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I read somewhere that
there's one film
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that had more of an influence on you
than any other. Yeah.
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Schindler's List.
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Can you tell me about that
and the impact it had on you?
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00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,120
Well, Schindler's List
is a remarkable
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and important film in many
different respects,
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but the thing that impacted me
most was...
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..this...
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..concept of the camp commandant
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and the normality that
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in one sense he was living
with his girlfriend and all of that,
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and then just the sheer brutality
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that was being visited
upon the people.
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GUNSHOT
As this awful thing is happening,
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there are people just
standing about.
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You know, they're looking at it.
They're knowing it happens
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and they're not doing anything
about it.
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You cannot be a bystander -
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that has been a very important part
of my politics,
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and it can lead you
to right judgments
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and wrong judgments but it's,
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you know, it's not just your job
to look after your country,
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to look after the people around you,
it's also...
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You owe some responsibility
to the bigger world.
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BACKGROUND CHATTER
He's coming.
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It's June 2001.
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Tony Blair has just won a second
massive general election victory.
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Prime Minister, are you pleased
to be back in Downing Street?
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How does it feel? How does it feel?
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Public opinion loved him,
the press loved him,
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the unions were quiet.
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There were very few constraints on
his ability to do what he wanted.
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MIXED CHATTER
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I was the most senior civil servant
available to him,
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and inside, I was bearing the briefs
for incoming Prime Minister Blair,
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00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,920
and I said to him, "Prime Minister,
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"congratulations on this
amazing victory.
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"You should be very proud of it,
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00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,040
"you've worked for it for years
and you've done well.
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00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,120
"You are now at the moment of your
greatest moment of power.
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00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,000
"It's going to be up to you
to decide
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00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,840
"how do you use your power
and what to do with it."
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And he said, "Gosh, OK, right."
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The point I was making to him is,
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"You will never be this strong
again," and he took it in.
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The new US President George Bush
arrives at Chequers
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with congratulations
for Blair's latest victory.
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Blair is determined to build
a close relationship with
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the most powerful man in the world.
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00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,040
Tell me about Tony's relationship
with him
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and what you perceived of that.
How did it work?
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I can remember when we...
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Because obviously we knew Bill
and Hillary
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00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,800
even before Tony became
Prime Minister,
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00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:09,880
from when he became
Leader of the Opposition,
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and obviously we have similar
views in many ways.
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00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,000
Then, you know,
the Republicans come in
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with George Bush,
who we know nothing about.
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00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,600
And when I didn't know them,
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I was very apprehensive about,
did we have anything in common?
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00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,120
What I did know, and what Tony made
perfectly clear to me, is...
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..it was my duty
to make sure that we got on.
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00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,680
Over dinner, they discuss
the biggest threats to the world.
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00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,760
Bush outlines his plans for
a nuclear missile shield
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00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,920
to protect the United States
of America...
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00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,840
..though Cherie can't help
but point out a flaw in his plan.
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00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,120
I simply expressed the view that
it didn't really matter what you had
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00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,360
if you had an
individual who was determined,
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an individual terrorist, who was
determined to blow themselves up.
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You know, a nuclear shield, or a...
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Cannot really protect you.
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00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:25,600
Tony... Mr Blair...
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Two months on, Blair is in
Brighton, preparing to make
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00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,640
a major speech in support of
the Euro at the TUC conference.
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00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,240
We're in The Grand Hotel...
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..and we're in a room where
Tony was writing his speech.
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We were quiet. We were just getting
on with our own work
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because he didn't want any noise,
but we had the TV on over there.
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Have some very, very sketchy details
reaching us here at Sky Central
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that happened within
the last few moments.
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00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:04,640
He said, "Turn it off, Alastair."
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00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,760
He said, "Anji, go down
and keep an eye on it."
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00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:13,480
And as you can see,
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I don't know if you just saw
the plane flying by.
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There's another explosion.
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00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,400
Another plane.
We just saw a plane flying by...
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And we see the second plane go in...
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..and our Special Branch
jump up out of their chairs
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because they know this is not
an accident any more.
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APPLAUSE
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Bill, Congress.
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As Bill has just informed you...
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..there have been the most terrible,
shocking events taking place in
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the United States of America.
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00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,160
Delegates, I hope you will
understand,
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00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,440
I will now return to London.
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They're deciding how we should
travel back to London,
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00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,840
and they decided in the end
that it would be safer
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for us to go on a train,
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because if we were travelling in our
normal convoy,
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that's easily spotted from the air.
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00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,840
And I can remember Tony just
sitting there
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00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,280
with that look on his face,
that look I know so well,
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00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,840
and just staring out the window.
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00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,480
He had spent that summer reading
the Quran.
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00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,880
His mind would have been going
at 5,000 miles an hour.
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Tony wrote this long, long
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list of things we were going to
need to do when we got back.
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Protection around buildings,
airspace...
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Dozens and dozens and dozens
of things that we had to do.
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00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,240
When to speak to Bush,
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say that they'll be feeling like
Pearl Harbor,
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because they're not used
to being attacked like this -
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they'll be feeling like that.
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Bush will be under enormous pressure
to do things very, very quickly,
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and will be under pressure
to use this
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to take out all sorts of different
enemies around the world.
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OK, nice and calmly out the front
now, ladies and gents, please.
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Can you tell me why we're
being evacuated?
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00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,320
Can we go across the road?
Has there been a security alert?
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00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,360
I can't tell you at this time, OK?
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RICHARD: We got hold of Blair -
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he said, "Well, how are
the Americans going to react?"
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His immediate reaction,
without blinking.
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"How do we stop the Americans doing
anything stupid immediately?"
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00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,000
I was at Number 10 when the Prime
Minister arrived back from Brighton,
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and I saw this figure stride
very purposefully.
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And there was something in
the stride and the gait
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that said that he recognised
the world had changed.
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And he is a figure who, I think,
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always wanted to change history.
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This mass terrorism is
the new evil in our world.
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We therefore here, in Britain...
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..stand shoulder to shoulder
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with our American friends
in this hour of tragedy...
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..and we, like them...
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..will not rest until this evil
is driven from our world.
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The number of people missing in
the rubble
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of the World Trade Center
has jumped to 6,333.
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No-one has emerged alive
in more than a week.
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00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,000
Mr Blair? Mr Blair? Mr Blair?
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Days after 9/11,
Blair is in New York,
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heading to a service paying respect
to British victims.
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00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,320
It's important to recognise 9/11,
at the time,
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was this dramatic event.
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It was obvious
America was going to act,
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and it was obvious they were
going to act with a lot of force.
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If we weren't prepared to stand
with them at that moment,
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and in what they thought was their
moment of immense national peril,
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then if we ever had
a moment of national peril,
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why should they stand with us?
It wasn't just a moral question,
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it was primarily a question of,
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it was fundamentally in
Britain's national interest
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to be with America at this point.
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SIREN WAILS
I can only imagine what it must have
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been like for people in New York,
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but my father's generation
knew what it was like.
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They went through the blitz.
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00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,480
They know what it's like to suffer
this type of tragedy and attack...
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..and there was one country
and one people
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that stood by us at that time...
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..and that country was America,
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and those people were the
American people.
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And as you stood side by side
with us then,
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we stand side by side with you now.
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As it's established that
the mastermind behind the attacks,
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Osama Bin Laden,
is operating in Afghanistan...
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00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,520
CAMERA CLICKS
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..President Bush prepares to reveal
his response to the world.
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CAMERA CLICKS
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The President was going to give
an address to the nation
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and Prime Minister Blair said,
"I'm coming."
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And the President said,
"Tony, you don't have to do that."
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He said, "No, I have to do that.
I'm coming."
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And then the President said, "Do you
want to speak? Do you want...?"
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And he said,
"No, I Just want to be there."
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And he came.
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And I told the Prime Minister
that that was a moment when
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the special relationship
really felt special.
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00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:06,760
And on behalf of the
American people,
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00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,360
I thank the world for
its outpouring of support.
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00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,240
America will never forget the sounds
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00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,920
of our national anthem
playing at Buckingham Palace.
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America has no truer friend than
Great Britain.
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Thank you for coming, friend.
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00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,440
Our war on terror begins
with Al-Qaeda...
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..but it does not end there.
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Either you are with us,
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or you are with the terrorists.
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APPLAUSE
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ANJI: After we'd been to America,
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it had been agreed that Tony would
go on a sort of world tour,
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00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,200
making sure that everybody was
on board for taking on Bin Laden.
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00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,520
Tony Blair was the first
European leader
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to arrive in Brussels straight from
his session in Washington.
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The key tonight - a message of
unwavering support for America
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00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,240
for whatever she does
to strike back.
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00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,560
RICHARD WILSON: He did have
a very strong sense
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00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,920
of his own mission in the world,
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00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,440
and he wanted to reconcile
his ambition
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with what was morally right.
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We flew to Moscow,
where he went off on his own,
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much to our concern -
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00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,840
because we didn't like him going off
by himself -
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00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:49,040
to see Putin, and they played
billiards in Putin's dacha.
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00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:50,440
When we're battling something like
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the issue of international
terrorism,
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but also on many other issues too,
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00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,520
we need Russia there as
a partner and a friend.
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00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:08,200
Blair travels nearly 50,000 miles
on more than 30 flights.
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00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,560
He meets more than 50 world leaders,
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00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,040
each time trying to persuade them
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00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,800
to stand shoulder to shoulder
with America.
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00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,360
Some Arab countries,
they are quite apprehensive.
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00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,360
No western leader is on record
to say that
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00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,960
no Arab countries will be targeted.
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00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,880
Well, I think there are two
different phases to this action.
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The first phase is to deal with
Osama bin Laden, his network,
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00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,000
the Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan,
and these camps that are there,
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00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,240
where they're training literally
thousands of people
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to go out and export terror
right round the world,
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00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,040
including, incidentally,
in the Middle East.
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But then the second phase
is to say,
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well, what are the aspects
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00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,680
of international terrorism
that we need to deal with?
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00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,200
Again, you evaded the question.
227
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,120
You're not telling me whether
an Arab country is targeted,
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whether it's Iraq, Syria, or even
Iran or Sudan in the future.
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00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,200
But what I'm saying to you is that
no country is going to be targeted
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00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,800
unless there is evidence
that it is doing something wrong.
231
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,480
Well, with 9/11,
two things collided.
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00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,960
One was his closeness to America...
233
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,920
..and secondly,
this Manichean view of the world
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00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,720
as a struggle between good and evil,
and these two hit.
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00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:36,000
These were two very, very strongly
Christian-believing leaders
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00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,360
in a way that I can't think that
we've had before.
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And the fact that they were
going to launch
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00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,560
what is described in
the Middle East as a crusade
239
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,840
is a curious coincidence.
240
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,400
Does the fact that George Bush
and you are both Christians
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00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,640
make it easier for you to view these
conflicts in terms of good and evil?
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00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,200
I don't think so, no. I think that
whether you are a Christian
243
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,400
or you're not a Christian,
you can try and perceive
244
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,360
what is good and what is evil.
245
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,160
You don't pray together,
for example?
246
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,320
No, we don't pray together,
Jeremy, no.
247
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,920
Why do you smile?
248
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,080
Because why do you ask me
the question?
249
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:22,080
Because I'm trying to find out how
you feel about it, I mean... Yeah.
250
00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:24,840
MUFFLED LAUGHTER
Possibly.
251
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,240
To understand
Tony Blair's Christianity,
252
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,480
you have to go back to Oxford
University in the early 1970s.
253
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,560
Tony came up to Oxford,
he immediately made friends...
254
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,720
..and I remember
being in his room once
255
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,040
and there was a Bible
lying on the table,
256
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,800
and I said,
"Oh, are you reading that?"
257
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,600
He said, "Yes, I am."
258
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,720
"Are you going to church?"
I think I put it like that -
259
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,080
"Are you going to church?"
He said, "Yes."
260
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,360
And I didn't really discuss it
with him.
261
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,000
I'd always known that he...
262
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,080
There was a part of him,
a spiritual side to Tony.
263
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,240
In his second year at Oxford,
Blair is confirmed into the church
264
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:22,120
after meeting an older student -
Peter Thomson, an Australian priest.
265
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,400
PETER: We used to have these
marvellous discussions
266
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,160
that would go for hours -
you know, cigarettes and coffee.
267
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:36,320
And we'd get into religion
and politics as one.
268
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:38,880
He could have easily gone
into the church.
269
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,800
People often say that he speaks in
a kind of messianic way.
270
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,680
How do you feel about that?
271
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,560
He tends to preach a little bit.
272
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,440
I can understand what people
are saying about that,
273
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,840
in fact I don't see it that way.
274
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,320
I think he speaks in
a more prophetic way rather than
275
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,560
a philosophical or analytical way,
276
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,080
and it's about time politicians
started to do that.
277
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,920
Peter was probably the single
biggest influence in my life,
278
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,120
I should think,
279
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,520
and I still think about him
virtually every day.
280
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:18,880
That meant that my...
281
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,880
..Christianity and my politics
were linked, not in the way -
282
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,920
because whenever you talk about
religion and politics,
283
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,600
people can confuse it -
not in the sense that
284
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,520
I felt some political mission about
Christianity, as it were,
285
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,920
but if you're going to do politics,
286
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,720
do it for a reason that's bigger
than you,
287
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,400
that's got something to do
with belief.
288
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,800
Have you climbed up to the top?
Yes, I have, darling. Mm. Yes.
289
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,520
Meeting Peter really inspired Tony.
290
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,240
Talking to him about Christ as
a radical who fought for the poor,
291
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,000
who was engaged with the poor,
292
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,080
who fought for what was right,
293
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,920
I think was very much something
that appealed to Tony.
294
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,200
I mean, I think if you are
a person of faith,
295
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,960
it does shape your worldview.
296
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:16,000
The idea of your beliefs being
something that resulted in action
297
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,160
was what he brought
to my philosophy.
298
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,960
In other words,
your religious belief
299
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,760
wasn't something that shut
you away from the world,
300
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,800
but something that meant that you
had to go out and act.
301
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,400
CAMERA CLICKS, DISTANT APPLAUSE
302
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,320
Within a month of 9/11,
Blair sends British troops
303
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,120
to join the American-led war
in Afghanistan...
304
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,680
..and lays out his vision
for a new world order.
305
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:49,640
Out of the shadow of this evil
should emerge lasting good.
306
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,840
Whatever the dangers of
the action we take,
307
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,720
the dangers of inaction
are far, far greater.
308
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,600
To the Afghan people,
we make this commitment -
309
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,920
we will not walk away as
the outside world has done
310
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,920
so many times before there.
311
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,120
And I want to make it a fight
for justice, too.
312
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,480
Justice not only to punish
the guilty,
313
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,240
but justice to bring those same
values of democracy
314
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,600
and freedom to people round
the world.
315
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,760
ROBERT HARRIS: There was a sense
that he was an instrument of God
316
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,680
for goodness on the Earth...
317
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,760
..that there was a battle between
good and evil.
318
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,480
This seems to me a dangerous way for
any individual to live their life,
319
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,120
but for a politician,
it's quite dangerous
320
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,520
because the world doesn't really
divide in that Manichean way.
321
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,520
The war in Afghanistan begins.
322
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,880
Once again,
American bombs rained down on
323
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,080
the Taliban front line near Kabul.
324
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,040
The Taliban is quickly toppled,
but Bin Laden escapes.
325
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,120
One month on,
Blair flies into Afghanistan
326
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,040
under cover of darkness so as
to avoid potential missile fire.
327
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,240
MIXED CHATTER
328
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,720
As he greets the new Afghan leader,
329
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,680
Blair is told to stay
on the red carpet
330
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,040
as the airport hasn't yet been fully
cleared of land mines.
331
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,080
BAND PLAYS MUSIC
332
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,640
CHANTING
333
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,120
Many people were saying this action
was a mistake,
334
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,240
would be opposed by people
in Afghanistan,
335
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,200
that we would make
the situation worse,
336
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,440
that the whole of the region
would be destabilised.
337
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,840
Who would have guessed that today
we have come
338
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,480
a far greater distance than many
might have anticipated?
339
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,560
Thank you very much. Handshake?
Well, yes, plenty of that. Yeah.
340
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,920
Is that fine now?
341
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,920
I think, at that stage,
we all thought,
342
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,280
"This is great, Tony,
you're keeping everyone together."
343
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,480
We were proud of him,
and he did the right thing.
344
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280
And then Blair came out and said,
345
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760
"We're going to eliminate opium.
346
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,800
"It's the cause of all the heroin
addicts on the streets of Britain."
347
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,120
You can't just tell people who,
348
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,160
they grow that because that's the
only way to make a living,
349
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,720
that you're just
going to eliminate it,
350
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,320
you have to offer them a better life
and an alternative way.
351
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,360
And, of course, then he volunteered
that Britain would take on Helmand,
352
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,040
the most dangerous place
in Afghanistan.
353
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,520
And a lot of our soldiers lost their
limbs and so on,
354
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,240
and that was him being brave
with other people's bodies in a
355
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,400
not-very-well-thought-out way. So...
356
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,720
..this Blair that was
constraining America
357
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,000
and being sensible about post 9/11,
about Afghanistan,
358
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,840
then became the sort of
gung-ho militarist Blair
359
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,680
that didn't think things through
360
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,960
and made announcements
that weren't sensible.
361
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,800
And you began to lose faith.
362
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,000
Well, I mean, it's not faith,
you know.
363
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,320
He's not the Pope,
you don't say, you know...
364
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,240
But I became critical,
in my own head.
365
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,680
He was making mistakes.
It was going wrong.
366
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,640
It's April 2002.
367
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,920
Blair arrives at Crawford,
President Bush's ranch in Texas,
368
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,320
to discuss the next phase
in the war on terror.
369
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,400
Bush has plans to get rid of the
Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein.
370
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,280
Only that regime had actually used
weapons of mass destruction...
371
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,440
..and the link for the US was,
these terrorist groups,
372
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,200
if they managed to get hold of
weapons of mass destruction,
373
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,760
then instead of 3,000 people dying,
it'll be 30 or 300,000,
374
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,840
and therefore we've got to deal
with this issue.
375
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,280
And, you know, there's a lot of...
376
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,840
So much has been written
and talked about it,
377
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,320
but it really did start with that.
378
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,760
And for me there were
two considerations.
379
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,800
One, was it better to leave
Saddam or remove him,
380
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,880
for the security of the world? And
number two, be with America or not.
381
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,960
The situation with Saddam Hussein
and his weapons
382
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,920
is complex and murky.
383
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,400
It's known that, previously,
he'd gassed his own people.
384
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,560
The family living here had fled
to their cellar
385
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,800
when they heard
the first explosion.
386
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,160
They would have been unaware
that the lethal gases
387
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,560
would penetrate every part
of their home.
388
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,600
Bush and Blair now fear his weapons
of mass destruction
389
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,960
could end up in
the hands of terrorists.
390
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000
He claims he no longer has these
weapons, but is he lying?
391
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,560
CAMERAS CLICK
392
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,480
We'll see everybody tomorrow.
393
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,720
Mr President, will the secretary...?
394
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,280
As I said, we'll see you tomorrow.
Sounds good.
395
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,800
I know you can't wait
and neither can I.
396
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,720
THEY LAUGH
OK.
397
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,840
And neither can
the Prime Minister for that matter.
398
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,840
How you doing, Ari? Good, sir.
399
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,880
You're looking just like a cowboy.
400
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000
TOM: President George Bush himself,
401
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,120
Iraq was not just a global issue,
402
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,400
but a personal issue because they'd
tried to kill his father.
403
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:38,800
And George Bush
is someone who holds a grudge,
404
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,520
takes things personally.
405
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,880
And President Bush
is someone who puts
406
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,480
an awful lot of weight
on personal relationships.
407
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,320
The Prime Minister recognised that,
408
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:02,800
and therefore the best
strategy in influencing
409
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,880
President Bush's response
410
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,040
was be seen to be supportive
to President Bush.
411
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,760
We used to sit there, and
412
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,440
Tony and George Bush used to go
for a walk...
413
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,080
..and you could see Bush's
people hated it. They hated it. Why?
414
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,120
Well, because they'd come back
an hour later or whatever -
415
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,320
having wandered around the woods -
416
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,480
they'd come back and, you know,
President Bush would say,
417
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,360
"So this is where Tony
and I have got to,"
418
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,800
and Cheney and Rumsfeld were
always horrified probably!
419
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,800
You know, they were just like,
"But that wasn't the plan.
420
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,320
"That's not where this is supposed
to be."
421
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,800
So an awful lot of politics,
in the end,
422
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,560
is about people and relationships,
423
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,080
and ultimately, that's the way that
you get movement from leaders.
424
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,640
Good morning.
425
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,640
We appreciate the rain that the
Prime Minister brought with him.
426
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,040
SOME LAUGHTER
And so do the other farmers
427
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,600
and ranchers in the area, Prime
Minister, thanks for bringing it.
428
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,000
My pleasure, George.
429
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,680
The Prime Minister and I, of course,
talked about Iraq.
430
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,440
I explained that
the policy of my government is
431
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,440
the removal of Saddam
432
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,440
and that all options are on
the table.
433
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,840
I can say that...
434
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,480
..any sensible person looking at
the position
435
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,760
of Saddam Hussein
and asking the question...
436
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,840
..would the region, the world,
437
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,200
and not least the ordinary
Iraqi people...
438
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,080
..be better off without
the regime of Saddam Hussein?
439
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,640
The only answer anyone could give
to that question would be yes.
440
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,360
John Sergeant, ITN.
441
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,960
Yes. John Sergeant, ITN.
442
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,840
Fine lad. Prime Minister,
443
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,120
we've heard the President say what
his policy is directly about
444
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,480
Saddam Hussein,
which is to remove him -
445
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,840
that is the policy of
the American administration.
446
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,160
Could I ask you whether that is now
447
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,640
the policy of
the British Government?
448
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,120
Well, John, you know,
it has always been our policy
449
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,240
that Iraq would be a better place
without Saddam Hussein.
450
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,000
Maybe I should be
a little less direct
451
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,280
and be a little more nuanced
452
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,320
and say we support regime change.
453
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,360
It's certainly the policy
of my administration, and...
454
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,560
..I think regime change sounds
a lot more civil, doesn't it?
455
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,840
Yeah.
What Europeans have a problem with
456
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,960
about expanding any war on terror
to Iraq is linkage.
457
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,760
They can see a linkage between
Al-Qaeda and Afghanistan,
458
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,080
they can't see a
direct linkage to Saddam Hussein.
459
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,080
Would you accept that there isn't
a direct linkage and how, therefore,
460
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,080
do you make the moral case? First
of all, I wouldn't accept that,
461
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880
but can't they see linkage between
somebody who's willing
462
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,280
to murder his own people...
463
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,400
..and the danger of him possessing
weapons of mass destruction?
464
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,200
The thing I admire about this
Prime Minister is he doesn't need
465
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,640
a poll or a focus group
to convince him
466
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,840
the difference between right
and wrong.
467
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,120
Thank you all. Thank you. Good job.
468
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,160
So, after Crawford, Blair
writes Bush a letter which begins,
469
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,960
"I will be with you..."
"I will be with you, whatever."
470
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,720
What does it say?
"I will be with you, whatever."
471
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,520
I saw it.
I saw the day it went, yeah.
472
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,320
It was not his best moment...
473
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,280
..and...
474
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,720
..I don't know quite
to this day why he sent it.
475
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,680
The ambiguity in his relationships,
476
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,360
which he brilliantly used
to good effect
477
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,880
as he did over the
Good Friday Agreement,
478
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,120
could also lead people to drawing
from what he was saying,
479
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,400
what they wanted to hear.
480
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,680
And my anxiety was that this
would be seen as
481
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,320
a kind of blank cheque
by the United States,
482
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,200
and that the consequence of that
483
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160
would be that our leverage
would be reduced.
484
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,360
You know, people just put
far too much emphasis
485
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,840
on the precise wording.
486
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,560
George... Hang on, you're a lawyer -
you know the importance of words.
487
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,400
Yeah, I know, of course,
the importance of words...
488
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,800
Didn't that commit you to a slippery
slope that you couldn't get off?
489
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,480
No, of course not.
490
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,600
I was actually trying
to persuade the Americans
491
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,920
to do something different, right?
492
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,480
I wanted us to go through
a UN process,
493
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,440
I wanted to try and rally the world
as far as possible.
494
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,720
I thought it was possible that we
might get Saddam
495
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,280
to agree to the conditions
that we wanted,
496
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,160
and I knew it was important...
497
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,920
..that President Bush felt I was
with him on the essential issue.
498
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,320
But would there have been anything
that the Americans had proposed
499
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,880
or even done that would have
made you withdraw that support?
500
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,720
Well, if they hadn't gone through
the UN process
501
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,160
it would have been extremely
difficult for us, but they did.
502
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,000
Was that a commitment that we were
going to do
503
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,800
whatever the Americans wanted?
Of course not.
504
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,240
But I was going to be
with them in dealing with Saddam
505
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,080
because I believed that was
necessary and I still do.
506
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,160
Blair persuades Bush not
to invade Iraq straight away...
507
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,320
On behalf of the General Assembly,
508
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,960
I have the honour to welcome to the
United Nations, Mr George W Bush.
509
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,840
APPLAUSE
510
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,840
..but to use the UN to give
Saddam an ultimatum -
511
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,000
give up any weapons
of mass destruction you have
512
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,800
and let inspectors in
to look for them,
513
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,960
or face the consequences.
514
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,880
We've accomplished much
in the last year,
515
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,880
in Afghanistan and beyond.
516
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,040
We have much yet to do
in Afghanistan and beyond.
517
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,640
Back home,
Blair is under growing pressure
518
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,840
to show that Iraq is
an imminent threat to the world.
519
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,280
Can you, here, today,
offer one piece of evidence
520
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,840
that action is necessary?
521
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,720
Well, one piece of evidence is
that they're in breach of...
522
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,560
..23 of the demands
that the UN has made
523
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,040
in respect of their weapons -
524
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,760
chemical, biological
and nuclear weapons.
525
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,080
The Americans, in raising
this issue, are not wrong,
526
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,720
and the reason why our place is
beside them
527
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,240
is not because of some misplaced
allegiance
528
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,840
or because of blind loyalty,
529
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,800
it's because it's the
right thing to do.
530
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,840
RICHARD: His commitment to America
and to being with America
531
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,080
was much stronger than
I had understood,
532
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,480
and I went to see him...
533
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,680
..and I said to him,
534
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:53,600
"I am very worried about
what you're doing on Iraq.
535
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,960
"My advice to you
536
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,920
"is you should only go into Iraq
if you have evidence
537
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:04,600
"of the weapons, and support
of the United Nations."
538
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,200
"Oh, Richard," he said,
539
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,240
"Don't worry, I'm not going to do
anything stupid."
540
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,320
"We can buy off the Russians,
they need money.
541
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,880
"The Germans will be onside.
542
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,600
"The French will be difficult
at the last minute,
543
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,280
"but they'll give in.
It'll be all right."
544
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,240
I think he wanted
to carry his dream further in Iraq.
545
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,240
I think he thought he would end up,
you know,
546
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,760
with a very popular invasion,
the fall of a much-hated tyrant...
547
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,280
..people throwing flowers
over the troops.
548
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,480
He could go back to the issue which
still was absolutely in his mind,
549
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,520
and which he wanted, which was
membership of the Euro,
550
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,760
that we would enter the Euro,
551
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,240
we would have a bridge across
the Atlantic to Bush,
552
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,720
who'd be grateful to him,
553
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,920
and he'd be in a very powerful
position in the world.
554
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,760
That was the ambition, that was the
dream, that was the inner vision.
555
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,000
Blair is seeing MI6 intelligence
that suggests
556
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,480
that Saddam Hussein does have
weapons of mass destruction.
557
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,560
Blair now gets his Director
of Communications,
558
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,240
Alastair Campbell,
to go to MI6 and the spies
559
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,520
to help them present their evidence.
560
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,240
What about the criticism, though,
561
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,440
that it was presented with
a certainty that it didn't warrant?
562
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,960
Well, listen, I understand
563
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,400
lots of people made that criticism.
564
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,280
What some people in
the intelligence community will say
565
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,560
is that you can never be certain,
but I would argue
566
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,000
there was an ultra-caution
567
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,560
to the whole thing.
568
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,000
To have the chief spin doctor
of a government helping to edit
569
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,000
and tinker with
an intelligence dossier,
570
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,840
I think it's just beyond the pale.
571
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,200
The whole Blairite obsession
with spin,
572
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,680
of which Alastair Campbell
was the prima donna,
573
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:13,440
led to a dossier that was false,
hyped up and inaccurate.
574
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Yes, you can set it against
what's followed,
575
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,680
and the failure to find the weapons
of mass destruction programme,
576
00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,400
and say, "Well, that was bullshit,"
577
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,600
but based upon the intelligence
578
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,040
and the assessment of intelligence
that was going into that document,
579
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,600
I certainly don't accept
the charge of deception,
580
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,760
and I don't accept even that
we exaggerated.
581
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,320
Long delayed, much anticipated,
582
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,640
the dossier had journalists
sprinting to deliver its message -
583
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,800
Iraq's weapons threaten
the world's stability.
584
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,960
His missiles could hit Cyprus.
585
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,480
An attack could be 45 minutes away.
586
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,240
CLARE: I think he
made up his mind early on
587
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,560
that he was going with America
588
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,800
and it was a question of how
to manipulate his way through.
589
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,120
I'm sure he thought he was doing it
for a good cause...
590
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,400
..but, you know, human frailty
says we can all do that -
591
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,640
convince ourselves that we did it
for the right reasons.
592
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,080
Are we going to war, Prime Minister?
593
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,120
TOM: We didn't have black-and-white
evidence to present to the public...
594
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,920
..so what we had
to present was our judgment.
595
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,960
Not just the material
contained in the dossier,
596
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,000
but also the material he'd seen
over years.
597
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,240
But he himself said that his views
598
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,680
were based on a conviction,
599
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:45,800
a belief that that was the case.
600
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,200
Ark Royal heads the biggest
task force
601
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,320
deployed since the Falklands War.
602
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,280
It's January 2003,
603
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,960
and British forces are headed
to the Middle East.
604
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,280
Bit worried and nervous about my dad
and hope he's gonna be all right.
605
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,920
In the last two months,
606
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,800
UN inspectors have found no weapons
of mass destruction in Iraq...
607
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,640
..but Blair is convinced
Saddam Hussein
608
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,240
is giving them the run-around...
609
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,760
..and now Blair's facing growing
opposition to the prospect of war.
610
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,880
I was on a speaking tour
of Muslim countries
611
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,560
about why we all needed
to sort of come together.
612
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,480
The reaction I got
was pretty darn strong.
613
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,480
People questioned our motives.
614
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,880
I came back,
615
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,760
we sat outside on the
terrace at Number 10,
616
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,440
and I said, "Look, you know, I'm
worried here that the Arab world,
617
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,400
"the Muslim world, will feel that
this is some sort of fresh
618
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,000
"sort of crusaders that
we're embarking on here.
619
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,680
"You know, there could be, if we
played it wrongly,
620
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,280
"quite a backlash."
621
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,880
He was not really convinced -
622
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,240
said I'd been spending far too long
with the wrong people.
623
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,880
Sometimes with Tony...
624
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,960
..he thinks that leadership is
so important
625
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,600
and being decisive is so important
626
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,160
that he sometimes becomes
627
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,800
a little tin-eared, you know,
to what other people are saying.
628
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,480
You know, "Careful here."
"Think of that."
629
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,000
"Bring this into the balance
a bit more."
630
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,160
And that's what I felt at the time.
631
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,200
CAR HORN BEEPS
632
00:40:58,240 --> 00:40:59,920
Marching through the streets
of London...
633
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,480
WHISTLE PEEPS, CHANTING
..sending a message to Tony Blair
634
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,600
and George W Bush -
"Not in my name."
635
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,360
ALL: Don't attack.
Don't attack Iraq.
636
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,000
Don't attack. Don't attack Iraq.
637
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,400
When you think of Tony Blair,
638
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,120
what words spring to mind?
639
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,080
I think he's a man in denial,
actually.
640
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,360
On the day of the march...
641
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,960
..it was quite emotional.
642
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,680
I thought, "Wow,
we've mobilised these people.
643
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,840
"Can the political establishment
ignore this?"
644
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,720
They just felt so angry that their
country was going to war
645
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,440
without their approval.
646
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,760
CHANTING AND CHEERING
647
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,880
It's the scale of the protest
that is unprecedented -
648
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,920
a million people.
649
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,520
It's the biggest rally ever
on British soil.
650
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,880
Thousands more deaths in Iraq
will set off
651
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,440
a spiral of conflict, of hate,
of misery, of desperation,
652
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,760
that will fuel the wars,
the conflict, the terrorism,
653
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,120
the depression, and the misery
of future generations.
654
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,960
CHEERING
655
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,120
CHERIE: You could hear the protests
in 10 Downing Street.
656
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,920
PROTESTORS: Don't attack.
Don't attack Iraq.
657
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,640
Don't attack. Don't attack Iraq.
658
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,600
It was a very strange time.
659
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,960
I think it was hard for my children
to come in every day,
660
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,520
and people were standing there
calling their father
661
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,080
a murderer and a liar.
662
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,280
I don't know what I would have felt
if I was...
663
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,840
..out there rather
than in 10 Downing Street,
664
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,760
but what I did know was that when
Tony said,
665
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,160
as he absolutely believed,
666
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,320
that Saddam Hussein had
these weapons of mass destruction,
667
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,200
he told me that was the case.
668
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:14,520
I absolutely know that that's what
he thought was true.
669
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,000
WHISTLES PEEP
670
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,000
ALASTAIR CAMPBELL: The morning of
the big protests,
671
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,000
we were in Scotland.
672
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,920
He said that morning
he'd not slept.
673
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,000
He said that he was feeling...
674
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,320
..worried.
APPLAUSE
675
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,000
I think he felt frustrated.
676
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520
A lot of the things that
Saddam Hussein had done in the past
677
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,160
were just sort of being
pushed aside.
678
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,120
Not least his use
of chemical weapons,
679
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,080
not least the torture chambers,
not least the executions -
680
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,680
all the stuff that he did.
681
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,160
That didn't really have a big enough
space within the public debate.
682
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,760
And I do remember meetings that
he had with Iraqis
683
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,400
who were really pushing him,
684
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,000
saying, "I know how difficult it is,
you've got to keep going.
685
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,840
"What we have lived with is
an abomination."
686
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,200
Ridding the world of Saddam
would be an act of humanity.
687
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:25,000
It is leaving him there
that is inhumane.
688
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,800
Did anything, though,
give you pause for thought? Yeah!
689
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,720
A million people on the streets,
Nelson Mandela...
690
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,840
Yeah, of course! All of... But you
see, in the end, the problem,
691
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,600
and it's one of the things you
learn about leaders and leadership,
692
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,240
is that ultimately you sit in
the seat,
693
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,440
you've got to take the decision,
694
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,160
and, you know,
you've got to stand by it.
695
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,880
WHISTLES PEEP, HORNS BEEP
696
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,240
ALASTAIR CAMPBELL:
How did it affect him?
697
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,080
I think it made him more
conscious...
698
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,600
..of the need to keep trying
to explain why he was doing it.
699
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,040
Did it ever cause him to doubt
the doing of it?
700
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,640
Not that I saw. Not that I saw.
701
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,560
Blair doesn't waver,
702
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,680
but he agrees with his team
to embark on a new media strategy.
703
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,800
Well, I mean
the masochism strategy -
704
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,960
I would say that was
the period when he was
705
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,080
most fed up with the team,
706
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,160
because we were sending him forth
707
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,520
to see, largely, kind of,
mothers of service people
708
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,520
who'd lost their lives or
lost their limbs or whatever,
709
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:40,920
and it was grim.
710
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,560
And it was really grim, but we
felt he had to talk to them.
711
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,120
He had to be seen to talk to them.
712
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,960
You said that you were really keen
to go down the UN route,
713
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,360
but quite clearly,
you don't give a stuff.
714
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,800
We're going to go to war anyway,
that's what we all feel.
715
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,600
Well, why did I go through
the United Nations last year, then?
716
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,280
I don't know, a fig leaf perhaps.
Well, how is it a fig leaf?
717
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,080
I've got to get the agreement
of those other countries.
718
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,000
But you're not going to now, are
you? You're going to do it anyway.
719
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,440
No, I'm not saying
I'm going to do it anyway.
720
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,120
You're still prepared to risk all
the good work that you've done
721
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,280
on this one issue.
722
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,800
Well, Debra...
In the days before the invasion,
723
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,000
he's questioned by a mother
whose son was killed on 9/11.
724
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,880
I lost my only child
725
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,880
in the World Trade Center.
726
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,760
Now, for the last 18 months,
my pain has been unbearable.
727
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,560
You are a man that has come across
as a genuine man,
728
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,960
a family-orientated man,
729
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,200
a man who's not only a Christian,
but a church-going Christian.
730
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:45,000
Now, to me, Mr Blair,
what you're going to do -
731
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,200
and I'm sure you're going to it,
you and Mr Bush -
732
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,840
you're going to go
and now bomb Iraq?
733
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,240
You don't know how many people like
me that's going to suffer so much.
734
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,840
How many innocent victims are you
going to kill?
735
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,360
And how many people are
736
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,760
going to suffer like I've suffered?
APPLAUSE
737
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,400
But on the...
No, Mr Blair, don't do it.
738
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,720
I'm doing it because I think
it's the right thing to do,
739
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,840
and I hope, even at this stage,
we can avoid conflict, actually.
740
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,640
But if this goes badly, you're
finished, really, aren't you?
741
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,240
Well, let's wait and see,
Trevor, shall we, about that?
742
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,920
As to whether it goes badly.
Thank you. Thank you.
743
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,520
While the diplomats
discuss deadlines,
744
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,080
the American and British troops
are ready and waiting for war.
745
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,840
With America ready to attack,
Blair is on a mission.
746
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,720
He wants world leaders
to sign another UN resolution,
747
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,840
giving a clearer authorisation
for war.
748
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,160
I remember talking to
President Mubarak at the time.
749
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,120
He said, "I trained as an
air force pilot in Baghdad,
750
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,840
"I know what the Iraqis are like,
751
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,000
"and your invasion of Iraq
will create not one,
752
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,360
"but 100 Bin Ladens."
753
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,280
What surprised me even more
was my American counterpart,
754
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,160
who was a good friend,
obviously, David Welch,
755
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,080
saying to me very privately,
756
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,040
"John, your service and our services
757
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,080
"have been looking for this
WMD for the last ten years.
758
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,240
"The Russians and the French -
we've all been looking for it
759
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,720
"and we haven't found it.
Maybe there isn't any."
760
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,720
Everyone agrees Saddam is a threat,
761
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,600
everyone agrees that he
must be disarmed,
762
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:42,880
otherwise he poses a real danger...
763
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,880
But it soon becomes clear
that Jacques Chirac,
764
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,160
the French President, is a problem.
765
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,800
Privately, he had given Blair
some personal advice.
766
00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,760
He said, "If you go to war in Iraq,
in the future
767
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,240
"you will not be able to look
your baby son Leo in the eye."
768
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,880
With Chirac against,
the UN resolution cannot pass...
769
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,200
..so Blair has to decide
770
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:20,880
whether to go ahead
with America or change course.
771
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,440
Before taking the decision,
he has a secret meeting
772
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:33,080
with an old friend at his country
retreat, Chequers.
773
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,600
I felt terrible for him because...
774
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,960
..he had established
a good relationship with Bush.
775
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,800
He realised that he couldn't
get what he tried to do,
776
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,080
which is a brief extension
of the deadline...
777
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,120
..so that all the inspections
could be completed.
778
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,400
The Bush administration
was ready to go to war
779
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,080
and thought it was important,
780
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,920
and the rest of
the world disagreed with them -
781
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,360
almost everybody did.
782
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,640
So when you're caught
in the middle...
783
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,760
..and you want to maintain
your unique relationship
784
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,320
with the United States,
785
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:22,160
and you want to support
European unity, not take it apart...
786
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:26,920
..you wind up...
787
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,600
..taking the best of two
unattractive alternatives.
788
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,080
I didn't believe it was...
789
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,320
..critical to our position
in the world,
790
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,200
our credibility
in the war on terror,
791
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:45,080
all that kind of stuff -
I didn't believe that.
792
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,760
So he was in a pickle, and...
793
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,000
..he did what he thought
was right...
794
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,440
..and I think he still thinks he did
the right thing.
795
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:00,720
Do you?
796
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,960
I don't know what I would have done
under the circumstances
797
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,800
if I'd been
Prime Minister of the UK.
798
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,120
SALLY: I think he was incredibly
disappointed
799
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,440
because he really had fought
for a second resolution,
800
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,960
but in the end, he still
felt he had to take the decision.
801
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,760
And he said, "I am going
to press ahead with this.
802
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,440
"But if you're not... You, Sally,
you and any number of people
803
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,440
"don't think that's right and don't,
you know, don't want to do that,
804
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,000
"I would completely
understand that."
805
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,440
CHERIE: So many decisions
as Prime Minister are 50/50.
806
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,240
You have to choose.
807
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,800
But once Tony has chosen, he's...
808
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,760
..very skilled at making people
think that
809
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,120
obviously it was never 50/50 -
that was the obvious choice...
810
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,200
..and it stems from his strength of
character and his belief in himself.
811
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,320
Is there sometimes, though,
a danger of overconfidence?
812
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,040
I'm a great believer in confidence.
813
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,640
Blair now stakes everything
on a vote on the war in parliament.
814
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,440
If he loses, he'll resign.
815
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,080
JEREMY: We had the final meeting
of those of us who were
816
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,000
strongly opposed
to military action in Iraq.
817
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,920
I said,
"Very short, very simple, Tony...
818
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,360
"..why are we doing this?"
819
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:38,680
"Jeremy, understand this -
820
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:41,840
"we're doing this because
it's the right thing to do."
821
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,560
And then left the room.
822
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,960
I think he invested so much in it.
823
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,600
There'd been such
a build-up of troops in the area,
824
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,080
he felt, at that point,
he couldn't just back off.
825
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,120
I think he'd got himself
into a messianic trench.
826
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,600
He was going to do it.
827
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,560
CHANTING
828
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,440
The stakes could barely be higher.
829
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,840
The Prime Minister warning his party
he will not want to lead it
830
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,520
if they do not back the war.
831
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:19,640
There was the concern that maybe
Blair's government would go down.
832
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,320
The calls at that point
with the President
833
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,160
became about whether
or not it was worth it
834
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,360
for Prime Minister Blair
to take a vote
835
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,600
and possibly collapse
his government,
836
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:39,760
or would there be some other way
for Britain to be involved?
837
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,640
PROTESTORS CHANT
838
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,760
CHERIE: He was very conscious
that this could mean
839
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,160
that he would no longer
be Prime Minister...
840
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:56,400
..and that it would mean
a huge disruption for our family.
841
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,360
And so he did sit down
the three oldest ones,
842
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:04,760
who had been affected at school -
because they're teenagers by now -
843
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,360
and obviously in our home -
844
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,240
because they were aware of
the debate that was going on -
845
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,440
that we might all have to move out
by the end of the week
846
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,000
if he lost the vote.
847
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,960
The decision you made
to join them in war in Iraq -
848
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,000
did you have any doubts about it?
849
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:27,680
Look, I knew it was gonna be
immensely difficult, and...
850
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,320
..that's why I tried
to avoid it for a long time.
851
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:34,840
Even up until the very last minute,
852
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,840
I was trying to find
a way that we could maybe secure
853
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,000
the removal of Saddam
a different way -
854
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,440
that you could organise it
differently, do it differently -
855
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,120
but in the end it was impossible
856
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,440
and so you come to the crunch point
and it's this or it's that,
857
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,680
you've got to decide where you
stand, and that's where I stood.
858
00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:00,280
Blair is about to face the biggest
parliamentary vote of his life.
859
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,480
We now come to the main business -
the Prime Minister.
860
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,480
ALL: Hear, hear!
861
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,040
This is a tough choice indeed -
862
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,520
to stand British troops down
now and turn back,
863
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,880
or to hold firm to
the course that we have set,
864
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,080
and I believe passionately we must
hold firm to that course.
865
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,440
MIXED CHATTER
866
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,760
Confidence is the key to prosperity,
867
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,120
and insecurity spreads
like contagion.
868
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,120
The key today is stability
and order,
869
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,640
the threat is chaos and disorder.
870
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,520
I've written quite a lot of novels
about prime ministers and wartime.
871
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,880
British prime ministers
traditionally tried
872
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,360
to keep us out of wars.
873
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,680
This is the only time that
I can think of that we've had
874
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:53,120
a very articulate former lawyer
advocating a war,
875
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,160
trying, in effect, to sell it
to the House of Commons,
876
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,680
his party and the country.
877
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:01,240
This is extraordinary
and unprecedented.
878
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,800
And all the talents one observed in
Tony Blair that one warmed to
879
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,080
and admired were turned into,
what seems to me,
880
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,440
to have been a much darker purpose.
881
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,360
I beg to move the motion.
882
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,760
MIXED YELLING
883
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:16,960
Order!
884
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,360
Order.
885
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,880
Blair wins,
886
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,280
and in less than 36 hours,
the war will begin.
887
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,280
Robert Harris told us that Iraq
was the only time he could think of
888
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,480
that a British Prime Minister
had persuaded
889
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,160
the House of Commons to go to war.
890
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:39,800
What do you think about that?
891
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,840
Well, it hadn't always been
the tradition
892
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:48,080
that you put these things to a vote
in the House of Commons, but we did.
893
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,280
But it was... The essence is that
it was a war of choice,
894
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,520
not of necessity.
Well, that's a matter of opinion.
895
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,320
You know, it depends on what
you think is necessary at the time.
896
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,320
I mean, all wars are wars of choice.
897
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,640
In a sense, you can say,
"I choose to do it,"
898
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,080
"I choose not to do it," but...
899
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,000
Well, Churchill
didn't have a choice.
900
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,640
Well, there would have been people
at the time who said he did,
901
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,000
but fortunately,
he made the right choice.
902
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,680
BILL: After he did it,
903
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,200
you can't fool around with this.
904
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,720
If you send troops into harm's way,
you got to win.
905
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,920
And so a lot of people were
offended that he seemed
906
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,680
so determined during
the course of the Iraq conflict,
907
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,960
but if you're going to do something
like that, you have to try to win.
908
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,080
LOUD BANG
909
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:51,000
Blair and Bush broadcast directly
to the Iraqi people.
910
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,920
This is George W Bush.
At this moment,
911
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,520
the regime of Saddam Hussein
is being removed from power,
912
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,720
and the future of your country
913
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,320
will soon belong to you.
914
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,840
LOUD RUMBLE
915
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,000
Our enemy is Saddam and his regime,
not the Iraqi people.
916
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,400
Our forces are friends...
917
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,800
..and liberators of the
Iraqi people, not your conquerors.
918
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,760
So, it is in the spirit
of friendship...
919
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:37,520
..and goodwill
that we now offer our help.
920
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:38,760
Thank you.
921
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,480
JOHN: I was in Cairo and
Number 10 called me
922
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,680
and said, "We need someone
on the ground in Baghdad.
923
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,520
"The Prime Minister's concerned
about level of grip on the ground.
924
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,040
"Could you please go there?"
925
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,080
I arrived -
it was complete disorder.
926
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,200
YELLING AND CHEERING
927
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,080
Saddam is swiftly removed
from power...
928
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,520
..but in Baghdad, crime and looting
become widespread.
929
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,840
Revenge attacks between Iraqis
are common.
930
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,640
GUNFIRE
931
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,360
GUNFIRE
932
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,320
It was total chaos.
933
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,480
No real planning
had gone into the aftermath.
934
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,360
The Americans were sitting,
hunkered down in their tanks
935
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:46,760
and armoured vehicles
936
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,400
with reflective sunglasses
and heavy helmets on
937
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,720
with no engagement
with the Iraqi people at all.
938
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,120
They just assumed that once
American forces had toppled Saddam,
939
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:58,600
then the Iraqi exiles would come in,
940
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,600
take over and everything
would be hunky-dory.
941
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,600
Well, it turned out to be completely
different from that.
942
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,080
GUNFIRE
943
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,080
Soon after Saddam
is removed from power,
944
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,920
Blair arrives in
the Iraqi city of Basra,
945
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,520
where British troops are in control.
946
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,320
The streets of Basra may be filled
with rubbish,
947
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,000
but it's in the water
that the real problem lies.
948
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,000
Doctors here have identified
the symptoms of cholera
949
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:28,920
in at least 17 people.
950
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,560
WOMAN SPEAKS ARABIC
951
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:44,880
# Twinkle, twinkle, little star
952
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,720
# How I wonder what you are
953
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,480
# Up above the world so high
954
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,320
# Like a diamond in the sky. #
955
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,400
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
956
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,560
MIXED CHATTER
957
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,760
Obviously,
Blair wanted to come to Iraq
958
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,920
because he'd invested so much in it.
959
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,160
Thank you! You OK? Yeah?
960
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,080
Of course, Basra was not Baghdad -
961
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,000
it was in much better shape
than Baghdad was.
962
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,400
CHILDREN CHANT AND CLAP
963
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,280
But the military briefings we had
at the time were worrying
964
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,880
because there was
a clear rise of violence,
965
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,280
even in Basra, let alone in the
rest of the country.
966
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,520
We were trying to get some police
training going,
967
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,800
which would take, sort of,
six months to get
968
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,080
thousands of policemen back on
the streets again,
969
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:57,480
and you get a sense of a rising
panic on the side of Tony Blair -
970
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,840
we couldn't wait six months
for thousands of police,
971
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:01,720
we needed them there in six days!
972
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,520
And that made him realise just
the sheer scale of
973
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,520
the task that he'd taken on
974
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,760
and that the Americans were making
a bit of a hash of.
975
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,920
The reconstruction was of a scale
and a level of difficulty
976
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,080
which was simply unprecedented.
977
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,360
It's clear British troops will be
needed in Iraq for the long haul.
978
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,920
Before flying back,
Blair gives them a speech...
979
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,720
This is for me,
I should think, is it?
980
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,080
..at one of Saddam's old palaces.
981
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,160
I know there are a lot
of disagreements in the country
982
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,040
about the wisdom of my decision.
983
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,120
I honestly believe that when people
look back on this conflict,
984
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,920
they will see this as one of
the defining moments of our century
985
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,800
and you did it.
986
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,760
It was your courage and
your professionalism that did it.
987
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:57,280
And thank you.
988
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,000
YELLING
989
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,280
An insurgency against
the occupation in Iraq
990
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:16,720
turns into a civil war and lengthy
sectarian conflicts.
991
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,960
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis
are killed,
992
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,200
and 136 British service personnel.
993
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,360
YELLING AND CHANTING
994
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,320
From the ashes of Al-Qaeda
rose ISIS...
995
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,040
SHOUTING
996
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,080
..and no weapons of mass destruction
were ever found.
997
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,680
A shaky democracy now holds in Iraq,
998
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,440
and Tony Blair has always
publicly denied
999
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,080
that his decision
to invade Iraq was a mistake.
1000
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,040
ALASTAIR CAMPBELL:
I think he'll go to his grave
1001
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,760
genuinely thinking
it was the right thing to do.
1002
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,040
Do you?
1003
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,480
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
1004
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,640
Yeah. Why the no?
1005
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,960
You wouldn't be human
if you didn't think...
1006
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,880
Look, it didn't work out as
planned - got to accept that.
1007
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,560
TOM: We should be criticised for
the mistakes we did make,
1008
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,000
and we did make mistakes.
1009
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,200
We didn't know Iraq...
1010
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,640
..we didn't understand
the dynamics between
1011
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,640
Sunnis and Shias in Iraq,
1012
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,160
didn't quite understand the depth
1013
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,560
of the dysfunctionality
in the George Bush presidency.
1014
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,720
JOHN: It had seriously damaged
1015
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,520
the reputation of Britain across
the region.
1016
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,160
It was a mistake that we went into
Iraq in the first place.
1017
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,240
SHOUTING
1018
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,480
He was personally, politically,
mentally,
1019
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,200
one of the best-equipped people
we've had as Prime Minister
1020
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:16,800
of the last 70 years,
1021
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:23,720
but his passion and his commitment
to the alliance with the Americans
1022
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,080
led him down a road in Iraq where,
1023
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,360
basically, he overreached,
we as a country overreached,
1024
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,560
and strategically,
it has not been a success.
1025
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,600
What advice would you give me as to
what question to ask him on Iraq?
1026
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,600
I would focus on telling him
the truth,
1027
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,800
because he finds it very hard
to dodge the truth.
1028
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,360
And say to him, "Prime Minister,
1029
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,640
"I know you think you've done well
on Iraq,
1030
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,920
"and you did the right thing,
and you had no choice,
1031
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,400
"but the evidence is against you -
do you accept that?"
1032
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,400
And he'll say, "No, no, Michael,
the evidence is not so.
1033
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,440
"There are all sorts of other
factors that came into play
1034
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,480
"which I could not
possibly have known about,
1035
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,560
"and actually, on the basis
of the evidence we had,
1036
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,920
"I did the right thing." That's the
sort of language he'll use.
1037
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,080
You won't get anywhere.
1038
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,560
Do you ever feel that, in the end,
1039
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:23,680
Iraq was the biggest mistake
of your career?
1040
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,400
Look, most people would say that
1041
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,640
Iraq was the biggest mistake
in my career, of course,
1042
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,320
and it will always be put,
1043
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,960
although history goes on
a long time, right?
1044
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,760
And I often say to people, you know,
1045
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,760
"If you actually look
at Iraq today...
1046
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:42,480
"..would it be better if Saddam
and his two sons
1047
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,360
"had still remained in power?"
1048
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,800
People sometimes want to have this
debate with me over and over again
1049
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,680
until I finally say,
"No, I tell you what -
1050
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:51,920
"I shouldn't have gone with America,
1051
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,280
"I should have taken a different
decision
1052
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,440
"and I'm really sorry," right?
1053
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,600
I can be sorry about
lots of things in relation to it
1054
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:03,120
but there's no point in carrying on
trying to get me to see...
1055
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,160
..you know, a different point of
view from the one I had at the time,
1056
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,400
or for me to accept this was
the only thing we did.
1057
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,480
Be honest with me,
what would you say are your flaws -
1058
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,520
or were your flaws -
as Prime Minister?
1059
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,640
You know, I sometimes think that's
for other people to judge, really.
1060
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:22,920
I mean, I...
1061
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,600
History will judge you...
1062
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:32,400
..but, sometime
in the deep of night,
1063
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,880
you might think about such things.
1064
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,960
You might, but on the other hand,
you might decide that
1065
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,120
what you think about deep in
the middle of the night
1066
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,680
is not what you want to start
declaring on camera...
1067
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,200
..which would be very wise
for a politician.
1068
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,600
Why not?
You're no longer a politician.
1069
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,040
You're always a politician.
1070
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:53,800
If people want the honest truth...
1071
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,720
..don't ask a political leader to go
1072
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,080
and make a judgment
about themselves,
1073
01:07:58,120 --> 01:07:59,840
because you're going to get
a version of it, OK?
1074
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:01,360
I mean, let's just be
honest about it.
1075
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:06,040
Whereas, frankly,
it's going to be a political answer.
1076
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:08,880
I'm being honest, right?
1077
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,440
That's what it's going be,
so make your own judgment.
1078
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,000
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