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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.BZ 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.BZ 3 00:00:13,931 --> 00:00:15,932 Our other top local story 4 00:00:15,933 --> 00:00:17,183 on Eyewitness News at Noon-- 5 00:00:17,184 --> 00:00:19,644 This is an incredible tale. 6 00:00:19,645 --> 00:00:23,106 Artists set up an apartment inside Providence Place Mall, 7 00:00:23,107 --> 00:00:26,317 going undetected for years. 8 00:00:57,475 --> 00:00:59,225 WPRO-FM, Providence. 9 00:00:59,226 --> 00:01:00,810 It's 11:00 with the G-Man, 10 00:01:00,811 --> 00:01:02,187 rolling through 10 hits in a row, 11 00:01:02,188 --> 00:01:04,189 the most music every hour. 12 00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:09,694 ♪ 92, 92 PRO FM ♪ 13 00:01:09,695 --> 00:01:11,446 We were listening to the radio, 14 00:01:11,447 --> 00:01:16,201 and this ad came on 15 00:01:16,202 --> 00:01:18,912 for the Providence Place Mall. 16 00:01:18,913 --> 00:01:20,497 It was this woman. 17 00:01:20,498 --> 00:01:23,208 She was a mom, and she was talking about 18 00:01:23,209 --> 00:01:26,294 how great her life was about to become, 19 00:01:26,295 --> 00:01:28,671 because it was going to be so convenient for her 20 00:01:28,672 --> 00:01:30,882 to get everything that she needed for her kids, 21 00:01:30,883 --> 00:01:32,342 for herself. 22 00:01:32,343 --> 00:01:35,179 If only she could live there. 23 00:01:37,181 --> 00:01:39,432 I just had this idea-- 24 00:01:39,433 --> 00:01:43,229 "Oh. we should live in the mall." 25 00:01:44,730 --> 00:01:46,147 Live at the mall. 26 00:01:46,148 --> 00:01:49,859 Like, it seemed like a very absurd fantasy, 27 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:52,612 and a great way to plow through 28 00:01:52,613 --> 00:01:54,572 all of the negativity 29 00:01:54,573 --> 00:01:56,866 that had been built up for years 30 00:01:56,867 --> 00:01:59,452 in the loss of our homes 31 00:01:59,453 --> 00:02:03,081 and the homes of like hundreds of people. 32 00:02:03,082 --> 00:02:08,503 And so Adriana and Andrew and Jay and myself decided 33 00:02:08,504 --> 00:02:12,048 that we would go live there for at least one week. 34 00:02:12,049 --> 00:02:14,134 It was more of a game of survival-- 35 00:02:14,135 --> 00:02:15,802 Who was gonna get kicked out from security 36 00:02:15,803 --> 00:02:17,595 and who was gonna last the longest. 37 00:02:17,596 --> 00:02:19,806 And I think we were making bets about it. 38 00:02:19,807 --> 00:02:21,266 I definitely thought that I was gonna 39 00:02:21,267 --> 00:02:22,809 live there the longest. 40 00:02:22,810 --> 00:02:24,394 I think, in my mind, I was like, 41 00:02:24,395 --> 00:02:25,854 oh, we need to document. 42 00:02:25,855 --> 00:02:27,648 And I'm like, oh, we need a sketchbook. 43 00:02:32,486 --> 00:02:34,362 And Mike's instinct on the document was like, 44 00:02:34,363 --> 00:02:36,239 "All right, we all need to have a point-and-shoot camera 45 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:37,532 and be able to do video." 46 00:02:37,533 --> 00:02:39,993 We had a little camera 47 00:02:39,994 --> 00:02:44,914 called a Pentax Optio S4i. 48 00:02:44,915 --> 00:02:48,918 It is incredibly low-res and the audio is terrible. 49 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,421 It's not designed for video. 50 00:02:51,422 --> 00:02:55,300 Interestingly, it fit inside an Altoids can. 51 00:02:55,301 --> 00:02:57,510 In my hand, that camera disappears, 52 00:02:57,511 --> 00:03:00,847 which meant that I could walk through the mall 53 00:03:00,848 --> 00:03:02,557 with my arm like this. 54 00:03:02,558 --> 00:03:06,394 It sounds silly, but I would forget it was there. 55 00:03:06,395 --> 00:03:10,815 It was a fair bit of the food court. 56 00:03:10,816 --> 00:03:13,068 It was trying on clothes. 57 00:03:15,613 --> 00:03:20,408 You know, a funny kind of teenage mall-hang existence. 58 00:03:20,409 --> 00:03:22,076 We ate all the leftover food 59 00:03:22,077 --> 00:03:23,370 at the food court. 60 00:03:23,704 --> 00:03:25,079 We saw, like, almost every movie 61 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,166 at the movie theater, which was awesome. 62 00:03:28,167 --> 00:03:30,544 But as the sun set, 63 00:03:30,669 --> 00:03:33,588 we started to internalize the dilemma 64 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:36,133 we'd put ourselves in, which is we have no plan. 65 00:03:36,467 --> 00:03:38,927 Where are we gonna sleep? 66 00:03:38,928 --> 00:03:42,305 Jay and Andrew found 67 00:03:42,306 --> 00:03:47,810 a four-foot-by-four-foot column in the parking garage 68 00:03:47,811 --> 00:03:50,688 that had an opening that they could sneak up inside of. 69 00:03:50,689 --> 00:03:53,524 I was in a really small space, 70 00:03:53,525 --> 00:03:54,985 unable to stretch out. 71 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:56,694 I believe I slept in my jacket 72 00:03:56,695 --> 00:03:59,113 with my knees kind of curled up to my chest. 73 00:03:59,114 --> 00:04:01,407 I've been camping in some way, shape, or form 74 00:04:01,408 --> 00:04:02,993 since I was a small kid, 75 00:04:03,118 --> 00:04:04,786 and I've had a lot of miserable nights out. 76 00:04:04,787 --> 00:04:09,832 And this is in the pantheon of worst. 77 00:04:09,833 --> 00:04:12,418 The place that Adriana and I find 78 00:04:12,419 --> 00:04:15,798 is based on my memory of the mall's construction. 79 00:04:17,466 --> 00:04:19,593 When the mall was being built, 80 00:04:19,718 --> 00:04:23,346 I saw a space that I could not figure out 81 00:04:23,347 --> 00:04:25,431 what it would be used for. 82 00:04:25,432 --> 00:04:27,141 It was a nowhere space, 83 00:04:27,142 --> 00:04:30,436 and I saw them store construction materials on it, 84 00:04:30,437 --> 00:04:34,148 and I just sort of made a mental note about it. 85 00:04:34,149 --> 00:04:39,737 I proposed that perhaps the nowhere space, as it were, 86 00:04:39,738 --> 00:04:43,617 would give us shelter for the night. 87 00:04:43,742 --> 00:04:46,828 And we went looking for that anomaly in the architecture, 88 00:04:46,829 --> 00:04:48,663 and we snuck ourselves in there 89 00:04:48,664 --> 00:04:50,540 and we took out our flashlights 90 00:04:50,541 --> 00:04:54,752 and we kept poking around. 91 00:04:54,753 --> 00:04:57,214 And it struck me that the nowhere space, 92 00:04:57,339 --> 00:05:02,093 as it were, must be up here somewhere. 93 00:05:02,094 --> 00:05:05,847 And we were able to push ourselves up I-beams. 94 00:05:05,848 --> 00:05:10,560 And there it was. And it was safe and secure. 95 00:05:10,561 --> 00:05:13,187 We're completely off the radar. 96 00:05:13,188 --> 00:05:14,605 We weren't even entirely sure 97 00:05:14,606 --> 00:05:17,108 where we were in the mall, but there was 98 00:05:17,109 --> 00:05:20,486 the debris of construction was still there, 99 00:05:20,487 --> 00:05:23,114 you know, four years later, after the mall had opened. 100 00:05:23,115 --> 00:05:27,493 It was dirty. It was truly abandoned. 101 00:05:27,494 --> 00:05:32,123 And we were like, "Oh, this is great!" 102 00:05:32,124 --> 00:05:34,083 Mike been like, come see the space I found. 103 00:05:34,084 --> 00:05:37,211 And so, like, we all went down and into the bowels 104 00:05:37,212 --> 00:05:40,214 and saw the like cavern that he had found. 105 00:05:40,215 --> 00:05:42,300 Looking around at all the clues, 106 00:05:42,301 --> 00:05:43,552 it's like no one's been in here 107 00:05:43,677 --> 00:05:45,595 since they built the mall. 108 00:05:45,596 --> 00:05:50,267 It started the conversation immediately about like, 109 00:05:50,392 --> 00:05:52,269 wait, this is a lot of space. 110 00:05:52,394 --> 00:05:59,109 Maybe we have a responsibility to do something with it. 111 00:06:08,369 --> 00:06:10,328 It was sort of agreed pretty quickly 112 00:06:10,329 --> 00:06:12,498 that the couch was the most important thing. 113 00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:23,794 Any time I went to a hearing at City Hall 114 00:08:23,795 --> 00:08:26,339 for a new real estate development, 115 00:08:26,340 --> 00:08:30,844 this term of "underutilized space" kept coming up. 116 00:08:31,637 --> 00:08:34,388 It was almost like it was a moral obligation 117 00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:36,265 on the part of the developers 118 00:08:36,266 --> 00:08:39,101 to tap into this underutilized space. 119 00:08:39,102 --> 00:08:41,354 It was almost like a crime. 120 00:08:41,355 --> 00:08:43,564 "We must extend our progress, 121 00:08:43,565 --> 00:08:47,401 and it must fill in every gap and crevice in the city 122 00:08:47,402 --> 00:08:50,071 until there's a seamless development." 123 00:08:50,072 --> 00:08:53,241 And so this was like a funny way of like itching back 124 00:08:53,242 --> 00:08:55,159 at that, of like, "Well, we found some space." 125 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,663 We need to develop this underutilized space. 126 00:09:00,999 --> 00:09:02,708 And I remember having this funny, 127 00:09:02,709 --> 00:09:07,296 jokey conversation about being micro developers. 128 00:09:07,297 --> 00:09:09,882 You know, that seemed really funny to us 129 00:09:09,883 --> 00:09:11,467 that we would become developers, 130 00:09:11,468 --> 00:09:13,929 but just for 750 square feet. 131 00:09:17,057 --> 00:09:20,101 We put a bunch of ideas on the table, 132 00:09:20,102 --> 00:09:22,728 some of them absolutely ridiculous, you know, 133 00:09:22,729 --> 00:09:24,730 even about opening up our own store. 134 00:09:24,731 --> 00:09:26,357 We're like, "How would anybody visit it?" 135 00:09:26,358 --> 00:09:28,442 And we're like, "We can just build a condominium, 136 00:09:28,443 --> 00:09:30,070 like right here." 137 00:09:36,577 --> 00:09:37,995 PlayStation. 138 00:09:39,788 --> 00:09:42,331 And, like, the couch, 139 00:09:42,332 --> 00:09:46,127 is the thing that sort of made it a home immediately. 140 00:10:11,028 --> 00:10:12,695 Providence had at one time 141 00:10:12,696 --> 00:10:15,656 been one of the wealthiest cities in the United States, 142 00:10:15,657 --> 00:10:16,949 and after World War II, 143 00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:18,826 inexorable decline began to happen. 144 00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:20,328 Providence seemed little more 145 00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:22,288 than a parking lot by day 146 00:10:22,289 --> 00:10:24,206 and an abandoned city by night. 147 00:10:24,207 --> 00:10:27,168 Serious decline soon created an uninviting, 148 00:10:27,169 --> 00:10:28,753 neglected environment. 149 00:10:28,754 --> 00:10:31,881 It wasn't until in the mid 1980s, late 1980s, 150 00:10:31,882 --> 00:10:34,925 that the idea of a mall became the centerpiece 151 00:10:34,926 --> 00:10:38,846 of the whole Providence Renaissance. 152 00:10:38,847 --> 00:10:40,556 You wanted retail to come back. 153 00:10:40,557 --> 00:10:42,224 You wanted performing and visual arts. 154 00:10:42,225 --> 00:10:44,935 You wanted all the things that Providence had been known for, 155 00:10:44,936 --> 00:10:47,855 all of those things that would make Providence a destination 156 00:10:47,856 --> 00:10:52,401 and not just a drive-through to another major city. 157 00:10:52,402 --> 00:10:56,864 The Providence Place Mall was considered to be 158 00:10:56,865 --> 00:11:00,493 a major new engine 159 00:11:00,494 --> 00:11:03,579 to help the revitalization effort take place. 160 00:11:03,580 --> 00:11:09,960 The city had began to lose its retailing sales 161 00:11:09,961 --> 00:11:14,006 to the surrounding suburban areas. 162 00:11:14,007 --> 00:11:16,175 But the mall did not happen overnight. 163 00:11:16,176 --> 00:11:20,012 It took years and multiple administrations 164 00:11:20,013 --> 00:11:21,555 in order for this to occur. 165 00:11:21,556 --> 00:11:23,433 It was a major building. 166 00:11:24,685 --> 00:11:26,811 While the mall was being built, 167 00:11:26,812 --> 00:11:28,938 I really started to internalize 168 00:11:28,939 --> 00:11:31,273 its impact on this city 169 00:11:31,274 --> 00:11:33,567 because all of a sudden I literally couldn't see 170 00:11:33,568 --> 00:11:35,319 the city anymore. 171 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,489 Look at this giant. 172 00:11:38,490 --> 00:11:42,785 Look at this thing. It's totally overpowering. 173 00:11:42,786 --> 00:11:46,163 It looks like something out of a science fiction movie. 174 00:11:46,164 --> 00:11:49,583 You got the statehouse, you can't even see it anymore. 175 00:11:49,584 --> 00:11:51,836 They practically buried it. 176 00:11:51,837 --> 00:11:55,423 I mean, it was no small task to move the rivers 177 00:11:55,424 --> 00:11:57,174 and to move the railroad tracks, 178 00:11:57,175 --> 00:12:01,011 but I think it began to show that things were happening. 179 00:12:01,012 --> 00:12:02,680 I remember the preview event 180 00:12:02,681 --> 00:12:05,307 and everybody coming from all parts of New England. 181 00:12:05,308 --> 00:12:07,269 It wasn't even just Rhode Island. 182 00:12:10,731 --> 00:12:12,648 This is a large mall. Am I correct? 183 00:12:12,649 --> 00:12:15,651 Oh, definitely. You know, 3.5 million square feet. 184 00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:17,111 You don't get this type of mall 185 00:12:17,112 --> 00:12:18,404 in any city and everything. 186 00:12:18,405 --> 00:12:19,989 It's very unique. 187 00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:21,783 It makes this a destination city. 188 00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:25,202 So having this big mall 189 00:12:25,203 --> 00:12:26,787 that represented a big investment. 190 00:12:26,788 --> 00:12:29,248 It was kind of like a new face for Providence. 191 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:32,376 I think that was more probably something 192 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:34,545 that was aligned with what politicians wanted, 193 00:12:34,546 --> 00:12:36,881 but not necessarily for the communities, 194 00:12:36,882 --> 00:12:38,674 especially the adjacent communities. 195 00:12:38,675 --> 00:12:40,509 We all hated them all when it went up, right? 196 00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:43,804 Nobody wanted that to happen. It was infuriating. 197 00:12:43,805 --> 00:12:46,432 Instead of putting the money into downtown in general 198 00:12:46,433 --> 00:12:48,559 and supporting the businesses that were already here, 199 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,685 they built that monstrosity. 200 00:12:49,686 --> 00:12:51,187 We hated it. 201 00:12:51,188 --> 00:12:53,564 And then as they started to sort of 202 00:12:53,565 --> 00:12:56,276 shore up the side facing our neighborhood, 203 00:12:56,902 --> 00:13:00,571 I realized like, wait, there's no entrances for us. 204 00:13:00,572 --> 00:13:03,824 This whole thing faces the east side. 205 00:13:03,825 --> 00:13:07,077 It wasn't designed to be used 206 00:13:07,078 --> 00:13:09,246 by the people from this neighborhood. 207 00:13:09,247 --> 00:13:10,748 In a way, it's like drawing a boundary 208 00:13:10,749 --> 00:13:12,958 in between a premium Providence 209 00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:15,461 and then just like, you know, the unattractive, 210 00:13:15,462 --> 00:13:17,923 kind of historically excluded Providence. 211 00:13:44,783 --> 00:13:47,201 By the time the mall opened, 212 00:13:47,202 --> 00:13:53,415 there was a sense that more changes were coming our way. 213 00:13:53,416 --> 00:13:58,254 And there was a sense of impending doom. 214 00:13:58,255 --> 00:14:00,339 Even before the Providence Place Mall is complete, 215 00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:02,174 developers are getting ready to build 216 00:14:02,175 --> 00:14:03,676 Providence Marketplace. 217 00:14:03,677 --> 00:14:06,053 Even while scaffolding still scales 218 00:14:06,054 --> 00:14:09,890 the Providence Place Mall, another huge project, 219 00:14:09,891 --> 00:14:11,225 is in the works. 220 00:14:11,226 --> 00:14:13,978 The Providence Place Mall 221 00:14:13,979 --> 00:14:17,147 opened August of 1999, 222 00:14:17,148 --> 00:14:21,402 and shortly after, a developer came to the mills spaces 223 00:14:21,403 --> 00:14:22,903 that we were living in 224 00:14:22,904 --> 00:14:27,199 and put a proposal out that perhaps the best way 225 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,034 to serve this neighborhood 226 00:14:29,035 --> 00:14:33,914 was to knock down every single mill in a 13-acre area 227 00:14:33,915 --> 00:14:37,334 and replace it with a strip mall and a supermarket. 228 00:14:37,335 --> 00:14:39,211 So one of those buildings they wanted to knock down 229 00:14:39,212 --> 00:14:40,297 was Fort Thunder. 230 00:14:44,968 --> 00:14:48,637 So behind the mall we see the skeleton 231 00:14:48,638 --> 00:14:50,472 of the industrial revolution. 232 00:14:50,473 --> 00:14:52,808 It is mill building after mill building. 233 00:14:52,809 --> 00:14:56,145 And in the middle of all this mill building mess 234 00:14:56,146 --> 00:14:58,022 is called Eagle Square. 235 00:14:58,023 --> 00:14:59,857 And in the heart of Eagle Square 236 00:14:59,858 --> 00:15:02,818 was a place called Fort Thunder. 237 00:15:02,819 --> 00:15:04,737 And I was very fortunate 238 00:15:04,738 --> 00:15:06,405 to live there for a couple of years. 239 00:15:06,406 --> 00:15:09,366 Well, Fort Thunder was a mill space. 240 00:15:09,367 --> 00:15:13,370 It lasted, I think, from '95 to like 2001. 241 00:15:13,371 --> 00:15:15,664 It started out with four of us renting this space. 242 00:15:15,665 --> 00:15:17,791 My band Lightning Bolt needed a place to practice 243 00:15:17,792 --> 00:15:19,043 and we wanted to have shows. 244 00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:31,805 The history of that area, 245 00:15:31,806 --> 00:15:35,559 the history of, is a really specific history 246 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,020 that you'll see throughout New England. 247 00:15:38,021 --> 00:15:39,855 There were these factories, 248 00:15:39,856 --> 00:15:41,190 people would live in the neighborhoods. 249 00:15:41,191 --> 00:15:43,108 And then when the manufacturing sector 250 00:15:43,109 --> 00:15:45,110 was destroyed in the United States, 251 00:15:45,111 --> 00:15:46,779 it destroyed these neighborhoods. 252 00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:48,280 So if you were going to Fort Thunder 253 00:15:48,281 --> 00:15:50,199 for the first time, it was scary. 254 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,117 It was sort of like this secret playhouse for a while. 255 00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:54,161 They just wanted to have fun. They wanted to create. 256 00:15:54,162 --> 00:15:57,373 They wanted to have their own world there. 257 00:15:57,374 --> 00:15:59,541 You know, museums were like crypts, 258 00:15:59,542 --> 00:16:01,418 graveyards for art. 259 00:16:01,419 --> 00:16:04,213 And our house was like a living art creature 260 00:16:04,214 --> 00:16:05,798 that we lived within. 261 00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,384 I think it was like emboldening, in a way, 262 00:16:08,385 --> 00:16:12,054 to have this kind of like wild, untamed space, 263 00:16:12,055 --> 00:16:13,973 just like living this really loud-- 264 00:16:13,974 --> 00:16:15,517 literally, like very loud. 265 00:16:23,858 --> 00:16:25,317 So living in Fort Thunder 266 00:16:25,318 --> 00:16:28,988 is that sense of no routine, 267 00:16:28,989 --> 00:16:31,573 but a great sense of purpose. 268 00:16:31,574 --> 00:16:33,158 And then, you know, 269 00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:37,454 within a year of that super heyday, 270 00:16:37,455 --> 00:16:38,748 a developer came in. 271 00:16:40,667 --> 00:16:42,584 People started getting kicked out. 272 00:16:42,585 --> 00:16:45,672 And the city just started looking at that area. 273 00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:50,718 These developers saw a great opportunity for themselves 274 00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:53,846 because they knew that they could buy these buildings 275 00:16:53,847 --> 00:16:55,724 and knock them down. 276 00:17:04,107 --> 00:17:06,650 The developer was just looking at it 277 00:17:06,651 --> 00:17:08,777 as if it was any old parcel 278 00:17:08,778 --> 00:17:12,448 that could become a suburban strip mall. 279 00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:14,158 I mean, it's just an algorithm. 280 00:17:14,159 --> 00:17:16,410 They're like, "Oh, there's room for a supermarket here 281 00:17:16,411 --> 00:17:18,328 because the property value is so cheap. 282 00:17:18,329 --> 00:17:20,622 All we have to do is knock down all these buildings." 283 00:17:20,623 --> 00:17:23,208 There was no outreach to the community 284 00:17:23,209 --> 00:17:25,127 to talk about, like, rent control 285 00:17:25,128 --> 00:17:28,255 and how under resourced the community was. 286 00:17:28,256 --> 00:17:30,049 It's okay. Like, change happens. 287 00:17:30,050 --> 00:17:34,970 There's nothing inherently wrong or evil about it. 288 00:17:34,971 --> 00:17:39,725 But there was no effort to bring people along. 289 00:17:39,726 --> 00:17:41,643 And I think that, in a way, 290 00:17:41,644 --> 00:17:43,812 Fort Thunder was like the first strike. 291 00:17:43,813 --> 00:17:45,439 And I think the real estate developers 292 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,899 were just starting to understand 293 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:49,277 that there was so much to exploit. 294 00:18:18,014 --> 00:18:21,350 When the Eagle Square fiasco was unfolding, 295 00:18:21,351 --> 00:18:27,314 the mall becomes this sort of cultural enemy. 296 00:18:27,315 --> 00:18:30,234 It becomes a sort of ogre in the cave 297 00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:32,861 that the townsfolks are afraid of. 298 00:18:32,862 --> 00:18:34,446 They're not sure how big it is, 299 00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:36,490 but they just know it's nasty. 300 00:18:36,491 --> 00:18:40,244 And so that tension just boils over 301 00:18:40,245 --> 00:18:43,372 as soon as an actual person comes in and says, 302 00:18:43,373 --> 00:18:45,583 "I'm gonna knock down your home." 303 00:18:50,296 --> 00:18:52,422 People being evicted, people losing their spaces, 304 00:18:52,423 --> 00:18:55,592 people getting kicked out, people getting priced out 305 00:18:55,593 --> 00:18:57,845 was just sort of something kind of happening. 306 00:18:57,846 --> 00:18:59,847 The mall comes, totally remakes your neighborhood, 307 00:18:59,848 --> 00:19:01,598 you adjust. 308 00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:03,809 It doesn't adjust to you. You adjust to it. 309 00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:05,644 And it was impossible 310 00:19:05,645 --> 00:19:09,607 to not see the apartment project through that lens. 311 00:19:12,485 --> 00:19:13,987 Thank you. 312 00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:18,282 Thank you very much. Thanks. 313 00:19:18,283 --> 00:19:19,534 All right. 314 00:19:42,974 --> 00:19:45,684 By this stage, the group of people 315 00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:48,604 invited into the space had grown from four to eight, 316 00:19:48,605 --> 00:19:52,065 and occasionally a few of us would sleep there. 317 00:19:52,066 --> 00:19:55,444 But for the most part it was a fantastic place 318 00:19:55,445 --> 00:19:57,530 to just meet and hang out. 319 00:20:03,578 --> 00:20:04,703 The mall project, I think, 320 00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:07,956 it emerged fairly organically. 321 00:20:07,957 --> 00:20:10,751 The main person who really started the project 322 00:20:10,752 --> 00:20:12,878 and who had the initial idea was Mike. 323 00:20:12,879 --> 00:20:15,339 It wasn't as though Mike sat down and was like, 324 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:17,633 "I got to assemble a supergroup of people 325 00:20:17,634 --> 00:20:20,177 in order to, like, create this artists collective 326 00:20:20,178 --> 00:20:22,012 that will be a public-facing thing." 327 00:20:24,098 --> 00:20:26,183 As with other projects that Mike has done, 328 00:20:26,184 --> 00:20:27,434 he wanted to involve the people 329 00:20:27,435 --> 00:20:29,019 who are in his life in it. 330 00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:30,979 He wanted to make it a group project. 331 00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:32,940 Sort of notion of consistency. 332 00:20:32,941 --> 00:20:36,318 Michael was the thread that connected everybody. 333 00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:39,821 A lot of folks he met through his time teaching, 334 00:20:39,822 --> 00:20:41,281 and so they were students, 335 00:20:41,282 --> 00:20:42,574 former students of his. 336 00:20:42,575 --> 00:20:44,743 He and Adriana were married, 337 00:20:44,744 --> 00:20:48,747 and then the two of us were in this grad program together. 338 00:20:48,748 --> 00:20:51,583 Everyone was sort of very driven, 339 00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:54,461 but we were all real sort of nerdy and weird. 340 00:20:54,462 --> 00:20:57,382 That group felt really at home. 341 00:20:58,299 --> 00:21:00,635 We all felt really fun together. 342 00:21:02,220 --> 00:21:04,680 It just sounds like such a magic thing 343 00:21:04,681 --> 00:21:08,016 to take a space from the mall. 344 00:21:08,017 --> 00:21:09,559 Like, it seems like you shouldn't be able 345 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,728 to pull it off. 346 00:21:11,729 --> 00:21:13,146 So trying to pull it off, 347 00:21:13,147 --> 00:21:15,483 it feels like somebody needs to do it. 348 00:21:18,695 --> 00:21:20,445 This was our group project 349 00:21:20,446 --> 00:21:22,531 and it was like a secret, right? 350 00:21:22,532 --> 00:21:24,116 And it was a secret pact. 351 00:21:24,117 --> 00:21:26,285 One, two, three. 352 00:21:26,286 --> 00:21:32,749 The big rule was to not bring people from outside. 353 00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:35,294 So it was intended to be 354 00:21:35,295 --> 00:21:38,172 a fairly exclusive club, I suppose. 355 00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:46,138 So there's this core team of eight artists. 356 00:21:46,139 --> 00:21:49,808 That is essentially the brain trust for the creation of it 357 00:21:49,809 --> 00:21:51,143 and the curation of it 358 00:21:51,144 --> 00:21:52,894 and the knowledge of the mall space. 359 00:24:33,848 --> 00:24:36,600 You know, there's art that you see and you enjoy 360 00:24:36,601 --> 00:24:38,018 and it entertains you. 361 00:24:38,019 --> 00:24:41,646 And then there's art that impacts you. 362 00:24:41,647 --> 00:24:44,274 And that's the kind of piece this was. 363 00:24:44,275 --> 00:24:49,237 It had an impact that was both emotional and psychological 364 00:24:49,238 --> 00:24:55,452 and is not easily described, which my favorite kind of art. 365 00:24:55,453 --> 00:24:57,746 My friend was like, "Hey, you got to go see this. 366 00:24:57,747 --> 00:25:00,040 There's like underneath the train tracks, 367 00:25:00,041 --> 00:25:01,416 there's actually like this, like, 368 00:25:01,417 --> 00:25:04,878 weird, creepy art exhibit that, like, 369 00:25:04,879 --> 00:25:07,631 felt like it was a mystery who made it." 370 00:25:07,632 --> 00:25:10,383 So I actually had no idea at the time 371 00:25:10,384 --> 00:25:12,219 anything about why it was there. 372 00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:15,138 You opened up a hatch and climbed down into-- 373 00:25:15,139 --> 00:25:18,099 was like a sewer grate, basically. 374 00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:21,561 And then kind of traverse these few tunnels, 375 00:25:21,562 --> 00:25:24,272 and then it opened up into a bigger open space, 376 00:25:24,273 --> 00:25:25,941 super wet, dank. 377 00:25:25,942 --> 00:25:28,485 But then there were these sculptures of human bodies 378 00:25:28,486 --> 00:25:30,570 suspended all throughout the space, 379 00:25:30,571 --> 00:25:33,156 and you could walk through and sort of interact with them 380 00:25:33,157 --> 00:25:34,366 on your own terms. 381 00:25:34,367 --> 00:25:35,784 There's no signage. 382 00:25:35,785 --> 00:25:37,160 There's nobody telling you anything 383 00:25:37,161 --> 00:25:38,913 about what you're experiencing. 384 00:25:46,170 --> 00:25:49,297 There's one day when I spent 385 00:25:49,298 --> 00:25:51,258 a really long time looking for it, 386 00:25:51,259 --> 00:25:53,218 and I couldn't figure out how to get into it, 387 00:25:53,219 --> 00:25:55,262 but I never-- and I never figured it out. 388 00:25:55,263 --> 00:25:58,557 I think you had to, like, go between the train tracks. 389 00:25:58,558 --> 00:26:00,058 I'm not even sure, actually, where the entrance 390 00:26:00,059 --> 00:26:01,477 to the tunnel was now. 391 00:26:02,937 --> 00:26:03,979 I think that the body tunnel, 392 00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:05,480 you could call it a stunt, 393 00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:08,358 you could call it an installation art piece. 394 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,861 What makes it art for me is that it asks me 395 00:26:11,862 --> 00:26:13,863 to imagine a setting for art 396 00:26:13,864 --> 00:26:15,198 that was not the setting 397 00:26:15,199 --> 00:26:16,909 that I had been told art happened in. 398 00:26:22,582 --> 00:26:25,125 I'm not sure when I put two and two together 399 00:26:25,126 --> 00:26:26,793 that it was Mike's piece. 400 00:26:26,794 --> 00:26:28,670 I think that probably came much later. 401 00:26:28,671 --> 00:26:31,965 But, like, I just remember, you know, that was like 402 00:26:31,966 --> 00:26:34,426 one of my favorite secret spots 403 00:26:34,427 --> 00:26:36,052 in Providence to take people. 404 00:26:36,053 --> 00:26:38,597 And I think Michael was very discreet about it. 405 00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:41,433 I don't think he was promoting it. 406 00:26:41,434 --> 00:26:43,935 Him finding that tunnel was, I think, an offshoot 407 00:26:43,936 --> 00:26:46,354 of just like all of us exploring 408 00:26:46,355 --> 00:26:49,274 just whatever we could find. 409 00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:51,610 But where we were mostly just exploring stuff, 410 00:26:51,611 --> 00:26:55,196 Michael was sort of putting his artistic practice, 411 00:26:55,197 --> 00:26:56,489 like, into those spaces, 412 00:26:56,490 --> 00:26:58,825 like, putting things in the spaces 413 00:26:58,826 --> 00:27:01,494 and messing around with the spaces. 414 00:27:01,495 --> 00:27:03,205 He's always been an inspiration. 415 00:27:22,516 --> 00:27:24,476 I went to the RISD summer program, 416 00:27:24,477 --> 00:27:26,812 and Mike was my drawing teacher. 417 00:27:28,648 --> 00:27:30,733 He did something very rare and very unusual, 418 00:27:30,983 --> 00:27:32,567 which was that he expected you 419 00:27:32,568 --> 00:27:34,362 to have a genuine personal connection 420 00:27:34,654 --> 00:27:36,279 to the work that you made. 421 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,156 It was a way of living, 422 00:27:38,157 --> 00:27:41,660 not some sort of produced object that can be seen, 423 00:27:41,661 --> 00:27:44,079 you know, in a museum or something like that. 424 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,664 Most of us-- myself certainly-- 425 00:27:45,665 --> 00:27:47,165 came to that program thinking 426 00:27:47,166 --> 00:27:49,834 art is a thing you do on paper. 427 00:27:49,835 --> 00:27:52,337 And Mike exploded our understanding 428 00:27:52,338 --> 00:27:53,880 of what art is or could be. 429 00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:59,219 So it was the start of a decade of life 430 00:27:59,220 --> 00:28:03,098 that has had a massive impact on me, yeah. 431 00:28:03,099 --> 00:28:05,600 Mike was like a super involved teacher, 432 00:28:05,601 --> 00:28:07,852 like, different than any teacher I had had 433 00:28:07,853 --> 00:28:10,563 up until that point, for sure. 434 00:28:10,564 --> 00:28:14,442 He kind of approached art in a different way, definitely, 435 00:28:14,443 --> 00:28:17,654 than anything like I'd been exposed to before, 436 00:28:17,655 --> 00:28:20,740 where it was kind of like, 437 00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:22,909 what do you actually want to make and why? 438 00:28:22,910 --> 00:28:24,911 What Michael was able to introduce to me, 439 00:28:24,912 --> 00:28:26,663 which was so powerful at that age, 440 00:28:26,664 --> 00:28:29,040 was that I could, uh-- 441 00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:30,875 I could actually just look inside myself 442 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,587 and find things that were worth sharing. 443 00:28:35,339 --> 00:28:36,798 So, yes, like that-- 444 00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,343 that class with Mike helped to galvanize me 445 00:28:40,344 --> 00:28:42,637 to find my way to publicly engaged work. 446 00:28:42,638 --> 00:28:44,431 For Mike, the difference between 447 00:28:44,432 --> 00:28:47,809 art and life is very hard to discern. 448 00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:50,896 Art and life are two very porous things for him. 449 00:28:51,147 --> 00:28:52,939 And so he thinks of art projects 450 00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:56,359 as being sort of deeply incorporated into his life. 451 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,986 And that's something you probably will hear 452 00:28:57,987 --> 00:28:59,821 from other people, 453 00:28:59,822 --> 00:29:02,991 this "life as art, art as life" thing. 454 00:29:02,992 --> 00:29:05,243 And that's something that, like, as a young person, 455 00:29:05,244 --> 00:29:08,288 it was super impactful to see somebody 456 00:29:08,289 --> 00:29:12,292 living in a way that felt like all of it was the art. 457 00:29:12,293 --> 00:29:14,544 The secret apartment was the art, 458 00:29:14,545 --> 00:29:16,004 the teaching was the art. 459 00:29:16,005 --> 00:29:18,298 The interacting with other people was the art. 460 00:29:18,299 --> 00:29:23,094 All the stuff together is what makes life meaningful. 461 00:29:23,095 --> 00:29:24,387 And I think that's like 462 00:29:24,388 --> 00:29:25,847 something I've been trying to do 463 00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:28,559 since I was a teenager. 464 00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:47,512 So the secret apartment, 465 00:30:47,513 --> 00:30:49,139 nestled down in here, 466 00:30:50,057 --> 00:30:52,559 kind of floating above the train tracks, 467 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,895 kind of tucked in between the back side 468 00:30:55,896 --> 00:30:57,313 of all the stores. 469 00:30:57,314 --> 00:30:59,357 We had a couple different ways of getting in. 470 00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:04,487 Our exterior entrance was basically right alongside 471 00:31:04,488 --> 00:31:06,281 the train tracks. 472 00:31:06,282 --> 00:31:08,992 There was a gap in between a couple of walls 473 00:31:08,993 --> 00:31:11,744 that would allow you to get into 474 00:31:11,745 --> 00:31:14,414 the bowels of the building, pretty much, 475 00:31:14,415 --> 00:31:16,207 and we were able to shimmy along some walls 476 00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:20,004 to get access to where the space was. 477 00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:24,090 Additionally, we could get into 478 00:31:24,091 --> 00:31:29,095 the same zone of the mall where the secret apartment was 479 00:31:29,096 --> 00:31:32,599 basically from any emergency exit door 480 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,808 on this side of the building. 481 00:31:33,809 --> 00:31:35,476 That would lead you 482 00:31:35,477 --> 00:31:38,396 into a serpentine bunch of staircases and hallways. 483 00:31:38,397 --> 00:31:40,648 Somewhere along that serpentine path, 484 00:31:40,649 --> 00:31:42,066 there were a couple different ways 485 00:31:42,067 --> 00:31:44,445 we could access the secret apartment. 486 00:31:50,242 --> 00:31:51,826 Because this building is made of 487 00:31:51,827 --> 00:31:53,536 a bunch of really odd shapes-- 488 00:31:53,537 --> 00:31:57,540 you can see like the way that the angle follows the river 489 00:31:57,541 --> 00:32:00,001 and the way that that curve follows the highway. 490 00:32:00,002 --> 00:32:02,795 The building has a bunch of weird intersecting shapes. 491 00:32:02,796 --> 00:32:04,714 So I think the space that we discovered 492 00:32:04,715 --> 00:32:07,383 was really a negative space 493 00:32:07,384 --> 00:32:09,802 in between two planes of the building, 494 00:32:09,803 --> 00:32:11,471 which created sort of a triangle 495 00:32:11,472 --> 00:32:13,389 in between two parts of the building, 496 00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:15,725 which is where the secret apartment was. 497 00:32:15,726 --> 00:32:21,105 The food court is this sort of third level up here. 498 00:32:21,106 --> 00:32:22,523 And the bathrooms-- 499 00:32:22,524 --> 00:32:26,861 I think our most frequently used bathroom 500 00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:28,529 was on the first floor, 501 00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:31,616 sort of like the main retail drag of the mall. 502 00:32:31,617 --> 00:32:33,826 There were bathrooms on each floor. 503 00:32:33,827 --> 00:32:35,745 I feel like we used the ones on the first floor the most 504 00:32:35,746 --> 00:32:37,456 because they were closest to the entrance. 505 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:43,419 So the secret apartment being down in here, 506 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:45,922 we can have a look at it by 507 00:32:45,923 --> 00:32:50,886 taking this roof off and... 508 00:32:56,183 --> 00:32:58,476 Can pull that out. 509 00:32:58,477 --> 00:33:02,772 So there's Andrew, James, Jay, 510 00:33:02,773 --> 00:33:07,944 myself, Emily, Greta, Adriana, and Michael 511 00:33:07,945 --> 00:33:11,115 all hanging out in the space together. 512 00:33:14,576 --> 00:33:18,371 So additionally, just for fun, hidden in here 513 00:33:18,372 --> 00:33:21,582 is the Optio S5i. 514 00:33:21,583 --> 00:33:23,376 Amazingly it still works. 515 00:33:23,377 --> 00:33:25,336 Just needed a charge of the battery. 516 00:33:25,337 --> 00:33:27,005 I can probably sneak a little 517 00:33:27,006 --> 00:33:30,759 picture of the apartment or two if it'll focus. 518 00:33:48,569 --> 00:33:51,237 Once we wanted to really make this 519 00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:53,406 an apartment that was ours, 520 00:33:53,407 --> 00:33:57,243 as opposed to just a room in the mall, 521 00:33:57,244 --> 00:33:59,579 we decided we needed to make it 522 00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:01,122 so we had access to it 523 00:34:01,123 --> 00:34:03,166 without having other people have access to it. 524 00:34:03,167 --> 00:34:07,211 So the apartment in the mall had this big gaping space 525 00:34:07,212 --> 00:34:10,173 that looked down into a storage area. 526 00:34:10,174 --> 00:34:13,176 You would come up this steep metal staircase 527 00:34:13,177 --> 00:34:14,969 and you would just be looking into the apartment. 528 00:34:14,970 --> 00:34:18,682 So there was a real necessity to build a wall there. 529 00:34:43,123 --> 00:34:45,958 Building a wall was going to be the thing 530 00:34:45,959 --> 00:34:49,212 that made it even more invisible, in the sense that, 531 00:34:49,213 --> 00:34:52,799 like, another cinder-block wall with another door 532 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,217 just becomes another thing 533 00:34:54,218 --> 00:34:56,177 that if anyone walks through the space 534 00:34:56,178 --> 00:34:57,637 they're not gonna bat an eye at. 535 00:35:41,014 --> 00:35:43,766 Obviously, the main feat of that whole thing 536 00:35:43,767 --> 00:35:45,893 was just moving that many cinder blocks. 537 00:35:45,894 --> 00:35:47,103 I think, you know, we calculated 538 00:35:47,104 --> 00:35:48,563 it was like, you know, 539 00:35:48,564 --> 00:35:51,440 4,500 or 5,000 pounds of cinder blocks. 540 00:35:51,441 --> 00:35:53,067 So that was, you know, a couple of tons. 541 00:36:38,780 --> 00:36:40,448 In regards to security, 542 00:36:40,449 --> 00:36:42,408 we were thinking about it all the time. 543 00:36:42,409 --> 00:36:45,411 They're a constant presence in our mind. 544 00:36:45,412 --> 00:36:47,288 But it's important to emphasize 545 00:36:47,289 --> 00:36:49,999 that there's no-- no part of me 546 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,877 that has any interest in duping security. 547 00:36:52,878 --> 00:36:57,590 I don't-- I don't feel any thrill in that. 548 00:36:57,591 --> 00:37:00,718 They have a job to do. I respect that job. 549 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,888 I also just want to do my job. 550 00:37:57,943 --> 00:38:01,320 There was no way to prepare for it. 551 00:38:01,321 --> 00:38:03,531 Like, we didn't know what circumstances 552 00:38:03,532 --> 00:38:05,950 would trigger us being caught. 553 00:38:05,951 --> 00:38:09,954 We had no idea who would approach us or, uh, 554 00:38:09,955 --> 00:38:13,332 and what level of hostility it would be. 555 00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:17,920 We just would be ready to explain ourselves 556 00:38:17,921 --> 00:38:19,422 in whatever moment unfolded. 557 00:38:19,423 --> 00:38:22,967 Now, I have, up until that point, 558 00:38:22,968 --> 00:38:25,845 a career in explaining myself. 559 00:38:25,846 --> 00:38:28,097 My work as an artist 560 00:38:28,098 --> 00:38:32,101 means that I am constantly explaining my presence 561 00:38:32,102 --> 00:38:35,521 to police officers, to city officials. 562 00:38:35,522 --> 00:38:38,607 It is a space I feel very comfortable in. 563 00:38:38,608 --> 00:38:42,028 You know, we were on a multileg journey 564 00:38:42,029 --> 00:38:43,988 coming from Home Depot. 565 00:38:43,989 --> 00:38:45,656 You know, we got these cinder blocks at Home Depot, 566 00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:47,241 and now we're going to the mall. 567 00:39:14,186 --> 00:39:17,063 So, yeah, it's, uh, kind of amazing. 568 00:39:17,064 --> 00:39:19,357 I told this security guard 569 00:39:19,358 --> 00:39:20,775 that we had gone to Home Depot, 570 00:39:20,776 --> 00:39:22,443 filled the car with cinder blocks, 571 00:39:22,444 --> 00:39:24,528 come to the mall, had done some shopping, 572 00:39:24,529 --> 00:39:28,407 and came back to a car that could not move. 573 00:39:28,408 --> 00:39:30,993 So we had arranged to move the cinder blocks 574 00:39:30,994 --> 00:39:33,662 down the stairwell to an awaiting friend's truck, 575 00:39:33,663 --> 00:39:36,999 and he let us on our way. 576 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,755 And I know that has a lot to do with just who we were. 577 00:39:43,298 --> 00:39:45,674 I'm certain, looking back on it, 578 00:39:45,675 --> 00:39:49,054 that we had like a shield of white privilege around us. 579 00:39:54,851 --> 00:39:57,728 Black and brown people in the same space 580 00:39:57,729 --> 00:40:00,648 doing illegal things, or doing even not illegal things, 581 00:40:00,649 --> 00:40:02,817 are not treated that way and would not be treated 582 00:40:02,818 --> 00:40:05,612 with the same deference as we were. 583 00:40:10,951 --> 00:40:14,745 My fear of the police is not the same. 584 00:40:14,746 --> 00:40:18,040 I'm not worried about risk to my body and life. 585 00:40:30,554 --> 00:40:32,263 You know, simultaneously to this, 586 00:40:32,264 --> 00:40:37,518 I was working with Mike on Tape Art, 587 00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:41,897 uh, which is Mike's sort of organization 588 00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:43,774 that will go around and do public murals, 589 00:40:43,775 --> 00:40:46,902 do temporary public murals made out of masking tape. 590 00:40:46,903 --> 00:40:48,738 One of the more notable ones was going 591 00:40:49,322 --> 00:40:52,325 to Hasbro Children's Hospital and making murals there. 592 00:40:55,287 --> 00:40:58,914 I first became aware of Tape Art 593 00:40:58,915 --> 00:41:01,459 and heard about Michael 594 00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:03,586 through probably some artist friends, 595 00:41:03,587 --> 00:41:05,337 that there was some guy out there 596 00:41:05,338 --> 00:41:08,757 who was using tape and drawing on the wall. 597 00:41:08,758 --> 00:41:11,886 And I thought, "I don't know. This is... 598 00:41:11,887 --> 00:41:16,056 Sounds quirky and kooky, and what does he do? 599 00:41:16,057 --> 00:41:19,059 I mean, how is this gonna appeal to kids?" 600 00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:21,563 So I had a lot of questions. 601 00:41:23,315 --> 00:41:27,151 Tape art is a unique process. 602 00:41:27,152 --> 00:41:29,069 I don't know any other artists, frankly, 603 00:41:29,070 --> 00:41:30,404 who are doing tape art. 604 00:41:30,405 --> 00:41:32,239 Michael was the first one I met, 605 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:34,074 and I've never met anybody since. 606 00:41:34,075 --> 00:41:36,994 I think I was fascinated by the uniqueness. 607 00:41:36,995 --> 00:41:41,665 So the more I watched him, the more I realized that, 608 00:41:41,666 --> 00:41:45,669 you know, he was truly a master. 609 00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:48,589 The patients' immediate reaction is, 610 00:41:48,590 --> 00:41:51,008 first of all, they're very open to something new. 611 00:41:51,009 --> 00:41:53,469 And it was, again, a little odd. 612 00:41:53,470 --> 00:41:56,096 It wasn't somebody coming in with drawing paper 613 00:41:56,097 --> 00:41:57,807 and a brush or crayons. 614 00:41:58,391 --> 00:42:00,726 It was somebody coming in with five rolls of blue tape 615 00:42:00,727 --> 00:42:03,687 on his arm and swinging them around. 616 00:42:03,688 --> 00:42:05,606 And then the kid would often say, 617 00:42:05,607 --> 00:42:07,608 "Oh, you know, what's going on? 618 00:42:07,609 --> 00:42:09,318 What are you gonna do with that tape?" 619 00:42:09,319 --> 00:42:11,196 And Michael would take it from there. 620 00:42:20,413 --> 00:42:23,792 Michael did have a crew of people. 621 00:42:32,884 --> 00:42:34,094 You know, what they drew, 622 00:42:34,386 --> 00:42:37,888 the mice and the horses and the mermaids, 623 00:42:37,889 --> 00:42:39,765 it was that they were able to 624 00:42:39,766 --> 00:42:44,478 engage the child in conversation about, 625 00:42:44,479 --> 00:42:46,355 "What do you want on your wall?" 626 00:42:46,356 --> 00:42:49,525 so that when Michael and his team walked into the room, 627 00:42:49,526 --> 00:42:52,987 he didn't come in with an idea of what he was gonna do. 628 00:42:52,988 --> 00:42:55,447 He let the child lead him. 629 00:42:55,448 --> 00:42:58,659 And when possible, of course, if the patient was mobile, 630 00:42:58,660 --> 00:43:01,579 they'd engage the patient in actually helping him 631 00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:04,206 to create the mural. 632 00:43:04,207 --> 00:43:07,126 But now the patient is involved 633 00:43:07,127 --> 00:43:09,712 in a creative activity 634 00:43:09,713 --> 00:43:12,298 and has a responsibility to seeing 635 00:43:12,299 --> 00:43:14,592 what's happening on the wall of his room 636 00:43:14,593 --> 00:43:19,471 and changing his environment, having a sense of control. 637 00:43:19,472 --> 00:43:23,058 So I think that the patient just got lost. 638 00:43:23,059 --> 00:43:26,353 Could be for 15 minutes and it could have been, 639 00:43:26,354 --> 00:43:28,565 you know, for a couple of hours. 640 00:43:31,276 --> 00:43:35,321 Michael was coming in at least once a week, 641 00:43:35,322 --> 00:43:38,824 and he was one of the first people that I hired. 642 00:43:38,825 --> 00:43:40,784 So I would say he was, yeah, 643 00:43:40,785 --> 00:43:44,080 he was here for at least 15 years. 644 00:43:47,834 --> 00:43:51,003 Funding was tough, but free lunch was provided. 645 00:43:51,004 --> 00:43:53,213 If they came in the morning, they could stay for lunch. 646 00:43:53,214 --> 00:43:55,924 If they came in the afternoon, they could come early 647 00:43:55,925 --> 00:43:59,720 and we always provided a free lunch for them. 648 00:43:59,721 --> 00:44:02,681 And I think they were pretty grateful for that 649 00:44:02,682 --> 00:44:04,933 because I don't think many of them-- 650 00:44:04,934 --> 00:44:06,603 I don't think they ate during the day. 651 00:44:08,021 --> 00:44:11,231 I think one of the first questions kids and staff 652 00:44:11,232 --> 00:44:13,525 and families always asked, 653 00:44:13,526 --> 00:44:15,944 "What's gonna happen to this mural now 654 00:44:15,945 --> 00:44:17,488 that's on the wall?" 655 00:44:17,489 --> 00:44:21,492 And Michael always made it very clear 656 00:44:21,493 --> 00:44:23,410 that there was an impermanence, 657 00:44:23,411 --> 00:44:26,455 and it was really for the here and now. 658 00:44:26,456 --> 00:44:29,583 He said, you know, "We'll create a new one tomorrow, 659 00:44:29,584 --> 00:44:31,419 think of something new that we could do." 660 00:44:41,346 --> 00:44:43,597 So Michael had an interesting beginning. 661 00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:45,349 Because his father was in the Marine Corps, 662 00:44:45,350 --> 00:44:48,227 we lived in eight different places 663 00:44:48,228 --> 00:44:51,021 before he was seven years old. 664 00:44:51,022 --> 00:44:52,981 I think it made him very open-minded. 665 00:44:52,982 --> 00:44:57,778 I think Michael takes in all kinds of people, 666 00:44:57,779 --> 00:45:01,198 all kinds of social situations. 667 00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:05,077 So, basically, I think that's what's made him 668 00:45:05,078 --> 00:45:07,287 someone who's at home anywhere. 669 00:45:07,288 --> 00:45:09,790 So let's get you this one 670 00:45:09,791 --> 00:45:11,458 and this one, the blue one. 671 00:45:11,459 --> 00:45:14,962 Basically it's like a form of like, of... 672 00:45:14,963 --> 00:45:16,797 - Temporary graffiti. - Temporary graffiti. 673 00:45:16,798 --> 00:45:19,383 And it gives you a lot of freedom. 674 00:45:19,384 --> 00:45:21,468 So I was brought up in a military family. 675 00:45:21,469 --> 00:45:24,513 Both my parents were in the military 676 00:45:24,514 --> 00:45:26,140 and their parents were in the military, 677 00:45:26,141 --> 00:45:27,975 and I believe their parents were in the military. 678 00:45:27,976 --> 00:45:30,352 So my brother and I were the first ones to sort of, uh, 679 00:45:30,353 --> 00:45:31,895 break that lineage. 680 00:45:31,896 --> 00:45:35,608 In Mike's case, um, hmm... 681 00:45:36,609 --> 00:45:39,528 I don't want to speak for him, but it just was never-- 682 00:45:39,529 --> 00:45:41,238 never seemed like it would be a good fit for him. 683 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,992 He was far too creative growing up, 684 00:45:44,993 --> 00:45:46,785 and I think a military career would have restricted 685 00:45:46,786 --> 00:45:49,873 his level of creativity that just abounded. 686 00:45:51,249 --> 00:45:53,417 No words or letters are the only rule. 687 00:45:53,418 --> 00:45:55,169 Good luck. Let's work on that together. 688 00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:58,130 Make sure you got that one technique down. 689 00:45:58,131 --> 00:46:01,175 Don't pull it. Just let it hang. 690 00:46:01,176 --> 00:46:02,843 And very gently... 691 00:46:02,844 --> 00:46:04,011 That looks really good. 692 00:46:04,012 --> 00:46:06,054 - Okay. - Yeah. Keep going, keep going. 693 00:46:06,055 --> 00:46:09,934 Michael as a person is all about 694 00:46:11,352 --> 00:46:13,395 involving people 695 00:46:13,396 --> 00:46:15,564 in a collaborative process of art. 696 00:46:15,565 --> 00:46:17,357 And I've seen that in a lot of cases 697 00:46:17,358 --> 00:46:22,905 that he's just a very selfless person. 698 00:46:22,906 --> 00:46:26,074 And that is something really-- 699 00:46:26,075 --> 00:46:29,244 yeah, that is something really special about Michael, yeah. 700 00:46:29,245 --> 00:46:31,163 So the cynic might say that you're not gonna make 701 00:46:31,164 --> 00:46:32,706 the world a better place with your art, 702 00:46:32,707 --> 00:46:34,124 but, like, maybe you're not gonna make 703 00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:36,502 the entire world a little better, 704 00:46:36,503 --> 00:46:39,296 but maybe you'll make one person's life better 705 00:46:39,297 --> 00:46:40,756 and then somebody else's life better. 706 00:46:40,757 --> 00:46:42,675 It becomes the "ripples in the pond" effect. 707 00:46:45,804 --> 00:46:49,139 So the main priorities in my career 708 00:46:49,140 --> 00:46:51,099 have always been making art and teaching art, 709 00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:54,728 and trying to use that art to have positive impacts 710 00:46:54,729 --> 00:46:56,772 on other people's lives. 711 00:46:56,773 --> 00:47:00,026 There's not a lot of money in that. 712 00:47:01,152 --> 00:47:02,820 I work at a nonprofit museum. 713 00:47:02,821 --> 00:47:04,196 Michael is an artist. 714 00:47:04,197 --> 00:47:06,824 We are not swimming in money, either of us. 715 00:47:06,825 --> 00:47:08,700 And Michael does... 716 00:47:08,701 --> 00:47:10,828 He takes it... 717 00:47:10,829 --> 00:47:13,163 Sometimes he doesn't take it seriously, 718 00:47:13,164 --> 00:47:15,290 and I've gotten upset. 719 00:47:15,291 --> 00:47:18,794 Like, he will text me pictures of his bank account 720 00:47:18,795 --> 00:47:22,172 that has 41 cents, and he thinks that's funny. 721 00:47:22,173 --> 00:47:25,259 And I see the text, and I'm like, "This is not funny." 722 00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:26,552 And I've had to talk to him about like, 723 00:47:26,553 --> 00:47:27,928 "Could you please not send me this 724 00:47:27,929 --> 00:47:29,264 when you have like a dollar?" 725 00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:32,809 Like, this doesn't make me laugh, personally. 726 00:50:17,348 --> 00:50:19,641 After we had a little run-in with security, 727 00:50:19,642 --> 00:50:22,019 that encounter forced us to rethink 728 00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:23,895 how we're bringing the cinder blocks in. 729 00:50:23,896 --> 00:50:27,400 And we're like, well, we have a private entrance. 730 00:50:29,527 --> 00:50:31,111 So the entrance we had used 731 00:50:31,112 --> 00:50:33,113 to initially discover the space 732 00:50:33,114 --> 00:50:34,740 in the first place became the way 733 00:50:34,741 --> 00:50:37,117 that we'd bring the cinder blocks in. 734 00:52:00,952 --> 00:52:04,204 So at the same time the core group of eight of us 735 00:52:04,205 --> 00:52:05,789 were working in the apartment in the mall, 736 00:52:05,790 --> 00:52:09,126 we also took a trip collectively 737 00:52:09,127 --> 00:52:12,170 to go to Oklahoma City for the 10th anniversary 738 00:52:12,171 --> 00:52:17,467 of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 739 00:52:17,468 --> 00:52:20,345 Mike was there doing tape art in Oklahoma City 740 00:52:20,346 --> 00:52:22,848 when that happened and made a mural. 741 00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:26,184 I think he was the only nonmedical personnel 742 00:52:26,185 --> 00:52:28,103 allowed in the home base 743 00:52:28,104 --> 00:52:30,939 and made a mural for the, basically, 744 00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:34,235 the sole audience of the first responders. 745 00:52:35,236 --> 00:52:37,612 Folks seem to like the idea of it being 746 00:52:37,613 --> 00:52:39,531 an optimism mural, that-- 747 00:52:39,532 --> 00:52:42,784 more about individuals being able to have 748 00:52:42,785 --> 00:52:44,452 freedom and flight, 749 00:52:44,453 --> 00:52:46,413 and maybe through the help of other people 750 00:52:46,414 --> 00:52:48,291 they can achieve that. 751 00:52:57,216 --> 00:53:00,093 So we planned a trip back to OKC, 752 00:53:00,094 --> 00:53:03,180 like on the anniversary of the bombing 753 00:53:03,181 --> 00:53:06,350 to kind of do more artwork with the community. 754 00:53:21,073 --> 00:53:23,575 The group of us spent a full week there working 755 00:53:23,576 --> 00:53:27,954 at like a memorial site and doing projects in schools, 756 00:53:27,955 --> 00:53:31,166 basically like a little elite strike force team 757 00:53:31,167 --> 00:53:33,919 of empathetic artists. 758 00:53:37,173 --> 00:53:39,633 I don't think that artists are obliged to go out 759 00:53:39,634 --> 00:53:41,176 and do good works, 760 00:53:41,177 --> 00:53:43,345 or to try to pretend that making art 761 00:53:43,346 --> 00:53:46,181 has to sort of like save the world or feed the children, 762 00:53:46,182 --> 00:53:48,099 or do any kind of like, you know, 763 00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:50,101 nice crunchy thing that people might want. 764 00:53:50,102 --> 00:53:53,772 But if you can and if there's an opportunity, why not? 765 00:53:53,773 --> 00:53:55,065 You have the chance to use a skill 766 00:53:55,066 --> 00:53:57,484 that you have to do something good. 767 00:53:57,485 --> 00:54:00,737 And also, you know, I do really believe that 768 00:54:00,738 --> 00:54:03,573 art and aesthetic experience are good in and of themselves, 769 00:54:03,574 --> 00:54:05,242 that they're not means to anything 770 00:54:05,243 --> 00:54:07,119 but that they make life better. 771 00:54:33,145 --> 00:54:34,522 It's funny. 772 00:54:36,148 --> 00:54:40,819 I imagine when people heard like the one snippet of 773 00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:43,238 "there was an apartment in the mall," 774 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,240 it's not the first thing that they think people would be 775 00:54:45,241 --> 00:54:47,117 using it for is 776 00:54:47,118 --> 00:54:49,786 kind of planning and discussing things 777 00:54:49,787 --> 00:54:54,875 around these big public art projects that we were doing. 778 00:55:38,753 --> 00:55:40,587 The central project in our life 779 00:55:40,588 --> 00:55:42,172 was the September 11th memorial. 780 00:55:42,173 --> 00:55:44,424 It was all-consuming. 781 00:55:44,425 --> 00:55:47,177 We had, uh, made the decision 782 00:55:47,178 --> 00:55:51,222 to draw 500 portraits, life-size, 783 00:55:51,223 --> 00:55:53,767 simple silhouettes, of every fireman 784 00:55:53,768 --> 00:55:55,186 and every airline passenger 785 00:55:55,311 --> 00:55:57,730 that passed away at the World Trade Center. 786 00:56:02,193 --> 00:56:03,611 Okay. 787 00:56:04,403 --> 00:56:06,072 Saracini. 788 00:56:08,115 --> 00:56:10,367 Number 38, heart one. He's here. 789 00:56:10,368 --> 00:56:14,871 We're gonna walk to the other side of this square right here 790 00:56:14,872 --> 00:56:18,708 and put a figure. 791 00:56:18,709 --> 00:56:22,420 Sir Russell is gonna be about a block that direction. 792 00:56:22,421 --> 00:56:24,672 Mike had drawn these four large hearts 793 00:56:24,673 --> 00:56:26,049 over the island of Manhattan, 794 00:56:26,050 --> 00:56:28,301 and we would basically go down to New York, 795 00:56:28,302 --> 00:56:31,304 we'd follow that path and just find locations on that to try 796 00:56:31,305 --> 00:56:33,348 and do a drawing of a figure. 797 00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:35,600 And we'd document it 798 00:56:35,601 --> 00:56:38,395 and then this, like, Web memorial, we'd go back 799 00:56:38,396 --> 00:56:39,687 and make sort of like a Web page 800 00:56:39,688 --> 00:56:41,231 showcasing that documentation. 801 00:56:41,232 --> 00:56:45,610 Portraits of people who died on September 11th 802 00:56:45,611 --> 00:56:47,654 along the path of four hearts. 803 00:56:47,655 --> 00:56:50,115 So, like walking those paths and drawing, 804 00:56:50,116 --> 00:56:51,908 I think, every block, a person. 805 00:56:51,909 --> 00:56:54,536 And those were all temporary drawings. 806 00:56:54,537 --> 00:56:55,912 You know, you're in public, 807 00:56:55,913 --> 00:56:57,705 you're in the streets of Manhattan, 808 00:56:57,706 --> 00:56:59,374 you're trying to go quick. 809 00:56:59,375 --> 00:57:02,710 We almost never had permission to make the work. 810 00:57:02,711 --> 00:57:05,463 So you're trying to not get busted. 811 00:57:05,464 --> 00:57:07,590 If you got busted, you could just remove the mural. 812 00:57:07,591 --> 00:57:09,426 The tape is impermanent, 813 00:57:09,427 --> 00:57:12,762 but as far as tape art goes, kind of intense scenario. 814 00:57:12,763 --> 00:57:15,640 You're trying to honor the circumstance, 815 00:57:15,641 --> 00:57:17,058 the people you're representing, 816 00:57:17,059 --> 00:57:18,768 and the seriousness of it all. 817 00:57:18,769 --> 00:57:21,813 But you're also interacting with people in the public 818 00:57:21,814 --> 00:57:23,731 who are curious to know what you're doing 819 00:57:23,732 --> 00:57:25,567 or if it's illegal. 820 00:57:25,568 --> 00:57:29,654 Yeah, it was like a great drawing challenge. 821 00:57:29,655 --> 00:57:31,448 - See these four hearts here? - Yeah. 822 00:57:31,449 --> 00:57:33,491 These four hearts span the entirety of Manhattan. 823 00:57:33,492 --> 00:57:35,618 - One, two three, four. - Yep. 824 00:57:35,619 --> 00:57:39,456 And right now we are working on heart one. 825 00:57:39,457 --> 00:57:42,459 So we're right now right about here. 826 00:57:42,460 --> 00:57:46,713 And these hearts, if you were to connect the dots 827 00:57:46,714 --> 00:57:49,299 between all of these figures that we're drawing, 828 00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:50,508 you would be drawing out 829 00:57:50,509 --> 00:57:53,303 these fantastically large hearts. 830 00:57:53,304 --> 00:57:54,971 Wow. 831 00:57:54,972 --> 00:57:58,725 We would hop in the car, in Mike's Toyota, 832 00:57:58,726 --> 00:58:02,562 and drive to New York to do drawings 833 00:58:02,563 --> 00:58:04,981 over the course of a couple of days 834 00:58:04,982 --> 00:58:06,900 with a goal some section of a heart, 835 00:58:06,901 --> 00:58:09,110 and then, with the documentation, 836 00:58:09,111 --> 00:58:10,987 we would head back to Providence, 837 00:58:10,988 --> 00:58:14,574 where we would compile the next set of collages. 838 00:58:14,575 --> 00:58:16,284 And then once a good window 839 00:58:16,285 --> 00:58:18,786 presented itself to head back to New York, 840 00:58:18,787 --> 00:58:22,999 we'd hop back in the car and get to it. 841 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,294 It took a long time. Uh, years. 842 00:58:26,295 --> 00:58:27,962 This project, when it started, 843 00:58:27,963 --> 00:58:31,216 we thought maybe two, three years, 844 00:58:31,217 --> 00:58:33,593 stretched out to five years. 845 00:58:33,594 --> 00:58:36,054 All of these efforts pretty much, like, 846 00:58:36,055 --> 00:58:38,056 was all volunteer. 847 00:58:38,057 --> 00:58:40,725 The Hope Project was completely self-funded. 848 00:58:40,726 --> 00:58:43,603 I mean, I know that Mike's-- every bit of money 849 00:58:43,604 --> 00:58:45,688 that he made went directly back 850 00:58:45,689 --> 00:58:50,276 into paying for the Hope Project. 851 00:58:50,277 --> 00:58:52,195 Mostly the paying for it was, 852 00:58:52,196 --> 00:58:55,740 you know, all of our labor was completely volunteer. 853 00:58:55,741 --> 00:58:58,368 But for me, just thinking about 854 00:58:58,369 --> 00:59:00,954 meaningful things I've done in my life, 855 00:59:00,955 --> 00:59:02,830 that's something I look at as really, 856 00:59:02,831 --> 00:59:05,458 truly meaningful artwork. 857 00:59:32,945 --> 00:59:37,115 I'm not sure, but the project that we made, 858 00:59:37,116 --> 00:59:40,828 uh, to be honest, I don't even know how it exists now. 859 00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:44,623 I'm not sure if it even exists to this day. 860 00:59:59,930 --> 01:00:06,145 The apartment was the side project to the other stuff. 861 01:00:08,522 --> 01:00:14,110 The Hope Project, Oklahoma City projects, 862 01:00:14,111 --> 01:00:17,280 the work at the hospital, 863 01:00:17,281 --> 01:00:22,035 that was, I believe, our focus as a team. 864 01:00:22,036 --> 01:00:24,871 You know, the mall project felt like a way for us 865 01:00:24,872 --> 01:00:30,251 to have maybe more fun than thinking about tragedy, 866 01:00:30,252 --> 01:00:31,462 which for a couple of years we were, like, 867 01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:34,590 really thinking about tragedy all the time. 868 01:02:19,027 --> 01:02:21,320 Once you have your own wall, 869 01:02:21,321 --> 01:02:22,989 then you get your own door, 870 01:02:22,990 --> 01:02:24,115 and then you have your own lock, 871 01:02:24,116 --> 01:02:25,324 and then you get your own key. 872 01:02:25,325 --> 01:02:28,077 So our whole team had a key 873 01:02:28,078 --> 01:02:29,830 to an apartment in the mall. 874 01:02:44,136 --> 01:02:45,595 So what I didn't realize 875 01:02:45,596 --> 01:02:48,848 when I was initially looking at these photos-- 876 01:02:48,849 --> 01:02:51,058 This step-down here that's happening 877 01:02:51,059 --> 01:02:52,393 in the cinder blocks, 878 01:02:52,394 --> 01:02:53,811 I was like, "Weird." 879 01:02:53,812 --> 01:02:55,354 Yeah, poor craftsmanship. 880 01:02:55,355 --> 01:02:57,106 - Because you had built it. - Right. 881 01:02:57,107 --> 01:02:58,649 - Ahh. - Right. 882 01:02:58,650 --> 01:03:01,360 But that brings like a certain degree of charm. 883 01:03:01,361 --> 01:03:04,614 So with the couch, you can tell it's a pretty big couch 884 01:03:04,615 --> 01:03:06,657 from the amount of people that are fitting on it. 885 01:03:06,658 --> 01:03:07,992 Sectional. 886 01:03:07,993 --> 01:03:10,369 - Oh, it's a sectional. - Yeah. 887 01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:14,749 Can you draw for me, roughly, like, the floor plan 888 01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:18,711 or just the orientation of walls and stuff as you... 889 01:03:18,712 --> 01:03:22,715 So if this is our front door, this is our back door. 890 01:03:22,716 --> 01:03:24,675 - Whoa. - We had a couch here. 891 01:03:24,676 --> 01:03:26,469 We had our entertainment system 892 01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:29,514 on a little tiny table with a TV. 893 01:03:29,515 --> 01:03:31,766 And there was a dresser out here. 894 01:03:31,767 --> 01:03:34,227 Rugs, lamps. 895 01:03:34,228 --> 01:03:36,646 You didn't have outlets, did you? 896 01:03:36,647 --> 01:03:41,526 No, but we had the extension cord here, down... 897 01:03:41,527 --> 01:03:45,238 - Oh, my God. - ...one story into over here. 898 01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:47,281 The door is there. The couch is basically here. 899 01:03:47,282 --> 01:03:48,783 Little table was basically here. 900 01:03:48,784 --> 01:03:50,868 You walk to that, 901 01:03:50,869 --> 01:03:55,915 and that puts the china cabinet here. 902 01:03:55,916 --> 01:03:58,501 Getting it to look right-- like this is too distressed. 903 01:03:58,502 --> 01:04:01,420 No, that's not-- that's not-- that's brick. 904 01:04:01,421 --> 01:04:04,298 - That's closer. - Closer. 905 01:04:04,299 --> 01:04:05,633 That's it. That's what it looked like. 906 01:04:44,256 --> 01:04:46,799 Yeah, with the folks from Providence 907 01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,634 who are helping on this project, 908 01:04:48,635 --> 01:04:50,136 um, it was pretty easy for me 909 01:04:50,137 --> 01:04:51,804 to rope them in because I just said, 910 01:04:51,805 --> 01:04:55,391 "Remember that time those people lived at the mall? 911 01:04:55,392 --> 01:04:58,477 How would you like to rebuild that room?" 912 01:04:58,478 --> 01:05:00,897 You know, we're working with a tight budget, 913 01:05:00,898 --> 01:05:02,648 but everyone's really excited about the project, 914 01:05:02,649 --> 01:05:04,358 so we're doing the best we can. 915 01:05:04,359 --> 01:05:06,736 I think everyone was sort of willing to pitch in 916 01:05:06,737 --> 01:05:08,988 and just being a little scrappier. 917 01:05:08,989 --> 01:05:11,866 There's a lot of free items that we're running around 918 01:05:11,867 --> 01:05:13,409 and picking up. 919 01:05:13,410 --> 01:05:15,453 We're basically doing what these guys did. 920 01:05:15,454 --> 01:05:17,288 You know, the way that they were finding their furniture 921 01:05:17,289 --> 01:05:19,123 was oftentimes at Salvation Army 922 01:05:19,124 --> 01:05:20,082 or things that they were finding 923 01:05:20,083 --> 01:05:21,584 on the side of the road, 924 01:05:21,585 --> 01:05:24,795 and we're doing a sort of expedited version of that. 925 01:05:24,796 --> 01:05:26,547 I think more than anything, I want Michael 926 01:05:26,548 --> 01:05:28,591 and Adriana and Andrew and Colin 927 01:05:28,592 --> 01:05:31,260 and whoever else to walk into the space 928 01:05:31,261 --> 01:05:35,306 knowing that it's just a re-creation for a documentary, 929 01:05:35,307 --> 01:05:39,435 but having it sort of evoke the memory of the space. 930 01:06:49,631 --> 01:06:52,842 So I was hired at Pottery Barn 931 01:06:52,843 --> 01:06:55,386 to do, uh, shipping/receiving. 932 01:06:55,387 --> 01:06:58,973 The company was trying to promote shadow boxes, 933 01:06:58,974 --> 01:07:02,727 so they wanted to do a workshop, so I did it. 934 01:07:02,728 --> 01:07:06,856 So when they came in, they were really excited and jovial 935 01:07:06,857 --> 01:07:08,816 and they were like, "We're into this." 936 01:07:08,817 --> 01:07:10,526 They sort of explained who they were, 937 01:07:10,527 --> 01:07:11,861 what kind of art they made, 938 01:07:11,862 --> 01:07:13,696 that they were from Eagle Square 939 01:07:13,697 --> 01:07:15,448 and that they got kicked out. 940 01:07:15,449 --> 01:07:17,158 I had been to Eagle Square, 941 01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:20,077 so I knew kind of the situation. 942 01:07:20,078 --> 01:07:22,539 You know, we had this connection going. 943 01:07:22,706 --> 01:07:24,081 And then they started to tell me, 944 01:07:24,082 --> 01:07:25,959 you know, slowly it kind of leaked out. 945 01:07:58,158 --> 01:07:59,784 It was pretty clear from the beginning 946 01:07:59,785 --> 01:08:02,703 that they wanted to know more information about the mall, 947 01:08:02,704 --> 01:08:04,623 and I was their inside about that. 948 01:09:07,561 --> 01:09:09,728 So after they left, you know, of course, 949 01:09:09,729 --> 01:09:11,897 there were all the questions from the other employees, 950 01:09:11,898 --> 01:09:14,150 you know, "What's this about?" 951 01:09:14,151 --> 01:09:16,152 And I just told them it was an art project. 952 01:09:21,032 --> 01:09:24,869 Here we go. So this is our home. 953 01:09:26,496 --> 01:09:29,832 This door also has a lock, just like our door did. 954 01:09:29,833 --> 01:09:33,878 And, um, it's locked, so I can't go in the apartment. 955 01:09:40,510 --> 01:09:42,970 This is the weird thing about the mall apartment 956 01:09:42,971 --> 01:09:45,389 is that it makes you feel really relaxed. 957 01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:48,350 It's this paradox, right? 958 01:09:48,351 --> 01:09:50,019 It's a little prisonlike, 959 01:09:50,020 --> 01:09:51,854 because there's this cement wall 960 01:09:51,855 --> 01:09:53,814 and there's no natural light, 961 01:09:53,815 --> 01:09:56,859 and you could be discovered at any moment. 962 01:09:56,860 --> 01:09:58,235 There's this weird sense of freedom 963 01:09:58,236 --> 01:10:00,279 where no one's gonna bother you, 964 01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,489 you're not gonna be late for anything. 965 01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:07,995 It's just this really quiet refuge in a way. 966 01:10:07,996 --> 01:10:10,080 You're on, like, the inside-out version 967 01:10:10,081 --> 01:10:13,125 of a building that you're never supposed to experience. 968 01:10:13,126 --> 01:10:16,838 Um, and so it's like being in the belly of a beast. 969 01:10:22,802 --> 01:10:25,471 In some ways we had this raw black box. 970 01:10:25,472 --> 01:10:28,224 It was a bit of a space station, 971 01:10:28,225 --> 01:10:30,059 self-imposed prison cell. 972 01:10:30,060 --> 01:10:31,977 There was no windows, there's no light. 973 01:10:31,978 --> 01:10:35,606 And it was about this desire to cultivate it 974 01:10:35,607 --> 01:10:36,942 and make it more human. 975 01:10:37,943 --> 01:10:40,070 Uh... 976 01:10:42,822 --> 01:10:47,660 Sleeping in the apartment was, I think, really cold usually. 977 01:10:47,661 --> 01:10:51,372 And we had like some sleeping bags, at least in the winter. 978 01:10:51,373 --> 01:10:54,250 Definitely really hot in the summer too. 979 01:10:54,251 --> 01:10:56,669 And incredibly dark. 980 01:10:56,670 --> 01:10:58,504 Slept on this couch a lot. 981 01:10:58,505 --> 01:10:59,797 Probably the most-- 982 01:10:59,798 --> 01:11:01,548 for me, the most nights in a row 983 01:11:01,549 --> 01:11:02,800 would have been four or five 984 01:11:02,801 --> 01:11:05,010 or something like that, I think. 985 01:11:05,011 --> 01:11:07,388 We had tried different, like, sleeping arrangements, 986 01:11:07,389 --> 01:11:08,639 but I remember Mike and I 987 01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,307 doing this on this couch a lot, 988 01:11:10,308 --> 01:11:12,435 the head-to-foot sleeping. 989 01:11:13,645 --> 01:11:15,020 And this hutch... 990 01:11:15,021 --> 01:11:18,315 I was gonna look for it. It feels so real. 991 01:11:18,316 --> 01:11:20,901 It definitely-- it had a real waffle maker 992 01:11:20,902 --> 01:11:23,405 so we could make waffles in the mall apartment. 993 01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:26,657 So I had this vision of staging 994 01:11:26,658 --> 01:11:29,410 this set of domestic bliss-- 995 01:11:29,411 --> 01:11:32,913 gorgeous, very bourgeois, even within 996 01:11:32,914 --> 01:11:39,086 the dusty, grimy cinder block of that apartment. 997 01:11:39,087 --> 01:11:43,674 Oh, my gosh, the cinder block, yeah, it was, um... 998 01:11:43,675 --> 01:11:46,593 It was, uh, dustier. 999 01:11:46,594 --> 01:11:47,970 It was always giving off-- 1000 01:11:47,971 --> 01:11:49,680 It was always generating kind of like 1001 01:11:49,681 --> 01:11:52,599 a fine mist of-- of cement. 1002 01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,352 So much of what the mall sells us 1003 01:11:55,353 --> 01:11:58,230 is this performance of a consumer lifestyle. 1004 01:11:58,231 --> 01:12:00,482 And so the mall apartment 1005 01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:03,068 was this opportunity to have this set, almost, 1006 01:12:03,069 --> 01:12:05,779 where we could play out the unrealistic 1007 01:12:05,780 --> 01:12:08,407 and unattainable fantasies of the mall. 1008 01:12:08,408 --> 01:12:10,909 And the joke would be, "You know what? 1009 01:12:10,910 --> 01:12:13,454 Oh, you love just beautifying things? 1010 01:12:13,455 --> 01:12:14,622 Like, so do we." 1011 01:13:05,215 --> 01:13:07,132 During the time that the apartment in the mall 1012 01:13:07,133 --> 01:13:10,594 was being built, I was married to Adriana 1013 01:13:10,595 --> 01:13:16,643 and she had a front-row seat to a lot of lunacy. 1014 01:15:26,606 --> 01:15:28,857 There was some part of me that knew 1015 01:15:28,858 --> 01:15:31,401 this was not a good relationship, 1016 01:15:31,402 --> 01:15:32,861 and then I was able to realize 1017 01:15:32,862 --> 01:15:34,446 that it was not the right thing for me. 1018 01:15:34,447 --> 01:15:35,907 Yeah. 1019 01:15:37,659 --> 01:15:41,662 This illustrates one of the core dilemmas 1020 01:15:41,663 --> 01:15:46,250 of, uh, driving yourself towards an art project 1021 01:15:46,251 --> 01:15:48,085 that you really deeply believe in, 1022 01:15:48,086 --> 01:15:52,130 because sometimes it's truly in the face of all reason. 1023 01:15:52,131 --> 01:15:54,883 Why are you spending all of that time there? 1024 01:15:54,884 --> 01:15:57,427 Why are you doing that September 11th project? Why? 1025 01:15:57,428 --> 01:16:00,639 There's no-- Where's the reward in any of this? 1026 01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,768 What's your end game? Valid questions. 1027 01:16:10,358 --> 01:16:13,110 At this time, the apartment is starting to transform 1028 01:16:13,111 --> 01:16:14,736 into something else. 1029 01:16:14,737 --> 01:16:16,656 It's evolving again. 1030 01:16:18,658 --> 01:16:21,743 It had started as a response 1031 01:16:21,744 --> 01:16:23,996 to development projects in our neighborhood, 1032 01:16:23,997 --> 01:16:25,247 and within a couple of years 1033 01:16:25,248 --> 01:16:26,583 it looks like a domestic space, 1034 01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:30,003 but it's completely isolated from the world. 1035 01:16:32,171 --> 01:16:34,923 And sometimes when you're in that space, 1036 01:16:34,924 --> 01:16:38,469 you felt like you were on the stage of a sitcom TV show. 1037 01:16:40,972 --> 01:16:43,640 And I think kind of because of that feeling, 1038 01:16:43,641 --> 01:16:46,728 we just stopped filming ourselves altogether. 1039 01:16:51,482 --> 01:16:55,570 And then we had had this break-in. 1040 01:17:02,368 --> 01:17:04,244 They were two guys, young guys, 1041 01:17:04,245 --> 01:17:06,413 maybe 20, 21, something like that, 1042 01:17:06,414 --> 01:17:09,499 who were new security guards at the mall. 1043 01:17:09,500 --> 01:17:11,793 I think they were just going through every door, 1044 01:17:11,794 --> 01:17:13,086 and they came upon the door 1045 01:17:13,087 --> 01:17:15,797 that they did not have the key to. 1046 01:17:15,798 --> 01:17:17,467 So they just kicked the door down. 1047 01:17:53,169 --> 01:17:55,087 So Colin and I enter into the apartment 1048 01:17:55,088 --> 01:17:56,922 to try to figure out what's happened. 1049 01:17:56,923 --> 01:17:58,840 Our door's been broken in. 1050 01:17:58,841 --> 01:18:00,717 But when we enter into the apartment, 1051 01:18:00,718 --> 01:18:02,969 we can quickly assess that someone else 1052 01:18:02,970 --> 01:18:05,306 has been spending time there, and it's not us. 1053 01:18:06,933 --> 01:18:09,476 And there's evidence of entertainment 1054 01:18:09,477 --> 01:18:13,021 dispersed throughout. 1055 01:18:13,022 --> 01:18:15,817 But things have also been stolen. 1056 01:18:17,610 --> 01:18:20,570 Our, uh, PlayStation, weirdly enough, 1057 01:18:20,571 --> 01:18:23,281 was the thing that was gone, and then there were some other 1058 01:18:23,282 --> 01:18:25,075 of our personal effects that were gone. 1059 01:18:25,076 --> 01:18:28,412 We had some framed pictures and stuff 1060 01:18:28,413 --> 01:18:30,414 to make it feel a little homier. 1061 01:18:30,415 --> 01:18:32,040 Those were the things that were gone. 1062 01:18:32,041 --> 01:18:33,250 I think they took the PlayStation 1063 01:18:33,251 --> 01:18:35,794 because it had all of our save dates 1064 01:18:35,795 --> 01:18:37,379 for the games we were playing on it, 1065 01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:39,840 so that's just a record of all the visits 1066 01:18:39,841 --> 01:18:41,091 in the last couple months. 1067 01:18:41,092 --> 01:18:42,384 And they took our photo album 1068 01:18:42,385 --> 01:18:43,969 because it had just photographs of us. 1069 01:18:43,970 --> 01:18:47,723 It was very clearly who lived in this apartment. 1070 01:18:47,724 --> 01:18:51,185 Busted. Job well done. Bravo. 1071 01:18:52,979 --> 01:18:56,189 We've been in this space for four years, 1072 01:18:56,190 --> 01:18:58,567 and there's this underlying dread 1073 01:18:58,568 --> 01:19:01,945 that we're gonna get caught at any time. 1074 01:19:01,946 --> 01:19:04,114 And after we were broken into, we just stopped 1075 01:19:04,115 --> 01:19:07,993 going to that space during the day altogether. 1076 01:19:07,994 --> 01:19:10,162 And then I screwed up. 1077 01:19:10,163 --> 01:19:11,872 I had a friend visiting from out of town, 1078 01:19:11,873 --> 01:19:14,666 and I thought to myself, "I'll bring her to see the space." 1079 01:19:14,667 --> 01:19:18,211 And I went during the day. 1080 01:19:18,212 --> 01:19:24,051 I disrespected our own rules, and it blew up in my face. 1081 01:19:32,769 --> 01:19:37,773 All right, this is our secret apartment. 1082 01:19:37,774 --> 01:19:41,318 Been slowly building this over the last four years. 1083 01:19:41,319 --> 01:19:47,199 Moving in pieces of furniture and slowly building it up 1084 01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,493 to try to make it a fully domestic space to live in. 1085 01:19:49,494 --> 01:19:51,411 Are you allowed to be here? 1086 01:19:51,412 --> 01:19:55,665 Technically, no. We've been doing it all on the sly. 1087 01:19:55,666 --> 01:20:00,212 And within a couple of days, the wood floors will be in, 1088 01:20:00,213 --> 01:20:03,048 and it'll be one step closer. 1089 01:20:03,049 --> 01:20:05,634 - How did you get this up here? - That is-- 1090 01:20:16,395 --> 01:20:20,357 Yeah, so between the sound of the walkie-talkie 1091 01:20:20,358 --> 01:20:23,401 and seeing that doorknob turn, 1092 01:20:23,402 --> 01:20:26,196 everything just goes into slo-mo. 1093 01:20:26,197 --> 01:20:29,324 And it's one of those times when you can process 1094 01:20:29,325 --> 01:20:33,120 a lot of scenarios in a very short period of time. 1095 01:20:53,391 --> 01:20:55,725 One of the possibilities is just to get out of there. 1096 01:20:55,726 --> 01:20:57,310 Book it, grab your friend, 1097 01:20:57,311 --> 01:20:59,479 head towards the secret passage, 1098 01:20:59,480 --> 01:21:01,940 and... that's where you're in trouble, 1099 01:21:01,941 --> 01:21:03,733 because you're asking them to dive into a place 1100 01:21:03,734 --> 01:21:06,736 that's like pitch dark, full of ledges and I-beams. 1101 01:21:06,737 --> 01:21:08,531 They're probably not gonna make it. 1102 01:21:10,950 --> 01:21:13,243 Another idea that struck me was, 1103 01:21:13,244 --> 01:21:15,704 they were entering into my home, 1104 01:21:15,705 --> 01:21:19,416 so I should just invite them in as guests, 1105 01:21:19,417 --> 01:21:21,084 treat them like royalty, 1106 01:21:21,085 --> 01:21:23,587 and maybe they would treat me well in return? 1107 01:21:23,588 --> 01:21:26,590 Ah! Hello! 1108 01:21:26,591 --> 01:21:28,758 Gentlemen, it's good to see you. 1109 01:21:28,759 --> 01:21:33,096 Ah! Too long. You. You, sir. 1110 01:21:37,518 --> 01:21:39,895 But that probably wasn't gonna work. 1111 01:21:42,607 --> 01:21:44,733 Another possibility that went through my mind 1112 01:21:44,734 --> 01:21:47,319 is that this isn't security at all, 1113 01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,114 that maybe this is just a cool person 1114 01:21:51,115 --> 01:21:53,993 with a walkie-talkie on the other side of that door. 1115 01:21:56,037 --> 01:21:58,079 - Walkie-talkies. - Yes! 1116 01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,790 Radio Shack. 1117 01:22:00,791 --> 01:22:02,417 Sweet! 1118 01:22:04,545 --> 01:22:10,717 But after seeing those three guys step through that door 1119 01:22:10,718 --> 01:22:14,679 in their business suits, I knew it was over. 1120 01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,267 I remember stepping right up and saying, "Surprise!" 1121 01:22:19,644 --> 01:22:22,562 - Do you know who I am? - We know who you are. 1122 01:22:22,563 --> 01:22:24,774 You're gonna need to follow us. 1123 01:22:27,526 --> 01:22:30,779 Our other top local story on Eyewitness News at Noon-- 1124 01:22:30,780 --> 01:22:33,031 This is an incredible tale. 1125 01:22:33,032 --> 01:22:36,117 A local artist has apparently had 1126 01:22:36,118 --> 01:22:38,411 some living space in the Providence Place Mall. 1127 01:22:38,412 --> 01:22:42,123 In all, eight artists were in and out of that loft area, 1128 01:22:42,124 --> 01:22:45,251 but there was one man who admitted that he lived there, 1129 01:22:45,252 --> 01:22:48,088 and now he's facing trespassing charges, 1130 01:22:48,089 --> 01:22:50,799 and he's also banned from the premises. 1131 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,469 In a mall with 24-hour security, 1132 01:22:54,011 --> 01:22:55,303 Michael Townsend was able to build 1133 01:22:55,304 --> 01:22:56,763 a fully livable apartment, 1134 01:22:56,764 --> 01:22:58,807 and he used it for nearly four years. 1135 01:22:58,808 --> 01:23:01,893 Townsend was arrested and charged with trespassing. 1136 01:23:01,894 --> 01:23:04,729 A judge sentenced him to six months probation 1137 01:23:04,730 --> 01:23:08,566 and ordered him to pay court costs and restitution. 1138 01:23:08,567 --> 01:23:10,986 A spokesman for the mall said the hidden space 1139 01:23:10,987 --> 01:23:12,404 would be sealed up immediately. 1140 01:23:12,405 --> 01:23:13,697 Townsend's original charge... 1141 01:23:13,698 --> 01:23:15,198 Townsend has been barred 1142 01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:17,659 from coming to the mall permanently. 1143 01:23:17,660 --> 01:23:19,077 Townsend was released this morning, 1144 01:23:19,078 --> 01:23:21,246 spending just one night in jail. 1145 01:23:21,247 --> 01:23:23,873 His only regret is that it ended too soon. 1146 01:23:23,874 --> 01:23:27,127 In the next year, he planned on expanding the apartment 1147 01:23:27,128 --> 01:23:28,920 and building an extra bedroom, 1148 01:23:28,921 --> 01:23:33,008 a kitchen, and a bathroom, all with running water. 1149 01:23:33,009 --> 01:23:34,843 When asked if the apartment was a work of art 1150 01:23:34,844 --> 01:23:37,429 or just a place to live, Townsend told us that for him 1151 01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:39,222 there's no line between art and life. 1152 01:23:39,223 --> 01:23:42,101 Brian Crandall, NBC 10 News, Providence. 1153 01:23:44,729 --> 01:23:47,897 So I was told by representatives of the mall 1154 01:23:47,898 --> 01:23:50,859 that they took down our cinder-block wall 1155 01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:53,987 and then moved all the cinder blocks 1156 01:23:53,988 --> 01:23:58,158 to rebuild a new wall to block off the entrance 1157 01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:01,870 we had used to enter in all of those years. 1158 01:24:01,871 --> 01:24:04,373 As far as I know, no one's ever been in there again. 1159 01:24:08,669 --> 01:24:10,587 With our secret apartment in the mall, 1160 01:24:10,588 --> 01:24:14,049 there wasn't any sense of it being permanent. 1161 01:24:14,050 --> 01:24:15,341 We're just gonna keep building it 1162 01:24:15,342 --> 01:24:18,344 until we reached that crescendo moment 1163 01:24:18,345 --> 01:24:22,266 and then make it disappear. 1164 01:24:27,855 --> 01:24:30,023 So what is it? What is it? 1165 01:24:30,024 --> 01:24:31,649 Is it a work of art? Is it a social experiment? 1166 01:24:31,650 --> 01:24:34,194 Is it trespassing? Is it a prank? 1167 01:24:34,195 --> 01:24:36,071 It's maybe all of these things. 1168 01:24:36,072 --> 01:24:37,989 It was this idea of 1169 01:24:37,990 --> 01:24:40,784 reinventing everyday life 1170 01:24:40,785 --> 01:24:42,660 and making of everyday life 1171 01:24:42,661 --> 01:24:44,496 an artistic project. 1172 01:24:44,497 --> 01:24:45,997 It talks about gentrification. 1173 01:24:45,998 --> 01:24:48,875 It talks about, uh, capitalism 1174 01:24:48,876 --> 01:24:51,753 and, you know, everything being commodified. 1175 01:24:51,754 --> 01:24:53,004 It's the perfect site 1176 01:24:53,005 --> 01:24:55,090 to address issues of, like, 1177 01:24:55,091 --> 01:24:58,510 ownership of capital, of private versus public. 1178 01:24:58,511 --> 01:25:01,012 It was like this alternate universe 1179 01:25:01,013 --> 01:25:03,681 that's, like, within the real world. 1180 01:25:03,682 --> 01:25:08,937 It's a crossover between installation art 1181 01:25:08,938 --> 01:25:10,313 and performance art. 1182 01:25:10,314 --> 01:25:12,190 I think it was a combo of, like, mischief 1183 01:25:12,191 --> 01:25:14,360 and, like, snark. 1184 01:25:14,902 --> 01:25:17,320 It seemed like a big presentational show 1185 01:25:17,321 --> 01:25:20,115 because they don't like-- they don't like malls? 1186 01:25:20,116 --> 01:25:22,200 It felt like, blah, whatever. 1187 01:25:22,201 --> 01:25:24,828 I don't really get it, I will admit, 1188 01:25:24,829 --> 01:25:27,956 uh, which is-- Michael finds that hilarious. 1189 01:25:27,957 --> 01:25:31,918 Uh, you know, it's-- I-- I try to understand 1190 01:25:31,919 --> 01:25:38,383 why this was an art project and the deeper, um, messaging 1191 01:25:38,384 --> 01:25:41,928 he was trying to get across by occupying unoccupied space. 1192 01:25:41,929 --> 01:25:43,555 And, like, I've heard it, I've heard it, 1193 01:25:43,556 --> 01:25:47,308 but I just don't really get why it's art. 1194 01:25:47,309 --> 01:25:49,644 I'm not sure if it-- if it moves over 1195 01:25:49,645 --> 01:25:52,188 to the area of being artistic. 1196 01:25:52,189 --> 01:25:53,898 I think this is just his creative mind 1197 01:25:53,899 --> 01:25:56,569 trying to express itself in every possible way. 1198 01:26:13,127 --> 01:26:17,088 I've kept this key on my keychain the entire time. 1199 01:26:17,089 --> 01:26:20,800 Yep, this is the key. 1200 01:26:20,801 --> 01:26:24,012 Um, which used to have flames on it, but it doesn't anymore. 1201 01:26:24,013 --> 01:26:28,225 Well, um, it's here on my keychain. 1202 01:26:29,351 --> 01:26:32,812 Um, I have no idea if the door's still there, 1203 01:26:32,813 --> 01:26:35,315 so I sometimes refer to it as my key to nowhere. 1204 01:26:37,568 --> 01:26:41,322 Here is my key. 1205 01:26:42,489 --> 01:26:45,116 It's got, uh, what's left of an American flag 1206 01:26:45,117 --> 01:26:47,410 and an eagle on it. 1207 01:26:47,411 --> 01:26:49,871 You can kind of see, like, a little bit of the flames 1208 01:26:49,872 --> 01:26:51,623 left in there. 1209 01:26:51,624 --> 01:26:55,877 Uh, but pretty well worn. And that was the key. 1210 01:27:53,352 --> 01:27:55,144 Oh, yeah. 88417

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