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Going
live in 5, 4, 3, 2.

I just want to give a big
shoutout to our sponsor.

Remember, when you spend
money on their products,

you help spread the
gospel of atheism.

That's true.

And now is that
fun time in our show

when my trusty sidekick,
Benji, joins me and peruses

some of our comments.
What you got, bro?

You know, Trey,
typically, we like

to hear from our supporters.

But I figured,
today's a special day.

Let's hear a rant from somebody
trying to preach at us.

Sure.

So here it goes.

What do you offer the world?

You make disgusting
jokes about Christians

and then yuk it up
like you've said

something brilliantly amusing.

Well, it's all fun and games
for you until someone gets hurt.

That's my favorite part.

And that'll be you at
the throne of judgment,

where the God who holds
all heathen and derision

shall have the last laugh.

Oh, I'm shaking
in my boots, Benji.

Oh, me as well,
a Christian clown.

Would you like to hear another?

Sure.

Perfect.

Robert Jastrow wrote,
at this moment,

it seems as though
science will never

be able to raise the curtain
on the mystery of creation.

For the scientist who
has lived by his faith

and the power of reason, the
story ends like a bad dream.

He's scaled the
mountains of ignorance,

and he's about to
conquer the highest peak.

And as he pulls himself
over that final rock,

he's greeted by a band of
theologians who've been

sitting there-- get this--

for centuries.

Oh, I'm getting sick
to my stomach, Benji.

Oh, I hear you.

So here's what I'm thinking.

Let's switch gears
because I'm tired of that.

Mm-hmm.

Let's hear from
one of the good guys.

Let's do it.

I'm just so glad my mind is
not "inslaved"-- with an I--

by religion.

Makes me feel bad
for Christians.

But I know that I've helped
a few escape their bondage.

"Inslaved"?

Yeah, I think his English
needs a little work.

Yeah, I would agree with you.

See, but I'm proud of the guy
because, ultimately, we've

been able to help multiple
people find freedom in atheism

and deconstruct their
Christian faith.

And here's what I'm thinking.

With everyone's support out
there, we can help a lot more.

You bet.

Ooh la la.

Look at this babe.

You better put your
tongue back in your mouth

before you step on it.

Eh, she's not bad.

Not bad?

Uh, it's time for you
to see your optometrist.

She is drop-dead
gorgeous, a real beauty.

Yeah, not that it matters.

She's way out of your league.

Pete's sake, you wear
the same shirt every day.

Hey, watch your tongue.

I'm just saying,
get real, right?

We're nerds, eggheads.

Girls like that, they end up
with the cool guys like movie

stars and jocks and doctors,
not biologists, chemists,

and certainly not physicists.

OK, speak for yourself because
I'm not just a scientist.

I'm a YouTube celebrity.

Right, no, I forgot, a
legend in your own mind.

So then why don't you go
ask her out, then, legend?

Oh, no, no, no, no.

I don't have time.

No.
Ah-huh.

No, that's what I figured.

What?

What's so funny?

You remember that
video I did making

fun of that
creationist movie where

the old guy goes to college
campuses and crusades

against evolution?

Oh, Debating my Gramps.

That's a classic.

Gramps wants to debate me.

- Are you serious?
- Yeah.

What a trip.

I mean, you got, what, 400,000
views on that video already.

So say you debate him, you'd
get at least that many,

which means ka-ching, Trey.

Probably so.

Plus, it'd be fun
whittling him down to size.

Though, not much of a challenge.

I mean, he's not a major
creationist like a Steven Meyer

or Ken Ham, but you can still
crush him, humiliate him,

make it like the Christians
versus the gladiators

in the Colosseum, though,
that's Rome, not LA.

Duh, everybody knows that.

Just chill out a little bit.

He's just fighting for
what he believes in.

If he respects me,
I'll respect him.

All right.

No, and say he doesn't?

I'll get out my
whittling knife.

Bingo.

Oh.

What?

There goes your big shot.

Well, you'll probably
never see her

again, except in your dreams.

Challenge accepted.

Now what do I do for an encore?

Oh, Lord, I'm gonna to
need your help here.

It's your dime.

Start talking.

- Trey?
- Yeah.

Who's this?

Douglas Connors?

Oh, Gramps, the man,
the myth, the legend.

So I heard you want to
have a little debate

about evolution, huh?

Well, I'm not so sure
I want to have a debate.

It just seems to be
something I need to do.

Well, now, do
you have some sort

of formal training in science
that I'm not aware of?

Not really.

I just read a lot of stuff.

For example, I just read a
book called Evolution's Echoes,

which recommended
I read another book

called Evolution Impossible.

I highly suggest you
check out those books.

Yeah, I'll pass.

So I guess this would
be a situation where I'm

dueling with an unarmed man?

Maybe.

Goliath probably had
similar thoughts.

Goliath?

So you think that
you're David and gonna

to save your people from
the big, bad, loudmouth,

atheist, giant?

Trey, I don't think a whole
lot about myself, period.

This-- this is not about me.

Well, I'll tell you what.

I'm not much into formal debate.

So why don't we just have a
civil conversation between us,

and you can ask me
questions about evolution?

And I'll educate you.

I guess that'll work.

I do have to warn you though.

God will be mentioned
in this discussion.

Well, I am not crazy
about that prospect.

Well, if you're afraid--

No, no, no.

No, no, no, Douglas,
I am not afraid.

You bring it on.

Now, can you do this
live in a studio, or will

we need to do this remotely?

I'm not big on travel.

Where's your studio?

Lexington, Kentucky.

Really?

My daughters live there.

It's not that far a drive.

Jeez, I'd love to
see them again.

Yeah, let's do it live.

All right, you got it.

I'll check the schedule,
and I'll get back with you

with some dates that work.

Sounds like a plan.

Have a good one.

All right, Gramps.

Any prayer requests?

Well, I could use some prayer.

I'm gonna have a debate with
a young atheist who happens

to be a scientist and
has quite a following

out on his social media.

You know, I know I'm not
qualified to carry out

such intellectual
combat, but I just

felt like God was just
pulling me up the ladder

and dragging me out to the
end of the diving board

and nudging me off
into the deep end.

So I'm gonna to need a little
prayer here that God will speak

through me because if my own
puny knowledge in this topic

was dynamite, I wouldn't
have enough to blow my nose.

Well, my wife has
a degree in zoology,

and she'd be more than happy
to help you prepare for that.

Wow, it's really generous
of you to offer her time.

You know, I'm gonna
politely decline that offer,

maybe save you some
marital mayhem.

You know, scripture tells
us that when we get called

before the judges not
to think in advance what

we're going to say
but let the spirit

lead and speak through us.

I think that passage refers
to how you should respond when

the authorities detain you.

You know, like advice for
apostles on martyrdom.

Yeah, maybe you're right.

But I just feel that
there's not enough evidence

or sufficient logical arguments
to sway a militaristic atheist

and especially one who's built
his life without God upon

the foundations of evolution.

Only the Holy Spirit can
penetrate their defenses

and reach their
heart and their mind.

Yeah, but what
about his audience?

I mean, couldn't there perhaps
be some among them that are not

quite so hardcore, some that
maybe keep a partially open mind

that maybe you
could reach with one

of your compelling arguments?

Maybe so, John, maybe so.

But with so little time to
prepare and my advanced age,

I just can't see how
cramming for that test

is gonna pay any real dividends.

I think I need to just
throw myself on God's mercy

and let him do his thing.

If you change your
mind, let me know.

Will do.
Thank you.

Anybody else?

Excuse me.

If you're looking for a table,
you can share mine with me.

Oh, that's kind of you.

Thanks.

I can't tell you how good
it feels to get off my feet.

Why not?

Is it a secret?

Are you one of those
guys I'm going to have

to watch my phraseology with.

I do keep people
on their toes.

Oh, and here I was
trying to get off mine.

The issue is a hard
hospital floor.

Oh, you're a nurse?

Physician.

Really, they
let people practice

medicine at such a young age?

Is your vision that bad,
or are you a compliment male?

I'm pretty sure nobody's
ever accused me of being that.

I'm Trey, by the way.

Trey by the way, your first
name rhymes with your last.

Oh, a sense of humor.

I like it-- beauty, brains,
and banter all in one package.

I didn't catch yours.

I didn't throw it.

Humph, OK, well, I guess I'll
call you Beauty until you do.

So Beauty, do you reveal your
real name on the second date?

Second date?

I sure hope you don't
consider this a first date.

I don't believe in dating.

You don't believe in dating?

Well, I can provide plenty of
evidence that dating exists.

It's kind of my thing.

Bit of a science geek.

I'm not sure what science
has to do with social dating,

but I don't need proof.

I know it exists.

I just don't join
in the practice.

Well, why not, if I
may be so bold to ask?

Dating is a fairy tale world.

A handsome young man asks out
a girl whose appearance makes

his heart go thumpity-thump.

He probably has
no clue what she's

really like as a real person.

They go on a date, maybe
dinner and a movie.

They spend most of the
time in the restaurant

chewing their food and a
few hours in the theater.

They could spend four
hours together and not

know much more about each other
than before the night started.

So they go on a
second date to fix that.

And do it all over again.

I mean, no matter what they do,
it's always something pleasant,

and they're always on
their best behavior.

Their hormones are
percolating, so they

think they're in love
and jump into marriage

with great expectations
and little wisdom.

After the rice
has been swept up,

they suddenly realize that
everything that bugs them

is suddenly brought to light.

Whoa.

You've just dissected
dating as if it were a frog

and crammed it into a
jar of formaldehyde.

Ah, you really are
a science geek, huh?

Yeah.

Well, OK, so you're a doctor.

That means we have a
mutual interest in science.

I think that's cool.

You know, you can tell a
lot about a person by what

kind of coffee they drink.

What sort of a exotic
mixture you got in that cup?

Green tea.

I don't like coffee.

Oh, well, I'm batting
about zero right now.

Hmm, sports analogy.

Science guy can diversify.

Thank you for noticing.

Well, I better get
back to the hospital.

Duty calls.

Will I see you again?

My dad used to sing this
song, Que Sera, Sera--

whatever will be, will be.

Oh, I thought
that was Doris Day.

Oh, I made her laugh.

My life is totally not in vain.

Jeweli.

Excuse me?

My name is Jeweli.

And your last name?

I have a feeling if
I gave you that, you'd

break a leg or something
so you'd need a doctor.

Why didn't I think of that?

OK, well, if you won't
tell me your last name,

will you at least tell me
what hospital you work at?

Thanks for the chair.

Have a good day.

Wait, wait, wait, at least
take my car just in case

you get the urge to call.

Hey, Siri, who are the
doctors in Lexington,

Kentucky with the name Julie--

J-U-L-I-E or J-U-L-I?

Sorry, I couldn't
find any doctors

named Julie in Lexington.

So I figured if you'd hide out
in the garden and didn't answer

the door, I'd go away.

Oh, Dad, I can't believe you
braved the traffic to

come visit me.

I know how much you hate
the big cities.

Not that Lexington is
exactly huge.

Well, it's too big for me.

You know, you could come
visit me sometime.

Yeah, so when's your debate?

Tomorrow at 10:00 AM.

Are you nervous?

Nervous at my age, Lori.

About the only thing that makes
me nervous is driving in
heavy traffic.

Though I am just a little
concerned that I might be cannon

fodder for this guy's mockery
tomorrow.

Be anxious and nothing.

You will be fine.

Okay, well, come on in.

Let's get you settled.

Let me get my stuff first.

All right, you need help?

Lori, I'm a guy.

- Enough said.
- Yeah.

Welcome to another
episode of Chilling

with the Renegade Scientist.

My guest today is
Douglas Connors.

He is a writer and maker
of Christian movies.

Welcome, Douglas.

Thank you, Trey.

So Douglas wanted to have a
conversation about evolution.

And obviously, he has some
difficulty embracing the truth.

So Douglas, let's just
first off and tell

me why you are antiscience?

Hold on!

I'm not antiscience.

I am antipseudoscience
and definitely anti

political science, which
involves a study where

the results are
intentionally skewed based

on who paid for the research--

for example, a study on
the dangers of butter

paid for by the margarine
industry, or vice versa.

Not all, quote
unquote, "science"

is-- is equal, you know?

Me, I'm all about the truth.

Me too.

So what is your primary
objection to evolution?

Ooh, so many to choose from.

Well, my biggest
objection is this,

that despite the fact that the
ideas generated by evolution

concerning the flora and
fauna that we see around us,

they're historical
in nature and can't

be replicated and
tested in the laboratory

using the scientific method.

Even though that's
true, these ideas

are forced down kids throats
and other people's throats

all over the world as if
they're slam dunk factual.

And no real discussion
about other explanations

and possibilities
is even permitted.

OK, so just to
be clear here, you

are not advocating that
the teaching of evolution

be removed from the classroom?

Not at all.

No, my mantra is,
teach the controversy.

Get kids to think
and present the idea,

one that's been believed
by billions of people

over the centuries, that an
omnipotent creator designed

this universe and specifically
this planet and all the life

forms therein right
alongside Darwin

and all those neo-Darwinists
who evolved his theory.

That's material
for religion class.

Religion and science
should not be mingled.

Well, my definition of
science is the discovery

by man of the world that God
created with all its laws

and its elements
and its properties

as confirmed by the
scientific method.

I'm afraid, Douglas, you
don't get to define science.

You should probably stick
to defining religion.

The Bible already did that.

James wrote that
pure religion is

to visit widows and
orphans in their distress

and keep oneself
unspotted from the world.

Oh, I bet the Muslims
and the Hindus and the Jews

and about a zillion
other religions

are just thrilled to hear that.

And by the way, there are a lot
of atheists who give charity

to orphans and widows
and live according

to their own moral standards.

Oh, so everyone gets to set
their own moral standards?

There's no universal standard
that applies to everybody?

Well, that's the beauty
of not believing in God.

He can't force his
values onto us.

But we digress.

Our conversation was supposed
to be focused on evolution.

Let's get back on track.

Okey-dokey.

Um, let me throw
some names at you.

OK.

Franklin Harold, who
happens to be a biochemist--

that's a scientist.

Ugh, Douglas.

He wrote in a book that was
published by Oxford University

Press, there are presently no
detailed Darwinian accounts

of the evolution of any
biochemical or cellular system,

only a variety of
wishful speculations.

Well, that's
one man's opinion.

One scientist's opinion.

OK, one scientist's
opinion, but there

are a myriad of other scientists
who will disagree with him.

And one thing I just--

I think we have
to point out here

right now is that interpretation
is key in the quest for truth.

First, Douglas, there's
the interpretation

of the evidence itself.

And then we have to
interpret the words

of the scientists who are
describing their interpretation

of that evidence.

That's a good point.

Yeah, but what did Harold
really mean when he said,

detailed Darwinian accounts?

It seems like the devil is
always in the details, huh?

Well, I don't
believe in the devil.

Go figure.

Well, in my
experience, just about

every evolutionist
interprets all evidence

as confirming evolution.

And if they can't do that, they
either reject that evidence

or ignore it, along with
the people who bring

that evidence to the table.

You creationists have
such a persecution complex.

Well, maybe with reason.

You know, it's bad enough
to ignore evidence.

But I think it's even
worse to manufacture it.

And you guys do that sometimes.

Let me cite a concrete example.

Don't worry, I won't
mention Nebraska

Man or Haeckel's drawings.

Richard Dawkins
likes to demonstrate

how evolution works using
a computer program analogy.

So there's a computer
program that's

going to spell out a phrase,
methinks it is like a weasel.

So let's see if I can
explain this so even

a scientist can understand it.

Let's start with the
letter A. So we got

a one-celled organism, an A.

OK.

Well, the computer is going
to generate a new letter

and it's going to compare that
against and see if it gets

a capital M because it's
looking for a capital M.

And it gets an O. It
says no, throw it away.

It goes again.

It randomly generates
another mutation.

It's a P. Throw it away.

And then it comes up
with a capital M finally.

And it mutates that A into
an M. So now, we've got an M.

But it keeps on
generating mutations.

And we come across, finally,
after about 25 tries, a small e.

So now it appends
that onto the M.

Now we got a
two-celled organism.

It spells M-E. And
it continues that

whole process until
it spells out,

methinks it is like a weasel.

And then the program just stops.

And your point?

My point?

First of all, the
computer knows the answer.

It knows where to drop in
every one of those letters

and knows when to stop.

Natural selection doesn't
have any intelligence

to make such a decision.

You know, it doesn't
know what the goal is.

In fact, it doesn't
understand goals.

It doesn't have
any understanding.

It doesn't have
any intelligence.

It don't know squat.

You know, it doesn't
have any brakes either

and can't start mutations,
and much less stop them.

So in real life, if you've got
to have mutations happening,

there's nothing to
stop them, we could

end up with a sentence, methinks
Richard Dawkins is a weasel.

You know, this whole analogy
is a logical hot mess.

But when Richard
Dawkins trots out

his little dog and
pony show, people

like you stand up and cheer.

And if someone like me says, you
know, the emperor doesn't have

any clothes on, we get
laughed out of Dodge City

like we're some kind of idiots.

You know, I don't know
enough about computers to doubt

or even criticize Dawkins.

Oh, how convenient.

Well, I do.

In fact, out of
curiosity, I wrote

a program to do exactly this.

It took me 17 minutes.

Runs on my PC in
less than a second.

It took about 8,000,
on average, mutations

to spell out the whole phrase.

Am I supposed to be
impressed with that?

Fat chance of that.

But that's not my goal.

Let me drop another name here.

James Tour is a
scientist who likes

to debate other scientists
using science only,

even though he is a Christian.

But his opponents always
attack his scientific arguments

by labeling him as a
Christian and a creationist,

as if that invalidates
any evidence

that he brings to the table.

He goes out of his way
not to mention God.

And they always have to bring up
the fact that he is religious.

Tour is an idiot.

So you've solved
one of his challenges?

You know, he said that if
anybody solves one of them,

he'll take down every
one of his videos.

Douglas, he specializes
in the origins of life.

That does not involve
evolution, which is my focus,

and involves the changes
within life, not its inception.

And that's also not the focus
of our discussion today.

I really hate to come across
sounding like a dictator here,

but I must insist that
we keep our conversation

steered towards that topic.

So, OK, just so we're on
the same page, what is

your definition of evolution?

Definitions are critical.

Yeah.

In fact, we should have
started this discussion

with this question.

OK, my definition of evolution
involves macroevolution.

I have no problem
with microevolution,

which is changes and
adaptations within a species.

Now, macroevolution is the
goo to you via the zoo theory

that all life started out
as one-celled organisms

and progressed through
millions of years

through gradual
nondirected mutations

through the DNA which proved
to be advantageous to survival.

Really?

Well, no wonder you'd
have a problem with that.

I would have a
problem with evolution

based on that definition.

You know, evolution is
so much more complex

than just mutation selection.

First of all, microevolution
demonstrates the process

that leads to macroevolution.

And there's lots
of other changes

that are involved than
just mutation selection.

Are you familiar with
the term epigenetics?

No.

OK, how about alleles?

No.

OK, thought so.

Well, without any changes
to the DNA sequencing,

epigenetic expression
changes lead

to new functionality in the
phenotype containing that DNA.

And the natural stressors
also lead to such alterations.

Without such knowledge,
Douglas, you're

not equipped to just go poking
holes in any scientific theory.

And there's lots of
Christians out there

who accept both
God and evolution.

The two don't have to
be mutually exclusive.

Though, I personally find
the idea of God in heaven

to be repulsive.

Well, Richard Dawkins did say
one thing that I agree with.

He said that the Bible,
the God of the Bible,

and macroevolution
are not compatible.

They can't coexist.

You know, if God
created everything,

all life, as he says
he does in the Bible,

and there is evolution, that
means that he created all

those beings with the ability
to mutate and to evolve,

which means there was
intelligence involved,

and he directed it.

And by very definition of
evolution, which you will admit,

there can be no direction
or intelligence involved.

You know, to rephrase the old
chicken versus egg question,

which came first, DNA,
or the first mutation

what brought about a change?

And while you're struggling
with that conundrum,

I'm gonna throw out
the bold statement

that only a creator
could explain the coding

sequences that we find in DNA.

Well, let me throw in a
name for you, Douglas, Stephen

Hawking Stephen Hawking said,
religion is a fairy tale

for people afraid of the dark.

Ah-huh.

Mm-hmm.

And John Lennox said that
atheism is a fairy tale

for people afraid of the light.

Oh, brother.

Lennox is a mathematician
and a senile old man.

Senile?

That's probably your
assessment of me.

You know, I really think that
we cannot preclude common sense

and logic when we're
discussing science

which can't be proven in the
lab with scientific method.

You know, to actually
arrive at truth,

we have to be able to follow
evidence where it leads.

You know, if you omit design
as a possibility of explaining

the complexity and the
diversity of life around us,

I'm afraid that you've
eliminated the possibility

of obtaining truth.

And around and around and
around in circles we go.

Douglas, I'm just afraid
we're not gonna agree on this.

Could be.

I would just advise
you that eternity

is a long time to be wrong.

Oh, was I supposed
to be afraid of that?

OK, well, we're gonna
to take a quick break.

And we will be right back
with more scintillating debate

on Chilling With the
Renegade Scientist.

Be right back.

My sister is late, as usual.

If she's not here soon, I'm
dishing up the food, Dad.

Oh, there she is.

Hey.

Honey.

How did the debate go?

Oh, I think I bombed it.

Really, why?

Well, I was doing pretty
good at the beginning.

I think I was holding my own.

And then we had an
intermission with a commercial,

and he started throwing
scientific terms at me

and got me all rattled.

And I started to hem and haw.

And I couldn't think of the
things I should have said

until I drove back to Lori's.

I was about as
authoritative as Mr. Rogers.

You know, when I first got
into this culture clash gig,

I pondered reverting
back to the old me when

I had a sword-like wit and I was
not afraid or ashamed to use it.

But that just didn't
seem to be the way

Jesus would want me to roll.

So I just try to have
respect for everybody,

even when I'm arguing
with people like him.

Who is him, and did he
attack you personally?

Well, he goes by the handle,
The Renegade Scientist.

And no, he was nice,
bit misguided, but nice.

Though, he did kind of treat
me like an infant whose mouth

he was trying to spoon Pablum.

You know, I would use a
different word for what he was

trying to feed me,
but I try not to use

words like that, especially
in front of you guys.

You know, the
kicker is, this dude

said that Heaven, with all
its peace and love and joy,

sounded like a repulsive place.

I mean, how can you
even reach somebody who

doesn't want to go to Heaven?

Yeah.

Wow, that's a
tough nut to crack.

Yeah, tell me.

It just hurts my heart when
I meet people like him.

I read their comments
online and their opinions.

Like, the combative spirit
just comes out in me, you know?

But then when I
meet 'em in person,

compassion just kind
of oozes out of me.

How do you get entangled with
these guys in the first place?

It's kind of crazy.

I really don't
understand it myself.

It seems like I'm
a magnet to 'em,

like there's a reverse-cultic
fascination or something.

They watch my movies just
so they can make fun of them

and me, of course.
- Well, that's not very nice.

Yeah.

They can be pretty brutal too.

Yeah.

You know, one kid, he puts all
his videos on TikTok, the ones

he's made of me,
making fun of me,

and had over 12 million views.

12 million?

Yeah, it seems like nobody
knows me in the Christian world.

But among the Instagram
and TikTok crowd that

embraces atheism, I'm infamous.

Wow.

Well, maybe you're called
to reach those people instead

of preaching to the choir.

Yeah, I was thinking
the same thing.

I mean, maybe God
will use this video

in a way you never
foresaw, so don't

despair thinking you blew it.

Yeah.

You know, I've had thoughts
along that line before.

I thought, maybe when the
proverbial stuff hits the fan--

You mean Pablum?

Yeah.

When that Pablum hits the fan.

These people are
gon-- some of them,

anyway, hopefully, will
start looking for answers.

And maybe something
I've presented to them

will help them discover at
least a path to the truth

and, hopefully, life
eternal in Christ Jesus,

maybe even after
I'm dead and gone.

Jesus tarries.

Yeah.

Amen.

Well, I know it's
too late for us

to pray about changing
your words in the debate.

But we can pray that the Holy
Spirit will touch the hearts

of those who watch the video.

Amen.

Mhm, let's do that
right after we eat.

Okey-doke.

I can take a hint.
- Yeah.

A subtle one.

I'm starving.

Me too.

What you got her?

Oh, hey there,
elusive Dr. Jeweli.

You mind if we join you?

Who's your friend?

Benjamin Bates,
coworker, right-hand man,

and chief groupie.

You know, Trey wouldn't be
where he is today without me.

Really?

Yeah, it's because I drove
him to the coffee shop.

You're driving me to drinking.

Oh, in this case, quite
literally, though, only coffee.

But one day, Trey, I'm
gonna get you to imbibe

something a bit stronger.

Dude, you know that
my whole point in life

is to keep my wits about me and
to be in control at all times.

Your beverages of choice
don't fit into that plan.

Right, well, it's too bad you
don't have a life to control.

Hey, I didn't sit down
with this lovely lady

to cross swords with you.

So why don't you put
a lid on it or go

powder your nose or something?

Or, get this, I
could punch yours.

You don't believe in violence.

And I could suspend that
belief for, I don't know,

three seconds.

And I could suspend you from a
chandelier for about three days.

- You feeling lucky, Trey?
- Ah-huh.

Guys, hey, how about
you throttle back

the testosterone just
a couple of notches?

Tell you what.

I'll go powder my nose,
and you two can work out

your hostilities in my absence.

OK.

We'll see you.

You have $5 says
she's not coming back.

She's coming back.

And I'll pay you $5 to
pretend to be mad at me

and leave me here
stranded without a ride.

Deal.

Um, and how exactly you plan
on getting to the office?

No, you don't mean--
you don't think--

Exactly.

Well, that's a long
walk if she refuses.

You want me to hang out in the
parking lot for a couple minutes

in case your plan
doesn't work out?

Though, I still
get to keep the $5.

No, thanks.

But actually, change of plans.

I don't want to expose her to
the displeasure of our fighting

again, so why
don't you take off,

you leave me here
without a ride,

and we'll spare her the pain.

All right, works for me.

Hope you got some comfortable
walking shoes on though, Trey.

Did you and Benjamin
achieve world peace?

Actually, he got
so mad at me that he

told me to take a long hike.

And he took off and left
me here without a ride.

So I guess that's exactly
what I'm gonna have to do.

How far do you have to go?

Six miles.

Oh.

You don't seem too
shook up about it.

Well, it what it is.

I mean, why spoil a nice day
and a pleasant conversation

by getting bent out of shape?

So, how you been?

Busy, as usual.

Are you going to reveal
your last name today?

After all, it is
the second date.

Your definition of a date
and mine are worlds apart.

Do you just have so
many guys hitting on you

that you can afford to ignore
a guy like me who fell in love

with you at first sight?

I don't have any guys hitting
on me because I don't go

into places where that happens.

Oh.

So your goal in
life is to be alone.

No, I'm just waiting for
the right one to come along,

someone with the
same goals in life.

Well, how do you know
that that's not me?

We haven't even
discussed goals yet.

I'm not feeling it.

But I guess I could be wrong.

Ooh, do I detect just a tiny
little sliver of an opportunity

to win you over?

Let me give you a clue as
how to enhance the opportunity.

Just let it flow naturally.

Don't try to force anything with
flattery and fakery and flowers.

And definitely don't throw the
L word around there casually.

Flattery, fakery, flowers,
that's a lot of F words.

But I guess you're
saying I should

pump the brakes a little bit.

Yeah.

Speaking of breaks, I gotta go.

If you want a ride,
it's now or never.

Now would be awesome.

Well, I know better
than to ask for a kiss,

but could I ask one more
time for your last name?

Gotta admire the persistence.

Tell you what.

Next time we run into each
other at the coffee shop,

I'll reveal the big secret.

Well, that makes my day.

I guess I'll just have to
work down there all day

just so I won't miss you.

Well, I might come
in during the evening.

Then I'll work all day and
all night till they kick me out.

Whatever.

Well, now I'm kicking
you out of my car.

I've got things to do.

Roger that.

Well, thank you for saving my
shoes, my time, maybe my life

with your token of generosity.

You're welcome.

Hey, hey.

So you make it to first base?

Not quite.

But I did get to the
plate, and the pitcher

is sharing signals with me.

So I have an idea how
to make solid contact.

Right, no, I'll believe
that when I see it.

So what do you want
to work on today?

Let's get that
debate edit complete

and upload it to
YouTube and TikTok.

And I wanna like
stink on sardines, Trey.

Hey, Dad, what's up?

Hey, kiddo.

Hey, check your email.

I just sent you and your
sister a link to my debate

out on YouTube.

I'll watch it tonight.

Hey, but don't-- don't
be too disappointed

if Jeweli doesn't get
to it for a bit, OK?

Yeah, I know how
slammed she is.

It's all good.

You know, everything
in God's timing.

Who is that?

Some guy who thinks
he's in love with me.

What?

I know.

And you never
told me about him?

No, there's nothing to tell.

I mean, he tried to make
a pass, and I swatted it

down at the line of scrimmage.

I want to meet him.

Lori, no.

Yeah.

Lori, I--

Hi, I'm Lori.

Oh, hey.

I'm--

The Renegade Scientist!

Oh, you've seen my videos.

Just one, the one
where you debated

my father about evolution.

Douglas is your dad?

Wow!

Ah-huh, hers too.

Jeweli's my sister.

Gee, Jeweli, you've been
hobnobbing with the enemy.

Uh, hold on now.

Enemy's such a strong word.

You made fun of our dad.

It was all in good
sport, nothing personal.

My thing is making fun
of all Christian movies.

But I kind of liked
talking to your dad.

Jeweli, did you get
to watch the debate?

I hadn't found the time.

Well, I guess I don't have
to tell you my last name.

- Connors?
- Mm-hmm.

Which means you
must be Lori Connors.

Nope, Lori Atwater.

My husband is a
marine, by the way.

OK, I'll keep that in mind.

Um, so can I assume
that you girls

share your dad's convictions
about God and evolution?

Absolutely.

Does that mean that you're
set on marrying a believer?

Not just any believer.

The Bible says that demons
believe and tremble.

I want to marry someone
whose whole life

is dedicated to serving God,
not me, and not himself.

CS Lewis said, Christianity,
if false, is of no importance,

if true, is of
infinite importance.

The one thing it cannot be
is moderately important.

So my mantra is, my
heart is yearning

after someone who is running
after God, not after me.

If he's doing that,
I'll run to catch him.

So you must be scratching my
name off the list of candidates

right now.

Truthfully, I never
put you on the list.

You know, you Christians are
supposed to be all about sharing

your faith with others.

Prove to me that God
exists, and I'll believe.

I don't missionary date.

No, no.

You said you don't date at all.

True, but I don't fall
in love with someone

and then try to convert them.

And I definitely don't promise
to fall in love with someone

if they believe in Jesus.

They have to do that
without any ulterior motive.

After that, que sera sera.

So you're just gonna
let my soul rot in hell.

Ah!

You said in your debate that
you didn't believe in Hell.

Yeah, well, maybe you
also picked up on the fact

that I said, I want
to have the truth.

And would you really risk
alienating your entire audience

that's paying you
rather handsomely,

I might add, with
their views and clicks

by repudiating evolution?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I didn't say anything
about deep-sixing

my scientific convictions.

This was about
searching for God.

Well, if you find
God, I can guarantee

that you'll have
no use for Charles

Darwin and Richard Dawkins.

That's a bold statement.

So are you up for the
challenge of showing me God?

I'll have to think
and pray about it.

If the Lord wants me to do
it, I won't shirk my duty,

as unpleasant as it may be.

Oh, gosh, no one's
gonna accuse you

of being a sunshine pumping
mill throwing out compliments

like candy to parade.

But think about it all you want.

And if you would
do me the courtesy

of giving me a call with your
decision, I'd be appreciative.

Oh, what have I done?

There are so many
people living life in misery

Victims of our neglect

They cry out for help

The crowds walk on by

Too busy to care

And they cry out to you

Will you walk on too tonight?

Reach out to them

Reach out to them tonight

So many lonely girls

So many lonely guys

So many lonely hearts
crying out for love

So many lonely girls

So many lonely guys

So many lonely hearts
crying out for love

Reach out to them

God wants everyone to be safe

And to know the truth

God wants everyone to be safe

And to know the truth

Reach out to them

Reach out to them

Reach out to them

Am I crazy for even
considering this?

Absolutely not.

You know, the Bible says that
we need to contend for our faith

and be ready to give
answer to every man

for the hope that's within us.

This is an opportunity.

You know, I took a swing
at this and missed.

But you have a leverage
that I don't have

that's gonna
motivate him to look

beyond his scientific safe room.

I don't even
have time for this.

Honey, you never
have time for anything.

You have to make time
for what's important.

You still exercise every day?

Yeah, just like you taught me.

Kill two birds
with one stone--

exercise, educate,
train at the same time.

Yeah, multitask, why
didn't I think of that?

Oh, you would have eventually.

I'm gonna be
sending you an email

with some of the
vulnerabilities that I

failed to attack in our debate.

And I'll be praying
for you too, kiddo.

All right.
Thanks, Dad.

That sounds good.

Love you.

Love you more.

Bye.

It's your dime.

Start talking.

I think your phrase
is out of date.

Coin-operated phones cost more
than a dime if you can find one.

The quest for truth
knows no rest, huh?

Thanks for setting me straight.

My pleasure.

So I-- I watched the debate.

Did you truly mean it when you
said that the truth was the most

important thing to you?

Oh, yeah, with all my heart.

All right, so I'll accept
your proposal to-- oh,

let me rephrase that.

I'll accept your request
to be your tour guide

on the search for God
under some conditions.

Name them.

We have to do a lot of
our talking at the gym.

We talk while I work out.

Can you handle that?

Do bears sleep in the woods?

I've actually been thinking
about joining a gym.

JEWELI (ON PHONE) Oh, 6:00 AM.

Ooh, yeah, I don't know if
my brain engages that early.

But I'm willing
to give it a shot.

What else?

That's it.

Wow.

OK, well, what gym,
and when do we start?

Brickhouse Gym, tomorrow.

Oh, yeah, I've
heard of that place.

By the way, I've got a
little confession to make.

While I was trying to figure
out your last name and which

hospital you worked at,
I was looking for "Julie"

through all the hospital
staff directory lists.

And it's not fair that your
parents spelled it J-E-W-E-L-I.

Though, I do find
it appropriate,

considering you are a gem.

Ah, ah, ah, no flattery.

And what were you gonna
do once you've found

out what hospital I worked at?

Well, well, I was trying to
figure out how I could break

my leg without any actual
pain, it occurred to me

that just because you
work at a hospital

didn't mean that you
worked in the ER.

You could have turned
out to be a proctologist.

But now I see that
you're a pediatrician,

so I'm really glad I didn't
take a hammer to my femur.

See you tomorrow at 6:00 AM.

By the way, there might be pain
involved if you're out of shape.

OK.

Bye, Jeweli.

I gotta tell you,
going at that slow pace

is basically worthless.

I watched a video
once where they

explained the effects of certain
paces as far as longevity goes.

And below a certain
threshold, there

was no advantage to exercise.

I didn't know that.

But see, I'm not afraid to
confess to my ignorance.

So how much do you
know about religion?

Well, my parents
are believers.

I was raised in the
Presbyterian Church.

I could not wait to
get out of there,

to get them out of
controlling my life.

You really are a renegade.

Well, I mean, I call
them like I see 'em.

I had lots of questions
about God and the Bible.

And you know, they just kind
of blew me off and said,

just believe.

I don't roll like that.

Do you think,
perhaps, the problem

was with your denomination
and not Jesus and the Bible?

No, I pretty much dismissed
every flavor of Christianity

as lacking.

Well, not exactly
a wise assumption,

based on your
limited experience.

OK, OK, so stipulated.

So where do we begin this
quest to broaden my mind?

Well, I figure, since you're a
science guy, let's start there.

But you have to dispense on
your boundaries with naturalism.

If you won't allow God in
a scientific discussion,

then this exercise
will be futile.

OK, so what exactly
does that look like?

Weigh all evidence
with this question.

Could God be the
answer to the whodunit?

And would God be a
more likely answer

than what naturalism provides?

That sounds like
two questions to me.

Or two sides of the same
question, but let's not

get bogged down by semantics.

I agree.

Hey, before we get started,
you're a doctor, right?

So you have all this
formal science training.

How is it that you
can reject evolution?

Since evolution is the glue
that holds all biology together?

Exactly.

My dad laughed
when you said that.

But he failed to press
you on the topic.

I found that I had no
need for macroevolution

in learning about the
body's processes like birth

and the health of
babies and mothers.

And the historical
origin of Homo sapiens

isn't really a regard to me
since it doesn't change the fact

that our typical normal body
temperature is 98.6 degrees

and we can only survive
a few days without water

and a few minutes
without oxygen.

I don't need Darwin to
care for my patients,

but I venture to guess the
same is true for anyone

working in the field of biology.

Ready for the next one?

I guess.

That's good.

So you reject
evolution because you

don't find it useful?

I reject macroevolution
because I

find it unsatisfactory in
explaining the diversity

and complexity of life.

I mean, the glue of biology
is the spark of life.

And you admit that scientists
don't even know what life is.

Your theory depends on all these
miraculous, remarkable changes

to organisms over
millions of years.

The explanation that God created
things are the way they are is

leaves no need for
any other explanation.

Well, I explained to
your dad that various types

of mutations and
natural selection

could account for
that diversity.

OK, but the fairy
tale-like progressions

of those mutations defies
belief by a rational person.

He tried to pin you
down into explaining how

the blood and the blood
vessels and the lungs

and the liver and the brain
could all have evolved slowly.

But you squirmed
out of the question

by citing your evidence for
things that we have witnessed.

But can you draw a picture of
a complex organ, like a heart,

evolving into being along with
the miles of blood vessels

and the lungs
bringing in the oxygen

that carries the
blood to the cells?

And don't just try to evade
the question by giving me

the lame answer that changes in
DNA could pull off that miracle.

Most intelligent
people don't consider

that to be a lame answer.

Well, draw the picture.

You can't do it.

And that's why you have
to evade the question

with coulds and might haves.

A human being is not
like an airplane where

the seats and the
wheels and the engine

can all be blueprinted and
put into place one at a time

until the whole
airplane is complete.

A human being is like--

a human being has to
survive during the process

of the changes.

You can't blueprint the process
for survival when survival

is required for the process.

And that's logic 101.

Did anyone ever
tell you how pretty

look when you get animated?

Are you derailing my
argument with petty flattery?

Let me use another analogy.

So there's a guy sitting
on top of a mountain.

The bottom of the mountain
has handholds and footholds,

and one could get up partway
without much of a problem.

But the top of the mountain is
steep and smooth and slippery.

Ah, a slippery slope, huh?

Exactly.

And you would say that he,
obviously, climbed up there

because he's there,
and there's evidence

of him being on the lower
part of the mountain.

Yeah.

But remember, he'd have about
billions of years to get there.

Doesn't matter.

You can multiply zero by
any number in the universe,

and the answer still
comes out to be zero,

no matter how many years go by.

There are limitations
that time cannot overcome.

You evolutionists accuse us of
applying the God of the gaps,

but you invoke the
time of the gaps.

Whatever, Jeweli.

Math and science
are not the same.

And we're not dealing
with the number zero.

But OK, with your slippery slope
analogy, what's the answer,

that God put him there?

Well, if that's the only
explanation for it, yeah.

I mean, if you scientist
interviewed him and he said

that God beamed him up
there, you'd completely

ignore his testimony.

If his cancer is healed after
prayer, you ignore that.

Anything that points to God
must be avoided and suppressed.

Well, speaking of
prayer, scientists

have found no tangible
proof that there's

some divine being beaming
health into people from afar.

But you know, Jeweli, I know
lots of atheists who were once

believers who walked
away from their faith

because God never
showed up and showed out

when they cried onto him.

God is not some trained
monkey that performs

on demand for a banana.

Even we Christians
don't understand

why he acts in some
cases and not in others.

But he's certainly not going to
respond to experimental prayer

meant to manipulate him.

God's ways are higher than ours.

Of course, because that
makes for a pet answer

all doubts reply.

You know, Jeweli,
Christians don't

have airtight arguments either.

In fact, they got a
lot of wacky ideas.

Such as?

OK, well, according
to your Bible,

Jesus was in the grave three
days and three nights, right?

And you celebrate his
death on Good Friday.

So OK, if he was laid in
the tomb on Friday night

and he rose on Sunday morning,
that seems like it's three days,

but it's actually only
two full days of time.

But here's the kicker.

It only involves two nights.

And it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to figure out that you

guys celebrate a contradiction.

I know.

You're absolutely right.

You admit it?

Mm-hmm.

But that's man's mistake.

I mean, the Bible
doesn't say that it

happened on a Friday, but rather
the first day of Passover.

And that feast
changes days according

to the Hebrew lunar calendar.

The year Jesus died, it
must have been a Thursday.

And the only time that happened
during Herod's reign was 30 AD.

And not 33 AD.

Exactly.

Hah!

Why wasn't I ever told this?

I mean, it seems like
everybody's been celebrating

his death on Good
Friday, when it

should have been on a Thursday.

And how in the world do you
know so much about this?

Well, I was bugged by the
same puzzle, so I researched it.

The time division between BC
and AD didn't happen until,

like, 500-something.

There was a monk that was
instrumental in making

that determination.

It seems like he was off
by about three years.

That blows my mind.

But you know what?

In reality, it doesn't
change anything.

You know, the dates don't prove
that Jesus rose from the dead,

that he was the son of God,
or that God even exists.

You know, Christians have a
lot of other warts as well.

You know, we don't
have a perfect religion.

There is no perfect religion.

But we do have a perfect savior.

Well, I can't disagree
with you on the first part

of your statement.

But it is refreshing
to meet somebody

with the intellectual
honesty to admit that.

It'd be nice to
find an evolutionist

who would admit to the warts
of Darwinism and neo-Darwinism.

And you want that
person to be me?

Look, Jeweli, you
can get me up 6:00 AM,

sweat out a gallon
of sweat every day,

but don't overestimate
your powers of persuasion.

And your time is up for today.

So how'd that
workout session go?

Frustrating.

You know how I led her dad
to follow my narrative?

Yeah.

Well, the daughter is
having no part of that.

She is a tough cookie.

You know, every time
I look at her, Benji,

it's like, she's so dang cute
that my mind just turns to mush.

Look, I told you to
be careful, all right?

First off, you look
on YouTube, there

are plenty of videos of atheists
converting to Christianity.

And what I'd hate is to see
you, Trey, become a statistic.

Yeah, but there's
probably an equal number

of videos of Christians
who became atheists,

biblical scholars, even.

You know, a lot of their
musical celebrities

are recanting their faith.

Maybe I could make a
statistic out of her.

Trey, not to be a Debbie
Downer, but my money's on her.

Here's my thought.

You pretend to convert,
and then you bed

her and wed her if you want.

Benjamin, what kind of a
slimeball do you think I am?

Why don't you focus on the show?

Get ready!

All right.

I feel a burden
for Trey today.

Don't you always?

Well, yes, but it
just-- it seems different.

I mean, it just
seems like something

special is happening today.

Good special or bad special?

Well, I don't
know, maybe both.

I mean, maybe because God
is doing something special,

that Satan is applying
pressure to stop it.

I know.

We need to attack it
in prayer right now.

No, right now!

Sandy, Sandy.

What?

We've prayed for
him for years in vain.

First, he strayed a
little bit from the faith.

And then, he started pulling
others from their religion.

How long can you
keep doing this?

Hope deferred makes
the heart sick.

Well, I don't know
about you, but I can

and I will as long
as I draw breath.

OK.

Well, I hope you
weren't expecting

to win him over in one session.

I don't know what
I was expecting,

other than stubbornness.

I would expect you to
be equally as rock solid.

At least I have solid
ground to stand on.

Mhm.

So I watched this
movie the other night.

It was called The
Poseidon Adventure.

It's about a cruise ship
that gets turned upside down,

and there's a handful of
people that are convinced

by this pastor or priest--

I'm not sure which--
that they can climb

up to the bottom of the boat.

They can climb
up to the bottom.

Yeah, because
it's upside down.

Oh, gotcha.

There's this crew guy
that argues that they would

be safe by staying
where they are

and waiting for a rescue team.

And?

Well, they didn't
attempt the climb.

So most of the ones that sought
to escape following the pastor's

hunch made it out alive.

The rest, not so lucky.

Water poured in on them,
and, well, enough said.

So what's your point?

I see evolutionists as
being like that crew guy that

told the people that
there was no point in even

looking for an escape hatch.

We're just all going
to die, and it's over.

Well, we know that's not true.

So we look up, and we
climb up through Jesus.

The evolutionists, I mean,
at least the atheist ones,

right, they offer us no hope.

Right.

So we have to be
strong in our belief

and in our resolve to bring
as many with us to Heaven

as we can.

I'm trying.

I know.

I just-- I think that you need
help, more than I can provide,

you know?

Wait, did you say that Trey's
parents were Christian?

I did.

OK, crazy idea,
what if you contacted

them and prayed with them?

You know, like, little
synergy action going on there.

How am I gonna get
their contact info?

I can't just be like, hey, Trey,
can I get your parents' phone

number so we can tag team you on
some spiritual warfare prayer?

True.

That would be a little creepy.

So you said he's
originally from Kansas?

I did.

All right, let me see if I
can track them down for you.

Oh, that could be like looking
for a needle in a haystack.

Mhm.

I'm back.

And I'm surprised.

Thought I scared you away
with all the deep discussion.

Hey, I don't like
shallow conversation.

But with you, I need my
deep-sea diving equipment.

I like it.

Well, hook up
your oxygen tank.

Let's go again.

So yesterday, you said
that we had no proof

that Jesus rose from the dead.

I want to submit an
intriguing piece of evidence

that I believe does just that.

There's a cloth that bears
the image of a man that shows

all the characteristics
of what the Bible says

Jesus went through.

Oh, you're talking about
the Stroud of Turin, right?

Oh, you know about it.

It's been debunked.

Not so fast.

You atheists sure love to
sling that word around a lot.

One detractor shows up, and you
claim that debunks everything.

They did carbon
dating on the shroud,

and they found that
the date was way

too late to have anything to do
with Jesus of the first century.

Well, what if there was a
patch made on the cloth because

of the fire it went through,
and the carbon dating test

came from that section of cloth?

Well, then they would
get the date of the patch.

Mm-hmm, debunking
your debunking.

Is someone claiming
that happened?

Indeed.

Doesn't matter because the
supposed blood on the cloth

is not blood.

That was the opinion
of one guy who seemed

to be a bit of a charlatan.

But the other expert
said that it was blood.

But the kicker, the thing
that should intrigue

a scientist like yourself,
is that the image

itself cannot be explained.

It's like a negative that
was burned on the shroud

and only goes one fiber deep.

We don't have technology
that can do that today,

and there certainly
isn't evidence of there

being technology back then.

So you're saying
that Jesus left

a photographic
negative of himself

as a testimony of
his return to life?

Maybe.

I just think that someone
with an inquiring mind,

such as yours, someone
who wants to get down

to the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth,

would want to pursue that.

How do you know
so much about this?

My dad was working
with one of the members

that examined the shroud in
order to write a movie script.

Another one of your
dad's lame movies?

Did I say something wrong?

You know, I love my father.

I know you think he's a
nutcase, but I know better.

I'd appreciate it if you put
a lid on any rude comments

you want to make about him.

Jeez, sorry I ruffled
your pretty little feathers.

I'll check out the
shroud more in depth.

But I'm not sure that
it's acceptable evidence.

That's a key point.

You guys seem to
decide what is evidence

and what isn't based on
whether it fits your narrative

or not, hardly
scientific or something

a truth seeker would do.

I like to examine all
the evidence for myself

and not rely on the
opinions of others.

You know, Jeweli, there's a lot
of information, disinformation,

and misinformation out there.

And with AI's potential
to doctor and create media,

it's becoming a real challenge
to figure out what is true.

Yeah, I can certainly see a
great potential for the misuse

of that technology.

Well, in any case, check
out Barrie Schwortz on YouTube

talking about the shroud.

He was the photographer
on the team,

and he thought that, after five
minutes of examining the shroud,

they would pronounce
it to be fake.

Instead, he was
convinced that it wasn't.

Of course he did, because it
bolstered his Christian faith.

No, he's not a Christian.

He's a Jew.

Oh, interesting.

All right, well,
but OK, if he's so

convinced that it's real, then
why hasn't he embraced Jesus?

Excellent question.

My dad actually made
a movie about that

where the theme is, when
a Jew embraces Jesus,

he does not cease
to being a Jew.

I know I made fun
of that one too.

I'm sorry.

But you know, you should
actually be grateful to me

because my mocking actually
drives traffic to his movies.

Yeah, and your people show up
like chuckleheads at PT Barnum's

freak show at the circus.

The geeks and
the bearded ladies

and the midgets and the giants.

Now they marvel at the
bizarre Christians who stand

up for old-fashioned values.

Tell me something.

Anything.

Would you like
your groupies showing

up to laugh at your parents?

OK, uh, almost anything.

OK, well, why don't you pull
it out of me, why don't you,

all right?

I would not be happy if people
were mocking my parents.

I haven't talked
to them in ages,

but I know them to
be decent people.

Misguided, perhaps, but
they have good hearts.

Which you've
probably broken a bit.

Hey, you know, I can't
choose the same path in life

just because they want me to.

I gotta be me, Jeweli.

What else can I be but me?

My sister went
down that path too.

Lori?
- Yeah.

But now she's
back in the fold?

She is.

She went off to college a
good little Christian angel

and quickly got corrupted
in more ways than one.

Dad and I went through
hell as we fought

to help her find her way back.

But what about you?

You never wavered from the
path, just practically perfect

in every way?

You know, stupid people never
learn from their mistakes.

Intelligent people do.

Wise people learn
from others' mistakes

so they don't have to go through
the pain to absorb the lesson.

OK, wait a minute though.

I thought you said that you
went through hell and back

because Lori wandered off
the yellow brick road.

That sounds like pain to me.

Not all the pain she suffered,
collateral damage, maybe.

But bottom line, do
you still have at least

some love for your parents?

Truthfully, I don't
know what love is.

But I appreciate the fact they
brought me up in a good home.

Well, that's good.

At least that means there
is some hope for you.

But you can understand
why I get so agitated when

you make fun of my dad.

Yeah, and I'm sorry.

I won't do that again.

But will you take down the
videos where you do that?

Jeweli, my livelihood
comes from my content, OK?

That stuff was some
of my best releases.

I won't cut down your
dad in front of you,

but I'm not gonna go
erasing the past either.

Look, do you have some time to
get a coffee or tea or something

so we can continue
this conversation?

Yeah, but I only
have a few minutes.

Custard Cabins, cute place.

I've never seen it before.

Look around, Jeweli.

You know, I find it hard to
believe that you can look around

at all of the wonderful things
that God created for us,

and not see his handiwork.

For example?

Well, how about the
rebirth of spring?

All the trees seem to
die off in the winter,

but they're reborn in spring.

So you think that God created
the world to work like that

as a sign of eternal life?

Well, first of all, people
in the tropical zones

don't see that.

And second, that's not evidence.

You got something else?

Well, Jesus put
a lot of emphasis

on people producing fruit.

Look at all the fruit-bearing
plants and trees

and the healthy and
delicious aspects of them

and even the convenience.

Like, look at the banana
and how easy it is to peel

to obtain the good stuff.

And tell me, how does
producing that fruit

assist the tree in surviving?

Like the grapefruits,
for example,

they're comprised of 80% water.

Each grapefruit on that
tree is zapping water

resources from the tree itself.

Seems that having mutations
to take a nonbearing fruit

tree into one that produces
water and nutrient-dense produce

is not something that natural
selection would bless.

All right, well, first
of all, the grapefruit

is not a native plant
that God created.

It's a cross between pomelos
and Citrus sinensis, which

was a hybrid of Citrus
reticulata and Citrus

maxima-- evolution in action.

Whether hybrid or not,
where's the advantage

for the tree and growing pomelo
citrus whatever you said?

Wherever water is
plentiful, it's not a problem.

You guys act like if
you had enough time,

you could shake up a can
of LEGOs, dump it out,

and it would assemble itself
into the Taj Mahal, I mean,

complete with indoor
plumbing, heating and air,

electricity, and a Wi-Fi.

And that's crazy,
especially since we

know how complex cells are.

You can't tell me
where cells came from.

But you can say without a doubt
that they all came together

at some point to
create a human body

with all of its complex
and interworking systems.

Complexity is no argument
against evolution, Jeweli.

Are you kidding me?

Sure it is.

I mean, the more complex the
organism, the more difficult

the task, exponentially
more difficult even.

Your pet equation
seems to be anything

plus time equals everything.

Instead of invoking Father
God, you invoke Father Time.

We've been over this
before, time of the gaps,

as you called it.

Oh my gosh, I have to go.

Here, take a look at that
when you have a chance.

Please draw me a picture of
how gradual mutations could lead

to the formation of
a heart and a liver

and a set of lungs and blood
with clotting capability

and miles of blood vessels to
carry that blood and oxygen

and nutrients out to the
cells and return the waste

products to the liver.

If you can show me how all of
these intricate body functions

could develop over
time when all of them

are necessary for the
survival of a mammal,

I will abandon my belief
in God and join your side.

PS, I'm not worried because this
task is impossible Yeah, right.

Oh, boy.

Bingo.

His father's name is
Steven Crawford in Kansas.

All right.

We're sorry.

The number you have
dialed is not in service.

Oh, you've got
to be kidding me.

All right, Facebook,
don't let me down.

All right, there's the haystack.

Now to find the needle.

What's up?

So did you thread
that needle yet?

Not quite.

Actually, it was
almost a slam dunk.

And then the phone number that
was listed is no longer active.

So now, I'm going
through Facebook

and trying to find
a Steven Crawford.

And there is a lot of them.

Why couldn't his name
have been something

like Clem Kadiddlehopper?

But I promise you, I will
find that proverbial needle.

Well, what if they're
not on Facebook?

That would be a monkey
wrench in my gearbox.

Or if they are, and
they just never use it.

Wow, you are just a fountain
of encouragement, aren't you?

Sorry, just being real.

Well, you can be real happy
when I find the treasure.

That I can do.

Eureka!

Steven Crawford on Facebook.

But no phone number.

OK, plan B.

Hmm.

Hmm what?

Well, look, we just got
a message from a nonfriend

on our Facebook account.

She asks if we have
a son named Trey.

Should I answer her?

Sounds like a scam to me.

There are a zillion conmen
and women out there, you know?

Well, I know, and I'm always
very leery of strangers.

Why don't you ask them
why they want to know?

OK, hold on.

Oh, wow, here.

She, um-- she said sh--

she and her sister are
wanting to pray with us

over Trey that he
returns-- oh, my gosh,

that he returns to the Lord.

Wow!

That sounds like a
divine appointment.

It's a good thing
you got back to them.

Yeah.

Make it happen.

OK.

So what's up with Trey
and Jesus freak babe?

I have no idea.

He stopped confiding
in me after I

suggested he use some
less-than-noble tactics on her.

Now I'm afraid she's
put a spell on him

and has sabotaged his passion
for fighting a good fight

against creationism.

But I warned him.

Should we intervene somehow?

Absolutely.

I'll tell you what.

You come up with a
good plan, I'll be more

than happy to put it into play.

I am not squeamish at all
about being less than noble.

Good.

Let me wrap my brain
cells around this

and come up with a solution.

Deal.

Using that one job phrase--

I had one job as
a parent to raise

my offspring to love and
have faith in Jesus Christ,

and I fail miserably.

You know, my dad always
uses an expression that he

stole from Yogi Berra I think.

It ain't over until it's over.

You know what?

I keep telling him
the same thing.

Oh, when I hear the stories
of child trafficking

and-- and the
brutality of people,

I just want to cry out to
Jesus to come back right now.

But our son would
be lost if he did.

And so many of the
younger generations

are in the same situation.

I mean, it's like this epidemic.

I wonder if this is
the great falling away

that the Bible talks about.

Statistically, the
statistics are awful.

The young generation
is just not embracing

the faith of their parents.

Well, parents are
losing their faith also.

I mean, when I hear the story
in the Bible of, you raise up

your child in the way he should
go, and when he gets older,

he will not depart
from it, girl,

I just have to bite my tongue.

Yeah, but as far as I can
tell, we did everything right.

But the results are all wrong.

And I don't see any
evidence of that changing.

Listen, I'm sorry to be
fencing on you like this.

I mean, we're just--
we're at our wits end.

Our cup is overflowing
with frustration.

I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah, that would
be because of me.

I was a prodigal, and the
Lord reeled me back in.

He can do the same for Trey.

Well, we know he can.

The $64,000 question is,
will he before it's too late?

Well, I'm doing what I
can to make that happen.

And that's why we asked to
pray together with you guys.

So shall we get started?

Absolutely.

Lead on.

Wow, I can't believe
it's already been two weeks

since we started this routine.

I can already feel a big
difference in my body.

Well, the goal is
to not get you buff,

but spiritually enlightened.

Well, I told you, I wasn't
gonna be an easy mark.

Yeah, the problem
is, your confidence

is in your own intelligence.

What else do I have
to base anything on?

I mean, it would be stupid
to put my trust in ignorance.

It's like, if God
did create us, then

he obviously gave us brains.

And we're supposed to use
them just like the muscles

we're working out right now.

If you don't use
them, you lose them.

And didn't the Bible say
to be as wise as serpents?

And as harmless as doves.

But it also says to not lean
on your own understanding

and to put your trust in Him.

Well, do you?

I mean, do you just totally turn
your brain off and trust in God?

I'd be lying if I said I did.

And I don't do it all the time.

But I do know that when
I trust in the Lord,

it's the most important
thing that I could ever do.

Let me throw you a curveball.

There's a law in science
called biogenesis, right?

Yeah, life only
comes from life.

So in order for life to
begin, that law would have had

to been broken at some point.

Yeah, that's
called abiogenesis,

and it's probably
happened lots of times.

But if it can be broken, then
how can it be considered a law?

And where do the laws of
science come from anyway?

Do they not have
to have a lawmaker?

Aren't you just putting your
faith in scientists rather than

in your own brains to
realize that there are

questions that
science can't answer?

They have answers.

Yeah.

They throw spaghetti
against the wall,

and they hope it will stick.

Those answers don't cut it.

What I keep hearing for
arguments for evolution is,

this is how it
could have happened,

just wishful speculations.

Then why do so many
people not only embrace

evolution, but swear by it?

You want the truth?

I'm not sure you could
handle the truth.

I can handle anything
you throw my way.

So many people have
fallen into the subtle trap

that the devil has set for them.

And they don't have the brains
to realize they've been hacked.

Oh, come on, Jeweli.

Don't tell me you're gonna pin
the rap on the pointy-headed guy

with the red suit
and the pitchfork?

Prove to me the devil exists.

You got photographs, eyewitnesses?

You wouldn't
accept eyewitnesses.

You don't even consider
that evidence unless it's

favorable to your position.

I only believe what I can see.

Can you see the wind?

OK, I see what
you're doing here.

Let me amend my statement.

I only believe what my
five senses can detect.

So OK, I can't see the wind,
but I can detect the effects

of the wind, the
blowing of the leaves

and the the flowers waving.

So if you see branches
moving, you say the wind did it.

But if you see a rogue man
whose life is a mess who

has put his faith
in an invisible God,

you discount that as evidence.

You see, you
believe in the wind,

but you do not believe
in a redeemed man.

Well, I thought you said you
were throwing me a curveball.

It seems more like an
underhanded toss to me.

OK.

Well, try this on for size.

Where does love and
emotions come from?

Why do we appreciate beauty?

If we're just a bunch
of chemical reactions,

how is a human capable
of sacrificial love?

Love evolved to enable
the humans to propagate

and to ensure survival.

Yeah, give me a break.

Lust does that.

Love goes way beyond
hormonal expression.

You guys talk out both
sides of your mouth

and manage to say
nothing at all.

Well, gee, Jeweli, why don't
you tell me how you really feel?

Or are you just
demonstrating the emotions

that you want me to explain
in evolutionary terms?

You know what?

This isn't working.

I'm never gonna reach
you with my intellect

and rational arguments.

I found a quote that I think
has to do with this situation

from Leo Tolstoy.

Most men can seldom accept even
the simplest and most obvious

truth if it obliges them to
admit the falsity of conclusions

which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, which

they have proudly
taught to others, which

they have woven thread by thread
into the fabric of their lives.

And another from
Winston Churchill--

men occasionally stumble over
the truth, but most of them

pick themselves up and hurry
off as if nothing had happened.

Well, the truth
about God and evolution

is not the most obvious.

Otherwise, people wouldn't
have been fighting

about it over centuries.

But I hope you weren't
thinking you were gonna bowl

me over with your platitudes.

You're the guy
the Bible describes

as ever learning and
never able to come

to the knowledge of the truth.

God's just gonna have to zap you
with a bolt of the Holy Spirit.

Ooh, that sounds painful,
and I'm not too fond of pain.

Yeah, I can relate.

I don't like banging my
head up against a wall.

You know, it seems like we're
in a Mexican standoff here,

so unless you want to
accompany me to a place

where the Holy Spirit
is manifesting,

I think we're done here.

What, does he not
make house calls?

Trey, I don't
need to be right.

I just need you to know
that you are loved.

And yeah, he makes house calls.

But I think it would be
best if we go to a place

where the Holy Spirit is
moving in other people too.

I'm assuming you're
talking about a church.

Yeah, no, thanks.

So no more gym sessions?

At 6:00 AM, that is.

I suggest you continue your
workouts, just not with me.

Hey, good
morning, boss man.

What's so good about it?

Oh, bad day at
the gym, I take it.

Well, not for you.

You can just forget about
me being corrupted by Little

Miss Goody Two Shoes anymore.

Oh, so you told her where she
could put her religious shtick.

I like it.

No.

So then she told
you where you can put

your punctuated equilibrium?

No!

No, no, no, no.

We just mutually agreed,
we were butting heads,

and it was causing
us a headache.

Hey, hold all my calls.

Trey, we don't
have a switchboard,

and you have a cell phone.

Duh, Benji.

It was a joke.

I wasn't sure.

I thought maybe you were
too distraught that you were

losing your grip on reality.

Me?

Me, distraught?

Yeah.

No, no, no.

This just so complicates my life
so that I can go back to being

the carefree cabellero again.

All right.

Carefree caballero?

I don't know.

Wow, that's an
interesting development.

I never even got a chance to put
my fiendish plan into action.

Just what was your plot?

Confidential.

I may have to use
it on you one day.

OK, brother.

Great, now I got to
walk on eggshells

on both sides of the office.

Thanks, Tracy.

You're welcome.

I'm sorry, Sandy.

I can't-- I couldn't continue
the way it was going.

I'm just not that strong.

Oh, Jeweli, Jeweli, no,
don't-- don't worry about it.

You gave it your best shot.

And for that, we're
really appreciative.

I mean, listen, I'm sure it
had a positive effect on Trey.

You know, it's really ironic.

Some kids grow up never
hearing about Jesus,

and they find him and rejoice.

And then, other kids grow
up in Christian homes,

and they-- they just
walk away from the best

thing in their life.

Someday-- Jeweli, someday
they'll all find out.

I just hope it's not
the day that every knee

bows and every tongue
confess that Jesus is Lord.

I know.

Amen.

Well, will you continue
to pray for him?

Yeah, that I can and will do.

You are a peach.

OK, listen, I am planning
a trip to your fair city.

Now, I'm not sure that
Trey is going to see me,

but I feel compelled to try.

I sure would love to
meet you in person.

That would be wonderful.

Cool.
Cool.

All right, well, I'll
reach out then as

soon as my plans are finalized.

- Hey, Tracy.
- Hey.

Did you finish that edit?

I did.

You want to go
grab some coffee?

You buying?

Sure.

I never turn down free coffee.

So are you planning on telling
me what's eating at you,

or did I just come
here as eye candy?

I'm not sure.

I feel like I want to rant, but
I figure I'll regret it if I do.

Well, go ahead and
rant because if not,

you're gonna explode.

And I definitely don't
wanna see you on the news.

Maybe so.

Have you ever been
in love before?

Oh, whoa!

I did not see that coming.

I thought we were here to
discuss your secret issues

and not pour out mine.

Just humor me here.

I'm trying to get a
grasp on what love is.

OK.

I was in love once before--

when I was much younger though.

I mean, he was my everything,
was my rising star.

And then he broke my heart.

And I decided then that I
did not wanna take the risk

of that ever happening again.

Exactly.

I mean, I'm trying to figure
out how these crazy emotions fit

into the evolutionary pattern.

I mean, it seems to me
that they're a handicap.

Look at Mr. Spock on Star Trek.

His lack of emotions spared
him from all the other drama

that the other crew experienced.

As he would say,
emotions are illogical.

So why did we not evolve out of
emotions if we had them before

or not evolve 'em
in the first place?

Well, let me guess.

She posed the question about
where does love come from.

Ah, she slipped right
through your defense

of your scientific terms
when it comes to that, right?

Exactly.

Oh no.

What?

She's here.

Look, I'm no expert
at this, at all,

but I really think that you
need to talk with her directly

about this question
so you can get

this settled once and for all.

You know what?

Sit right here for me.

You wanted to see me?

No.

Yeah.

I don't know.

You're driving me crazy.

I'm driving you crazy?

I haven't even talked
to you in a few days.

You should be recovered
from the trauma

of interfacing with me by now.

Trauma?

If this is trauma,
chain me to a wall.

You know, maybe I
shouldn't tell you this,

but you really did rock my boat.

After I got into the car
after our mutual parting

of ways, this--

this song came on--

My World Is Empty
Without You, Babe.

And after a few almost
sleepless nights,

it dawned on me that I'm
missing something in my life.

It's not me.

It's not?

Are you sure?

Because no one's ever
done this to me before.

I've never met anyone like you.

You have taken me
way out of my box.

That's out?

Well, if you let me take you
to a worship service tonight,

you'll find that it's not
me you primarily long for.

That's an interesting
proposal, I guess.

You know, I did some research
on a couple of topics

in the field of evolution.

One was that question about
emotions that you raised.

And the other was the
metamorphosis of the caterpillar

into the butterfly.

Excellent example.

Could the master
storyteller be giving

us a glimpse of the future?

A poor, drab little creature,
forced to crawl upon the Earth,

build its own little
tomb, and then

rises up in beautiful colors to
flit and fly through the sky.

Well, that's-- that's
not entirely accurate,

since some caterpillars
are pretty colorful,

and some flying insects that use
cocoons are pretty drab, but.

And as I was thinking
about that, this--

this Robin Williams
movie came to mind.

I don't remember the name of
it, but he's grieving the murder

of his friend,
and this butterfly

starts flying around his face.

Patch Adams.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

So you think that
God created insects

to look like that to testify
to us of eternal life,

that we rise up out of our
graves and are set free?

It makes sense to me.

And nothing about that
process makes sense

in the light of evolution.

Well, again, I
should point out

that there are lots
of other insects

that use cocoons to
protect their larvae.

I don't think that
detracts from the butterfly's

message about eternal life.

You know, I told your
dad that I had no desire

to be in a place like Heaven.

I know.

Maybe that was a bit rash.

Maybe I want to be
like the butterfly.

But what I do know is, I'm not
ready to go back into a church.

Yeah.

Well, you're in luck.

The worship service
that I was talking about

takes place outside, and
it will be super informal.

Hmm.

I-- I guess I could handle that.

What time?

7:00.

Would you like me
to pick you up?

You're afraid I won't
show up on my own.

No, just afraid
that you'll get

lost on the way or something.

OK, pick me up at the studio.

All right, I'll be there at
6:30 with mosquito repellent.

But now I am found

Was blind

But now I see

Let's just close our eyes
and rid all of our distractions

from our minds.

I feel like God is
leading me to share

this message in this passage.

God is love.

And that loves is born
of God and knows God.

This next song was
not part of my list,

but I feel led to sing it.

O Lord my God

When I in awesome wonder

Consider all the worlds
thy hands have made

I see the stars

I hear the rolling thunder

Thy power throughout
the universe displayed

Then sings my soul,
My Savior God, to Thee

How great Thou art

Then sings my soul,
my Savior God, to Thee

How great Thou art

And when I think.

that God, his Son not sparing

Sent him to die

I scarce can take it in

That on the cross

My burden gladly bearing

He bled and died
to take away my sin

Hey, Mom, when you've
finished squeezing

the life out of Jeweli, can
have a moment alone with her?

Sure.

Well, you were right,
and you were wrong.

Excuse me?

I was needing someone else
in my life besides you, someone

that I once had
and let slip away.

But I guess my mind has
been renewed because I'm

seeing things so clearly now.

I was a sucker, led
down what seemed

to be a yellow brick road.

As the song goes, I was blind.

But now I see.

But even now, after
I've come to my senses

and let God penetrate
my armor again,

I still feel like
I'm in love with you.

I mean, after all, it was you
that made me believe that living

life forever wouldn't be
such a bad thing if I could

do it with someone like you.

I don't know what to say.

I don't know.

Bottom line, I'd like
permission to-- to date you.

Oh, wait, you don't date.

Permission to court you.

And if you want to spend all
of our time going to church,

it's fine with me.

You're right.

I think it's not a good
time to make decisions.

But I will ponder this request
in my heart and pray about it.

Fair enough.

Jeweli, give
me your answer due

I'm half crazy

All for the love of you.

Well, someone's awfully
chipper this morning.

Let me guess.

Date went well?

It wasn't a date.

She doesn't date.

But OK, it was a wonderful time.

And now, I have
some news that'll

probably not make you day.

Trey, why are you
wearing that shirt?

Please tell me--

I'm taking down all
my atheistic content.

All?

Well, I'll edit some of the
videos that present pure science

dealing with evolution,
but I'll point

out the flaws in my teaching.

Right, and who exactly is
going to watch that garbage?

What happened, Trey?

Look, I don't really have
the words to describe it, OK?

I renewed a vow that
I made when I was

knee high to Shaquille O'Neal.

It was like a--
it was like I got

zapped by a bolt of electricity
and-- and-- and a feeling

of liquid love being poured all
over my body at the same time.

Liquid love?

That sounds like lyrics
from a bad pop song.

I know, but it's just the
first thing that came to mind.

I-- I still can't wrap
my mind around it.

You do understand
our subscribers

are gonna be like rats
leaving a sinking ship?

Yeah, I know.

I'm probably gonna have to
start looking for a day job now.

Which really translates
to, Benjamin and Tracy,

you need to change your LinkedIn
profiles to, looking for a job.

Look, I'm sorry, I made a new
video explaining to everyone

and apologizing them
for leading them astray

and warning them not
to take the bait that

led me to the brink of hell.

I have to repair all the
damage that I've done, guys.

Wow, so you just
crossed over the river,

and there's no coming back.

Trey, you are intentionally
going from a hero to a zero.

Why are you throwing everything
away, for a woman, no less?

First of all, I didn't
do it for any woman!

I did it for the
creator of the universe.

I had an experience, Benji.

I felt God, and I can't deny it.

And a man with an experience
is never at the mercy of a man

with only an arguments.

So just like that,
bam, you're one of them.

Someday, maybe
you'll understand.

I've got enough severance
pay saved up for you guys

for maybe a couple of weeks.

I'm sorry.

It's the most I can do.

I appreciate it.

I'd give you a hug goodbye,
but I'm just not feeling it.

I understand, but I
would appreciate it if you

guys would watch my new video.

Yeah, there is no
chance of that happening.

Hey, Benji, this is for you.

Read it.

For the record, Trey, you're
still knee high to Shaq.

Seems I shouldn't
have convinced that babe

to clear the air with him.

You did what?

I thought you had a fiendish
plan to keep 'em apart.

Yeah, I did.

But something caused me to
go in a different direction.

I'll never understand this.

Yeah, well, that would
make two of us, Tracy!

I'm surrounded by
Benedict Arnolds.

Hey.

Can you share your
table with me?

Of course.

The good doctor, what an honor.

I watched your video.

Impressive, especially when you
described how a lamb can survive

the bite of a venomous snake.

And you compared the devil to
the snake and the lamb of God.

It was amazing.

I also noticed your
subscribers plummeted.

Yep.

Inevitable.

You know, your dad told me
that if I made any confessions

to even the possibility of
truth in design that I'd become

a traitor to many of my fans.

Well, it turns out he was right.

It's kind of painful to
read some of the comments.

And I let my landlord know that
I'll be vacating the studio

at the end of the month.

My income's gonna be
dropping exponentially.

You won't be able to gain
new subscribers and viewers?

Highly unlikely.

Speaking of my
dad, I talked to him

after I watched the video.

And he thinks you could make
some really great science

content for homeschoolers and
help him with his movie scripts.

And I don't know how
much money is in that,

but the opportunity is there.

Wow, I'm speechless.

What?

I was just wondering
how soon you'd

be ready to take me to church?

Really?

Yeah.

Well, today is Wednesday.

Does your church have
Wednesday evening services?

- We do.
- Are you available tonight?

I am.

Pick me up at 6:30?

Wild horses
couldn't keep me away.

Oh, I forgot.

My parents are in town.

Can I bring them along with me?

Yeah, parents,
not cool on a date,

but more than welcome
in a courtship.

Perfect.

Well, in the interim,
I'll give your dad a call

and see what kind of
havoc we can unleash

on the kingdom of darkness.

Lord,
we come before you

Seated humbly at your feet

May your glory fill this place

Come and fill us with
your love once again

Oh, Jesus, sweet Jesus

Come and fill us with your love

Master Savior, come and fill
us with your love once again

Lord, we kneel before you

We give our hearts too

We long for your embrace

Come and fill us with
your love once again

Oh, Jesus, sweet Jesus

Come and fill us with your love

Master, Savior, come and fill
us with your love once again

Lord, we call out to you

Rekindle our love for you

May your presence
fill this place

Come and fill us with
your love once again

Oh, Jesus, sweet Jesus

Come and fill us with your love

Master, Savior, come and fill
us with your love once again