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โช All we do is hide away
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00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,636
โช All we do is, all we do is hide away
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โช All we do is lie and wait
4
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,669
โช All we do is,
all we do is lie and wait
5
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โช I've been upside down
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โช I don't wanna be the right way 'round
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โช Can't find paradise on the ground โช
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So... What did he tell you? My dad?
9
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Enough for me to know if you
10
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never want to talk about this again,
then that's fine.
11
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,630
Or if you want to talk about it
every day
12
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,478
for the rest of your life,
that's fine, too.
13
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- I'm doing it properly.
- I see you are.
14
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He was just very shocked
when I introduced myself,
15
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and scared.
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And he was babbling
17
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and kept repeating that it,
didn't mean anything.
18
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He kept on apologising,
19
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but I wasn't interested in apologies.
I didn't want contrition.
20
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What I wanted was...
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To understand.
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And the only person who could
help me do that
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was dead.
24
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,433
Does it ever cross your mind, Cass,
we have a very limited pot of money
25
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,119
and if we spend too much
on an incredibly expensive
26
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and time consuming investigation
in to 40-year-old abuse,
27
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then we've got nothing to spend on
a child that got abused last week.
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Yes, of course.
29
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And?
30
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Would you like to come through?
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And in terms of the bigger
investigation,
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the murder investigation,
where are you with that?
33
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I don't know.
34
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They questioned me again yesterday,
but I have a watertight alibi.
35
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And this was that you were sectioned
in the Maudsley.
36
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,591
Twenty-six years ago, yes.
37
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And for what it's worth,
I did not kill David Walker.
38
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Okay.
39
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,630
I just hope I have all the facts now.
40
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,757
I just need to, er,
consider how best to proceed.
41
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:40,909
Yeah, of course.
42
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,798
- How long do you think it will be...
- I don't know.
43
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,235
I've never had to deal with anything
remotely like this.
44
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I'm sorry for snapping, but I'm...
I'm cross. And disappointed.
45
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,274
And Flo?
46
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Erm, Simon, could you could pick her up
from school today?
47
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- Yeah.
- Okay, thank you and, Colin,
48
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until I decide what to do, I need you to
find somewhere else to stay, please.
49
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:06,714
Sure. Sure.
50
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:12,159
And if the investigation goes away
then maybe, we can get through this.
51
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,760
If it drags on, if, God forbid,
you were charged and it went to trial,
52
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,631
we could obviously never let you
parent Flo.
53
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,678
You'd either have to move out
permanently,
54
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,035
and we'd have to consider Simon
as a single parent,
55
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,031
or if you both felt
you couldn't do that,
56
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,518
then we'd have to take her back.
57
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,070
You know I would actually
get the boys DNA tested
58
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if I thought it would help you.
59
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,910
But I know you know it's nonsense.
60
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,754
You just wanted him gone.
61
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:45,999
Like me and Mum.
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00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,309
So that he couldn't ask you any more
questions you didn't want to answer.
63
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,592
But Mum and I are not going anywhere.
64
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:55,748
I'm sorry.
65
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,868
Anyway, come on,
do you want another cup of tea?
66
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,992
So for over two weeks now,
we've all wrestled with this case.
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00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,919
Following one dead end after another,
68
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,309
with the final nail in the coffin
of the idea
69
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,790
of Sara Mahmoud's possible guilt,
coming last night,
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00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,714
when her husband turned up
out of the blue, with this.
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00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,598
Evidence she was in Italy at the time
of Walker's death.
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00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,955
Which, er, was a blow.
73
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,909
Because we know that Sara knew Walker,
and I reckon if we hunted hard enough,
74
00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:46,751
we could conclusively place her
at a gathering Walker was at.
75
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,593
Given also we know what Walker
liked to do to young girls,
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00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,639
when he turns up at her flat,
as a client, eight years later,
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00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,837
she has the perfect motive
for a revenge murder.
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00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,309
- Except the alibi is good.
- More than good.
79
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,512
It's watertight. There's no way
she could have killed him.
80
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,069
Question is,
81
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:08,873
is it too good?
82
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,638
- You think it's faked somehow?
- No.
83
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,755
I think it's real,
but what it feels like to me is,
84
00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:20,230
is a bunch of information collected
by a woman
85
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,072
who knew she'd need an alibi.
86
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:23,959
Which would mean,
87
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,755
she'd have had to know that Walker
was going to die?
88
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,715
Yes.
89
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,599
Okay, here goes, and, erm,
90
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,315
stop me when it gets too mental.
91
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,193
So, we have three suspects
92
00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:48,990
who actually all have dysfunction
consistent with abusive childhoods.
93
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,629
Drink issues, mental-health issues,
relationship issues.
94
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,992
We have three people who, for my money,
95
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,117
just tried too hard to look like
they didn't know each other.
96
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,352
And then we have an idea.
97
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,519
That Sara Mahmoud was abused
by David Walker,
98
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,435
but that Colin and Marion were abused
by people we've not yet identified.
99
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,151
And that, at some point in early 1990,
100
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,471
after Sara realises the client
is the same man who'd raped her
101
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,757
at a gathering eight years before,
the three of them,
102
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,319
already, I believe,
known to each other, somehow,
103
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:36,029
came together and hatched a plan
to murder all three of their abusers.
104
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,233
Now they knew if they murdered
their own abuser,
105
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,788
there'd almost certainly be an easily
traceable link back to them.
106
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,632
So they agreed to kill each other's.
107
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,959
S-Sorry, Guv, if I'm being
dim here, but, erm,
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00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,790
if you've created the perfect alibi,
109
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,634
why did Sara wait two weeks
before she gave it to us?
110
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,792
'Cause offering it up immediately
could also arouse suspicion.
111
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,199
How much more credible
for her husband to find it?
112
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,511
And you think Walker
was the first victim?
113
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,478
I think him turning up
as a punter at Sara's flat
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00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:12,834
was what kicked it all off.
115
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,913
- And he was killed by?
- Has to be Marion, doesn't it?
116
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,069
I think so.
117
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,913
Osborne was in the Maudsley,
Sara was in Italy.
118
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,515
And Walker's body was found
less than eight miles
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00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,477
from Marion's parents' house.
120
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,638
So why did Osborne spend so much time
with Walker, then?
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00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,598
I think he was trying to confirm
that Walker was who Sara thought he was.
122
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,514
So then that has to mean that Sara
would have had to kill
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Colin Osborne's abuser,
and Osborne, Marion's?
124
00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:41,039
Yes.
125
00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,193
And if we're right,
126
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,913
to prove this theory,
we'd need to find three things.
127
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,028
We'd need to find evidence
of that historic connection,
128
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,319
we'd need to find evidence of
who those other abusers might have been.
129
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,439
And we'd need to find two more bodies.
130
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,597
It won't be forever. It's fine.
131
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,752
Give her a big kiss from me.
132
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,389
Tell her I love her
and I'll be back very soon.
133
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:38,310
Murray and Jake. We need to find out
where our three suspects might have met,
134
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,677
but we know that two of them weren't
even in London till 1985.
135
00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:44,232
So we're looking at a meeting
that happened
136
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,550
sometime between then and 1990.
137
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,675
Where might that have occurred?
Was it through a job,
138
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,116
a party, a flat-share,
group counselling, I don't know.
139
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,760
Think laterally. We will be focusing
on the suspects' families.
140
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,752
DCI Stuart will go to Glasgow to talk
to Colin Osborne's father.
141
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,310
Fran will visit Sara Mahmoud's husband.
I will visit Marion Kelsey's sister.
142
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,199
We don't think they'll know a lot about
143
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,271
what's been going on
the last few weeks,
144
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,433
and if our suspects were abused,
145
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,592
then their families are our most likely
source of information.
146
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,916
And how much do we actually tell them?
147
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,158
We stop short of actually lying,
148
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,111
but not by much, or we'll get nothing.
149
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,511
We don't need these interviews
to be admissible.
150
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,875
Right now, we just need to know
that we're on the right lines.
151
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,358
So no appointments,
no warnings we're coming.
152
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,112
We need to catch them on the back foot.
153
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,350
- You don't need to say anything.
- Look. I...
154
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,358
I just hope this doesn't affect
our work. Or our friendship.
155
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,795
It won't. It hasn't, all right?
I promise.
156
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,872
Now piss off.
157
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,910
They're trying to trace more
of the victims of the activities
158
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,991
inside this Brentwood House
and if they do,
159
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,753
they think they could support
the allegation you were present there
160
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,273
on at least one occasion.
161
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,352
You're gonna be suspended
from all duties,
162
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,317
whilst a full investigation takes place.
163
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,318
I have to ask,
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00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,597
if you did know what he was doing,
165
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,591
how could you have not said anything?
166
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,319
It sounds so inadequate, doesn't it?
167
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,996
When you hear it on the news, people
saying they were different times.
168
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,475
But they were.
169
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,999
There were times when a rock star
could go on telly,
170
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,199
being interviewed about his underage
girlfriend and no one got arrested.
171
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,596
We all just shrugged it off.
172
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,912
Thought it was sort of
cheeky and amusing.
173
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,315
We all bought into that,
until we didn't.
174
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,831
So that time I followed him,
175
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and it was just once.
176
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,191
He told me she was 16.
177
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,268
And willing.
178
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,798
And he begged me to forgive him.
179
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,433
And I wanted to.
180
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,192
Both forgive him and believe him.
181
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,673
Because, otherwise,
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it was the end of our marriage
183
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,318
and everything we'd built up together.
184
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:47,828
And so I did.
185
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,714
And for that,
186
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,111
I am truly ashamed.
187
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:17,958
Well, Colin was a, a lively lad,
you know, when he was a little boy.
188
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,549
He was full of mischief and fun.
189
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,430
And then, when he was about...
190
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,797
Nine, he just,
191
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,755
slowly started to change.
192
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,152
Became quieter, you know,
more introverted.
193
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,597
Staying in his room more and
not seeing his pals so much, you know.
194
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,073
And his, his school work suffered.
195
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,716
And he stopped being affectionate.
196
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,915
Got angry at the slightest thing
and, er, he just,
197
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,953
became a different child.
198
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,632
And I presume
you asked him what was wrong?
199
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,472
Over and over, for years.
200
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,877
- He would always just say "Nothing".
- Say "I'm fine".
201
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,996
So, in the end we just thought,
well, that's how it is. That's...
202
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,514
That's how he was, that, er...
203
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,792
Children change.
204
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,517
And what you're talking about,
sexual abuse,
205
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,156
wasn't something that you considered
back in the '70s.
206
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,995
It wasn't one of the options for
why a child isn't themselves.
207
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,556
But if we consider it
as a possibility now,
208
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,991
do you have any idea where something
like that could have happened to Colin?
209
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,074
Were there ever any issues
in his primary school?
210
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:45,755
No.
211
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,198
I never heard nothing like that there.
212
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,840
- Any friends or family?
- No.
213
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,596
Was he a member of a church,
214
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,872
or a football team
or a scout group or...
215
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,629
Mr Osborne?
216
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,312
There was one bloke, a pal from work,
Len Paxton.
217
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,553
He ran the local platoon of
218
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,518
Club Rangers.
219
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,557
I don't know why she seems to hate me.
Or hate our mum.
220
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,073
Like I said, she's troubled.
221
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,754
- Was it always like that?
- Absolutely not. No.
222
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,471
We adored each other
when we were growing up.
223
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,677
Do you remember when it changed?
Was it overnight or...
224
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,354
No, I remember it exactly
when it changed.
225
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:54,349
I was 14 and Marion was 11,
and we'd moved to Cork.
226
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,309
Our dad had got a job
as a lecturer there.
227
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,472
You know we had a great house,
a lovely garden.
228
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,835
We even got our own rooms,
for the first time.
229
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,754
But Marion just seemed to hate it.
Overnight, she became
230
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,036
- distant, sullen, aggressive.
- Towards you?
231
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:17,237
Towards me, towards our mum,
at school, everyone.
232
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:18,673
Including your dad?
233
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,793
Actually, no, not Dad.
234
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,952
But then him and Marion were
always stupidly close.
235
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,158
So, no, Dad was the only one
who escaped her ire.
236
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,072
When did your dad pass away?
237
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,038
Er, 1991.
238
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,948
- How old was he?
- 57.
239
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,840
That sounds pretty young. Was he ill?
240
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,679
- Why do you ask?
- Just trying to fill in the gaps.
241
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,639
Well, no, he wasn't ill,
well, not physically, anyway.
242
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,230
He, erm, took his own life.
243
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,030
I'm sorry to hear that.
Do you mind if I ask how?
244
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,718
He hanged himself. Highgate Woods.
245
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,955
So did he have a history of depression
or mental illness?
246
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,479
What are you suggesting?
247
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,710
Did he?
248
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,469
No.
249
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,555
Right.
250
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,318
Do you know if your mum's at home?
251
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,869
Paxton?
252
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,399
Don't recall a Len Paxton,
before my time probably.
253
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,429
Really?
254
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:39,955
Sorry?
255
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,632
Well, no, it's just, erm...
256
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,635
Well, I found him with a simple
Google search, so.
257
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,673
What you asking me about him for then?
258
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,439
Because I wanna know what happened
to him after he left prison in 1988.
259
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,353
For assaulting two boys from a platoon
in Dumfries.
260
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,789
Look, this is all ancient history.
261
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,913
Do you know what?
I, I am getting
262
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,912
really pissed off with that expression
because it's just not.
263
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,716
The sort of things people
like Len Paxton did,
264
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,233
they're still affecting people today.
265
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,072
Catastrophically. It
266
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,351
fucks up whole lives. Okay?
267
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,154
So, unless you want me to come back
tonight when all the parents are here,
268
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,798
I'd start trying a little harder
to remember, if I were you.
269
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,509
He's dead.
270
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:37,429
When?
271
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,075
'92.
272
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:43,789
How?
273
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,431
He topped himself, everyone reckoned.
274
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,035
"Reckoned"?
275
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,317
He had this little yacht,
he used to take some of the lads out on.
276
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,355
It was found a few days
after he went missing,
277
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,635
drifting in open water
off Greenock Harbour.
278
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,193
They never found his body.
279
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,390
Although, I'm not sure
anyone looked too hard.
280
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,350
It's changed. We've changed.
281
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,154
People like him don't slip
through the nets anymore.
282
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,878
Well, I really hope so.
283
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,554
But they were saying that 30 years ago.
And 20. And 10.
284
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,756
And I just pray
285
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,071
that they won't be saying it 20 years
from now, about today.
286
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,272
Her father told me
what he'd found out
287
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:43,873
in the months after she ran away.
288
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,435
This was while she was still 13?
289
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,553
And being taken to parties
organised by men like Walker,
290
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,669
and raped.
291
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,471
Did he not report this?
Did he not go to the police?
292
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,115
Yes.
293
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,436
And, apparently, your lot told him
you couldn't do anything,
294
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,990
because it'd been her choice
to become a child prostitute.
295
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,231
A phrase it should be fucking illegal
to even use.
296
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,754
Oh, Jesus.
297
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,637
- You knew.
- No.
298
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,518
She told you. You knew.
299
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,318
I did not know.
300
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,829
She was always making things up, Elise.
301
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,196
Exaggerating everything.
302
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,475
Your father would never have done
the things that she said.
303
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,551
How old was she when she told you?
304
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,800
You tell me now
or I swear I'll...
305
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,069
Elise.
306
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,634
12.
307
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,714
My...
308
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,119
And you decided not to believe her
because... What?
309
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,238
You didn't wanna lose the house?
Or the research trips abroad?
310
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,469
Or because... What?
311
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,629
You're an evil fucking witch!
312
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,750
And we have wondered all our lives
why she is so angry?
313
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,390
I need you to tell me exactly
what Marion told you.
314
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,314
Please.
315
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,077
- What sort of a mother does that?
- I'm struggling to be charitable.
316
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,469
Well, Osborne's dad clearly had no idea.
317
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:01,993
Yeah, nor did Marion's sister.
318
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,071
I guess we've lost our element
of surprise.
319
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,479
I'm pretty sure all three of them
will know
320
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:06,675
the questions we've been asking now.
321
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,513
Which is why I want to get in front
of Colin and Marion today
322
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:10,999
while they're still on the back foot.
323
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,269
And ask them what?
324
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,918
Where they were
when their own abusers died.
325
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,595
Because if we're right, they'll have
absolutely watertight alibis.
326
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,593
Which both proves the theory,
and sort of screws us, evidentially.
327
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,319
What have we got from Murray?
328
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,754
So, he's spent all day trawling
NHS records.
329
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,630
Turns out that at various points in '87
and early 1988,
330
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,192
both Colin and Sara were under the care
of Ealing Hospital psychiatric unit.
331
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,838
- As in-patients?
- Yeah.
332
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,035
What about Marion?
333
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,918
We haven't located her
records yet, but here's a thing,
334
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,389
before she lived at her Smoke Lane flat,
335
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,074
from early '86 to late '87,
336
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,757
she lived in a flat in South Ealing.
337
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,236
So that's the link,
they met in Ealing Psychiatric Unit.
338
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,191
Well, this could be hard to prove,
339
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,077
but, yeah, it's gotta be a possibility,
isn't it?
340
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,555
Yeah.
341
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,198
You track down Colin.
I'll speak to Marion. Thanks, Sunny.
342
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,590
The train nowapproaching platform four
343
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,829
does not stop here.
344
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,753
Stand back from the edge
of platform four.
345
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,348
The next train is not scheduled
to stop.
346
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,429
Jason?
347
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,279
How are you doing?
348
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,594
Fancy a cuppa?
349
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,269
Yes.
350
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,399
Look, I know it's really annoying
351
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,074
when people give you trite bits
of advice on how to be happy,
352
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,119
but you don't have to be defined
by your past.
353
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,313
I had a horrible relationship split
a couple of years ago.
354
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,278
Then my mum died. And then my cat.
355
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,990
And I was really struggling.
And then I met this bloke.
356
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:37,398
I thought, "God, he's nice,
he's not like other blokes,
357
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,275
"I'd love to get to know him better."
358
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,469
And it showed me
that there was possibility. Ahead.
359
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,032
- Do you see?
- Yeah.
360
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:49,999
That life goes on, Jase.
361
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,270
Right. Yeah, well, thanks for that.
And good luck with the bloke.
362
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:59,350
No, Jase, the bloke's you.
363
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,115
- You what?
- It's you.
364
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,869
I like you.
365
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,392
- Really?
- Don't look so surprised.
366
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,393
It's just, erm...
367
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,036
No one's ever said that to me.
368
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,031
So what I wanted to say was,
shall we get that date in the diary?
369
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,755
- Marion, please. Don't go out now.
- I am fine. Honestly.
370
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,752
Please don't say anything
to Tony just yet,
371
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,558
'cause I need to speak
to him myself, okay?
372
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,510
- I'll be back in a couple of hours.
- I love you.
373
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,109
- I love you, too.
- And I am so, so, sorry.
374
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,674
- Sunny.
- Guv, Colin's not at his house.
375
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,713
His husband said he'd moved out for
a bit and was staying at a Holiday Inn,
376
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,233
but he's not there either.
377
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,631
- Right.
- You at Marion's yet?
378
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,035
Er, no, no. Not, not yet.
379
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:31,989
I'll call you.
380
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,956
They have no proof of anything, Marion,
and they never will have.
381
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,389
But they know.
382
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,876
But knowing something
and proving it in a court of law
383
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,473
are two very different things.
384
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,319
Yeah, they are.
385
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,589
Very different.
386
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,714
Marion.
387
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,515
Where are you running to? It's over.
388
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,909
So, I want to speak
to my husband now. Okay?
389
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,638
Now I want to explain.
390
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,357
Well, I was in Goa when Paxton
went missing.
391
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,591
Er, I have hotel and flights receipts.
I can prove I wasn't here.
392
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:28,908
I'm sure.
393
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,078
And when Marion's father died?
394
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,908
Can you prove you weren't
in Highgate Woods?
395
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,714
And did you meet them both
in Ealing Psychiatric Unit,
396
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,799
or just Sara?
397
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,150
I've read, er, people who've been abused
398
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,396
can always recognise other victims.
399
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,109
Something in the way
they carry themselves.
400
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,275
Was it that?
401
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,760
That drew you to each other?
402
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,790
So I guess now you pull
what you have together,
403
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,073
and present it to the CPS
404
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,956
and they may go for it
and you may be able to charge us.
405
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,197
But before you do, maybe I could just
give you some other facts?
406
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,508
Please do.
407
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,468
So...
408
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,152
He used to come 'round to our house
on Sunday nights,
409
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,713
mainly, for a roast dinner.
410
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,158
And he'd always find time
to play with me.
411
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,389
He'd pretend to be a horse
and I'd climb on his back
412
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,311
and then he'd buck and twist and turn,
413
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,791
and I was a cowboy at a bucking bronco
contest and I fucking loved him.
414
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:12,278
And when my dad found out that he ran
the local Club Rangers Platoon
415
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,796
and suggested that I join,
I could not have been happier.
416
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,308
And for six months it was the best time
of my life.
417
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,235
We played football and kick the can
418
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,029
and made fires in the woods
and bows and arrows, it was
419
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,638
Enid Blyton for real.
420
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,231
The first time it happened was when
we went camping for the weekend.
421
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,714
My tent was an old army
one of my granddad's
422
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,157
and when we started to put it up,
423
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,876
he said it wouldn't be any good
because it wasn't waterproof anymore
424
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,919
and it was gonna rain.
425
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,910
But that was okay he said,
because he had room in his tent.
426
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,719
That night he only gave me a massage
to help with the day's hike.
427
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,672
Er, the next night he touched me
and asked me to touch him.
428
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,712
It didn't rain that night, either.
429
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,678
I can spend a lifetime talking to you
about the shame
430
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,754
and guilt.
431
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,713
And how I thought I must have
actually wanted him
432
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,189
to do it because sometimes
I got an erection.
433
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,196
And how I couldn't tell Mum and Dad
because he was their friend
434
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,352
and I didn't want to upset them
or embarrass anyone.
435
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,314
And how I couldn't tell anyone else
436
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,550
because he said I'd be sent away
if I did.
437
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,559
But I do still ask myself,
every single day,
438
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,113
why didn't I tell someone?
439
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,072
Then over the next
440
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,239
six months,
441
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,232
on visits to our house
when my parents were out,
442
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,991
he did... He did things
443
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,388
which actually physically
damaged me for life.
444
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,114
Because a 48-year-old man is not meant
to put himself inside a 9-year-old boy.
445
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,834
But much worse than the physical damage
is the damage he did to me as a person.
446
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,552
Because that first time, he changed me,
instantly and forever.
447
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,470
The drinking, the rage,
448
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,759
the suicide attempts, the fighting,
the manic working.
449
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,353
The endless exhausting visceral rage
450
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,596
that I feel every day of my life,
451
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,558
that I feel right at this moment,
having to explain this to you.
452
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,871
That is all because of him.
453
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,598
So you might put me in prison.
But let me tell you this,
454
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,392
you can't judge me
unless you've had it done to you.
455
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,715
I won't ever, ever, let any one judge me
for what I did.
456
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,190
And just so you know,
what happened to Sara and Marion,
457
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,633
was much worse.
458
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,274
Hiya. You okay?
459
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,513
I need to tell you something.
460
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,758
For a while I wondered if he only took
the job in Cork because of the house.
461
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,518
Which meant that Elise and I
had our own rooms, finally.
462
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,476
First time, my mum was just downstairs,
463
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:56,438
she was watching The Onedin Line.
464
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,078
I could hear the theme music.
465
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,999
And he came in when my lights were out
and he knelt by my bedside.
466
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,591
And he said that I was growing up now,
467
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,509
becoming a young woman,
and that soon I'd have boyfriends.
468
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,035
And he wanted me
to be prepared for that.
469
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,154
He wanted to help me
470
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,112
so I knew how to enjoy it.
471
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,873
And then he put his hand
under the covers
472
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,991
and he did what a boyfriend might do.
473
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,114
And he did that
pretty much every Saturday night
474
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,077
when he was home, for about a year?
475
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,397
And then one day,
when I was having my tea,
476
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,959
I finally told my mum
477
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,272
that he did things to me
while she was downstairs.
478
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,839
And I remember she was...
She was peeling potatoes at the sink.
479
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,308
And she never even stopped.
480
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,676
She never turned to me,
she never said anything.
481
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,069
And five minutes later,
482
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,470
she told me to go back upstairs
and finish my homework.
483
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,520
And I wondered, at first,
if she hadn't been listening.
484
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,991
But then, that night,
she came upstairs and stayed there,
485
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,670
folding clothes and, and tidying
486
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,677
for an hour after I went to bed.
487
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,710
And, of course, he never came near me.
488
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,230
And she did that for about six months,
and then one day she just stopped.
489
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,116
And then when she
and my sister were out at the cinema,
490
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,553
a few weeks later,
491
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,753
he raped me for the first time.
492
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:46,870
And I remember I said to him, erm...
493
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,390
If he did the same to Elise
and he said no, no, it just me,
494
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:53,988
because I was special.
495
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,159
I was special.
496
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,112
And the anger, Tony, the anger
497
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,873
that I felt for so many years
and I still do...
498
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,750
In the end, it made me do
a terrible thing.
499
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:41,469
Hey.
500
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,509
Hiya.
501
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,154
How are you?
502
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:51,634
He sent me that.
503
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:54,869
Who did?
504
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,475
Him. Your mother's lover.
505
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,270
It's the letter she wrote telling him
why she was finishing with him.
506
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,639
How she realised that what we had
was what she wanted.
507
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,554
How terrible she felt
about what she'd done,
508
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,196
and how the affair made her realise
509
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,518
how much she loved me.
510
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,833
It's a good letter.
511
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,236
To read, Cass. For me.
512
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,110
It's very good for me to know that.
513
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,555
Mmm.
514
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,595
And you wouldn't have got it
if you hadn't have gone to see him, Dad.
515
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,040
- So you know, you were right.
- You.
516
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,278
Oh...
517
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,718
Listen, I've gotta make a quick call.
518
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,833
I love you, Dad.
519
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,034
Just, er...
520
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,679
I'll be quick.
521
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,116
- Sunny?
- Hey.
522
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,354
Can you meet me?
523
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,430
This case rests or falls on them
knowing each other.
524
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Without conclusive proof of that,
it is just a theory.
525
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,354
And they're not gonna confess.
526
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,277
And without any bodies,
it's gonna be very hard
527
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,032
to connect any of them to the deaths.
528
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,118
So I can't see the CPS being delirious
to press charges.
529
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,713
But we do have proof now.
530
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,715
You've just told me
you saw them together.
531
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,915
I saw them.
532
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:13,714
On my own.
533
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,559
CCTV? Or...
534
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,152
And they arrived separately.
535
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:23,749
Fuck.
536
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,112
Yeah. Fuck.
537
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,314
Well...
538
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,717
I guess, in the end, you have to
ask yourself the old question.
539
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,598
Why do we send people to prison?
540
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,394
And do Colin, Sara and Marion...
541
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,959
...need to be deterred
from committing murder again?
542
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,317
- No.
- No. I don't think so.
543
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,559
So, do they need to be rehabilitated?
544
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,195
I mean, for the last 20 years, at least,
545
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,189
I mean, they've all been very valuable
members of society.
546
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,876
All three of them.
I mean, helping the most vulnerable.
547
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,393
Which means,
548
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,028
in the end, it pretty much
comes down to punishment.
549
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,069
Do Colin, Sara and Marion
need to be punished?
550
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,755
And that's it, you see.Because for me,
551
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,715
I think their whole lives have been one,
long, indescribably brutal punishment.
552
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,677
And I just can't see
why we would punish them further.
553
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:42,914
I can't see who would benefit.
554
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,109
No. No. Nor can I.
555
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,194
Okay.
556
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,749
So...
557
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,309
This is
558
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,033
significant, Sunny. This is a pretty
fucking huge thing I would do here.
559
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,395
- Yeah? You?
- Mmm, yeah.
560
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,755
To be absolutely clear, this is just me.
561
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,308
You would never be implicated
in any decision I make.
562
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,597
But if you have a single shred of doubt,
please, you tell me now.
563
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,148
Tell me to go to Andrews
first thing tomorrow morning,
564
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,993
report everything,
tell him I saw them all, together.
565
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,190
I don't believe they could be charged,
566
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,229
and I see no point in disrupting
their lives further. So, no.
567
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,873
I won't tell you to do that.
568
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,468
You're all right, do you know that?
569
00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:59,873
You're not so bad yourself.
570
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,155
I'm gonna leave now,
before you try and snog me.
571
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:08,839
Smart move.
572
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,595
Night-night, Sunny.
573
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,795
Night, Guv.
574
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000
Ripped & Corrected By mstoll
March 2017
575
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,000
Ripped & Corrected By mstoll
Released on www.Addic7ed.com
45669
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