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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,080 โ™ช All we do is hide away 2 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,636 โ™ช All we do is, all we do is hide away 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,958 โ™ช All we do is lie and wait 4 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,669 โ™ช All we do is, all we do is lie and wait 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,389 โ™ช I've been upside down 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,075 โ™ช I don't wanna be the right way 'round 7 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:35,869 โ™ช Can't find paradise on the ground โ™ช 8 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,271 So... What did he tell you? My dad? 9 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,429 Enough for me to know if you 10 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,795 never want to talk about this again, then that's fine. 11 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,630 Or if you want to talk about it every day 12 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,478 for the rest of your life, that's fine, too. 13 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,830 - I'm doing it properly. - I see you are. 14 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,633 He was just very shocked when I introduced myself, 15 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:33,793 and scared. 16 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,475 And he was babbling 17 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,189 and kept repeating that it, didn't mean anything. 18 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,911 He kept on apologising, 19 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,915 but I wasn't interested in apologies. I didn't want contrition. 20 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:50,957 What I wanted was... 21 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,317 To understand. 22 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,200 And the only person who could help me do that 23 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,593 was dead. 24 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,433 Does it ever cross your mind, Cass, we have a very limited pot of money 25 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,119 and if we spend too much on an incredibly expensive 26 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,192 and time consuming investigation in to 40-year-old abuse, 27 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,950 then we've got nothing to spend on a child that got abused last week. 28 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,074 Yes, of course. 29 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:01,029 And? 30 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:08,959 Would you like to come through? 31 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,597 And in terms of the bigger investigation, 32 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,035 the murder investigation, where are you with that? 33 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:16,469 I don't know. 34 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,756 They questioned me again yesterday, but I have a watertight alibi. 35 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,070 And this was that you were sectioned in the Maudsley. 36 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,591 Twenty-six years ago, yes. 37 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,317 And for what it's worth, I did not kill David Walker. 38 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,434 Okay. 39 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,630 I just hope I have all the facts now. 40 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,757 I just need to, er, consider how best to proceed. 41 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:40,909 Yeah, of course. 42 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,798 - How long do you think it will be... - I don't know. 43 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,235 I've never had to deal with anything remotely like this. 44 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,233 I'm sorry for snapping, but I'm... I'm cross. And disappointed. 45 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,274 And Flo? 46 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,360 Erm, Simon, could you could pick her up from school today? 47 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,591 - Yeah. - Okay, thank you and, Colin, 48 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,752 until I decide what to do, I need you to find somewhere else to stay, please. 49 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:06,714 Sure. Sure. 50 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:12,159 And if the investigation goes away then maybe, we can get through this. 51 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,760 If it drags on, if, God forbid, you were charged and it went to trial, 52 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,631 we could obviously never let you parent Flo. 53 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,678 You'd either have to move out permanently, 54 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,035 and we'd have to consider Simon as a single parent, 55 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,031 or if you both felt you couldn't do that, 56 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,518 then we'd have to take her back. 57 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,070 You know I would actually get the boys DNA tested 58 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,673 if I thought it would help you. 59 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,910 But I know you know it's nonsense. 60 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,754 You just wanted him gone. 61 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:45,999 Like me and Mum. 62 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,309 So that he couldn't ask you any more questions you didn't want to answer. 63 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,592 But Mum and I are not going anywhere. 64 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:55,748 I'm sorry. 65 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,868 Anyway, come on, do you want another cup of tea? 66 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,992 So for over two weeks now, we've all wrestled with this case. 67 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,919 Following one dead end after another, 68 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,309 with the final nail in the coffin of the idea 69 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,790 of Sara Mahmoud's possible guilt, coming last night, 70 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,714 when her husband turned up out of the blue, with this. 71 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,598 Evidence she was in Italy at the time of Walker's death. 72 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,955 Which, er, was a blow. 73 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,909 Because we know that Sara knew Walker, and I reckon if we hunted hard enough, 74 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:46,751 we could conclusively place her at a gathering Walker was at. 75 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,593 Given also we know what Walker liked to do to young girls, 76 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,639 when he turns up at her flat, as a client, eight years later, 77 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,837 she has the perfect motive for a revenge murder. 78 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,309 - Except the alibi is good. - More than good. 79 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,512 It's watertight. There's no way she could have killed him. 80 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,069 Question is, 81 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:08,873 is it too good? 82 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,638 - You think it's faked somehow? - No. 83 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,755 I think it's real, but what it feels like to me is, 84 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:20,230 is a bunch of information collected by a woman 85 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,072 who knew she'd need an alibi. 86 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:23,959 Which would mean, 87 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,755 she'd have had to know that Walker was going to die? 88 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,715 Yes. 89 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,599 Okay, here goes, and, erm, 90 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,315 stop me when it gets too mental. 91 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,193 So, we have three suspects 92 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:48,990 who actually all have dysfunction consistent with abusive childhoods. 93 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,629 Drink issues, mental-health issues, relationship issues. 94 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,992 We have three people who, for my money, 95 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,117 just tried too hard to look like they didn't know each other. 96 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,352 And then we have an idea. 97 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,519 That Sara Mahmoud was abused by David Walker, 98 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,435 but that Colin and Marion were abused by people we've not yet identified. 99 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,151 And that, at some point in early 1990, 100 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,471 after Sara realises the client is the same man who'd raped her 101 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,757 at a gathering eight years before, the three of them, 102 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,319 already, I believe, known to each other, somehow, 103 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:36,029 came together and hatched a plan to murder all three of their abusers. 104 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,233 Now they knew if they murdered their own abuser, 105 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,788 there'd almost certainly be an easily traceable link back to them. 106 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,632 So they agreed to kill each other's. 107 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,959 S-Sorry, Guv, if I'm being dim here, but, erm, 108 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,790 if you've created the perfect alibi, 109 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,634 why did Sara wait two weeks before she gave it to us? 110 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,792 'Cause offering it up immediately could also arouse suspicion. 111 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,199 How much more credible for her husband to find it? 112 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,511 And you think Walker was the first victim? 113 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,478 I think him turning up as a punter at Sara's flat 114 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:12,834 was what kicked it all off. 115 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,913 - And he was killed by? - Has to be Marion, doesn't it? 116 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,069 I think so. 117 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,913 Osborne was in the Maudsley, Sara was in Italy. 118 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,515 And Walker's body was found less than eight miles 119 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,477 from Marion's parents' house. 120 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,638 So why did Osborne spend so much time with Walker, then? 121 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,598 I think he was trying to confirm that Walker was who Sara thought he was. 122 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,514 So then that has to mean that Sara would have had to kill 123 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,194 Colin Osborne's abuser, and Osborne, Marion's? 124 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:41,039 Yes. 125 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,193 And if we're right, 126 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,913 to prove this theory, we'd need to find three things. 127 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,028 We'd need to find evidence of that historic connection, 128 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,319 we'd need to find evidence of who those other abusers might have been. 129 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,439 And we'd need to find two more bodies. 130 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,597 It won't be forever. It's fine. 131 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,752 Give her a big kiss from me. 132 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,389 Tell her I love her and I'll be back very soon. 133 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:38,310 Murray and Jake. We need to find out where our three suspects might have met, 134 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,677 but we know that two of them weren't even in London till 1985. 135 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:44,232 So we're looking at a meeting that happened 136 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,550 sometime between then and 1990. 137 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,675 Where might that have occurred? Was it through a job, 138 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,116 a party, a flat-share, group counselling, I don't know. 139 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,760 Think laterally. We will be focusing on the suspects' families. 140 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,752 DCI Stuart will go to Glasgow to talk to Colin Osborne's father. 141 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,310 Fran will visit Sara Mahmoud's husband. I will visit Marion Kelsey's sister. 142 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,199 We don't think they'll know a lot about 143 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,271 what's been going on the last few weeks, 144 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,433 and if our suspects were abused, 145 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,592 then their families are our most likely source of information. 146 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,916 And how much do we actually tell them? 147 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,158 We stop short of actually lying, 148 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,111 but not by much, or we'll get nothing. 149 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,511 We don't need these interviews to be admissible. 150 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,875 Right now, we just need to know that we're on the right lines. 151 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,358 So no appointments, no warnings we're coming. 152 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,112 We need to catch them on the back foot. 153 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,350 - You don't need to say anything. - Look. I... 154 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,358 I just hope this doesn't affect our work. Or our friendship. 155 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,795 It won't. It hasn't, all right? I promise. 156 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,872 Now piss off. 157 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,910 They're trying to trace more of the victims of the activities 158 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,991 inside this Brentwood House and if they do, 159 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,753 they think they could support the allegation you were present there 160 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,273 on at least one occasion. 161 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,352 You're gonna be suspended from all duties, 162 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,317 whilst a full investigation takes place. 163 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,318 I have to ask, 164 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,597 if you did know what he was doing, 165 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,591 how could you have not said anything? 166 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,319 It sounds so inadequate, doesn't it? 167 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,996 When you hear it on the news, people saying they were different times. 168 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,475 But they were. 169 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,999 There were times when a rock star could go on telly, 170 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,199 being interviewed about his underage girlfriend and no one got arrested. 171 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,596 We all just shrugged it off. 172 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,912 Thought it was sort of cheeky and amusing. 173 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,315 We all bought into that, until we didn't. 174 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,831 So that time I followed him, 175 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:00,753 and it was just once. 176 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,191 He told me she was 16. 177 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,268 And willing. 178 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,798 And he begged me to forgive him. 179 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,433 And I wanted to. 180 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,192 Both forgive him and believe him. 181 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,673 Because, otherwise, 182 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,916 it was the end of our marriage 183 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,318 and everything we'd built up together. 184 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:47,828 And so I did. 185 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,714 And for that, 186 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,111 I am truly ashamed. 187 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:17,958 Well, Colin was a, a lively lad, you know, when he was a little boy. 188 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,549 He was full of mischief and fun. 189 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,430 And then, when he was about... 190 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,797 Nine, he just, 191 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,755 slowly started to change. 192 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,152 Became quieter, you know, more introverted. 193 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,597 Staying in his room more and not seeing his pals so much, you know. 194 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,073 And his, his school work suffered. 195 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,716 And he stopped being affectionate. 196 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,915 Got angry at the slightest thing and, er, he just, 197 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,953 became a different child. 198 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,632 And I presume you asked him what was wrong? 199 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,472 Over and over, for years. 200 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,877 - He would always just say "Nothing". - Say "I'm fine". 201 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,996 So, in the end we just thought, well, that's how it is. That's... 202 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,514 That's how he was, that, er... 203 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,792 Children change. 204 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,517 And what you're talking about, sexual abuse, 205 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,156 wasn't something that you considered back in the '70s. 206 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,995 It wasn't one of the options for why a child isn't themselves. 207 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,556 But if we consider it as a possibility now, 208 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,991 do you have any idea where something like that could have happened to Colin? 209 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,074 Were there ever any issues in his primary school? 210 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:45,755 No. 211 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,198 I never heard nothing like that there. 212 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,840 - Any friends or family? - No. 213 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,596 Was he a member of a church, 214 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,872 or a football team or a scout group or... 215 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,629 Mr Osborne? 216 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,312 There was one bloke, a pal from work, Len Paxton. 217 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,553 He ran the local platoon of 218 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,518 Club Rangers. 219 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,557 I don't know why she seems to hate me. Or hate our mum. 220 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,073 Like I said, she's troubled. 221 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,754 - Was it always like that? - Absolutely not. No. 222 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,471 We adored each other when we were growing up. 223 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,677 Do you remember when it changed? Was it overnight or... 224 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,354 No, I remember it exactly when it changed. 225 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:54,349 I was 14 and Marion was 11, and we'd moved to Cork. 226 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,309 Our dad had got a job as a lecturer there. 227 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,472 You know we had a great house, a lovely garden. 228 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,835 We even got our own rooms, for the first time. 229 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,754 But Marion just seemed to hate it. Overnight, she became 230 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,036 - distant, sullen, aggressive. - Towards you? 231 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:17,237 Towards me, towards our mum, at school, everyone. 232 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:18,673 Including your dad? 233 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,793 Actually, no, not Dad. 234 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,952 But then him and Marion were always stupidly close. 235 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,158 So, no, Dad was the only one who escaped her ire. 236 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,072 When did your dad pass away? 237 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,038 Er, 1991. 238 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,948 - How old was he? - 57. 239 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,840 That sounds pretty young. Was he ill? 240 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,679 - Why do you ask? - Just trying to fill in the gaps. 241 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,639 Well, no, he wasn't ill, well, not physically, anyway. 242 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,230 He, erm, took his own life. 243 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,030 I'm sorry to hear that. Do you mind if I ask how? 244 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,718 He hanged himself. Highgate Woods. 245 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,955 So did he have a history of depression or mental illness? 246 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,479 What are you suggesting? 247 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,710 Did he? 248 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,469 No. 249 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,555 Right. 250 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,318 Do you know if your mum's at home? 251 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,869 Paxton? 252 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,399 Don't recall a Len Paxton, before my time probably. 253 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,429 Really? 254 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:39,955 Sorry? 255 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,632 Well, no, it's just, erm... 256 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,635 Well, I found him with a simple Google search, so. 257 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,673 What you asking me about him for then? 258 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,439 Because I wanna know what happened to him after he left prison in 1988. 259 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,353 For assaulting two boys from a platoon in Dumfries. 260 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,789 Look, this is all ancient history. 261 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,913 Do you know what? I, I am getting 262 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,912 really pissed off with that expression because it's just not. 263 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,716 The sort of things people like Len Paxton did, 264 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,233 they're still affecting people today. 265 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,072 Catastrophically. It 266 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,351 fucks up whole lives. Okay? 267 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,154 So, unless you want me to come back tonight when all the parents are here, 268 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,798 I'd start trying a little harder to remember, if I were you. 269 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,509 He's dead. 270 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:37,429 When? 271 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,075 '92. 272 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:43,789 How? 273 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,431 He topped himself, everyone reckoned. 274 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,035 "Reckoned"? 275 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,317 He had this little yacht, he used to take some of the lads out on. 276 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,355 It was found a few days after he went missing, 277 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,635 drifting in open water off Greenock Harbour. 278 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,193 They never found his body. 279 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,390 Although, I'm not sure anyone looked too hard. 280 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,350 It's changed. We've changed. 281 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,154 People like him don't slip through the nets anymore. 282 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,878 Well, I really hope so. 283 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,554 But they were saying that 30 years ago. And 20. And 10. 284 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,756 And I just pray 285 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,071 that they won't be saying it 20 years from now, about today. 286 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,272 Her father told me what he'd found out 287 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:43,873 in the months after she ran away. 288 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,435 This was while she was still 13? 289 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,553 And being taken to parties organised by men like Walker, 290 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,669 and raped. 291 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,471 Did he not report this? Did he not go to the police? 292 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,115 Yes. 293 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,436 And, apparently, your lot told him you couldn't do anything, 294 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,990 because it'd been her choice to become a child prostitute. 295 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,231 A phrase it should be fucking illegal to even use. 296 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,754 Oh, Jesus. 297 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,637 - You knew. - No. 298 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,518 She told you. You knew. 299 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,318 I did not know. 300 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,829 She was always making things up, Elise. 301 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,196 Exaggerating everything. 302 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,475 Your father would never have done the things that she said. 303 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,551 How old was she when she told you? 304 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,800 You tell me now or I swear I'll... 305 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,069 Elise. 306 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,634 12. 307 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,714 My... 308 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,119 And you decided not to believe her because... What? 309 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,238 You didn't wanna lose the house? Or the research trips abroad? 310 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,469 Or because... What? 311 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,629 You're an evil fucking witch! 312 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,750 And we have wondered all our lives why she is so angry? 313 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,390 I need you to tell me exactly what Marion told you. 314 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,314 Please. 315 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,077 - What sort of a mother does that? - I'm struggling to be charitable. 316 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,469 Well, Osborne's dad clearly had no idea. 317 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:01,993 Yeah, nor did Marion's sister. 318 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,071 I guess we've lost our element of surprise. 319 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,479 I'm pretty sure all three of them will know 320 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:06,675 the questions we've been asking now. 321 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,513 Which is why I want to get in front of Colin and Marion today 322 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:10,999 while they're still on the back foot. 323 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,269 And ask them what? 324 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,918 Where they were when their own abusers died. 325 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,595 Because if we're right, they'll have absolutely watertight alibis. 326 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,593 Which both proves the theory, and sort of screws us, evidentially. 327 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,319 What have we got from Murray? 328 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,754 So, he's spent all day trawling NHS records. 329 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,630 Turns out that at various points in '87 and early 1988, 330 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,192 both Colin and Sara were under the care of Ealing Hospital psychiatric unit. 331 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,838 - As in-patients? - Yeah. 332 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,035 What about Marion? 333 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,918 We haven't located her records yet, but here's a thing, 334 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,389 before she lived at her Smoke Lane flat, 335 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,074 from early '86 to late '87, 336 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,757 she lived in a flat in South Ealing. 337 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,236 So that's the link, they met in Ealing Psychiatric Unit. 338 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,191 Well, this could be hard to prove, 339 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,077 but, yeah, it's gotta be a possibility, isn't it? 340 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,555 Yeah. 341 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,198 You track down Colin. I'll speak to Marion. Thanks, Sunny. 342 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,590 The train now approaching platform four 343 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,829 does not stop here. 344 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,753 Stand back from the edge of platform four. 345 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,348 The next train is not scheduled to stop. 346 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,429 Jason? 347 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,279 How are you doing? 348 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,594 Fancy a cuppa? 349 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,269 Yes. 350 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,399 Look, I know it's really annoying 351 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,074 when people give you trite bits of advice on how to be happy, 352 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,119 but you don't have to be defined by your past. 353 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,313 I had a horrible relationship split a couple of years ago. 354 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,278 Then my mum died. And then my cat. 355 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,990 And I was really struggling. And then I met this bloke. 356 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:37,398 I thought, "God, he's nice, he's not like other blokes, 357 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,275 "I'd love to get to know him better." 358 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,469 And it showed me that there was possibility. Ahead. 359 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,032 - Do you see? - Yeah. 360 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:49,999 That life goes on, Jase. 361 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,270 Right. Yeah, well, thanks for that. And good luck with the bloke. 362 00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:59,350 No, Jase, the bloke's you. 363 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,115 - You what? - It's you. 364 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,869 I like you. 365 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,392 - Really? - Don't look so surprised. 366 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,393 It's just, erm... 367 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,036 No one's ever said that to me. 368 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,031 So what I wanted to say was, shall we get that date in the diary? 369 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,755 - Marion, please. Don't go out now. - I am fine. Honestly. 370 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,752 Please don't say anything to Tony just yet, 371 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,558 'cause I need to speak to him myself, okay? 372 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,510 - I'll be back in a couple of hours. - I love you. 373 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,109 - I love you, too. - And I am so, so, sorry. 374 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,674 - Sunny. - Guv, Colin's not at his house. 375 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,713 His husband said he'd moved out for a bit and was staying at a Holiday Inn, 376 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,233 but he's not there either. 377 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,631 - Right. - You at Marion's yet? 378 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,035 Er, no, no. Not, not yet. 379 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:31,989 I'll call you. 380 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,956 They have no proof of anything, Marion, and they never will have. 381 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,389 But they know. 382 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,876 But knowing something and proving it in a court of law 383 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,473 are two very different things. 384 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,319 Yeah, they are. 385 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,589 Very different. 386 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,714 Marion. 387 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,515 Where are you running to? It's over. 388 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,909 So, I want to speak to my husband now. Okay? 389 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,638 Now I want to explain. 390 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,357 Well, I was in Goa when Paxton went missing. 391 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,591 Er, I have hotel and flights receipts. I can prove I wasn't here. 392 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:28,908 I'm sure. 393 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,078 And when Marion's father died? 394 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,908 Can you prove you weren't in Highgate Woods? 395 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,714 And did you meet them both in Ealing Psychiatric Unit, 396 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,799 or just Sara? 397 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,150 I've read, er, people who've been abused 398 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,396 can always recognise other victims. 399 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,109 Something in the way they carry themselves. 400 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,275 Was it that? 401 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,760 That drew you to each other? 402 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,790 So I guess now you pull what you have together, 403 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,073 and present it to the CPS 404 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,956 and they may go for it and you may be able to charge us. 405 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,197 But before you do, maybe I could just give you some other facts? 406 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,508 Please do. 407 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,468 So... 408 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,152 He used to come 'round to our house on Sunday nights, 409 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,713 mainly, for a roast dinner. 410 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,158 And he'd always find time to play with me. 411 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,389 He'd pretend to be a horse and I'd climb on his back 412 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,311 and then he'd buck and twist and turn, 413 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,791 and I was a cowboy at a bucking bronco contest and I fucking loved him. 414 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:12,278 And when my dad found out that he ran the local Club Rangers Platoon 415 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,796 and suggested that I join, I could not have been happier. 416 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,308 And for six months it was the best time of my life. 417 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,235 We played football and kick the can 418 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,029 and made fires in the woods and bows and arrows, it was 419 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,638 Enid Blyton for real. 420 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,231 The first time it happened was when we went camping for the weekend. 421 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,714 My tent was an old army one of my granddad's 422 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,157 and when we started to put it up, 423 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,876 he said it wouldn't be any good because it wasn't waterproof anymore 424 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,919 and it was gonna rain. 425 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,910 But that was okay he said, because he had room in his tent. 426 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,719 That night he only gave me a massage to help with the day's hike. 427 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,672 Er, the next night he touched me and asked me to touch him. 428 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,712 It didn't rain that night, either. 429 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,678 I can spend a lifetime talking to you about the shame 430 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,754 and guilt. 431 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,713 And how I thought I must have actually wanted him 432 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,189 to do it because sometimes I got an erection. 433 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,196 And how I couldn't tell Mum and Dad because he was their friend 434 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,352 and I didn't want to upset them or embarrass anyone. 435 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,314 And how I couldn't tell anyone else 436 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,550 because he said I'd be sent away if I did. 437 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,559 But I do still ask myself, every single day, 438 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,113 why didn't I tell someone? 439 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,072 Then over the next 440 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,239 six months, 441 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,232 on visits to our house when my parents were out, 442 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,991 he did... He did things 443 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,388 which actually physically damaged me for life. 444 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,114 Because a 48-year-old man is not meant to put himself inside a 9-year-old boy. 445 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,834 But much worse than the physical damage is the damage he did to me as a person. 446 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,552 Because that first time, he changed me, instantly and forever. 447 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,470 The drinking, the rage, 448 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,759 the suicide attempts, the fighting, the manic working. 449 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,353 The endless exhausting visceral rage 450 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,596 that I feel every day of my life, 451 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,558 that I feel right at this moment, having to explain this to you. 452 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,871 That is all because of him. 453 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,598 So you might put me in prison. But let me tell you this, 454 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,392 you can't judge me unless you've had it done to you. 455 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,715 I won't ever, ever, let any one judge me for what I did. 456 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,190 And just so you know, what happened to Sara and Marion, 457 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,633 was much worse. 458 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,274 Hiya. You okay? 459 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,513 I need to tell you something. 460 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,758 For a while I wondered if he only took the job in Cork because of the house. 461 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,518 Which meant that Elise and I had our own rooms, finally. 462 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,476 First time, my mum was just downstairs, 463 00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:56,438 she was watching The Onedin Line. 464 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,078 I could hear the theme music. 465 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,999 And he came in when my lights were out and he knelt by my bedside. 466 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,591 And he said that I was growing up now, 467 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,509 becoming a young woman, and that soon I'd have boyfriends. 468 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,035 And he wanted me to be prepared for that. 469 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,154 He wanted to help me 470 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,112 so I knew how to enjoy it. 471 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,873 And then he put his hand under the covers 472 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,991 and he did what a boyfriend might do. 473 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,114 And he did that pretty much every Saturday night 474 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,077 when he was home, for about a year? 475 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,397 And then one day, when I was having my tea, 476 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,959 I finally told my mum 477 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,272 that he did things to me while she was downstairs. 478 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,839 And I remember she was... She was peeling potatoes at the sink. 479 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,308 And she never even stopped. 480 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,676 She never turned to me, she never said anything. 481 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,069 And five minutes later, 482 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,470 she told me to go back upstairs and finish my homework. 483 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,520 And I wondered, at first, if she hadn't been listening. 484 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,991 But then, that night, she came upstairs and stayed there, 485 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,670 folding clothes and, and tidying 486 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,677 for an hour after I went to bed. 487 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,710 And, of course, he never came near me. 488 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,230 And she did that for about six months, and then one day she just stopped. 489 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,116 And then when she and my sister were out at the cinema, 490 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,553 a few weeks later, 491 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,753 he raped me for the first time. 492 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,870 And I remember I said to him, erm... 493 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,390 If he did the same to Elise and he said no, no, it just me, 494 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:53,988 because I was special. 495 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,159 I was special. 496 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,112 And the anger, Tony, the anger 497 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,873 that I felt for so many years and I still do... 498 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,750 In the end, it made me do a terrible thing. 499 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,469 Hey. 500 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,509 Hiya. 501 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,154 How are you? 502 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:51,634 He sent me that. 503 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:54,869 Who did? 504 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,475 Him. Your mother's lover. 505 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,270 It's the letter she wrote telling him why she was finishing with him. 506 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,639 How she realised that what we had was what she wanted. 507 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,554 How terrible she felt about what she'd done, 508 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,196 and how the affair made her realise 509 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,518 how much she loved me. 510 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,833 It's a good letter. 511 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,236 To read, Cass. For me. 512 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,110 It's very good for me to know that. 513 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,555 Mmm. 514 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,595 And you wouldn't have got it if you hadn't have gone to see him, Dad. 515 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,040 - So you know, you were right. - You. 516 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,278 Oh... 517 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,718 Listen, I've gotta make a quick call. 518 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,833 I love you, Dad. 519 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,034 Just, er... 520 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,679 I'll be quick. 521 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,116 - Sunny? - Hey. 522 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,354 Can you meet me? 523 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,430 This case rests or falls on them knowing each other. 524 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,080 Without conclusive proof of that, it is just a theory. 525 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,354 And they're not gonna confess. 526 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,277 And without any bodies, it's gonna be very hard 527 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,032 to connect any of them to the deaths. 528 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,118 So I can't see the CPS being delirious to press charges. 529 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,713 But we do have proof now. 530 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,715 You've just told me you saw them together. 531 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,915 I saw them. 532 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,714 On my own. 533 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,559 CCTV? Or... 534 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,152 And they arrived separately. 535 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:23,749 Fuck. 536 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,112 Yeah. Fuck. 537 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,314 Well... 538 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,717 I guess, in the end, you have to ask yourself the old question. 539 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,598 Why do we send people to prison? 540 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,394 And do Colin, Sara and Marion... 541 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,959 ...need to be deterred from committing murder again? 542 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,317 - No. - No. I don't think so. 543 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,559 So, do they need to be rehabilitated? 544 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,195 I mean, for the last 20 years, at least, 545 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,189 I mean, they've all been very valuable members of society. 546 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,876 All three of them. I mean, helping the most vulnerable. 547 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,393 Which means, 548 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,028 in the end, it pretty much comes down to punishment. 549 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,069 Do Colin, Sara and Marion need to be punished? 550 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,755 And that's it, you see. Because for me, 551 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,715 I think their whole lives have been one, long, indescribably brutal punishment. 552 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,677 And I just can't see why we would punish them further. 553 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:42,914 I can't see who would benefit. 554 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,109 No. No. Nor can I. 555 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,194 Okay. 556 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,749 So... 557 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,309 This is 558 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,033 significant, Sunny. This is a pretty fucking huge thing I would do here. 559 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,395 - Yeah? You? - Mmm, yeah. 560 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,755 To be absolutely clear, this is just me. 561 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,308 You would never be implicated in any decision I make. 562 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,597 But if you have a single shred of doubt, please, you tell me now. 563 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,148 Tell me to go to Andrews first thing tomorrow morning, 564 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,993 report everything, tell him I saw them all, together. 565 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,190 I don't believe they could be charged, 566 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,229 and I see no point in disrupting their lives further. So, no. 567 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,873 I won't tell you to do that. 568 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,468 You're all right, do you know that? 569 00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:59,873 You're not so bad yourself. 570 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,155 I'm gonna leave now, before you try and snog me. 571 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:08,839 Smart move. 572 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,595 Night-night, Sunny. 573 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,795 Night, Guv. 574 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Ripped & Corrected By mstoll March 2017 575 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,000 Ripped & Corrected By mstoll Released on www.Addic7ed.com 45669

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