was handed to me,

which I handed to the rescue crew.

And they were brought up
at various times, one at a time.

[siren wails]

[faint radio chatter]

[DeLisle]
I remember being in the hospital,

looking at the lights above me
as they were wheeling me down the hallway.

I remember them talking
about they found the children.

And it ended up that they had passed away

in the exact opposite order
that they were, uh, born in.

I remember the arresting officer,
Galeski, came up.

He was asking questions.

[Galeski]
Are you-- are you in a frame of mind,

or are you willing
to tell us what happened?

[DeLisle] I turned down Eureka.

My leg was killing me.

My left foot was crossed over,
and I was trying to reach down

to get whatever was stuck unstuck.

[Galeski] What do you mean "stuck"?
What was stuck?

[DeLisle] I don't know. Maybe my shoes
or something. I don't know.

-[Galeski] You had your shoes off?
-My shoes were off.

[DeLisle] Something was stuck
in the gas pedal.

At that time, he told me
that he had a leg cramp

and that's what caused him
to push down on the gas pedal,

and, subsequently,
he didn't know where he was.

A few days later,
he told me that the accelerator stuck.

And that set off some bells for me

because now that's the second story
he told me.

[man] You know, that was the initial
unbelievable thing about this case.

How can you have a cramp in your leg
and drive your car into the river?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

"Why, I'd do this and I'd do that,

and I'd make sure no cramp would cause me
to drive my car into the river."

That seemed like
he was making something up

to cover intentionally killing
his children.

And that's what made the media

and the police suspicious
from the beginning.

[Eaman] I'm starting to relive
the experience that this case was,

and it's not a happy memory.

[Eaman] Very strange to be back here.

I'm not sure I ever actually came down
to the end and looked in the water,

'cause I wasn't really interested
in getting close to the water

where his four kids had died, so...

I just came down the street,
and I let my investigator, I believe,

take the pictures
and interview the witnesses.

But I came and looked. I remember that.

And then I got to see
the apartment building

where, at least one of the witnesses was.

[reporter] Aside from Lawrence
and Suzanne DeLisle,

Beverly Lake may be the best witness
as to what happened.

She had a bird's-eye view.

Beverly lives up there,
in the corner apartment

on the top floor of the Biddle House.

Tonight, in her first local TV interview,

she tells what she saw that night
and how it changed her life.

There. It was just a nightmare.
It's something you'd never forget.

[Lake] I was in the wrong place
at the wrong time.

Or maybe I was in the right place
at the right time. Ahem.

My husband called me and the guys
next door the "Snoop Sisters."

He said, "You know, one of these days,
you're gonna see a murder."

[Lake] I was sitting
on the 11th floor balcony.

I think the time was about 9:20.

We heard this horrible roar,

and the car crashed through the barricades
and went in the river.

The whole thing was just "whoom-bam."
You knew there was no stopping.

You knew there was no way out.
This was a one-way trip. You knew it.

[reporter] Shock, anger, disgust.

All of those emotions are swirling
through the city of Wyandotte today,

indeed, throughout the Metropolitan area.

This is a story that people
simply cannot understand...

a darkness that people cannot fathom.

[Eaman] Because of the sensational
nature of the case,

the news media was staking out his house.

They were attempting to interview him.
They finally got an interview.

[camera shutters clicking]

[DeLisle] That interview haunted me
for a long time.

Before we came out,
a family member gave me a Valium.

I actually took two of 'em.

I was barely cognizant of my surroundings.

I was grabbing at the wheel.
I was grabbing at the ignition.

I was grabbing at the gear shift. I--

if I touched any one part of those,
I don't know.

[DeLisle] It happened so fast.

My leg, I thought, curled under,
and I thought my left leg went over.

So I don't know if my right leg
was on the gas pedal.

I thought it was by the seat
'cause I was trying to rub it.

Left foot kicked over.

[Eaman] Larry and Suzanne
didn't express any emotion or feeling,

which people thought was really weird.

[DeLisle] I come from a family that tries
to greet everybody with a smile,

even when we're sad.

It's just the way our family is.
We keep things to ourselves.

You weren't there
for the nights of crying.

You weren't there for the days and weeks

that my wife and I
had grieved for our children.

[Eaman] How could you not be numb
with all of that?

How could the news be so insensitive

as to push these people
and not just leave 'em alone?

It's easier to accept that people are evil
and they killed the children

than it is to say,
"That's a tragic accident."

[Palmatier]
Have you told the complete truth

about why your car went in the river?

The Wyandotte police selected Palmatier
to do the polygraph

because of his reputation
of extracting confessions from people.

[Eaman] His techniques were well-known.

[Palmatier]
When I was a new police officer,

they said,
"You have to take a polygraph test."

I said, "What?"

The examiner said,

"I want you to sit there, and I want you
to relax as much as possible."

Well, I failed the polygraph.

And he showed me the polygraph charts,
and there was almost nothing there.

I said, "You told me to relax."

I said, "I've been into Zen Buddhism.
I've been into the martial arts."

I said, "I've practiced
under the masters in Okinawa."

I said, "You want me to relax?
It's a form of meditation.

I can do that."

He said, "Don't do it."
He said, "Just talk to me."

And I did fine on the polygraph test.

But that polygraph test just...
how do it know?

So I decided that that's what
I was going to do as a police officer.

My job is to find out what's true.

And in Mr. DeLisle's case,

he certainly didn't know
what a truthful person

who really has suffered
that kind of trauma behaves like.

There was never any anger.

There was never
any real emotional response.

We call it a "very flat affect."

[Palmatier] Worst thing that ever happened
to you emotionally?

Emotionally?

Just happened, you know?

I still...

feel as if my kids are at home...

waiting there, you know? And it...

I walk in and there's nobody there,
and I know that they're coming.

[Palmatier]
The police just didn't know what was true.

The fact that the car took a perfect line
down Eureka Road,

headed for the Detroit River,

just was very difficult to explain.

I brought my leg like this, real quick.

And I guess I kicked a shoe off.

I don't know if it must have
got jammed in there or what.

The car started accelerating
really quick.

And my wife says, "Stop." You know?

I'm saying, "I can't," you know?
"It's-- something's stuck."

I'm reaching over, and I took my foot

and started kicking over
at the brake pedal,

but my foot kept slipping off.

[Palmatier] Do you think
it was your left foot on the gas,

or was there a tennis shoe
wedged in there?

I think my left foot was on it afterwards.

Originally, it might have been.

It had to have been.

[Palmatier] Think about
where the accelerator is and the brake.

Try to step on the gas
with your left foot.

It's not an easy task.

[woman] What if the accelerator
was stuck?

Well, see, that's the kind of...

"what if" that Mr. Eaman as an attorney
would love to present.

[motor rumbling]

[camera shutter clicks]

[Eaman] The first thing a good detective
should have done

is gone out and checked the car out

to see if there was something wrong
with the car.

When they pulled the car out of the river,

the news cameras captured all of that.

My mechanic, Jim Colquell,
examined the car,

and he found several defects.

One was a kink in the accelerator cable
that would cause the cable to stick.

Another was the throttle plates.

He could hear them scraping
on the inside of the carburetor.

And the engine mount was broken.

And when the engine mount is broken,
the engine will tilt.

And when it tilts,
it pulls the accelerator cable,

and that can cause
the accelerator cable to stick, too.

So, before the car was ever tested,

Jim Colquell identified
these defects in the car

that would cause sudden and rapid
uncontrolled acceleration.

[tires screech]

[Eaman] They went to test the car.

And this car had been at the bottom
of the river. They got it started.

[reporter] At least 14 times,

investigators accelerated
and slammed the brakes...

[tires screech]

...over a 396-foot course--

the exact distance
the wagon traveled on this street,

before slamming through the barrier
into the river.

All of a sudden,
the accelerator stuck on the car.

The engine was racing out of control.

And I could still see these guys
running around the car.

"What's happening?"
They put the hood up.

They point to the--
and then he turns the key off.

And it stopped accelerating.

And then, they start the car up again,
and the accelerator is not sticking,

so they drive it the length
of the test track they were on

and hit the brakes
to see if the brakes worked,

and that's the end of the test.

I mean, how more obvious could it be?

That era of a Ford,
I would be very suspect.

Did I work on Larry's car? No.
Did I work on one like it? Yes.

My primary business
is cars and light trucks.

I started here in '76,
so I obviously saw some '78s.

That model year vehicle
had norm problems

with, like, broken motor mounts
and sticking gas pedals.

After they fished it out of the water,

the car should have been
really closely inspected.

I don't think it was.

[bangs]

Here's a '76 Ford involved
in a sudden acceleration accident.

'77 Ford with a sticking accelerator.

'77 Ford, pushed down on the gas to pass
the car, accelerated out of control.

A '75 Mercury station wagon.
Car accelerated unexpectedly.

Worn motor mounts
caused this car to accelerate.

It goes on and on.

And, of course, witnesses did hear
the engine still racing

when the car was airborne,

which means something is stuck.

I think, to Galeski, that would mean
he kept his foot on the gas,

but I think it means something is stuck.

[Tim DeLisle] Larry was a mechanic.
His dad was a mechanic.

Anybody that's been
a mechanic very long...

has probably suffered a runaway
or a broken motor mount, or...

an erratic vehicle operation.

And since we know that much about cars,

we would have just popped the gear shift
into neutral and turned the key off.

Maybe he panicked. I don't know.

Maybe the cramp was distracting him so bad
that he couldn't think to do that.

So that's the only part
of the whole tragedy

that I don't understand.

That car was really a point of angst
because this is where--

if there was any genuine emotion,
it was about the car.

Larry's dad suicided.

Shot himself...

in the car that Larry was driving
when he went in the river.

None of us ever understood
why they kept that car.

I understand why he would wanna keep it,
because it was transportation.

But, see, there's some things you do
for your mental health that...

you just do it
because it's a smart thing to do.

And when you open the door,
there's a piece of the car underneath it.

-You know, metal.
-[woman] Yeah.

Yeah. That was filled with caked blood.

[Galeski] And even after we pulled the car
out of the river,

the blood was still visible.

It never washed away.

[Lake] There was a movie that came out
about that time,

and it was a horror movie.

And the name of the movie was Christine.

And Christine was a car,
and every person who owned that car died.

So I, facetiously or jokingly,

even though it probably wasn't funny,
called that car "Christine."

Mm-hmm.

No, the only "Christine" was at the wheel.

[Palmatier] I think that when people get
involved in these types of behaviors...

they have a real need
to have someone understand why.

And in Mr. DeLisle's case,

even though I told him, I think,
at least, two or three times

that he should get up and leave
if my opinion was in error...

he continued to sit and listen.

[Palmatier] And, Larry, unfortunately--
and it's not your fault...

you had some bad models.

Not that the people were bad,
but their ultimate decisions were bad,

like your father.

The decision he made
on how to finally rectify--

I was not as close to my father--

[Palmatier] Whether you were or not...

it still gives you
an inappropriate model...

of how to deal with things
when they finally get to be too much.

[DeLisle] It was very hypnotic,
very hard to not listen to him.

He kept trying to say,
"You're like father, like son."

You know? "He committed suicide.
You're trying to commit suicide."

It was as if he was trying
to brainwash me through his words.

[Palmatier] I don't know why, Larry...

but it seems that I've been given a gift
to look much deeper into people...

than anyone ever thought
it was possible to do.

What are you trying to say?

[Palmatier] Looking at the charts,
everything that's going on,

there was something else going--
it wasn't, as you stated that it was.

So what you're telling me,
basically, is I'm a schizo?

-[Palmatier] I don't know.
-I did it on purpose.

[Palmatier] When we say something's
done "on purpose,"

does that mean that there's pre-planning?

[Eaman] The police were searching
for a theory

to support their suspicion
that he did this on purpose.

[Palmatier] I won't bring myself
to believe...

I guess I don't want to,
that you planned it.

I guess it's possible,
but I don't wanna believe that.

-[DeLisle] I'm no murderer.
-I know you're not.

[DeLisle] You know?

He would have loved for me to say,
"This is what happened, isn't it?"

But then I'm putting words into his mouth.

That's not fair.

[Palmatier]
It happened on an emotional level,

not an intellectual level,
and you made a mistake.

And now, you're left with,

"If I tell the truth,
my life's gonna be ruined."

My life's already ruined.

My kids are gone. I have to start over.

[man] Is Larry DeLisle
criminally responsible for what happened?

One of the things that,
I think, makes this case difficult is...

his wife is the lone surviving witness.

His wife does not blame him
for what happened.

She supports his version of events.

That adds another layer
of sort of complexity to this case.

What woman would forgive their husband
intentionally murdering their children?

I covered that area for more than a year
for The Detroit News.

When people think of Detroit...

Downriver basically exemplifies
the typical auto worker.

There's no question that Larry DeLisle

is morally responsible for the death
of his children on some level,

but it's hard to understand the depth

of the community hostility
towards this couple.

It horrifies me. It just horrifies me.

There were many people
that turned on Suzanne DeLisle

and thought she was possibly complicit
in this whole thing.

I've never heard her one time cry
about those children.

And I have two of my own,
and I know how I feel like that.

All she's done
is cried about that husband.

I called her a bitch.

[reporter] She's not charged
with anything. Why are you-- ?

No, 'cause I feel she's in with it.

She had something to do with it.

[man] To be honest with you,
my very first meeting with Mrs. DeLisle,

I thought it would be something
to the effect of,

"I can't believe what my husband tried
to do to me and what he did to my kids."

Well, there's a good witness.

But it wasn't that.

So I had to look
at what the other evidence would show.

By the time I got the case,
I was probably seven years

into the prosecutor's office.

So I felt like I was a veteran.

Dan was a veteran.

Dan had been around a really long time.

I don't know if I told you
I did 589 death-related investigations

in my 38 years.

Some of the local press likened him

to Clint Eastwood's character,
"Dirty Harry."

[Galeski] Back then, I resembled him
a little bit. I smoked cigars.

They would refer to me as "Dirty Dan."

I never caught that resemblance,
no offense to Dan, but...

Dan kinda had that demeanor.
No-nonsense, driven.

That's the last car we pulled up.
The body was down there 20-some years.

And this is our golf course.

If you go to the dead end,
that's where the accident happened.

[woman] Do you call it an "accident"
or a crime?

[Galeski] No, it's a crime.

[woman] Now, Frank has said
that the accelerator did stick.

Do you want me to--
do you want me to comment on that?

-[woman] Yeah.
-Maybe he's lying.

[Galeski] He went out probably...

50, 75 feet.

That's where they found the car.

When he hit, it went like that,
according to the witnesses, okay?

And then, when the car hit the water,
the windshield blew out.

And that's how Mrs. and Mr. DeLisle
got out, through the windshield.

Okay. All right, come on. Let's go here.

[Galeski] And I was probably
right about here

when they handed me
the first baby, you know?

As the kids come up, they were limp.

We got a report immediately
from the hospital that they're--

they worked on 'em for hours.
You know, tried to get 'em breathing.

[Eaman] Galeski decided
he was gonna "get" Larry.

He was gonna get him for this homicide,
that he must have done it on purpose

'cause he had a screw loose.

[Mitzelfeld]
What level of proof do we need

to believe that he intended to do this?

One of the pieces of evidence was
that he was there the night before.

Okay.

[Simowski] My narrative was,
"Had he been to the area?

Was he familiar with the area?"

One witness, I remember,
her first name was Beverly.

[Galeski] She was excellent.
She was excellent.

Shen was very observant and furnished us
information I never expected.

But it was...

it was awesome.

It was the testimony for premeditation
because of the "three runs."

The first night,
we were just sitting out there,

and my father,
he noted that car and he said,

"I wonder what they're up to."

We looked, and it was just a family.

And then they turned around and they left.

We didn't think anything more of it.

[engine rumbles]

[Lake] The second night, my father said,
"Look, it's that car again."

This time, the car came down to the river.

There was a blockade there,

and he sat there a while and then exited.

And about 20 minutes later,
then it was like the death run.

I'm glad I was there.

I was meant to be there.
He would have gotten away with murder.

[man] At this point, Larry DeLisle...

is sitting there going, "I'm going to jail
for the rest of my life."

And here's his savior, Palmatier.

"All you have to do is say
what I want you to say.

I'll make life easier for you."

And, of course, DeLisle bought into that.

[Abramsky] I recognized the technique
that Detective Palmatier used.

I mean, he broke all the ethical rules.

The steps were that you could do
all kinds of manipulation,

suggestion, wear someone down

because an innocent man
would never confess

to a crime he never committed.

They want to say that what I'm doing,
I'm not testing memory.

Well, that's just malarkey.

Does it work? I know, absolutely.

Does it work
with a high degree of accuracy?

Absolutely.

I've been able to pull rabbits
out of the hat so many times

that it's not even funny.

[Palmatier] You're not telling the truth
about what happened.

Are you a father who's been
so traumatized by a mistake,

or are you just a liar?

Someone who purposefully did something
and is trying to cover it up?

The police and the prosecutors' theory
kept changing in the case.

If you remember, he says
the baby was in the back seat crying

and he had just had a hard day at work.

[Palmatier] I don't know if it was
the baby crying so loud, and...

I don't know why...
the Lord empowered children

with the ability to cry at the pitch
and frequency that they are able to.

But, you know, you could--

I threatened my own daughter
to tie her in a garbage bag

and leave her in the closet for a while.

You know, when she was small.
Just, "Damn, kid, shut up!"

And I'd have to leave.

Kids are making a lot of noise,
you just turn the radio up. You know?

Are you saying I flipped?

[Palmatier] I am saying
that something happened with you.

[Eaman] Just say some other part of you
did it, or you snapped,

and then it's okay if you say it that way.

That's what they try to do.

[DeLisle] How can you say "snapped"?

They're trying to say "snapped"
because the baby was screaming.

Four children. All four of them teethed.

I've changed dirty diapers, bad rashes...

All of those things
come with being a parent.

[Palmatier]
It took a special kind of courage...

for you to do what you did
and to keep the whole family together.

[DeLisle] I can't believe...

that somewhere deep inside of me,

there is a demon
that would do that on purpose.

[Palmatier]
That is extremely astute on your part.

"Astute"?

[Palmatier]
Very perceptive. Very intelligent...

that you recognize that because...

[DeLisle] I'm going by what you're saying.

Larry, within each of us, there's a demon.

And it's when we deny it exists
that it will come up behind us.

It's the fool
that won't acknowledge its existence.

[Abramsky] See, all of that goes toward
helping someone

come to terms with the fact
they've done something terrible.

But it really isn't their fault.
"It's the demon inside of me.

It's not really my fault."
That kind of thing.

So there's a psychological out
in something like this.

If something snapped,
I wanna know about it.

[Palmatier] You do.

And what it is...

see, we've already come far.

Because, before, you didn't wanna know.

[Abramsky] All you want
is a single statement out of someone.

That's all they have to say, is one thing.

And then it's too late.

[Eaman] Larry was no match for Palmatier.

He had a tenth-grade education.

So Larry resisted for a long time.

But everybody's got a breaking point.

[Palmatier]
Were you just trying to scare your wife?

But then you see the water coming up

and panicked couldn't take your foot off?

I didn't wanna hurt her.

I didn't wanna hurt the kids.

I did.

I have to pay for that
for the rest of my life, inside.

Stupid mistake.

Like you said, stupid mistake.

That's another sign of false confessions.

When people just parrot
what the examiner is saying.

[Eaman] When I watched the videotape,

where they were planting ideas
in his mind

and trying to get him to agree
with their theories of the case,

and I saw him slip away
as they were talking to him.

His body position changed,

his responses changed.

You could see they were
wearing him down slowly.

If you look at a lot of his behavior
during that entire tape,

even when I left the room
and he pulled the chair out,

put his feet in there,
he closes his eyes and he sits back.

And that's where his attorney wants to say
that he had a nervous breakdown.

I say that attorney has never seen
a for-real nervous breakdown.

[Palmatier]
I'll tell you what, Larry.

You've come this far with me.

[speaking faintly]
I could leave the room.

[Palmatier] I know that.

It's the reason that people
who don't tell the truth stay here.

That's how I knew
you weren't telling the truth for sure...

back a long time ago.

[Eaman] Nobody walks out of those rooms.

I've had many cases
where the police have testified,

"He was free to go
at any time he wanted to.

He could have got up and walked out."

I've never seen anybody who "got up
and walked out" of an interrogation room.

They don't really believe
they can do that,

so they stay there and keep talking.

[Palmatier]
Will you try to talk to the detectives?

[Eaman] I started watching it
late at night.

I thought I'd watch a couple hours
before I went to bed.

I ended up watching
the entire interrogation

without stopping,
till about three o'clock in the morning.

And then, later,
when I consulted with a psychologist,

he said, "Well, of course.
He was using hypnotic techniques.

And you were being hypnotized as you were
listening to the rhythm of his voice."

[Palmatier] Mr. Eaman says, "I watched.

I watched that video
and I was hypnotized."

Well, my comeback to that is, "Well, then,

why the hell didn't you confess
to the murder?"

I have nothing to do with hypnosis.

He just didn't like what he saw.

[Galeski] John told me that you wanted me
to come and talk to you.

Something you wanna tell me?

[speaking faintly]
No. I'm just tired.

[Galeski] As far as what happened
the night of the accident.

It was a terrible mistake.

I panicked.

[whispers]
It was stupid.

[Galeski] Did you know what you were doing
when you were driving...

down the street and accelerating?

At first.

What were you thinking at first?

That I wanted to get real close
and slam on the brakes.

-You know?
-You didn't want anyone to drown?

No.

I think about a hundred feet before...

I tried to stop. I couldn't...

I couldn't get my foot up, and I just...

I froze.

[Galeski] But you, intentionally,
when you took off,

-you stepped on the accelerator.
-Yes.

[Galeski]
You steered towards the river.

You had intentions
to go in that river, didn't you?

[speaking faintly]
No.

I might as well have been.

[DeLisle] He tried to instill the guilt
that wasn't there...

but only grew
because of the way he pursued it.

Eventually, I was just out of it,

between the accident
flashing in my head and--

you just want it to end, so you say
whatever he wants just to make it end.

They took a man
who just lost all four of his children

and grilled him for hours,

trying to convince him
he did it on purpose.

Eventually got him to say what happened,
and then he broke.

People like me should be
locked up forever, I guess.

[faint whirring]

[Mitzelfeld] Shortly after Larry DeLisle
was interviewed by the police

for something, like, ten hours...

he was arrested,
and the police held a news conference,

and the police chief said...

He used the term, "confessed."
"Larry DeLisle has confessed."

[Simowski] The press was all over this,

and, you know,
that's always the caution...

but we introduced that statement
as evidence.

Then, subsequent to that,

there were motions by the defense
to suppress his statement.

[Eaman] You know, as a lawyer,
your job is to keep out of evidence

something that's false,
something that's illegal,

something that's a violation
of the Constitution.

And if I had not filed a motion
to suppress that confession,

I would be negligent as a lawyer.

[man] From my perspective,
you can see what occurred

when you get to look at a videotape.

And it's the only case in my career...

that I remember ever having
a videotape to look at

with respect to a statement.

[Colombo] I wish the police did it
all the time.

After viewing that video,

which was approximately eight
or eight-and-a-half hours long,

I felt that his mental state
and the length of the interrogation

and watching him completely wear down
and become totally exhausted

led me to the conclusion that, in fact,

that was an involuntary statement.

[Eaman]
But the media immediately went in court,

filed motions to get all that evidence,

get it released to them,
so they could publish it.

They fought to get that
even though the judge had said

it's not admissible at trial.

In this entire courtroom,
Your Honor, I'm the only one

who's suggesting that my client
has a right to a fair trial.

They're just taking a substantial risk.

[reporter] The risk on Mr. DeLisle's
future and fate, you mean?

That's right, and a risk
that he will never get a fair trial.

[news anchor] Channel 7's Ken Ford
has been watching

and listening to the tapes,
quite frankly, all day long,

which a court order prevents us
from replaying to you, directly, at least.

Ken joins us now with more
in this live action-cam report. Ken?

Well, Rich, it's been an unbelievable day,
listening and watching those tapes.

I can tell you that
it was brutal psychological testing.

It had DeLisle questioning his own sanity
over and over on these tapes,

but it did achieve
what the police were after,

and that, of course, was a confession.

[Mitzelfeld]
We used some of the exact words

that Larry DeLisle had used.

[Mitzelfeld] There's things in there
that certainly are problematic.

There are inculpating statements in that.

But there are a lot of things
that don't seem like a confession,

and when you take it as a whole,

it was not what I would have
sort of suspected was a confession.

When you think about it,
it's kinda ridiculous,

that you would throw out a confession,

but you'd allow the public to know
what was in that statement,

knowing that some of those people
are gonna be on the jury.

I'm really sorry it happened,

but I think he should get
what he's got coming.

I can't see leaving them babies in there.

He could have got one, anyway.

Drop him out in the lake
with the same crane

that pulled the station wagon
out of the lake.

Drop him right back in.

If there ever was a case where venue
ought to have been changed, this was it.

[Colombo] The five jurors, as I recall,
that ended up on the jury

and who knew there had been
a statement made by Mr. DeLisle,

also indicated
that they could set that knowledge aside

and decide this case
based upon the evidence.

How can you put that out of your mind?

I think that sometimes
the law engages in fiction.

[Colombo] This would be a horrific case,
no matter where it was heard.

I felt that it was not necessary
to change venue in this case.

[Eaman] This was called
the "media courtroom"

because they could put the media
behind the glass.

[reporter]
I'm talking to you from the press room

above the courtroom
of Judge Robert Colombo Jr.

As you can see behind me,
the room is virtually empty right now.

The jurors are out.

As I watched the jury through the trial,
it was clear they knew...

that the media was right behind
that glass up there.

[news anchor] Quick question, Ken.

Do members of the jury
get to watch and listen

to videotape replays of the testimony
like everybody at home just did?

Hopefully not.

The judge instructs them
over and over and over:

"Don't read the papers,
don't listen to radio,"

and certainly don't watch
television reports like this one.

Hopefully, they're not.

[Eaman] The trial really was
just an exercise

to get to the verdict
that the public wanted to get to,

no matter what.

Now, Mr. Eaman says, "Look at the tape."

[Eaman] I'll never forget the prosecutor,
in his rebuttal argument,

used an argument that I think
was quite persuasive to the jury,

even though it was not
an accurate argument.

And I remember an argument,

kinda counting out
and looking at my watch.

All right, we will see what you can do
in seven seconds.

We'll begin...

Now. One, two, three...

four, five, six, seven.

Hmm.

In seven seconds,

your babies are in the car,
you go into the river,

and you're telling me
you can't turn the wheel,

step on the brake, turn off the key?

[Simowski] There are things you can do.

This is the Motor City. People know cars.

[Eaman] Ladies and gentlemen,
we just heard a kind of argument

that I think was designed more to appeal

to your emotions and your feelings

than it was to appeal
to the evidence in this case.

Never mind that Larry said
in his interview with the police

when they first talked to him,

"Something's stuck," he said.
"Something's stuck."

What I'm trying to show
is this case got to be a murder case

because Sergeant Galeski treated it one--
like one from the beginning,

and did not investigate it subjectively

and ignored these clues,
and that's why we're here.

[Eaman] During the interview with
Mr. DeLisle on August 5th, did he cry?

Could you clarify what you mean by "cry"?

-[Eaman] Shed tears.
-He shed tears.

-Okay, did his voice break on occasion?
-Yes.

Okay.

[Eaman] And during the interview
with Mr. DeLisle,

I wanna ask you if you asked him
the following questions

and he gave you
the following answers, all right?

"DeLisle: 'My leg was killing me.

My left foot was crossed over,

and I'm trying to reach down
to get whatever was stuck.'" "Stuck."

'I tried with my left
to get on the brake pedal,

but it kept slipping off.'

Galeski: 'What do you mean "stuck"?
What was stuck?'

DeLisle: 'I don't know.

My shoes were off.

Something was stuck in the gas pedal,
and it must have been my shoes.'"

Do you remember
those questions and answers?

-[Galeski] Yes, I do.
-They did occur during the interview

-of August 5th?
-Yes.

[Eaman] They, of course,
went right by that,

and the general public went right by that,
and the jury went right by that.

They were gonna hold
these parents accountable,

and they were not gonna let
some technicality

that got a confession kicked out

prevent them from finding him guilty.

Count one, Brian DeLisle,
guilty of first-degree murder.

Count two, Melissa DeLisle,
guilty of first-degree murder.

Count three, Catherine DeLisle,
guilty of first-degree murder.

[wife sobs]

[foreman] Count four, Emily DeLisle,
guilty of first-degree murder.

Count five, Suzanne DeLisle,
guilty of attempted murder.

[wife whimpering, sobbing]

[Mitzelfeld] After I saw the jury
come back as quickly as they did,

knowing that the jury knew
about his statements to the police,

at that point, it became clear to me

that the media played a role
in him not receiving a fair trial.

[camera shutters clicking]

I think Mr. DeLisle was convicted
in the press before he even got to trial,

and I think that it's difficult
for people in the community

to overlook the opinions and the attitudes

that you, fellows,
developed in the community.

They can't put those aside
and try the case fairly.

I never felt that I had to be
vindicated of anything.

And I don't feel
that I've done anything wrong,

and I'm glad it turned out the way it did,
and I feel good about that.

Did this guy get a fair trial,
or did the media blow it? I mean,

did the media cover this thing
at the beginning

so that everybody had
an opinion before...

-Well, Bill.
-...the trial ever started?

I can tell you this,
there wasn't a member of the jury

who didn't say, in a questionnaire
that the judge had given them,

that they didn't know all about this.

They'd all heard about it,
they knew about it before,

but they said, over and over,

"We can be fair.
We can handle this properly.

We will be fair, and we will only consider
what we hear here at this trial."

You have to wonder
if they-- if they stuck to their word.

[woman] Do you ever have regrets
that you didn't show them the tapes?

I do have regrets that the jury
never got to see this tape.

I have a lot of regrets
because this was a wrongful conviction.

[Mitzelfeld] I'll tell you, I don't know
whether he did it on purpose or not.

My concern is whether he got a fair trial.

At the time of sentencing,

Judge Colombo had some
introductory comments that were,

for those of us in the audience,
particularly myself, pretty disturbing.

I tried very hard to try this case
as fairly as any case I've ever tried.

I said, "Hey, look closely at this case."
I made a lot of rulings on this case.

I think I followed the law.

I think I've been fair,
but look at the case.

And here's what he said.

"Sentencing in this case has bothered me

ever since the jury
returned its verdict...

only because I don't know

that the defendant is guilty of the crimes
of which he has been found guilty.

That does not mean
that I believe that he is innocent.

I just do not know.

I think it's only human
to want to know that a person is guilty

before you give the harshest sentence
authorized in this state."

[Mitzelfeld] You're faced
with the specter of a judge

sentencing an individual to five terms
of life in prison without parole,

and he's not sure the defendant is guilty.

[crickets chirping]

[DeLisle] I've always been hypercritical
of myself,

which is why I've always accepted
responsibility for the accident.

Because that's what it was,
a tragic accident.

I should have been a better mechanic.
I should have learned how to swim.

There are lots of things
I should have done.

But it was the circumstances
that surrounded

the inability to control the vehicle
in that seven seconds

to bring it to a full stop.

I mean, everything in there
reflects back to me...

and the car.

So who are you going to blame?

An inanimate object or a person
that you can put away for life...

even though he didn't do it on purpose?

And here I am, still stuck,
27 years later.

♪ If you're lonely ♪

♪ Waiting for a kiss ♪

♪ And you think of ♪

♪ All the loving ♪

♪ That you miss ♪