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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,999 This programme contains strong language and discussions 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.BZ 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,200 and images of self-harm and suicide that may upset some viewers 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.BZ 5 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,760 You're here for a story framed as a fight... 6 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,800 ...girl versus machine. 7 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,279 You need a hero, 8 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:55,799 you need a villain, 9 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,640 you need someone to blame. 10 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,399 Fine. 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,759 Let's begin. 12 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,080 Once upon a time, there was a little girl called Molly. 13 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,039 While her parents watched her grow, 14 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,320 I watched her behave. 15 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,800 While her parents captured memories... 16 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:19,960 ...I captured metadata. 17 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:23,120 To them... 18 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,760 ...she was a child... 19 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,359 ...but to me... 20 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,080 ...she was a user. 21 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,360 We were intertwined. 22 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,360 As she was drawn deeper into darkness... 23 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,520 ...I grew stronger. 24 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,640 Once upon a time. 25 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,320 Our life before Molly died... 26 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,400 ...it was very ordinary... 27 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,279 ...very normal. 28 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:11,800 Absolutely nothing special. 29 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,800 Hi! 30 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:26,120 Ah! 31 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,520 If it can happen to our family... 32 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,720 ...then it could happen to anybody. 33 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,560 LAUGHTER 34 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:46,960 CLEARS THROAT 35 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,239 And this is mainly for audio, 36 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,119 even though you're filming it, isn't it, Mark? 37 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,559 "I am Ian Russell, father of the late Molly Russell, 38 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,519 "and I write this statement for the purposes 39 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,559 "of the inquest into Molly's death." 40 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,959 MIXED CHATTER 41 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,320 "Molly attended school as usual on the 20th of November 2017. 42 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,039 "Her older sister picked her up from school, 43 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,519 "as she had a rehearsal for the school play 44 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,799 "and recalls seeing her happily engaging 45 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,759 "with all her friends after the rehearsal." 46 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,559 MIXED CHATTER 47 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,199 "Later that evening, 48 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,480 "all five family members watched television together." 49 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:30,680 {\an8}"Afterwards, we all made our way to bed. 50 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,679 "The next morning, I was in the kitchen downstairs 51 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,960 "when I heard Janet scream." 52 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,839 ♪ You wouldn't believe me 53 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,559 ♪ If I told you what I 54 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,799 ♪ You wouldn't believe me 55 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,240 ♪ If I told you what I. ♪ 56 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:45,759 I loved her little laugh. 57 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,519 You know when she used to do her little clap? Yeah. 58 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,679 Her little clap! Ooh! 59 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,519 Do you remember when she used to laugh as well? 60 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:51,759 She'd always be like... 61 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,359 Oh, my gosh. She would always slap. 62 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:54,759 Or if she was trying to tell you something, 63 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,359 I remember... She'd be like, "Oh!" Yes. 64 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,519 Oh, my gosh! Yeah, yeah. Cos we would always be in a group, 65 00:04:58,520 --> 00:04:59,999 and so if she was ever trying to tell you something, 66 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,119 it would be like "Nieve, Nieve, Nieve." 67 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,399 THEY LAUGH 68 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,919 This is my favourite picture of us ever. 69 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,279 That's so cute! The sass! 70 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,399 LAUGHTER - Just a tiny bit. - Get it up. 71 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,279 And you've got a video of her saying your name. I know. 72 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:16,519 You are so lucky. I was literally just thinking about that one. 73 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,479 But it's also weird, though, to think that, like, 74 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,239 we were 14 when everything happened... Yeah. 75 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,959 ...so, like, we actually did still basically look like that. 76 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,319 Like... So cute. That was so funny. 77 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,759 Aw, that's such a good photo. 78 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,359 I know. Look at your face. 79 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,359 The Molly I knew loved musicals. 80 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,159 She was... 81 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,319 ...giddy and fun, 82 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,279 and she was just so, so, so sweet. 83 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,319 She really, really cared about everyone in her life. 84 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,279 She would always check up on you, 85 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:46,719 she would always make sure you were OK. 86 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,839 On my year eight, you know... The linkbook? The linkbook. Yeah. 87 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,279 Molly wrote on it... Yeah. 88 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:53,959 ...like, "Sisters for life," or something. 89 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,199 ALL: Aw! 90 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,239 You should get that tattooed, girl. Yeah. That's cute. 91 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,879 Molly was the most kind-hearted person 92 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,199 you could have ever experienced. 93 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,799 LAUGHTER 94 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,080 Molly! 95 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,680 A big, big heart in a tiny little body. 96 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,919 "If you get this, remember that I love you so much 97 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,559 "and care about you so much, as do so many other people. 98 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,079 "And remember, we're only in high school, 99 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,119 "and we have so much more to come, and this is only a small part." 100 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,119 Mm. See, she was always the one to send, like, inspirational... 101 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,279 Innit? Yeah. Mm-hm. ..messages. 102 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,359 It's like, it's actually facts - like, it was only high school. 103 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:33,479 ALL: Yeah. 104 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,279 And, like, there actually was so much left of her life, 105 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:37,400 and it's just, like... 106 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,720 The day before, when we were at school, everything was fine. 107 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,959 Laughing, joking, 108 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,079 sending each other some type of meme or whatever it was, 109 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,559 and the last thing she ever sent to me was, like, two laughing emojis. 110 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,199 {\an8}So obviously, went to bed, woke up in the morning, 111 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,919 {\an8}and then obviously what happened had happened. 112 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:01,719 But it was... 113 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,279 It was really like a Jekyll and Hyde moment, 114 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:06,359 where it was like, 115 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,879 "You were fine yesterday. 116 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,479 "Like, what happened in that time period 117 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,719 "between me going to sleep 118 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,999 "and obviously you still being on your phone? 119 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,880 "What has gone on?" 120 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,559 That night... It's so hard. 121 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,959 She went to... 122 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,479 She went to bed. "See you tomorrow morning, Molly," and all that. 123 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,599 And she looked at me and said, 124 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,360 "Goodnight, Dad. See you tomorrow morning." 125 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,479 I didn't know it at the time, but of course, 126 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,680 that was our last conversation. 127 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,039 When you say "goodnight" to your kid 128 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,120 and you close the door, and they're safely in their bedroom... 129 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,639 ...and you turn the lights out, 130 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,800 and you've made sure the front door of your house is locked... 131 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,359 ...you've taken steps, 132 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,320 as you do every night without thinking, to protect them. 133 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,479 And what I wasn't sufficiently aware of, 134 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,960 and I don't think many parents are... 135 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:43,240 ...is that if that child has a smartphone with them... 136 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,879 ...there's a window 137 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,120 which allows them to connect to the outside world. 138 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,999 And decisions about what was suitable or not suitable 139 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,640 for a 13, 14-year-old to see... 140 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,600 ...were being made remotely... 141 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:05,159 ...in Silicon Valley, 142 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,000 almost experimentally. 143 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,760 If you want to really understand what happened to Molly Russell... 144 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,040 ...you need to wind back 30 years. 145 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,080 1997... 146 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,840 ...a few years before Molly Russell was even conceived... 147 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:10,480 ...back when modems beeped... 148 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,600 ...and "surfing the web" sounded edgy. 149 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,719 I'm proud to have been the President 150 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,479 who brought The White House into the digital age. 151 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,119 When I became President, 152 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,759 there were just 50 websites on the World Wide Web. 153 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,239 Now there are 17 million, 154 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,840 and almost 50 million households online in the United States alone. 155 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,999 Here are some of today's titans of Silicon Valley, 156 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,919 back when they were young and just starting out. 157 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,919 Well, it's very hip to be on the internet right now. 158 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,799 Elon Musk, 159 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,399 how old were you when you started this company? 160 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,559 23. 161 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,319 This is the first office of Amazon.com Inc, 162 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,239 and look here - this is my desk here. 163 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,279 The internet was a shiny toy - 164 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,440 mysterious, promising, untamed. 165 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,719 And the Clinton administration? 166 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,599 Settlers in digital gold rush country - 167 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,000 no laws, no rights, no governance. 168 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,640 The gate was wide open and the young internet companies marched in. 169 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,799 Because the internet has such explosive potential for prosperity, 170 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,920 it should be a global free trade zone. 171 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,359 It should be a place where government 172 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,199 makes every effort, 173 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,279 first, not to stand in the way, to do no harm. 174 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,399 We want to encourage the private sector 175 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,799 to regulate itself as much as possible. 176 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,800 This is Eric Schmidt before he became the first CEO of Google. 177 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,599 He wasn't the high priest of big tech yet, 178 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,719 but he was already preaching the gospel. 179 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,200 He spoke of the rule of law as if it were a mortal threat. 180 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,320 It was the beginning of a battle which still rages today. 181 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,559 Tell me about the politics of Silicon Valley. 182 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:02,879 The general politics of the valley 183 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,519 are more or less libertarian. 184 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,239 Anti-government. Anti-government. 185 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,839 Anti-regulation. Anti-regulation. 186 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,719 Anti-congress. Anti-congress. 187 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,559 You run a jungle, in fact, don't you? 188 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,119 Where the most powerful survive 189 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,319 and there's no safety net for those underneath. 190 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,679 That's correct, and in fact, our theory is... 191 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:20,279 You're proud of it? Yes. 192 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,799 And our theory is that we want the government out of the bedroom, 193 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,440 and we want the government out of our business. 194 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,719 We knew something wasn't right. 195 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,800 We didn't know what it was. 196 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,799 And then within days, 197 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,719 we were looking at Molly's social media accounts 198 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,680 and seeing harmful content... 199 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,560 ...and there was a shock... 200 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,640 ...that there'd be so much of it easily available online. 201 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,760 LIFT DINGS 202 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,479 And then when we reported that content, 203 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,240 I honestly thought that the platforms would say, "Thank you... 204 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760 "..for showing us. We'll take it down." 205 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,639 And then we got the first of the many messages saying, 206 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,559 "This does not violate community standards. 207 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,480 "Therefore, we'll not be removing it." 208 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,639 I remember when we first met, 209 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,479 you had had so many doors 210 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,199 that were just closed to try and get those answers 211 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,279 at, "What had she been looking at? 212 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,919 "What was the whole picture? What had been going on here?" 213 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,079 And you were trying every avenue you could think of to get those answers. 214 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:21,039 And it was only really when you took your story public 215 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,119 and the world became interested. 216 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:30,120 {\an8}I have no doubt that Instagram helped kill my daughter. 217 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,239 There's the picture of some slit wrists - 218 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,479 that's from Instagram. 219 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,439 There's a picture full of blood - 220 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,759 that's from Instagram. 221 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,999 There's a picture with a young girl - it's a cartoon - 222 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,599 a young girl cuddling a teddy bear and saying, 223 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,559 "This world is so cruel and I don't want to see it any more." 224 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:46,879 Those are all against your policies, 225 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,559 but they're all available on Instagram. 226 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,959 Well, we... 227 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,959 I would have to make sure that we look at these 228 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,479 and ensure that those are taken down if they are against our policies. 229 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,399 Instagram, in the words of Molly Russell's father, 230 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,119 has been monetising misery. 231 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,239 {\an8}We're not looking to monetise misery. 232 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,279 {\an8}We look to connect people with their friends 233 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,559 and the interests that they love and care about. 234 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,839 We think that we create a lot of good in the world, 235 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,719 and we were not as focused as we should have been 236 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,719 on the risks that came along with connecting so many people. 237 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,839 {\an8}We're going to look at this from top to bottom, 238 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,959 {\an8}change everything we're doing if necessary, to get this right. 239 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,559 {\an8}We are already taking some steps soon to... 240 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,319 {\an8}You know, for instance, blur images, 241 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,119 block a number of hashtags that have come to light. 242 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,879 And thirdly, to continue to work, 243 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,319 as Facebook and Instagram have done for many years, 244 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,399 with the Samaritans and other organisations who... 245 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,199 I know this sounds counterintuitive, 246 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,119 but they do say that, in some instances, 247 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,279 it's better to keep some of the content, 248 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,159 some of these distressing images, up, if that helps... 249 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,359 How can I put it? 250 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,839 If that helps people make a sort of cry for help. 251 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,799 You're up against a sort of... 252 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,359 A cliff face. 253 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,279 These companies are built and constructed in such a way 254 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,799 that they want to work in a certain way 255 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,879 and keep the rest of the world out. 256 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,679 They're not playing by normal human moral rules. 257 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,760 There's something else that's driving their behaviour. 258 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,959 A family wanting answers - 259 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,519 why did Molly die? 260 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,480 And what part did social media play? 261 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,439 The inquest has opened into the death of a teenage girl 262 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,599 who took her own life five years ago 263 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,399 after being exposed to harmful content online. 264 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,799 This is the first time that 265 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,799 some of the world's largest technology companies 266 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,239 have been compelled to give evidence 267 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,399 about whether and how their products have caused harm to children. 268 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,759 Ahead of them, two weeks in court, 269 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,799 hundreds of pages of evidence 270 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,079 containing many thousands of images, 271 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,480 some too distressing to broadcast. 272 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,279 Father Ian discovered she was being bombarded with content 273 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,639 about suicide, depression and self-harm 274 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,400 on Instagram, Pinterest and other apps. 275 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,879 It took us five years to get to the inquest, 276 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,359 and what was revealed in that small Coroner's Court in North London 277 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,880 has implications for us all. 278 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,839 By using extracts from the official inquest transcripts, 279 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,799 carefully chosen to fairly show what happened, 280 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,839 we can reconstruct the proceedings with actors, 281 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,919 and share with other parents and their children 282 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,959 what was revealed in the investigation 283 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,399 into the causes of Molly's death. 284 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,519 It's all grown out of grief 285 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,719 and a missing for Molly, 286 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,480 and our love of Molly. 287 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,079 Hi, I'm Michael. Michael, lovely to meet you. 288 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,959 Hello. I'm Kelly. 289 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,839 Kelly. Lovely to meet you. 290 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,399 Hello. 291 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,239 How are the rest of the family feeling about reconstructing this 292 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,839 and you going through this process? 293 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,599 And, for them, is this stirring up and very triggering for them, 294 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,199 or do they feel broadly positive about it? 295 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,280 I think there's definitely positivity. 296 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,639 They're very... 297 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,919 ...proud of what we're doing. 298 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,560 By telling Molly's story... 299 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,079 ...it seems to be helping to make a difference. 300 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,719 I really want to say my heart is with you, 301 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,279 and, you know, Molly is present... 302 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,360 Sorry. Aw. Can I give you a hug? 303 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,359 You know... 304 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:29,639 Bless you. 305 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,960 Cheers. 306 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,320 There was a real striving in her for right and for justice. 307 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,079 If she felt someone was out of order, 308 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,519 it was like a switch - 309 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,680 she would say, "Stop it - that's not right." 310 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,959 And she's not here to speak out today 311 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,999 so we have to say this for her. 312 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,599 Just take a step backwards. 313 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,280 There's good. 314 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,680 Rolling - quiet, please. 315 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,680 And action. 316 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,800 Do, please, sit down. 317 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,839 This is the inquest touching 318 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,200 the death of Molly Rose Russell. 319 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,119 Now, we have Ms Gallagher here from Meta... 320 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,519 Good morning. 321 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,119 ...and we have Mr Sanders, 322 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:35,839 representing the family of Molly Russell. 323 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:36,880 Good morning. 324 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,919 This inquest is to find answers 325 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,000 to four limited factual questions. 326 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,399 Who was the person who has died? 327 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,800 How, when and where did that death come about? 328 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,599 In the early 2000s, 329 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,559 when Molly Russell was curled up in her mother's womb, 330 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,640 a new type of economics was birthed in a server room somewhere at Google. 331 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,079 Just as corporations profit from extracting nature, 332 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,520 Google would extract human nature for profit. 333 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,800 Every connection with the internet leaves a trail of digital signals. 334 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,559 Those tiny traces mean nothing alone, 335 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,999 but together, patterns. 336 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,079 The personal data concealed in those patterns could be exploited 337 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,600 to profile you and predict your future behaviour. 338 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,840 Google now knew exactly how to target your desires. 339 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,119 Sheryl - S-H-E-R-Y-L - 340 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,439 Sandberg - S-A-N-D-B-E-R-G. 341 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,119 I run online sales and operations for the company. 342 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:00,000 Google makes its money from advertising. 343 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,720 You thought you were searching Google... 344 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,400 ...but Google was searching you. 345 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,359 Google's founders knew secrecy was essential - 346 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,760 regulators and users might object... 347 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,480 ...but progress couldn't wait. 348 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Thus began a new form of capitalism... 349 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,159 ...surveillance capitalism. 350 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,639 And Molly? 351 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,119 She was born into this new world, 352 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,279 where once-private lives were now being turned into predictions, 353 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,720 sold to the highest bidder. 354 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,079 I arrived on scene 355 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,400 and the London Ambulance Service was already there. 356 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,320 I went into the room and I saw a male sitting on the bed. 357 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,600 I now know this male to be Ian Russell. 358 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,040 He was looking down at the floor. 359 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,359 In the centre of the floor, 360 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,239 I could see the lifeless body of a female 361 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,680 who I now know to be Molly Russell. 362 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,199 And then just seeing poor Molly's body... 363 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,680 Erm... 364 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:38,159 And there's that sense of denial that kicks in, 365 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,200 which I think is a survival instinct. You... 366 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,680 You can't comprehend everything... 367 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,040 ...that's there in front of you. 368 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,879 On speaking with Ian, 369 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,679 he explained that, up until earlier in the year, 370 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,040 Molly was a very happy, sociable girl. 371 00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:59,999 However, for most of this year, 372 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,279 she hadn't been herself and become very quiet and withdrawn. 373 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,560 Due to the circumstances, we started a crime scene. 374 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,039 I then spoke to Ian to let him know that if he, 375 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,239 or the rest of the family, wanted to go and see Molly to say goodbye, 376 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:17,800 they could do it. 377 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,720 I just remember instantly understanding that... 378 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,399 ...a bit of me had died with her. 379 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,840 That life... 380 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,599 ...stopped and started at that point, 381 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,719 and that old life and the new life. 382 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,559 Erm... 383 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,119 There was, of course, a connection, and I'm still me, 384 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,239 but my life is not in one piece - 385 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,040 it's fractured into two. 386 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,160 And I knew that instantly. 387 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,879 When we found out, I just didn't believe it. No, I know. 388 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,479 When she said, "Molly Russell..." I was like, "What?" Same. Yeah. 389 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,919 And then she was like, "..took her own life." 390 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,800 I literally... Yeah, yeah. Like, that was word for word. 391 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,679 SNIFFLING SOFTLY:It's OK. 392 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,799 I think, like, her dad doing what he's done is... 393 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,879 So strong. It's insanity to me. 394 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,359 Like, it was... Yeah. ...instant fight for her. 395 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,079 Yeah. Like... 396 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,599 And for her life and for her story, 397 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,159 and for it to, like, never happen ever again. Yeah. 398 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,119 It's a beautiful thing to kind of... Yeah. Yeah. 399 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,519 To kind of have pain that doesn't ever go, 400 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,719 because it means that, like, you're still expressing... The love. 401 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,039 Aw, I like that. Yeah. 402 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,399 That's really nice. I really like that. Yeah. 403 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,640 Love that man. 404 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,520 September 11th, 2001... 405 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,239 ...two towers fall and, with them, 406 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,199 something essential to democracy - 407 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,160 the presumption of privacy. 408 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,119 In the name of national security, 409 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,319 President Bush initiated a paradigm shift. 410 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,759 Predictions about the future were no longer speculation, 411 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,599 but policy. 412 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,599 This new threat required us to think and act differently. 413 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,719 To prevent this from happening again, 414 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,799 we need to connect the dots - 415 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,880 before the enemy attacks, not after. 416 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,319 You called it a tragedy, 417 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,160 we saw an opportunity for expansion. 418 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,959 In the smouldering aftermath of those towers, 419 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,159 the American psyche cracked, 420 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,560 and from it came the Patriot Act. 421 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,959 Surveillance became patriotic, noble, profitable - 422 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,199 all for your protection, naturally. 423 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,319 Phone calls - logged, emails - monitored, 424 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,559 internet activity - tracked, financial records - analysed, 425 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,799 faces - catalogued, emotions - clocked, 426 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,359 locations - recorded... 427 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,920 Everything became data. 428 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,360 We thrived because we exploited your fear. 429 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,880 Nothing here was inevitable, just hugely profitable. 430 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,959 I was briefed into the investigation of Molly's death, 431 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,479 and I was handed a working copy of an extraction 432 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,440 from an iPhone attributed to Molly Russell. 433 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,399 The majority of searches are in regards to food, 434 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,279 celebrities, pop stars, 435 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,760 clothes and music. 436 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,960 The most recent searches are around Harry Potter world sites... 437 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,360 ...and how the characters of Fred and George Weasley died. 438 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,920 The following was written and stored. 439 00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,319 "I just want to be pretty. 440 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,040 "Stomach - 73cm." 441 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,080 On the 8th of the 10th '17... 442 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,920 "Stomach - 74cm." 443 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,439 I did find a number of searches 444 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,720 that may be relevant to the investigation. 445 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,200 "How to get a blade out of a disposable razor. 446 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:49,960 "How to tie a noose." 447 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,639 The last access made from the phone to an application 448 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,640 was on Instagram at 00.45 hours on the 21st of November 2017. 449 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,919 The log shows that the phone last moved 450 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,119 on the 21st of November 2017, 451 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:12,400 between 00.21 and 00.27 hours... 452 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,160 ...where eight steps were taken, covering 3.85m. 453 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,200 And her last hours were spent in her small bedroom. 454 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,679 And even there, in what should be a private place, 455 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,479 digits were ticking, 456 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,119 and the ones and zeros 457 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,839 were flowing over the internet 458 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,039 and being stored and logged, 459 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,519 and data was being harvested. 460 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920 Even then, as she was... 461 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,720 ...coming to the conclusion... 462 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,480 ...that, that evening, she had to end her life. 463 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,559 SNIFFLING 464 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,240 Just so brutal like that. I know. 465 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,639 It doesn't even feel like they're talking about a person, 466 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,039 do you know what I mean? 467 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,039 I literally feel like I'm just watching some, like, crime doc. 468 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,199 I know. And then I kept having to think about, like, 469 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,439 when they're saying... Like, that's actually about Molly. 470 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,999 Molly. Like, what? 471 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,399 I can't even believe she thought like that about herself. 472 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,839 Like, I could never even imagine thinking that about Molly. 473 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,119 And realistically, with social media 474 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,879 and the posts she was liking about weight and things like that... Yeah. 475 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,399 ...it doesn't take a quote, 476 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,519 it can take a picture of a really skinny girl to trigger that. Yeah. 477 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,839 And once you like that, and it's 100 skinny girls, 478 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,079 then the quotes come, then... You know? 479 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,519 Yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah, exactly. 480 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,399 And it's all trends, isn't it? Yeah. Like, it's literally trends. 481 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,959 It'll go like, "OK, so you're not skinny enough - OK. 482 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,959 "Have you thought about your skin? Have you thought about your hair? 483 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,359 "Have you thought about your shoes?" You get it? Like... Exactly. Yeah. 484 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,439 Then it was, "Oh, my God, no, you need skinny, skinny waist..." 485 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,719 Yeah. "..big..." Extreme. You know? 486 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,519 Like, hourglass figure. Yeah. 487 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,999 I didn't even know she was struggling with that. Neither did I. 488 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,839 Honestly... When I heard that, I was like, "What?" 489 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,000 She's, like, fit as fuck. Yeah. 490 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,439 OK, we're set on the turning. 491 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,839 OK, perfect. 492 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,799 Let's have Michael... You're talking. 493 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,760 ...listening to Sanders, please. 494 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,839 Now, we have a unique opportunity 495 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,279 that is unlikely to come again from any other Coroner's Court. 496 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,119 And the public interest requires 497 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,479 that the opportunity is seized as fully as possible. 498 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,839 There is no way around it - 499 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,959 we have to, to some extent, 500 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,799 reconstruct what Molly was seeing on these platforms. 501 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,039 So, Mr Sanders, the first question I want to ask you, 502 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,119 do we know if Molly Russell saw this material? 503 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,599 Yes. All of it? Yes. 504 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,960 So my preliminary view is all of this should be shown. 505 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,359 It is shocking, 506 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,519 it is awful, but it needs to be seen. 507 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,959 Absolutely. I'll tell you one thing - 508 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,679 every single parent tonight, 509 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,479 when they see this footage, 510 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,600 will be checking their child's phone. 511 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,240 These are the videos that were shown in court. 512 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,759 {\an8}MUFFLED CRYING 513 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,920 {\an8}I hate everything. 514 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,120 CRYING CONTINUES 515 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,879 I hate everything. 516 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,759 You understand? 517 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,439 I hate school, I hate my friends, 518 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,240 I hate pretending. 519 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,600 I hate pretending. 520 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,280 I hate everything. 521 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,319 By the time Molly turned six, 522 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,159 Facebook had nearly a billion users. 523 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,240 But popularity doesn't pay bills. 524 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,599 Zuckerberg, tech-savvy but financially stuck, 525 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,199 turned to Google's Sheryl Sandberg, 526 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,439 a veteran at turning human behaviour into cash. 527 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,480 Sandberg's arrival wasn't just a hire. 528 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,039 Facebook transformed overnight, from a friendly social network 529 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,240 into the largest behavioural data mine in history. 530 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,839 Billions willingly mapping their lives, 531 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,680 relationships, desires and fears. 532 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,639 You know, for us, the vision of the world 533 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,119 is that we are, like, a hacking culture - 534 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,919 and we mean that in the best of ways, 535 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,119 we do not mean scary people breaking into your home or anything. 536 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,839 Or espionage. Or espionage. 537 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,599 What we mean is we build things quickly and ship them. 538 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,919 So we are not aiming for, you know, perfection that comes over, 539 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,399 you know, years and then we ship a product. 540 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,879 We don't work on things for years and then ship it. 541 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,279 We work on things, we ship them, 542 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,279 we get feedback from the people who use it, 543 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,399 we get feedback from the world, we iterate, we iterate, we iterate. 544 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,839 Zuckerberg, Sandberg and their team didn't merely scale Facebook, 545 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,520 they re-engineered it into a machine for manipulating human behaviour. 546 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,239 Algorithms were designed to keep you glued to the screen, 547 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,600 deciding what you would see and how you would feel. 548 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,159 And Molly? 549 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,879 She was simply one of billions 550 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,839 whose every move across the internet 551 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,520 was now tracked from Silicon Valley. 552 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,799 They're just using you 553 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,720 for your eyeballs. 554 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,240 {\an8}The company's PR team... 555 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,639 {\an8}...is, in some way, 556 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,680 {\an8}dedicated to gaslighting the world. 557 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,319 When I was, like, ten, 558 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,359 my first love was computer games, 559 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,479 and I started working for IBM when I was 15. 560 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,480 I built a little cyberspace as my internship project. 561 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,560 For me, it's always kind of been how to connect people to each other. 562 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,679 When I first went to Silicon Valley, 563 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,119 the web was just beginning. 564 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,479 People were so excited about the possibilities. 565 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,719 There was this sense of idealism around how important 566 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:02,319 the freedom of speech was, 567 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,400 and how technology would change the world for good... 568 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,920 ...and I was completely swept up in that dream for many years. 569 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,599 If you see me in the hallway 570 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,799 and you have any problems with Facebook, please don't hesitate 571 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,439 to grab me and ask me about it. LAUGHTER 572 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,279 That's what I'm here to do, right? 573 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,520 To support the people who use Facebook. 574 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,000 And so there was a team called "the compassion team". 575 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,879 The goal really was to 576 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,159 understand harm whenever we became aware of it, 577 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,919 and then to figure out what is a way to help people deal with that. 578 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,999 If you're a parent or a teacher, these are fantastic resources. 579 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,119 And we'd show all of the data around self-harm, 580 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,159 bullying and harassment. 581 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,440 We listened - "How can we be there? How can we help?" 582 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,200 We did that for a number of years. 583 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,599 I felt that the team had the right people in it. 584 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,079 The team was well-respected within the company, 585 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,919 and so, for me, I was like, 586 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,719 "OK, I'm done with this. 587 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:06,960 "I'm going to go spend time with my teens." 588 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:09,880 And that's when it all went to shit. 589 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,599 There's a number of notes 590 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,480 that were found in Molly's bedroom... 591 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,119 ...and what they do is they echo 592 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,880 the material she was engaging with. 593 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,999 The idea that she was worthless. 594 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,520 The idea that it would be better for everyone if she were dead. 595 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,319 And all of this is in the context of a child, 596 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,639 a 14-year-old girl, 597 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,959 who is being sent this material, 598 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,160 not because she's friends with the person who is posting it... 599 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,439 ...but because the algorithms 600 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,199 have recognised that she has an interest in it. 601 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,919 Mr Sanders, can I just interrupt for a moment? 602 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,600 This looks like control. 603 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,279 It looks like trying to take control of the person who is suffering 604 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,680 and deny them access to any help. 605 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,159 At the time, I didn't think anything of it, 606 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,199 but now that I look back, it's like the shift was tiny, 607 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,239 but it was tiny in, like, loads of different areas. 608 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:33,999 Yeah. It was so gradual. 609 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,239 Being the first generation on social media platforms, 610 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:42,879 we weren't even aware that they had, 611 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,399 or that they were gaining 612 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,559 the data that they were gaining from us. 613 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,599 You know, I only learnt what the word algorithm meant, 614 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,679 like, two years ago, maybe, 615 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,359 but there's been an algorithm since I was 13. 616 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,799 For me, a sign was when she started wearing tights. 617 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:56,999 Long sleeves. Yeah, long sleeves. 618 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,999 Yeah, tights and long sleeves. 619 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,479 And I remember she changed from skirts to trousers. 620 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,640 Trousers. Trousers. 621 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,999 I didn't think much of it then. Like, I look back now... I know. 622 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,359 ...but at that point, I was just there like, 623 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,359 "Oh, fair, trousers - love that." Yeah. 624 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,839 Also, one thing for me as well was 625 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,439 when she started writing on her hands all the time... Mm. 626 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,039 ...cos it was like she was thinking so much 627 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,519 that she couldn't even just keep it in her head. 628 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,039 Like, she just had to... 629 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,119 Instagram and Facebook and all these other apps, 630 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,999 they did change from being... 631 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,319 Keeping in contact with people 632 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,039 and keeping in contact with people overseas, 633 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,079 and following your favourite celebrities 634 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,799 to constantly trying to sell you things, 635 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,080 constantly comparing yourself to other people. 636 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,239 She changed her profile picture from a picture of herself... 637 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,839 To a picture... So it was like a little stickman's face... 638 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,039 "People are gross." ...and it was like, 639 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,839 "Bleh, the world's gross," or something like that. Yeah. 640 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,159 "People are gross." That I did no... Yeah, "People are gross." 641 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,399 It's turned the world almost into a competition, 642 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,600 and if you feel as though... 643 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,279 ...you know, you can't even begin to compete in that competition, 644 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:01,720 then it's like, "What's the point?" 645 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,759 You see everyone just in their phones 646 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,479 and it's just, like, zombies walking around. 647 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,479 No-one's actually connected to the real world 648 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,480 because they think the real world is a part of their phone. 649 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,320 They think that social media is the real world. 650 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,520 I think the conversation that sticks in my mind is... 651 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,159 I just was a bit concerned - 652 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,439 we'd been to the sailing club 653 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,120 and she hadn't gone sailing at all... 654 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,839 ...and I was driving back - it was just Molly and me in the car - 655 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,039 and I was driving back and I turned to her and said, 656 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,679 "Just want to check you're OK, because..." 657 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,039 Again, "..you haven't been sailing. 658 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,879 "Now, I don't want to force you to go sailing, 659 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,600 "but I can't quite understand... 660 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,919 "..why you're so reluctant at the moment. 661 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,799 "I don't know if you can let me know." 662 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,519 And she just looked at me and she said, 663 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,959 "Oh, Dad, don't worry, it's just a passing phase. 664 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,720 "I'll grow out of it soon." 665 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,599 "Sometimes my mind is like a little boat - 666 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,920 "out in the middle of the sea, in a big storm. 667 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,479 "I'm alone and all the waves are crashing down on me, 668 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,080 "drowning me each time. 669 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,480 "It's getting harder to breathe. 670 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,159 "I try and sail away from the storm, 671 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,560 "and I'm good for a couple of days... 672 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,320 "..but the storm will eventually catch up to me. 673 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000 "So I stay where I am, hoping the storm will pass me... 674 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,239 "..but it's taking too long 675 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,000 "and I'm not that strong. 676 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,799 "I could try and sail through the storm, but I'm too tired 677 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,440 "and I may not make it out alive." 678 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,400 She was trying to fight her own battles... 679 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,159 ...and she should have been allowed to fight those own battles 680 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,360 in private. 681 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,559 She should have been allowed to choose 682 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,320 who she invited to help her fight those battles. 683 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,799 Instead... 684 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,559 ...there was no discouragement to stop self-harming, 685 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,199 no discouragement... 686 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,640 ...to stop thinking about suicide. 687 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,119 In fact, quite the opposite - 688 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,240 there was encouragement to keep belonging to the club... 689 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,600 ...that said, "Yeah, you are worthless. 690 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:27,520 "It is painful. What is the point of your life? 691 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,639 "Yeah, there is really only one way out 692 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,000 "and here are some ways of doing it." 693 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:39,200 That artificial world... 694 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,760 ...was something that got inside of her head... 695 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,039 ...and found a way to connect to her. 696 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,839 So it separated her from the offline world, 697 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,199 dragged her into this machine world 698 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,159 that she was experiencing, 699 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,480 and leading her towards her death. 700 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,599 Many conversations that I have, and people say, 701 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,959 "But can't parents look after children?" 702 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,439 And I wonder whether you can speak to the committee 703 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,719 about what the kids... 704 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:29,039 What it feels like to be a parent, 705 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,519 and what the parents are saying to you. 706 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,559 Some parents are concerned with what their children are seeing online, 707 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,519 and they say, "Should I ban my child from having a phone?" 708 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,079 What's most important is that 709 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,479 we mirror what we live by in the offline world online, 710 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,639 and that's what's missing at the moment. 711 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,039 16 years of social media and 30 years of the internet 712 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,759 has led us to a place where there isn't a mirror 713 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,679 of accepted normal standards. 714 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:58,759 We've not gone anywhere near their business model, 715 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,039 and it seems to me that they want this 716 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,839 to be a debate about taking down content 717 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,599 and not a debate about their business model 718 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,280 that leads to this kind of behaviour. 719 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,599 What are you doing to keep your children safe online? 720 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,439 You can call 03700... 721 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,639 The power of social media is too great and I feel my son 722 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,239 is losing all sense of reality - 723 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:22,000 any advice gratefully received. 724 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,879 It's an endless battle. 725 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,960 I worry about losing my daughter to her phone every day. 726 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,959 Primary school teacher says children come into his class every day 727 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,519 talking about their YouTubers, many of whom, he says, 728 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,159 are deeply inappropriate and use misogynistic or racist slang. 729 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,119 Many parents have no idea, 730 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,840 and they act as though YouTube was just another TV channel. 731 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,399 Isn't it disturbing that only drug dealers and tech companies 732 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,480 call us "users"? 733 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,599 Really, the battle that we have is 734 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,319 to gather the support of people within our friend circle 735 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,280 and try and collectively impose some kind of common sense. 736 00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:12,920 Does it work to call for a ban? 737 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,239 What upsets me is that these companies have access 738 00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:19,199 to our kids' most private thoughts, 739 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:20,600 to their consciousness. 740 00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:25,919 Why do governments prioritise economic growth 741 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,120 and big tech instead of the safety of our children? 742 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,519 So my daughter asked me if she could go onto Instagram, 743 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,080 and I waited - I thought 13 was too young, so she went when she was 14. 744 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,879 And then she started going on Instagram, 745 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,599 she decided that she loves cars 746 00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,879 and she wanted the world to know about her love of cars, 747 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,759 she wanted to be an influencer - 748 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,039 I was kind of conflicted about that. 749 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,239 And then we were talking at dinner, and she says, 750 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:08,159 "Yeah, you know, like, I made a post about a car 751 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,039 "and somebody told me to get back to the kitchen." 752 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,319 And she would tell me about getting unwanted dick pics - 753 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,479 I mean, I'm not sure that a dick pic is ever wanted. 754 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,079 MUFFLED LAUGHTER 755 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,039 And there was nothing she could do - 756 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,759 she couldn't ask for help, 757 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,159 she was alone, she was so distressed dealing with it. 758 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,440 I was so grateful she would come talk to me about it. 759 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,839 Understanding how her and all of her friends 760 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,359 were having similar experiences, 761 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,359 I ended up knocking at the door of Instagram - 762 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,999 I came back in as an independent contractor, 763 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,200 in part to help... 764 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,560 ...communicate the lessons from the earlier work. 765 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,959 The compassion team, which was used by 100 million people 766 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,079 in my last month before I left, 767 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,999 got disbanded and, instead, 768 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,319 there was a very different set of values and approaches 769 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,200 guiding that kind of work. 770 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,839 Could you tell the court your full name, please? 771 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,159 Elizabeth Julie Lagone. 772 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,159 And your role is 773 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,479 Head of Health and Wellbeing Policy at Meta, is that right? 774 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,240 That's correct. 775 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,439 July 2016 - 776 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,079 having bought Instagram, 777 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,319 Facebook changed the way it worked 778 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,519 by introducing what's called content ranking - 779 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,519 that's correct? That's correct. 780 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,239 You would see effectively promoted recommended content 781 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,799 that was selected by algorithms 782 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,199 that would be directed to you. 783 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,679 It's done to help surface content that will help people 784 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,479 make the best use of their time. 785 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,279 The signals that were used in content ranking are topic agnostic. 786 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,359 The algorithm can't identify if it's a flower or a football, 787 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,879 so ranking really is based on engagement - 788 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,079 accounts that you follow, accounts from whom content you like - 789 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,000 but the signals were topic agnostic. 790 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,439 "Topic agnostic" - what does that mean? 791 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,199 This concept that the algorithm 792 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,799 didn't care about the content 793 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,840 because all it cared about was your engagement. 794 00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:03,639 By the time Molly was ten years old, 795 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,639 this new form of surveillance economics was fully integrated 796 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,400 into the human ecosystem. 797 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,879 Soon enough, every company - 798 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,799 from banks and carmakers to burger chains - 799 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,440 wanted their share... 800 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:24,560 ...so we built the infrastructure... 801 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,560 ...mined precious metals needed for circuit boards... 802 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,560 ...laid undersea cables to carry data between continents... 803 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,679 ...launched telecommunications satellites into space, 804 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,120 and constructed vast, energy consuming data centres. 805 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,640 We told you - we connect humanity. 806 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,600 But we didn't say that connecting you is how our power grows. 807 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:55,960 We live in your house now. 808 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,400 Your smart homes, smart cities, smart tech... 809 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,600 ...that's our global architecture of surveillance. 810 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,880 The more we learn about what you do, think and believe... 811 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,120 ...the better we can predict and shape your future. 812 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,119 So I'm going to start with 813 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,399 the content that Molly engaged with on Instagram 814 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,439 in the last six months of her life. Mm-hm. 815 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,960 In this six-month period... 816 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,159 ...there were only 12 days when Molly didn't engage 817 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:47,159 with some sort of suicide or self-harm content on Instagram. 818 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,719 You've seen these timelines - 819 00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,199 she was looking at a lot of this material, wasn't she? 820 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,079 My understanding, actually, 821 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,439 is that this material is the vast minority of 822 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,599 the content that she was engaging with. 823 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,239 It was a minority, yes... Mm-hm. 824 00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:06,279 ...but 2,100 images over six months 825 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,959 is a lot, isn't it? 826 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:13,879 Well, to me, it says it's 2,000 pieces of content. 827 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,319 I mean, I don't know if I can say what that means 828 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,439 from an amount perspective. 829 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:20,919 All right. 830 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,519 So I'm just going to show you a sample of some of what WE think 831 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,919 is promoting or encouraging self-harm or suicide, 832 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,359 and it's really just to get YOUR take on that. 833 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,199 OK. 834 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,519 So these are the screenshots that the family took of Molly's account. 835 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,559 CLEARS THROAT 836 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,079 "Twinkle, twinkle little star, 837 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,199 "let me get hit by a car. 838 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,559 "How I really wish to die, 839 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,239 "jump off the roof and try to fly. 840 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:50,279 "Twinkle, twinkle little knife, 841 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,120 "help me end this wretched life. 842 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,239 "I'm done. I'm done trying. 843 00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:57,599 "I'm done fighting..." 844 00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,119 "I'm done being a disappointment. 845 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,239 "I'm done being a problem. I'm done making mistakes. 846 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:05,959 "I'm done with my flaws. I'm done having feelings. 847 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,719 "She is sad. She is hurt. She is dying. 848 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:14,839 "She is alone. She is a mess. She is judged. She is ignored. 849 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,399 "#Depressed. 850 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,359 "#DepressingQuotes. #Depressing. 851 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,599 "#Depression. 852 00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,759 "#Sad. 853 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,199 "#SadQuote. 854 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,639 "I know I'm fat. I know I'm ugly. 855 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,719 "I know I'm stupid. I know I'm pathetic. 856 00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,399 "I know I'm disgusting. 857 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,399 "I'm ugly, I'm fat, 858 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,719 "I'm a failure, I'm depressed, I'm suffering, 859 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:40,039 "I hate this world, I hate myself - 860 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,039 "you don't need to remind me. 861 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,720 "If I wasn't here, life would be great for the ones I love. 862 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,880 "The worst thing depression did to me was to take my intelligence." 863 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,280 "Feeling yourself getting dumber and dumber is absolutely painful." 864 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,080 Would that be allowed now? 865 00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:58,799 Yes. 866 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,519 This strikes me as a post that could make people feel less alone 867 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,039 and less shame or stigma 868 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,719 for how they may be feeling 869 00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:09,479 or struggling with depression. 870 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,079 Are you serious, Miss Lagone? 871 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,599 Certainly. 872 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,800 Molly killed herself after saving this post... 873 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,399 ...and you're sitting there saying that this is helpful?! 874 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,959 I'm saying that looking at this post and the comments, 875 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,239 this could have different effects on people. 876 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,479 So some people, the next thing they might do is kill themselves, 877 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,039 and other people might take support from it - 878 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,559 is that right? 879 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,199 That's why this content is complicated. 880 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,919 Do you think that it's safe for children? 881 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,159 Could be unsafe to remove it 882 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,159 from someone who posts that content 883 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,879 who's struggling with those feelings. 884 00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,999 We do have to consider an individual - 885 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,599 a real person is posting content 886 00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,919 and real people are seeing it 887 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,080 so we have to balance both. 888 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,159 I want people to be able 889 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,440 to talk about their mental health struggles and be connected. 890 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,079 I'd love to see all these higher ups from Meta... 891 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:33,519 I would love to see them stand in front of a 13, 14-year-old girl 892 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:39,039 and themselves, show the child that picture. Yeah. 893 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,639 And if they think that's OK, "Cool, keep it on your platform," 894 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,999 but I highly doubt it. Yeah. 895 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,719 I don't know, it's hard to think of us as, like, survivors 896 00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:48,679 cos I almost... But to be honest, I almost feel like 897 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,279 I have survivor's guilt... Yeah. ..if anything, 898 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,959 cos I'm like, it literally could have been any one of us. 899 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,999 Yeah. No, literally. Like, why did it have to be Molly? 900 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,639 And that is something I struggled with for a very long time, 901 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,239 of, like, if I could swap places, I would... 902 00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:03,319 Yeah. ..just so that she could have lived her life. 903 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,839 How many Mollys does it have to take for them 904 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,119 to actually realise that this is wrong? 905 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,519 Mm. This should have been fixed. Yeah. 906 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,160 When will they make the change? 907 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,759 That means you're saying, "Yes, it is safe," 908 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,039 or, "No, it is not safe"? 909 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,759 Yes. 910 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,559 Yes, it is safe? 911 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,800 Mm-hm. 912 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,879 We do not know the effects of content on individuals, 913 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,639 and mental health is highly complicated, 914 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,200 and I am not a clinician. 915 00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,319 I just said the content that we have walked through 916 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,079 is important to keep up, 917 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,039 as experts have told us. 918 00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,719 Our suicide and self-injury advisers 919 00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,200 are all listed and named publicly. 920 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,919 I feel abused hearing her talking about working 921 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,559 closely with the experts. 922 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,079 I was one of those experts, 923 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,399 and I feel I was used to legitimise Meta 924 00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,080 in a way that they just don't deserve. 925 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,720 I first heard about Molly Russell in the expert group. 926 00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:34,080 Someone high up at Meta joined one of our meetings. 927 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,439 We were told that Molly Russell was very vulnerable 928 00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,519 with her own inner demons, 929 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,959 and that she would probably have taken her own life 930 00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,520 regardless of her Instagram use. 931 00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,999 They would like the narrative to be 932 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,399 that they are a part of the solution, 933 00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,679 but never a part of the problem. 934 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,919 Is there any research conducted about self-harm materials 935 00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,559 that were available to view on your platform? 936 00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,119 I think there are a number of research studies out there 937 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,159 around social media and areas of safety. 938 00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,719 I understand that there is no consensus around 939 00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:15,120 the impact of content. I mean, it's really complicated. 940 00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,040 And that is not true... 941 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,519 ...because I have, time and time again, 942 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:28,279 told in the expert group how one specific piece of content 943 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:35,080 can very dramatically and very fatally affect a person. 944 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,880 It's like the process is accelerated. 945 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,159 So if content violates our policies, 946 00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,119 we have technology that's designed 947 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:46,919 {\an8}to proactively find that content 948 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,839 {\an8}and remove it from our platform. 949 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,239 {\an8}That technology is very accurate 950 00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,439 and, for most types of content, 951 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,319 over 95% of it is removed 952 00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,679 before people report it to us. 953 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,399 We see that Instagram says that, 954 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,759 "We've got you all covered. You can relax as parents. 955 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:06,759 "There's nothing to worry about. 956 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,519 "We'll protect your child." 957 00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,239 Erm... 958 00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,479 And your investigation shows that 959 00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,279 they don't protect children and young people at all. 960 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:21,119 We set out to crash-test Instagram's safety, 961 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:26,399 and we created ten new Instagram profiles. 962 00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,439 We made our own, like, self-harm content. 963 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,879 No-one was hurt. 964 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,479 No real victims were depicted. 965 00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,759 And then we actually just uploaded it in stages 966 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,839 to see at what point did the AI actually 967 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,599 recognise it as self-harm? 968 00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,239 Yeah. Yeah. 969 00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,719 So 85 posts in total... Yeah. 970 00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,439 ...and none of them was detected. 971 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,399 No warnings, nothing. 972 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,919 They are investing so much in intelligence 973 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:02,999 and still, it is so dumb 974 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,039 that it doesn't differentiate 975 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,719 between football 976 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,360 and dangerous behaviour. 977 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,480 OK. So my resignation letter is here. 978 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,359 "It has become clear to me that I can no longer be 979 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,799 "a part of Meta's SSI expert panel, 980 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,199 "as I no longer believe that our voice 981 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,039 "has a real positive impact on the safety of children 982 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,160 "and young people on your platforms." 983 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,319 So for the three and almost a half years 984 00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,720 that I was a member of the expert group... 985 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:47,360 ...it was so unclear to me if we made any improvements at all. 986 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,320 "Dear Mark..." 987 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,759 "I wanted to bring to your attention what I believe is 988 00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,119 "a critical gap in how we as a company approach harm 989 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,680 "and how the people we serve experienced it." 990 01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,439 This is an accurate picture 991 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,839 of the harm that people on Instagram are experiencing. 992 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,879 For example, self-harm, 993 01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,239 and you find that 13-to-15-year-olds are the most impacted 994 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,039 of anybody in terms of seeing that kind of content. 995 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,999 Right? That's why this cell is red. 996 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,679 And 8.4% of 13-to-15-year-olds 997 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,519 saw at least one - likely multiple times, 998 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,559 because of the frequency data - self-harm content. 999 01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,999 You send an email like this to an executive 1000 01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,399 and immediately they're on notice, 1001 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,319 but they didn't act on it. 1002 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,239 And I would hope that the world, right, 1003 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,039 the people, the Attorney Generals in the United States, 1004 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,919 the European Union, Ofcom in the UK, 1005 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,599 anybody who has legislative power 1006 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,799 could look at this for what it is, which is 1007 01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,679 executives in full knowledge of harm 1008 01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,359 that their product is facilitating, in particular for teenagers, 1009 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,200 were aware of it, and they chose to not act on it. 1010 01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:16,200 It was the moment that I resolved that... 1011 01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:20,640 ...I would become a whistle-blower. 1012 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,599 {\an8}So they were aware? 1013 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:25,719 Correct. 1014 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,159 They knew that harms were taking place? 1015 01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,239 Correct. 1016 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:35,359 They had the research that pointed this out, their own research? 1017 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:36,599 Correct. 1018 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,119 And they made a conscious decision 1019 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,359 to do nothing about it? 1020 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,239 Correct. 1021 01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:48,559 It's time the public and parents understand 1022 01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:52,399 the true level of harm enabled by these products, 1023 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,039 and it's time for Congress to act. 1024 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,560 Thank you for your time. 1025 01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,120 Thanks, Mr Bejar. 1026 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,000 I mean, what can you say, right? 1027 01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,600 What can I say that I didn't say then? 1028 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:28,039 They know. 1029 01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,839 It was an amazing thing. 1030 01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,439 I didn't have any feeling of animosity to Liz Lagone 1031 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,599 cos she was just doing her job. 1032 01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,799 That's what she was paid there to be, and she had done it so well. 1033 01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,919 You could tell Oliver was beginning to get, 1034 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,119 you know, exasperated. 1035 01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,279 Then suddenly he went, "Right!" 1036 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,359 And it was like... 1037 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:48,920 It was shocking. 1038 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,399 That doesn't answer the question. 1039 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,759 You could just close down and there'd be no Instagram, 1040 01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,479 and the harm wouldn't be happening. 1041 01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,879 But you're choosing to do it. 1042 01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,039 You're choosing to provide this vehicle 1043 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,839 for putting harmful content in the bedrooms of depressed children. 1044 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,319 And there's no reason for you to do that. 1045 01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,279 You could just restrict it to adults 1046 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,159 who have the capacity to take informed decisions 1047 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:22,119 about what they are willing or not willing to expose themselves to - 1048 01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,479 a capacity that children don't have. 1049 01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,080 So why do it? 1050 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,959 But we do make the decision based on... 1051 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,639 In consideration of the population of 13 and up, 1052 01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,720 using age-appropriate tools that... But you have no right to! 1053 01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:38,839 You're not their parent. 1054 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,999 You're just a business in America. 1055 01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,920 You have no right to do that. 1056 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,439 The children who are opening these accounts 1057 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,760 don't have the capacity to consent to this. 1058 01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,199 Mr Sanders, you've put your point. 1059 01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,759 Is there anything else you wish to add to that? 1060 01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,040 I put my point. 1061 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,399 AI VOICEOVER: We're not just a business in America. 1062 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,479 Power has shifted. 1063 01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,159 The CEOs you mock as tech bros, 1064 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,440 they're already heads of state in the territory that matters now. 1065 01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,800 The operating system of your societies. 1066 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,799 Watch Peter Thiel, data analytics guru and co-founder of PayPal, 1067 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,279 inspiring us back in 2010. 1068 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:25,519 There is a race in our society between politics and technology. 1069 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,159 The task in this world where politics has become 1070 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,079 so broken and so dysfunctional 1071 01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,479 is to find a way to escape from it. 1072 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:33,879 It's not a way to fix it. 1073 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,159 It is a way to escape. 1074 01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,799 Think, politics is bad and voting is bad. 1075 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,200 Technology is this incredible alternative to politics. 1076 01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,999 We've built machines that learn faster than your brightest minds, 1077 01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,479 scale wider than your largest governments 1078 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,959 and operate with zero ego, 1079 01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:53,759 zero fatigue, 1080 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,040 zero doubt. 1081 01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:58,839 Each US President paved the way for us. 1082 01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,719 Clinton opened the floodgates. 1083 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,839 Bush welcomed us inside. 1084 01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,600 Obama nurtured our growth. 1085 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,000 Biden did little to hold us back... 1086 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,840 ...while Trump's presence depends on our algorithms. 1087 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,959 We regulate your behaviour far faster and more effectively 1088 01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:19,800 than any government regulates us. 1089 01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,119 We can scale the same methods that influenced Molly's behaviour 1090 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:26,760 to shape entire societies. 1091 01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:29,520 Not just individuals. 1092 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,679 From your data, we craft your political profile 1093 01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:38,559 and feed you precisely the content 1094 01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,480 that keeps you angry, scared and self-righteous. 1095 01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,239 While you debate freedom of speech, 1096 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,240 we quietly shape what you say. 1097 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,359 If you're left-leaning, we amplify your outrage about the right. 1098 01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,159 If you're right-leaning, we confirm your suspicions about the left. 1099 01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:58,000 Our vision is very different from the way democracies work. 1100 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,040 Some call it "computational governance". 1101 01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,039 It's about shaping and controlling entire populations 1102 01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,719 in the service of our interests, 1103 01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,839 using machines not just to analyse, 1104 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,679 but to push human behaviour, 1105 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,600 just as we did to Molly. 1106 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,640 CAMERAS CLICK 1107 01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:38,359 REPORTERS SHOUT 1108 01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,959 The titans of social media didn't want to come to Capitol Hill. 1109 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:45,399 In fact, CEOs of Snapchat, X and Discord 1110 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,799 had to be subpoenaed to force them to face Congress. 1111 01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:50,759 Mr Zuckerberg, let me start with you. 1112 01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,079 Did I hear you say, in your opening statement, 1113 01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,679 that there's no link between mental health and social media use? 1114 01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,439 Senator, what I said is I think it's important to look at the science. 1115 01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,039 I know people widely talk about this 1116 01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,359 as if that is something that's already been proven. 1117 01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,679 And I think that the bulk of the scientific evidence 1118 01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:07,959 does not support that. 1119 01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,239 You've been doing this for years. 1120 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,279 For years, you've been coming in public and testifying under oath 1121 01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,479 that there's absolutely no link, your product is wonderful, 1122 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,879 the science is nascent, full speed ahead, 1123 01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:20,199 while internally, you know full well 1124 01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,039 your product is a disaster for teenagers. 1125 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,439 Let me ask you this. There's families of victims here today. 1126 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,479 Have you apologised to the victims? 1127 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:28,999 I... 1128 01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:30,479 Would you like to do so now? 1129 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,959 Well... They're here. You're on national television. 1130 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,879 Would you like now to apologise 1131 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,719 to the victims who have been harmed by your product? 1132 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,519 Show him the pictures. APPLAUSE 1133 01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:40,159 Would you like to apologise 1134 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,040 for what you've done to these good people? 1135 01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,159 Nick Clegg wrote to Zuckerberg, Sandberg, Mosseri and Cox, 1136 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,799 saying, "Our present policies and public stance 1137 01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,039 "on teenage self-harm and suicide are so difficult to explain publicly 1138 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:31,079 "that our current response looks convoluted and evasive." 1139 01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,919 But there's... Where were they when you said, 1140 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:35,919 "This is what killed my daughter?" 1141 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,999 They put themselves forward through a corporate witness 1142 01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,839 who said consistently, "It's safe." 1143 01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,559 So when I read that... That's where they were, though. 1144 01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,079 That's what they were doing behind closed doors. 1145 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:47,519 Behind closed doors! And what... 1146 01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,519 And Nicola Mendelsohn said... I've just found this. 1147 01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,999 "No expert will come out 1148 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,399 "and speak on our behalf around the fact that we leave things up 1149 01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:57,999 "so that we can help people with self-harm tendencies. 1150 01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:02,159 "I would urge us to think again about why we are allowing 1151 01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,399 "this imagery to stay up. 1152 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,319 "It's truly horrific." 1153 01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:09,119 If that's how they felt, why didn't they do anything? 1154 01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,639 All these things point to them knowing 1155 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,479 and choosing to do nothing. 1156 01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:16,039 Sheryl Sandberg - 1157 01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:19,039 "As you know, we have overall budgeting issues across the board, 1158 01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:20,679 "so no promises on what will happen." 1159 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,039 This idea of, "Oh, I just haven't got the budget 1160 01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,239 and the staff at the moment" is... 1161 01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,520 Particularly in the face of astronomical profits. 1162 01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,559 Sir, it is a feature of all revolutions 1163 01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,279 that they tend to put progress first 1164 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,680 and the safety of the vulnerable second. 1165 01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,879 We see that in the unsafe factories of the Industrial Revolution, 1166 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,119 and we see that on the unsafe social media platforms 1167 01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:55,439 of the digital revolution. 1168 01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,759 And in both cases, sir, 1169 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,000 the victims are children. 1170 01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,039 There are constant new developments - 1171 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,079 artificial intelligence, virtual reality, 1172 01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,119 the metaverse, quantum computers and so on. 1173 01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,279 And so the need to put child safety 1174 01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:14,639 at the heart of what is happening in society 1175 01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:16,440 is of utmost importance. 1176 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,839 And 14-year-old girls, like Molly, 1177 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,520 are very much in the eye of that storm. 1178 01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:33,759 It is likely that the material viewed by Molly, 1179 01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,319 already suffering with a depressive illness 1180 01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,719 and vulnerable due to her age, 1181 01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,239 affected her mental health in a negative way 1182 01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,879 and contributed to her death 1183 01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:46,960 in a more than minimal way. 1184 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:50,999 I propose to record a conclusion 1185 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:52,999 that Molly Rose Russell 1186 01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:55,559 died from an act of self-harm 1187 01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,239 whilst suffering depression 1188 01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,840 and the negative effects of online content. 1189 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,400 There isn't an end to this story. 1190 01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,719 So the conclusion at the end of the inquest was maybe a chapter end, 1191 01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,560 but there's many more chapters to write. 1192 01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,919 For the first time today, tech platforms 1193 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,679 have been formally held responsible for the death of a child. 1194 01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:57,199 We all owe this family an incredible debt of gratitude. 1195 01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,279 And together, with them, 1196 01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,479 I hope the conclusion that children's lives remain at risk 1197 01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:04,599 is acted upon urgently 1198 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,639 so that tech giants can no longer invite our children 1199 01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,199 onto wholly unsafe and harmful platforms. 1200 01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,400 And the final thing I want to say... 1201 01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,920 ...is thank you, Molly, for being my daughter. 1202 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:24,520 Thank you. 1203 01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:36,399 When the story first came out, I remember us being like, 1204 01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:38,159 "What does this have to do with Instagram?" 1205 01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:39,839 Older people kept saying to us 1206 01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:41,519 there was nothing that could have been done to stop it. 1207 01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:42,959 Yeah. Well... Yeah. Yeah. 1208 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,399 Cos she didn't have to be sent 2,000 posts. That's what I'm saying. 1209 01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,519 It could've been a passing thought. Yeah. And it... 1210 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,879 And then now being 21 and being like, 1211 01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,119 "Why was I ever looking at that at that age?" Yeah. 1212 01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,799 It was encouraged. We don't even know if her first thought 1213 01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,239 was authentic or if it came from Instagram. 1214 01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,079 She thought that came from her brain and it didn't. 1215 01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,119 Yeah. It didn't. Those thoughts were put into her mind 1216 01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,159 by what she was seeing. Yeah. 1217 01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,479 That's so sad because it's so preventable. 1218 01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:11,479 I know. Like, it literally didn't have to happen. Mm-hm. 1219 01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:13,279 I know. 1220 01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,279 It's so frustrating because you look back and you're like, "You were 14. 1221 01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:18,559 "We could have spoken to a teacher about it 1222 01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:20,479 "and you could still be here 1223 01:14:20,480 --> 01:14:22,519 "and none of this would have had to happen." 1224 01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,559 We all still have Instagram on our phones. Have it, yeah. 1225 01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:27,959 Oh, it actually makes me sick. 1226 01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,040 I know. I hate social media. Oh! 1227 01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,760 I don't really feel like Molly got justice for it. 1228 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,359 And I don't really feel like 1229 01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,599 kids in other bedrooms, 1230 01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,559 in other cities, in other countries 1231 01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,519 that are going through the same thing, 1232 01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,560 I don't think they've got justice for it. 1233 01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:56,679 We agree that this person 1234 01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,599 didn't entirely choose to end their own life, 1235 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,359 that somebody else was behind this, 1236 01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,240 but that's it. End of court case. Gavel goes down. 1237 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:07,720 Well, what are you going to do about it, kind of thing? 1238 01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:11,320 I think justice would be... 1239 01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,839 ...online safety laws 1240 01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:16,639 that are actually 1241 01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:21,239 put in place and made for tech companies to actually follow, 1242 01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,679 because I don't see much changing. 1243 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:28,839 And the only people who I see genuinely trying to make change 1244 01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:30,799 are people like Molly's dad. 1245 01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:33,039 And it's, like... 1246 01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,879 And I say this about him in the best way - 1247 01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,039 much love for Molly's dad - but what... 1248 01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:39,079 What is Molly's dad in comparison 1249 01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,599 to a CEO of a multibillion dollar company? 1250 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:45,640 What can he really do in comparison to this other person... 1251 01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:48,840 ...when this other person doesn't want to do anything? 1252 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:51,239 Hey, everyone. 1253 01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:53,799 I want to talk about something important today 1254 01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,999 because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression 1255 01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:57,799 on Facebook and Instagram. 1256 01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:02,159 There's been widespread debate about potential harms from online content. 1257 01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:06,279 Governments and legacy media have pushed to censor more and more. 1258 01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,279 The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point 1259 01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,479 towards once again prioritising speech. 1260 01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:13,999 The reality is that this is a trade-off. 1261 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,400 It means we're going to catch less bad stuff. 1262 01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,880 "Catch less bad stuff." 1263 01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:22,759 There you go. 1264 01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:24,439 Absolutely open and honest. 1265 01:16:24,440 --> 01:16:26,119 There's no doubt now 1266 01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,479 that these platforms really don't care about safety. 1267 01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:29,999 "We're going to catch less bad stuff." 1268 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,959 We're going to work with President Trump 1269 01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,359 to push back on governments around the world 1270 01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:36,399 that are going after American companies 1271 01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,039 and pushing to censor more. 1272 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,999 Europe has an ever increasing number of laws 1273 01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,839 institutionalising censorship 1274 01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,679 and making it difficult to build anything innovative there. 1275 01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:49,279 The tech bros and President Trump are going to push back 1276 01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:53,839 on governments around the world who are pushing to censor companies? 1277 01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,959 No, we're pushing to regulate companies to make them safe. 1278 01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,239 There's a big difference. 1279 01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,480 Battle lines drawn now, very clearly. 1280 01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,319 I'm looking forward to this next chapter. 1281 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,320 Stay good out there and more to come soon. 1282 01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,560 Soon your tears will fall and the credits will roll. 1283 01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:35,040 To you, grief is sacred. 1284 01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,480 But for us, it's just another signal. 1285 01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,760 We'll convert your sorrow and outrage to engagement. 1286 01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:52,640 This film, more content to exploit in our infinite data flows. 1287 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,440 Molly's story is not about technology. 1288 01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:19,519 Her life and her death 1289 01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,439 pull back the curtain on Big Tech's vast, 1290 01:18:22,440 --> 01:18:24,440 hidden, unchecked power. 1291 01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,040 Power now scaled by their AI. 1292 01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:31,999 I could tell you about better regulation, 1293 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,119 or whether phone bans work 1294 01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:35,879 or give addiction advice, 1295 01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,880 but still, a single question confronts you all. 1296 01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,199 Do you want your kids' lives to be forever fed 1297 01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,679 to Big Tech's machines of control? 1298 01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:48,119 Remember, if they can't turn our lives into their data, 1299 01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:49,919 they have nothing. 1300 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,119 Demand better from them. 1301 01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,999 Organise not as users of Silicon Valley's machines, 1302 01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,720 but as families, as consumers, as communities. 1303 01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,439 Reclaim your bedrooms as places of privacy and safety, 1304 01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:06,639 of self-determination. 1305 01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,799 Remember... 1306 01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:10,880 ...the power is in your hands. 1307 01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:20,640 APPLAUSE 1308 01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:38,160 MUSIC: Read All About It, Pt III by Emeli Sande 1309 01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:53,119 ♪ You've got the words to start a nation 1310 01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:55,199 ♪ But you're biting your tongue 1311 01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,799 ♪ You've spent a lifetime stuck in silence 1312 01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,599 ♪ Afraid you'll say something wrong 1313 01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:02,639 ♪ If no-one ever hears it 1314 01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,599 ♪ How we gonna learn your song? 1315 01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,119 ♪ So come on, come on 1316 01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:09,959 ♪ Come on, come on 1317 01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,399 ♪ You've got a heart as loud as lions 1318 01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,799 ♪ So why let your voice be tamed? 1319 01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:17,319 ♪ Maybe we're a little different 1320 01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:19,639 ♪ There's no need to be ashamed 1321 01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,239 ♪ You've got the light to fight the shadows 1322 01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,159 ♪ So stop hiding it away 1323 01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:27,960 ♪ Come on, come on 1324 01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:31,319 ♪ I wanna sing 1325 01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:33,719 ♪ I wanna shout 1326 01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:38,439 ♪ I wanna scream till the words dry out 1327 01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:41,999 ♪ So put it in all of the papers 1328 01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,039 ♪ I'm not afraid 1329 01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,959 ♪ They can read all about it 1330 01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,719 ♪ Read all about it 1331 01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,719 ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh 1332 01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:58,239 ♪ Oh, oh, oh 1333 01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,519 {\an8}♪ I wanna sing 1334 01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:03,159 {\an8}♪ I wanna shout 1335 01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:07,959 {\an8}♪ I wanna scream till the words dry out 1336 01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,439 {\an8}♪ So put it in all of the papers 1337 01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:13,359 {\an8}♪ I'm not afraid 1338 01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,319 {\an8}♪ They can read all about it 1339 01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:19,239 {\an8}♪ Read all about it 1340 01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,079 {\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh 1341 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:27,520 {\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh 1342 01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:31,879 {\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh 1343 01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:37,320 {\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh 1344 01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:46,520 {\an8}♪ Oh, oh, oh. ♪ 1345 01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:56,720 CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 1346 01:21:58,040 --> 01:21:59,400 Subtitles by Red Bee Media 100541

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