All language subtitles for Tell Them You Love Me (2023) WEB.eng

In the beginning,
when I was first convicted,

I felt like Alice
in Wonderland...

down the rabbit hole
in this strange place

that doesn't follow any rules

that I'm used to
or anything like that.

When I came out,

I remember I went
to my hairstylist and...

...I just gave a big sigh
and I said,

"Okay, you're gonna
be my first experience

with experimenting with how much
I say or don't say

about where I've been
the past couple years

and where I've been is,
I was in prison."

My inclination, I mean,

you know, here I am
sitting here doing this is,

you know, I don't mind
people knowing because,

you know, I'm not guilty
of a crime, so...

No.

Derrick, let's go.

Are you ready to get up?

Good morning.

Come on. Come on.

I remember
when they brought Derrick home

from the hospital.

And I was just disappointed
like, "I got a baby brother?"

"I wanted a little sister."

And then when they brought him
in the house and I saw him,

there was, like,
an instant connection.

Everything was fine, you know.
Nothing out of the ordinary.

I just remember
that at a certain point,

he became very listless,
he didn't move much.

He wouldn't wake up.
You know, he slept all the time.

He wasn't doing
what he was supposed to do.

Like he wasn't sucking,
he wasn't holding his bottle.

And he couldn't hold his head.

I would ask the doctor, "Well,
what's wrong with Derrick?"

And he said,
"Oh, you're comparing him

to your older son?
He'll be all right."

And I says, "No,
something's not right."

Early on, Derrick had
a series of seizures.

So then,
they took Derrick,

they put him in a sound room,

and they would do the lights
for his eyes to follow,

and he just wouldn't react...

or couldn't.

And that's when they told me
that he has cerebral palsy.

Mm-hmm. And he would never,
you know, be able to...

do as normal children would do.

Derrick visited
a few psychologists,

they deemed him,

as the term they used,
"mentally retarded."

Non-verbal with cerebral palsy.

You know, then not knowing
what the heck that meant,

it just meant that Derrick
can't walk, Derrick can't talk.

Yes. It's all gone.

It's all gone, you're done.

You're done. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Take your hand off your ears.
What you want?

What's the problem? Hmm?

Okay.

You know the routine.

One finger, what's that?
You signing me?

Eventually,
the seizures started to subside,

but what his cognitive level
was,

I didn't have a way
of assessing that.

I know that he was listless
for a point in time,

and then all of a sudden, there
was an awakening of sorts...

where he was in the world.

Whenever we would
lock eyes, like,

there was recognition there.
I just began to see Derrick,

you know,
develop his own personality

and kind of come into his own.

Oh, they were inseparable.

Derrick would come home
after school,

John would run home,
meet Derrick bus,

get Derrick in the house,
call me, "Ma, we in the house."

At a certain point,
I just threw him on my back.

Play together,
get into mischief together,

you know, wherever I go,
Derrick has to go.

Derrick's a character.
You know, he loves to give hugs.

He just loves to smile a lot,
you know.

You know when he's happy.

He used to do-- We call it
"The Stevie Wonder dance."

You know, when Stevie Wonder
is playing on the piano

and really,
he's feeling the music,

and his head would sway
side-to-side,

and so Derrick would do that
from time to time too.

Especially in church
when he is like

really feeling the music,
he...

Sometimes, he's self-abusive.

We can be somewhere
and then all of a sudden...

...he'd put
his hand in his mouth

and start banging his head
and his knee.

And I don't know why.
Maybe he's frustrated,

but he can't communicate.

"So what is going on
in your head, Derrick?"

Like, I really...

To me,
that was the great mystery.

Camera's rolling.

Okay, everything's fine.

Tell me the story
of how you met.

I'm pretty sure,
or at least I'm hopeful

that I haven't been rewriting
things in my head.

I don't-- Didn't wanna do that.

Like, you know,
I see how easily it can happen.

Our next speaker
is Anna Stubblefield.

The Director of the Philosophy
Department at Rutgers.

Thanks, David.
Is that one working? This one?

How's this one?
Ah. That's better. Okay.

I was teaching

in the American Studies
doctoral program

at Rutgers, Newark.

Race, class, gender,
and sexual orientation,

and disability
are inextricably intertwined,

such that none
of these concepts would exist

as it does without the others.

And John was one of my students.

When I was doing
my PhD at Rutgers...

When a person
cannot understand...

...Anna Stubblefield
was a philosopher of race.

And also had a class
about disability studies.

Alongside theorizing
about disability and ethics,

I also provide support

to people labeled
with developmental disabilities.

I work with people
who cannot communicate vocally,

to provide them with access
to alternative forms

of verbal expression
and to literacy.

You know, while I grew up
with a disabled brother,

I was not familiar
with disability studies,

and I think as an instructor,
she was great.

And as a scholar,
she was great as well.

The course was looking
at the notion

of intelligence as a concept.

For example, the notion
that if somebody can't speak,

it must be
because they're too stupid

and there's just
nothing in their head.

That just doesn't--
It's not the case.

It's not the case.

Lacking speech doesn't mean that
you don't have anything to say.

It doesn't mean
that you can't use language...

if somebody can just get you
access to a way to do it.

Can you describe
what your world was like

before you were able
to communicate?

Can you describe that for me?

Somewhere along the course,
we ended up watching this video.

Sue-- Okay.

The person that
was in the video had autism.

I wanna go to grandma.

You wanna go to grandma's?

Wanna go to grandma.

Yeah, grandma
is gonna come here.

Sue Rubin, she's somebody
who's perceived by her parents

and everybody as severely
intellectually impaired

and just not there.

-Yeah.
-Yeah.

But then she's given access
to a way to communicate.

When I was 13,

my mother said
that she had seen someone

start to communicate
using a keyboard in support.

It's called
"facilitated communication."

As I began to type,
my mind began to wake up.

Bye-bye.

The person
that was in the video

used a keyboard...

...and eventually, became
proficient enough to communicate

the complexities of her life.

She was able
to do college-level work

and she graduated
with a dual major,

et cetera, et cetera.
And this was her story.

"I think I was lost..." W-A...

"In some way. I acted
like my worst nightmare."

Y-E... Yes.

At that time,
I never heard anything

about this facilitated
communication.

After that class, John,
he said,

"This woman in this film
reminds me a lot of my brother."

"How she moves, how she looks,
and then I see her typing

and she's going to college,

and we've always been told
that my brother,

you know, basically,
he should be institutionalized,

but we've always felt

that maybe there's something
more going on there."

We recognized
that Derrick had a disability,

but we never thought
that he was incapable

of doing any number of things.

I always knew that
there was something there.

Like, right on cue,

at certain points,
Derrick would say, "Ah, ah, ah."

You know,
Derrick was paying attention.

Derrick wanted to weigh in
on this discussion.

When we would go
to get haircuts,

I would sit there
and read the daily news,

and Derrick would be sitting
next to me,

and so every so often,

Derrick would look
over my shoulder,

and look in the newspaper, and--

Was it a mimicking behavior?
Maybe.

But he has this way of appearing
to be absorbing information.

And so, there were dozens
of these kinds of moments

through our lifetime.

I love my brother to death,

and I always want nothing
but the best for him.

And so I asked her,

"I'd love to hear more about
facilitated communication."

"Who can I talk to?"

I told them
the nearest place

on the East Coast

where there's support
for facilitated communication

is Syracuse University,
but it's gonna be too expensive.

So I said to John,
"If you wanted,

I could at least just, kind of,
do some initial stuff,

kind of see if it's working."

She was Ms. Anna.

You know,
she could do great things.

She was gonna
move mountains and...

I... accepted her at her word.

When I was a child,
I came from an unusual family.

My mom did work with people

with a range
of physical disabilities,

people
with intellectual disabilities

who came to the house.

My mom had a T-shirt
with a slogan,

"Labels are for jars,
not people."

I found disability interesting
because of that exposure.

And so I got my dad to,

you know,
build me a pair of crutches

so I can, you know,
pretend to be post-polio

or have cerebral palsy
or something like that.

I'd, you know,
tie a blindfold on

and spend all afternoon.

During her elementary years,

I taught her
how to write braille.

At her request,
I got her a blind pen pal.

She was interested
in sign language,

and I think she may have
learned some of that.

I was fascinated
by the way in which, you know,

it's not really the impairment,
it's the environment

that creates impairments
for people.

Growing up, I got that message
very powerfully,

how, in our society,
it's like we want everybody

to walk through
the same sized door,

and if you don't fit
in that door,

there's something
wrong with you,

and that doesn't have
to be that way.

Welcome to the 1993 conference

on facilitated communication
in Syracuse,

sponsored by the Facilitated
Communication Institute

at Syracuse University.

I learned about
facilitated communication

in December of 1990
at a conference.

Rosemary Crossley reported

on the work
she'd done in Australia.

I had done some work
with a girl named Anne McDonald

who had athetoid cerebral palsy.

Couldn't move her hands.
Couldn't speak.

There was nothing.

We had a spelling board,

but because she had
cerebral palsy,

her hands would move so much

that she couldn't actually
hit a target.

I tried, what would happen
if I supported her...

under her upper arm,

she could then move
from the elbow

and do better
in selecting items.

And it turned out
that she could spell.

She was very smart.
We gave her the page turner,

so that every time
she hit a button,

the page would turn.

And suddenly,
she could read books.

As soon as I heard
their presentation,

I knew that's what I needed.

This is how to help
all these kids

who I used to work with.

My mother
was one of the first people

in the country who started
doing training workshops

in facilitated communication.

When she came back
and started using it,

she was videotaping everybody,

and I ended up being the one
who ran the camera,

so I was there
when she first started using it.

I was part of that moment.

To see people for the first time

be able to type out something...
Being part of that was,

you know...
...was amazing.

We find that once we open
this world for the kids,

they are social now,
they are appropriate,

they do have language,
they do understand.

I couldn't believe
what I was seeing.

Cherise has typed 120 poems,
nine short stories.

She talks about
everything she feels.

We understood
that people knew

what it was they wanted
to communicate.

And we needed to just provide
some means

to make that possible,
physically.

When I met Derrick,

I'd been told
he had cerebral palsy

and that was all.

He walks. He needs
to hold on to somebody's arm.

Have a little support.

He can focus his gaze,
but his eyes kind of go off,

his head turns.

If you're not used to that,

we see that as signs
of lack of intelligence.

I've seen enough people
like that in my life

to know that
that's simply not true.

So, I don't register things
that way.

So, I had just cut out
some pictures from magazines

or drawn some pictures.

John and Daisy
are in the room watching,

and I said to Derrick,

"You know,
I'm gonna ask you some questions

and I'm not asking them
because I don't think

you're smart enough
or anything."

"I just wanna see what happens

when you try
to point to something."

So I watched and he would
kind of start moving his arm.

It would go a little ways,

and then he had this kind
of muscle jerk reaction,

which turned out
to be very typical.

You can see how hard he works

to try to have the least little
bit of control over his arm

and it's slow.

If you've got cerebral palsy,

you might be able
to get your hand

to something you're pointing at,
but it might take you a minute.

How do you have
a conversation like that?

So I had started with just
a little support on his elbow

and that was it initially,
that freed him up enough,

and then he could select
which picture he wanted.

So, so far so good.

Then, I said,
"Now what I wanted to do is

see where you're at
with literacy."

So, I had cards
that just had letters on them.

Kind of like doing Boggles.
So you have A, B, C, and T.

You can spell cat,
you can spell bat.

And when I asked him to spell
as many words as he could

using these four letters,

he made a very good
showing with that.

But it's one thing
to reach your whole hand

toward a very large target.

It's an entirely different thing
to get one finger pushing a key.

So I had this small,

very light-weight
portable keyboard

with a small LED display
called the Neo.

I ended up where I was keeping
his fingers folded down

so that his index finger
was isolated.

And the first thing I asked him
to do was point to the letter H,

the letter T.

And he started making mistakes.
So, he mixed up the A and the H.

And he mixed up the T and the F
and the U and the V.

What I realized
was that the alphabetical order

or letter board
that I had set up

were all lowercase letters

and on the Neo,
it's capital letters and so,

the difference
between the A and the H

was one little line
across the top of the A,

that sort of thing.

When he was making
those mistakes,

I just said,
"No. No, you're wrong."

You know, "I asked for the A,
you hit the H."

"Here's the A here."

And then I went through
some other letters,

and then I would go back.

He didn't make
the same mistake twice.

So he was a really fast learner.
Tell him once, he's got it.

It was, like,

the porch lights went on,
and I was like,

"Wow, is he doing it?"

And I felt
very excited about it.

She said, "Don't forget,
you're traveling with him."

"You're taking him places."

"And when you're taking him,
he's reading the signs."

And, you know, I'm Mama.

Tell me what my sons can do.

I was elated.

I mean, I always knew that
there was something there.

And so in a way,

it somewhat confirmed
what I'd already knew.

And the school that he attended,

the Essex County
Day Training Program,

they had did
some remarkable things with him.

They were able to get him
to the point where he can,

you know, walk on his own.

But there was this question
of intellectual capacity.

And so, to have this revelation

that Derrick can do
these things,

it was just like, "Wow."

I knew it was there.
I'm just happy for him.

You know, he's... You know...

Okay.

One day,
when Derrick came

and I just asked him,
you know, "Did you do anything

particularly interesting
this week?" And he typed "GM."

His spelling was very,
very creative in the beginning.

And I said, "Hmm, you know,
did you play a game?"

"Was this some kind of game?"
"No."

"Gym. You go to the gym?" "Yes."
And then Daisy popped in with a,

"Oh, yeah, his Day Program
had gone to a health club

and he had walked on a treadmill
and he really enjoyed that."

At that point, Daisy had stepped
outside the room.

And I said, "You know what,
it's occurring to me

that I never actually asked you
what you like to be called."

"Your brother told me
your name was Derrick,

and you came in, and I've been
calling you Derrick."

"Tell me, what do you
want me to call you?"

And he typed D-M-A-N.

And I was looking at that

and it didn't look like
any name that I recognized.

Daisy came back in the room
at that point and I said,

"He typed D-M-A-N.
Does that mean anything to you?"

She said, "Oh,
he had this really great teacher

back when he was about
13 years old."

"He used to call him D-Man."
"That was the teacher

who got him
out of the wheelchair

and got him walking."

So I said, "Is she right?"
Then he said, "Yes."

So, I called him DMan
from there.

That was a really
important moment,

being able to tell people
what you wanna be called

is this important
emotional aspect of life

that we take away from people
when they can't speak.

DMan and I saw each other
several hours a week.

And over the course
of the year as he speeded up,

as his spelling got
a little better...

it went
from a couple-word answers...

to five-word answers...

to a whole sentence,
to a couple of sentences.

So by the end of a year,

we could really have
a decent conversation.

And he could
then be more expressive

and more detailed
about what he had to say

and that was real progress.
That's huge.

I didn't really feel like

I was getting
to know him as a person

until he got to that stage.

Somewhat early on,
Anna had started saying

Derrick had the intellectual
capacity to do high-level work,

and to put sentences together,

and do all
these different things.

I was like,
"Whoa, this is great."

She told us, "Because Derrick
was hanging around you all

for so long, and listened
to your conversations,

and you went to movies,
and you would watch TV,

and so he's absorbing
all of these things,

and so that's how he built
his body of knowledge." And...

And without, you know,
going through a peer reviewed...

...assessment
of those assertions.

I was like, "Okay.
I'll buy that. Cool."

One of the things
that really bothered him

was that he hadn't had
the opportunity

to get a formal education
of any sort.

His brother was getting
a doctoral degree.

So, he had watched his brother
and the whole process

and he really, really, really
wanted to have that also.

So there was a course being
offered on Saturday mornings

at Rutgers Newark.

It was an African American
literature course.

And that looked
really interesting to him.

I guess the idea

was for Derrick
to go to a class,

possibly write papers,
or at least,

be able to show the work
that may put him in line

to then go and pursue a BA.

I was getting towards the end
of my PhD program. And so,

you know, this kind of thing,
you know, Black scholar.

My baby brother was developing--

Said he was gonna be a Black--
Could be a Black scholar.

I felt great.

I sat
in the class with him

and provided
communication support for class.

We ended up
finding him a student

who would facilitate DMan
for doing part of the homework.

Her name was Sheronda Jones.

Sheronda met with him
outside of class

for several hours a week,
so he could read the book

and then at least take a crack
at writing the essay.

She had never taken this class.
She never read the books.

She just provided the support.

He wasn't doing
400-level writing.

But he was correctly identifying
characters and plot elements.

He clearly had read the book
and understood the book.

From 1619, when 20 of us

were sold by a Dutch ship...

One day in class,
the professor started it out

by showing a film
on the entire African diaspora.

And DMan wrote something.

He wasn't expressing
himself as articulately

as I knew he was capable of.

And I was typing back to him
because we were in class.

So I typed back.

I mean,
what if he said it this way,

wouldn't this be better?

And he typed,
"I know what you're saying

but just read it
the way I wrote it."

And I said, "Okay. Fair enough."

And then we got called on
right at that point.

I couldn't resist.

I was sort of editing slightly
as I read,

which all it did
was make it worse.

Screwed up the whole thing.

But I got to the end
and the discussion went on.

He typed,

"Never ever, ever,
ever, ever, ever do that again."

I can tell DMan mad.
This was DMan furious.

And I typed back,
"I'm so sorry."

And he said, "I'm not mad,
but don't ever do that again."

Because, you know, I did speak
for him and that was wrong.

Needless to say,

I never did it before,
and I never did it since.

But he was pissed.

About a year
after DMan started typing,

my mother was organizing
this panel with other FC users

for the Society for Disabilities
Studies Conference,

and she asked if he wanted
to be part of the panel.

I like to arrange at conferences

that people with disabilities
can actually do some presenting.

What I had noticed was that

in terms of the FC community,

Derrick was the only
African American.

And so this is a very
White space

and in a way Derrick was a...

a pathbreaker, a trailblazer,
the Jackie Robinson of FC.

The panel was on the right

to communication clause

and the UN convention
on disability rights.

But I said to him, "Don't worry

about the official topic
of the panel."

"Just write something
about the right to communicate

or what it means to you
to be able to communicate."

We wanted to be able

to refer to some
of the literature.

I was getting books for him,
Steven Pinker,

this neurologist who’s written

about language being
very hardwired.

I got him some Piaget.

It wasn't much,
but it was to give him a taste.

So,
he was reading the books,

we were talking about things.

What he wrote for the panel
was very impressive to me.

It was less than a page
but he had a choice of words,

a way of phrasing things.
It really struck me.

I just became more
and more aware that, you know,

this was a man who was very
insightful and very thoughtful.

He spent a lot
of time sitting around

and he was sitting
around thinking,

and give him some ideas
and something to work with,

and he was just digging in
and seeing stuff.

That is what I--

I mean, that's what I like
in my friends.

That's honestly,
what I like in men.

You know,

I'm the kind
of nerdy intellectual girl

who wants a nerdy
intellectual guy.

You know, you could find
you really enjoy talking to them

and, you know, you share taste,
but you also disagree on things,

but you learn from it.

I mean, we were just having
those kinds of experiences.

But, you know, I was married.

My marriage wasn't terrific,
but I wasn't, in any way,

thinking about going
outside the relationship.

I wasn't shopping around.
It was nothing like that.

At the time, if you'd asked me,

"how do you feel about DMan?"
It's, "Yeah, he's my friend."

I just really, really liked him

and I really,
really enjoyed his company,

and I was really impressed
by him.

In March of 2011,

I invited DMan to speak
to an undergraduate class

where we were talking
about disability issues.

So, students
were asking him questions

and somebody asked him about,

you know, what his hopes
and dreams were

and he talked about
going to college

and maybe being
a writer someday,

which was kind
of where he was heading.

And then somebody else
in the class said to him,

you know, "What about love,
what about relationships,

is that something
that you hope for?"

And he typed,
"I want that more than anything

but that doesn't happen

for people with disabilities
like mine..."

And... in that moment,

I mean what I wanted to say
was... ...I almost,

you know...

...I-- You know,
"You can have that with me."

I started
thinking about,

"Okay. Well, wow,
if this is the way I'm feeling,

okay, I've got
to think about this."

And I didn't-- I still didn't
want to say anything to him.

I was like, "Okay,
I've gotta figure this out."

I mean,
I had my husband and my kids.

I mean-- Okay.
I'm in love with DMan.

I realize this now but...

I'm not gonna say anything.

I have to sort all of this out.
It was awkward.

Then I saw him
about a week later,

and I found myself saying
that I helped the other people

that I do
facilitated communication with

because I believe
so strongly that

everyone has a right
to communication.

And-- But I said,

"I do what I do for you
because I love you."

And he typed...
he typed, "I know."

"I love you too."

And...
...I said, "I know."

He'd asked me to kiss him
and I did.

And then he said,
"Kiss me again."

And I did.
And he said, "So, now what?"

As things went along,

Derrick started going on
the speaking circuit, I guess.

Going to these conferences
and all.

And there started
to be some tension.

We were driving
to this event,

in suburban Trenton somewhere,

and my mama's playing
gospel music...

...and Anna goes
and turns the station.

And puts on classical music.

Derrick doesn't wanna hear this,
he wants to hear that.

She had ejected my gospel music.

So I hit it and it
went back to play.

Derrick loves gospel.

He goes to church,
he hears the music.

That assumption that he prefers

a high culture
of classical music

and not the low culture
of gospel,

I mean it was just
too much of a leap.

There were
different things that--

One day,
when we broke for lunch,

I was cutting up his chicken,

and she rolled over
to the table and said,

"What are you doing
giving him meat?"

"He's a vegetarian."

I said, "Nobody sent me
the freakin' memo."

There was another time

she's working with Derrick
on the computer.

I said something to the effect
of "Derrick...", just jokingly,

"...I can't wait to get home
so we can just get a beer,

and kick back, and just relax."
And then on the keyboard,

he said something
to the effect of,

"Well, I don't like beer.
I like red wine."

I just thought that
to be hella peculiar.

Derrick does not--

He doesn't even like
Communion wine.

If you're in a giving
care frame of mind,

you don't see the person
you're supporting

as somebody who's in a position
to make their own decisions,

who has their own ideas
about how they want things done.

Okay. Okay.

You wanna
give them some control

to develop into a person

who has a good sense
of themselves.

Come on.

So that part is...

a harder adjustment
for parents or teachers

who've been in a,
"I'm taking care of you" mode.

Turn your feet. Turn your body.
Now step off. Thank you.

And...

My mom kept telling me,
you know, Anna was saying that,

you know, she's too mothering,
she's smothering Derrick.

Derrick doesn't want all of this
help from her that, you know,

"You can't be Mom
all the time."

And all these different things

that it seemed to be breaking
my mom down.

And then to add to that,
this idea that,

"Oh, Derrick now wants
to live independently."

DMan had wanted to look

into a more independent
living arrangement.

Moving out of his mother's house

and moving into supported
living situation.

There was an organization
that was able to provide

supervised housing for Derrick.

Derrick would have individuals
looking out for him

twenty-four hours a day.

He would take classes.
He would get his degree.

As my mom was telling me this,
I thought,

"Where's this money
gonna come from for this?"

"'Cause it's not gonna be free."
And I just kind of saw that as,

all right, you're getting
a little too personal here.

Now, you're looking
into Derrick's support

and I just
wasn't comfortable with that.

I said, "Anna,
if he's gonna move into a place,

he's gonna move in the basement,

where John lived
before John got on his own."

"Derrick is not going anywhere."

"You need to cut
the apron strings."

I said, "How am I gonna
cut my apron strings

when Derrick cannot walk, talk,
or do anything on his own?"

"See, that's where you're wrong.
Derrick can do it."

"You're opening up
a whole new world for him."

The ways in which
she talked to my mom,

you know, not mothering
the proper way.

And saying that Derrick
doesn't like this

and wants this, or "Daisy,
you need to let him be a man."

It just kind of rubbed me
the wrong way.

Part of it might just be a level
of self-consciousness on my part

because I remember growing up
in late '80s, early '90s,

and, you know,
when my mom and dad

separated and then divorced,

the idea of single parenthood
was resonant.

There was all
these studies about, you know,

children of single-parent
households

just don't do well and,

you know,
invariably was framed around,

you know, "Black women
aren't good parents."

You know,
"There's things that Black women

can't teach their sons."

And all of that
was kind of in my ears.

Now, I think it's important
to recognize that my mom,

prior to all of this,

was affiliated
with a number of organizations

that were headed by women
of color who are advocates

for people of color
or with disabilities,

who otherwise may
have been overlooked.

For Anna to make
certain assumptions

about my mom's expertise

or her decision-making
and those kind of things,

it just has those racial
undertones and overtones.

It wasn't, like, you know,

"Nigga, get in the back
of the bus," kind of racism.

It wasn't that, but it was more
like making assumptions

based on the idea that some
people might be inherently...

...deficient.

Anna was just ignoring
the past 30-some-odd years

and everything that
my mom has done

to get us to this point, right?

And so, I had it in my mind,

we're gonna have a long
conversation,

we are gonna have to really
set some hard, fast rules,

or we may have to just kind
of begin to draw things down.

DMan and I had debated
on several occasions

whether we wanted to say
anything to Daisy and John

about the change
in our relationship.

We knew we were gonna
tell them eventually.

So, it was more just,

we were enjoying
that kind of initial beginning

of a romance
when it's very private,

and it's very intimate,
and it's just the two of you,

and it changes when you start
sharing with family.

But we had started
figuring out ways that we could,

you know,
try to spend time together.

And it was a Sunday.

DMan and I had made plans

to go to the film festival
in New York

where there was a film
being shown

called Wretches & Jabberers,
which was about FC users.

Daisy wanted
to go to church that morning

and in thinking
about locations and stuff

for eventual
romantic rendezvous,

we definitely
didn't want to use,

you know, his mother's house.

But, you know, here we are
at the house and she's not there

and it's difficult
for him to kiss.

So, we wanted to practice.
Like anything else,

it was a physical challenge
for him.

I could tell
that he is very tense

and every time
he tried to sit back,

he would kind of pop up again
and I said, like, "Talk to me."

"Obviously this is not working
for you, what's going on?"

And he typed, "I really,
really love being with you,

and I wanna be doing this

but I'm just really overwhelmed
right now. I need a minute."

And I said, you know, "Fine."

"Take all the time
you need. Of course."

So he scooted himself
down the hallway

and I got a glass of water,
I was just giving him some time.

And I said to him,
"Look, you know, you're the one

where this is all
a brand-new thing for you,

you've gotta call the shots.

You've gotta,
you know, I don't--

I don't wanna do anything
that makes you uncomfortable,

I don't wanna push
anything faster,

I don't know what's gonna work
for your body and what isn't,

so you tell me."

I was figuring
at that point that,

like, the moment had passed
and that was all right.

And he typed,
"May I touch your breasts?"

And I was like, "Wow. Okay.
I didn't know where that..."

You know, "That wasn't
what I was expecting."

"Okay."
And then he typed,

"Take your shirt off
all the way."

I was like, "Okay."
So, I did that and then he said,

"Take the rest
of your clothes off."

And, "Okay," so I did. And...

then he said, you know,
"I've dreamed about this."

It seemed to me
that what he was doing

was taking control
of the situation.

He was like really ordering
me around... ...and,

you know,
but that was kind of cool

because I wasn't
necessarily anticipating

that element
of the relationship.

He said,

"I long to hold you
the way that men do."

I said to him,
"Look, I feel held."

He said,

"Do you think that
it would even be possible

with my cerebral palsy
for us to make love?"

And I said, you know,

"I have no idea,
but there's only,

you know, there's only
one way to find out."

We had this meeting
scheduled for Memorial Day,

for DMan to talk
to Daisy and John

about the independent
living counselor.

And DMan brought up
or I brought up,

I don't even remember,

you know, should we also
use this opportunity

to tell them about the change
in our relationship?

But I said to him,

"Look, if Daisy and John
did get upset about this

and chose to separate us,

technically, that's a violation
of your rights,

but it would be very hard
to challenge them on that."

He said to me...

"...They would never
do that to me."

"They love me too much."

We all sit down

and there just seem to be
this awkwardness about it,

you know. If we're gonna
talk about business,

let's talk business.
But she seemed--

And she looked
to Derrick and said,

"Do you want me to tell them?"
And so I'm like, "Tell us what?"

And then,
she grabs Derrick's hand

and on the keyboard comes up,
"We are in love."

So he typed, you know,
"Anna and I are in love."

"And we, you know, had a--"

"We have
a physical relationship."

And John said something about,
you know, that, like,

"Do you use protection?"
And DMan said, "Yes."

She said, "Yes.
We have made love."

And I was like, "What?"
"Yes, we've made love."

"He's a man
in every sense of the word."

And what I did,
I sat on my hands...

and I said, "You did what?"

You know,
they asked me about

where things were at
with my husband

and, you know, I told them,

I really did wanna be with DMan
permanently to marry him,

that I hadn't talked
to my husband yet,

but that I was going
to very soon.

And there was a moment that
was part of the conversation

where he asked me to kiss him.

I found that a little awkward,
like, I didn't really want to.

In that moment, it's just like,

you know,
but he insisted, so I did.

I tried to be civil.

John had gone somewhere

and I think
he went down to throw up.

I was shocked.

I didn't really know
what to make of it at the time,

but I felt myself
getting so angry

and rage-filled that I left.
I went downstairs,

I paced the floor
a bunch of times.

I looked at the cracks
in the wall.

I remember I had to let
my anger subside.

I said goodbye to DMan
and Daisy was there

and she, you know,
came in and gave me a big hug

and said, you know,
"We'll get through this."

"We'll figure this out."

I was heading out the door
and just saying goodbye to DMan

and I said, you know,
I said to him, like,

"Good call, love, hon."
You know,

that it was a good choice
to tell them.

And I left. And, you know,
I was feeling fine.

John called me the next morning

about ten o'clock
in the morning.

And I think, I knew something
was gonna be wrong

when I saw he was calling.

He said, "Daisy and I
don't want you to see DMan

until you and--

She and I have a chance
to sit down and talk."

We sort of scheduled the meeting
then she pulled out,

then John or Daisy got back
to me and said, you know,

"We just don't wanna meet."

That was when--
Then I started calling Daisy.

She would talk to me
on the phone.

I would kind of address
her concerns

and talk about things.

And then she stopped
returning my calls.

Right.

One of the things that happened

with the facilitated
communication

was that part of the sessions
were for us,

Mom and I,
to also practice with him.

And so,
Anna would be there with him

and, you know,
a sentence will come out.

"All right, John, you try."

And so, I would try to
and I would get nothing.

You know, eventually,
he would apply pressure,

I may get two words
but it wouldn't make sense.

And then when my mom would try,
nothing would happen.

See all these marks on my arm,
that was Derrick's facilitating.

He would grab me
and pull my hand.

You know, take my hand
away from his.

The coaching from Anna was,
you have to keep trying,

you have to keep practicing,

you have to anticipate
what he's gonna say.

And that was one of those,
like, "Hmm."

That's when, I guess,

my own doubts
started to creep in,

and that's when I started
looking for the video

that I initially saw
in the classroom,

to see what in the world
am I doing wrong?

And that's when I stumbled upon
the Frontline documentary on FC.

Some people
had their doubts

about facilitated communication.

Dr. Howard Shane
has devoted his life

to helping disabled nonverbal
people to communicate.

You must be Doctor Shane.

How are you?
- Nice to meet you.

In 1990, I got a call
from a prosecutor

in Western Massachusetts

because someone
was being facilitated

and while being facilitated,
he mentioned that

his aid in his group residence
was sexually abusing him.

And the prosecutor
wanted to be sure

that this individual

was actually independently
communicating.

When you have somebody
hold your hand,

it obviously brings up
the question every time,

"Well,
are they being influenced?"

How can you be sure that
these individuals are actually,

you know,
independently communicating

or they aren't being facilitated
and really being influenced?

I went on to design a protocol

that would enable me
to determine

who was authoring the message.

Okay, folks.
What I'm gonna be doing now...

Shane had devised
a double-blind test like this.

He showed both
a series of pictures

and asked them
to type what they saw.

Betsy,
make sure you're looking at it.

When both Betsy
and her facilitator

saw a picture of a key,

the letters K-E-Y were typed.

But Shane wanted
to discover what happened

if each saw a different picture.

Okay.

When Betsy saw a cup,
she didn't type cup.

She typed hat.
What the facilitator saw.

Now, take a look at this one.
Okay.

When Betsy was shown
a picture of a dog,

she didn't type dog,
but sneakers.

What the facilitator saw.

Okay,
here is the next one.

Later work that I did
and others have done,

seems to indicate that
facilitators were doing this,

thinking that
they were giving people

the ability to be able
to communicate.

I don't think
that they are intentionally

trying to create
a false message.

They believe that this is coming

from the person
who is being facilitated.

The scientific
evidence suggested that

far from unlocking the minds
of autistic individuals,

FC tapped the unconscious
thoughts of the facilitator.

I just remember
thinking at the time,

you know, Derrick was writing
those papers,

what I find interesting
in hindsight,

is that a lot of it revolved
around this idea of,

you know, now I have a voice.

Now, I can speak and talk
and-- Whereas I was trapped,

now, I have this freedom.

And a lot of it
revolved around things

that just,
in my estimation, were not...

about Derrick.

And so, to me, it was just like,
this whole FC thing is bogus.

I never got any vibe
off of John or Daisy

that they didn't
100 percent believe

that what DMan said
was DMan's words.

I had been careful
in the beginning

to make sure
that I wasn't influencing him,

but there were so many...
so many situations

that he was telling me
information I didn't know.

And in the beginning,
I was checking it to make sure

that I wasn't influencing,

and the fact that we had
arguments and disagreements

and so on and so forth.

I mean, he very clearly
had his own mind.

He more than proved himself.

The homework assignments that
DMan had typed with Sheronda

and she hadn't read the books.

I mean, had John come
and talked to me

I had all of this proof

that I could have shared
with him to reassure him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right.

All right, so, it's...

Okay.

At the time,
we weren't trying

to pursue any kind
of legal thing,

we just wanted her
to leave us alone.

But then one day,

the director of Derrick's Day
Program got an email from Anna

and the gist of it was,

"Daisy and John have not allowed
me to see Derrick,

but Daisy and John don't know

what's in Derrick's
best interest,

but we as people who work

with people
with disabilities do."

And at that point,
I just thought,

You know, if she's gonna
go to these lengths

to try to get to Derrick
behind our back,

there's no telling
what she may do,

and I need to take steps
necessary to put an end to this.

And so, I made an appointment
to meet with the dean.

I remember going
into her office,

and I started to tell her
what was going on.

She kind of froze and was,
like, took a deep breath,

and was somewhat in disbelief.

I don't think I had taken
opportunity to kind of...

let myself release this emotion.

I just sat in that office...
...and I don't think

I've ever cried in front
of a White woman before,

but I just broke down...

...and she basically said to me
in so many words,

"John, make sure
you get a lawyer."

I got a phone call one day
from Daisy. And she said...

She said, "He's been biting
his hand a lot more,

he's really unhappy."

So she said, "I'm just
trying to understand

what happened
between the two of you."

To me, it sounded like,
"Oh, maybe this is an opening,

you know, maybe
they're seeing he's unhappy

and they're reconsidering,"

and so I was happy
to answer her questions.

You know, again,
that feels kind of weird

to talk about
with your lover's mother

but, you know, whatever,

if it kept
the conversation going

and if she was listening...

I found out later
that that was...

That phone call
had been setup by the police,

and they had coached her
on what to say,

and it was being recorded.

The date
is August 22nd, 2011.

This is regarding Special
Victims Unit Case No. S 11-0141.

The target of the investigation
is a one

Marjorie Anna Stubblefield.

The consenting party
is a one Daisy P. Johnson.

The crimes investigated

are crimes
of the sexual assault nature.

It was a Monday

and I was teaching class
in the afternoon.

So I pulled
into the parking lot,

and I was approached
by two people in plain clothes.

And they said,
"We're with the Essex County

Prosecutors Office

and we need to ask you
some questions."

And the only thing
I could think of

was something about a student.

You know, I'm wondering
what's going on.

And then they said, "Do you know
somebody named Derrick Johnson?"

I was like... "Okay."

You know, and that was starting
to penetrate that--

"Wow, okay, this is..."

So then I had to make
a decision on the spot

about how much do I say?

But I figured, you know what,
I didn't do anything wrong.

I talked to them
for about two hours

and I told them the whole story,

that we were in love
and all of that stuff.

I just didn't actually
say the words

that we consummated
the relationship.

They drove me back
to the parking lot at Rutgers.

And there was a person
I didn't know

who identified himself

as a representative
of the Dean's Office.

He handed me a letter
and the letter informed me

that as of this moment,

I was suspended from my teaching
duties at Rutgers.

I was not allowed on campus.

And while I was there,

they had gone to my house
with a search warrant.

My now-ex-husband was there,

so he's found out
that I'm under investigation.

This is Detective
Christine Wachowski

of the Essex County
Prosecutors Office.

I'm interviewing
Ms. Sheronda Jones.

Ms. Jones,
did there ever come a time

that you got involved
with Anna Stubblefield?

Yes.
My professor suggested her

because I work with children

with mental
and behavioral disorders.

So, she figured that it would
probably be a good connection

because she talked about working
with facilitated communication.

Can you tell me
a little bit about

about the facilitated
communication?

What kind of process is that?

Um, it's pretty much
me being an arm for DMan.

I would hold his arm up...

...while he would type out
whatever thoughts that he had

on a communication board.
He pretty much read the books.

I didn't know any information
about the book.

I can't tell you what he read.

And he typed out
the information.

One of my roommates
was in the class with him

and they pretty much wrote
some of the same things.

Today,
we're conducting an interview

with Ms. Karen Moore.

What do you do
at the university?

I teach
African American literature.

And how do you know
Ms. Stubblefield?

Well, she wrote to me.

He was not in my class
last semester

so it must have been 2010.

And when you say
"He", that's Derrick Johnson?"

I only knew him as DMan.
I didn't know

that was his name.
- Okay.

And Anna would assist with?

Well, you know
what that situation is.

They say that, you know,

the students are saying
what they want to say

while she's guiding
the hand, so.

Did he participate in the class?

He did. She-- He--
She-- He-- I guess would--

I don't know
that I really believe

that that actually
happens but...

So--

So, he would...
he would-- She would,

you know, write whatever
it was that he wanted to say.

She'd raise her hand
and she'd read it.

He would never
have verbalized anything or--

As far as I know,
he can't talk.

Okay.
- Yeah.

I got a call
from my assistant saying that

the Special Victims Unit
in New Jersey was calling.

Asked me if I would be willing

to provide some assistance
as an expert.

As it was described to me,
I'd never encountered any case

that mirrored
these particular circumstances.

I had never seen
anything like it.

In this case,
the question to me was,

"Could you evaluate Derrick

to understand his best level
of communication?"

From everything that I read,

there was a consistency
to the extent of his disability,

but I went in with an open mind.

I met him when he was brought
to the prosecutor's office.

He was accompanied
by his brother and his mother.

I already knew
that he had no speech.

So, I proceeded to introduce
different types of materials

for him to indicate,

pictures, photographs
which are very realistic.

It was difficult for him,

you know, I really didn't get
very much from that.

And he was able
to pick up some objects,

but not when I said,

you know, "pick up the spoon
or pick up the cup."

I did an interview of his mother

based on everything
that she had observed

and she certainly
was a very good observer.

I found that he was, you know,

functioning
at a pretty low level.

His way of telling you
that he wanted something to eat

was he would scoot over
to the refrigerator

and tap on the refrigerator,
that's very functional.

But to move from that

to pointing to a picture
of the refrigerator,

that's a greater level
of abstraction.

And in all the years he had been
in these different programs,

he had never moved
from the physical

to that type of communication.

I spent two
or three hours with him.

He spent a lot of time
just moving around the room.

He liked coat hangers.
So if he saw a coat hanger,

he would go over,
and he recognized that.

He liked to slap them
on the floor.

So I just basically reported
what I found.

I made a determination
that what I was observing

was consistent with what
the medical record had indicated

for, you know,
over 20 years of his life.

There was no one in the 20 years

who saw some sparkling of,
you know, something different.

I was actually
looking forward to the trial

as finally
this nightmare is gonna be over.

I knew she was not guilty
of anything.

I'm not guilty

of what they were
accusing me of.

If the accusation is
I have some weird perversion

that makes me want
to molest helpless,

intellectually impaired people,
that's simply not the case.

This whole thing
is framed in terms of consent

and his ability to consent

because I'm the one
who's accused of assault.

It's all... As if it was all
coming from me,

which is really not fair to him
because he seduced me,

and he deserves
some credit for that.

Here's this guy
who is so physically impaired

and he...

...got me to fall in love with
him and with his words.

The judge kept
taking things away

and taking things away
in terms of evidence.

I knew that DMan was the author
of what he typed.

I wasn't influencing him,
but at the end of the day,

I didn't have anything
except my word for that.

There was a morning
the prosecutor said

we're gonna bring DMan
into the courtroom.

It was Daisy
who walked him in.

I had to say who he was
and, you know, I was his mother.

And the fact that he could not
walk by himself independently,

I just walked him
in front of the judge

and then around
by the jury stand.

It was horrifying to me

that a human being had been
basically made an exhibit.

I know with DMan

there are ways
of walking with him

in which he looks
less handicapped.

And his mother walked DMan

in a way that made him look
as handicapped

and incapable
as one could possibly manage.

She turned around again
and she turned--

Always putting her body
in between him and me.

And walked him out.

What we didn't have on the jury

was anyone with significant
physical disabilities,

or, you know, that understanding

of a disability rights
perspective on the whole case.

At the end of the day,

it was just be myself
and tell my story,

and hopefully the jury
would see that guy over there

is this wonderful,
intelligent man

who I was in love with.

I wouldn't have fallen
in love with him

if he was somebody
that wasn't capable of consent.

I wouldn't have fallen
in love with him

if he wasn't interested
in reading books

and talking about ideas.

If somebody has an interesting
engaging mind,

and a good heart,
and a beautiful soul,

it shows through,
and you love the person,

and so you love
being close to them,

and you love the body
that they're in

because that's the body
that they have.

Was there any moment,

either during your time
with Derrick,

or during the trial, or now,
where you had doubts

about what might have occurred
between you two?

Never.

Her attorney came

and he was making me
to be the villain,

and he said,
"Well, how do you feel

about her being his lover?"

I said, "No."
I said, "She's not his lover."

This whore done
laid down, raped my son,

and I had to compose
myself because...

that's my son.

Days and nights, I walked
through hospital corridors

not knowing what was wrong
with my son.

Not knowing
his medical condition.

Him having seizures.

And for that moment,
I almost lost him.

I did.

I really did.

Because who does that?

Who does that?

And then go criticize me...

make me look like I'm nobody.
I don't understand.

Who does that?

I don't think that

Anna Stubblefield
truly recognized

how she devalued my brother
and also devalued my family.

It's one thing to...

hear Anna Stubblefield say,
"Derrick and I love each other."

Just like...

But as the details of what
actually transpired unfold

that she was in her office,
she had this mat on the floor,

and then you recall
that moment or that day

where I was changing
Derrick's diaper

and I saw these abrasions
on his back.

Strawberries, like somebody's
dragging you across the floor.

And we couldn't figure out

where the heck
these things came from.

We called the school.
"Did Derrick fall down?"

"Did something happen
at the school?"

"Did somebody hit my brother?"

And they're like,
"No, there was no--"

"Nothing happened.
We don't know."

Prosecutor was trying
to figure out what happened

and the story comes out, "Oh,

something happened
in the office."

And I mean, this woman,

140, 150 pounds-- I don't know
how much she weighs,

but she's much heavier than him.

Derrick is light,
he's five-three, five-four.

And she was exerting
so much force on him

that his back was being
drug across this mat

and it was leaving scars.

That woman did not give
a damn about my brother.

I didn't think
I was gonna be convicted,

but I wear contacts,

and that morning
when the jury came back,

I did put my glasses
in my purse.

It was my one
little concession to,

if I ended up in prison,
I needed my glasses.

I think by the time
the verdict actually came...

I was expecting it.

When the jury
read the conviction,

I started saying out loud
to the judge just, you know,

"Please, let me take care
of my daughter," you know,

"Just please, let me
take care of my daughter."

Never doubted her.
No, not for an instant.

I mean, I watched her interact
with people her whole life

and she is...

as compassionate a person
as I've ever known.

And there's no way-- I mean,
she's never harmed anybody.

And there's certainly no way
she would've harmed DMan.

Do you think
she believed that he was typing?

Yeah, in her wicked mind.
In her wicked mind.

The State versus
Marjorie Anna Stubblefield,

indictment number 13-1-44.

We are here today
for the sentencing

of Marjorie Anna Stubblefield.

Yes, Your Honor.

The victim's brother,
John Johnson,

would like to address the court.

His mother would like
to approach

and stand with him
while he addresses the court.

That's fine.

Good afternoon,
Your Honor.

Good afternoon.

"Thirty-four years ago,
a doctor said

my brother would not live
to see his third birthday."

"Those doctors
and the devil are liars."

"My brother, since then,

has grown to become
a loving person."

"He is a beautiful brother,
and he is a beautiful son."

"I don't think Anna understood

the depth of pain
she caused my family."

"She tried to lay claim to him
and rename him."

"She tried to supplant
Derrick's life."

"A life steeped..."

Take your time.

Take your time.

"A life steeped
in the history

and culture of his God-fearing,

Southern-rooted
African American family."

"She tried to supplant that

with some version of life
she thought was better."

"We need to disenchant ourselves
from the notion

that Anna Stubblefield
is some tragic shero."

"Anna is not Sandra Bullock
and this is not The Blind Side."

"Derrick is not some
poor Black kid from the ghetto

that needs someone to save him."

"An able-bodied woman
raped a disabled young man

that could not consent to sex.
You were wrong, Anna."

"You committed a crime,
there is no gray area."

"In closing, thank you,
Your Honor,

for helping bring this ordeal
to a close."

I have read
and received letters

from the former husband
of the defendant

who wrote a very compelling
impact statement.

"I believe that Anna
is a pathological liar

and narcissist."

"She will stop at nothing

to fool the court
and seek vindication

regardless of the emotional
and financial expense

to her family
or the primary victim's family."

"Clearly I am distraught,

but this, and the impact
on my immediate family,

I leave it to the wisdom
of the court

to determine a just sentence."

Miss Stubblefield, please stand.

As to count one,

first-degree
aggravated sexual assault

where the victim
was physically helpless

or mentally incapacitated,

I sentence you to 12 years
in New Jersey State Prison.

As to count two,

I sentence you to 12 years
New Jersey State Prison

concurrent with count one.

After you are released
from prison,

you are placed on parole
supervision for life.

I never thought
that she was a predator.

She truly believed
that what she was doing

was in Derrick's best interest.

She thought
that he deserves the opportunity

to have a life outside of,

you know,
living with his mother.

But I think that given
what I observed

and what I learned
from his record,

I think that it would have been
a false life with Anna.

I think that
she was a unfortunate victim

of a methodology
that's very problematic.

However she interpreted
what was going on

and whether she actually had
those conversations with him,

I don't know. But she--
You know, from my perspective,

she was having
conversations with herself.

And, you know, I mean...

...I don't know
where do you even go with that.

When I first
came out of prison,

I managed to pick up
a waitressing job,

and then there was some
publicity around

when I did the plea bargain
and I was sentenced in

and one of their customers
complained

and so they let me go.

So I was doing that kind
of thing for the first year,

and then-- Well, I do have,

you know, what's now,
kind of part-time work.

I'm working at home,
nobody knows me,

and so, you know, that's okay.

But it's, you know,
it's not teaching.

That was my whole identity.
That was everything.

I don't know what DMan's life
is like now.

As far as his mother
and brother,

I think they had
to really decide

that he wasn't intelligent,
and he wasn't typing,

and it was all a fraud
and a hoax.

A friend of mine

who is another--
Who's somebody else

who uses facilitated
communication who...

who'd knew DMan
and was friends with DMan.

And he said, "Look, I--

If I was DMan,
I would rather have,

you know, had the relationship
with you and lost it

than never to have had it
in the first place."

So I hope that he's right,
you know.

But... yeah.

People don't think
that there was damage done.

Yes, there was.

And it's still going on.

I had to put him on medication.

Because he...

masturbates.

He has this urge

and, you know, it's like a itch
that he can't scratch.

And it's hard enough
to give him a life

without him going through that.

And she did that.

Because if you don't ever strike
that match or do whatever,

how will you ever know?

Showing all your muscles, huh?
You good?

Ready?

One of the tough things
about this whole process

is that there was this idea

that, "Oh, he can do
all these wonderful things."

And then to have to--

Looking at everything
that was taking place

then say, "But he can't."

You gotta walk like...

All right.

In a sense, I kind of felt

as though
I was diminishing his value,

you know, Derrick can't do that.

...pick 'em up and put 'em down.
Pick 'em up.

Going through that process
of having to recognize that,

"Damn, he is really disabled."
And that's fine.

He can't do all other things
that other people can do

and that's perfectly fine

because we're gonna
be all right, regardless.

Okay.

Oh, you're gonna
show 'em that smile?

Yeah, say, "Here I am!"

Did psychiatrists determine

that Derrick
was deemed incapable

and incompetent
of taking care of himself?

Well, I knew.

I knew.

And knowing, and accepting it,
and just embrace him.

Just love him for who he is.

No matter what or how...

strong he gets,
he's still my child.

He will always have
that younger mindset.

And I-- You know,
he is 40 years old

and that's where we are.

You good?

And I don't love him no less,
and I don't love him no more.

He is my baby.
He is my baby.