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okay your final failure meditation now
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you say it's a failure but you meditate
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for 2 hours a day yes one 1 hour in the
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morning and 1 hour in the evening
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usually yes so why do you categorize it
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as a failure um again it's it's it's not
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exactly a failure but in meditation you
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constantly fail but uh this is a good
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thing this is part of of the meditation
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the meditation often is a process of
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observing uh your failure and coming to
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term terms with it because you know like
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the most basic at least in in the type
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of meditation that I practice vipasana
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which I I've learned here in the UK when
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I was doing my PhD in Oxford so I went
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to a center uh near Herod and learned
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from a teacher called esen goenka uh
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vasana meditation and the first and most
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basic instruction sounds incre
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incredibly easy you just focus your
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entire attention on your own breath
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around the nostrils and around the nose
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you just feel when the breath is coming
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in and when it's going out that's it you
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don't need to control the breath it's
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not a breathing exercise you just need
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to observe to feel is it coming in or is
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it going out that's it and the amazing
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thing is it's so difficult like you do
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it for 5 seconds 10 seconds 20 seconds
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and then your mind wanders away some
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memory comes some thought comes some
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fantasy comes and you start rolling in
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the memory for like 5 minutes before you
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remember hey I actually supposed to be
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feeling my breath and you come back to
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it and you do it for 30 seconds and and
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then again it runs away and when when I
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went to my first course this was such a
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shock that again I have no control over
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my mind I don't know what's happening
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there like I thought I was very
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intelligent and and person and by then I
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was also out as as a gay man and I
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thought okay I know my deep Secrets now
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and here I am sitting with closed eyes
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trying to do this simple simple thing of
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just feeling the breath coming in and
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out I can't do it for more like 20
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seconds what's happening and it's been
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like 24 years since then I've been
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practicing two hours every day every
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year I go to a long retreat of 30 days
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or 60 days of meditation and still I you
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know I do it for a few minutes and the
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mind wanders somewhere so it's a failure
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in this sense uh but this is how I get
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to know my mind and this is how I get to
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know
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reality this is the real the inner
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reality of what's happening in my mind
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and uh noticing this and also noticing
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where the mind wanders away and what
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happens to the body and to the mind when
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a particular thought comes up uh this is
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a process of of uh getting to know
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yourself not by reading books about
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psychology or about biology or whatever
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you're actually in a laboratory
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observing yourself second by second and
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really there is nothing like that in the
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world it's so interesting to hear you
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describe it as a laboratory where you're
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observing your mind because a lot of
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people would describe it as a spiritual
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practice I'm a scientist I know so are
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you uneasy with the idea that it's a
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spiritual practice I don't think there
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is any contradiction between these two I
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mean for me spirituality is about big
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questions what is the meaning of life
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who am I and the willingness to follow
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these questions wherever they lead you
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and this uh stands in contrast I think
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to established religions which require
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you to believe in a certain Dogma so the
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answer is at the center not the
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question uh whereas science is in this
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sense much more spiritual science also
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is about raising these big questions and
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following them of course with different
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tools like scientists also one of the
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biggest questions in science is what is
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consciousness how does electrical
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activity between billions of neurons how
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does this create the sensation of pain
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we have no idea but we we investigate so
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in the scientific laboratory we
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investigate it with tools like
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microscopes in meditation we investigate
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the same question basically what is pain
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where is it coming from but by directly
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observing the pain not with the help of
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any microscope but just feeling the
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pain God that's so well
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explained uh my final question it's a
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slightly odd one but I'm interested so
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that's I'm going to ask it okay so odd
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questions are the best good so if
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someone were to ask you where do you
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want to go for dinner tonight or uh what
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hotel would you like to stay in or what
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time would you like to fly or what do
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you want to wear today do you answer
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from your feeling or your
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intellect I often let my husband decide
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so interesting do you think you're a
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people pleaser in some ways yes but in
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other ways completely no I mean I please
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them in the um areas which are less
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important to me why fight about it let
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them do what they want but when
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something is really important then then
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no like again like like with these
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meditation Retreats I disappear every
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year for like 30 days or 60 days if you
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ask my husband or my mother or the
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people in my company about it I'm not
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sure they're happy about it but it's
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just like I I put it in the calendar
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like you know I'm I won't be available
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from like the 1st of December to the 1st
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of February deal with it I imagine it's
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also because your intellect is so
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overworked a lot of the time and you're
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constantly having to make decisions
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about what to write and what to think so
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sometimes if someone asks you where to
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go for dinner you're like I don't just
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just too
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much absolutely but if I forced you and
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if I said okay you're in London tonight
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and you can eat one kind of Cuisine M
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does that response come from feeling or
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thought I think from feeling but I would
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probably pick a place I've already been
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to I I I'll go I'll go for the safe
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Choice ever the scientist but as we now
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know that's also being a bit spiritual
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follow the questions I want that on a
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t-shirt thank you for watching make sure
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to check out the full episode of how to
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fail on your preferred podcast platform
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and also be sure to follow us on social
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