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Mom?
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Forensics experts
are into their third day
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of combing the house,
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00:00:09,953 --> 00:00:11,874
searching for clues to the identity
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of the person or persons
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responsible for the deaths
of Mary Lou Barnes...
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These are two people
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minding their own
business that are dead!
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What the hell happened here?
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Who the hell are you?
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00:00:23,708 --> 00:00:25,499
Maybe you didn't mean to hurt her.
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Maybe you wait until
little Larry goes to bed.
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Mom?
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I've got two deceased persons.
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And I'm challenging you.
Make no mistake about it,
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I'm going to challenge you!
And I'm not done with you!
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Can you think of any reason
he might want to harm them?
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Ray just kept staring at her.
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- I'd do anything for her.
- How far would that go?
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As far as it takes.
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Well, let's bring him in,
see what he has to say now.
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I had a job to do.
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I'd stay focused. I had
to stick with the facts.
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I went into pit bull mode,
and I went after him.
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I got high. I got crazy.
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A couple of people
got what they deserved.
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By far, the worst thing
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anyone can ever remember happening
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in this tight community.
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To the person or persons
that have done this
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or anyone that knows anything,
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please, I just wish you'd come forward.
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Please help us on this.
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- Synced and corrected by Firefly -
- www.addic7ed.com -
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_
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British Settlement
is a bedroom community
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outside the city of Moncton,
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and there had never been a homicide
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committed in that area until 1995.
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I don't ever forget this.
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I'd just got in the office,
and the phone rings.
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"It's a homicide, Gerry.
You need to go right away".
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So, picked up my stuff, and away I went.
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00:02:03,312 --> 00:02:06,581
When I learned that there
was a young boy and a mother,
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I said: "Okay, this is
gonna be a long day".
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That's the first thing
that went through my mind.
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And I remember, I said:
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"You know what? This
is gonna be a long day".
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Hey, Ian!
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We got a bad one today.
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Yeah. They're inside, both of them.
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Mary Lou Barnes and her son, Larry Jr.
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Kid's only 12.
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What happened to you?
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Larry Sr., kid's father,
he drove by, saw the cars,
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tried to get through to the trailer
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before anyone could
tell him what happened.
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Got a little agitated.
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You okay?
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Yeah, I'm fine.
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Larry, the ex-husband, wanted to get in
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and he wanted to see what was going on.
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And we just wouldn't allow it.
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And so, he became aggressive,
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got upset, punched the police officer,
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ended up being arrested,
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being taken away from the crime scene
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and was later released.
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Who called this in?
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Debbie Ward, Mary Lou's sister.
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When Mary Lou didn't show
up to work this morning,
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Debbie came over.
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That's when she found them.
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You clear the scene?
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Ident's just getting set up.
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00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:20,786
All right, I'm gonna take a look.
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You stay here.
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No one gets past that tape
unless they go through me.
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Yes, sir!
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Larry Mills was physically aggressive.
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He assaulted a police officer.
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And he was dominant.
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He wanted to control the entire scene
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and the entire area.
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So, Larry was very,
very interesting to me,
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right from the get-go.
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Very interesting to me from the get-go.
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I opened the door, and as I walk in,
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the first thing I see,
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there's lunch money on the counter...
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the coffee pot is ready to go.
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There was coffee in it.
The water was ready to go.
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00:04:05,069 --> 00:04:07,109
All you had to do was hit the switch.
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00:04:10,237 --> 00:04:14,240
And off to my left, there was
a young child, a young boy,
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on the living-room floor.
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00:04:16,175 --> 00:04:18,777
And that was the deceased boy.
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The child was lying on his stomach.
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He was tied off with nylons.
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The body was twisted a bit.
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00:04:32,425 --> 00:04:36,027
And it was obvious the
child had been strangled.
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00:04:58,218 --> 00:05:00,685
So, I walk into the boy's room.
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00:05:01,637 --> 00:05:03,961
There doesn't appear to be any scuffle.
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Everything's nice and neat and tidy.
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Why did the boy come out of the room?
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What instigated him to
come out of the room?
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00:05:21,174 --> 00:05:22,999
Mom?
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Did he hear yelling? Did he hear noise?
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Did he hear his mom
screaming? Was there a fight?
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00:05:28,982 --> 00:05:33,152
Something brought that
boy out of his bedroom.
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And as I walk from the bedroom
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00:05:39,667 --> 00:05:41,608
and I come into the
hallway and the kitchen,
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00:05:41,609 --> 00:05:44,463
and I imagine what he's seen...
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00:05:59,946 --> 00:06:03,015
And as I get into Mary Lou's bedroom,
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I see there was definitely signs
of a struggle or of a fight.
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Mary Lou was lying face down on the bed.
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There was some blunt-force
trauma to her body.
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And she had been strangled
and tied off with nylons,
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and aggressively tied off.
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And that knot was so tight,
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there had to have been
skin DNA, skin cells,
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blood residue from the
victim and/or the perpetrator.
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Valuable, valuable information there
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that would be extremely important
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to investigators down the road.
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For me, it looked like
a crime of passion,
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where somebody was really,
really upset with Mary Lou.
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00:07:01,942 --> 00:07:04,320
It's unfortunate, but
Larry Jr. was just a kid,
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00:07:04,321 --> 00:07:06,178
just an 11-year-old boy.
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00:07:06,179 --> 00:07:08,225
And it's very, very possible
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that the perpetrator
knew that he was a witness
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and had no choice but to kill him.
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00:07:14,287 --> 00:07:17,356
I had an 11-year-old
boy at home already.
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00:07:19,493 --> 00:07:22,428
And I had a newborn
that was 5 months old.
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00:07:22,429 --> 00:07:24,336
So there's a bunch of mixed emotions
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00:07:24,337 --> 00:07:25,570
going through your head.
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00:07:28,702 --> 00:07:30,970
There's a 39-year-old mother
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taking care of her 11-year-old son,
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minding their own business,
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working hard, making ends meet.
140
00:07:38,244 --> 00:07:40,779
Like, what the hell happened here?
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00:07:56,062 --> 00:07:58,597
You see the pantyhose in there?
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00:07:58,598 --> 00:07:59,622
Yeah.
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00:07:59,623 --> 00:08:01,365
I want to make sure that
stays out of the papers.
144
00:08:01,366 --> 00:08:02,833
We gotta keep it quiet.
145
00:08:03,537 --> 00:08:04,804
Sure.
146
00:08:04,805 --> 00:08:07,338
Where did you say, uh, Debbie Ward was?
147
00:08:09,142 --> 00:08:10,810
Okay, thanks, man.
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00:08:10,811 --> 00:08:13,867
Debbie Ward is the
half-sister of the victim.
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She's the one that had
received the phone call
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because Mary Lou had
not shown up for work.
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00:08:19,152 --> 00:08:20,418
Mrs. Ward...
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I'm, uh, I'm so sorry for your loss.
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She was a good person.
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A great mom and...
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And Larry Jr. was just this amazing kid.
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When was the last time you spoke to her?
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Um, last night...
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... around, uh, around 9:00.
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When you spoke to her...
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did she mention if she had
plans later or was seeing anyone,
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00:08:55,789 --> 00:08:57,055
anything like that?
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00:08:58,099 --> 00:09:02,792
Her... her ex, Larry Sr.,
came by to drop off Larry Jr.
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00:09:02,793 --> 00:09:04,593
But that's it.
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00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,558
What was their relationship like,
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00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:08,782
her and her ex?
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00:09:08,783 --> 00:09:12,060
They were trying to be
good parents to Larry Jr.
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00:09:12,061 --> 00:09:14,685
They, uh, they went
through a lot, you know.
168
00:09:14,686 --> 00:09:18,145
They lost two babies that didn't
live long after they were born.
169
00:09:18,146 --> 00:09:20,730
It was really hard on them.
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00:09:20,731 --> 00:09:22,264
Why did they split up?
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00:09:23,391 --> 00:09:26,750
He was cheating on her
with, uh, Cathy Cole.
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They live together now.
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She runs that house
for, um, special care,
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00:09:32,712 --> 00:09:36,047
you know, uh, people
with mental illness.
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00:09:38,498 --> 00:09:39,898
Do you think that...
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00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:44,235
do you think Larry would
ever... ever hurt Mary Lou?
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They had their problems.
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You know, they would argue a lot,
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00:09:52,178 --> 00:09:53,779
and... and Larry Sr. could be loud.
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He had a temper,
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00:09:55,849 --> 00:09:58,783
but she wasn't scared of him.
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As a matter of fact,
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Debbie said he never, never
slapped or beat his wife
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or never hurt his son.
185
00:10:06,126 --> 00:10:07,392
Thank you.
186
00:10:07,393 --> 00:10:10,529
But that doesn't mean that human beings
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00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:11,932
can't do those things.
188
00:10:11,933 --> 00:10:14,424
And so, in my mind, I just deleted that.
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00:10:14,425 --> 00:10:15,651
That meant nothing to me,
190
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just because Debbie had an
impression or perspective on it.
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00:10:18,878 --> 00:10:21,645
Nice to know, but not
good enough for me.
192
00:10:23,050 --> 00:10:24,541
Did you get anything from Mills?
193
00:10:24,542 --> 00:10:25,964
He seemed pretty torn up.
194
00:10:25,965 --> 00:10:27,156
They called Larry Jr. "Rare"
195
00:10:27,157 --> 00:10:28,814
because of the other kids.
196
00:10:28,815 --> 00:10:30,015
They think he's a miracle.
197
00:10:30,016 --> 00:10:32,684
Did he confirm that
he dropped Larry Jr.?
198
00:10:32,685 --> 00:10:35,821
Yeah, except he didn't
see or talk to Mary Lou.
199
00:10:35,822 --> 00:10:37,981
He just dropped him off
and watched him go inside.
200
00:10:37,982 --> 00:10:41,006
Apparently, him and Mary Lou
have been arguing a lot lately.
201
00:10:41,007 --> 00:10:43,499
Mills didn't want to stir the pot.
202
00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:46,026
"Arguing a lot lately".
203
00:10:46,027 --> 00:10:47,317
Yeah.
204
00:10:47,318 --> 00:10:49,835
I said: "There's our
number one right there
205
00:10:49,836 --> 00:10:50,970
we need to look at".
206
00:10:50,971 --> 00:10:52,237
That's a no-brainer.
207
00:10:52,238 --> 00:10:54,198
I said: "We need to look at him".
208
00:10:54,914 --> 00:10:56,804
So we honed in on him first.
209
00:11:09,589 --> 00:11:10,721
Who the hell are you?
210
00:11:13,592 --> 00:11:16,996
Gerry Belliveau, RCMP.
211
00:11:16,997 --> 00:11:18,886
I heard you wanted to
speak with one of us.
212
00:11:18,887 --> 00:11:21,178
Yeah, what's going
on with my kid's case?
213
00:11:21,179 --> 00:11:23,735
What are you doing about Larry Jr.?
214
00:11:23,736 --> 00:11:26,331
Verbally aggressive and dominant.
215
00:11:26,332 --> 00:11:28,109
If he spoke, we had to listen.
216
00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:30,075
If we had something to say, shut up.
217
00:11:30,076 --> 00:11:31,543
We're working hard.
218
00:11:31,544 --> 00:11:33,045
I'll update you as soon as we have
219
00:11:33,046 --> 00:11:34,346
something we can share, but...
220
00:11:34,347 --> 00:11:36,907
What the hell are you good for?
221
00:11:40,553 --> 00:11:41,954
He was freaking arrogant!
222
00:11:41,955 --> 00:11:43,936
He came across to me as the type of guy
223
00:11:43,937 --> 00:11:46,212
that would do what he
wanted and when he wanted
224
00:11:46,213 --> 00:11:47,826
to suit his own needs,
225
00:11:47,827 --> 00:11:50,211
including getting pissed
off with his ex-spouse
226
00:11:50,212 --> 00:11:51,944
and doing something stupid.
227
00:11:52,472 --> 00:11:54,572
We had to have our team put together,
228
00:11:54,573 --> 00:11:55,855
a surveillance team put together,
229
00:11:55,856 --> 00:11:57,436
to kind of babysit him and watch him
230
00:11:57,437 --> 00:11:58,837
and see what was happening.
231
00:11:59,989 --> 00:12:02,280
37-year-old Mary Lou Barnes
232
00:12:02,281 --> 00:12:04,576
and her son Larry have
lived alone in this house
233
00:12:04,577 --> 00:12:06,984
since she split up with
her common-law husband
234
00:12:06,985 --> 00:12:09,048
earlier this year.
235
00:12:09,049 --> 00:12:10,983
Racked in grief and despair,
236
00:12:10,984 --> 00:12:14,113
Larry Mills talks of the
life wrenched from him,
237
00:12:14,114 --> 00:12:16,271
his only son, Larry Jr.
238
00:12:16,272 --> 00:12:18,089
To the person or persons...
239
00:12:19,225 --> 00:12:20,392
that have done this...
240
00:12:20,393 --> 00:12:22,284
Now, I remember, I was in the office
241
00:12:22,285 --> 00:12:23,694
with the rest of the investigative team,
242
00:12:23,695 --> 00:12:25,518
and we were watching the news clip.
243
00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:27,610
Poor Larry had tears
coming out of his eyes,
244
00:12:27,611 --> 00:12:29,302
you know, on TV in front of the camera.
245
00:12:29,303 --> 00:12:31,903
And I say: "Look at him.
I've seen this before.
246
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:34,895
Guys, don't get sucked
in. Don't get conned in".
247
00:12:34,896 --> 00:12:37,287
... or anyone that knows anything,
248
00:12:37,288 --> 00:12:40,322
please, please help us on this.
249
00:12:41,881 --> 00:12:44,283
It didn't take Larry off the hook.
250
00:12:44,284 --> 00:12:45,750
Not at all.
251
00:12:51,053 --> 00:12:53,224
I had a job to do. I'd stay focused.
252
00:12:53,225 --> 00:12:54,893
I had to stick with the facts.
253
00:12:54,894 --> 00:12:57,896
They've taken my life away.
254
00:12:57,897 --> 00:12:59,631
What am I gonna do?
255
00:12:59,632 --> 00:13:01,300
And then I sat back, said:
256
00:13:01,301 --> 00:13:03,285
"Okay, he's pissed off with his ex-wife
257
00:13:03,286 --> 00:13:06,238
to the point where he
wants her eliminated.
258
00:13:06,239 --> 00:13:08,374
But why the boy?"
259
00:13:08,375 --> 00:13:11,510
He was a miracle child, as it was.
260
00:13:11,511 --> 00:13:14,579
Now he's gone. He's been taken from me.
261
00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:16,782
How do I get that back?
262
00:13:16,783 --> 00:13:18,350
When I got to the office,
263
00:13:18,351 --> 00:13:20,585
I immediately asked the investigators
264
00:13:20,586 --> 00:13:24,505
to gather as much information
as we possibly could on Larry.
265
00:13:24,506 --> 00:13:27,446
Everybody said: "Larry loved his son".
266
00:13:27,447 --> 00:13:30,605
He truly loved his son.
And he loved his ex-wife.
267
00:13:30,606 --> 00:13:31,972
But I didn't know that.
268
00:13:33,433 --> 00:13:36,802
I reviewed the interview.
I reviewed my notes.
269
00:13:36,803 --> 00:13:40,806
And I took a step back on Larry.
270
00:13:40,807 --> 00:13:44,443
Cause of death: asphyxiation for both.
271
00:13:44,444 --> 00:13:45,766
Sexual assault?
272
00:13:45,767 --> 00:13:46,958
It's hard to tell.
273
00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:48,792
Mary Lou may have been assaulted,
274
00:13:48,793 --> 00:13:51,683
but there was no semen
found on the body.
275
00:13:51,684 --> 00:13:53,752
It's possible the
killer was interrupted.
276
00:13:53,753 --> 00:13:57,284
There were traces of semen
on the bed sheets, though.
277
00:13:57,285 --> 00:13:59,558
Let's check those. What
about the pantyhose?
278
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,027
There was DNA left behind,
279
00:14:02,028 --> 00:14:03,710
just like you thought.
280
00:14:03,711 --> 00:14:04,935
Probably his skin cells
281
00:14:04,936 --> 00:14:07,051
from when the killer
pulled the pantyhose tight.
282
00:14:07,052 --> 00:14:09,719
But there was a second source
of DNA on the pantyhose:
283
00:14:10,436 --> 00:14:11,703
Mary Lou's skin cells.
284
00:14:11,704 --> 00:14:14,709
We can't seem to separate
her DNA from the killer's.
285
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:16,008
It's all mixed together.
286
00:14:16,009 --> 00:14:18,109
What... what... What
are you saying to me?
287
00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:21,513
If we can't isolate the
killer's DNA from Mary Lou's,
288
00:14:21,514 --> 00:14:23,658
we have nothing to
compare any sample to,
289
00:14:23,659 --> 00:14:25,559
nothing that will hold up in court.
290
00:14:26,644 --> 00:14:29,736
You've got male DNA,
female DNA, and it's mixed.
291
00:14:29,737 --> 00:14:31,694
So, you have a liquid cup of coffee,
292
00:14:31,695 --> 00:14:34,481
and you know I put 3
teaspoons of tea in there.
293
00:14:34,482 --> 00:14:35,839
So, I go to you and I say:
294
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,464
"Okay, I want you to take
the tea out of that coffee".
295
00:14:38,465 --> 00:14:40,529
You can't, because it's mixed.
296
00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:43,308
You don't have a technology
to go in specifically
297
00:14:43,309 --> 00:14:45,938
and take out 3 teaspoons of tea
that's mixed in with the coffee,
298
00:14:45,939 --> 00:14:47,406
because it's now one liquid.
299
00:14:47,407 --> 00:14:50,943
The scientists of the day in 1995
300
00:14:50,944 --> 00:14:55,213
could not separate the male
DNA from Mary Lou's female DNA.
301
00:14:55,214 --> 00:14:56,748
So, what else are we gonna do?
302
00:14:56,749 --> 00:14:59,217
What else am I gonna do now
to move the file forward?
303
00:14:59,218 --> 00:15:01,915
What did we get from
the neighbourhood canvas?
304
00:15:01,916 --> 00:15:05,624
Neighbours mentioned
a man: Martin Lowrey.
305
00:15:05,625 --> 00:15:09,561
No fixed address, seen sneaking
around in backyards recently.
306
00:15:09,562 --> 00:15:11,697
He was at Mary Lou's
the day of the murder.
307
00:15:11,698 --> 00:15:12,830
Do you know this guy?
308
00:15:12,831 --> 00:15:14,766
Yeah, he's been in
trouble over the years.
309
00:15:14,767 --> 00:15:17,635
And get his: he used to stay
at the Home for Special Care.
310
00:15:18,671 --> 00:15:20,772
- Cathy Cole's place?
- Correct.
311
00:15:20,773 --> 00:15:22,641
Cole and Mills lived there too.
312
00:15:22,642 --> 00:15:25,202
Apparently, Lowrey
had a thing for Cathy.
313
00:15:26,045 --> 00:15:28,113
All right, what else do we have?
314
00:15:28,114 --> 00:15:31,349
Neighbours also mentioned
a man named Cameron Dahl...
315
00:15:32,418 --> 00:15:34,653
seen around Mary Lou's most weekends.
316
00:15:34,654 --> 00:15:37,134
They think he was her boyfriend.
317
00:15:38,591 --> 00:15:40,859
- There was a boyfriend?
- Correct.
318
00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:43,595
He used to talk about her,
brag about how she was in bed.
319
00:15:43,596 --> 00:15:46,497
Well, let's bring him in,
see what he has to say now.
320
00:15:48,601 --> 00:15:50,802
I find out from a witness that,
321
00:15:50,803 --> 00:15:53,404
that morning, Cameron had driven by,
322
00:15:53,405 --> 00:15:57,666
saw the activity at the crime
scene and took off.
323
00:15:57,667 --> 00:15:59,144
Didn't stop. Didn't ask questions.
324
00:15:59,145 --> 00:16:00,635
Didn't do a: "What's going on?"
325
00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:01,636
Just took off.
326
00:16:10,685 --> 00:16:12,207
I'd like to ask you a few questions
327
00:16:12,208 --> 00:16:15,543
about your relationship
with Mary... Mary Lou Barnes.
328
00:16:16,495 --> 00:16:19,364
When was the last time that you saw her?
329
00:16:19,365 --> 00:16:21,767
Last weekend?
330
00:16:21,768 --> 00:16:23,768
I stopped by.
331
00:16:25,638 --> 00:16:27,365
Did you speak to her on November 5?
332
00:16:27,366 --> 00:16:29,123
A phone call, anything like that?
333
00:16:29,124 --> 00:16:30,481
No.
334
00:16:30,482 --> 00:16:33,574
No, I was supposed to go over,
335
00:16:33,575 --> 00:16:35,798
but I changed my mind.
336
00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:38,383
You changed your mind?
337
00:16:38,384 --> 00:16:41,119
What did you do instead?
338
00:16:43,656 --> 00:16:45,791
I just stayed home.
339
00:16:45,792 --> 00:16:49,061
You decided to skip a date with her
340
00:16:49,062 --> 00:16:51,028
to stay home alone?
341
00:16:53,283 --> 00:16:55,373
It made no sense to me.
342
00:16:55,374 --> 00:16:57,686
"This stinks. There's
something wrong here".
343
00:16:57,687 --> 00:17:00,378
Cameron was supposed to
be, in fact, at the house
344
00:17:00,379 --> 00:17:01,736
on that Sunday night
345
00:17:01,737 --> 00:17:03,937
and opted not to be there Sunday night.
346
00:17:04,543 --> 00:17:09,147
But drives by Monday
morning and doesn't stop.
347
00:17:09,148 --> 00:17:11,083
That was his girlfriend.
348
00:17:11,084 --> 00:17:13,660
And nobody, nobody reacts that way.
349
00:17:13,661 --> 00:17:16,152
No normal person should
be reacting that way.
350
00:17:16,153 --> 00:17:18,542
Your normal instincts
are to stop to find out:
351
00:17:18,543 --> 00:17:19,933
"What's going on? Where's my girlfriend?
352
00:17:19,934 --> 00:17:20,974
What happened here?"
353
00:17:22,695 --> 00:17:25,163
And he just didn't want to
know, couldn't care less?
354
00:17:25,164 --> 00:17:27,365
"I'm just gonna move on
and do my little thing"?
355
00:17:27,366 --> 00:17:29,701
Didn't work. It didn't cut it.
356
00:17:29,702 --> 00:17:31,837
Maybe you didn't mean to hurt her.
357
00:17:31,838 --> 00:17:35,019
Maybe you go over there,
you're looking for a good time.
358
00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:36,975
That's not what happened.
359
00:17:36,976 --> 00:17:39,512
Maybe she's... she's not in the mood.
360
00:17:39,513 --> 00:17:40,736
It wasn't like that.
361
00:17:40,737 --> 00:17:43,823
Maybe you wait until
little Larry goes to bed.
362
00:17:43,824 --> 00:17:46,585
- Please.
- And you can do whatever you want.
363
00:17:46,586 --> 00:17:48,186
Please, man!
364
00:17:48,187 --> 00:17:50,122
He's hiding something!
365
00:17:50,123 --> 00:17:52,290
I've got two deceased persons.
366
00:17:52,291 --> 00:17:53,688
You're the boyfriend.
367
00:17:53,689 --> 00:17:55,972
You ran away from that
place that morning.
368
00:17:55,973 --> 00:17:57,133
You didn't want to stop.
369
00:17:57,134 --> 00:17:59,552
I've got you here, and
I'm challenging you.
370
00:17:59,553 --> 00:18:01,333
Make no mistake about it,
I'm going to challenge you.
371
00:18:01,334 --> 00:18:02,633
And I'm not done with you!
372
00:18:03,569 --> 00:18:05,139
Okay, I... I didn't hurt her, man.
373
00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:07,297
I... I would never hurt anybody.
374
00:18:07,298 --> 00:18:09,490
Please, just let... let
me prove it to you, okay?
375
00:18:09,491 --> 00:18:11,014
I... I could take a lie detector.
376
00:18:11,015 --> 00:18:13,558
You could take my DNA! Do the test!
377
00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:14,725
Take whatever you want!
378
00:18:19,685 --> 00:18:22,687
And so, Cameron came in
for a lie-detector test.
379
00:18:22,688 --> 00:18:25,490
Polygraph just came back.
It came back a pass.
380
00:18:25,491 --> 00:18:27,793
- Dahl was telling the truth.
- Great.
381
00:18:29,362 --> 00:18:32,339
A polygraph test, it's a tool.
382
00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:33,686
It's a good baseline
383
00:18:33,687 --> 00:18:36,601
if we're going in the
right direction or not.
384
00:18:36,602 --> 00:18:38,059
I do have some better news.
385
00:18:39,151 --> 00:18:41,108
Got a fixed location on Martin Lowrey,
386
00:18:41,109 --> 00:18:43,427
the guy that was snooping
around in backyards.
387
00:18:43,428 --> 00:18:46,196
He's living rough just
outside of Moncton.
388
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:48,613
Thanks.
389
00:18:48,614 --> 00:18:50,247
Drive safe!
390
00:18:52,118 --> 00:18:56,054
Not only was Martin Lowrey
seen hanging around Mary Lou's
391
00:18:56,055 --> 00:18:57,455
the day of the murders,
392
00:18:57,456 --> 00:19:00,291
he was infatuated with Cathy Cole.
393
00:19:00,292 --> 00:19:04,629
Well, Cathy Cole's
new boyfriend is Larry,
394
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:06,097
is Larry Mills.
395
00:19:09,134 --> 00:19:12,003
So, did Martin have
something to do with this?
396
00:19:13,089 --> 00:19:14,421
Mr. Lowrey?
397
00:19:15,274 --> 00:19:19,211
Sergeant Belliveau, RCMP.
398
00:19:19,212 --> 00:19:21,792
I'd like to ask you a few
questions, if you don't mind.
399
00:19:21,793 --> 00:19:23,149
Okay.
400
00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:24,817
Let's take a walk.
401
00:19:26,351 --> 00:19:28,620
It's regarding Mary Lou Barnes.
402
00:19:28,621 --> 00:19:30,021
Who?
403
00:19:30,022 --> 00:19:31,390
Mary Lou Barnes.
404
00:19:31,391 --> 00:19:34,358
You were spotted in
her backyard November 5,
405
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,094
and a few other backyards
in the neighbourhood too.
406
00:19:37,095 --> 00:19:39,364
I like to wander around a bit,
407
00:19:39,365 --> 00:19:41,015
see what people are up to.
408
00:19:41,016 --> 00:19:43,101
Not hurting anybody.
409
00:19:43,102 --> 00:19:45,904
Well, Mary Lou and her
son, they were hurt.
410
00:19:45,905 --> 00:19:48,139
I don't know nothing about that.
411
00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:49,908
But you were in the area?
412
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:52,110
Sure, I used to stay over there.
413
00:19:52,111 --> 00:19:53,891
Oh, at the Home for Special Care,
414
00:19:53,892 --> 00:19:55,379
Cathy Cole's place?
415
00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:56,715
Yeah.
416
00:19:56,716 --> 00:19:59,317
Cathy, she was nice to me.
417
00:19:59,318 --> 00:20:02,620
She deserved better
than that guy she's with.
418
00:20:03,506 --> 00:20:05,496
- Larry Mills Sr.?
- Yeah.
419
00:20:05,497 --> 00:20:07,522
I don't like him. Nobody likes him.
420
00:20:07,523 --> 00:20:10,357
Well, it was his family that was killed.
421
00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:13,698
You should ask him about that.
422
00:20:13,699 --> 00:20:14,999
Bet you he did it.
423
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,400
He gets mad.
424
00:20:16,401 --> 00:20:19,337
He hated Larry. He hated Larry
and he was scared of Larry.
425
00:20:19,338 --> 00:20:22,007
"He's the ex-husband. It's probably him.
426
00:20:22,008 --> 00:20:25,210
He's the ex-husband. Well,
why are you asking me?"
427
00:20:25,211 --> 00:20:28,813
So, he was deflecting
and trying to blame Larry.
428
00:20:28,814 --> 00:20:30,682
He thought I had a thing for Cathy.
429
00:20:30,683 --> 00:20:31,750
Did you?
430
00:20:31,751 --> 00:20:33,852
She's my friend.
431
00:20:33,853 --> 00:20:35,753
I'd do anything for her.
432
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:39,156
How far would that go?
433
00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:42,693
Far as it takes.
434
00:20:43,608 --> 00:20:46,965
So, did Martin have
something to do with this?
435
00:20:46,966 --> 00:20:50,167
Was he upset because
Cathy's got a new boyfriend,
436
00:20:50,168 --> 00:20:53,305
and he wants to get back
at the new boyfriend,
437
00:20:53,306 --> 00:20:55,072
being Larry?
438
00:20:55,073 --> 00:20:56,508
I thank him.
439
00:20:56,509 --> 00:21:01,313
I give him a pack of smokes,
and he goes on his merry way.
440
00:21:01,314 --> 00:21:03,381
I said: "We need to look at him".
441
00:21:05,852 --> 00:21:07,719
That same night,
442
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,857
Martin jumps in front of a
truck and commits suicide.
443
00:21:19,398 --> 00:21:23,033
I had just interviewed
him about 6 hours ago.
444
00:21:29,479 --> 00:21:31,703
It was almost like a guilt trip, where:
445
00:21:31,704 --> 00:21:34,179
"Okay, I gotta kill myself
because they're gonna get me.
446
00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:36,881
They talked to me today,
and they're gonna get me".
447
00:21:38,769 --> 00:21:40,927
What does that mean?
448
00:21:40,928 --> 00:21:42,753
Why today? Why now?
449
00:21:45,026 --> 00:21:47,384
What is he involved in in this file?
450
00:21:47,385 --> 00:21:50,343
What role did he play?
Did he play a role?
451
00:21:50,344 --> 00:21:53,364
We need to clean this up and
find out what's going on here.
452
00:21:58,304 --> 00:21:59,905
Martin jumps in front of a truck
453
00:21:59,906 --> 00:22:01,773
and commits suicide.
454
00:22:01,774 --> 00:22:05,242
Now, did this happen
because he knows something?
455
00:22:05,243 --> 00:22:07,045
Is he involved?
456
00:22:07,046 --> 00:22:10,982
Or is he not involved at
all, and he just has issues?
457
00:22:10,983 --> 00:22:12,384
Hey, Gerry!
458
00:22:12,385 --> 00:22:13,718
What's up?
459
00:22:13,719 --> 00:22:15,520
I've got a woman waiting for you.
460
00:22:15,521 --> 00:22:16,577
Name's Vicki White.
461
00:22:16,578 --> 00:22:18,536
She wants to talk about her husband Ray.
462
00:22:18,537 --> 00:22:20,894
This lady comes to the
office. Her name's Vicki.
463
00:22:20,895 --> 00:22:23,595
"My husband took off,
and he's got a loaded gun.
464
00:22:23,596 --> 00:22:24,729
He's in a..."
465
00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:26,735
"Whoa, slow down, Vicki.
Start this over again.
466
00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:28,226
Who's your husband, first of all?"
467
00:22:28,227 --> 00:22:30,451
"My husband's name is Ray, Ray White".
468
00:22:30,452 --> 00:22:32,810
He was going to pick our
daughter up at school,
469
00:22:32,811 --> 00:22:34,271
but he never showed up.
470
00:22:34,272 --> 00:22:37,408
He took my car, my
credit card and, uh...
471
00:22:39,345 --> 00:22:41,212
... and a gun.
472
00:22:41,213 --> 00:22:42,814
His .22.
473
00:22:42,815 --> 00:22:45,683
Do you know of any reason
why he might leave or...
474
00:22:48,487 --> 00:22:50,087
I, uh...
475
00:22:51,594 --> 00:22:54,195
I'm scared he might have
done something terrible.
476
00:22:55,461 --> 00:22:57,127
I saw on the news, uh...
477
00:22:58,230 --> 00:23:00,031
Mary Lou?
478
00:23:00,032 --> 00:23:02,633
And her poor child. I...
479
00:23:03,603 --> 00:23:05,102
Do you know them?
480
00:23:06,606 --> 00:23:08,440
I knew Mary Lou.
481
00:23:08,441 --> 00:23:09,974
We worked together.
482
00:23:09,975 --> 00:23:11,776
Does Ray know her?
483
00:23:11,777 --> 00:23:14,646
I think he drove us
both to work a few times.
484
00:23:14,647 --> 00:23:17,848
I remember one night,
we were both at the bar.
485
00:23:17,849 --> 00:23:20,951
Uh... Mary Lou was there too.
486
00:23:22,655 --> 00:23:24,588
Ray just kept...
487
00:23:25,724 --> 00:23:27,458
staring at her.
488
00:23:27,459 --> 00:23:30,828
Can you think of any reason
why he might want to harm them?
489
00:23:31,931 --> 00:23:34,451
Where was he Sunday night?
490
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,899
Out with friends at the bar.
491
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:38,857
That's what he said.
492
00:23:38,858 --> 00:23:41,082
This came out of the blue,
493
00:23:41,083 --> 00:23:44,817
absolutely out of the blue.
494
00:23:44,818 --> 00:23:46,908
No idea what was going on here.
495
00:23:46,909 --> 00:23:49,133
Ray was not on our radar.
496
00:23:49,134 --> 00:23:51,225
No idea who Ray White was.
497
00:23:51,226 --> 00:23:53,882
And this Vicki walked
and gives us a story.
498
00:23:53,883 --> 00:23:55,553
Well, I thought that was gold.
499
00:23:55,554 --> 00:23:59,290
That's when we started doing
background on Ray White.
500
00:23:59,291 --> 00:24:01,426
What do we know about Ray White?
501
00:24:01,427 --> 00:24:03,825
Raymond White: Originally from BC.
502
00:24:03,826 --> 00:24:05,096
Came here a few years ago,
503
00:24:05,097 --> 00:24:06,898
and the trouble started right up:
504
00:24:06,899 --> 00:24:09,214
drugs, violence, armed robbery...
505
00:24:09,215 --> 00:24:12,517
Put in about 20 years
in prison, on and off.
506
00:24:13,887 --> 00:24:17,647
Ray White was a serious
and a hardcore criminal.
507
00:24:17,648 --> 00:24:20,482
We were able to track
him down fairly quick.
508
00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:28,980
- Shit!
- Don't bother.
509
00:24:31,995 --> 00:24:33,852
Ray White, you are under arrest.
510
00:24:33,853 --> 00:24:37,400
So, Ray was arrested there
for possession of firearms.
511
00:24:37,401 --> 00:24:39,654
You can call an attorney
when we get to the station...
512
00:24:39,655 --> 00:24:43,429
Forget all that. Let's just
get this over with, all right?
513
00:24:45,388 --> 00:24:46,678
The first thing he says is:
514
00:24:46,679 --> 00:24:49,604
"Never mind this BS.
I'll tell you everything".
515
00:24:49,605 --> 00:24:50,885
Come on.
516
00:24:54,291 --> 00:24:56,015
Of course, we're all excited now.
517
00:24:56,016 --> 00:24:59,084
The gig's up. At least,
we feel the gig's up.
518
00:25:04,322 --> 00:25:07,492
So, Ray ends up at this pizzeria,
519
00:25:07,493 --> 00:25:08,692
and we locate him.
520
00:25:08,693 --> 00:25:11,028
As he walks out of the restaurant,
521
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:12,830
we take him down right there.
522
00:25:12,831 --> 00:25:16,568
He was arrested there for
possession of firearms.
523
00:25:27,246 --> 00:25:28,371
So, we get back,
524
00:25:28,372 --> 00:25:34,318
and Ray insists that he wants to
speak to a female RCMP officer.
525
00:25:36,454 --> 00:25:37,588
Ray...
526
00:25:38,924 --> 00:25:40,057
Hey.
527
00:25:43,528 --> 00:25:45,677
What do you know about the
murders of Mary Lou Barnes
528
00:25:45,678 --> 00:25:46,958
and Larry Mills Jr.?
529
00:25:51,157 --> 00:25:54,292
It was a hit, uh, a contract.
530
00:25:56,074 --> 00:25:57,742
On a mother and a child?
531
00:25:57,743 --> 00:25:59,143
How do you know this?
532
00:26:02,214 --> 00:26:04,248
I met the guy who did it.
533
00:26:05,885 --> 00:26:07,752
He didn't tell me much.
534
00:26:10,623 --> 00:26:14,491
But I got the sense that
he was there for the woman.
535
00:26:14,492 --> 00:26:18,296
He didn't know the
kid was gonna be there.
536
00:26:18,297 --> 00:26:21,633
So when he walked into the bedroom
537
00:26:21,634 --> 00:26:24,201
and saw what was happening...
538
00:26:27,306 --> 00:26:29,473
... he had to go.
539
00:26:31,844 --> 00:26:34,411
He strangled him too.
540
00:26:35,981 --> 00:26:37,815
Who is this guy?
541
00:26:39,451 --> 00:26:40,785
I ain't saying.
542
00:26:40,786 --> 00:26:43,054
Because I don't want
the same thing to happen
543
00:26:43,055 --> 00:26:44,121
to my wife and kid.
544
00:26:44,122 --> 00:26:47,157
He just... he just told you all of this?
545
00:26:49,361 --> 00:26:51,128
I was selling him some coke,
546
00:26:51,129 --> 00:26:54,465
and he was trying to
pay with this gold chain.
547
00:26:54,466 --> 00:26:56,123
Said he took it from the victim,
548
00:26:56,124 --> 00:27:01,505
like a bonus payment for killing
two people instead of just one.
549
00:27:02,608 --> 00:27:04,508
What about the chain?
550
00:27:04,509 --> 00:27:08,779
It was big. Close links. Uh...
551
00:27:10,416 --> 00:27:11,749
About this long.
552
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:13,932
Looked expensive.
553
00:27:13,933 --> 00:27:15,133
Real expensive.
554
00:27:16,966 --> 00:27:19,624
When we went to Mary Lou's mobile home,
555
00:27:19,625 --> 00:27:22,193
we had seized all the
jewellery that was there.
556
00:27:22,194 --> 00:27:24,094
If we were able to confirm
557
00:27:24,095 --> 00:27:26,416
that, in fact, there
was a gold chain missing,
558
00:27:26,417 --> 00:27:29,885
we knew that we were onto
something with Ray White.
559
00:27:30,481 --> 00:27:33,449
We went back to Larry Mills.
560
00:27:35,227 --> 00:27:36,851
I approached Larry, and I said:
561
00:27:36,852 --> 00:27:39,310
"You know, Larry, we didn't
start off on a good foot".
562
00:27:39,311 --> 00:27:41,174
Larry said: "No, Gerry, we didn't.
563
00:27:41,175 --> 00:27:42,475
"It didn't go well at all.
564
00:27:42,476 --> 00:27:44,613
"As a matter of fact, I
hated you, and you hated me".
565
00:27:44,614 --> 00:27:46,918
I said: "Larry, maybe you
hated me more than I hated you".
566
00:27:46,919 --> 00:27:50,080
So now, we're not friends
in any way, shape or form.
567
00:27:50,081 --> 00:27:51,722
But he's starting to
warm up a bit to me.
568
00:27:51,723 --> 00:27:54,058
"Oh, Gerry, what's up? What's
going on? What are you doing here?"
569
00:27:54,059 --> 00:27:55,793
I'll tell you what I'm
doing here, Larry.
570
00:27:55,794 --> 00:27:57,662
I just want to identify this jewellery.
571
00:27:57,663 --> 00:27:59,330
We got a bunch of jewellery here".
572
00:27:59,331 --> 00:28:01,866
That's everything from
Mary Lou's bedroom.
573
00:28:01,867 --> 00:28:04,902
Just... just see if you
notice anything missing.
574
00:28:08,473 --> 00:28:09,753
Hmm.
575
00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:14,511
I got this before we got married.
576
00:28:17,049 --> 00:28:18,548
She loved that ring.
577
00:28:25,557 --> 00:28:27,591
Where is it?
578
00:28:29,695 --> 00:28:31,395
Is something missing?
579
00:28:31,396 --> 00:28:34,604
Yeah. Where is it?
580
00:28:34,605 --> 00:28:35,762
He's identifying jewellery
581
00:28:35,763 --> 00:28:37,954
and identifying this
necklace and this bracelet.
582
00:28:37,955 --> 00:28:39,512
And he says: "Wait a sec!"
583
00:28:39,513 --> 00:28:40,679
He taps the table.
584
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,419
He says: "Where's the goddamn chain?"
585
00:28:44,650 --> 00:28:46,674
- Did you guys take something?
- Larry...
586
00:28:46,675 --> 00:28:48,098
Did somebody steal it?
587
00:28:48,099 --> 00:28:49,880
Somebody must have stolen it, right?
588
00:28:49,881 --> 00:28:51,172
She would never take it off.
589
00:28:51,173 --> 00:28:52,930
Just tell me what you're looking for.
590
00:28:52,931 --> 00:28:54,731
A big gold chain.
591
00:28:55,896 --> 00:28:57,921
The necklace that I got
for Mary Lou in New York.
592
00:28:57,922 --> 00:29:00,482
And it cost me a bundle too.
593
00:29:01,402 --> 00:29:02,601
It's not here.
594
00:29:02,602 --> 00:29:05,071
"I'm telling you, there's
an effin' chain missing,
595
00:29:05,072 --> 00:29:07,273
and Mary Lou never took that chain off.
596
00:29:07,274 --> 00:29:09,342
And so, where's the fricking chain?"
597
00:29:09,343 --> 00:29:12,327
He described it the same
way that Ray described it.
598
00:29:12,328 --> 00:29:13,817
But it's not there.
599
00:29:13,818 --> 00:29:15,777
So, we had a meeting
back up at the office.
600
00:29:15,778 --> 00:29:19,150
And I said: "Guys, we
are onto something".
601
00:29:21,221 --> 00:29:24,824
The next night, Ray's
picture is flashed on TV
602
00:29:24,825 --> 00:29:28,161
as he's walking into
court for gun charges.
603
00:29:28,162 --> 00:29:30,630
We get a phone call.
604
00:29:30,631 --> 00:29:32,898
"That's not Raymond
White. That's Ray Parker.
605
00:29:32,899 --> 00:29:35,701
He tried to sexually assault
me a couple of days ago".
606
00:29:36,379 --> 00:29:39,504
Turns out an individual
by the name of Ray Parker
607
00:29:39,505 --> 00:29:42,301
played the scenario of the
guy wanting to buy a house
608
00:29:42,302 --> 00:29:46,046
and attempted to sexually
assault this real-estate lady.
609
00:29:46,047 --> 00:29:47,870
And so, he was arrested,
610
00:29:47,871 --> 00:29:51,454
and he's got 3 years of a sentence
for the sexual assault
611
00:29:51,455 --> 00:29:53,454
and the possession of
the illegal firearms
612
00:29:53,455 --> 00:29:56,255
that had absolutely nothing
to do with the double homicide
613
00:29:56,256 --> 00:29:57,524
that we were investigating.
614
00:29:57,525 --> 00:30:00,616
We had to gather the
evidence that we required
615
00:30:00,617 --> 00:30:02,829
to lay a charge of double homicide
616
00:30:02,830 --> 00:30:04,587
before his 3 years were up.
617
00:30:04,588 --> 00:30:07,246
Tell me who did it. Tell the truth.
618
00:30:11,005 --> 00:30:12,438
Look, man...
619
00:30:14,008 --> 00:30:16,142
I don't blame you for trying.
620
00:30:16,143 --> 00:30:18,078
But I ain't doing it.
621
00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:21,614
Now, good luck on catching the guy.
622
00:30:21,615 --> 00:30:24,484
And good luck on making him talk.
623
00:30:24,485 --> 00:30:28,087
'Cause he's gonna take everything he did
624
00:30:28,088 --> 00:30:29,822
and lock it up,
625
00:30:29,823 --> 00:30:33,792
put it in a compartment right here...
626
00:30:35,896 --> 00:30:37,596
and never let it out.
627
00:30:41,568 --> 00:30:43,770
Ray's now number one on our list.
628
00:30:43,771 --> 00:30:46,939
He's our guy. But we
needed more evidence.
629
00:30:48,909 --> 00:30:52,978
I would go to Larry's
probably 2, 3 times a month.
630
00:30:52,979 --> 00:30:54,981
He'd sit outside, have a cigarette.
631
00:30:54,982 --> 00:30:56,306
I'd sit outside and talk with him.
632
00:30:56,307 --> 00:30:59,163
Sometimes, he wouldn't say much.
Sometimes, he'd give me hell.
633
00:30:59,164 --> 00:31:01,287
I'd take it. I'd listen to him.
634
00:31:01,288 --> 00:31:04,257
He was frustrated by the loss.
635
00:31:04,258 --> 00:31:05,859
But I kept reminding Larry that:
636
00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:07,650
"We're gonna have one shot at this.
637
00:31:07,651 --> 00:31:10,334
And so, we need to make sure
that we have our ducks in a row
638
00:31:10,335 --> 00:31:11,871
so that your son
639
00:31:11,872 --> 00:31:14,601
and your ex-wife are treated
fairly at the end of the day.
640
00:31:14,602 --> 00:31:15,826
And we're not there yet, Larry".
641
00:31:15,827 --> 00:31:18,538
I don't understand. You know he did it.
642
00:31:18,539 --> 00:31:20,406
We don't have any proof.
643
00:31:20,407 --> 00:31:24,210
No forensic evidence,
no DNA, no confession.
644
00:31:24,211 --> 00:31:26,212
The truth is not enough.
645
00:31:26,213 --> 00:31:27,747
Goddammit!
646
00:31:30,632 --> 00:31:32,032
I saw him, you know.
647
00:31:32,974 --> 00:31:34,197
Who?
648
00:31:34,198 --> 00:31:35,832
Larry Jr.
649
00:31:37,591 --> 00:31:40,659
Well, I didn't see him. I... I felt him.
650
00:31:44,832 --> 00:31:47,165
Larry was really,
really down in the dumps.
651
00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:48,223
And he went in the woods,
652
00:31:48,224 --> 00:31:50,315
brought his rifle with him,
a shotgun with him,
653
00:31:50,316 --> 00:31:51,839
and he did some soul searching.
654
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:52,963
And he sat down.
655
00:31:52,964 --> 00:31:54,487
He said: "That's it".
656
00:31:54,488 --> 00:31:57,991
"I'm fed up of life.
Larry's never coming back.
657
00:31:57,992 --> 00:32:00,202
My life is miserable.
I think of him every day.
658
00:32:00,203 --> 00:32:02,048
I can't look at his picture".
659
00:32:02,049 --> 00:32:05,251
The shotgun was loaded.
He had it down by his feet.
660
00:32:05,252 --> 00:32:08,321
And he was ready to do his thing.
661
00:32:08,322 --> 00:32:11,056
And he said that's
when he got the vision.
662
00:32:11,057 --> 00:32:14,059
That's when Junior talked to him.
663
00:32:14,060 --> 00:32:15,728
And Junior said,
664
00:32:15,729 --> 00:32:17,597
Rare said:
665
00:32:17,598 --> 00:32:20,399
"Dad, don't do this.
666
00:32:22,403 --> 00:32:24,403
Don't do this".
667
00:32:24,404 --> 00:32:26,805
And he didn't move forward.
668
00:32:26,806 --> 00:32:29,876
"Because I'm dead
doesn't give you the right
669
00:32:29,877 --> 00:32:31,678
to bring yourself to me.
670
00:32:31,679 --> 00:32:33,680
You need to live your life".
671
00:32:33,681 --> 00:32:36,348
And he put the gun down.
672
00:32:41,087 --> 00:32:44,929
Since then, I've been
trying to work on my anger,
673
00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:49,589
you know, to stay positive,
stay focused, but it's hard.
674
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:50,713
It's real hard.
675
00:32:50,714 --> 00:32:52,670
I know you're angry and I know it hurts,
676
00:32:52,671 --> 00:32:54,407
but he is going away for 3 years.
677
00:32:54,408 --> 00:32:55,601
Three years.
678
00:32:55,602 --> 00:32:57,993
That gives us time to keep digging,
679
00:32:57,994 --> 00:32:59,700
find more evidence.
680
00:32:59,701 --> 00:33:03,460
A witness, something.
And we will find it.
681
00:33:03,461 --> 00:33:06,095
He is going away for this.
682
00:33:07,847 --> 00:33:09,448
You have my word.
683
00:33:09,449 --> 00:33:11,723
And I said: "Larry, I'm on your side.
684
00:33:11,724 --> 00:33:13,982
You need to be patient.
You need to trust me.
685
00:33:13,983 --> 00:33:16,040
And you need to allow us to do our job.
686
00:33:16,041 --> 00:33:18,432
And sometimes, it takes
more time than what we want.
687
00:33:18,433 --> 00:33:20,099
It's just the nature of the beast".
688
00:33:20,727 --> 00:33:23,062
- Well, 3 years comes up.
- _
689
00:33:23,063 --> 00:33:24,920
We did not have any evidence
690
00:33:24,921 --> 00:33:27,946
to hold Ray or charge
him for a double homicide.
691
00:33:27,947 --> 00:33:31,583
Ray White walked out
of prison a free man.
692
00:33:37,077 --> 00:33:39,078
Ah!
693
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:41,748
It's so good to be out of jail.
694
00:33:41,749 --> 00:33:43,149
We didn't give up, though!
695
00:33:43,150 --> 00:33:45,150
The day that Ray walked out of jail,
696
00:33:45,151 --> 00:33:47,020
we had eyes and ears on him.
697
00:33:47,021 --> 00:33:49,221
White went back to BC,
698
00:33:49,222 --> 00:33:51,590
but we were there waiting for him.
699
00:33:56,124 --> 00:33:57,448
_
700
00:33:57,449 --> 00:34:00,566
I was once described
by one of my supervisors:
701
00:34:00,567 --> 00:34:02,401
"Gerry is like a pit bull.
702
00:34:02,402 --> 00:34:04,704
When he bites, he doesn't let go".
703
00:34:04,705 --> 00:34:06,699
So, when I was told
704
00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:09,042
that Ray White was in British Columbia,
705
00:34:09,043 --> 00:34:12,544
well, I went into pit bull
mode and I went after him.
706
00:34:20,721 --> 00:34:23,389
We set up an undercover operation
707
00:34:23,390 --> 00:34:24,820
and we had an undercover operator
708
00:34:24,821 --> 00:34:26,578
working as a drug dealer,
709
00:34:26,579 --> 00:34:27,912
and Ray bought into that.
710
00:34:29,997 --> 00:34:31,697
I think it's all there.
711
00:34:32,830 --> 00:34:34,387
You're trying to tell me
712
00:34:34,388 --> 00:34:37,276
you counted through
half a million dollars?
713
00:34:37,277 --> 00:34:39,377
Well, ballpark.
714
00:34:41,141 --> 00:34:44,077
Shit! It's easy to make money out here.
715
00:34:44,078 --> 00:34:45,744
It's like the Wild West.
716
00:34:47,223 --> 00:34:49,248
- I should have never left.
- Whoa, whoa!
717
00:34:49,249 --> 00:34:52,484
What the hell are you doing?
No, you're still on the clock.
718
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:58,791
You're paranoid, you know that?
719
00:34:58,792 --> 00:35:01,160
Take a hit.
720
00:35:01,161 --> 00:35:03,095
Maybe relax a little.
721
00:35:04,131 --> 00:35:05,832
Seriously.
722
00:35:05,833 --> 00:35:08,568
I used to do a bit of
coke back in the day.
723
00:35:08,569 --> 00:35:11,004
Now, I was lucky I had the boss I did.
724
00:35:11,005 --> 00:35:14,292
Took care of me before I
let things get out of hand.
725
00:35:14,293 --> 00:35:16,817
That shit makes you go crazy.
726
00:35:16,818 --> 00:35:18,118
Mmm.
727
00:35:19,381 --> 00:35:21,939
Yeah, tell me about it.
728
00:35:21,940 --> 00:35:25,366
Coke made me do some shit
back East I'm not proud of.
729
00:35:25,367 --> 00:35:27,033
What kind of shit?
730
00:35:35,595 --> 00:35:37,196
I got high.
731
00:35:37,197 --> 00:35:39,164
I got crazy.
732
00:35:40,801 --> 00:35:43,002
A couple of people got
what they deserved.
733
00:35:43,003 --> 00:35:44,863
Jesus, Ray!
734
00:35:44,864 --> 00:35:46,282
Listen, don't worry about it, man.
735
00:35:46,283 --> 00:35:47,573
It was years ago.
736
00:35:47,574 --> 00:35:50,275
They never got me, and they never will.
737
00:35:50,276 --> 00:35:51,878
I made sure of that.
738
00:35:51,879 --> 00:35:53,445
No witnesses.
739
00:35:55,482 --> 00:35:57,817
They don't even know where I am.
740
00:35:57,818 --> 00:35:59,384
What happened?
741
00:36:03,290 --> 00:36:06,426
You already know
everything you need to know.
742
00:36:06,427 --> 00:36:08,560
The rest of it stays with me.
743
00:36:09,963 --> 00:36:12,798
I got it locked in a compartment...
744
00:36:14,033 --> 00:36:15,267
right here.
745
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,517
Good luck on catching the guy.
746
00:36:18,518 --> 00:36:20,543
He's gonna take everything he did
747
00:36:20,544 --> 00:36:21,900
and lock it up,
748
00:36:21,901 --> 00:36:23,392
put it in a compartment...
749
00:36:23,393 --> 00:36:25,026
right here.
750
00:36:25,859 --> 00:36:27,081
We got him!
751
00:36:27,082 --> 00:36:28,380
He said himself:
752
00:36:28,381 --> 00:36:30,315
"Those two people got what they deserve,
753
00:36:30,316 --> 00:36:33,167
and the reason I did it is
because I had my coke problem.
754
00:36:33,168 --> 00:36:35,105
And as far as I'm concerned,
it's in a compartment,
755
00:36:35,106 --> 00:36:36,989
and it ain't ever coming out".
756
00:36:36,990 --> 00:36:39,057
So, when we get back to New Brunswick,
757
00:36:39,058 --> 00:36:40,459
we're high-fiving each other.
758
00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:41,550
We're now on a high.
759
00:36:41,551 --> 00:36:43,650
We thought: "We finally got
the evidence that we need
760
00:36:43,651 --> 00:36:45,175
to get this before the courts".
761
00:36:45,176 --> 00:36:47,333
So we sit down with
the crown prosecutor.
762
00:36:47,334 --> 00:36:49,157
The crown tells me, specifically:
763
00:36:49,158 --> 00:36:51,025
"Gerry, you gotta understand.
764
00:36:51,538 --> 00:36:54,540
We're at a balance of probability of 49%
765
00:36:54,541 --> 00:36:56,409
on this double homicide.
766
00:36:56,410 --> 00:36:59,879
If you can get me to 51%,
I'll approve the charge".
767
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,902
And I looked at that crown prosecutor,
768
00:37:01,903 --> 00:37:04,308
sure as I'm looking at you
today, and I'm saying:
769
00:37:04,309 --> 00:37:07,153
"What kind of language is that?
770
00:37:07,154 --> 00:37:08,354
Explain to me..."
771
00:37:08,355 --> 00:37:09,622
I said: "Never mind.
772
00:37:09,623 --> 00:37:14,026
"Explain to Larry, explain
to the son's father,
773
00:37:14,027 --> 00:37:17,050
what you mean when you talk
about a balance of probabilities
774
00:37:17,051 --> 00:37:19,240
at 51% versus 49%,
775
00:37:19,241 --> 00:37:20,865
and we're at 49%.
776
00:37:20,866 --> 00:37:22,833
Explain that one to me".
777
00:37:25,372 --> 00:37:28,641
He strangled my son. He killed my son.
778
00:37:28,642 --> 00:37:29,983
You know he did it.
779
00:37:29,984 --> 00:37:31,841
He knows he did it. They know he did it.
780
00:37:31,842 --> 00:37:34,400
They do. But we only
get one shot at this.
781
00:37:34,401 --> 00:37:37,168
And if we try to prosecute,
he gets away with it.
782
00:37:39,586 --> 00:37:41,052
He already did.
783
00:37:45,058 --> 00:37:47,795
Talk about frustration!
Talk about being upset!
784
00:37:47,796 --> 00:37:48,986
Talk about a dark day.
785
00:37:48,987 --> 00:37:51,013
I didn't have a good
day when I went home.
786
00:37:51,014 --> 00:37:52,080
It was not a good day.
787
00:37:52,866 --> 00:37:55,901
Yes, I was disappointed.
Yes, I was frustrated.
788
00:37:57,271 --> 00:37:58,870
I had to suck it up.
789
00:38:02,676 --> 00:38:06,144
To lay a charge of double homicide,
790
00:38:06,145 --> 00:38:09,615
we had to get the DNA on the pantyhose
791
00:38:09,616 --> 00:38:12,218
to match Ray White's DNA.
792
00:38:12,219 --> 00:38:17,223
Unless technology allows to
separate those two DNA samples,
793
00:38:17,224 --> 00:38:19,758
not much more I can do.
794
00:38:21,228 --> 00:38:25,031
2009, I had a member
come onto unit, Greg Lockson.
795
00:38:25,032 --> 00:38:26,966
This member was a sharp cookie.
796
00:38:26,967 --> 00:38:28,400
Greg took the file,
797
00:38:28,401 --> 00:38:30,481
checked all those things out again
798
00:38:30,482 --> 00:38:32,972
and resubmitted the exhibit.
799
00:38:32,973 --> 00:38:36,976
Except now, we're dealing, in 2009,
800
00:38:36,977 --> 00:38:38,877
with a new technology.
801
00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:43,474
And this technology was
able to separate the male DNA
802
00:38:43,475 --> 00:38:45,651
completely away from the female DNA
803
00:38:45,652 --> 00:38:48,040
that we knew was Mary Lou
Barnes and put that aside.
804
00:38:48,041 --> 00:38:50,041
"And let's work on this component".
805
00:38:54,647 --> 00:38:55,770
Yep?
806
00:38:55,771 --> 00:38:57,811
When I got the call from the lab...
807
00:38:59,733 --> 00:39:02,001
He said: "Gerry, are you sitting down?
808
00:39:02,002 --> 00:39:06,505
We got him. You got him".
809
00:39:07,807 --> 00:39:09,741
And I said: "Ray?"
810
00:39:09,742 --> 00:39:12,612
He said: "Yeah, you got him. We got him.
811
00:39:12,613 --> 00:39:14,347
I just got the test back.
812
00:39:14,348 --> 00:39:16,248
We're taking him down".
813
00:39:21,178 --> 00:39:22,377
It was like...
814
00:39:23,499 --> 00:39:26,858
"Wow! There is a God!
815
00:39:26,859 --> 00:39:28,992
There is a God!"
816
00:39:34,367 --> 00:39:37,503
Gerry, what are you doing?
817
00:39:37,504 --> 00:39:39,104
We got him.
818
00:39:39,105 --> 00:39:41,562
And Larry was stunned.
819
00:39:41,563 --> 00:39:44,677
He said: "Oh, I don't get
it, Gerry. What changed?"
820
00:39:44,678 --> 00:39:46,912
I said: "Technology changed, Larry".
821
00:39:46,913 --> 00:39:49,115
And I said: "We got the bastard".
822
00:39:49,116 --> 00:39:50,850
I said: "We got him.
823
00:39:50,851 --> 00:39:52,464
We're going to court".
824
00:39:52,465 --> 00:39:54,170
We got the son of a bitch.
825
00:39:54,171 --> 00:39:55,171
We got him!
826
00:39:57,256 --> 00:39:58,858
We got him!
827
00:40:06,015 --> 00:40:07,295
Thank you.
828
00:40:12,606 --> 00:40:14,073
Yes!
829
00:40:14,074 --> 00:40:17,077
A moment of pure joy
830
00:40:17,078 --> 00:40:19,168
after years of sadness.
831
00:40:19,169 --> 00:40:22,158
Larry Mills Sr., his family and friends
832
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:23,749
were in court for the sentencing
833
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:26,667
of 65-year-old Raymond Joseph White.
834
00:40:26,668 --> 00:40:29,554
The judge sentenced
White to life in prison
835
00:40:29,555 --> 00:40:31,757
with no chance of parole for 15 years.
836
00:40:31,758 --> 00:40:34,026
You never get over it.
837
00:40:34,027 --> 00:40:36,583
You know? I have to live with
this for the rest of my life.
838
00:40:36,584 --> 00:40:40,699
I've beat myself up time
and time and time again.
839
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:44,036
Mills Sr. credits the RCMP
for solving the murders.
840
00:40:44,037 --> 00:40:45,666
Staff Sergeant Gerry Belliveau
841
00:40:45,667 --> 00:40:48,107
worked on the case for 13 years.
842
00:40:48,108 --> 00:40:51,073
Regardless if the "why"
can never be answered,
843
00:40:51,074 --> 00:40:52,297
justice was served.
844
00:40:52,298 --> 00:40:55,545
The right person will pay for the crimes
845
00:40:55,546 --> 00:40:56,649
that that person committed.
846
00:40:56,650 --> 00:41:00,585
Mills Sr. says a weight has
been lifted off his shoulders.
847
00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:02,788
I'm just glad it's over.
848
00:41:02,789 --> 00:41:07,101
Finally, we can let Larry
and Mary rest in peace.
849
00:41:07,102 --> 00:41:09,010
The two victims were killed in a house
850
00:41:09,011 --> 00:41:10,768
that used to sit on this spot.
851
00:41:10,769 --> 00:41:12,260
After their deaths,
852
00:41:12,261 --> 00:41:15,801
the boy's father planted two
cedar trees in their memory.
853
00:41:15,802 --> 00:41:18,871
And it's here where Larry
Mills Sr. came today
854
00:41:18,872 --> 00:41:22,074
to gather himself and to lay flowers:
855
00:41:22,075 --> 00:41:24,410
red roses for his former wife,
856
00:41:24,411 --> 00:41:26,612
white roses for his son.
857
00:41:26,613 --> 00:41:29,415
And I had my own 10-minute chat
858
00:41:29,416 --> 00:41:31,049
with Mary Lou and Junior.
859
00:41:34,821 --> 00:41:36,155
I said...
860
00:41:36,156 --> 00:41:38,323
I said: "Mary Lou...
861
00:41:41,294 --> 00:41:43,829
you don't know me".
862
00:41:45,298 --> 00:41:48,033
I said: "My name's Gerry Belliveau.
863
00:41:48,034 --> 00:41:51,269
And I said: "I was there
that day you passed away".
864
00:41:52,572 --> 00:41:54,707
And I said: "I worked for you.
865
00:41:54,708 --> 00:41:57,643
And I worked for your ex.
And I worked for Junior.
866
00:41:57,644 --> 00:42:02,248
And I want you to know that
we worked hard on your behalf,
867
00:42:02,249 --> 00:42:04,116
and you can rest in peace".
868
00:42:04,117 --> 00:42:07,453
And I said: "Larry Jr.,
my name is Gerry Belliveau.
869
00:42:07,454 --> 00:42:09,121
And you can rest in peace.
870
00:42:09,122 --> 00:42:11,207
And your father is doing okay.
871
00:42:11,208 --> 00:42:13,125
He's gonna be all right.
872
00:42:13,126 --> 00:42:14,993
That's all I have to say".
873
00:42:16,327 --> 00:42:22,757
_
874
00:42:23,375 --> 00:42:29,575
_
875
00:42:30,277 --> 00:42:32,810
- Synced and corrected by Firefly -
- www.addic7ed.com -
876
00:42:35,230 --> 00:42:40,060
_
877
00:42:42,187 --> 00:42:48,657
_
878
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:57,380
_
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