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("On hold" music)

Thank you for calling
Donor [inaudible].

Hi. My name is Jennifer.
How may I help you?

Hi, my name is Julia,

and I have 14 frozen eggs
in a cryobank that I would like

to donate to somebody
who might try to use them.

Do you guys do
that sort of thing?

Hey Julia, that is
super generous of you.

But, you know,

we actually do not take
donated eggs in that way.

The eggs that are donated to us,

the donors have to go take
all the testing and have the

retrieval done at
our partner clinic.

Okay, thanks for your help.

(Gentle music)

All right, Julia,
have a good day.

You too.

I had frozen my
eggs 10 years earlier.

Egg freezing was definitely
a strange experience.

After all the doctor's visits
and tests and injections,

I went under and when I woke up,

they said they
harvested 14 eggs.

But I've never seen them.

I don't even know
where the cryobank is.

And of course, if
you want to use them,

you don't know
if they will work.

Except I know I won't use them.

(Car door closes)

I have no children and
I will not be having any.

(Rumble of car driving away)

I have tons of
reasons for why not,

the biggest being financial.

(Bell ring sound)

I also didn't meet my
partner till I was 40.

(Sliding surface sound)

And my experience with
my family, made me reluctant

to start my own.

Women are meant
to have kids, right?

I mean, it's how we keep
the human race going.

So as I tried to figure out
what the hell's wrong with me,

I started talking
to other women.

(Phone ringing)

Turns out their reasons for not

(Popping sounds)

having kids are
as varied as mine.

(Click sound)

Some of us never wanted them.

Others would have had kids if

things had worked
out differently.

Probably myself included.

(Doors open and close)

And we're much more normal,

or at least more
numerous than I thought.

(Gentle music continues)

I've always wanted children.

I don't remember
ever wanting children.

I always assumed
I would have them.

I wanted children growing up.

I wanted to have them young.

I can't remember at any
age ever thinking, gosh,

I'd really like to have a kid.

I didn't actually even
want to get married.

Growing up didn't...
really want kids.

I was 16 when I started thinking
about not having children.

The birth rates all over the
world have been dropping.

And this comes generally
with development.

When people no
longer require for

their livelihood to have lots of

children, such as,
if you become an urban society,

(Traffic sounds)

you're much less likely to
have lots and lots of kids.

And then the other thing
is that since antibiotics and...

(High pitched sound)

vaccines have made the
child death rate go down,

you didn't have to have so

many children to have a few

survive into adulthood.

And with good access to birth

control, in the 20th century,

we've seen all over the

world birth rates dropping.

It's good news, right?

In the US,

we had a fairly high birth rate

for a developed country,

up until the 70s.

And then it started to drop.

More recently,

it is at a historic low.

So it all started when I

received the
annual bill from the

(Key turning)

cryobank for storage of the
eggs, and decided not to renew.

Studies suggest that 85 to 90
percent of women who freeze eggs

(Sliding paper out of envelope)

for later do not
return to use them.

Seems wasteful to me,

especially with
so many infertile

people out there
seeking egg donors.

So I began exploring, whether I
can give my eggs to someone.

My other options
would be to trash them,

(Clicking of mouse)

or donate them to science.

So when we look
at fertility in the US,

right now it's around
1.65 kids per woman

if birth rates remain
stable at their current levels.

We have to ask,
is that what people want?

Are birth rates what they
are because people really,

really want 1.6 kids?

And the answer is no,

this is not what people
want on average.

When you survey women
in the US, concretely,

You know, concretely

how many children realistically
do you really intend to have?

And the answer that
women tend to give in the US

and also in most other
industrialized countries

is between 2 and 2.2.

(High five slap)

So women intends to have,
about two or a little more than

two kids and yet
end up with 1.6.

(Soft squeak)

So when that is so widespread,

when that gap is half
a child per woman,

which is a way of saying every
other woman is missing a child

(Pop sound)

that demands explanation.

(Gentle music)

How old were you when you
decided not to have children?

How did that
decision come about?

I did a lot of
babysitting growing up.

I worked at a camp.
I worked at a daycare.

And I know very intimately what
is involved in rearing a child.

I knew that it
took a lot of work,

and originally I was up
for it, and I wanted kids,

I wanted three girls,

and for me it was more of
an evolution where, the scales

were tipping in
the other direction.

Things like climate change
made me more scared about

whether I wanted to bring
the child into the world,

but there was never one

particular point
where I was like,

nope, that's it,
I'm not having kids.

I grew up in Haiti
up until I was 16

and then moved to the States.

I've seen what the future
would be like for any child that

were to live in Haiti and...
what that would look like.

And I decided that that's not

something I would
want for my offspring.

And then I moved here, and I
saw that black bodies weren't

treated any better here.

So I wouldn't want to
have kids here either.

Every time I see,
situations like Tamir Rice's,

Breonna Taylor's, Atatiana
Jefferson, and what their moms',

what their moms' feel like,
more than anything,

and the inability
to move forward.

Trayvon Martin, until today,

that is probably one of the
cases that affect me the most

because when I see Sybrina,

I can always feel that she
feels like a part of her is

missing and that part
will be missing forever.

And that kind of pain,
I never want to experience that.

And I'm not saying that if I
were to have kids tomorrow,

something like this would
have happened to them.

I just do not ever want to
know what that feels like.

And I rather, go about my life
without ever experiencing that.

I don't want it.

I am an AFAB person: assigned
female at birth, non-binary.

That's how I identify
gender-wise, and sexuality,

I would say I'm queer.

Yeah, I'm also an AFAB
non-binary individual,

and I also identify as queer.

I think when I was younger,

a lot of my friends
would talk about it,

and I definitely felt like,

yeah, like, that's
what we do, right?

Women have babies,
and there was play around that,

but I think that I never
felt super tied to it,

and then when I came
out as queer in high school,

and then
subsequently since that,

it's changed a lot
in terms of, like,

Oh, I recognize that that is,
something in the world,

and maybe not necessarily
something for me.

I don't remember ever
wanting children.

I always assumed
I would have them.

It just felt like this...

It just felt inevitable to me,

the idea of having children.

Like the same way
I feel about death.

It was just something,
I couldn't stop,

I'd have to make peace with.

I remember a pregnancy scare.

A couple of years maybe,

maybe not, maybe a
year after we got married,

and being shocked
by the feeling that I had:

dread...

(Sad piano)

horror...

the deepest sadness that I
can really remember feeling at

the prospect that I
could be pregnant.

And that was shocking to me.

And that's probably when it
became clear to me that this

wasn't a done deal.

This wasn't something that,
I was going to be happy to do or

happy to do or do at all.

And maybe there
was another option.

One donor program that
said they don't use previously

frozen eggs, suggested I
try an app created specifically

for connecting people
who want to make a baby.

It can help you
find a co-parent,

a sperm donor, surrogate,

or egg donor.

Bingo.

(Phone notification)

Within 10 minutes,
I had my first like.

(Quirky music)

It was from a man
who was offering sperm.

Ash, 24, just wants to
help someone start a family.

That's nice, but I'm not
looking to start a family.

So, clearly Ash
hadn't read my profile.

(Phone notification)

Simon, 34, would like to donate
sperm to a lesbian couple.

(Quirky music continues)

However, I'm not a lesbian
couple, nor am I seeking sperm.

(Phone notification)

Roger, 40, claims to have
had 10 successful donations.

He's scheduled a
vasectomy in two months,

so anyone who still wants
his sperm needs to act fast.

(Phone notification)

Lucian, 40, a science tech
founder from Copenhagen,

claims to have scored
a 144 IQ on the SATs,

a test that does not measure IQ.

(Phone notification)

Joseph, 27, has had
three successful donations.

He's offering AI / PI / NI.

I had to Google that.

AI is artificial insemination.

PI is partial insemination,

wherein a man masturbates
until near completion and then

ejaculates into the woman.

NI is natural insemination,
or good old fashioned sex.

Within a day,

there were dozens of men
who wanted to offer me sperm.

So when I was a kid,

I remember telling the other
most high achieving student

in my class, that I didn't
want to have children.

And she said to me, well, then
what is the point of living?

And I was just so confused.

I said, well, I don't know,

I might discover a cure for
cancer and affect millions of

people in the world.

Why is having children the
only way that, living matters?

To me, it's not a
very effective way

of making an impact...
to have children.

And maybe that's because
when you have a child,

you get what you get.

You might have a child
who's talented and intelligent,

or you might have a child
who's difficult and uninterested

in anything.

You never know.

So in a way,

the students I teach are
selected for being the people

maybe who most need
my kind of influence,

because they're super interested
in equations and also in

changing the world.

So, those are the people
that I want to work with.

(Whooshing)

I ended up meeting somebody
who I cared very deeply for,

who was not Mormon,

and that was not okay
within my Mormon community.

Mormons believe that...

So in a life after death,

which is not unique
to Mormonism, but,

that you have an eternal family.

So if you are not married to
somebody who is Mormon and

have children in that Mormon
union, in a Mormon temple,

then when you die, you are
separated from your family.

So that became a big
issue with people around me.

But wait a minute, so if you got
married and then you had kids,

you would not be able to be
with your children for forever.

And how devastating
that would be.

And that was really when
things started to crack for me.

And I remember him saying,

if this was just about
you and me, it'd be great,

but we both want children,

and I don't want my kids
raised Mormon, and you do.

And I remember saying to him,
I don't know any other way.

And I have a list of reasons,
that I would want to have a kid.

And they are all bad
reasons for having a kid.

I wanted someone to name
after my great-aunt, Esther

with whom I was very close.

I wanted to make birth

announcements,
because I love paper.

(Swishing sound)

I wanted someone to take
care of me when I get old.

(Wheels rotating)

All of these things,
were things that were about me.

I also, I realized,
I'm like, well,

if I wanted to raise a kid
and I wanted to be selfless

about it, I would adopt
a kid that already exists,

because there are plenty of kids
in this world who need families.

I'm like, but you know,

if it doesn't look like me
and it's not related to me,

do I want to put that
much effort into it?

I'm like...okay,

there's another strike
against having a kid,

because that is bad.

That is all about me wanting
to procreate for my own good,

which I think is a lot of the
reason that people do that.

And I realized, you know,
I don't really like them.

And I worked with
someone who said to me,

oh, I don't like other
people's children.

I like my children.

(Babies crying)

Well, okay.

I'm hoping that if I do have
a kid, I would like them.

(Hard rock music)

But maybe I wouldn't

You know, my husband's
family, didn't like him.

And...

I'm very involved in gay
and lesbian civil rights

issues, because I
have a gay brother,

and I have seen

how horrible people can
be to their own children.

And it made me realize that not
all parents love their children.

I actually wanted to ask
whether you remembered...at what

point I made that decision
because I remember that, my

relationship with Bill, who was

A very... horrible, horrible
abusive relationship.

I remember that we
talked about having a son

and naming him Batman.

Oh, yes, I recall.

So, at some point in there,
it happened, and...

I don't remember when.

I didn't think that you and
Bill were actually talking

about a real human child that
you had ever named Batman.

And so I thought that
you never wanted kids.

That, like, you
knew what it was like.

You had a toddler at home.

(Gentle piano)

I did have a toddler at home.

I was an only child until age 14

when my mom married this man.

And when I was 16,
they had a son.

And I was so excited about it.

She would read "What to
Expect When You're Expecting,"

when she was expecting,
and then pass it on to me.

And then I would read it.

(Playing games with baby)

And I was super hands-on
with the colics and the feeding

and the diapers and the
baby books and everything.

He definitely did
not feel like a sibling.

(Gentle piano continues)

He felt very much like a child.

(Indistinct)

How old are you?

Four.

Who is your favorite sister?

Julia.

What my experience with my
brother was is that I feel like

I had the heartbreak,
of half raising a child and then

having him turn out,
in a way that,

I don't know how to put this.

There's nothing there.

There's no,

I have no relationship with
him because he doesn't respond

to a single text
or a single email.

I feel like, he's somebody
who will not hold my hand

when I'm dying.

But I will say that
Maurice is...26.

Do you know what I
was doing when I was 26?

Holding lots of dying people's
hands is what I was doing.

But you grew up in very
different environments and so

there's still a lot of
living left and a lot of

relationship building left,

but what I'll say though is
that you left the house when

Maurice was a toddler and
so you raised him for these very

formative years for you,
but he has no memory of that.

I reached out to about a dozen
freeze-and-share programs

and multiple Facebook
IVF and egg donor groups.

Most said no,

they're not interested in
previously frozen eggs,

but a couple said okay, and had
me fill out onboarding forms.

These are long, long forms,

longer than any dating
profile or grant application.

What is your height,
current weight?

How would you describe
your complexion?

Natural eye color,
texture of your hair?

What's your natural hair color?

Not this.

Highest level of
education, degree earned?

Tell us about your career.

List any professional, academic,

athletic or creative
achievements.

Have you completed or are
you currently involved in any

volunteer work?

Do you play any
musical instruments?

What languages do you speak?

(Brush strokes)

What subject did
you enjoy in school?

Name some of your hobbies.

(Ball bounce thuds)

What are your short-term
and long-term goals in life?

What would you consider
your greatest strengths?

What would you
do on a perfect day?

(Dog barks)

How would you
consider your vision?

Dental braces or
orthodontic work?

Do you have any allergies?

Surgeries?

Have you ever had any
problems with the law?

Within 12 months
of freezing your eggs,

did you have any
ear or body piercings,

acupuncture or tattoos?

If you're planning a dinner
and could invite any three

people, living or dead,
who would they be and why?

Five childhood photos and photos
at the time that you froze

the egg, so here we go.

Nice little dating profile here.

Do you have any Jewish ancestry?

Oh yes, I do.

Father's ethnic background.

Now I have to say
how tall everybody was.

Age and cause of
death of everybody.

(She gasps)

Okay, metabolic, endocrine,
birth defects, cancer.

This is anybody in my family.

Neurological, mental
health issues, acne.

Everybody has acne!

But acne aside,

my mom's parents both had
dementia and colon cancer.

My paternal
grandmother had diabetes.

My father was an alcoholic.

Oh, and me?

I'm on antidepressants.

And most freeze-and-share
programs want three generations

of squeaky clean
medical history.

(Gentle percussive music)

I hear people say a lot,
you know, that as you get,

when you get older,

you're gonna reach a certain
age and the hormones will kick

in and suddenly you'll
realize you want children.

Or, you know, when you're early
30s and you have a partner,

you'll realize
you want children.

It'll feel natural,
it'll feel like the next step.

I thought, okay, I'm gonna
cap that at around age 35.

So I wanna get married
at like age, you know,

32 maximum, so that
we have these three years

to enjoy other
before I have children.

Which means, you know,

I probably wanna date for a
couple of years before that,

so I have to start
dating him last year.

So I was so stressed
about, you know,

inching forward this
timeline and that's just,

that's a lot of,
pressure on a first date.

A biological clock is a
real goddamn thing, like,

and especially in my 30s,

the thing was ticking loudly
and making me feel things that

I hadn't felt.

So even though when
I was 12 and I was like,

I don't think I'm doing that,
and then in my 20s, I'm like,

probably not doing that,
I'm not interested in that.

Suddenly I'm in my 30s,

and literally there's this
going out of business sale

happening in my
body that's still

in the process of happening.

And I'm starting to have
seeing babies and being like,

should I do that?

Do I want to do that?

And then, you know,

the interpersonal problem
of feeling like someone is

wasting your time
is compounded by,

you're really wasting
my fucking time, mate.

So when I was 24 and
I was living in Boston,

I lived with two women
who were older than me.

And one of my roommates said,

you need to find
a husband today.

You're only 24, all these
guys wanna go out with you.

You wanna get married,
this is your chance.

Because as you get older,

there aren't as many men
even because then they've paired

off and gotten married.

And I remember so clearly
having the distinct thought that

that was not going
to happen to me.

And then she was totally
right because as I got older,

there were a lot fewer
men to choose from.

I feel like then being
single and childfree starts to

naturally happen because
the dating pool and who's

available for you just continues
to shrink year after year.

And then you get into men who,

who the first time
a man said to me,

I don't believe in monogamy,
was the most shocking statement

I had ever heard.

But it's true, they start
to become very, well,

there's just so many women,

I don't need to even be
monogamous anymore, so.

For the past 30
years or so in the US,

and in most Western countries,

we've seen approximately
one-third more women than men

attend college and then
graduate from college.

And what's happened is
this college gender gap,

so to speak,

has been spilling over into
the post-college dating world.

And this wouldn't
matter, obviously,

if we were all more open-minded
about whom we date and

eventually marry,

but college grads wanna date
and marry other college grads.

So what we've ended up with
is kind of a blue-collar dating

pool with too many men,

and a white-collar dating
pool with too many women.

And...dating apps have kind of
exacerbated or worsened the

dating problem.

Your dating app is making
its money off two things,

subscription revenues
and advertising.

And it's in their financial
interest, to maintain their

existing subscriber base
and attract new people.

(Phone notifications)

Bumble says in their annual
report, that their revenue and

growth, may be harmed, quote,

“if there is a decrease in
user retention as a result of

users finding meaningful

relationships on
our platforms and

no longer needing to
engage with our products."

So what they're telling you
very directly, is their goal is

to retain you as a customer,
and keep you as a customer for

as long as possible,

not to find you the right

relationship and
never see you again.

Lack of a partner is actually
the main reason women

self-report for being childless.

(Gentle piano)

Obviously, there are single
moms out there, but for me,

probably having found my partner
at 40 had a lot to do with it.

I mean, had we met at 25,

maybe we'd be so bored
with one another by 35,

we would have had some kids.

Or maybe I would have had
time to learn how to feel safe,

enough.

(Gentle piano continues)

Through two different sources,

I matched with a couple in
Michigan, and another one

in New York City, who were
kind of interested in my eggs.

So I got this email.

It says,
"Thanks for reaching out...

I have done 18 of
my own egg retrievals,

the first of which resulted
in my son, and 17 more,

which got me nowhere.

Then I moved on to donor
eggs and have had four transfers

of healthy embryos.

One didn't stick,
two were chemical,

and the last one
was promising until

eleven-and-a-half weeks

when the heartbeat stopped."

(Tender music)

Geez.

(Phone ringing)

I also called up an old
college friend named Haile.

Haile and his partner Leticia
had just blown through their

remaining embryos, and were
starting to seek an egg donor.

(Gentle piano)

Hearing about all these
women's trials with IVF,

made me wonder...

If they are willing to
undergo physical and mental

torture, for something I'm just

willing to cast
by the wayside...

Maybe I don't have
that maternal gene.

Maybe I was never meant to
be or capable of being a mother.

(Gentle piano continues)

Meanwhile,

my mother learned about the
interviews I was conducting.

So she volunteered herself,
to represent the point of view

of women who have had children.

I just wanted to present
an opposite point of view.

So because I believe everybody
you were going to interview,

they have,

they don't have children and
their point of view, that it's

like obstacle in their lives
and it's not necessary.

And I just want to say that
it's the best feeling, I ever

had in my life.

(Deep inhale)

And not just the bond that
you have with your children,

when you deliver your children,

and then not just
the physical bond,

but that is something....

It's just such a pleasure,
such a sense of happiness.

Okay.

I've never seen you to

experience this
happiness, but...

How, how could you see?

I know, you do it secretly.

And you cannot, experience it,
unless you have it.

(Gentle percussive music)

Another thing, as
well, is, like, my own

mental health and my own

viability of, like, how I
feel about myself in my own

consciousness, and how,
sad that is sometimes.

And how just

hard that is and how
much, therapy, you know,

I'm working through on a
very small individual level.

And conceptualizing that I would
give birth to like another

young person who might
suffer the same, self-hate would

break my heart, I think.

And I see my mom,
like, watching me struggle

and it breaks her heart.

And I don't know, there's
something really sad about that.

(She laughs)

But in a way that like, I am
not in the place now to I think

knowingly what it's like to
live inside a brain and the

other people that I talk
to living inside their brains,

creating another one,
feels laden, with a lot more

than just,
“I want a baby" type of thing.

Yeah.

I didn't even want to
get married because my

my dad wasn't great.

There was abuse, like my
dad physically abused my mom,

emotional abuse.

Me and my mom
got the brunt of it.

(Sad piano)

So, once I met my husband,

I kind of thought
about having kids,

but I was still on the fence.

Went to the doctor. They
gave me an ultrasound.

Literally, like,
pearls in my ovaries.

(Piano continues)

So, PCOS is polycystic
ovarian syndrome.

Doctor did say that most
people can have children with

PCOS, but it can be difficult.

But then at that point,

I just didn't think
it was a good idea

because I have bipolar.

And...

It would have
been fine, except...

I had three suicide attempts.

(Piano continues)

So the medications that I'm on,

I would have to completely
get off to get pregnant.

And that's one of the
reasons why the reproductive

endocrinologist said,

I may never, be able to
have a child for that reason.

She said, you may be
able to have it physically,

but at some point,

if we determine that you're
not only a harm to yourself,

but harm to the fetus...

then can't go forward.

And I am also very afraid of,
passing that along, to a child.

(Piano continues)

It wasn't until
around the age of 35,

and it really
didn't have to deal

with any boyfriend or anything,

but I started to
become really sick.

And that led, to me discovering
that I had fibroids for the

first time.

Then it was also coupled
with the realization,

because unfortunately, my...

one of my younger
sisters has a drug problem.

(Deep rumble)

And realizing that I
couldn't take her kids in

based on my finances.

So I have fibroids, ovarian
cysts, and endometriosis.

Fibroids is the most
common type of situation

among African-American women.

And it's what's called a

multifactorial,
kind of situation.

Unfortunately, when it comes
to women's reproductive health,

we don't know because
there's not enough research.

And especially
among women of color,

there's no research there,

and there's a fear left over
from past medical atrocities

that there's not a lot of trust,
inside the medical community.

I have to go to a clinic
rather than a regular doctor,

and then because it's a clinic,

I could just be switched
to a different doctor,

and I have to start
my story all over again.

And then when we finally
decide what the hell, type of

treatment we need to do,
or what the next step is,

my insurance may not cover it.

(Gentle piano)

Healthcare was the main obstacle
for me at the time that I was

thinking about having a kid.

Neither me nor my spouse

had health insurance
through our jobs.

So we were paying
for a catastrophic

plan that didn't cover much.

And it didn't cover childbirth.

So I would have had to have
bought a rider on my insurance

to get to even be
covered just for the birth.

Never mind any care
that the child would need.

And so that was
just really scary.

I also had insurance
that excluded anything any

pre-existing condition and
that included anything in my

reproductive tract.

So, essentially I
had no insurance.

(Gentle percussive music)

I have been pregnant once.

It's a complicated
thing to say because

it was an ectopic pregnancy
due to a failure of my IUD.

(Intriguing piano)

I wound up in the
emergency room,

(Ambulance siren)

and then there was this

weird window when
they were like, well,

(Piano continues)

you could be pregnant
in the wrong place.

You could be pregnant
in the right place.

You could be pregnant in the
wrong place and it might move

to the right place.

So there was this weird
little amount of time in which I

was sitting there going,

if this winds up being a

pregnancy that
goes into my uterus

and settles there...

Fuck.

And then fortunately it
wasn't happening and my body

dealt with it, but...

You know, when I was sitting
there in that emergency room,

I was just like,

I didn't work
this hard to get to

this place in my life to, like,

pull over to the side of
the road and have a family.

And there was still some
heartbreak about kind of like,

Oh, you know, and this
is with my current partner,

like I really love this person
and there's a whole other

timeline in which
we have a kid and

I can see it and it's beautiful.

And that's not the
timeline I live in. You know?

(Piano continues)

When I was 29...

I was very much in
love and got pregnant,

but I didn't have my green card.

I was stuck in a
legal proceeding.

So here I am, I get pregnant,

and my American boyfriend
at the time, I'm like, you know,

it would be so much
easier if we get married,

because like I at least will
feel like I'm not, you know...

And what happens when
you're on a work visa...

If they fire you,

you literally have 10
days to leave the country.

And he just had like a block.

He would not do it.

It was, you know,

weeks and weeks of
trying to negotiate with him.

And he was like, oh,
I'm ready to be a father.

I'm not ready to be, but I'm
not ready to be a husband.

And I was of
course in hysterics,

because that was
my worst dream ever.

You know, I am alone in the
streets and I'm an immigrant.

You know, I had
all these visions

of my worst case scenario.

It’s like it triggered
something so like primal in me.

And then I had a miscarriage.

Which was like, I was like,

okay, you know,
no wonder, you know,

because deep down on me,
I was like, please God,

let me not have this child.

Because I'm not like,
I'm not, I cannot do this.

Like emotionally,
I cannot do it.

So of course, you know,

I go to film school years pass
and I meet someone wonderful

and we date and we get married.

And, suddenly I am in
this game of like, oh,

(Clapperboard snap)

but I want to make
my first feature.

You know, and I hear
all these stories like, yes,

you have children,

you will never be able
to make it as a filmmaker.

So I spend a few
years on putting

together my first feature.

And here I am, I turn 40,
and I go for my annual checkup.

And I'm like, you know,

and I've been trying maybe
for two months, three months.

And a doctor tells me, you know,

statistically you
don't have good eggs.

So it's just like, you know,

the career cycle
is a bit misaligned.

But a month ago, I did go for
it and I did do an IVF cycle.

So I really hope that I
am pregnant right now.

I want to have like a
life outside of just being

a stay-at-home mom.

And I'm terrified that
if I had children now,

that I could just
kiss that goodbye.

Like, my husband has
a very demanding job

where he works
really long hours.

If I had children, all the
caretaking would fall to me.

He wouldn't really be able to
help that much just because

of how demanding his job is.

Nannies are very expensive.

Like I used to be one.

So like if we have a kid,

how do we do this, without
it then derailing any career

aspirations that I have,

especially one of the
point where I'm just barely...

getting started?

When we think about women
undershooting their fertility

desires, that begs
the question, why?

Why does this happen?

Besides financial,
barriers themselves,

children are also
changing in terms of,

the function they
serve for parents.

In the past, you got married.

(Whimsical music)

That made you an adult
independent from your parents.

You had kids.

That sort of shows you're
respectable and stable.

That isn't so much
the case anymore.

Now they are a capstone.

Children are the sign
that you have succeeded.

You've stabilized
yourself financially.

You've found the partner.

You've got your forever home.

You've done all these things.

And now you can crown
these accomplishments with the

ultimate symbol,
status symbol, if you will,

this extremely expensive,
long-term project of

the ideal child.

People hit their
peak income later,

which means they reach the
point where they think they can

foot the bill for that expensive
child, much later in life.

All these things feed together,
to create a kind of perfect

storm for parents where,
they feel like, there's kind of

no way out other than not having
the family that they want.

Julia, can I ask you a
very personal question?

Where are you in your journey?

Are you seeking to,
have children at all?

No.

For various reasons.

I ultimately feel
I can't afford it.

And then both partner and
I raised babies and toddlers

when we were teenagers.

And then my own childhood
wasn't really like the best.

So I never, you know, like, felt
a strong pull to motherhood.

Well, you know, Julia,
ultimately, thank you for even,

like, considering us.

When Haile told me, I cried.

You know, it's, it's such a deep

generous gift.

So...

Thank you.

And you know, Haile's,
I'm sure Hailey's told you

we've done seven rounds
of IVF, and two miscarriages,

and two failed rounds
of IVF. Like, it’s just...

You know, we've,
we've had our...

We've tried.
We've tried really hard.

Yeah.

Okay, so where
would we go from here?

Cause it's one thing that
they're available now and that

you know me, which
are both good things,

but then there are

negative factors, like they
were frozen a while back

and I was already not

very young when
I froze them, so...

Do you need to weigh these
things or are you decided?

Every step of the process
is a gamble, you know.

There's no guarantees,
so I say let's try.

Yeah, let's do it.
Okay?

Zoom handshake?

(He grunts)

(Gentle percussive music)

In my 30s, my physician and I,

we did have a conversation
around the option

of freezing my eggs.

And I had considered it.

And uhm...

I opted not to do it.

And the reason was because

(Gentle piano)

at the time I wasn't
partnered with anybody.

And I just remember thinking,

I don't know
that I ever will be.

And the thought of

not being able to conceive
because I wasn’t partnered...

There was just something
about I thought it would add an

extra layer of pain that I
just didn't want to go through.

Now, sitting on
the other side of it,

(Piano continues)

I wish that I
would have done it.

I never considered
freezing my eggs because

I didn’t have the money.

(Laughing)

Like I didn't have the money
to during the time in which it

would have made
sense to freeze the eggs.

You know what I mean?

So yeah,

I just didn't really...freezing
one's eggs in my head was

like, oh yes, you have to
have disposable income for that.

And that's something that
like only just happened.

(Chuckles)

So, yeah.

I will tell you the story about,
when I froze my eggs.

This was a few years ago,
maybe, I wanna say three,

four years ago, when
my insurance started

covering this sort of thing.

And so I was like, all
right, let's freeze them.

I haven't been taking care
of my body for like years.

I'm finally taking
care of my body now.

What does that mean?

I mean, I'm just curious.

Unless you have like a coke
habit that you don't want to

disclose because
of legal reasons.

Like, what does that mean?

I just...

I had multiple eating
disorders growing up...and

I only started...

taking care of that recently.

I didn't even know if I
could produce, viable eggs.

A year later, they
contacted me about, well,

you owe this much
for the freezing.

So just to clarify,

your insurance was not covering
storage, additional storage?

It covered storage
for maybe a year.

Got it.

And I was like, well,

I haven't found what to
do with these in a year.

When am I going to do this?

And so what did you do?

Do you donate
them to science or?

-I donated them to science.
-Yeah.

COVID happened.

And, I started getting help,
for many of the things that are

messed up, in my life,
including, eating disorders,

the fact that I went through
trauma when my father died.

It was my, my last
year of law school.

And I lost my dad tragically.

And it really just fucked me up.
I started...

What happened?

He was...
He was...

My dad was murdered, in 2004.

And that was the
year I started working.

(Intriguing music)

And I threw myself
into this job as a lawyer.

(Doors snap shut)

And, I didn't want
to have time to think.

And that year,
I billed 3,800 hours,

which if you do the
math, it's insane.

And it means no vacation.

It means working every weekend.

And it means so
many horrible things.

(Sad piano)

That was my therapy.

Fast forward to 2020,

I started getting help
for all these things.

And I started, again,
thinking about, well, what if,

I mean, should I just see
if I could still have kids?

And I went to a doctor.

He was just honest with me.

He said, you're not
a good candidate.

And I said, you know what?

It's fine.

I just don't need this.

(Gentle percussive music)

I'm a millennial.

I have loans, just
like everybody else.

I'd like to believe that many
millennials don't buy homes

or are planning not to have
children because of how we're

affected financially
by our student loans,

which is a huge part of it.

I took out about
60,000 dollars in loans.

I paid back about 50,000,
and I still have about 20,

25,000 dollars left.

And, it's just exhausting,
to say the least.

I was so curious...

The turning point
at which you realized

that you just don't even
want to go down this path?

Is the question why?

Why did you decide
to go childfree?

The short answer is financial.

I have six-figure student debt.

I have no city health
insurance, no maternity leave,

no 401K.

Median cost of raising a
child up to the age of 18

in New York,
it's 500,000 dollars.

That's without college.

In 18 years, state college
will be 200,000 dollars.

Private college will
be 450,000 dollars.

So 500 plus 450, that's
already...wages lost, IVF...

That's a million.

I can't make...

I, it's just too much.

I can't, like, I work so
fucking hard, editing.

But if somebody would give
you a million, would you do it?

You know if I were in like
the Netherlands or Sweden or

something or France...
If I...if I had, if there was,

like, society support for
childcare and things like that?

I really don't know.

I also have like a
lot of personal shit.

Like, a lot.

Some countries have actually
made it, very comfortable to

have kids, and others haven't.

I mean, in Sweden and France,

you have good childcare systems.

(Quirky music)

You get maternity
leave or paternity leave.

They already have
guaranteed national health care.

They already have,
shorter work hours.

They already have much
bigger amounts of vacation

and sick leave.

And it really starts to look
feasible when you think about

all those things...
in the United States,

(Card sliding in reader)

We have lack of health care,

(Paper crinkles)

lack of childcare,

lack of paid leave,
long work hours.

It's actually a system that
is designed to get maximum

labor out of us without
paying for any of it.

People are saying, oh,

you want the government to
give away stuff to you for free.

No, actually,

what we want is the
government to support

the reproduction of our society.

It's not, fulfilling these
basic functions, right?

About financial thing.

Yeah.

It's not a reason
not to have, a child.

I don't consider it,
a real reason.

And, statistics show,
that, people who are poor,

they have more children,
than the other way around.

So I don't think it's
financially you feel, unsecured.

I don't know, maybe you feel...

insecure with your partner

though you say that
he's decent and nice guy.

I don't know, it's just,

you cannot, you cannot
calculate the absolutely...

It’s, life is not a spreadsheet.

So you cannot calculate...

So, do you deny that
I have to pay 300,000

back in student loans?

But, you know...

There is an inflation.

But, you know, I have
to make that money!

Right.

There is an inflation.

You will be making more
money because you keep working.

If you are...so, 300,000 dollars

it was much more
money in the 70s, or 50s or

you know, 60s, than it is now.

So if you, over-rationalize
everything in life,

put it in a spreadsheet,
it just doesn't work.

I think it also doesn't
work if you don't have the

requisite money.

It works, Yulia.

Somehow it works.

Somehow it works?

You know, your child
will not go hungry.

(Lighthearted music)

She's right.

I could quit my career,

move somewhere
with a low cost of living,

get a desk job with health
insurance, and have children.

(Baby squeals)

But I choose not to.

Maybe America with its
lack of family-friendly policies

is onto something.

Maybe it's separating
the wheat from the chaff.

Like, if you're not
willing to sacrifice,

maybe you shouldn't have kids.

(Lighthearted music continues)

(Door bell rings)

(Pretty piano)

I'm glad you're here.

Hey!

God willing, when we
have our healthy embryos,

and we transfer,

we'll put in multiples,

but so many complications
can happen.

Yeah.

No guarantees.

You know, I'm already,
because of my age, high risk,

because of the
other pregnancies.

The first trimesters
were really scary, so...

How would you feel,
you're donating, your, eggs,

your youthful eggs to us,
and say we get three embryos,

and I miscarry all three?

Like...

It’s a good question.

You know, you have,

or you had an opportunity
to donate to another couple...

You know, that's a real chance.

Yeah, you're right.

I feel like with miscarriages,

my very limited understanding
of biology that the fault is

with the embryo,
most of the time.

That's the declared statement.

The doctors feel very
confident that you can carry,

and that's good enough for me.

So if you miscarry
all three of them,

I will feel terrible for the

ordeal that you
had to go through

that both of you would
have to go through,

but it's not...

Then I know, okay...

I’m, I'm going to

err on the assumption
that would have

happened with anybody.

OK.

(Gentle percussive music)

The pressure I get
is from my, family.

When I mention
not wanting children,

I hear my mother,
say things like, it's okay,

you'll change your mind.

(Soothing piano)

Or, it's okay,
there's still time.

Like, she wants to just
keep these doors open.

She doesn't quite,

it feels like she has
not quite accepted that

how vehemently, I'm opposed
to the idea of having children.

My father, I think is just

(Piano continues)

sadly accepting it.

Sorry.

He’s...

He has cancer, and...

I think part of him
really wants to be a

grandfather before he dies.

So I feel a lot of
weight that I can't...

I can't do that.

But I think if I asked him,
he'd say, I'm enough.

So it's in their reactions
and comments to things.

It's not so much like,
oh, you better do this.

It's more like...

You know, we loved having you.

Why wouldn't you want that?

My mom is from a different time.

I can see that there
is some pain there...

that comes with acceptance.

You know, they never really
put any kind of pressure on me.

I have noticed my
mom as she's, aged,

there, have been times where
I've heard her say things like,

not I wish I had a
grandchild, but you know,

(Intriguing piano music)

she'll refer to the family
dog as, her grandson.

And she kind of gets it,

that it's just probably
not happening.

My mom is actually quite pleased
that I won't be having kids.

She is also scared about how
the world is going to end and

the challenges that my
nephews are gonna be facing

as adults. And so...

She told me maybe, 10 years
ago that she thought that

perhaps it would be best if

people our age
stopped having kids,

and, like, left it for...like,
adopted children or, you know...

Basically, like, Americans
are super wasteful and they

(Cat meows)

consume a lot of resources.

And so, like maybe Americans
shouldn't have as many kids and

you know, adopt other
children that already exist.

(Tender piano music)

I think even before I really,
started thinking about my

queerness and sexuality
and what my relationships

would look like,

a big halting factor for me
about, bringing a child into

this world in my own body,
was, kind of the fear of

where we are and where we're at.

You know, one of my first
memories is September 11th

and, then after that,

just all these different things
and I know that each generation

(Urgent music)

feels apocalyptic about
the world that they're in,

but I think that the place
that we are in, with our planet

and the sustainability
of our planet...

Even if I had a child,

my child might want a baby
and that baby will be living in

a world that I
cannot even imagine.

I think when it comes
to climate change,

I think there are stark changes
that would have to be made

right now for us to see,

for us to slow down,

what's happening and I
don't see it happening, so...

In terms of

(Tragic piano)

bringing kids into this world,

if we don't change the,
situation right now,

I don't see how they won't
be affected, by climate change.

I am from a small island,
that I would love to return to

at some point in my life.

And islands are one of
the main ones to be affected

by climate change
and if it doesn't change,

kids on Haiti will
be affected as well.

In the 60s and 70s,

there was a total
freak-out about the high

rate of population growth.

There were books like
The Population Bomb.

(Whimsical piano)

There were ideas that, you know,

hungry babies are the
grounds for communism.

This is why people
are revolting.

Now we're hearing, you know,

climate crisis
overpopulation worries.

(Gulp)

But the thing about
that is that it's not the...

it's not the absolute
number of people that is

causing the climate crisis.

It's the...

it's the fossil fuel
industry, essentially.

And, rather than blaming
people for having too many kids,

we need to euthanize
the fossil fuel industry.

And then the other, problem
with the climate crisis is

there's no way to, oh, oh,

we're gonna reduce the birth
rate even more steeply than

it's reducing now,

and that's somehow gonna fix,
the climate crisis by what?

You know, 2100?

So I think it's, in general,

the overpopulation thing is
a diversionary tactic to try to

keep people from seeing
what is actually going on.

Sometimes when we think about
low fertility, people think,

well, you know, is it
really such a problem?

The earth might
have too many people.

Maybe this is a good thing
that we have low fertility.

But there are some real
consequences to very low

birth rates.

Particularly if low birth
rates go on for a long time.

The obvious one a lot of
people think about is something

like Social Security, right?

Because how does
Social Security work?

(Purposeful music)

Current workers pay taxes,

and those taxes basically
go directly from their pocket

to current retirees.

Fewer workers, more retirees

means a more burden
on the worker or the

retirees' standard
of living is gonna fall.

Everybody's more miserable.

(Thud)

That's pretty clear.

What a lot of people don't
realize is that actually falling

population growth has the effect
of reducing the returns on

all assets and investment.

So you end up getting
these vicious cycles of asset

(Air deflating)

deflation and ultimately of
decrepitude and infrastructure.

There are real costs,
to society on the whole when

population falls,
persistently for a long time.

Are they manageable?

Maybe. With a well-functioning
political system governed by

competent people who can elicit,
good cooperation from

diverse parties,

you might be able to
manage falling population in a

reasonably, you know,
non-catastrophic way.

But I don't think anyone
believes that list I just

gave describes American
politics in the 21st century.

This is gonna be a
problem real soon.

It's gonna be a problem
for us, where like,

we have no children.

It's like, we also have, nothing

and we're old and
we're working at

Walmart and we're 90.

(Cash register beeps)

Like, this is awful.

And there's an aging society
with no one to actually take

care of them.

But like, this is part of, like,
the tumor that's capitalism.

(Glass smashes)

So it's kind of, like, not
incumbent upon like, young women

to crank out babies so that
we have like enough money

to take care of grandpa.

You know, like, that's the
way we've set up society.

And now we're just gonna have
to find a way to reset it up

because, you know, it's become

for many people it's just
become financially unviable

to have the kids.

I think that I will be cared
for in old age because I think

(Bicycle wheels turning)

I will live a life surrounded
by friends and connections

that may or may
not be related to me.

And someone being related
to you doesn't guarantee that

they will provide
care in your old age,

you know, or be the
right person to do that.

If you live your life in a
way that makes people feel

connected to you,

that's the best way to
have a cared for old age.

And that's the same if you
have kids and you make them feel

cared for and then they
know that they're loved,

I think that's a very good
chance that they will want to

take care of you
in old age, but...

(Gentle piano)

Again, doesn't that say that
having children could be seen

as a fundamentally selfish act

if someone's concern is

I need to have children so
that they can take care of me?

(Gentle piano continues)

The men that I date, they might
not want to have kids now,

but they probably want to
have kids in the future.

So when I say I don't have kids,
it's a shocking experience.

And I always say, you know,
you don't have to do this.

We don't have to, continue
into a relationship together if

that's something that you want,

because I am sure, that's
something that I do not want.

Dating is hard, I'm okay
being single, do I want kids?

No, but would I, raise a child?

Somebody else's child?

I don't know,
you know, I'm open to it.

It's not something
that I can say right now,

I would never do that.

Yeah, I actually, it's funny
because I would sort out,

filter out people who had

children or who
at least admitted

to having children
on those apps.

So I would filter them
out absolutely and people,

my friends would be like, Julia,
beggars can't be choosers.

That's not...

But I would be like, listen,

it's just, it’s
just math, right?

(Offbeat music)

I have not been able to find,
one person who can tolerate me.

I would need to find
three people who like me:

the man, the child
and the ex-wife.

It's just not gonna work.

Like, the probability of getting

all three of them aligned,
on this issue of me.

It's just not gonna happen.

That's, that’s really great.

I like the way you think.

I didn't filter out guys with
kids because, I saw it from

the other point
of view of, like,

well, if he's already got a kid,

then it's far less likely
he's gonna want anymore.

So that lets me off the hook,
you know what I mean?

I'm happy enough to be a stepmom

to be like, you know, like...

hey, you know, cool advice,

but I'm not in charge of you.

You know what I mean, like?

(Door shuts)

Or, to whatever degree

(Windows open)

that is required of me,

I can step up to that challenge,

(Curtains whoosh)

but it's not incumbent
upon me to like, I mean,

just get a kid out of my body.

And with the current
partner, I think we...

I mean, talked
about that right away.

I mean, he already
has a daughter

from a previous relationship.

So we kind of went, yeah,
we're not gonna do that.

And it's nice to not,
have that pressure.

It would be much different
if I was dating a younger guy

who was like,
I really want a family.

Be like, okay, good
luck finding that.

(She chuckles)

I was married to a very
nice, guy named Aaron,

(Birds tweet)

and we were married for,
five, years,

five and a half years maybe.

And...

I had told him when we
were dating that I did not want

kids, but, after we got married,

I told him that I was willing
for a year, to sort of let it

ride, and if I got pregnant,

then we would then subsequently
have more children because,

you know, you raised
almost as an only child,

are the best,
you know, evidence of

why you don't want
to have just one child.

Don't want to put all
your eggs in one basket.

No, exactly.

But I didn't get pregnant,
and Aaron had to think about,

alright, did he want
to spend, I don't know,

40 grand on
reproductive technology?

And his answer was
a pretty strong no.

So it was never...you never
had a conversation of like,

it's either me or...

You know, if you want kids,
you gotta leave?

When I was 35, I ended
up freezing my eggs,

(Gentle bluesy music)

mainly to get my
mom off my back,

but also because I
always thought that

no man would want
to be with me unless I,

(Children playing on swings)

made him a child.

This was my experience with
my mother and her partner.

Yeah, I just, I didn't think

there was any reason
that somebody would

want me for me.

I remember when you
decided to freeze your eggs and

just remember thinking that
it was, really taxing on your

body and also very expensive

and that you were
doing it for sad reasons.

And I feel like the people
that you have dated...

How can I put
this diplomatically?

...were not the nicest.

We met when I was 22,
and my husband, Dory,

he was 28 at the time.

We got, quite serious quickly,

and I told Dory early on,

that I was, absolutely
certain I didn’t want children.

And, I still left open
the possibility, well,

maybe I will change my
mind, because I was 22,

and everyone told me, that's
fine, you'll change your mind.

So I said, I don't
really think so, but...

I really don't want children.

Do you ever feel bad that you
didn't make him a little Dory

or a little Summer, that...

Because you knew this was
something that he wanted?

(Gentle piano)

The fact that you weren't...

Yes, I do feel, sad that I,

through being the
right person for Dory,

changed the course of his life.

And maybe that meant
that he didn't have children.

But...

The way we both talked
about it is...that there were

(Rewinding tape)

multiple, amazing,
happy, great life paths.

And one of them
was the with children,

and one of them
was without children.

And you can't have both,
so this is the one that we have.

And he said, I want children,
but I want you more.

My husband's childhood
wasn't great either.

And...his dad was an alcoholic.

It's interesting.

My husband also got the brunt

of the emotional and like
the beatings and stuff.

And then on top of that,
my husband went to Iraq in 2004,

2005, when that was going on.

He has PTSD from it.

I think, if, my husband
didn't have PTSD,

didn't have like the alcoholism,

didn’t... like...

Just a little bit more stable.

I'd be 100 percent,
be more willing to have a child.

Unfortunately, I love him,
and he is who he is.

And I'm sure that, he would
say the same about me.

And I know his mom said,

it's not too late for you
to get a divorce and marry

someone else that
can actually have kids.

That's painful.

You know, when you asked me,

when was it like
pinpointing when, you,

realized that you didn't
want to have kids?

And I think back to college,

where, your, parents

essentially asked
you to have a child

to save their marriage.

No, no, no, no,
I wasn't gonna give birth.

Well, you were going to be

contributing the egg,
for your siblings.

No, what happened was when...

My mom married my
stepfather when I was 14.

They had my brother
when I was 16.

My mom was 39.

And then my stepfather
wanted a second child.

They had a really
bad relationship,

but he was pretty adamant
about a second child.

And then she was
already too old.

They went through,
I think, a year of IVF.

And then they were just
like, your eggs don't work.

And they asked me for my eggs.

(Gentle piano)

So she was in such a
desperate situation that

I said I would go
ahead and do it.

And I went and started
going to the doctors.

And, they needed a
shrink's approval, actually,

for this to happen.

The shrink took one look
at the three of us and said,

I will not approve
this situation.

And I was so happy that he did

because I really
didn't want to do this.

(Gentle piano)

Then my, stepfather told
her to leave the apartment,

leave her son...

Because his dream
had always been

to have two children.

If she couldn't give
him a second child,

he would find another
woman who would.

And the ironic...part of
this, for me personally,

was that...

They had dated for four
years before getting married,

during which time he made
her have two abortions,

because he wasn't ready...to,

to settle down at that point.

(Gentle piano continues)

And...nobody in my
family thinks that this is...

Like, if you have
a great family,

then the tendency's you're
probably gonna go make a great

family, unless you're
a sociopath, right?

Maybe, yeah.

Maybe, but like, you have a
higher likelihood sometimes.

-Yeah.
-But, you know, yes,

a lot of people from broken
homes go on to either

make them or just
try to avoid them.

Avoid them.

Yeah, I feel like it's just
like safest for all around,

for all people involved, is
for me to, not engage in that.

I've talked to two people
recently who have difficult

relationships with their
mother, and they were like,

I don't think she
wanted to be a mother.

And especially, you know,

if you're talking to
someone who is like the next

generation above us,

they would have been raised
by mothers who had to be

mothers, you know?

So a lot of those women
didn't want to be mothers.

There was just nothing else
for them to do in order to like

have a life, you know?

So I get that.

None of my
siblings has children.

Everybody, I think,

has a story they
tell themselves of why.

But I’m kind of, like,

we all experienced surviving
that family and thought,

let's not replicate this.

I think the first thing
to iron out is what

we would want this,
to look like.

This person, if we're lucky to,
create them and raise them,

will also exist, and they
won't be an abstraction.

And not only will they
not be an abstraction,

but there's somebody that you...
very likely will see,

and so, what does
that mean for you?

What does that mean for us?

And I ask these questions not
because I have a firm opinion

on it, but it is something that,
we should iron out.

Since it's not blind,
and even if it were blind...

like, in the age of
genetic testing, your child,

even if you didn't tell it
that it was, made up with

(Quirky music)

somebody else's eggs, would,
when they get to be of age,

would definitely
take a genetic test,

because most people do nowadays.

And they would be like, hey,

how come I'm like
a quarter Jewish?

(Surprise sound effect)

So sort of working
backwards from an adult child,

they would know,
even if you didn't tell them.

So I'm assuming you're
gonna tell them, right?

So working backwards from
the fact that they will know,

(Quirky music continues)

I may as well, be open
to them being in my life,

if they wanna be in my life.

But, it would be up to them,
and it would be up to you guys,

whether, you know, like...

The way I'm
imagining is that like,

oh, I send them like a book
for their birthday, and like,

oh look, Auntie
Julia sent you a book.

I think you're right that, say,

if we're lucky enough
to create this child,

that there's nothing that
prevents them from finding out

that they have,
ancestry that runs through

where your family is from.

That is not the same thing as
them knowing that, they are in

any way related
to you specifically.

That's true.

One, are you
comfortable with that?

And if you knew this child,
and we chose not to disclose

your genetic
relationship to them,

would you, would you honor that?

(Quirky music continues)

I would. Absolutely. Absolutely.

(Melancholy music)

I...talked to people, to
women, and to men,

and...none of them...
said that they're happy

that they do not have children,

the ones who could
do not have children.

And they kind of
regretted it, all the time.

And the older you get,

the more you understand,
what's missing.

And, you know, the...

sorry, can I can I just
get this sample size?

Who are all of these men and
women that you spoke with who

regretted not having children?

Just curious.

You wanted the names?

Yeah, actually I do.

People who I...

Yeah?

...met.

Like, random
people on the street?

Jane? My friend's...

You questioned her?

Said, excuse me, do you
regret not having children?

It was just...

(She chuckles)

It was...just how the
conversation went around.

Because sometimes
you tend to say thing...

If I were to ask Jane...

But it's not just Jane.

If I were to ask Jane,
which I’m not going to,

but if I were, I'm just curious
whether she would confirm that.

Usually, people volunteer.

Really?

People volunteer saying
I regret I didn’t have children?

Yeah, kind of.

Thinking about,

(Gentle piano)

do I have regrets about
not having...had kids?

I don't think I really do,
because regret would mean that I

would have done
something different

under the same
circumstances, right?

So, I don't, really regret it.

I think, I mourn that we have
a system that doesn't make

child rearing, really something
that, is appealing, right?

And that, you know,

that we have a system where,
making that decision really

puts you in all kinds of,
other binds that are just

that are just really difficult.

People go through
those, periods and

if the, if the
conditions aren't right,

then they just, continue
their lives and don't have kids.

Which is fine.

You can have a fulfilling
life without having kids,

obviously.

But, if you really
want to have kids,

you shouldn't have to,
suffer in the way that we make

American parents suffer.

I think that no matter
what you choose,

you are going to have regrets,
and that's

natural and supposed
to happen, you know,

because, like, I don't know,

that's what it means to have
a life and make choices in it.

So, yeah, there are
gonna be some regrets,

but not, overwhelming enough

that I’m gonna be on my deathbed

like, you know what,
I did it all wrong,

and I shoulda had those
four kids, and really, you know,

like, I don't think
that's gonna happen.

(Long flatline)

I, to this day, I feel, sad that
my parents are not grandparents.

(Sad piano)

And, it's one of the
few places where I will

own that it is a
selfish decision,

because I do not think,
that, deciding to be childfree

is a selfish decision in
any way, shape, or form,

except when it
comes to my parents.

Because I put what I wanted
ahead of what they wanted.

And I don't do that a lot
when it comes to my parents.

The other place...

There are two places:
my parents and my religion.

As...a Jewish person,

I feel a responsibility to
make sure we stay around.

(Sad piano continues)

We lost six million of us.

At this point in the world,

I'm not convinced that
couldn't happen again.

And...I feel a responsibility to

make sure that,
Judaism continues.

And I am...not fulfilling
that responsibility.

And that is a
very difficult thing.

Again, wouldn't be a
good reason to have a child.

I adopted a real stoic
philosophy a few years ago when

I read a quote by Epictetus who
lived almost 2,000 years ago,

and he said, a ship should
not sail on a single anchor,

nor life on a single hope.

And it's certainly an
expectation that I had,

that I would have children.

But I...don't know,

I just knew in that minute that
when I read that, that, I...

life was fine the way...

with the variety of
experiences that I had.

So I'm okay.

You know, I mean,
one thing about blind donation,

it structurally, prevents one

from having, you know,
feelings of,

loss or regret or
what could have been.

Probability of you, hopefully
seeing you know what your

eggs can become, I mean, like...

Scenario: five years from now.

You know...well,

I hope we see each
other before then,

but you know what I mean?

Yeah.

I have no idea how to answer
that question, obviously.

There are studies, though,

that say that women
who never wanted children

don’t tend to experience
regret, for not having them.

The ones that did want
them and were unable

to have them...do.

So I'm in the former camp
where statistically I'm not

supposed to experience regret.

Granted, none of those
women who were surveyed,

probably, have had

their eggs created into
children with other people,

that then they meet
five years or 10 years or

20 years down the line.

So in practice,
what it will be like, of course,

I have, I have no idea.

Yeah.

Cool, so, all right.

Is it?

(Laughing)

Is it?

(Lighthearted music)

So, this is the thing.

Do you mind my
asking what it's for?

Yeah, it's...

so I had previously frozen eggs

and I'm donating
them to somebody.

So I'm basically
like signing away my

last opportunity
to have had a child.

Wow, okay, well.

Yeah, so, um, my ID, right?

Yeah.

What's today's date? The four -

Thirteenth.

Thirteenth. Okay.

(Hopeful music)

(Whimsical music)