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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:06,360 I read somewhere that there's one film 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,600 that had more of an influence on you than any other. Yeah. 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:12,280 Schindler's List. 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,560 Can you tell me about that and the impact it had on you? 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,120 Well, Schindler's List is a remarkable 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,400 and important film in many different respects, 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,560 but the thing that impacted me most was... 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:30,160 ..this... 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,480 ..concept of the camp commandant 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,000 and the normality that 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,800 in one sense he was living with his girlfriend and all of that, 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,040 and then just the sheer brutality 13 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,640 that was being visited upon the people. 14 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:22,000 GUNSHOT As this awful thing is happening, 15 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,800 there are people just standing about. 16 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,240 You know, they're looking at it. They're knowing it happens 17 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,360 and they're not doing anything about it. 18 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,920 You cannot be a bystander - 19 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:35,560 that has been a very important part of my politics, 20 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,240 and it can lead you to right judgments 21 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,680 and wrong judgments but it's, 22 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,760 you know, it's not just your job to look after your country, 23 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,640 to look after the people around you, it's also... 24 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,240 You owe some responsibility to the bigger world. 25 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,720 BACKGROUND CHATTER He's coming. 26 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,080 It's June 2001. 27 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,760 Tony Blair has just won a second massive general election victory. 28 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,200 Prime Minister, are you pleased to be back in Downing Street? 29 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,480 How does it feel? How does it feel? 30 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Public opinion loved him, the press loved him, 31 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,720 the unions were quiet. 32 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,640 There were very few constraints on his ability to do what he wanted. 33 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,440 MIXED CHATTER 34 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,840 I was the most senior civil servant available to him, 35 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:56,080 and inside, I was bearing the briefs for incoming Prime Minister Blair, 36 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,920 and I said to him, "Prime Minister, 37 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,960 "congratulations on this amazing victory. 38 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,160 "You should be very proud of it, 39 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,040 "you've worked for it for years and you've done well. 40 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,120 "You are now at the moment of your greatest moment of power. 41 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,000 "It's going to be up to you to decide 42 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,840 "how do you use your power and what to do with it." 43 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,640 And he said, "Gosh, OK, right." 44 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,160 The point I was making to him is, 45 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,160 "You will never be this strong again," and he took it in. 46 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,600 The new US President George Bush arrives at Chequers 47 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,280 with congratulations for Blair's latest victory. 48 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,200 Blair is determined to build a close relationship with 49 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,080 the most powerful man in the world. 50 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,040 Tell me about Tony's relationship with him 51 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,320 and what you perceived of that. How did it work? 52 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,680 I can remember when we... 53 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,320 Because obviously we knew Bill and Hillary 54 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,800 even before Tony became Prime Minister, 55 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:09,880 from when he became Leader of the Opposition, 56 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:17,000 and obviously we have similar views in many ways. 57 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,000 Then, you know, the Republicans come in 58 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,680 with George Bush, who we know nothing about. 59 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,600 And when I didn't know them, 60 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:33,000 I was very apprehensive about, did we have anything in common? 61 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,120 What I did know, and what Tony made perfectly clear to me, is... 62 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,080 ..it was my duty to make sure that we got on. 63 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,680 Over dinner, they discuss the biggest threats to the world. 64 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,760 Bush outlines his plans for a nuclear missile shield 65 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,920 to protect the United States of America... 66 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,840 ..though Cherie can't help but point out a flaw in his plan. 67 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,120 I simply expressed the view that it didn't really matter what you had 68 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,360 if you had an individual who was determined, 69 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,840 an individual terrorist, who was determined to blow themselves up. 70 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,800 You know, a nuclear shield, or a... 71 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:17,720 Cannot really protect you. 72 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:25,600 Tony... Mr Blair... 73 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Two months on, Blair is in Brighton, preparing to make 74 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,640 a major speech in support of the Euro at the TUC conference. 75 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,240 We're in The Grand Hotel... 76 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,840 ..and we're in a room where Tony was writing his speech. 77 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,040 We were quiet. We were just getting on with our own work 78 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,680 because he didn't want any noise, but we had the TV on over there. 79 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,520 Have some very, very sketchy details reaching us here at Sky Central 80 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,120 that happened within the last few moments. 81 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:04,640 He said, "Turn it off, Alastair." 82 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,760 He said, "Anji, go down and keep an eye on it." 83 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:13,480 And as you can see, 84 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,520 I don't know if you just saw the plane flying by. 85 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:16,880 There's another explosion. 86 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,400 Another plane. We just saw a plane flying by... 87 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,880 And we see the second plane go in... 88 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,200 ..and our Special Branch jump up out of their chairs 89 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,800 because they know this is not an accident any more. 90 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,080 APPLAUSE 91 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,000 Bill, Congress. 92 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,000 As Bill has just informed you... 93 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,600 ..there have been the most terrible, shocking events taking place in 94 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,280 the United States of America. 95 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,160 Delegates, I hope you will understand, 96 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,440 I will now return to London. 97 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,560 They're deciding how we should travel back to London, 98 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,840 and they decided in the end that it would be safer 99 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,040 for us to go on a train, 100 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,480 because if we were travelling in our normal convoy, 101 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,080 that's easily spotted from the air. 102 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,840 And I can remember Tony just sitting there 103 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,280 with that look on his face, that look I know so well, 104 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:24,840 and just staring out the window. 105 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,480 He had spent that summer reading the Quran. 106 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,880 His mind would have been going at 5,000 miles an hour. 107 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,080 Tony wrote this long, long 108 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,520 list of things we were going to need to do when we got back. 109 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:44,800 Protection around buildings, airspace... 110 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,560 Dozens and dozens and dozens of things that we had to do. 111 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,240 When to speak to Bush, 112 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,080 say that they'll be feeling like Pearl Harbor, 113 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,000 because they're not used to being attacked like this - 114 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,720 they'll be feeling like that. 115 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,800 Bush will be under enormous pressure to do things very, very quickly, 116 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,560 and will be under pressure to use this 117 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,960 to take out all sorts of different enemies around the world. 118 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,720 OK, nice and calmly out the front now, ladies and gents, please. 119 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,240 Can you tell me why we're being evacuated? 120 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,320 Can we go across the road? Has there been a security alert? 121 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,360 I can't tell you at this time, OK? 122 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,160 RICHARD: We got hold of Blair - 123 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,600 he said, "Well, how are the Americans going to react?" 124 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,040 His immediate reaction, without blinking. 125 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,240 "How do we stop the Americans doing anything stupid immediately?" 126 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,000 I was at Number 10 when the Prime Minister arrived back from Brighton, 127 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,680 and I saw this figure stride very purposefully. 128 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,480 And there was something in the stride and the gait 129 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,840 that said that he recognised the world had changed. 130 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,840 And he is a figure who, I think, 131 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,840 always wanted to change history. 132 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:06,440 This mass terrorism is the new evil in our world. 133 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,840 We therefore here, in Britain... 134 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,640 ..stand shoulder to shoulder 135 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,200 with our American friends in this hour of tragedy... 136 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,440 ..and we, like them... 137 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,600 ..will not rest until this evil is driven from our world. 138 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,120 The number of people missing in the rubble 139 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,240 of the World Trade Center has jumped to 6,333. 140 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,600 No-one has emerged alive in more than a week. 141 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,000 Mr Blair? Mr Blair? Mr Blair? 142 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,240 Days after 9/11, Blair is in New York, 143 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,760 heading to a service paying respect to British victims. 144 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,320 It's important to recognise 9/11, at the time, 145 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,560 was this dramatic event. 146 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,360 It was obvious America was going to act, 147 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,440 and it was obvious they were going to act with a lot of force. 148 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,800 If we weren't prepared to stand with them at that moment, 149 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,400 and in what they thought was their moment of immense national peril, 150 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,760 then if we ever had a moment of national peril, 151 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,280 why should they stand with us? It wasn't just a moral question, 152 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,480 it was primarily a question of, 153 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,720 it was fundamentally in Britain's national interest 154 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,400 to be with America at this point. 155 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,720 SIREN WAILS I can only imagine what it must have 156 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,280 been like for people in New York, 157 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,840 but my father's generation knew what it was like. 158 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,200 They went through the blitz. 159 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,480 They know what it's like to suffer this type of tragedy and attack... 160 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,640 ..and there was one country and one people 161 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,720 that stood by us at that time... 162 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,640 ..and that country was America, 163 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,760 and those people were the American people. 164 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,280 And as you stood side by side with us then, 165 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,760 we stand side by side with you now. 166 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,680 As it's established that the mastermind behind the attacks, 167 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,040 Osama Bin Laden, is operating in Afghanistan... 168 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,520 CAMERA CLICKS 169 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:32,320 ..President Bush prepares to reveal his response to the world. 170 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,880 CAMERA CLICKS 171 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,320 The President was going to give an address to the nation 172 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,000 and Prime Minister Blair said, "I'm coming." 173 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,760 And the President said, "Tony, you don't have to do that." 174 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,040 He said, "No, I have to do that. I'm coming." 175 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,880 And then the President said, "Do you want to speak? Do you want...?" 176 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,800 And he said, "No, I Just want to be there." 177 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:55,160 And he came. 178 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,320 And I told the Prime Minister that that was a moment when 179 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,480 the special relationship really felt special. 180 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:06,760 And on behalf of the American people, 181 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,360 I thank the world for its outpouring of support. 182 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,240 America will never forget the sounds 183 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,920 of our national anthem playing at Buckingham Palace. 184 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,000 America has no truer friend than Great Britain. 185 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,520 Thank you for coming, friend. 186 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,440 Our war on terror begins with Al-Qaeda... 187 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,280 ..but it does not end there. 188 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,920 Either you are with us, 189 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,720 or you are with the terrorists. 190 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,760 APPLAUSE 191 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,720 ANJI: After we'd been to America, 192 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,040 it had been agreed that Tony would go on a sort of world tour, 193 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:07,200 making sure that everybody was on board for taking on Bin Laden. 194 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,520 Tony Blair was the first European leader 195 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,600 to arrive in Brussels straight from his session in Washington. 196 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,920 The key tonight - a message of unwavering support for America 197 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,240 for whatever she does to strike back. 198 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,560 RICHARD WILSON: He did have a very strong sense 199 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,920 of his own mission in the world, 200 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,440 and he wanted to reconcile his ambition 201 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,160 with what was morally right. 202 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,640 We flew to Moscow, where he went off on his own, 203 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,040 much to our concern - 204 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,840 because we didn't like him going off by himself - 205 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:49,040 to see Putin, and they played billiards in Putin's dacha. 206 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:50,440 When we're battling something like 207 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,240 the issue of international terrorism, 208 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,480 but also on many other issues too, 209 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,520 we need Russia there as a partner and a friend. 210 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:08,200 Blair travels nearly 50,000 miles on more than 30 flights. 211 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,560 He meets more than 50 world leaders, 212 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,040 each time trying to persuade them 213 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,800 to stand shoulder to shoulder with America. 214 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,360 Some Arab countries, they are quite apprehensive. 215 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,360 No western leader is on record to say that 216 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,960 no Arab countries will be targeted. 217 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,880 Well, I think there are two different phases to this action. 218 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,840 The first phase is to deal with Osama bin Laden, his network, 219 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,000 the Al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan, and these camps that are there, 220 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,240 where they're training literally thousands of people 221 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,760 to go out and export terror right round the world, 222 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,040 including, incidentally, in the Middle East. 223 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,320 But then the second phase is to say, 224 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,640 well, what are the aspects 225 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,680 of international terrorism that we need to deal with? 226 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,200 Again, you evaded the question. 227 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,120 You're not telling me whether an Arab country is targeted, 228 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,240 whether it's Iraq, Syria, or even Iran or Sudan in the future. 229 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,200 But what I'm saying to you is that no country is going to be targeted 230 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,800 unless there is evidence that it is doing something wrong. 231 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,480 Well, with 9/11, two things collided. 232 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,960 One was his closeness to America... 233 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,920 ..and secondly, this Manichean view of the world 234 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,720 as a struggle between good and evil, and these two hit. 235 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:36,000 These were two very, very strongly Christian-believing leaders 236 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,360 in a way that I can't think that we've had before. 237 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,240 And the fact that they were going to launch 238 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,560 what is described in the Middle East as a crusade 239 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,840 is a curious coincidence. 240 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,400 Does the fact that George Bush and you are both Christians 241 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,640 make it easier for you to view these conflicts in terms of good and evil? 242 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,200 I don't think so, no. I think that whether you are a Christian 243 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,400 or you're not a Christian, you can try and perceive 244 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,360 what is good and what is evil. 245 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,160 You don't pray together, for example? 246 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,320 No, we don't pray together, Jeremy, no. 247 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,920 Why do you smile? 248 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,080 Because why do you ask me the question? 249 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:22,080 Because I'm trying to find out how you feel about it, I mean... Yeah. 250 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:24,840 MUFFLED LAUGHTER Possibly. 251 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,240 To understand Tony Blair's Christianity, 252 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,480 you have to go back to Oxford University in the early 1970s. 253 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,560 Tony came up to Oxford, he immediately made friends... 254 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,720 ..and I remember being in his room once 255 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,040 and there was a Bible lying on the table, 256 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,800 and I said, "Oh, are you reading that?" 257 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,600 He said, "Yes, I am." 258 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,720 "Are you going to church?" I think I put it like that - 259 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,080 "Are you going to church?" He said, "Yes." 260 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,360 And I didn't really discuss it with him. 261 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,000 I'd always known that he... 262 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,080 There was a part of him, a spiritual side to Tony. 263 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,240 In his second year at Oxford, Blair is confirmed into the church 264 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:22,120 after meeting an older student - Peter Thomson, an Australian priest. 265 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,400 PETER: We used to have these marvellous discussions 266 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,160 that would go for hours - you know, cigarettes and coffee. 267 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:36,320 And we'd get into religion and politics as one. 268 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:38,880 He could have easily gone into the church. 269 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,800 People often say that he speaks in a kind of messianic way. 270 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,680 How do you feel about that? 271 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,560 He tends to preach a little bit. 272 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,440 I can understand what people are saying about that, 273 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,840 in fact I don't see it that way. 274 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,320 I think he speaks in a more prophetic way rather than 275 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,560 a philosophical or analytical way, 276 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,080 and it's about time politicians started to do that. 277 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,920 Peter was probably the single biggest influence in my life, 278 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,120 I should think, 279 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,520 and I still think about him virtually every day. 280 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:18,880 That meant that my... 281 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,880 ..Christianity and my politics were linked, not in the way - 282 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,920 because whenever you talk about religion and politics, 283 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,600 people can confuse it - not in the sense that 284 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,520 I felt some political mission about Christianity, as it were, 285 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,920 but if you're going to do politics, 286 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,720 do it for a reason that's bigger than you, 287 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,400 that's got something to do with belief. 288 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,800 Have you climbed up to the top? Yes, I have, darling. Mm. Yes. 289 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,520 Meeting Peter really inspired Tony. 290 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,240 Talking to him about Christ as a radical who fought for the poor, 291 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,000 who was engaged with the poor, 292 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,080 who fought for what was right, 293 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,920 I think was very much something that appealed to Tony. 294 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,200 I mean, I think if you are a person of faith, 295 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,960 it does shape your worldview. 296 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:16,000 The idea of your beliefs being something that resulted in action 297 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,160 was what he brought to my philosophy. 298 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,960 In other words, your religious belief 299 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,760 wasn't something that shut you away from the world, 300 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,800 but something that meant that you had to go out and act. 301 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,400 CAMERA CLICKS, DISTANT APPLAUSE 302 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,320 Within a month of 9/11, Blair sends British troops 303 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,120 to join the American-led war in Afghanistan... 304 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,680 ..and lays out his vision for a new world order. 305 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:49,640 Out of the shadow of this evil should emerge lasting good. 306 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,840 Whatever the dangers of the action we take, 307 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,720 the dangers of inaction are far, far greater. 308 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,600 To the Afghan people, we make this commitment - 309 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,920 we will not walk away as the outside world has done 310 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,920 so many times before there. 311 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,120 And I want to make it a fight for justice, too. 312 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,480 Justice not only to punish the guilty, 313 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,240 but justice to bring those same values of democracy 314 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,600 and freedom to people round the world. 315 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,760 ROBERT HARRIS: There was a sense that he was an instrument of God 316 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,680 for goodness on the Earth... 317 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,760 ..that there was a battle between good and evil. 318 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,480 This seems to me a dangerous way for any individual to live their life, 319 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,120 but for a politician, it's quite dangerous 320 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,520 because the world doesn't really divide in that Manichean way. 321 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,520 The war in Afghanistan begins. 322 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,880 Once again, American bombs rained down on 323 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,080 the Taliban front line near Kabul. 324 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,040 The Taliban is quickly toppled, but Bin Laden escapes. 325 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,120 One month on, Blair flies into Afghanistan 326 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,040 under cover of darkness so as to avoid potential missile fire. 327 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,240 MIXED CHATTER 328 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,720 As he greets the new Afghan leader, 329 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,680 Blair is told to stay on the red carpet 330 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,040 as the airport hasn't yet been fully cleared of land mines. 331 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,080 BAND PLAYS MUSIC 332 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,640 CHANTING 333 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,120 Many people were saying this action was a mistake, 334 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,240 would be opposed by people in Afghanistan, 335 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,200 that we would make the situation worse, 336 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,440 that the whole of the region would be destabilised. 337 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,840 Who would have guessed that today we have come 338 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,480 a far greater distance than many might have anticipated? 339 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,560 Thank you very much. Handshake? Well, yes, plenty of that. Yeah. 340 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,920 Is that fine now? 341 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,920 I think, at that stage, we all thought, 342 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,280 "This is great, Tony, you're keeping everyone together." 343 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,480 We were proud of him, and he did the right thing. 344 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,280 And then Blair came out and said, 345 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760 "We're going to eliminate opium. 346 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,800 "It's the cause of all the heroin addicts on the streets of Britain." 347 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,120 You can't just tell people who, 348 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,160 they grow that because that's the only way to make a living, 349 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,720 that you're just going to eliminate it, 350 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,320 you have to offer them a better life and an alternative way. 351 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,360 And, of course, then he volunteered that Britain would take on Helmand, 352 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,040 the most dangerous place in Afghanistan. 353 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,520 And a lot of our soldiers lost their limbs and so on, 354 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,240 and that was him being brave with other people's bodies in a 355 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,400 not-very-well-thought-out way. So... 356 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,720 ..this Blair that was constraining America 357 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,000 and being sensible about post 9/11, about Afghanistan, 358 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,840 then became the sort of gung-ho militarist Blair 359 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,680 that didn't think things through 360 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,960 and made announcements that weren't sensible. 361 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,800 And you began to lose faith. 362 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,000 Well, I mean, it's not faith, you know. 363 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,320 He's not the Pope, you don't say, you know... 364 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,240 But I became critical, in my own head. 365 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,680 He was making mistakes. It was going wrong. 366 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,640 It's April 2002. 367 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,920 Blair arrives at Crawford, President Bush's ranch in Texas, 368 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,320 to discuss the next phase in the war on terror. 369 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,400 Bush has plans to get rid of the Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein. 370 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,280 Only that regime had actually used weapons of mass destruction... 371 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,440 ..and the link for the US was, these terrorist groups, 372 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,200 if they managed to get hold of weapons of mass destruction, 373 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,760 then instead of 3,000 people dying, it'll be 30 or 300,000, 374 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,840 and therefore we've got to deal with this issue. 375 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,280 And, you know, there's a lot of... 376 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,840 So much has been written and talked about it, 377 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,320 but it really did start with that. 378 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,760 And for me there were two considerations. 379 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,800 One, was it better to leave Saddam or remove him, 380 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,880 for the security of the world? And number two, be with America or not. 381 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,960 The situation with Saddam Hussein and his weapons 382 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,920 is complex and murky. 383 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,400 It's known that, previously, he'd gassed his own people. 384 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,560 The family living here had fled to their cellar 385 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,800 when they heard the first explosion. 386 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,160 They would have been unaware that the lethal gases 387 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,560 would penetrate every part of their home. 388 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,600 Bush and Blair now fear his weapons of mass destruction 389 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,960 could end up in the hands of terrorists. 390 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000 He claims he no longer has these weapons, but is he lying? 391 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,560 CAMERAS CLICK 392 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,480 We'll see everybody tomorrow. 393 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,720 Mr President, will the secretary...? 394 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,280 As I said, we'll see you tomorrow. Sounds good. 395 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,800 I know you can't wait and neither can I. 396 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,720 THEY LAUGH OK. 397 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,840 And neither can the Prime Minister for that matter. 398 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,840 How you doing, Ari? Good, sir. 399 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,880 You're looking just like a cowboy. 400 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000 TOM: President George Bush himself, 401 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,120 Iraq was not just a global issue, 402 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,400 but a personal issue because they'd tried to kill his father. 403 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:38,800 And George Bush is someone who holds a grudge, 404 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,520 takes things personally. 405 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,880 And President Bush is someone who puts 406 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,480 an awful lot of weight on personal relationships. 407 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,320 The Prime Minister recognised that, 408 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:02,800 and therefore the best strategy in influencing 409 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,880 President Bush's response 410 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,040 was be seen to be supportive to President Bush. 411 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,760 We used to sit there, and 412 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,440 Tony and George Bush used to go for a walk... 413 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,080 ..and you could see Bush's people hated it. They hated it. Why? 414 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,120 Well, because they'd come back an hour later or whatever - 415 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,320 having wandered around the woods - 416 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,480 they'd come back and, you know, President Bush would say, 417 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,360 "So this is where Tony and I have got to," 418 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,800 and Cheney and Rumsfeld were always horrified probably! 419 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,800 You know, they were just like, "But that wasn't the plan. 420 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,320 "That's not where this is supposed to be." 421 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,800 So an awful lot of politics, in the end, 422 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,560 is about people and relationships, 423 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,080 and ultimately, that's the way that you get movement from leaders. 424 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,640 Good morning. 425 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,640 We appreciate the rain that the Prime Minister brought with him. 426 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,040 SOME LAUGHTER And so do the other farmers 427 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,600 and ranchers in the area, Prime Minister, thanks for bringing it. 428 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,000 My pleasure, George. 429 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,680 The Prime Minister and I, of course, talked about Iraq. 430 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,440 I explained that the policy of my government is 431 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,440 the removal of Saddam 432 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,440 and that all options are on the table. 433 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,840 I can say that... 434 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,480 ..any sensible person looking at the position 435 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,760 of Saddam Hussein and asking the question... 436 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,840 ..would the region, the world, 437 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,200 and not least the ordinary Iraqi people... 438 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,080 ..be better off without the regime of Saddam Hussein? 439 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,640 The only answer anyone could give to that question would be yes. 440 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,360 John Sergeant, ITN. 441 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,960 Yes. John Sergeant, ITN. 442 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,840 Fine lad. Prime Minister, 443 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,120 we've heard the President say what his policy is directly about 444 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,480 Saddam Hussein, which is to remove him - 445 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,840 that is the policy of the American administration. 446 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:01,160 Could I ask you whether that is now 447 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,640 the policy of the British Government? 448 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,120 Well, John, you know, it has always been our policy 449 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,240 that Iraq would be a better place without Saddam Hussein. 450 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,000 Maybe I should be a little less direct 451 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,280 and be a little more nuanced 452 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,320 and say we support regime change. 453 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,360 It's certainly the policy of my administration, and... 454 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,560 ..I think regime change sounds a lot more civil, doesn't it? 455 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,840 Yeah. What Europeans have a problem with 456 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,960 about expanding any war on terror to Iraq is linkage. 457 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,760 They can see a linkage between Al-Qaeda and Afghanistan, 458 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,080 they can't see a direct linkage to Saddam Hussein. 459 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,080 Would you accept that there isn't a direct linkage and how, therefore, 460 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,080 do you make the moral case? First of all, I wouldn't accept that, 461 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880 but can't they see linkage between somebody who's willing 462 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,280 to murder his own people... 463 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,400 ..and the danger of him possessing weapons of mass destruction? 464 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,200 The thing I admire about this Prime Minister is he doesn't need 465 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,640 a poll or a focus group to convince him 466 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,840 the difference between right and wrong. 467 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,120 Thank you all. Thank you. Good job. 468 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:16,160 So, after Crawford, Blair writes Bush a letter which begins, 469 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,960 "I will be with you..." "I will be with you, whatever." 470 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,720 What does it say? "I will be with you, whatever." 471 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,520 I saw it. I saw the day it went, yeah. 472 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,320 It was not his best moment... 473 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,280 ..and... 474 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,720 ..I don't know quite to this day why he sent it. 475 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,680 The ambiguity in his relationships, 476 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,360 which he brilliantly used to good effect 477 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,880 as he did over the Good Friday Agreement, 478 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,120 could also lead people to drawing from what he was saying, 479 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,400 what they wanted to hear. 480 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,680 And my anxiety was that this would be seen as 481 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,320 a kind of blank cheque by the United States, 482 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,200 and that the consequence of that 483 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160 would be that our leverage would be reduced. 484 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,360 You know, people just put far too much emphasis 485 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,840 on the precise wording. 486 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,560 George... Hang on, you're a lawyer - you know the importance of words. 487 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,400 Yeah, I know, of course, the importance of words... 488 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,800 Didn't that commit you to a slippery slope that you couldn't get off? 489 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,480 No, of course not. 490 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,600 I was actually trying to persuade the Americans 491 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,920 to do something different, right? 492 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,480 I wanted us to go through a UN process, 493 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,440 I wanted to try and rally the world as far as possible. 494 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,720 I thought it was possible that we might get Saddam 495 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,280 to agree to the conditions that we wanted, 496 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,160 and I knew it was important... 497 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,920 ..that President Bush felt I was with him on the essential issue. 498 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,320 But would there have been anything that the Americans had proposed 499 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,880 or even done that would have made you withdraw that support? 500 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,720 Well, if they hadn't gone through the UN process 501 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,160 it would have been extremely difficult for us, but they did. 502 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,000 Was that a commitment that we were going to do 503 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,800 whatever the Americans wanted? Of course not. 504 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,240 But I was going to be with them in dealing with Saddam 505 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,080 because I believed that was necessary and I still do. 506 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,160 Blair persuades Bush not to invade Iraq straight away... 507 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,320 On behalf of the General Assembly, 508 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,960 I have the honour to welcome to the United Nations, Mr George W Bush. 509 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,840 APPLAUSE 510 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,840 ..but to use the UN to give Saddam an ultimatum - 511 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,000 give up any weapons of mass destruction you have 512 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,800 and let inspectors in to look for them, 513 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,960 or face the consequences. 514 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,880 We've accomplished much in the last year, 515 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,880 in Afghanistan and beyond. 516 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,040 We have much yet to do in Afghanistan and beyond. 517 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,640 Back home, Blair is under growing pressure 518 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,840 to show that Iraq is an imminent threat to the world. 519 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,280 Can you, here, today, offer one piece of evidence 520 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,840 that action is necessary? 521 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,720 Well, one piece of evidence is that they're in breach of... 522 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,560 ..23 of the demands that the UN has made 523 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,040 in respect of their weapons - 524 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,760 chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. 525 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,080 The Americans, in raising this issue, are not wrong, 526 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,720 and the reason why our place is beside them 527 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,240 is not because of some misplaced allegiance 528 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,840 or because of blind loyalty, 529 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,800 it's because it's the right thing to do. 530 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,840 RICHARD: His commitment to America and to being with America 531 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,080 was much stronger than I had understood, 532 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,480 and I went to see him... 533 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,680 ..and I said to him, 534 00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:53,600 "I am very worried about what you're doing on Iraq. 535 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,960 "My advice to you 536 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,920 "is you should only go into Iraq if you have evidence 537 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:04,600 "of the weapons, and support of the United Nations." 538 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,200 "Oh, Richard," he said, 539 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,240 "Don't worry, I'm not going to do anything stupid." 540 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,320 "We can buy off the Russians, they need money. 541 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:12,880 "The Germans will be onside. 542 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,600 "The French will be difficult at the last minute, 543 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,280 "but they'll give in. It'll be all right." 544 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,240 I think he wanted to carry his dream further in Iraq. 545 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,240 I think he thought he would end up, you know, 546 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,760 with a very popular invasion, the fall of a much-hated tyrant... 547 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,280 ..people throwing flowers over the troops. 548 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,480 He could go back to the issue which still was absolutely in his mind, 549 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,520 and which he wanted, which was membership of the Euro, 550 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,760 that we would enter the Euro, 551 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,240 we would have a bridge across the Atlantic to Bush, 552 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,720 who'd be grateful to him, 553 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,920 and he'd be in a very powerful position in the world. 554 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,760 That was the ambition, that was the dream, that was the inner vision. 555 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,000 Blair is seeing MI6 intelligence that suggests 556 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,480 that Saddam Hussein does have weapons of mass destruction. 557 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,560 Blair now gets his Director of Communications, 558 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,240 Alastair Campbell, to go to MI6 and the spies 559 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,520 to help them present their evidence. 560 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,240 What about the criticism, though, 561 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,440 that it was presented with a certainty that it didn't warrant? 562 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,960 Well, listen, I understand 563 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,400 lots of people made that criticism. 564 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,280 What some people in the intelligence community will say 565 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,560 is that you can never be certain, but I would argue 566 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,000 there was an ultra-caution 567 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,560 to the whole thing. 568 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,000 To have the chief spin doctor of a government helping to edit 569 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,000 and tinker with an intelligence dossier, 570 00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,840 I think it's just beyond the pale. 571 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,200 The whole Blairite obsession with spin, 572 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,680 of which Alastair Campbell was the prima donna, 573 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:13,440 led to a dossier that was false, hyped up and inaccurate. 574 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,440 Yes, you can set it against what's followed, 575 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,680 and the failure to find the weapons of mass destruction programme, 576 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,400 and say, "Well, that was bullshit," 577 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,600 but based upon the intelligence 578 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,040 and the assessment of intelligence that was going into that document, 579 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,600 I certainly don't accept the charge of deception, 580 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,760 and I don't accept even that we exaggerated. 581 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,320 Long delayed, much anticipated, 582 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,640 the dossier had journalists sprinting to deliver its message - 583 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,800 Iraq's weapons threaten the world's stability. 584 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,960 His missiles could hit Cyprus. 585 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,480 An attack could be 45 minutes away. 586 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,240 CLARE: I think he made up his mind early on 587 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,560 that he was going with America 588 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,800 and it was a question of how to manipulate his way through. 589 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,120 I'm sure he thought he was doing it for a good cause... 590 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,400 ..but, you know, human frailty says we can all do that - 591 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,640 convince ourselves that we did it for the right reasons. 592 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,080 Are we going to war, Prime Minister? 593 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,120 TOM: We didn't have black-and-white evidence to present to the public... 594 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,920 ..so what we had to present was our judgment. 595 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,960 Not just the material contained in the dossier, 596 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,000 but also the material he'd seen over years. 597 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,240 But he himself said that his views 598 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,680 were based on a conviction, 599 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:45,800 a belief that that was the case. 600 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,200 Ark Royal heads the biggest task force 601 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,320 deployed since the Falklands War. 602 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,280 It's January 2003, 603 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,960 and British forces are headed to the Middle East. 604 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,280 Bit worried and nervous about my dad and hope he's gonna be all right. 605 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,920 In the last two months, 606 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,800 UN inspectors have found no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... 607 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,640 ..but Blair is convinced Saddam Hussein 608 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,240 is giving them the run-around... 609 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,760 ..and now Blair's facing growing opposition to the prospect of war. 610 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,880 I was on a speaking tour of Muslim countries 611 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,560 about why we all needed to sort of come together. 612 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,480 The reaction I got was pretty darn strong. 613 00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,480 People questioned our motives. 614 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,880 I came back, 615 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,760 we sat outside on the terrace at Number 10, 616 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,440 and I said, "Look, you know, I'm worried here that the Arab world, 617 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,400 "the Muslim world, will feel that this is some sort of fresh 618 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,000 "sort of crusaders that we're embarking on here. 619 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,680 "You know, there could be, if we played it wrongly, 620 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,280 "quite a backlash." 621 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,880 He was not really convinced - 622 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,240 said I'd been spending far too long with the wrong people. 623 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,880 Sometimes with Tony... 624 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,960 ..he thinks that leadership is so important 625 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,600 and being decisive is so important 626 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,160 that he sometimes becomes 627 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,800 a little tin-eared, you know, to what other people are saying. 628 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,480 You know, "Careful here." "Think of that." 629 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,000 "Bring this into the balance a bit more." 630 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,160 And that's what I felt at the time. 631 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,200 CAR HORN BEEPS 632 00:40:58,240 --> 00:40:59,920 Marching through the streets of London... 633 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,480 WHISTLE PEEPS, CHANTING ..sending a message to Tony Blair 634 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,600 and George W Bush - "Not in my name." 635 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,360 ALL: Don't attack. Don't attack Iraq. 636 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,000 Don't attack. Don't attack Iraq. 637 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,400 When you think of Tony Blair, 638 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,120 what words spring to mind? 639 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,080 I think he's a man in denial, actually. 640 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,360 On the day of the march... 641 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,960 ..it was quite emotional. 642 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,680 I thought, "Wow, we've mobilised these people. 643 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,840 "Can the political establishment ignore this?" 644 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,720 They just felt so angry that their country was going to war 645 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,440 without their approval. 646 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,760 CHANTING AND CHEERING 647 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,880 It's the scale of the protest that is unprecedented - 648 00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,920 a million people. 649 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,520 It's the biggest rally ever on British soil. 650 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,880 Thousands more deaths in Iraq will set off 651 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,440 a spiral of conflict, of hate, of misery, of desperation, 652 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,760 that will fuel the wars, the conflict, the terrorism, 653 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,120 the depression, and the misery of future generations. 654 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,960 CHEERING 655 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,120 CHERIE: You could hear the protests in 10 Downing Street. 656 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,920 PROTESTORS: Don't attack. Don't attack Iraq. 657 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,640 Don't attack. Don't attack Iraq. 658 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,600 It was a very strange time. 659 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,960 I think it was hard for my children to come in every day, 660 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,520 and people were standing there calling their father 661 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,080 a murderer and a liar. 662 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,280 I don't know what I would have felt if I was... 663 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,840 ..out there rather than in 10 Downing Street, 664 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,760 but what I did know was that when Tony said, 665 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,160 as he absolutely believed, 666 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,320 that Saddam Hussein had these weapons of mass destruction, 667 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,200 he told me that was the case. 668 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:14,520 I absolutely know that that's what he thought was true. 669 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,000 WHISTLES PEEP 670 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,000 ALASTAIR CAMPBELL: The morning of the big protests, 671 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,000 we were in Scotland. 672 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,920 He said that morning he'd not slept. 673 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,000 He said that he was feeling... 674 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,320 ..worried. APPLAUSE 675 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,000 I think he felt frustrated. 676 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520 A lot of the things that Saddam Hussein had done in the past 677 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,160 were just sort of being pushed aside. 678 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,120 Not least his use of chemical weapons, 679 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,080 not least the torture chambers, not least the executions - 680 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,680 all the stuff that he did. 681 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,160 That didn't really have a big enough space within the public debate. 682 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,760 And I do remember meetings that he had with Iraqis 683 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,400 who were really pushing him, 684 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,000 saying, "I know how difficult it is, you've got to keep going. 685 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,840 "What we have lived with is an abomination." 686 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,200 Ridding the world of Saddam would be an act of humanity. 687 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:25,000 It is leaving him there that is inhumane. 688 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,800 Did anything, though, give you pause for thought? Yeah! 689 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,720 A million people on the streets, Nelson Mandela... 690 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,840 Yeah, of course! All of... But you see, in the end, the problem, 691 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,600 and it's one of the things you learn about leaders and leadership, 692 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,240 is that ultimately you sit in the seat, 693 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,440 you've got to take the decision, 694 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,160 and, you know, you've got to stand by it. 695 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,880 WHISTLES PEEP, HORNS BEEP 696 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,240 ALASTAIR CAMPBELL: How did it affect him? 697 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,080 I think it made him more conscious... 698 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,600 ..of the need to keep trying to explain why he was doing it. 699 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,040 Did it ever cause him to doubt the doing of it? 700 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,640 Not that I saw. Not that I saw. 701 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,560 Blair doesn't waver, 702 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,680 but he agrees with his team to embark on a new media strategy. 703 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,800 Well, I mean the masochism strategy - 704 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,960 I would say that was the period when he was 705 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,080 most fed up with the team, 706 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,160 because we were sending him forth 707 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,520 to see, largely, kind of, mothers of service people 708 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,520 who'd lost their lives or lost their limbs or whatever, 709 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:40,920 and it was grim. 710 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,560 And it was really grim, but we felt he had to talk to them. 711 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,120 He had to be seen to talk to them. 712 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,960 You said that you were really keen to go down the UN route, 713 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,360 but quite clearly, you don't give a stuff. 714 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,800 We're going to go to war anyway, that's what we all feel. 715 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,600 Well, why did I go through the United Nations last year, then? 716 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,280 I don't know, a fig leaf perhaps. Well, how is it a fig leaf? 717 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,080 I've got to get the agreement of those other countries. 718 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,000 But you're not going to now, are you? You're going to do it anyway. 719 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,440 No, I'm not saying I'm going to do it anyway. 720 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,120 You're still prepared to risk all the good work that you've done 721 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,280 on this one issue. 722 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,800 Well, Debra... In the days before the invasion, 723 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,000 he's questioned by a mother whose son was killed on 9/11. 724 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,880 I lost my only child 725 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,880 in the World Trade Center. 726 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,760 Now, for the last 18 months, my pain has been unbearable. 727 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,560 You are a man that has come across as a genuine man, 728 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,960 a family-orientated man, 729 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,200 a man who's not only a Christian, but a church-going Christian. 730 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:45,000 Now, to me, Mr Blair, what you're going to do - 731 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,200 and I'm sure you're going to it, you and Mr Bush - 732 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,840 you're going to go and now bomb Iraq? 733 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,240 You don't know how many people like me that's going to suffer so much. 734 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,840 How many innocent victims are you going to kill? 735 00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,360 And how many people are 736 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,760 going to suffer like I've suffered? APPLAUSE 737 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,400 But on the... No, Mr Blair, don't do it. 738 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,720 I'm doing it because I think it's the right thing to do, 739 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,840 and I hope, even at this stage, we can avoid conflict, actually. 740 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,640 But if this goes badly, you're finished, really, aren't you? 741 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,240 Well, let's wait and see, Trevor, shall we, about that? 742 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,920 As to whether it goes badly. Thank you. Thank you. 743 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,520 While the diplomats discuss deadlines, 744 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,080 the American and British troops are ready and waiting for war. 745 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,840 With America ready to attack, Blair is on a mission. 746 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,720 He wants world leaders to sign another UN resolution, 747 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,840 giving a clearer authorisation for war. 748 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,160 I remember talking to President Mubarak at the time. 749 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,120 He said, "I trained as an air force pilot in Baghdad, 750 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,840 "I know what the Iraqis are like, 751 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,000 "and your invasion of Iraq will create not one, 752 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,360 "but 100 Bin Ladens." 753 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,280 What surprised me even more was my American counterpart, 754 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,160 who was a good friend, obviously, David Welch, 755 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,080 saying to me very privately, 756 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,040 "John, your service and our services 757 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,080 "have been looking for this WMD for the last ten years. 758 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,240 "The Russians and the French - we've all been looking for it 759 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,720 "and we haven't found it. Maybe there isn't any." 760 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,720 Everyone agrees Saddam is a threat, 761 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,600 everyone agrees that he must be disarmed, 762 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:42,880 otherwise he poses a real danger... 763 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,880 But it soon becomes clear that Jacques Chirac, 764 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,160 the French President, is a problem. 765 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,800 Privately, he had given Blair some personal advice. 766 00:48:56,720 --> 00:49:00,760 He said, "If you go to war in Iraq, in the future 767 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,240 "you will not be able to look your baby son Leo in the eye." 768 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,880 With Chirac against, the UN resolution cannot pass... 769 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,200 ..so Blair has to decide 770 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:20,880 whether to go ahead with America or change course. 771 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,440 Before taking the decision, he has a secret meeting 772 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:33,080 with an old friend at his country retreat, Chequers. 773 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,600 I felt terrible for him because... 774 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,960 ..he had established a good relationship with Bush. 775 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,800 He realised that he couldn't get what he tried to do, 776 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,080 which is a brief extension of the deadline... 777 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,120 ..so that all the inspections could be completed. 778 00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,400 The Bush administration was ready to go to war 779 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,080 and thought it was important, 780 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,920 and the rest of the world disagreed with them - 781 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,360 almost everybody did. 782 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,640 So when you're caught in the middle... 783 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,760 ..and you want to maintain your unique relationship 784 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,320 with the United States, 785 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:22,160 and you want to support European unity, not take it apart... 786 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:26,920 ..you wind up... 787 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,600 ..taking the best of two unattractive alternatives. 788 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,080 I didn't believe it was... 789 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,320 ..critical to our position in the world, 790 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,200 our credibility in the war on terror, 791 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:45,080 all that kind of stuff - I didn't believe that. 792 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,760 So he was in a pickle, and... 793 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,000 ..he did what he thought was right... 794 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,440 ..and I think he still thinks he did the right thing. 795 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:00,720 Do you? 796 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,960 I don't know what I would have done under the circumstances 797 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,800 if I'd been Prime Minister of the UK. 798 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,120 SALLY: I think he was incredibly disappointed 799 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,440 because he really had fought for a second resolution, 800 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,960 but in the end, he still felt he had to take the decision. 801 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,760 And he said, "I am going to press ahead with this. 802 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,440 "But if you're not... You, Sally, you and any number of people 803 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,440 "don't think that's right and don't, you know, don't want to do that, 804 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,000 "I would completely understand that." 805 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,440 CHERIE: So many decisions as Prime Minister are 50/50. 806 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,240 You have to choose. 807 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,800 But once Tony has chosen, he's... 808 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,760 ..very skilled at making people think that 809 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:54,120 obviously it was never 50/50 - that was the obvious choice... 810 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,200 ..and it stems from his strength of character and his belief in himself. 811 00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,320 Is there sometimes, though, a danger of overconfidence? 812 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,040 I'm a great believer in confidence. 813 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,640 Blair now stakes everything on a vote on the war in parliament. 814 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,440 If he loses, he'll resign. 815 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,080 JEREMY: We had the final meeting of those of us who were 816 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,000 strongly opposed to military action in Iraq. 817 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,920 I said, "Very short, very simple, Tony... 818 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:34,360 "..why are we doing this?" 819 00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:38,680 "Jeremy, understand this - 820 00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:41,840 "we're doing this because it's the right thing to do." 821 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,560 And then left the room. 822 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,960 I think he invested so much in it. 823 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,600 There'd been such a build-up of troops in the area, 824 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,080 he felt, at that point, he couldn't just back off. 825 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,120 I think he'd got himself into a messianic trench. 826 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:03,600 He was going to do it. 827 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,560 CHANTING 828 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,440 The stakes could barely be higher. 829 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,840 The Prime Minister warning his party he will not want to lead it 830 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,520 if they do not back the war. 831 00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:19,640 There was the concern that maybe Blair's government would go down. 832 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,320 The calls at that point with the President 833 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,160 became about whether or not it was worth it 834 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,360 for Prime Minister Blair to take a vote 835 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,600 and possibly collapse his government, 836 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:39,760 or would there be some other way for Britain to be involved? 837 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,640 PROTESTORS CHANT 838 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,760 CHERIE: He was very conscious that this could mean 839 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,160 that he would no longer be Prime Minister... 840 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:56,400 ..and that it would mean a huge disruption for our family. 841 00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,360 And so he did sit down the three oldest ones, 842 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:04,760 who had been affected at school - because they're teenagers by now - 843 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,360 and obviously in our home - 844 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,240 because they were aware of the debate that was going on - 845 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,440 that we might all have to move out by the end of the week 846 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,000 if he lost the vote. 847 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,960 The decision you made to join them in war in Iraq - 848 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,000 did you have any doubts about it? 849 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:27,680 Look, I knew it was gonna be immensely difficult, and... 850 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,320 ..that's why I tried to avoid it for a long time. 851 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:34,840 Even up until the very last minute, 852 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,840 I was trying to find a way that we could maybe secure 853 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,000 the removal of Saddam a different way - 854 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,440 that you could organise it differently, do it differently - 855 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,120 but in the end it was impossible 856 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,440 and so you come to the crunch point and it's this or it's that, 857 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,680 you've got to decide where you stand, and that's where I stood. 858 00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:00,280 Blair is about to face the biggest parliamentary vote of his life. 859 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,480 We now come to the main business - the Prime Minister. 860 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,480 ALL: Hear, hear! 861 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,040 This is a tough choice indeed - 862 00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,520 to stand British troops down now and turn back, 863 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,880 or to hold firm to the course that we have set, 864 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,080 and I believe passionately we must hold firm to that course. 865 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,440 MIXED CHATTER 866 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,760 Confidence is the key to prosperity, 867 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,120 and insecurity spreads like contagion. 868 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,120 The key today is stability and order, 869 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,640 the threat is chaos and disorder. 870 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,520 I've written quite a lot of novels about prime ministers and wartime. 871 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,880 British prime ministers traditionally tried 872 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,360 to keep us out of wars. 873 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,680 This is the only time that I can think of that we've had 874 00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:53,120 a very articulate former lawyer advocating a war, 875 00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,160 trying, in effect, to sell it to the House of Commons, 876 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,680 his party and the country. 877 00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:01,240 This is extraordinary and unprecedented. 878 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,800 And all the talents one observed in Tony Blair that one warmed to 879 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,080 and admired were turned into, what seems to me, 880 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,440 to have been a much darker purpose. 881 00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,360 I beg to move the motion. 882 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,760 MIXED YELLING 883 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:16,960 Order! 884 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,360 Order. 885 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,880 Blair wins, 886 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,280 and in less than 36 hours, the war will begin. 887 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,280 Robert Harris told us that Iraq was the only time he could think of 888 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,480 that a British Prime Minister had persuaded 889 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,160 the House of Commons to go to war. 890 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:39,800 What do you think about that? 891 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,840 Well, it hadn't always been the tradition 892 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:48,080 that you put these things to a vote in the House of Commons, but we did. 893 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,280 But it was... The essence is that it was a war of choice, 894 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,520 not of necessity. Well, that's a matter of opinion. 895 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,320 You know, it depends on what you think is necessary at the time. 896 00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,320 I mean, all wars are wars of choice. 897 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,640 In a sense, you can say, "I choose to do it," 898 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,080 "I choose not to do it," but... 899 00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,000 Well, Churchill didn't have a choice. 900 00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,640 Well, there would have been people at the time who said he did, 901 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,000 but fortunately, he made the right choice. 902 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,680 BILL: After he did it, 903 00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,200 you can't fool around with this. 904 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,720 If you send troops into harm's way, you got to win. 905 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,920 And so a lot of people were offended that he seemed 906 00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,680 so determined during the course of the Iraq conflict, 907 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,960 but if you're going to do something like that, you have to try to win. 908 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,080 LOUD BANG 909 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:51,000 Blair and Bush broadcast directly to the Iraqi people. 910 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,920 This is George W Bush. At this moment, 911 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,520 the regime of Saddam Hussein is being removed from power, 912 00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,720 and the future of your country 913 00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,320 will soon belong to you. 914 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:04,840 LOUD RUMBLE 915 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,000 Our enemy is Saddam and his regime, not the Iraqi people. 916 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,400 Our forces are friends... 917 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,800 ..and liberators of the Iraqi people, not your conquerors. 918 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,760 So, it is in the spirit of friendship... 919 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:37,520 ..and goodwill that we now offer our help. 920 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:38,760 Thank you. 921 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,480 JOHN: I was in Cairo and Number 10 called me 922 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,680 and said, "We need someone on the ground in Baghdad. 923 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,520 "The Prime Minister's concerned about level of grip on the ground. 924 00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,040 "Could you please go there?" 925 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,080 I arrived - it was complete disorder. 926 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,200 YELLING AND CHEERING 927 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,080 Saddam is swiftly removed from power... 928 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,520 ..but in Baghdad, crime and looting become widespread. 929 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,840 Revenge attacks between Iraqis are common. 930 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,640 GUNFIRE 931 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,360 GUNFIRE 932 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,320 It was total chaos. 933 00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,480 No real planning had gone into the aftermath. 934 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,360 The Americans were sitting, hunkered down in their tanks 935 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:46,760 and armoured vehicles 936 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,400 with reflective sunglasses and heavy helmets on 937 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,720 with no engagement with the Iraqi people at all. 938 00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,120 They just assumed that once American forces had toppled Saddam, 939 00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:58,600 then the Iraqi exiles would come in, 940 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,600 take over and everything would be hunky-dory. 941 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,600 Well, it turned out to be completely different from that. 942 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,080 GUNFIRE 943 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,080 Soon after Saddam is removed from power, 944 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:15,920 Blair arrives in the Iraqi city of Basra, 945 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,520 where British troops are in control. 946 01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,320 The streets of Basra may be filled with rubbish, 947 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,000 but it's in the water that the real problem lies. 948 01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,000 Doctors here have identified the symptoms of cholera 949 01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:28,920 in at least 17 people. 950 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,560 WOMAN SPEAKS ARABIC 951 01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:44,880 # Twinkle, twinkle, little star 952 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,720 # How I wonder what you are 953 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,480 # Up above the world so high 954 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,320 # Like a diamond in the sky. # 955 01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,400 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 956 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,560 MIXED CHATTER 957 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,760 Obviously, Blair wanted to come to Iraq 958 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,920 because he'd invested so much in it. 959 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,160 Thank you! You OK? Yeah? 960 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,080 Of course, Basra was not Baghdad - 961 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,000 it was in much better shape than Baghdad was. 962 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,400 CHILDREN CHANT AND CLAP 963 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,280 But the military briefings we had at the time were worrying 964 01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,880 because there was a clear rise of violence, 965 01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,280 even in Basra, let alone in the rest of the country. 966 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,520 We were trying to get some police training going, 967 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:48,800 which would take, sort of, six months to get 968 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:52,080 thousands of policemen back on the streets again, 969 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:57,480 and you get a sense of a rising panic on the side of Tony Blair - 970 01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,840 we couldn't wait six months for thousands of police, 971 01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:01,720 we needed them there in six days! 972 01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,520 And that made him realise just the sheer scale of 973 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,520 the task that he'd taken on 974 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,760 and that the Americans were making a bit of a hash of. 975 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,920 The reconstruction was of a scale and a level of difficulty 976 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,080 which was simply unprecedented. 977 01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,360 It's clear British troops will be needed in Iraq for the long haul. 978 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,920 Before flying back, Blair gives them a speech... 979 01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:31,720 This is for me, I should think, is it? 980 01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,080 ..at one of Saddam's old palaces. 981 01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,160 I know there are a lot of disagreements in the country 982 01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,040 about the wisdom of my decision. 983 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,120 I honestly believe that when people look back on this conflict, 984 01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,920 they will see this as one of the defining moments of our century 985 01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,800 and you did it. 986 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,760 It was your courage and your professionalism that did it. 987 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:57,280 And thank you. 988 01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,000 YELLING 989 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,280 An insurgency against the occupation in Iraq 990 01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:16,720 turns into a civil war and lengthy sectarian conflicts. 991 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,960 Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are killed, 992 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,200 and 136 British service personnel. 993 01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,360 YELLING AND CHANTING 994 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,320 From the ashes of Al-Qaeda rose ISIS... 995 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,040 SHOUTING 996 01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,080 ..and no weapons of mass destruction were ever found. 997 01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,680 A shaky democracy now holds in Iraq, 998 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,440 and Tony Blair has always publicly denied 999 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,080 that his decision to invade Iraq was a mistake. 1000 01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,040 ALASTAIR CAMPBELL: I think he'll go to his grave 1001 01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,760 genuinely thinking it was the right thing to do. 1002 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,040 Do you? 1003 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,480 Sometimes yes, sometimes no. 1004 01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,640 Yeah. Why the no? 1005 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,960 You wouldn't be human if you didn't think... 1006 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,880 Look, it didn't work out as planned - got to accept that. 1007 01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,560 TOM: We should be criticised for the mistakes we did make, 1008 01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,000 and we did make mistakes. 1009 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,200 We didn't know Iraq... 1010 01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,640 ..we didn't understand the dynamics between 1011 01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,640 Sunnis and Shias in Iraq, 1012 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,160 didn't quite understand the depth 1013 01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,560 of the dysfunctionality in the George Bush presidency. 1014 01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,720 JOHN: It had seriously damaged 1015 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,520 the reputation of Britain across the region. 1016 01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,160 It was a mistake that we went into Iraq in the first place. 1017 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,240 SHOUTING 1018 01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,480 He was personally, politically, mentally, 1019 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,200 one of the best-equipped people we've had as Prime Minister 1020 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:16,800 of the last 70 years, 1021 01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:23,720 but his passion and his commitment to the alliance with the Americans 1022 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,080 led him down a road in Iraq where, 1023 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,360 basically, he overreached, we as a country overreached, 1024 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,560 and strategically, it has not been a success. 1025 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,600 What advice would you give me as to what question to ask him on Iraq? 1026 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,600 I would focus on telling him the truth, 1027 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,800 because he finds it very hard to dodge the truth. 1028 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,360 And say to him, "Prime Minister, 1029 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,640 "I know you think you've done well on Iraq, 1030 01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,920 "and you did the right thing, and you had no choice, 1031 01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,400 "but the evidence is against you - do you accept that?" 1032 01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,400 And he'll say, "No, no, Michael, the evidence is not so. 1033 01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,440 "There are all sorts of other factors that came into play 1034 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,480 "which I could not possibly have known about, 1035 01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,560 "and actually, on the basis of the evidence we had, 1036 01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,920 "I did the right thing." That's the sort of language he'll use. 1037 01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,080 You won't get anywhere. 1038 01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,560 Do you ever feel that, in the end, 1039 01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:23,680 Iraq was the biggest mistake of your career? 1040 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,400 Look, most people would say that 1041 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,640 Iraq was the biggest mistake in my career, of course, 1042 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,320 and it will always be put, 1043 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,960 although history goes on a long time, right? 1044 01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,760 And I often say to people, you know, 1045 01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,760 "If you actually look at Iraq today... 1046 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:42,480 "..would it be better if Saddam and his two sons 1047 01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,360 "had still remained in power?" 1048 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,800 People sometimes want to have this debate with me over and over again 1049 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,680 until I finally say, "No, I tell you what - 1050 01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:51,920 "I shouldn't have gone with America, 1051 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:53,280 "I should have taken a different decision 1052 01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,440 "and I'm really sorry," right? 1053 01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:58,600 I can be sorry about lots of things in relation to it 1054 01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:03,120 but there's no point in carrying on trying to get me to see... 1055 01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,160 ..you know, a different point of view from the one I had at the time, 1056 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,400 or for me to accept this was the only thing we did. 1057 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,480 Be honest with me, what would you say are your flaws - 1058 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,520 or were your flaws - as Prime Minister? 1059 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,640 You know, I sometimes think that's for other people to judge, really. 1060 01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:22,920 I mean, I... 1061 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,600 History will judge you... 1062 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:32,400 ..but, sometime in the deep of night, 1063 01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,880 you might think about such things. 1064 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,960 You might, but on the other hand, you might decide that 1065 01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,120 what you think about deep in the middle of the night 1066 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,680 is not what you want to start declaring on camera... 1067 01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,200 ..which would be very wise for a politician. 1068 01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,600 Why not? You're no longer a politician. 1069 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:52,040 You're always a politician. 1070 01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:53,800 If people want the honest truth... 1071 01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:56,720 ..don't ask a political leader to go 1072 01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,080 and make a judgment about themselves, 1073 01:07:58,120 --> 01:07:59,840 because you're going to get a version of it, OK? 1074 01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:01,360 I mean, let's just be honest about it. 1075 01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:06,040 Whereas, frankly, it's going to be a political answer. 1076 01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:08,880 I'm being honest, right? 1077 01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,440 That's what it's going be, so make your own judgment. 1078 01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,000 Subtitles by Red Bee Media 90292

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