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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,520 One of the most intriguing photographers of the 20th century 2 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,600 took her first known pictures here. 3 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,480 Her photos weren't seen in her lifetime. 4 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:40,440 Most she didn't even print, 5 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,720 but saw just once in her viewfinder as she took them. 6 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,640 It was 3,000 miles away in America 7 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,200 that Vivian Maier spent her life. 8 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,520 She worked as a nanny 9 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,960 and every day she took pictures - 10 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,280 150,000 of them. 11 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,560 She was a poet of suburbia. 12 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,760 A secret street photographer, 13 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,080 before the term was really invented. 14 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,120 The shadows of the America of her time 15 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,720 fall across Vivian Maier's photographs. 16 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,200 Just before she died, four years ago, 17 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,800 her life's work was discovered by accident 18 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,840 in storage lockers in Chicago. 19 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,040 It proved a treasure trove for the finders. 20 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,200 People found it hard to believe 21 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,920 that Mary Poppins with a camera could have taken these pictures. 22 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,760 It's a classic parable of the artist, unsung in life. 23 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:52,880 Van Gogh once said, 24 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,960 "Stars are the souls of dead poets, 25 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,000 "but to become a star, you have to die." 26 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,400 I was the manager of a movie theatre here in Chicago. 27 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,560 I noticed her, cos she was kind of an odd bird and er... 28 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,320 she came probably three or four times a month 29 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:44,000 for 13 years and she was also the type of person 30 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,440 I think you could potentially wonder if she was a little crazy. 31 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,880 I did notice her camera, 32 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,480 but with her vintage clothing, I just thought it was part of the costume. 33 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,120 The rest of my staff at the theatre thought she was mean. 34 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,720 They would say, "Oh, I don't want to deal with her. 35 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,240 "Jim, can you go talk to her?" 36 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,360 I never saw her come with anybody and I never saw her talk to anybody. 37 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:17,000 After the films, she would be leaving at 11 or midnight 38 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,920 and I would wonder where she would go. 39 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,040 Didn't seem homeless, but she seemed close. 40 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,800 She loved seeing a Buster Keaton film with children in the room. 41 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,360 They would be laughing and the piano would be playing 42 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,480 and it was just a really magical moment. 43 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,600 Did you know she was a nanny? 44 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,080 No idea. 45 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,160 To be honest with you, I was a little afraid to... 46 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:55,920 try to know too much about her. 47 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,920 Now, I sort of regret not prying a little bit 48 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,400 and finding out about her life, 49 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,680 it seems so interesting in retrospect. 50 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:13,080 And I was just a little bit afraid to get deep with this woman, you know. 51 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,120 This is Inger Raymond, 52 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,560 one of Vivian Maier's charges. 53 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,120 Vivian took hundreds of photographs of Inger, 54 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,920 almost all of which she's never seen before. 55 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,360 Many were taken on this beach. 56 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,640 If Miss Maier was out here, 57 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,520 she would wait until one of the kids was crawling 58 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,040 right between that little ice cave hole. 59 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,240 That was where she would take a picture. 60 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,320 When the printer was printing this... Mmm. 61 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,120 ..he didn't realise someone was hiding inside of the cupboard. 62 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Really? Oh, my God! 63 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,120 All of a sudden, he saw this, this eyeball. 64 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,520 It makes a very eerie look, 65 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,800 but I know what it is, it's one of those large sewer pipes. 66 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,880 I love that image because it is so dramatic, it's stark, 67 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,480 it's er...film noir, almost. 68 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,440 If you look at it closely, 69 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,120 there is a cross right on the face, 70 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:57,600 right on my face, and it's this almost caged-animal look with cross. 71 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,000 It's very interesting. 72 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,680 When she took her photos, she would be completely and utterly focused. 73 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,760 I mean, it was just, you know, instant, you know, absolute, 74 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,840 erm...concentration... 75 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,880 ..that it would be done. 76 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,160 I think even if she was here, 77 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,120 she couldn't explain her photography to us 78 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,680 because she didn't like talking about her photography 79 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,280 and most of the people who knew her, 80 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:33,240 and there are very few people who knew her, 81 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,560 she never talked about her photography. 82 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,200 So everything that we can learn about her is going to come from pictures, 83 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,440 because they show us what she liked, 84 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,240 what she disliked, what she was drawn to. 85 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,520 We really are just left with the images. 86 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,960 Vivian Maier used to haunt this market 87 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,040 with a movie camera as well as her stills camera. 88 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,440 "Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop, die knowing something, 89 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:29,960 "you're not here long." 90 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,600 The flea market is a shadow of its former self, 91 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,720 but still the happy hunting ground of pickers, treasure hunters. 92 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,920 And pickers love old photos and postcards. 93 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,880 Oh, man, you get the trucker photos, I get the racing photos. 94 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,400 Vivian Maier's work was brought to light 95 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,320 by people just like those she used to photograph. 96 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,400 What do you think? I just got here this morning. 97 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:26,000 Ron Slattery was the first to buy Vivian's work at auction in 2007. 98 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:28,920 The Chicago stuff's great. 99 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,320 Postcards? 100 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,200 Yeah, these are old postcards. 101 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,360 Roger Gunderson was the auctioneer who sold it to him. 102 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,320 Oh, there you go. That's nice. 103 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,440 There's Lake Street with the... 104 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,920 That's pretty cool, isn't it? 105 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,720 Vivian Maier had no home of her own, 106 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,160 so she kept her life's work in storage lockers. 107 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,800 But in her old age, she was no longer able to pay the rent, 108 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,240 so the contents of the lockers were sold. 109 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,360 What would she have paid 110 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,920 to keep that stuff in storage over the years? 111 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,840 Thousands of dollars, I would imagine. 112 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,680 Is, isn't that sort of tragic, in a way, 113 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:18,760 that she puts all her life's work into storage 114 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,600 and she's paying out these huge sums of money for it 115 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,880 and then she loses it all? And, and it all goes away, yeah. 116 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,760 When her lockers were put up for sale, 117 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,600 half a dozen dealers turned up. 118 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,280 All they saw were old suitcases and boxes. 119 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:43,040 They'd open the door and you'd bid from the doorway, you'd look, 120 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,160 you couldn't touch, what you see is what you get. 121 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,320 And it was always a big gamble. 122 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,120 You might end up with something worth nothing 123 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,480 or you might end up with something worth millions, 124 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,240 which, as it happens... It happens. 125 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,200 Roger bought five lockers full of Vivian Maier's stuff. 126 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,240 It filled one and a half trucks, 127 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,600 unloaded here in this auction room. 128 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:14,200 'Had I known that this thing was going to get as big as it had, 129 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,360 'I would have saved every crumb of paper I had.' 130 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,200 And these are the trucks that you put all Vivian's stuff in? 131 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,720 Yes, this one right here. 132 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,160 'But we threw some away, personal writings and things like that, 133 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,205 'some of that stuff that, hindsight being 20/20, 134 00:10:28,206 --> 00:10:29,760 had we known, we would have kept it.' 135 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:36,480 But we, we sold it, we turned it, we made money - deal. 136 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:44,360 The Vivian Maier phenomenon had begun. 137 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,680 Now, New York galleries sell new prints, often made from negatives 138 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:57,840 that Vivian never even developed, for upwards of 2,000. 139 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,880 Vintage prints made in Vivian's lifetime go for 8,000. 140 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,560 It's a complete accident that the world has stumbled on her work. 141 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,760 It could very easily have been destroyed without anyone knowing about it. 142 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,560 Vivian Maier, unlike any other photographer I can think of, 143 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,960 made her work entirely for herself. 144 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:27,520 She had no audience, she knew no other photographers, 145 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:33,440 she didn't really print her work, except in the most rudimentary form. 146 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,840 She didn't exhibit her work or publish her work. 147 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,240 It was a project entirely self-motivated, 148 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,080 entirely self-fulfilling 149 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,800 and this creates a certain freedom, a certain independence. 150 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,840 It's her own personal voice. 151 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,960 Vivian Maier worked in a variety of genres - 152 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,680 she took street photography, 153 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,920 wandering around the streets of Chicago and New York, 154 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,520 indigene people on the street, because they're on the street 155 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,800 and just marvellously expressive moment. 156 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,160 She does wonderful portraits 157 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,840 that are of distinctive characters 158 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,600 that she is able to capture in a moment, 159 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,560 everything is moving very, very fast. 160 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,480 She would definitely be very close 161 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,080 in order to capture the way his hair is stuck to his forehead 162 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,040 and this anxious expression. 163 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,520 She's very much like a poet 164 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,560 who's trying to just observe very carefully, 165 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:43,920 for personal reasons - to look at the world 166 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,280 and locate what's important to her, 167 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:48,760 what interests her, 168 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,800 capture it in a photograph. 169 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,840 It's exceedingly personal. 170 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,320 There is humour in her work. 171 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,320 This is a picture of one of the children 172 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,440 that Vivian Maier took care of. 173 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,800 She photographed while she was working, moonlighting on the job. 174 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Some of those remain in the...realm of snapshots. 175 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,560 But many of them transcend that genre 176 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:34,440 and become more observations about children, about family, 177 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,960 about the suburbs... 178 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,680 Youth confronting age. 179 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,080 Who's going to have the time and the space to be in somebody's backyard, 180 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,040 taking that kind of picture? 181 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,320 A nanny would, you know, who's also a great photographer. 182 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,160 I mean, all her self-portraits intrigue me, cos er... 183 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,120 ..you know, they're her and she intrigues me. 184 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,280 She was interested in seeing 185 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,760 how she fit into the world. 186 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,600 We believe that she never fully realised her work, 187 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,480 so we are helping her to realise it, 188 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,040 by printing it in a certain way, by editing it in a certain way, 189 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,480 picking the pictures that have meaning to us, 190 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,080 erm... You know, it's, it is what it is. 191 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,800 It's a very unique case. 192 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,560 Ron Slattery owns about 2,000 of Vivian's prints and negatives, 193 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,360 which he is NOT selling. 194 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,880 Let's start with this one. 195 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,640 'Would you tell us what you paid for them?' 196 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,520 250. 197 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,000 And away we go. 198 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,120 'For how many photographs? 'My whole collection.' 199 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,160 For the same sum, the auctioneer got all five lockers. 200 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,440 'Did you make a lot of money out of it?' 201 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000. 202 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,160 Do you wish on some days, when you wake up in the morning, 203 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,800 that you'd actually kept it all? 204 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,760 Well, hindsight being 20/20, sure. 205 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,120 That's one of my favourites. 206 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,280 'But when we first started selling this, nobody knew,' 207 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,120 even the people buying I don't think knew. 208 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,200 Did you see the photos before you bought them? 209 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,400 Nah, I just kind of looked it was like, "Oh, neato - photos," and bought them. 210 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,200 'At the time, I was buying so many photographs. 211 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,480 'That is, putting them into boxes and putting them into storage, 212 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,280 'much the same way Vivian did.' 213 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,320 That's Vivian Maier. 214 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,160 A very unique self-portrait. 215 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,160 Vivian never saw anything like the beautiful large prints 216 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,800 that are being made today. 217 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,680 When she saw prints at all, they were usually small ones like these, 218 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,400 supplied by the drugstore or made by her in her lodgings. 219 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,680 Ron's collection would be dwarfed by others. 220 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,320 There was a gentleman named Randy who bought some. 221 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,800 One man, John Maloof, left an absentee bid on a box of negatives, 222 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,360 just a little bit of everybody, 223 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,080 so that's kind of where her work kind of went "Whoop!" 224 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,680 When I went through some boxes in 2008, 225 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,720 I pulled out the slides and went, "Wow, these are cool," 226 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,480 posted some on my website. 227 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,760 John starts making prints from Vivian's negatives 228 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,560 and selling them on eBay. 229 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,160 Alan Secular, who's an art professor in California, 230 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,400 contacted John and said, "This is very important." 231 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,240 At this point was where he went, "Ding! OK." 232 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,760 He started collecting as much of the work as he could. 233 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,440 So Vivian's pictures were starting to appear online, 234 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,240 but who was making the selection? 235 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,880 It worries some people. 236 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,760 I'll be the first to honour the quality of the work, 237 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,000 but, at the same time, I'm concerned, 238 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,120 because we're only seeing pictures 239 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:28,840 that the people who bought the suitcases decided to edit 240 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,080 and, and what kind of editors are they? 241 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,880 What would she have edited out of this work 242 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,480 and what would she have printed? 243 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:44,680 How do any of us know who the real Vivian Maier is? 244 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,520 So you were telling the world about Vivian - 245 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,840 did you ever think to seek out Vivian yourself? 246 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,920 John and I both googled up Vivian. 247 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,120 And we're searching for her, we could find no information. 248 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,760 The first thing that popped up was her obituary after she passed away. 249 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,920 John Maloof now owns the lion's share of Vivian's work. 250 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,000 He declined to take part in this film, because he's making his own. 251 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:23,360 The second biggest owner is now Jeff Goldstein, an artist and carpenter. 252 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,720 You've changed your entire life, Jeff - 253 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,440 you've given up your vocation 254 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,600 and now you're just in the Vivian Maier business. Right. 255 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,400 And you're not the only one in this genre, of course, 256 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,800 there's John Maloof. What does that make you feel? 257 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,920 Well, we spend half of our time trying to push our projects forward 258 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,360 and I think we spend the other half 259 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,080 trying not to look like public assholes. 260 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,800 We're under global scrutiny. 261 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,120 Her house is right around the corner up here. 262 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,040 And this is a pretty tough neighbourhood to be. 263 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,065 There was a fair amount of drug activity, 264 00:18:58,066 --> 00:18:59,760 a fair amount of crime takes place. 265 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,840 So this was her, her last residence here. 266 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,760 That's the door? Yeah. 267 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,360 Did she photograph a lot around this area? 268 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,320 She did, along this stretch of Howard Street - 269 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,440 there's a beautiful shot coming off the bridge, 270 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,600 looking down in fact this way, the train tracks. 271 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:30,680 She fell and hit her head actually right by those tracks. 272 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,160 Really? 273 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,960 And she was taken to a local hospital, resisted help 274 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,000 and they thought she would recover, 275 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,320 but, apparently, that was not the case. 276 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,560 So during that period when the storage locker sales were happening, 277 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,360 she was in hospital, recovering from this accident? 278 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:01,880 That's my understanding. 279 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,960 Yeah, I really came into this about a year later, 280 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,240 which, in some ways, is nice for me. 281 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,600 How do you mean by that? 282 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,680 She went into arrears, her lockers came up... 283 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,640 I'm thankful to be one step removed from all of that. 284 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,440 Jeff bought the bulk of his collection from Randy Prow, 285 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,920 who'd bought it at Roger's auctions. 286 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,640 When these transactions take place, 287 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,120 it's not for the faint of heart, 288 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,960 it's not a standard art acquisition. 289 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,640 People are on their guard. 290 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,320 How did you get hold of these pictures? 291 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,960 I initially went down to where Randy Prow lives, in Southern Indiana, 292 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,720 it's a good eight-hour drive from Chicago. 293 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,320 And I brought along someone with me, a retired fireman, Chicago fireman, 294 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,040 er...pretty burly, good-size guy 295 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,080 and I met up with Randy, who I had never, hadn't met before, 296 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,080 in an abandoned warehouse in a run-down section in this town. 297 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,840 Randy had somebody with HIM for backup, 298 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,520 so we both came into this being pretty leery of one another. 299 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,040 Randy's guy was much bigger than my guy. 300 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,720 You carried the money with you? Yeah. 301 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,240 It looked like I had a vest with bricks attached to it, 302 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,240 so like, the type they wear in the army for protection, I guess. 303 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,720 Later, Randy was ready to sell even more of Vivian's work. 304 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,640 More and more people were hearing about it, 305 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,520 so the last purchase price was astronomical. 306 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,320 It was something I couldn't handle alone, 307 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,840 and so John Maloof and I got together 308 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,240 to make the last purchase from Randy Prow. 309 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,600 I went down with John and his friend Tony - 310 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,120 I had my friend Rick, who was an off-duty Chicago cop. 311 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:07,240 Rick comes armed, and Randy brought his brother, who came armed. 312 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,720 There was a great deal of intensity in that room, 313 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,040 cos you, you just don't know what may or may not happen. 314 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,880 I was sweating some bullets in there. 315 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,400 No pun intended. 316 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,480 So who was this elusive woman 317 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,040 who took these thousands of photographs... 318 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,280 ..often full of tenderness, like a parent's, 319 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,640 but always from the outside? 320 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,640 All these were taken in the '50s and '60s 321 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,360 when she was working as a nanny in the suburbs north of Chicago. 322 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,480 She worked in several houses, 323 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,800 but for by far the longest time 324 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,000 with a family called the Ginsbergs. 325 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,160 Vivian's family, 326 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:10,120 they were very much a hub of that neighbourhood 327 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,880 and I think she probably enjoyed it... 328 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:22,440 ..enjoyed the erm...the energy that flowed from their family. 329 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,840 It was a prosperous community, 330 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,160 probably predominantly Jewish. 331 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:37,720 It was really a neighbourhood in a very old-fashioned way. 332 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,640 We ice-skated, we went to the beach. 333 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,760 She rode a bicycle - 334 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,720 we all rode bicycles, children, 335 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,760 but...but grown-ups seldom did. 336 00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:56,080 And she always had her camera. 337 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,480 I remember Vivian taking photographs of the kids 338 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,920 as they were just lounging around 339 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:11,160 and being surprised that there was no eye contact, 340 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,960 she was just into her viewfinder. 341 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,040 And...it was fascinating... 342 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:23,120 to see somebody who was er... 343 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,480 part of the group, 344 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:32,880 but also had found a way to...to wall herself off from it. 345 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,880 Her favourite camera helped with this. 346 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,080 This is the same model as her first Rolleiflex, this opens... 347 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,840 'Artist and lecturer Pamela Bannos showed us how. 348 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,320 'She's been researching Vivian's life work and tools.' 349 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,640 So we look through this viewfinder. 350 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,840 You can see how difficult that is to see, to get accustomed to. 351 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,080 She looked straight down... Yeah. ..and out. 352 00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,480 So this is a twin-lens camera, 353 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,640 you're actually looking through this upper lens 354 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,040 and the photograph is being made through the lower lens. 355 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,000 One thumb would turn this dial, 356 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,000 the other thumb would turn this dial, 357 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,280 we press that button and we've made the picture. Down in there to look... 358 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,120 'To look down in a camera 359 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,440 'means you're not making eye contact with people,' 360 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,040 and for a woman photographer, 361 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,560 it was a good disguise, 362 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,520 because, to be out on the streets, 363 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,080 you had to have the personality for it, 364 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:35,880 but you also needed a tool that allowed you to stay invisible. 365 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,440 And she looked like a schoolmarm, 366 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,800 she looked innocent - 367 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:47,040 it allowed her to get into the living space of lots of people. 368 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,240 When I look back at all the pictures, 369 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,400 she was clearly focusing in 370 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,280 on the relationship of children and their parents. 371 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,680 Some of it was very sweet, 372 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,800 but some of it was...I think maybe judgemental. 373 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,200 It may also have been 374 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,000 that she was noticing something about that community, 375 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:29,080 some kind of...edginess and picking up on it. 376 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:39,240 The camera presented this magical transition for her 377 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,200 that allowed her to see people and to get places 378 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,360 without being...caught doing it, 379 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:52,960 and people allowed it because she wasn't there. 380 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,320 She was just in the viewfinder. 381 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,160 In order to live in someone else's family and care for their kids, 382 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,160 you have to be both present and absent at the same time. 383 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,000 And she knew how to achieve that kind of balance 384 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,800 and she carried it out, it seems to me, 385 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,720 in her work on the street too - she's definitely non-threatening. 386 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:29,040 Her eye was so excellent for catching 387 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:35,120 not just the character of the people she was photographing, 388 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:40,560 but also the moment in history. 389 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:48,280 She got Chicago in the '50s and early '60s in a very precise way, 390 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:54,880 she got the things that...that made it that moment. 391 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,320 There was always a degree of separation 392 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,640 between Vivian and everyone else. 393 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,520 She was clearly a recluse. 394 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,640 The south here was er...my dad's dental office 395 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:22,360 and upstairs was a room that Dad had given to Miss Maier to stay. 396 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,080 She actually completely filled the room with newspapers 397 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,760 and pictures and stuff, 398 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,080 so much that my dad had to put a steel jack underneath 399 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,520 to hold the floor up 400 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,960 and he couldn't figure out why the ceiling was sagging. 401 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,800 She did hoard things 402 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,800 and she brought a lot of possessions into the house. 403 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,280 Her bedroom, initially, was very simple 404 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,600 and, in no short order, 405 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,960 she ended up bringing in all her possessions - 406 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,520 boxes, newspapers, er...lots of clothes, 407 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,120 lots of different items, 408 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,767 and it got to the point where this sparsely populated room 409 00:29:03,768 --> 00:29:06,120 was unbelievably crowded 410 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,400 and, in fact, you had to almost narrow your way in 411 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,640 on the occasions that she, you know, she'd let you in, 412 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,880 because she was very, very private. 413 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,880 It was really, really strange to see so many pictures of myself. 414 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,360 I saw a few pictures when I was very little... 415 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,760 ..but after that, no, I mean, she, she kept them all to herself, 416 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,240 so no, I had no clue. 417 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,080 My mom was a photography editor for newspapers, 418 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,520 she worked with a lot of photographers, 419 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,360 but Miss Maier never, ever showed her any of the photos, 420 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,720 so it was kind of unusual that way. 421 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,840 I always called her Miss Maier 422 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,160 and that was what she wanted me to call her, 423 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,480 or my parents. Never Vivian, 424 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,640 and she would take your head off if you used anything else. 425 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,520 Sometimes she would hand her box camera to me 426 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,800 and she wanted me to take a picture of herself. 427 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,640 And I think you took that picture. 428 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,800 Let's see, half her head cut off and... Yeah, that would be me. 429 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,840 'She wanted that focus of that camera' 430 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,040 just so. And she'd be frustrated 431 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,080 because she didn't think I could get it to the point where she wanted it. 432 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,760 She told me about the importance of the contrast between dark and light. 433 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,720 When we'd go on our walks, 434 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,920 she'd take me all over the place. 435 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,920 After she got done the supper, she would leave, 436 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,840 and she would walk to this train station 437 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,760 headed towards Chicago area. 438 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,600 That's all we knew. I never heard where she went. 439 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,120 She never told anybody... 440 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,840 ..and she would be very angry if we asked. 441 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,840 Whenever she could, Vivian would take the train 442 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,200 from the northern suburbs, where she worked, to downtown Chicago. 443 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,360 TRAIN TANNOY: Doors closing. 444 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,880 The pictures that we're looking at were all taken 445 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,720 within just a few blocks of here. 446 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,800 The man sitting by an old subway station 447 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,840 probably would have been taken right here. He was kind of panhandling. 448 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,240 It was such a contrast to the life that she was leading in the suburbs. 449 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,640 She was looking for people. 450 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,440 The best way to capture the energy of a city 451 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,720 and to understand the city is on the streets. 452 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,520 She wasn't on a tour bus, she wasn't from afar, 453 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,160 she was down at street level. 454 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,440 Some of them aren't quite down and out, are they? 455 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:57,360 Some of them are elderly people who are rather ornate in their own way. 456 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,440 It's funny because, as you look at these different pictures, 457 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,560 so many were taken on this corner. 458 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,160 The Marshall Field's clocks were kind of a meeting place - 459 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,640 people would say, "Meet me under the Marshall Field's clock." 460 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,160 "The camera is an instrument of detection. 461 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,240 "We photograph not only what we know, but also what we don't know." 462 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,440 We're going on to the South Side to meet Sara Paretsky, 463 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,880 a detective writer whose heroine also walked these mean streets. 464 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,240 The danger that this area, wandering around here - I mean, 465 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,480 how do you see that mystery woman side of Vivian? 466 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,200 My sense of her was that she didn't think about it, 467 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,760 that she was so focused on her quest 468 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,000 that she didn't think about whether she was personally at risk. 469 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,480 I think she had an intense interest in people who, in some ways, 470 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,200 were like her, and were on the margins 471 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,000 of the more glittery world 472 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,320 that she worked for but wasn't part of. 473 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,920 I think it can be reassuring 474 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,280 to know that you're not alone 475 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:40,520 in that kind of outsider world. 476 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,560 And also, you know, she worked hard for a living 477 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,640 and these are people who worked hard for a living. 478 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,760 I also get a sense of... 479 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,840 a kind of a loneliness or anomie that is, is really painful, 480 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,480 and I wonder if she selected those shots 481 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,520 out of her own sense of loneliness. 482 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,240 She must have felt 483 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:07,720 that there was something about her that was rootless, 484 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:10,040 that wasn't weighted down, and that 485 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,920 as many images as she could take somehow gave her weight. 486 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,480 Photography can be kind of a lonely profession, 487 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,040 and it's something that one actually 488 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,240 has a lot of alone-time with. 489 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,560 That's probably part of her success, 490 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,560 she had a lot of alone-time. 491 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,520 This is how she managed to do what she did. 492 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,280 She actually was the personification of finding art. 493 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,320 She walked into a picture, she saw it happening, 494 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,360 she took a picture and she left. 495 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,200 Camera shop staff like Pat were among the few 496 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,000 who ever got to see any of Vivian's pictures. 497 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,600 She mostly showed me street scenes, 498 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,160 sometimes some pretty bad neighbourhoods. 499 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,840 This woman was going on foot. 500 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,680 I'm also surprised that she just emerged unscathed. 501 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,600 She would have been prey to someone 502 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,080 who would have wanted the camera or something. 503 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,680 I've been here since I was 14 504 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,880 and I can remember her sort of coming in 505 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:30,840 as early as that. And...it didn't matter the weather outside, 506 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,360 but mainly, it was late in the afternoons. 507 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,200 Yeah, she wore heavy er...shit-kicker shoes, 508 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,680 long skirts, dark clothing, wintertime heavy coats, 509 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:43,880 lots of scarves. 510 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:49,040 She treated people as people and whether she liked people, 511 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,760 that was another story that day or she didn't like people that day. 512 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,520 And she did not like women who were trying to act like women. 513 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,800 If you had make-up on, I think she basically would cut you off. 514 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,840 Men - aggressive or too many questions. 515 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,320 "Goodbye - could someone else take care of me?" 516 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,760 I mean, she was right to the point. 517 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,840 Sometimes, very rarely, she would open up the roll, to decide... 518 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,920 She'd say, "Come here," and you know, "You can look at them with me." 519 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,400 But not too often, mainly it was private. 520 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,320 I don't honestly remember the pictures, 521 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,560 just that it was black and white and it was people things. 522 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,400 With a Rolleiflex, she had just 12 shots 523 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,480 and then had to reload the film - 524 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,400 not easy in the open air. 525 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,240 She shot about a roll of film a day. 526 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:56,360 She spent virtually all her earnings on film, equipment and storage. 527 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,080 Unlike most photographers, 528 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,240 Vivian tended to take just one shot and move on. 529 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:05,880 Her hit rate was phenomenal. 530 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,480 This is a roll of film, the order in which they were taken. 531 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:18,160 It's kids getting on a bus in the morning for school. 532 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,960 She drops them off, 533 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,040 and then she heads downtown and she starts photographing. 534 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,520 You really get this sense of a day in the life or of a diary here, 535 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,400 and you can see how she moves through the street. 536 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,600 If you put it all in a row 537 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,360 you would see one woman's life 538 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,040 unfolding on film in this way - 539 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:42,640 you'd have an unbroken string of images of what she saw, 540 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,480 of what her experiences were. 541 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,880 This is what her big project was, it was her life. 542 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,960 It was experiencing life through photography. 543 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,160 She'll come upon somebody 544 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,600 who seems to be either in crisis or contemplating something, 545 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,840 people who seemed to be kind of lost in, in a world of deep thought... 546 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,800 ..and she was able to capture this image 547 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,160 and this is really a portrait, it's a portrait of a person, 548 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,800 it's not just a shot of a random person walking down the street, 549 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,440 she's captured a real, raw emotion here. 550 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,760 As interested as she was in other people, 551 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,120 she gave away very little about herself. 552 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,040 My father hired her in part because she had a European background, 553 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,160 which my father did as well. 554 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,000 Oftentimes, around the dinner table, for example, 555 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,600 they would speak in French. 556 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,080 Vivian was a rather opinionated woman. 557 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,080 She had political leanings 558 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,560 that I think were more on the left and feminist, 559 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,800 but I would say that, wholly apart from her political opinions 560 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,720 is perhaps the way that she carried them off. 561 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:08,160 She was an extremely abrasive person, 562 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,040 and often times it was pretty much in your face. And that was Vivian. 563 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,640 When people tried to elicit information about her, 564 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,480 she would quickly change the topic. 565 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,920 In terms of her upbringing and background, 566 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,920 there was nothing that I ever really...got to know. 567 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:31,040 She was creating a play for children in the backyard 568 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,720 and she would assign roles to all the children. 569 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,360 They said, "Well, what role are you going to play?" 570 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,240 And she just looked around and said, "I'll be the mystery woman." 571 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,920 There were times when the parents would ask her, 572 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,040 "So you lived in France, was that during the Occupation?" 573 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,600 And she'd respond, "Maybe." 574 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,280 So she really enjoyed having this air of mystery. 575 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,720 And I think the mystery is still there. 576 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,920 In just the area of Chicago where Vivian lived, 577 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,720 Pamela Bannos is doing forensic research 578 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:13,240 on what she calls Vivian Maier's fractured archive. 579 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,200 Split between the different owners. 580 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,360 These are ones that Vivian chose. 581 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,840 That she chose to save. 582 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,480 She's also digging deep into Vivian's mysterious past. 583 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,440 ..Hold in her hand and look at... 584 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,400 I see Vivian Maier as a woman 585 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,800 who is the product of the legacy of the French women before her. 586 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,240 She is the daughter of a woman 587 00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:39,000 who was the daughter of another woman 588 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,400 who were all live-in servants in New York. 589 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,560 She is also today somebody else entirely, 590 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,040 who I think has been invented by people who love a good story, maybe. 591 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,320 THEY CHUCKLE 592 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,800 Her grandmother, Eugenie Jaussaud, 593 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,920 had a child out of wedlock at the age of 16. 594 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,000 She left the Champsaur Valley, of France, sort of a shamed woman. 595 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,200 She arrives in New York in 1901, 596 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,160 leaving her baby behind, 597 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,120 and then essentially becomes a live-in cook 598 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,880 for the rest of her life. 599 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,800 So Vivian's grandmother Eugenie 600 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,840 leaves her illegitimate daughter behind in France 601 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,040 to become a cook - and then what happens? 602 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:31,120 In 1914, her daughter, Maria Jaussaud, arrives in Manhattan, 603 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,680 travelling with an American woman, as her private maid. 604 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,400 She's in New York, never having seen her mother. 605 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,880 In 1919, Vivian's mother married her father, 606 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,360 an Austrian-Hungarian, Charles Maier. 607 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,240 And on her marriage certificate, 608 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,960 she changes her parents' names 609 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,520 to make it look as though she's legitimate. 610 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,120 She corrects the family history, 611 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,680 so she sort of invents herself at this point, at least on paper. 612 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,120 This Vivian Maier story is filled with intrigue and secrecy 613 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,840 and deception and privacy, 614 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,120 which I think is a theme that goes throughout. 615 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,800 Vivian told people she was born in France, 616 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,960 but in fact 617 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,800 she was born in Manhattan in 1926. 618 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,400 Aged four, Vivian was living in St Mary's Street, in the Bronx, 619 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,160 with her mother, but without her father or her elder brother. 620 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,880 But, there's a woman living with them 621 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,040 from a neighbouring village in France - 622 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,280 a studio photographer, Jeanne Bertrand. 623 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:45,160 Maybe she had some influence on Vivian, the photographer to be. 624 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,720 Jeanne Bertrand had had an illegitimate child 625 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,920 whom she'd given up to adoption, 626 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,680 and she'd since had a mental breakdown. 627 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,200 We have these French women with no families, 628 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,560 we have babies with no fathers, 629 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,840 we have this connection of women who are displaced, 630 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,920 who then end up living with other families 631 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,640 or give their children to other families or give their children up. 632 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,840 Vivian Maier appears to have had very few personal relationships. 633 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,520 She certainly never got married, 634 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,960 we don't know of any, any other relationship. 635 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,800 So that would suggest this displacement 636 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,360 comes from the circumstances. Yes. 637 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,120 In 1932, Pamela finds Vivian's mother, 638 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,760 using the Swiss Benevolent Society, home for single women, 639 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,960 as her address in an advert she places in the paper 640 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,240 for a job as a chambermaid. 641 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:56,200 She's now calling herself Mademoiselle Jaussaud. 642 00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,760 Within months, she gives up 643 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,760 and they go to France for six years. 644 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,720 Vivian was to live in her mother and grandmother's village in France 645 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:15,840 from the age of six to 12. 646 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,600 She was seen as something of an outsider. 647 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,000 Later, Vivian was to take thousands of photographs here. 648 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,040 WOMAN SPEAKS IN FRENCH 649 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,880 TRANSLATION: She captured my attention because she made my imagination work. 650 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,200 She came from America. 651 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,960 It's El Dorado, especially for a little girl of ten. 652 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,680 For me, she was an extra-terrestrial 653 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,360 who had arrived from the United States. 654 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,920 She had a turned-up nose 655 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:00,840 and a runny nose. 656 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:07,400 The flat where they stayed was not very comfortable, or very warm. 657 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,480 MAN SPEAKS IN FRENCH 658 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,080 TRANSLATION: She didn't think like us at all. 659 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:19,240 I remember one day, we noticed some chickens scratching in a farmyard. 660 00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:23,600 She was disgusted, and decided never to eat eggs again. 661 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,120 All the boys in the village were very pleased to be in her company. 662 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,680 She was a bit reserved. 663 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,360 I'd often see her in the village square playing Marelle, 664 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,840 a game where you draw squares - 665 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,960 there's hell and heaven, paradise, 666 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,680 and you jump by throwing a stone. 667 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,880 I remember she threw it a long way. 668 00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:59,160 We were all looking at her knickers. 669 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,840 SHE CHUCKLES 670 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,000 TRANSLATION: That's my mother, my mother! 671 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:13,120 In the shop, 672 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,520 we had a cake shop... 673 00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:19,880 It's good, this photo. I'd like to have it. 674 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,000 Usually, she was preoccupied, 675 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,800 there was so much work, 676 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,360 but here, she looks calm. 677 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,800 TRANSLATION: All that is very, very long ago. 678 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,240 After 12 more years in New York, 679 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,640 a 24-year-old Vivian visited the village again. 680 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,960 It was soon after the Second World War. 681 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,120 How she learned to use a camera remains a mystery, 682 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:04,920 but she knew what she was doing. 683 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,360 These are her first known pictures, 684 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,520 previously dismissed as snapshots. 685 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,760 When I started looking through these pictures, 686 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,000 I started wondering which photographs these people were talking about, 687 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,480 because what I was seeing was extremely different. 688 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,480 This is not a child working with an innocent machine, 689 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,040 this is a woman who knows how to work a camera. 690 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,480 This is the box camera, the humble snapshot camera. 691 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,960 Literally, it has one, one shutter speed, and no other adjustment. 692 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,520 And the suggestion is that this is what she used in, in France. Right. 693 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,080 But she wasn't, in fact she might have been using a camera 694 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,680 not dissimilar to this. Correct. 695 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,160 This particular camera is probably from the 1940s. 696 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,080 You can focus it, you can adjust the shutter speeds, 697 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:51,600 you can adjust the apertures, 698 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,240 you could fold it down 699 00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:55,440 and it collapses into itself. 700 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,600 This could also be considered a traveller's camera. 701 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,280 She was developing the skills that would become her hallmark. 702 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,080 Right early on, 703 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:19,920 you see her observe a character sitting on a stoop or something 704 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,120 in a public space, and she works around him. 705 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:30,600 She followed her inner line of curiosity, 706 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:36,960 and it's that that establishes an artistic tendency, 707 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,880 cos the amateur doesn't do that. 708 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,120 Vivian was in France to sort out the sale of a farm 709 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,680 that belonged to her great-aunt, who'd died during the war. 710 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,560 It was called Beauregard, "beautiful view". 711 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,720 Her grandfather lived nearby. 712 00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:01,000 He was poor, teased by the village boys, almost an outcast. 713 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,000 It was a horrible echo of what would happen to Vivian herself 714 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,480 and to her mother, who would end up in a seedy hotel in New York. 715 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,040 Nelly lived next door. 716 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:15,280 SHE SPEAKS IN FRENCH 717 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:16,600 TRANSLATION: It's me there, 718 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,840 like two sisters. 719 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,400 Wherever I went, she'd come with me. 720 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,360 What everybody said was, they all thought she was a spy, 721 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,160 because she took photographs all over the place. 722 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,560 My parents and I never thought anything like that. 723 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,280 Look at her there, she's beautiful, it looks just like her. 724 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,320 She was refined, and sincere above all. 725 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,440 That's what I remember about her. 726 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,280 On Sundays, we'd all go to dances, but she didn't go to dances. 727 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,600 SHE CLEARS HER THROAT 728 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:06,320 And she never married, she never made a life for herself. 729 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,480 Yet she's a pretty woman. 730 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,600 This morning, you've brought me something 731 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,200 which has made me very happy - to see her again. 732 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:23,920 It was a joy. 733 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,600 Vivian roamed the area, taking views of mountains and monuments. 734 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,400 She was, it seems, making postcards 735 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,360 through the camera shop in the village, 736 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,040 so maybe, at this point, 737 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,200 she was hoping to make photography into a career. 738 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,960 The spy story grew - 739 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,360 and the idea that she had a gun to defend herself. 740 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,560 A woman wandering alone is the stuff from which myths are made. 741 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:04,800 In the nearby town of Gap 742 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,560 she photographed a Communist Party rally, 743 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,040 and she was always seeking out people living on the edge. 744 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,600 In the spring of 1951, 745 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,880 she heads back across the ocean to New York. 746 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,520 It's as though Vivian was seeing the city 747 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,840 in which she'd spent most of her life for the first time. 748 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,880 'She's 26 years old when she's doing this - 749 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,480 'hopeful years, when you have your life ahead of you. 750 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,200 'She's learned everything so fast, she's learned how to look 751 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,480 'and she's going to places that are new. 752 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,640 'We're actually walking in her footsteps. 753 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,520 'It feels sort of uncanny to look through the camera 754 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:00,920 'and see the same things.' 755 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,600 And then, I guarantee you she shoots the East River right here. 756 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,440 This is obviously something that we can catch better on foot 757 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:12,800 than, than in a car. 758 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,200 She goes to these heights 759 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,880 and creates these vistas. 760 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,840 These reminded me of the photographs 761 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,080 that she had shot in the Alps, in France, 762 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:29,720 when she was there in 1950. 763 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,400 Now, like her grandmother and mother before her, 764 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,960 she turned to domestic service and started to work as a nanny. 765 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,720 And, ever more intensely, as a photographer. 766 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,960 She's on the balcony of the Hotel Astor for the Macy's Day Parade. 767 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:51,720 You can see from the right 768 00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,120 she's actually standing with a bunch of children. 769 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,640 These children might be her charges, mightn't they? They might be, right. 770 00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,280 She gets access to these places 771 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,360 because she's working for wealthy families who get access to places. 772 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,360 But often, she creates her own access. 773 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,320 So she's standing in the shadow here, by this wall, 774 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,800 seeing Salvador Dali behind that post, 775 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,040 actually giving an autograph to a woman 776 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,440 at the doorway to the Museum Of Modern Art. 777 00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,800 She actually walks down the street here following Dali, 778 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,480 and shoots the second photograph 779 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,560 and she's caught him in this moment. 780 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,520 She dates the photograph 781 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,080 to the 24th of January, 1952, 782 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,360 and this is the time when there's the exhibition 783 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,280 Five French Photographers at the Museum Of Modern Art. 784 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,760 So I'm assuming that she crossed that doorway 785 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,120 and she went into the museum and she saw this exhibition. 786 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,000 She was teaching herself about photography, 787 00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,040 and it's now that Vivian made the switch to her trademark camera, 788 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:02,520 the Rolleiflex, 789 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,520 with its large square negative. 790 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,400 It's the first Rolleiflex picture I found 791 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,320 and it's taken on the 12th of July, 1952, 792 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,440 as she writes on the back of the print. 793 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,160 She's capturing the vivid contrast of the city. 794 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,320 She's found her subject matter. 795 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,120 In 1952, the hottest summer on record in New York, 796 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,880 Vivian is crossing the city with her new camera. 797 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,680 This is the Third Avenue train that she took up and down 798 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,120 and when it gets down below a certain point, it's the Bowery. 799 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,240 So by the time she leaves New York, the train has been dismantled. 800 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:02,360 Now, the Bowery is as gentrified as the rest of Manhattan, 801 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:05,640 but then, it was a byword for drunks and down and outs. 802 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,400 We're over by the Bowery bums, 803 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,520 where we have, like, people like this man, 804 00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,640 who has been beat up and he's asleep or he's unconscious in his cart, 805 00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:18,200 and men who are alcoholics and passed out on the sidewalk. 806 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,080 And this sunny summer day where she's here. 807 00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,480 And she's actually standing over there 808 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,960 taking a photograph of this man, who's looking down at her 809 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:29,960 because she's got her Rolleiflex at her waist. 810 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,320 He's looking at us, but he's looking into the lens in this picture. 811 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,440 She had to be about three feet away to get a close-up. 812 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,240 To go up and photograph a stranger on the street, 813 00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:51,880 you have to hold your ground and be fearless 814 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:56,080 and take what you want, because it's yours. 815 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,440 You could see that there was something that she was interested in, 816 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:07,480 that she was going to, drawn to, day after day. 817 00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,040 She would keep on working certain themes - the underdog, 818 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,200 the cast-aside, 819 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,240 the worker. 820 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,840 "You are too young to fall asleep forever. 821 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,720 "And when you sleep, you remind me of the dead." 822 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,920 She has the tools, and her work is really taking off 823 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,080 and so is she. 824 00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:41,480 She planned a whole year away, but she needed a new passport. 825 00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,320 So these images show how she kept her own archive 826 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,560 by photographing her own documents. 827 00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:59,320 This is the photograph of her 1959 passport application 828 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,000 that shows she's lied about her parents' death. 829 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,560 She checks that both of her parents are deceased. 830 00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,680 She checks... She checks that both of her parents are deceased 831 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,720 and, in fact, also eliminates her mother's name 832 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,680 from the application entirely. 833 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,120 'In fact, both her parents lived another ten years, 834 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,160 'but in 1959, they're dead to her. 835 00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,040 'She's cut loose.' 836 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,880 She actually lists all the places she's going. 837 00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,720 She's going to the Philippines, Hong Kong, Indochina, 838 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,600 Siam, East Indies, Malaysia - 839 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,120 and she did this tour. 840 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,360 She actually did this tour? She did this tour. 841 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,400 And did she take many photographs? She took thousands of photographs. 842 00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:45,640 So more than 50 years ago, 843 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,680 a single nanny sets off on a world tour. 844 00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:53,160 This is before motorways, before mass air travel, before gap years. 845 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,000 She fits in a second visit to her village in France 846 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,280 to pick up a cheque from her great-aunt's property. 847 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,320 This time, she also takes in Versailles and the Louvre. 848 00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,880 People make an issue of her being untaught, 849 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,720 but she was teaching herself. 850 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,080 Her visit to Paris coincides 851 00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:11,760 with that of the US President, 852 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,960 so she shoots that too. 853 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,440 She's like a reporter, 854 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,960 but with no newspaper, no outlet. 855 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,680 It's really about being alive to the world, 856 00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,600 out in the world, 857 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:07,320 and seeing yet another moment of...of consciousness 858 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:12,080 in which an awakened state is what it's all about. 859 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:16,160 That you are privileged to see that yet again, 860 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,760 this life is doing this for me. 861 01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,480 You're dealing with the disappearing moment. 862 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,160 It's there and it's gone, 863 01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:29,440 and the only way that...it's recognised as having happened 864 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,680 is you observing it, knowing it and photographing it. 865 01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:39,120 So you are the repository and, and I, I think that...you know, 866 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,600 it's great if you can make prints out of it and share this, 867 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,160 but, at a certain point, if you've done it long enough, 868 01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,360 you don't really, you don't really have to, 869 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,160 it's for you, it's just for you. 870 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,480 But maybe working alone with no audience 871 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,520 was too much of a strain in the end. 872 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,960 It seems the centre would not hold. 873 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:06,480 The world had opened up, 874 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,640 but by the late '60s, was closing in for Vivian. 875 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:22,560 The shelter she'd found 876 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,520 with the Ginsberg family in Chicago 877 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,160 came to an end. 878 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,240 It wasn't until all the Ginsberg boys went to college 879 01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:33,880 that finally Mrs Ginsberg said, 880 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,040 "Vivian, maybe it's time now for you to go on." 881 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,320 And breaking up was very hard for them and the family. 882 01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:48,280 The Ginsberg family very prominently said that she was like Mary Poppins. 883 01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,080 Almost all the other families that I've talked to 884 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:56,000 all say that Mary Poppins is about the last adjective...phrase 885 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,560 that they would use in talking about Vivian. 886 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:03,000 She did have her dark side and she had her light sides. 887 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:06,400 When she taught me, that was wonderful, 888 01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:07,840 that was just wonderful. 889 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:11,520 But, you know, 890 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,720 her emotions could get better of her sometimes, and so... 891 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,320 just leave her be. 892 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,320 Oh, you didn't want her to get angry with you, believe me. 893 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,360 Where there'd been pleasure, excitement, 894 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,400 increasingly there was disappointment and dread. 895 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,680 She witnessed the Chicago riots, in 1968. 896 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,480 Bobby Kennedy being assassinated, 897 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,440 the chaos that was going on in '68 898 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,880 and her photography, very much, you get that sense of it. 899 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:57,120 Her work after that, 900 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,280 she would go to the same places, she would go, 901 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:00,960 take the same kinds of walks, 902 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,760 but instead of noticing beautiful abstractions on the sidewalk 903 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,800 and beautiful light coming through trees, she'd start to see garbage. 904 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,840 When you see the weight of all these images, thousands of images, 905 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,400 just the mildewing, wet newspapers and garbage cans... 906 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,920 ..it, there's a weight to it and there's, there's a power to it 907 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:26,520 and I don't think you can deny that it somehow is linked to who she was. 908 01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,320 It was all bad news. 909 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,880 It was as if she was drowning, 910 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:36,400 as if she'd given up on people. 911 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,920 As the years passed, her jobs got shorter, 912 01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,360 her hoarding and secretive behaviour more extreme. 913 01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:08,320 It was a little bit of a mystery, what she did during the weekends, 914 01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,280 where she stayed. 915 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,360 She would, you know, take her belongings, her possessions, 916 01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:17,720 often bags...of clothes that she would, she would have, 917 01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,360 always with her camera, 918 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:23,000 and likewise, she would return sometimes with, you know, 919 01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,400 new bags and more clothing. 920 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,320 No work exists beyond the 1980s, 921 01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,440 but she was still carrying her camera, 922 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,680 still putting rolls of film 923 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,200 in her own personal bucket at Central Cameras, 924 01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:47,280 rolls she couldn't afford to collect. 925 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,080 That was her major difficulty 926 01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,520 in the last 15, 20 years - 927 01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,040 economics, not having enough economics. 928 01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,160 She couldn't afford all of the things that she wanted. 929 01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,880 Maybe more work will still emerge, 930 01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,480 but maybe she would have preferred if it didn't. 931 01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,040 I don't think she would like it at all, no. 932 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,520 There's too much going on, 933 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,440 too much delving into who she was or what she was 934 01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,080 and why was she this and so on, 935 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,080 and the trickle downs and the trickle ups and, hey, 936 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,800 I like taking pictures - that was her release, that was her world. 937 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,960 I didn't go to the shows to see the interpretation of other people 938 01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,680 of what they felt about her, cos I have my own feelings about her 939 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,240 and I respect the way she was. 940 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,160 Maybe I would have learned something, 941 01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:39,760 but would it have been the truth? 942 01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:43,240 It would have been someone else's interpretation of a truth. 943 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,680 Yet she's caught the imagination of a world 944 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,680 captivated with taking pictures incessantly on their phones. 945 01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:55,560 Vivian has gone viral. 946 01:05:57,240 --> 01:05:59,440 She now lives on the web, 947 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,760 but she lived in her imagination. 948 01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:06,280 Her compulsion to take pictures was her life. 949 01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,880 It's what she has left behind. 950 01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:15,400 Some of the pictures of Vivian's were from when I was a kid, 951 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,120 cos I was probably there, and I didn't even realise. 952 01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:23,160 I probably walked past her, 953 01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:24,840 but I never would have known. 954 01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:27,560 Can you contact them 955 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,160 and see what's happening with the main show in Shanghai? Yeah... 956 01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:35,160 'You see, our work isn't our work until it's shared, 957 01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:36,880 'somebody else has to see it.' 958 01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,160 She did have a very private life, 959 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,400 so I think she would not be very happy about that, 960 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,880 about people knowing about her. 961 01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:52,280 As her story dissipates, and our stories dissipate as they should, 962 01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:57,120 and the work remains, that's, I think she would be thrilled with it. 963 01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,240 In 200 years, if people are looking at her work, 964 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,520 I'd be absolutely delighted and I think she would be also. 965 01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,520 You know, at some point, I think I'm going to give some away, 966 01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,160 maybe one a week for a bunch of weeks and see what happens. 967 01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,800 Give them back to the streets, so to speak. 968 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,560 Look at all this, this is only one third of what I have. 969 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,040 There's three times this, 970 01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,720 so there's more than enough. 971 01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,600 There's people grabbing cameras right now, 972 01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:28,760 they're doing a lot of street photography because of Vivian. 973 01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:30,760 I can't give away the rabbits, 974 01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,400 that's my favourite. 975 01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:48,520 It must have been around 2007 or so, I was on my way to work 976 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,520 and I saw her walking down the street, 977 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,440 and I had a moment where I thought, 978 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,920 "Oh, should I...come over, 979 01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:58,400 "walk over and say hello?" 980 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,400 And I just didn't, I was running a little late and I just thought... 981 01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,680 So I stood there and I just kind of watched her walk, 982 01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,920 and I thought, "Wow! 983 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,880 "Vivian's still going strong, that is strange." 984 01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:20,720 Right at the end of her life, 985 01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:24,200 a neighbour caught sight of her round the rubbish bins. 986 01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,000 I first saw her in the neighbourhood 987 01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:28,480 in the alleys. 988 01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:32,560 She used to be carrying shopping bags, books. 989 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:34,480 I thought she was homeless. 990 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,520 When I swim, I started noticing her over here. 991 01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,440 She used to sit over here behind these trees, 992 01:08:44,440 --> 01:08:48,800 kind of a...I don't know, out of the way, she didn't really want, 993 01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,680 she didn't want to be bothered, I think she knew she was different. 994 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:55,920 She'd just be staring at the lake. 995 01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,440 I'd swim for a half hour out there and 996 01:09:00,440 --> 01:09:03,600 I'd look up and she would be gone.83182

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