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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,279 {\an8}This programme contains strong language and discussions of suicide 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,199 {\an8}The horsing community's so tight, 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,679 {\an8}they couldn't make sense of why Katie would take her own life. 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,999 Katie Simpson was known as a fantastic rider. 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,520 She had everything to live for. 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,840 Every corner you turn there's a big flashing red flag. 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,839 Jonathan Creswell had been convicted in relation 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,199 to domestic violence assaults. 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,280 I was sexually assaulted when I was 19 years old. 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,399 Katie was terrified of Creswell. 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,079 They protected him. 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,559 This has been a murder. 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,440 They continue to treat it as a suicide. 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,399 There was a definite orchestrated campaign 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,199 to make sure I couldn't investigate this. 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,280 She felt that she had to keep a secret. 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,600 Katie had started a relationship with a man called Shane McCloskey. 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,319 And this chance meeting... ...really lit the fuse... 19 00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:05,719 ...ultimately started 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,759 a domino effect which ends in Katie's death. 21 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,840 People need to know what happened to Katie. 22 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:24,479 Shane McCloskey was her first boyfriend. 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:25,919 The first time I ever met 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,720 Katie I was one of the Donegal Harriers Hunt. 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,479 I thought there was no fear in her and stuff 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,159 because that horse that she was hunting that day 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,399 for sure didn't look easy. 28 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,320 One word to describe, he looked a bit wild. 29 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,639 Katie, she could light up a room. 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,679 She could have brought you around to be, you know, 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,080 laughing and not even realising that you were laughing. 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Katie could get on with, you know, everyone. 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,279 Was always just a pleasure to be around. 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,599 I suppose that when we realised that we were both going to give things 35 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,040 a go, me and Katie, we just thought, why not? 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,519 On the 1st of August, 37 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,159 Katie had gone out with a friend for an evening in the Moy. 38 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,159 Katie was just telling me about her night out 39 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,279 and what they done, and who they met up with and, 40 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,440 you know, that they had a really good night. 41 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,880 She was in great form. 42 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,399 At around midnight that night, 43 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,119 Shane had travelled from Derry 44 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,319 to meet Katie at her mother's house. 45 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,480 Shane then stayed the night and left at 0600 the next morning. 46 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,919 Katie then starts her event in 47 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:08,679 the Meadows Equestrian Centre in Lurgan. 48 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,520 We kept in contact that morning. 49 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:13,959 Around midday during that event, 50 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,120 Katie sends a text to Shane McCloskey saying... 51 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,199 It was just more of the fact of trying 52 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,839 to get my story right, like, I was in my own home, 53 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,359 I wasn't up in Katie's, I never seen Katie. 54 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,239 That I wasn't there. 55 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,239 And one of the messages I did ask Katie, 56 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,559 "Can we not just tell 57 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,839 "the truth?" It was just a straight, "No." 58 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,840 One text that Shane sends to Katie is... 59 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,440 And Katie says... 60 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,199 Shane agrees to lie for Katie 61 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,520 and say that he was with his father. 62 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,919 She then continues, "Just please can you delete them?" 63 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,359 It's very confusing. Maybe she doesn't like me, 64 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,319 maybe... I don't know, you start to over-think 65 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,680 and you start to over-analyse everything. 66 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,159 I think Johnny Creswell thought he owned Katie as part 67 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,679 of his property. 68 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,519 She was clearly in fear 69 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,679 of Creswell finding out that she had been in 70 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,679 the company of another man. 71 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,679 Because of what we'd uncovered 72 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,520 the information against Creswell was overwhelming. 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:32,879 It exploded this case open 74 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,840 for me that can re-elevate this case to murder. 75 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,440 It was approximately five months after Katie had died. 76 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,919 I was so emotional at the time. 77 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,479 I'm just delighted we could do something. 78 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,199 This murder investigation was 79 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,640 going to tell everybody what happened to Katie. 80 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,719 We could not tell anybody. We couldn't, 81 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,479 because we could not alert Creswell 82 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,439 to what we were doing. 83 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,720 Cos he may conceal or damage evidence or intimidate witnesses. 84 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,159 We couldn't highlight 85 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,639 to people around Creswell or even Katie's family, 86 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,959 because the horsey community is so tight and people would talk. 87 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,559 One person got a sense we were launching a murder investigation, 88 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,120 everybody would know about it. 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,520 I knew now the pressure was on. 90 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,159 January, February, and into early March, 91 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,240 that was probably the most stressful period. 92 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,360 It was sleepless nights. 93 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,519 I was receiving calls from officers saying how I was making mistakes 94 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,759 and how this was going to make me look stupid in 95 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:53,999 the long run. 96 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,159 You're trying to make a name for yourself. 97 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,919 You were constantly thinking about it. 98 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,119 And that's where the doubt was creeping in. 99 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,360 Have I been wrong? 100 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,519 Due to concerns I had in relation to the postmortem, 101 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,919 I requested Dr Bentley to review 102 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,559 the photographs that were taken during the postmortem. 103 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,439 He was able to say that Katie had been beaten with 104 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,799 a rod type implement 105 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:20,879 and this could be shown by 106 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,480 the tramline bruising on her legs and arms. 107 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,119 Shane was able to say she had no injuries, 108 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,679 no bruises. 109 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,120 Up until 0600 on the 2nd, Katie has no injuries. 110 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,159 When the murder investigation had been officially launched, 111 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,199 at that point, we were able to get all 112 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,959 the samples taken during the postmortem to be now tested. 113 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,239 As Katie's death was being treated as a suicide, 114 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,239 all forensic samples that were taken from 115 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,919 Katie during her postmortem were not processed. 116 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,879 They were just stored from that point as no investigation 117 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,000 was being carried out. 118 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,319 Swabs had been taken 119 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,359 to obtain intimate samples from Katie, 120 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,400 particularly because she was bleeding from an intimate area. 121 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,600 It took three weeks to get the results back. 122 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,040 I then received an email which shocked me. 123 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,319 Jonathan Creswell's semen has been found on 124 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,000 Katie Simpson's vaginal swabs. 125 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,759 When we established that 126 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,879 Jonathan Creswell's semen had been found on 127 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,879 Katie Simpson's vaginal swabs, 128 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,639 there was no reasonable situation whereby this could occur. 129 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,559 It was a turning point for us, 130 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,999 because he had obviously been asked at the time, 131 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,599 when he was initially spoken to, 132 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,439 if there was any relationship between the two of them. 133 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,999 And he had said no. As interview coordinator, 134 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,879 it was a good moment for the investigation. 135 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:12,480 It was something very positive. 136 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,159 Jonathan Creswell is a dangerous sociopath. 137 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,719 He's a danger to women. 138 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,759 He's violent towards women. 139 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,400 You know you have to arrest him. 140 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:29,199 There was no covert or overt monitoring of Creswell at the time. 141 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,280 We needed to find out where he was staying. 142 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,879 He was in a house in 143 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,720 Briar Hill that his mother lived in. 144 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,599 On the morning of 2nd March, 2021, 145 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,879 an operation is put into place 146 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,039 to arrest Jonathan Creswell, and search his premises, 147 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,720 and then, bring him into custody. 148 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,919 It would be really damaging if we tried to arrest him and missed him, 149 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,639 and then he'd be ahead of the game. 150 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,440 {\an8}So, we had to make sure that we got there extremely early. 151 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,079 The closer and closer you get 152 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,639 to now going open about what you'll be doing is exciting. 153 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,800 It is extremely intense when you go. 154 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,839 It was 5am, and we hit the house. 155 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,640 KNOCK ON DOOR 156 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,999 There was a huge delay in somebody answering the door, 157 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,200 even though we knew people were in the house. 158 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,960 This raised my suspicions. 159 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,199 When we got in, 160 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,519 I told him he was going to be arrested for 161 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,520 the murder of Katie Simpson. 162 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,279 He was pretending to be shocked and tearful. 163 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,839 "No, not my Katie, not my Katie." 164 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,959 He wasn't expecting this. 165 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,399 Definitely wasn't expecting this. 166 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,999 We have him in custody. 167 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,040 That was an important hurdle to get over. 168 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,559 I rang Paula. 169 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:02,480 Paula would come down and get the kids. 170 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,679 I went into the house, get the kids, straight out the door, 171 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:09,919 and then, when I was outside, I spoke to Christina 172 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,199 and gave her a hug, and told her to be brave 173 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,600 and everything will be OK. 174 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,239 Finally got him arrested. 175 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,240 It was a really, really good feeling. 176 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,879 Christina, Creswell's partner, was not going to be harmed. 177 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,920 You know, he'll never be able to harm her. 178 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,320 When I got him arrested, it was like... 179 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,439 It was hard. Like, I fucking got you now, 180 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,840 but the game wasn't over, it was only beginning. 181 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,120 There's a lot of tension in the air. 182 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,319 You've worked for months at this, 183 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,960 and this is it happening now, and the clock is running. 184 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,839 I'm already at the Strand Road police station preparing 185 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,199 for interviews. 186 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,439 I had been able to put together quite 187 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,679 an extensive strategy to include statements, 188 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:13,759 telecoms information, CCTV, 189 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,999 and would last for a number of days. 190 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,319 Jonathan Creswell was very much the lead 191 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,360 and only suspect in this inquiry. 192 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,439 So, Creswell comes into the interview, 193 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,919 along with his solicitor, and he has his head down, 194 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,760 he's quite sombre-looking. 195 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,079 He's putting forward this idea that this is a travesty of justice, 196 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,679 and he has been wrongly arrested. 197 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,759 He was happy to talk at the start, 198 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,959 and to give it his version of events. 199 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,360 He immediately says he was in a sexual relationship with Katie. 200 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,799 Jonathan Creswell said that his relationship with Katie 201 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,039 had been going on for a number of years, 202 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,080 and that nobody else knew about it. 203 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,519 Christina didn't know about it, according to Jonathan. 204 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,719 I was disappointed that he had brought that out. 205 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,399 It was a setback, 206 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,199 because we had hoped to hold back the presence of 207 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,800 Jonathan Creswell's semen in Katie. 208 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,959 Jonathan Creswell said that, on Sunday, 209 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,799 the 2nd of August, 2020, 210 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,639 when they returned home that night, 211 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,000 Katie and him had sex in the bedroom. 212 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,560 He said he loved her, she was his soulmate. 213 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,919 This destroyed the trump card we had. 214 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,359 Evidence of this intimate relationship was now useless 215 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,720 to us in the interview. 216 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,119 The interview team then asked Jonathan Creswell to draw out 217 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,199 how Katie was hanging, 218 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,760 and to draw out what he saw when he entered the house. 219 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,680 So, he drew the handrail, the spindles... 220 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,319 ...and how the ligature was tied up. 221 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,039 He said it was around one spindle 222 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,439 and back over the rail, and down. 223 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,679 He talked about Katie kissing the wood - 224 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:20,639 this was a reference to the bottom of the spindles on the stairs, 225 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,160 where he told us Katie's face was positioned. 226 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,799 So, for this to happen, 227 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,759 you've the exact measurements of Katie, 228 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,479 and Creswell is saying her head is here. 229 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,399 There's no sign of a ligature mark, 230 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,960 there's no sign of any damage to any of the spindles. 231 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,519 I got a ligature strap the exact same size. 232 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,039 Tried to do it as Creswell said - 233 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,079 tie it over the banister, tie it in a V-shape - 234 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,280 but the noose would've only come down to about here. 235 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,639 The ligature wasn't long enough. 236 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,839 It was out by about a foot. 237 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,400 So, what he was describing couldn't have happened. 238 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,359 As he finished drawing it, he turned to his solicitor and said, 239 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,679 "That's too short, isn't it?" 240 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,480 I knew at that point this was the lie. 241 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,479 This is not how Katie was hanging, 242 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,200 because he wouldn't be asking his solicitor if it was too short. 243 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,320 The interviewers they then asked him about Katie's phone. 244 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,759 Katie's phone was missing. 245 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,719 It did cause me concerns, 246 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,239 because phones hold so much data. 247 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,319 But during our investigation, we were able to see, 248 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,359 from cell site analysis, how Katie's phone moved, 249 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,959 especially on the morning of the 3rd of August, 250 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,480 when she went to hospital. 251 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,440 Katie's and Johnny's phone travelled to his mother's house. 252 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,519 We can see both phones coming back to Gortnessy Meadows 253 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,559 when he finds Katie. 254 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,959 We don't believe Katie had that phone at that time. 255 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,759 We believe, on that morning, 256 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,079 the phone is now with Jonathan Creswell. 257 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,559 We can then see both phones are in the car, 258 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,400 going to the Tirbracken Road to meet the ambulance. 259 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,399 At the Tirbracken Road, 260 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,919 Katie's phone is either turned off, 261 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,879 or has gone on flight mode. 262 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,919 However, we can see that Katie's phone then reconnects to the network 263 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,480 when Katie's in the hospital. 264 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,679 Katie cannot - and is not - operating this phone. 265 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,160 Somebody else has control of Katie's phone at this point. 266 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,719 The interviewers talked about that and asked him. 267 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,799 Johnny knew he was now cornered. 268 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,719 He did not lose the phone at the side of the road, 269 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,039 as he told police. 270 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,879 We are now showing Johnny he had lied to us. 271 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,519 This was huge. 272 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,520 He looked to the solicitor and asked if he could have a break. 273 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,359 Jonathan Creswell returns after 274 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,679 a short consultation with his solicitor. 275 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,160 He has something to tell them. 276 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,400 He says, "I have Katie's phone." 277 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,560 It was buried in a field where he kept his horses. 278 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,079 So, Jonathan draws a map for the interviewers to show them 279 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,040 exactly where the phone can be located. 280 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,040 This was huge for us. 281 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,199 When we interrogated the phone and see what the phone was doing 282 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,520 at the time Katie was in Creswell's car... 283 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,799 ...we could see when the Ambulance Service rang Creswell 284 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,280 and the duration of that call. 285 00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:07,119 When Creswell was on the phone to a call handler, 286 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:10,159 he advises him that he should pull over to the side of the road 287 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,519 to try and get Katie into the recovery position 288 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,599 and start doing CPR on her. 289 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,319 When he alleges he was doing his best to give her 290 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:19,599 life-saving treatment, 291 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,959 he was, in actual fact, on her phone. 292 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,560 And put it onto flight mode. 293 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,119 At a time when she was at her most vulnerable, 294 00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:31,799 his priority was to put her phone on the airplane mode, with a view 295 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,279 that it couldn't be tracked, 296 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,280 and that he could do anything with it later on when he wanted. 297 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,680 He did not want to save Katie. 298 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:57,079 Katie's text messages, as well, were assessed by the analyst. 299 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,039 The messaging from Creswell to Katie Simpson on the morning 300 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,919 of the 2nd of August, 2020, 301 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,240 were quite nasty. 302 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,200 They're horrific, the way he talks to her. 303 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,319 {\an8}He had messaged her and rang her, 304 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,560 {\an8}and she hadn't answered. 305 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,759 The messages then became more abusive. 306 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,520 It ramped up, the longer he couldn't get a hold of Katie. 307 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,279 When he arrived at that horse show, 308 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,239 he had been in a state of complete anger, 309 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,920 he'd been exchanging angry text messages with Katie. 310 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,279 Come early afternoon, 311 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,879 a fear in Katie. 312 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,359 After those messages, there's limited communication with Shane. 313 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,119 I sent Katie a few messages, 314 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:55,880 {\an8}and there were no replies to them whatsoever. 315 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,280 Creswell had ordered her then to get into the car... 316 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,119 ...and then, did not take in any way what could be described as 317 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,040 a direct route back to their home. 318 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,799 Creswell is now in possession of Katie's phone, 319 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,279 he's taken it off her. 320 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,439 We're able to track Katie and Creswell's phone 321 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,040 from the show in Lurgan. 322 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,119 We can track the phones moving in sync with the ANPR 323 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:27,800 and the movement of the vehicles. 324 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,359 At one stage, they crossed the border. 325 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,799 We can only imagine this was because Katie was being subjected 326 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,040 to an interrogation. 327 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,320 They then travelled to the horse yard. 328 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,439 Was this the place where the attack started? 329 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,440 At an area known to Creswell that he could get away with... 330 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,920 beating Katie or abusing, or raping Katie? 331 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,839 {\an8}And you see it's quite secluded, laneways and open fields 332 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,440 {\an8}where he could have taken Katie. 333 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,679 In Jonathan's interview, 334 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,919 he says he went to a beauty spot with Katie and... 335 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,840 ...where they had sexual intercourse. 336 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:29,920 We don't believe that - it's rape. 337 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,439 Whether he physically forced it or emotionally forced Katie to do it, 338 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,239 Katie felt she had no choice, 339 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,799 but it was a way to try pacifying. 340 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,800 That is rape, and that's horrendous for any person to go through. 341 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,239 Leaving the show in Lurgan, 342 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,159 to getting to the house at 20 past, half past midnight, 343 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,519 that whole period, she was in Creswell's control. 344 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,720 She could not call for help. He had her phone. 345 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,000 Shane McCloskey sends Katie... 346 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,120 ...asking, is she OK? Is she home yet? 347 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,599 It was just a simple message coming and going, er, 348 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,239 I think it was, "I'm OK", or "Everything's OK." 349 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,679 A text reply comes back, 350 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,679 "Yeah, we're just home now." 351 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,639 This is not true because, at that point, 352 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:34,880 the phones are in Claudy. 353 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,559 Shane then sends Katie another text, 354 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,799 "I thought you were annoyed with me for what happened last night." 355 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,639 The text back from Katie's phone is, 356 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,559 "What do you mean what happened last night?" 357 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:48,959 Shane replies, 358 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,440 "Because we slept together." 359 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,839 This now makes things so much more dangerous. 360 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,439 Creswell knows Katie has spent the night with Shane. 361 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:00,999 That was the turning point. 362 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,200 Creswell was no longer in control of Katie. 363 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,959 As soon as we arrested Jonathan Creswell, 364 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,079 there was a lot of people we had to speak to. 365 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,199 {\an8}These were people that were in and around Creswell 366 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,040 {\an8}and the centre of the investigation. 367 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,159 Namely Hayley Rob, Jill Robinson, 368 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,719 and Rose De Montmorency-Wright. 369 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,440 Rose shared a bedroom with Katie. 370 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,879 So, we start to look at evidence - 371 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,599 {\an8}if there is any evidence, 372 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,839 if they are more victim than suspect - 373 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,640 but we keep an open mind. 374 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,359 I got a call that Christina and Hayley wanted to see me. 375 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,079 With Creswell in custody, they wanted to come forward 376 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,999 and provide the police with information 377 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,200 they felt was relevant. 378 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,919 My impression of Hayley was someone who was vulnerable, 379 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,959 but what she was telling me was a shocking story. 380 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,719 She was also in a relationship with Johnny. 381 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,399 This was... baffling to me. 382 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,000 But telling me how Johnny had hit her in the past... 383 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,000 ...how he's abusive to her. 384 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:47,079 You just got the sense from Hayley 385 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,400 that she was totally under this guy's control... 386 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,160 ...and that she would do anything that this guy asked. 387 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,159 Christina, Jonathan's partner, 388 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,239 then started to divulge what happened. 389 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,079 Johnny took the women in a car down near the bridge in Derry. 390 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,279 Said he was going to say Katie had fallen from a horse, 391 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,399 because he'd given her a beating the night before. 392 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,279 This now meant that Rose De Mont, Jill Robinson, and Hayley 393 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,799 was withholding information 394 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,159 and perverting the course of justice. 395 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,399 Rose De Mont admitted that Johnny had told her 396 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,960 that he had beaten Katie the night before. 397 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,679 I said, "Why did you not tell police this?" 398 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,840 She said, "I wanted to have his back." 399 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,599 And I never forget her saying that in the interview, 400 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,479 "I wanted to have his back." 401 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,879 The uniformed officers got CCTV footage 402 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,400 from the house next door. 403 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,079 Why, on the CCTV, was Hayley's car 404 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,999 and Creswell's car coming back at the same time, 405 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,279 to 86 Gortnessy Meadows, 406 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,399 after Katie was put in the ambulance? 407 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,839 One of the most significant things at that point is 408 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,599 he gives the police the wrong address. 409 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,680 And this was telling for obvious reasons. 410 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,199 He needed to clean up the scene of what faced him, 411 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,880 and what would have faced police. 412 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,759 I just asked Hayley, "Had you arranged to come in at 413 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,879 "the same time as Johnny?" 414 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,399 And she goes, "Yeah, he rang me to meet me somewhere." 415 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,000 They met at a junction, and he said, "Follow me back to the house." 416 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,159 Johnny stripped off his clothes, 417 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,999 said he needed to have a cold shower, 418 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,679 because he couldn't have the steam in the house if the police came. 419 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,999 He told Hayley to put his clothes in a bag, 420 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,159 and to clean blood from the stairs. 421 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,079 I showed her the footage of her leaving the house 422 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,479 and carrying a bag, and placing it in the boot of her car. 423 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,079 And I said, "What's in the bag?" 424 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,160 And she goes, "That's Johnny's clothes." 425 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,359 She wanted to tell the police, 426 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,719 but I think it was more out of fear she couldn't. 427 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,919 Not just from Johnny, but from who was around her - 428 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,999 other people who were probably putting her under pressure, 429 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,360 such as Jill Robinson. 430 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,959 Jill Robinson was an ex-girlfriend of Jonathan Creswell. 431 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,279 She's slightly older, and she continued to keep 432 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,640 her relationship with him. 433 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,359 She goes with Hayley from Derry back to Omagh, 434 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,119 which is about 40 miles, to wash the clothes. 435 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,079 Why take the clothes all the way from Derry 40 miles to 436 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,839 another laundrette to get them washed? 437 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,319 I can't imagine any circumstances 438 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,759 {\an8}where someone would ask me to go and wash clothes 439 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,880 after a friend was covered in bruises from head to toe. 440 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:46,359 We've arranged to bring Jill Robinson into custody. 441 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:48,599 Jill maintained that she had done nothing wrong. 442 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,919 She accepted that she had taken these clothes to get them cleaned. 443 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,359 "That's what I would normally do for Jonathan." 444 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,679 I believe that Jill Robinson protected Jonathan Creswell. 445 00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,120 She particularly liked him. 446 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,519 One of the other strands of evidence against Jill Robinson 447 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,119 was that she had deleted messages on her phone 448 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,879 the date that Katie went into hospital. 449 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,839 The reason that she gave for deleting them was that 450 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,399 it was to free up storage on her phone. 451 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,799 However, there were messages on the 3rd of August 452 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,159 to other people which she had kept. 453 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,319 There's a distinct difference between two sets of women 454 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,520 in this investigation. 455 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,279 Both Jill and Rose, on countless occasions, were asked, 456 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,839 "Are you under control? 457 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,239 "Are you in fear of Jonathan Creswell?" 458 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,959 "No. No, never." 459 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,640 They were never in fear of Jonathon Creswell. 460 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,480 After Katie had died, Rose went to live with Jill. 461 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,479 And I find that speaks volumes. 462 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,239 That you've these two women, 463 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,199 who I believe were not controlled by Jonathan Creswell, 464 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,159 were not scared of Jonathan Creswell, 465 00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,440 end up living together. 466 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,599 A file was sent to the PPS. 467 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,239 The PPS made the decision to prosecute Hayley, 468 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,319 Jill, and Rose for their actions 469 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,320 after Katie had gone into hospital. 470 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,879 The evidence against Creswell was overwhelming. 471 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,559 The senior prosecutor just put his hands up and said, 472 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,879 "OK, you can charge him." 473 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,959 I couldn't believe it when they said yes. 474 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,880 You just can't believe you've done it. 475 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,279 I read out the charge, did he have anything to say after the caution? 476 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,480 And he said, "No." 477 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,719 The public prosecution service had agreed with me that 478 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,920 they believed Jonathan Creswell had killed Katie Simpson. 479 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,440 But then, he tried to get bail. 480 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,000 The defence barristers were trying to say this wasn't murder. 481 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,919 It was a largely circumstantial case, 482 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,799 and it is very difficult to keep somebody in custody 483 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,439 on a strong murder charge, 484 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,760 let alone even a circumstantial case. 485 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,799 Due to the amount of witnesses that we need to protect, 486 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,719 and victims we need to protect, 487 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,800 we were gravely concerned when Jonathan Creswell got bail. 488 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,279 It was such a shock. 489 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,319 Christina was living in my house, 490 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,680 so he was let out of prison. 491 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,439 And my niece had to take two young children and flee, 492 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,159 and move to Armagh. 493 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,519 {\an8}Why does the woman that has been abused 494 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,360 {\an8}have to get up and leave? 495 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,879 Jonathan now would have been free to further intimidate 496 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,199 the females that he was controlling, 497 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,360 and conceal or damage any other evidence. 498 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,759 Jonathan kind of turned against me. 499 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,119 He rang me. 500 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,959 He was just calling me everything underneath the sun. 501 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,519 And I just kept saying, like, "What's this about?" You know? 502 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,879 {\an8}He just kept telling me to shut my fucking mouth, you know? 503 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,319 That was the word he just kept repeating, 504 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:14,800 and I didn't do nothing wrong. 505 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,119 We were trying to get Johnny's movements restricted 506 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,959 to certain counties. 507 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,919 The fact that Johnny was still out, 508 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,480 we had a real concern. 509 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,639 I was in my local supermarket, and I was walking round 510 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,760 and bumped into him. 511 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,999 I don't think he recognised me right away and he says, 512 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,759 "Oh, I'm sorry," and I says, 513 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,280 "Well, you will be sorry, cos - you murdering bastard." 514 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,879 He was so arrogant, in a way, 515 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,519 where he looked me straight in the eye and said 516 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320 "I never done anything wrong." 517 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,679 He walked off shouting at me. 518 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,960 I could hardly drive home, I was just shaking. 519 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,719 With him being let out on bail, 520 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,279 I think they need to look at 521 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,039 how it affects the family, the victims. 522 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,160 Why let him out? 523 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,639 {\an8}On the first day of the trial, 524 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,200 {\an8}Katie's family were all there. 525 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,799 And it was a sort of anxious feeling of, 526 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,279 "Are we ready, as a family, to go through all this? 527 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,159 "To listen to all this?" 528 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,919 You just had to be strong and do it, and just keeping in your mind 529 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,559 {\an8}that this was all for Katie, 530 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,639 {\an8}all to get him sentenced the right way, 531 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,720 and do everything right by the law. 532 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,759 From the moment I saw that article, 533 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,480 my life has been laser-focused on this child. 534 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,719 {\an8}The past few years since 2021 have been 535 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,400 like living in a horror movie. 536 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,320 Just waiting for... answers. 537 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,279 I wanted validation that what he did to me was wrong as well. 538 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,879 I was hoping and hoping, and hoping that some other woman 539 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,279 was going to come out and say, 540 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,319 "Actually, this happened to me, as well." 541 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,279 The only people who could really understand why I was 542 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,799 so focused on it, and why I was wishing for justice so hard 543 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,480 were the likes of James. 544 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,719 It's a tense day, as what's going to happen. 545 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,559 It was the culmination of a significant amount of work 546 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,119 by the major investigation team over a number of years. 547 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,119 When he arrived, he did not look like a man 548 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,559 who has been accused of murder. 549 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,360 Never looked at anybody, not a worry in the world. 550 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,919 What's his defence angle going to be? 551 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,240 What's his story? 552 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,280 I was aware his barristers were urging him to plead guilty. 553 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,519 He had continued to protest his innocence 554 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,760 {\an8}when he was not for entering a plea bargain or pleading guilty. 555 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,319 At the start of the trial, 556 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,280 Jonathan Creswell pleaded not guilty. 557 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,599 {\an8}On the first day, when you heard all the evidence being read out, 558 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:17,840 it was tough to listen to. 559 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,159 We now had the upper hand, 560 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,359 and he had no control over what's going to happen 561 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,999 over the next number of weeks. 562 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,079 The prosecution said on day one of that trial 563 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,199 that Katie was murdered after Creswell flew into a jealous rage 564 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,280 and beat her to death. 565 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,079 In a nutshell, the evidence that we had 566 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,720 against Creswell was overwhelming. 567 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,879 The cover-up that happened, he changed his clothes, 568 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,040 had a shower... 569 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,000 ...got somebody to clean the blood, got his clothes washed... 570 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,079 ...turning the phone onto flight mode, 571 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,720 as he's pretending to do CPR. 572 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000 The hiding of Katie's phone. 573 00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:17,439 The very important evidence of the drawing of the inside of the stairs 574 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,879 where it couldn't have happened in the way that he had suggested. 575 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:21,880 That was pivotal. 576 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,119 And also, the witness statements 577 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,760 {\an8}from people who'd been involved, who'd been around. 578 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:38,959 I was wishing that this trial was going to see justice for Abby, 579 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,639 for Katie, for any woman or child 580 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,559 who has been at the hands of Johnny 581 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,399 that didn't speak out. 582 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,639 He was so confident. 583 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,559 Nobody left that court that day thinking he was innocent. 584 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,879 And Johnny left the court that day... 585 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,080 ...knowing that he wasn't going to beat this. 586 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,479 I was asked to go and give evidence on day two. 587 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,239 Which was terrifying. 588 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,199 {\an8}You don't know what's going to happen. 589 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,479 {\an8}And, like, you get there that morning and... 590 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,439 ...everybody's there, 591 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,039 the cameras, the photographers. 592 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,079 We travelled to the court. 593 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,039 When we arrived in, we went into the relative's room, 594 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,719 and Katie's mother was crying. 595 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,839 She was upset. 596 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,119 I got a call from a police officer, and her words were, 597 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,079 "Have you heard what's happened to Johnny Creswell?" 598 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,319 One of the officers came in and told us that 599 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,920 he had took his own life. 600 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:53,799 The courts took that chance and let an abuser, 601 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,879 a paedophile, a murderer, out on bail. 602 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,880 And I was fucking angry. Erm, really angry. 603 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,559 We've, as a family, felt it was 604 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,519 just one let down after the other. 605 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,199 I believe the judge should have kept him in after 606 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,120 our opening statement that day. 607 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,479 Why was he not supervised, or why was he not held 608 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,919 until this was over, you know? 609 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,399 We know that he left quite a lengthy suicide note. 610 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,719 The details of that have not been made public. 611 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,599 I believe Creswell hung himself. 612 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,199 And the one thing I would like to see is his suicide note. 613 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,040 I would like to see what he wrote in it. 614 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:41,159 I felt sick. 615 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,360 Must've cried for about an hour long. 616 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,719 Because the fucking coward... ruined our chance of justice. 617 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,879 It was probably one of the most... 618 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,839 ...devastating days for everybody. 619 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,359 Everybody involved. 620 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,079 And some people say they're happy that he's gone, 621 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,439 and they're glad he did it, 622 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,200 and they're glad he's dead. But... 623 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,599 ...not for us. 624 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,359 Not for the people who got hurt. 625 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,479 Not for us, who never got the justice. 626 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,999 Everybody was robbed by this bastard. 627 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,599 You know, there was no end, and it just came to a stop. 628 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,600 There was no closure. 629 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,679 He needed control, and, as we see in 630 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,720 {\an8}his relationship with Katie, he had lost control. 631 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,479 He had lost absolutely everything. 632 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,839 The fact is that maybe that was always his intention. 633 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,879 You know, finally, Katie was going to get her story 634 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,880 put into the public. 635 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,359 The motive for Katie's death was jealousy. 636 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,279 I think Creswell was a very jealous, manipulative, 637 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,399 vindictive individual who struck out when he didn't get his way. 638 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,319 Katie was a victim. 639 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,559 When she went against what Jonathan Creswell wanted, 640 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,439 and decided to try and make a life of her own with somebody else, 641 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,080 she was punished - and punished very severely for it. 642 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,199 The case closed - however, all the women who pleaded guilty 643 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,759 to perverting the course of justice and withholding information, 644 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,280 their sentencing had to be done. 645 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,519 {\an8}Jill Robinson was given a custodial sentence of 16 months 646 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,559 {\an8}for perverting a course of justice, 647 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,559 {\an8}which was suspended for two years. 648 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,959 {\an8}Rose De Montmorency-Wright pleaded guilty to withholding information, 649 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,199 {\an8}and she was sentenced to eight months, 650 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,560 {\an8}suspended for two years. 651 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,519 {\an8}Hayley Robb was given a custodial sentence of two years 652 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,999 {\an8}for perverting the course of justice, 653 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,039 {\an8}which was suspended for two years, 654 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,039 {\an8}and she was given 12 months for withholding information, 655 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,000 {\an8}which was also suspended for two years. 656 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,400 They all got a suspended sentence. 657 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,479 He had got away by murdering himself. 658 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,359 Now these three women were standing in court. 659 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,600 They protected him. 660 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,839 And that was our last straw. 661 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,999 Should two of those women have walked out of the court? 662 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,280 I don't think so. 663 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,199 This was a challenging case. 664 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,399 It was a team effort from a lot of people who were all interested 665 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,080 in showing exactly what Jonathan Creswell was. 666 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,079 James Brannigan sought to fight for the truth, 667 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,719 {\an8}because he was an honest copper - 668 00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:33,359 {\an8}and I hope that doesn't sound too crass a term, 669 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,719 or flippant. 670 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,359 But he had a conscience about his work. 671 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,439 He took his work seriously, 672 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,759 and from the moment he was first engaged in the case, 673 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,039 he knew it was a murder. 674 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,199 He did everything in his power that he could to rectify that 675 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,879 and remedy the case, and put it back on track. 676 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,319 I would like to think that some good has come from our investigation, 677 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,319 and that there is an element of closure - 678 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,879 albeit Katie's family never got to see Creswell face the music, 679 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,559 with regard to how he behaved and what he had done to Katie. 680 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,959 But I would like to think that it has shone a light on some behaviours 681 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,919 within the horse riding industry, 682 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,639 and that perhaps the next person who behaves as Creswell did 683 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,360 may be called out a lot sooner. 684 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,839 If this happened - if I got that phone call on 685 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,719 the 11th of August this year, 686 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:23,920 I'd do the same again. 687 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,359 You were the first person to ever phone from the police 688 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,359 the whole organisation. Was I? yeah. 689 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,839 To ever phone any member of the family. 690 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,799 On the phone that day, you said, 691 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,799 "How are yous?" 692 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,679 Like that was... unreal. 693 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,800 Nobody had asked how we were. 694 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,599 It's not a week goes by where we don't talk about Katie in the yard, 695 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,879 like, and there's pictures of her up in the cabin there and stuff. 696 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,359 {\an8}And, like every week you get away, 697 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,399 {\an8}we bought a horse, we named her My Girl Katie, 698 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,840 and that was named after her. 699 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,759 {\an8}Yeah, it was Katie's life, 700 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,439 {\an8}and Katie had so much to give. 701 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,360 She had so much more. 702 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,679 Your fight for the truth is because right is right, 703 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,279 and wrong is wrong. 704 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,079 You know, Katie doesn't have a voice now. 705 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,559 The more awareness of abuse and coercive control, 706 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,520 it needs to be talked about more. 707 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,599 If it helps somebody else... 708 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:39,760 ...it's all worth it. 709 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,159 Maybe that's something, as I say, the police in Derry need to look at. 710 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,119 You know, why did it take a team from a different district 711 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,119 to come in and do their job? 712 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,279 There's so much evidence here. 713 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,239 The shocking thing I think about - 714 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:58,919 all that evidence was available on the 9th of August. Yeah. 715 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:04,479 And it was all... there for them on that day. Yeah. 716 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,160 There were so many red flags. 717 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,000 Why did they miss all that? 718 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,479 The Chief Constable John Butcher rightly confirmed that the PSNI 719 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,400 had failed the Simpson family. 720 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,639 In the aftermath of the release of the Police Ombudsman's report, 721 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,839 he was rightly critical of 722 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,440 the previous policing decision-making in this case. 723 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,160 The policing investigation let the Simpson family down badly. 724 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,439 But there has been blame attached to the equestrian world, 725 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,039 and I have to agree with that. 726 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,359 Jonathan Creswell was given free rein to access 727 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,720 young girls through ponies. 728 00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:59,959 When I checked through to see what statements were made by anyone 729 00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:02,879 in any position of authority within the equestrian world 730 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,039 to call out what happened here, 731 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,719 with the notable exception of one or two persons, 732 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,640 otherwise, the equestrian world has been silent. 733 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,959 Well, I commend James Brannigan for his efforts. 734 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,359 From a policing perspective, 735 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,479 he stuck his head above the parapet - and he paid a price for that. 736 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,919 I just think the police force have lost a good man, 737 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:28,920 a good detective. 738 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,519 Over the course of my career, 739 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,359 I've received a number of threats against my life. 740 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,919 Doing this case has changed my life, it's changed my career. 741 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,840 I've had to leave the job I love so much. 742 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,839 I've found it very hard to forget about this, 743 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,680 and how it affected me in the job. 744 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,919 Both inside and outside the police, 745 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,879 James Brannigan continues to fight for the Simpson family. 746 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,799 I want to have some legacy from what's happened to Katie - 747 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,719 and in that, I'm setting up a charity which is going 748 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,480 to focus on hidden homicides. 749 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,639 What it's going to do is, for families who find themselves 750 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,239 in the same position as us, 751 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:15,599 even if it's just one member of the family feels 752 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,359 that it's not suicide, it may not be. 753 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,719 What they'll do is they'll go to the charity, 754 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,240 and the charity will direct them on the right path. 755 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,359 James, I just can't thank you enough. 756 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,359 And that's from the bottom of our heart. 757 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,279 I'm just glad for you and... the rest of family that 758 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,079 you know Katie didn't kill herself. 759 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,280 That's it. Yeah. 760 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,240 Thank you. SHE CHUCKLES TEARFULLY 761 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,759 People need to know what happened to Katie. 762 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,319 People need to know what to do 763 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,079 if their loved ones are in this situation. 764 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,239 People need to know what to do if they feel police aren't acting, 765 00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:57,840 and make sure this never happens again to any other person. 766 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,199 That everything that Katie and her family went through 767 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,400 isn't in vain. 768 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:06,880 This is worth doing. 769 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,439 I'd like Katie to be remembered as a beautiful daughter, 770 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,960 a beautiful sister, a beautiful granddaughter, niece. 771 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,800 She was full of fun, full of devilment... 772 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,960 ...and just a beautiful, beautiful girl. Mm-hm. 773 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,720 Subtitles by Red Bee Media 62830

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