All language subtitles for Law.and.Order.S14E04.Shrunk.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-playWEB_track3_[eng]

In the criminal justice system,

the people are represented

by two separate
yet equally important groups:

the police,
who investigate crime

and the district attorneys,
who prosecute the offenders.

These are their stories.

John?

Croissants from
La Bergamote.

Almond.

I'll be in the kitchen
making some coffee.

Who found her?

Margot, the lady
that works here,

found her DOA,
called it in.

You mean the maid?

Uptown folks call them
personal assistants.

Anyway, she's
pretty shook up.

We sat her down
in the living room.

Is she the owner?

Margot says
she never saw her before.

Place is owned
by John David Myers.

The song guy?

You can take a tour
of his Tonys in the den.

Well, do we know
who she is?

Carrie Gunderson,

if she belongs to the
pocketbook we found
in the front hall.

Half a dozen stab wounds,

defensive wounds
on her forearms and hands.

Did Margot say when
Myers'll be back?

Oh, he's here.
Upstairs bedroom.

You're going to love this.

Mr. Myers?

Mr. Myers?

This could run longer
than his last show.

Captioning sponsored by
UNIVERSAL NETWORK TELEVISION

NBC

he theater
last night.

A premier. Half Past Dawn.

He went with
Miss Gunderson?

He went alone.

He never mentioned her.

I never saw her before.

No offense, ma'am,
but this might go
a whole lot easier

if Mr. Myers answered
the questions.

John didn't kill that girl.

You were here?

No. But I've worked
for him for 12 years.

He's a good person--
a good,

sensitive,
caring person.

So you don't know.

I... met her at the show.

We went to... Joe Allen's
for the party after.

I never saw her before.

But you, uh,
got to know her pretty well?

We...

had too much to drink.

We... made love.

I fell asleep.

He has a lawyer.
I'm going to call.

Detective?

You should see this.

What are these,
props for Camelot?

They're real.

That one belonged
to General Custer.

This one was Aaron Burr's.

Mr. Myers is a collector.

Weird hobby.

John has a sense
of history.

Get them all down
to Forensics.

Lennie?

It looks like mud.

Was this here yesterday?

No. We worked here all day.

I would have noticed.

Besides, Sally was here.

She cleans every afternoon.

And is this always unlocked?

The alarm wasn't on
when I came in.

So, when Myers and
Ms. Gunderson get done
sweating up the sheets,

he passes out, she comes
downstairs for a nosh.

And shocks the hell
out of a burglar.

Why would a guy
with a crib like this

forget to turn on
the alarm?

I guess he had other
things on his mind.

After a fun night

of vodka and sex, she bled out
between 2:00 and 3:00 a.m.

There is some slight bruising
here on the outside of her hips.

Rape?
Nah, I doubt it.

The hip bruises may mean
that she was on top.

Go, Rodgers.

Eight stab wounds to
the chest and abdomen

makes me think this guy
was making a statement.

What, "Hi, I'm pissed off"?

No. One or two thrusts
is pissed off.

Eight without hesitation wounds
is uncontrollable rage.

Boy, John David Myers, huh?

In college, I played Maggie
in Out to Lunch.

I know where he got the title.

Uh, put it this way,
his piano stool's missing a leg.

Honestly, this dude
didn't look like

he had enough rage
to swat a fly.

Any of these do the deed?

No, as far as
I can tell, no.

None of the incisions match.

Forensics ran Luco
on the lot.

None of them had
any traces of blood.

Tell me again
why you don't want

to slap the chains
on Mack the Knife?

Well, the M.E. says the killer
was filled with rage.

This girl said yes--
that would make
most dudes happy.

Yeah, but not the guy
she said no to.

You're saying she was
someone else's target?

Whoever broke in
went through a lot of trouble

just to walk away
empty-handed.

He could have followed
her and Myers home.

All right, keep
someone on Myers

while you find out
what you can about the girl.

That was Gunderson?

Yeah. First name: Carrie.

Mm, sorry,
she's not here.

She could have been
somebody's guest,
though, right?

Sure.
Somebody like
John David Myers?

Leave it to John.

You know, I've
been sending him
these invites

for the past,
I don't know, three years.

Not even an RSVP.

My heart nearly stopped cold

when his assistant
called my assistant

and said that
he'd be coming.

What, he's not a
big party person?

You know the boat pond
in Central Park?

John went skinny-dipping
there once

with Miss October.
Nothing like
a midnight swim.

Only it was after lunch
at Sardi's.

John wasn't what you'd call shy.

And, then, just like
the Russian Tea Room, he's gone.

He doesn't answer calls.

He doesn't show his face
in public.

So no openings,
no parties.

The biggest shame of all is,

he hasn't written
a note of music.

This is Carrie Gunderson.

Was she with him at the party?

Sure, she was with him.

Not what he used to bring.

How so?

She kept him from taking
that last martini.

And she's not a regular
on the party circuit?

I never saw her before.

Oh, my God.

Was Carrie involved
with John David Myers?

In her dreams.

Did he do this to her?

Lisanne, the way this
works is, we get to
ask the questions.

I didn't know Carrie
all that well.

Oh, right-- she
just lived here.

I was looking
for a rent check,
not a best friend.

My last roomie moved to LA.

I met Carrie at an audition
six months ago.

She was an actress?

One of the great
unemployed.

She didn't seem like
Jennifer Jason Leigh

in that movie, so...
what the hell, you know?

Carrie went to the premiere
of a play, uh...

Half Past Dawn.

Yeah, I know. It was my ticket.

One of my regulars
gave it to me.

That's quite a tip.

Why'd you give the ticket
to Carrie?

Why not?
I hate musicals.

Carrie was crazy for them,

especially the ones
written by Connors and Rourke.

Let me ask
you this.

Carrie's boyfriend...
Who, Mark?

They broke up about
a month or so ago.

Some big passion play.

I didn't really want
to hear about it.

Am I supposed to be shocked?

No, not if you did it.

Believe me, I may have thought
about it more than once

but I haven't even seen her
in maybe three weeks.

Where were you
on Wednesday night?

In the back seat of a Lexus

on the way back
from Baltimore with two friends.

If you want their numbers...
Yeah, we do.

Hey, man, I ain't
the most sentimental
cat in the world,

but if somebody I was seeing

ended up getting stabbed
in the belly eight times,

I would at least want to know

the who, what and where
of it all.

That's because you
didn't know Carrie.

Look, I-I don't want
to sound like a jerk,

but that woman was
one royal pain.

Well, I'm a sucker
for juicy details.

Okay. I met her at the gym.

She's pretty hot,
and we start going out.

Look I'm just looking
for a good time, right?

After three or four
dates, she's rearranging
my furniture,

correcting my grammar.

I swear, every sentence
out of her mouth

started with
"You should have."

I told her we were done--
it turns into World War III.

Calls me prehistoric, a pig.

I've been there.

She threw a mirror at me,
split my lip open.

My neighbor called the cops.

We were both sentenced
to therapy.

Anger management,
to be exact.

What a joke that is.

You know her shrink's name?

I'm sure it's in
the court papers.

Nobody's minding the store?

Sounds like they're
in flagrante.

Might as well
get comfortable.

That could be Sybil
in there, by herself.

Excuse me.

Police.

I can see that.

I'm in session.

Yeah, this'll just
take a minute, Doc.

Uh, talk among
yourselves.

We need to make this quick.

Okay-- Carrie Gunderson.

As you can tell by the
empty chair in there,
she's not here.

That could be
because she's dead.

She was murdered
Wednesday night.

My God.

Who...

Well, that's
why we're here, Doc.

Did she mention anybody
in her life

who was giving her trouble?

Even if I could help you,
I couldn't.

I'm sure you know,
anything that anybody says

in that room is privileged.

You'd protect a guy
who stabbed your patient
eight times?

I have to go.

My ex made me
see a shrink.

Now, that was money
well spent.

Twice a week I'd
get on the couch

and tell him how the
head of the orphanage

used to get a kick out of
beating me with his shoe.

That sounds like
Oliver Twist.

It is.

Ed, there's one of them.

Excuse me, aren't you
in Carrie Gunderson's
therapy group?

You're the cops.

Dr. Cyrus told
us about Carrie--
it's unbelievable.

Did Carrie ever talk
about anybody that might
want to hurt her?

Not really.

Did she ever mention
having trouble with
a boyfriend?

She talked about the guy
she had the fight with.

Mark, I think it was.

Anybody else?

Well, there is this one guy
in the group-- James.

It's pretty obvious
he had a thing for her.

Was it reciprocal?

I doubt it.

Which one is James?

He hasn't been
here all week.

Maybe he's been cured.

I don't think so.

James had a court-ordered
twice a week for 12 months.

He assaulted his boss.

Stabbed him a few times
with a Sharpie.

I don't understand
what the hell I'm doing here!

My boss agreed
not to press any charges.

This isn't
about your boss.

You missed therapy
this week, Jim.

I'll pay the fine.

Funny guy.

Carrie Gunderson
missed it, too.

That's good.
Split us up.

The first one that cracks

gets a stay-out-of-group-
free card.

She's dead.

What?

That's right.

And since you had
the hots for her.

Who said that?

What you going
to do, James,

stab him eight
or nine times?

Hey, that thing
with my boss

got blown way out
of proportion.

I stuck him in the leg
with a sharpie.

No big deal.

If you stuck him
once, maybe.

You know what
this is?

I'm sure you'll tell me.

It's what's called
your "yellows."

It's like a "What you did to who
and what the cops did about it."

Listed here
are three assault complaints.

All those charges were dropped.

Yeah, they were, man.

But you got to understand
where we're coming from.

You crushing on Carrie,
she ends up dead.

Where were you
Wednesday night?

I went to a movie.

Let me guess-- alone.

That's right.

Come on, James.

A smart guy like you
can do better than that.

Started at 10:45
at the Clearview

in Chelsea.

Okay, okay.

There was this old guy
sitting next to me.

I talked to him.

He got a name?

He had a bag from Urban Angler,
a place on 26th Street.

I like to go out
for stripers.

So, while we're waiting
for the movie to begin,

I asked him what he bought.

He showed me
this new surf-casting reel,

a Shimano.

What the hell,

I've been fishing around
for a new hobby.

Shimano's top of the line.

We're lucky if we sell
one or two a week.

I'm surprised you sell
much of anything

in the middle
of Manhattan.

More fishermen
per square mile

than most places,
actually.

More people
per square mile, too.

You should try it.

It's good for the nerves.

It shows, huh?

This would have been
on Wednesday.

I did sell a Shimano
surf caster that night.

Customer's name
is Josiah Winthrop.

I can give you an address.

I bought that reel
for my brother.

Thing should last him
till he's 80.

How old is he now?

A kid-- 73.

Later that evening,
you went to the movies,
Mr. Winthrop?

Sure did.
Too hot to go home.

Don't got no
air conditioner.

Did you see this man
when you were there?

He play one
of the dead guys?

No, not in the movie.
In the theater.

Sitting next to you.

He said you two talked.

Yeah, yeah, fellow
sitting next to me.

That's right.

Did he stay
for the whole movie?

Yes, he did.

Showed him that reel
I bought for my brother.

Thing should last him
till he's 90.

That reel's getting better
all the time.

It's our boy Beck.

Thanks.

The devil is in
the details, gentlemen.

I'm guessing
that's a good thing.

Uh, the shoe print itself
was too smudged

to be able to match it
to any particular shoe,

but I did an analysis
of the residue itself.

It's soil.

Dirt. Go figure.

No, listen carefully.

I said soil.

New York City dirt
would have particles of asphalt

and glass and concrete,

but this is 100% organic.

You mean like
potting soil?

Now you're talking.

Unless somebody walked in
straight from the greenhouse,

my guess is, it came
from one of the houseplants.

Thanks.

How many times
do I have to tell
you this?

Hey, don't get smart.

Why don't you tell us
about the dirt on the carpet

in the den?

What do you want
to know?

How it got there
would be nice.

I'm sure the killer
must have come in

through the terrace door.

And stepped right
into a flowerpot?

Those smudges came
from a houseplant.

Your boss is pretty sharp,
Margo.

First he kills the girl,
then he stages

both the break-in
and the cuckoo act.

Impossible.

The only other
alternative is,
it was you.

You know,
I got to tell you, Margo.

I'm looking at your face

and I can see that
you're neck-deep in this.

I didn't kill her.

If you're holding
something back,

that makes you an accessory.

John's not well.

I'm sure he had
no idea what he was doing.

He knew enough to send us out
chasing our tails.

Working for John

is my life.

12 years, 8:00 in the morning
till 8:00 at night.

His success is my success.

His welfare is my welfare.

I'm the one who...

After I found the girl
in the kitchen,

I ran upstairs.

John was crying.
He couldn't talk.

I knew what everyone
would think.

So, I went back downstairs...

and I tried to make it look
like someone broke in.

Where's the knife?

I wrapped it in newspaper
and hid it in the basement.

Tough day at the office?

I didn't think
it would hurt anything.

What do you think
you're doing?

Who are you?

I'm his doctor.
Shrink.

What's this,
swing therapy?

John David Myers,
you're under arrest

for the murder
of Carrie Gunderson.

You have the right
to remain silent.

Frederick.

Anything you say
can be used against you

Frederick!
in a court of law.

You have the right
to an attorney.

Frederick!

I'll be right
there, John.

Help me!

Talk to us,
Mr. Myers.

Where's Frederick?

Something about an HMO.

I want him here.

Help us out.

We'll see what we can do.

What?

I think he's singing.

♪ Like a diamond in the sky ♪

This dude is starting
to piss me off.

♪ Twinkle, twinkle,
little star ♪

♪ How I wonder
where you are... ♪

I'm telling you,
he's too ill for this.

He wasn't too ill
to go to a show, a party,

pick up a woman
and kill her.

That's assuming
a lot.

When the shoe fits.

I see. Mm-hmm.

A celebrity notch on your belt

puts another star
on your collar.

You're not scoring any points
here.

He couldn't
kill anyone.

John has been under
my care for three years.

He improved to the point

where I thought
it would do him good

to attend a social function.

Looks like that was
a bad decision.

He was actually
improving.

He was starting
to compose again.

Frankly, he's regressed
to a point

where I don't know

if I can
help him now.

No offense,
but that's no longer an option.

You won't let me
talk to my patient?

Your patient

is a murder suspect now.

I'm a doctor.

This is a medical situation.

The man looks fine
to me.

I demand to see him!

Until you have more stars
on your collar

than I do, Doctor,
you can't demand a damn thing.

Frederick told me to sing
whenever I was scared.

He tell you to whistle
when you stabbed naked girls?

Where is he?

I need him here.

Like I said,

talk to us.

We'll see what we can do.

Promise?

Cross my heart.

I killed her.

I stabbed her and stabbed her
and she was dead.

Well, now can I see Frederick?

Docket number 323430.

People v. John David Myers.

Murder in the Second Degree.

I was a huge fan, Mr. Myers.

My client appreciates
that, Judge.

I said was. How does he plead?

Not Guilty, Your Honor.

I assume your client can make
substantial bail, Ms. Cutler.

We're not consenting to bail,
Judge.

The People request remand.

His face is recognized
all over the world.

Where's he gonna go?

Your Honor, if I may...

And you are?

Mr. Myers' psychiatrist.

How about that?

My grandson's pediatrician
won't even make a house call.

Mr. Myers is heavily medicated.
He can't function.

He confessed
to brutally

slaughtering a woman
he'd just met.

He's been under my daily
care for three years.

I wouldn't really brag
about that, Doctor.

Your Honor...
Sit!

I'm remanding the defendant,

ordering observation
at Bellevue.

Cole Porter's lucky
he's gone,

what with the dearth
of respect

you people show men
of the theater.

Cole Porter didn't have a dead
woman in his townhouse, Lisa.

John Myers? Please.

He's as likely to have
killed somebody as...

Sweeney Todd?

Very clever.

Excuse me,
but this is outrageous.

My patient is locked
in a state institution,

and you people are sitting here

like it's
the Algonquian roundtable.

You're a guest, Dr. Barrett.

Please try to control yourself.

I know John.

I know how ill he is.
I know that

it's beyond
his capability to kill anyone.

But not to confess to a murder.

He was scared.

He was confused.

And he was the only one
in the house.

Not quite.

Come on, Lisa.

You can't go
with the break-in theory.

Myers' assistant already said
that she staged it.

What is it your DA say?

Just because Mark Furman
may have planted the glove

doesn't make OJ innocent.

Cute but not applicable.

Try the opposite on for size.

And before you get
all hot and bothered

over the alleged confession...

Myers signed a Miranda waiver.

Would've been good
if the police

had read it before they
put it in front of him.

Mr. Myers asked to speak
to Dr. Barrett

before he
said a word.

He's a lawyer, too?

Oh, Jack, you've always
been so literal.

See you in chambers.

You're claiming that Mr. Myers
was entitled to legal advice

from his psychiatrist during
the police interrogation?

He unequivocally asked
Detectives Briscoe and Green

for an opportunity to speak
to Dr. Barrett

while he was in police custody,

before he made any
incriminating statements.

We don't dispute that,

but there's no Sixth Amendment
right to a medical professional.

The Sixth Amendment
is far less rigid

than Mr. McCoy would
have us believe.

For instance,
an indigent defendant

is entitled
to a court-appointed lawyer

even though it appears
nowhere in the text.

But the Constitution
clearly says "lawyer."

Actually, it says "counsel."

On the face of it,
that means

advice from
someone he trusts.

In People v. Crimmins,
the court makes no distinction

between members of the bar
and laymen.

The critical factor

is the nature
of the advice being sought,

not the certificate
on the wall.

Under Ms. Cutler's analysis,

if the defendant asked
for a plumber

during his interrogation,

the police would have
to honor that request?

No, but if he
asked to speak

to a specific person
who happened to be his plumber,

that would be a whole
different matter.

Nice try, Counsel.

Your Honor,
when the police

first spoke to Mr. Myers,

they were informed
he was represented by counsel.

An affidavit by Margot Dalton--

Mr. Myers'
personal assistant--

in which she said
she told the police,

and I quote,

"He has a lawyer."

It's well-settled that once
the police are informed

that a defendant is represented
by counsel...

Informed by the defendant,
not a third party.

As you'll see in paragraph six,

the defendant
didn't say anything.

The defendant couldn't
say anything.

He was in shock.

The only person who could
speak for him spoke,

and it was ignored.

Ms. Cutler should have put this
argument into her motion papers.

Would you have changed
your approach if she had?

The confession is out.

The old check and raise.

She set you up with the jab and
knocked you out with the cross.

Let's see just how many
metaphors we can mix.

Well, I've got
a ton of them,

and if this Myers guy walks,

you're going to hear
each and every one.

Without a confession...

He was the only one
in the house, Serena.

With no apparent motive.

Margot Dalton led us
to the murder weapon.

Her prints were on it.

Do you really think Margot
murdered Carrie Gunderson?

Of course not. I'm just giving
a preview of Cutler's case.

Right,
the butler did it.

The personal assistant.

Whatever she is, I'd inform her

she's about to become
the number one scapegoat.

That might help
refresh her memory.

John was more than a boss.

Are you saying...

He was a friend.

I did more than
just paperwork.

I talked to him,
comforted him.

I gave him a shoulder
to cry on.

So do you have any idea
why he killed Carrie?

Of course not.

And I hate to going
there, Margot,

but there are two choices.

Either Myers...

Me? You think I killed her?

Lisa Cutler is fighting
for Myers' life.

She's known me for years.

She knows I wouldn't
kill anyone.

But you're not
paying her fees.

A lot of fingers get pointed
in a murder trial.

You've already admitted
to tampering with evidence,

staging a break-in...
That's right.

To protect John.

I am just warning you how
it's going to happen, Margot.

If there's anything that
you're not telling us...

When I first started
working for John...

he was drinking a lot...

doing a lot of drugs,
doing crazy things

Like?

Fights in
clubs, girls--

there were so many.

One morning I came in,

and there was a naked girl
in the closet.

John was standing
at the door screaming

Do you remember her name?

That's when I made him
start seeing Dr. Barrett.

Well, I'm not at liberty
to talk about this.

Let me tell you a story
about two wealthy brothers

out in L.A.

One of them told
his psychiatrist

he planned on
killing his parents.

You'll never guess
what the court said.

John didn't even know Carrie
Gunderson until that night.

How could he have
told me anything?

If it'd happened before.

It didn't.

Well, I have a feeling
that his other "girlfriends"

were luckier than Carrie
or at least quicker.

That's ridiculous.

If it comes out in trial that
you could have prevented this,

we won't hesitate to charge you.

John's mother...
put it this way:

she had a temper.

She beat John?

Psychologically.

One day, when John was 13,

he came home and found her
standing over his father

with a knife in her hand.

She stabbed him a dozen times
in the chest.

John saw the last five.

His mother is
still in Oakwood.

It's a
private hospital

in Maine.

John had fantasies
about stabbing women.

He should have gone
to the police.

Well, they're
fantasies, Jack.

He never thought Myers
would actually stab anyone.

No, he'd just chase
a woman into a closet.

Myers told Barrett
he showed her a knife,

and she freaked out.

Barrett told you all this?

Gift horse.

How dare you talk
to my client's doctor

without talking to me first!

It doesn't feel right being
sucker punched, does it, Lisa?

Damn it, Jack,
it's the same thing at all.

There's a little something
called privilege.

Explain that
to your client's doctor.

A psychiatrist is obligated to
disclose future criminal acts.

You've got Myers locked up in
a nuthouse, for crying out loud.

Who's he going to kill?

That's not the point.

I'm going to move to exclude
everything Barrett told you.

And you'll lose.

You want to push
the envelope? Fine.

My notice to change Myers' plea

to Not Responsible by Reason
of Mental Defect.

I was a drunk.

I was a coke addict.

I abused myself
and everybody around me.

And Dr. Barrett helped you?

Saved my life.

200 milligrams

of Thorazine daily.

That's not living,
that's barely existing.

Well, it's better
than the alternative.

Which is?

But you made it to the top
of your chosen profession

in spite of everything.

Big deal. Who cares?

Did your mother?

My mother has nothing
to do with this.

I know what she did, John.

Six Tonys, two Pulitzers,

and a mom will kill my
Dad--that's...

that's some resume.

They let my mom go
to my dad's funeral.

She had chains on her wrists

and she turns to me
and she says...

"That's the last ball game
he'll ever watch."

My mother was a pig.

Did Carrie remind you
of your mom?

Carrie was a pig.

Is that why you killed her?

John?

Where's Frederick?

He'll be here later.

Tell me why you stabbed
Carrie Gunderson.

Because...

And I cried afterward.

Frederick knows.

No, he didn't hear voices
or black out.

He remembers exactly
what happened,

and he feels terrible
about it.

Well, lunch is on me.

So why?

Wrong time, wrong place,
wrong two people.

We're not going
to turn this

into blaming the
victim, are we?

Think back to physics:

Every action has an equal
and opposite reaction.

From what I can gather
from the police reports,

Carrie Gunderson
was an intolerant,

controlling personality,

especially where men
were concerned.

Yeah, he insisted
her old boyfriend

buy new sheets
after two dates.

Exactly. She demanded
that the world

be seen through her
particular window.

And Myers didn't
like the view.

Most men wouldn't.

The male of the species
tends not to care

whether he drinks his beer
out of a glass or a can.

Oh, come on.

Okay, all right,
that's a trivial example,

but you got to admit
the American male has been...

If you say castrated,
I'm leaving.

Case in point.

Male opinions
can't be expressed.

Their visceral behavior
is no longer tolerated.

Don't look at me.

Look around you, Serena.

Society is telling men

that they're in desperate need
of remedy.

I'm sorry, are you're saying

that this was one small stab
for man,

one giant slice for mankind?

That is absurd.

What I'm really am saying is

that it was a giant stab
for Myers.

He called Carrie Gunderson
a pig.

He also called dear old mom
a pig.

And it was really the latter
he wanted

on the end of his knife?

I arrived at John's townhouse

like I did every
morning, around 8:00.

When I walked
into the kitchen,

that's when I
saw her... the
girl who...

I saw one of the knives
from John's collection

on the floor

next to her body.

What did you do?

It was obvious she was dead,
so I went to find John.

Because you thought
he might be injured, too?

Well... no.

What did you think,
Ms. Dalton?

That John might

be responsible
for what happened.

Why was that?

John was obsessed
with knives.

What do you mean,
"obsessed"?

When I first started
working for him,

he'd always have one
in his belt.

He was drinking a lot then.

He got-- I don't know-- raucous.

It scared me.

I told him either he
locked the knives up

or I'd quit.

That's when he bought
the display case.

Did you ever see Mr. Myers
attack someone with a knife?

No.

But you told
ADA Southerlyn...?

I saw him

outside a closet door.

There was a woman inside.

And he was
threatening her?

He was screaming.

What was her name?

I don't remember.

Do you remember
what he was screaming?

Something about his mother.

So, he thought
the woman

inside the closet

was his mother?

Objection. The witness
has no way to know...

Withdrawn.

In the 12 years
that you worked
for Mr. Myers,

did he ever visit
his mother?

John told me
his mother was dead.

Then it would surprise you
to learn

that his mother is in a secure
psychiatric facility in Maine?

Oh, my God.

Did Carrie Gunderson

look like
the defendant's mother?

No.

Did she sound
like her?

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is
that the victim's

dominating personality
reminded him of his mother.

Did he tell you
that when he stabbed Carrie,

he thought he was
stabbing his mom?

No, he did not.

Is there any chance

that he thought
he was stabbing her?

I doubt it.
He felt remorse

for killing Carrie Gunderson.

If he'd thought
it was his mother,

he would have experienced
nothing but relief.

Dr. Skoda,
I'm confused.

Mr. Myers is in his 50s.

I assume he's met
dominating women before this.

As far as I'm aware,
he's never stabbed any of them.

That's probably because his
rage was masked by medication.

Mr. Myers told me
his psychiatrist

had started to wean him
off the Thorazine

prior to the murder.

You don't sound
as if you approve, Doctor.

Thorazine is
usually prescribed

to schizophrenics.

The defendant is disturbed,
he's angry,

but he's not schizophrenic.

Personally,
I would have attacked

the cause of his rage
instead of trying to
mask the symptoms.

And he's felt this rage
ever since

his mother did
her magic?

That's right.

Doctor, are you aware
of schizophrenic episodes

occurring for the first time
in patients of Mr. Myers' age?

Yes. But that's
not the case here.

Really?
Dr. Barrett

had only been treating him
for three years.

That's 47 years of walking
around the streets angry

without killing
anybody.

Mr. Myers
self-medicated

with alcohol, with cocaine...

The point is, when he
stabbed Carrie Gunderson,

he knew exactly
what he was doing.

He knew that it was wrong,

and he did
it, anyway.

In your opinion?

Yes.

And you saw him
for how long?

Three hours.

That's right.
Five times a week.

When necessary, more than that.

How many hours a day?

Two, sometimes three.

Is that typical,
Doctor?

For someone in John's
condition, yes.

What condition is that?

He was delusional.

He heard voices.

His mother's, specifically.

He carried knives as
a means of protection.

So, what you're saying is

that Mr. Myers thought
his mother would kill him,

just like she'd killed his dad?

That's right.

He was barely a teenager
when he experienced

one of the most
traumatic events
imaginable.

I see.
Is it true

that you'd begun
to reduce his medication?

Yes. I'd been
slowly reducing

his dosage over the prior year.

We'd made progress
in our therapy.

John wanted to
start writing again.

He was actually able
to sit at the piano for
several hours a day.

And he'd stopped hearing
the voice in his head?

No, he still heard it,

but he realized
it couldn't harm him.

What happened the night
he killed Carrie Gunderson?

The play...

the party, the public...

he was over-stimulated.

It destroyed
everything

we accomplished
in therapy.

So, once again,
he was scared
of Mom's voice?

Yes.

Why do you think

he didn't tell that
to Dr. Skoda?

John is a very
intelligent,

creative man.

He's embarrassed by his illness.

He has manufactured
many defense mechanisms,

the primary of
which is lying.

So, he'd rather go to prison
than be humiliated?

Please don't
trivialize this,
Mr. McCoy.

The man witnessed
his mother kill his father.

This is not something
that's easy to live with,
let alone talk about.

I apologize.

Did you know he was going to go
to the theater that night?

Yes. He begged
me to let him go.

He wanted to see old friends.

I didn't think it would do
any harm.

I guess
you were wrong.

Yes, I was.

But I insisted
that he not go
to the party.

Because of
the over-stimulation?

That's correct.

The last thing he needed
was to drink martinis

with an emotionally
unstable actress

who would only demand things
of him

that he
couldn't
deliver.

Like sex?

John is a world-famous
theatrical composer.

She was... a wannabe star.

You do the math.

I did, and...

That's all.

We'll resume tomorrow, 9:30.

Barrett said that
Carrie Gunderson

was an "emotionally
unstable" actress.

So?

So, nowhere in our
file do the words

"emotionally
unstable" appear.

Maybe he figured
birds of a feather...

Or maybe Myers
mentioned her in
one of his sessions.

You think Myers knew Carrie
before the party?

Find out.

Believe me,

if Carrie had ever met
John David Myers,

she would have told me about it.

Why?
She wasn't discreet?

Look, we're actresses.

If she and Myers were an item,

she would have called
Page Six herself.

I already told all
this to the cops.

Why push the
replay button?

You're right.
It's a long shot.

Is there any chance at all
that she mentioned

a Dr. Barrett,
Frederick Barrett?

Doesn't sound familiar.

But then again,
she didn't introduce me

to every guy
she spent time with.

This is Myers's shrink?

You recognize him?

He's the customer who gave me
the ticket to the theater--

the one I gave Carrie
the night she was killed.

Do you know if she ever saw
a psychiatrist?

She gave me one of her sleeping
pills every now and then.

Is there
any chance at all

you remember
where she kept the bottle?

I know she saw
Dr. Barrett,

because he prescribed
sleeping pills to her.

Then what do you need me for?

It's a long story.

So is the case law
on doctor-patient privilege.

Yes, it is. But not when
a third party overhears it.

Carrie spoke to you in
front of six other people.

Who were also patients.

That's how
group therapy works.

Carrie's therapy was
court ordered, wasn't it?

That's the way
it usually works
with anger management.

Well, that means
that you are required

to file a report
with a judge,

and that means that Carrie
implicitly waived privilege.

This may have
something to do

with Carrie's
murder, Dr. Cyrus.

Okay.

Carrie had been sleeping
with her psychoanalyst.

He broke it off.

She was planning
to sue him for malpractice.

So, you've finally seen

the light, Jack.

Yes, I have.

Glad to hear it.

Want to make
us an offer?

Why, Lisa?
I think I'm winning.

Yeah, right.

So, why aren't
we in court?

Dr. Barrett knows.

It's what I've
been saying
all along.

John needs treatment,
not a jail cell.

The only issue is,
who will treat him?

He's not going back
to that state hospital.

I won't allow it.

Frederick's my doctor.

I think Dr. Barrett might
be otherwise occupied.

Frederick...

Don't worry, John.

They're just playing
their games again.

Well, can I play, too?

Do you know "Follow the Leader"?

Or perhaps "Simon Says"
is more appropriate.

After all,
that's Dr. Barrett's specialty.

What the hell
is that supposed to mean?

You say it, Mr.
Myers does it.

Are you saying
he put my client up to this?

Did you know Carrie Gunderson
was Dr. Barrett's patient?

And that they
were lovers?

Frederick didn't tell me
to do anything.

He didn't have to,
Mr. Myers.

He knew
your psychological makeup,

he knew Carrie Gunderson's.

All he had to do

was put
two damaged people

in the same test tube,
stand back

and watch the explosion.

If real people
were only that predictable...

Or maybe he just told you

that Carrie was going
to ruin his career.

Either way,

John's not responsible
for what happened.

I'm willing to put

a psychiatric commitment
on the table,

if he gives us
the details.

No jail time?

How about it, Mr. Myers?

Frederick helps me.

The man so concerned
about your mental health

is ready, willing and able
to let you rot in prison.

You know that's
not true, John.

I killed Carrie.

I stabbed her.

Because he wanted you to.
He manipulated you.

That's
ridiculous.

You have nothing
to support that.

You've got to help
yourself here, John.

You've got to tell Mr. McCoy
how this happened,

and you've got to tell him now.

It's that or Man One,
Mr. Myers.

He used you.

He's my doctor.

Very good, John.

What does that mean--
Man One?

15 to life.

He doesn't
deserve that.

Because he's sick?

That's right.

Doctor, heal thyself.

Whatever you think,

I was not responsible
for this.

I'm a doctor.

I do what I can
to cure the ill.

I can't save
every patient.

Mea culpa,
I failed with John.

Don't beat
yourself
up, Doctor.

Ossining has a way
of working wonders

with people like Mr. Myers.

What's that
supposed to mean?

A month, six
months, a year...

before you know it,

he'll be as good
as new, talking.

Like a teenager
with her first phone.

Going down.

Captioning sponsored by
UNIVERSAL NETWORK TELEVISION

NBC

Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org