All language subtitles for Spymasters.The.Great.Spy.Writers.S01E02.Alistair.Maclean.To.John.Le.Carre.1080p.NOW.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-RAWR_track3_[eng]

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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,759 Whaddya know? 2 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,159 'World War II provided the setting for many novels and films 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,160 that appeared after the war.' 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,319 Come on. Come on. 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,359 'They were significant as a means of exploring commercially 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,359 some of the struggles that lay behind the battlefields 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,399 of Europe and beyond. The British war movies made of these novels 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,679 achieved great success in the 1970s and 1980s. 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,639 "Formulaic" in Roger Ebert's account, 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,480 they nevertheless attracted large and appreciative audiences.' 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,200 Halt! Halt! 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,000 Halt! 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,279 'These books and films include Alistair MacLean, 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,320 who combines both the Second World War and the Cold War. 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,999 His key espionage novel is Where Eagles Dare, 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,119 exploring themes of patriotism, 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,480 courage and the cost of espionage.' 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,639 Broadsword calling Danny Boy, 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,520 Broadsword calling Danny boy, over. 20 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,280 "Broadsword calling Danny Boy, Broadsword calling Danny boy, over. 21 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,240 Broadsword, sir. 22 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,119 Danny Boy calling Broadsword, come in Broadsword, over. 23 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,959 MacPherson murdered, Thomas Christiansen and Berkeley captured. 24 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,359 I'm affecting entrance within the hour. 25 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,920 "Please have transport standing by, over." 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,479 Pull out now, Broadsword, save yourselves, over. 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,559 You must be joking, over and out. 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,560 That is an order Broadsword, over. 29 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,119 Broadsword. Broadsword! 30 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,280 'His theme of the secret traitor is seen again in the Guns of Navarone. 31 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,520 And in all Maclean's espionage novels, it features prominently. 32 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,319 Ken Follett's Eye of the Needle, tells of the thwarted plans of 33 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,520 a ruthless Nazi spy whose downfall is brought about by his falling in love. 34 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,279 The wind howled against the windows as the storm intensified. 35 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,199 In the dim light of the study the radio crackled to life, 36 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,359 a voice steady but urgent, 37 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800 spoke of an impending invasion. 38 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,199 The war was coming closer and for the first time 39 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,920 Faber realised just how much was riding on him. 40 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,759 The Nazis needed him to get a message through, 41 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,160 the allies needed him to fail. 42 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,919 But in the end it would be his own choice, 43 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:10,520 his own survival that would determine the course of the war 44 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,360 and the stakes had never been higher. 45 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,759 Jack Higgins's The Eagle Has Landed, published in 1975, 46 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,720 was made into a film starring Michael Caine and Donald Sutherland in 1976.' 47 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,559 By the way, have you found out who Stalin is yet? 48 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,559 Of course I have. 49 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,559 Why? Because I am hoping it is not him. 50 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,959 It isn't. 51 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,960 I want him buried right away. 52 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,039 'The causes of the Cold War, or, more importantly, 53 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,159 who caused the Cold War, the subject of continuing controversy, 54 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,520 was it the Americans, or was it the Russians? 55 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,360 Espionage was not really something exclusive, and clandestine, 56 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,160 it was actually the currency of the Cold War. 57 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,200 Spies were the poor, bloody infantry of the Cold War. 58 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,759 For the West, notwithstanding the debate, 59 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,040 the Truman Doctrine of 1947 was a prime cause. 60 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,639 The Truman Doctrine was designed to prevent the spread 61 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,719 of aggressive communism in Europe. 62 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,479 It was created from the long telegram 63 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,320 by American diplomat George Kennan in 1946. 64 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,239 Kennan wrote that the battle between these two centres 65 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,319 for command of world economy will decide the fate of capitalism 66 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,520 and of communism in the entire world. 67 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,599 George Kennan argued for a form of warfare through espionage, 68 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,599 and in particular through adversarial spying. 69 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,199 The atmosphere of this world of partition and division and conflict 70 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,279 is evoked in Carol Reed's film of Graham Greene's novella 71 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:04,639 The Third Man.' 72 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,639 Who are you looking for now? 73 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,640 Stop, just please don't. 74 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,200 Silly looking bunch. 75 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,119 Spies moved centre stage during the Cold War, 76 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:22,679 where everything was concealed, where those hostilities 77 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:28,559 between nations and ideologies moved underground 78 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,959 and the period of the Cold War 79 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,879 was where the development of spy fiction, 80 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,359 spy films begins, I think, 81 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,079 to exhibit a certain kind of coherence. 82 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,520 'From the anarchist of Tsarist Russia, 83 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,800 to the IRA of 1916. 84 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:00,280 From the Ergun and the Stern Gang 85 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,439 to the EOKA in Cyprus, 86 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,999 from the Baader-Meinhof Group in Germany, the CCC in Belgium, 87 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,039 the Action Direct in France, the Red Brigades in Italy, 88 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,879 the Red Army Faction again in Germany, 89 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,120 the Rengo Sekigun in Japan, 90 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,679 through to the Shining Path in Peru, 91 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,719 to the modern IRA in Ulster... 92 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,799 ...or the ETA in Spain, 93 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,439 terrorism came from the minds of the comfortably raised, 94 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,319 well educated, middle-class theorists 95 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,559 with a truly staggering personal vanity 96 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,440 and a developed taste for self-indulgence.' 97 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,079 Frederick Forsyth was among that group of writers 98 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,439 who had some direct experience of the world of espionage 99 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,799 and that feeds in to his fiction. 100 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,359 There is a sense of felt detail 101 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,879 in the intricacies of his plots, 102 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,160 that arise from experiences that he had had. 103 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,719 'The man in the grey suit walked into the hotel lobby, calm and unhurried. 104 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,640 He had done this a thousand times before. 105 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,799 He wasn't just any assassin, he was a ghost, a shadow in the night. 106 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,400 He didn't have a name, only a number. 107 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,479 His past was a blank slate, 108 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,719 erased for his own safety. 109 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,440 His future? A single mission. To kill a man. 110 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,359 He'd been trained for this, honed like a blade, 111 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,039 and now, the time had come. 112 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,520 As he approached the desk to check in, the bellboy didn't look up. 113 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,200 He didn't need to. 114 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,719 The Jackal was already a ghost in his mind. 115 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,400 There would be no trace left, no sign of his passing.' 116 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,879 If we take The Odessa File as an example, 117 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,719 this is a novel that describes the relentless pursuit 118 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,559 of an SS officer 119 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,560 after the end of the war by a young German. 120 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,319 It turns out that this officer has been central to the development 121 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,319 of the Odessa Organisation, 122 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,799 those who had not abandoned Nazi ideology 123 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:45,680 and were working for the overthrow of the State of Israel. 124 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,639 The Odessa Organisation was described in such detail 125 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,919 that many readers thought 126 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,319 that Forsyth was talking about something that had 127 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,079 historical existence, that it was real. 128 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,119 So the organisation is dismantled, but the villain escapes. 129 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,759 There's an interesting contrast between that escape 130 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,879 and what happens in the film version. 131 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:16,159 In the film version, there is a dramatic confrontation between 132 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,999 Miller and the villain Roschmann, at the end of the film, 133 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,159 and the villain is shot dead. 134 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,279 The SS officer does not escape 135 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,200 and does not survive. 136 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,119 I didn't do it. I couldn't even shoot straight. 137 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,399 If you kill me, you'd be killing - the wrong man. - You're disgusting. 138 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,519 But I tell you, it was Kurt Krause. 139 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,999 You can tell that to the German people, Roschmann. 140 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,959 I will, I will tell them. 141 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,879 You're not even worth a bullet. 142 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,159 I even have letters to prove what I say. 143 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,639 A woman wrote to me from New York. 144 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,839 I was only 11 months there in charge. There was not one hanging 145 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,879 or shooting during that time, I was really considered a joke! 146 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:01,719 So both book and film are raising difficult moral questions 147 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,479 about what it means to forgive or to forget betrayal 148 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,120 in a historical perspective. 149 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,840 'To understand everything is to forgive everything. 150 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,840 When one can understand the people, 151 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,520 their gullibility and their fear, their greed and their lust for power, 152 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,880 their ignorance and their docility to the man who shouts the loudest, 153 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,040 one can forgive. 154 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,320 Yes, one can forgive even what they did, 155 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,240 but one can never forget.' 156 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,559 Whether we can forgive, whether we can forget, 157 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:00,399 but they do so in a different cultural context. 158 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,039 And I think you see that repeatedly 159 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,800 in film versions of spy stories. 160 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,000 'It is cold at 6:40 in the morning on a March day in Paris, 161 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,599 and seems even colder 162 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,080 when a man is about to be executed by firing squad.' 163 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,519 Robert Harris's Fatherland, made into a film in 1994, 164 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,319 is set in post-war Europe and imagines what the consequences 165 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,719 of a Nazi victory might have been. 166 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,560 It was an influential example of alternative history. 167 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,639 The room was oppressive, 168 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,320 the air thick with the smell of old paper and dust. 169 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,599 Xavier March stared at the files in front of him, 170 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,680 chilling realisation dawning on him with each page he turned, 171 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,639 the world was not what he'd thought it was. 172 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,919 History had been rewritten, 173 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,800 and now it was up to him to uncover the truth. 174 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,080 As a member of the Nazi Party, March had always followed orders, 175 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,879 but now, as he dug deeper, 176 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,999 he realised that the very foundation of his beliefs 177 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,480 were built on lies. 178 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,039 The Cold War shifted the focus of spy fiction 179 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,439 from resistance to Nazi Germany, 180 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,599 to the conflict between communist powers - primarily the Soviet Union - 181 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,360 and the capitalist West in the decades following World War II. 182 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,439 Anthony Horowitz's long-running television series Foyle's War, 183 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,959 which began with episodes featuring Christopher Foyle 184 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,559 as a high-minded police detective, 185 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:16,399 uncovering various crimes during World War II, 186 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,759 ends with a much darker series of plots, 187 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,959 based on his involvement with ethically questionable MI5 operations 188 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,399 after the end of the war. 189 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,159 It's a telling illustration of a cultural shift.' 190 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,679 If there was a traitor in SOE... SOE is finished, disbanded. 191 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,159 The traitor could have moved on, 192 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,159 could be in intelligence, could be in government. 193 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,719 Sir Ian Woodhead is my counterpart at MI6, 194 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,639 Eric Caplin is a member of the Gen 75 Committee, 195 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,880 it is inconceivable that either of them could have divided loyalties. 196 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,959 'Graham Greene's Catholicism led to him consistently interpreting... 197 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,240 ...international affairs within an ethical framework. 198 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,680 Every novelist has something in common with a spy.' 199 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,679 White Hart Hotel. 200 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,680 Yes, Colonel White is staying here. 201 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,879 I'm afraid he's fast asleep at this time, sir. 202 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,440 Very good. I will. 203 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,320 'He watches.' 204 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,720 White here. You're through, sir. 205 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,679 Oh, hello, David. 206 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,119 This is a hell of a time to ring up. I'm sorry, sir, but it's urgent. 207 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,519 'He overhears.' 208 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,559 You're going to be inspected on Friday by 209 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,359 a very important personage, about as important as anybody can be 210 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,359 in this country. 211 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,000 'He seeks motives and analyses character.' 212 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,199 'His The Quiet American, written in 1955, 213 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,400 had film versions in 1958 and 2002. 214 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,999 They address American policy in Indochina, 215 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,279 rather than the communist block, 216 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,959 and predict the later destructive tangles 217 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,200 of American involvement in Vietnam.' 218 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,239 It's not like you can really help - these people. - You have a gun, 219 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,240 either of you? No. 220 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,279 They shall attack again tonight. 221 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,760 You don't want to be taken alive, believe me. 222 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,360 Shoot yourselves. - Thank you. - Thanks. 223 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000 'It was a dangerous belief, 224 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,120 and it would be his undoing. 225 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,400 He didn't understand the complexities of the world, 226 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,520 nor the true cost of his interference. 227 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,839 I had tried to warn him, 228 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,320 but like all the others, he wouldn't listen. 229 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,960 He thought he could control things, 230 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,160 but the world didn't work that way. 231 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,640 In the end, he would learn the hard way, 232 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,960 if he lived to learn it at all. 233 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,839 Graham Greene's introduction to Kim Philby's memoirs 234 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,360 was regarded as worse than equivocal by some. 235 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,839 No place here for the importance of the defence of the realm, 236 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,239 an unanswered question that runs through the history of spies 237 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,559 and spy masters alike, is heard also in E M Forster's comment, 238 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,839 "If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, 239 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,360 I hope I should have the guts to betray my country."' 240 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,240 Old man, you never should've gone to the police, you know? 241 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,240 You oughta leave this thing alone. 242 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,319 Have you ever seen any of your victims? 243 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,720 You know, I never feel comfortable on these sort of things. 244 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,160 Victims, they can be melodramatic. 245 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,759 Look down there. 246 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,319 Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots 247 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,320 stopped moving forever? 248 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,839 If I offered you £20,000 for every dot that stopped, 249 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,119 would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money? 250 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:25,199 Or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spend, 251 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,239 free of income tax, you know? 252 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,879 Free of income tax. Well, you can save money now. 253 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,680 Lot of good your money'll do you in - jail. - That jail's in another zone. 254 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,440 There's no proof against me. Besides you. 255 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:43,919 'Our Man in Havana, set in Cuba, 256 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,559 mocks some of the absurdities of MI6, 257 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,320 absurdities that Greene had experienced personally. 258 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,959 The film version in 1959, though set as a comedy, 259 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,639 had serious undertones.' 260 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,999 Perhaps they're using us as bait. Of course, if the bait's no good, 261 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,000 you throw it away. 262 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,639 'The film of The Third Man, caught in its visual styling 263 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,879 of a shadowy Vienna, 264 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,160 the threat and menace of the pervasive atmosphere of the Cold War. 265 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,039 The Third Man was a masterpiece 266 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,759 based on a screenplay by Graham Greene, 267 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,479 directed by Carol Reed, 268 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,679 shot by cinematographer Robert Krasker, 269 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,279 and underlain by the zither music of Anton Karas, 270 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,799 a surprise number one hit in 1950 271 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,080 and was on the Billboard chart for 11 weeks in the USA. 272 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,799 We had a day and a night unit. 273 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,679 We worked from 8pm until 5am, 274 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,799 then went to bed, got up at 10am, worked with the day unit until four, 275 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,119 and then went back to bed until eight. 276 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:04,600 It's a bit of a rush, but it's better to rush than not get it all.' 277 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,280 When people think of the Cold War, 278 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,560 they think of it as a struggle between East and West. 279 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,839 What wave after wave of declassification 280 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,559 over the last ten to 20 years 281 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,519 has really shown, is that there was a global Cold War going on. 282 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,239 When we think of the Cold War, we think of the, you know, 283 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,119 the snowy windswept streets of Berlin and Vienna and Prague, 284 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:37,919 but actually the clandestine Caribbean, Africa, Latin America. 285 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,359 These were all places that saw a lot of intelligence activity. 286 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,919 The Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, 287 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,919 was the most dangerous moment in British history 288 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,759 and in world history, but because we're a small offshore island, 289 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,559 if nuclear warfare had broken out, 290 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,479 we would by now simply be a hole in the North Sea... 291 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,439 ...whereas there would be bits of the United States 292 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,440 and bits of Russia surviving. 293 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,519 Acting, therefore, in the defence of our own security 294 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,200 and of the entire Western Hemisphere, 295 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,239 and under the authority entrusted to me by the Constitution, 296 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,239 as endorsed by the resolution of the Congress, 297 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,159 I have directed that the following initial steps be taken immediately. 298 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,439 All ships of any kind bound for Cuba, from whatever nation or port, 299 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,320 were they found to contain cargos of offensive weapons be turned back. 300 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,199 In terms of an intelligence collection, 301 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,839 I think the biggest single success of Stalin's Russia 302 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,600 was getting the secrets of the atomic bomb. 303 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,959 The biggest British intelligence failure that we know about 304 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,239 in the 21st century, is without doubt the belief that 305 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,639 Saddam Hussein in Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, 306 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,959 which was a terrible, but I think understandable error. 307 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,960 It is absolutely essential 308 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,999 that we ensure that Saddam Hussein 309 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,519 cannot go back to developing weapons of mass destruction, 310 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,599 weapons of nuclear, chemical, biological warfare. 311 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,439 What was he saying in public? 312 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,559 We don't have any weapons of mass destruction. 313 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,199 What was he saying in private? Of course we have weapons 314 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,639 of mass destruction. But why was he saying that? 315 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,919 Not because it was true, but he knew that if he told it to his advisors, 316 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,719 it would get through to Iran. 317 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,119 What about the Israelis? 318 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,879 He was afraid the Israelis might attack him, 319 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,959 but he thought they would be deterred if they thought he had 320 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,759 weapons of mass destruction. So there we are. 321 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,119 It was an understandable, but nonetheless a humiliating failure 322 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:52,160 on the part of British intelligence. 323 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,519 'But the upfront reason is that he was reclaiming 324 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,199 rightful Iraqi territory. 325 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,399 Look, it happens all over the world. 326 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,439 India took Goa, China took Tibet, 327 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:11,439 Indonesia has taken East Timor, Argentina tried for the Falklands. 328 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,600 Each time the claim is retaking a chunk of rightful territory. 329 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,960 It's very popular with the home crowd, you know."' 330 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,199 Knowing about one's successes and failures is quite fundamental 331 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,239 for any intelligence and security service, 332 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,479 and I think it's also important for people to know, 333 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,519 because based on that, they can judge the capability 334 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,359 of their governments and their government spies. 335 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,759 When we look at 20th-century history, 336 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,799 there's quite a lot of intelligence failures 337 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,919 that governments have been learning from. 338 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,679 One of them was the failure to see the fall of the Shah of Iran 339 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,679 in 1979. That was a big one. 340 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,600 Then it was also the failure to see the fall of the Soviet Union. 341 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,959 In some ways an intelligence failure was also not really seeing that 342 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,679 the Arab Spring will kick off in 2011. 343 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,439 And then there's other failures that have occurred, 344 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,799 such as the invasion of the Falkland Islands. 345 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,159 But also other types of failures, analytical failures, for instance, 346 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,919 in the run-up to the Iraq War. 347 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,439 There was clearly a failure in the West to understand 348 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,599 that Saddam Hussein did not have the WMD capability 349 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,160 that many Western services, not all, but many, did think he have. 350 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,999 'The CIA, in accounts like Hugo Wilford's 351 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,559 The CIA: An Imperial History, 352 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,319 is described as a quasi imperial organisation, 353 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,439 following the policies of the empires of Britain and France, 354 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,599 engaging in everything from regime change to having thoroughly mistaken 355 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,799 the assessment of many political situations, 356 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,479 not least that of the intentions of Saddam Hussein, 357 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,279 though they were not alone in that. 358 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,759 Steve Coll in his book The Achilles Trap, 359 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,599 additionally writes, 360 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,319 "Like many people in the Middle East and elsewhere, 361 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,200 Saddam thought of the CIA as all-knowing. 362 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:14,159 Saddam Hussein assumed that the US was fully aware of his plans 363 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,279 to invade Kuwait. He mistook President Bush's lack of objection 364 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,279 for permission." 365 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,359 Cole further writes, "Years later while imprisoned 366 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:28,159 Saddam confronted a CIA officer about this." 367 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,839 "If you didn't want me to go in," 368 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:35,239 the officer recalls Saddam asking, "why didn't you tell me?"' 369 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,839 When it comes to thinking about the war on terror, 370 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,879 and it comes to thinking about the 911, 371 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,119 what I'll call the 911 wars, the period after September 2001 372 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:48,879 where you see Western intervention across the globe, 373 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,919 these are stories, 374 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,879 framing stories, that perhaps offer 375 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,880 a more conflicted, ethical dimension. 376 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,479 Whereas in the Cold War, MI6 is, 377 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,559 you know, often for individuals on the side of the good guys. 378 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,799 So there is clear good guys, bad guys element to framing here. 379 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,839 When you get to the post 911 wars, there is, in the real world, 380 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,639 this morally ambiguous area when it comes to real world episodes 381 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,559 such as hostile interrogation, rendition. 382 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:29,639 The Iraq War creates this politically divisive period 383 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,319 of British political history, 384 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,880 where there are those for the conflict and those against. 385 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,839 It's really interesting to see how this understanding of 386 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,519 intelligence being a secret business has changed 387 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,840 in the past 20 years or so. 388 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,919 When you think of the way the Iraq war was sort of built on 389 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,119 this amount of classified information 390 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,439 and justified on very secret information, 391 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,720 which were, of course, a lie. 392 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,279 But then you have the events leading up to this, 393 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,839 Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 394 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,759 where you have an extraordinary amount of information 395 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,799 being declassified by President Biden, 396 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,439 in order to deter Russia's action, 397 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,559 and it says a lot about this sort of tension of how much information 398 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,359 should remain classified, 399 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,719 because secrecy is about temporality. 400 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,399 Having a secret, having a state secret is a question of time, 401 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,960 because this is what gives you the strategic advantage. 402 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,599 John le Carre was the most successful spy writer 403 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,599 and indeed author of books which have also been the best spy films 404 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,519 of the last 50 years. 405 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,159 One of the unusual things about his novels, 406 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,399 derived from the fact that he was the only example I can think of, 407 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,599 of a major spy novelist, 408 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,959 who worked at different times for both MI5, 409 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,999 the British security service, 410 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,640 and MI6, the Foreign Intelligence Service. 411 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,040 'John le Carre redefined the literary ambitions of the genre.' 412 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,639 I was immediately charmed by him. 413 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,039 I mean, he was the most delightful company. 414 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,679 He rapidly became to me, not John le Carre, 415 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,399 as he's, as he had been up until that point, 416 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,400 but David Cornwell, his real name. 417 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,479 'He had lived through all these lies, these betrayals, 418 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,560 and yet there was nothing but a kind of tired cynicism left. 419 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,639 He had forgotten how to be shocked, 420 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,079 how to be outraged. 421 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,640 The game was the game and in the end, it would swallow them all. 422 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,919 He had been a soldier once, fighting in a war he didn't believe in 423 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,639 and now he was a spy, 424 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,160 trying to fight a battle no one had ever explained.' 425 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,279 But what does he do in his novels? 426 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,679 He amalgamates MI5 and MI6 427 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,879 into a single British Intelligence Service, 428 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,960 which he calls The Circus. 429 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,440 '"Why spy? 430 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,040 For as long as rogues become leaders we shall spy. 431 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,399 For as long as there are bullies and liars and madmen in the world, 432 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,600 we shall spy. 433 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,360 For as long as nations compete, and politicians deceive, 434 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,239 tyrants launch conquest 435 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,280 and consumers need resources, 436 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,960 and the homeless look for land, 437 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,880 and the hungry for food, 438 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,640 and the rich for excess, 439 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,439 your chosen profession is perfectly secure, 440 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,800 I can assure you." 441 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,839 And from time to time, you suddenly realised that this, 442 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,759 beneath this relaxed, charming exterior, 443 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,999 there was an interior which was bubbling with raw emotion, 444 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,240 with unhappiness, with... with rage, even. 445 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,239 So you knew the names of British agents all over the world. 446 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,040 I signed a blank cheque. The name of the payee was secret. 447 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,439 Who knew then? Who kept the notes? 448 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,919 Special dispatch, they added the name and mailed the cheque. 449 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,240 So you just provided a signature. A false signature. 450 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,040 After 18 years in the service, my sole contribution. 451 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,559 Shall we continue indoors? Want to write it down, don't you? 452 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,120 Don't know what you're looking for. Scratching around in the dust. 453 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,119 I think one of the things about him is that he was an actor. 454 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,359 I think he could have been a very successful actor 455 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,560 had he chosen to take that path and he took on roles. 456 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,959 I mean, as a spy, as most people know, 457 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,119 he worked for, first of all, 458 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,959 for British intelligence as a civilian, but then later on, 459 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,959 joined MI5 and then transferred to MI6. 460 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,239 He did have these different identities, 461 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,839 and he did have different identities, for example, 462 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,279 as loyal husband but as serial adulterer, 463 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,200 as affectionate friend 464 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,679 and as betrayer. He spied on his friends. 465 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,639 As a devoted father, 466 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,840 but someone who leaves his children behind. 467 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,079 In John Le Carre's novel Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, 468 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,039 and you also see this too in the television version 469 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,479 and in the film version, 470 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,959 there is a close approach between the mechanisms of 471 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,719 the classic espionage novel, 472 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,919 story, and those of the classic detective story. 473 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,879 But it also functions as detective fiction. 474 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,399 As in fact, a classic piece of detective fiction, 475 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,639 where the investigator, Smiley, George Smiley, 476 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,439 in this case, is not looking for a murderer, 477 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,000 though there is murder within this world, he's looking for a mole. 478 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,639 David was fascinated by Kim Philby and wrote a very interesting piece 479 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,359 about Philby, when Philby's memoirs were published, 480 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,599 and always thought that he recognised some kind of bond 481 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,359 with Philby, that he could have been Philby himself. 482 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,439 When Philby defected, you know, there was an attempt to minimise 483 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,639 his role and to suggest that he hadn't been very important. 484 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,679 And it was only considerably later 485 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,879 that it was revealed that he really had been at the top level 486 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,240 and could have risen to the very top itself. 487 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,680 Alleline. 488 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,719 Tinker. 489 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,720 N. 490 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840 Tailor. 491 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,360 Bland. 492 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,959 Soldier. 493 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,960 Esterhase. 494 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,200 Poor man. 495 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,240 'Obscurity was his nature as well as his profession. 496 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,039 The byways of espionage are not populated 497 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,000 by the brash and colourful adventurers of fiction. 498 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,199 A man who, like Smiley, 499 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,799 has lived and worked for years among his country's enemies 500 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,160 learns only one prayer, 501 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,960 that he may never, never be noticed.' 502 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,319 I think one of the things about David's great success 503 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,239 is it does conceal the nature of his art. 504 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,799 I think because his book sold so many copies 505 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,919 and they were made into big feature films, 506 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,599 people assumed that he was a genre writer, perhaps a pulp writer. 507 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,359 I think he's better than that. I think he's a major writer. 508 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,199 So if we think of John le Carre as a central example, 509 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,679 his mother left the family 510 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,159 when he was five years old, 511 00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:00,079 that I think left a permanent mark on his nature, on his imagination, 512 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,079 his sense of the world. 513 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,679 He was on poor terms with his father, 514 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,639 so it really was a difficult relationship 515 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:17,879 and le Carre's persistent preoccupation with betrayal, 516 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,519 abandonment and isolation 517 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,559 in difficult circumstances, 518 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,439 does, I think, bear a very close relation 519 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,439 with those experiences. As is so often the case 520 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,359 with those who have been abandoned, 521 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,399 in his later life, 522 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,280 he himself turned into someone who abandoned others. 523 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,559 'Though John le Carre did not go to his father's funeral, 524 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,720 he nevertheless paid for it.' 525 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,599 He doesn't trust human relations. 526 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,400 He's cynical. He's often really quite bitter. 527 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,440 'John le Carre's life is at the heart of his narrative. 528 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,559 The sheer human power at le Carre's disposal 529 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,399 evokes the desperate insecurity of individuals 530 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,080 caught up in in-state secrets. 531 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,159 "Today, I don't remember feeling any affection in childhood 532 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,199 except for my elder brother, 533 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,839 who for a time was my only parent."' 534 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,479 If there remains one great conundrum in my life, it is my father. 535 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,399 Who seems to me to inspire also some of the worst or best characters 536 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,239 in me. He had a wonderful brain, 537 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:37,959 everybody who worked for him was in awe of his intellect, 538 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,559 but if there was a bent way of doing something, he took it. 539 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,399 Wonderful, wonderful, rich vein of material and very painful. 540 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,919 He had done quite a lot of jail 541 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,319 and he spent some years of his life on the run, 542 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,880 in late middle age, so it was a mess, just a bloody mess. 543 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,639 But, surviving it, it was also a privilege to be part of it 544 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,839 in some strange way, it taught you a lot about life, 545 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,879 lowered your expectations, raised them in other ways. 546 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,759 'It was Ronnie who did the hugging, never Olive. 547 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,719 She was the mother who had no smell, 548 00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:20,959 whereas Ronnie smelt of fine cigars and pear-droppy hair oil 549 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,040 from Taylor of Old Bond Street, the court hairdressers. 550 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,119 John le Carre evokes the presence of his father, 551 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,799 the effect of a sometimes cruel presence, 552 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,159 of surviving in a world where he was abandoned by his mother 553 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,079 but remained fond and admiring of the father 554 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,879 who sometimes seemed to love him - yet beat him. 555 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:49,199 "Ronnie's violence was not news to me because he'd made a habit of 556 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,200 beating up his second wife as well." 557 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,079 Walter Isaacson in his review of le Carre's memoir The Pigeon Tunnel 558 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,039 captures the poignant essence 559 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,039 of such haunting by quoting Barack Obama. 560 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,199 "Someone once said that every man is trying to either live up to 561 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,159 his father's expectations or make up for his father's mistakes." 562 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,759 Richard Nixon put it more succinctly. 563 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,280 "I was born in a house my father built." 564 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,999 Le Carre remembers his father gambling in Monte Carlo. 565 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,599 Beneath the lawn of the sporting club were small tunnels 566 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,119 from which trapped pigeons were ejected over the sea as targets. 567 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,639 The ones that survived returned to the place of their birth 568 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200 where the same traps awaited them.' 569 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,119 There's hundreds of policeman in the garden, thousands of them. 570 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,120 I saw them through the window. 571 00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:50,720 What are you doing? 572 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,200 What are you doing? What are you doing?! 573 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,119 I don't think you can understand John le Carre without understanding 574 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,639 the childhood of David Cornwall. 575 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,079 David's father was a serial con man 576 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,959 who spent two terms in prison 577 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,639 and who cheated people out of large sums of money. 578 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,119 David's mother had left the family home. 579 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,199 She left in the middle of the night without saying goodbye to her sons 580 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,879 when David was only five years old. 581 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,479 As a little boy, he used to go up to women who arrived at the house, 582 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,679 and quite a number of women did arrive at the house, 583 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,159 because his father, Ronnie, Ronnie Cornwall was, um, 584 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,199 had many, many girlfriends. 585 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,839 David would sidle up to these women and say, "Are you my mother?" 586 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,879 He learned to spy, because no one told him what was going on. 587 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,999 When his father was taken off to prison, 588 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,159 no one explained where his father was. 589 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,319 No one explained where his mother was, these things just happened. 590 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,639 He wanted to have a normal family life. 591 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,119 He wanted to be a good father to his children 592 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,559 and he used this curious expression. He said, "I am the bridge that 593 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,160 my children must walk across in order to have normal lives." 594 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,079 We know from recent biographical research 595 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,519 that during his second marriage, 596 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,880 he had, as a minimum, 11 affairs. 597 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,319 John le Carre's interpretation of the world of espionage 598 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,439 is very personal and it is in part 599 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,839 a reaction against what he thought 600 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,479 was a dangerous falsification of the world of espionage, 601 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,839 really through the power of the image 602 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,879 of James Bond. 603 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,119 So in novel after novel, 604 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,119 you see him challenging that glamorisation 605 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,799 and you certainly see it in The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, 606 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,360 which was his breakthrough novel. 607 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,520 Come, come. 608 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,280 Jump, Alec! Jump, man! 609 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,320 Jump, man! 610 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,439 In both the book and the film the way in which those operatives 611 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,159 out in the field are exposed to injury or death. 612 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:55,719 You see that particularly in the devastating final sequence 613 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,519 in the film, that is not something that you would witness 614 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,639 in a Bond film. 615 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,159 David was working as... 616 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,639 ...his cover role was working as a second secretary 617 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,119 in the British Embassy in Bonn. 618 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,519 But The Spy Who Came in from the Cold 619 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,839 just hit a nerve at the right moment. 620 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,559 It was the moment when the Berlin Wall went up, 621 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,039 when Kennedy came to Berlin, 622 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,399 when suddenly that seemed the centre of the world. 623 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,399 I think also he is the writer 624 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,519 about the post colonial experience, 625 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,239 about Britain trying to come to terms 626 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:56,959 with its much diminished role. After The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, 627 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,199 he wrote a book called The Looking Glass War. 628 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,279 It upset a lot of people in the intelligence world, 629 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,359 because it made them appear incompetent, 630 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,959 and that was the thing that they didn't like. 631 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,120 Perhaps, if you're looking at SIS through the le Carre prism, 632 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,959 a lot of le Carre's post Cold War writing is often about 633 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,999 how the Secret Intelligence Service are doing things 634 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,319 that are not ethically good. 635 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,879 So for example, the backdrop to The Constant Gardener is 636 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,839 the SIS are, along with the British government, 637 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,160 supporting big pharma in post colonial Africa. 638 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:44,479 "My continent, Africa, is staggering under the weight of not one, 639 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,399 but three plagues. Yet still the governments of the USA and Europe, 640 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,999 at the behest of the pharmaceutical companies 641 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,639 that seem to control them, drag their feet and continue to give us 642 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,959 endless reasons why we should buy your branded drugs 643 00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:02,639 at five, ten, 20 times the price." 644 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,279 Sweetheart, don't bother to see us off, it could be ages. 645 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,280 OK, well, if you're sure. Mwah! 646 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,359 'John le Carre's close friend Yvette Pierpaoli 647 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,160 was a French humanitarian who lived in Cambodia and throughout the world. 648 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,239 He dedicated his novel The Constant Gardener to her 649 00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:25,720 and based his main character, Tessa Quale, upon her. 650 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,479 "Yvette, like almost no one else, had opened my eyes 651 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,439 to constructive compassion, 652 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,159 to putting your money and your life where your heart was 653 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,480 and I was not alone in this."' 654 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,599 When you look at the backdrop to some other le Carre novels, 655 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,879 SIS are involved and complicit in illegal arms trafficking. 656 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,959 So in the story of The Night Manager, 657 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:55,039 SIS is an organisation that is breaching arms embargoes 658 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,159 and supporting international military trade. 659 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,919 So there's a variance here between popular perceptions and reality. 660 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:06,439 What led you to believe that British arms are being exported 661 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,399 under the counter, through trade pass? 662 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,519 I was shown fake MOD end user certificates 663 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,440 for seven different arms companies, UK and US. 664 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,840 Do you mean these? 665 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,079 Yes. 666 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,439 Those are genuine MOD export certificates for Bulgaria and Italy. 667 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,999 That's not true. 668 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,239 I have signed letters from both Italian and Bulgarian governments 669 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,839 confirming the sales. This is a cover-up. 670 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,520 Angela, are you accusing me of lying? 671 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,000 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky 56793

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