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Whaddya know?
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'World War II provided
the setting for many novels and films
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00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,160
that appeared after the war.'
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00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,319
Come on. Come on.
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00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,359
'They were significant as a means of
exploring commercially
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00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,359
some of the struggles that lay behind
the battlefields
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00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,399
of Europe and beyond. The British
war movies made of these novels
8
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,679
achieved great success
in the 1970s and 1980s.
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00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,639
"Formulaic" in Roger Ebert's account,
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00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,480
they nevertheless attracted large
and appreciative audiences.'
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Halt! Halt!
12
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,000
Halt!
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00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,279
'These books and films include
Alistair MacLean,
14
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,320
who combines both the
Second World War and the Cold War.
15
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,999
His key espionage novel is
Where Eagles Dare,
16
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,119
exploring themes of patriotism,
17
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,480
courage and the cost of espionage.'
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00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,639
Broadsword calling Danny Boy,
19
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,520
Broadsword calling Danny boy, over.
20
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,280
"Broadsword calling Danny Boy,
Broadsword calling Danny boy, over.
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00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,240
Broadsword, sir.
22
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,119
Danny Boy calling Broadsword,
come in Broadsword, over.
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00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,959
MacPherson murdered, Thomas
Christiansen and Berkeley captured.
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00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,359
I'm affecting entrance
within the hour.
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00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,920
"Please have transport standing by,
over."
26
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,479
Pull out now, Broadsword,
save yourselves, over.
27
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,559
You must be joking, over and out.
28
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,560
That is an order Broadsword, over.
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00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,119
Broadsword. Broadsword!
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00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,280
'His theme of the secret traitor is
seen again in the Guns of Navarone.
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00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,520
And in all Maclean's espionage
novels, it features prominently.
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00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,319
Ken Follett's Eye of the Needle,
tells of the thwarted plans of
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00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,520
a ruthless Nazi spy whose downfall is
brought about by his falling in love.
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00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,279
The wind howled against the windows
as the storm intensified.
35
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,199
In the dim light of the study
the radio crackled to life,
36
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a voice steady but urgent,
37
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800
spoke of an impending invasion.
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00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,199
The war was coming closer
and for the first time
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00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,920
Faber realised just how much
was riding on him.
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00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,759
The Nazis needed him
to get a message through,
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00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,160
the allies needed him to fail.
42
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,919
But in the end
it would be his own choice,
43
00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:10,520
his own survival that would determine
the course of the war
44
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,360
and the stakes had never been higher.
45
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,759
Jack Higgins's The Eagle Has Landed,
published in 1975,
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00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,720
was made into a film starring Michael
Caine and Donald Sutherland in 1976.'
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00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,559
By the way, have you found out
who Stalin is yet?
48
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,559
Of course I have.
49
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,559
Why?
Because I am hoping it is not him.
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00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,959
It isn't.
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00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,960
I want him buried right away.
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00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,039
'The causes of the Cold War,
or, more importantly,
53
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,159
who caused the Cold War, the subject
of continuing controversy,
54
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,520
was it the Americans,
or was it the Russians?
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00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,360
Espionage was not really something
exclusive, and clandestine,
56
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,160
it was actually the currency
of the Cold War.
57
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,200
Spies were the poor, bloody infantry
of the Cold War.
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00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,759
For the West,
notwithstanding the debate,
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00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,040
the Truman Doctrine of 1947
was a prime cause.
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00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,639
The Truman Doctrine
was designed to prevent the spread
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00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,719
of aggressive communism in Europe.
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00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,479
It was created from the long telegram
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00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,320
by American diplomat George Kennan
in 1946.
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00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,239
Kennan wrote that the battle between
these two centres
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00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,319
for command of world economy
will decide the fate of capitalism
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00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,520
and of communism in the entire world.
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00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,599
George Kennan argued for
a form of warfare through espionage,
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00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,599
and in particular
through adversarial spying.
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00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,199
The atmosphere of this world of
partition and division and conflict
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00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,279
is evoked in Carol Reed's film of
Graham Greene's novella
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00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:04,639
The Third Man.'
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00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,639
Who are you looking for now?
73
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,640
Stop, just please don't.
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00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,200
Silly looking bunch.
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00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,119
Spies moved centre stage
during the Cold War,
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where everything was concealed,
where those hostilities
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between nations and ideologies
moved underground
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00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,959
and the period of the Cold War
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00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,879
was where the development of spy
fiction,
80
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,359
spy films begins, I think,
81
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,079
to exhibit
a certain kind of coherence.
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00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,520
'From the anarchist of
Tsarist Russia,
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00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,800
to the IRA of 1916.
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00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:00,280
From the Ergun and the Stern Gang
85
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,439
to the EOKA in Cyprus,
86
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,999
from the Baader-Meinhof Group
in Germany, the CCC in Belgium,
87
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,039
the Action Direct in France,
the Red Brigades in Italy,
88
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,879
the Red Army Faction again
in Germany,
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00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,120
the Rengo Sekigun in Japan,
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00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,679
through to the Shining Path in Peru,
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00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,719
to the modern IRA in Ulster...
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00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,799
...or the ETA in Spain,
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00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,439
terrorism came from the minds of
the comfortably raised,
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00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,319
well educated, middle-class theorists
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00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,559
with a truly staggering
personal vanity
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00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,440
and a developed taste for
self-indulgence.'
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00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,079
Frederick Forsyth was among
that group of writers
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00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,439
who had some direct experience
of the world of espionage
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00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,799
and that feeds in to his fiction.
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00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,359
There is a sense of felt detail
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00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,879
in the intricacies of his plots,
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00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,160
that arise from experiences
that he had had.
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00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,719
'The man in the grey suit walked into
the hotel lobby, calm and unhurried.
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00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,640
He had done this
a thousand times before.
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00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,799
He wasn't just any assassin, he was
a ghost, a shadow in the night.
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00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,400
He didn't have a name, only a number.
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His past was a blank slate,
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erased for his own safety.
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His future? A single mission.
To kill a man.
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00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,359
He'd been trained for this,
honed like a blade,
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00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,039
and now, the time had come.
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As he approached the desk to
check in, the bellboy didn't look up.
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He didn't need to.
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The Jackal was already
a ghost in his mind.
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There would be no trace left,
no sign of his passing.'
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00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,879
If we take The Odessa File
as an example,
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00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,719
this is a novel that describes
the relentless pursuit
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of an SS officer
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00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,560
after the end of the war
by a young German.
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00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,319
It turns out that this officer
has been central to the development
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00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,319
of the Odessa Organisation,
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00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,799
those who had not abandoned
Nazi ideology
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00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:45,680
and were working for the overthrow
of the State of Israel.
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00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,639
The Odessa Organisation was
described in such detail
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that many readers thought
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that Forsyth was talking about
something that had
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00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,079
historical existence,
that it was real.
128
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,119
So the organisation is dismantled,
but the villain escapes.
129
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,759
There's an interesting contrast
between that escape
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00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,879
and what happens
in the film version.
131
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:16,159
In the film version, there is
a dramatic confrontation between
132
00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,999
Miller and the villain Roschmann,
at the end of the film,
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and the villain is shot dead.
134
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,279
The SS officer does not escape
135
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and does not survive.
136
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,119
I didn't do it.
I couldn't even shoot straight.
137
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,399
If you kill me, you'd be killing
- the wrong man.
- You're disgusting.
138
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,519
But I tell you, it was Kurt Krause.
139
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,999
You can tell that
to the German people, Roschmann.
140
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I will, I will tell them.
141
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,879
You're not even worth a bullet.
142
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I even have letters
to prove what I say.
143
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,639
A woman wrote to me from New York.
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00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,839
I was only 11 months there in
charge. There was not one hanging
145
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,879
or shooting during that time,
I was really considered a joke!
146
00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:01,719
So both book and film are raising
difficult moral questions
147
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,479
about what it means to forgive
or to forget betrayal
148
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,120
in a historical perspective.
149
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,840
'To understand everything is
to forgive everything.
150
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,840
When one can understand the people,
151
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,520
their gullibility and their fear,
their greed and their lust for power,
152
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,880
their ignorance and their docility
to the man who shouts the loudest,
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00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,040
one can forgive.
154
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,320
Yes, one can forgive
even what they did,
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00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,240
but one can never forget.'
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Whether we can forgive,
whether we can forget,
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but they do so in a different
cultural context.
158
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,039
And I think you see that repeatedly
159
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,800
in film versions of spy stories.
160
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,000
'It is cold at 6:40 in the morning
on a March day in Paris,
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00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,599
and seems even colder
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00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,080
when a man is about to be executed
by firing squad.'
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00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,519
Robert Harris's Fatherland,
made into a film in 1994,
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00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,319
is set in post-war Europe and
imagines what the consequences
165
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,719
of a Nazi victory might have been.
166
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,560
It was an influential example of
alternative history.
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The room was oppressive,
168
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,320
the air thick with the smell
of old paper and dust.
169
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,599
Xavier March stared at the files
in front of him,
170
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,680
chilling realisation dawning on him
with each page he turned,
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00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,639
the world was not what
he'd thought it was.
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00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,919
History had been rewritten,
173
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,800
and now it was up to him
to uncover the truth.
174
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,080
As a member of the Nazi Party,
March had always followed orders,
175
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,879
but now, as he dug deeper,
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00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,999
he realised that the very foundation
of his beliefs
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00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,480
were built on lies.
178
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,039
The Cold War shifted the focus
of spy fiction
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00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,439
from resistance to Nazi Germany,
180
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,599
to the conflict between communist
powers - primarily the Soviet Union -
181
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,360
and the capitalist West in
the decades following World War II.
182
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,439
Anthony Horowitz's long-running
television series Foyle's War,
183
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,959
which began with episodes
featuring Christopher Foyle
184
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,559
as a high-minded police detective,
185
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,399
uncovering various crimes
during World War II,
186
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,759
ends with a much darker series
of plots,
187
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,959
based on his involvement with
ethically questionable MI5 operations
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00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,399
after the end of the war.
189
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,159
It's a telling illustration
of a cultural shift.'
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00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,679
If there was a traitor in SOE...
SOE is finished, disbanded.
191
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,159
The traitor could have moved on,
192
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,159
could be in intelligence,
could be in government.
193
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,719
Sir Ian Woodhead is my counterpart
at MI6,
194
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,639
Eric Caplin is a member
of the Gen 75 Committee,
195
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,880
it is inconceivable that either of
them could have divided loyalties.
196
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,959
'Graham Greene's Catholicism led to
him consistently interpreting...
197
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,240
...international affairs
within an ethical framework.
198
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,680
Every novelist has something
in common with a spy.'
199
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,679
White Hart Hotel.
200
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,680
Yes, Colonel White is staying here.
201
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,879
I'm afraid he's fast asleep
at this time, sir.
202
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,440
Very good. I will.
203
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,320
'He watches.'
204
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,720
White here.
You're through, sir.
205
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,679
Oh, hello, David.
206
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,119
This is a hell of a time to ring up.
I'm sorry, sir, but it's urgent.
207
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,519
'He overhears.'
208
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,559
You're going to be
inspected on Friday by
209
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,359
a very important personage,
about as important as anybody can be
210
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,359
in this country.
211
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,000
'He seeks motives and
analyses character.'
212
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,199
'His The Quiet American,
written in 1955,
213
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,400
had film versions in 1958 and 2002.
214
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,999
They address American policy
in Indochina,
215
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,279
rather than the communist block,
216
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,959
and predict the later destructive
tangles
217
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,200
of American involvement in Vietnam.'
218
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,239
It's not like you can really help
- these people.
- You have a gun,
219
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,240
either of you?
No.
220
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,279
They shall attack again tonight.
221
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,760
You don't want to be taken alive,
believe me.
222
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,360
Shoot yourselves.
- Thank you.
- Thanks.
223
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000
'It was a dangerous belief,
224
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,120
and it would be his undoing.
225
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,400
He didn't understand the complexities
of the world,
226
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,520
nor the true cost of
his interference.
227
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,839
I had tried to warn him,
228
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,320
but like all the others,
he wouldn't listen.
229
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,960
He thought he could control things,
230
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,160
but the world didn't work that way.
231
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,640
In the end,
he would learn the hard way,
232
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,960
if he lived to learn it at all.
233
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,839
Graham Greene's introduction
to Kim Philby's memoirs
234
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,360
was regarded as
worse than equivocal by some.
235
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,839
No place here for the importance
of the defence of the realm,
236
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,239
an unanswered question that runs
through the history of spies
237
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,559
and spy masters alike, is heard also
in E M Forster's comment,
238
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,839
"If I had to choose between betraying
my country and betraying my friend,
239
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,360
I hope I should have the guts
to betray my country."'
240
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,240
Old man, you never should've
gone to the police, you know?
241
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,240
You oughta leave this thing alone.
242
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,319
Have you ever seen
any of your victims?
243
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,720
You know, I never feel comfortable
on these sort of things.
244
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,160
Victims, they can be melodramatic.
245
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,759
Look down there.
246
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,319
Would you really feel any pity
if one of those dots
247
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,320
stopped moving forever?
248
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,839
If I offered you £20,000
for every dot that stopped,
249
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,119
would you really, old man,
tell me to keep my money?
250
00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:25,199
Or would you calculate how many dots
you could afford to spend,
251
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,239
free of income tax, you know?
252
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,879
Free of income tax.
Well, you can save money now.
253
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,680
Lot of good your money'll do you in
- jail.
- That jail's in another zone.
254
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,440
There's no proof against me.
Besides you.
255
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:43,919
'Our Man in Havana, set in Cuba,
256
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,559
mocks some of the absurdities of MI6,
257
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,320
absurdities that Greene
had experienced personally.
258
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,959
The film version in 1959,
though set as a comedy,
259
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,639
had serious undertones.'
260
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,999
Perhaps they're using us as bait.
Of course, if the bait's no good,
261
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000
you throw it away.
262
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,639
'The film of The Third Man,
caught in its visual styling
263
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,879
of a shadowy Vienna,
264
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,160
the threat and menace of the
pervasive atmosphere of the Cold War.
265
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,039
The Third Man was a masterpiece
266
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,759
based on a screenplay by
Graham Greene,
267
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,479
directed by Carol Reed,
268
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,679
shot by cinematographer
Robert Krasker,
269
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,279
and underlain by the zither music
of Anton Karas,
270
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,799
a surprise number one hit in 1950
271
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,080
and was on the Billboard chart
for 11 weeks in the USA.
272
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,799
We had a day and a night unit.
273
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,679
We worked from 8pm until 5am,
274
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,799
then went to bed, got up at 10am,
worked with the day unit until four,
275
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,119
and then went back to bed
until eight.
276
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:04,600
It's a bit of a rush, but it's better
to rush than not get it all.'
277
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,280
When people think of the Cold War,
278
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,560
they think of it as a struggle
between East and West.
279
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,839
What wave after wave of
declassification
280
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,559
over the last ten to 20 years
281
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,519
has really shown, is that there was
a global Cold War going on.
282
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,239
When we think of the Cold War,
we think of the, you know,
283
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,119
the snowy windswept streets
of Berlin and Vienna and Prague,
284
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:37,919
but actually the clandestine
Caribbean, Africa, Latin America.
285
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,359
These were all places that saw a lot
of intelligence activity.
286
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,919
The Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962,
287
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,919
was the most dangerous moment in
British history
288
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,759
and in world history, but because
we're a small offshore island,
289
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,559
if nuclear warfare had broken out,
290
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,479
we would by now simply be a hole in
the North Sea...
291
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,439
...whereas there would be
bits of the United States
292
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,440
and bits of Russia surviving.
293
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,519
Acting, therefore, in the defence of
our own security
294
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,200
and of the entire Western Hemisphere,
295
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,239
and under the authority entrusted
to me by the Constitution,
296
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,239
as endorsed
by the resolution of the Congress,
297
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,159
I have directed that the following
initial steps be taken immediately.
298
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,439
All ships of any kind bound for Cuba,
from whatever nation or port,
299
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,320
were they found to contain cargos of
offensive weapons be turned back.
300
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,199
In terms of
an intelligence collection,
301
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,839
I think the biggest single success
of Stalin's Russia
302
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,600
was getting the secrets
of the atomic bomb.
303
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,959
The biggest British intelligence
failure that we know about
304
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,239
in the 21st century,
is without doubt the belief that
305
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,639
Saddam Hussein in Iraq
had weapons of mass destruction,
306
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,959
which was a terrible, but I think
understandable error.
307
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,960
It is absolutely essential
308
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,999
that we ensure that Saddam Hussein
309
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,519
cannot go back to developing weapons
of mass destruction,
310
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,599
weapons of nuclear, chemical,
biological warfare.
311
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,439
What was he saying in public?
312
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,559
We don't have any weapons
of mass destruction.
313
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,199
What was he saying in private?
Of course we have weapons
314
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,639
of mass destruction.
But why was he saying that?
315
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,919
Not because it was true, but he knew
that if he told it to his advisors,
316
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,719
it would get through to Iran.
317
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,119
What about the Israelis?
318
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,879
He was afraid the Israelis
might attack him,
319
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,959
but he thought they would be
deterred if they thought he had
320
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,759
weapons of mass destruction.
So there we are.
321
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,119
It was an understandable, but
nonetheless a humiliating failure
322
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:52,160
on the part of British intelligence.
323
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,519
'But the upfront reason is that
he was reclaiming
324
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,199
rightful Iraqi territory.
325
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,399
Look, it happens all over the world.
326
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,439
India took Goa, China took Tibet,
327
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:11,439
Indonesia has taken East Timor,
Argentina tried for the Falklands.
328
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,600
Each time the claim is retaking
a chunk of rightful territory.
329
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,960
It's very popular
with the home crowd, you know."'
330
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,199
Knowing about one's successes and
failures is quite fundamental
331
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,239
for any intelligence and
security service,
332
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,479
and I think it's also important
for people to know,
333
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,519
because based on that,
they can judge the capability
334
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,359
of their governments and
their government spies.
335
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,759
When we look at
20th-century history,
336
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,799
there's quite a lot of
intelligence failures
337
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,919
that governments
have been learning from.
338
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,679
One of them was the failure to see
the fall of the Shah of Iran
339
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,679
in 1979. That was a big one.
340
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,600
Then it was also the failure to see
the fall of the Soviet Union.
341
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,959
In some ways an intelligence failure
was also not really seeing that
342
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,679
the Arab Spring will kick off
in 2011.
343
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,439
And then there's other failures
that have occurred,
344
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,799
such as the invasion
of the Falkland Islands.
345
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,159
But also other types of failures,
analytical failures, for instance,
346
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,919
in the run-up to the Iraq War.
347
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,439
There was clearly a failure
in the West to understand
348
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,599
that Saddam Hussein did not have
the WMD capability
349
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,160
that many Western services, not all,
but many, did think he have.
350
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,999
'The CIA,
in accounts like Hugo Wilford's
351
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,559
The CIA: An Imperial History,
352
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,319
is described as a quasi imperial
organisation,
353
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,439
following the policies of the empires
of Britain and France,
354
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,599
engaging in everything from regime
change to having thoroughly mistaken
355
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,799
the assessment of many political
situations,
356
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,479
not least that of the intentions of
Saddam Hussein,
357
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,279
though they were not alone in that.
358
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,759
Steve Coll in his book
The Achilles Trap,
359
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,599
additionally writes,
360
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,319
"Like many people in the Middle East
and elsewhere,
361
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,200
Saddam thought of the CIA
as all-knowing.
362
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:14,159
Saddam Hussein assumed that the US
was fully aware of his plans
363
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,279
to invade Kuwait. He mistook
President Bush's lack of objection
364
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,279
for permission."
365
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,359
Cole further writes,
"Years later while imprisoned
366
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:28,159
Saddam confronted a CIA officer
about this."
367
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,839
"If you didn't want me to go in,"
368
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:35,239
the officer recalls Saddam asking,
"why didn't you tell me?"'
369
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,839
When it comes to thinking about
the war on terror,
370
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,879
and it comes to thinking about
the 911,
371
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,119
what I'll call the 911 wars,
the period after September 2001
372
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:48,879
where you see Western intervention
across the globe,
373
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,919
these are stories,
374
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,879
framing stories, that perhaps offer
375
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,880
a more conflicted,
ethical dimension.
376
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,479
Whereas in the Cold War, MI6 is,
377
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,559
you know, often for individuals
on the side of the good guys.
378
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,799
So there is clear good guys,
bad guys element to framing here.
379
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,839
When you get to the post 911 wars,
there is, in the real world,
380
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,639
this morally ambiguous area
when it comes to real world episodes
381
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,559
such as hostile interrogation, rendition.
382
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:29,639
The Iraq War creates this
politically divisive period
383
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,319
of British political history,
384
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,880
where there are those
for the conflict and those against.
385
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,839
It's really interesting to
see how this understanding of
386
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,519
intelligence being a secret business
has changed
387
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,840
in the past 20 years or so.
388
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,919
When you think of the way
the Iraq war was sort of built on
389
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,119
this amount
of classified information
390
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,439
and justified on very secret
information,
391
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,720
which were, of course, a lie.
392
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,279
But then you have the events
leading up to this,
393
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,839
Russia's invasion of Ukraine,
394
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,759
where you have an extraordinary
amount of information
395
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,799
being declassified
by President Biden,
396
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,439
in order to deter Russia's action,
397
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,559
and it says a lot about this sort of
tension of how much information
398
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,359
should remain classified,
399
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,719
because secrecy
is about temporality.
400
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,399
Having a secret, having a state
secret is a question of time,
401
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,960
because this is what gives you
the strategic advantage.
402
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,599
John le Carre was the most
successful spy writer
403
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,599
and indeed author of books which
have also been the best spy films
404
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,519
of the last 50 years.
405
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,159
One of the unusual things
about his novels,
406
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,399
derived from the fact that he was
the only example I can think of,
407
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,599
of a major spy novelist,
408
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,959
who worked at different times
for both MI5,
409
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,999
the British security service,
410
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,640
and MI6,
the Foreign Intelligence Service.
411
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,040
'John le Carre redefined
the literary ambitions of the genre.'
412
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,639
I was immediately charmed by him.
413
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,039
I mean, he was
the most delightful company.
414
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,679
He rapidly became to me,
not John le Carre,
415
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,399
as he's, as he had been up until
that point,
416
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,400
but David Cornwell, his real name.
417
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,479
'He had lived through all these lies,
these betrayals,
418
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,560
and yet there was nothing but
a kind of tired cynicism left.
419
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,639
He had forgotten how to be shocked,
420
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,079
how to be outraged.
421
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,640
The game was the game and in the end,
it would swallow them all.
422
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,919
He had been a soldier once, fighting
in a war he didn't believe in
423
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,639
and now he was a spy,
424
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,160
trying to fight a battle
no one had ever explained.'
425
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,279
But what does he do in his novels?
426
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,679
He amalgamates MI5 and MI6
427
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,879
into a single
British Intelligence Service,
428
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,960
which he calls The Circus.
429
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,440
'"Why spy?
430
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,040
For as long as rogues become leaders
we shall spy.
431
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,399
For as long as there are bullies and
liars and madmen in the world,
432
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,600
we shall spy.
433
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,360
For as long as nations compete,
and politicians deceive,
434
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,239
tyrants launch conquest
435
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,280
and consumers need resources,
436
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,960
and the homeless look for land,
437
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,880
and the hungry for food,
438
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,640
and the rich for excess,
439
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,439
your chosen profession is
perfectly secure,
440
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,800
I can assure you."
441
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,839
And from time to time,
you suddenly realised that this,
442
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,759
beneath this relaxed,
charming exterior,
443
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,999
there was an interior which was
bubbling with raw emotion,
444
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,240
with unhappiness,
with... with rage, even.
445
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,239
So you knew the names of British
agents all over the world.
446
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,040
I signed a blank cheque.
The name of the payee was secret.
447
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,439
Who knew then? Who kept the notes?
448
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,919
Special dispatch, they added
the name and mailed the cheque.
449
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,240
So you just provided a signature.
A false signature.
450
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,040
After 18 years in the service,
my sole contribution.
451
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,559
Shall we continue indoors?
Want to write it down, don't you?
452
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,120
Don't know what you're looking for.
Scratching around in the dust.
453
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,119
I think one of the things about him
is that he was an actor.
454
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,359
I think he could have been
a very successful actor
455
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,560
had he chosen to take that path
and he took on roles.
456
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,959
I mean, as a spy,
as most people know,
457
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,119
he worked for, first of all,
458
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,959
for British intelligence as
a civilian, but then later on,
459
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,959
joined MI5 and then
transferred to MI6.
460
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,239
He did have these different
identities,
461
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,839
and he did have
different identities, for example,
462
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,279
as loyal husband
but as serial adulterer,
463
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,200
as affectionate friend
464
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,679
and as betrayer.
He spied on his friends.
465
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,639
As a devoted father,
466
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,840
but someone
who leaves his children behind.
467
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,079
In John Le Carre's novel
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy,
468
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,039
and you also see this too
in the television version
469
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,479
and in the film version,
470
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,959
there is a close approach between
the mechanisms of
471
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,719
the classic espionage novel,
472
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,919
story, and those of the classic
detective story.
473
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,879
But it also functions
as detective fiction.
474
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,399
As in fact, a classic piece
of detective fiction,
475
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,639
where the investigator, Smiley,
George Smiley,
476
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,439
in this case,
is not looking for a murderer,
477
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,000
though there is murder within this
world, he's looking for a mole.
478
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,639
David was fascinated by Kim Philby
and wrote a very interesting piece
479
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,359
about Philby, when Philby's memoirs
were published,
480
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,599
and always thought that he
recognised some kind of bond
481
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,359
with Philby, that he could have been
Philby himself.
482
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,439
When Philby defected, you know,
there was an attempt to minimise
483
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,639
his role and to suggest
that he hadn't been very important.
484
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,679
And it was only considerably later
485
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,879
that it was revealed that
he really had been at the top level
486
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,240
and could have risen
to the very top itself.
487
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,680
Alleline.
488
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,719
Tinker.
489
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,720
N.
490
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840
Tailor.
491
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,360
Bland.
492
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,959
Soldier.
493
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,960
Esterhase.
494
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,200
Poor man.
495
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,240
'Obscurity was his nature
as well as his profession.
496
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,039
The byways of espionage
are not populated
497
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,000
by the brash and colourful
adventurers of fiction.
498
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,199
A man who, like Smiley,
499
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,799
has lived and worked for years
among his country's enemies
500
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,160
learns only one prayer,
501
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,960
that he may never, never be noticed.'
502
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,319
I think one of the things
about David's great success
503
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,239
is it does conceal the nature
of his art.
504
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,799
I think because his book sold
so many copies
505
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,919
and they were made into
big feature films,
506
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,599
people assumed that he was a genre
writer, perhaps a pulp writer.
507
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,359
I think he's better than that.
I think he's a major writer.
508
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,199
So if we think of John le Carre
as a central example,
509
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,679
his mother left the family
510
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,159
when he was five years old,
511
00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:00,079
that I think left a permanent mark
on his nature, on his imagination,
512
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,079
his sense of the world.
513
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,679
He was on poor terms
with his father,
514
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,639
so it really was a difficult
relationship
515
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:17,879
and le Carre's persistent
preoccupation with betrayal,
516
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,519
abandonment and isolation
517
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,559
in difficult circumstances,
518
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,439
does, I think,
bear a very close relation
519
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,439
with those experiences.
As is so often the case
520
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,359
with those who have been abandoned,
521
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,399
in his later life,
522
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,280
he himself turned into someone
who abandoned others.
523
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,559
'Though John le Carre did not go to
his father's funeral,
524
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,720
he nevertheless paid for it.'
525
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,599
He doesn't trust human relations.
526
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,400
He's cynical.
He's often really quite bitter.
527
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,440
'John le Carre's life is at
the heart of his narrative.
528
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,559
The sheer human power
at le Carre's disposal
529
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,399
evokes the desperate insecurity
of individuals
530
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,080
caught up in in-state secrets.
531
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,159
"Today, I don't remember feeling
any affection in childhood
532
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,199
except for my elder brother,
533
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,839
who for a time was my only parent."'
534
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,479
If there remains one great conundrum
in my life, it is my father.
535
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,399
Who seems to me to inspire also
some of the worst or best characters
536
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,239
in me. He had a wonderful brain,
537
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:37,959
everybody who worked for him
was in awe of his intellect,
538
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,559
but if there was a bent way of doing
something, he took it.
539
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,399
Wonderful, wonderful, rich vein of
material and very painful.
540
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,919
He had done quite a lot of jail
541
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,319
and he spent some years of his life
on the run,
542
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,880
in late middle age, so it was
a mess, just a bloody mess.
543
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,639
But, surviving it, it was also
a privilege to be part of it
544
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,839
in some strange way, it taught you
a lot about life,
545
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,879
lowered your expectations,
raised them in other ways.
546
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,759
'It was Ronnie who did the hugging,
never Olive.
547
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,719
She was the mother who had no smell,
548
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:20,959
whereas Ronnie smelt of fine cigars
and pear-droppy hair oil
549
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,040
from Taylor of Old Bond Street,
the court hairdressers.
550
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,119
John le Carre evokes the presence
of his father,
551
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,799
the effect of a sometimes
cruel presence,
552
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,159
of surviving in a world where he was
abandoned by his mother
553
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,079
but remained fond and admiring
of the father
554
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,879
who sometimes seemed to love him -
yet beat him.
555
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:49,199
"Ronnie's violence was not news to me
because he'd made a habit of
556
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,200
beating up his second wife as well."
557
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,079
Walter Isaacson in his review of
le Carre's memoir The Pigeon Tunnel
558
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,039
captures the poignant essence
559
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,039
of such haunting
by quoting Barack Obama.
560
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,199
"Someone once said that every man is
trying to either live up to
561
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,159
his father's expectations or make up
for his father's mistakes."
562
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,759
Richard Nixon put it more succinctly.
563
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,280
"I was born in a house
my father built."
564
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,999
Le Carre remembers his father
gambling in Monte Carlo.
565
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,599
Beneath the lawn of the sporting club
were small tunnels
566
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,119
from which trapped pigeons were
ejected over the sea as targets.
567
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,639
The ones that survived returned to
the place of their birth
568
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200
where the same traps awaited them.'
569
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,119
There's hundreds of policeman in
the garden, thousands of them.
570
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,120
I saw them through the window.
571
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:50,720
What are you doing?
572
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,200
What are you doing?
What are you doing?!
573
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,119
I don't think you can understand
John le Carre without understanding
574
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,639
the childhood of David Cornwall.
575
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,079
David's father was a serial con man
576
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,959
who spent two terms in prison
577
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,639
and who cheated people out of large
sums of money.
578
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,119
David's mother
had left the family home.
579
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,199
She left in the middle of the night
without saying goodbye to her sons
580
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,879
when David was only five years old.
581
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,479
As a little boy, he used to go up to
women who arrived at the house,
582
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,679
and quite a number of women
did arrive at the house,
583
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,159
because his father, Ronnie,
Ronnie Cornwall was, um,
584
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,199
had many, many girlfriends.
585
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,839
David would sidle up to these women
and say, "Are you my mother?"
586
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,879
He learned to spy, because no one
told him what was going on.
587
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,999
When his father
was taken off to prison,
588
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,159
no one explained
where his father was.
589
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,319
No one explained where his mother
was, these things just happened.
590
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,639
He wanted to have
a normal family life.
591
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,119
He wanted to be a good father
to his children
592
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,559
and he used this curious expression.
He said, "I am the bridge that
593
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,160
my children must walk across in
order to have normal lives."
594
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,079
We know from recent biographical
research
595
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,519
that during his second marriage,
596
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,880
he had, as a minimum, 11 affairs.
597
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,319
John le Carre's interpretation of
the world of espionage
598
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,439
is very personal and it is in part
599
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,839
a reaction against what he thought
600
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,479
was a dangerous falsification
of the world of espionage,
601
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,839
really through the power
of the image
602
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,879
of James Bond.
603
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,119
So in novel after novel,
604
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,119
you see him challenging
that glamorisation
605
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,799
and you certainly see it in
The Spy Who Came in from the Cold,
606
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,360
which was his breakthrough novel.
607
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,520
Come, come.
608
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,280
Jump, Alec! Jump, man!
609
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,320
Jump, man!
610
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,439
In both the book and the film
the way in which those operatives
611
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,159
out in the field are exposed
to injury or death.
612
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:55,719
You see that particularly in
the devastating final sequence
613
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,519
in the film, that is not something
that you would witness
614
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,639
in a Bond film.
615
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,159
David was working as...
616
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,639
...his cover role was
working as a second secretary
617
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,119
in the British Embassy in Bonn.
618
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,519
But The Spy Who Came in
from the Cold
619
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,839
just hit a nerve
at the right moment.
620
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,559
It was the moment
when the Berlin Wall went up,
621
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,039
when Kennedy came to Berlin,
622
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,399
when suddenly that seemed the centre
of the world.
623
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,399
I think also he is the writer
624
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,519
about the post colonial experience,
625
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,239
about Britain
trying to come to terms
626
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:56,959
with its much diminished role. After
The Spy Who Came in from the Cold,
627
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,199
he wrote a book called
The Looking Glass War.
628
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,279
It upset a lot of people
in the intelligence world,
629
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,359
because it made them appear
incompetent,
630
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,959
and that was the thing
that they didn't like.
631
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,120
Perhaps, if you're looking
at SIS through the le Carre prism,
632
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,959
a lot of le Carre's post Cold War
writing is often about
633
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,999
how the Secret Intelligence Service
are doing things
634
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,319
that are not ethically good.
635
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,879
So for example, the backdrop to
The Constant Gardener is
636
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,839
the SIS are,
along with the British government,
637
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,160
supporting big pharma
in post colonial Africa.
638
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:44,479
"My continent, Africa, is staggering
under the weight of not one,
639
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,399
but three plagues. Yet still the
governments of the USA and Europe,
640
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,999
at the behest of
the pharmaceutical companies
641
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,639
that seem to control them, drag
their feet and continue to give us
642
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,959
endless reasons why we should buy
your branded drugs
643
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:02,639
at five, ten, 20 times the price."
644
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,279
Sweetheart, don't bother to see us
off, it could be ages.
645
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,280
OK, well, if you're sure.
Mwah!
646
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,359
'John le Carre's close friend
Yvette Pierpaoli
647
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,160
was a French humanitarian who lived
in Cambodia and throughout the world.
648
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,239
He dedicated his novel
The Constant Gardener to her
649
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:25,720
and based his main character,
Tessa Quale, upon her.
650
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,479
"Yvette, like almost no one else,
had opened my eyes
651
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,439
to constructive compassion,
652
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,159
to putting your money and your life
where your heart was
653
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,480
and I was not alone in this."'
654
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,599
When you look at the backdrop to
some other le Carre novels,
655
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,879
SIS are involved and complicit
in illegal arms trafficking.
656
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,959
So in the story of
The Night Manager,
657
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:55,039
SIS is an organisation that
is breaching arms embargoes
658
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,159
and supporting international
military trade.
659
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,919
So there's a variance here between
popular perceptions and reality.
660
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,439
What led you to believe that
British arms are being exported
661
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,399
under the counter,
through trade pass?
662
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,519
I was shown fake MOD end user
certificates
663
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,440
for seven different arms companies,
UK and US.
664
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,840
Do you mean these?
665
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,079
Yes.
666
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,439
Those are genuine MOD export
certificates for Bulgaria and Italy.
667
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,999
That's not true.
668
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,239
I have signed letters from both
Italian and Bulgarian governments
669
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,839
confirming the sales.
This is a cover-up.
670
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,520
Angela, are you accusing me
of lying?
671
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,000
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