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Now, my understanding, Hamid,is that you attended some camps.
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Bring me up to speed a little bit.
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Um, you mean what kind of camp were they?
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-Yes.-They were like training camps.
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How many people discussedor talked about being martyrs?
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-Murders?-Martyrs.
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How many people talked aboutbeing suicide bombers?
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Oh, none of them were like suicide bombersover there, what I would see.
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I need you to tell me detailsabout targets, what they said,
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and this is where I need your memoryto come back.
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They said that you haveto go to America for jihad.
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[Hamid] I said, "Okay, I will."
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[man] Regrettably, we are not immunefrom the threat
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of homegrown jihadist cells.
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The government took the position
after 9/11...
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that they were going to do
everything and anything to prevent
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any kind of terrorist act
here on US soil.
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[Bush] The bill before me will helplaw enforcement to identify,
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to disrupt,
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and to punish terroristsbefore they strike.
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[gunfire]
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[man] This was not a case about a building
that was blown up,
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where forensic investigators
collect physical evidence.
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Material support for terrorism
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requires that you get inside
the defendant's mind.
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[man 2]
Hamid admitted that he had, in fact,
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attended a jihadist training camp
in Pakistan.
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He also confirmed that the camp
was run by Al-Qaeda operatives
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and that they were being trained
on how to kill Americans.
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[rapid gunfire]
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[man] What we had was evidencethat he had traveled to Pakistan,
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gone to a jihadi camp,
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and that he had come backwith the intention
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of committing some act of violence.
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[bicycle bell dings]
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[ice cream truck music plays]
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[indistinct dialogue]
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[speaking Arabic]
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[man] Lodi in central California,
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you know, it's a small town,
historically a farming town.
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Everyone kind of knew each other.
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Pakistani farmers
working with Latino farmers.
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I mean, everyone kind of just,
you know, got along.
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A lot of folks at that mosque
were from the same village.
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They knew each other for a long time,
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and that was kind of the center
of the community,
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kind of the social, spiritual center.
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After 9/11, you saw talk of,
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"There's sleeper cells around America
waiting to be activated."
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Some in the government thought
that there was going to be
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a terrorist training camp
right in the middle of rural Lodi,
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next to a church
and next to the community.
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[train horn blares]
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[man] The government was
getting tough on terrorism,
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and so there was pressure
on the Bureau to--
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the Department of Justice to bring a case.
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The Sacramento office had
a surveillance team down in Lodi.
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My understanding is they had an informant,
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and the informant told them
that he attended mosque in Lodi
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and he had observed Ayman al-Zawahiri
in the Lodi area.
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Zawahiri is Bin Laden's number two man.
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And so the fact that the informant was
reporting that Zawahiri was here in Lodi,
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in California, was remarkable.
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And that was the basis
for their undercover operation.
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[man] Hello. Testing, testing, testing.Hello, hello, hello.
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Testing.
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Today is March 2003.
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I am going to the second meetingwith Imam Shabbir.
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Begin recording now.
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[Basim]
A government informant, Naseem Khan,
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worked at K-Market convenience store,
making $7 an hour.
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All of a sudden,
he's now employed by the FBI.
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He was housed at an apartment
right behind the mosque.
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So he was there on a regular basis,
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interacted with the community.
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His cover was the computer IT guy,
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and so pretty much he was going around
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helping everyone
with their computer issues.
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He was looking to the imams.
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Naseem Khan started to realize
the imams, there's nothing on them,
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there's no case against them.
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But there was this young man, Hamid Hayat,
who kind of just ran his mouth.
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He portrayed himself as a radical,
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and so the focus turned to him.
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That was the beginning
of the whole ordeal.
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[woman] They said that Hamid
was a jihadist.
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This is Hamid as well.
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They thought we're gonna have guns,
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bombs, knives,
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but we're a normal family
living here in America.
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This is Hamid
when he was just three years old.
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Hamid...
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Growing up with him was really fun.
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He was the brother
that always took my side.
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We used to watch wrestling.
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Then we would always get together
in the garage,
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my cousin, my dad, my brothers,
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and we would just lay down anywhere
and watch the wrestling together.
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He wasn't a big, strong person.
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He was really skinny
because of the meningitis.
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Meningitis is a brain infection
that he got when he was young.
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He got it in Pakistan.
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So that affected him a lot
through his personality
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because as he was growing up,
he became more and more like a kid.
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After the meningitis,
he didn't want to go out of the house.
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He wouldn't focus on school.
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He wanted to play more video games,
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just stay at home most of the time.
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[birds chirping]
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Naseem Khan,
he was my brother's best friend.
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He told my mom he doesn't have a mother.
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So because of that,
she treated him closely, as her own child.
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He had really nice cars.
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[laughs] Hamid was like, "What kind
of friend do I have with nice cars?"
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[Basim] Hamid was kind of a loser.
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Like, he didn't really hang out
with any other kids.
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All of a sudden, this really cool guy,
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ten years his senior,
started paying a lot of attention to him.
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I mean, Naseem Khan gave Hamid
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the attention that he craved
that he wouldn't get from anyone else.
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[man] Because Mr. Khan
was an undercover informant,
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the nature of his relationship
with Mr. Hayat was that they were buddies.
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It began with the statements
that Mr. Hayat made to Naseem Khan
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about his admiration and, um...
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delight, really, in some of the activities
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of some of the most violent jihadi groups
in Pakistan.
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00:08:55,910 --> 00:09:01,370
He spoke to Mr. Khan about the murder
and mutilation of Daniel Pearl...
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00:09:04,502 --> 00:09:07,052
and talked about what a good job that was
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00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:10,797
and how they would never be able
to send Jews to Pakistan anymore.
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00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:19,676
[Naseem in Arabic]
I'm going to fight for jihad.
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00:09:20,977 --> 00:09:22,807
You don't believe me, do you?
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[Hamid in Arabic] Why can't we go?
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It's our duty as Muslimsto go and help other Muslims.
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[Naseem] When we go for training,we will go to Mansehra, right?
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[Hamid in English] That's up to you.You wanna go to Mansehra, go.
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[Naseem] Okay, okay, okay.
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[Hamid in Arabic] The biggesttraining camp of all is in Kashmir.
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[Naseem in Arabic]
Have you seen this place?
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-[Hamid] I've seen a video of it.
-[Naseem] You've seen a video of it.
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If one goes for jihad, go to the onein Afghanistan, or to the one in Iraq?
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[Hamid] Anywhere in the worldwhere Muslims are attacked.
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Jihad is the duty of every Muslim.
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00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,070
[horns honking]
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In April, 2003,
we went to Pakistan as a whole family.
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00:10:20,995 --> 00:10:23,535
We went to Pakistan
for my sister's wedding
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and to look for a bride for Hamid as well.
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00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:28,130
[praying in Arabic]
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[Raheela] My mom found a bride for Hamid
in our village, Behboodi.
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So everyone was really happy.
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[man] After the actual wedding day,
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we did joke around. I'm like,
"Hey, so was your, you know, wedding?"
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He goes... He was like,
"Dude, it was better than I expected.
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Beyond my expectations."
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[gunshots]
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In Pakistan, it's a tradition, you know,
when somebody gets engaged,
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we shoot guns.
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00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:02,660
[gunshot, cheers]
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00:11:02,745 --> 00:11:05,035
We told him, "Hey, it's your wedding day.
You should shoot."
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00:11:05,122 --> 00:11:07,462
He's like, "No, no, no.
I'm too scared," you know.
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00:11:07,541 --> 00:11:10,801
"What if it goes up and it comes back down
and hits me in the head
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00:11:10,878 --> 00:11:11,838
or something like that?"
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00:11:13,631 --> 00:11:16,551
He would act like he was,
like, a bold person,
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00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:18,974
like a big shot, but he wasn't in reality.
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00:11:19,845 --> 00:11:21,845
He was a bit of a storyteller, yeah.
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If he would meet somebody new,
Hamid's like,
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00:11:24,975 --> 00:11:29,225
"Oh, yeah. My dad, you know, he owns
Kmart and all these stores in Lodi,"
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and we were like,
"Why would you even tell them that?"
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He's like, "Don't worry about it." He just
wanted to be that person, you know?
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Before his wedding,
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his mom bought him a cell phone.
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[rings, vibrates]
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Naseem Khan,
he would constantly call and call.
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He would call, and Hamid would be
telling his mom, "Hey, you know,
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I'm not home right now. I'm sleeping,"
or something like that.
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One day, I think he was watching
a cricket match or was playing cricket.
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He left the match,
came home and broke his phone
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because he was like,
"Why did you give him my number?
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Because I'm tired of him.
He's not a good person."
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00:12:02,555 --> 00:12:04,005
[phone rings]
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00:12:04,098 --> 00:12:05,928
[Basim] The informant
was getting desperate.
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00:12:07,351 --> 00:12:09,351
Naseem Khan was calling
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00:12:09,895 --> 00:12:12,395
and trying to convince him
to go to a training camp.
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[rings, vibrates]
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00:12:16,569 --> 00:12:18,449
[continues ringing]
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[Naseem in Arabic] No, no, no vacation,man. You're sitting there in Pakistan.
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You told me, "I'm going to a camp."You're sitting idle.
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[Naseem in English] You're wasting time.
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00:12:32,877 --> 00:12:36,207
[Hamid in Arabic] And I can't do nothing,man. There's no choice, see?
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00:12:40,843 --> 00:12:44,013
[Naseem] God willing,when I come to Pakistan and I see you,
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00:12:44,096 --> 00:12:46,466
I'm gonna [bleep] force you,
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00:12:46,557 --> 00:12:49,687
get you from your throatand [bleep] throw you in the madrassa,
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00:12:49,769 --> 00:12:51,349
in your grandfather's madrassa.
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00:12:52,271 --> 00:12:55,111
-[Hamid] I'm not gonna go with that.
-[Naseem] Oh, yeah, you will go.
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00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:56,691
[Naseem] Yeah, you will go.
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Maybe I can't fight with you in America,
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but I can beat your ass in Pakistan,
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00:13:01,405 --> 00:13:03,405
so nobody's gonna come to your rescue.
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00:13:05,242 --> 00:13:08,952
[birds chirping]
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[Basim]
So in 2004, during that conversation
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00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:16,336
with Naseem Khan, the informant,
and Hamid,
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00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:20,966
you know, he threatens him
to go to a camp and--
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00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,260
or to get training, and then that was it.
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00:13:23,344 --> 00:13:25,684
After that contentious call,
they didn't speak after that.
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00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:33,810
The government had a theory
that he left his village of Behboodi,
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00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:37,324
took a bus to Balakot,
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00:13:40,402 --> 00:13:42,912
where supposedly he went to train
for six months.
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00:13:45,157 --> 00:13:47,157
[indistinct chatter]
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00:13:47,243 --> 00:13:49,333
[chanting]
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00:13:52,331 --> 00:13:55,631
And the FBI believed that his intent
was to come back to the United States
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00:13:55,709 --> 00:13:57,129
to attack our country.
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00:13:57,211 --> 00:14:00,591
[birds chirping]
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00:14:04,593 --> 00:14:06,143
[Raheela] After the wedding,
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00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:08,930
I spent two years with my family
in Pakistan.
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00:14:10,015 --> 00:14:13,475
My dad was rebuilding our house
in our village in Behboodi.
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00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:19,938
[interviewer] Was there a moment
when Hamid could have slipped off
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00:14:20,025 --> 00:14:21,355
to go and train?
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00:14:21,986 --> 00:14:25,526
No. He went to his friend's wedding,
to Multan for one week.
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00:14:25,614 --> 00:14:27,914
That's the whole period of time
that I haven't seen him
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00:14:27,992 --> 00:14:30,332
while we were there together
for two years.
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00:14:30,411 --> 00:14:33,461
But other than that, I mean,
he didn't go anywhere else.
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00:14:37,543 --> 00:14:40,713
Coming back in 2005 was the worst.
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00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:45,838
And they announced that there's someone
sitting here in this plane
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00:14:45,926 --> 00:14:50,176
that's very dangerous, so we have
to go back all the way to Japan.
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00:14:50,764 --> 00:14:53,734
When the plane was about to land in Tokyo,
225
00:14:53,809 --> 00:14:56,189
the air hostess came by and asked Hamid,
226
00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:58,060
"Are you guys the Hayat family?"
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00:14:59,648 --> 00:15:03,608
There was cameras flashing
and asking something that's in Japanese,
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00:15:03,694 --> 00:15:05,914
and Hamid was kind of angry,
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00:15:05,988 --> 00:15:08,198
like, "Why are they taking
pictures of us?"
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When we went inside,
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00:15:12,119 --> 00:15:14,329
there were these two FBI agents.
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00:15:14,413 --> 00:15:17,253
They were asking if they could
interview Hamid in a different room.
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00:15:19,585 --> 00:15:21,745
I was sitting down
with my mom and my sister,
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00:15:21,837 --> 00:15:23,417
and they're asking me,
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00:15:23,505 --> 00:15:25,295
"What were you guys doing in Pakistan?
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What kind of friends did Hamid have?
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00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:31,138
Were they tall? Were they big?
Did they have beards?"
238
00:15:32,097 --> 00:15:36,227
Hours later, they told us that
everything got cleared up for Hamid
239
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:38,810
and all of you can go back.
240
00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:46,703
Some days later, an FBI agent
came knocking on the door,
241
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:49,279
saying that they want to talk to Hamid.
242
00:15:50,658 --> 00:15:54,238
Little did we know that that was
the last day we were gonna spend together.
243
00:15:54,328 --> 00:15:56,828
Friday night was the last day
eating together,
244
00:15:57,706 --> 00:15:58,706
talking.
245
00:16:00,918 --> 00:16:02,668
And after that, we never seen him.
246
00:16:15,641 --> 00:16:20,101
[man] Lots of Muslims in the world do haveissues with the United States right now,
247
00:16:20,187 --> 00:16:21,357
and that's okay.
248
00:16:21,438 --> 00:16:23,018
It's not a bad thing.
249
00:16:23,107 --> 00:16:25,277
You're free to have those kinds of issues.
250
00:16:25,359 --> 00:16:28,649
You're free to explore... those thoughts.
251
00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:31,407
That's not--There's nothing illegal about that.
252
00:16:32,533 --> 00:16:33,663
Okay?
253
00:16:33,742 --> 00:16:36,912
And the old Hamid had issueswith the United States,
254
00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:39,616
and so I want the new Hamidto be honest with me...
255
00:16:40,374 --> 00:16:41,964
about the old Hamid.
256
00:16:43,002 --> 00:16:44,292
Does that make sense?
257
00:16:44,378 --> 00:16:46,798
-[indistinct]
-Okay.
258
00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:52,086
[man] Well, my take on this,
259
00:16:52,177 --> 00:16:55,717
I mean, one thing that's true
is that after 9/11,
260
00:16:55,806 --> 00:16:59,136
Robert Mueller said,
"I am gonna convert the FBI
261
00:16:59,226 --> 00:17:01,476
into a national security agency,"
262
00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:06,442
and I think that Sacramento thought
they had made the big-time.
263
00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:12,363
[man] To quickly recap,
264
00:17:13,282 --> 00:17:17,912
he was interrogated in Japan
on his way back to the United States...
265
00:17:19,371 --> 00:17:21,751
[Basim] And then he voluntarily agreed
to go to the FBI office
266
00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:23,752
where he was questioned and he denied.
267
00:17:24,752 --> 00:17:27,802
You know, this is his third time
being questioned about this.
268
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:32,930
But they did not record all the times
he denied going to training camp.
269
00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:35,680
It wasn't till much later,
after a long interrogation,
270
00:17:35,763 --> 00:17:37,433
that they started recording.
271
00:17:38,849 --> 00:17:43,149
[Dennis] In the interrogations,
you see certain tactics being used.
272
00:17:43,228 --> 00:17:45,478
One is, in this case,
273
00:17:45,981 --> 00:17:47,361
saying to Hamid Hayat,
274
00:17:47,441 --> 00:17:50,691
"How would you explain
that we have aerial surveillance
275
00:17:50,778 --> 00:17:52,988
showing you that you're in a camp,"
276
00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,162
which was false.
277
00:17:54,656 --> 00:17:56,736
[man]
Look, we know and we see a lot of things.
278
00:17:56,825 --> 00:17:58,825
As has probably been explained to you,
279
00:17:58,911 --> 00:18:01,411
we have satellite imageryand all sorts of other things
280
00:18:01,497 --> 00:18:03,617
that give us an ideaof things that are going on.
281
00:18:03,707 --> 00:18:06,917
So you're in campfor three to four months?
282
00:18:07,002 --> 00:18:08,802
-Is that--
-[Hamid] Yeah, something like that.
283
00:18:08,879 --> 00:18:10,919
I thought you guys had informationlike that.
284
00:18:11,006 --> 00:18:11,916
[man] Okay.
285
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:15,759
[Dennis] Once they broke him with,
286
00:18:15,844 --> 00:18:18,104
"Oh, we have photographs of you
in the camp,"
287
00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:19,600
you know, the bullshit started,
288
00:18:19,681 --> 00:18:22,521
and he thought that he would go home
at the end of the session.
289
00:18:27,856 --> 00:18:30,026
[man] Most of the camps,you have weapons training,
290
00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:32,439
you have explosives training.
291
00:18:32,528 --> 00:18:33,778
[Hamid] Over there in the camps?
292
00:18:33,862 --> 00:18:36,282
[man] And you-- They do karate or--
293
00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:39,832
I didn't see no karate over there.That's the thing I was thinking.
294
00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:43,410
I was going to tell you, but I forgot.I didn't see no karate over there, sir.
295
00:18:43,747 --> 00:18:46,827
[man]
Did you run? Like run or jog or work out?
296
00:18:46,917 --> 00:18:50,087
Jogging, like running, yeah.I told you, sir, jogging, you know.
297
00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:54,550
Looking at my body, they knew thathe's not that tough or anything like that,
298
00:18:54,633 --> 00:18:56,593
-any big thing like that so...-So...
299
00:18:56,677 --> 00:18:59,047
Um, and then different kindsof weapons training.
300
00:18:59,138 --> 00:19:01,268
They have a varietyof different kinds of weapons.
301
00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:03,348
Yeah, I got to do the pistol. That's it.
302
00:19:03,433 --> 00:19:04,563
So you did pistol training--
303
00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:07,063
I did it. I'm not good at it, either.When I do it,
304
00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:09,896
"You're not doing it right. You haveto do this, do that." It's like...
305
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,030
-Do you remember what kind of gun it was?-No. It was a black one.
306
00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:15,201
I can remember the color,
307
00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:18,069
but I don't remember what the name wasor anything like that.
308
00:19:18,198 --> 00:19:19,868
So you take how many shots?
309
00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:22,079
I think I took, like, three or four shots.
310
00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:24,041
Three or four shots. Did you reload?
311
00:19:24,121 --> 00:19:26,331
-Because normally---I didn't know how to reload it.
312
00:19:26,415 --> 00:19:27,245
I didn't...
313
00:19:27,332 --> 00:19:29,332
I mean, I'm sure in three, four months,
314
00:19:29,418 --> 00:19:31,798
three and a half, four months,they teach you how to reload.
315
00:19:31,879 --> 00:19:35,919
The thing is, they put, like,bullets in there for us up there.
316
00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:38,678
Not in the thing. Up there.
317
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,720
Oh, one at a time?
318
00:19:39,803 --> 00:19:42,563
-One at a time, yeah, like that.-Okay.
319
00:19:42,639 --> 00:19:44,889
You know, they grew frustrated afterward
320
00:19:44,975 --> 00:19:46,725
'cause he was saying yes to everything,
321
00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:50,770
so it showed that, you know,
he was just making stuff up.
322
00:19:51,982 --> 00:19:53,192
It just...
323
00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:54,855
The stories were so far-fetched
324
00:19:54,943 --> 00:19:57,203
that anyone who heard them
would just start laughing.
325
00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,409
[man] Tell me about rifle training.There's--
326
00:19:59,489 --> 00:20:01,489
Oh, rifle training is very hard, sir.
327
00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:03,789
They made me stand over there,
328
00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:06,409
and I said I barely couldn't pick it up'cause it's very heavy.
329
00:20:06,496 --> 00:20:07,746
I'm skinny, you know.
330
00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:11,166
They said, "You can't shoot that again'cause you don't have that much power."
331
00:20:11,251 --> 00:20:14,171
And I was thinking, "God, that..."You know, I don't want to do that again.
332
00:20:16,006 --> 00:20:18,586
How many times can you go back
333
00:20:18,675 --> 00:20:21,345
before they send you out for jihad?
334
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,970
Do they have, like, you have to be herefor so much training
335
00:20:25,057 --> 00:20:26,927
before you go to jihad or...
336
00:20:27,017 --> 00:20:30,557
[yawning] I think so, for six months,seven months...
337
00:20:30,646 --> 00:20:32,646
[man] Six or seven months.So you were getting close.
338
00:20:32,731 --> 00:20:35,821
Yeah, like that, but, you know, I didn'tget trained that much or anything.
339
00:20:35,901 --> 00:20:38,821
They were using me, like,for the kitchen and the cooking,
340
00:20:38,904 --> 00:20:40,614
but I don't know how to cookor anything.
341
00:20:40,697 --> 00:20:42,817
You don't know how to cook?Did you learn?
342
00:20:42,908 --> 00:20:43,778
-No, I---No?
343
00:20:43,867 --> 00:20:45,787
I was washing vegetablesand everything like that.
344
00:20:45,869 --> 00:20:46,909
Oh, okay.
345
00:20:48,163 --> 00:20:51,293
Hamid tells the FBI that he shot it so bad
346
00:20:51,375 --> 00:20:54,085
that they never allowed him
to shoot again,
347
00:20:54,628 --> 00:20:57,378
and they put him in the kitchen
to help cook and all that
348
00:20:57,464 --> 00:20:59,094
because he's a lousy shot.
349
00:21:00,634 --> 00:21:03,224
The agents asked him, you know,
whether or not--
350
00:21:03,303 --> 00:21:06,103
how he was going to
receive his marching orders,
351
00:21:06,181 --> 00:21:07,181
whether to...
352
00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:10,311
blow something up or something else.
353
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,350
You came to the United States,
354
00:21:12,437 --> 00:21:15,107
you've got to go to jihad, and...
355
00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:17,864
you left with marching orders.
356
00:21:17,943 --> 00:21:19,363
-What's that?-You know what that is?
357
00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:22,034
-No.-Here's what your mission is, what you do.
358
00:21:22,698 --> 00:21:24,618
So, what did they want you to do?
359
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,240
They didn't tell me nothing.They say you can go right now,
360
00:21:27,327 --> 00:21:29,367
and if we need you or anything,they'll let me know.
361
00:21:29,621 --> 00:21:31,041
Who was gonna tell you?
362
00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:33,543
'Cause they're not...Are they gonna call you up from Pakistan?
363
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:35,035
I don't think so. I think somebody--
364
00:21:35,127 --> 00:21:37,127
Maybe send a letter or anything like that,maybe.
365
00:21:37,212 --> 00:21:38,712
I don't think they'll send a letter.
366
00:21:38,797 --> 00:21:42,877
His answer is that he thought
maybe they'd send him a letter.
367
00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:46,219
I mean, that just has to give you...
368
00:21:47,139 --> 00:21:48,889
his state of mind,
369
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:51,694
what he thinks he's involved in here.
370
00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:54,598
He was gonna get
some kind of certified letter
371
00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:57,188
delivered by
the United States Post Office?
372
00:21:58,025 --> 00:21:59,025
Absurd.
373
00:22:09,036 --> 00:22:11,656
This is all I'm trying to--That's all I'm trying to understand here
374
00:22:11,747 --> 00:22:12,827
is what they said.
375
00:22:12,914 --> 00:22:15,134
[Hamid] They saidthat you have to go to America for jihad.
376
00:22:15,208 --> 00:22:16,458
[man] Okay. To fight? Yeah.
377
00:22:16,543 --> 00:22:20,423
[Hamid] Yeah. America, you know, to fight.That's what they told.
378
00:22:20,505 --> 00:22:22,255
[man] To go to America to fight jihad?
379
00:22:22,382 --> 00:22:25,302
All right. That's all I'm trying to hear.
380
00:22:25,385 --> 00:22:28,345
That's all I want to hearis just what they said.
381
00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:29,390
All right.
382
00:22:29,473 --> 00:22:32,603
That night, for sure, he didn't understand
what was going on,
383
00:22:33,268 --> 00:22:37,268
and I don't think he ever really got it
384
00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:39,066
until he probably went to prison.
385
00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,488
So I come back here tomorrow again?
386
00:22:41,568 --> 00:22:43,608
No, you're not leaving here tonight, no.
387
00:22:43,695 --> 00:22:47,065
No, I mean tomorrow.I'm gonna be here tonight, staying here?
388
00:22:47,157 --> 00:22:49,987
-[man 1] No, you're gonna go to jail.-[man 2] You're going to jail.
389
00:22:50,077 --> 00:22:52,617
So do I get a place to sleepover there like that?
390
00:22:53,413 --> 00:22:54,793
It's jail, Hamid. You know that?
391
00:22:54,873 --> 00:22:58,293
I know it's a jail, but can I lay downbecause my head is hurting?
392
00:22:58,377 --> 00:23:01,877
I want to sleep. I'm just saying,will I come back here again tomorrow?
393
00:23:13,266 --> 00:23:14,346
[Raheela] On Monday,
394
00:23:15,102 --> 00:23:17,232
the FBI came to search our house.
395
00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:19,185
[phone rings]
396
00:23:19,272 --> 00:23:20,362
They had a search warrant.
397
00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:22,481
[continues ringing]
398
00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:25,817
They called on the house phone,
said, "Umer, open the door,"
399
00:23:25,904 --> 00:23:27,824
and, boom, the door opened.
400
00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:32,985
They pour into the house like
you know how an ant goes out of a hill?
401
00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:34,038
Like...
402
00:23:34,121 --> 00:23:36,041
Like that, with their guns drawn.
403
00:23:37,457 --> 00:23:39,037
I was sitting on the sofa,
404
00:23:39,376 --> 00:23:42,666
and I was crying because they had
the gun held to my mom's head.
405
00:23:42,754 --> 00:23:45,884
I thought they're gonna shoot her.
She's gonna die right there on the scene.
406
00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:49,215
And they had a gun pointed right here
to my head right here as well.
407
00:23:53,098 --> 00:23:55,388
And they said,
"Go stand next to your mom."
408
00:23:55,684 --> 00:23:58,354
And they shattered
everything in the house.
409
00:23:58,437 --> 00:24:00,437
[glass shattering]
410
00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:04,025
[camera clicking]
411
00:24:07,988 --> 00:24:11,028
[David] In his scrapbook
that was found in his home,
412
00:24:11,533 --> 00:24:14,833
he collected articles
about political parties
413
00:24:14,911 --> 00:24:18,621
and other political groups
that were devoted to violent jihad.
414
00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:24,384
Assuming that Mr. Hayat
truly had gone for jihadi training,
415
00:24:24,463 --> 00:24:26,593
and assuming that he came back here
416
00:24:26,673 --> 00:24:30,723
with the intention of awaiting direction
to commit some act of violence,
417
00:24:30,802 --> 00:24:32,182
that's dangerous.
418
00:24:32,262 --> 00:24:36,432
And we'll never know exactly
what the danger was,
419
00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:41,186
but that's part of preemptive prosecution
is that you cut that off,
420
00:24:41,271 --> 00:24:42,481
rather than waiting.
421
00:24:42,564 --> 00:24:44,984
The traditional approach to these things
422
00:24:45,066 --> 00:24:49,486
had been to wait to see specifically
what risk was being posed,
423
00:24:50,071 --> 00:24:52,571
but the additional risk that you accept
when you do that
424
00:24:52,657 --> 00:24:55,327
is you might not be able to stop it
before it happens.
425
00:25:00,957 --> 00:25:04,587
Well, a suspect, Hamid Hayat, is duein federal court in Sacramento.
426
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:07,799
A judge will determine whetherhe is a danger to the community.
427
00:25:07,881 --> 00:25:10,801
Meantime, some of his family memberssay they are under surveillance
428
00:25:10,884 --> 00:25:13,304
and are being askedto take lie detector tests.
429
00:25:14,221 --> 00:25:17,521
[Basim] Many journalists who were sitting
in the audience were in shock.
430
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,519
They were like,
"This is a scary day for America."
431
00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:23,396
In this climate of fear,
432
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,110
they're gonna go after individuals
who might have inclination
433
00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:29,192
towards radical ideas.
434
00:25:29,569 --> 00:25:31,109
They never committed a crime.
435
00:25:32,322 --> 00:25:35,622
They said, "This is a new era we're
heading into," and sure enough, it was.
436
00:25:38,662 --> 00:25:40,832
One of the most important
pieces of evidence
437
00:25:41,248 --> 00:25:42,788
was a piece of paper in his wallet
438
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:46,630
at the time that he traveled to Pakistan.
It was called the ta'wiz.
439
00:25:47,462 --> 00:25:49,882
It's a supplication in Arabic
440
00:25:50,257 --> 00:25:53,757
that spoke about, "Oh, Allah, we place you
at the throats of our enemies."
441
00:25:55,637 --> 00:25:58,267
And the experts who testified at trial
442
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,600
talked about the fact
that this was something
443
00:26:00,684 --> 00:26:02,524
that would be carried by a person
444
00:26:02,602 --> 00:26:05,482
who expected to go into battle
against an enemy.
445
00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:06,984
It would also be something
446
00:26:07,065 --> 00:26:10,275
that if it were found on his body
if he were to perish,
447
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,400
that it would identify him as a martyr.
448
00:26:15,699 --> 00:26:17,079
So all of those facts
449
00:26:17,158 --> 00:26:19,578
all were evidence
that was presented to the jury
450
00:26:19,661 --> 00:26:23,791
as something that was evidence
of his intent to commit violence.
451
00:26:28,044 --> 00:26:31,384
You know, this is the note that
the government called "the throat note,"
452
00:26:31,464 --> 00:26:37,054
and, you know, in a book that
almost every Muslim household has,
453
00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:39,009
Riyâd-us-Sâliheen,
454
00:26:39,514 --> 00:26:42,104
under
The Book of Etiquette of Travelling,
455
00:26:42,183 --> 00:26:44,193
"Supplication If One Fears Harm."
456
00:26:44,686 --> 00:26:47,556
This prayer,
it's under the chapter of travel.
457
00:26:50,066 --> 00:26:52,776
A prayer that Muslims use
for protection in travel
458
00:26:52,861 --> 00:26:54,701
all of a sudden is being weaponized,
459
00:26:54,779 --> 00:26:57,869
that this is a jihadi prayer for war.
460
00:26:58,408 --> 00:27:01,868
I mean, it was just one scary thing
after the other for our community.
461
00:27:02,746 --> 00:27:05,956
And a lot of people were afraid, too.
Afraid to speak about this case.
462
00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:08,841
A lot of people were afraid to come
forward and to show support for him.
463
00:27:12,922 --> 00:27:14,052
Ready to go.
464
00:27:14,841 --> 00:27:17,221
[reporter] How do you feel about
the jury selection yesterday?
465
00:27:17,427 --> 00:27:18,797
I feel good about the jury.
466
00:27:19,512 --> 00:27:22,182
I'm confident
that they'll make the right decision.
467
00:27:24,017 --> 00:27:25,637
[Dennis] Wazhma Mojaddidi.
468
00:27:25,727 --> 00:27:30,767
My impression of her was that
she was passionate about this case,
469
00:27:31,274 --> 00:27:33,324
felt it was a grave injustice,
470
00:27:33,777 --> 00:27:37,237
and absolutely convinced
of her client's innocence.
471
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,240
Wazhma saw the confession
as the evidence, okay?
472
00:27:43,328 --> 00:27:45,078
It was... It was...
473
00:27:46,247 --> 00:27:48,627
unequivocal. It was the government's case.
474
00:27:51,628 --> 00:27:53,798
But she considered it weak evidence
475
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,260
because it seemed
so discombobulated to her.
476
00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,719
[man] You're all over the map here, yeah,
477
00:27:59,803 --> 00:28:02,683
and you're not helping yourselfby doing that. Yeah.
478
00:28:02,764 --> 00:28:05,394
[Hamid] I'll say Balakot.That's the first thing I'll say.
479
00:28:05,475 --> 00:28:08,345
-Where's the camp, Hamid?-That's what I'm trying to say to you.
480
00:28:08,436 --> 00:28:13,066
The camp will be in Elaqa Ghair,Tora Bora something or at Torkham.
481
00:28:13,566 --> 00:28:16,186
[man] Near Afghanistan?Bora Bora, are you talking about?
482
00:28:16,277 --> 00:28:18,567
This is the place where you were,where you trained.
483
00:28:18,655 --> 00:28:21,115
You were there for six months.You know where it is.
484
00:28:21,199 --> 00:28:24,289
[Hamid] The final thing I'll say,it was in Afghanistan.
485
00:28:24,661 --> 00:28:27,871
[man] Now you're in Afghanistan?We're not playing a game here.
486
00:28:28,623 --> 00:28:32,253
This is at the heels
of a four-year undercover operation.
487
00:28:33,378 --> 00:28:38,508
So I was expecting
that the agents would have known
488
00:28:38,591 --> 00:28:44,141
or would have had some verification
where a camp was.
489
00:28:44,597 --> 00:28:47,017
It brings to mind that something's wrong
490
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:51,480
and you need to try to corroborate
what in fact happened.
491
00:28:58,778 --> 00:29:01,948
I don't believe that there was an effort
492
00:29:02,031 --> 00:29:05,291
to investigate Mr. Hayat
while he was in Pakistan.
493
00:29:07,912 --> 00:29:13,962
But there were at least six times
that Mr. Hayat mentioned Balakot.
494
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:17,629
So there were satellite photos
that we were able to use
495
00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:19,264
from the Department of Defense,
496
00:29:19,340 --> 00:29:24,050
and these were commercial-quality versions
of photographs taken from satellites.
497
00:29:26,139 --> 00:29:28,849
The FBI has a major office in Islamabad.
498
00:29:28,933 --> 00:29:33,103
They've been arresting people
related to 9/11 all over Pakistan.
499
00:29:33,188 --> 00:29:35,858
They've got CIA and FBI in Pakistan,
500
00:29:36,191 --> 00:29:41,151
and this supposed camp
is a drive up a road from Islamabad.
501
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:45,950
They say the camp's at Balakot.
502
00:29:46,367 --> 00:29:50,117
And look at this case. Look at
its importance and so forth and so on.
503
00:29:50,455 --> 00:29:54,665
They didn't drive up the road
to see if it was there.
504
00:29:54,751 --> 00:29:56,211
Why didn't they do that?
505
00:29:56,294 --> 00:30:00,384
I submit to you it's 'cause they know
there was no functioning camp.
506
00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:05,264
[James] What is incredible to me
507
00:30:05,345 --> 00:30:10,595
was that the government really thought
that Hamid was such a terrorist
508
00:30:11,142 --> 00:30:14,482
that they would have done more
to corroborate
509
00:30:14,562 --> 00:30:17,402
and document what he was doing.
510
00:30:17,899 --> 00:30:19,729
Did he go to a terrorism camp?
511
00:30:19,818 --> 00:30:22,898
You know, that was a question
they never really answered.
512
00:30:26,199 --> 00:30:30,119
[Dennis] What the expert says is,
"Okay, here's four photographs."
513
00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:33,579
Well, they've got some buildings there.
514
00:30:35,416 --> 00:30:38,376
There's a 50% chance
that it's a militant camp,
515
00:30:38,461 --> 00:30:43,721
and there's a 50% chance
that it's a Pakistani military facility.
516
00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:45,931
That's nothing.
517
00:30:47,136 --> 00:30:51,096
If you say that something
is either an apple or an orange,
518
00:30:51,182 --> 00:30:55,352
equally, you haven't offered any proof
that it's an apple or that it's an orange.
519
00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:06,735
But the government doesn't offer
any photographs
520
00:31:06,823 --> 00:31:11,703
that positively show people
training with rifles on the ground,
521
00:31:11,786 --> 00:31:14,656
I mean, with sufficient detail
that you can detect that.
522
00:31:16,291 --> 00:31:21,341
Any good lawyer would have
pressed the government on this point.
523
00:31:21,421 --> 00:31:23,171
"Let's see all the photographs."
524
00:31:24,048 --> 00:31:25,548
But in order to do that,
525
00:31:25,633 --> 00:31:28,263
you have to have what's called
the security clearance,
526
00:31:28,595 --> 00:31:32,805
and Wazhma Mojaddidi
never got a security clearance.
527
00:31:34,851 --> 00:31:38,611
The fact that the government
never investigated the camp
528
00:31:39,147 --> 00:31:41,977
was not something that the jury heard,
529
00:31:42,066 --> 00:31:43,646
which we now know is true,
530
00:31:43,735 --> 00:31:46,275
and it's because
she didn't get a security clearance.
531
00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:02,630
[David]
I don't know why the defense attorney
532
00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:06,802
in the Hayat case
chose not to receive a clearance.
533
00:32:07,175 --> 00:32:10,255
I know that in the years
I've been a defense attorney
534
00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:13,345
since I left the government,
I've been cleared in cases,
535
00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:17,851
and I've considered it important to
review the information that's classified
536
00:32:17,936 --> 00:32:21,516
that's provided to me to make sure
that there's nothing there...
537
00:32:22,231 --> 00:32:25,991
that would assist my client
or contradict the Government's case.
538
00:32:28,738 --> 00:32:31,158
[man] Why did you ultimately decide
539
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,660
that you didn't need
to obtain a clearance?
540
00:32:36,454 --> 00:32:37,504
Um...
541
00:32:39,666 --> 00:32:40,996
[sighs, chuckles]
542
00:32:45,505 --> 00:32:48,085
I don't honestly remember right now.
543
00:32:48,841 --> 00:32:50,261
But at the time,
544
00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:55,519
the strategy seemed sound and rational...
545
00:32:56,724 --> 00:32:58,064
and it made sense.
546
00:33:01,938 --> 00:33:04,478
[Dennis] This is a lawyer who had
never tried a case before,
547
00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:06,775
was two or three years out of law school.
548
00:33:07,860 --> 00:33:11,610
This is a case that needed a lawyer
who had done a hundred trials.
549
00:33:12,824 --> 00:33:17,704
The government had four highly-skilled,
highly-trained lawyers
550
00:33:17,787 --> 00:33:19,577
on the prosecution side.
551
00:33:19,914 --> 00:33:24,294
It's just a punch in the face,
you know,
552
00:33:24,711 --> 00:33:30,381
to think of a lawyer with no experience
attempting to defend this case.
553
00:33:31,426 --> 00:33:32,636
Her heart was in it,
554
00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:39,428
but, frankly, there was a kind of hubris
and ambition that blinded her.
555
00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:42,851
She said that she had to learn on the job.
556
00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:47,146
When somebody's facing, you know,
the rest of their life in prison,
557
00:33:47,233 --> 00:33:50,823
you don't have a lawyer who has to learn
on the job in order to defend them.
558
00:33:50,903 --> 00:33:52,243
And those are her words.
559
00:33:53,114 --> 00:33:55,414
[man] What was your thinking on...
560
00:33:56,576 --> 00:34:01,496
why you were qualified to represent Hamid
in this very serious case?
561
00:34:02,498 --> 00:34:04,828
I thought that it could work.
562
00:34:04,917 --> 00:34:10,047
I thought that-- I mean, even though
I had never been in a criminal courtroom,
563
00:34:10,131 --> 00:34:11,631
I felt comfortable in the courtroom.
564
00:34:11,716 --> 00:34:13,586
I thought it was something I could handle
565
00:34:13,676 --> 00:34:18,886
if I had some guidance
on just the procedural stuff.
566
00:34:19,223 --> 00:34:21,983
Uh, and I was willing to learn it.
567
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:24,770
I was willing to get in and... do it.
568
00:34:36,407 --> 00:34:38,487
[reporter] The newsjust out of federal court today,
569
00:34:38,576 --> 00:34:44,166
Hamid Hayat has been sentencedto 24 years in a federal penitentiary.
570
00:34:44,499 --> 00:34:47,959
[Wazhma] Hamid Hayat never attended
a terrorist training camp.
571
00:34:48,461 --> 00:34:50,881
This fight is definitely not over.
572
00:34:50,963 --> 00:34:53,473
There will be a motion for a new trial,
573
00:34:53,549 --> 00:34:58,889
and ultimately, Hamid Hayat
will be proven innocent, as he is.
574
00:34:58,971 --> 00:35:01,221
It is my hope that any others out there
575
00:35:01,307 --> 00:35:04,597
contemplating taking the path
chosen by Hamid Hayat
576
00:35:04,685 --> 00:35:06,765
will see this sentence as a wake-up call
577
00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:09,154
and change their course
to a more favorable one.
578
00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:17,906
They really sent a dangerous message to...
to not just the American Muslim community,
579
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:20,990
but the future of our democracy
and the rule of law.
580
00:35:22,745 --> 00:35:23,955
They knew he was innocent,
581
00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:27,248
but they were afraid
if he does do something,
582
00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:29,003
how could we live with ourselves?
583
00:35:29,377 --> 00:35:32,207
But for American Muslims
in a post-9/11 climate,
584
00:35:32,296 --> 00:35:33,836
you get a different type of justice.
585
00:35:33,923 --> 00:35:36,803
And the bar-- beyond a reasonable doubt--
586
00:35:37,677 --> 00:35:40,137
we lower it to just the minimum,
587
00:35:40,221 --> 00:35:43,521
just even the idea that
someone might do something.
588
00:35:53,901 --> 00:35:55,901
[Raheela]
In the beginning, we didn't know
589
00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:57,735
who did all of this.
590
00:35:57,822 --> 00:35:59,822
We didn't know the person, so...
591
00:36:00,533 --> 00:36:03,333
When they brought Naseem Khan
inside the court,
592
00:36:03,411 --> 00:36:08,421
telling Hamid and our family members
this is the guy who was after Hamid,
593
00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:10,749
we were like,
"How could he do this to us?"
594
00:36:12,295 --> 00:36:14,205
It was literally like an earthquake
595
00:36:14,297 --> 00:36:16,467
because my mom treated him as a son.
596
00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:18,511
They felt very heartbroken.
597
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,480
[James] The FBI let this guy,
this informant,
598
00:36:27,268 --> 00:36:30,098
getting paid $235,000,
599
00:36:30,855 --> 00:36:35,815
you know, who before that
was just working in a 7-Eleven,
600
00:36:35,902 --> 00:36:37,362
you know, at a cash register.
601
00:36:38,696 --> 00:36:43,276
And then not to pick up
the aggressive nature
602
00:36:43,367 --> 00:36:48,537
of his conversations with this
18, 19-year-old kid,
603
00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:51,752
that kind of behavior is not acceptable.
604
00:36:52,501 --> 00:36:53,961
You know, it blew my mind.
605
00:36:54,795 --> 00:36:56,125
It still blows my mind.
606
00:37:15,983 --> 00:37:19,153
[woman]
I have chosen to conceal my identity today
607
00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:22,567
because this is a very painful subject
for me to talk about.
608
00:37:24,867 --> 00:37:29,117
Most of my community members
don't know about Naseem as my son.
609
00:37:30,915 --> 00:37:36,085
I personally am very humiliated
to have to say that I'm the mother.
610
00:37:36,963 --> 00:37:38,973
Naseem is very, very clever.
611
00:37:39,048 --> 00:37:41,508
He was capable to say all kinds of things.
612
00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:44,510
He deceived his own mother...
613
00:37:45,179 --> 00:37:49,769
and was using the FBI and everyone else
that he came in contact with
614
00:37:49,850 --> 00:37:51,310
for his own gain.
615
00:37:53,104 --> 00:37:58,284
I truly feel very badly
for the Hayat family.
616
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,610
[door creaking]
617
00:38:05,741 --> 00:38:10,081
I have an obligation as a Muslim
to speak the truth,
618
00:38:11,163 --> 00:38:14,213
to give up any knowledge
that I have of a situation
619
00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:17,382
which will rectify an injustice.
620
00:38:21,674 --> 00:38:24,264
It was really hard
to see my parents like this.
621
00:38:28,014 --> 00:38:30,854
My mom, she's such a nice person.
622
00:38:31,517 --> 00:38:33,097
She loves everyone.
623
00:38:33,185 --> 00:38:37,105
And now when I look at her,
she's always sad, depressed, crying.
624
00:38:37,189 --> 00:38:39,189
She's always on medication now.
625
00:38:41,068 --> 00:38:45,238
Her first child,
all his happiness, just gone.
52344
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