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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,632 --> 00:00:11,932 Now, my understanding, Hamid, is that you attended some camps. 2 00:00:12,554 --> 00:00:14,314 Bring me up to speed a little bit. 3 00:00:14,389 --> 00:00:16,599 Um, you mean what kind of camp were they? 4 00:00:16,683 --> 00:00:20,193 -Yes. -They were like training camps. 5 00:00:26,860 --> 00:00:30,530 How many people discussed or talked about being martyrs? 6 00:00:30,613 --> 00:00:32,033 -Murders? -Martyrs. 7 00:00:32,115 --> 00:00:36,405 How many people talked about being suicide bombers? 8 00:00:36,494 --> 00:00:40,174 Oh, none of them were like suicide bombers over there, what I would see. 9 00:00:46,504 --> 00:00:51,634 I need you to tell me details about targets, what they said, 10 00:00:51,718 --> 00:00:54,548 and this is where I need your memory to come back. 11 00:00:54,888 --> 00:00:57,268 They said that you have to go to America for jihad. 12 00:00:58,725 --> 00:01:00,435 [Hamid] I said, "Okay, I will." 13 00:01:14,699 --> 00:01:17,789 [man] Regrettably, we are not immune from the threat 14 00:01:17,869 --> 00:01:20,159 of homegrown jihadist cells. 15 00:01:21,247 --> 00:01:24,037 The government took the position after 9/11... 16 00:01:24,918 --> 00:01:28,798 that they were going to do everything and anything to prevent 17 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,720 any kind of terrorist act here on US soil. 18 00:01:34,677 --> 00:01:37,307 [Bush] The bill before me will help law enforcement to identify, 19 00:01:37,931 --> 00:01:38,931 to disrupt, 20 00:01:39,682 --> 00:01:42,192 and to punish terrorists before they strike. 21 00:01:44,521 --> 00:01:48,071 [gunfire] 22 00:01:48,149 --> 00:01:50,989 [man] This was not a case about a building that was blown up, 23 00:01:51,069 --> 00:01:55,119 where forensic investigators collect physical evidence. 24 00:01:56,032 --> 00:01:58,372 Material support for terrorism 25 00:01:58,451 --> 00:02:02,041 requires that you get inside the defendant's mind. 26 00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:05,421 [man 2] Hamid admitted that he had, in fact, 27 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,800 attended a jihadist training camp in Pakistan. 28 00:02:09,170 --> 00:02:13,630 He also confirmed that the camp was run by Al-Qaeda operatives 29 00:02:13,716 --> 00:02:16,636 and that they were being trained on how to kill Americans. 30 00:02:16,719 --> 00:02:18,929 [rapid gunfire] 31 00:02:21,266 --> 00:02:25,846 [man] What we had was evidence that he had traveled to Pakistan, 32 00:02:25,937 --> 00:02:27,897 gone to a jihadi camp, 33 00:02:27,981 --> 00:02:30,151 and that he had come back with the intention 34 00:02:30,233 --> 00:02:32,193 of committing some act of violence. 35 00:02:41,953 --> 00:02:43,373 [bicycle bell dings] 36 00:02:45,415 --> 00:02:48,285 [ice cream truck music plays] 37 00:02:51,296 --> 00:02:54,506 [indistinct dialogue] 38 00:02:54,591 --> 00:02:58,091 [speaking Arabic] 39 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:06,564 [man] Lodi in central California, 40 00:03:06,644 --> 00:03:09,614 you know, it's a small town, historically a farming town. 41 00:03:10,899 --> 00:03:12,569 Everyone kind of knew each other. 42 00:03:13,276 --> 00:03:15,776 Pakistani farmers working with Latino farmers. 43 00:03:15,862 --> 00:03:18,112 I mean, everyone kind of just, you know, got along. 44 00:03:22,619 --> 00:03:24,539 A lot of folks at that mosque were from the same village. 45 00:03:24,621 --> 00:03:26,081 They knew each other for a long time, 46 00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:29,245 and that was kind of the center of the community, 47 00:03:29,334 --> 00:03:31,504 kind of the social, spiritual center. 48 00:03:33,087 --> 00:03:35,047 After 9/11, you saw talk of, 49 00:03:35,131 --> 00:03:38,261 "There's sleeper cells around America waiting to be activated." 50 00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:42,309 Some in the government thought that there was going to be 51 00:03:42,388 --> 00:03:46,978 a terrorist training camp right in the middle of rural Lodi, 52 00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:48,770 next to a church and next to the community. 53 00:03:48,853 --> 00:03:51,063 [train horn blares] 54 00:03:52,815 --> 00:03:55,525 [man] The government was getting tough on terrorism, 55 00:03:56,277 --> 00:03:59,987 and so there was pressure on the Bureau to-- 56 00:04:00,073 --> 00:04:02,413 the Department of Justice to bring a case. 57 00:04:07,288 --> 00:04:11,378 The Sacramento office had a surveillance team down in Lodi. 58 00:04:12,252 --> 00:04:14,382 My understanding is they had an informant, 59 00:04:15,755 --> 00:04:21,635 and the informant told them that he attended mosque in Lodi 60 00:04:21,719 --> 00:04:27,639 and he had observed Ayman al-Zawahiri in the Lodi area. 61 00:04:27,725 --> 00:04:30,805 Zawahiri is Bin Laden's number two man. 62 00:04:32,563 --> 00:04:37,993 And so the fact that the informant was reporting that Zawahiri was here in Lodi, 63 00:04:38,069 --> 00:04:41,069 in California, was remarkable. 64 00:04:43,783 --> 00:04:47,123 And that was the basis for their undercover operation. 65 00:04:48,413 --> 00:04:51,043 [man] Hello. Testing, testing, testing. Hello, hello, hello. 66 00:04:51,124 --> 00:04:52,004 Testing. 67 00:04:52,083 --> 00:04:55,633 Today is March 2003. 68 00:04:56,462 --> 00:05:00,972 I am going to the second meeting with Imam Shabbir. 69 00:05:02,343 --> 00:05:03,513 Begin recording now. 70 00:05:05,305 --> 00:05:07,465 [Basim] A government informant, Naseem Khan, 71 00:05:07,557 --> 00:05:11,227 worked at K-Market convenience store, making $7 an hour. 72 00:05:11,311 --> 00:05:14,561 All of a sudden, he's now employed by the FBI. 73 00:05:15,815 --> 00:05:18,935 He was housed at an apartment right behind the mosque. 74 00:05:19,819 --> 00:05:21,819 So he was there on a regular basis, 75 00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:23,655 interacted with the community. 76 00:05:24,157 --> 00:05:26,487 His cover was the computer IT guy, 77 00:05:26,576 --> 00:05:28,076 and so pretty much he was going around 78 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:30,331 helping everyone with their computer issues. 79 00:05:31,122 --> 00:05:33,252 He was looking to the imams. 80 00:05:35,084 --> 00:05:38,134 Naseem Khan started to realize the imams, there's nothing on them, 81 00:05:38,212 --> 00:05:39,672 there's no case against them. 82 00:05:40,798 --> 00:05:45,008 But there was this young man, Hamid Hayat, who kind of just ran his mouth. 83 00:05:45,845 --> 00:05:47,845 He portrayed himself as a radical, 84 00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:51,139 and so the focus turned to him. 85 00:05:51,726 --> 00:05:53,976 That was the beginning of the whole ordeal. 86 00:06:01,569 --> 00:06:04,699 [woman] They said that Hamid was a jihadist. 87 00:06:05,865 --> 00:06:07,365 This is Hamid as well. 88 00:06:08,534 --> 00:06:10,584 They thought we're gonna have guns, 89 00:06:10,661 --> 00:06:12,831 bombs, knives, 90 00:06:12,914 --> 00:06:17,004 but we're a normal family living here in America. 91 00:06:21,422 --> 00:06:24,302 This is Hamid when he was just three years old. 92 00:06:28,554 --> 00:06:29,604 Hamid... 93 00:06:30,515 --> 00:06:32,595 Growing up with him was really fun. 94 00:06:34,519 --> 00:06:36,899 He was the brother that always took my side. 95 00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:40,319 We used to watch wrestling. 96 00:06:41,526 --> 00:06:43,526 Then we would always get together in the garage, 97 00:06:43,611 --> 00:06:45,611 my cousin, my dad, my brothers, 98 00:06:45,696 --> 00:06:49,616 and we would just lay down anywhere and watch the wrestling together. 99 00:06:51,411 --> 00:06:53,701 He wasn't a big, strong person. 100 00:06:53,788 --> 00:06:57,078 He was really skinny because of the meningitis. 101 00:06:57,834 --> 00:07:02,594 Meningitis is a brain infection that he got when he was young. 102 00:07:02,922 --> 00:07:04,592 He got it in Pakistan. 103 00:07:05,675 --> 00:07:09,005 So that affected him a lot through his personality 104 00:07:09,095 --> 00:07:11,965 because as he was growing up, he became more and more like a kid. 105 00:07:14,642 --> 00:07:18,312 After the meningitis, he didn't want to go out of the house. 106 00:07:18,729 --> 00:07:20,729 He wouldn't focus on school. 107 00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:23,989 He wanted to play more video games, 108 00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:26,147 just stay at home most of the time. 109 00:07:33,369 --> 00:07:35,409 [birds chirping] 110 00:07:36,998 --> 00:07:39,918 Naseem Khan, he was my brother's best friend. 111 00:07:40,626 --> 00:07:42,666 He told my mom he doesn't have a mother. 112 00:07:43,671 --> 00:07:48,301 So because of that, she treated him closely, as her own child. 113 00:07:53,973 --> 00:07:55,733 He had really nice cars. 114 00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:59,308 [laughs] Hamid was like, "What kind of friend do I have with nice cars?" 115 00:08:00,605 --> 00:08:01,935 [Basim] Hamid was kind of a loser. 116 00:08:02,023 --> 00:08:05,033 Like, he didn't really hang out with any other kids. 117 00:08:06,235 --> 00:08:07,895 All of a sudden, this really cool guy, 118 00:08:07,987 --> 00:08:10,817 ten years his senior, started paying a lot of attention to him. 119 00:08:12,283 --> 00:08:14,413 I mean, Naseem Khan gave Hamid 120 00:08:14,494 --> 00:08:17,214 the attention that he craved that he wouldn't get from anyone else. 121 00:08:20,917 --> 00:08:24,587 [man] Because Mr. Khan was an undercover informant, 122 00:08:25,129 --> 00:08:29,299 the nature of his relationship with Mr. Hayat was that they were buddies. 123 00:08:34,805 --> 00:08:39,135 It began with the statements that Mr. Hayat made to Naseem Khan 124 00:08:39,227 --> 00:08:43,307 about his admiration and, um... 125 00:08:45,107 --> 00:08:47,987 delight, really, in some of the activities 126 00:08:48,069 --> 00:08:51,279 of some of the most violent jihadi groups in Pakistan. 127 00:08:55,910 --> 00:09:01,370 He spoke to Mr. Khan about the murder and mutilation of Daniel Pearl... 128 00:09:04,502 --> 00:09:07,052 and talked about what a good job that was 129 00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:10,797 and how they would never be able to send Jews to Pakistan anymore. 130 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:19,676 [Naseem in Arabic] I'm going to fight for jihad. 131 00:09:20,977 --> 00:09:22,807 You don't believe me, do you? 132 00:09:22,895 --> 00:09:24,435 [Hamid in Arabic] Why can't we go? 133 00:09:24,522 --> 00:09:26,822 It's our duty as Muslims to go and help other Muslims. 134 00:09:27,316 --> 00:09:31,986 [Naseem] When we go for training, we will go to Mansehra, right? 135 00:09:32,071 --> 00:09:35,531 [Hamid in English] That's up to you. You wanna go to Mansehra, go. 136 00:09:35,616 --> 00:09:36,736 [Naseem] Okay, okay, okay. 137 00:09:36,826 --> 00:09:40,906 [Hamid in Arabic] The biggest training camp of all is in Kashmir. 138 00:09:40,997 --> 00:09:42,537 [Naseem in Arabic] Have you seen this place? 139 00:09:42,623 --> 00:09:45,503 -[Hamid] I've seen a video of it. -[Naseem] You've seen a video of it. 140 00:09:46,085 --> 00:09:52,375 If one goes for jihad, go to the one in Afghanistan, or to the one in Iraq? 141 00:09:54,176 --> 00:09:58,006 [Hamid] Anywhere in the world where Muslims are attacked. 142 00:09:58,097 --> 00:10:00,097 Jihad is the duty of every Muslim. 143 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,070 [horns honking] 144 00:10:16,449 --> 00:10:20,369 In April, 2003, we went to Pakistan as a whole family. 145 00:10:20,995 --> 00:10:23,535 We went to Pakistan for my sister's wedding 146 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:25,753 and to look for a bride for Hamid as well. 147 00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:28,130 [praying in Arabic] 148 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:34,126 [Raheela] My mom found a bride for Hamid in our village, Behboodi. 149 00:10:36,802 --> 00:10:38,552 So everyone was really happy. 150 00:10:41,515 --> 00:10:43,135 [man] After the actual wedding day, 151 00:10:43,225 --> 00:10:47,145 we did joke around. I'm like, "Hey, so was your, you know, wedding?" 152 00:10:47,229 --> 00:10:51,899 He goes... He was like, "Dude, it was better than I expected. 153 00:10:51,984 --> 00:10:53,324 Beyond my expectations." 154 00:10:54,028 --> 00:10:56,028 [gunshots] 155 00:10:56,489 --> 00:10:59,329 In Pakistan, it's a tradition, you know, when somebody gets engaged, 156 00:10:59,408 --> 00:11:00,278 we shoot guns. 157 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:02,660 [gunshot, cheers] 158 00:11:02,745 --> 00:11:05,035 We told him, "Hey, it's your wedding day. You should shoot." 159 00:11:05,122 --> 00:11:07,462 He's like, "No, no, no. I'm too scared," you know. 160 00:11:07,541 --> 00:11:10,801 "What if it goes up and it comes back down and hits me in the head 161 00:11:10,878 --> 00:11:11,838 or something like that?" 162 00:11:13,631 --> 00:11:16,551 He would act like he was, like, a bold person, 163 00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:18,974 like a big shot, but he wasn't in reality. 164 00:11:19,845 --> 00:11:21,845 He was a bit of a storyteller, yeah. 165 00:11:21,931 --> 00:11:24,891 If he would meet somebody new, Hamid's like, 166 00:11:24,975 --> 00:11:29,225 "Oh, yeah. My dad, you know, he owns Kmart and all these stores in Lodi," 167 00:11:29,313 --> 00:11:31,573 and we were like, "Why would you even tell them that?" 168 00:11:31,649 --> 00:11:34,739 He's like, "Don't worry about it." He just wanted to be that person, you know? 169 00:11:36,654 --> 00:11:37,954 Before his wedding, 170 00:11:38,406 --> 00:11:40,236 his mom bought him a cell phone. 171 00:11:40,324 --> 00:11:41,624 [rings, vibrates] 172 00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:45,161 Naseem Khan, he would constantly call and call. 173 00:11:45,246 --> 00:11:48,036 He would call, and Hamid would be telling his mom, "Hey, you know, 174 00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:50,584 I'm not home right now. I'm sleeping," or something like that. 175 00:11:52,002 --> 00:11:55,462 One day, I think he was watching a cricket match or was playing cricket. 176 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,010 He left the match, came home and broke his phone 177 00:11:58,092 --> 00:12:00,092 because he was like, "Why did you give him my number? 178 00:12:00,177 --> 00:12:02,137 Because I'm tired of him. He's not a good person." 179 00:12:02,555 --> 00:12:04,005 [phone rings] 180 00:12:04,098 --> 00:12:05,928 [Basim] The informant was getting desperate. 181 00:12:07,351 --> 00:12:09,351 Naseem Khan was calling 182 00:12:09,895 --> 00:12:12,395 and trying to convince him to go to a training camp. 183 00:12:13,149 --> 00:12:15,149 [rings, vibrates] 184 00:12:16,569 --> 00:12:18,449 [continues ringing] 185 00:12:19,029 --> 00:12:24,239 [Naseem in Arabic] No, no, no vacation, man. You're sitting there in Pakistan. 186 00:12:24,326 --> 00:12:29,036 You told me, "I'm going to a camp." You're sitting idle. 187 00:12:30,291 --> 00:12:31,961 [Naseem in English] You're wasting time. 188 00:12:32,877 --> 00:12:36,207 [Hamid in Arabic] And I can't do nothing, man. There's no choice, see? 189 00:12:40,843 --> 00:12:44,013 [Naseem] God willing, when I come to Pakistan and I see you, 190 00:12:44,096 --> 00:12:46,466 I'm gonna [bleep] force you, 191 00:12:46,557 --> 00:12:49,687 get you from your throat and [bleep] throw you in the madrassa, 192 00:12:49,769 --> 00:12:51,349 in your grandfather's madrassa. 193 00:12:52,271 --> 00:12:55,111 -[Hamid] I'm not gonna go with that. -[Naseem] Oh, yeah, you will go. 194 00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:56,691 [Naseem] Yeah, you will go. 195 00:12:57,026 --> 00:12:59,606 Maybe I can't fight with you in America, 196 00:12:59,695 --> 00:13:01,315 but I can beat your ass in Pakistan, 197 00:13:01,405 --> 00:13:03,405 so nobody's gonna come to your rescue. 198 00:13:05,242 --> 00:13:08,952 [birds chirping] 199 00:13:11,624 --> 00:13:13,544 [Basim] So in 2004, during that conversation 200 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:16,336 with Naseem Khan, the informant, and Hamid, 201 00:13:16,796 --> 00:13:20,966 you know, he threatens him to go to a camp and-- 202 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,260 or to get training, and then that was it. 203 00:13:23,344 --> 00:13:25,684 After that contentious call, they didn't speak after that. 204 00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:33,810 The government had a theory that he left his village of Behboodi, 205 00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:37,324 took a bus to Balakot, 206 00:13:40,402 --> 00:13:42,912 where supposedly he went to train for six months. 207 00:13:45,157 --> 00:13:47,157 [indistinct chatter] 208 00:13:47,243 --> 00:13:49,333 [chanting] 209 00:13:52,331 --> 00:13:55,631 And the FBI believed that his intent was to come back to the United States 210 00:13:55,709 --> 00:13:57,129 to attack our country. 211 00:13:57,211 --> 00:14:00,591 [birds chirping] 212 00:14:04,593 --> 00:14:06,143 [Raheela] After the wedding, 213 00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:08,930 I spent two years with my family in Pakistan. 214 00:14:10,015 --> 00:14:13,475 My dad was rebuilding our house in our village in Behboodi. 215 00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:19,938 [interviewer] Was there a moment when Hamid could have slipped off 216 00:14:20,025 --> 00:14:21,355 to go and train? 217 00:14:21,986 --> 00:14:25,526 No. He went to his friend's wedding, to Multan for one week. 218 00:14:25,614 --> 00:14:27,914 That's the whole period of time that I haven't seen him 219 00:14:27,992 --> 00:14:30,332 while we were there together for two years. 220 00:14:30,411 --> 00:14:33,461 But other than that, I mean, he didn't go anywhere else. 221 00:14:37,543 --> 00:14:40,713 Coming back in 2005 was the worst. 222 00:14:42,548 --> 00:14:45,838 And they announced that there's someone sitting here in this plane 223 00:14:45,926 --> 00:14:50,176 that's very dangerous, so we have to go back all the way to Japan. 224 00:14:50,764 --> 00:14:53,734 When the plane was about to land in Tokyo, 225 00:14:53,809 --> 00:14:56,189 the air hostess came by and asked Hamid, 226 00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:58,060 "Are you guys the Hayat family?" 227 00:14:59,648 --> 00:15:03,608 There was cameras flashing and asking something that's in Japanese, 228 00:15:03,694 --> 00:15:05,914 and Hamid was kind of angry, 229 00:15:05,988 --> 00:15:08,198 like, "Why are they taking pictures of us?" 230 00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:11,742 When we went inside, 231 00:15:12,119 --> 00:15:14,329 there were these two FBI agents. 232 00:15:14,413 --> 00:15:17,253 They were asking if they could interview Hamid in a different room. 233 00:15:19,585 --> 00:15:21,745 I was sitting down with my mom and my sister, 234 00:15:21,837 --> 00:15:23,417 and they're asking me, 235 00:15:23,505 --> 00:15:25,295 "What were you guys doing in Pakistan? 236 00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:27,642 What kind of friends did Hamid have? 237 00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:31,138 Were they tall? Were they big? Did they have beards?" 238 00:15:32,097 --> 00:15:36,227 Hours later, they told us that everything got cleared up for Hamid 239 00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:38,810 and all of you can go back. 240 00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:46,703 Some days later, an FBI agent came knocking on the door, 241 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:49,279 saying that they want to talk to Hamid. 242 00:15:50,658 --> 00:15:54,238 Little did we know that that was the last day we were gonna spend together. 243 00:15:54,328 --> 00:15:56,828 Friday night was the last day eating together, 244 00:15:57,706 --> 00:15:58,706 talking. 245 00:16:00,918 --> 00:16:02,668 And after that, we never seen him. 246 00:16:15,641 --> 00:16:20,101 [man] Lots of Muslims in the world do have issues with the United States right now, 247 00:16:20,187 --> 00:16:21,357 and that's okay. 248 00:16:21,438 --> 00:16:23,018 It's not a bad thing. 249 00:16:23,107 --> 00:16:25,277 You're free to have those kinds of issues. 250 00:16:25,359 --> 00:16:28,649 You're free to explore... those thoughts. 251 00:16:28,737 --> 00:16:31,407 That's not-- There's nothing illegal about that. 252 00:16:32,533 --> 00:16:33,663 Okay? 253 00:16:33,742 --> 00:16:36,912 And the old Hamid had issues with the United States, 254 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:39,616 and so I want the new Hamid to be honest with me... 255 00:16:40,374 --> 00:16:41,964 about the old Hamid. 256 00:16:43,002 --> 00:16:44,292 Does that make sense? 257 00:16:44,378 --> 00:16:46,798 -[indistinct] -Okay. 258 00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:52,086 [man] Well, my take on this, 259 00:16:52,177 --> 00:16:55,717 I mean, one thing that's true is that after 9/11, 260 00:16:55,806 --> 00:16:59,136 Robert Mueller said, "I am gonna convert the FBI 261 00:16:59,226 --> 00:17:01,476 into a national security agency," 262 00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:06,442 and I think that Sacramento thought they had made the big-time. 263 00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:12,363 [man] To quickly recap, 264 00:17:13,282 --> 00:17:17,912 he was interrogated in Japan on his way back to the United States... 265 00:17:19,371 --> 00:17:21,751 [Basim] And then he voluntarily agreed to go to the FBI office 266 00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:23,752 where he was questioned and he denied. 267 00:17:24,752 --> 00:17:27,802 You know, this is his third time being questioned about this. 268 00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:32,930 But they did not record all the times he denied going to training camp. 269 00:17:33,010 --> 00:17:35,680 It wasn't till much later, after a long interrogation, 270 00:17:35,763 --> 00:17:37,433 that they started recording. 271 00:17:38,849 --> 00:17:43,149 [Dennis] In the interrogations, you see certain tactics being used. 272 00:17:43,228 --> 00:17:45,478 One is, in this case, 273 00:17:45,981 --> 00:17:47,361 saying to Hamid Hayat, 274 00:17:47,441 --> 00:17:50,691 "How would you explain that we have aerial surveillance 275 00:17:50,778 --> 00:17:52,988 showing you that you're in a camp," 276 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,162 which was false. 277 00:17:54,656 --> 00:17:56,736 [man] Look, we know and we see a lot of things. 278 00:17:56,825 --> 00:17:58,825 As has probably been explained to you, 279 00:17:58,911 --> 00:18:01,411 we have satellite imagery and all sorts of other things 280 00:18:01,497 --> 00:18:03,617 that give us an idea of things that are going on. 281 00:18:03,707 --> 00:18:06,917 So you're in camp for three to four months? 282 00:18:07,002 --> 00:18:08,802 -Is that-- -[Hamid] Yeah, something like that. 283 00:18:08,879 --> 00:18:10,919 I thought you guys had information like that. 284 00:18:11,006 --> 00:18:11,916 [man] Okay. 285 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:15,759 [Dennis] Once they broke him with, 286 00:18:15,844 --> 00:18:18,104 "Oh, we have photographs of you in the camp," 287 00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:19,600 you know, the bullshit started, 288 00:18:19,681 --> 00:18:22,521 and he thought that he would go home at the end of the session. 289 00:18:27,856 --> 00:18:30,026 [man] Most of the camps, you have weapons training, 290 00:18:30,109 --> 00:18:32,439 you have explosives training. 291 00:18:32,528 --> 00:18:33,778 [Hamid] Over there in the camps? 292 00:18:33,862 --> 00:18:36,282 [man] And you-- They do karate or-- 293 00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:39,832 I didn't see no karate over there. That's the thing I was thinking. 294 00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:43,410 I was going to tell you, but I forgot. I didn't see no karate over there, sir. 295 00:18:43,747 --> 00:18:46,827 [man] Did you run? Like run or jog or work out? 296 00:18:46,917 --> 00:18:50,087 Jogging, like running, yeah. I told you, sir, jogging, you know. 297 00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:54,550 Looking at my body, they knew that he's not that tough or anything like that, 298 00:18:54,633 --> 00:18:56,593 -any big thing like that so... -So... 299 00:18:56,677 --> 00:18:59,047 Um, and then different kinds of weapons training. 300 00:18:59,138 --> 00:19:01,268 They have a variety of different kinds of weapons. 301 00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:03,348 Yeah, I got to do the pistol. That's it. 302 00:19:03,433 --> 00:19:04,563 So you did pistol training-- 303 00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:07,063 I did it. I'm not good at it, either. When I do it, 304 00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:09,896 "You're not doing it right. You have to do this, do that." It's like... 305 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,030 -Do you remember what kind of gun it was? -No. It was a black one. 306 00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:15,201 I can remember the color, 307 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:18,069 but I don't remember what the name was or anything like that. 308 00:19:18,198 --> 00:19:19,868 So you take how many shots? 309 00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:22,079 I think I took, like, three or four shots. 310 00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:24,041 Three or four shots. Did you reload? 311 00:19:24,121 --> 00:19:26,331 -Because normally-- -I didn't know how to reload it. 312 00:19:26,415 --> 00:19:27,245 I didn't... 313 00:19:27,332 --> 00:19:29,332 I mean, I'm sure in three, four months, 314 00:19:29,418 --> 00:19:31,798 three and a half, four months, they teach you how to reload. 315 00:19:31,879 --> 00:19:35,919 The thing is, they put, like, bullets in there for us up there. 316 00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:38,678 Not in the thing. Up there. 317 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,720 Oh, one at a time? 318 00:19:39,803 --> 00:19:42,563 -One at a time, yeah, like that. -Okay. 319 00:19:42,639 --> 00:19:44,889 You know, they grew frustrated afterward 320 00:19:44,975 --> 00:19:46,725 'cause he was saying yes to everything, 321 00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:50,770 so it showed that, you know, he was just making stuff up. 322 00:19:51,982 --> 00:19:53,192 It just... 323 00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:54,855 The stories were so far-fetched 324 00:19:54,943 --> 00:19:57,203 that anyone who heard them would just start laughing. 325 00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,409 [man] Tell me about rifle training. There's-- 326 00:19:59,489 --> 00:20:01,489 Oh, rifle training is very hard, sir. 327 00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:03,789 They made me stand over there, 328 00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:06,409 and I said I barely couldn't pick it up 'cause it's very heavy. 329 00:20:06,496 --> 00:20:07,746 I'm skinny, you know. 330 00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:11,166 They said, "You can't shoot that again 'cause you don't have that much power." 331 00:20:11,251 --> 00:20:14,171 And I was thinking, "God, that..." You know, I don't want to do that again. 332 00:20:16,006 --> 00:20:18,586 How many times can you go back 333 00:20:18,675 --> 00:20:21,345 before they send you out for jihad? 334 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,970 Do they have, like, you have to be here for so much training 335 00:20:25,057 --> 00:20:26,927 before you go to jihad or... 336 00:20:27,017 --> 00:20:30,557 [yawning] I think so, for six months, seven months... 337 00:20:30,646 --> 00:20:32,646 [man] Six or seven months. So you were getting close. 338 00:20:32,731 --> 00:20:35,821 Yeah, like that, but, you know, I didn't get trained that much or anything. 339 00:20:35,901 --> 00:20:38,821 They were using me, like, for the kitchen and the cooking, 340 00:20:38,904 --> 00:20:40,614 but I don't know how to cook or anything. 341 00:20:40,697 --> 00:20:42,817 You don't know how to cook? Did you learn? 342 00:20:42,908 --> 00:20:43,778 -No, I-- -No? 343 00:20:43,867 --> 00:20:45,787 I was washing vegetables and everything like that. 344 00:20:45,869 --> 00:20:46,909 Oh, okay. 345 00:20:48,163 --> 00:20:51,293 Hamid tells the FBI that he shot it so bad 346 00:20:51,375 --> 00:20:54,085 that they never allowed him to shoot again, 347 00:20:54,628 --> 00:20:57,378 and they put him in the kitchen to help cook and all that 348 00:20:57,464 --> 00:20:59,094 because he's a lousy shot. 349 00:21:00,634 --> 00:21:03,224 The agents asked him, you know, whether or not-- 350 00:21:03,303 --> 00:21:06,103 how he was going to receive his marching orders, 351 00:21:06,181 --> 00:21:07,181 whether to... 352 00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:10,311 blow something up or something else. 353 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,350 You came to the United States, 354 00:21:12,437 --> 00:21:15,107 you've got to go to jihad, and... 355 00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:17,864 you left with marching orders. 356 00:21:17,943 --> 00:21:19,363 -What's that? -You know what that is? 357 00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:22,034 -No. -Here's what your mission is, what you do. 358 00:21:22,698 --> 00:21:24,618 So, what did they want you to do? 359 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,240 They didn't tell me nothing. They say you can go right now, 360 00:21:27,327 --> 00:21:29,367 and if we need you or anything, they'll let me know. 361 00:21:29,621 --> 00:21:31,041 Who was gonna tell you? 362 00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:33,543 'Cause they're not... Are they gonna call you up from Pakistan? 363 00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:35,035 I don't think so. I think somebody-- 364 00:21:35,127 --> 00:21:37,127 Maybe send a letter or anything like that, maybe. 365 00:21:37,212 --> 00:21:38,712 I don't think they'll send a letter. 366 00:21:38,797 --> 00:21:42,877 His answer is that he thought maybe they'd send him a letter. 367 00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:46,219 I mean, that just has to give you... 368 00:21:47,139 --> 00:21:48,889 his state of mind, 369 00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:51,694 what he thinks he's involved in here. 370 00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:54,598 He was gonna get some kind of certified letter 371 00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:57,188 delivered by the United States Post Office? 372 00:21:58,025 --> 00:21:59,025 Absurd. 373 00:22:09,036 --> 00:22:11,656 This is all I'm trying to-- That's all I'm trying to understand here 374 00:22:11,747 --> 00:22:12,827 is what they said. 375 00:22:12,914 --> 00:22:15,134 [Hamid] They said that you have to go to America for jihad. 376 00:22:15,208 --> 00:22:16,458 [man] Okay. To fight? Yeah. 377 00:22:16,543 --> 00:22:20,423 [Hamid] Yeah. America, you know, to fight. That's what they told. 378 00:22:20,505 --> 00:22:22,255 [man] To go to America to fight jihad? 379 00:22:22,382 --> 00:22:25,302 All right. That's all I'm trying to hear. 380 00:22:25,385 --> 00:22:28,345 That's all I want to hear is just what they said. 381 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:29,390 All right. 382 00:22:29,473 --> 00:22:32,603 That night, for sure, he didn't understand what was going on, 383 00:22:33,268 --> 00:22:37,268 and I don't think he ever really got it 384 00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:39,066 until he probably went to prison. 385 00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,488 So I come back here tomorrow again? 386 00:22:41,568 --> 00:22:43,608 No, you're not leaving here tonight, no. 387 00:22:43,695 --> 00:22:47,065 No, I mean tomorrow. I'm gonna be here tonight, staying here? 388 00:22:47,157 --> 00:22:49,987 -[man 1] No, you're gonna go to jail. -[man 2] You're going to jail. 389 00:22:50,077 --> 00:22:52,617 So do I get a place to sleep over there like that? 390 00:22:53,413 --> 00:22:54,793 It's jail, Hamid. You know that? 391 00:22:54,873 --> 00:22:58,293 I know it's a jail, but can I lay down because my head is hurting? 392 00:22:58,377 --> 00:23:01,877 I want to sleep. I'm just saying, will I come back here again tomorrow? 393 00:23:13,266 --> 00:23:14,346 [Raheela] On Monday, 394 00:23:15,102 --> 00:23:17,232 the FBI came to search our house. 395 00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:19,185 [phone rings] 396 00:23:19,272 --> 00:23:20,362 They had a search warrant. 397 00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:22,481 [continues ringing] 398 00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:25,817 They called on the house phone, said, "Umer, open the door," 399 00:23:25,904 --> 00:23:27,824 and, boom, the door opened. 400 00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:32,985 They pour into the house like you know how an ant goes out of a hill? 401 00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:34,038 Like... 402 00:23:34,121 --> 00:23:36,041 Like that, with their guns drawn. 403 00:23:37,457 --> 00:23:39,037 I was sitting on the sofa, 404 00:23:39,376 --> 00:23:42,666 and I was crying because they had the gun held to my mom's head. 405 00:23:42,754 --> 00:23:45,884 I thought they're gonna shoot her. She's gonna die right there on the scene. 406 00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:49,215 And they had a gun pointed right here to my head right here as well. 407 00:23:53,098 --> 00:23:55,388 And they said, "Go stand next to your mom." 408 00:23:55,684 --> 00:23:58,354 And they shattered everything in the house. 409 00:23:58,437 --> 00:24:00,437 [glass shattering] 410 00:24:01,565 --> 00:24:04,025 [camera clicking] 411 00:24:07,988 --> 00:24:11,028 [David] In his scrapbook that was found in his home, 412 00:24:11,533 --> 00:24:14,833 he collected articles about political parties 413 00:24:14,911 --> 00:24:18,621 and other political groups that were devoted to violent jihad. 414 00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:24,384 Assuming that Mr. Hayat truly had gone for jihadi training, 415 00:24:24,463 --> 00:24:26,593 and assuming that he came back here 416 00:24:26,673 --> 00:24:30,723 with the intention of awaiting direction to commit some act of violence, 417 00:24:30,802 --> 00:24:32,182 that's dangerous. 418 00:24:32,262 --> 00:24:36,432 And we'll never know exactly what the danger was, 419 00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:41,186 but that's part of preemptive prosecution is that you cut that off, 420 00:24:41,271 --> 00:24:42,481 rather than waiting. 421 00:24:42,564 --> 00:24:44,984 The traditional approach to these things 422 00:24:45,066 --> 00:24:49,486 had been to wait to see specifically what risk was being posed, 423 00:24:50,071 --> 00:24:52,571 but the additional risk that you accept when you do that 424 00:24:52,657 --> 00:24:55,327 is you might not be able to stop it before it happens. 425 00:25:00,957 --> 00:25:04,587 Well, a suspect, Hamid Hayat, is due in federal court in Sacramento. 426 00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:07,799 A judge will determine whether he is a danger to the community. 427 00:25:07,881 --> 00:25:10,801 Meantime, some of his family members say they are under surveillance 428 00:25:10,884 --> 00:25:13,304 and are being asked to take lie detector tests. 429 00:25:14,221 --> 00:25:17,521 [Basim] Many journalists who were sitting in the audience were in shock. 430 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,519 They were like, "This is a scary day for America." 431 00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:23,396 In this climate of fear, 432 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,110 they're gonna go after individuals who might have inclination 433 00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:29,192 towards radical ideas. 434 00:25:29,569 --> 00:25:31,109 They never committed a crime. 435 00:25:32,322 --> 00:25:35,622 They said, "This is a new era we're heading into," and sure enough, it was. 436 00:25:38,662 --> 00:25:40,832 One of the most important pieces of evidence 437 00:25:41,248 --> 00:25:42,788 was a piece of paper in his wallet 438 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:46,630 at the time that he traveled to Pakistan. It was called the ta'wiz. 439 00:25:47,462 --> 00:25:49,882 It's a supplication in Arabic 440 00:25:50,257 --> 00:25:53,757 that spoke about, "Oh, Allah, we place you at the throats of our enemies." 441 00:25:55,637 --> 00:25:58,267 And the experts who testified at trial 442 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,600 talked about the fact that this was something 443 00:26:00,684 --> 00:26:02,524 that would be carried by a person 444 00:26:02,602 --> 00:26:05,482 who expected to go into battle against an enemy. 445 00:26:05,564 --> 00:26:06,984 It would also be something 446 00:26:07,065 --> 00:26:10,275 that if it were found on his body if he were to perish, 447 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,400 that it would identify him as a martyr. 448 00:26:15,699 --> 00:26:17,079 So all of those facts 449 00:26:17,158 --> 00:26:19,578 all were evidence that was presented to the jury 450 00:26:19,661 --> 00:26:23,791 as something that was evidence of his intent to commit violence. 451 00:26:28,044 --> 00:26:31,384 You know, this is the note that the government called "the throat note," 452 00:26:31,464 --> 00:26:37,054 and, you know, in a book that almost every Muslim household has, 453 00:26:37,679 --> 00:26:39,009 Riyâd-us-Sâliheen, 454 00:26:39,514 --> 00:26:42,104 under The Book of Etiquette of Travelling, 455 00:26:42,183 --> 00:26:44,193 "Supplication If One Fears Harm." 456 00:26:44,686 --> 00:26:47,556 This prayer, it's under the chapter of travel. 457 00:26:50,066 --> 00:26:52,776 A prayer that Muslims use for protection in travel 458 00:26:52,861 --> 00:26:54,701 all of a sudden is being weaponized, 459 00:26:54,779 --> 00:26:57,869 that this is a jihadi prayer for war. 460 00:26:58,408 --> 00:27:01,868 I mean, it was just one scary thing after the other for our community. 461 00:27:02,746 --> 00:27:05,956 And a lot of people were afraid, too. Afraid to speak about this case. 462 00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:08,841 A lot of people were afraid to come forward and to show support for him. 463 00:27:12,922 --> 00:27:14,052 Ready to go. 464 00:27:14,841 --> 00:27:17,221 [reporter] How do you feel about the jury selection yesterday? 465 00:27:17,427 --> 00:27:18,797 I feel good about the jury. 466 00:27:19,512 --> 00:27:22,182 I'm confident that they'll make the right decision. 467 00:27:24,017 --> 00:27:25,637 [Dennis] Wazhma Mojaddidi. 468 00:27:25,727 --> 00:27:30,767 My impression of her was that she was passionate about this case, 469 00:27:31,274 --> 00:27:33,324 felt it was a grave injustice, 470 00:27:33,777 --> 00:27:37,237 and absolutely convinced of her client's innocence. 471 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,240 Wazhma saw the confession as the evidence, okay? 472 00:27:43,328 --> 00:27:45,078 It was... It was... 473 00:27:46,247 --> 00:27:48,627 unequivocal. It was the government's case. 474 00:27:51,628 --> 00:27:53,798 But she considered it weak evidence 475 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,260 because it seemed so discombobulated to her. 476 00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,719 [man] You're all over the map here, yeah, 477 00:27:59,803 --> 00:28:02,683 and you're not helping yourself by doing that. Yeah. 478 00:28:02,764 --> 00:28:05,394 [Hamid] I'll say Balakot. That's the first thing I'll say. 479 00:28:05,475 --> 00:28:08,345 -Where's the camp, Hamid? -That's what I'm trying to say to you. 480 00:28:08,436 --> 00:28:13,066 The camp will be in Elaqa Ghair, Tora Bora something or at Torkham. 481 00:28:13,566 --> 00:28:16,186 [man] Near Afghanistan? Bora Bora, are you talking about? 482 00:28:16,277 --> 00:28:18,567 This is the place where you were, where you trained. 483 00:28:18,655 --> 00:28:21,115 You were there for six months. You know where it is. 484 00:28:21,199 --> 00:28:24,289 [Hamid] The final thing I'll say, it was in Afghanistan. 485 00:28:24,661 --> 00:28:27,871 [man] Now you're in Afghanistan? We're not playing a game here. 486 00:28:28,623 --> 00:28:32,253 This is at the heels of a four-year undercover operation. 487 00:28:33,378 --> 00:28:38,508 So I was expecting that the agents would have known 488 00:28:38,591 --> 00:28:44,141 or would have had some verification where a camp was. 489 00:28:44,597 --> 00:28:47,017 It brings to mind that something's wrong 490 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:51,480 and you need to try to corroborate what in fact happened. 491 00:28:58,778 --> 00:29:01,948 I don't believe that there was an effort 492 00:29:02,031 --> 00:29:05,291 to investigate Mr. Hayat while he was in Pakistan. 493 00:29:07,912 --> 00:29:13,962 But there were at least six times that Mr. Hayat mentioned Balakot. 494 00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:17,629 So there were satellite photos that we were able to use 495 00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:19,264 from the Department of Defense, 496 00:29:19,340 --> 00:29:24,050 and these were commercial-quality versions of photographs taken from satellites. 497 00:29:26,139 --> 00:29:28,849 The FBI has a major office in Islamabad. 498 00:29:28,933 --> 00:29:33,103 They've been arresting people related to 9/11 all over Pakistan. 499 00:29:33,188 --> 00:29:35,858 They've got CIA and FBI in Pakistan, 500 00:29:36,191 --> 00:29:41,151 and this supposed camp is a drive up a road from Islamabad. 501 00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:45,950 They say the camp's at Balakot. 502 00:29:46,367 --> 00:29:50,117 And look at this case. Look at its importance and so forth and so on. 503 00:29:50,455 --> 00:29:54,665 They didn't drive up the road to see if it was there. 504 00:29:54,751 --> 00:29:56,211 Why didn't they do that? 505 00:29:56,294 --> 00:30:00,384 I submit to you it's 'cause they know there was no functioning camp. 506 00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:05,264 [James] What is incredible to me 507 00:30:05,345 --> 00:30:10,595 was that the government really thought that Hamid was such a terrorist 508 00:30:11,142 --> 00:30:14,482 that they would have done more to corroborate 509 00:30:14,562 --> 00:30:17,402 and document what he was doing. 510 00:30:17,899 --> 00:30:19,729 Did he go to a terrorism camp? 511 00:30:19,818 --> 00:30:22,898 You know, that was a question they never really answered. 512 00:30:26,199 --> 00:30:30,119 [Dennis] What the expert says is, "Okay, here's four photographs." 513 00:30:31,579 --> 00:30:33,579 Well, they've got some buildings there. 514 00:30:35,416 --> 00:30:38,376 There's a 50% chance that it's a militant camp, 515 00:30:38,461 --> 00:30:43,721 and there's a 50% chance that it's a Pakistani military facility. 516 00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:45,931 That's nothing. 517 00:30:47,136 --> 00:30:51,096 If you say that something is either an apple or an orange, 518 00:30:51,182 --> 00:30:55,352 equally, you haven't offered any proof that it's an apple or that it's an orange. 519 00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:06,735 But the government doesn't offer any photographs 520 00:31:06,823 --> 00:31:11,703 that positively show people training with rifles on the ground, 521 00:31:11,786 --> 00:31:14,656 I mean, with sufficient detail that you can detect that. 522 00:31:16,291 --> 00:31:21,341 Any good lawyer would have pressed the government on this point. 523 00:31:21,421 --> 00:31:23,171 "Let's see all the photographs." 524 00:31:24,048 --> 00:31:25,548 But in order to do that, 525 00:31:25,633 --> 00:31:28,263 you have to have what's called the security clearance, 526 00:31:28,595 --> 00:31:32,805 and Wazhma Mojaddidi never got a security clearance. 527 00:31:34,851 --> 00:31:38,611 The fact that the government never investigated the camp 528 00:31:39,147 --> 00:31:41,977 was not something that the jury heard, 529 00:31:42,066 --> 00:31:43,646 which we now know is true, 530 00:31:43,735 --> 00:31:46,275 and it's because she didn't get a security clearance. 531 00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:02,630 [David] I don't know why the defense attorney 532 00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:06,802 in the Hayat case chose not to receive a clearance. 533 00:32:07,175 --> 00:32:10,255 I know that in the years I've been a defense attorney 534 00:32:10,345 --> 00:32:13,345 since I left the government, I've been cleared in cases, 535 00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:17,851 and I've considered it important to review the information that's classified 536 00:32:17,936 --> 00:32:21,516 that's provided to me to make sure that there's nothing there... 537 00:32:22,231 --> 00:32:25,991 that would assist my client or contradict the Government's case. 538 00:32:28,738 --> 00:32:31,158 [man] Why did you ultimately decide 539 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,660 that you didn't need to obtain a clearance? 540 00:32:36,454 --> 00:32:37,504 Um... 541 00:32:39,666 --> 00:32:40,996 [sighs, chuckles] 542 00:32:45,505 --> 00:32:48,085 I don't honestly remember right now. 543 00:32:48,841 --> 00:32:50,261 But at the time, 544 00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:55,519 the strategy seemed sound and rational... 545 00:32:56,724 --> 00:32:58,064 and it made sense. 546 00:33:01,938 --> 00:33:04,478 [Dennis] This is a lawyer who had never tried a case before, 547 00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:06,775 was two or three years out of law school. 548 00:33:07,860 --> 00:33:11,610 This is a case that needed a lawyer who had done a hundred trials. 549 00:33:12,824 --> 00:33:17,704 The government had four highly-skilled, highly-trained lawyers 550 00:33:17,787 --> 00:33:19,577 on the prosecution side. 551 00:33:19,914 --> 00:33:24,294 It's just a punch in the face, you know, 552 00:33:24,711 --> 00:33:30,381 to think of a lawyer with no experience attempting to defend this case. 553 00:33:31,426 --> 00:33:32,636 Her heart was in it, 554 00:33:33,428 --> 00:33:39,428 but, frankly, there was a kind of hubris and ambition that blinded her. 555 00:33:40,101 --> 00:33:42,851 She said that she had to learn on the job. 556 00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:47,146 When somebody's facing, you know, the rest of their life in prison, 557 00:33:47,233 --> 00:33:50,823 you don't have a lawyer who has to learn on the job in order to defend them. 558 00:33:50,903 --> 00:33:52,243 And those are her words. 559 00:33:53,114 --> 00:33:55,414 [man] What was your thinking on... 560 00:33:56,576 --> 00:34:01,496 why you were qualified to represent Hamid in this very serious case? 561 00:34:02,498 --> 00:34:04,828 I thought that it could work. 562 00:34:04,917 --> 00:34:10,047 I thought that-- I mean, even though I had never been in a criminal courtroom, 563 00:34:10,131 --> 00:34:11,631 I felt comfortable in the courtroom. 564 00:34:11,716 --> 00:34:13,586 I thought it was something I could handle 565 00:34:13,676 --> 00:34:18,886 if I had some guidance on just the procedural stuff. 566 00:34:19,223 --> 00:34:21,983 Uh, and I was willing to learn it. 567 00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:24,770 I was willing to get in and... do it. 568 00:34:36,407 --> 00:34:38,487 [reporter] The news just out of federal court today, 569 00:34:38,576 --> 00:34:44,166 Hamid Hayat has been sentenced to 24 years in a federal penitentiary. 570 00:34:44,499 --> 00:34:47,959 [Wazhma] Hamid Hayat never attended a terrorist training camp. 571 00:34:48,461 --> 00:34:50,881 This fight is definitely not over. 572 00:34:50,963 --> 00:34:53,473 There will be a motion for a new trial, 573 00:34:53,549 --> 00:34:58,889 and ultimately, Hamid Hayat will be proven innocent, as he is. 574 00:34:58,971 --> 00:35:01,221 It is my hope that any others out there 575 00:35:01,307 --> 00:35:04,597 contemplating taking the path chosen by Hamid Hayat 576 00:35:04,685 --> 00:35:06,765 will see this sentence as a wake-up call 577 00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:09,154 and change their course to a more favorable one. 578 00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:17,906 They really sent a dangerous message to... to not just the American Muslim community, 579 00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:20,990 but the future of our democracy and the rule of law. 580 00:35:22,745 --> 00:35:23,955 They knew he was innocent, 581 00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:27,248 but they were afraid if he does do something, 582 00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:29,003 how could we live with ourselves? 583 00:35:29,377 --> 00:35:32,207 But for American Muslims in a post-9/11 climate, 584 00:35:32,296 --> 00:35:33,836 you get a different type of justice. 585 00:35:33,923 --> 00:35:36,803 And the bar-- beyond a reasonable doubt-- 586 00:35:37,677 --> 00:35:40,137 we lower it to just the minimum, 587 00:35:40,221 --> 00:35:43,521 just even the idea that someone might do something. 588 00:35:53,901 --> 00:35:55,901 [Raheela] In the beginning, we didn't know 589 00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:57,735 who did all of this. 590 00:35:57,822 --> 00:35:59,822 We didn't know the person, so... 591 00:36:00,533 --> 00:36:03,333 When they brought Naseem Khan inside the court, 592 00:36:03,411 --> 00:36:08,421 telling Hamid and our family members this is the guy who was after Hamid, 593 00:36:08,499 --> 00:36:10,749 we were like, "How could he do this to us?" 594 00:36:12,295 --> 00:36:14,205 It was literally like an earthquake 595 00:36:14,297 --> 00:36:16,467 because my mom treated him as a son. 596 00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:18,511 They felt very heartbroken. 597 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,480 [James] The FBI let this guy, this informant, 598 00:36:27,268 --> 00:36:30,098 getting paid $235,000, 599 00:36:30,855 --> 00:36:35,815 you know, who before that was just working in a 7-Eleven, 600 00:36:35,902 --> 00:36:37,362 you know, at a cash register. 601 00:36:38,696 --> 00:36:43,276 And then not to pick up the aggressive nature 602 00:36:43,367 --> 00:36:48,537 of his conversations with this 18, 19-year-old kid, 603 00:36:49,582 --> 00:36:51,752 that kind of behavior is not acceptable. 604 00:36:52,501 --> 00:36:53,961 You know, it blew my mind. 605 00:36:54,795 --> 00:36:56,125 It still blows my mind. 606 00:37:15,983 --> 00:37:19,153 [woman] I have chosen to conceal my identity today 607 00:37:19,237 --> 00:37:22,567 because this is a very painful subject for me to talk about. 608 00:37:24,867 --> 00:37:29,117 Most of my community members don't know about Naseem as my son. 609 00:37:30,915 --> 00:37:36,085 I personally am very humiliated to have to say that I'm the mother. 610 00:37:36,963 --> 00:37:38,973 Naseem is very, very clever. 611 00:37:39,048 --> 00:37:41,508 He was capable to say all kinds of things. 612 00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:44,510 He deceived his own mother... 613 00:37:45,179 --> 00:37:49,769 and was using the FBI and everyone else that he came in contact with 614 00:37:49,850 --> 00:37:51,310 for his own gain. 615 00:37:53,104 --> 00:37:58,284 I truly feel very badly for the Hayat family. 616 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,610 [door creaking] 617 00:38:05,741 --> 00:38:10,081 I have an obligation as a Muslim to speak the truth, 618 00:38:11,163 --> 00:38:14,213 to give up any knowledge that I have of a situation 619 00:38:14,292 --> 00:38:17,382 which will rectify an injustice. 620 00:38:21,674 --> 00:38:24,264 It was really hard to see my parents like this. 621 00:38:28,014 --> 00:38:30,854 My mom, she's such a nice person. 622 00:38:31,517 --> 00:38:33,097 She loves everyone. 623 00:38:33,185 --> 00:38:37,105 And now when I look at her, she's always sad, depressed, crying. 624 00:38:37,189 --> 00:38:39,189 She's always on medication now. 625 00:38:41,068 --> 00:38:45,238 Her first child, all his happiness, just gone. 52344

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